Tuesday’s vote

The choice before us is No Brexit with a Withdrawal Agreement , or Brexit without a Withdrawal Agreement.

The Withdrawal Agreement is a very expensive lock up of the UK in the EU  in never ending talks, having thrown away our negotiating cards and our veto and votes.

“Simples” as the Prime Minister now says.

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122 Comments

  1. Alan Joyce
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    The choice before all conservative MP’s is Brexit without a Withdrawal Agreement or Electoral Oblivion.

    • Hope
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

      We read today that under the EU defence directive the U.K. is bound to award a Spanish company the contract to build auxiliary ships for U.K. Navy.

      If the UK leaves without Mays servitude plan the contract can be awarded to UK. firms, particularly Scottish. Why is this not highlighted by all those remainer MPs who want jobs for this country! Moreover, why is the SNP not shouting this from the roof tops and pressuring the government to give the contract to Scottish dockyards.

      JR, you still fail to state unequivocally why May has agreed the servitude plan with the EU? It is a terrible deal yet she and Hammond are now pressurising MPs to accept what sort of remain they want, even though hers has a false label. Her underhand behaviour used at every turn to create her servitude plan then underhandedly bounce her bad servitude plan through parliament. Please tell us her motives and why she has done this?

      Reply I have no idea why and I disagree with it

      • Hope
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

        JR, we read today that If May loses the vote she might cancel the votes on Tues/Wednesday and bring it back again! Is this correct?

        MPs need to realise we are governed by consent. If Brexit is thwarted or delayed with a view to thwart parliament serves no purpose to the people. The rule of law becomes void.

        Points in the US Declaration of Independence are valid here as well.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

        Well, Hope, as far as your last question is concerned I will offer the same kind of explanation that I first offered to JR last August but could not get published for some months:

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/18/a-letter-to-young-voters/#comment-974407

        “Meanwhile the woman from the CBI says that this is not a perfect deal but it would be far far worse to leave with no deal, so there would be rationing at ports and shortages and interruptions of supply chains etc etc; but the ideal of “frictionless trade” will be for the next stage, with a permanent customs union; the “backstop” is just a “technicality”; and she is thinking about real people in the country and their futures, etc etc.

        Well, if this deal is not a perfect deal from her point of view it is coming very close to that, as claimed in a CityAM article I first referenced months ago:

        Well, if this deal is not a perfect deal from her point of view it is coming very close to that, as claimed in a CityAM article I first referenced months ago:

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/16/how-not-to-negotiate-with-the-eu/#comment-966895

        “For the last two years, British industry’s focus has largely been on the UK government. The private sector, including the shipping industry, has taken to the airwaves to feed the media’s thirst for new Brexit opinion, and crammed into Whitehall meeting rooms to highlight threats – real or perceived – to their respective sectors.

        The Chequers deal is proof that the government has listened – it is as close to what we asked for as we were ever likely to get – and the Prime Minister has shown considerable fortitude in squaring the circles needed to deliver it. The rest of the government and all of Parliament now need to get behind it.”

        As for her idea that any deal is better than no deal, firstly I wonder how many of her CBI members go into negotiations thinking like that, and secondly of course leaving the EU without any new special or preferential trade deal would not mean that there was no deal at all on trade because the WTO treaties are not contingent on EU membership.”

        As for the largely fabricated problem of the Irish land border, that merely serves as a useful pretext for Theresa May to do what the CBI wants.

        • Original Richard
          Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

          It needs to be remembered that the CBI do not publish a list of members or from whom or where they receive their funding, although they do admit they receive some funding from the EU.

          So they may even be representing businesses or persons who have no manufacturing or warehousing or even offices in the UK.

      • Merlin
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

        I fear it is not so simple.

        We have remain.

        We have no deal.

        We have somewhere in between.

        The British people will be happy with none of these positions and what do we do then?

        • Steve
          Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

          Merlin

          “We have remain”

          64% of the country says otherwise.

          “We have no deal.”

          Actually that is what the British leave voting majority demand.

          “We have somewhere in between.”

          That one is for liberals, fence sitters and invertebrates, who thankfully are a minority.

        • rose
          Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

          44% now polling as wanting no deal.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

        May: Hände hoch

        Merkel: I do the talking, not you. Hände hoch

        May: how high

      • John Hatfield
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

        Every company in the UK trading within the single market is getting an extra unearned profit of 7.3 per cent from the long-suffering taxpayer. This explains why so many UK companies are complaining about leaving the single market. For years they have been quietly sucking a 7.3 per cent bonus from the public teat, and now see it being snatched away.
        May and Hammond work for these people not the electorate.

    • oldtimer
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

      Correct. The legal position is crystal clear and solidly based on the referendum result, a general election and legislation. MPs who wilfully subvert the law of the land also subvert the case for order too. I had always thought that the Conservative party was a party that believed in law and order. If they vote against no deal leave and for delay they will be in breach of the laws they have passed. They would no longer be able to claim to be the party of law and order. It will be instructive to see if the government imposes a 3 line whip to vote for a no deal motion – if it ever comes to that.

  2. Sue Doughty
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    Yes, it is simple. Sad but true. Conservative MPs have to vote for their country, not for their party this time. But make sure they all vote against not leaving with No Deal. Please?

    The details of the withdrawal bill have been mostly enacted by those it affects, all the little details like air traffic control and shipping is done. We can cope with No Deal better than with the deal on offer.
    At 11.05pm on 29th March 2019 the EU will suddenly come up with what is needed without the Irish thing.

    • Hope
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

      Good article by Steve Baker MP in the sun today. Have a read. Tory associations suggest to rid yourselves of Letwin, Hammond(s), May, Allen, Boles, Soubry, Wollaston etc. No matter what CCHQ tell you they cannot force you to canvass, campaign or raise funds for them. Make your resolution not to delay or take off no deal from the table. Better still leave on WTO terms then negotiate a trade deal under a different leader.

      What do you intend to do come May it is only two months away?

      • Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

        We voted for WTO deal in the referendum. It was specified in terms in th Governments £9 Million booklet delivered to every house.
        Parliament has no locus but to deliver that. The PM has had no mandate to negotiate a new E.U. Treaty! No PM ever will have!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

      The best think for the country, the party and the economy is the same thing. Leave on WTO terms and for T May, P Hammond and the rest to just resign.

      Replace with honest, pro-Brexit, democratic, real Conservatives please. Ones who believe in real UK democracy and less government.

  3. Mark B
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    If the Withdrawal Agreement has not significantly changed, in fact for me it would have to be totally rewritten, then why is Parliament voting on this ? It is like watching a dog returning to its own vomit. Let us please bury this and move on and start planning for our future.

    • Hope
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

      May was told to replace. She decided to ignore Parliament and ask for minor changes then diluted this further and asked for changes to arbitration!

      In November she promised legally binding changes when she pulled the vote. She has failed when she brought it back and got the worst defeat in history and now the same she has failed to ask let alone get any legally binding changes to date!

      • rose
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

        She also promised to change the negotiating team when they voted for the Brady Amendment. Then she didn’t.

  4. Gary C
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    “Simples”

    I do hope you’re right though I’m not convinced a proper Brexit as voted for by the majority will happen.

    Saying that I have a bottle of fine English sparkling wine ready to pop if we do leave without a deal.

    • Steve
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

      Gary C

      “I have a bottle of fine English sparkling wine ready to pop if we do leave without a deal.”

      Good !

      Although myself I honed to perfection all my gardening and logging tools. (Of course ready to keep a supply of firewood and to grow my own veg.)

  5. Chris
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

    A highly significant comment to the Letters in Sunday Telegraph quoting an unnamed civil servant writing for the S Times. It confirms what so many of us suspected:

    “On Brexit Central today there is a link to the Sunday Times article by a senior policy professional working in the civil service.

    “The four core values of the civil service are honesty, integrity, impartiality and objectivity. Before joining the organisation I had believed, naively, that these values would be upheld unconditionally. I very quickly came to learn that, in relation to Brexit, nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately, I must remain anonymous for fear of the backlash I would receive at my place of work. However, I can reveal that I am a senior policy professional within the civil service and work closely with numerous governmental departments.

    There are a number of extremely dangerous myths regarding civil servants that I must dispel because of the impact they are having on the Brexit process. The power and competence of our ministers is, I’m afraid, a facade. They are nothing more than a megaphone for the views of biased civil servants who lurk behind them in the shadows. I am a long-standing believer in and supporter of the “leave” campaign. Not so long ago we celebrated the 800th anniversary of Magna Carta. The UK has been built on the pillars of democracy and we have the greatest legal system in the world.

    It is absolutely shameful that while we remain in the EU our parliament is no longer sovereign, our Supreme Court is no longer supreme and our nation is no longer self-governing. To go against the will of the people expressed in the 2016 referendum would be the ultimate act of betrayal.”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/i-can-reveal-whitehalls-secret-brexit-plan-stop-it-dead-xm62nv8mc

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

      I’ve often thought that the Treasury officals think of as many way squeezing money out of people and Hammond & May (and previously Osborne & Cameron) just rubber stamp them. So many of them are attacks on the people who should be Conservative natural supporters (or potential supporters).

      For example raising National on the self employed, taxes on investment properties. Not to mention sugar taxes, and worst of raising probate fees.

    • margaret
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

      Thank you Chris for highlighting the underhand tactics which many of us suspect are continuing behind the scenes.

    • margaret howard
      Posted March 11, 2019 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

      Chris

      “The UK has been built on the pillars of democracy and we have the greatest legal system in the world”

      Really? Why then did he have to stay ‘anonymous’? Surely no proper democracy would deny him the right to speak out or threaten him with the loss of his livelihood for voicing his opinion?

      • Edward2
        Posted March 11, 2019 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

        Because being a rebel away from the majority line marks you out as non PC.
        A career can be ruined or frustrated.
        The pro remain elite establishment have power and control
        Go against them openly and the result can be disastrous.

  6. Fed up with the bull
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    Leave without a WA or else there will be trouble ahead. We voted leave and that’s what we expect and not this poor excuse for leaving which is actually staying in with worse terms than we had before. Are our MP’s mad or just stupid?

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

      “Simples” – A pair of meerkats would have made a better job of negotiations.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

        If not a Single Meerkat

        • Anonymous
          Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

          You need at least two to compare it with.

          • Steve
            Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

            Two meerkats, good idea!

            One up Tusk’s trouser leg the other up Barnier’s.

            That would be amusing.

  7. Duyfken
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

    Please tell my Ludlow MP.

    • Graham Wood
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

      Also, please tell my York Outer MP, Julian Sturdy, who still believes the myth that the WA will produce an “orderly withdrawal” when clearly it is a recipe for years of further strife and division (aside from the removal of his party as a political force in any coming GE)

      • rose
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

        And please tell all 4 Bristol MPs.

  8. Denis Goddard
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    It is critical that leave without a deal remains on the table. This means that the party must
    use the whip for the vote.

  9. matthu
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    The key thing to watch will be what proportion of Conservative MPs fail to vote against the WA.

  10. Helen Smith
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    I trust your judgement Sir John but I am now of the opinion that her deal should be voted down by such a huge margin that even she will get the message and go.

    Worse case scenario is we stay in the EU, and live to fight another day. For that to happen MPs of all parties will have to openly vote to stop Brexit instead of doing so covertly.

    Then at least we the voters will know who to trust and who to boot out.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

      Dear Helen–Given that she hasn’t gone already I don’t see her going after Tuesday either.

      • rose
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

        She just wants to be PM. She doesn’t want to achieve anything as PM and she won’t go.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

      Sadly, I think you are both right, where are the men in grey suits or white coats when you need them.

  11. James
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    M Barnier wants to separate NI from the UK. The Scots have a saying that could be used to give him an answer, “Send him homeward to think again”.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

      I remember Barnier making a speech to the Irish Parliament at the start of the Brexit process. He said that when Britain joined the Common Market in 1973 it was a bitter pill for him to swallow.

      He does not hide his hatred of Britain, but remainer politicians and journalists love love him

  12. Anonymous
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

    Well the people aren’t being told what WA means and several Leave papers are saying that you must back May.

    I wouldn’t mind betting a last minute concession from the EU and the WA goes through.

  13. Iain Gill
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

    Staggering that our political class are this bad.

    Keep saying it John!

  14. Gordon Burt
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

    I am sorry, but this is utterly and blatantly untrue. You may not like Mrs May’s withdrawal agreement, but it is unarguably Brexit. Under it, the UK leaves the EU on 29 March -simples. And that is the only thing that was on the ballot paper in 2016 – leave or remain. Mrs May’s deal means Leave. Not Leave as J Redwood would like, but the ballot paper did not invite us to vote for the version of Leave favoured by J Redwood. And many many leavers (Paterson, Hannan, Jonhson, Gove) made very clear they were happy with leaving on terms that kept us closely tied to the EU in future

    Reply Not so. We stay in for an indeterminate period to haggle more

  15. Richard1
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    There is no reason to vote for a bad deal,it’s a false choice being presented to Parliament. Either of WTO Brexit or even Remain would be better than Mrs May’s Brino.

  16. agricola
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

    Check my post under fighting fewer wars. It is a fit under this heading.

  17. Nicholas Murphy
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    These negotiations have been a shambles. The government has shown a lack of resolve and a distinct lack of negotiating skill. I gather that the AG has returned empty handed – so No Deal it must be. And I will be spoiling my ballot papers at every election until the UK is out of the EU. Simples!

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

      Just spoke to my Wife about the issue of voting or not ( she is an experienced Presiding Officer and she has participated in many counts). She says that spoiling voting papers is a waste of time because nobody at the counts cares! Spoilt papers are only checked if the vote is very close and a recount is likely. It would have a greater effect to not vote and contribute to a low turn out. If enough people abstained and therefore created an embarrassingly low turn out, politicians and others might start to take notice.

      • rose
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

        No-one took any notice when the Welsh referendum wasn’t properly representative. They voted the right way by a very narrow margin in a very low turnout so it was implemented without demur.

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

      If Conservative Party Associations are contemplating not canvassing at the local elections then, I think we should support them by boycotting the local elections ourselves and stay at Home.

    • Original Richard
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

      Not voting is just what the establishment would like to see. They don’t care how low is the turn-out as long as their candidate wins.

      So it is vitally important to show your willingness to vote by turning up at the polling station but then recording your dissatisfaction with all of the candidates offered. You should never remain silent and give the impression that you are either too lazy to vote or simply don’t care who wins the election.

      However, it is necessary to make your protest in the correct way for it to be taken as a protest vote as opposed to a mistake in completing the ballot paper. To do this, cross-out with a single line the line of vertically placed squares where a cross is expected to be placed to select a candidate and write a large “NONE” diagonally across all the candidates’ names.

      All such protest ballot papers are counted and recorded but they are not included in news reports and results unless the numbers make them significant and newsworthy.

      Notice would be taken if sufficient people took this action rather than simply refusing to vote.

  18. Nigl
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    And now we have the shameless Project Fear supporter and leading Remainer, Hammond offering us a bribe of £12 billion.

    No thank you. I will have the £39 billion we are giving away for nothing and our full annual contribution.

    Again he is taking us for mugs. We get £12 billion, we give away £39 and then probably umpteen billions annually with ratchet after that. Wow some deal!

    Strewth and to think he is supposedly on our side.

    • Ian wragg
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

      But they aren’t on our side. They are blatantly batting for Brussels.
      Hammond is a dyed in the wool socialist with his tax spend and waste policies.
      May is content with mass immigration right from her days as Home Secretary including selling off the Border Force boats.

  19. JoolsB
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Just watched you on Sky New John – well done – you were brilliant.

    I doubt this week will go well for leavers John. May’s surrender document must most certainly be voted down but then it seems the majority of MPs stupidly want to take no deal off the table and extend article 50. What on earth will an extension achieve especially once no deal is not an option except to allow the EU to give us an even worse deal if that’s possible. Time to walk away but unfortunately that will not happen under May. Tuesday night, she needs to be persuaded in no uncertain times to GO immediately and then we need someone who is committed to Brexit to step in but unfortunately for us, it seems Tory MPs have a death wish and will no doubt put someone equally useless like Rudd or Gove in her place instead

  20. Peter
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

    The Withdrawal Agreement still needs to be voted down. Again.

    After that, leavers can regroup. Removing recalcitrant MPs and forcing the PM out might then become one important objective.

    Whatever happens, the swamp still needs to be drained.

  21. piglet
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    You’ve got it in a nutshell, as I would prefer to say. Thank you, Sir John.

  22. miami.mode
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

    It would appear that Jeremy Hunt says it will be devastating for the Conservatives if Brexit doesn’t happen. He’s right.

    Mrs May should whip any No-Deal vote. At the very least she should go down fighting for what she has previously said.

    If a number of ministers wish to resign, then so be it.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

      What have Hammond, Rudd, Guake and co ever achieved in office?

    • Andy
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      He is right. It will be devastating for the Tories if Brexit does not happen. What he fails to mention is that it will be even more devastating for the Tories if Brexit does happen.

      Still I get to laugh at you all. A small plus.

      • Glenn Vaughan
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        “Still I get to laugh at you all. A small plus.”

        A small plus (?) for a very small man!

      • Steve
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        “Still I get to laugh at you all. ”

        If you lot get your way you’ll provoke an extreme right uprising, I don’t think you’ll be laughing then.

  23. Lifelogic
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Simples indeed. May’s deal is absolutely appalling (and not just the back stop), It is even worse than remain – was this May/Robbins and Hammond’s intention all along or were they just breathtakingly incompetent?

    We must say no to May’s expensive (£1,500 per household) straight jacket and leave on 29th March on WTO terms. Then we negotiation from a position of strength rather that tied into May’s vassal state & straight jacket. It is a shame that in an act of gross negligence May, Hammond and the government have totally failed to properly prepare for this but we will be fine despite this neglect.

    Ministers have also destroyed confidence in the UK with their project fear and being so incompetent that even Corbyn/McDonnall looks possible. Hammond’s promise of money for the police etc. only if we sign up to the deal is beneath contempt.

    Anything else will destroy the Conservative party. If there is an extension the real Brexit parties will destroy the Conservatives and Labour in any EU elections.

    I could never vote again for any Conservative (or indeed any) MP who supports May’s appalling deal in this vote or votes for a delay. They are clearly totally deluded, mad or anti-democratic traitors.

    May, Hammond Carney and the rest should all go and enjoy their richly undeserved gold plated pensions. Jeremy Hunt was very disapointing on Marr today too.

  24. Matt
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    Yeah I think you should leave now 29th without a deal..then regroup, have a rethink about where you’re at, maybe get a new PM and then see how you go because at this time the whole picture is much too cluttered and UK really needs some time out to get a sense of direction. It wouldn’t be so bad except the UK economy is so big that with the looming crash out all of its neighbours are also going to be badly affected. However with saying that we also realize and accept that it is your call. Matt Dublin

    • Jagman84
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

      There is ‘no crashing’ out on March 29th. Maybe for the likes of the Republic but more like ‘cashing in’ for the UK, as our financial liabilities to the EU mafia come to an end.

  25. Hope
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Just go to WTO. Leave March starts 16th March 2019.

    MPs must realise that if they thwart Brexit or delay then parliament serves no purpose to the people and the consent by which we are governed becomes void. There is no longer the rule of law.

    The US declaration of independence makes some good points on consent and how people are governed.

    • Andy
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

      Leave March – AKA mobility scooter convention.

      • Edward2
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

        Not just ageist but nowcee get bad taste jokes about disability too.
        You lefty remain fans are so non PC it is hilarious.

      • Steve
        Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

        Oh, so now it’s disabled people is it ?

        I’m disgusted.

  26. NickW
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

    Labour MPs need to remind themselves forcefully that legitimising a Parliamentary / |Governmental refusal to implement a Referendum result is no different to legitimising the refusal to implement an election result that the Establishment does not like.

    Any Labour MP who conspires to thwart Brexit is a Turkey voting for Christmas; a Labour Victory under the present leadership will not be allowed to happen.

    The EU is a calculated step towards a Global Government; a Global Government that will not be bothering about silly little things like elections.

    The media’s refusal to accept, and its open attempts to undermine, both the Referendum Result and the U.S. 2016 Presidential Election Result, have been done deliberately to pave the way towards totalitarian World Government.

    Our Parliament needs to defend the sanctity of the Ballot Box; not conspire in it’s destruction.

    • Mitchel
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

      Yes.Thank heavens for Russia and China-they’re going to blow that little scheme wide apart.

  27. Mick
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/10/brexit-john-mcdonnell-says-labour-must-focus-on-defeating-theresa-may-deal
    So you told the people in 2017 that you labour would up hold the referendum result just to gain votes and the abolition of student fees just to gain votes, now your saying that you want a custom union and stay in the single market what bloody part of leaving the Eu don’t these backstabbing morons understand , you might have conned a few in 2017 especially up north but with your track record on Brexit in the past 2years we won’t be conned again so start writing out your CV’s because your going to need it after the next GE because you’ve made yourself unelectable for a very long time hopefully

  28. Russ
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

    Come on Conservative Party, do the right thing now and get us out with a clean break and all is forgiven, nearly.

    • rose
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

      I would forgive them if they got us out without a ransom or an agreement.

  29. Russ
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

    I watched TMs speech and did not like her addressing all the MSM journalists by friendly first name in American style. It must be flattering to be on first name terms with the PM. I would like to see some Citizen journalists and Youtubers and just regular people ask her questions not just dumbed down MSM puppets.

    • rose
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

      She wouldn’t ask them. She always starts with “Laura” and then goes down the same old list.

  30. Caterpillar
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    First sentence reads like a referendum question, I vote for the second option.

  31. ian
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

    If you wanted MPs to vote for the WA, you would have done a better job of it from the beginning. It is a worthless agreement that has kept her in office, without it she could have been voted out by remain supporters, who would have been looking at no deal only on the table.

    Mrs T May hasn’t even got the front to sign it off in Brussels herself before MPs vote on it and she has already voted against the WA herself. The EU commission could not have drawn up worst WA with her permission if they had tried.

    Only remain, supporters, want an extension to the WA to try for a second ref or try to remain in the EU customs union. There is no such thing as no deal, it just better to deal with the EU commission from outside than from inside the EU, whichever way they choose to negotiate, they will go on for years, fail to see how you can properly negotiation with them while still inside the EU, as Mr Cox has now found out.

  32. Bryan Harris
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

    Simple, YES – so why are they making such problem of it?

    ….don’t get me started on that or you will be deleting another post.

  33. Halfway
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

    What do we need HoC votes for..just leave..the people voted to leave so just leave

  34. Davek
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    When i think of the mouthpieces for ERG..mark Francois J R-M etc then Farage et al..the one word that comes to mind is ‘incorrigible’..brainwashed by years of the English education system. All that with the constant barrage of anti EU bile from the gutter press pumped out over thirty years or more..so then go ahead with your bluster just leave..leave without a deal..look at things from outside look see if El dorado is there or if it can be conjured up..but I don’t think so..idiocy

    • rose
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

      We aren’t going for El dorado. We are hoping to get back the independence we had for a thousand years, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse.

    • Posted March 10, 2019 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

      At least the people you vilify have talked to us. I have never heard anyone from the EU attempting to explain what they believe in or what they are trying to do.

  35. mancunius
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    It must be the first time that any PM has negotiated with a foreign power, with the concealed intention of letting them win not only the upper hand, but permanent control of our country.

    And surely the only time so many MPs have consistently voted to tie the hands of all their successors by locking us to an abusive foreign power for ever, with no possible exit.

    Even under Blair, I have never despised any parliament with such a deep degree of loathing as this one.

    • hardlymatters
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

      I think you are losing it mancunius, nobody can hold us in permanent control forever as you put it. There is no big bad foreign power out there only the little pussycat EU that is not even a country only a club.

      So just like Ian Smith in Rhodesia of old we can declare UDI anytime we like. We can declare independence from anyone anytime we like and who’s going to stop us. We can secede from any economic bloc in the world any time we like. So let’s not get carried away

      • graham1946
        Posted March 11, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

        It won’t be the EU which holds us permanently in control but our own political elite who are all so subservient to it as has been proven over the last 40 odd years. You have seen the vitriol poured on Leavers – these people are fanatics and bigots.

        The referendum was a miscalculation by Cameron who thought Remain was in the bag and it would end the 40 year squabbles of the Tories. If we don’t get out now, it will never be repeated again. The EU may be in your opinion be just a club, but that is not its final destination.

    • James
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

      Too much corporatism under Mr Cameron. Too much socialism under Mrs May. Perhaps we ought to try capitalism once again. As regards Mrs May’s negotiating prowess with her European counterparts, she is clearly in a hole of her own making. She should fire her current remainer advisers, and start listening rather more to brexiters. She would be well advised to disregard anything emanating from the so-called Independent Group, who’s only common link appears to be a belief in even bigger government, but with them running things instead of the present incumbents.

    • Fed up with the bull
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

      Mancunius, I think you speak for many of us.

  36. Martin Conboy
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Sir John,
    Given the eurofanatic majority in the HoC it is probable that Brexit will be betrayed this week. The Withdrawal Agreement is not Brexit, it is effectively Remain as a non-voting member, although it will probably be voted down.
    What happens next will determine the fate of the Conservative party. There will be a horrible electoral price to be paid for the betrayal of Brexit. If TM facilitates the betrayal by calling a Free Vote on No Deal in full knowledge of the likely outcome then the Conservative party is over. Jeremy Corbyn will not believe his luck, as his problems with Labour pro-leave constituencies are solved for him and he can truthfully justify himself and blame the Conservatives for it.
    It is therefore vital that TM whips for No Deal. This will force Labour to betray its pro-leave constituents, and it will force the eurofanatic Conservatives to resign and vote with the opposition. TM will lose the vote for No Deal with honour intact. A three month extension of Article 50 is then likely and we can use the time to hold a GE.

  37. A.Sedgwick
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Many MPs’ cards will be marked by their constituents, clearly some Remoaners do not want re-selection, some are in denial about democracy and others will do the right thing by the Referendum result, manifestos and Acts passed to see our exit 29/3/2019 regardless.

  38. Andy
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    It is simple.

    Vote for Brexit reality – Mrs May’s deal.

    Or do what is right for the country, end the farce and lock up the perpetrators.

    • Edward2
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

      Dave Spart speaks !

    • Anonymous
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

      Lock up people who disagree with the EU.

      Nuff said.

    • Original Richard
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

      “Or do what is right for the country, end the farce and lock up the perpetrators.”

      What all 17.4m of them ?

  39. Edwardm
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

    Yes it is that simple.

    MPs who want Mrs May’s vassalage agreement and for us to pay for it are in the wrong job.

  40. Roy Grainger
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

    Hammond says if the WA passes he’ll release money to deal with knife crime, the implication being if the WA is voted down he won’t. He really is contemptible. Whatever happens I doubt I’ll be voting Conservative again while the likes of him are in the government.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

      RG, Hammond’s bribe/blackmail approach to fiscal policy is indeed another reason Mrs May should sack him immediately, it is shockingly distasteful behaviour. She will of course do nothing; she is happy with the culture of bungs.

  41. VotedOut
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    We are told that the executive will promise £20 billion spending bonanza on Wednesday only if MPs pass the Withdrawl Bill. (see Daily Mail)

    If true, has anyone in CCHQ thought about how this looks to the electorate?

    So, the executive is happy to see London’s stabbing and murder rate climb unless and until MPs vote a particular way on an unrelated issue.

    Just where is the competent government in all this?

    Is it any wonder then that 75% of people in a recent poll said Brexit had been handle badly – I’m amazed its that low!

  42. Dominic
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    The domination of an immoral, corrupt, vile political class is but a vote away. If May, her lackeys and the EU succeed in their plan to keep us tied we may as well dismantle our democracy and embrace authoritarian rule

  43. William Long
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    It is, as you say, simplicity itself, but unfortunately ‘Simples’ is anathema to all Civil Servants, all Eurocrats, many members of the present House of Commons and more still in the upper house. They like to show how clever they are by dealing with every complication they can possibly think of, and the bigger the organisation they can be part of, the more important they feel. That is why the Remainers, lead by May and Hammond will do all they can to keep us tied to the EU. They see nothing to be gained by independence and have no wish to be part of a sovereign nation.

  44. Denis Cooper
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    I’m not sure there is much point writing to a local paper which will not come out until next Thursday, nevertheless I have just sent this to the Maidenhead Advertiser:

    “Dear Sir

    In 2017 the German government asked the well regarded Munich based Ifo institute to assess the economic consequences of the UK’s departure from the EU under a variety of scenarios.

    Part of the answer was that if the UK left without any special trade deal, defaulting to WTO terms, then over the long term we could suffer an erosion of economic growth of up to 1.7% of GDP.

    Now Ifo has published a study of the likely effects on 44 different countries around the world, and this time the worst case damage to the UK economy could be equivalent to 2.8% of GDP.

    However of all the countries considered the Irish Republic was found to be the worst affected by a long chalk, with a GDP loss of up to 8.2%.

    It may be noticed that the UK government has managed to promote exactly the opposite view, that it would be the UK which suffered that high level of economic damage, “catastrophic” we are told, while all other EU countries would be only lightly touched.

    But then with a population which generally has a more favourable attitude towards the EU project the German government may not feel the same need to lie as the UK government.

    That potential 8% economic hit is why the Irish government has been busy making a mountain out of a molehill on the Irish border, which Theresa May uses as a pretext to meet some of the demands of the CBI.

    And also why the Tory MP Marcus Fysh was told by the Irish delegation in Brussels that they will never agree to any replacement of the ‘backstop’ which does not involve a customs union.

    Yours etc”

  45. Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    Sir John Mrs May certainly thinks we are all ‘simples’ – she thinks by declaring that black is white we will all happily swallow the black, hook line and sinker.
    It is truly revealing that the Remain ‘elite’ hold us in such contempt.
    I was informed by a German today that Brexit would be delayed and then reversed ‘because nobody would vote again for Brexit … and then ‘we would all be back to normal’…
    Time for some serious lessons!

  46. George Brooks
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

    No one in their right mind can honestly vote for the WA because it locks us into endless and fruitless talks which will put us back into the EU in a worst position than before we voted to leave.

    MPs can vote for the WA ‘dishonestly’ to show their total disregard for this country and it’s future and their complete lack of vision of the opportunities that are waiting for us as soon as we are free of the EU.

    Then there is the hard core of Remainers and Civil servants that can’t run anything and because of their complete lack of experience are terrified of a ‘No deal’ Brexit. Their concerns are founded in ignorance and lack of experience in industry and commerce but completely misplaced.

    The commercial world thrives on profit and although the first few weeks will be a little bumpy (exaggerated by the media) the drive to succeed and make a profit will kick in to all commercial organisations both in the EU and the UK and trade will return quickly and smoothly

    The EU still has a few days to amend the WA and they know exactly what has to be deleted. If they cannot be reasonable then we MUST come out on 29th March as Article 50 states

    • Sameold
      Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

      Too late to amend anything now because parliament would not have time to scrutinise and consider so it looks like we should just leave 29th as the peaple and parliament already voted..so just who gave government a mandate to negotiate anything else with them on our behalf? nobody.. That woman has really to go..what she’s at is wholly undemocratic..giving us a choice between B and C..when we the people voted in referendum for A

  47. Freeborn John
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    What chance May can be forced out after losing this vote. Hope you are dusting off that grey suit and planning to pay her a visit. She has been an unmitigated calamity and disaster.

  48. hardlymatters
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    Don’t know why you parliamentarians are voting again. This matter is already settled – the people voted June 2016

  49. Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

    Sir John I have always understood that the same proposition cannot be put to Parliament twice. How is it possible for May to propose her ‘deal’ again? Is it because these are ‘meaningless votes’ – motions?

  50. Edmund
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    MPs should come to some Agreement to Withdraw Theresa May from power.

    • Steve
      Posted March 11, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      Edmund

      Difficult to see how, since she survived a vote of no confidence. Theoretically she’s untouchable.

      I’m not an expert on these things, but perhaps they would have to ask Her Majesty the Queen to remove her ? Possibly on the basis of national security risk.

      • Edmund
        Posted March 11, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

        Steve

        Whereas MPs are unable to re-activate the no confidence vote for so long, enough of them maintaining an attitude of non-cooperation or criticism might in itself sap her own obstructive power. Tactical absence or abstinence might be useful. A PM with 20% of colleagues disregarding his or her authority, value or even presence may realise it is time for someone better to lead.

  51. adam
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

    “While most of our pages are available in a version of latimes.com created for European Union users, some are currently unavailable. We are engaged on the issue and committed to identifying technical compliance solutions to this problem. Thanks for your interest in the Los Angeles Times.”

    hopefully this problem will be solved when we leave

    • Caterpillar
      Posted March 11, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      You might have to try a VPN to read some things from outside the EU, accessing news from outside the EU has become a bit like having to use a VPN when in China.

  52. M Davis
    Posted March 10, 2019 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

    Words fail me! Apart from, never, ever again! This Socialist/Liberal, Conservative Government are an absolute disgrace! What on earth is Hammond thinking of in bribing people to get his own way? They will pay at the next General Election.

    • Steve
      Posted March 11, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

      M Davis

      “What on earth is Hammond thinking of in bribing people to get his own way?”

      That is what despots do.

      “They will pay at the next General Election.”

      If they don’t take us out on no deal / WTO on 29th, a general election will be the least of their worries.

      “This Socialist/Liberal, Conservative Government are an absolute disgrace!”

      It’s all of them to be honest, total bunch of shysters. But as you infer; the next general election will be interesting, like no other. I’d be surprised if any of them attend polling stations. I’d also be surprised if anyone is stupid enough to vote after this.

  53. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted March 11, 2019 at 12:59 am | Permalink

    So the draft Withdrawal Agreement must be voted down for a second time. Agreed, but you need to follow the argument where it leads. If this rotten parliament votes to extend Article 50, we must get to a position where a broad church Brexit Party is willing to fight the next general election. The Conservative Party as you have known it will be as dead as the dodo.

  54. Alastair Harris
    Posted March 11, 2019 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Interesting to see the EUs thoughts on what it might charge for an extension. Given the numbers being bandied about it can hardly be called a “free” vote!

  55. Steve
    Posted March 11, 2019 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    It’s now being reported that Theresa May has not secured anything from the ungrateful EU.

    How she thinks the WA will have a chance of getting through is a mystery to me.

    An even bigger mystery lies in the fact that the people won’t let the the remainers get away with it.

    • Steve
      Posted March 11, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      An even bigger mystery lies in the fact that the people won’t let the the remainers get away with it but remainers seem to think they’re unaccountable.

    • villaking
      Posted March 11, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

      “An ungrateful EU”? What has the EU to be grateful for? The UK has chosen to leave and has requested to leave in an orderly manner. The EU has spent two years negotiating that with us. The EU has very reasonably asked that we settle the financial commitments that we had already made, pay for a transition period if that’s what we want, respect the EU’s greatest economic asset, the Single Market, protect the rights of EU citizens living in the UK and preserve the integrity of the Good Friday Agreement. Hardly controversial demands. Remember it is the UK that is leaving, not the EU ejecting us. The EU does not have a debt of gratitude to us (although I expect some will be pleased to see the back of a troublesome member and will certainly be glad that Mr Farage will no longer be speaking in Parliament).

  56. Simon Crute
    Posted March 11, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    What I don’t understand with any of this is this.
    The EU and Ireland were quite happy with a treety that allowed us to exit with 2 years notice, and impose a hard border in betwen the Republic and Ireland and Northern Ireland. They were quite happy that nobody expected us ever to do this, and if we did there would be serious political concequences.

    So, why can’t the add a unilaterla exit method of the ‘backstop’, allowing us to temrinate it with 2 years notice as we could now. They would be in exactly the same position as they were 2 years ago, and indeed a better position than they are now..

  57. villaking
    Posted March 11, 2019 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    Sir John,

    You consider the WA to be “expensive” (I agree), but I wonder if your various economic models properly represent how expensive your own preferred version of leaving would also be. The potential cost is unknown to much of the British public because we are not subject matter experts. The ERG is however, so does it factor in the loss of tax revenues (1% reduction apparently) as banks move assets out of the UK with the loss of passporting rights (£800 billion moved so far I hear)? Or the costs already incurred by extending the civil service payroll due to Brexit (£1-£2 billion a year)? And whilst your models allow for import substitution effects, how realistic are the assumptions? For example, we import most of our fish but would we really substitute those imports for our own domestic catches of fish less popular with UK consumers. Can we really afford Brexit?

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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