An evenly split Commons

Yesterday the Commons by a majority of one on the Speakers casting vote rejected the idea that we need another day of indicative votes . The last time we did this   we were only offered Remain options and rejected them all .

Then it voted by a majority of one to approve a bill requiring the government to ask for an unspecified delay in Brexit. In so doing the Commons showed its contempt for the referendum and for the  clear feeling in the country  that they want Brexit over. Parliament and the EU has wasted three years  now from the decision. They tell us they have prepared for a no deal exit. It is time  to just get on with it.

There is no good reason for a delay. There is no obvious compromise between Leave and Remain. For 47 years we have lived with Remain with nothing offered to us who wanted out. You are either in or out. Many successful countries who trade a lot with the EU are out.

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381 Comments

  1. Stephen Priest
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:05 am | Permalink

    Brexit Party leads Doncaster General Election poll –

    1 Brexit Party 28%
    2 Labour 27%
    3 UKIP 18%

    From Doncaster Free Press

    by the way Conservative 5th behind “none of the them” which is 4th

    • oldtimer
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:22 am | Permalink

      A straw in the wind. If we are required to vote in the EU elections I will vote for the Brexit party.

      • Roy Grainger
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:58 am | Permalink

        All Leavers will vote for them (or UKIP) in EU elections – it is a “free hit” because Euro MPs don’t do anything significant at all so there is no downside in voting for them. This is why the EU don’t want us involved in EU elections, more populists in their Parliament. However, a serious question, why is May so desperate not to have Euro elections ? As a means of sending a message to the EU it would bolster our negotiating position (if we had one of course). I assume as always with May she judges it would undermine her own personal position as PM.

      • HardyB
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:13 am | Permalink

        Only two ways we will ever be required to vote in EU elections

        1/ if we go and live in another EU country, or

        2/ If we revokes A50 – highly unlikely

        The EU is not going to give a long extension because it would be too disruptive to their business, elections etc- besides seventy UKIP types sitting in the EU parliament for the next how many years would be too much – as far as they would see it – so relax – out we will go 12th

        • Caterpillar
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

          HardyB, but we will be out with the WA and the political declaration changed for Labour and even more EU liking. Without a confirmatory ballot of WA vs no deal, or an extension that forced us to vote in the European elections there will be no democratic way to show what we think. May, Corbyn and the EU will not allow a voice.

          • Rien Huizer
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

            @ Caterpollar

            You are one of thos epeople who claim that a second (or nth) referendum is undemocratic. Do you believe that once winning narrowly means you “own” an outcome? Why then not have MPs who sit for life and whose election cannot ne recontested?

          • Edward2
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

            Because the question in this second referendum will be two choices and both will be remain.
            You know that is what you want Rien

          • NickC
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

            Rien, Because when the “wrong” MP is elected, we don’t immediately have another election to change the outcome to suit you.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

        +1

      • Chris Dark
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:08 am | Permalink

        In Eu elections voting for Brexit party and UKIP might be viewed as ok, but if Farage’s party were to run against UKIP in a British GE then it would split the Leave voters and dilute the threat to the establishment. Personally I wouldn’t support him at all, I think while he is a Leaver, he is also interested in Nigel Farage’s career. He and Batten need to work together, not against each other.

        • JoolsB
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 4:40 am | Permalink

          We must not vote for betrayers just because we fear a vote for the Brexit party or UKIP will split the Tory vote. They will take votes away from Labour as well. Don’t agree Farage is only thinking of his career although you can say that about most politicians. He had resigned hoping his work of getting us out of the EU was done. His only reason for forming the Brexit party is because of the complete and utter treachery of MPs.

      • Merlin
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

        I am mindful of the warning today about incitement on both sides and that we need to watch or language about using words like ‘betrayal’, ‘traitor’ and so forth.

        We all want the same things, but nobody wants public unrest. I think it is important that both sides continue to be polite to each other.

        So, in the spirit of camaraderie, I wish everyone a good morning and hope none of us get too wound up about all these Brexit shenanigans.

        • Merlin
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

          Also, presumably everyone should be thanking Remain MPs for voting down Common Market 2.0.

          Strange how Remainers and Brexiteers are coming together.

          • Hope
            Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:07 am | Permalink

            A general election is required not a rigged second vote to remain. Let the public decide on their MPs voting on Brexit.

            The vote was won yesterday by a Labour convicted criminal wearing a leg tag! You could not make it up. The swamp is so bad it would not be believed around the world!

            Bear in mind Letwin and Clarke do not intend to stand. So there must be consequences for them as well.

          • Jagman84
            Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

            It is only happening in Parliament and by a select few of, yes, traitors. In 2016, the House of Commons had an instruction from the electorate and many have chosen it ignore it. Then, to cap it all, May tries to foist the WA on us so it is worse than what we had. I use ‘had’, seeing as Remainers do not seem to understand that the remain we had is no longer available. Indeed, the binding Merkel punishment Withdrawal Treaty will be the future for all the EU 27 in a couple of years time. If Remainer MPs do not wish for such a future, and it has been rejected 3 times so far, they need to vote down Mrs Balls’ sellout of the UK and support a no deal exit, ASAP.

        • Stephen Priest
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:21 am | Permalink

          In 1940 Winston Churchill rode into town and saved the nation.

          In 1979 Margaret Thatcher rode into town and saved the nation.

          In 2019, in my 40 year cycle, we are due another great leader to save our nation.

        • a-tracy
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:39 am | Permalink

          Merlin, I agree incendiary language is not a good thing. However, if we feel ‘betrayed’ what is wrong with that word? Betray = let down, break your word or promise.

          Also, where did this use of language start – with Juncker in The Times May 2016 he “told Le Monde that Britain after Brexit would not “be handled gently” he was reported to have said “Brexit must be a form of punishment for deserters”.

          Barnier reported in Le Point said “J’aurais réussi ma mission si, à la fin, le deal est tellement dur pour les Britanniques qu’ils préféront rester dans l’Union.”In English translated by D Hannan: “I’ll have done my job if, in the end, the deal is so tough on the British that they’d prefer to stay in the EU”.

        • Anonymous
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

          Sorry.

          We are being provoked and tested severely, Merlin.

          In order to dehumanise us and nullify our votes all sorts of insinuations can be made by Remain about our integrity as regards honesty and racism and they do so without us being given fair trial or jury – yet we have to tip-toe around the subject of a Remain MP with a tag on her ankle.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

          No one wants to see any political unrest. But if MPs (plus civil servants and of course the dire BBC) betray, cheat, clearly act as traitors & quislings, undercut the negotiations at every turn, run the county down with project fear, suggest we have another referendum without even leave on the paper (May’s Remain deal or just Remain) ….. then what should we call them? What legal actions can the 17.4 million take to ensure democracy is respected?

          If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck ! I shall continue to call them traitors and quislings. This as they very clearly are this and nearly everyone in the country can see this quite clearly.

        • David Price
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

          Perhaps if you hadn’t hijacked another comment just so you could post an off-topic vent at the top of the list your “mindfulness” might be taken more seriously.

          As it stands there has been far too much suppression, abuse, insult and slander of leavers for things to be “polite” in the face of the machinations going on in government and parliament.

          • Merlin
            Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

            I would argue that the conversation occasionally needs to be a little more wide-ranging than this Brexiteer-Remainer stuff, which can be a little tiresome. And I’m not alone in my hijacking of comment boxes.

        • oldtimer
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

          How come voting for the Brexit party is inciting people?

        • sm
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

          Merlin, I don’t see how you can say that ‘we all want the same things’.

          Some regular posters to this site are so ardently Remain inclined that many lose control of any rudimentary courtesy, while a great many of us are livid with rage at what we perceive to be a vile betrayal by a Government and Prime Minister who has brought shame on the UK, let alone the Conservative Party.

        • Edward2
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

          Good morning to you too Merlin.
          I appreciate your decency and willingness to debate this important issue.

        • NickC
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

          Merlin, The English word “traitor” applies to those who betray their own country to a foreign power. You cannot get round it.

          Moreover, you know as well as I do that if the Referendum result had been 52% Remain there would be absolutely no question of a “compromise” where the UK half left the EU.

        • Steve
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

          Merlin

          “we need to watch or language about using words like ‘betrayal’, ‘traitor’ and so forth.”

          Speak for yourself. As far as I’m concerned those words are perfectly legitimate for use given the current circumstances.

          “…..nobody wants public unrest.”

          Well it’s coming, and it will have been caused by the remainers.

      • roger
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

        As will I without doubt or hesitation.

        • Hope
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

          Merlin some MPs have betrayed the public vote and their own word. Some are traitors by definition, Look the word up!

          • Lifelogic
            Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

            Indeed it is entirely the correct word for about 2/3 of the current generally dire MPs, 95% of the cabinet, most of the civil service and 95 % of the BBC staff.

    • Mark B
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:26 am | Permalink

      Good news. At last !

    • DaveM
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:28 am | Permalink

      Even though my local MP is one of the “good ones”, there’s no way I can vote for her until May’s replaced with a proper pro-British conservative. Waiting to see whether UKIP or the Brexit party field candidates in Locals.

      • Stred
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:33 am | Permalink

        The contributions website is now working well. I joined yesterday. They will be denied an opportunity to put up MEP candidates but will have GE candidates.

      • Timaction
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        Same. It’s Brexit Parties or none of the above. Like the majority outside London, enough is enough.

        • Iain Gill
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

          yep, I just hope the multitude of brexit parties dont split the pro brexit vote

      • Anonymous
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

        Ditto I’m afraid.

        Logic is telling me I should vote for an ERG member but May as leader is making it really difficult.

        I just want to punish the Tory party. It’s all consuming. Tory MPs need to be aware of the feelings out here.

        • Tad Davison
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

          It’s always a shame when the innocent get published for the guilty. That’s a miscarriage of justice and I do not condone it. By all means let’s vote out the rubbish but keep the good ones.

          • Tad Davison
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

            (Apologies for spelling mistakes, but sometimes my smartphone font gets so ridiculously small, it’s difficult to check the wording properly before posting, and predictive text doesn’t help).

        • Richard
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

          The ERG are brave men & women who have been subjected to personalised Project Fear campaigns – as our host described.

          Your ERG MP has proved that he respects democracy & manifesto commitments. He/she has fully earned your vote.

        • Steve
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

          Anonymous

          “Tory MPs need to be aware of the feelings out here.”

          The remainers think it’s anger, and that they’ll get away with selling the country down the river.

          Anger doesn’t even touch the sides, as they will surely find out to their cost.

      • Andy M
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

        My MP is a good one and pro-Brexit although he did cave and vote WA third time around. However I too will not vote conservative at the next GE. They, the Tories, put a remainer in charge and, in my view, tried, under her duplicity, to reverse the idea of leaving the EU. Thus I hold the Conservative Party collectively responsible. A new party is needed which believes in an independent Britain. While we are about it lets create a movement that backs a low tax-low spend economy, reduces red tape as Trump has done in the States, and rolls back the PC agenda on everything from sexuality to that religion.

      • a-tracy
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        No, Dave, you must always vote for good Conservatives.

        • Hope
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

          No Dave is correct. Evil survives when good men stand silent. They knew what May was up to and must face the consequences. Even now they let may continue, putting party before the nation.

          Hammond openly saying Mays servitude plan or remain is credible to put to the people! Remember Barnier said must make it so bad the UK decides to remain. Hammond is on the same song sheet.

        • DaveM
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:03 am | Permalink

          It’s not a GE yet…..

        • Lifelogic
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

          Should one vote for ERG members who actually in the end caved in to May’s threats and voted for her appalling deal? Or just the sound ones?

          • Sir Joe Soap
            Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

            Even the sound ones, by then, will have had the opportunity to quit the Tories. We can’t take the risk again of voting for sound people in lousy parties. That boat already sailed and sunk.

        • Roy Grainger
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

          You are wrong. Good Conservative MPs are currently in a minority and are impotent, it is a wasted vote to return them. Vote for a Brexit party that has a Brexit leader and a Brexit manifesto.

        • mancunius
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

          On the other hand, good Conservative MPs should note that their party, its leadership and its polices are always hijacked by europhiles, largely because of the Conservative Party’s reliance for its funding on europhile CBI and big business interests, and on wealthy landowners who are addicted to EU subsidies.

          As Dame Edna would say, ‘Sorry, but it really is!

        • Julian Flood
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

          If you can find one….

          JF
          With apologies to our host….

      • NickC
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

        DaveM, UKIP is fielding candidates throughout the UK for the May local elections. The Brexit Party is not fielding candidates.

    • Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:11 am | Permalink

      Brexit Party and UKIP must not split the vote. We need a brand new vehicle with all the Leavers on board, else we give Remain the victory!

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

        There needs to be an agreement not to stand against each other. According to Sir John Curtice, the big parties are already leaking support to Brexit parties. Just as long as May and all other remainers are wiped out, I’ll be happy!

    • David Price
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

      I’ve just received an email from Alan Mabbutt asking I deliver leaflets, make calls, knock on doors in support of local council elections. At the bottom of the email I am told if I don’t want the receive any more messages from “Theresa May and the Conservatives” I can unsubscribe. I have helped in a very small way during a past council election and the referendum but I am too disgusted at the actions of the party leadership and a number of MPs to do so again.

      My reply was;

      “I will not lift a finger to help the party while it has Theresa May as it’s leader, is following it’s anti-Brexit course in government and parliament and collaborating with the likes of Jeremy Corbyn.

      Sincerely …”

      I do not expect any reply.

      • David Price
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

        Actually, I did get a reply from the “Reply-To” address – “this mailbox is not monitored” Clearly the party leadership do not wish to listen.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

        As with those begging e mails from Brandon Lewis, you have to find the man’s actual e mail address and send to him there. Frankly, this one didn t even deserve that. They really live in another world.

    • Julie Dyson
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:03 am | Permalink

      Quite an achievement for “one man and his website”, which is testament both to the fury and the disillusionment across much of the country — and to Nigel Farage’s appeal as a potential saviour. Love him or hate him he has charisma, conviction, considerable doggedness, and the ability to carry millions along with him. Previously hampered by the fact that those millions are spread across the country (unlike, say, the quite popular SNP leader) few if any other political figures in this country can, or have ever been able to claim, anywhere near the same level of personal appeal and mass support.

      I must admit I do think that Farage and the genuine Brexiteer MPs combined in a single party would make the next GE a landslide victory. Pity it’s unlikely to happen unless the Tory Brexiteers realise their party is doomed thanks to May and the hard Remainers.

      A growing number of the electorate now identify as Leavers or Remainers before Conservative or Labour (or whatever). Perhaps it’s about time that our politicians did, too.

    • William1995
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

      I will likely be voting for the Brexit Party in local elections. Hypothetically if there is a snap general election with May /Hammond/Rudd etc as leader I will be very tempted to shift my vote there as well (assuming they don’t start coming out with absurd policies etc). Would be a tough call though, we don’t want to accidentally let in a Marxist government. But I think the Conservatives’ and Labour’s handling of Brexit may be enough to beat party politics and enough votes might be taken from each party.

      • NickC
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

        William, The Brexit Party are not standing at the local elections on 2 May.

    • Nicholas Murphy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:28 am | Permalink

      Interesting. A timely reminder to Labour that they too are flirting with electoral disaster. What does this mean for our next general election manifesto, if we are in a customs union with the EU? That we should include a commitment to leave it.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

      We could run these figures past Mrs May, but it won’t do any good, she is living in her own little imaginary world and thinks she has the support of the nation.

      The rest of the Tory hierarchy ought to be made aware though. The remainers keep doing incalculable damage to the party, then blaming it on everybody else.

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      Hopefully The Brexit Party will have enough candidates ready to win the next general election, which looks inevitable.

      One thing for sure Letwin and the rest have destroyed the Conservative Party, political nonentities have staked their claim in history – job done.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      The Conservative leadership must be aware of the collapse in polling for the Conservatives ( I have informed my local Conservative party that I will not vote for Claire Perry while she remains their candidate) but we still get Hammond on Peston promoting the idea of a second referendum, yet he not only keeps the Conservative whip, he stays as Chancellor.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      Brilliant! UKIP and the Brexit Party splitting the vote! You wait centuries for a party to come along and break the two party system, and TWO come along at once and destroy each other.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

        They shouldn’t fight each other Mike, there needs to be a pact in order to fight much more dangerous enemies. Splitting the Brexit vote is precisely what the old stale pro-EU parties want.

      • mancunius
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

        Not in a PR system if they are both first/second preferences, so whatever the result of EU elections, Brexit Party and Ukip should predictably provide enough of a disruptive presence in Brussels/Strasbourg to make the EU less willing to grant an extension beyond 22nd May, after which MEP elections in the UK would be essentially required.

      • NickC
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

        Mike Wilson, Unfortunately Nigel Farage opted to leave UKIP and split the vote, despite the fact he could have walked back in as leader at any time he chose. After all, UKIP were in a mess with Farage’s replacements. I still do not know the real reason. It cannot be the silly claim that UKIP is too right wing because, as leader, Farage could have re-directed UKIP after his own principles if he thought that necessary.

    • a-tracy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

      Well if I were UKIP I would stand down in Doncaster.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

        Yes no need to cannibalise the leave vote. But political parties, like religions don’t do compromise.

    • Nicholas Odoni
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      More of the same coming, I think, unless the Tories drop Mrs May and go all out for a managed WTO deal exit forthwith.

      If they don’t, I think they will be out of office for a decade, and probably more. The betrayal May is trying to inflict on the electorate will not be forgotten.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:58 am | Permalink

      Having watched Politics Live on BBC 2 this lunchtime, somebody needs to have a stern word with Daniel Kawczynski who still purports to be a member of the ERG. All he did was undermine it and squirm and crawl and apologise for ever standing up to the EU. Had I not seen his face, I would easily have thought I was listening to Damien Green or Rory Stewart!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:59 am | Permalink

      So instead of a sensible Conservative Party picking up votes from the Brexit Party, UKIP and leave Labour voters the vote for (FPTP parliamentry elections) will be spit between three parties so as to allow Corbyn/SNP a victory. A compete disaster.

      Well done to traitor Theresa May, Ken Clarke, D Grieve, Hammond, Bercow, Soubry, Merriman and the rest of them. A party destroyed even more effectively than that total idiot John ERM Major even managed to achieve.

    • Mark
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      Much the same in Newport West I expect: Labour had the seat under long time incumbent Paul Flynn, with just over 5,000 majority last time and Tories in second place. This time, Labour is now 12/1 on to win (odds normally for a seat they would win by 20,000 or more), UKIP with Neil Hamilton second at 14/1 against, and Tories at 25/1. The Tory vote looks like it may be completely destroyed. Last time UKIP got only 1,100 votes.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

      I think the Cons will take an enormous hit at the local elections. It will be the first chance for voters to register their utter disgust and contempt for May and her government, the Remainer MPs, the turncoat MPs plus the lack of radical action by Brexiter MPs.

      I believe that we may well be voting in the European elections, although I think the deadline for submitting entry/candidates for them is very soon. If we have the chance, then the full fury of the voters will be unleashed.

      What worries me (besides the very serious implications of actually why we would have had that delay to enable us to take part) is that the EU will somehow decide we cannot take part. May will of course agree with Brussels, as she always seems to, not least because she would not want the utter humiliation of a Tory wipeout in those elections and a smiling Farage.

  2. Dame Rita Webb
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:06 am | Permalink

    That majority of one was achieved by allowing a convicted liar to pass through the division lobbies while she was wearing a tag on her ankle.

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:52 am | Permalink

      Quite. Has there ever been such a dishourable HoC with so many low calibre MPs?

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

      Dame Rita

      Visited Grand Turk only a few weeks ago.

      It was interesting to note that the Island Prison, is actually built next to the Parliament building. !

      A simple fact which made me smile at the time.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      That same point was made to me by a leading Brexiteer in a text message this morning. I thought tagged criminals were supposed to be the subject of a night-time curfew, or is this Rory Stewart’s idea of tough sentencing?

    • ChrissyG
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

      So true! How low Parliament has stooped.

    • DaveM
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      Is she even allowed to vote, being a convicted criminal?

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:59 am | Permalink

      It is reported that she broke her curfew. If true, should be investigated.

    • Susan vincent
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

      It was bercow who had deciding vote tho she should have been nowhere near the votes.

  3. John Soper
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:08 am | Permalink

    Simply a lie to say you’re either in or out. Norway’s relationship with the EU bears no comparison to Canada’s for example. We have to choose what “out” really means. A choice which you Leavers brushed under the carpet during the referendum and which you are still trying to evade today. We need a new referendum on Remain or Leave-on-defined-terms (not fairies and unicorns)

    • Andy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:43 am | Permalink

      This is the crucial point.

      I am a passionate remainer but I could live with a Norway type deal. A Norway type deal which, incidentally, both Farage and Daniel Hannan pushed for many years – including after the referendum.

      And, the closeness of the refenedum would suggest that this is where we should end up. Out but close.

      But Leavers have not confronted the unpalatable choices that leaving creates. You have to make a choice Mr Redwood. And, in 3 years, you have failed to do so. Perhaps you should just get on with it?

      • Roy Grainger
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

        Andy – So you are saying if Remain had won 52-48% then you could have lived with Norway option too given the closeness of the vote ?

      • Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

        I beg to differ on this one, I am afraid.
        For several years, I have been suggesting that we leave the EU and the EU/EEA as planned. But that we join the Efta/EEA and then negotiate our future.
        For this I have been chucked off Conservative Home twice. I am currently under moderation on this blog and for saying a nice thing about Boris Johnson, I have even been chucked off eureferendum.com where the EEA suggestion originated.
        The torrent of invective against this proposal has been quite intense too!

      • Dominic Johnson
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:02 am | Permalink

        I thought Norway wasn’t an option because it suffered from legislation by fax machine?
        That’s what the Remoaners were saying before the referendum…

      • William1995
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:03 am | Permalink

        Many leavers could palate a Norway-style compromise. The problem is that the WA and the Backstop are significantly worse because they are treaties without an exit clause and which split our Country. No deal offers a future relationship in which we have a say, does not split our Country and, as published in the EU’s no deal plans last week, does not have a hard boarder on the island if Ireland.

      • Anonymous
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:12 am | Permalink

        Clearly you didn’t know what Remain meant but I would settle for a Norway type deal too now.

        May needs to be gone and a Eurosceptic installed in leadership to save the Tory party. It’s the only way for them to survive.

      • Richard1
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        The problem with a Norway type deal is the EU would say it needs to include the CU also (to solve the contrived issue of the Irish border). That makes it equivalent to being in the EU but with no votes, an option which ought to be obvious even to keen brexiteers to be inferior to actual membership. Perhaps in retrospect the govt should have tabled a comprehensive Swiss type arrangement, as a leave-remain compromise (as suggested by Dan Hannan both before and after the referendum) and forestalled the trap of the Irish backstop. One thing is certain, it was very foolish to trigger article 50 with no plan.

      • Jagman84
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        Theresa May has been in the driving seat for those 3 years. It’s hard to control the direction of travel when the driver refuses to listen. But, of course, you knew that, preferring to abuse our host in your customary style.

      • a-tracy
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        Hannan, ConHome October 2015 “Sheesh, europhiles, how many times? No British Eurosceptic is suggesting that we precisely mimic Norway’s relationship with the EU. Norway’s deal is better than full membership; Switzerland’s is better than Norway’s; but the United Kingdom, being a larger market, as well as an existing member, can expect better terms than either.”

        • Roy Grainger
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

          Hannan ? Why is the personal view of someone no-one’s heard of relevant ?

          • a-tracy
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

            I was replying to Andy who named Daniel Hannan as someone he had seen supporting leave.

        • mancunius
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

          ‘Better terms’? I did not believe that at the time, nor did I believe it a few months later when I voted to leave the EU. It was clear that the EU was just waiting for an opportunity to unloose its petulant britophobic rage, and that the economic interests of its businesses and citizens would count for nothing. It has, I must say, met every expectation.

          We must leave completely, lock, stock and barrel. You do not lock yourself in the house with an abusive ex-partner.

        • Andy
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

          Hannan was a big fan of Norway until well after the referendum. And then maybe someone explained it to him and he became less keen.

          And then he became a big fan of Switzerland. Then somebody explained what that meant too.

          It is a simple fact that Brexiteers have not understood that ALL of your options require you to make some deeply unpalatable choices.

          Just make them and we can move on.

          • NickC
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

            Andy, I already did by 2003. The only practical options are in or out. I am not alone either.

      • eeyore
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

        You know Andy, you’ve finally convinced me about Brexit. I now think that as a foolish old person I’d do far better to let you wise young people decide the country’s future. It’s your future, after all, not mine.

        So I shall no longer vote Conservative. Indeed I hope and believe that hundreds of thousands of other pensioners who have always voted Conservative will also go on vote strike.

        Then we shall have a majority Marxist administration under Mr Corbyn which will rapidly trash the economy and obliterate the hopes and prosperity of the Remain voting generations. We old fools will have moved our assets elsewhere in good time, of course.

        Happy Remaining.

      • NickC
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

        Andy, Don’t be even more silly than usual. We were offered two choices only at the Referendum and, despite Remain “information” (ie: lies) we still chose to leave the EU treaties.

        You know as well as I do that if the vote had gone the other way, there would be no question at all about the UK remaining fully in the EU – Leave would not get a look in.

        • margaret howard
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

          NickC

          “You know as well as I do that if the vote had gone the other way, there would be no question at all about the UK remaining fully in the EU – Leave would not get a look in.”

          “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

          Nigel Farage

          17th May 2016

          • NickC
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

            Margaret Howard, Nigel Farage was not talking about preventing Remain from being implemented, just that he would not give up campaigning. They are not the same thing as you well know.

      • Steve
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Have you not considered just shutting up ?

        After all, you lost the referendum.

        • Chris
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

          He maybe wasn’t taught at school that there are winners and losers in life, and you have to learn to lose graciously. We have a lot to “thank” cultural Marxism in our schools for.

        • hans christian ivers
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

          Steve,

          Unconstructive and unhelpful remarks

          • Steve
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

            HCI

            On the supposition that you are not British, possibly not resident in the UK for very long if at all, you invite the question; What’s it got to do with you anyway ?

            Your pro european stance is unhelpful and unconstructive.

          • NickC
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

            Hans, Popping up again with your pompous and unhelpful remarks? Do you actually have anything constructive to say – like why, in your opinion, we should be ruled by the EU?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

      John Soper
      No..the majority voted to leave.
      It was then up to the politicians ( who had each had their individual vote in the Referendum) to come up with a suitable formula.
      ( You know…implement the will of the people).
      May’s TREATY = Remain.
      AND we were only even in the EU because of lies!

      • Everhopeful
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

        Oh!
        Can it be true?
        Being reported that Letwin-Cooper vote might have made No Deal more likely??

    • Edward2
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:35 am | Permalink

      John
      Did you not read the Leaflet?
      Did you not listen to the PM and his many speeches?

      Anyway there will not ne any “defined terms” to vote on until all trade and other terms are negotiated whi h could be years away at current rates of progress.

    • jerry
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:12 am | Permalink

      @John Soper; I was with you until your last sentence, no we do not need to re run the Leave question, but we do need to be asked How (and perhaps even When) question.

      “Flexcit” (in effect a Norway style deal) was one of the 28 Leave manifestos, for all we know 10 million out of the 17.4m who voted Leave might well; have been thinking ‘Flexcit’ when they voted in favour or Leave, on the other hand that 10m might have been thinking ‘WTO’ – who knows, perhaps only God…

      • NickC
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

        Jerry, The government were quite clear that the “How?” was the TEU Article 50, and the “When?” is covered by Art50.

        Neither “Flexcit” nor any other non-Leave options were offered on the ballot paper: only remain in the EU or leave the EU. Leave means leaving the EU treaties – it’s what even Art50 states.

        • jerry
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

          @NickC; A50 of the TEU is a process towards an exit, not the means of exit, A50 allows for an extension to the two years stated. Norway is not a member of the European Union, the question asked, so “Flexcit” is Leaving, just not how some want.

          • NickC
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

            Jerry, Leave means leaving the EU treaties. Flexcit and various other semi-Remain options are not leaving the EU treaties by definition. Art50 is very much (one of) the means of exit. Art50 itself states that the (EU) treaties shall cease to apply to the the UK after 2 two years, or cease to apply after a mutually agreed extension.

          • jerry
            Posted April 6, 2019 at 7:27 am | Permalink

            @NickC; No, “Leave” means leaving the legal entity that is the European Union. Treaties were not mentioned on the ballot, indeed many treaties have already been rolled-over (to take effect upon leaving) since March 29 2016, some more recently in response to the likelihood of a WTO exit.

            As for A50, you might or might not have actually read the text of the article but you sure as hell have not understood it, A50 even allows for the Revoking of a request to leave, so A50 is not the means of exit, just a process that allows exit.

          • NickC
            Posted April 6, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

            Jerry, Leaving the EU can only be accomplished by abrogating (ie: leaving) the EU treaties. Even the means of exit selected by this government, Art50, confirms this by stating: “The Treaties shall cease to apply . . .“.

            The purpose of abrogating the EU treaties is to take back control. Signing back up to the EEA Agreement, or the CU, or May’s WA, puts us back under the control of the EU, where the EU can impose new obligations on us. That is not leaving by definition.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

      EASY.
      We get out, trade on WTO terms, and elect a government committed to Leave, called the Brexit Party, to negotiate. They get the best deal available by NOT cowtowing to the EU and Establishment.

    • NickW
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

      Out means that we choose what sort of relationship we want with the EU; In means that relationship is dictated to us.

      Out means we are free to make trade deals with the rest of the world, In means we cannot.

      In means we come under the jurisdiction of the EU in all matters; Out means our own Courts are Sovereign.

      Out means we can boot out corrupt and incompetent legislators and change failed policy, In means we are stuck with corrupt failures in charge of our destiny.

      Out means we make our own foreign policy; In means we have our foreign policy dictated to us and are likely to end up fighting in the EU’s own little wars.

      Out means we are governed in our own interests; In means that we are governed in the interests of France and Germany, often extremely contrary to our own interests.

      Out means out; there is no confusion.

      • NickC
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:04 am | Permalink

        NickW, Well said.

    • Andy M
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

      This is not true. We were told in no uncertain terms that leaving the EU meant cutting ourselves off from all its securities and comforts completely. I voted to leave in full knowledge of this. Project Fear and the combined attempts of the BBC, most of the media, the CBI and the Church failed to move me. I believe in the sovereign right of a free people to elect and replace their government. The EU supplants and sequestrates this right. That is why we leave. We may well take a hit financially but I’d rather be free.

      • Andy
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        Until you are poor. Then you will understand that you were already free.

        • Edward2
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

          Even the pessimistic Treasury’s report guessing the next 15 years still has us growing with improved standards of living.
          So not poor.

        • NickC
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:19 pm | Permalink

          Andy, As poor as the unemployed young people in the south of the EU?

      • NickC
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

        Andy M, Very well put – succinct and comprehensive – and exactly why I voted Leave.

    • formula57
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      @John Soper “Simply a lie to say you’re either in or out”

      Circa 170 countries seem to have no great difficulty in saying they are “out”, including China, the USA, Japan, India. Why should it be so difficult for the UK?

      When offered a choice of Remain or Leave, what indicated that a Leave choice meant some byzantine interpretation over three years to redefine that clear choice such that Leave means Remain in all but name?

      Had Remain won the referendum, would it have been acceptable to have Parliamentarians nonetheless provide for the UK to leave, all justified by a need to interpret what Remain actually meant?

    • Original Richard
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      Remain shouldn’t be on the ballot paper as we have already voted to leave.

      I think “leave” was clearly defined by both sides during the campaign as leaving all the EU’s institutions – CU/SM/ECJ.

      It is “remain” that was not defined and it remains not defined, particularly by those remainers who believe in the biggest unicorn of all that we can remain in the EU and reform it when in fact further integration and transfers of powers/sovereignty to the EU are unstoppable.

    • Original Richard
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      The EU is not static, so if we have any second referendum with “remain” on the ballot paper remainers need to define what remain means, particularly since many remaners are unaware that further integration and transfers of powers/sovereignty to the EU is unstoppable.

      For instance :

      The loss of UK rebate.
      The Inability to control the budget as there are now more QMV votes from recipient than donor countries.
      Joining the Euro.
      Joining Schengen.
      Continuing with the CAP and CFP.
      Uniform corporate and personal taxation and benefits.
      Uniform regulation of financial services.
      Our army and nuclear capability under the control of Brussels
      Handing over our permanent seat at the UN to the EU.
      EU foreign, defence and security policies taking precedence over national forces and policies
      Continued EU immigration as the EU expands further, including all the “stan” countries (Mr. Cameron’s “Atlantic to the Urals” Kazakhstan speech July 2013) and, as the Eurozone matures, making less competitive countries become ever poorer.
      Mandatory migrant quotas as the EU has a policy to import regular flows of people from the ME and Africa, having signed the UN’s Global Compact for Migration.

      And of course the removal of Article 50 from the next treaty.

      All powers applied by people we do not know, do not elect and cannot remove.

      • Pominoz
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

        OR

        Absolutely agree. What mindset drives Remainers to opt for this type of future for themselves and their offspring?

      • Bon Accord
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 4:16 am | Permalink

        Mr Redwood, you repeatedly post this list of lies. Why? You know these are lies. Everything here is subject to state veto.

    • David Price
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

      I did choose, there was no “deal” specified on the referendum paper, simply leave the EU which does not mean stay in a bit, even a little.

      Remainers have continually refused to say what “remain” means and what the vision for the UK is within the EU. They have refused to even discuss it over the last 43 years and never admit to the EU having issues or problems so it is hypocritical to start lecturing leavers about what they think.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

      I voted OUT. I distinctly heard it said on many occasions by prominent leave campaigners, that OUT meant leaving the Customs Union, the Single Market, and the ECJ. It was crystal clear. If other people didn’t hear or failed to understand that, then perhaps they weren’t paying close enough attention. Then they have the gall to tell us leavers we did not know what we were voting for, and need another referendum.

      They really do need to get with it.

      • Helena
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 6:01 am | Permalink

        If you can give me one – just one – example of a Leave campaigner even mentioning getting out of the customs union during the referendum campaign, I shall be grateful. Because in truth the Leave campaign never mentioned the customs union – except, in the case of people like Gove, Johnson and Davis and their claims of frictionless trade after Brexit, to state that we would be staying inside the customs union (which is a precondition to frictionless trade with the EU)

        Reply The government leaflet to every household said we would be leaving the Customs Union! I and other Leave campaigners agreed with that.

        • NickC
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

          Helena, The EU’s customs union is only part of the CCP. VoteLeave was quite clear (indeed, it was one of the lead issues) that Leave meant regaining control of our trade policy. If you did not understand that, maybe you should have done some more research and thinking instead of just braying Remain propaganda.

  4. Pominoz
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    You sound downbeat. I do hope it is not a sign that you believe the battle for Brexit has now been lost.

    If Brexit is not now delivered it will be as a result of the stubbornness of one woman and history will not hide the mistakes she has made.

    • Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      Fear not – John Claude Juncker has addressed the troops with these words:

      “And whatever happens, the United Kingdom will still be expected to address the three main separation issues.
      Citizens’ rights would still need to be upheld and protected.
      The United Kingdom would still have to honour its financial commitments made as a Member State.
      And thirdly, a solution would still need to be found on the island of Ireland that preserves peace and the internal market. The United Kingdom must fully respect the letter and spirit of the Good Friday Agreement.”
      He also suggests the EEA solution and several others too. But he says he is quite prepared for the UK to leave without a deal on 12th of this month if the Withdrawal Agreement is not agreed to in the UK Parliament.
      He, not Yvette Balls-Cooper, calls the shots.
      http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-19-1970_en.htm

    • jerry
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

      @Pominoz; If Brexit has been lost it will be because of the stubbornness of those Tory in the Vote Leave camp, not wanting to actually ask the people How they want to leave, there was never going to be a majority in the 2015 parliament even had a Brexiteer become party leader. That is why the people needed not only to instruct parliament to Leave bout How the UK should do so, but the ERG thought they could simply bully their will upon both govt and parliament – and of course that is why they all bulked at standing to be counted for leader, had their ideas been rejected by the party membership they knew they were a busted flush.

      • NickC
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

        Jerry, You are using “How?” to change the outcome. We already voted for the outcome to leave the EU treaties in a timely manner. Remaining partly in the EU – the EEA option, etc, – is not a “How?” question, it actually contradicts the Leave outcome we voted for. So the ERG are right.

        • jerry
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

          @NickC; “You are using “How?” to change the outcome.”

          Don’t be silly, that’s like accusing a Landlord of attempting to remove all the light fittings from a property simply because they asked the tenant what wattage of light bulbs they want installed!

          The 2016 referendum question simply asked about leaving the legal entity that is the European Union, nothing more, the EEA is not the European Union, otherwise best you tell the people of Norway their country has in fact joined the EU…

          You are fully entitled to your opinion as to what Leave means but until someone can cite real world ‘majority’ figures from the electoral commission official results -and how is anyone going to do that unless the people are asked- all many (on both sides of the argument) are doing is trying to project their personal ‘wish-list’ Brexit end game onto others.

          • NickC
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

            Jerry, Don’t be silly, it’s nothing like a landlord etc . . . .

            Norway is partly in the EU – because it has signed a specific EU treaty (the EU’s EEA Agreement) that allows the EU to control the trade aspects of Norwegian governance.

            The real world majority figure was 52% in favour of the UK government provided option of leaving the EU treaties as outlined in Art50. As David Cameron, other Remain campaigners, and VoteLeave said.

          • jerry
            Posted April 6, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

            @NickC; Norway is legally not in the EU, the EEA [1] is a separate legal entity. What you believe as ‘fact’ is irrelevant to the true facts under international treaty law.

            “Leave” means leaving the legal entity that is the European Union, did you not read the ballot paper, did you not understand what you were voting on (or since), obviously not!

            There were 28 different Leave manifestos, all legally campaigning for a Leave result, not just your beloved Vote Leave group, if those other 27 manifesto campaign groups should not have been campaigning then the referendum result is void!…

            [1] as is the EFTA too

          • NickC
            Posted April 6, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

            Jerry, Norway has signed the EEA Agreement which is under the direct control of the EU. Norway may send faxes to Brussels but the reality is they must do as they’re told for the policies covered by the EEAA. The EU can, and does, impose new obligations on Norway.

            The Referendum ballot paper did not say: “Leave the legal entity that is the EU” that is your invention. However in either case the UK can only leave the EU by abrogating (ie: leaving) the EU treaties. Part of your problem is you don’t seem to know the difference in principle between, say, the TEU and NATO.

            There were many campaign groups on both sides, but there were only two designated lead campaigns.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      The battle for the Tory party is lost, not the battle for Brexit.

    • John Hatfield
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

      Pominoz, there is an army of Establishment controllers dictating to her. She is just a muppet doing as she is told.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:18 am | Permalink

        When David Cameron deserted his post we needed a new Prime Minister, and Theresa May was the best replacement that the Tory party could provide. Just reflect on that – this liar, cheat, hypocrite and traitor was the very best person that the Tory party could offer to lead the government of our country.

      • NickC
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

        John Hatfield, You are right that there is army of Remain establishment controllers, but they don’t need to force Mrs May – she betrays us gladly.

    • Nicholas Odoni
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      Dunkirk was a defeat, but not the end of the story. It was followed, after a period of careful preparation and hard work, by D-Day; that’s ‘D’ for deliverance.

      Likewise with Brexit, I think. This is most definitely not over …

      • Pominoz
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

        I do hope you are right. I would like to think that, one way or another, we can still get out on 12th April (if the court case does not prove we are out already!).

        It would be sad to see the UK involved in civil disobedience, which I do fear, due to the determination of sufficient MPs to deny democracy. They don’t realise what they are letting loose if they get their way at this time.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

        That was only possible because the Japanese had attacked Pearl Harbour and Hitler had felt obliged to join them in declaring war on the USA.

      • Andy
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

        Indeed it is not. Whatever the Brexit ‘outcome’ we will inevitably be back in before long. Demographics. Innit.

        • Steve
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

          Not necessarily. The writing is on the wall for traitors running this country. Sooner or later Parliament will be purged of their kind, so there will be no one to take us back into the EU. They will be long gone.

          • Andy
            Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

            The people wanting to do the purging are largely in their 70s. I don’t fancy their chances.

      • Henry Carter
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 6:03 am | Permalink

        Dunkirk was followed by Churchill looking desperately for allies. We can’t do it on our own. If we had gone for no-deal after Dunkirk, we’d be speaking German now.

        • margaret howard
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

          Henry Carter

          “If we had gone for no-deal after Dunkirk, we’d be speaking German now.”

          Another one of those meaningless phrases. English is part of the Indo-Germanic language group that is dominant throughout Europe. In fact many linguists maintain that English is not a separate language at all but just another Germanic dialect.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

      The EU has reminded us that the default is still No Deal (Sir John stated this in his summary yesterday), whatever our ill informed Parliamentarians and MSM may say or write. The EU will not open up the WA, and No Deal is currently the default unless the WA passes.
      See eureferendum.blog where Richard North highlights the ignorance of the Press and many MPs about EU procedures and about what has been agreed with the EU so far. His expertise on EU procedures far exceeds that of most MPs.

      http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87196
      Brexit: a tale of two Parliaments

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

      These people arent really bothered about what is thought of them after they’re dead and gone, they’re motivated by the buzz of the ‘here and now’. Nor does it matter what damage they do so long as they’re in the limelight. This is why I continue to say that the most immediate necessity, it to take away May’s power and influence before she can wreck anything else through her utter incompetence.

  5. Mark B
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    There is little point in blaming the EU. The EU have used the time well and, as our kind host has stated here, are ready for No Deal. The problem lay, as we all have been witnessing, with both parliament and the government. Both have been effectively stalling and now, wait for it, have legislated against Leaving without signing the WA. This effectively over turns the Referendum result, subject to Lords approval.

    We have been lied to, betrayed and cheated. There are those in parliament who will crow over this but, as I am hearing and seeing, the Tories are finished. You will never be trusted again – ever ! Labour will get in and, mark my words, they will rig the system so they effectively stay there. They tried it in Scotland and nearly succeeded. They won’t make the same mistakes.

    • SecretPeople
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:39 am | Permalink

      Leaving with no deal unless a mutually agreed extension beyond two years is agreed is EU law. I don’t think one side can legislate against that. Besides, we were told the extension to April 12th was a matter of international law and didn’t need the consent of parliament (or the Queen), thus proving that parliament is not sovereign.

      My point is that the EU still holds all the cards. They can accept an extension with no good reason, but they could just as easily reject one and there would be nothing parliament could do about that. News from yesterdays talks between May and Corbyn indicate Labour would never agree to the withdrawal agreement – the condition for any future partnership.

    • a-tracy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

      You should visit Stoke, Labour aren’t so popular there, and when they find out what this Corbyn’s Custom’s Union means there will be trouble. I want to avoid trouble, angry people do things they regret,

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

      I wouldn’t be so sure about Labour’s prospects. With the odd notable and very welcome exception, their prominent parliamentarians are all seen as pro-EU lackeys. Just think of the consequences, if even a third of all leave-voting Labour supporters turned against them and voted for a pro-Brexit party. It could conceivably be more.

      Corbyn would probably be the scapegoat and swiftly deposed. Anybody to blame but pro-EU maniacs. Yet another party that needs to get real and get rid.

      • Chris
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

        Labour to many represents the best way of kicking the Tories, whatever the Labour leader is like and whatever the policies. Corbyn has had to do nothing but watch Tories destroy themselves.

  6. Newmania
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    The country no longer supports Brexit at all, and throughout our successful years in the EU those who hated it successfully pulled us into the margins rightly, creating the unique arrangement we have thrown away
    People like John Redwood have bene too clever by half. For them, the EU meant Ed Miliband winning an election forever and they tried to use cultural protectionism ( immigration) to get the Laissez faire economics . It was a dangerous game and they have lost
    Mays deal sacrifices everything to get out of Free Movement locking us into European economic and social model whilst excluded form its true value , the single market .
    It is a dire outcome for economic and social Liberals alike and one way or another that is the way we are headed

    John , can you admit that this is worse than being g in the EU ,even for you ?

    • Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      Put WTO Leave in a second referendum then, you Remainers know it would win a supermajority, which is why you want to gerrymander the Referendum with Remain or Remain options!

    • agricola
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      A confusing jumble of inaccuracy. You are witnessing the rats in the sack, we are yet to see it thrown in the river. It could be that the EU are as tired of it as we are. April 12 could be sack in river day.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

      How do you know the country no longer supports Brexit? I haven’t changed my position, so why should anyone else?
      If it seems to you the country no longer supports it, that is because the MSM is working to hide it.
      I’m not happy about the can being kicked down the road, as I expect will happen, but I know that the UK dislike of the EU will fester, just as it will in the rest of the EU. I would rather an extension to signing the WA, as (I’m sure you will agree) it is worse than/not as good as staying in the EU.

      • margaret howard
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

        Dave Andrews

        ” but I know that the UK dislike of the EU will fester, just as it will in the rest of the EU.”

        Not a single EU country has voted for an anti EU government in its latest elections. Brexit has actually strengthened pro EU positions.

        Keep up the good work!

        • Edward2
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

          Margaret, you are blind to all the new parties of left and right emerging in many EU nations.
          They are gaining seats in their Parliaments and under the PR systems they can wield growing anti EU influence.

    • Al
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      “The country no longer supports Brexit at all,” – Newmania

      I find this comment interesting as this morning Yougov released their latest poll showing that every region in England and Wales outside London prefers no deal: 44% in favour of no deal, 34% requesting revoking article 50 and remain. London is the other way. Perhaps it is time London came into step with the rest of the country.

      From pollsters whose polls proved to have a remain bias before the referendum, this is an interesting result.

    • Principled
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:44 am | Permalink

      Newmania , sorry but every one has access to the single market and many sell in more goods than we do successfully despite not being a member of said market so your argument is a non-sequitur.

    • Anonymous
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Civil Service papers saying that No Deal would be sub optimal but not catastrophic ?

    • Jagman84
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      “The country no longer supports Brexit at all.”
      Did you read that in the Guardian or it’s broadcast arm, the BBC?
      Comres polling suggests otherwise. They may be sick of hearing about it but that’s the ploy of remainers. “Just cancel it and take away the pain!” Not a chance!

      • Newmania
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:21 am | Permalink

        Latest poll asking how would you vote in a referendum has
        Remain 46
        Leave 39
        That has been consistent for a good long while now and remember that of those who still support Brexit many could put up with a Norway option.
        No Deal has very low support indeed
        This whole business of regarding every fact as if its source was the only issue has gone far too far.

        As I was saying, much though I deplore the chaos and suffering I have to agree with John that No Deal is better than what we are getting
        When the EU , the country, business , Parliament and Uncle Tom Cobbley could all live with Norway ( kind of thing ) whole process does seem perverse

        • Edward2
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

          Check out ComRes Newmania
          Different result to the poll you are quoting.

      • Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

        Well said, Jagman. I wanted to say something like this, but I was too angry to be coherent.

    • Richard1
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      I would certainly agree Mays deal is worse than remain. It’s also worse than WTO Brexit, which might frighten the horses for a month or two, but we would surely look back and say goodness the cliff edge was only 3 ft high.

      It should be noted that the people in public life who have been right – arguing against the ERM, ensuring we got the euro opt out at Maastricht , keeping us out of the euro – have been the small and much derided Minority of Conservative Eurosceptics. Peter Obornes book Guilty Men is a useful reminder of the insults and opprobrium heaped on Eurosceptics by the likes of FT journalists at the time of the euro debates 20 years ago. Thank God the Eurosceptics won! All the prominent ones should have been knighted in recognition of their service to our Country immediately after the financial crisis, when it became clear what a catastrophe the euro would have been for the UK.

    • tony
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      It’s not just a case of whether or not we support Brexit. The issue is the larger one of democratic accountability, and whether many people now feel it is worth voting ever again.

      • Mitchel
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

        As Uncle Jo (Stalin) used to say :”Those who vote decide nothing;those who count the vote decide everything.”

      • Andy
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

        Um – whether or not the country still supports Brexit is completely the case. This is now what it is all about.

        Of course it was easy to support the fantasy cake and eat it Brexit promised in 2016. Being feckless is attractive to many.

        But reality Brexit is so far removed from the 2016 promises that it is not unreasonable to check it is what people still want.

        • Edward2
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

          We are not getting a brexit because Parliament has a remainer majority.
          Leaving the EU has been hijacked by people like you andy.

        • NickC
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

          Andy, There is nothing “fantasy” about being as independent of the EU as New Zealand is.

          • margaret howard
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

            NickC

            Maybe that’s got something to do with the fact that New Zealand is a bit further away from us than Europe?

          • margaret howard
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

            add comment Nick:

            And about half the population of London?

          • NickC
            Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

            Margaret Howard, What has distance got to do with the principle of independence?

      • John Hatfield
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

        Depends who for, or what the question is, Tony.

    • Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      Order of a proper referendum brexit vote respect, leave now come what may, next week, leave with a deal that ensures we are actually free of any EU influence, a General Election.
      Not one of these options will happen. As ever over the last circa 40 years, we are at the whim of a dictatorial EU of unelected, German dominated, Commission. After we are fully enslaved, probably under that terrible German, Oily Robbins, stupid May connived deal, abetted by the fools and criminal, ankle bracelet wearing MPs, a general Election, God willing, will see the deep state very badly damaged.

    • richard verney
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:37 am | Permalink

      No one knows to what extent the country still supports leaving the EU, but I suspect that the desire to leave the EU is even stronger today, than it was in 2016, if for no other reasons than the following:

      !. Anyone who disliked the EU in 2016, will not have been persuaded by the behavoir of the EU following the referendum, that they were wrong and that the EU is in fact democratic, it is not authoratiarian, it has the best interests of the individual nation states at heart, it is not a bully, it is capable of solving problems.

      2. All the problems that the EU had following the financial crash in 2008, and the migrant crisis in 2014/15 have in no way been solved. The EU is simply incapable of solving any problem, eg., the problem with Greece still exists, the problem with the Italian banks still exists, the problem with the Euro and the economic differences between the Club Med countries in the South, and the wealthier countries in the North still exist, the high unemployment in the Club Med countries still exists , the problem with youth unemployment (particularly in the Club Med countries) still exists, the problem with migration and integration still exists, etc

      3. The EU is in economic stagnation with many countries bordering upon recession.

      4. The EU’s share of world GDP is continuing its decline., and the EU is becoming more and more irrelevant on the world stage, and this trend with continue with the rise of economies in the East and if the US is MGA.

      I know a number of Remainers who have now switched sides. I know many more who have not altered their opinion save that they accept democracy, accept that leave won the day and are utterly appalled at how Politicians have behaved in subverting democracy and failed to deliver Brexit. I suspect many of this group would now put 2 fingers up at the establishment, especially as project fear has proven to be incorrect, and I suspect that many of this group are very sceptical of project fear version 2.0..

      Further, one should recall that during the referendum, no positive case was advanced for being in the EU, and the remain campaign therefore had to be run on project fear. There is no positive case for remaining in the EU if one’s country is a net contributor to it, and that is why a country like Switzerland, whose citizens are well educated and who enjoy a high standard of living, withdrew its application to join the EU in 2016. Iceland withdrew its application to join the EU in 2015.

    • NickC
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

      Newmania, I’m willing to bet that at least 48% of us still want Brexit.

      So when we have the second referendum, we will have won because we’re not educated enough to know that 48% loses and 52% wins. And even if that 48% unfairly doesn’t let us win because you don’t know what you’re voting for, then we can have a third referendum.

      Now . . . . where have I heard that before?

  7. Nigl
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    All good stuff but irrelevant as Theresa May is now behaving like a dictator with only her view counting and it would seem prevailing and noone capable or prepared to stop her or get her to change course.

    Her risk free glass empty strategy means from nothing to as little as possible changing with regard to the EU and that is what we will end up with.

  8. Mick
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    I see the cooper Letwin bill was rushed through to the next stage yesterday , if these Eu loving mps think that the 17.4 million will allow them to overturn the 2016 referendum result by trying to kick the can further down the road then they are in for a very rude awakening , they sit there in Westminster with there smug looks thinking we will overturn the democratic referendum result, well remoaner muppets the boot will be on the other foot when it’s placed on your backsides at the next GE and your given your marching orders , then let’s see the smug look wiped off your faces

    • Mockbeggar
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:07 am | Permalink

      Let’s just hope that one of the EU 27 puts in a veto on our next request for an extension.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      I observe that a short Act to delay Brexit can be rushed through in just two days – I assume here that the Lords will be content to let it pass without touching the sides, with or without assistance from government whips – Mark Francois:

      http://bit.ly/2K5wM3b

      “Has my right hon. Friend heard the rumour that Government Whips in the other place are not planning in any way to stop the Bill being rammed through in a day? In fact, it has been suggested in some quarters that they might even be seeking discreetly to assist it.”

      Whereas in contrast the legislation to deal with Brexit will take ages, according to Theresa May, and it would not be possible to rush through a short Act designed to tide us over an imminent no deal Brexit, supposedly.

      From February 1st:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/02/01/working-throughout-february/#comment-992716

      “Extraordinary times may call for extraordinary measures, such as a broadly drawn but time limited enabling Act empowering ministers to immediately make any necessary changes to the law just by order, but with subsequent retroactive confirmation by normal primary or secondary legislation.

      I am quite sure that if it was really necessary and Theresa May really wanted it to happen then the hordes of government lawyers could come up with special, and legitimate albeit generally undesirable, legal devices to tide us over.

      That is, if it was even necessary to go beyond provisions already available in statute law, including in Section 22 of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 … ”

      From March 17th:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/03/17/i-see-no-reason-for-a-delay-in-brexit/#comment-1003975

      “Secondly I do not accept the argument that there is no longer enough time to pass all the legislation needed for us to leave on March 29th.

      It was actually somebody in the EU apparatus who recently commented:

      “Where there is a political will there is always a legal way”

      and of course that is how they operate, and almost always with the silent acquiescence of our own government even to the point of a prima facie breaches of EU law.”

      And I would add here that whenever I hear that the EU treaties or laws would not allow this or would compel that I recall the “We will do as we damn well please” Article 352 (ex which has been used before to overcome such difficulties:

      https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/subsidiary_powers.html

      “Article 352 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union (TFEU) contains a provision allowing the EU to adopt an act necessary to attain objectives laid down by the treaties when the latter have not provided the powers of action necessary to attain them.”

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

        (ex 308 TEC)

        Over the years there has been concern over the (mis)use of this article.

  9. William Simpson
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:39 am | Permalink

    It appears the choice being offered by May after her discussions with Corbyn are either her WA, or some form of customs union. Not sure how either, (or any, as there may be several “remain” options), deliver leaving the EU. It looks a though we are doomed.

    “Alas, poor Brexit! I knew him, Horatio: a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy: he hath borne me on his back a thousand times; and now, how abhorred in my imagination it is!”

  10. Andy
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    For people who voted to restore Parliamentary sovereignty you lot do not seem to like Parliamentary sovereignty.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:09 am | Permalink

      It was parliamentary sovereignty that gave us the Referendum Bill, with a promise that the government would implement the people’s decision.
      To now row back on that promise, particularly when the two major parties confirmed in their 2017 manifestos that they would abide by the decision of the people, is deceit.
      Whilst in the EU, there is no ultimate parliamentary sovereignty, as UK law is trumped by EU law.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

      Andy, they are all voting against their own manifestoes and why they were democratically voted into government.

    • Edward2
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      That is a silly argument andy.
      Read the Leaflet
      This is your decision. We will implement what you decide.
      Parliament is refusing to be independent and sovereign.
      They are rebelling against tjat vote.

    • William1995
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      This Parliament was elected on a mandate to take us out of the EU and the Customs Union. Just you wait until the next GE. There will be big changes.

    • NickW
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

      Parliamentary Sovereignty is totally dependent on everyone in the Country accepting the result of a legally held ballot.

      The precedent has now been set and Parliament and the Country can now ignore any election result they do not like.

      Parliament has put a gun to its own head and pulled the trigger.

    • Wessexboy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      Andy -at least we can chuck out those who lied to us at the next opportunity. This is why we want to have accountable politics.

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      As Sir Alec Douglas Home famously said “one man, one vote, once”.

      The EU rules OK.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

        The EU rules, but it ISN’T ok!

        The principle of a UK sovereign parliament is a good one, but it needs to be populated by responsible, accountable people. They are there, but self-evidently in very small numbers.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      We wanted parliamentary sovereignty over the EU. Not parliamentary sovereignty over the people. Bit too tricky for you?

      Politicians will pay for this at the next election. A woman in Cooper’s constituency phoned a radio program yesterday. It seems it was a 70% leave voting constituency. I hope she finds out at the next election who she really reports to.

    • oldwulf
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      The electorate prefers Parliamentary sovereignty. Parliament does not.

    • Anonymous
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

      Not when Parliament, once offered it, prefers to give it away again.

      Who really is in charge ?

      What dark forces have caused a Tory leader to align with a Marxist terrorist sympathiser ?

      “No deal is better than a bad deal. Brexit means Brexit.” Pfff.

      • Anonymous
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

        We want The People to have sovereignty – the Parliament our servants, not our masters as they are now.

    • libertarian
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

      Andy

      We haven’t exercise parliamentary sovereignty yet, we will elect a proper sovereign government eat the next election and then you 2nd referendum types will all disappear without trace when you realise that all you’ve achieved is to tuen even more people against membership of the EU

      Cheers keep up the god work

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

        Libertarian

        was that written far too fast?

        • NickC
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:54 am | Permalink

          Hans, People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones . . . .

    • John Wood
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

      Why not – since Parliament itself does not like Parliamentary sovereignty.

    • a-tracy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      Because many of this current parliament’s MPs lied to get elected. Yesterday I saw Yvette Cooper’s leaflet, she tricked people they are not happy. My MP tricked us for her vote.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

        Should Mrs Balls lose her seat at the next General Election, she should be disbarred from holding any EU office for the rest of her natural life.

    • a-tracy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      Also, MPs that resigned from their party, or voted against no deal which should still be an option we were told last August “With less than eight months until Britain is due to leave the EU, and only about four months left to reach an agreement on the terms of its exit, her government is still stressing its readiness to depart with no deal in place”, they should stand for by-elections so the public can keep calm and measured, it gives their local electorates a chance to have their say peacefully without anger.

    • tony
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      ….because Parliament is willingly passing sovereignty over to Brussels.

    • bigneil
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

      And you Andy clearly don’t want democracy, unless the vote agrees with you. Leave won.

      • ChrissyG
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:08 am | Permalink

        “The country no longer supports Brexit” you say? That’s made me laugh. Read the polls. Then retreat once more into your la la land.

      • Andy
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

        It did win – following a campaign of lies and cheating and promises that they have been unable to deliver.

        The Brexiteers were given many seats around the Cabinet table and their own department to make their project work.

        They flunked it. They delivered you a turd. Start blaming them and yourselves for trusting the charlatans in the first place.

        • Edward2
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

          You forgot to mention the lies of Project Fear during the referendum campaign.

        • NickC
          Posted April 5, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

          Andy, Following a campaign of lies and cheating and promises that they have been unable to deliver, Remain actually lost. It only appears that Remain won because the majority Remain MPs have cheated us.

    • Original Richard
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      It is the people of the country who are sovereign and any particular Parliament is only gifted sovereignty temporarily by the people for the Parliamentary term until the next GE.

      Hence no Parliament can bind future Parliaments and no Parliament has the authority to give permanently away the nation’s sovereignty.

      Mrs. May is asking us to sign a treaty with the EU from which we cannot lawfully exit. This cannot be legal under our constitution.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

      Glad you agree 2nd referendum now off the table Andy – rejected several times in Parliament. Your March was a waste of time.

  11. Dominic
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Tory Brexiteers are not prepared to break away from a party that’s become a mere vessel for careerists. If that is so and I believe it is then Brexit doesn’t rate so highly. It is still politicians putting party before country.

    We knew this would happen 3 years ago. Tory Brexit MPs have had 3 years to formulate their strategy and they’ve failed.

    You’re quite simply unprepared to do what needs to be done to secure Brexit and that means breaking away and forming a new party in Parliament

    Brexit Tory MPs have nothing in common with this PM. She’s a proven liar, a socialist and an adherent of all that is left leaning.

    A small number of Labour MPs have broken away so why can’t Brexit Tory MPs who number around 220?

    If you’re not prepared to act radically then I see little point in complaining about the treachery of May and Corbyn. These two and their lackeys are utterly vile. It is what they are. No principles. No respect. No dignity. No shame.

    They will sell their soul to the devil and they will sell this nation’s democracy down the river

    • Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

      You answered your own question. They have 220! Pointless ‘breaking away’. Now however we need a new single United Leave Party that can win a general election!

    • Everhopeful
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      Dominic
      100% agree.
      I have been dumbfounded by the lack of response/action from Brexiteers.
      And in the face of ( near?) criminality from Remainers.
      Honestly it almost makes one suspect a good cop/bad cop scenario where our “ champions” were in on the fact that the whole thing was a farce??
      I do hope not!!

    • WingsOverTheWorld
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

      I echo your feelings precisely. I was going to argue the devils advocate case for staying in the Party, but I ended up countering my own argument. The Tories are finished. How can you support anything the Tories do from this point on, as everything will not be Brexit?

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

      They had the perfect chance to break away in 2010, when Brown was a sitting duck and UKIP was in its ascendancy. The chance was lost, and our country lost by that poor judgement. Just think where the country would be now had a UKIP majority government been elected with the help of the Tory Brexiteers then!
      They’ve reaped what was sewn by them blindly following Cameron and useless May into this rabbit hole.

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

      Agree totally.

      If there is no GE this year true Leave MPs should resign their seats and fight by elections en masse, but as you say the back benches and lifestyle are too comfortable to forsake for supposed principle. This of course would cause a GE.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

        When we think of MPs, we must always try to remember one little observation of mine. When it’s coming up to election time, they will fall over themselves to be friendly. After it’s over and the results are in, most couldn’t care less and treat us with contempt.

    • Captain Peacock
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      I have to admire Dennis Skinner and Kate Hoey of the Labour party who have more credibility than most of the Tory party on Brexit.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

        Absolutely!

      • outsider
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

        Agreed. Also Kelvin Hopkins (Suspended Labour).

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:12 am | Permalink

      Well said Dominic – Totally agree

    • forthurst
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

      The Tory Party has always been a vessel for careerists. It has no ethos. People who support the party are deluded because they project their own individual Weltanschauung on an organisation which behind the scenes is open to the highest bidder.

    • a-tracy
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      Conservative MPs who want to break their manifesto pledges should give their local people a say by putting themselves up for re-election. It would be a peaceable solution if the local people decide to re-elect them then their place is justified as they are truly the choice and they are representing the majority of their electorate that trust them not just their own version of what should be done, you can’t say one thing to get elected then vote and act in another, they should spell out exactly how they intend to vote about the EU’s future relationship. In Wokingham everyone knew what John Redwood stood for, some none Conservatives vote for him, same in the Wirral with Frank Field I know conservatives that vote for him the man not the Labour party.

  12. agricola
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    The EU might just be our salvation. They are getting increasingly pissed off with May and the HoC, as are we all. They do not want a great influx of Brexit Party members to their parliament after May end. So they are unlikely to grant any long extension to Art 50. I think there is every chance they could demand that we leave on 12 April.

    That is the point at which you need to get rid of May and her Cabinet. They failed to stop her in her courtship of Marxist Corbyn and none have resigned. Logic suggests they agree with it. It was their suicide note. Lets keep our fingers crossed for the 7th April.

    • agricola
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

      If I wake this early I think you could at least mkdefate it.

  13. Mark B
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    Dear Sir John Rewood MP,

    I am reading a lot of comments lately, mostly from people who have never posted here before, asking you to split from your party. Whilst I accept that this is your decision I would ask you, as you have done before with those that wanted you to join UKIP to ignore them. All what would happen is that you will be replaced with a Europhile and anti-democrate.

    Thanks for all you have done.

  14. Alan Jutson
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    The people were asked to vote and did so, Parliament has now chosen to ignore that vote.

    I suppose we must now await for the EU elections to make our protest heard loud and clear.

    I hope the Conservative and Labour Party are not expecting much success.

  15. Roy Grainger
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    I don’t understand what May and Corbyn are discussing really . May and the EU have both said the WA is closed and MUST be passed in all circumstances. Does Corbyn agree ?

  16. Fedupsoutherne
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    Brexit party it is then. Parliament has dug its own grave. Businesses are truly fed up with our useless so called MP’s. The public are fed up with the misleading comments and blatant lies.

  17. Kevin
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    To those MPs who would still like to leave the EU with a deal: we already have one. They have prepared for “No Deal”, as should we. That’s the deal.

    I understand that this bill has yet to receive the Royal Assent. Now will we see if Elizabeth has the heart and stomach of a king.

  18. BW
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    Sir John, can’t you talk to any European governments, like Teflon Tony and Mr Corbyn and ask them to save Britain by voting against the extension. Some of them dislike the EU establishment as much as we do. Surely we are only one rejected vote from No Desl on the 12th

  19. Robin Brooke-Smith
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Remainer Parliament is seizing control. Government is moving relentlessly to softer/no Brexit. It is down to raw and naked power. You, Sir John and your fellow Brexiteers, must now take decisive and dramatic action and make the world sit up and notice. You must decide. Bring down May, mass resignations from government, mass rejection of the whip, etc. Even a majority in cabinet is now ignored by the arrogant betrayers. Jaw jaw must now give way to war war. Sadly this is what they have brought us to.

  20. BW
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    I don’t like the result of the Oliver, Cooper, Bercow Bill last night. Can we have another vote today, or at least another indicative vote on whether to have one. Or maybe ask the EU to overrule and demand that the Bill is done again. Oops I forgot. Remain only have to win once.

  21. hans christian ivers
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Sir JR,

    Yes you are right many successful countries are not members as are many successful countries members of the EU.

  22. Lucas
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    can understand why some leavers want to get away from it all, only thing is none of you have yet offered a credible alternative to our present circumstance- by saying we’ll go to WTO rules just does not do it for me..

    Then listening to the Gov BoE today – he lays it out in real stark terms –

    No am afraid we are heading for the cliff, I can it see ahead, only chaos, disruption, queues and delays.. and no advantages at all

    You intimated by this stage we would have a deal with them as equal partners but that has not happened either..some of us feel very badly let down.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

      Lucas, “going to WTO rules” is the specified path laid out in Article 50 in the event of a No Deal. There are set procedures for leaving on this basis. It is plain mischievous and deceitful of MPs to ascribe such uncertainty and “off the cliff” connotations to it. Once out of the EU, and operating on the clear WTO procedures, the UK can then start to negotiate further agreements. Many countries in the world follow WTO rules. We wouldn’t be off the cliff and at the bottom of the ocean. That is just false.

      Sir John, could you print in one of your articles all of Article 50? It would be really helpful.

  23. Everhopeful
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Oh dear.
    How very,very depressing.
    All you Remoaners had better get your grandads’ rucksacks down from your attics.
    You, your kids or grandkids will be needing them when the EU army call up papers start plopping onto the mat!
    ( Ages 17-24 or somesuch and no gender discrimination you’ll be glad to hear!)

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

      Everhopeful

      What a load of unqualified nonsense

      • Everhopeful
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 6:49 am | Permalink

        Hans Christian ivers.
        Someone else insisted that an EU army was a “fantasy”!

  24. GilesB
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    The Prime Minister can, if she wants to, ignore the instruction to ask for an extension.

    Her Administration have been in contempt of Parliament before.

    There would be consequences. But there wouldn’t be an extension.

  25. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    David Cameron should carry the can for the demise of the Conservative party. He granted a referendum and when he didn’t like the result he left his party in the lurch. He and May will go down in history for all the wrong reasons. Is there anything to be proud of? I don’t think so.

  26. Iain Gill
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    I just hope a proper Brexit party stands for all elections from now on.

  27. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Most MPs want to reverse the referendum result and have done since it was announced. Most are consummate liars who haven’t the guts or integrity to state their true aim. They really do think we are too stupid to have known what we voted for and that we can’t see through their disgraceful duplicity and mendacity. The future prospects for Conservative and Labour candidates in future elections is looking grim but MPs are too self-possessed to recognise it. They soon will.

  28. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    Personally I am fine with a victory for the majority, although I am hugely dispirited that our MPs feel they can obfuscate their way to ignoring the choice of the majority in 2016.

    However the hypocrisy of those same MPs who will accept a wager thin majority when it is in their favour is breathtaking.

  29. Edwardm
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    Both Mrs May and Parliament are pursuing a war against the people.
    Unless it wants itself and us to suffer further, the Conservative party needs to rid us of May and leave on Apr 12th on WTO.

    • hans christian ivers
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

      Edwardm

      WTO solution alone does not bring future prosperity to the UK

  30. George Brooks
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    Those that put forward the Bill to force the government to seek an extension on Brexit and those MPs who voted for it come from the same mould as the ”Quislings” in the Second World War.

    Passing more negotiating power to the EU and weakening the UK’s position still further is nothing more than criminal. We are heading towards the same position that we found ourselves in 1940 at Dunkirk. If we don’t re-group and vote down the WA and any future motion to ask for a delay the EU will take complete control of this country and the UK as we know it today will disappear into history.

    What a rotten legacy to pass on to our children and grandchildren.

  31. Lifelogic
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    By allying with Corbyn, our kamikaze PM has declared war on her party
    Is there no betrayal May won’t countenance in order to push through her Remainer Brexit?
    As Allister Heath puts it today in the Telegraph.

    Police it seems are advising MPs to moderate their language and not to inflame feelings. Well it is the MPs cheating the 17.4 million it is that is inflaming feelings, they should advise MP to deliver as promised.

    May is appalling traitor, fraud, liar, cheat, tax and regulate to death socialist and quisling she must go now. She is destroying the party and about to tie the country up in a straight jacket.

    • Pominoz
      Posted April 5, 2019 at 1:44 am | Permalink

      “May is appalling traitor, fraud, liar, cheat, tax and regulate to death socialist and quisling she must go now. She is destroying the party and about to tie the country up in a straight jacket”

      Apart from that you think she is OK?

  32. Nicholas Murphy
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    And over at ConHome there’s an article reporting an ugly mood against the party being encountered by our local election candidates. May is responsible for this. May!

  33. John Sheridan
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    I’m amazed that so many of the Tory party have conspired to keep Mrs May in place. She is ruining the image of the party.

    She once said something along the lines of ‘people are saying we are the nasty party’. Now they might be saying ‘we are an anti-democratic party’.

    Given that no-deal seems impossible now, it might be better to go for a long extension and stand in the EU elections, rather than sign the WA.

    Even then, unless the party actively embraces a no-deal option as part of its renegotiation strategy we will never get a good deal.

  34. The PrangWizard
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    I received my poll card for our local elections yesterday.

    I intend to spoil my voting paper and I would urge everyone who voted Leave in the referendum to do the same in the local election and every other vote that comes up. Every one of the millions who believed our vote mattered, who trusted those who said it did and would be respected. They lied.

    A boycott is not enough, it is invisible, and easily explained away by the dishonest.

    We are being betrayed and belittled, democracy has been thrown back at us, we are being insulted and our faces are being stamped on, led by traitor May, who Sir John continues to respect. He doesn’t say otherwise.

    And don’t make excuses to vote for someone you like, everyone must pay his price. Sticking with a party no matter how much damage it and its leader is doing is loyalty too far.

    There’s more to say on the disgusting and dangerous people who lead the two main parties and many of their followers. The time will come. Maybe we can take our country back some other way. Democracy is not it.

    • Al
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

      If no Leave voters vote, then Leave has no voice. If you wish to register discontent, look at the candidates standing and vote for the one whose policies or stance you believe in, or even a joke candidate.

      Spoiling ballots counts for nothing: if no one votes, they draw straws or flip a coin. It is counted as surrendering your vote to the electing officer, or effectively voting for the winner.

      • Chris
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

        Absolutely agree, Al. It is vital that we vote and make our views clear. I am at the point where I will almost vote for a donkey rather than ultimately supporting May in the local elections.

  35. Anthony
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:31 am | Permalink

    You’re right.

    But just leaving isn’t an option. It won’t be once the EU grants an extension on 10th April.

    At that point will you vote for us to leave? Or will we continue to be trapped waiting for a perfect brexit that can’t happen this side of a general election, that you say you would vote to prevent?

    Please john, you’re right about all of it, but others don’t agree and we can’t leave without your vote.

  36. Lifelogic
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    Matt Hancock, just now on radio 4, talking complete and utter drivel about “respecting the referendum result” and ldelivering the Brexit result”.

    The problem is that non of the things that lying, quisling Theresa May is considering (or pushing) remotely delivers a real Brexit or respect the referendum result. The 17.4 million understand this very well indeed. She is destroying UK democracy, wanting to put the UK in a straight jacket and is burying the Conservative Party in the process. And likely to give us Corbyn to destroy the UK economy further with his policies of confiscation and legalised Government theft.

  37. BW
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    My last comment Sir John,
    Whenever the government used to be democratic and do something good, there was always someone who screamed for a judicial review.
    With all the leaflets put through the door everyone knew that we would be leaving the customs union, single market, ecj etc. The point being everyone knew what they voted for. So with that we voted to leave. What happened last night was a clear attempt to overthrow the result of the referendum. The rush through of that Bill was not only an obnoxious act, it was a clear attempt to overthrow what was voted for.
    So why is nobody screaming for a judicial review as it is clear to everybody that parliament is not working.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

      The Judiciary and legal profession love the EU. It creates loads of financially rewarding and largely parasitic work for them all. Loads more court levels and vague laws they can endlessly argue over at loads different courts levels. Yet another tax on the productive – damaging UK productivity hugely.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

      It was “constitutional vandalism” according to Lord Lawson, BW, but most MPs do not seem to care. Those who are honourable should make their voices heard more strongly. Resign the Party Whip. That represents a clear statement that people will take notice of.

      You state, Sir John, that you are staying put. Well, it looks like May is staying put. If you stay, you abide by her rules. If you leave you and your colleagues can set the constitution/rules, decided the manifesto, and you would have millions flocking to you, particularly if there were some accommodation with The Brexit Party.

  38. Gary C
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Would you in support of democracy consider resigning?

    I’m sure the Brexit Party would be happy for you to join them as would most if not all of the 17.4 patriotic referendum voters.

    Reply No, I intend to keep my promises to my electors and to serve them as I set out in 2017.It is Mrs May who has to explain why she is breaking the promises of our Manifesto.

  39. Peter Miller
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    Venezuela here we come!

  40. Chris S
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    It is now very obvious that Brexit has been the victim of a conspiracy between Brussels and the 27 on one part and the British Establishment, including the BBC, big business, the Civil Service and Remainers in Parliament on the other. The latest develoment has been the complete and open contempt that a majority of MPs have for the democratic wishes of the electorate.

    They have been aided and abetted in the conspiracy by the totally incompetent negotiating team appointed by our hopeless PM and her ineffective Cabinet, which, despite having a majority in favour of a WTO Exit, yesterday allowed May to take No Deal off the table and try and do a deal with the Marxist opposition. How could that happen ?

    Millions of Brexit supporters are utterly disgusted.

  41. miami.mode
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Have just heard Matt Hancock on the radio claim that there will shortly be a law preventing us from leaving with no deal.

    As the government cannot get its dreadful one-sided Withdrawal Agreement through, this means we have completely surrendered the decision of our future to the EU.

    What a deplorable state of affairs and the Conservatives will suffer at the ballot box.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

      mm, that law has no recognition in EU law. The EU legislation as it stands has No Deal as the default. The WA is required to be signed by April 12th if we want to leave with a deal. It therefore has to get through Parliament before that time. The EU has said it will not reopen the WA. Our MSM and many Parliamentarians seem to be ignorant of this. On the other hand, Cooper et al may be aware but are just grandstanding for their own purposes. I actually think they are ignorant of EU law. See Brexit: A tale of two Parliaments
      http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87196

      R North has very considerable expertise on EU legislation and I would suggest he is right in this article.

      (I did not agree with him on Flexcit as it, in my mind, approached the problem without accurate knowledge of why people voted to leave, and put forward “solutions” which would have been unacceptable to Leave voters. That, I believe, is why Cons politicians such as Owen Paterson did not go along with it).

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      Indeed the appalling May and the rest of the quisling remainers are putting UK directly under the thumb of the EU.

  42. Lifelogic
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    I see that the “don’t leave Nick Bowles ” as he flownced off Hugh Merriman says.

    I have fiercely opposed a second referendum – but now I back it.

    Well like his boss, tax to death, Philip Hammond he has, I suspect always been in favour of cheating the 17.4 million out of Brexit.

    A second referendum will be an even more decisive vote for leave unless they fix the question, as they probably would do given all the people like him around.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

      But they would fix the question. They would make it Mrs May’s deal vs Remain or No Deal vs Remain. It ought to be a hierarchical ballot, with Leave vs Remain at top level and options for Leave voters – Mrs May’s deal, No Deal, Norway option, Corbyn’s deal etc – at secondary level. But it wouldn’t be, so let’s have no referendum.

  43. McBryde
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    I’m not well read on constitutional law, but I would have thought that there are grounds for the Queen to step in – or the army – as May and her allies have surely committed treason against the nation.

    Her choices for the HoC:
    1) accept WA
    2) accept WA
    3) accept WA
    4) etc, etc & co

    • Can we debate global
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

      Army must be compromised?

  44. Lorna
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    The details of the vote tells you all,about the state of the Conservative Govt
    Fourteen Tory MPs voted for this treacherous plot
    A further 6 abstained
    Only 9 Labour failed to support their Party line
    The resulting loss by one vote was entirely avoidable if Tory rebels had not chosen to act in defiance of voters and their Party
    They must bear the full anger of their grassroots who are being subjected to dire treatment by voters as they attempt to canvas for the Local elections

  45. Captain Peacock
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Hope you cleared your comment with the new Deputy Prime Minister the one and only Mr Jeremy Corbyn.
    How long more are the Tory party putting up with this useless woman making a joke of your party and the country.

  46. Turboterrier.
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Sir John.

    My heart bleeds for you and the few supporters you have within the house.

    This Parliament has been built solely on lies, lies, lies and more lies.

    This is the end of a once great democracy even the younger element of the population are totally amazed and disgusted in the way that the Government has handled this whole affair. Too many of the politicians are clueless and it is now the real cost of their incompetence, ignorance and contempt for the electorate has been hoisted upon us.

    Always been bought up to believe that you owe it to the millions who died for our freedom to vote. From now on I will go into the booth and make my mark against the Honesty Party. The vote will not count but I will have shown my abhorrent disgust at what Parliament has become.

    Hammond and all the senior remainers are still spilling out their bilge ably supported by the BBC Breakfast programme highlighting food production stock piling. Not one consideration for all those who voted and put their faith and beliefs in the words of Cameron and May that for once we would have a real meaningful say in the future of this country. All of them totally besotted with the EU and prepared to take away our sovereignty and allowing us to become a vassal state in the hope of their own agendas and plans coming to fruition.

  47. Iain Moore
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    This Cooper Letwin bill was just got a 0.3% win , if they can ignore a 1.4 million 4% Brexit win then we can surely ignore a one vote win, especially as one of the ‘MPs’ voting for it was Fiona Onasanya who is an ex convict still on bail, who I believe is not allowed to vote, yet it seems she can vote to make laws. This is pretty outrageous, so there is no reason what so why we should respect the law they are trying to create.

  48. Bryan Harris
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    It will no doubt be very interesting to historians how the various shenanigans played out … but this is all becoming superficial to what is really happening.
    We are being historically betrayed by a PM and Parliament that will not allow us to escape the clutches of the EU, no way – She, and they, have made that abundantly clear.
    The time for marches is over – They had no effect on how MP’s voted anyway. Ministerial resignations also made no difference… and now that she is cuddling up to Corbyn, she probably doesn’t need to persuade any more reluctant Tories.
    Drastic action is required now. I would suggest (1) that all Brexit MP’s become UKIP MP’s or just resign from the party; (2) Some direct action is taken against May – There must be something that can be done FGS, to get her out of the driving seat!

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted April 5, 2019 at 9:00 am | Permalink

      Such appeals are, tragically, likely to fall on deaf ears. Absolute loyalty is written through the bones of most Tories, particularly Sir John. He will never leave the party no matter what it does under whoever the leader is. I’m sure he would allow the country to be betrayed, and everything he stands for to be sabotaged to keep the party together. After all he thinks the WA is a disaster but he remains loyal and the party has moved to the political Left significantly. He is still there. He could show a lead but he doesn’t.

      Yes, this is rather a personal attack but what’s left? I remember he also said he would not leave the party because he didn’t want to be lonely. Not sure exactly what that meant but it didn’t read well.

      Reply In order to achieve things in politics you need to work with others. I said I would not leave the Conservatives to join UKIP when we were trying to secure a referendum as only the Conservatives had the votes needed to get one through. I was right and we got one. Now I have to work with the Conservative MPs who do support Brexit to deliver it in this Parliament. There are no special pro Brexit MPs in this Parliament outside the main parties to do it for you. If I changed party today it does not make any difference to the votes in the next division in Parliament so I will not be doing it! I was elected as a pro Brexit Conservative and that is how I speak and vote in line with the promises I made to my electors.

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted April 5, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        JR – I get your points, but wouldn’t the loss of say 2 dozen MP’s have an effect on May – wouldn’t that be seen as too much by some, and force the issue of leadership…?

        There must be some way to put more pressure on May to stop her extending???

  49. Lifelogic
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    As you say:- There is no obvious compromise between Leave and Remain.

    Indeed not it is leave or remain. Why on earth would the UK want to “leave” yet allow the EU to continue to have totally undemocratic and permanent control over the UK? The idea is absurd. Mays treaty is an outrage

    How can so many quisling MPs even be contemplating this?

  50. oldwulf
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    The time has come for us to be governed by Artificial Intelligence. The alternative clearly isn’t working. The programming may (no pun intended) be performed at the ballot box 🙂

  51. formula57
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    “… the Commons showed its contempt for the referendum…” – indeed it did and thereby its contempt for the people.

  52. Shieldsman
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Why has Corbyn voted three times against the Withdrawal Agreement?

    Is it just a political ploy to bring the Conservative Government down.

    Read Labours brexit plan and it is akin to remaining in the EU which the majority of MP’s of all Parties voted for.

    The only way for Corbyn to achieve his stated aim of a Customs Union is for his Party to vote through the WA. It is conditional.

    Why is Theresa May inviting Corbyn to join her in voting for the diabolical WA she was trapped into?

    Think about it, when the negotiations in the transition period all go wrong under a new PM, Corbyn and Labour will share the blame.

    The Irish backstop is still in the WA and could be activated.

    Then perhaps Starmer and Corbyn are blind to reality.

  53. margaret
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    When we leave the EU eventually all remainer’s will want to go and live in the EU as they have a strong allegiance to the Brussels dictatorship .!

  54. Fred H
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    You couldn’t make it up. Our PM offers a people’s vote because he rightly thinks he will not win a GE. He at last offers it. LEAVE won. Everybody says we WILL Leave, but the EU begin over 2 years of hard-ball destroying any friendship between UK and EU. The PM runs away and even abandons his constituency. Nobody of any substance is picked, Mrs May is elected. She is not up to the job and ties her Leave manager’s hands. Three in a row resign the hopeless job. The EU are smug and tighten the tornique of a relationship. The UK public protest at the delays. The H of C, full of Remainers plays silly games, trying to pretend they are impartial and carrying out the electorate’s wishes. Any faith in our government dwindles and outrage accelerates. Mass rallies block the streets of London. EU is hamstrung and watch proceedings – Brexit over-rules any other business. Commons business stops completely, vote upon vote defies public belief. Watching media are on it 24/7. Brexit is delayed time and time again. What next?

  55. ukretired123
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    Ultimately the people will decide regardless of Parliamentary shenanigins. You cannot hold the people back.
    When May talks to Corbyn, a lifelong EU critic and sceptic, he has to examine his conscience and knows the EU is not ‘For the many not the few’ and that is after a marathon 47 years track record.
    ‘May you live in interesting times” is a blessing for leavers as EU elections will be the end of the EU as the genie is out the bottle.
    Brexit will become a clarion call to those smarter than the elites around Europe who are their real fear.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

      “you cannot hold the people back”. Well, the Soviet Union managed for so many years. The so far ineffective action by Brexiteers means that we will be in a vassal state, from which we cannot escape. We will be held back because methods of control will be strengthened, and we will end up a dependent and pliable work force of drones, barely above the poverty level. The unaccountable political elite will have cemented their positions, and…….ah, wait a minute, President Trump has come on the scene.

      I believe that,ultimately, he will be our saviour. Sounds incredible? Maybe, but he is operating globally and causing major upset of the deep state/political cabal utterly intent on One World Government, of which, incidentally the EU is an integral part. All things are interlinked these days, and if the grip of the deep state is weakened enough by P Trump (and he is making good progress) then there is hope for those in the UK fighting for sovereignty and freedom.

      • ukretired123
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

        You could be right as it is not in the USA’s interest to see an old respected ally be sucked into an EU who is becoming increasingly hostile to it and doesn’t pay for its security via NATO.
        We could be in a tug-of-war between Russia, USA, Europe (and China) similar to Ukraine or your Global Elite concerns.

  56. Les
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Everyone at their wits end…
    I am astonished at the number of references being made from all sides to the Bible:
    “Pathetic – as pathetic as Mr Steve Baker putting his hope in the HoL to somehow filibuster “That Bill” (here). … Has he, have we still not learned not to put our ‘trust in Princes’?” Independence Daily,
    however one never ever hears of anyone wanting to put their trust in God.
    Here are another two which might ring home:
    “that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will, and sets up over it the basest of men.” Dan.4:17
    “till thou know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will.” v.25
    PS I remember hearing to my astonishment that godless Donald Trump called for a national day of prayer (was it during a hurricane?) but you won’t find this mentioned in the MSM!

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

      President Trump is not godless, and if you listen to his speeches and his meetings with groups and leaders and read his posts, God is central to his beliefs.

      • Les
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

        I genuinely hope that you are correct, and I am wrong, Les.
        Unfortunately politicians – as we are fully discovering just now – will say everything necessary to get elected or stay in power – what they actually believe may be quite another thing 🙁

        • Chris
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

          President Trump does what he promises. That is why he has such a huge following, but you will never hear about it in the MSM.

          Negative coverage of P Trump by the MSM in the US is about 90% from surveys. The Press, except for a couple of outlets, is not free. It is an arm of the Democrat Party and the deep state and has constantly waged war on P Trump from when he was campaigning to the present day. Corruption………………. has apparently been found, and I suspect that there will be arrests in the coming months.

          There is now a very significant switch to alternative sources of information and some excellent blogs (US) have risen up to meet that demand. Make no mistake P Trump is revolutionising politics. A politician that keeps his word. Amazing and so encouraging and the people like it, hugely or should I say “bigly”.

  57. William Long
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    From the comments made by Mr Hammond, it sounds as if Brexit is effectively over for the moment and it is better that it should be given that the only Brexit we are likely to be allowed under this Government is something that will effectively tie us to the EU for ever and it is vital that we do not get this.
    Let us hope that the Conservative party replaces Mrs May with someone who actually wants to Leave, and then we can start again.

  58. gyges
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Everything Parliament does re non-Brexit from 29th Mar is ultra vires.

  59. Know-Dice
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    What compromise are those that won this vote going to offer to the losers?

  60. Les
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    Could a bill with momentous consequences have been passed towards law by the one vote of an unrepentant MP who is still within her 3 month prison sentence? This would put the cap on the humiliation of GB.

  61. rick hamilton
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    If I understand it correctly, the Cooper bill has been forced through parliament in one day and a No Deal Brexit will become illegal ?

    How can you outlaw not reaching an agreement when there isn’t an acceptable one? I cannot understand the utter stupidity of throwing away the one remaining negotiating card that May has not already surrendered. If the expected May/ Corbyn appalling fudge fails to get a majority the only option left will be Remain. Which is what most of them wanted all along.

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:01 am | Permalink

      Rick,
      You’re correct. They have no intention of allowing us to leave their beloved EU. It’s like a religion to them.

    • rose
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:47 am | Permalink

      No Deal is just built up as a bogie and used as an excuse to prevent Exit. All it means is they haven’t the guts to admit what they are doing, which is, little by little, strangling Brexit.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

      EU law and the terms of Article 50 are what matter, Rick, and as Juncker has written in the statement for the commission, the default, if the WA is not signed by April 12, is still leaving with No Deal.

      http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_SPEECH-19-1970_en.htm

      Statement by President Juncker on the United Kingdom’s withdrawal from the European Union at the European Parliament’s plenary session
      Brussels, 3 April 2019

      “…Yet I believe that a “no deal” at midnight on the 12 April is now a very likely scenario. It is not the outcome I want. But it is an outcome for which I have made sure the European Union is ready.

      We have been preparing since December 2017. We have always known that the logic of Article 50 makes a “no-deal” the default outcome. We have long been aware of the balance of power in the House of Commons…..”

  62. Denis Cooper
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    The Tories, including pro-Brexit Tories, have allowed Theresa May to wreck Brexit.

    I have my letter:

    http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/04/02/different-types-of-delay/#comment-1009484

    printed in the Maidenhead Advertiser today with the heading:

    “PM must press hard for independent trade policy”

    but sandwiched between two letters calling for a second referendum, albeit their authors are coming at the question from otherwise opposing directions.

    It is not unknown for the EU to lose a repeat referendum, but it is rare. In fact the only case seems to be Norway twice rejecting EEC/EU membership:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendums_related_to_the_European_Union

    I will copy across just the last paragraph of the letter:

    “Over the past two and half years we have witnessed the extraordinary spectacle of a government which never attempts to refute attacks upon its central official policy, and
    in fact sometimes appears to be the original source of scare stories and other fallacious criticisms.”

    So what do we think the government would be doing during a second referendum?

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

      Get rid of May, start a campaign to weed out all remainers from the Tory party – especially those who have been duplicitous or obstructive – then make it a party whose very ethos is to do right by UK citizens, not keep timidly running to the EU. Then the need to sit patiently for thirty years until all the damage May has caused to the party’s reputation and credibility is finally fading into the background.

      May conned me once, but so did a lot of other Tories who have since shown their true colours. I’m looking elsewhere, perhaps to the Brexit Party.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:21 pm | Permalink

      I think that most Norwegians didn’t want ‘the Norway option’ but would have preferred a hard Nexit.

  63. Nicholas Odoni
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I think this has become – and quite possibly has been for some time – an issue that for Mrs May is all about her name in history, how she will be recorded.

    I regard her as someone of only modest intelligence, of very limited imagination, with little understanding of business or economics or the realities of trade, and even less appreciation of the value of our democratic traditions, culture or structures. She appears to be incapable of building good teams or paying attention to any other than her own views. The only person she seems to be able to take into her confidence is herself, although possibly her husband gets a word in sometimes; whether she even takes any notice of him is another matter.

    She is also a Remainer, and instinctively has worked with that object in mind – to remain, somehow or other – throughout this process.

    I find it hard to think of anyone on the Conservative side less suited to the role she currently occupies, less able to deliver the great task she was set, and less possessed of the qualities of leading our nation in this process of renewal and independence.

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

      Nicholas Odoni

      Totally correct on all points

  64. Anthony Bright-Paul
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    The truth is that Theresa May has single highhandedly frustrated Brexit. We should have been out on March 29th, but she asked for an extension. Why? For no good reason. So she is a Remainer, and what she wants to deliver is serfdom to the EU cooked up to look like Brexit. We have a golden opportunity to trade outside the EU and to buy foodstuffs free of EU tariffs. So we are fed lies by the Remainers. God alone knows why they would want to stay under the EU, unless in some way they are beholden to that organisation as paymaster. That is absurd. Happily her decision to frustrate Brexit is now being challenged in the Courts.

  65. Malcolm White
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Hopefully – though not expected – the House of Lords will take the proper amount of time to scrutinise the Cooper-Letwin Bill and consider not only the substance of it , but the precedents broken in order to get it to this stage and what that means for Parliament procedure. Since it is their apparent purpose to keep the Government and the HoC ‘honest’.

    If these usurpers get away with it, what’s to prevent this sort of shambles re-occurring in future?

    On the other hand, I note that the HoL on 14th January voted 319 to 152 to reject a no deal while expressing a regret that withdrawal from the EU on the terms of the government’s deal would damage the economic future prosperity, internal security and global influence of the UK. So I guess they’ll vote for this appalling motion.

  66. Billy Marlene
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Can anybody explain why the convicted perjuror Member for Peterborough was permitted to break her curfew and vote?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

      Why is Ms Onasanya still allowed to “serve” in the house? Doubtless she will soon be appearing on the BBC economics ‘expert’ or other expert like the convicted ex Mrs Chris Hulme, one Vicky Price.

  67. mac
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Your “Conservative” PM has given her party and the Brexit voting majority two fingers. Her contempt for Brexiteers and her party in general could not be more clearly on display. Now the only question is what the people who wanted Brexit are going to do about it.

  68. glen cullen
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    Can this be right; the Chancellor of the Exchequer Richard Hammond MP (last night on ITV Preston programme) purported to proclaim the virtues of current withdrawal agreement, a labour partnership to forward a customs union, a very long extension to avoid ‘no deal’ and a second referendum

    If his views are a collective view of the cabinet then this goes against the manifesto, the result of the referendum and the wishes of the majority of the voting people.

    I now believe that we do not have a working government nor one that has faith with the people

    • Turboterrier.
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      glen cullen

      I now believe that we do not have a working government nor one that has faith with the people

      It has never ever worked especially over the referendum to leave. Total whitewash.

  69. JoolsB
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    The mess we are in and the betrayal of Brexit we are about to see is down to one person and one person only and that person is Theresa May. But the majority of Tory MPs must also take their share of the blame for choosing her in the first place and then backing her in the confidence vote.

    The majority of Tory voters and according to Sky News this morning, the majority of leave voters now want to go out on WTO terms and yet she chooses to totally ignore them and get into bed with Corbyn instead. We also hear she doesn’t want to upset the union meaning NI and Scotland. What about England which overwhelmingly voted Leave? It is as usual their wishes are to be ignored. Maybe you should remind your completely useless leader John, who is in the process of destroying your party, just which part of this so called union she relies on for her votes.

  70. JoolsB
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    Slightly off topic, we hear this morning that extra police have been made available to protect MPs from the angry public. Meanwhile our young are being slaughtered on the streets on a daily basis and this useless Government and it’s worse than useless PM are doing nothing about it. Oh well, as long as the safety of those treacherous MPs is covered that’s alright then!

  71. Pete Else
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

    I simply cannot imagine acting the way MP’s have done. My sense of shame and guilt would prevent me, and most normal people, being so blatantly two faced and corrupt. These people stood for election on their promise to uphold the Brexit decision. What do we see now? A disgusting exhibition of lying, obstruction, trickery and bad faith. It is a rerun of the Greek government’s betrayal of their promises. The only good thing about this foul display is that it shows us all just what a sham British democracy really is and just who the political class regard as their boss.

  72. MickN
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Let me see – so an MP who is only not sitting in jail because she is tagged and “out on licence” has a vote and her vote is enough to do down the votes of 17.4 million people.
    There are banana republics in the world with a fairer more democratic system than we have here.
    Latest project fear report this morning says that 10,000 police officers are standing by to be deployed in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
    As it looks as if the elites will get their way and it won’t happen perhaps a small percentage of them could be deployed to fight knife crime instead.

  73. Rien Huizer
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,

    I still do not see how Labour’s genuine requirements (a brexit diametrically opposed to Minford’s) can be reconciled with the PM’s survival plans.

    My suggestion: try no deal and if you like it, even on the basis as envisaged by the EU (a strict no deal), stay out. If you do not, reapply and reenter in about two-three years.

    • Steve
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

      Rien Huizer

      Of course, you realise that a strict no deal would require no EU fishing vessels in UK territorial waters, and many other things including a potato shortage in Ireland – yes the UK exports massive amounts of spuds to the EU kingdom of Ireland.

      Re Labour and PM: you’re correct in that statement. I did wonder about that myself. However I came to the conclusion it’s simply so she can go to her bosses in the EU and tell them she has the numbers. Truly the actions of a despot.

      • Rien Huizer
        Posted April 6, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

        @ Steve

        These are minor problems but the mani benefit would be to have no more brexit distraction. Mrs May has, to the best of my knowledge, no “bosses” in Brussels and no (more) friends either. The UK has given notice to leave, polite response is “what a pity” and then back to business, which is in tghis case: go ahead and leave pse. You appear to be a vistim of brexiteer propaganda that the EU wants (antropomorphism) the UK to stay. That may have been the case a few years ago, but not now. Try better news media..

  74. AndyC
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    The government is hiding behind all these traitors’ votes. No legislation becomes law without the support of the government. Were the Prime Minister to recommend that the Queen refuse royal assent to a bill, then the monarch would surely have to take that advice. But we’ve already seen that the government is perfectly content for British law to be rewritten unilaterally over dinner in Brussels. No doubt that will happen again when May returns to receive her next set of orders next week.

    No cabinet resignations I see. Traitors all.

  75. bigneil
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Is she showing us the perfect example of “a mad woman” – or is it “power-crazed”.

  76. Adam
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Outage is Overdue.

  77. Gareth Warren
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    We are told we risk getting into a customs union if we do not accept the WA.

    Yet the truth is no option but no deal can exclude the WA.

    With that in mind, and seeing its poor support by leavers and remainers its easy to choose the next option, one where we trade with the EU under WTO deals with the ever present risk of tariffs being reciprocated and a country like the US striking a trade deal and thus a trade advantage. The EU’s hand long term is very weak. Yet everyone acts as though we can have a customs union and no WA, they should be clear with the electorate for their support for thE WA.

    Lastly this issue has been ever beset by lies, or as Trump would call it fake news. The latest one from remainers is that this is a small issue for the nation and will be quickly forgotten. If that Doncaster poll is even remotely reliable then there is an existential threat to conservatives and labour.

    I’m still on the fence, whoever achieves brexit will get my thanks, but the only party I would vote for until we achieved brexit would be the brexit party or UKIP, even at the risk of letting Corbyn in. When I think about the taxes I pay today just for the EU I’m working two weeks a year for nothing of worth.

  78. Everhopeful
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:41 am | Permalink

    Why did no MP shout “Object” yesterday re Cooper/Letwin bill?

    Reply Why? It had time for debate and votes.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

      Ah..sorry. Had tried to read up on Private Member Bills. Thought they could be stopped by an objection.

  79. Brigham
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    Why oh why, didn’t you get rid of May when you had the chance. The fact that you didn’t shows how gullible our ruling classes are. P***ups and breweries spring to mind.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

      Why indeed, 200 Tory MP fools and Traitors had confidence in her. All deserve to be kicked out.

  80. MickN
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Please stand firm Sir. It is obvious that Mrs May talking to Corbyn is to blackmail those of you that are not voting for her deal to back it or get a Corbyn one.
    She is being too clever by half and it WILL bite her in the backside.
    Can you imagine the two of them on the steps of No 10 saying how they have reached a compromise agreement and then having to try and sell it to their own parties and then the EU?
    Ain’t gonna happen!!

  81. Peter Parsons
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    “with nothing offered to us who wanted out”

    You mean like not being part of the Schengen area, not being part of the Economic and Monetary Union, not being part of the Banking union, not being part of the Charter on Fundamental Human Rights, having opt outs on Justice and Home Affairs, and getting a rebate.

  82. Mick
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    How can Fiona Onasanya have voted last night when she was convicted and jailed for speeding , what’s the bet labour were behind her getting into Parliament to cast a vote which to joe public she shouldn’t have the right, which without her vote would have been a tie again and wouldn’t have past , these sort of antics by the politicians is what is really p€$$€¥£ people off because of the constant tactics to thwart Brexit

  83. wab
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    In yesterday’s match we had Parliamentary democracy 1, Little Englanders and Foreign Oligarchs 0. The season is far from over, though. The Little Englanders and Foreign Oligarchs might still take the crown.

    • Edward2
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

      I’m not sure where you get the “little englanders” insult from wab.
      Leave supporters want the freedom to trade with the whole world on minimal tariffs or no tariffs.
      The EU is fast becoming a protectionist bloc.

      • hans christian ivers
        Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

        Edward 2
        How can you be a protectionist bloc , when 80% of UK trade is tariff free and we are part of the largest free trading block in the world?

        • Edward2
          Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

          Because the EU has tariffs which stop free competition from non EU nations on things like food farm produce meat fish etc
          CAP and CFP costs UK families £20 per week in unnecessarily high food prices.
          Restrictions on coffee imports for example.
          It is not a free trade area.
          Members pay billions a year.
          Costs nothing to trade with non EU nations.

    • I Turner
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

      “In yesterday’s match we had Parliamentary democracy 1, Little Englanders and Foreign Oligarchs 0. The season is far from over, though. The Little Englanders and Foreign Oligarchs might still take the crown.”

      The only Foreign Oligarchs that are involved in this matter are those in Brussels, the ultimate Bureaucratic Oligarchy. The only ‘elected’ officials there are the MEPs – who cannot initiate or (ultimately) stop any European legislation – so are simply tokens of Democracy…

      As for the “Englanders” (little or otherwise) – each one has a vote – and unlike in Brussels, those votes will certainly count when the time comes.

  84. rose
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Was the decisive one the rogue Speaker or the woman in the prison tag?

    This was rammed though without due process to overturn a properly arranged and held referendum. The Lords should guard our constitution and throw this out, but they won’t, as they have become a somewhat tyrannical and intolerant place since being nominated by human beings instead of the Almighty. One can see this from the way the few democrats in there are received, and the way in which several of these Lords were prevented from speaking.

    • rose
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:38 am | Permalink

      through not though.

  85. Shieldsman
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    Funny, MP’s are doing their little nuts (heads) to outlaw NO DEAL, whilst the EU is saying it has become the most likely result.
    If the 27 refuse to extend Article 50 again, what then? NO DEAL BECOMES THE DEFAULT REGARDLESS.

  86. Atlas
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:42 am | Permalink

    Hmm, If you saw this on ‘Yes Minister’ you would not have believed it.

    Well Sir J., apart from supporting the Brexit Party, what is there for us, the electorate, to do to show our displeasure in the face of the actions of the Remoaners?

  87. rose
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    We are now being told the PM is behaving as she is because the Cabinet Secretary has convinced her the Union would be in danger if we left according to the law. How can this be? If either of them had a shred of feeling for the Union they would not have got involved with the Northern Irish Protocol, otherwise known as the Backstab.

  88. miami.mode
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Have just seen Andrew Neil on Politics Live and he has just more or less proved to Ken Clarke and Mary Creagh that they are both wrong on so many facts as they see them.

    What an excellent interviewer he is and what nonsense so many of our MPs talk about Brexit when our country depends on the result.

  89. Mark
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    The EU have said that the WA would be the required starting point before any further talks can proceed. They seem to think that if we leave without signing it we will crawl back and bow down to them and sign it. Since it is evident that Parliament will not sign the deal now, surely the best tactic for the EU is to throw us out without a deal? Macron should be encouraged to veto our continued presence.

  90. Bryan Harris
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Anarchy

    Why is the Commons so helpless – Why can’t some one, some group, put an end to this tyranny?

    Surely there are protocols to protect us people against a government that has gone off the rails?

  91. Roy Grainger
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    What slightly concerns me is not the Corbyn customs plan as such but rather that the word “permanent” keeps getting attached to it, implying that Corbyn wants it defined in an international treaty with no exit clause thus binding the hands of all future governments. Of course May will welcome the idea as it leaves us in the EU in perpetuity, a useful backup if Hammond’s second referendum plan somehow fails.

  92. am
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    An evenly split commons is your title but you could have added an unevenly split tory party in the commons and in the country.

  93. robert lewy
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Every one should read Martin Howe’s article of 31st March 2019 on the insidious nature of the Political Declaration which would land us in a Customs Union or no exit from the Backstop for eternity.

    See “Lawyers for Britain web-site”.

  94. Ian Pennell
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John Redwood,

    We now have a situation whereby Sir Oliver Letwin and Yvette Cooper have passed a Bill to allow Parliament to legally require Theresa May to delay Brexit to a date of their choosing: This has passed both hurdles in the House of Commons and tomorrow it will (almost certainly) be approved by the Remainer House of Lords: I did not think it possible that back-bench MPs could table- and get passed- Bills legally binding on the Government, but there you are! The Majority of MPs seem to be doing everything possible to sabotage Brexit. They are succeeding!

    All this is happening whilst Theresa May capitulates and agrees to talks with Jeremy Corbyn on watering down Brexit (Labour want a Customs Union non- Brexit). The Conservatives are in free-fall in the polls.

    Surely the time has come for you and your colleagues to do everything possible to bring down Theresa May ASAP? You need to ruthlessly move to clear out the Augean stables through a “Vote of No Confidence” (persuade Jeremy Corbyn to go for one), then going for a General Election with a true Leader and Brexiteer to get a mandate to save Brexit. It’s the only way now to do right by those 17.4 million voters who voted “Leave” in 2016.

    As I said earlier this week- surgery to remove cancer has risks, but if nothing is done the person concerned can later die. The Conservative Party is now in dire need of its own surgery to cut out a longer term threat to it: That is replacement of the Leadership by a true Brexiteer to save the Conservative Party from a (later) 1997- style experience! An Election should then follow as that is the only way to return a Brexit- supporting majority to ensure that Brexit is delivered properly.

    Ian Pennell

  95. Norman
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    TRUST is such a precious thing – like freedom itself, once it is gone, it is gone forever. The decline that led to this has been going on for decades, and is now accelerating. Very sad.

  96. Alistair King
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    What good are speeches when May just ignores them?

    The party appointed her as leader despite her abysmal record as home secretary and despite her campaigning for Remain. Since then the party has failed to remove her, failed to reign in her rogue behaviour, failed to prevent her destruction of our constitution, the tory Party and democracy itself. May appears to have a scorched earth policy being prepared to burn down everything rather than give up her WA. And she appears to be getting away with it.

    If the party can’t handle this then it is not any more fit for government than Labour.

  97. Alan Joyce
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    David Cameron promised a referendum ostensibly to protect the Conservative Party from the threat of a Nigel Farage led UKIP and it was successful. In the 2015 General Election UKIP polled nearly 13% of the total vote. Following the referendum in 2016 and at the subsequent General Election in 2017, UKIP had less than 2% of the total vote.

    One is tempted to hope that the new Nigel Farage led Brexit Party has a similar effect on Conservative fortunes, if only to teach them a lesson. If it does Conservatives will have no one else to blame but their own colleagues.

  98. Fred H
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, May (oops) I suggest you have cross Tory divisions consultation and identify those who wish No Deal. Then agree to threaten PM, and mean it, to break out and become a new party Real Conservatives. The new party would clearly support conservative polices, and support a sort of coalition government. What’s not to like?

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      What an excellent name, Fred H. Says on the tin what it does. A landslide victory in an election could be possible and I am sure Farage would be willing to work with such a Party. He knows that this would be an essential move if the Left are to be beaten. He has far more political nous than so many Tories who consider grassroots Conservatives beneath them. That Grieve videoclip is still going round in my head. Thank you guido, that was better than a party political broadcast (but not for the Cons Party).

  99. ian stafford
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    it is surely time for the leavers to retaliate in Parliament with their own Bills and motions. Historically the position was that a Bill could not be amended or repealed in the same session but the Interpretation Act 1978 has overturned that rule. For too long the retainers have occupied time and territory in the House. Leavers must be more active than simply responding with objections to the lead the remainers are taking.

  100. agricola
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

    So this farce wanders on totally rudderless. It began when you voted in T May as PM. A compromise safe pair of hands decision which was no way to find a leader. She had already failed in the Home Office.

    You then handed her the task of implementing the direction received from the electorate to leave the EU. Casually overlooking her remain credentials you gave her a remain team of civil servants. She ring fenced all from any political input, resulting in the loss of two brexit secretaries in the process. Did this not ring bells. Why did her party not demand monthly progress reports. Up to Chequers why was she allowed to lie to the Commons and country at large. After Chequers the resignation of a Foreign Secretary should have rung alarm bell, but no , you let her trundle on until her toxic WA became public knowledge. Throw in an ill conceived GE, short of poisoning the Downing Street cat, how much more damage could she do.

    She now sees an alliance of conveniece with a rabid marxist as the only route to acceptance of her WA. Rest assured she has destroyed the conservative party in the country at large. She has forced our already divided Parliament to find their own selfish ways of destroying democracy and our already over stretched police force have to prepare for civil unrest. She has a lot to answer for.

    The Brexit Party is sensibly keeping its powder dry until the political corpses line the battlefield. My MP who remains on tbe front bench will be one them. He and inumerable others will arrive at the next GE with no credibility whatever. Sad because in all other respects he was shaping into a good MP.

    You have had ample opportunity for the grey suits to rid yourselves of this toxic priestess. Now through lack of resolve you as a party have failed. You will shortly arrive at the GE till and be forced to pay the price and walk away with nothing.

    Being an optimist, I hope that a totally disillusioned EU will say enough is enough and kick the UK out on 12 April. Being a realist I think the EU will allow even more time for the UK to self destruct.

  101. Fred H
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    Has an irate builder/plumber had his/her revenge? Water Leak causes Commons sitting to be abandoned for the day. Anybody got a hammer drill they can use on the walls?

  102. Captain Peacock
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    Lets not forget the Tory party got rid of Margaret Thatcher yet this dreadful May still remains as PM.

    • Chris
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      They got rid of her because she was standing up for the UK having realised the apparently malign nature of the EU Grand Project and the dangers to the future of the UK.

  103. outsider
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John, I much admired your speech on the “emergency” Bill.
    Giving only one day to pass a highly contentious, 312-311 Bill seems to open the way to a new digital-age system of legislation. A strong government can replace complex portmanteau departmental Bills by instant single-issue ones that respond to some deplorable event, perceived evil, scandal or social media storm, most often by banning something.
    No more cries of “what is the Government doing about …”, when an “urgent” Bill can be drawn up overnight and passed the next day in the teeth of Opposition objections. If there is some real or spurious deadline coming up, as is so often the case, so much the more plausible.

    This Government has neither the wit nor the strength to exploit these possibilities. In other, very possible, hands, the potential looks pretty sinister.

  104. Steve Pitts
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

    Mrs May will offer her deal once more or a deal arranged with the SNP and Labour keeping us in a permanent customs union and giving the welsh assembly and scottish parliament a veto on any changes to this deal in the future. These will be the options given apparentlty, but without the DUP her deal cannot pass can it? Labour SNP welsh nats and a few tories would vote that deal through if needed apparently

  105. BCL
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Not an original thought I know but why does the 48% that lost have to be considered. Had the leave vote been 48% would the remainers now be saying they must respect the views of the 48% and renegotiate a soft remain. I doubt it!

  106. Chris
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

    Christopher Hope (D Tel) retweeted this from Jack Maidment:

    “New: Downing Street suggests any compromise deal/indicative votes will not have to be done before the EU summit next week.

    Seems the Govt feels it will just need to have agreed a plan to break the impasse to show EU there is a “clear path through” to get a new extension date”.

    It seems the EU will be very accommodating if the goal is postponing the departure date, which I suspect they think will be one step towards us eventually remaining in the EU.

  107. margaret howard
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    JR

    “There is no good reason for a delay.”

    Yes there is. Only a quarter of the UK population voted to leave the EU – 50 million did not or had no voice. The young are the very ones who will have to suffer the consequences.

    Our first past the post system is not fit for purpose in a general election let alone for a once in a lifetime referendum.

    EXIT BREXIT!

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

      Joining Andy’s campaign for votes for babies Margaret ? However you calculate your figures for what percentage voted Leave the simple fact is an even lower percentage voted Remain.

    • Edward2
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      Only 36% of youngsters eligible to vote actually bothered to get out of bed and vote.
      Not my fault.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 11:17 pm | Permalink

      All votes are equal but some are more equal than others, eh?

  108. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

    The really disgraceful performance yesterday was Bercow’s. Yvette Cooper’s Bill was forced through in a single day (all three readings) in order to meet a deadline imposed by a foreign power. It is no business of a neutral Speaker to act in accordance with the wishes of a foreign power. As I write, Eurosceptic peers in the Lords are trying to talk the Bill out with a filibuster. Good luck to them; it is a fate that the Bill richly deserves.

    Were it down to me, I would write a letter to the EC in such a manner that my request for an extension to Article 50 was bound to be turned down. Has Mrs May got no pride? Just fancy – a Prime Minister obliged to do something in response to a backbencher’s Bill that has passed by a single vote!

    I’m still reasonably confident that the May-Corbyn talks will not result in passage of the draft Withdrawal Agreement. If she doesn’t agree to a Customs Union, she won’t get Labour votes. If she does agree to a Customs Union, she will lose most of the Conservative Eurosceptics who voted for her agreement at the third time of asking.

    We have to be ready for a long, hot summer and a General election in the Autumn. Deselection of pro-European Conservative MPs will hopefully continue apace. A Brexiteers’ manifesto must be prepared to gain the maximum possible support. And whatever the Party labels carried by individual candidates, it must be Brexiteers vs the rest.

    Let us hope instead that Juncker and/or Macron throw us out of the EU.

  109. rose
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

    The media are telling us the Lords are filibustering, but that is not the impression I have. The Thatcher Cabinet is giving a good account of itself, much sounder in its dotage than the May Cabinet in its prime. Lord True is also doing very well, and Lady Deech. So are many others.

    How can they call speeches pointing out the folly of smashing up our constitution and democracy filibustering? How can it be filibustering to urge the Lords to perform its function and properly scrutinise what the Commons has rammed through in a day? Why is standing up for the majority of the electorate which is being ridden over roughshod, filibustering? The main point which the majority of the Lords are trying to suppress is that for freedom to survive, people must be allowed to be heard; that when something very important is being done, then it is all the more important to observe the proper procedures.

  110. Roy Grainger
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Gove said that this Parliament would revoke A50 rather than allow No Deal. Fine. Bring it on. Let’s see that list of MPs who vote that way, a handy guide for the next general election. Resubmitting A50 afterwards would get us out in 2 years, faster than with the May/Corbyn deal.

    • rose
      Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

      There was never any need to use A 50. all we need to do is repeal the 1972 Act and send a letter.

  111. Prigger
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

    I usually watch RT to get an alternative view on politics. It’s got boring now and is same same same. They claim the Russian Parliament is democratic . But we all know it doesn’t matter about a X on a vote paper. President Putin asks, was it a soft X or a hard X? He then just ignores it however soft or hard it was.Not like here.

  112. Grant
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

    Yes and after we’ve left we should be successful too after about forty years because its going to take that amount of time to get back to where we were in 1970..at least

  113. Original Richard
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

    It was fascinating to watch Mr. Kenneth Clarke, MP interviewed by Andrew Neil on BBC Politics Live today demonstrating that he had no idea how belonging to the EU’s customs Union but without being a member of the EU would leave us totally exposed to asymmetric tariffs and still seemed to believe that as a non-EU member we would still have a say and a veto in any future EU trade deals.

    • Rb
      Posted April 5, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      without being a member of the EU would leave us totally exposed to asymmetric tariffs and still seemed to believe that as a non-EU member we would still have a say and a veto in any future EU trade deals.

      >
      They didnt tell him that at the Bilderburgers then? Maybe Ken may one day wake up and realize he has been had?

  114. javelin
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

    A poll in the Daily Mail says everywhere apart fro London and Scotland want to remain in the EU. Everybody else wants to leave a No deal.

    So are the Conservative Party hoping to get back into Government by winning seats in London and Scotland ?

    What is May doing to the Conservatives?

    I predict a massive rise for UKIP, Brexit and the English Democrats.

  115. Henry M
    Posted April 4, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    Leavers like myself who cared about Brexit being delivered have watched in horror and debated on social media. We have endured 3 years of insults, ad hominems and sheer nastiness from Remain-zealots.

    (on Twitter these hardline Remainers tend to put the #FBPE hashtag on their handle, seem to live in an echo chamber where they dehumanize Leave voters, dismissing them as idiots, racists and liars)

    At the same time as putting up with this childishness from Remainers, it has been excruciating to watch Mrs May give way on every issue, crucially the no deal option, which would have been a good negotiating stance and would have got us a better deal. Leavers have endured the gradual erosion of all the promises, the complete contempt for democracy, and now, when we should be out already, appallingly smug MPs take away every last bit of meaning from our votes in 2016.

    Have you any idea how this feels for so many Leavers? How angry they already are at this contempt from our politicians? And every day brings news of more disappointment, further failures from Mrs May..

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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