The media and just leaving the EU – please use neutral language

My criticism of much mainstream media journalism about just leaving the EU is the lack of neutrality or objectivity in the reporting.

Many of them just assert leaving without a deal is “falling off a cliff edge” or will result in “cataclysm, or disaster”. This is the extreme language of some Remain MPs.

A neutral commentator should use neutral language to describe such an exit .  “Just leaving the EU without signing the Withdrawal Agreement”  would do it.

They could then expand on how the two sides view that –

“Remain thinks this would be like falling off a cliff. They think it would  be disastrous for the UK economy. They think the UK does owe more money to the EU and has to settle the bill.  Leave on the other hand think it means quickly achieving their aims of taking back control of our laws, our borders and our money. They say it  would enable the government to boost the UK economy by spending  the money saved from EU contributions  on improved public services and tax cuts at home ”

That is as far as a reporter might wish to go. A commentator might go on to explain why he or she favoured the Remain or the Leave view, placing more information and criticism on the table. Where the media is using so called experts it would be helpful for them to reveal whether they are Leave voting or Remain voting experts, given the intensity of feeling on this issue.

 

 

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212 Comments

  1. Peter Wood
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    Not just the media, your own ministers use the same terms!

    The fact is Brexiteers stopped working for Brexit after the referendum, we all thought it was a done deal. Even after the madness of the Chequers Deal was exposed, thee was hardly a word from the Brexit camp. We now have to fight the same battle over again thanks to a Conservative Parliamentary Party led by a Remainer, who is doing her best to keep us in the EU, and that seem not to have the courage /competence to remove the PM.

    • Julie Dyson
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:36 am | Permalink

      Honestly, Peter, it seems to me that Brexiteers lost the argument immediately following the referendum because they were not forceful enough in their media arguments about why Leavers wanted to leave (which is why many of us have the impression that they “stopped working for Brexit” around that time, as you say). They were too complacent, secure in the decision taken by the majority, and were not therefore prepared for the betrayal. The louder, more strident, more hateful arguments won the day, and the majority cause was lost.

      We grievously underestimated just what an uphill battle it would be, with the establishment, big business and media lackeys holding the heights.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

        Uphill battle due to Tory Brexiteers complacency maybe, but the cause is far from lost. There might yet be a chance for the people to give their judgement upon the ruling classes from Labour, the Tories, and the Lib Dems in the shape of the elections to the EU parliament. If they get trounced or even wiped out, it will concentrate their minds wonderfully.

        But why wait til then, and risk anihilation when the solution to this problem is all so easy. May is the single biggest impediment to the long-term peace and harmony of this nation. She could have delivered Brexit but chose by her prerogative to cheat us.

        Is misplaced internal Tory loyalty to an errant, discredited and highly unpopular so-called ‘leader’ so great that it overrides the good of everything else?

        • Tad Davison
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

          According to a caller to Nigel Farage’s show on LBC this morning, the Grand National is going to be re-run. Apparently, all those who lost didn’t like the result.

          • Paul Johnson
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

            Really? Did Tiger Roll’s trainer lie about his tactics?

          • Hope
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

            JR, lawyers for Britain pay tribute to you and those who vote down May’s servitude plan. May’s servitude plan leads legally to a,customs union by disguise which defeats all benefits from leaving the EU. May has betrayed our union and national interest. Her repeated lies do not change that position. I strongly urge you and other leave MP read this article as a matter of urgency and vital importance.

            Davis, Raab and Johnson need to as well. It is clear even if May is replaced after her servitude plan is agreed there is no escape from any potential ‘super leader’. Hence why she offered the same! She is a traitor her job would be done. The consequences for doing so would be hugely damaging for the UK. Traitor May would be gone and leavers and its leader taking the blame.

            May has betrayed the nation and its people. Your party must get rid of her. If there is an extension it is better than her servitude plan to imprison our nation without escape. The only means would be to return as a defeated nation on worse terms than now.

            Tory associations need to stop all support immediately. May is not going to support any of you against remainer MPs that should be obvious to you by now. She is leaving and does not care about the Tory party. Look at the bracelet she wears on her wrist and Marxist party she is willing to put in government by association or by themselves.

            https://lawyersforbritain.org/why-brexiteers-right-to-reject-theresa-mays-deal

          • M Davis
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

            … Patriots should vote down Theresa May’s deal – it is the worst for the country of all the alternatives …

            Taken from:

            https://lawyersforbritain.org/why-brexiteers-right-to-reject-theresa-mays-deal

      • NickC
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

        Julie Dyson, It was not complacency, it was trust. Trust that all parties and politicians would accept the result, and implement it, even if they disagreed with the result. As previous referendums had been implemented.

        • Tad Davison
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

          Exactly! It is called good faith, and when politicians cannot show good faith towards the people they serve, especially when they agreed the outcome of a referendum would be abided by, then those politicians who broke that faith have no right to stay in post.

          They should live or die by the mantra ‘my word is my bond’ not manufacture by sleight of hand or chicanery, ways to get out of their obligations.

          Just count the numbers of those who advocate ‘remain’ to see what a truly rotten parliament the UK has at this time. The word ‘honour’ seems to have disappeared from the political lexicon.

          Tad

      • TrueBrit
        Posted April 8, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

        Farage saying “job done” and jumping ship didn’t help but I expect too many placed their trust in government expecting it to respect the promises made during the referendum campaign.

        Now those people are beginning to understand that government ministers, MPs and Civil Servants for the most part lied and have continued to lie. They will never be trusted again.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

      Very close to the truth in all respects. As in the last paragraph of my letter printed in the Maidenhead Advertiser this week:

      “Over the past two and half years we have witnessed the extraordinary spectacle of a government which never attempts to refute attacks upon its central official policy, and in fact sometimes appears to be the original source of scare stories and other fallacious criticisms.”

      Suspicions that she was playing for the other side emerged at an early stage, but even when it had become so obvious that it could no longer be easily dismissed as the product of paranoia the pro-Brexit minority of Tory MPs were too loyal to do anything about it until it was too late.

      • NickC
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

        Sad to say, Denis, you are correct. Unfortunately there has been far too much party tribalism from both politicians and voters, though it is changing now as the duplicity of May and Corbyn becomes ever more apparent.

        • Hope
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

          Dennis itmismnow clear and in the open by legal analysis lawyers for Britain that her servitude plan is a trap to imprison our county to the EU while using alternative names to deceive the public and MPs. Read the article,dated,31/03/2019.

          May now convinced she will win by having Corbyn on board. Her servitude plan already, including the Political Declaration which does have some legal consequences, will force the UK to remain in the customs union not free trade agreement per article 23. So there is no difference between Corbyn and her being in the customs union it is a matter of terminology and names not to give the game away to the public that they were betrayed. May is convinced Corbyn numbers will defeat leave MPs and the DUP who are against her servitude plan.

          https://lawyersforbritain.org/why-brexiteers-right-to-reject-theresa-mays-deal

          • Hope
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

            Tory leave MPs must oust her now to prevent her betrayal becoming complete through hermservitude plan of the nation. May is a traitor who has collided with the EU to agree this cunning plan to defeat leaving the EU and deterring other countries, not states as they like to call them, from leaving.

            EU countries not states are in the EU. Do not let politicos use terminology to brainwash and give up your independent free democratic nation to become a meaningless vassal state.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink

      the BBC would never explain the customs union as a protectionist racket as explained by Liam Halligan in the Sunday Telegraph

      • sm
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

        I believe I’m correct in saying that if you receive remuneration in any form from the EU, you may not criticise the institution on penalty of payment being stopped?

        Since the BBC does receive an EU subsidy, it will obviously do its best to reduce criticism, as far as is possible within its supposedly neutral remit.

        • margaret howard
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

          sm

          The BBC received £2m EU money in the last 3 years. It received the cash under the European Union framework programme, to fund its research and development arm which is working on projects such as 3D broadcasting and ultra-high definition filming.

          Not even enough to pay for its paper clips.

          • Edward2
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

            Yet if it was a few million exrea for homeless people you would be out there marching.

          • M Davis
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

            You missed sm’s point, Margaret that, you may not criticise the EU institution on penalty of payment being stopped!

          • Al
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

            That is incorrect. The BBC’s own figures on their website state that it received the following in 2014-15:
            – BBC Media Action received £2.3M – 5% of its funding.
            – R&D grant of £500,000
            – And that a number of independant production companies producing shows for the BBC recieved 6% of their budget from EU grants.

            The same BBC figures show that this is regular income – e.g. The Spectator and other sources mention that BBC Media Action got £4M in 2012.

          • margaret howard
            Posted April 8, 2019 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

            Al

            “The Spectator and other sources mention that BBC Media Action got £4M in 2012.”

            Would be interesting to know where the Speccie get their finances from. Used to be an interesting, intelligent magazine that has now been turned into a right wing rag.

          • APL
            Posted April 8, 2019 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

            margaret howard: “Not even enough to pay for its paper clips.”

            That’s a start Margaret, now you can tell us where the rest of the money the UK as a net contributor to the EU, gets back from the EU goes.

            According to government figures, the UK paid £13bn pounds to the EU in 2017, so you’ve got some way to go to make up the difference between paperclips and £13bn.

      • Stred
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

        Liam explains that food and clothing prices would fall if we left the customs union in his article. Mrs Balls was claiming that they would rise 10% when arguing for her bill to prevent leaving. The ignorance of some MPs is beyond belief.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

        Also in The Telegraph, Charles Moore poses the question, should we withold our licence fee money. He challenged the recently installed chairperson of Question Time, Fiona Bruce, as to why Brexit supporters are consistently under-represented, often by a ratio of 4 or 5 to 1.

        The BBC knows it doesn’t even have to try to be balanced. It gets its money on pain of imprisonment regardless of its stance or accuracy. I am all for it competing on a level playing field in an open market as must other broadcasters. But that would never do for an outmoded 1930s model that haughtily looks down its nose and thinks itself superior to everyone else.

    • Posted April 8, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

      And WHY won’t they ‘remove her’? Surely there must be some protocol or procedure whereby a PM who is causing damage can be removed. If not – set a precedent!

      She is making all her colleagues look foolish, or worse.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted April 9, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

      “Not just the media, your own ministers use the same terms! ”

      Actually, having listened carefully to presenters and correspondents from various “MSM” news outlets over several hours, I didn’t once hear a presenter/correspondent initiate the use of such terms (it only occured when explicitly quoting someone, usually the interviewee or a close colleague), such language was the exclusive preserve of those bought on to express an opinion (and be challenged on that opinion) such as politicians.

  2. Spratt
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    It would also help if ‘experts’ and commentators were introduced with a clear indication of their vested interest in these matters. For example, if they are a national of another EU country, are an EU pensioner or the spouse of one, have property in other EU countries, receive EU subsidies on their estates. Or all of the above….

    • Dame Rita Webb
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      It would also help if MPs did the same too. At the moment there are two Conservative remainer MPs who come to mind. One is a dual French national and the other is a recipient of the Légion d’honneur .

    • George Dunnett
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

      Or in the case of young Dominic Grieve, received the Legion d’Honour from France, without actually having run up a mine filled beach, in northern France and simultaneously being fired upon from heavily fortified German machine gun positions on a June morning. Or something similar!!

      • Andy
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:46 am | Permalink

        Yes well as Queen Elizabeth I, of glorious memory, remarked when she noticed a courtier wearing a foreign decoration, ‘my dogs wear my collars’.

        • Tad Davison
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

          That’s a gem!

          Studying the wording and the phraseology, I refuse to believe this post is from the same Andy who graces these pages with interminable nonsense.

    • Pud
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      I agree with the principle but I fear it could be used to introduce more bias. For example, the BBC news website has described the ERG as right-wing, (a slur according to their left-wing bias), but Momentum are a “grassroots group supporting Corbyn”.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        That’s precisely how they do it Pud, and the annoying thing is, they get away with it.

        As for the ERG being right-wing, I could tell the BBC a thing or two about traditional Labour voters who expressed their opinions to me, and they are far more towards the right than most ERG members!

        They are coming to utterly renounce pro-EU neo-liberalism in the Blairite image, so Labour beware!

        Here’s an interesting little anecdote. Cambridge is a Lib Dem/Labour stronghold. The transient student vote goes either one way or the other depending which one tells the most credible lies at the time. A canvasser told me they are having trouble finding people from within the settled community to put up posters in their windows because they are so sick to death at the deceitful goings-on in Westminster regarding the betrayal of Brexit.

        The leaching away of core support should worry ALL major political parties, although it doesn’t worry me one iota!

  3. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Your majesty’s government, duly elected according to laws which you control for a 100%, has agreed a withdrawal agreement with the EU.

    Your duly elected parliament, according to laws over which you have full control, has decided that the UK will not leave without a deal.

    I cannot put this in more neutral terms. Can you?

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:09 am | Permalink

      Peter

      Fortunately that is not what it says in UK Law, yet !

      Likewise the EU accept that it has not been accepted by the UK yet !

      When it has we will let you know !

    • Stred
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:11 am | Permalink

      Our unelected civil servants, who are loyal to the EU, under a PM who is s Remainer and proven liar and chest, has agreed and signed an agreement written by the EU unelected civil servants, as agreed between the UK PM and the German chancellor. This agreement was analysed by lawyers and civil servants loyal to the UK and found to be atrocious and akin to a treaty unfairly foisted on a country defeated in war. It has been rejected in the UK parliament three times but the PM is still trying to blackmail MPs into approving it by threatening something worse.
      Do you want half the population of the UK boycotting Dutch produce by writing biased threats?

      • DaveM
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

        May has to get her deal through. It’s been designed by her EU masters to facilitate an easy re-join. If she doesn’t get it through:

        A. The U.K. will drift further from the EU.
        B. Without our cash there won’t be an EU to rejoin.

        She’s working for the EU globalists and ignoring anyone and anything that doesn’t agree with her agenda. She’s clearly got no idea of the febrile atmosphere she’s created outside of her tiny bubble. She is going to precipitate the destruction of the Conservative party as we know it and potentially something much worse.

        • TooleyStu
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

          DaveM
          That is the most succinct and accurate account I have read for a while.

          1/ EU written agreement whose orig text was (allegedly) Germanic.
          2/ Easy re-join strategy.
          3/ May deal ties UK to EU.
          4/ Shores up EU till our eventual re assimilation.
          5/ The paymasters are not bothered about losing a ‘party’.

          TooleyStu

      • margaret howard
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

        Stred

        “Do you want half the population of the UK boycotting Dutch produce by writing biased threats?”

        No danger of that happening. When it comes to personal sacrifices, they won’t want to give up their breakfast bacon.

        • Edward2
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

          There are loads of alternative purchases Margaret.
          You need to read up on purchasers, brands and their popularity.

        • Fedupsoutherner
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

          The dutch aren’t the only producers of bacon. Your comments are not funny.

          • APL
            Posted April 8, 2019 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

            Fedupsoutherner: “Your comments are not funny.”

            Nor, as it happens, accurate.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

      The government can’t have agreed the WA because due to a legal-challenge by Gina Miller they ceded that right to Parliament in a meaningful vote. They have merely proposed a WA which has proved to be unacceptable to a massive majority in Parliament. On the other hand by invoking A50 Parliament HAS already agreed no deal is the default outcome if no other deal is found – the government, if they so wished, could make that happen with no further parliamentary involvement.

      So, you have things completely wrong.

      Whatever has really happened is the EU have overplayed their hand, a few words in the WA would fix everything but they are pretending it can’t be changed.

    • Mark B
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

      PvL

      Do you accept that EU Treaty Laws are superior to UK National Laws ? If so, then you must accept that the EU Treaty on the Functioning of the EU (Lisbon), which the UK is still apart and a full contracting party, can Leave either after agreeing and signing a WA or, after two years from notifying its intention to Leave the EU, as per Section 3 of Article 50 of the aforementioned treaty.

      Parliament can legislate for the sun not to rise in the morning and make it illegal for it to do so. But it has no power to prevent it. So, if the EU decide the UK will no longer be allowed to have extension after extension and is told that shall be Leaving on a certain date, what will the UK Parliament do then ?

      The only course open to it would be to revoke Article 50, which would be a massive betrayal of the British electorate and would be roundly condemned internationally. UK Government would never ever have the moral high ground to criticise even the worst regimes.

    • Oggy
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:13 am | Permalink

      Peter, the Government has not agreed anything such thing, it has rejected the Withdrawal agreement 3 times, the only person to agree to it was Mrs May.

      The Government was elected on a manifesto to leave the EU, single market and customs union, the Withdrawal deal does not do this – they lied.

      Parliament passed laws giving the decision to leave the EU to the people, since the result which they didn’t like, they have diluted and manipulated the result to now say we cannot leave without a deal – they lied again.

      Unless the Government falls we cannot change it until 2022 due to fixed Parliament act. Many here would welcome a General Election to ‘drain the swamp’ but many MP’s are terrified of that because they know their political careers will be finished.

    • Richard1
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

      Nothing is agreed until parliament votes for it – Thank God!

      • Leslie Singleton
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:59 am | Permalink

        Dear Richard–Not a great deal of comfort with this wretched Parliament??

    • Butties
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:16 am | Permalink

      You miss one vital point PVL. What HM government agreed with the EU was also to be agreed by Parliament and Parliament has rejected it on 3 seperate occassions. What about this do you not understand.

      The Mrs Balls et al Act has yet to come into force and in any event an Act of Parliament can be revoked at any time in the future (see the Withdrawl Act for example)

    • agricola
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

      For neutral read naive. PM, government, the two main political parties via their last manifestos, all after the result of the referendum was known, have all blatantly lied to the electorate. Come Chequers the truth dawned that the establishment above had conned us. The turmoil you are witnessing is the result of this confidence trick. When brexit is done and dusted the electorates cull of the current establishment will begin. Rest assured it will happen. We will not allow our hard won democracy to be taken from us. From where you sit, I imagine among the tranquil bulb fields, you cannot begin to understand the anger that rages in our country. Best keep out of it.

    • Steve
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

      PvL

      A PM with balls might have said to Tusk and his bunch of crooks :

      ‘ok here’s the deal, we leave on 29th march, you are welcome to ask us for trade with us on the 30th.’

      There, that wasn’t too difficult was it.

      BTW Peter, we don’t have control of our laws. We cannot change laws which we find obstructive – that privilege goes to those in Westminster who wish to keep us in the EU.

      • Andy
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

        Mrs May is not very good at her job. But fortunately she is not stupid.

        • Anonymous
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

          She’s very good at her job. Trounced all of us !

          • Tad Davison
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

            For ‘trounced’ read ‘hoodwinked’.

            A good confidence trickster relies upon one thing above all, the trust of their ‘mark’ hence the ‘confidence’ part of the description. Then, once the victim (in this case, the electorate) have swallowed the bull, the confidence trickster is safe to make their move.

            Compare May’s Lancaster House speech with her (the EU’s) Withdrawal Agreement to see the glaring disparity between promise and delivery.

            We placed our trust in this Prime Minister. If this Prime Minister cannot act in good faith, she must be removed this instant to preserve any last vestige of parliament’s moral authority. The people simply cannot have a parliament in whom we cannot trust for fear they will run off and do their own thing in flagrant disregard of their avowed duty.

            Dither and delay is costing the relationship between the people and parliament very dearly. That cannot last indefinitely however powerful parliament might consider itself to be.

            We’re talking severe damage limitation!

      • Billy Elliot
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

        Yes Steve. PM with stamina could have said it. PM could have also said “here is a shotgun and I am going to shoot to my leg with it (second time – first was in June 2016) , you are welcome tomorrow to see how I feel”.

        “We are leaving and if you crazy Europeans don’t give us what we want you will see” is an empty threat from EU perspective. They will manage. UK – not really.

        Apologises if I failed with neutral language goal Sir.

        • Steve
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

          Though what ‘shoots’ your argument down in flames is the fact that we don’t want anything from the EU, we owe them nothing, and we want rid. That is what the majority voted for.

          Telling them we are leaving on WTO is not the same thing as begging them for favours, nor is it akin to shooting oneself in the leg.

        • NickC
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

          Billy Elliot, Don’t be silly – being out of the EU is nothing like shooting your leg off with a shotgun.

    • Peter Wood
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      Yes I can.

      A Withdrawal Agreement is not needed, we can leave without it.

      The current UK government are failing to fulfill their promise to leave the EU, when in fact we can leave, quite legally, immediately.

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      It passed the decision to the people 23/6/16.

      The Withdrawal Agreement is a Treaty we cannot legally get out of – only idiots agree to that. Unfortunately Parliament has cornered that market.

      If we do not have a clean break the EU will suffer the ramifications too. The Commisson and the Council Politburo decided from the outset to play hard ball and were very effective. May and Co. played vicars’ tea party rules. That may change.

    • Dame Rita Webb
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      PvL I would recommend a trip over to Dr Tim Morgan’s blog and read his analysis of the state of the Dutch economy. Remember you are in the Euro straitjacket and there is rising opposition from German taxpayers to bailouts for their debtoholic neighbours. I predict it will not be too long before you and lots of your compatriots come around to our way of thinking.

      • Mitchel
        Posted April 8, 2019 at 10:01 am | Permalink

        Dr Morgan’s latest newsletter (surplusenergyconomics.com)#149 “The Big challenges” (8/4/19) is a good read-not for those of a nervous disposition though!

    • Merlin
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

      I agree more neutral language and compromise is called for.

      Words like ‘betrayal’, ‘quisling’, ‘cliff-edge’, ‘crashing-out’ and ‘traitor’ should be avoided.

      Also, most all, everyone needs to compromise so we can get on with this. These red lines on all sides are getting us nowhere. There is a point, where many like myself, will simply tire of this whole thing and want to call it a day. We cannot simply have government paralysed forever. There are more important things than Brexit.

      • Jagman84
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

        “Words like ‘betrayal’, ‘quisling’, ‘cliff-edge’, ‘crashing-out’ and ‘traitor’ should be avoided.”
        Maybe if the individuals, who are targeted with such descriptions, were to desist in their dishonest activities and be the democrats they purport to be, such words would be unnecessary. Their rewards must be quite substantial for them to be so determined in their actions.

      • NickC
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

        Merlin, Remain started very early after the Referendum calling us Leave voters uneducated, knuckle-draggers, flat-earthers, racists, thick, and too stupid to know what we were voting for. It’s a veritable cheek for you to come on here and complain about the language at this stage.

        Unfounded descriptions of Leaves by Remains are insults. And vice-versa. But if a man sells out his country to a foreign power, then that man is traitor. And if a woman co-operates with an occupying power, she is a Quisling (in modern understanding). And if she lies about it, she is a liar.

      • MickN
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        Fair enough Merlin. I will stop referring to May, Bercow, Hammond, Grieve, Blair etc as traitors if you can offer me an alternative word with a dictionary definition that means selling out your own country to a foreign power.

        Good luck!

    • anon
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:50 am | Permalink

      Odd
      I thought EU law was supreme.
      I thought EU laws were passed by SI. Like thextension which you passed in collusion against a democratically held refendum of the people decided by the people.

      The EU needs to respect the peoples vote to leave as already expressed.
      The EU is demonstrating it’s totalitarian nature.
      The EU is a clear and present danger to democracy in the UK and Europe.

      Yes we have problems as a majority of MPs are currently squatting in parliament on false pretences.

      The tangled web of deceit will likely lead us to vested interests and corruption in the heart of the EU . The problem is someone has to pay for it.

      The UK the people thatis have said enough let’s leave.

      The EU can’t let a colony gain independence without a treaty of Versailles.

      We left on the 29th.

      The EU are abetting and subverting a democratic vote.

      We may have decided wrong. We the People can then put it right in the UK.

      The EU is a federalist superstate a prison with no release. Prove me wrong.

      NB your comment are welcome as it helps us to communicate to those who erm have less strong ideas of liberty freedom and independence.

      eg The SNP are a unionist party just with extras.

      Parliament must acknowledge we have left and end it’s hubris and return after a clearing to implement the people vote to Leave . Parliament is like a cat called Brexit.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

      Her Majesty’s people, to whom the decision was delegated in words that were unambiguous, chose to LEAVE the European Union. During the referendum campaign, I led a team that supported Vote Leave at the local railway station, at the community centre, at Tescos and at the local shops. During the final two weeks of the campaign, I tramped round the streets of Hook delivering first Vote Leave then Leave.EU literature. At no time did anybody make subtle, nuanced arguments about what Leave meant. It meant something like No Deal. Indeed, the Remain side, led by Cameron and Osborne, used this as the basis of their Project Fear.

      You can make a constitutional case for saying that, in a parliamentary democracy, referendums are only consultative. But that’s NOT WHAT IT SAID ON THE TIN.

  4. oldtimer
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    The BBC has long since ceased to be a neutral and objective reporter on important issues. It is now a fully functioning propaganda unit pursuing the interests and causes of the self selecting oligarchy that is in control. It does this by careful selection and editing of news, who it selects or not select to interview and how they interview them. It also propagates it’s views through the myriad of other programmes it controls from documentaries through drama to comedy. That is the task of their respective editors.

    PS The BBC website this morning reports Mrs May as saying the choice is now either her deal or remaining in the EU. Presumably Mrs Merkel has made her intentions known.

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    Well we know where all the BBC ‘experts’ are on this issue. Usually the same ‘experts’ who thought that the ERM and the EURO where just great ideas (in a John Major way). Still, even now, no apology from the pathetic man.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      Charles Moore today (on how Oliver Letwin went from Thatcherite to Blairite Liberal Democrat, a toady to Europe and as Moore puts it “a bloody idiot”.

      Though it seems he was a member of the Liberals and Fabians at Cambridge so perhaps he always was really!

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/04/06/sir-oliver-letwin-went-arch-thatcherite-king-remainers/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget

      • Lifelogic
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

        He was also a great Poll Tax enthusiast it seems. Right in principle perhaps – but idiotic politically and the reason we had to suffer John Major.

      • Tad Davison
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

        He’s a bend-with-the-wind politician. What the late Tony Benn would describe as a weathercock and not a signpost. If ever there was one type of politician that makes me want to puke, it is the careerist toady who is in it for what they can gain.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

      Andrea Leadsom today on Marr. ‘No parliament can bind its successor’ and ‘I am not happy about talking to Labour but it is better than no Brexit’.

      Well Andrea, May’s putrid deal is not Brexit (not even close) and it would also quite clearly bind governments that follow T May’s as Cox outlined in his legal advice . As of course does membership of the EU, the customers union or the single market, but at least they had a leave option. Was she lying or just deluded? Perhaps she could clarify?

      • Richard1
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

        She is wrong. The Brino now being cooked up, inc being locked in a customs union with the EU – preventing any independent trade policy, is clearly inferior to remain. I’d have more respect for mrs leadsom if she would follow the logic of the arguments she has been repeating and say this.

      • Lindsay McDougall
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

        Should we not withdraw our signature from the International Law on Treaties that we foolishly signed in 1970? That way, sovereignty is regained in full.

  6. eeyore
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    All true. Meanwhile Mrs May asserts that “people I speak to on the doorstep” tell her they welcome Labour involvement.

    This must mean that since WA was last voted down she’s been out on the doorstep. I wonder why there was no coverage whatever of this remarkable event. It’s certainly been some time since a Prime Minister rang my doorbell.

    I hope someone will ask her for details of these visits so the Press can check up with the lucky householders.

    • NickC
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      Eeyore, Doorstepped by Theresa May? Hardly likely, as you infer. The problem for Mrs May is she has lied so often, that we think she lies all the time until proven otherwise. As the Russians say, the fish rots from the head. We need trust to function as a society; but she is destroying it.

  7. Mark B
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    As far as the media go, apart from one source, all tend to have a political bias and/or view. That exception of course, being the BBC. Not that that stops it trying. Apparently Leave guests are constantly outnumbered on it TV political flagship program, Question Time. At worst the panel should be made up of equal Leave and Remain.

    Then we have a Channel 4 journalist who made discourteous and racist comments about those who attended the Leave rally in Westminster recently. If he made those same comments about people at a BAME rally he would have been out of a job. But it’s Leave supporters, so that’s OK.

    The Fourth Estate is putting itself in the invidious position once reserved for former Communist Bloc news agencies when, as the people behind the Iron Curtain use to say; “You pretend to tell the truth, and I will pretend to believe you.”

    Things have never been so bad.

  8. William Simpson
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    Your suggested approach by the media would require them to be honest, which sadly, they are not.

  9. William Simpson
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

    Here’s new thought:

    Why can’t May just be honest and say that she is a Remainer? Why for that matter can’t all Remainers just be honest and say they are Remainers, instead of the tripe “we respect the result of the Referendum”. No one who is a Remainer respects the result of the Referendum.

    If she is/they are so hell-bent on remaining in the EU, then have the balls to implement it, (revoke At 50) and override the result of the referendum up front and in plain sight. The Withdrawal Agreement is toxic and will be highly damaging to the UK. It is that to both Leavers AND Remainers. It is the worst possible scenario for the UK, the best for the EU. The latter gets everything it wants and removes recalcitrant Britons from the EU; they get our money, our markets and we have NO say. It’s a win-win for them.

    This is the act of betrayal which I deeply despise.

    If you choose to ignore the vote result, please just do it, and deal with the consequences at the next opportunity the electorate have to judge you. Your successors will deal with the EU, (who are a party to this) will have the opportunity of humiliating the EU at every opportunity that presents itself to them, when they are (still) full members of the EU.

    But stop pretending to be doing something, when in fact you are doing the opposite, and in fact, worse in the case of the Surrender Agreement, aka the Withdrawal Agreement.

    • NickC
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

      William Simpson, You are perfectly correct – let’s have some honesty from Remains for a change.

      • margaret howard
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        Yes, Nick, here goes: We won nearly half the vote and no proper democracy would countenance giving half the population no say in how their future is shaped. We owe it to our children because we know the vast majority of them want to Remain and it is their life that will be ruined while most of us here will either be six foot under or dribbling in an old folks home.

        • Edward2
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

          Polls show a strong leave desire.
          We had a vote.
          Only 36% of youngsters voted.
          Would you vote evety month?

        • matthu
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

          As people get older, they often grow in wisdom. So your assumption that your children will continue to hold the same views when you are dribbling in an old age home may be fallacious.

          Especially if the EU has evolved into a completely different animal by then.

        • Tad Davison
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

          I’d love to know which political party you support. Making disparaging ageist comments that would probably get any broadcaster fired, I wonder if you have the guts to tell us?

          • margaret howard
            Posted April 8, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

            Tad

            “I’d love to know which political party you support.”

            Yes Tad, with pleasure.
            I’ve voted for the Greens for a better future for our children and our planet. However since I’ve lived most of my life in a constituency that has never been anything but blue and will remain so forever, I have been disenfranchised under our primitive, backward, undemocratic two party system.

            As for being ageist, well I belong to that age group myself and the longer I live the more I am convinced that that other old adage ‘There’s no fool like an old fool’ is very often correct.

          • Edward2
            Posted April 9, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

            It is a Conservative seat because that it what the majority in that constituency continue to want.
            If your neighbours wanted a change they would vote differently.

  10. Alan Jutson
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    That is the problem with everyone calling WORLD TRADE ORGANISATION Terms, a No Deal.

    We have had a WTO deal option on the table for two years (indeed it is the law, the majority of MPs voted for it at the time), its just never been explained properly, by enough people.
    Had it been, and had Government just set some tariffs at the time, then business and the EU would have had two years to accept and prepare for it.

    So, so Simple, such an arrangement.

  11. Henry Carter
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    Leaving without signing the Withdrawal Agreement means we lose all our deals with the EU and also we lose all the deals the EU has with third countries. IT tips the UK into trading with the whole world on the basis of WTO rules alone. Not a single country anywhere in the world trades on the basis of WTO rules alone, because they are in economic terms like being in the stone age. So any proper journalist is fully justified in calling your plan a catastrophic leap off the cliff wearing a blindfold and without a parachute

    • DaveK
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      Good example of the remain disinformation spread by the media, especially the BBC without rebuttal by the remain Conservative party and Parliament.

    • Edward2
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      Bit of a spin on wording there Henry
      Over 90% of world trade carries on using WTO schedules quite successfully.
      Yes some nations have additional agreements on other things to make trade easier but these are simple stuff like one the US A has with the EU which is an agreement on the wordings of wine bottle labels.
      The EU still has no trade agreements with several nations it does hundreds of millions of trade with.
      Japan has just signed a trade agreement with the EU
      Did you notice any shortages of their goods in the UK and Europe in the last 40 years?

    • Richard1
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      Very silly language. Of course there are numerous minor facilitating agreements but it is accurate to say that all EU countries, Inc the UK, trade, eg, with the US on WTO terms. As has been pointed out on numerous occasions, the EU third party trade arrangements novate to the UK upon confirmation of both parties. But the EU rule is no independent trade negotiations while a member – so of course they haven’t formally novated yet.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      We’ve had this nonsense posted before, including by Henry Carter, and it’s been answered before, for example here last October:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/27/we-will-be-full-members-of-wto-on-30-march-and-trading-under-their-rules/#comment-969305

      and here last month:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/03/09/votes-next-week/#comment-1001670

      The reality is that people posting this rubbish know it is rubbish, they’ve been told enough times, but they just don’t care whether it’s true or false. Just like the Prime Minister, any lie will do as long as it can be given a veneer of credibility.

      • Jagman84
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

        So, Denis Cooper, are we now full members of the WTO, by way of the Withdrawal Act or has Mrs May’s possibly illegal intervention held us in abeyance?

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

          We have always been full members but we have allowed the EU to speak for us. After we have left the EU it will no longer speak for us at all, but if we still have a customs union with the EU then we will be constrained in what we can say for ourselves.

          • Jagman84
            Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

            Thank you. It’s how I read it but wanted to be sure.

        • forthurst
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

          begging the question.

    • Jagman84
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      The WTO was founded on 1.1.1995, so hardly the Stone Age! Using such terms shows a worrying lack of knowledge on the subject. You do not need a empire-building organisation as an intermediary to trade between nations. If an mediator is necessary, the WTO is more than adequate.

    • Billy Elliot
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

      You are right Henry. I guess Holy Sea and few other “countries” of the same size do in fact trade with WTO terms. Unfortunately WTO in our supporters country are in “fairy-tale business” so you can’t really have a serious conversation with them.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

        No, he is wrong; the European Commission itself says otherwise:

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/03/09/votes-next-week/#comment-1001670

        and if you could ever be bothered to read replies you might know that.

      • NickC
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

        Billy Elliot, As Denis Cooper says you have been told before, even if you’re too idle to find out for yourself. All the RTAs, TRQs and MRAs do is ameliorate some of the conditions set up by nations themselves. The WTO trading framework is unchanged.

    • forthurst
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

      “Not a single country anywhere in the world trades on the basis of WTO rules alone”;
      perhaps that’s because trading under WTO rules does not imply what you imagine it implies?

  12. Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    I have just read Charles Moore in the Spectator. His opinion is that the parliament – Labour and Conservative is broadly disposed to keep us in the EU.
    Mrs May is dithering and using Labour votes to do just that.

    She has got to go – now – before she damages the country beyond recognition.

    • Anonymous
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:23 am | Permalink

      They’re scared of a Corbyn victory but as Peter Hitchens says today there really isn’t a fag paper between them. THAT’s what they’re really terrified of the public finding out.

  13. Stred
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    But the journalists at Channel 4 and the BBC are not neutral or professional. They work with the Remain campaign which is financed by big business and globalist figures behind the scenes. They repeat the main lie that the UK is unprepared for leaving on the same terms as it already is trading with the rest of the world and that our products and services will not comply with EU standards, although they already do and EU law has been incorporated into UK law in order to smooth the process. They do not read or repeat the articles by qualified academics and business people in trade matters where they refer to the details of agreements made by those civil servants below mandarin level who are loyal. When politicians who are true to their manifesto try to put the truth out of their programmes, they interrupt and terminate their propaganda, designed to take away our bargaining position, with more lies. They are working for the other side.

    • Stred
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:29 am | Permalink

      terminate using their propaganda

  14. Tony Sharp
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    Sir John,
    “Neutral language”? You are now ‘fiddling while Rome burns’. No good arguing about meanings of Referendum or Ref#2, this is about Leaving EU Now. As I predicted the other day May is prepared to destroy the Tory Party to do a deal with Corbyn to lock all future Governments into the EU system of institutions (CU/SM/ECJ/ FoM).
    Unless you ERG and DUP groups move a Commons Vote of No Confidence in her she will not desist from her ‘No- No Deal – Any Deal with the EU on their terms’. If you do not split your party and take the nation with you then there will be no Tory Party left to take at all!

  15. Oliver
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    I would suggest you don’t go far enough in properly putting how a neutral observer would view the “Remain” “falling off a cliff” perversion.

    Perhaps, “Remain see this as “falling off a cliff” because they apparently believe the Treasury’s original worst case forecast. This is that GDP will fall, as a central case by 7.5% over 15 years, which translates into approx 0.5% pa (ie growth of 2% instead of 2.5%). This assumption involves [1] there being no action to “make a deal” for 15 years and [2] Trade volumes with Europe halving over the period – within 10 years of the end of WW2 trade volumes had recovered to their previous levels”.

    Remain talk about Leave “lies”. The Treasuries forecasts are institutionally dishonest – why this doesn’t lead to prosecution for gross misconduct is beyond me.

  16. Brigham
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood I think that you are very naive. The remainers know all that you have said, but they have decided to stop Brexit by any means possible. Brexit needs to be done quickly and presented to the whole nation as a fait accompli. That is the only way to uphold democracy. Whichever way it is done I’m afraid that the two main parties have had their day.

  17. heavenSent
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    It won’t be like falling off a cliff exactly but more like ‘back to the future’, back to the year 1970 to try to pick up the threads- only thing is at that time we still had a huge merchant navy with thousands of ocean going ships, with outposts manned by agents who scoured the world for cargoes- we have none of that in place now so it’s going to take us decades to catch up- it’s could be called catching up with the past.

    So just like sticking our heads in the sand our ERG homegrowns would also pretend that the EU is not there, that it doesn’t exist that the biggest wealthiest economic bloc on the planet with 500 million of the richest consumers right on our own doorstep only twenty miles away to them is only an irritation and the Luddites would take a wreckers ball to it- if they could. heaven help us- the times we live in?

  18. Peter
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Well the BBC still employ a person called a ‘Reality Check Correspondent ‘. The implication being that he is the fount of all wisdom on the subject and will cut through spin and present facts.

    Peter Lilley would say the Reality Check Correspondent puts the case for Remain.

    Either way, it is rather patronising to assume listeners are unable to reach their own conclusions on what to believe.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

      I too would say the fact checker pushes the case for remain. After all almost everyone working for the BBC (other than as engineers etc.) is pro EU, left wing, scientifically illiterate, a believer in magic money tree economics, pro ever more regulation, pro pushing irrational climate alarmism, anti-landlord, pro ever more red tape and employment laws ……

      Nearly always 5 to 1 pro remain in discussions programmes.

  19. agricola
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    The real problem is the BBC. Newspapers rise or fall proportional to those who buy their papers. The BBC thrives on taxation which is not a matter of customer choice. Their current affairs and news department is the Guardian on air. Journalist Charles Moore was bang on at the start of the last Questiontime when he took an an affronted Fiona Bruce on the question of the history of BBC anti Leave bias on her programme. The figures were 30% leave and 60%plus remain over the period since the referendum re representation on her panel.

    The BBC require to be culled in news and current affaires. Channel 4 in the same area require elimination. Comments on the Snow concept of news would violate your sensibilities.

    They are loosing and they know it. The people will have their way. When leaving the EU has been accomplished and we have a proper Conservative government the warped output of the BBC can be dealt with. I would advocate selling them off to the private sector to allow a market place verdict on their propaganda output.

  20. steadyeddie
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    I could not agree more with this morning’s diary – please no more references to the Prime Minister being mad or deluded. I have always thought of the Conservatives being a courteous party- but not borne out by much of the comment by your supporters. Criticise the policy not the person!

    • Brigham
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      It is the person, in the guise of PM, that is behaving like a fool in pushing for another treaty instead of Brexit.

    • Ignoramus
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

      The trouble is that the “policy” keeps changing but the person who makes it does not.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

      So how would one describe Idi Amin or Pol Pot?

      Not to use the most appropriate words to describe what is possibly the most appallingly bad British leader ever, is to keep the truth from her and deny the people a voice. It is our right to criticise as we so please.

      If politicians can’t stand the heat, they ought to do us all a favour and get out of the kitchen! In May’s case, that cannot come soon enough!

      May could have been one of the most popular Prime Ministers by just delivering what she promised, and got us out.

      ‘No deal is better than a bad deal’. May brings the whole democratic process into disrepute, but perhaps you would have us get down on one knee and kiss her hand despite her abject failure and duplicity!

      Such cringing deference would be thoroughly undeserved.

    • agricola
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      The policy is the product of the person. In this case no one is allowed to argue any alternative. The flow of resignations tells all. Logic suggests that the PM is ground zero. Apart from her civil service advisors, she has been the only one involved and has earnt herself ultimate censure.

  21. Grahame ASH
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    Have you sent your message to the BBC?

    • bigneil
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      My local BBC Radio presenter recently announced he would be going on holiday shortly and two stand-ins would be on-air. A text was sent in asking him – after all HIS on-air scare stories about Brits travelling to/from the EU would have – was he sure he’d be able to get back into the UK? He then went into bluster mode and made up an excuse – with his own staff laughing at him being caught out. Can’t trust the Beeb ? Who’d have thought it?

  22. forthurst
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    How would we survive without a deal? Very well indeed: for one thing, expensive CAP food would become a thing of the past as we re-acquainted ourselves with Commonwealth produce without the prohibitive tariffs imposed to protect those ghastly Spanish oranges from direct competition. We would be able to trade freely with whom we wanted on mutually beneficial terms rather than be the ever milch cows and hostages to what has always been, from its inception, a Franco-German racket.

  23. Gary C
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

    I’ve just heard the BBC reporting TM is now saying it’s her deal or remain.

    She really is fixated in giving away everything (many of) the electorate valued for which they will repay her for at the next GE.

    If she were to step outside her protective bubble for a while she might just see there are many out there with not a lot to loose so voting ABT will not be bothering them.

    A recent poll done in Doncaster put the Conservatives in 5th behind ‘none of them’ who came in 4th while the election in Newport retained a Labour seat with both con/lab well down on votes while UKIP gained.

    Get your heads out of the sand and take note!

    • bigneil
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

      ” there are many out there with not a lot to loose ” – too true – The way our money is being thrown away in Foreign Aid, HS2, Brussels, NHS for anyone who flies in, Free lives for the newly-arrived families of “12yr old 6ft bearded asylum fakers” etc etc, the working class will have absolutely nothing to lose, because they’ll have nothing left. Literally nothing.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

      If it’s her deal or Remain, then Remain, let’s see the list of MPs who vote to revoke A50. Then May goes, then a general election, then resubmit A50. Potentially out in 2-3 years, faster than with May’s deal.

  24. Dominic
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Fear and confusion’s been the hallmark of the Remain propaganda machine since the starting gun was fired by Cameron in 2015 though this shouldn’t come as a surprise. Inciting an emotional response rather than an reasoned response is the fundamental objective of all forms of propaganda and Remain have perfected that well worn technique of political manipulation. That’s not to say it’s worked in its entirety but stoking uncertainty does have a corrosive effect

    May’s campaign of inciting fear aligned with her embrace of authoritarian identity politics to push forward her misandrist project as led to a culture in which our freedoms have been deliberately curtailed. It is now far easier to slander Leave voters and control the issues they are able to discuss without sanction. That deprives us all of the oxygen we need to get our argument over

    The State’s control over all aspects of the media is taking shape. May’s installed pro-EU editor in Eurosceptic newspapers and now she’s taking control of social media platforms.

    We are all in effect financing as taxpayers the salaries of people who pass laws to subjugate and destroy our freedoms. That is unacceptable

    This PM is now even a more potent threat than Corbyn. At least he doesn’t pretend to be a democrat.

    She must be deposed and it is unacceptable for the ERG to remain passive on this issue

  25. RAF
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Today the Prime Minister is again repeating the same worn out trope – she wouldn’t last a few seconds on Just a Minute, failing on repetition in short order – that Brexit may not happen unless her “deal” (treaty) is accepted. What drives Mrs May to continually repeat the same old lines and claim that her rotten “deal” is Brexit, when by any analysis, it patently isn’t. What, or who is driving this woman’s obsession to push her “deal” with such intensity in the face of firm opposition?
    If, by now, she doesn’t understand that what she allegedly negotiated is seen as an awful construct that would lock the UK into the EU in perpetuity, then she really ought to hand over the reins to someone who does.
    Clearly, she is a menace to the UK and to the Conservative party: she has to go, and swiftly, if the UK is to recover its freedom.

  26. matthu
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Forget the BBC – they are a lost cause.

    How many Conservative ministers ever counter the narrative of the alarmists?

    How can so, so many Conservative MPs possibly defend supporting May’s withdrawal agreement on the grounds of “getting Brexit over the line”? Did they honestly imagine they would ever have been allowed to negotiate something counter to the political directive once they had signed away all of our leverage?

    That is why they all need to go.

    • Anonymous
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      I forgot to pay my TV licence bill and got to the red letter stage. I paid it. It was not back dated.

      Six months free.

      Work it out for yourselves.

      • Steve
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

        Anonymous

        The best thing is to challenge them on the grounds that what they billed you for was not fit for purpose. This is a right under law.

        Let them refer to a DCA, then at that point pay the bill directly to the BBC via billing sort code and account number.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

      I’ve got more than a little sympathy with that!

  27. Turboterrier.
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Sir John.

    Well said my views and a lot of other peoples.

    If the media was acting in a purely neutral way surely they would be asking opinions from people like yourself and big business leaders for their views on the 24 page document that has been produced by the EU which is nothing short of a template for the United State of Europe. The key players will be Germany and France. Gives a good idea who is controlling our PMs strings. What is sad this document has been highlighted on U Tube but hardly a mention of it let alone encouraging debate from the media.

  28. Lifelogic
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile Hammond is heading for the highest taxes for 70 years. Yet still he is borrowing even more money to waste and give to the EU. This combined with very poor and declining public services, a dire NHS rationing system that kills thousands, a criminal justice system that has largely given up, congested roads, pot holes everywhere, soft loans for pointless degrees ….

    Not just Brexit May and Hammond are totally failing at but almost everything.

    • percy openshaw
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      Absolutely spot on. My MP, allegedly a Conservative – but one who suggests to me that the centre point of politics is “moving left” – responds to complaints of Hammond’s profligacy and incompetence with photocopied bromides from the relevant government department. So, when I complained that HS2 was a white elephant I received a grubby piece of paper telling me it would make £92 billion. Pity it costs over a hundred. When I complained that investment income was now taxed from only £2000 up, I was informed that at least income tax thresholds had been raised. And so on. And then there’s the infamous “Foreign Aid” wheeze – a kleptocrats’ charter. It goes on and on. As Heffer notes of Letwin in today’s Telegraph, these people are either not or no longer Conservative. I think they’ll find it difficult to put the genie back in the bottle because May’s Brexit betrayal lifts the lid on years of betrayal – of the Tory voters and their beliefs.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      @lifelogic – Yes – I’ve made the point before that Hammond is behaving more like labour than labour by constantly raising taxes or introducing new or stealth ones.

      There needs to be a real balance in bankrupting ourselves, while increasing the tax burden, and what we send abroad.

      This government has failed utterly to resolve problems that should be bread and butter – especially with infrastructure, congestion, general decay and the state of roads/pavements.

  29. Steve
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Every day the MSM, BBC especially, glorifies those who frankly have no right to interfere in UK matters.

    I find myself shouting at the telly “it’s got FA to do with him / her / them”

    The Irish PM is a fine example, as is the First Minister of the Scottish assembly who doesn’t seem to agree with the notion that when you vote to remain in the UK you have to accept UK majority vote.

    These people should not be given the means or opportunity to subvert the will of the
    majority.

    They should keep their noses out, and the BBC should not be attempting to endow them with righteousness.

  30. Bryan Harris
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    It would seem that the media is not interested in being impartial – Just like the BBC took a side on the climate change debate, so they and every other broadcaster has taken sides on the Brexit debate….The very strange thing is that they all are against a clean break and try to persuade us to stay in – This is more than a coincidence, when the political establishment also want us kept locked into the EU.
    Cameron missed a very good opportunity to deal with BBC bias when the charter came up for renewal… but to keep his establishment pals happy he did nothing – Another disgraceful surrender by him….
    Many things need to change to bring back rationality in this country – Getting out of the EU is only the first of them.

  31. robert lewy
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    “Prime Minister Theresa May has insisted she had to reach out to Labour in a bid to deliver Brexit or risk letting it “slip through our fingers”.

    Today’s News headline. But what does the use of the term ” slip through our fingers” tell us about May’s mindset.

    Is Brexit like a cricket ball which a fielder has failed to gather in because of the slippery exterior of the ball, the ineptness of the fielder in anticipating the trajectory of the ball or even the direction of travel?

    Alternatvely, is Brexit not a solid at all but rather a greasy liquid which is impossible to grasp?

    Or is it a description of a wooden and inflexible agent unable to respond to Brexit’s opportunity?

    Others may suggest alternative metaphors but one thing is clear.
    There is no hint or suggestion of an opportunity to unleash the forces of a proud nation
    in a world context by restoring their freedom.

    Is it any wonder that our PM values Brexit so low?

    Carpe Diem

    .

  32. Andy
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Actually we do have serious questions to ask about the role of the media in the Brexit debate.

    TV and radio has given both sides equal weight. Guests are introduced as either leave supporting or remain supporting.

    What the media does not do – and this is the failure – is give any semblance of legitimacy to an argument.

    For example, imagine there was a debate between a scientist and a flat Earther. We (mostly) all know the world is round but just holding the debate would legitimise the flat Earthers view, when we know it is rubbish.

    Brexit is the same. We know pretty much all of the arguments for Brexit have fallen apart. We know what was promised in 2016 was not true. No £350m, no Turks, more bureaucracy etc …. we know this now. But the media still gives equal weight to guests who argue it is.

    We have evidence of numerous Brexiteers lying on television or on Twitter – literally making things up – and yet they are not properly held to account for it and they are still invited back.

    On a matter so important it should be one strike and you’re out.

    • Anonymous
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

      Relax, Andy.

      We’re staying in. And there should be no more problems. No EU Army, no more (near) third world countries admitted to the EU, no euro for us, no common tax policy, no Tobin tax… and on.

      We’ll see.

      Brexit was sabotaged btw. It wasn’t even tried.

      • margaret howard
        Posted April 8, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

        Anonymous

        ” No EU Army, no more (near) third world countries admitted to the EU, no euro”

        No doubt you would prefer us following the US army into yet more aggressive, illegal wars and become a member of the Commonwealth trading bloc with some lovely countries like Bangladesh, Cameroon, Nigeria, Tonga, Ghana, Cameroon, Swaziland and many of the world’s poorest with unstable democracies.

        And it is a pity we didn’t join the euro which has become so successful that it has replaced the pound as the world’s reserve currency and against which the pound has dropped like a stone.

        • a-tracy
          Posted April 9, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

          the euro has replaced the pound as the worlds reserve currency?
          Currency composition of official foreign exchange reserves – WIKI -IMF figures
          In 1990 the [ECU/French Franc/Deutsche Mark] was 34.18%, the US $ 47.14% and the Pound [£] 2.39%.
          in 2018 the Euro is 20.69%, the US$ 61.69% and £ 4.43%.

    • NickC
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

      Andy, Haven’t you come up with an argument for why the UK should be ruled from Brussels yet? You’ve had 4 years at least.

      • margaret howard
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        Yes, I can give you an answer to that. It’s because since membership over 40 years ago it has turned us from the ‘sick man of Europe’ into the world’s 5th biggest economy.

        What more can we ask for?

        • Edward2
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

          Oh not that repeated cliche margaret.
          Look at the huge improved standards of living in other non EU nations.

        • Fedupsoutherner
          Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

          And now Europe is flagging while weprosper. I don’t want to be shackled to a failure.

          • margaret howard
            Posted April 8, 2019 at 10:37 am | Permalink

            Shackled to a failure? In comparison to what or whom? Don’t know of any EU country where people are stabbed to death on a weekly basis. Or where a minority of people can cause the sort of turmoil we are experiencing now with one MP already murdered for her beliefs.

            What fort of cloud cuckoo world do you live in?

          • a-tracy
            Posted April 9, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

            margaret a quick check on euronews England and Wales are well behind other European Countries for homicides the Baltics are the murder capital of Europe. We are behind France, and even Malta. Perhaps you have better or more up to date statistics you are quoting from, can you refer us to those.

    • Edward2
      Posted April 8, 2019 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

      How will you confirm the argument is rubbish unless you have debate?
      All advances stem from arguments and debates and reviews of disperate views.
      Your worrying idea is for someone, referee like, to decide which is the correct position and ban others from their opposite view.
      Very odd.

  33. Paul Cohen
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Bit ironic that the Commons having achieved their “meaningful vote” are bent on trying to make the referendum vote “meaningless”.

    May today hinting that Brexit might not happen – this verbiage should not be in her vocabulary. She has proved to be totally useless, ignoring advice, side lining her own negotiating team, making untrue public statements and destroying any credibility we she may have had.

    For goodness sake break this impasse before it takes over public life, and get someone in place to provide some proper leadership.

  34. William Long
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    I agree that what you are asking for is highly desirable but very unlikely to be achieved – after all, stories are the media’s stock in trade, and why would they bother to spoil what seems a good one with the truth? As a result they have very little credibility on any issue, but sadly few of them are wise enough to see that.

  35. Chris
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    The media and politicians, including the PM, should be honest in their protrayal of the situation. This excerpt from R North is spot on. The default is still No Deal, and not what May is stating:

    “Brexit: the leader speaks

    ……As we can hardly avoid knowing, that deal has been rejected three times by parliament, but Mrs May now seems to acknowledge reality, saying: “there is no sign it can be passed in the near future”. And, she says, because parliament “has made clear it will stop the UK leaving without a deal, we now have a stark choice: leave the European Union with a deal or do not leave at all”.

    This is a seriously worrying assertion. As long as leaving without a deal is the default outcome, written into Article 50, it is not within the power of parliament directly to intervene in this manner. And, if the revocation of the Article 50 notification remains Crown prerogative, parliament cannot force the issue. The real choice remains what it has been for some time: deal or no deal.

    Nevertheless, Mrs May seems to be intent on presenting us with a false choice, undoubtedly to rack up the tension in her own party and to soften resistance elsewhere. And to avoid this fate, she has taken “a new approach”, telling us that “we must deliver Brexit” and to do so, “we must agree a deal”. ….”

    http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87199

  36. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    K Kwarteng (your own party’s MP) failed to counter the Airbus Senior Vice President Katherine Bennett (CBE) ‘s assertion (18 minutes in) that “democracy has a place” in deciding whether or not we leave the EU, and she’d prefer us to stay in, end of.

    A PLACE!!!

    Let’s show them via the Brexit Party where that “place” is!

  37. Martin
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    I was glad you were able to make your case for leaving the EU, Sir John, on Channel 4 News on Friday evening. But then Krishnan Guru-Murthy decided to contradict you when you cited recent polls showing 44% of those polled in the country were for leaving without a deal. Had he not seen these polls or was it Channel 4 policy to deny them?

  38. Denis Cooper
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    Well, JR, I have to say that you and some of your colleagues have also been guilty of using unhelpful language, carelessly creating confusion between the scenario where we would leave the EU without any new special or preferential trade deal, defaulting to the terms of the existing WTO treaties, but with a wide range of new agreements on all kinds of things to ensure an orderly and smooth withdrawal, and the chaotic “cliff edge” scenario where we would just leave without any replacement agreements on anything at all.

    I did repeatedly warn against making that mistake, but as usual to no effect.

    Now I will proffer another, possibly final, piece of advice to also be ignored: do not give Theresa May any excuse for holding a repeat referendum, because the second time round the EU would make damn sure that it won.

    As the EU and its local quislings have done on three out of the four previous occasions when repeat referendums were held to reverse defeats.

    • acorn
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

      “… defaulting to the terms of the existing WTO treaties, but with a wide range of new agreements on all kinds of things to ensure an orderly and smooth withdrawal …”.

      Perhaps Denis you could supply a link to a list of all these “new agreements”? “WTO rules” are irrelevant if there are no bilateral Mutual Recognition Agreements (MRA) and Equalisation Agreements, that allow basic WTO rules to operate between WTO Member States.

      My number crunching group have found a few such agreements that Whitehall admits to, but nothing that gets anywhere near the ERG’s promised land. The EU Contingency Action Plan (CAP), has proffered 14+ temporary parachute offers to the UK; but, they are purely for the benefit of the EU27.

      As I have said many times on this site. The UK is voluntarily leaving the EU Club. The EU Club is not throwing the UK out of the EU Club. If the UK fails to pay off its outstanding bill at the EU Club, don’t expect any other Clubs to consider the UK for membership.

  39. oldwulf
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

    I would expect the commercial media to do what it takes in order to make money. Each outlet will play to its own audience. For example, the same story might be presented differently in the Guardian than in the Telegraph.

    However, the BBC has its own code which includes “Trust is the foundation of the BBC; we are independent, impartial and honest We’re honest and fair with the courage to say and do the right thing. We deliver on what we say and take responsibility for our actions”.

    • NickC
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

      Oldwulf, Are you serious? You don’t actually trust the BBC do you?

      • Oldwulf
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

        @Nick
        No….and ….no

      • Oldwulf
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

        @Nick
        Sorry – I meant yes (that quote was online) and no (I don’t actually trust the BBC)

  40. Semantic Pedantic
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

    There are so many politically loaded phrases that one is on the back foot from the off and while one is explaining one is losing.

    The control of the language ought to have been clamped down on from the off.

    He who controls the language controls the agenda, the policy and the law.

    • Steve
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

      Semantic Pedantic

      “He who controls the language controls the agenda, the policy and the law.”

      Ask John Bercow about that one.

    • matthu
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

      Is that why criticizing the BBC could soon be construed as hate speech?

  41. Grant
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    At the Council meeting Wednesday the choice will be put by the EU 27 – Leave Friday or Revoke

    • Steve
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      Grant

      Let’s hope so !

      It’ll mean we’re out. Mrs May and Parliament WOULD NOT DARE ! She and the rest of the crooks wouldn’t be able to run fast enough.

    • Tad Davison
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

      It might be the law as they have engineered it, but in the face of that, I would say, what the hell has it got to do with them when or how we leave, and declare UDI.

      If they want to do trade deals thereafter, here’s the number to call.

  42. Roy Grainger
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Interesting to see May had a 20-minute meeting with the Archbishop of Canterbury who told her “no deal” would be immoral because it would make the poor poorer. In as much as you can ever understand May’s motivation that maybe provides a clue given her background. Anyway, looking forward to the Archbishop telling us not to vote Labour for exactly the same reason because that time it would be true.

    • Steve
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      Roy Grainger

      “Interesting to see May had a 20-minute meeting with the Archbishop of Canterbury who told her “no deal” would be immoral because it would make the poor poorer.”

      OK, that’s another one who should keep his nose out.

      What an idiot…it’s like saying Britain should not have stood up to Hitler because people would face hardship. Typical bloody pacifist.

      Anyway – Blair also took religious consultation before committing treason. Coincidence?

  43. Andy
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    I’ve had a Damascene conversion. The scales have fallen from my eyes.

    WE MUST LEAVE WITHOUT A DEAL.

    THE EUSSR IS EVIL !!!

    I apologise to all of those I have insulted on this forum. Please forgive me.

    • Steve
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

      It’s ok Andy, We’re not as vicious as sometimes made out to be.

      I suggest you take a break for a while, get to the coast for the weekend with the wife and kids – quality time.

    • Anonymous
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Bless you Andy.

      Have a nice Sunday. Sorry if I’ve been a bit snappy with you.

  44. Steve
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    Well according to said biased media this morning, Theresa May now defends her position on the basis that there was no alternative to siding with Corbyn, because the choice, she alleges, is either WA or no brexit at all.

    That tells us the woman has no intention whatsoever of taking the country out of the EU. She’s prepared to cancel brexit if we do accept vassalage.

    They’re all in it together, they stink.

  45. Simon
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    You weren’t very neutral when you were being thrown off C4 news. lol

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted April 8, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      Simon

      Its the interviewer who is supposed to be neutral, not the person being interviewed, as they have been invited to state their case.

  46. NickW
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

    The media does not exist in order to inform, it exists in order to influence, acting only in the interests of its owners and senior management. Their aim is to destroy the Nation State.

    They use words with a high emotional score, such as crash and cliff edge, in order to provoke emotion, because emotion replaces reason and logic and stops people from thinking for themselves.

    The end result is visible to us all; huge numbers of people who insist that staying in the EU is the “Safest option”, but are completely unable to articulate any logical reason for their opinion.

    Once people understand how they are being manipulated, it no longer works, all it does is to reveal the pundits who have been bought, who have taken the thirty pieces of silver as payment to betray their fellow citizens.

    • Steve
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

      Nick W

      “The media does not exist in order to inform, it exists in order to influence,”

      Ah well you see that’s where the BBC is in breach of it’s charter. It isn’t supposed to influence, especially politically.

  47. Ian
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Sir John
    The repeated time and time again mantra “That we must leave the EU in a manner the People voted for” has never been followed up by the majority in parliament with anything that permits leave. We just get continued assertions that leave means stay. Stay under EU control, stay with all trade organised by the EU, stay with the EU being the superior lawmaker for the UK, stay in the isolationist regime of the EU.

    Project fear, is just about undermining self-government, democracy and stopping the UK joining the world community. Is the UK that frightened of being part of the World Community?

    I thank you for remaining true to the electorate and the UK

  48. Kenneth
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    The BBC has the greatest reach and budget and yet I regularly hear biased terms, not just from the contributors (which the BBC chooses to invite by the way), but from the BBC itself.

    The BBC has regularly made biased political statements such as:

    “crashing out”
    “Anti-European” (= Brexit supporter)
    “Pro-European” (= Remain supporter)
    “People’s vote” (= loser’s vote)

    Those Conservative MPs wishing to abide by their manifesto and honour the referendum are bizarrely called “rebels”.

    The greatest damage was done by the BBC the day after the referendum when it introduced the illogical concept of a “soft” Brexit, as if a binary choice could somehow have “degrees”. It also talked of how “complicated” the process would be, once again undermining the notion of a binary choice.

    Once Theresa may has been dismissed (or resigned) we need a PM and cabinet who will call out this bias as it happens, citing the evidence which can be gathered by listening to any BBC news outlet for a few minutes.

    • Lindsay McDougall
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

      We could always abolish the BBC, converting its educational and specialist programmes to a pay per view system and privatising the rest.

  49. BOF
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Excellent point Sir John, and I hear otherwise perfectly sensible people that I know, parroting what they hear and read.

    If I may deviate slightly. Parliament legislated last week that we cannot leave the EU without a ‘deal’ but perhaps you could tell us how that is defined as in my experience there are many different ways that a deal can be defined. In this case would it be a free trade deal, a deal to switch to WTO rules, or is it stipulated that it must be the WA or the WA + Common Market? Must it cover goods only or goods and services? To me, if the law does not define ‘deal’, then the law is pointless.

    Perhaps Sir John, you could provide some illumination on this to help us understand what the consequences could be.

  50. Everhopeful
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    Successive govts have gagged the press.
    So what we have now is state controlled.
    The Overton Window is narrowing to the point where those dissenters/ dissidents undergoing BBC ( or any) interrogation are treated with INCREDIBLE rudeness and disrespect.
    Has Corbyn’s world actually arrived?
    @liblabconkip
    PS
    (Internet censorship isn’t really about “hurty hurty” feelings and ***** FAIRNESS”. It is about suppressing news…so that you keep voting the right way!)

  51. Sue Doughty
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    There is no cliff edge and anyway, we have parachutes.

  52. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    “Just leaving the EU without signing the Withdrawal Agreement” – aka No Deal – is increasingly popular in the country. Yesterday I quoted the results of a YouGov poll commissioned by the London Evening Standard – a Remain paper – based on a sample of 2098 people. Interviewees were offered a No Deal vs Remain choice. Polling was conducted on 31st March and 1st April. Again, results by region were:

    London – Remain 48% No Deal 26%
    Rest of South – Remain 34% No Deal 44%
    Midlands/West/Wales – Remain 31% No Deal 46%
    North – Remain 34% No Deal 41%
    Scotland – Remain 47% No Deal 28%

    The combined population of London and Scotland is about 14 million. The combined population of the other areas is about 50 Million. If you weight the regional splits by these populations, No Deal probably has already a slight lead over Remain.

    I am therefore confident that Brexiteers can win through by Autumn in either a General Election or a second referendum provided that they organise properly. They need to produce a Brexiteers’ Manifesto for a two to five programme of Government and to ensure that Brexiteers vs the rest is the main line of fissure by reorganising political parties.

    It cannot be said often enough that the Conservative Party as presently constituted is as dead as the dodo. Conservative Eurosceptics need to make common cause at the polls with Nigel Dodds and the DUP, Kate Hoey and Labour leave, Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party and UKIP, and the Brexiteers’ Manifesto must be written accordingly. I am looking for Sir John Redwood’s acknowledgement of this.

    • Chris
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

      You are right, L M. There is a huge problem that some Cons MPs will never forgive Nigel Farage for being the person that really got us the Brexit vote, and won’t contemplate “holding their noses” and working with him. Still they plod on putting their own Party before the country. Their visceral loathing will be their downfall. Do the Cons MPs not realise they are the ones who are going to “crash out” because they would not stop Theresa May? Rather ironic.

      The only way that Brexit is going to be delivered is by all pro sovereignty politicians working together. War requires “strange/uncomfortable bedfellows”. This is a war, a war for our freedom. The lock that May is proposing in her latest deal planning with Corbyn is to prevent her successor (who she fears will be Johnson apparently) from undoing her deal.

  53. Denis Cooper
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    Given that Churchill was prepared to make a pact with Stalin I wish the present day Tories would stop objecting that Jeremy Corbyn is a Marxist. However while saying that I would also suggest that any cross-party pact made to assemble enough Commons votes to get the Withdrawal Agreement through should be time limited, say five or ten years, and that temporary or transitional nature of the compromise agreement should also be reflected in any changes which are made to the text of the Political Declaration or any new unilateral or joint documents attached to it. It is not unusual for it to be written in that a treaty will apply for a specified maximum period, perhaps with the possibility of renewal, rather than in perpetuity. Theresa May claims that she wants us to have an independent trade policy Jeremy Corbyn claims that he wants us to have a say in the EU’s trade policy so it should not be impossible to find some form of words which will enable both, and indeed the EU, to agree to a time-limited, constructively ambiguous, compromise on that.

  54. Tad Davison
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    We depend upon our political representatives to highlight such things LL, but they won’t because most of them are pro-EU toadies. Somebody needs to make the case. We are pinched at home and are forced to make drastic cuts to vital services, yet May and Hammond are quite content to throw money at the EU to pay for their failed projects and indolence.

    It kinda makes ya sick doesn’t it!

  55. javelin
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

    Just to report on the comments section in the media. I would now say over 50% of comments are “post betrayal”. That it to say they are not saying if or when May betrays them but what to do now she has betrayed them.

    The mood has moved on from frustration, accusations and anger to planning how to destroy the Conservative party. The 2020s is not going to be a good decade to be a Conservative or Labour MP unless full Brexit is delivered.

    • javelin
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      Just to add. Normally sentiment moves away from a Party to the opposition because the opposition pull the floating voters away.

      It appears to me the strongest emotions rejecting bothmain parties is now from their core voters. Neither Labour nor Conservatives will benefit.

      We are in hung Parliament with both parties about to lose even more support. This opens the way for a minority party to make demands. The SNP being the largest and most likely to for a coalition with Labour and the Liberals. These will take the UK back into the EU.

      As a result the Conservatives will no longer have credentials to leave the EU and voters will move to a new party. A decade of chaos will follow because of Therea May. She has single handedly destabilised the whole country for a generation.

      • Chris
        Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

        You forget to add to your last sentence, javelin:
        “…..and Cons MPs let her do it”. History will deal brutally with them. The majority of them failed to look at the bigger picture, being so enveloped by the Westminster bubble. They were simply unable or unwilling to recognise the scale of the betrayal of the country and the electorate, nor the destruction of our democracy that was taking place. They were instead blinded by utter determination to save the Party, and at all costs. They will not be forgiven.

    • Timperley
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

      Agreed, never voted Labour can no longer vote Conseravtive and nature abhors a vacuum. Actually now looking to what comes next.

  56. An idea...
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    The concrete-headed behaviour of many Tories, who have in the past three years become fanatics in a cause they couldn’t have cared less about in 2010, and still don’t understand, is the reason for this.

    >
    Peter, as you know I secretly like you, (but one day you are surely going to have to explain why you write things like that)? Your entire article (as so often) is thwarting evil government psyops even though you are playing along with their narrative, (yet here you seem to add this snip yet again urging MPs to surrender to May and Merkel). Why?
    I am struggling to make excuses for you in my mind for this. Can you write an article explaining again your thinking. The problem with the WA (is it was DESIGNED to be as bad as possible i,e staying in the EUI with no control), in PREPARATION for a second referendum. The only logical choice being to Remain.

    Thanks.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      Yup.
      The entire thing has been a complete hoax!
      And as usual we, the tax paying people have been taken for mugs.
      What a cruel,cruel joke from start to finish.

    • Special K
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

      I wrote to him saying this:

      Concrete headedness is what is needed against something like the EU. There is no use meeting trouble half way.

      You want out of the EU and the destruction of the Tory Party. Did you think it was going to be painless ? Better a catastrophic ending than a never ending catastrophe.

  57. NickW
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    May’s approach to Brexit is guided by Juncker, who said apropos of the Greek Financial crisis

    “When it becomes serious, you have to lie.” (Google “Juncker quotes” or similar).

    Which is why May stated the bald faced lie that her deal would free us of the jurisdiction of the ECJ, when it does the exact opposite; tying our hands completely and barring us from the use of our own Courts or International Arbitration for the resolution of disputes.

    May’s political epitaph will be, “Here lies Theresa May, You cannot believe a word she’d say.”

    • Chris
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

      Epitaph very apt, NickW.

  58. Iain Moore
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    The problem is not just n the language they use , its in the questions they ask , as well as the questions they choose not to ask of the other side.

  59. NickW
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

    Play them at their own game;

    “Public dissent, open disagreement between Member States and economic stagnation make the EU a burning building which we have to leave before it’s too late.”

    Wasn’t there an I.D.S. quote about the Euro constituting a burning building with no exits?

  60. Helen Taylor
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    John Do you think that we can get some sort of dialogue going about how the eu has changed and what sort of eu are they trying to get us to stay in. The eu is a never ending squeeze on democracy. No one ever mentions the central taxation system or army and yet Verhofstad is continually making reference to more integration. Apart from the elections we have the Lisbon treaty to contend with. Before any referendum takes place if that is what she is calling for. We need a thorough discussion on what the eu is becoming. That is the one thing that has never been discussed

  61. George Brooks
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    Firsrly Sir John, thank you for two excellent interviews on TV, especially C4 Thursday evening. Krishnan Guru – Murthy was going apoplectic and you did let him talk you down as he kept on squeaking ”not true not true”. Out side the Westminster bubble the majority vin the country want to leave and leave quickly.

    On the front page of the Sunday Times Business section (top right) is the information ignored by the broadcast media and remainers which illustrates exactly why we should leave.

    12 multinational companies based in the UK are being faced with a £1bn tax bill which HMRC is being directed by the EU to collect as the EU has judged that a ‘loop hole’ in our tax law is not in line with EU law. It seems there is no redress and it is not certain that the judgement is fair

    The EU will do anything to damage our economy

  62. Remington Norman
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    John,

    Fine words – and correct. Brexiteers have made no serious effort to counter the well orchestrated strategy of the Remainers. If you can do no more than talk, you are finished.

    • Steve
      Posted April 7, 2019 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

      The quiet ones, are the ones you don’t want to pick a fight with.

      We are not done.

  63. Fred H
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

    We need Cabinet and other Ministers to resign en bloc in protest about Mrs May courting Corbyn. I can see lots of votes moved to UKIP/ Independents from the big 2 parties, for very different reasons. GE turnout will be much lower than usual, with the result that MPs with fewer than perhaps 3 to 5,000 majority will be in real danger.

  64. Stephen O
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    I think that the reason why the mainstream media (MSM) do this is an important question. It is fairly clear that they regard it as their job to challenge ‘extreme’ views to give a ‘correct’ representation of the facts as they see it, not to take a neutral stance. They view our host as a man of extremist views and so is best deal with by either under reporting his views or ensuring they are vigorously challenged when they are allowed to be reported.

    Clearly most of the MSM have views that are extremely different from our leave voting host. The majority of the country voted to leave and additionally many remain voters accepted the verdict of the referendum so expect the will of the people to be respected. To my mind it is the MSM who represent extremist views, not accepting that the verdict of the referendum should be respected or that remaining in the EU in defiance of the referendum result is not compatible with democracy. While our host occupies the center ground, agreeing with the referendum result and also that the democratic vote should be obeyed.

    Sir John, how will you challenge the extremists of the MSM?

    If we leave with no deal and the predicted crash does not occur, this will discredit the MSM and be another huge benefit of leaving!

  65. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    The main broadcasting media are all anti-Brexit propagandists. They flout the Broadcasting code of impartiality on a daily basis and their regulator Ofcom does nothing (guess they’re anti-Brexit too).
    I watched your interview on Channel 4 News last Friday and heard Krishnan Guru-Murthy continually interrupt you and say you were lying because you said most voters want to leave EU with no-deal. There is evidence to support your assertion but I have seen no apology or correction from Channel 4 (Fake) News or Guru-Murphy.

  66. Steve Pitts
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Given Corbyn is effectively deputy Prime Minister in what way is Mrs May a conservative? I mean Corbyn is invited to join the talks with the EU so he must be part of a coalition with Mrs May in effect. I was in favour of no deal but wouldn’t we have been better off with the WA than this?

  67. Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

    Given the way you were treated on Channel 4 News the other day, it seems that it matters not what you say because they will :

    (1) Shout you down and call you a liar
    (2) Edit the clip on their website to erase the first two minutes and get straight to the abuse section

    Your restraint was admirable

  68. Bob Layson
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

    Self-government: Australia has it, Canada has it, New Zealand has it. Why should the UK be denied it as if unfit for it?

  69. agricola
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

    Today May has presented parliament and the people with two options, accept my deal or remain in the EU, while pretending her deal (WA) answers all our concerns.

    The only question is how much longer will the Conservative party wait before demanding she go in the face of absolutely no cooperation from her party in the Commons. I suspect that there would be little objection from party members or those who normally vote consevative.

  70. Denis Cooper
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    I’ve just watched Sky News continuing with its campaign to stop Brexit by exaggerating the problems which will arise at the Irish border in the event of us leaving the EU without a deal – largely invented problems which Theresa May could have sorted out eighteen months ago if she had chosen to do that, rather than using them as a pretext to keep us under the economic thumb of the EU to placate the Tory party’s friends in the CBI.

  71. nhsgp
    Posted April 7, 2019 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    Soft Hard
    comfortable tough
    comfy callous
    easy dense
    flexible inflexible
    fluffy stony
    smooth unyielding
    velvety thick
    cozy
    chushy

    Notice the bias

    Why not clear versus messy?

    It’s because the BBC is biased and breaking the law.

  72. An idea...
    Posted April 8, 2019 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    Self-government: Australia has it, Canada has it, New Zealand has it. Why should the UK be denied it as if unfit for it?

    >
    We live near Germany.

  73. An idea...
    Posted April 8, 2019 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    John, Hitchens wrote this weeks article to try to provoke the ERG to call a GE. i.e Both May and Corbyn, not a fag between them etc. He just let me know.

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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