Those who relaunch Project Fear aim to damage our country

Only if the EU believes we are leaving on October 31 without  signing the Withdrawal Agreement do we have a reasonable chance of leaving tariff free.

The new PM needs to tell the EU we are leaving, but we would be happy to negotiate a Free Trade Agreement after departure allowing the EU continued access to us tariff free and for us to them. All they need to do is agree talks.

The peddlers of false Project Fear forecasts clearly want to stop us getting such an agreement.

 

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243 Comments

  1. Pominoz
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Your statement here is so bloomin’ obvious, it is rather surprising that the likes of Hammond and his thirty odd cronies who want to block ‘no deal’ cannot grasp it.

    On the other hand, they grasp it very well indeed, but wish to thwart the democratic decision to follow their own personal agendas. Sounds like treason..

    • J Bush
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

      Agreed, it does indeed sound like treason.

      I would really like them to explain why they think they have the right to overrule a democratic vote over over 17 million? Without the usual ‘we know best’ garbage. Because if they repeat that lame excuse, they also need to explain how thousands of entrepreneurial people have set up and run successful businesses, if the populace is so thick?

      • rose
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

        The most hysterical (in both senses) performance was by John Major last night on the Sackur programme. Even Sackur reacted against it.

        This morning we have the carefully leaked and published emails from Darroch, not telling us anything we didn’t already know about Darroch – that he would be much happier as a BBC (person ed) than as one of Her Majesty’s most senior diplomatists.

        • stred
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:05 am | Permalink

          Darroch should be recalled immediately and promoted to the Ambassador to the Congo.

      • Newmania
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

        John Major spoke as Conservative with authority precision and truth. He was inspirational.
        Treason? When we are throwing money at Brexit,; “one on one” help for challenged children had been virtually withdrawn. Getting a E.H.C.P is impossible so the disadvantaged are dumped into the care system . Do you have any idea what this does to a child ?
        You hurt children, attack jobs and families, leave the country a pitiful fantasist bar-fly,you care for no-one and nothing .If you want to start name calling I have a few for you …..

        • NickC
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

          Newmania, All that tosh just because you want the UK to be a colony of the EU. Incredible! I doubt it even convinces you, and it certainly doesn’t convince us. Why shouldn’t we apply to be the 51st state of the USA rather than a colony of the EU empire? You have no answer, because you have already given up our independence.

        • Anonymous
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

          John Major cast the Tories into oblivion for three terms and they’ve never fully recovered.

          We are not aiming for *no deal* but to not have it on the table… well … we would have been better voting for remain.

          I’d rather starve than let you win.

          • stred
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:11 am | Permalink

            And he wrote in the German press asking for a bad deal for his country. That’s treason.

        • dixie
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

          What a load of rubbish, leaving the EU has nothing whatsoever to do with getting children assessed, statemented or through the EHCP process.

          Instead, you might consider that high levels of unnecessary inward migration and increased call on local and welfare services are more likely the issue. Something leaving the EU may actually do something to reduce.

          What will you blame on Brexit next, the increase in tomato blight?

          • Newmania
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:06 am | Permalink

            Migration for the EU helps pay for services and I am making the uncontroversial point that Brexit is sucking up available funds leaving our children short changed.
            Learn to do sums and then talk to me I am just sick of trying to explain the obvious again and again and again

          • dixie
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

            Continuing the lie that migration only has positive effects does not help your case.

            The remainer chancellor has been blocking investment and expenditure on Brexit. Meanwhile the remainers have prolonged our exit unnecessarily, causing more money to be channeled to the EU rather than our own priorites – including our children.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

          John Major was a dire PM, as appalling as May. As Chancellor idiotically took us into the ERM and wanted to take us into the Euro. It was a total disaster as sensible people and sound economists had predicted. Mortgage rates went up to circa 17%. “If it is not hurting it is not working” the halfwitted ministers said and “if we come out interest rates will go up further” just before they fell like a stone. The pathetic John Major did not even apologise for the Lillian’s jobs and businesses destroyed, the countless houses repossessed, the marriages and relationships destroys, the suicides …. Yet the BBC treat the dope as a wise elder statesman! He does have the excuse that he is remarkably thick. Why on earth did Thatcher give the job of Chancellor to someone who left school with only three O levels and non of them numerate or science?

          • Lifelogic
            Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

            million’s of lost jobs

        • libertarian
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:07 am | Permalink

          Newmania

          As the ( unpaid) Chairman of a Children’s Charity who are involved with EHCP I can tell you that you are talking utter Bo******ks . The problems with funding child care have existed for many years whilst members the EU

          Using this kind of argument to try to score pathetic political points is beneath contempt and you ought to be thoroughly ashamed of yourself

          I’m sick of people like you who have no experience of the real world , contribute nothing , yet continually whine about losing a vote 4 times straight

          • Newmania
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:45 am | Permalink

            The number of children and young people waiting more than doubled from 1,710 in 2016 to 4,050 in 2017 – my personal experience is that it has got a lot worse since.
            One to one help was withdrawn on our local school last year.
            These children are often also being passed around foster carers who will give up. As have also been cut right back and they also helped with the same group of vulnerable children
            Whilst the problems may go back years there has been a step change in the last two years joining with the longer term trend to close special schools .
            This is dire betrayal and it has taken place while we have been throwing money into the sea to pay for Brexit and will go on doing so

            As for your further claims of personal magnificence ..this is an anonymous internet thread. Who knows , who cares

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:23 am | Permalink

          Due to the growing number of children the funding required for statementing and education in general is inadequate.

          This while we are in the EU. Maybe we should try something different.

      • margaret howard
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

        J Bush

        “why they think they have the right to overrule a democratic vote over over 17 million?”

        The same criteria applies to the 16m who voted Remain. The first past the post system we have in our elections is undemocratic and not fit for purpose as is the referenda result where half the nation’s voters were ignored.

        EXIT BREXIT!

        • Woody
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

          Less than half lost. There is no ignored when all were given the opportunity to vote. Please no hypocrisy about not every one voted … everyone had the chance and the referendum was the largest democratic procedure in UK history. Scientific analysis has established that the larger the number of people involved in such decisions the greater the chance of the result being the best for all. It’s sad to keep hearing this call for the minority to have more rights than the majority. There is no compromise in a leave / don’t leave decision.

          • margaret howard
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

            Woody

            “the larger the number of people involved in such decisions the greater the chance of the result being the best for all. ”

            That’s why the overwhelming Remain vote in both Scotland and Ireland will eventually compel their governments to leave the union and become independent EU members

            It’s just a matter of time. Incidentally Gibraltar voted 96% remain. What do you suggest should happen there to ensure democracy is guaranteed?

        • NickC
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

          Margaret Howard, You accepted the validity before the vote. There are only two options available: in or out. So there can be nothing more democratic than a majority in a binary referendum.

          • Newmania
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:14 am | Permalink

            But it was not binary and the way this farce has been inflicted on us is not due to the referendum it is due to the two Party duopoly we suffer both of whom support Brexit.

            The fact our system is utterly undemocratic is something even Mr Farrage has noticed

          • NickC
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

            Newmania, Can’t you read? Margaret Howard stated that the referendum – which did not depend on the two party duopoly – was undemocratic. Indeed people from almost every party were on each side. It is difficult to see how a binary question (yes it was; it was Remain/Leave or In/Out) referendum could be more democratic. Certainly neither of you have advanced a better scenario. And you both accepted the 2015 Referendum Act before the vote, as did both campaigns.

        • Jiminyjim
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

          ‘Not fit for purpose’, Margaret? So only your view, matters, not the electoral law, nor the recent vote to change the voting system, which was overwhelmingly rejected in a referendum? You belong in the undemocratic EU, Margaret.

          • margaret howard
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

            Jiminy

            “”In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

            Nigel Farage

        • Anonymous
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

          Remain lose = we remain in the EU.

          What was the point in the referendum if Remain wins even when they lose ???

        • formula57
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

          @ margaret howard

          So should the Referendum been held on a STV (or some variant) basis rather than the effectively FPTP basis that it was conducted upon?

          • Newmania
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:17 am | Permalink

            It should not have been held at all it was not a subject high on the agenda of anyone outside UKIP and plenty more issues might be submitted to referendum
            Tax, Nationalisation , Crime / Punishment – are you seriously suggesting the country could be run by asking the advice of everyone who has no idea what they are talking about at every turn ?

          • libertarian
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:13 am | Permalink

            Newmania

            You are quite possibly the dimmest person on here . If it was of no interest to people how come your side lost the 2014 EU elections, the 2016 referendum, the 2017 general election and the 2019 EU elections ?

            For your information binary means two. There were ONLY 2 options, stay or leave. It was quite clear that if we voted to leave then we would leave deal or no deal ( as per the rules of A50) The House of Commons then voted to ratify the result and to trigger A50.

            Switzerland, ( the most successful, healthiest, freest, richest country on the planet) is run almost entirely by Direct Democracy ( referenda) So YES thats exactly what we should do. Not least of which every day working people have far more insight into the reality than self proclaimed experts in ivory towers

          • margaret howard
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

            libertarian

            Comparing conditions in Switzerland with those in the UK is about the biggest idiocy going. Talking about accusing others of being dim……………!

          • libertarian
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

            Margaret howard

            No I think being unable to read a simple post is the height of dim Margaret. Your friend Newmania said it was stupidity to govern by referendum, I simply pointed out that Switzerland does this successfully . I made no comparison between Switzerland and the UK. I bet you feel totally stupid now.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

          MH

          IT WAS NOT AN ELECTION

          It was a binary referendum, there is NO other way of conducting a binary referendum . You lost , live with it

    • Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      Yes. It’s appalling that our own Chancellor should be attempting to undermine the well being of our country in this way.

      • hans chistian ivers
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        L Jones,

        There are different interpretations of what he said and yours is just one of them

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:15 am | Permalink

          Hans, And so is yours.

    • bigneil
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

      Pom – – “Sounds like treason..” – -if it sounds like treason – -looks like treason – – -IT’S TREASON.

  2. Tory in Cumbria
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    The EU has made it clear a thousand times that it will commence talks with the UK only once the UK has fulfilled its already agreed commitments on the Irish backstop, citizens rights and liability for existing debts. So why are you peddling this nonsense?

    • Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:55 am | Permalink

      No they have not!

    • oldtimer
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:31 am | Permalink

      In the words of the EU’s negotiating brief “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”. May failed to persuade the HoC to endorse the WA she negotiated. It has failed. The default position is “third country” status. Those who believe they can resurrect to WA are living in cloud cuckoo land. Johnson’s stated position (kick the can down the road and the Tory party kicks the bucket) is unquestionably correct. It also respects the referendum result which is the fundamental issue at stake – not the future of the Tory party.

    • agricola
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

      It is all designed to make your weekend less comfortable. Additionally we find it entertaining that such odd thinking still thrives. It is like a target that flips up for five seconds. Is it a baddy, do we kill it.

    • stred
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      Facts4eu covers the article by Global Britain showing that the UK has a lot more to lose than £39bn if we ‘leave’ on the May/Robbins WA colonial treaty terms.

    • Frances Truscott
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      Why are you so keen to let the Eu set the negotiating terms?

    • J Bush
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:32 am | Permalink

      Err no.

      What the EU has done is contravene its own laws and have failed to behave fairly. The recent EU ‘fly-on-the-wall’ documentary, which I understand was only released on BBC 4, but widely reported elsewhere proves this.
      https://brexitcentral.com/bbc4s-brexit-documentary-should-be-compulsory-viewing-before-voting-in-the-european-election/

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

      In that case, don’t talk to the EU, talk to the member countries instead, whose economies will be damaged by loss of preferential access to the UK marketplace.
      Let the member countries talk to the EU.
      Money talks.

      • Bellboy
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 11:42 am | Permalink

        Dave Andrews, ‘money talks’ ? Well no it doesn’t, if it did, we wouldn’t be in this mess. Politics trumped economics when we voted in 2016, just the same as EU politics will trump economics as far as the Eu is concerned. It’s all gone way past being reasonable now into the realm of Widdecombe madness with no way back.

        • NickC
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

          Bellboy, We’re in this mess because Remains like Hammond have prevented us leaving the EU treaties. We would be better off out. But the main reason is not economic (whoever heard of a colony prospering?) it is to restore our political and legal independence from the EU.

      • Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

        My dear, even proportionally the Brexiteers won – 17 million is more than 16 million ….

    • Tabulazero
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Because the day when Mr Redwood assertion that the UK holds all the cards is close to being tested and we will all know that he has been wrong all along.

      Reply If we just leave, the EU will want all sorts of things and will make offers.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

        The EU will want the UK to sign the withdrawal agreement it spent 3 years negotiating, that is for sure

        • Pete S
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

          3 years negotiating. Who did that ? It was not DEXU, so who did it. As the Verhofstatdt video showed, we accepted ALL the EU terms and conditions as colonies are expected to do.

          There was NO negotiating, Quisling MAY sold out the UK. Along with her civil service collaborators.

        • Fed up with the bull
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:41 am | Permalink

          Tab. Well that’s tough then. The EU can’t always get what it wants. That’s life. What is so wrong that a country wants to leave the EU? If they can do trade deals with other countries then why not us? We are supposed to be friends. We have a lot of history but it seems to count for nothing. It’s all talk and if nothing goes their way they don’t want to know. Well we’ve had enough of being dictated to.

        • Richard1
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

          I’m sure it will – hand over a great bung for no return, which isn’t owed under the treaties, and leave UK trade policy forever in hoc to the EU. Sometimes you can overplay your hand when negotiating with a weak oppo as Mrs May has been. The deal is so bad the UK won’t agree it. Then it will be up to the EU as to whether to start a trade war.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

          Tabulazero…..you REALLY think there was 3 years of ‘negotiating’?
          The bulk of it was prepared by the EU during the year prior to our REF.
          They organised the team and tactics to face down the UK, and ‘she’ just folded in pathetic acceptance. A ‘bloody difficult woman’ was in fact a pushover. Anyone with any common sense and balls- got up and walked away.

          • Jiminyjim
            Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

            There may be some of you out there who understand German? If so, you might have spotted that there are several places in the WA that show very clearly that it was written originally in German and then translated into English. What does this tell you?

          • margaret howard
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

            Jiminy

            ” show very clearly that it was written originally in German”

            Not that old chestnut AGAIN!

            Maybe David Icke wrote in Reptilian?

        • Arthur Wrightiss
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:26 am | Permalink

          Of course they will.Its the most one sided “ agreement “ in the history of one sided agreements…in their favour.

        • 'None of the above'.
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

          Give me strength! What is it about ‘leaving’ that you don’t understand?

        • John Hatfield
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

          Then it will be disappointed.

        • Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

          Did you mistakenly type ”negotiating” when you meant to type ”writing”?

          • stred
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:21 am | Permalink

            I look forward to my wife buying less French cheese and seeing fewer BMWs undertaking on the motorways. Somerset brie is excellent.

    • Dave
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:53 am | Permalink

      What already agreed commitments? May surrender agreement was rejected 3 times in the HoC . Without being ratified we aren’t committed to anything.

    • margaret howard
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 11:25 am | Permalink

      Tory in Cumbria

      Hear Hear!
      ===
      JR

      Reply to reply:

      Cloud cuckoo land?

      • NickC
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

        Margaret Howard, Why do you want us to be an impoverished colony of the EU empire, rather than a prosperous democratic 51st state of the rich powerful USA republic?

    • David in Kent
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

      Those were not ‘agreed commitments’ as parliament, wisely, refused to ratify the Barnier/May deal.

    • Woody
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

      The Irish backstop is a nonsense … there is no real border issue in Ireland as the current arrangements with differing currencies and differing tax regimes do not require a hard border … the citizens rights has been resolved if the eurocrats bothered to listen … and we owe NOTHING.

  3. Emily Jones
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    OMG, you STILL think this is about tariffs! You are about 60 years out of date. Obstacles to international trade are 99% non tariff barriers, but you don’t even understand that!

    ReplyTry reading the WTO excellent Facilitation of trade agreement which the EU accepts

    • stred
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

      Two remainer agents up already. They must be getting worried.

    • Emily Jones
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:25 am | Permalink

      I read it. It contains no binding obligations to remove non tariff barriers. Did you read it but not understand it?

      • Zorro
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

        Oh you mean like we have in the EU when trying to do business in France/Germany. There is no effective single market for services in the EU either even after 40 years membership and we still pay billions to be a member of the club!

        Zorro

    • dixie
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:48 am | Permalink

      Actually this is all about sovereignty and a free trade agreement does not just address tariffs.

    • Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:56 am | Permalink

      Remainer = comment/insult.

      Also ill-informed.

    • acorn
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      The Trade Facilitation Agreement will have no impact on any kind of Brexit. It was requested by and specifically written for developing and lesser developed countries, to upgrade their customs procedures into the 21st Century, so they can play with the big boys.

      Reply Not true. it us a comprehensive document applying to all members

      • graham1946
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

        And the lesser developed countries are discriminated against by the EU tariff wall in order to protect rich countries like Germany and France against competition. They are scared witless of the UK being outside. If not, why do they not simply allow an FTA. If it’s such a wonderful thing to belong to, no other member states will want to leave, especially as the majority of them are takers, not givers. Competition, that’s the real problem for the sclerotic EU.

        • acorn
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

          The EU and its Member States are the world’s leading providers of trade facilitation support. Over the five-year period 2008-2012 (latest available figures), the EU and its Member States collectively provided a total of over EUR 700 million for Trade Facilitation, which corresponds to more than 50% of the total support over the period. The EU alone provided EUR 428 million or 31% of the total support. This support will continue with the EU aiming to maintain its current level of support to trade facilitation over a five-year period starting from the signature of the Trade Facilitation Agreement, namely EUR 400 million over five years. (WTO TFAF)

          • graham1946
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:52 am | Permalink

            Then why no FTA with the UK?

            Give us a proper answer.

            The sums you specify are shirt buttons compared to what we pay to the EU. You mention 1128 million Euros over 11 years. That’s about one months contribution to the EU from the UK, spread over 29 countries. Wow!

          • NickC
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

            Acorn, Is that towards helping the Africans who have been impoverished because the EU has stolen their fish?

    • Original Richard
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:27 am | Permalink

      EJ, Yes, although we are supposed to be a member of the EU and pay a large fee we have always suffered from these “non tariff” barriers and hence why we have a £100bn/YEAR trading deficit with the EU.

      This is why I’m actually in favour of leaving with “no (trade) deal” and trading on WTO terms.

  4. Mark B
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Good morning – again.

    I am sorry Sir John Redwood MP, sir but you post today does have a touch of, ‘deja vous’ about it. Three wasted years worth.

    I do not want to hear words, I want to see ACTION !!! Just start preparing for WTO exit. No need to pontificate.

  5. Nigl
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Allegedly 30 MPs rallying around ‘spreadsheet’ Phil and ‘Let em out’ Gauke to prevent No Deal. Did not the Brexit Party’s European election success fought on a single issue, tell them anything. Presumably too arrogant to care.

    Andrea Leadsom has said that although the WDA is dead, Boris will keep parts of it. Were there any ‘good bits’. This worries me. Please enlighten us.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:59 am | Permalink

      Dear Nigl–I have no time for Hammond or Gauke but the (non) agreement is nearly 600 pages long and heinous though it is I suspect there are a page or two we could accept

      • Nigl
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

        Leslie. I am sure you are correct but I do not trust anyone so need assurances that leave really means leave not a little ‘dab of whitewash’ here and there.

    • stred
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:09 am | Permalink

      The bit about citizens rights to stay in the EU and UK with recognition of professional qualifications seemed to be sensible, minus the excess rights for EU citizens in the UK. Otherwise it’s colonialism.

      • rose
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

        The bit about citizens’ rights creates two tiers of citizens, them and us, with them having more rights, and all overseen by the ECJ for a very long time, perhaps a hundred years, and including people not yet born. There was no need for any of this, other than to establish yet more EU control. All Brexiteers wanted to welcome EU people already here straight away after the referendum and we should revert to that position and talk directly to the countries about our people.

        • Caterpillar
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

          Rose,

          I agree that the most should be those that are here as of the referendum date should have the right stay. After the referendum date is less clear. I say most because I do not think it is clear that recent EU citizens should have more claim than BNOs in HK.

        • matthu
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

          I have a nasty feeling that the EU will use citizens’ rights in future rather like they use health and safety today i.e. as a means of controlling environmental standards, taxation and unemployment benefits, minimum wages and employee benefits etc.

          • rose
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

            I am sure you are right. This is what they did to the Single Market.

      • John Sheridan
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

        “…minus the excess rights for EU citizens in the UK”

        Exactly, it must be without the excess rights for EU citizens and without ECJ oversight. The rights of EU citizens should never be greater than those of UK citizens.

  6. Ian Wragg
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    Hammond and company are a disgrace and I hope they get their collars felt when this is all over.
    It’s a good job we have Nigel in the background to assist with proceedings.

  7. Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    This has been clear from the start that those invoking ‘project fear’ have done so to deliberately harm us or to put us on the back feet ..

    Given that, shouldn’t the public have recourse to some kind of justice against them – After all, they are doing so much more damage to the country than people who are being prosecuted for exposing the truth about pedophiles and so on…

    Honesty and justice have been taking a back seat lately, and it is time to restore them.

    • Andy
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      You needn’t worry. There will ultimately be prosecutions over Brexit.

      But it will be Brexiteers held to account – for lying, cheating and treating their country with criminal gross negligence.

      It will be immensely satisfying when the cell doors slam shut.

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

        Hello, Andy. Yawn. Yet another repeat I see. You must be short of grey stuff as you think that repeating the same old factless and baseless rubbish time after time will eventually get people to believe you. You’re deluded, mate

        • formula57
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

          Oh come now, it worked for New Labour for a long while.

      • Ian!
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

        Once passed the referendum. Your MP’s posted in their manifestoes we would just leave the EU if it was up to them. 500+ MP’s passed a Law in Parliament that we would just leave the EU – So be careful who you call liars.

        Project fear seems to have found a home in Andy, it is your remainer friends that are unable to keep to the Law of the land.

      • Glenn Vaughan
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Like all authoritarians with a fascist mentality, your only desire is to lock up people who disgree with your revolting ideology.

        For my part I have no desire to see you imprisoned despite your offensive rants on this website. However, I would be happy to offer you the option of a blindfold.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

        Keep up, one attempted prosecution has just been thrown out of court.

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2019/07/05/the-conservative-leadership-election-3/#comment-1034578

      • Fred H
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

        Andy…..dream on mate, if it makes you any happier.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

        Andy, So why do you think we should be ruled as a colony by the EU empire, rather than become an equal state of the rich powerful democratic USA? You have no answer because you’ve already given up the principle of independence.

    • Shirley
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      My sentiments exactly. What little democracy we had left is being eroded under our very eyes. Lies, dishonesty, spin, and actual fraudulent claims, are the lynch pin of many in Parliament today.

      We need to be able to recall MP’s, whatever the reason. If they have enough support they will be re-elected. If not, then we be rid of another undemocratic self serving politician.

  8. Lifelogic
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    Exactly.

    I see that Fiona Bruce is now defending the massive pro Brexit Bias of panelists on Question Time by including those who now ‘claim’ to have changed their mind to become pro Brexit. But to reflect the public views fairly there should be about 52% who supported Brexit at the referendum plus those who now think the referendum should be respected. So perhaps about 75% pro Brexit supporters in total. Doubtless the BBC will stick to one about 20% pro Brexit and 80% remain on the programme and indeed on Any Questions too plus about 100% of BBC presenters.

    Do they not have any duty to be impartial?

    BBC bias on Climate Alarmism and lefty magic money tree, big state economics is even more extreme and idiotic than it is over the EU.

    • John Sheridan
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:01 am | Permalink

      “…who now ‘claim’ to have changed their mind…”

      Many of those who claim to have changed their mind are looking for a Brexit in name only. Hence their support for May’s Withdrawal Treaty.

      Brexit bias by the BBC continues unabated.

    • Bob
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      @lifelogic #BBCQT
      You’ll soon be getting fed up with watching re-runs of the EU Referendum campaign each week.

      • stred
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:34 am | Permalink

        There is a campaign to sue the BBC taking donations on Conservative Woman currently.

  9. Alan Jutson
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Your post today John is so bloody obvious I wonder why you have bothered to mention it, then I look at many of our Mp’s in Parliament and their statements over the last 3 years, and perhaps I understand. !

    • Bob
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      @AJ
      Only Quislings would approve of throwing away the UK’s leverage for a sensible trade deal.

      If they don’t want to be referred to a Quislings, then they should stop behaving like him and stand up for the country they are supposed to be representing.

  10. agricola
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    Absolutely correct. No deal may be less desirable than a FTA under negotiation and an interim agreed recourse to Art 24 of GATT to retain stability, but it must remain the sanction of last resort.

    Those who oppose no deal are really intent on blocking our departure from the EU. They are inheritantly dishonest and in denial of the referendum result, their own party manifesto, and their own weasel words.

    It also answers the EU’s criticism that they never understood what the UK wanted. It puts the ball firmly in the EU’s court.

    • hans chistian ivers
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

      Agricola,

      Art 24 does not apply here as there is no counter-party who wishes to participate

      • agricola
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

        I assume you must have discussed this with Barnier and industrial Europe to be able to make such a conviction statement. To the best of my knowledge, May and her remainer negotiators never brought the subject up because it was not part of her game plan. Lets see how they react when presented with this option. Their industrialists will have much to say if the EU reject it on political grounds. I most certainly would were I running Mercedes. The final option is to leave with no deal and let the EU sweat.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

          The industrialist in Europe have already side that they would rather prefer keeping the integrity of the Single-Market intact rather than let the British mess it up as they clutch at straws in a desperate bid to attempt to avoid the inevitable consequence of their own choice.

          • stred
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:40 am | Permalink

            The Japan and Korea free trade deals have already messed up single market protection for Mercedes.

          • graham1946
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

            There’s the real problem – mess up the Single Market by doing a trade deal with the UK. A protectionist racket that cannot withstand competition from the UK so it must be curtailed. Thanks for confirming what we already knew.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

            The EU is very happy to do a trade deal with the UK. It simply does not understand how the UK intend to do it without some form of border in Ireland.

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

        They are Hans, of course, entirely free to refuse to trade freely and openly. Tell me, though, why that would be in the interest of the citizens they represent? And why would they CHOOSE to take action that damages their own people? Come on, Hans, WHY?

        • Jiminyjim
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

          No reply yet again, Hans? How unintentionally revealing

    • Tabulazero
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

      Alright. So the sequence of events is going to be as follows:

      1. Boris Johnson (of all people) is going to bin the withdrawal agreement the EU and 27 countries agreed on after three years of painstaking negotiations.

      2. He is going to withhold paying £39bn in commitment the UK has entered into as a member of the EU

      3. He is then going to come back to all the 27 European leaders he has just mightily pissed off with point 1 & 2 and glibly ask them if they wouldn’t mind acquiescing to using the GATT article 24 in a manner for which this article was not designed for and for an uncertain amount of time and thus hand him a superb victory on the foreign policy front… because he just happens to be Boris.

      4. He is then going to hope that no one else in the WTO (starting with the US, China post Hong-Kong or Russia who has always the UK’s best interest at heart) is going to object to the EU and the UK having their cosy deal.

      What could possibly go wrong ?

      • agricola
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

        You might find yourself invited to join Corbyn’s shadow cabinet and take your negativity with you

        • Tabulazero
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

          It’s not negativity to point out that the flaw in your reasoning which is that basically you want Boris Johnson who has spent a career insulting the EU and European leaders to come back to the said leaders and ask them to do him a favour after having massively pissed off everyone in the room.

          • NickC
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

            Tabulazero, The EU has spent its career turning the UK into a colony. They said so. Maybe your guess is correct and the EU does want to cut off its own nose to spite itself on trade. That would be a safer and better outcome for the UK because the EU just cannot be trusted to be fair or reasonable. As the Brexit “negotiations” have already demonstrated.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

            “As the Brexit “negotiations” have already demonstrated.”

            You mean when the UK proposes to rely on nonexistent technologies to solve what is basically a political problem: the border in Northern Ireland ?

      • stred
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:49 am | Permalink

        They don’t get their colony and we don’t get Mercedes, Volkswagens and BMWs, flowers and smelly cheese. Brill.

      • Gareth Warren
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:48 am | Permalink

        Firstly, the company I work for manufactures and sells electronic equipment around the world.

        How it works is our sales team find customers who want our product, we sell at a price that includes tariffs – the USA is our largest market.#

        You may note there appears to be no government involvement in these exports, that it true, other than paying whatever taxes we need to the “man from government” does not help us, that it fine for us.

        As for Boris’s strategy, on its own talking to the EU will likely fail. But as the UK starts FTA’s with various countries the EU faces a very simple dilema. That is that EU products in the UK will be subject to taxes while non-EU ones won’t. It is very easy then to see what happens to EU sales to the UK with no FTA.

        Personally, I do believe the wretched WA they cling to may end up causing them to holdoff a FTA so long the US and others mostly replace them. That will cause a recession in the EU but not much of a problem for us.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink

        Tabulazero (Do you Remains take in turns to troll here?) – the sequence of events is not going to follow your guesses because:

        1. Theresa May’s dWA has already been binned by the UK Parliament, not Boris.

        2. The UK has not entered into any commitment to pay £39bn (see 1.).

        3. GATT ArtXXIV is legitimate and practical and can be utilised. The EU does not have to agree to use it. And it would be better for the UK if the EU didn’t. Keeping the EU at arms length is the healthiest option for the UK.

        4. If GATT ArtXXIV went ahead, it would obviously be with the blessing of the WTO. So neither the WTO nor its members would stop a UK/EU RTA – such deals happen regularly. Likely there’d be some objections but that is just normal diplomatic wrangling, not the show-stoppers you imagine.

  11. BR
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    Agreed.

    Hopefully Boris and his cabinet will start making the case for WTO etc.

    One thing he may need to do quickly is to replace CCHQ team with someone who changes the rules on de-selection to get those darned remoaners such as Grieve and co out before they can plot a coup. Or remove the whip from them.

    A coup attempt may even happen on 24/25th this month before the recess to circumvent proroguing Parliament (whereby they use a VoNC and the ensuing 14 days to install an ‘interim’ PM and try to push through all kinds of nonsense).

    There really does need to be a way to pull an MP when they go rogue – needing to be sentenced to 12 months should not be the only reason. And sliding off to another party or to become an independent should not provide cover either – change of party should automatically trigger a by-election.

  12. piet
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    The EU knows full well that you are leaving without a deal 31st Oct. Tusk & Co have already given an extension and there can be no more. In fact when they look at the Widdecombe and Farage performance they are not going to detain UK one bit longer than necessary. As someone else said there’s only six more EU parliamentary working days days left before Oct 31st, that’s if if they discount/suspend the last three session days. The EU knows some leavers would be happy to negotiate a FTA without agreeing the WA but that is not going to happen- it’s all pie in the sky stuff

    • Fred H
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

      Piet….you bring good news. Very reassuring that we can have our resignation finally accepted by 31st Oct.

      • Piet
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

        Fred H, you can walk out the door right now, nobody said you have to wait until October

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

          Piet, Yes, that’s what we want. Unfortunately our Remain establishment, think we can’t govern ourselves. They are obviously aware of their own limitations. However the intention is that Boris will sweep away these traitors. And if Boris (or Hunt?) don’t then Farage will.

  13. Andy
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Brexiteers – we are waiting for your decision.

    You can have your tariff free trade deal with the EU.

    You just need to decide where you will put the Irish border.

    That is literally all you have to do.

    Instead you pretend it is a choice you do not have to make.

    Alas.

    Your decision is simple. Break up the UK by putting the border down the Irish Sea – or break up the UK by putting it at the Irish border.

    Let us know.

    Incidentally I don’t claim to be a unionist so I don’t care very much.

    • Richard1
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      This issue is wholly contrived as is now becoming clear. No-one has suggested any impediments to people moving across the Irish border freely, as now. The minimal amount of (typically very small) trade can easily be handled without a border. It will be up to the EU to decide whether to force Eire to put one up. I can’t see that, they have enough other problems without gratuitously creating another.

      Now when this issue is shown to be ‘bollocks’ – to use a LibDem word – that really would be a case for prison for those who have been promulgating this falsehood don’t you think?

      • steve
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

        Richard 1

        “It will be up to the EU to decide whether to force Eire to put one up.”

        It wouldn’t surprise me at all. The EU is accustomed to threatening and bullying others.

        What I find interesting is the prospect of the EU doing just that, and Dublin expecting our help because they’re being bullied. Problem for them is; we won’t want to know because we remember the insults they directed at us.

        Same for anyone else……insult us now, expect us to gloat over your future misery.

    • Edward2
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      We, don’t have to do anything Andy.
      We, will not build a new border.
      Neither will the Republic of Ireland, they have said so many times.
      Presumably the EU will send in it’s new army and try to start building a wall.
      Like Stalin did in Berlin.

      • Fed up with the bull
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

        Edward2. At least then they could stop slagging off Trump for building a wall!!

        • Edward2
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

          True, but the policy of seperate zones and hard borders for those in the Russian sector began shortly after the war ended.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:13 am | Permalink

            Meant to be a reply to Doug Powell
            Apologies

      • Doug Powell
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

        Accuracy please!

        Stalin died in 1953, the Berlin Wall was constructed in 1961. The Russian president you had in mind was Khrushchev.

        • Mitchel
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

          The position of President was not created until March 1990-it had one office holder-Mikhail Gorbachev.The de jure(but purely symbolic) head of the Soviet state before then was the Chairman of the Praesidium of the Supreme Soviet.The actual leader was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union.

          Accuracy please!

          😉

          • Doug Powell
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

            Thank you!

      • hans chistian ivers
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

        Edward 2

        Try and be a bit more realistic in your debate, please

        • Edward2
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

          Hans
          thanks for the helpful advice.
          I will try hard to be as clever as you think you are.

          • libertarian
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

            ha ha

            That from Hans who has so far failed to provide a single fact or piece of evidence for his inane ramblings

      • Fred H
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

        The answer to the EU concern that goods will flood in to Ireland (thus defeating their protectionism) via N.Ireland, is to ensure these products do not have onward transfer to the EU once landed in Ireland. It wouldn’t be difficult to monitor trading levels existing from Ireland, to those after Brexit.

        • stred
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

          John Torode was cooking beef in Argentina yesterday and found that most of it from cattle fed on high calorie food which makes them ready to be slaughtered in less than a year. It’s still very tasty but very cheap. Grass feeding farms can’t compete.
          The tariff for NI will be zero, in order to allow S
          Irish produce in as now. What will happen to cheap Argie and Aus beef and how will higher tariffs for the rest of the UK be collected?

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      Maggie Pagano Telegraph article – if we stay associated with EU we are liable for any Euro bailout, potentially £400 + bn. Now that’s something for your children and grandchildren to worry about.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

      The EU have not offered tariff free trade – yet. You are not in charge of the negotiations so cannot make any such offer. The EU has said we must sign the whole stinking treaty to get free trade, but the kicker is that we need do nothing. The legislative die is cast for Brexit without further ado. That’s what sticks in your craw. It is coming, so leave your dreams about remaining and locking people up where they are, in your dreams.

    • Jiminyjim
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      And another repeat. Can’t you find anything new to say, Andy? Sad. It must be really boring living with you

    • Lazlo
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

      Andy, we all know that the Irish border will eventually be drawn between Scotland and England- no doubt about it, all courtesy of the ERG bangers

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:35 am | Permalink

        Lazlo, Rubbish. If the Scots had voted in 2014 for independence there would already have been a hard border between Scotland and England well before the EU referendum was even held. That’s what the SNP wanted, not the ERG.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

      I’m not a unionist either; European Union that is.

  14. matthu
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Given how the EU are intent on using financial services and energy threats to turn the screw on the Swiss, how will the UK protect its own energy supplies in the event of a trade dispute?

    • acorn
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:22 am | Permalink

      There is an agreement drafted that the Swiss won’t sign. Mainly because employees in Swiss stock exchanges are much higher paid than on the EU side, they will not be competitive under the new terms. The Swiss are allowed t0 trade in the EU Energy markets and can’t afford to to lose access to that.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

        Acorn, No, the EU are trying to make Switzerland part of the EU (subject to EU laws and courts) by the back door.

  15. Dominic
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    If Hunt does secure the leadership this nation will die

    • Doug Powell
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      Yes, ‘Son of May’ would be a disaster – what a pity he, and the Remoaners can’t, or won’t see it!

      If it happens, I’m sure his first action on taking office would be to make May Foreign Secretary. This would give her free reign to grovel to the EU to her heart’s content, which would then put her in pole position for achieving a unique treble:

      1) The worst Prime Minister this country has ever had;

      2) The worst Home Secretary this country has ever had;

      3) The worst Foreign Secretary this country has ever had.

  16. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    This “reasonable chance” would depend on the Brexiteers interpretation od a GATT article 24. However GATT XXIV cannot be invoked unilaterally.
    The thought here seems to be that the UK holds the stronger cards in the negotations with the EU27: “the EU has more to lose because they sell us more then we sell them”.
    This reasoning looks at absolute figures. But the % of EU exports to the UK affected by no-deal tariffs and non-tariff barriers is much smaller that vice versa.
    The Brexiteer-UK still thinks it holds the stronger cards?

    • Richard1
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

      Of course it requires agreement of both sides, no-one has ever argued otherwise. The question for the EU will be, at a time when the EU faces huge economic and structural problems, and when the EU countries, like the UK, are rightly concerned about protectionism and trade warfare, does the EU wish to become the first developed trading bloc deliberately to put up tariffs and barriers to trade against a friendly nation, when there is no need to do so?

      I can’t see it. But one things for certain, if they do it will really vindicate the UK decision to leave.

      • Len Grinds
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

        Richard, you do not understand. If the Uk leaves without a deal, the EU is REQUIRED to put up those tariffs and barriers. WTO rules require it to treat the UK as it would any other third country with which it has no deal. This is the “trading on WTO terms” you Brexiters are so fond of – and the reason hardly any trade anywhere is done purely “on WTO terms” is because those terms are so very bad.

        • Richard1
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

          Have you really missed the point or are you deliberately ignoring it? If the EU and the UK have in principle agreed an FTA – ie the principle there will be one, not the complete FTA – GATT article 24 can apply.

          Of course it requires both parties to agree, but for the EU to be required by the rules to impose tariffs would require them to state they have no interest in an FTA with their nearest and largest export market. that’s possible of course but I think very unlikely.

          • Tory in Cumbria
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:09 am | Permalink

            But Richard, the EU has said – over and over and over again – that they will not begin talks on an FTA until the Uk signs off the Withdrawal Agreement.

          • NickC
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:45 am | Permalink

            Tory in Cumbria, The EU position is invented, it’s not required in the EU treaties. There is no reason for the UK to accept the EU position. Your choice to do so says more about you than it does about the facts. The option we’re discussing is straightforward: the UK offers to negotiate a future trade deal using WTO (GATT) ArtXXIV; the EU then has the choice of agreeing to negotiate, or not. The EU is not forced to agree; and no-one on here says so.

      • Fed up with the bull
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

        Richard1. Too bloody true. It wouldn’t look very good to the rest of the world either.

      • J Bush
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

        Well said.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

        @Richard1:
        “DELIBERATLY to put up tariffs and barriers to trade”
        To me this is an upside down perception of reality, because it will be the default position and unavoidable for the EU when the UK decides to have this disorderly withdrawal.

        There have been years of negotiations to have an orderly withdrawal (article 50) which, under the current UK “red lines” culminated in the agreed Withdrawal Agreement. Obviously the EU is not going to do this all over again, just because there will be a change of personnel on the UK side. A totally new event, like a change in UK red lines or general elections in the UK would be required for the EU27, which has lots of other work to attend to.

        • Richard1
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

          See Above. No tariffs etc unless the EU decides, as it is course free to do, that it has no interest in an FTA with the UK. Couldn’t be clearer. EU choice.

          • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
            Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

            @Richard1:
            No talks on an FTA, before the UK has performed an orderly withdraw from the EU. couldn’t be clearer. UK choice.

          • NickC
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:49 am | Permalink

            PvL, TEU Art50 does not require a withdrawal agreement. The EU negotiators have chosen to invent the criterion of an “orderly” (ie: EU controlled) withdrawal. There is no reason in law or in principle for the UK to submit to such tactics.

        • stred
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

          I look forward toy wife buying less Dutch cheese, which I like too much and is fattening. Also I will not be obliged to buy her expensive flowers, the last bunch of which died after two days.

          • stred
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:19 am | Permalink

            to my.

    • Shirley
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      The UK can offer GATT 24, and the EU can refuse. However, it would then be perfectly clear that the EU wish to disrupt trade between the EU and UK.

      There would be ‘consequences’ … as the EU love to say. I’d hate to be an EU business if that situation arises. The UK can easily seek other markets, unlike EU countries who are reliant on the EU for trade decisions.

      • Tory in Cumbria
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:11 am | Permalink

        So if Brexit leads to disruption of trade, it is the EU’s fault. Really I often wonder what planet you Brexiters live on

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

          Tory in Cumbria, So you’re saying that the UK will deliberately disrupt EU/UK trade after we have left? For what reason? And how do you “know” this? If that’s not the case, then please be clear who will be doing the disrupting. Because the only alternative left is your EU.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      PvL
      If you want to look at percentages then look at the significant percentages in the important countries like The Netherlands, Germany, France, Italy & Spain all of which will be affected to a large extent

      • steve
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

        Know – Dice

        “The Netherlands, France & Spain,… will be affected to a large extent”

        They are not important, and will not be our problem when they are affected.

        Same for Eire – who cares a jot if brexit buggers their economy, not our problem. They should have thought about that before insulting us.

        • formula57
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

          And doesn’t the same apply to Scotland?

          • steve
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

            formula57

            Not necessarily.

            It’s my belief that Scotland can be a very honourable partner in the UK.

            I’d like to think that after brexit, we could take control of English and Welsh fishing grounds, and rightly Scotland should have the same maritime sovereignty for theirs.

            There’s lots of examples of how the Union could be of mutual benefit, one of them being shipbuilding as we will likely need to increase merchant fleet tonnage when we go ‘global’

            But the SNP English – haters need to get their heads out of the 18th century.

    • Bob
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

      @PvL

      Yes, the German car industry and the French wine growers will obviously look at their collapsing market share as a percentage of the overall EU economy and just shrug their shoulders while the Japanese, Koreans, Australians and Americans step in to take up the slack.

      Is it true that people eat cannabis fairy cake in Amsterdam? 😂😂😂

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

        @Bob: You fail to understand that the internal market is far more important to German car manufacturers and French wine growers than their export to the UK. Strange though, because this has been made abundantly clear for at least the last two years. Maybe you don’t follow continental media?

        • Zorro
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:57 am | Permalink

          Really? Well their single market is going to shrink substantially when we leave so what will happen to your trade exports then?

          Zorro

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:57 am | Permalink

          PvL, So you’re saying that German car makers will only be able to supply the EU27 single market OR the UK market? How do you work that one out? No chance of them continuing to supply both markets then?

    • steve
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

      PvL

      “The Brexiteer-UK still thinks it holds the stronger cards?”

      We know we hold the cards. Why? because we’re British, the Island Race, and we’ll go it alone if necessary….and we will prevail against all odds, just like we have always done.

      That, PvL, is what scares the crap out of the ungrateful EU.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

        @steve: oh Dear oh dear!
        . . . but please keep us amused and entertained with your Britain rules the waves 🙂

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

          PvL, The suggestion that the UK can buy from the rest of the world, rather than having to buy from the EU, is hardly a matter of Britain ruling the waves. Is it? Perhaps it is your silly EU-nationalism that is amusing – always turning every issue into EU willy-waving.

        • steve
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

          PvL

          Show some respect, you probably wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for England.

  17. BOF
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    We shall soon see whether the thirty something Brexit wreckers are such fanatical EUrophiles as to be prepared to bring down the Government and the Conservative party.

    Should that happen it is highly likely that the Brexit Party will then take over and the result will be the same and we will leave under WTO rules. They seem to have little political savvy.

    • Fred H
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

      If the Brexit party get clued in they should target the ‘thirty something’ wreckers, repeatedly pointing out their ‘treachery’ with a view to making them vulnerable in the next GE.

      I note –
      Mr Gauke said he believed Parliament “will find a mechanism” between now and 31 October to prevent the UK leaving without a deal.
      When asked whether he thought he would be sacked from the cabinet if Mr Johnson became prime minister, he said: “I suspect that I will possibly have gone before then.”
      He added: “Assuming that he wins, if Boris’s position is that he is going to require every member of the cabinet to sign up to being prepared to leave without a deal on 31 October, to be fair to him I can’t support that policy – so I would resign in advance.”

      Good news awaits patience.

      • steve
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

        Fred H

        I don’t think Farage will need to target the Liberal wreckers…….they’re toast at the next GE anyway.

  18. Tabulazero
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    You expect to sign an FTA with the EU by October 31st after pissing off everyone in Europe by rejecting the withdrawal agreement ?

    That is a laughable bad plan.

    Reply No, I do not expect to sign an FTA. Try reading what I write before commenting

    • Tabulazero
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

      Yes but how do you expect the EU not to follow WTO rules from November 1st and apply WTO tariffs ? GATT 24 ?

      • Dominic
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:28 am | Permalink

        We don’t give a toss what the EU does or responds to our leaving. We will act as does every other sovereign, independent does around the world. We will defend our position

        People like you forget trade is a DUALITY. If they damage UK based companies they only damage Eurozone based companies as well

        The adjustment to freedom and the destruction of EU control over the UK will be difficult but then anything of value worth fighting for requires determination and resolve

        The British people will not be cajoled and bullied by upstarts like Merkel, Macron and their EU zealots

        • Tabulazero
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

          Well spoken from a pensioner with a triple-locked pension.

          • Zorro
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:01 am | Permalink

            Get off your knees!

            Zorro

      • Richard1
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

        See numerous explanations or read the treaty yourself. If there is an in principle agreement to negotiate an FTA no tariffs need apply. It will be up to the EU.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

          Alright. So the sequence of events is going to be as follows:

          1. Boris Johnson (of all people) is going to bin the withdrawal agreement the EU and 27 countries agreed on after three years of painstaking negotiations.

          2. He is going to withhold paying £39bn in commitment the UK has entered into as a member of the EU

          3. He is then going to come back to all the 27 European leaders he has just mightily pissed off with point 1 & 2 and glibly ask them if they wouldn’t mind acquiescing to using the GATT article 24 in a manner for which this article was not designed for and for an uncertain amount of time.

          4. Macron and Merkel basically agree to fall publicly on their sword and hand over to Boris a superb victory on the foreign policy front… by virtue of his animal magnetism.

          5. He is then going to hope that absolutely no one else in the WTO (starting with the US, China post Hong-Kong or Russia who has always the UK’s best interest at heart) is going to object to the EU and the UK having their cosy deal on the side.

          What could possibly go wrong ?

          • Richard1
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:05 am | Permalink

            The point is a very simple one. It is up to the EU. Agree in principle to an FTA (clearly the UK Choice) or start a trade war for political reasons.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

            Richard1, what I am pointing out to you is that only the Brexiters such as yourself think it would be rationale for the EU to agree to the UK’s shenanigans as proposed by Mr Redwood.

          • NickC
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

            Tabulazero,

            1. The UK Parliament binned May’s dWA, not Boris.

            2. There is no commitment for the UK to pay £39bn.

            3. Either the EU27 want free trade or they don’t. No one in the UK is impressed by EU27 bottom-clutching. It is not up to the EU to specify how the talks will be conducted – it is a negotiation

            4. A free trade agreement is as much a “superb victory” for the EU as it is for the UK. Although in my view a WTO deal would be better for the UK.

            5. Neither the WTO nor WTO members will stop an EU/UK RTA when there are dozens of similar RTAs already. There may be objections but that is what negotiations are for.

          • Andy
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

            The simple fact is that the evil May’s ghastly Withdrawal Agreement has been rejected not once, not twice but THREE times by the Commons. It cannot pass and so is impossible to ratify. The EU can stick their fingers in their ears as long as they like, as you can do, but petulance wont alter this simple fact.

            Therefore, IF a proposed agreement cannot be ratified – and the EU have not even tried to ratify it you will note – then it has to be either abrogated altogether or renegotiated.

      • graham1946
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

        They could agree the GATT 24 if they agree to enter talks about FTA. That is all that is required. 31st October is leaving date, not FTA date, that can take as long as it takes whilst trade could continue as it does now unless the EU wants to punish the UK and its own exporters to the UK.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

        There are no such things as “WTO tariffs”.

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

          Denis Cooper, Thank goodness for your clarity – there are indeed no such things as “WTO tariffs”. Remains do keep trotting out the same old fake fact-checks presumably because they get Remain crib-sheets circulated to them with the errors baked in. It was a bit like a year or two ago when they kept insisting the WTO did not cover services.

    • steve
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero

      Well do you suppose we’re dumb enough to sign a capitulation deal, and one that would carve up the UK ?

      And do you suppose ungrateful Europe has any right to be pissed off because we won’t sign it ?

    • Original Richard
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:54 am | Permalink

      Tabulazero, I don’t even want an FTA with the EU which would mean continuing with our £100bn/YEAR trading deficit with the EU.

      I would much prefer to trade on WTO terms and take advantage of either increasing our home production or buying cheaper elsewhere.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

        What is preventing you from looking at the label and buying products from the UK ?

        Please by all means do.

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

          Tabulazero, I do. And since the beginning of 2018 when the insults and the vile bullying by the EU became obvious I have specifically avoided buying EU stuff.

  19. Kathleen P
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    I thought it very curious timing for there to have been a leaked report from our Washington Ambassador critical of President Trump. Are there forces at work trying to scupper our US trade deal by offending the Americans? Another salvo in their attempt to stop Brexit and any possibility of success for us outside the EU? They are getting more desperate by the day.

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 11:38 am | Permalink

      I agree with your suggestion but to commit such undiplomatic remarks to paper is, if true, both foolish and unprofessional.
      In my opinion, the Ambassador should be recalled and our Government should issue an unreserved apology.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      KP, agreed it does look very much like that.

    • Zorro
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

      Indeed, those emails had a very limited circulation to senior civil servants. I wonder which senior civill servant would think that he would benefit from leaking it and desperately try and shore up his position and his job(s)….

      Zorro

  20. Barbara Castle
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    In my view, this isn’t about Project Fear, but a bunch of legal eagles hooked on power and desperate to win their case in the HOC “court”. They are blinded by hubris and cannot grasp the fact that understanding the law doesn’t translate into an ability to manage the resources of UK plc.

    On another point, I await with interest a robust defence from these rabid Remainers over reports of the EU’s despotic treatment of Ireland and Switzerland. Clearly, the EU can now see challenges on many fronts and it’s power dissipating, and is responding as any wounded and cornered animal would.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

      BC, your paragraph 1 – yes comprehension without competence, the worst possible combination.

  21. Kees
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Just who do you think Boris is going to negotiate with? The talks have concluded and the agreement is on the table. Leave with it or leave without it- your choice

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

      Kees, You are preaching to the converted. Almost every Leave here would leave the EU treaties without the withdrawal agreement. Trust in our own Remain establishment is extraordinarily low, but trust in the EU is non-existent.

  22. Fed up with the bull
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    David Gauke is on Marr at the moment saying that he is fed up with the discourse in the public domain and how many subjects to do with Brexit are being wrongly reported. He says that the wrong information is being given out to people about leaving and that leaving the EU will have consequences. He says politicians need to be truthful about the effects of leaving. Can we please have some truthful reporting about what the effects will be for staying in the EU? For years now the full intentions of belonging to the EU have been brushed under the carpet and most people have been unaware of the fuller integration that is happening behind closed doors. We are not told about the consequences of staying in the EU and that is a bigger worry for many of us.

  23. Everhopeful
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Looks like Boris has joined the Project Fear ranks.
    Reports of him being willing to pay EU billions to avoid pain of no deal!
    Can this be true?

  24. Gareth Warren
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    I am pessimistic that we will conclude a FTA before we leave, neither do I believe the EU wants to conclude a FTA will us unless it absolutely has to since free trade is often touted as the main benefit of EU membership.

    I do believe Canada, New Zealand, Australia, US and other countries are keen to conclude FTA’s with us.

    Therefore the main effort in a pro-brexit government should be to start these FTA’s as fast as possible by getting GATT 24 agreements in place.

    I expect that with a deluge of tariff free imports heading to the UK the EU will suddenly be very keen to protect its UK marketshare. At that point I’m on the fence whether we should sign a FTA with the EU – I’ll happily leave it up to others to decide.

  25. gyges01
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Something that I’ve been waiting for you to comment upon … The Reith Lectures by Lord Sumption. Particularly, my Lord Sumption railed against the use of the tool of a referendum by politicians, contrary to his overriding thesis of giving greater latitude to politicians.

    However, what his lectures brought to the forefront of my mind was his omission … that is … even (according to him) a referendum is an appalling political tool yet … in the 1970s our politicians invited the electorate to participate in a referendum. The result of which everyone accepted and brought political stability for at least forty years only to be undermined by John Major when he changed the goal posts of the original referendum.

    This leaves me with the question – Lord Sumption’s omission – why was the first referendum accepted but the second one wasn’t? What has happened to us as a society in the intervening years? Greater intolerance of people, the lack of a sufficiently homogeneous demos? etc etc Your thoughts, please …

    • Pete S
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

      The public did not know the ambitions of the EU. The FCO kept 30/1048 secret for 30 years. The gov leaflet was a travesty in not telling the public the truth.

      Gov’s lie and when the lies get too much the public react badly to wards those who had lied to them. The UK gov and the dreadful EU project.

    • rose
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

      The worst of it was when he said why referendums won’t do: “the public just vote in their own interests whereas MPs vote for the good of the country.” Ugh!!!

    • Original Richard
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:08 am | Permalink

      The first referendum was accepted was because it gave the answer the establishment/swamp/NWO wanted, whist the second did not.

  26. ukretired123
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    The Great Lie – The Big One – was the Great Deception – the United States of Europe, outed by Mrs T.
    Until then Britain was deliberately hoodwinked into thinking the EU was still just a common economic market. Only after binding legal treaties had been agreed and exposed for real did the EU admit the political dimension was the aim all along.
    Misleading whole Nations into joining “the project” with falsehoods at this basic level and scale is unforgivable and unforgettable. Edward Heath admitted he mislead Britain into joining this giant charade of the political EU.
    Heath sailed merrily away on his “Morning Cloud” yacht but for Britain that became afternoon storms followed by the nightmare ERM, the Euro, an avalanche of burgeoning bureaucracy, both by Brussels and our civil service amplification this in triplicate, the Nanny State, extra costs etc etc.
    Interesting that William Hague admired Mrs Thatcher and argued against joining the Euro like being in a burning building with no exit. The EU is “burning bucks bigtime” with no exit for those trapped in it, unlike a British Brexit.
    Lots of folks think they are objective thinkers but don’t bother to acknowledge the EU Big Lie and airbrush it out of their personal orbit.

  27. steadyeddie
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Those who support No Deal aim to damage our UK.

    • Ian McDougall
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

      To date there has never been a deal to leave the EU. Mrs May’s WA was all about staying under EU control a so called BRINO. No Trade agreement exsist in the WA

      So the logic is how will a ‘clean-break’ damage the UK

      The EU trading report crated by the EU itself reports for 2019 and states the UK gains least out of trade in the EU. Just over 5% of UK GDP trade in goods is with the EU. From that it means that 90% of UK trade in goods has nothing to do being a member of the EU. Look at it another way 90% of UK trade in goods is also held back from achieving more, by the EU

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

      Steadyeddie, Those who support the EU deal of making the UK a colony of the EU aim to damage our UK. By definition.

  28. margaret howard
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    JR

    “The peddlers of false Project Fear forecasts clearly want to stop us getting such an agreement.”

    What about peddlers of myths that somebody leaving a club, even the local golf club, can dictate their terms of leaving to the other members?

    You know that is totally absurd and unrealistic.

    • steve
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

      MH

      “What about peddlers of myths that somebody leaving a club, even the local golf club, can dictate their terms of leaving to the other members?”

      Depends, if they owed their very existence to said leaving person, he or she would deserve some gratitude on the way out, not threats and disrespect.

      But it’s ok, next time Europe needs our help we won’t want to know.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

      Correct Margaret, but in this case the golf club committee have decided that the leaving member should pay for the new roof and refurbishment of the club house even though that member and a minority of others have always paid their subs on time as requested, despite many members actually not only not paying their way, but getting a huge discount at the same time

      Your golf club analogy is rubbish…

  29. bigneil
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    Off Topic

    I read reports of even if we all have all electric vehicles – car use will still have to be curbed ( except – inevitably of course – for the “important and rich ). So, as the motorist is one of the biggest cash cows for the govt – and cars being pushed out of use – where is the cash going to come from? Also the same report said about congestion – -could that be anything to do with the recent BBC prog saying 700’000 a year apply to come here. Presumably all need a house, transport, NHS, their children’s schooling etc and all will help that congestion figure rise. Deliberately organised hell is on it’s way. Yet, still another runway is being planned.

  30. BR
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

    I see the remoaners are plotting yet another attempt to amend Bills against no-deal with the bill end elections in NI while the impasse continues being up early next week.

    I wonder how necessary it is for May to do this and the extent to which she is colluding with these people by offering these opportunities. There are no elections planned for NI for some time, so couldn’t this wait until after Brexit and let a new PM deal with it?

    Her and Hammond have really shown their true colours recently and I wouldn’t bet against them siding openly with Grieve and co once out of office. How were they allowed into power?

    And how was Gauke NOT de-selected recently by his association?

    These people are not trying to prevent n-deal, they are trying to prevent Brexit. If they can take no-deal off the table, then any deal must be approved by Parliament, whereupon Stage 2 of their coup kicks in, in that they will vote down any deal, no matter how good, thereby ensuring that we can never leave during this Parliament.

    Disgraceful anti-democratic behaviour.

  31. steve
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

    Well put JR

    Always negotiate from a position of strength.

  32. Bill
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

    Why do they not want us to hold THE ACE in the Leave negotiations?
    With a massive average annual trade deficit of £80 Billions with the EU and our net contributions of around £11 Billions plus the ‘freebies’ like OUR Armed Forces and World Class Intelligence operations and our IT expertise, et al, this country has far less to lose than EU members. So why be afraid of a NO Deal?
    I conclude that those who wish to eliminate a ‘No Deal’ exit are those who stand to lose their money as they have so many vested interests in the EU.
    Our exports to the EU represent around 11% of our total GDP. We sell more to the Rest of the World (13% of GDP) so our EU Trade is not as important as we are led to believe.
    In any case, we voted to leave the EU for the single reason of taking back control of our own country. We are tired of being told what to do, with whom and when to do it.
    Freedom is what we voted for and we just want to rejoin the much larger, Rest of the World on our terms. Not those dictated by Brussels.

  33. Yorkie
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    One small step for a man: a giant leap for Mankind
    FRANKFURT, July 7 (Reuters) – Deutsche Bank plans to cut 18,000 jobs in a sweeping, 7.4 billion euro overhaul designed to turn around Germany’s struggling flagship lender.
    18,000 individuals.Each will know his and her contribution to EU success. Everything, their homes, wives, kitchen sinks, and husbands and partners and children and local shop keepers and their individual staff people and each worker making the things for them to sell and each truck driver taking stuff to the shops. and their wives and kitchen sinks.

  34. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    This morning Labour’s Barry Gardiner told Sophy Ridge:

    “… we always said we would not accept a no-deal …”

    But they voted to send in the Article 50 notice without any safeguard that if it proved to be impossible to get a deal then the Prime Minister must seek to cancel the notice.

    Likewise the Tory MP Sam Gyimah told her:

    “… I have always voted against no-deal … ”

    but I’m pretty sure that he will have voted with the government at every stage of the passage of the Bill through the Commons, without any safeguard against us leaving without a withdrawal agreement as envisaged as a possibility in Article 50.

    The EU Parliament explicitly recognised the potential for that outcome in the text:

    https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2016/577971/EPRS_BRI(2016)577971_EN.pdf

    “If no agreement is concluded within two years, that state’s membership ends automatically, unless the European Council and the Member State concerned decide jointly to extend this period.”

    but it seems that some of the people we elected to our national Parliament were too lazy or too stupid to do the same before they voted to send in the notice.

    The same Tory MP suggested that another referendum might be necessary “to break the impasse”, but how would that work if we persisted in voting against his wishes?

    He and his friends don’t want to accept the result of the firsst referendum, why should it be any different if the result of the second referendum was still not to their liking?

    Then to excuse his treachery he claimed:

    “… people were told there would be a deal …”

    but if he looks out his copy of the government’s referendum leaflet he will find:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

    “Some argue that we could strike a good deal quickly with the EU because they want to
    keep access to our market.

    But the Government’s judgement is that it would be much harder than that – less than 8% of EU exports come to the UK while 44% of UK exports go to the EU …”

    And so forth … yet despite those warnings from the government 52% of those who voted still decided that we should leave, and trusted that when the government said:

    “The referendum on Thursday, 23rd June is your chance to decide if we should remain in
    or leave the European Union.”

    “This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.”

    they actually meant that, rather than meaning:

    “If you vote to leave then the Government will ask Sam Gyimah and other renegade Tory MPs like David Gauke whether or not it should implement that decision.”

    I use the word “renegade” because David Gauke told Andrew Marr that we should stop talking about “betrayal” and “traitors” and “… be straight with people …”, while relying on straight-as-an-arrow Speaker Bercow to help overturn the referendum result.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

      Denis Cooper, Well said.

  35. Caterpillar
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    Back in the distant past of the referendum project fear made the worst case costs, but the electorate accepted these, willing to take a step back for the opportunity to step in a different direction.

  36. Denis Cooper
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    Sophy Ridge also interviewed the President of National Union of Farmers; when asked about the potential damage of a no-deal Brexit, the latter started her reply with:

    “… take the sheep sector as one example …

    Well, one could do that if one wished to pick out a highly atypical case, one where we actually have a trade surplus with the rest of the EU; or I suppose that alternatively one could pick out one of the more typical cases – beef, pork, dairy products and so on – where we import far more from the rest of the EU than we export to them.

    Then consecutive statements that we don’t eat much of what we produce in the UK, that we export 40% of the product to France, that our exports could not get over the EU’s tariff wall and the UK would be oversupplied, and so farmers would go bust, would no longer apply in the same way as they might for sheepmeat.

    I for one would readily volunteer to stop buying Irish beef and Dutch pork products and instead only buy UK produced foodstuffs including mutton and lamb, so taking up some of the oversupply in the UK market, as far as that was practicable.

    They want to mess us about, right, we don’t have to buy any of their stuff and should stop doing so; there are always non-EU alternatives, or at least almost always. All we need are politicians with the guts to take a strong lead on a consumer boycott.

  37. Lazlo
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

    Thing is up until the WA was agreed and signed off by the EU 28 there was cohesion and in the end they all spoke with one voice but that time has passed and EU 27 and UK itself have now fallen back into speaking for themselves mode only. Am sure France remembers old history, Germany remembers the Treaty of Versailles, the old animosity between Spain and UK over Gibraltar has been rekindled because of the arrest of the Iranian tanker in its locale- ships passing through the straits of Gibraltar are in International waters and when entering the Mediterranean pass in the shipping lane on the Moroccan coast side- so don’t understand how they can say it was in EU waters? All of this amounts to a big fat zero when it comes to future cooperation between the different parts- am afraid the damage has already been done

    • Ian McDougall
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

      The WA as Sir John has published on this blog site was a surrender treaty that left the UK as colony of the EU, under thier control.

      EU laws, EU rules – no say. The WA was not about trade it was about control and payments.

      In a nutshell the WA was a remain construct

  38. libertarian
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

    Dear Margaret H , Newmania, Tabulazero Andy et al

    You know that the City is moving to Frankfurt , all the finance jobs are going stuff that you told us about . Thought this might brighten your day

    We thought that Deutsche Bank’s overhaul would be massive. It’s even bigger than that. DB is setting up a €74bn bad bank, cutting 18k jobs, and totally giving up in equity sales and trading

    Meanwhile City of London job vacancies are up 13% year on year . Anyone would think you folks weren’t very clued up

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 7, 2019 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

      Libertarian,

      Nothing to do with Brexit/project fear but DB is interesting stuff. Perhaps you can confirm that DB seem to have been losing top equity/investment staff for a few years – possibly to competitors that might end up buying some of its business. Can you give a brief summary? (Perhaps it will end up a school essay topic like HSBC a few years back.)

      • libertarian
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:22 am | Permalink

        Caterpillar

        My post has everything to do with Brexit

        The remain camp keep telling us that leaving the EU will result in the cIty and financial services decamping to Frankfurt . Meanwhile EU banks are collapsing

        If you want an essay on banking go do your own research

    • Edward2
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:17 am | Permalink

      And Jaguar Land Rover’s parent company have recently announced a further billion pound investment in developing more electric vehicles, including the XJ saloon replacement. All to be carried out in the UK.
      #despite Brexit.

    • margaret howard
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

      libertarian

      “Meanwhile City of London job vacancies are up 13% year on year .”

      They won’t be much longer seeing that with almost 8,000 staff, Deutsche Bank is one of the biggest employers in the City of London.

      We’ve come to the end of an era whereby these cowboys can make billions by shifting our money about with us getting no interest on our savings.

      Well done, Deutsche, for finally realising that countries become prosperous through trading goods not other people’s money.

      • libertarian
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

        MH

        Ha ha ha ha ha ha That is the funniest, most deluded post ever made on here .

        If you had ever run any kind of business you would have an inkling of how necessary financial services are to the flow of business on all kinds of levels

        There are 300,000 people employed in the City of London, the 6,000 staff of DB will all find new roles in the city as I already explained vanities in the city are UP

  39. Jack Falstaff
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

    We are all fed up with this tittle tattle over Brexit.
    Why don’t you just join the Brexit Party instead of staying with those Tory half-wits?

  40. Ian McDougall
    Posted July 7, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Mr I know my job Phillip Hammond, following the vote leave in 2016 said the UK economy would shrink, that year. Then he said the same the following year and so on. For every contraction he predicted, the UK grew by the same amount.

    Meaning the on top of his brief chancellor was 200% wrong on every count. That is someone entrusted with the country’s finances

    Now because he is being found out he wants destroy his party and country out of spite

    The HC is fall of spoilt children

  41. rose
    Posted July 9, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    Now he is saying Mrs May can have her vain and irresponsible splurge if she will arrange another Parliamentary sabotage of Brexit.

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