10 big wins from just leaving the EU on 31 October

We can

Spend all the money we save on our priorities

Cut tariffs on imports especially where we cannot grow or make them for ourselves

Remove VAT from items as we wish – as with green items like insulation and boiler controls  and feminine hygiene products

Rebuild our fishing grounds and land more of our own fish for home consumption

Work with our farmers to cut food miles and enjoy more home grown produce

Regain our seat and vote in international bodies

Sign Free trade  deals that suit us with other countries – all the time we were member s they never managed an FTA with the USA and many Commonwealth countries

Decide our own laws

Cut the costs of government by getting rid of a whole unnecessary EU level

Avoid all the financial and foreign policy  risks of the Euro and common EU foreign policy

 

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286 Comments

  1. Longinus
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:18 am | Permalink

    The campaign to leave continues 3-years after Brexit won the referendum vote. Pathetic.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:23 am | Permalink

      Agreed. It is pathetic. It does make one feel negative.

      It has given us insight into what will continue when power returns to Westminster. The elite swamp will continue much the same. The same macro will continue. The same tax structures will continue, with just minor tweaks to thresholds or products (the appearance of change). Unless there is an end to FPTP, an English Parliament (in the middle of England), more devolution (including immigration decisions), a substantial shifting of the four centres (political, financial, cultural, transport) from London (hS2 needs faster delivery, Heathrow 3 stopped, all senior civil servants moved etc.). May’s WA was BRINO, leaving on Oct 31st will be change in name only.

      • Alex
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:58 am | Permalink

        All true. If it were not then parliament would be looking to repeal all the harmful and restrictive Euro regulations that have been foisted on us. Instead it’s business as usual. VAT (an EEC tax) will continue. Even Mr Redwood merely regards the money not sent to Brussels as government property instead of taxpayers money. Maggie said “There is no public money, there is only taxpayers money” and I would add that the establishment intend to keep stealing it no matter what.

      • Simeon
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

        The biggest concern for Leavers should be that at present there is no delivery system for a successful Brexit. I’m not just talking about a clean and proper Brexit; that is a single event, a moment in time. What Leavers need is a government capable of making a success of such a Brexit (if it actually happens).

        The Conservative party are demonstrably incapable of doing this. The Brexit Party, though they appear to be the only realistic bet to deliver the moment of Brexit are yet to give any real indication that they could form a successful post-Brexit government. At this point, the smart money would be on this country voting to rejoin the EU within a decade. This on the assumption that a) the UK actually left, and b) there was still an EU to rejoin…

        • Anonymous
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

          +1

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

        Called throwing the baby out with the bathwater. We fight to recover our constitutional settlement from corrupt politicians who gave it away, and having succeeded you propose we chuck it ourselves! And I thought Rory was nuts!

        • Simeon
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 6:53 am | Permalink

          I’m not suggesting this should happen. In my view, the principle of self-determination trumps all others. What I’m saying is that if the country make a mess of, or sabotages, the economy post-Brexit, the country would inevitably vote to return to the EU.

    • Peter
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

      Indeed. While I would like to hope we will be out by the end of October, I fear that may not be the case.

      I suspect a General Election and wholesale swamp draining may be a necessary preliminary.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

        Peter, A general election would not drain the swamp. People vote in general elections on general issues. That is the beauty of a referendum: it provides clarity on one subject.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

          Nickc….tend to agree. There will be much the same candidates approved by central office, or local association one rejected. I fear the upper echelons in the party do not understand root & branch cutting. After decimation at the next, possibly 2 GEs those still alive will beat their chest wondering where it all went wrong. The problem is clear, the infection took hold after approx 2010, terminal decline after 2016.

        • Andy
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

          Provides clarity on one subject. That went well then.

          What is – Norway option? Or Switzerland? Or Canada plus? Or WTO?

          Who knows. Not you, that’s for sure.

  2. Dominic
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    How does Johnson intend to stop local and central government from using immigration as part of a political and electoral strategy when we do leave the EU?

    Will he introduce new legislation to halt mass importation of peoples and dismantle the political project whose aim is the fundamental restructuring of the British population that benefits Labour once every 5 years?

    Or is he going to be another weak Tory PM who hides away from issues that the left and Labour have worked to demonise?

    We know the Tories are super-hyper-off the scale sensitive regarding immigration (another left wing victory against the Tory party) but one of the main reasons many in the north voted for Brexit is a desire to see a halt to the destructive consequences of large scale immigration on their communities.

    The next Tory PM can easily bat away any criticism on this issue. He simply explains that Labour deliberately used immigration for political and electoral profit. Labour are not humanitarian. They are not naturally concerned about the welfare of peoples coming to the UK. They concern themselves only with turning immigrants into Labour voting machines buying their electoral loyalty using taxpayers money

    It is time to bring this debate back into the public arena and to confront those who seek to crush debate on this most fundamental of issues

    • Ian terry
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      Dominic

      a desire to see a halt to the destructive consequences of large scale immigration on their communities.

      Therein lies the problem. Very few members of parliament think, comprehend anything about the fall out of their decisions has on the community at large.

      It is not just the numbers it is the non existent infrastructure that we have been waiting for years for, that is still not suitable for the present population let alone all the new commitments we have to take on with every new arrival.

      It can only get worse as the numbers increase in every area of everyday living the country falls short of its peoples expectations. The next massive accident waiting to happen is when we are forced down the “all electric pathway” God help us when storms take out power supplies, motorways are blocked for hours, no heating and cooking and the emergency services waiting to charge their batteries up. every home will require a diesel generators. We have to drain the swamp and reinvest the savings in infrastructure.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      Boris is very suspect on immigration, he wants to give an amnesty to illegals , and I doubt very much that he wants to restrict the numbers. I wouldn’t be surprised to see the numbers go north of 500k a year if and when Boris becomes PM.

      The British establishment put out very contradictory messages, on the one hand we are told to live like monks because of global warming , the next they are adding to our population by a million every few years , which will require more houses, more roads more everything, which is not good for sustainability.

      Essentially I see us trapped between the Left’s internationalism, and the Right’s globalism , who both want mass immigration, both don’t have much regard for our nation, which goes against the majority view of the public , but no one is there to make our case, thus the vote for Brexit.

    • MB
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:48 am | Permalink

      Agree totally.

      I wonder if May or Cameron have taken any asylums seekers yet into their respective constituencies.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

        MB, Or if May or Cameron have taken any asylums seekers yet into their own homes.

  3. Mick
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    Number eleven, have MPs that will be accountable to us , and they won’t be able to pass the buck by saying “it’s not my fault gov “ but I’m only carrying out what Brussels tells me , perhaps that’s what all these pro Eu loving mps are scared of having to think for themselves

    • James1
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

      The most important one is ‘decide our own laws’.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:24 am | Permalink

      Obviously some of them did not think before they voted for the Bill to empower the Prime Minister to put in the Article 50 notice, without any safeguarding provision to address the risk that we might end up leaving without a withdrawal agreement under the terms of that treaty article.

      A risk which they now see as so appalling that they are prepared to pretend that the voters have changed their minds about leaving, when in fact they are the ones who want to go back on their previous decision.

      If these people were worth their salt they would have spotted that potential risk in January 2017, just by reading the text of Article 50, rather than waiting for nearly two years to try to get a provision for revocation into law:

      https://services.parliament.uk/bills/2017-19/europeanunionrevocationofnotificationofwithdrawal.html

      “European Union (Revocation of Notification of Withdrawal) Bill”

      “1 Duty to revoke notification of withdrawal from EU if withdrawal agreement
      condition not met … ”

      It’s hard to believe that one of the ringleaders of the utterly despicable backsliding Tory MPs is a lawyer, a QC, who once held the office of Attorney-General, and even today he is having another go at blocking our withdrawal from the EU.

    • Pominoz
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 1:25 am | Permalink

      Mick,

      Sir John was hoping to get Number Eleven for himself. As, indeed were many of us.

  4. agricola
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Yes, being in control of our own destiny is an invaluable plus from our departure. Belonging to the EU I liken to being on a bus where neither the driver nor the passengers know the destination. Plus of course no one is likely to ask them where they wish to go.

    • nhsgp
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

      And if they want to go else where, the unelected drivers won’t let them

    • ukretired123
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      Exactly and when there is a change of both dodgy drink driver, unknown navigator and criminally negligent banker in charge who on earth would trust or bet the farm yet alone the country on them or worse pay big bucks for the road to nowhere.
      Best step off the bus before the certain impending crash and leave them to it pronto!
      The EU are indefensible it is so obvious to millions who voted let’s go per the song:
      “You can go your own way!” Great !

    • margaret howard
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

      agricola

      “Belonging to the EU I liken to being on a bus where neither the driver nor the passengers know the destination”

      You wait and see what happens when Boris is in charge of the clattering train.

      It’ll make membership of the EU seem like gliding along in a gondola rather than a speed boat.

      • Fred H
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

        mh – – you continue such drivel.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

        MH. You really qualify for a comedian in more ways than one.

      • agricola
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

        You must be Mystic Margaret.

      • Mark B
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

        Oh the driver(s) know the destination. It is just that they keep lying to the passengers.

  5. Newmania
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    Additional spending there may be , but it will be financed by additional borrowing , yet another on our children, the fiscal environment will be considerably worse.
    We will in fact immediately face high costs as EU sourced goods and produce cost more and we cannot vary this inside the WTO
    It will take decades to replace the trade deals we immediately lose and if anyone thinks going to the US as a pathetic mendicant is likely to go well they need to stay retired and let those of us who deal with real life get on with it
    These are all lies , even the fishing industry is going to suffer as it will not be able to sell its fish and ( as we know) there’re already plans of the rest of us to bail out this tiny ancient irrelevant industry
    I only wish that being poorer was the only cost

    • agricola
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:58 am | Permalink

      Your glass will remain half empty in life.

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:45 am | Permalink

        In the EU there is no glass – ask the Greeks, Portuguese, Italians, French …

        • James1
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

          Europeans are our friends. It’s the EU institutions and their whole undemocratic structure and subterfuge that we object to.

          • Fred H
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

            James……tried getting along with Parisians much?

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

      “We will in fact immediately face high costs as EU sourced goods and produce cost more and we cannot vary this inside the WTO”

      What on earth are you on about ? Why will EU-sourced produce cost more ? As John says, we will cut tariffs on food we don’t produce ourselves so it will cost less. EU tariffs would apply to our EXPORTS to the EU, not IMPORTS. Tariffs on imports are entirely under our control. I mean, it is incredible I have to explain this to you.

      • Newmania
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:33 am | Permalink

        You compete idiot we cannot do that without cutting tarrifs with everyone else thats the way MFN status works.

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

          So the tariffs apply per product not per country.

          We can protect what we produce and encourage what we do not.

          • steve
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

            Narrow shoulders

            “We can protect what we produce and encourage what we do not.”

            Exactly.

          • AlmostDead
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

            This is protectionism. Labour supporter?

        • Know-Dice
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

          Not many oranges or much coffee grown in this country for starting potential items as no tariff products…

          • Plenderleith
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

            All oranges and coffee imported from undeveloped countries are already tariff free

          • steve
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

            Know -Dice

            Well we don’t need coffee anyway. Nothing wrong with a good British cuppa.

            In any case coffee drinking has got too artsy fartsy, too continental.

            As for oranges, yes a good source of vitamin C…..import from Israel like we used to.

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

          Newmania, You complete idiot that’s what he means. The EU will have to compete with world suppliers on an equal footing.

        • Zorro
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

          No he is not. And regarding tariffs we all know that we would impose tariffs at the same rates on all nations. You are saying that EU sourced goods will be hit hard by high costs, but only if we impose CET level tariffs on them. We are not going to do that if it hurts us are we?

          Zorro

    • Pominoz
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

      Newmania,

      Do I detect that you are a ‘glass half empty’ person?

    • Zorro
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:27 am | Permalink

      Yes, I agree – what you said above is all lies.

      Additional spending? – in case you’ve forgotten, the EU won’t be getting any more bungs! Oh sorry, in your world there is no fiscal downside or ongoing future costs to being in the EU….

      Why will we put tariffs on goods we need from the EU? Same need for goods from the EU as the rest of the world – same tariffs or not. If the EU puts up their tariff wall against us, they will suffer. They export more to us than they import from us. You do understand that?

      Zorro

      • Newmania
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        In fact we will continue to pay the amounts outstanding not notwithstanding more lies about hiding and avoiding our debts

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

          Newmania, You complete idiot after we leave there are no debts – you know (well obviously you don’t) no membership = no membership fees.

          As of now, we cannot owe more than we would have had to pay(net) if we had remained in the EU – up to the end of the current MFF, Dec 2020. So debt cannot be greater than 1.5 x c£10bn (net) = c£15bn. Less what the EU owes us. So nothing like your imaginary £39bn.

          • hans chistian ivers
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

            Nick C

            Your personal attacks are totally unnecessary

          • Edward2
            Posted July 9, 2019 at 1:32 am | Permalink

            You didn’t write that when Newmania used the same words hans
            Why was that, you being the self appointed arbiter of decency on here.

          • libertarian
            Posted July 9, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

            hans

            I’m getting fed up with your pathetic posts, if you want to be the arbiter of what people can post try being consistent… oh you cant because you are a hypocrite as well as not very well informed and a very poor businessman

          • NickC
            Posted July 9, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

            Hans, I won’t use insults first. But if thick fascist Remains use such insults first I will feel free to use them in return. If you don’t like that then stop doing it, or at the very least criticise those Remains who do.

      • AlmostDead
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

        The EU will treat us as a 3rd country in the event of a no deal as they outlined in their December communication. So the EU WILL apply all 3rd country controls, including tariffs, custom controls, etc to the UK in the event of a no deal. They have been extremely clear about this. For you to think that this is a choice by the EU is ridiculous.

        • Zorro
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

          Their choice then – we can find other growing markets for our exports. But they sell more to us so we get more tariff income if needs be to offset costs. The EU is blowing smoke….

          Zorro

          • AlmostDead
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 5:38 am | Permalink

            Believe me they are not blowing smoke. They have a legal obligation to apply tariffs to the UK, which they will.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

          If we stop buying – EU workers, businesses will feel the pinch. Even more unemployment, just as Germany is going ‘slow’ Great prospect for them.

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

          Almostdead, The EU can only apply the same tariffs and NTBs that they apply to other countries already, because the EU and all its satrapies must obey the WTO treaties, including MFN status. So, is that such a bad thing? Of course not since it means we’ll be free.

          • AlmostDead
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 5:37 am | Permalink

            Of course not, I was replying to Zorro who said “If the EU puts up their tariff wall against us, they will suffer. They export more to us than they import from us.” which makes it sound like the EU has a choice. It doesn’t. If we leave on no deal, tariffs will be applied to suggest otherwise is foolish. I have no problem with no deal, but be honest as to what WILL happen.

    • sm
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      But haven’t EU countries had to borrow vast amounts? Dare one mention the state of the economy in Italy, France, Greece, Spain? Or Germany’s illicit (by EU rules) surplus? You object to bail-outs for the UK fishing industry – what about the unreformed bail-outs for French farmers? Why couldn’t UK frozen fish be exported to Africa – Norway does it!

    • Nigl
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      So tomorrow Newmania please critique your sunlit uplands of the future of the EU and staying in. Ever increasing contributions, mandatory joining of the Euro, unlimited migration, greater integration, more bureaucracy. That sort of thing.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

        Nig1, Neither Newmania, nor any of the other fans of the UK remaining a colony of the EU, are capable of telling us what’s so wonderful about being ruled by the EU.

        • hefner
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

          Are you all so stupid: the EU is very far from perfect, you don’t like it, you leave, I expect them EU27 to say good riddance. What I object essentially is to all of you leavers on steroids telling us (by the way remainers/remoaners or not) that Brexit, past 31 Octobrr 2019, will be fine. Brexit is not a date, it is a process. Did you notice that Sir John’s recent answer to a comment is “should be a net gain”. As far as I remember my grammar ‘should’ is called a conditional. Moreover Sir John does indicate any time-scale. JR-M was less of a weasel and went for what, twenty years?

          Reply Time scale first 18 months, conditional on right budget and money policy

          • libertarian
            Posted July 9, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

            Hefner

            What the inexperienced and stupid such as you fail to understand is that Brexit/EU is about the import and export of goods and services. No matter what treaties, agreements, pledges or intergovernmental bits of paper say we will continue to sell mobile phones, scotch whiskey, cancer scanners etc etc to people in Europe and Germans will continue to sell us cars, French wine and Cheese and Greeks and Spaniards holidays etc etc .

            Those of us that actually do international business are quite used to handling the vagaries of governments rule, regulations and tariffs

            So you know hefner LIFE is an unfolding process, business is an unfolding process there NEVER is an end game, if you even had the remotest experience of running a whelk stall you would know that , but you dont

          • NickC
            Posted July 9, 2019 at 9:52 am | Permalink

            Hefner, We are trying to leave! But people like you are stopping Brexit because you prefer the UK to be a colony of the EU.

          • hefner
            Posted July 9, 2019 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

            Libertarian, you should start trying to read what I wrote. In my post there was no mention of treaties, agreements, pledges et al. I was asking a question I hope not too stupid about time-scale and Sir John provided an answer. Not your usual bla bla blah about entrepreneurs. Learn to read, mate, before writing.

            NickC, How am I stopping Brexit? Please explain clearly if you can.
            Your “colony of the EU” expression was not grown on your own manure, you had to read it from one of your beloved newspapers to get it. Most of what you write are just repeats of things you got from elsewhere and without references. So calm down dear.

      • margaret howard
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        ” capable of telling us what’s so wonderful about being ruled by the EU.”

        It turned us from being the sick man of Europe 50 years ago into the world’s 5th biggest economy (since Brexit alas already dropped into 7th place).
        ==

        Nigl

        You forgot the EU army.

        • John Hatfield
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

          “It turned us from being the sick man of Europe 50 years ago into the world’s 5th biggest economy.”
          No it didn’t, it was Margaret Thatcher that did that. The EU is a parasitic organisation sucking the lifeblood out of its ‘members’.

        • formula57
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

          @ margaret howard

          Fifty years ago the UK ranked fourth in GDP terms, at c. $112 billion and so ahead of fifth placed Italy on c. $97 billion and behind third placed France on c. $140 billion. (Figures ex World Bank for 1969.)

          Did your googling let you down or are we once again in the realm of “from my own records”?

        • Caterpillar
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

          Margaret Howard,

          Pound floated in 1972.
          North Sea Oil relieved supply shock of M.E.
          Possibly Sir K. J’s systems analysis of unions and ensuing changes. (There were obviously social battles fought at the time. Currently mass low skilled immigration has stopped social mobility – this is normative argument, middle class may value their kids’ EU mobility over those UK nationals who now have no mobility; it is personal ethics but those middle class kids will have global opportunities come what may, those whose futures have been stymied by mass immigration may be hurt for generations)
          Common Market did open manufacturing up to competition which did eventually lead to some productivity gains (but other obvious effects) – this contrasts to now when ‘infinite’ labour supply holds back investment.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

          MH

          HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED A HISTORY LESSON?

          Before we joined the EU we were the Worlds 3rd largest economy

          You keep posting this drivel over and over again. You just make yourself look silly

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

          Margaret Howard, The UK was called the sick man of Europe in the 1970s whilst we were in the EEC. We joined 1 Jan 1973. The three day week was in 1973-4; the IMF bailout was 1976; Winter of discontent 1978-9; all after we joined your EU empire’s progenitor. You’ve been told this before. Can you get anything right?

    • Richard1
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      Why will EU goods immediately cost more?

      The existing EU trade deals will be novated to the UK. Deals representing 60% of GDP covered already have been.

      Need some positive arguments for EU membership from you not endless repetition of such falsehoods.

      • AlmostDead
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:36 am | Permalink

        “Some” not “ALL” existing EU trade deals will be novated to the UK. Canada and Japan have not agreed to this. Try to be accurate when making claims.

        • Richard1
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

          Deals with both are highly likely. In the case of Japan joining TPP will bea solution.

          Remain needs some positive arguments. All this project fear stuff just doesn’t work. Too much bollocks in it as a libdem might say.

          • AlmostDead
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

            Don’t remember saying it would never happen. But I’m not expecting it to happen until our tariffs schedule is changed. Not much benefit to Canada if we keep the existing one. What’s
            your best guess as to a timeframe for a deal?

      • steve
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

        Richard1

        “Why will EU goods immediately cost more?”

        Who cares ? we ain’t gonna buy ’em anyway.

        Lots of people, myself included, are already boycotting French goods, Irish goods, and EU goods in general.

        Personally, I’ve switched to importing hardware from the US, despite the higher cost, but there’s a principle here; I and many others are just simply sick and tired of EU – ism. Besides I find US built products to be far superior than Euro trash.

        • Original Richard
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

          Steve, I agree.

          I have not bought any French agricultural products since 1990 when French farmers set fire to one truckload of live British sheep, killing 219 of them as well as poisoning, slitting throats and dousing others with insecticide.

          I have extended this policy to buying as little as possible of EU products to help to reduce our £100bn/YEAR trading deficit with the EU.

          I certainly will not be buying German cares after their diesel testing fraud and no Southern Irish products at all.

          Living close to the southern side of the M25 I am hoping the Irish will be implementing their own direct route, avoiding the M25/Dover, to to send and bring goods from the rest of the EU, thus reducing pollution and congestion in our area.

        • Know-Dice
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

          Personally, I’ve switched to importing hardware from the US,

          Same here, place order day 1 goods arrive day 3 carriage, duty & VAT paid 🙂

          That’s what you call “frictionless”….

        • NickC
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

          Steve, Well said. Like many here, I avoid EU trash too.

    • Ian!
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      The latest official EU Commission Single Market report of 2019

      8% of UK GDP relates to UK goods exported to the Single Market
      5.6% of UK GDP relates to UK services exported to the Single Market

      There fore 90% of UK trade is elsewhere. 90% is held back because of EU regulation etc.

      Never forget Mrs May’s WA was never about trade it was about EU costs and control of our econamy

    • Shirley
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:01 am | Permalink

      First, just because the EU take decades to agree trade deals, no other ‘country’ does. That’s one of the huge disadvantages specific to the EU.
      Second, the higher costs will go both ways if the EU refuse to agree a FTA. We will be able to adjust our tariffs to suit the UK, not 27 other countries, and we can (if we wish) have zero tariffs on goods not produced in the UK. In additions, the import tariffs will go to the UK, instead of the EU, to be used in the UK to help whomever it wishes. It’s a win-win for the UK.
      Third, why did the EU bother to take our fishing if it is so uneconomical? The EU want fish, so they will have to buy it instead of taking it for free. If not bought from us, then from others. They obviously need our fishing grounds. Well, so do we!
      Fourth, we can decide where our money goes instead of the EU dictating where it is spent. For example, we could improve our own roads instead of our money being used to build unused motorways/airports in other countries.

      • Know-Dice
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:02 am | Permalink

        Excellent summary of the situation – thanks Shirley

      • AlmostDead
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

        Remember that implementing a zero tariffs schedule can impact the attractiveness of an FTA with the UK. Look no further than the UK failing to novate CETA . Canada calculated that it could get what it wanted from the UK without an FTA.

        • Caterpillar
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

          AlmostDead,

          In March, when (democratic) UK was meant to be leaving the NoDeal tariff schedule was described as temporary – perhaps if had been called ‘transitional’ people would have been happier.

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

          Almostdead, So you think that the EU does not need our fish? What are they going to do – steal even more fish from the Africans than they do now?

          • steve
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

            NickC

            “What are they going to do – steal even more fish from the Africans than they do now?”

            No, they’ll try it on with us. Remains to be seen if we will have leaders with the balls to kick the thieving bstds out of our waters.

      • nhsgp
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

        Massive tariffs on BMW.
        Heck we can even fine VW 10% of Turnover for their emissions fraud and keep the money.
        You know, fines are the new taxes

        • steve
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

          nhgsp

          “Massive tariffs on BMW.”

          Hopefully.

          • margaret howard
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

            Steve

            Can’t you afford one?

      • steve
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

        Shirley

        Excellent post.

        Macron himself proclaimed that French access to UK waters was paramount. He should have been told there and then in no uncertain terms not a cat in hell’s chance.

      • margaret howard
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink

        Shirley

        “First, just because the EU take decades to agree trade deals, no other ‘country’ does.”

        So tell us Shirley how did the EU manage to become the world’s biggest, wealthiest trading bloc in just 50 years following the devastation of 2 world wars?

        • Shirley
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

          MH – you forgot to mention that the EU is getting smaller in it’s % of world trade. How did that happen?

        • libertarian
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

          MH

          Oh my word

          It didn’t

          1) the EU is not the worlds biggest trading block

          2) All it did was add up all the member countries and treat it as one

          3) The EU share of the market has reduced drastically

          4) When the UK leaves it will be vastly smaller still

          The average FTA takes 14 months between other countries the average EU trade deal takes 10 years

    • Woody
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      We are already poorer for being in the eu. We were the third largest economy in the world in 1975 when we were joined to the cabal, we are now 6th largest .. thanks for nothing eu.
      We will not have to borrow to redirect the 20 billion a year we hand over to the eurocracy plus the 80% of tariffs on imports that they grab. Plus in the real world we will generate more GDP as we can trade with the world on our terms. Decades to make deals ? Why should it when there are only 2 party’s involved and both already trade on satisfactory terms.
      Your view of fishing being irrelevant is typical remoan contempt for small businesses, especially ones that are the heart and soul of coastal and rural communities. We are fundamentally a fishing and farming nation, we should be proud of that and we should ensure these communities have the best chance of thriving . We can, outside the sclerotic, protectionist, self serving eurocracy.

      • margaret howard
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

        Woody

        Do study conditions at the time of our joining. China was run by a dictatorship under Chairman Mao, totally poverty stricken. Ditto India which was still recovering from its colonial disaster. America after being the winner of WW2 was just about the only rich powerful country left. We had become the ‘sick man of europe’ until EU membership gave us the boost we needed.

        • Lindsay McDougall
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

          What tosh. Our growth rate in the 1950s was 2.75% and industrial relations were relatively benign. Then came 20 years of Socialism from 1959 to 1979 (Socialist is as socialist does and there is no way that MacMillan and Heath could be called Tories). Recovery began in 1979 and a key feature of the recovery was re-establishing fiscal prudence in the teeth of advice from 365 neo-Keynesian economists (Mr Redwood, please note). That and removing the immunity from being sued that Trade Unions had enjoyed. Membership of the EEC, as it then was, had little to do with it.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

          MH

          For the final time the UK was labeled the sick man of Europe AFTER WE JOINED THE ECC, we hade to call in the IMF whilst a member of the EEC

          You are deluded

    • James Bertram
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

      Newmania – “What A Tangled Web We Weave When First We Practice To Deceive”
      Since when did British people stop eating fish?
      Good comments from Shirley and Woody.
      Protecting our fishing industry also increases employment in boatbuilding and revives the economies of many coastal towns.
      For a more informed view I suggest you read George Monbiot’s ‘Feral’ – chapter on rewilding the sea. We need strict protection for 30% of our seas (2004 Royal Commission report) and in addition, buffer zones. This could increase total stocks by 4 to 10 times in a short period of time.
      A New Economics Foundation report (2012) suggests the failure to protect fish stocks properly costs the European Union 82,000 jobs and 3 billion Euros a year.
      When we do leave the EU we must keep all foreign fishing boats out of our waters and restore our fishing grounds to much greater productivity.
      Leaving the EU provides us with a great opportunity to revive our fishing (and boatbuilding) industry, and restore the economy of our coastal towns.
      Glass half full here.

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      We all act for what we think is best for our children. I have broken myself financially raising my own and am still supporting them educationally into their mid twenties.

      Do stop claiming this most sacred of moral high grounds for yourself.

    • Colin Hart
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      When, if ever, will you understand that WTO sets, by agreement, maximum tariffs?

    • rose
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      I suggest you listen to Peter Shore and Barbara Castle on Youtube at the Oxford Union in 1975. Apart from Shore’s concerns about currency movements, the arguments haven’t really changed.

  6. Lifelogic
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Plus get rid of all the foolish and restrictive red tape paricularly in employment rights. We can accept only quality and wanted immigration on a non racist (EU good all else bad basis). We can replace VAT with a more sensible simpler tax.

    • Newmania
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

      paricularly in employment rights

      The ones the Leave campaign promised to enhance if anything you mean , those ones?
      Perhaps if some of you worked you might feel a little differently ?

      • Anonymous
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:00 am | Permalink

        A lot of so called employment rights can be thanked on American style no-win-no-fee, not the EU, which has brought us none other than… *modern slavery*. Taa daaaa !

      • sm
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

        Newmania, I do find it rather ominous that you believe you know the personal circumstances of ALL the posters here.

        I’m quite happy to state that I am now retired, and the only pension I receive is the basic State one (fixed at the rate it stood at when I left the UK, as I’m an ex-pat). I do have however very vivid memories of running a small business during the ERM debacle, for instance.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

        What make you think I do not work, I work about 80 hours a week. Made rather worse by insane tax laws, endless red tape and other government lunacies.

        • Newmania
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

          On your allotment ?

          • Fred H
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

            at least those who do will eat – you are going to starve according to the Remainers on here. ha ha.

        • Anonymous
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:28 am | Permalink

          I often work 60 hr weeks, Lifelogic.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

        The
        Excessive employment rights hurt employees as well as businesses. They mean that good employees have to carry other employees and makes businesses less competitive and less able to pay higher wages. The main thing employees need is lots of alternative jobs. It kills this too. A lose lose for all but a few poor employees who work the system and for largely parasitic lawyers, hr experts and tribunal employees.

        Employment

      • libertarian
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

        Newmania

        The UK has the strongest workers rights in Europe

        10 EU countries have either no minimum wage or NMW below 2 euros per hour

        UK workers get 37 days paid leave
        Germany 33
        Estonia, Spain, Latvia, Portugal 23
        Poland 20 days

        EU mandatory maternity/paternity leave is 14 weeks
        UK maternity/paternity leave is 39 weeks

        Youth unemployment in UK is currently 10% v 20% France, 30% Spain/Italy, 40% Greece.

        UK unemployment is 3.8%

        Employment rights are WORSE in the EU than the UK

        Please let me know which EU workers rights are better

        Youre welcome

        • hefner
          Posted July 10, 2019 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

          OMG, the UK workers have 28 days of statutory paid annual leave, that’s 5.6 weeks of holidays according to gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights. Whether you give more to your employees is up to you, libby. You might be a good boss, or as I suspect you are counting week-ends as part of ‘paid leave’. What a sad joke from somebody who pretended in the past to lecture on business.

    • Andy
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      Which employment rights do you want to scrap? Tell us specifically so we can judge your plan.

      Incidentally – as a retired person I note you are happy to scrap other people’s rights, which of your rights should we target?

      • Woody
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        The UK already has better employee rights than the eu requires … and it always has had. Why should that change ? Surely our government will ensure that to be the case … and if they don’t WE CAN CHANGE THEM … very unlike the eurocracy, they tend to offer the top jobs to their preferred puppets, usually second rate failed politicians and even some criminals we now find.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        Andy, As a Remainer I note you are happy to scrap other people’s rights; which of your rights should we target?

        • Andy
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

          I don’t want to scrap your rights. I want to scrap your handouts.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

            Pensions are paid for by contributions over many years of paying in.
            They are not handouts.

            Do stop being such a troll Andy.

          • Fred H
            Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

            Andy …do you mean the national fund I have paid into for 49 years? About time I drew some of the savings, don’t you think? At least the NHS helps some of us actually get to draw – time was workers died before they could draw from the fund. But then you seem so ignorant that wouldn’t have been understood by you?

          • NickC
            Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

            Andy, That is just the issue: you do want to scrap my rights. My right to elect and de-elect my government. My right to have a say in who, and how many, migrants come here. My right to live in an independent nation. My right not to subsidise your EU empire. My right to live in a common law jurisdiction. My right not to be extradited on no evidence. And so on.

            The EU can only “give” rights it steals from the nation states. That’s because the EU is completely artificial so it has no rights of its own to “give”.

            Worse, the EU can take away the rights it “gives”, and you can’t do a darn thing about it.

          • Lindsay McDougall
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

            For Edward2: Private pensions are paid from past contributions, either from a company pension fund or, more recently, from the contributions of the individual.

            Public sector pensions are different. There is no fund. Current pensions are paid by current taxes and NI.

  7. Shirley
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    Money is not a good enough reason to give up ones sovereignty and powers of self government. Even if the EU powers were altruistic (which they are not), it still wouldn’t be a good enough reason.

    I do believe we will be happier and better off financially after a short period of uncertainty. The uncertainty would continue for ever and ever if we were to Remain in the EU. Countries can cooperate and run joint projects without the need of a greedy power hungry supranational government that splashes our cash on ‘buying’ power and loyalty for themselves.

    • Andy
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:23 am | Permalink

      It’s not going very well so far, is it?

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

        Andy

        Absolutely agree, its been and utter shambles, but what did you expect with a Remainer in charge of negotiations for the last 3 years.

      • J
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:07 am | Permalink

        That is probably because we haven’t left.

        Careful there, you are in danger of pointing out the reason it is not going very well, is because the EU contravened its own laws, preferring to have the UK as a vassal state, rather than a friendly independent country to trade with.
        https://brexitcentral.com/the-bbcs-latest-brexit-documentary-shows-the-contempt-in-which-the-eu-negotiators-hold-us/

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        We have not started yet – this is still a Remainer S***show! So not very good no –

      • William Potter
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

        Yes Andy you are correct it is not going very well so far, now why is that? Its all down to the remainer HOC & HOL who do not want to do what the population has told them what we want. Once we are out on WTO then those two problems can be sorted.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

          Indeed, the traitors who are still trying to undermine Boris in the negotiations even now are to blame. May undermined herself anyway and will doubtless join them.

          May has full confidence in the ambassador to the USA why? As he thinks, totally wrongheadedly, just like she and most top civil servants do one assumes. He needs to go and now.

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:13 am | Permalink

        Because of people who are cut from the same cloth as you, Andy.

      • Dennisa
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

        Have we left then?

    • Ian!
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      So true. If we make a mistake, we can correct it.

      If we want to support our agriculture we can do. If we want to support our fishing we can do. If We want to support British Steel we can do – so these guys get to keep their jobs.

      The uncertainty is all in the minds of the of the ‘project fear’ proponents.

      Give people control and asperation and they rise to the occasion

      • AlmostDead
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        Supporting industries that are not competitive is ridiculous. These industries must sink or swim. If they die so be it. The government should not be involved in picking winners or losers.

        • Caterpillar
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:25 am | Permalink

          Possible reasons for the ‘want’

          (1) Option value (2) (Network) Spillovers (3) Unfair/fair competition (4) Compliance costs.

        • NickC
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

          Almostdead, That depends whether you are talking about competing businesses within one nation, or the nation’s sole business in that sector being the victim of German or Chinese mercantilism, for example.

          There is no genuine, fair, open market across frontiers. So no reason not to support a national champion that has hit hard times. I do not subscribe to your view that we will be looked after by Jonny Foreigner if we scrap our vital businesses.

          • AlmostDead
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 11:07 am | Permalink

            All you are doing is making us pay more for products of suspect quality. Let me buy what I want from the world at world prices and screw this homegrown junk.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:34 am | Permalink

        Ian!
        A partial steel aside – maintained BISF houses still going after 70 years.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:04 am | Permalink

      It is not that choice we will be far better off leaving as well as gaining our freedom. After some minor adjustments – though avoiding Corbyn, Mc Donnall/SNP will be rather important!

    • Newmania
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      Gee thanks for old fingers crossed analysis and I shall assume that you ,mean other people`s money.

  8. agricola
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Yet another advantage is that we are free to choose our own methods of power generation while at the same time applying science and engineering to erradicate it’s emmission downsides.

    Most important we can control who we share this still green and pleasant land with. Welcoming those who wish to contribute positively, but removing those of proven criminal intent. Just as important we can retain and develope those characteristics that have always made the UK a place we appreciate and recognise. Those would be migrants who enter Europe, travel it’s length, acquire an inflatable only fit to be a yacht tender, and then set forth across the busiest shipping lane in the World to reach England are giving us the greatest vote of confidence any nation could wish for. Ask yourselves why when they have the choice of Italy, France, and Spain while in transit. Places we enjoy by the million as holiday destinations. They must see something in England, other than financial hand outs, that they do not see elsewhere. Something the settled population has lost sight of.

  9. formula57
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    We will need a government ready to take a lead in grasping and exploiting the myriad opportunities though.

  10. Andy
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    Prison for those who let no deal happen.

    • Richard1
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

      Prison for those promulgating project fear if it all turns out fine?

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:07 am | Permalink

      No. You don’t get your choice on who goes to prison. There are many politicians who would be in prison by now had it been put to the court of public opinion but it wasn’t, rightly.

      Funnily you can commit the worst crimes against humanity but stand against the EU and you go to prison. Says it all.

      • Andy
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

        If you commit the worst crimes against humanity you should be tried and jailed if convicted.

        The reason why Brexiteers will end up in prison is simple. This is not about a policy disagreement. This is about a concerted campaign by leading Brexiteers in government and Parliament to reject facts, to ignore evidence, to dismiss experts, to slander civil servants and anyone who dare question their project. Their behaviour is criminal and grossly negligent towards our country and our future.

        I don’t care if the inquiry starts in 2024, 2034 or 2044. But it’ll come in the end and some of today’s MPs will end up in prison.

        • Jiminyjim
          Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

          This is a joke. Your comments on this site are totally fact-free

        • Pominoz
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 1:44 am | Permalink

          “I don’t care if the inquiry starts in 2024, 2034 or 2044. But it’ll come in the end and some of today’s MPs will end up in prison.’

          I do hope you are right, Andy. But we may each be looking at different candidates for justice.

        • libertarian
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          WIBBLE

    • Cliff. Wokingham
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

      Andy,
      You keep repeating the nonsense about sending Brexiters to prison. Just a quick question: Which offenses do you believe have been committed and what statute will you rely on to get your wish?
      Do you intend to introduce retrospective legislation to facilitate your fantasy?
      You do know that retrospective legislation goes against international law?
      Thanks in anticipation of your reply.

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      Andy, No, it is traitors who go to prison – those who sell out (or in your case give away for free) their own nation to a foreign power.

    • Posted July 9, 2019 at 4:05 am | Permalink

      The U.K. has already done 46 years as a slave state 😠(no control over its destiny) – time for parole!

  11. Gordon Pugh
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    What a tiresome little Englander rant from someone who has clearly never read any Adam Smith.

    • Simeon
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      If for argument’s sake one allows that you have a valid point to make about our host’s economic credentials, had it not occurred that perhaps he has read it but (from your point of view) misinterpreted it? One can read a thing and not understand it. Perhaps this is so in your case. Perhaps not. But from your comment, who could tell? The one thing of substance you say is that our host is a little Englander. This is nonsense, though it would be fascinating to watch you attempt to justify the comment. My guess is that you are what might be called a little European. Perhaps you could show why I’ve guessed wrong.

    • J Bush
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      At least we are not subservient little europeans. We look to the World.

      “We have our own dream and our own task. We are with Europe, but not of it. We are linked but not combined. We are interested and associated but not absorbed. If Britain must choose between Europe and the open sea, she must always choose the open sea.”

      Churchill 11 May 1953

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

      Gordon Pugh, What a tiresome little Remainer rant from someone who has clearly never read any Adam Smith. Or indeed anything other than Remain rags.

  12. Lifelogic
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    I see that the office of tax simplification has mad some trivial suggestion on inheritance tax. This organisation was set up nine years ago since when the tax code is about twice as complex and twice as stupid and misguided.

    The simplification required is to abolish it but have capital gains tax on death. Though the CGT rate should have inflation adjustment and be at a sensible rate of about 20%.

    This way the whole parasitic industry of IHT avoidance can be killed and these people can get productive jobs instead. More money will be taken in other taxes and investment will be chosen more sensibly rather than for tax reasons.

    Hammond’s idiotic pension pot and other tax laws are causing doctors and other to retire or not to bother to work this increasing waiting times at the NHS even further. They are also constipating the SE housing market with absurd rates of up to 15% stamp duty. He is killing the important housing letting industry (and thus job mobility) too. By taxing profit that have not been made and daft OTT bank regulations. This appalling tax to death economic illiterate EU loving dope must go now and all this damage must be undone. He has not even given us the promised £1 million each IHT threshold yet just some silly complicate fudge instead. The USA has about £8 million per person and sensible countries have no IHT.

    He is destroying confidence with his project fear and with his highest taxes for 50 years and total lack of of can do vision. Also with his expensive, idiotic and unreliable energy and greencrap agenda. Plus the endless government waste on things like HS2.

    We need a low (and simple) tax Conservative at heart and actually in action. Osborne and Hammond have been tax, borrow, increase complexity and endless waste disasters.

    Why is the foolish US ambassador still in his post? He exhibits so much that is wrong with most top civil servants.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      He did not even do PPE so has little excuse – just surrounded by group state sector/civil service/big government knows best think I suppose.

  13. Dave Andrews
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    Even if we don’t reduce tariffs, we still keep the customs receipts ourselves, not send 80% of them to Brussels.

    • nhsgp
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      The problem with politicians is that they think tariffs are free. They don’t pay them.
      They however cost us 8.8 bn a year.
      So when you hear 38 bn, remember the costs we pay, the 80 bn a year for Mays deal, are excluded.

  14. Dominic
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    This site needs an approval-disapproval system that allows its users to ‘tick-up’ or ‘tick-down’ each contribution according to merit. Similar to Guido or CW

    I for one appreciate John’s efforts with regards to keeping this website operating. It allows us all a valuable conduit and forum to express our deepest frustrations, views and concerns

    Thanks

    • Banania
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      A tick for that!

    • sm
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

      It’s a system that is open to mis-use, however.

    • Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      I do agree with the up/down ticks. It would save us trying to find a way of putting down the naysayers (you know who you are) and it’d be better for the blood pressure!

    • Everhopeful
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

      Dominic
      Big down tick for that idea.
      This comments section is the nearest we are likely to get to free speech.
      The “tick” system gags people and also encourages trolls.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

        Everhopeful, You are right. JR’s blog is free of the tyranny of artificially manipulated up – or down – ticks.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      Dominic,

      Really disagree with the up/down, I much prefer the free form as I tend to read wider views that way.
      Things I’d like are (i) time published as well as time submitted and (ii) email notification if someone has commented on your comment – one can feel rude. That said it is Sir John’s site and not our message board.

      • Pominoz
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 1:59 am | Permalink

        Caterpillar,

        Agree very much with your time published and e-mail notification comments. At times one can appear to repeat comments already made, therefore appearing unoriginal. Also, it is good to see if your comment has generated a response which, ideally, requires acknowledgement.

        However, I find it quite amazing that Sir John manages this site, apparently all himself, as effectively as he does. I, for one, am so grateful that I have the opportunity to read such a wide variety of personal views. Whilst, at times, a few are disrespectful (unforgiveable if directed towards our host), in the main they are constructive and, overall, perhaps give a much fairer picture of public opinion than is ever conveyed in ‘one-person’ or editorial policy views of the MSM.

        Thanks so much, Sir John, for facilitating this superb site.

        • Caterpillar
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

          Pominoz,

          Agreed – ‘three cheers’ for Sir John.

  15. Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    WE could revolutionize out outdated tax system and make it fit for purpose..

    WE wouldn’t be stuck with inane restrictions and petty regulations that drain our strength and sanity…

    WE would be free to kick out terrorists … and clean up the justice system..

    But best of all; WE would be free to make our own mistakes and our own future…

    • Andy
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      We can do all the things you want in the EU.

      The only difference outside is that we are poorer and less relevant.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

        That’s not correct Andy
        Tax, if we wanted to abolish VAT for example, and replace it with a more simple sales tax we could not do that under EU treaty law.
        Regulations, we cannot abolish things like VATMOSS, GDPR, REACH or any other EU derived rules, regulations or directives.
        Deporting criminals has been greatly hampered by the right to family life, which is due to our membership of the EU.

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

        Andy – it’s not all about your bank balance.
        Haven’t you grasped that yet?

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

        Andy, Wrong. Still not read Declaration 17? Bryan Harris is correct, we can do none of the things he lists whilst we remain under EU control.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      Hammond and Osborne have given us very high and totally insane taxes. Doctors and many other refusing to do overtime as it is simply not worth their while! Landlords (thus tenants) tax on profit they have not even made, 15% stamp duty to move home, IHT above just £325K it is insane.

  16. GilesB
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    The 95% of businesses that neither import nor export to the EU can stop reading EU regulations. Or paying for advice on how to comply. And stop lying awake at night worrying whether they have complied or not with a regulation they have never heard of.

    Instead they can plan expansion: take on more staff and address the fastest growing regions – all outside the giant squid of the EU.

    • Nigl
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      Indeed. I used to do a lot of work with SMEs and one in particular kept all the paper, advice, change in regs, tax rates, requests for information, questionnaires that came from Government etc for six months and it was a truly nonsensical amount of paper and he had to manage a business.

    • Andy
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      And to do that they will need to pay for advice to comply with regulations in all of those fast growing regions, and they will have to worry about whether they have complied with things they have never heard of.

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

        Andy, The vast majority of businesses and the vast majority of UK GDP is domestic (c69% UK GDP), so worrying about being caught out by silly EU regulations (knitted wool sheep ornaments anyone?) won’t be an issue at all. UK regulations will be less subject to corporatist lobbying, less dirigiste, more sensible, and more understandable – being written in English as a first language.

    • nhsgp
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

      120-240 bn a year cost of EU regulations.
      For that 95% we can make serious cost savings

  17. Mark B
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    Without wishing to sound critical of our kind host, this is mostly just a wish list. To me Leaving the EU is a political decision. A decision to be an independent sovereign nation once more. With that we can do much more, not just for ourselves but, for others too.

    We have lived under the yoke of the EU for so long at least one generation does not know what it means and the benefits of being a sovereign power. To them I say this, you have no more to fear of living in a non-EU member state than you have being an independent person.

    • Andy
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      I am an independent person and I live in the UK, currently an EU member state.

      After Brexit all that happens is that I have fewer rights and I get poorer.

      Why am I supposed to think this is a good thing?

      • Glenn Vaughan
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:27 am | Permalink

        Andy

        Shut up and get down to your local job centre. Paid employment will do you the world of good.

      • J Bush
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

        By gum Andy, you are a wee busy bee when promoting the EU. Comment at 08.09, 08.11 and now this.

      • Ian!
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

        In the EU you have no rights other than those conferred on you by the EU overlords. That’s it full stop!

        Under what is termed Common Law, the only rights taken away from you are those that you Government has taken from you. Even then you can change the Government change the Law, amend the law even.

        One is a dictatorship run by an Elite, the other is a Democracy run by its People.

        Did you get to choose your EU President (ruler)? can you remove them if they are rubbish?

      • NickC
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

        Andy, When we leave the EU the rights stolen off you by the EU will be restored. And whoever heard of a colony prospering, especially given the contempt our current EU masters have for us? So we will become better off out. Why don’t you think this is a good thing?

      • matthu
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

        Because you would be upholding democracy?

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

        Can you perhaps explain why you would have fewer rights when the Withdrawal Bill wrote all the EU laws into UK law. If we choose to change them, there’s no reason yo assume they get worse. Why not better?

        And exactly why will you be getting poorer? We’re nt in the Euro, you live in the UK and presumably work in the UK and pay UK taxes. What’s changing exactly?

        Do you have a reasoned argument or are you just stirring up Project Fear. Or indeed are you stupid enough to base your argument – sorry, unsubstantiated argument – on Project Fear?

        I think we should be told…

    • Simeon
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      Thing is, I think many people would rather not have the responsibility of personal independence. National independence is, for many, an abstraction they think nothing of.

    • Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      But it’s a case of Stockholm syndrome, isn’t it, Mark B? There’s not much that these fearful ones will listen to in the way of common sense.

    • margaret howard
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

      Mark B

      “We have lived under the yoke of the EU for so long at least one generation does not know what it means and the benefits of being a sovereign power. ”

      Well I’ve lived in pre EU Britain and all I can say is that I’ve never heard anybody complaining about living under the ‘EU yoke’.

      Just what sovereign power are we supposed to have lost?

      Instead we have become healthier, richer, better traveled, better educated and people having opportunities nobody could have dreamed of in my youth.

      EXIT BREXIT so that our children/grandchildren don’t lose these fantastic opportunities in a wonderful, free Europe rather than become the 51st US state.

      • NickC
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:22 am | Permalink

        Margaret Howard, It is you that doesn’t want the UK to be independent, not me. But if we must be ruled by a foreign power – as you insist – then being the 51st State of the USA is far a better proposition than being a colony (didn’t you see that’s what they call us?) of your EU empire.

  18. George Brooks
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    We could be starting to reap these benefits if we had come out on 29th March.

    Listening to John Major on Steven Sakur’s ”Hard Talk” on the World service this morning he explained exactly how he and MP Remainers got us into this mess. A flat refusal to accept the result of the referendum and stating it was parliament’s job to keep us in the EU as they all know better than we do.

    A fantastically conceited old fool with a completely defeatist attitude with regard to the future of this country

    • Iain Moore
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      It was pretty hard to swallow Major bemoaning the loss of pragmatic Government and all the ills that the Brexiteer ideologues would foist on the country, happily forgetting his EU fanatical ideologue experiment, the ERM, which did make us poorer, a recession that was only relieved when the markets knocked us out of the ERM, against his every effort, including jacking up interest rates to 15% .

      Major would be well advised to keep his council, especially considering he could quite reasonably be called the Grandfather of Brexit. As I mentioned above because of the ERM, but also the Maastricht treaty that he rammed through parliament on a vote of confidence. There was no ‘ Oh we have got to take note of the other side’, as he is now demanding for the 48%. No, they were ‘bastards’, which was the start of the intolerant divisive language in the EU debate, but also because Maastricht lit the slow fuse of the political EU, changes to the free movement of people etc, that blew up in the faces of the establishment in the referendum.

    • agricola
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

      Don’t expect too much entepreneurial, positive can do from a bank clerk. Were they of that ilk they would own the bank or be making their fortune elsewhere.

    • Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

      Major surely cannot be expressing the view that we leavers are not upto the same intelligence calibre as remoan MP’s – surely NOT…

      Or was he suggesting that something else is going on that MP’s refuse to share with us – That might be more realistic given the silence we have suffered from most MP’s on what the EU was really about for the last 40 years…

    • Mitchel
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

      I remember a HardTalk interview with Sergey Lavrov a year or so ago;amongst a number of classic Lavrov interjections to Sackur’s blather was :”you want hardtalk,we want hard evidence.”

    • NickC
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

      George Brooks, I do appreciate your description of John Major as a “fantastically conceited old fool with a completely defeatist attitude”. There’s quite a few of them in the establishment, including our erstwhile ambassador in Washington, Sir Kim Darroch – who Theresa May apparently has “full faith” in. One fantastically conceited old fool supported by another. Typical.

  19. Ian!
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    Looking at the latest estimations/predictions of costs, anyone signing Mrs May and the EU’s WA would commit the UK to some £394 billion.

    That’s the equivalent to each individual taxpayer in the UK paying an additional £9,850 tax – for no return!

  20. Tabulazero
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    “Sign Free trade deals that suit us with other countries – all the time we were member s they never managed an FTA with the USA and many Commonwealth countries”

    It is funny you forgot to mention that Canada has already said no to rolling the EU-Canada trade deal with the UK post-Brexit.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      And how much difference do you think that would make, in practice?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Economic_and_Trade_Agreement#Research_commissioned_by_negotiating_parties

      “The EU-Canada Trade Sustainability Impact Assessment (SIA), a three-part study commissioned by the European Commission to independent experts and completed in September 2011, provides a comprehensive prediction on the impacts of CETA. It predicts a number of macro-economic and sector-specific impacts, suggesting the EU may see increases in real GDP of 0.02–0.03% in the long-term from CETA, whereas Canada may see increases of 0.18–0.36% … “

    • acorn
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

      The word from number crunchers is there will be an EU – US trade deal wrapped up by 31st October as the big finish for the Juncker commission. Malmstrom is pushing the U.S. on eliminating vehicle / industrial tariffs in a bid to enact the July 2018 political accord that paused the tit-for-tat tariff war with the EU started by Trump. It is claimed the deal will boost US – EU 27 trade by 10 – 13%. Trump needs big trade deal wins for his re-election. He can only get them with the EU and/or China.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

        Any increase in trade with the US would undoubtedly be helpful for those who are involved in the processes of that trade, but how much would it benefit the rest of us, on either side of the Atlantic?

        This is from April 29 2015:

        http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2015/04/29/parliament-the-media-and-numbers/#comment-764434

        “In fact £10 billion would be equivalent to something like 0.6% of our present GDP; and remember that GDP grows over time at a long term trend rate of something like 2.5% a year, so it would rise by that 0.6% over maybe 3 average months of natural growth.

        I mention this figure of £10 billion because at an election meeting here last week a question was asked about potential risks to the NHS from the proposed Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, TTIP, between the EU and the US:

        http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/in-focus/ttip/

        and the Conservative candidate, one Theresa May, extolled its virtues and said that it would provide a £10 billion boost to our economy.

        That would, of course, be a one-off rise in GDP, and as that one-off rise of £10 billion or 0.6% would be spread over a number of years it would pale into insignificance compared to the £100 billion or £200 billion added through natural growth.

        Even if they were actually achieved all the claimed economic benefits of the EU Single Market would represent a pretty small mess of pottage for which our politicians have been only too willing to sell our national birthright, and despite Cameron and May and others talking it up the benefits of TTIP would be even smaller.”

        • acorn
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

          Denis, the TTIP is dead, Trump killed it. You appear to be thinking about 3 years behind the curve. The current EU-US negotiations are based on the Trump – Juncker accord of July 2018. Trump got told by his techies, that the EU was actually a bigger global trading bloc than the US; think twice before you take it on; which, remarkably, he did.

          Question. Do you think all UK Ambassador’s diplomatic correspondence should be posted on Twitter. Just like the US President posts all his – less than diplomatic – correspondence on twitter?

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

            There is no reason to suppose that the economic importance of any new EU-US trade deal would be markedly superior to the mere 0.6% of GDP projected for TTIP. That is the point, which as usual you have managed to miss.

      • NickC
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

        Acorn, Trade “deals” are a two edged sword. As we have found to our cost with the existing EU deal.

  21. A.Sedgwick
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    David Gauke will resign.

  22. Everhopeful
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    And all UK politicians will be accountable …like they used to be.
    Even the local councillors will once again have to RESPOND to communications.
    At the moment they cower behind an EU firewall asserting that “ nothing can be done.”
    Well a clear chain of command into the heart of government will hopefully see to that!
    I look forward to once again having contact with my MP because my vote counts ( which increasingly under the EU it does not!).

    • Everhopeful
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      On second thoughts maybe that optimism is misplaced.
      Incredibly we took part in the EU elections …and the good result for nationalists turns out to mean nothing ( neatly side stepped by another rule change re recent election).
      We are still silently embroiled in the EU defence union.
      So sadly October 31st will probably just be about pumpkins and witches.

      • Mitchel
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

        Lots of tricks,no treats!

  23. Dominic
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    From today’s DT as written by a normal politician, Farage –

    ‘News that the British ambassador to Washington, Sir Kim Darroch, has lambasted Donald Trump in a series of memos back to London comes as little surprise to me. I knew Darroch several years ago when he was our man in Brussels and swiftly concluded he was not my sort of chap.

    Indeed, I recall one occasion when he came into my office and compromised himself in a rather devastating way. During our conversation, I said to him: ‘You’re a professional civil servant, aren’t you supposed to be neutral?’ He replied: ‘No. It’s our policy that the European Union is a good thing.’ I asked him to leave. I couldn’t see the point in even continuing to have the conversation. ‘

    And this is what the British are up against. The enemy within masquerading as the protector of the UK interest abroad.

    We need a brutal Eurosceptic PM to purge the Europhile British state and to repair the damage deliberately inflicted upon the UK and our closest ally the US

    I believe pro-EU, anti-Trump forces are determined to embrace any tactic to destroy what they see as a threat

  24. Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    And the BiG one: Sack our own Lawmakers!

  25. Simeon
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    All very good Sir John, but how do we get there? This Parliament doesn’t want it. It won’t vote for it. In fact, it will vote against it. So will Johnson (or Hunt) cobble together something that meets the approval of Parliament (but which would presumably lead you and others to collapse the government), or will he seek a Parliament that will vote for Brexit by calling a GE? If there is another way, I’d love to hear it.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:48 am | Permalink

      Leaving on October 31st is the default position in existing law, so the question is how to defeat the despicable backsliding MPs who are intent on changing that law.

      And not only defeat them, but crush and humiliate them as they richly deserve.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

      The Government shouldn’t try to do anything which could result in Remainers having a vote and wrecking Brexit. They’ve already voted. The die is cast, the law says we leave 31st. October unless we ask for an extention which Boris won’t and pipsqueak Varadkar says we won’t be granted anyway. As it stands, Parliament will have to revoke Article 50 to cancel Brexit and any politician doing that will be toast as will their party. So, don’t worry, sit back, enjoy the sun and let the Remoaners froth. Its fun watching their posts get more and more shrill.

      • Simeon
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 7:01 am | Permalink

        I wouldn’t be so quick to rule out Parliament revoking Article 50 – although I think it is far more likely that the government would lose a vote of no confidence. As I understand it, a vote of no confidence in the government can be tabled at any time. It’s the nuclear option, but the stakes are sufficiently high to justify it from the Remainer’s perspective. Either way, preventing a no deal Brexit is entirely within Parliament’s power. Only a Parliament committed to delivering a clean and proper Brexit can and will do so.

  26. Shirley
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    It’s going a darn site better than many EU countries, including Germany, the country which benefits the most from the EU and the Euro.

    It hasn’t gone very well for the EU, has it?

  27. KeithL
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Well not long to go now- we’ll see if any of these 10 big wins win through, and if they do, don’t forget that we read it here first

  28. bigneil
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    I sincerely hope that leaving would mean we deport people like the Romanian criminal, who we have been told, has to stay, because of EU law. A burden and a danger to us – but we HAVE to let him stay. Free victims to rob, while we pay for his life of unemployment and crime, with a free NHS to make sure he’s ok if a house owner takes revenge on him ( though the police would no doubt arrest the house owner for his stance ). Brian Rix wouldn’t even star in this farce – -he would be too embarrassed.

    • steve
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

      bigneil

      “Brian Rix wouldn’t even star in this farce – -he would be too embarrassed.”

      Actually, Neil, he’d be too deceased. He passed away three years ago.

      God bless him, a wonderful man, and a true gentleman. RIP.

  29. Richard1
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    Good to see young people – 18-30 – are reportedly much responsible for the shift to a right of centre govt in Greece. Syriza’s failure is another example of the perils of politicians saying one thing and doing another. Mr Tsipras wanted resistance to EU economic govt + socialism, but being in the euro system couldn’t deliver it. Of course in the cas eof the socialism that’s just as well. But it’s not democracy.

  30. Ian terry
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    Sir John.

    For all your fellow politicians who if Grieve is to be believed will try to stop a no deal exit, a quote that has more than an element of truth:

    “We do not believe any group of men adequate enough to operate without scrutiny or without criticism. We know the only way to avoid error is to detect it, that the only way to detect it is to be free to inquire. We know that in secrecy error undetected will flourish and subvert”. J Robert Oppenheimer

    Is this the reason why every time when asked nobody ever comes out with a plausible answer to ” Why should we stay in with all that the EU are planning for its federal future”

  31. Edwardm
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    What’s not to like.
    Free of EU chains. Sovereignty restored.
    Keep £39B.
    And not on the hook for Euro bailout – though how come that has been so ?

    A pity our parliament has so little talent and is so full of egos and miserable defeatists like Grieve and the Labour party.

  32. Ian terry
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Cut the costs of government by getting rid of a whole unnecessary EU level

    Not just at the EU level, across the whole spectrum of parliament, civil and public services.

  33. Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    The comments here make for a good barometer as to how things are going towards a successful Brexit. The more optimistic things looks, the more frothings and foamings there are from the likes of Andy, Newmania, etc.
    We know we’re heading in the right direction if they’re slightly hysterical.

    • Jiminyjim
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

      Well said, LJ. The only word I would disagree with is ‘slightly’. It’s become noticeable that Andy and Margaret H and their followers are now terrified that a new PM will, hopefully, get us cleanly out of the EU in just over three months. In the last few weeks they have been reacting in a completely irrational and increasingly hysterical way

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

        But we still aren’t really clear as to why they are so afraid. As far as Andy is concerned, it’s obviously something to do with personal finances. As far as the others are concerned, it seems to be a fear of being proved wrong. None of them tell us, ruefully, about the good things their EU would have brought to us had we remained.

        Still, once they begin to share in our bright new future they’ll have to eat their words. Let’s try not to be too smug.

  34. nhsgp
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    Negated by the 80 bn a year cost of May’s deal.
    Plus 100 bn one off payments

  35. Colin Hart
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    11. Any political party calling for us to re-join will be dead meat.

  36. The PrangWizard
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    I fear that the savings will be frittered away and no-one will notice where they have been spent. The NHS is for example a bottomless pit where, as soon as there is a whiff of more money, more demands are made to expand its remit and waste continues, and indeed will increase.

    We should set up a sovereign wealth or reserve fund instead and outside any existing arrangements, with the annual estimation of savings deposited and not to be touched for say twenty years. After that some of the estimated savings could be spent only when deposited, (that is no taking from the established fund and no spending of future income) if needed for specific capital or emergency projects only which would otherwise not have been possible; these to be plastered all over with big signs saying where the money has come from. Beneficiaries would need to fund the future maintenance costs.

    I know the response, ‘can’t be done’, ‘ridiculous’.

  37. Bill
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    And all of these will come about because we voted to take back the control of OUR Country. Only the British should ever govern the British.

    • Ian!
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

      The same for any FREE people. Government by the people for the people. Not Government by the needs of a Political Elite

    • Pletikosa
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

      I totally agree. This is why i do not trust J Redwood. He wants us to bow the knee to the WTO.

      • Bill
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 11:31 am | Permalink

        Nobody has to ‘bow the knee to the WTO’. However, the members must confirm to their rules and regulations. Without rules or regulations how could it possibly work?
        As an Independent Nation, Britain will have its own seat in the WTO and no longer be represented by the EU, who will always put the interests of Germany and France before any other. As a member of the EU, we are a member of the WTO but do not have any voting rights so we do not have any say in the rules and regulations.

    • Fred H
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      Bill….it would be nice for the English to govern the English for a change. Instead of the Barnett hangers-on.,

  38. agricola
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Ref our ambassador in Washington’s comments. It is important to the government in the UK that he tells it as he sees it. It must be remembered what that US, bootlegging ambassador Joe Kennedy had to say about the UK at the outset of WW2. He was totally wrong too.

    Two points, it was very wrong, if not criminal, to leak the contents of our man’s communications. The comments came from a career member of the “Swamp”. He would have a very different concept of how PMs and Presidents should behave than the way in which an out and out, can do, business man might behave when faced with a political “Swamp” in Washington. It reflects the limited career experience of our civil service. They do not know how to handle alien martians. Maybe their career path should include five years in industry with one of our own Alan Sugars.

    • formula57
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

      Agreed. And Darroch’s remarks may be unexceptional. What does ” he tells it as he sees it” produce in the dispatches from Paris, Moscow, Johannesburg, Canberra and Brasilia among others? And does anyone in London take them at face value?

  39. hans chistian ivers
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Sir JR,

    I just have one simple question :

    How much is this going to cost us in lost income, leaving the EU?
    Will we save more or loose more?

    Reply should be a net gain

    • hefner
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:48 am | Permalink

      Next questions: on what time scale? how can you be sure that on that time-scale another configuration would not have been more beneficial?
      These are the real questions that no economists nor any politician can answer for sure. Politicians sell dreams, some for a lot of money (eg, Mr Johnson with his weekly DT chronicle), some more generously (like Sir John with his free access daily commentary on the actuality).
      The funny bit (at least for me) is that a big bunch of the population (nicely represented on this blog) give credence to these soothsayers, but jump like young rabbits when told of potential problems with the environment.
      I really think that they will deserve what comes in the next few years. Unfortunately the rest of us will also be part of that same story.

    • Shirley
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

      Why? Don’t you value democracy or sovereignty.

      Are you one of those who knows the price of everything, but the value of nothing? Why did British Colonies want independence? Why do many in Scotland want independence. It isn’t for the money, that’s for sure!

      We don’t really get a net gain from the EU now, so why do you think we will in the future?

      • hans chistian ivers
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

        Shirley

        We actually do get a net gain from the EU today according to the BoE and the Treasury

    • Ian!
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

      Agreed as stated more net gain, a lot more than is lost daily now

      • Shirley
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 11:07 am | Permalink

        Knowing their previous reports, they probably recorded the gains, and ‘forgot’ to offset the losses.

    • Original Richard
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 2:29 am | Permalink

      We are fleeced by the EU – £10bn/YEAR net payments into the EU budget (£15bn/YEAR loss of control) and soon to be increased, £100bn/YEAR trading deficit and the loss of our fishing grounds.

      However, of far more importance long-term is for us to retain some influence over our laws, taxes and policies (trade, immigration, environment, energy etc) by retaining the ability to elect and remove those who make these decisions.

      Freedom and democracy is priceless.

  40. Cromwell
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    When considering the wisdom of John Major remember – Douglas Hurd as foreign secretary wrote off the WWII reparations Germany owed us and as PM John Major approved this. Then he had the bright idea of joining the disastrous ERM, when this caused our currency to crash he asked Germany for financial help and they just waved two fingers at us.

    • margaret howard
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

      Cromwell

      Some more Daily Mail style rubbish.

      • Lindsay McDougall
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 12:41 am | Permalink

        It’s not rubbish. It was John Major’s idea that we join the ERM. As a result, we lost £2 billion on the foreign exchanges in a single afternoon. At noon, the Chancellor Norman Lamont told the PM that the game was up, that even with interest rates at 15% sterling was falling below its official range. All of that afternoon (so called Black Wednesday) Major, Hurd, Heseltine and Clarke – the leading pro-Europeans – dithered over what to. At close of business, they finally gave Norman Lamont permission to announce that Britain was leaving the ERM with immediate effect.

        The way that the ERM worked was that if someone (George Soros) bought a block of sterling at 2.50 DM to the pound, the BoE was obliged to fork out 2.79 DM per pound (the bottom of the ERM range), leaving Soros with a stoking profit and taxpayers with a stonking loss. Insane? You bet it was insane.

        Afterwards, these wretches had the nerve to blame Norman Lamont for the losses. What a bunch of rogues.

      • NickC
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 10:26 am | Permalink

        Margaret Howard, But true.

  41. Yorkie
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Mr Grieve was on TV today. Still not resigned as he declared he would , if Boris becomes PM. He leaves it to the last minute.
    In the meantime, he says any prorogation of Parliament would be “unconstitutional and undemocratic.”
    Important: he did not say it would be unlawful or illegal. He chooses his words carefully (with the general legal precision which is as precise as a nest egg.) But does leave meanings hanging in the air for any unaware person to assume that what he says incorporates, in this case, both illegal and unlawful.
    He says, if I have him right, he will stop a no-deal. He has only a few days left. He works to the bitter end. Can Boris’s ‘coronation’ be brought forward a few days so allowing Mr Grieve to retire from his own self-constructed battlefield early?

    • Andy
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      I’m sick of hearing from that self-serving p….. Prorogation is not by definition ‘unconstitutional’ nor is it undemocratic. What has been unconstitutional and profoundly anti democratic have been the increasingly desperate efforts of people like him to thwart Brexit. It is appalling how he and his mates have been quite prepared to drive a coach and four through the Constitution just to get their own way. It is not the place of the House of Commons to conduct foreign affairs nor is it their place to over rule to freely expressed will of the People in the 2016 Referendum. The behaviour of far too many Members of Parliament has been quite disgraceful.

  42. Lawrence Hartley
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    You missed out “decide who should come into our country to live and work “

    • hans chistian ivers
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

      Lawrence Hartley,

      They have stopped coming anyway and the foreign tax payers are leaving

      • steve
        Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        HCI

        But the best workers are staying. Our gain, your loss.

        • hans chistian ivers
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

          Steve,

          As a British citizen I don’t know what you are talking about, please elaborate?

      • Edward2
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 1:29 am | Permalink

        Not according to immigration figures.

        • hans chistian ivers
          Posted July 9, 2019 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          The net inflow from Eu is falling dramatically

          • Edward2
            Posted July 10, 2019 at 1:17 am | Permalink

            Overall immigration is up.

  43. rose
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    Mr Cameron would be a good replacement for Darroch. It would be a thank you to him for giving us the referendum, it would be a compliment to Trump so send him our ex PM and his pretty wife, and it would help to heal the Conservative Party.

    • Fred H
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      rose…..
      ‘ it would help to heal the Conservative Party.’

      Really? – – not a ha’porth of difference. He will be forever regarded as useless, resigned PM, abandoned his constituency in a tantrum. Another posh boy got rid.

      • Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

        He’d see it as a ‘punishment posting’! What could be fairer than that?

  44. agricola
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Just watched a Sky programme which included.a piece on how they build apartments in Sweden. Everything apart from final erection is completed in a factory. Then just one day to erect four apartments. Each cost about £75,000 done this way.

    Clear of Brexit, this is the way house provision should go. Will we get a government with sufficient wisdom and drive to solve our housing crisis this way. The Honda factory will be empty shortly and I am sure there are plenty of empty ship building sheds in the North East. Who will be the minister with wit and wisdom to kick it off. Incidentally the Swedes build five bedroom des reses in exactly the same way, and in a technical environmental sense they are streets ahead of our bricks and mortar hod carriers.

    My solution would be to encourage a Swedish home manufacturer to set up here on a ten year tax free contract. There is no shortage of land in the hands of government and the church. Put a rocket up the building industry.

    • mancunius
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      In principle, excellent – but isn’t it UK land prices and land-bank hoarding that puts up the cost of housebuilding?

    • Mark B
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 4:28 am | Permalink

      Or alternatively stop people from just turning up and living here.

  45. Paul
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

    Exactly JR, the problem however is that only ever those who don’t believe in Brexit stand a chance of leading your party and the country – and anyone who actually believes Boris will deliver Brexit on 31 Oct come what may is going to be very disappointed.

  46. Posted July 8, 2019 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    I was ejected from my constituency AGM for asking my MP what exactly we are getting for £39billion.

    I have yet to receive an answer despite that meeting and several letters. I suspect that she doesn’t know and, frankly, she damned well ought to know – especially as she is a government whip!

    • John Scot
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 5:00 am | Permalink

      Dioclese, the £39 billion is to settle existing debts, covering all future commitments undertaken while the UK was a member of the EU. It’s like settling the bill at the end of the evening in a restaurant. You don’t “get” anything in return for paying up – it’s a matter of paying for what you’ve already consumed

      • Shirley
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

        Really? Then please explain what we actually received for the £39bn that we have yet to pay for.

      • Andy
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

        On what legal basis is such a payment to be made ?? I have trawled the Treaties and I can find no reference to a departing member having to pay to leave. Nor can one fathom how such a payment could be due in Law as the EU has legal personality. And given how the EU is financed how could such a payment be demanded ??

  47. acorn
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    JR, I/We have to congratulate you on your posted 10 point plan for a “Blue Peter” level, no-deal brexit manifesto. Along with the comments you have attracted today; which are at best, from persons at circa near three standard deviations below the intellectual norm of the UK population. Additionally, your recent replies to comments are; lets say, lacking conviction.

    • Edward2
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 1:28 am | Permalink

      Another classic example of the rule, there is never a remainer comment without an insult.
      No data
      No facts
      Just negative abusive comments.
      Come on acorn you can do better.

      • hans chistian ivers
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

        Edward 2

        When clear facts are presented to you as in the case of the GINI Scale , which covers the distribution of income across a whole country, your comment is just that there are various ways of measuring income distribution, so your statement cannot be taken seriously

        • Edward2
          Posted July 10, 2019 at 1:23 am | Permalink

          Oh back on that now hans are we.
          You claimed figures for inequality used recently by another poster were wrong.
          But this was because you used your preferred measurement system called Gini and he did not.
          There are many different methods that can be used to measure inequality.
          That is a fact.
          So hans, you need to take that statement seriously because it is a fact.
          Glad to be of help.

  48. Walter
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    More delusional nonsense- because nobody knows- all of you promoters of this awful madness should have your passports withheld so that when reality dawns there’s no chance you can skip off

  49. Harka
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

    Bring it on- the suspense is killing me. Am planning to take an extended holiday in the winter time this year. Couldn’t possibly go away now in case I might miss something

  50. Posted July 8, 2019 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

    A great piece by Boris Johnson in Brexit Central. But why oh why doesn’t he tell us the reason he voted for Mrs Mays execrable surrender treaty? Why did he think it was good enough to vote for?
    This fact undermines everything he is telling us.

    • rose
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

      He didn’t think it was good enough to vote for. The PM was colluding with Parliament to sabotage Brexit, and the question facing them all was what to do about that. Some decided to vote for the thing to salvage Brexit and hope to tear it up afterwards; others decided to tough it out as it was a very bad treaty which should on no account be passed.

    • steve
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

      L.Jones

      He might have been threatened ?

  51. Mick
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7225709/Unions-tell-Labour-second-referendum-Brexit-options.html
    Surprise surprise it’s always been Labour’s hidden agenda to stay in the Eu they just didn’t want to put off the I’d vote labour if it was a red rosette on a donkey voter, but the labour voter is abit more savvy now so the labour front bench had better get use to being in opposition for a long time because the people up north will not vote for champagne socialist , labour are now not for the working man

  52. HarveyG
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    Only goes to show, we went out of our way to arrest an iranian tanker ship at the behest of the US administration and then two days later the Us President says thanks by torpedoing our already wounded Mrs May, and these are the people we were hoping to put our future hopes in for a FTA. As I say only goes to show when it comes to America- it will always be America first. A Fta with America would make us the perverbial vaperverbial. Absolutely no doubt

    • rose
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 6:03 am | Permalink

      This seems alarmingly lop sided to me: the torpedo was the leak, torpedoing Anglo American relations just when we most need them to be at their best. Very carefully timed too when you consider these emails have been selected and stored up for two years.

      Mrs May should have recalled this man as soon as Trump was elected, as it was evident he was a friend of the Clintons and the EU – so doubly unsuited to the task. His emails show him to be suffering from TDS, nurtured more by the Democrat press than by contact with the administration he was supposed to be getting to know. As Sir William Cash said in the House, it was his judgement that was at fault.

      Mrs May’s stubborn reaction is all too typical: she cannot resist an opportunity to bash Trump, hoping thereby to curry favour with all the wrong sort of people. If only she could show the same sustained aggression towards the EU. But she can’t.

      Once the leak took place, he should have resigned at once because his position is now untenable, having before that been only tolerated.

      Trump has only pointed out in his tweet what a lot of us think: this is the May pot calling the kettle black.

    • Shirley
      Posted July 9, 2019 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      Do you think the USA will demand our fishing grounds, a £10bn annual fee, free movement, handover of all import tariffs collected in the UK (and other taxes) … and that US law be supreme to UK law. If so, then I agree with you.

      • Shirley
        Posted July 9, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        ps. I thought it was EU law that required us to arrest the Iranian oil tanker. If this is true, then I suspect you won;t accuse the EU of putting the EU first.

  53. HarveyG
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Perverbial vassal state

  54. HarveyG
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    Sorry proverbial

  55. Eh?
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    Why didn’t the Editor of the Mail report a breach of Security to the Authorities prior to publication of the leaked documents about Trump? Does the Government have the old power of issuing a D-Notice? How can it decide to issue a D-Notice if an Editor does not inform Authorities before he goes to print?
    The Right, if it really exists in the UK., not to reveal sources surely cannot relate to Security matters?
    Do our Ambassadors in Moscow and Beijing now send messages to the Foreign Office, via a pigeon to a top secret pigeon coop somewhere in Barnsley South Yorkshire?

    • Eh?
      Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

      I should be careful what I write here, there’s a leak

  56. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted July 8, 2019 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

    Agreed. Tell Boris.

  57. Original Richard
    Posted July 9, 2019 at 12:32 am | Permalink

    Stop the Dutch illegally using pulse fishing in UK waters as well as regaining all our fishing waters.

    Perform our own vehicle testing so as to not be caught by EU frauds such as the German diesel emissions testing fraud and, by not being in the EU, be able to sue the manufacturers and get compensation for our consumers.

    Negotiate our own trade deals which will be to our benefit and prevent the EU negotiating access to our NHS in return for lower tariffs on German cars and French food.

  58. Original Richard
    Posted July 9, 2019 at 2:23 am | Permalink

    Control our immigration so we know in advance our population size and hence can plan to have sufficient housing, schools/teachers, hospitals/doctors/nurses, jobs, infrastructure and energy supplies etc..

    Unlike at the present.

  59. L. Boone
    Posted July 9, 2019 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    I agree with John Redwood absolutely. It will be like removing a blacksmith’s anvil from around our necks.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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