Project Fear reappears in old leaks recycled

The latest outpouring of nonsense about how the ports will  cease to work and we will be short of imports is bizarre. Both Calais and Dover have said they are ready for smooth working after October 31, whilst other Belgian and Dutch ports  are applying competitive pressure as  they would love to take more of the business. Calais/Dover have to deal with VAT, Excise and currency changes whilst we are in the EU so adding a few tariffs if some are needed does not create some new problem we haven’t already solved for other taxes. HMRC have said they don’t want to hold imported goods up with lots of new checks.

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214 Comments

  1. Mark B
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Good afternoon.

    The bottom line is, time will tell. We will not know until we have left and, even then, the effects will not be fully felt for sometime after that. There is going to be a great deal of readjusting and relearning by both the UK and the EU but, we shall get through it.

    Plague, famine and war have done far worse and, yet, we still cling to these tiny islands we call home. Some people need to get real – on both sides !

  2. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    John, do you remember Operation Stack?

    That was about a couple of fishing boats, and a mile or so of inshore waters, just at Calais, wasn’t it?

    Based on that alone, the report’s warnings of possible disruption hardly seem to be unduly alarmist or unreasonable, I would have thought.

    Unless it is absolutely unavoidable, normal people operate on the Precautionary Principle.

    Why should an exception be made, just for this minority’s obsession with doctrinal purity?

    • Edward2
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

      There are dozens of ports of entry and many airports, so why do you only talk of Dover?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

        There were dozens of other ports at the time of Operation Stack. Maybe there will be huge tailbacks at all of those too this time?

        Another own goal, eh, Edwards?

        • Edward2
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

          Stack was caused by stroppy miltant French trade unionists.
          Whilst we were in the EU.
          Now who you blaming?

        • libertarian
          Posted August 21, 2019 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

          Martin in Cardiff

          Operation Stack has been in place for 25 years ( We have been in the EU all that time) . It has been invoked many times and so far in 2019 It was invoked in March due to adverse weather conditions in the channel. The worst was 2015 when the port was closed for 35 days due to French industrial action followed by illegal immigrants entering the tunnel and then more French industrial action

          I was a panel member on a local TV programme about it, KCC, Highways England and the Cameron Government all washed their hands of it and said, its not a big deal.

          The port of Dover is the 10th busiest port in the UK and 6% of import/export tonnage goes through the port .

          Dover is a RoRo port , most goods are LoLo, bulk cargo or liquid tanker

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:58 am | Permalink

      Martin – I have responded to your post at 12.47 under the topic Time to Boost the Economy. Hopefully our kind host is minded to publish it.

      I’ve just finished a 60 hr week.

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 2:09 am | Permalink

        PS, I’m inclined to agree with your comment above. Things are going to be very tough. I always knew that and Leave did not tell us.

        At first I did think this a problem. An error (call it a lie if you will.)

        Since the referendum the public have had three years of BBC/Remain information about the dire consequences of Brexit to ‘inform’ the public.

        They are now *informed*.

        The last reliable poll was the EU elections in which around 85% clearly did not vote to stop Brexit and the one single-issue party that did stand for it *crashed out* and was disbanded.

        • Newmania
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

          I agree that given the emerging horror show it is a quite remarkable how steady the polls have been.
          There is still considerable support for No Deal Brexit albeit comfortably behind the wish to remain and further behind the realisation that the referendum was a mistake.
          I`d say the EU elections broadly reflected this although is hard to tell exactly – I am confident that a further referendum would be worn by remain personally but who knows , perhaps you are right.
          In my view , when you wish to risk other people`s jobs the future of the country and make our children pay for it it is not unreasonable that there should be no doubt that we have not , as you kindly admit, been sold a pack of lies with which we are now stuck.

          • NickC
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

            Newmania, Can you justify ignoring the 2016 Referendum, but implementing “further” referendums? On what basis? The reality is our democracy cannot survive where the losers pick and choose which votes they will accept.

            There is no “horror show” except in the minds of Remains. And in my view a re-run of the 2016 Referendum would still result in a Leave win, especially given the vindictive and insolent behaviour of the EU in the last 3 years.

        • Jiminyjim
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

          There is, let’s face it, only one root cause for there being any problems whatsoever after 31 October – if the EU decides to act in a vindictive way towards a country and a government that wants to have a more ‘normal’ relationship with them, and which is not prepared to submit to their unlimited demands for cash and subservience
          And if that did happen, what the Remainers on this site really need to answer is why they would want to be a colony of a beaurocracy that behaves in a such a vindictive way.

          • Ken Smith
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

            In other words the UK leaves, then is amazed to find the rules change. Typical brexiter refusal to accept responsibility

          • Edward2
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

            Well that isn’t correct Ken
            There are rules for EU nations trading with each other.
            There are rules for non EU nations trading with the EU
            There are rules for non EU nations trading with each other.
            If you import and export you naturally follow those different rules.
            We’ve been doing it for decades.

          • Jiminyjim
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

            So Ken Smith, your beloved EU would be prepared to starve our people and deprive our sick people of vital medicines? Says it all, really. But the astonishing thing, KS, is that you would still support them! Watch the impact, though, on the average citizen and weep at how your ‘enlightened’ beaurocracy has been unable to resist its instinctive response to punish those who want to break free of serfdom and victimise those who simply want to govern themselves. Your comments, KS, sum up why you remainers have lost all connection with reality and common sense

    • steve
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      Martin in Cardiff

      “Why should an exception be made, just for this minority’s obsession with doctrinal purity?”

      A question I think the remain minority should answer.

  3. Dave Andrews
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

    Wasn’t Michael Gove supposed to be actively countering these scare stories?
    Well if there is the risk of hold-ups on the way to Dover, wouldn’t it be an idea for the government to warn ferry companies from RoI to UK mainland them may have to hold Irish freight bound for the continent in Irish ports? – Until everyone is confident that the risk of queues has dissipated that is. After all, it’s no good them coming over here only to add to a massive queue.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

      It should certainly be in contingency plans.

    • L Jones
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

      But why should there be queues?

      • Julie Williams
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

        I have been prevented from getting the ferry at St Malo by a handful of yellow jackets and held up by passport control at Le Havre (after a terrorist incident, but that’s not down to our imports) scrutinizing every vehicle until they got bored and waved the rest through.
        I’d put money on the French getting up to similar antic to either get more money from their government or get their way, we all remember port is being threat end and their contents being burnt alive) whilst we were members of the EU.
        Should this stop us or should it remind us that the unity and good fellowship of the EU is a facade for a very different reality.
        Things will settle down, whilst Britons supermarket spokesmen whinge, Aldi and Lidl keep opening branches: they can’t be anticipating empty shelves!

        • Julie Williams
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

          Sneaky spellchecker :lorries and threatened.

    • Richard
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

      The GB land bridge saves Irish trade c24 hours: http://www.politico.eu/article/cargo-food-production-producers-brexit-burns-irelands-british-bridge-to-eu-markets/

      In the long term, Irish freight’s greater use of Liverpool 2 integrated rail & container terminal would help to ease congestion & wear on the busy M6-M40-M25.

  4. rose
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    I am not worried about Brexit but I am worried about the danger of Project Fear as so many gullible people have been taken in. I fear they are stockpiling pills, for example, in response to the fearmongers, and that is causing problems. It is surely not unkind to understand that some people may prefer to cause chaos by hook or by crook, if it means they can say they were right. Hammond springs to mind here.

    • Pominoz
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

      Rose,

      I fear you are correct. Whilst many can see the fearmongering for what it is, there are many, possibly more elderly who depend on a reliable and constant regime of drugs who are absolutely panic-stricken. I know this from phone contact yesterday with a (normally very sensible) relative who was asking if there was any way his drugs could be obtained by us here in Australia and mailed to him, should his supply be disrupted.

      Naturally we reassured him that the disruption was not going to happen, but it is absolutely scandalous that these self-interested, know better, remainer scum are prepared to cause such distress to the most vulnerable.

      • Helen Smith
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

        I agree, it is abhorrent, Remainers promulgating these scare stories are vile.

  5. Newmania
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

    Operation yellowhammer was presented to the governments No Deal Team only 3 weeks ago. If you have information that is more current than that , tell us .
    The UK and France are both part of the EU Single Market Hence there is no excise duty on goods crossing the border( except fuel ?). VAT is not charged on exported goods at the border and I have no idea what you are on about when you mention currency.(Does this mean anything at all ?)
    Tariffs will be applied as they are to all third countries and under WTO the UK must apply uniform, tariffs on all imports
    No worries its a million to one eh.
    On the plus side I suspect the Scots will take one look at what a hard border with a third country looks like and decide Independence is a dead duck

    • Edward2
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      Same old Project Fear just rehashed and given an exciting new name.

    • Richard1
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

      Your last point is correct. Clean Brexit probably makes Scottish separatism less likely, although I see very little chance of any kind of ‘hard border’ in Ireland. By contrast, the more the EU harmonises and centralises, in the event of either Remain or Brino, the stronger the argument for Scottish separatists just to say we may as well have our own seat at the table in the EU, many laws and regs are made there anyway.

      • Newmania
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

        All my points are correct
        The issue of Scottish Independence would have been quiet had we not go the referendum wrong.
        In the context of that mistake ,I am only saying that the idea of a hard third country border is even worse than being dragged out of the EU for the Scots given the amount of integration and size of UK trade.

        • Richard1
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

          The Scottish separatists have been arguing for separatism since long before independence. they were agitating for another referendum before the EU one. they would most assuredly still be doing it had the EU one gone the other way – probably using the argumentation I suggest above!

        • Edward2
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

          Still no majority for Scottish independence

        • Fedupsoutherner
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

          Scotland wanted another referendum as soon as the nationalists lost the first one. I know, I was unfortunate enough to live there at the time. It has nothing to do with Brexit but it makes a nice excuse.

    • steve
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

      Newmania

      “On the plus side I suspect the Scots will take one look at what a hard border with a third country looks like and decide Independence is a dead duck”

      Also the facts that Scots get advantages courtesy of us for no other reason than they’re Scots, England has HMRC and many other utility offices in Scotland, then there’s the dockyards…..oh and almost forgot they don’t have their own currency.

      So if they do want independence then all those facilities will have to be relocated, and Ms Sturgeon will have to go begging to the EU.

      I’d bet they won’t even like the Euro, let alone being in vassalage to a foreign power that really will control every aspect of their lives. Then they can bleat on to the EU instead for the next 300 years. And they think we English toories are big bad overlords.

      Hadrian’s wall will have to be fortified to prevent the re emergence of the reivers.

      However, I’d absolutely split my sides if they go independent and the EU gives them a big fat ‘NON’

      Personally I think the next indyref should include a vote for the entire UK, since it’s a UK matter. Ms Sturgeon might well be in for the shock of her life, i.e ‘off you go, ta ta’

    • dixie
      Posted August 20, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

      Isn’t “YellowHammer” the name given by the Treasury to the extant cross departmental contingency planning which had been going on for some time – inews reported on it in March, 5 months ago.

      The UK can vary tariffs, the WTO schedule sets a maximum.

      So you are only partially correct

  6. bill brown
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

    Sir JR,

    The issue if any is not our imports but our exports and how they will be treated subsequently in the Eu and neither you nor I know about this at this stage. Trade will of course continue but will there be barriers to our biggest export markets?

    • Helena
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

      On the contrary bill, we do know. Without a deal, our exports will be treated as third country imports by the EU – that is what the WTO requires. That means tariffs, health and safety checks on all agricultural produce, checks for conformity with standards for all manufactured goods, it means UK licences and qualifications no longer recognised, etc. This is Project Reality.

      • Edward2
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:11 am | Permalink

        Helena,
        it is obvious you haven’t exported goods to other nations or brought goods into this country from abroad.
        The checks you describe are currently carried out when we sell to non EU nations and when goods arrive here from non EU nations..
        Do you see huge queues currently with goods arriving from non EU nations here in the UK?
        Do you see huge queues at non EU nations ports of entry when our exported goods arrive there?
        No you do not.
        Nearly all checks are done before goods depart in the form of declarations of product conformity.
        Taxes and tariffs are calculated and added to the invoice and paid by the parties involved.
        There are some random checks at ports of entry but it is a small percentage and trusted traders are usually not involved.

        • libertarian
          Posted August 22, 2019 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

          Helena

          Edward2 is absolutely correct , less than 3% of non EU goods are inspected and of that 3% , Customs tell us that 97% take less than 12 minutes .

          As UK licences and qualifications already qualify I think you’ll find you are wrong Helena ( no change there)

          You might want to google HMRC CHIEF & NES systems or if you prefer the French G.U. N system to find out how goods are actually imported/exported

      • Woody
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

        As the eu will charge tariffs on imports then so shall we, and as the eu exports more to the uk than we do to them our tariff trade balance will be positive, and add the VAT to it and we will be thriving. Plus we don’t have to pay 20 billion a year for this so called tariff free trade arrangement … more than we would have to pay in tariffs. Win win. Plus of course there are plenty of nations willing to trade with us out there … and WTO terms are suitable and trade deals can be negotiated … far quicker on a one to one basis than the bureaucratic self serving 27 … especially when led by the nose by two of them.

        • Know-Dice
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

          And factor in the 80% of CET that currently gets paid to the EU (£4 Billion per yearish) it’s a win-win..

      • Know-Dice
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

        WTO is “risk based” so, if what you export today is acceptable why would that be any different tomorrow?

        Unless you are the EU and you wish to “punish” a member that leaves…

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

        This is reasonable. But what’s being threatened is actually much worse than being treated like China etc. And not recognising our mutual standards from day one would be a vindictive act

      • BillM
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:45 am | Permalink

        And that would apply to all 27 of the EU members, of course. We import far more from them than we export Figures around £350B v £270B. So what is sauce for the Goose in definitely sauce for the Gander but who has the most to lose here?
        Bear in mind that EU members are bound by protectionist EU rules but Free UK can do their own thing with the Rest of the World. It is an exciting prospect for our country so go with the flow.

        • Terry
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

          The UK has most to lose – 45% of its export trade goes to the EU, only 6% of the EU’s goes to the UK. No deal Brexit is lose lose, but the EU will be hurt whereas the UK will be ripped to shreds

          • Know-Dice
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

            Are percentages relavent?

            That 6% is Germany, France, Netherlands, Italy, Spain all of which will loose more jobs than the UK

            And the UK is currently 34% and falling

          • Jiminyjim
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

            96% of our total GDP is outside the EU and the EU has a £95bn deficit with us. We can cope, as long as we’re prepared to retaliate if the EU decides to be vindictive. I’m afraid that they are vindictive by nature

          • libertarian
            Posted August 22, 2019 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

            Terry

            WRONG

            The value of UK exports to the EU is £289 billion the value of EU imports to the UK is £345 billion

            You are obviously fooled by numbers

      • NickC
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 11:41 am | Permalink

        Helena, Checks for conformity are normally carried out by the seller nowadays, not the buyer. Those conformity checks are carried out now, whilst we are in the EU. They have to be, otherwise the seller could not sell the products in the first place.

        Product conformity is first designed in, then manufactured in. It is not magic. UK products don’t magically conform at this moment, then magically don’t conform a month later. So providing conforming products will be no different after we leave.

        Helena, you simply demonstrate that you understand neither modern manufacturing, nor business.

        • Ken Smith
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

          So your plan is to arrive at Calais and say “these goods were not made in the EU but trust me, theyre fine”. How do you rate your chances?

          • Robert mcdonald
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

            No, the computer system will confirm that .. computers are fast .. and unbiased.

          • sm
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

            Ken, I’m sort of guessing that with international trade nowadays, you don’t just turn up with a cart load of goodies on the off-chance that someone might be willing to buy a goat or a computer from you.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

            Oh Ken you are showing your lack of trafing experience.
            Exporting and importing doesn’t work like that.
            Compliance and CE marking issues are sorted before you arrive.

          • libertarian
            Posted August 22, 2019 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

            What is it with remainers who believe that in the 21st century you just turn up at a border point with a truck full of stuff a handful of forms and say have a look and if youre happy let me in.

            It hilarious how much and how many people claiming to have a superior intellect than leave voters and wishing to stay in a trading block that they dont have the remotest clue how it works , make themselves look totally imbecilic

      • Richard1
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

        98% of goods landed in the UK from countries with which we trade under WTO terms (and inc some with which we have FTAs through the EU, to be novated to the UK) do not have the inspections you mention. could i suggest a bit of research before posting?

        • Henry Jailer
          Posted August 20, 2019 at 5:03 am | Permalink

          We don’t trade with any countries under WTO terms, so i think it is you that should be doing some research

          • Edward2
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 7:37 am | Permalink

            Henry
            Over 90% of world trade is conducted under WTO rules.

          • Richard1
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

            sophistry. of course there are numerous facilitating agreements, but we trade with many countries without an FTA – the US for instance

          • NickC
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 10:52 am | Permalink

            Henry Jailer, Bi-lateral trade treaties modify the rules of the nations that participate in them, they do not modify WTO rules. So, except for the few small nations not in the WTO, all our (non-domestic) trade is conducted under WTO rules.

          • dixie
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

            The EU itself trades under WTO rules and even uses the WTO dispute resolution mechanisms.

      • steve
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        Bill Brown / Helena

        It’s a foregone conclusion the French will kick off, as they always do when they can’t get their own way.

        Likely they’ll be setting fire to our livestock exports, smashing and looting lorries etc.

        Some of us have long memories.

  7. Alan Jutson
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    Just viewed Mr Grieve giving his views on the News, he was lapping it up, what a pathetic Member of Parliament he is in wanting the UK to fail and the EU to succeed.

    Problem we have as a Country is that we have too many of these weasel type politicians supposedly representing us in Parliament.

    A simply disgusting spectacle, I hope he and his like are all deselected soon.

    • L Jones
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

      You’re right, Mr Jutson. It is a disgusting spectacle. Do you think these people know how they are viewed generally? Or don’t they care? Don’t they have any self-awareness, or, if they do, do they believe what their minions tell them?
      It seems to be a lack of self respect on their part, coupled with overweening arrogance – what a combination.

    • Bob
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:16 am | Permalink

      Maybe he’s hoping for another medal?

  8. Ian!
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

    As a MSM soundbite from the remainers, it will have had the desired impact on the uninformed, can I say not to bright people out there who are its target.

    Everything in this paper has previously been showed to be false by those on both sides of the channel by the very people that are actually involved in supplying the goods and services.

    It is on the same level of those calling not to leave without a deal. What deal? Bizarrely these advocates of a deal have spent 2 years in not achieving any sort of deal.

    • L Jones
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

      You’re right, Ian! The gullible target audience for this tosh is already convinced that they’re all doomed and going to hell in a handcart, and they are the ones who will begin stockpiling and panicking generally.
      The rest of us will carry on as normal, adjusting if, when and where necessary.

      The more I read of different Brexit points of view, the more it seems that back in 2016 many Leavers did a lot of research and study about the pros and cons of EU membership, to inform themselves of the consequences of remaining or leaving. The Remainers, on the other hand, were voting blindly for the (non existent) status quo, which they didn’t seem to understand anyway. I have many Remainer friends (businessmen and women mainly) who changed their minds once the true colours of the EU were shown, having taken its existence for granted up to then.
      But then, they are the better-educated ones.

      • Dan R
        Posted August 20, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

        L Jones, you’re point on Leavers should be extended, as my self and many others voted for a shake up of the political landscape as well as to just leave the EU. I’m sure a good proportion knew and expected some strain in pulling ourselves away.

    • bill brown
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      Ian

      there is correctly no deal the is a document of intent, which is to be negotiated over the next two years, but you probably knew that already

  9. Simon Coleman
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

    You’re saying that there won’t be any disruption at all – correct? Gove has said there will be ‘bumps in the road’ (but he doesn’t know how big) and all the leaked reports over some period of time have indicated possible major disruption. Are you pleased that some small to medium sized businesses have already spent up to a million pounds in No deal preparations?

    • tim
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

      LISTEN to the most powerfull man in the wolrld. Donald Trump said after the brexit result. “it wont make jack shit difference” in response to project fear.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

      Nobody can defend May winding people and businesses up and then letting them down. Money spent in preparation for broadening supplier and customer bases beyond the EU is unlikely to be wasted.

    • NickC
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 11:52 am | Permalink

      Simon Coleman said: “You’re saying that there won’t be any disruption at all – correct?”

      Incorrect. There is often disruption when new systems are started, simply because they are new. But new systems are installed frequently, as updates occur and regulations change – whether the UK is in, or out, of the EU.

      Will the disruptions be on the scale predicted by many Remains? Not according to the people in charge of the ports on both sides of the channel.

    • libertarian
      Posted August 22, 2019 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

      Simon Coleman

      Name a SMALL business that has spent £1 million preparing for no deal . Go on just one

      I want you to tell me exactly what this disruption might be , I’m an exporter and I need to know

  10. Denis Cooper
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

    JR, I am now close to despair at the refusal of the government to fight its corner. There is a continuing propaganda war, and we are losing it badly, and it seems that Boris Johnson and Michael Gove just do not care. Do they really want us to leave the EU, or not? We knew the answer to that question for Theresa May – it gradually became apparent as time passed – but we should not now be asking the same question about Boris Johnson.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

      I think Johnson & Co know that the country wants this settled. Arguing over the battle losses being high/low is irrelevant when you just need to win. I think the focus is there.

      • Hope
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

        Dennis,

        You are correct to an extent. But in fairness to Johnson he has now bypassed the shit BBC and Sky and gone direct to the public in YouTube and he did make the point about remainers.

        Like me, you might think he would go a stage further for the likes of Greive, Bebb, Hammond, Gauke etc. But he is trying to show he wants to unite his party. It would be best to get rid of the extreme remainers in his party but that might come before the next general election now that the dreadful Lewis has gone and his mate Cleverly is there.

        The coward and Traitor who leaked the U.K. confidential paper to scupper the country getting a good deal to leave the EU ought to be found and prosecuted with no stone left unturned. As for Grieve it would be better for all concerned if he stayed in his home in France to be near his French mother.

    • miami.mode
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

      Problem is, Denis, if either of them gives some sort of definitive answer that certain things will run smoothly and then there is the slightest hiccup, they will be torn to shreds by the usual antagonistic interviewers.

      Invidious position for both of them.

    • sm
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:05 am | Permalink

      According to a report I read today (Monday), the PR campaign was intended to begin next month, when the majority of the population are home from holiday.

      Seems an old-fashioned view of the world (who, unless subject to academic schedules, goes away in August?), and forgets that modern technology actually allows people to read the news even when they’re away from home!!!!!

    • Bob
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:24 am | Permalink

      “Do they really want us to leave the EU, or not?”

      I suspect that the govt are working flat out on a new version of the Merkel/May Surrender Treaty. This is how the EU works.remember the EU Constitution which was resurrected with some minor amendments and re-designated as “The Lisbon Treaty”?

      • NickC
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 11:58 am | Permalink

        Bob, Yes. Without assurances otherwise, it does look like we will get a last minute revision of the Robbins/Verhofstadt/May/Merkel dWA surrender treaty. It might be slightly better than the dWA, but it won’t see the UK free of EU control, so it won’t be Leave.

  11. halfway
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    Is that a fact? then the leaked report today is all misinformation or worse- If the report is all Project Fear then surely the public will see it – so why the secrecy? it should be published straight away for all to see so we can have a good laugh at the ‘nonsense’

    Both Dover and Calais port managements with the best intentions are ready for smooth working you say, correct, but has anyone stopped to check with the Calais Customs or Immigration? what about Port Health, Quarantine and Depts of Agriculture? presumably all of these groups will continue to work in great harmony together to give us continued smooth working- d’ya think?

    As for Rotterdam and Antwerp, Netherlands and Belgium, here we’re talking largely about containerisation which won’t be RoRo JIT trade – and then as regards our home ports we can be quite sure more government and port officialdom will eventually get in the way here as well- it won’t be all about HMRC- so you still think old leaks recycled- indeed

  12. Hope
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    This from a civil service caught on camera dishonestly stating how it intends to hide true costs and ties from the public!

    Remainers have shown by this leak they do not want the UK to get a good deal or leave the EU. A big shot in the traitorous foot. It also supports and gives credence to what Johnson said the other day about former ministers and MPs collaborating with the EU. Traitor does not begin to describe thierbaction while taking the Queens shilling!

    • margaret howard
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

      Hope

      Soldiers take the Queens shilling, not politicians.

      • NickC
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

        Margaret Howard, If you simply want to be pedantic, then soldiers do not “take the Queen’s shilling” any more either. Government policy on membership of the EU was decided by the people. The Referendum vote was for the UK to leave the EU treaties. Government employees actively blocking Brexit, and collaborating with a foreign power to do so, are therefore engaging in treason.

    • Garland
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

      Typical Brexiter – whatever goes wrong, blame someone else

      • Edward2
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

        What has actually gone wrong?
        It is just a Project Fear prediction.

      • Woody
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

        Typical remoaner, whatever goes wrong blame the leave process. It’s called project fear and it’s failing.

        • bill brown
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:48 am | Permalink

          Woody,

          The fear game is being played on both sides and neither side is doing very well

          • NickC
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

            Bill Brown, What project fear is the Leave side engaging in?

          • Robert mcdonald
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

            The only fear expressed by the leave supporters is the danger to our democracy resulting from certain bigots disregarding a parliamentary approved democratic decision.

          • dixie
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

            As far as I am aware all the fear mongering is coming from remainers. Or do you have any specific evidence to the contrary Hans?

      • david price
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

        Yet all your buddies in Parliament, the HoL, media, civil service, CBI etc have been so persistently anti-UK and pro-EU that if things do not go well once we leave then they will be blamed for good reason based on their declared interests.
        The only way they can avoid any negative consequences is to demonstrate beyond doubt they have tried their best to support our interests against the inevitable spitefulness of the EU.

  13. Richard1
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    I confess to some apprehension and misgivings. However, If we do crash out over the cliff edge and nothing much noticeable happens, that in itself will be a massive confidence boost. It will be a 364 economists moment – a realisation that the bulk of bien pensant opinion can actually be wrong. The Thatcher Govt really took off once this became clear in the early 80s.

  14. Ferdia
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    I see on the news that Boris is to tell the EU leaders to renegotiate a new deal with him – He’s going to tell them- well good luck with that. Am sure mrs Merkel and Macron will be suitably impressed to give him quick response considering they are both being dragged away from their hols- can’t hardly wait for the next episode- its better than any of the soaps

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

      This was dragged out over last summer by stupid May. I think Johnson has no wish to drag anything out but the poor guy was left 10 metres behind the starting line because of May’s stupidity. She made the country look stupid and a supplicant, and now BJ & Co. has to tell Micron and Mackrel how it is. They have made an excellent start.

    • david price
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:23 am | Permalink

      perhaps if Merkel, Macron and co had spent the preceding 2 years leading and ensuring constructive negotiations with the UK for mutual interest they might have got a more beneficial outcome.

      Even if our governments do reach a mutually acceptable outcome it guarantees nothing, I certainly won’t be changing my buying habits just because France and Germany are suddenly all smiles. I would certainly question any public sector purchase of EU goods and services or project/programme cooperation

  15. Oggy
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    There is only a few weeks to go to Independence Day and the remainers are now desperate to stop us leaving the EU by any means, so we are going to be deluged with more of this nonsense until we have left then they can all get back in their boxes.

    I see Corbyn wants to recall Parliament to debate Brexit, what on earth have they been doing for the last 3 years ? They don’t want to debate it they want to stop it, well the time for debate is over it’s now time to leave.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

      Oggy, correct!! I see the BBC is going to concentrate their ‘news’ next week on farming. No doubt it will all be doom and gloom. As if there aren’t enough farmers in normal times committing suicide. The BBC is sure to make matters worse. I don’t honestly think I have heard one positive statement from them about Brexit. They are a disgrace.

      • Doug Powell
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

        Yes, what will the BBC do for programme content once Brexit has happened? From dawn ’til dusk it peddles Project Fear content on TV and radio!

        Many of us have said it many times, but it bears repeating – remove the Licence Fee tax!

        • NickC
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

          Doug Powell, Don’t pay the BBC TV Tax. Then you benefit from the money saved, and from not hearing BBC pro-Remain propaganda.

          • bill brown
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 9:04 am | Permalink

            Nick C

            Send me your e mail I have four pages of Brexit nonsense

          • NickC
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 10:57 am | Permalink

            Bill Brown, Most of the planet’s nations is not in the EU. Is it “nonsense” for those 168 states? And if it isn’t nonsense for them, why is it nonsense for the UK?

          • libertarian
            Posted August 23, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

            hans

            We get enough Brexit nonsense from simpletons with no understanding off international trade without you adding to it. As a business consultant your crediblity is shot to pieces

  16. Fred H
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

    Is this a leak of Ministerial papers, or otherwise covered by Official Secrets act? If so an inquiry should be held and the guilty sacked with loss of Civil Service pension if applicable.

    It doesn’t matter that it appears to be the same old Fear nonsense, a leak is a leak and should be a sackable offence.

  17. gregory martin
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    So much nonsense repeated without foundation. Too much emphasise on Dover, as if it was the only port of entry. We are an island with many deep water ports to choose from.
    Simple changes to sailing patterns, the use of the Solent Gateway at Marchwood to handle Rotterdam divert traffic for UK destinations, as if it was a military operation. Link to Marchwood to West Midlands and the North on prioritised Freightliners to avoid road congestion. Clear passenger traffic from the Eurotunnel ,run Freightliner trains with containers and trailer units to close seperation patterns under military signalling/communications.
    Suppliment existing airfreight with the use of RAF /USAF transports for drugs and medicines. You might be surprised how many Metformin tablets could be carried in 40 gallon plastic drums in a A400M , Antonov or Galaxy C5

  18. Lifelogic
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

    Exactly but the forces for remain (the BBC, 90% of the civil service, academia, the legal profession, most charities, many larger multinational businesses, 70% of the commons and 80% of the Lords and 100% of the bollocks to Brexit Bercow) and very powerful. Totally wrong but in positions of power. They need to be expunged.

    • margaret howard
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic

      So 16m Remain voters (against 17m Leave), and all the other top of the ladder people and organisations incl parliament you mention are all totally wrong?

      Seeing that 70% of voters whose educational attainment is only GCSE or lower voted to Leave, while 68% of voters with a university degree voted to Remain you obviously don’t believe that the more intelligent or better educated sections of society should be in charge?

      Would you prefer the dustman to give you a heart transplant?

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

        Oh dear Margaret.

        The educated verses the non educated argument.

        Have you ever run your own business and employed people, if you have you may find out that all the degrees in the world are no substitute for good old common-sense, experience and work ethic.

        What a very, very silly comment you have posted.

        • Alan Jutson
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

          Margaret

          Interesting you have some exact percentages, I wonder where they came from, given a referendum, like an election, is a secret ballot.

          Or was it an “educated guess” ?

          • Doug Powell
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

            Alan, more like an ignorant guess!

          • sm
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

            There was some research done after the Referendum, and it was assessed that overall, the older you got the more likely you were to have voted Leave, and that more Remain younger people had been to University, hence the sneering at pensioners and ‘the ignorant’.

            What is rarely taken into account is that a) the older you are, the greater the experience you have of living within the EEC/EU, and b) that the percentage of the population going to University has considerably increased over the last 20 years (whether that’s actually led to more truly educated people is a different topic!).

        • rose
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

          Quite right, besides which, all the cleverest people I know, and know of, are Brexiteers. A good example is Sir John.

        • margaret howard
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

          Alan

          “you may find out that all the degrees in the world are no substitute for good old common-sense, experience and work ethic”

          Well I don’t know about you Alan but I prefer my doctor, surgeon, solicitor, lecturer, teacher etc, in fact all the professionals I have to deal with, to have had a proper education and a university degree before they are let loose on the public.

          As I mentioned above I wouldn’t like my dustman to give me a heart transplant.

          • Jiminyjim
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

            You demonstrate your own understanding of the issue every time you open your mouth MH. Yes, every single time. You even outdo your friend Andy

      • Edward2
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:18 am | Permalink

        Silly analogy.
        This report is just another Project Fear 2.0 prediction.
        Remember the failed predictions of Project Fear 1.0?

        • James1
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

          Margaret,
          You are confusing intelligence with education. They are not the same. It seems that some people have to be very highly educated in order to come out with over intellectualised utter nonsense.

      • IanT
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

        Margaret, many years ago (about 50) I was the only non-graduate on a “Graduate Entry” course into the then ‘new’ computer industry. The other eleven chaps were all straight from University and pleasant enough guys but for all their education didn’t shine in their ability to actually get things done. Three years later I was a regional support engineer and (as far as I know) all of my graduate colleagues had left for less demanding/challenging jobs (e.g. they liked the pay but not the hours).

        So I always tell folk that a Degree might get you the job but it will not necessarily keep it – you have to be able to earn your keep. Your post suggesting that anyone with a degree has more intelligence and knowledge than those who don’t is not only laughable but also demonstrates why a lot of folk from my generation think our education system is seriously broken. Younger members of my family (nieces/nephews) all have degrees but their knowledge of the real world is often laughably simplistic and consists of soundbites rather than well founded facts.

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        Well the 70% are important as you are now finding out.

        Please stand for politics on a ticket which says “I intend to disenfranchise anyone not up to degree standard of education.”

        This without mention of the fact that most graduates these days are not up to ‘A’ level standard in old money. I know so-called graduates who cannot spell or even speak properly but think they are stuck in bar jobs because they are over qualified.

      • Fred H
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        MH – – you have excelled yourself. For you it is such an easy step from idiotic to downright absurd.

      • Pud
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:01 am | Permalink

        Margaret, Remainers like to tell us that the old people voted Leave and the young voted Remain. I believe you have made that point in previous posts. When I got my BSc less than 10% of A level students went to university, now it’s close to 50%, so there is a clear correlation between age and highest qualification.

        Regarding heart operations, a professor of astrophysics is highly qualified but I wouldn’t let one perform surgery on me.

        • julie williams
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

          Apparently it is possible to get an “A” pass at “A” level maths with a mark of 54%.
          What?

      • David Maples
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

        Margaret Howard.
        Are you seriously arguing that those ‘graduates’ with Mickey Mouse arts degrees are entitled to regard themselves as educated? Most have not read anything by way of serious study, in political economy, history, classics, science, or maths. They are for the most part, half educated monoglots who wouldn’t know the difference between a demand curve and a supply curve in a million years! Let’s face it, Brussels in 2019 compares favourably with Moscow in 1939, only with kid gloves on! I’m amazed people like you want to be part of such a totalitarian horror show.

      • David Taylor
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

        Margaret Howard .
        Education is not a reliable indicator of intelligence or common sense

        The EU is a busted flush , its good points qualified ease of trading are negated by the drive for political power shrouded by the phrase “ever closer union”

      • Bob
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

        Academics eh!

        Some of them couldn’t change a light bulb.

        • Fred H
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

          many with the highest quals you wouldn’t trust to go and buy a newspaper.

      • Bob
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:54 am | Permalink

        “top of the ladder people”

        The people you wish to denigrate spend more time at the top of ladders than you ever did Margaret. The dustmen, carpenters, electricians, plumbers, bricklayers and plasterers who have seen their standards of living reduced because they can’t afford to buy a home because of the influx of cheap labour pushing up rents and pushing down wages? And you think your vote is worth less than yours? Shame on you.

        • margaret howard
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

          Bob

          “they can’t afford to buy a home because of the influx of cheap labour pushing up rents”

          Not that old chestnut again. The reason this generation can’t afford to buy a home is because the previous (my) generation bought and then sold their houses because they regarded them as an investment rather than a place to live. So a house worth about £3 000 in say, 1960 is now selling for over £300 000! Madness but nothing to do with outsiders moving it.

          And incidentally if you buy a house to don’t pay rent.

          • Jiminyjim
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

            Absolutely nothing to do with an increase in population of over 10 million in 50 years then Margaret? And the average increase now 300k per year? Maths and logic not exactly your strong points, are they, MH? What was that you said about intelligence?

      • NickC
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

        Margaret Howard, Older people tended to vote Leave. Younger people tended to vote Remain. That is fairly well established by polls such as YouGov’s research.

        There is absolutely no evidence to suggest your statement that older people are less intelligent than younger people is true. In fact, rather worryingly, indications are the reverse. And the only reason that older people have fewer degrees, pro rata, is not lack of intelligence, but lack of opportunity.

        So, Margaret, you are peddling an entirely fake trope. And since the above facts are freely available, and you have been told them before, either you are xxxxxxxx All the things you accuse Leaves of being. So it’s projection.

        • Doug Powell
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

          Nick,
          What I can’t understand about these supposed super intelligent people, who can’t stand the inferior ignorant majority of leavers in this country – Is why they don’t go forth and take up residence in one of the 27 EU states flowing with milk, and honey and populated by super intelligent beings?
          That would seem the intelligent, educated thing to do! But then, perhaps they are not so smart or educated after all!

        • Terry
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

          The really old – those that lived through WW2 – voted Remain by a huge majority

          • Pud
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

            Anyone who was alive at the end of WW2 would have been at least 71 at the time of the referendum. YouGov’s breakdown of who voted what in the referendum lists 65+ as voting 64% for Leave. Either this result has been skewed by a very high number of 65 to 71 year olds voting Leave, or you are wrong re: people who lived though WW2.

        • Fred H
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

          could it be that with 40+ years experience of the EU, us older folk know a crock of shit when we see it? You younger ones just keep buying the propaganda. Interestingly when in our family we agreed we would be open about how we voted, our 3 kids + spouses in the mid-late forties said they voted Leave, and most of their friends said they did too… I think all have degrees incl Firsts and Cambridge. More than half live/work in London ! So much for all being a bit dim…

        • bill brown
          Posted August 20, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

          Nick C

          You asked me to send you a list so I offered it, that is all?

      • Kevin Lohse
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

        You’ve obviously never come across the consent of effective intelligence. Those fortunate enough to have completed 3 years socially- acceptable unemployment, picking up a lifetime of debt and a qualification that fits them for nothing productive, may well have a greater potential than their less- privileged elders, but clearly lack the ability to apply their qualities to solving the problems of everyday life. Those who have been wrestling with life’s problems on a daily basis for a few decades on the other hand have a proven effectiveness in applying themselves to problem solving. It shows in that Brexiteers have a variety of reasons for exiting the EU, whereas Remainers have to quote from the latest hive-mind meme, often without understanding the implications. A little bit of humility from the over- qualified, realising that experience plays its part, would do wonders for their understanding of the world.

      • Fairweather
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

        Margaret- have you read the Lisbon Treaty and the 5 presidents report?

      • Doug Powell
        Posted August 20, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

        By the nature of their work, dustmen do far more for the maintenance of good public health, than all the qualified medical personnel put together. Those who can remember the dustmen’s strike will attest to this – rotting, rat infested rubbish, stinking to high heaven, piled high in streets!

        Also, don’t be so disparaging to fellow human beings, who by circumstances of birth or natural ability may be less fortunate that yourself! You, me, all of us, must not judge people by race, colour, religion, politics or occupation. There are good and bad in all of the above. We have to judge people as individuals!

    • Andy
      Posted August 18, 2019 at 10:38 pm | Permalink

      You do know they are totally wrong. That is just your opinion.

      They may be totally right. In which case you will not end up looking very bright.

      • agricola
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:13 am | Permalink

        Brighter than your star matey. Those that would flaunt democracy to remain have a vested interest in doing so, and all too often it is money.

      • Edward2
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

        You ended up looking none too bright yourself Andy when the predictions of Project Fear 1.0 never happened.

        • Newmania
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

          That is not true , emergency action was taken both by the B of E precisely because every indicator pointed to a recession .
          The government had to drop the target of reducing National debt to an acceptable level and allowing it to go on rising.

          I just can`t see how you can possibly still understand this so little

          • Edward2
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

            What you are demonstrating NM is that simple positive actions can be taken to stop all the negative predictions should they be needed.
            Thanks for that.

          • NickC
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

            Newmania, You have shot yourself in the foot. If the difference between the Remain predicted recession, and the actual outcome of near 2% growth, was achieved with only minor adjustments to the bank rate and the deficit targets, then the Leave vote could not have been economically significant either. Contrary to the original Remain Project Fear 1.0 assertions.

  19. Gary C
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    Ah the perfidious doom mongers are at it again . . . . . . . . . . . . Yawn!

  20. Kathleen P
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    This document sounds as if it was prepared some time ago under Theresa May’s tenure and leaked by one of her remainer ex-ministers. Now I wonder who that could be? So many to choose from. But there is one in particular who is ramping up the rhetoric at the moment and getting as much publicity as he can muster from a sympathetic and willing media. He has left no one in any doubt that he was behind the failure to plan adequately for no deal because he was in charge of the purse strings. He never wanted Brexit so departments were starved of cash to adequately plan. He and his cohorts are sabotaging Boris’s Government because they can see that he has every prospect of succeeding in taking us out on 31 October deal or no deal.
    It should not have taken Gove so long to robustly refute the paper and to say it is out of date and that things have moved on considerably since it was written. Too slow out of the stalls by far.

  21. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

    You haven’t taken account of the fact that on November 1 the EU has ordered the sun not to rise in the absence of a signed WA. The UK will be cast into darkness which will only be relieved by the EU once we have buckled to their whim.

    There are only two possible reasons that goods and services cannot flow as freely on November 1 2019 as they did on November 1 2018. One would be some unpredicted natural catastrophe, the other would be beligerence on behalf of anybody supplying those goods or services. As a supplier in the EU wishing to keep my customer happy and get paid, it’s in my interest not to lose customers to others. As recession starts to take hold outside the EU as well as within it, suppliers will be itching to fill the gaps left by beligerent EU suppliers.

    Apart from a few teething problems, so long as we are prepared at our ports of entry, supplier replacement should be relatively straightforward. Others might also wish to buy our goods. That’s the whole point.

    I can’t believe May and others spent 3 years not understanding this.

    • Fred H
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

      I encourage English businesses to actively look for suppliers from non-EU countries, and similarly businesses should be investigating selling to non-EU.
      The only way to counter the restrictive practices being used and threatening us.

  22. Mike wilson
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

    If we have to queue for petrol after we leave your party will be out of power for a long time.

    • Edward2
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:22 am | Permalink

      Fuel comes in via tanker ships at major ports of entry.
      Is the UK likely to turn them away?

      • Bob
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

        @Edward2

        “Fuel comes in via tanker ships at major ports of entry.
        Is the UK likely to turn them away?”

        No, but Brussels may decide to blockade them? Have you considered that?
        Think MV “Grace I”.

        • Jiminyjim
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

          So, if we’re ‘blockaded’ millions of people will continue to see the EU as munificent and enlightened? Just watch, Margaret H etc, as the EU so comprehensively wrecks its own reputation that it takes two generations to recover.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

          With their Navy presumably.
          Hilarious

        • dixie
          Posted August 20, 2019 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

          @Bob – are you seriously suggesting that the EU which you remainers insist is a beacon of free trade, peace and enlightenment, would commit an act of war against a peaceful neighbor?

    • NickC
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

      Mike Wilson, I thought you wanted to ban us from using petrol anyway?

    • Kevin Lohse
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

      Last time I checked, the EU did not produce appreciable quantities of petroleum products.

  23. James Wallace-Dunlop
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

    Project fear is not meant to stand up to robust scrutiny. It has been an unsuccessful attempt to make people repent their heresy. It is also a fog leaf being used by anti-democratic remainers who want to claim that stopping Brexit is necessary as a disaster prevention measure. Alas it seems the Speaker has abandoned the tradition of impartiality and is actively conspiring to re-write the rules.
    I suspect that the only thing that might prevent Erakine May being ripped up is if Bercow know that the Upper house will support No Deal. At the moment, packed full of Lib Dems due to the coalition formula, the Lords will not play that role. However, if the PM respected the formula w.r.t the UKIP/Brexit party showing in recent elections, he would (ask the Queen to) appoint a few hundred Brexiteers, and the playing field would be made fair.

  24. Andy
    Posted August 18, 2019 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

    You call it Project Fear.

    It is actually official government advice given to ministers.

    Ministers have been warned your preferred no-deal could lead to riots, shortages, deaths.

    Think about that. They have been told people may die. Food may run out. There may be violence.

    If ministers go ahead anyway – and the advice turns out to be in any way right – we will be needing a lot of prison cells for Tory MPs.

    • agricola
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

      We will look for you out there leadjng the riot. The official government advice which the observant call project fear all comes from those with a vested interest in remaining. I find it fascinating that your response to democracy is imprisonment for those who bring it about. At the moment you might be more successful on mainland China facing the demkcrats of HongKong. Think about it and trot off there.

    • Shirley
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:20 am | Permalink

      They are wasting their time. We had Project Fear before the referendum remember and we still got a majority Leave vote? 800,000 job losses, instant recession, and all the rest. Either people didn’t believe them (wisely) or felt the short term cost was justified.

      We chose freedom, and will accept any short term pain in exchange for long term gain. If there is no gain, we will change our government to one that is capable of governing a sovereign nation. The future of our country will be OUR choice, not the EU’s.

      • Andy
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:54 am | Permalink

        I am very happy for you to experience short term pain. You voted for it, you enjoy it.

        Perhaps we should ration fuel and medicine so Remain voters get them first as Brexiteers always like to claim they’re hard ‘and will survive’. I am happy to let you.

        • Shirley
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

          Sovereignty and democracy is priceless. That’s why we fought wars, but don’t worry, Andy. You will also enjoy the long term benefits of having a sovereign and self governing nation again, unless you have defected to your beloved EU, and then you can look forward to tax increases to replace the lost UK money. I really can’t imagine the EU will reduce their budget. Can you?

        • Jiminyjim
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

          I don’t want to inflict pain on you, Andy, but you’re doing your level best to persuade me I’m wrong

    • Edward2
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

      Did Project Fear 1.0 similar predictions come true?
      No they did not.

      Why would we stop food entering the UK?
      Much of it comes in from non EU nations right now.
      Do you see any queues?

    • Fred H
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      FOOD MAY RUN OUT, PEOPLE WILL DIE – read all about it!

      November 1st is end of the world as we know it.

      You just have to laugh at the regurgitated nonsense.

  25. Shirley
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 4:55 am | Permalink

    Why did we bother banning slavery? EU membership is another form of slavery if Parliament manages to keep us in the EU against the will of the majority. We chose freedom from the EU, as a slave would choose freedom from its master.

    I thought the whole point of democracy is to allow us to choose who governs us. When did the governors become dictators who ignore the electorate at large, and why cannot we kick out all the undemocratic MP’s without waiting for a GE? If someone doesn’t do the job they were democratically engaged to do then why are they allowed to keep doing that job?

    We have been manipulated by political parties since 1972, as those parties chose pro-EU candidates and never gave us an honest choice, until UKIP came along, and now we have been given a choice the people with power and influence want to disregard it and use every dirty trick in the book to try and deny us our democracy.

    This is a battle we MUST win, else democracy is dead. Imagine the kickback if the referendum had come with the warning that only one result would be honoured!

  26. Peter van LEEUWEN
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:07 am | Permalink

    Our thousand extra custom officers are all ready for you! Make sure you bring your papaerwork! 🙂

    • Zorro
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:00 am | Permalink

      Something which was perfectly fine the day before suddenly becomes forbidden. That’s the EU in action!

      Zorro

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 11:39 am | Permalink

        @Zorro: Correction – the UK in action! The UK which would decide to become a 3rd country overnight, possibly without having arranged an orderly withdrawal, meaning that all EU primary and secundary law will cease to apply to the UK from that moment on, without any new arrangements being in place.

        • NickC
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

          PvL, That is complete drivel. The EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 patriates EU Regulations (EU Directives are already in UK law), so “all EU primary and secondary law” will continue to apply to the UK, after we Leave, contrary to your ignorant assertion. Consequently we will have an orderly withdrawal, though (hopefully) it will not be an EU controlled withdrawal, which is what you appear to mean.

          • Jiminyjim
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

            ‘Overnight’ PvL? You have funny clocks in Holland

          • Peter van LEEUWEN
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

            @NickC: The 19/8 EC press briefing complete drivel? How interesting!
            If EC law gives Britain (e.g. a British exporter) certain special rights as being in the EU, these rights may cease overnight.
            For such a clever (?) man, you do a lot of name-calling.

          • NickC
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 11:13 am | Permalink

            PvL, Can’t you read? I did not say that the UK’s retention of EU law gave us “certain special rights”, I said that EU laws would continue to apply in the UK by being patriated, contrary to your ignorant assertion that EU law would cease to apply overnight.

    • Edward2
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:27 am | Permalink

      Paperwork!
      It is all electronic now Peter.

      • bill brown
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:49 am | Permalink

        Edward 2

        it still take more time that is the issue especially for our exports according to WTO

        • Edward2
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

          How do you know bill?
          Have you ever actually traded goods in and out of the UK?
          My experiences over decades is that it is only marginally easier to trade with EU nations versus non EU nations.
          The “paperwork” is very similar in complexity but it is nearly all done by computers

          • bill brown
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

            Edward 2

            I run four companies that trade with the entire world.

            thank you

          • Edward2
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

            Well you should know that what I have said is correct then bill.
            The difference in complexity, paperwork, rules, regulations and general bureaucracy, between trading with EU and non EU nations is marginal.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

        @Edward2: in that case, make sure that your electronic paperwork is in order! Otherwise you’ll be occupying parking space in the Netherlands until you have fulfilled the 3rd country requirements, your exporters may not yet be used to. 🙂

        • Edward2
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

          Well yes, but any company that exports and imports currently will be professional enough to get the administration correct before that point.

          We used transport companies who were expert at importing and exporting and they would not collect your goods before they checked everything was in order.

          • bill brown
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

            Edward2

            this all costs money and requires further resources that smaller SMEs do not have

          • Edward2
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

            Not really bill.
            As I have said previously the difference between trading with the EU and non EU nations in terms of bureaucracy and paperwork is marginal.
            And you having huge business experience of such trades will know this, obviously.

        • NickC
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:02 pm | Permalink

          PvL, Make sure your electronic paperwork is in order! Otherwise you’ll be occupying parking space in the UK until you have fulfilled the 3rd country requirements that your exporters may not yet be used to!!

          Alternatively, business sellers and buyers (not governments) will continue to ensure product conformance as they already have to do now, and both imports and exports on both sides of the channel will continue with only minor initial hiccups in procedures.

          • bill brown
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

            NickC

            I am pleased you are so optimistic, let us see what happens in Calais on November 1st?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

            You remain fans are obsessed on Calais Dover
            The majority of exports and imports come and go from the many other points of entry.

    • agricola
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      Knowing that this attitude prevails in the EU is just one of the reason we choose not to remain.

      Consider the posibility that a few million Brits choose to holiday elswhere. We can survive minus the whore houses, drugs, and tulips, but consider our friends in southern europe who are financially dependant on tourism.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

        @agricola: Just as Amsterdam is getting overcrowded with tourists . . . you’re quite helpful. 🙂

    • Know-Dice
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      That’s Dutch efficiency well done 🙂

    • david price
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      None of which will convince me to buy goods and services from Dutch providers any longer.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

        @david price: 67 million minus one – I shiver. 🙂

        • dixie
          Posted August 20, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

          You ride Germany’s coat tails and believe you are immune?

          We’ll see.

          • Peter van LEEUWEN
            Posted August 21, 2019 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

            @dixie: Of course we’re not immune. Economically we will suffer from a Brexit like all neighbouring countries. We didn’t invent Brexit (for other reasons I still think it would be for the better that Britain leaves). But so far we’re not doing too badly economically, which you can find out for yourself. My remark was just to address the rather petty ideas of not buying from Holland or not buying from England. Brexit seems to have reached religious proportions in the minds of some.

          • dixie
            Posted August 21, 2019 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

            PvL what you call petty is standard operating procedure for most EU countries and especially their governments. If you insult someone don’t be surprised if the refuse to buy goods and services from you.

            And what you call Brexit is simply following the EU’s own rules – Article 50, so you did invent the process while your arrogance towards the UK, and others, lit the fuse. In so many ways the EU itself is responsible for Brexit.

  27. Helena
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:41 am | Permalink

    It’s great that other ports are ready to compete with Calais/ Dover. They will have their tunnels dug by October, will they?

    Reply There are ships!

    • Edward2
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      Helena, that must win the prize for the most ridiculous remainer post ever.

      • NickC
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

        Edward2, There is strong competition from Martin-in-C, PvL, Andy, Margaret H, and Acorn!!

        • Edward2
          Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

          Very true.
          But the tunnels comment made it my favourite.
          After no food, no medicines and my previous favourite no airplanes.

        • bill brown
          Posted August 20, 2019 at 9:09 am | Permalink

          NickC
          Which category do you fall in, too much drivel?

          • NickC
            Posted August 20, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

            Bill Brown, Would you care to be more specific?

    • Terry
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

      Ships are slower than road transport through a tunnel. But I do understand your point Mr Redwood – Brexit is all about making trade harder and slower. You voted for it. No idea why

      • Edward2
        Posted August 19, 2019 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

        Go to Felixstowe.
        One container every few seconds.

      • NickC
        Posted August 20, 2019 at 11:20 am | Permalink

        Terry, Trade with the EU will be (slightly) harder, but trade with the rest of the world will be much easier – we can henceforth set our own trade policies. That’s rather important given the UK exports about 50% more to the RoW than we do to the EU.

        • bill brown
          Posted August 20, 2019 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

          Nick C

          Rather easy to understand, too may comments it becomes rather monotonous

  28. Julie Williams
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    The latest outpouring comes from the Civil Service, moreover “Yellowhammer” has apparently been endorsed as the average scenario by a”senior civil servant”.
    Although Gove’s comment about “Black Swan” being a film about a ballet dancer and not the worse case scenario made me smile, three years of this nonsense is bordering on psychological warfare and I fear for the mental health of the vulnerable and impressionable,.
    Get your House and your “servants” in order quickly or “the Brexit Party won’t just be for Brexit, it will be for Life” to paraphrase.
    Whilst I hold respect for Sir John Redwood, thank goodness for some dispassionate debate amongst the hysteria, I find it increasingly difficult not o feel contempt for my “sovereign” Parliament and the Whitehall civil servants.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:19 am | Permalink

      @Julie

      Agreed, well said….

      It is time to realize that there are those with starkly different intentions to those of us that want to live a happy life, devoid of pain and conflict, with hope for the future – They have a different viewpoint.

      Our future is being stolen, our democracy impaled on the scrapheap of history, and we badly need the Brexit party to succeed in Parliament to counter the socialism inherent.

    • Zorro
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:03 am | Permalink

      When will this cowardly senior civil servant reveal himself? – utterly despicable.

      Zorro

  29. agricola
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    All the negative projections come down to one thing. The individuals putting out all this nonesense do not wish to leave the EU. Problem is the EU hear it and misinterpret it as thinking we are not serious as a nation in our desire and intention to leave. They will not sit down and discuss a sensible solution to leaving. It will be the remainers and an intransigent EU that are the cause of us leaving with no deal at all. Once we have left, remainers and the EU will be stood on the platform watching the train depart down the line wondering why it did not stop for them.

    • Fred H
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

      spot on.

  30. Bryan Harris
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    Perhaps this shows the level of desperation by some, or should that be the degree of incentives to some from those with money and of ill heart….
    These orchestrated lies ought to be a stark reminder to us all that all is not well in our kingdom, and indeed the wider world.
    We can no longer trust completely those that set themselves up to work for us.

    While we wait for good things to happen, we fear we will be betrayed, again. The establishment has been corrupted with false ideals and indoctrinated to take us down paths counter to our best interests.
    Even with Brexit we still need to drain the swamp.

    • steve
      Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

      Bryan Harris

      “Even with Brexit we still need to drain the swamp.”

      Oh indeed. It’s vital that once we’re out all these traitors need to be thoroughly purged from any public office.

      They and their kind should never be in a position to weaken this country
      ever again.

      Someone suggested the other day that the TV licence fee non payment could be decriminalised……excellent start !

  31. Shirley
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Why are the Remainers never asked what incentive the EU have to offer a better deal when they know that Parliament will resist ‘no deal’?

    Does it come down to a choice of a bad deal, or no Brexit, in the eyes of Remainers? Neither of those are good for the UK, so why are they still MP’s, acting on behalf of the UK?

    Why are they screwing up the chance of a fair deal with the EU? That question was rhetorical, by the way.

  32. Gareth Warren
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    These threats do seem to be nonsense, they do not even have the imagination to think up new ones.

    One real problem we will likely see though is a build up of supplies in Britain before leaving the EU in an attempt to avoid tariff changes. This was seen in the US when then slapped tariffs on China.

    In the short term I’d expect some higher prices while supermarkets scramble to secure non-EU supplies, here FTA’s and GATT 24 can help. On the other side of the channel and Ireland things will be a tad grim. Brexit will also likely re-balance the north-south economic divide with imports more likely to arrive in the north, which will make tales of operation stack on steroids a bit silly.

  33. Steve Reay
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    There’s a lot of fake Brexit news in our national news paper’s but also fakes news across all categories of news items. The government should take steps to stamp this type of behaviour.

  34. Freeborn John
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Boris Johnson has showed naive negotiating technique today in his dealings with the Dublin government. Why did he tell Varadkar that the Common Travel Area would continue after no deal? He should have put Irish citizens free access to the GB Labour market on the table which would have led to domestic pressure on Varadkar. On the day that the UK government announced that EU freedom of movement will come to an end on October 31 it would have been natural to say the artificial distinction between Irish and citizens of other EU member states comes to end also. Brussels could hardly complain about citizens of all EU member states being treated equally in future so he would have divided Dublin and Brussels.

    This is another unilateral concession being made by the UK which is simply pocketed by the other side. Boris is also making a negotiating tactical error by agreeing to visit Berlin, Paris and later Dublin. He is going to be given the run around and made to look foolish. The EU simply will not take him seriously while they see this negotiating naivety.

  35. steve
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    I’d like to know who leaked the report in the first place.

    Whoever it was should be routed, exposed, named, shamed, and sacked with confiscation of pension, and prosecuted.

  36. Rhoddas
    Posted August 19, 2019 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

    Project Fear is morphing into Project Armageddon yawn, we’re back to no food or medicine et al which the MSM did in the run up to March 31st exit date. No real rebuttals yet from the Rebuttal Unit, that must have been fake news too!

    Having worked for a Hong Kong based company whose businesses ran with their incredible strong negotiating strategy and fully integrated tactics across the whole company, one can clearly see the brit naivety with giving stuff away, but not getting anything in return.

    The EU must have been laughing themselves in their Weissbier over the combination of May’s fawning treachery and our dear DExEU Noddy & Toytown approach. Even so HoC voted against the putrid WA, so Boris has a mandate to say to EU leaders it’s not going to pass, hence we need a new approach.

    Reading the DE who are quoting the Times “Sir Peter Marshall, former UK representative to the UN in Geneva, has accused the Brussels bloc of being in “flagrant breach” of their obligations when it comes to the Article 50 treaty – the process for Britain’s withdrawal from the EU. He said any hope the EU would negotiate Brexit in a “positive spirit” were “extinguished” when former Prime Minister Theresa triggered Article 50.” ……… and ends with “In his scathing attack, Mr Marshall said the EU had painted themselves to be the good guy – but were rather acting in “SUSTAINED BAD FAITH”.

    So there you have it – the EU break their own rules – to protect the project and seek to consign our UK to vasselage in a colonial status.

    I am hoping Boris and Dominic are up to the task, they deserve all the support we can give them and I suggest some flex too with The Brexit Party, we need this done, they can command the northern powerhouse from Labour.

    Lets call it the JFDI Project – Just Do It!! The F can be implied.

  37. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted August 20, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    This Operation Yellowhammer document – has Philip Hammond signed it personally?

    In so far as it has any validity, Project Fear concentrates on the loss of trade with Europe. The authors of such documents never discuss the opportunities for exports to and imports from non-EU countries, for import substitution and a healthier balance of payments driven by sterling floating (sod those continental holidays; learn to like Bournemouth, Bognor, Blackpool and Great Yarmouth). They never mention how strict immigration control can damp down the housing market, avoid civil strife and provide British jobs for British workers.

    I won’t pretend that controlling immigration from Europe will be sufficient. etc ed

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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