Who wants an election?

It was curious to see how practically no Opposition MPs wanted a General election when offered the opportunity on Wednesday night.

The SNP probably do want an early election. They think they can improve their current position at Westminster.

Change UK and the Independents do not want an early election. They see from the polls that they are all likely to lose their seats. Of course many of the Independents recently created by their expulsion from the Conservative party will decide to take retirement. Most would probably like this Parliament to last a bit longer before they retire.

The Lib Dems probably think they could make some gains in an election, where they came a good second last time with a Labour vote to squeeze. Yet they  have decided to resist the offer so far as they are more wedded to keeping us in the EU than anything else. They are clearly conscious of the weakness of other Remain parties, the ambiguity of the Labour position and the opportunity to annoy the Prime Minister more by refusing an immediate election. They have  now said they wish to wait until the October 31 deadline has  passed before facing voters. They want the PM to have to ask for a new extension against his wishes, and they may well want a longer extension than the suggested one until the end of January.

The Greens May have a similar position to the Lib Dems. As they do best in similar seats they have a difficult decision to make about whether both should fight all the most likely seats or whether they do a deal over which to contest.

Labour is not in much of a condition to fight an election. It is low in the polls, and deeply divided about what its best course of action would be. What will a Labour Manifesto say about the EU issue? Will it repeat the previous one promising to take us out, with new added language about a deal which only amounts to changing the Political declaration and accepting the Withdrawal Agreement? Will they sketch a possible Agreement which the EU of course may well reject? Will they demand that whatever deal is agreed is subject to a referendum vote on a Remain or deal choice? Will they just ask for a second referendum to try to get the public to change their minds? It seems likely that they will avoid anything too precise, with language that permits some to believe they will try to  do a deal and others to think they will concentrate on a  second vote. This will still leave a lot of their Midlands and Northern pro Leave seats vulnerable to parties that believe in Brexit.

Some on the Remain side think all these parties need an understanding to put together some kind of Remain platform and avoid too many contests where they oppose each other. It seems unlikely this will work. Labour will be very reluctant to come out clearly for Remain given the voting base in many of their current seats and given the studied ambiguity of the leadership for some time. Without Labour as part of any understanding an important part of this vote base would not be part of any deal. In Scotland it would be especially difficult to arrange an SNP/Labour agreement, just as Greens and Lib Dems are too close for comfort making a deal difficult.

 

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365 Comments

  1. Brenda
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:15 am | Permalink

    They dont want an election until no deal is ruled out. That is what they SAID. Didnt you LISTEN?

    • Iain Gill
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

      That, of course, is BS, as a pro Brexit parliament after an election can change the law to do whatever it pleases. There is nothing the current lot can do to stop a massive pro Brexit win at the election.

      The only thing which could stop that is conservatives standing against the Brexit party, which could dilute the number of pro Brexit MPs returned.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

        Indeed nor the many fake Conservatives pretending to be pro-Brexit only at elections then kicking the voters in the teeth just after the election in the Cameron/Theresa May mode. At least we have 21 fewer of them now unless these appalling 21 are allowed back.

        Any questions on just (now four remainers including the chairman and just the one leaver). Even the leaver thought the dire 21 traitors should perhaps be allowed back in. No thanks they are total electoral liabilities. They would very probably undermine the next government too if re-elected.

        Antoinette Sandbatch mutters about “respect” on Any Questions. Respect has to be earned dear. What respect did you have for the voters? You are essentially a traitor acting against the interests of the country, the 17.4 million voters plus the many remain voters (who are democrats and actually respect the result) and you are trying to bury your party and give us the dire Corbyn/SNP.

        What on earth makes you feel you any deserve respect? You deserve nothing but complete and utter contempt. No sensible leave voter would ever vote for you even if you were allowed to return as a Conservative.

        • Iain Gill
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 2:37 am | Permalink

          They do the same on lots of other issues too, immigration down to the tens of thousands being a classic example.
          Almost the entire parliamentary party lied on this.

        • APL
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

          Lifelogic: “nor the many fake Conservatives pretending to be pro-Brexit only at elections then kicking the voters in the teeth ”

          It seems the Conservative party has an unlimited supply of liars and turncoats. Perhaps something is wrong with its selection procedures.

          It might get a more honest set of MPs if it recruited from HMP system.

          Of course, inmates that have previously been MPs would naturally be disqualified.

    • J Bush
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

      Most are probably hoping if they achieve keeping the UK in the EU with the Bill’s 3.2 clause they will be rewarded with a seat on the EU gravy train, because they know when an election does happen, most will be voted out.

      The reality is, there are 328 undemocratic deceitful cowardly people trying to overturn a 17.4 million vote.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

        That is indeed the reality.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

      Conveniently forgetting what had actually been said, and any other awkward facts, are the whole basis of Leave voters’ approach to everything, apparently, Brenda.

    • eeyore
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

      No need to shout, Brenda. Aren’t you grateful for JR’s cool and penetrating analysis of a very turbulent situation? I am.

      Clearly the Opposition is hoping the courts will do for them what they dare not do for themselves. Hiding behind the judges doesn’t look good, at least not to those who find hysterical displays of faux moral outrage no substitute for political honesty and courage.

      Brexit is the people’s policy. Those who frustrate it will have to answer to their masters eventually. They can’t put it off for ever.

    • Jagman84
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

      What if the EU refuse an extension for a more discussion on this unspecified ‘deal’and will only accept a revocation of Art.50? The EU stated that any further extension will only be for a GE or a second referendum. Didn’t you LISTEN? It takes 2 to tango in this saga. Something that seems to have slipped the mind of most extreme remainers.

    • BB
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      An illogical position if the next Government can repeal the laws of the previous one.

      • graham1946
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

        If they couldn’t we’d still have ducking stools and hanging for sheep stealing. It is a lot of fuss at the moment but I foresee a pyrrhic victory for the Remoaners in the end. The wailing and gnashing of teeth will be for nought.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

          It seems this parliament cannot even get out of the EU under section 50!

      • Fred H
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

        they do it all the time.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

      Brenda

      The only sure way they can ensure No Deal is ruled out is to WIN an election…. Dont you THINK?

    • Stred
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      They don’t want an election because they know that the electorate will know that, by preventing no deal and working with their EU colleagues, they are doing the work of Messrs Barnier and Verhofsdaft and delivering the UK as a colony, to use the words of the Commission. An election would result in a clear out, possibly followed by prosecutions for collaboration or working for another country. The USE wishes to punish the UK and, in the words of the French president, we will be completely killed.

      • graham1946
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

        Just what the French have wanted for hundreds of years. The Remoaners don’t do history.

        • margaret howard
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

          Graham

          Err, graham, talking about not doing history. It took the French 100 years to get the English out of their country (Hundred Years’ War 1337-1453). However, in my experience DMail readers only know about Agincourt and Crecy.

          As far as I know the French have never occupied England (and I don’t mean the Normans).

          • APL
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

            margaret howard: “It took the French 100 years to get the English out of their country (Hundred Years’ War 1337-1453). ”

            What a twisted inaccurate and distorted perspective you have. The ‘English’ ruling class were Normans, who in case you have forgotten had invaded England in 1066, took over the country, in the process of subjugation razed the North to the ground, starved and murdered the population that opposed the occupation. – by some accounts it took the North of England two hundred years to recover from the Norman ‘enlightenment’.

            The hundred years war, you characterise as English aggression, was a battle between the House of Plantagenet (French) and the House of Valois ( French ).

            If it took the French 100 years to get the English out of their country, at least they succeeded, our aristocracy and ruling class is still mostly descended from Normans.

            French was the official and legal language of England until 1400. English people couldn’t speak their own language in their own courts or legal system for three hundred years.

            Everything you dishonestly ( possibly ignorantly ) and inaccurately characterize as ‘English’ oppression, it actually Norman oppression.

          • margaret howard
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 11:15 am | Permalink

            APL

            If you had read my last sentence you could have saved yourself a (warped) history lesson. The leaders may have been French but the soldiers ravaging the French countryside for over 100 years were definitely English.

          • APL
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

            margaret howard:”If you had read my last sentence you could have saved yourself a (warped) history lesson. ”

            I did, I thought at the time, it was a convenient ‘cop out’.

            margaret howard: “The leaders may have been French but the soldiers ravaging the French countryside for over 100 years were definitely English.”

            So, you concede that the English soldiers were mercenaries ( rather poorly paid too ) in a French Dynastic dispute?

            Are you proposing that over the 100 years duration of the dispute, the French leaders, did not notice what their English mercenary troops were doing?

            Or were the English troops following orders of their French overlords?

          • APL
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

            margaret howard: “The leaders may have been French but the soldiers ravaging the French countryside for over 100 years ”

            You clearly have no idea how such campaigns were waged during that period. Any invading army would need two things, food and supplies, and to deny the same to their opponent.

            Thus it is little surprise that the Norman ( French ) led army of English mercenaries ( conscripts ) used the same practice of the Norman ( French ) led army of William the Conqueror when he carried out his campaign of destruction and subjugation in the North of England.

    • Al
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      They have been quite upfront about that. However as the rule is that no Parliament can bind its successor, ruling out “No Deal/WTO Terms” only to have an election where at least one party would have putting “WTO terms” back on the table as their main platform (Brexit Party), seems counter-productive.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      Fine, but the only way to rule out “no deal” is to agree a deal. But no sensible (or remotely acceptable deal) is on offer. So no deal it has to be.

      The reason no sensible deal is on offer is mainly due to the quisling/traitors actively undermining the government and ensuring that the EU have no incentive to offer anything sensible.

      Given this position no deal is the best available by far – the sooner we leave (saving billions per month) the better.

      What the frit parties really mean is they do not want an election until they think they can win it. But they cannot win it now (and their position will just deteriorate further as everyone sees the effect of their appalling attempted enforced surrender to the EU bill). A total outrage against the people and to the interests of the UK.

      What sensible person would vote for anyone who voted for this UK surrender bill? They all need to be expunged from the Commons and the Lords.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

        Just listened to Antoinette Sandbach on the Spectator Radio Podcast. She completely misreads the political situation one wonder how she can be so daft and completely out of touch with reality – but then she was a lawyer & from a wealth family.

        She should never be allowed to come back of stand for the Conservatives. She is pure Libdim why did she ever join the Conservatives for a career one assumes?

        • graham1946
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

          Do they misread, or simply lie? I heard Emily Thornberry on radio this morning saying we will be queuing round the block for petrol, but she was not pulled up of course. She had the nerve to call Boris a liar on the shambles of Question Time last night. Ian Dale and Richard Tice constantly interrupted and given little time even to the extent that when Dale complained he was given ‘ten seconds to make his point’. New chair badly needed.

          • Lifelogic
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

            Indeed Fiona Bruce is hopeless “BBC think” to the core (so lefty, PC, climate alarmist, pro-remain & wrong headed on almost everything). She makes even the David Dimbleby and his brother look good (in relative terms).

            But have you heard the touchy-feely, BBC think and insufferably PC dope who does any answers on radio 4? She takes issue with, talks over or just cuts off everyone she slightly disagrees with (so nearly all the sensible callers that is). She is a bit like the green Brighton MP – pleasant enough but hasn’t got a clue about anything much. I think Caroline Lucas is an English Graduate too. It is hilarious when she talks about energy systems, “renewables”, transport or “the science” as they like to call it. She simply does not have a clue. Language and English Graduates it seems.

            Then again you can say that about all the recent Energy Ministers:- Amber Rudd, Ed Miliband, Ed Davey, C Huhne. At least Kwasi Kwarteng seems sound & rather bright than these people though still no science or engineering (classics and history).

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

        Who actually want the Conservatives to lose this election? So making the UK suffer the dire Corbyn/SNP and a Venezuela economy?

        It seems that John Major, M Heseltine, the 21/22 traitors who voted for the EU surrender bill, Claire Perry, Bercow, Alan Duncan and about 100 more Libdims still pretending to be Conservative MPs do.

        They must never be allowed back. Listening to Amber Rudd on the Spectator Women with Balls podcast she sound dire. More concerned obsessed with gender issues, wants the dire 21 back in the party (no way), another Energy Minister with zero understanding of energy (like Claire Perry).

    • Hope
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Mayhab ask d for an extension without any mandate from parliament and abused her position in so doing. Mayhab also agreed that no negotiation would take place during the extension. Therefore how can Johnson negotiate until after 31/10/2019? The bill is against the highest voting turn out and vote in history and defies the will of the people, handing control of our nation’s destiny to a foreign power. Quite disgraceful. In times past those MPs would be hung for treason.

      Secondly, I fail to see why Johnson cannot ask the Queen to veto the extension bill, Blaire and others have previously done so. In Blaire’s case to prevent him from going to war with Iraq against the public wishes!

      JR, could you tell us how Johnson can negotiate until after 31/10/2019 and has this led some MPs to think the UK is leaving without a deal because he cannot negotiate? Secondly, why can’t Johnson ask the Queen to veto the bill that impinges on his Prerogative?

    • Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

      I listened (but I didn’t shout).
      Did you hear Emily Thornberry on Question Time? She was simply laughed off the stage by everyone – whatever their background..
      Nigel Farage is clear. Boris is clear. Jo Swinson is clear.
      Whatever the Labour Party is saying – and meaning – Who knows?
      And then there is their economic revolution…

      • graham1946
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

        She was given loads of time to spout her nonsense though, as was the SNP guy who repeated his argument at least four times like a broken record.

    • Peter
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      Boris has said he will not ask for an extension.

      So if he just stands his ground and refuses to do so, without resigning, Parliament will have to take action. Otherwise No Deal automatically comes to pass at the end of October.

      That said, I still do not understand why Boris called off the filibuster in the Lords.

      • Chris
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

        In reply to your last sentence, apparently because Corbyn had assured him that he would give his approval for an early election. Surprise, surprise. Corbyn apparently did not keep his word.

    • TheyWontCrushBrexit
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      It’s extremely difficult to understand what they said realy, but thanks for your input.

      It’s good to have someone here, with the powers of Doctor Dolittle, who understands and can translate Labour’s “chicken talk”.

    • jane4brexit
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      Brexit has proven that what most MPs and parties do, is not the same as what they say and said ie: Leave without any deal other than WTO. Have you not noticed?

      Sir John, would it be possible for Boris to break the terms of the current extension, making it invalid. I am not sure of the terms but know there were some, certainly about starting trade deals outside of the EU, presumably there are some that would break it making any extension impossible?

      • jane4brexit
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        Ps to Brenda: Our host is of course an exception.

    • Peter
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

      He knows that, but he’s trying to establish a narrative. We should continue to call him out on it and try to keep this blog from being an echo chamber of sycophants and yes-men.

      • Peter
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

        Not one of my posts. See above for the original Peter on here.

    • ukretired123
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

      Labour don’t want an election until the polls show they are leading!
      But also having asked for an election 10 times who would trust Chicken Corbyn?

      • graham1946
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

        I see Corbyn for the cooking pot poste haste as they know they can’t win with him. With two years to go to the next GE there probably did not seem like much urgency. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him retired by Christmas. Mind you who else do they have that anyone could actually vote for?

        • steve
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

          Graham

          “Mind you who else do they have that anyone could actually vote for?”

          …..irrelevant, because like Blair, Corbyn has left a great big stinky foul smelly skid mark in his wake.

          Labour won’t win a GE, people are utterly appalled at their shameful behaviour, and it must be said that of their not so secret friend John Bercow.

    • NickC
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:04 am | Permalink

      Brenda, Well, clearly “they” didn’t listen when the people said we wanted to depart from EU control.

    • Hope
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

      Fantastic news Major looses his court case to stop prerogation of parliament. Was it not a major who said it was good to gloat! The same man who through his fanatical EU dogma cost thousands of business to go bust and people to lose their homes through his dream to have the same currency as the EU! The same disaster that Ken Clarke recently called a blip on TV as it was some trivia, people loosing homes and business, he was involved in! Both are a disgrace and would not know democracy if it slapped them in the face.

    • Simeon
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

      You are of course right. Our host is not offering full disclosure on the situation. It’s unedifying. In simple terms, once this Parliament has reached the limit on what it can agree, then a new Parliament is required, i.e. the people are consulted, as is perfectly usual in our system of democracy. Yes, this Parliament has conducted itself abominable, and yes, a GE is urgently needed. But this Parliament has yet to run its course, as it must do in our system.

      Attempts to achieve policy through Parliamentary tricks are pathetic, no matter which side is using them. It should also be observed that if Brexit or Remain were to be realised through such trickery, the people would not stand for it.

      A democratic mandate was given in 2016. The political class has since queered the pitch to the extent that a new democratic mandate is required. I realise that the instruction in 2016 was clear, but if our representatives fail to do what they are told, new representatives must be sought. Until we live in a direct democracy, these are the rules.

      To he clear, the present Parliament can extend its life by offering a second referendum. I expect this to happen as the logical compromise of opposition forces. If the result of such a referendum is still not fully respected, the political consequences will be profound.

    • dennisambler
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      They don’t want an election until they think they can win it. Can’t you SEE THROUGH the posturing.

    • BR
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

      He said that (4th paragraph).

      He should perhaps have added “LOL”.

      Reading is tough, I know, but if you practice and listen to your teachers, I’m sure you’ll get there in the end.

    • rose
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

      They agreed that if they got their bill through the Lords the other night we could have an election. They are reneging, as was all too predictable. They never should have been trusted.

      • Chris
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

        Exactly, rose.

    • Robert mcdonald
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

      Surely the best way for them to ensure that is a general election that provides them with a majority to govern. Clearly they expect to lose, and no matter when they lose, any legislation they spin through parliament can be rescinded by a new parliament. All they are really aiming for is a petty win over Johnson insistance that we will leave on 31 Oct. If we don’t it’s not Johnsons failure, its parliaments failure and the electorate see that clearly.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

      I do listen @ Brenda

      I listened to Baroness Nugee last night saying she wanted to stay in under any circumstances. This is record she and Diane Abbott have not changed.
      I listened to Jo Swinson saying she would not respect any future referendum and wanted to stay in.
      I listened to ex-Chancellor Hammond saying he would never allow us to leave except on terms he agreed with.
      I listened to Gina Miller saying she is still right even though she has lost a court case.
      I am bored with listening to Sir Kier Starmer moving the goalposts for what he will accept to leave the EU with his notional six tests which involve staying in.

      These people all want to stay in and I am listening to their excuses for not leaving. The red lines were clear from the start and a customs union was one of our red lines.

      When will they start listening to the majority of us?

    • Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

      If you’re speaking to our host, ‘Brenda’, wouldn’t it be a good idea to show some courtesy? You’re a guest. You don’t HAVE to visit this site if it offends your tender remain sensibilities.

      • Woody
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

        Come on now, we’d have less to laugh about this farce if the likes of “brenda” didn’t comment. It is hilarious to be told we are not LISTENING by a rabid remoaner.

  2. Mark B
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:16 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    Me ! I want a GE so that we can, hopefully, get a BREXIT parliament and government. We also need to do something about the little man in the big chair.

    It may well come to pass that the WA goes through on what might be a technicality. 😉 Unless of course the tellers turn up ! 😉

    We will have to see what happens Monday and, if the government tables a motion of confidence in itself ? We could see the hilarious spectacle of PM, Alexander Johnson MP, voting against himself and Jeremy Cornyn MP voting for, all to stop the government setting a date for an election.

    Interesting times indeed .

    • Mark B
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:52 am | Permalink

      Oh come on, are you serious.

      • BB
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

        Thornberry outlined the Labour approach last night on QT. They will negotiate the best deal possible from the EU then have a best deal vs out referendum with Labour campaigning for remain. Why would the EU offer a reasonable deal in those circumstances?

        • BB
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

          best deal vs remain.

          • graham1946
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

            Yes, and they really think the EU is going to waste time ‘negotiating’ with them only to have any deal they get rubbished in a referendum? They are away with the fairies.

          • APL
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

            BB: “best deal vs remain.”

            So you’ll get a chance to vote for Remain ( Best deal ) or Remain.

            Left wing socialist democracy for you.

      • Hope
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

        Will those MPs be stripped of titles, privy council status and pensions? If not what sanction will be taken against them? Including Bercow. They are always quick to denounce others for far less.

        Rules need to change for MPs wishing to change party, a by election must be held. A proper right to recall is now demanded. Dishonest charletons who call themselves honourable and right honourable is beyond a joke. Rules regarding speaker must be changed as well, better still no MP should be elegible only serving maigistrate or judge.

        Thornbury wants to agree a withdraw agreement with the EU and campaign against it! The rump SNP, that is over represented by MPs for such a small nation, needs to be put back in its box. Start off by drastically cutting settlement to Scotland, no longer do I want a disproportionate amount of my taxes going to these Looney tunes.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:55 am | Permalink

        Reason is not possible, with people who caricature anything other than the absolute, utmost hostility towards the European Union as “treason”.

        Absolutism on relative matters is comical in infants, but lamentable among politicians and voters.

        That is what has made the country a global laughing-stock and object of contempt in equal measure.

        • graham1946
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

          As you have been unable to give us reasons to stay in, perhaps you could try an easier one – how do you compromise on a binary question? This should be good.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

            It was a choice between something defined, remaining in the European Union on present terms, and something completely undefined – leaving the European Union Treaties, but for a then unspecified future trading and other relationships with it.

            It is the false claim, by Leave fanatics, that that future relationship was actually magically specified, which has led to all the trouble.

            Cameron’s warnings, as to what Leave materially meant were in no way a promise that those positions – e.g. leaving the customs union – would remain after a deal were struck.

          • NickC
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 11:45 am | Permalink

            Martin, Remain was not and is not defined. The EU in 2016 is not the EU in 2019. Neither you nor anyone in the UK can prevent the EU changing in ways we cannot define.

            Leave on the other hand is closely defined. It means departing from the EU so that we leave the EU treaties and do not return to them. We become as independent as New Zealand.

            What we do after we are free (after the UK has left the EU) is up to us. That must not be defined by you or me because it would take away the right of future electorates to decide.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

          Martin in Cardiff

          In order to prove that you aren’t in fact a screaming, grizzling, infant you will need to point to some factual evidence that the UK is a global laughing-stock and object of contempt

          I wont wait

          • margaret howard
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

            libertarian

            Factual evidence? It’s there for all to see and hear (at least for those that read more than the Daily Mail) The whole world is laughing.

          • NickC
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 11:47 am | Permalink

            Margaret H, What is there for the whole world to see is that the EU is nastier than the most jaundiced eurosceptic said prior to the Referendum.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 9, 2019 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

            Maggs

            If thats the case then you will be able to provide a link to then

            No thought not

      • Hope
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

        Why did Johnson tell the Lords to let Ben’s bill pass?

        • Chris
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

          …because Corbyn apparently assured him that, with the Bill passed, he (Corbyn) would support Boris re an early election. Apparently Corbyn then reneged on this “promise”. Boris was extremely foolish to trust him, if that is the case.

          • APL
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

            Chris: “Boris was extremely foolish to trust him, if that is the case.”

            Boris has always been lukewarm on leaving the EU. Boris is more interested in Boris. He is like the Vicar of Brey, he’ll say anything if it furthers the interest of Boris Johnston.

            The Tory party, one monumental Kabuki theatre for with the aim to frustrate BREXIT.

    • Ian!
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

      Unfortunately it is the only way left to get one. Failing that sit it out until May 2022 there are not enough on the other side to force one either.

      Why should remainers have all the fun.

      • graham1946
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

        All Boris has to do now is introduce some daft legislation, say banning the Labour Party, as a matter of confidence and it will be voted down and the government will fall.

        • steve
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

          Graham

          “say banning the Labour Party”

          In my opinion it should be banned, along with every other anglophobic entity.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

      We also need an election while the threat of a Corbyn/Mc Donnall with SNP tail government makes Labour largely unelectable. He might will be kicked out or retire very soon.

    • NickC
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      MarkB, The most “successful” Remain extremists combine a belief in their own superiority with a fluency in lying to, or at least misleading, others.

      We have many examples on here: Newmania calling us Leaves “inferior”; Andy and Martin (has anyone seen them in a room together?) pretending they don’t know that the dWA keeps us under EU control; and even Jerry with his perpetual “How?” question disguising (so he hopes) his preferred outcome of not departing from EU control.

      Currently, Remain propaganda inserts the notion that Brexit is a Parliamentary squabble, thereby completely by-passing the people’s 2016 Leave decision. By that method they attempt to divert everyone’s attention away from the fact that Remain MPs have wantonly overturned our vote. It is outrageous.

      We should not acquiesce. We should not need a “Brexit” Parliament. All MPs should accept our vote to leave the EU treaties, even if they disagree with it. They had their say in 2016 and lost the argument. We had our say, and they should listen.

      • Mark B
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        Forgive me, but I make a point of NEVER reading, much less replying, to those individuals. I can only suggest that both you and others do the same and, as you will soon see, they will Leave this place.

      • steve
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:35 am | Permalink

        Nick C

        “We have many examples on here: Newmania calling us Leaves “inferior”; Andy and Martin (has anyone seen them in a room together?) pretending they don’t know that the dWA keeps us under EU control; and even Jerry with his perpetual “How?” question disguising (so he hopes) his preferred outcome of not departing from EU control.”

        ……Exactly, Nick. Perhaps it might be an idea for everyone not to reply to that lot (they could all be the same troll) don’t give them any attention.

  3. Peter Wood
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    If we are seeing the best plan that BJ and his team could devise since he took office, then I think it’s time for a motion of ‘no confidence’ by the PCP… IN the PCP. You lot really are an impotent shower, you can’t even manage to call a General Election!

    • Chris Simmonds
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      He’s called it, but the offer was declined as it can be under the fixed term Parliament act. We know why it was declined don’t we?

    • Simeon
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      A valid point.

    • dennisambler
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:03 am | Permalink

      They cannot do so because of the Fixed Parliament Act, so your jibe has no substance.

      • Peter Wood
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

        I’m aware of the FTPA, my point is BJ and his team of highly educated political geniuses(?) haven’t found a way to either seduce enough MP’s to go along with a call for a GE, nor a ‘technical’ solution to get one. So what is the plan…; or are we being duped and he’s not really trying to get us out?

        • Anonymous
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

          Remain MPs don’t want an election because they’d know they’d lose it.

          Leavers don’t want a second referendum because it will be a three way rig and even if they do win it (yet again) Remain MPs would block it again.

          I expect to see ordinary people of good standing being battered by police outside Parliament this year.

          Not a good look for the EU.

    • rose
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:15 am | Permalink

      The FTPA requires a two thirds majority. PMs can no longer ask the Queen for a dissolution. So it is no good railing at the minority. This is probably the worst thing bequeathed by the Coalition of 2010.

    • Tom Rogers
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

      I love the old-fashioned use of the word impotent in this context. It’s articulate and has a wonderful subtlety and meaning to it, not often used nowadays.

      You perfectly sum up the situation and the culpability of all of them.

    • Hope
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

      I quite agree. I have come to the conclusion that I detest everything the alleged Tory party stand for. I then I would not know what it is they stand for because they never ever keep to their word! There is no conservativism in the Tory party. New Labour in disguise. Brexit Party for me. Everything Farage said has come to pass despite smears and labels from the establishment and established parties, including our host!

      Parliament has shown this week it is rotten to its core and beyond reform. It has the same credibilty as the EU in this regard. A clear out is well overdue.

    • APL
      Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      Peter Wood: “or are we being duped and he’s not really trying to get us out?”

      Bingo!!

  4. Shirley
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    I know that democracy has been sidelined for decades, in favour of the EU, but I never realised that Parliament was willing to completely destroy it in order to remain in the EU. Parliament is destroying our country, and its standing in the world. The UK will become the first civilised country to lose its democracy, if the Remainers get their way.

    What next? Imprisonment of opposing political parties? If they allow us to vote for them, then they know they will lose. The whole of the EU is turning more and more towards eurosceptic parties as time progresses. How will they control this?

    • Ian!
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:17 am | Permalink

      Unfortunately it is the only way left to get one. Failing that sit it out until May 2022 there are not enough on the other side to force one either.

      Why should remainers have all the fun.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:27 am | Permalink

      What a load of shrieking nonsense that is Linda.

      Consider this. Farage’s ukip in 2014 had no interest at all in “the will of the people”. “Parliament Is Supreme” proclaimed their manifesto, and on that basis they would, with a Commons majority, simply repeal the European Communities Act. There would be no referendum, to blazes with the popular opinion.

      Now take a look at yourselves?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:31 am | Permalink

        Sorry, Shirley.

        • Anonymous
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

          Surely ?

      • steve
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff

        “to blazes with the popular opinion.”

        …….the core belief of all you remain minority losers. Hypocrite.

    • Pete S
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

      The actions of MPs and Parl has been flushed out. After seeing our 5th column May gov, secretly collude with the EU against the UK. The depth of the betrayal is extensive.

      Opposition MPs are even now colluding with the EU, Starmer let it slip he is doing it. The UK citizens are getting a public demonstration in what contempt they are held.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      Remember the USSR?
      They managed it.

    • JimS
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

      Do we now have a dictatorship, with the government being parliament, unelected with no mandate, unaccountable and impossible to remove for the next three years?

      Will it possibly vote through a fixed parliament act in the space of a few days? That should please Brenda from Bristol at any rate!

      We are either in the EU or out, there is no half-way. The EU has failed to follow Article 50, it had two years to manage the transition which should have been completed last March. Parliament’s insistence on ‘no deal’ puts us in permanent Article 50 limbo during which time it and the EU continue to plot against the UK, no doubt to make us the first full member of the EU super-state with an appointed regional council selected from this parliament.

    • Margaret
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

      I am glad someone can see this.

    • margaret howard
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

      Shirley

      “. The whole of the EU is turning more and more towards eurosceptic parties as time progresses”

      Can you name a single EU country that has not voted for a pro EU party?

      • steve
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:44 am | Permalink

        MH

        That is not what Shirley said, try reading what is in front of you.

      • Woody
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

        The UK voted predominantly for an anti eu party, the Brexit Party, in the latest eu election con. Of course we aren’t in the eu now are we ?

  5. Newmania
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    Electoral calculus has the Parties as follows on the basis of the Boris bounce ( which has since faded but still )

    Conservative 33.3% 350
    Labour 25% 193

    The Greens ands Brexit between them are on about 18% for which they may get one seat , the Liberals are on about the same and get 34 . The SNP on 3/4% get 51. Useless isn`t it .
    Interesting points of comparison , traitor failure and disgrace John Major achieved
    0nly 376 seats with a Popular vote of 42.2% . Total failure Neil Kinnock achieved 30.8% of the vote in 1983 and interesting contrast with popular new lefty exciting Jeremy Corbyn on 22-25%.

    In as far as one can tell overall it reflects the remain majority but would deliver a Conservative majority sufficient to drag us all out of the EU damage our country and our children` s future .

    and this farce is the prize clap clap clap clap …well done ….

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

      Kinnock was not leader in 1983. Michael Foot was.

      • Newmania
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

        Neil Kinnoc was the Leader of the Labour Party and Leader of the Opposition from 1983 until 1992

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

      Cameron only just scraped a tiny majority (winning my little wager at the time) when he promised a referendum and so the UKIP voters mainly returned to the Conservatives (35.8% of the vote) and Brexit (12.6%). Brexit are currently on 12.9% and this will rise unless some deal is done. A majority thrown away by May’s pathetic incompetence.

      The conservaties can only win a workable majority by promising a clean Brexit and doing a deal with the the Brexit Party. If Brexit stand (almost everywhere) the Conservatives will stuggle to get any majority at all. Even if they do scrape one there will still be several Libdim MPs pretending to be Conservatives to undermine the next government.

      To win the election it is vital that the 21 who were kicked out of the party are not allowed back under any circumstances and more of the other traitor need to join them. John Major is, as usual, completely wrong. Is burying the party once not enough for this very silly man? He acheived 165 seats to Blairs 418(after his predictable ERM fiasco and Maastricht) and the party has still not properly recovered even now.

      It is vital to have a Brexit deal and one is clearly on offer they must take it. It will help win far more Labour seats that they could not win otherwise. They Conservatives also need to restore their reputation for being a party of low taxation. Another reason never to let the tax to death Hammond back into the party.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

        Fraser Nelson is right today in the Telegraph:- Boris’s agenda isn’t ‘extreme’ or ‘hard-Right’ – and voters know it. It suits the Prime Minister’s enemies to portray him as a tub-thumping populist, but it just isn’t true.

        Indeed on many things like climate alarmism, renewables, big government, over interventionist, pro regulation and on economics he is rather too left wing and rather misguided. Hopefully he will change that soon after he wins the election together with the Farage/Brexit Party accommodation/deal. But this is certainly needed.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

      so do tell us….do YOU want a GE now?

    • libertarian
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      Morning Newmaniac

      Just been looking up another of your claims that polls show a large majority in favour of Remaining

      So far not found any evidence . The latest You Gov poll of polls shows 51 leave 49 remain

      If there is as you claim a large Remain majority the only way that you could lose a GE is by splitting the vote

      Anyway back to your City jobs claim, I’m still waning for an answer

      • Newmania
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

        Not large. The lead has been up to 10% more usually 5% and in the recent Boris period, the Polls have narrowed . The last U Gov Poll asking how would you vote is 46% remain and 43% Leave , Delta 46% 41% , it looks as if the Boris bounce has been short lived and we are going back to the remain lead . I would be the first to admit the leave vote has held up astonishingly considering how the whole campaign was based on lies .
        Of course Leave voters probably don`t read much analysis

        Sorry about the Tourettes ( and the pseudologia fantastica )….all a bit sad really

        • NickC
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 11:55 am | Permalink

          Newmania, Relying on polls is the loser’s resort. We won the Referendum. If Remain MPs won’t obey that, why should we – or anyone – obey them? Remain cheating will come home to roost.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      There is no Remain majority apart from by bullying and wearing democratic people down. There was no 17 million plus Remain vote in the EU elections, when they could have turned up. This simple fact is buried and ignored. (LD 3.4m Greens 2m = 5.4m <<17.4m, this is the hard core, similar in number to those who sign petitions)

    • Al
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      “The Greens ands Brexit between them are on about 18% for which they may get one seat”.

      Given the different views, it is as well to split these: Brexit party 12.9%, Green 4.7%, which suggests immediately that an electoral pact between the Conservatives and Brexit Party would be essential to either’s success. Also, as we’ve already seen with the Green Party, it depends on how concentrated those votes are in any location.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

      Funny that. I’m thinking of my children’s future too and conceding to the EU’s every demand (which a deal at any cost is aka no No Deal) is no future at all.

      Not if they stay in Britain anyway.

      • Fred H
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

        Those unhappy still have time to relocate to EU, GODSPEED!

    • NickC
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      Newmania, There is a Leave majority. We know this because there is a Referendum decision to Leave, to depart from the EU, which has not yet been implemented. Why not? No need for your self-serving guesses at the strengths of the parties – especially since many Labour, Libdem and Green voters want Brexit too.

    • Richard1
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      If it is clear opinion now splits 4 or even 5 ways in elections it seems we will have to move to PR. I’ve never favoured it, but FPP only works if the large majority of voters do back one of two main parties in contention.

    • jane4brexit
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

      Reassuringly around two thirds of all constituencies voted Leave in the referendum and polls seem less and less reliable. Re your other figures by his last win Blair won with just less than 22% of the electorate if those who chose not to vote are included in the figures, so something of a farce then too.

      Boris needs to start pointing out the benefits of WTO and the faults of the WA to the public, to boost his support. Perhaps directly on Twitter, copying President Trump, as our media don’t seem interested or take out newspaper ads. Some of the “horrors” in the WA have been pointed out here and here below:

      https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/the-top-40-horrors-lurking-in-the-small-print-of-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-2/
      https://brexitcentral.com/nasty-surprises-smallprint-theresa-mays-brexit-deal/

      But I don’t think either of the above have explained how we will continue paying about a quarter of EU pensions under the WA, some up until the 2060’s, despite our staff being only around 7% of all EU staff and having paid much in already (earlier salary deductions of up to 13.75% and new non contributory pensions from fees and taxes) all despite us not being liable to pay pensions at all once we Leave.

      The unfairness of this re pensions explained should get overall support, especially from the 3.8m WASPI age women and their families too who he said he would consider helping, if he offered them some of that money saved by agreeing to ‘no deal’. That large a demographic is a quick way to boost anyone’s vote, but only he can do it with all other parties wanting BRINO at best..

    • Ian terry
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

      Newmania.

      You are amazing do you know that? You are the only man in the country that seems to be in full knowledge of a no deal leaving the EU.I wish you you would provide full chapter and verse on it all. The truth is nobody knows not even our host and we can all think what may and could happen but it is just that our own personal thoughts. I am more worried about the rolling out of the Lisbon treaty and full blown Federalism being slowly but surely being moved forward by the EU.

      Until we actually do it then that is the time to actually get all behind the country and just do it. We are experiencing all this because of the majority fear of change which could end end being better for everybody including your children.

      Change produces three types of people:

      Those who make it happen.
      Those who want it to happen.
      Those who wondered what the **** happened.

      Why do we keep talking this country down? Every twist and turn someone always ready to slag it off The way this whole process has been handled by politicians , BBC and the media in general is a total disgrace. Is it any wonder we are where we are now.

      • Newmania
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

        Yes unravelling 40 years of law and international relations was not something you could do without overwhelming popular backing
        That is one reason we should not have done it

        I agree no-one knows what will happen- under such circumstances what I usually do ( lets say to the plumbing ) is not touch it .
        You are the one un der the impression you are a genius . not me

        • Fedupsoutherner
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 9:40 am | Permalink

          Newmania

          You are the one un der the impression you are a genius . not me

          Well, judging by the posts you have been putting in one could have been forgiven for thinking you were God.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

      A general election is the obvious way to break the impasse but Remainers don’t want one. They know full well they’d lose.

      Instead they take No Deal off the table and bed block Parliament. So what does ‘take No Deal off the table’ mean ? It doesn’t make any sense because a No Deal is an absence of something (it means a deal has not been struck) and is not *on* the table, it is the freedom to walk away from the table.

      This isn’t purely an issue of semantics – it is a deliberate misuse of the phrase by Remain.

      So, instead, our intrepid Remainers are going to foist upon our children any concession that the EU demands. (You’re not the only one who cares about their children, Mr Slippery.)

      You bleat on about how No Deal was not on the ballot paper – well our complete surrender to the EU under terms as bad as defeated 20th C Germany had to suffer certainly wasn’t !

      I blame you for all of it.

      From the sneering contempt of this nation’s people – which led to the referendum in the first place – to the destruction of our Parliamentary democracy with the country soon to follow.

      When real hardship hits, with us chained to the EU and under its foot, God knows where this is going to take us.

      (HT Frederick Forsyth)

    • forthurst
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

      Two thirds of the English people voted to leave the EU. That is a very large majority.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

        Seventeen out of sixty-seven million is two thirds?

        I take it that you did not do well in mathematics, and never went far in life generally?

        • Edward2
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

          Remain got even less using your maths.

        • graham1946
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

          Actually 38 million in England – not 67 million so wrong as usual. Why do you exaggerate and insult in your posts, makes you look even more silly.
          I think Forthurst means by constituency – 63 percent, not far short of two thirds. For your info school kids and babies do not vote. Seems you did not do well in your comprehension lessons in English Language.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:45 am | Permalink

            He did not specify voters, just numbers of people, but my figures were for the UK, not for England, yes.

  6. Ian!
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    It’s the Country and it’s people that need an election.

    We are lumbered with a Parliment that is fighting the People.

    The greater majority promised one thing to get elected, as in, an independent self governing Parliament. Yet had never a single intention of delivering it. They wanted just to kick the can down the road, while coming up with bizarre excuses. So a great chunk of MP’s are intact fraudsters.

    We have a Parliment that is frightened to Govern, but are good at deceit.

    There appears to only be about 10% of MP’s that have any integrity, in that I do include you Sir John.

    So it’s the People that need and deserve a General Election

    • Iain Moore
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

      The Remainers have taken our Parliament hostage , they won’t vote for a deal, they won’t vote for an election, all they are doing is squatting there trying to think up ways to overturn our referendum.

    • Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      Too bad 90 percent of the politicians give the other 10 percent a bad name.
      Henry Kissinger.

    • BOF
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Ian! Very well summed up.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

      Indeed 10% at best have both integrity, common sense & intelligence. Clearly almost none in the Labour, Libdim, Independent Group, SNP, Plaid and Greens given their mad economic, big government, anti-democratic EU loving and green loon policies. About 20% of Conservative MPs sound. Certainly non of the 200 who supported Theresa May in her no confidence vote. Even those like Boris and Mogg, who voted for the W/A once, are a bit suspect.

      You can do still it Boris be brave – the people need you.

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

        To be honest I never expected to find myself in awe of the man. I hope he keeps it up.

  7. Ian Wragg
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    I don’t think Labour will ever support an election. It is going to have to be a vote of no confidence and the inability to form a new government that will do it. All the time increasing the support for the BP.

    • Pete S
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      The numbers mean that WITHOUT the votes of Labour, no GE can be obtained for 3 years. Labour cannot hold this position, their low ratings will sink to ZERO. How this will play out, I don’t know. The queen as head of state may be forced to intervene.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      and it is clear that the BP is the only party who consistently stick with their aim, like the Spice Girls…I’ll tell you what we want, what we really really want.

      • John Probert
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

        @Fred H well you can’t join the Spice girls so try the Girl Guides

  8. Richard1
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    Most important of all now is Labour with their far left agenda are defeated decisively. Removing the potential of such madnesses as arbitrary expropriation of property from categories of people unpopular with a left-wing govt would be a huge boost to confidence in the UK economy. This is far more important than whether we leave the EU on Oct 31 or another date, or even how we leave the EU.

    • BJC
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      Richard1

      Labour will not agree to a GE whilst an increasingly unpopular Corbyn is their leader, and I suspect this is the reason for their reluctance to proceed. I’m picking up signals that they’re regularly sidestepping Corbyn and with the conference season coming up, I’m expecting to see some unedifying jostling for position.

      MPs suffer from “group think” which stifles their ability for independent thought and blunts their imagination. Outside of Bubbleland it’s clear that the LibDems and SNP are blinded by their own hubris and think they’re being clever. However, if they looked at the situation more broadly and long-term, they would see that allegiances are already shifting in Labour ready for when they get rid of Corbyn, possibly in the next few weeks. The minute this happens the tribal Labour supporters will return to them without a second thought, and Remainer parties will lose their leverage.

      I’d like to comment on Mr Johnson whose confidence has clearly been shaken. His performance was very poor yesterday, and appeared to be due to a lack of preparation. He cannot afford to do this and must remember the old adage, fail to prepare, prepare to fail. He’s far better than this and must stop giving his detractors ammunition if he is to keep his team and the country behind him.

      I watched the appallingly coarse Emily Thornberry on her personal Question Time platform last night with her avalanche of personal attacks on his and Mr Cumming’s characters. When he tries, Mr Johnson can be very clever with words and is quite capable of subtley exploiting this sort of weakness. It achieves nothing to allow his opponents to press his buttons (including internal pressures) or stoop to their level.

      Finally, good and successful leaders regularly adapt their style to suit the fluid situations they face, and it’s standard practise to apply the occasional autocratic measure to keep things on track, especially in the face of opposition to change. There’s no friendship in business, and if those around Mr Johnson cannot (meaning will not) adapt they must go because his position is only as strong as the weakest link in his team.

    • bigneil
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

      ” whether we leave the EU on Oct 31 or another date, ” – There a a lot of self-interested people hope the date is “The Twelfth of Never ” – and that’s a long long time .

    • rose
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:18 am | Permalink

      How so? They seem really well organized with their mobs and their propaganda, and all those useful idiots in the other parties and in the media.

    • Alison
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

      WHile Corbyn and co’s policies are terrifying, far more terrifying is the EU being in control of our country, which will happen if we stay in and also if we sign the current WA (with or without backstop).

      • tim
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

        if you had not noticed, we are already controlled, we are a vassel state. Remember the frog in the cooking pot, that frog is the UK!

  9. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    I really can’t see a way around this and so I fear the EU will call the shots. Something is radically wrong with the system and needs reform. If there is ANY way around this then Boris must take it. John, can you advise please? Why, if leaving last March was the lawful position , didn’t Boris take us out straight away? Personally, I feel we will not leave now unless there is a way that the Queen can intervene as some suggest. Dark days indeed. If there is a general election then to ensure victory Boris needs to work with Farage.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      The two year period was written into Article 50 specifically to limit the ability of the EU to call the shots, as explained at some length here:

      http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/03/13/voting-for-the-brexit-bill/#comment-860143

      “The Praesidium considers that … withdrawal of a Member State from the Union cannot be made conditional upon the conclusion of a withdrawal agreement.”

      So what have the UK opposition parties now done through UK law? They have done what the EU deliberately avoided doing through the EU Constitution and then the Lisbon Treaty, they have made the withdrawal of the UK from the EU conditional upon the conclusion of a withdrawal agreement:

      https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2017-2019/0202/18202.pdf

      “(1) The condition in this subsection is that a Minister of the Crown has laid before
      each House of Parliament a statement that the United Kingdom has concluded
      an agreement with the European Union under Article 50(2) of the Treaty on
      European Union … ”

      Quite casually they have made a massive transfer of power to the EU by limiting the freedom of the UK to leave, which advocates of the EU often claimed to be the ultimate guarantee of our national sovereignty.

    • Christine
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

      John, it’s imperative that you do a non-aggression pact with The Brexit Party and let them fight the Labour seats.

      The worst thing for this country would be a Corbyn Government. Even worse would be a Labour/SNP coalition. This result would make leaving without a deal a walk in the park.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

      Indeed a Boris/ Farage accomodation is needed seat by seat. It is fairly clear which seats should go which way. The Brexit Party would have won the last by-election but for the Tories splitting the vote. Also deal with the blatant postal vote fraud. Publish the postal vote breakdown in addition to overall vote breakdown in the last elections which will show it up rather clearly I suspect.

    • Andy
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

      The way around Parliamentary sovereignty is dictatorship. You said wanted ANY away round and that is it.

      For someone who voted for Parliamentary sovereignty in 2016, I have to say you do not appear to like Parliamentary sovereignty very much.

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

        That old canard.

        Well. We’ve certainly found out since the 2016 referendum where the problem lies.

        Now.

        Whether you regard them as thick or old at least 40% of the population seething with rage at their Parliament is a crisis and is certainly no endorsement of the EU.

    • Alison
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      Oliver Letwin’s Fixed-Term Parliaments Act has a lot to answer for.

    • Shirley
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

      The extension agreed by May decreed that the UK could not ‘leave’ the EU before 31st Oct UNLESS the UK ratified the awful WA.

      I used apostrophes on ‘leave’ as ratification of the WA would be Remaining as a vassal state, not leaving.

  10. sm
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:41 am | Permalink

    Playing politics is addictive. The adrenaline rush of power, intrigue, influence, point-scoring and possible destruction of enemies, whether political, personal or both, become the overwhelming reasons for continuing these dangerous games.

    UK friends and relatives who have always been politically aware and consider voting a duty have been telling me this week they are so sick of Westminster’s behaviour (regardless of Party allegiance) that they are in despair, and refuse to watch or listen to the news.

    Addictive behaviour leads to destruction, and if all the Parties continue to behave as they are currently doing, they will destroy the UK’s most basic belief in and respect for government by consent.

    • MPC
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      I think you sum up our position very well. It looks likely that we are going to have to get used to permanent EU membership and eventually on ‘standard’ terms (Euro, no opt outs etc). It will be like living in occupied Europe during WW2 – day to day life will go on under a governing class few want. There will be low turnout general elections for a ‘county council’ parliament and insipid left of centre coalitions implementing new EU laws obediently. We thought we were somehow better than that but we’ll just have to carry on as other EU countries have had to following referenda that have one way or another been ignored.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

        MPC

        ” we’ll just have to carry on as other EU countries have had to following referenda that have one way or another been ignored”

        No referenda were ignored. Voters in Ireland and Denmark were listened to and their concerns addressed.

        Another Leave lie. Is there no end to it?

        • Edward2
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

          Keep delaying and keep voting until we get the result we want.
          Having made various new promises to the voters which won’t happen.
          That is the EU version of respecting referendum results.

          Now we see it developing here in the UK

      • Alison
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

        No way.

    • Peter
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

      The majority of comments in this page tend to come from people who are firmly entrenched on one side of the debate or the other. Their minds are not going to be changed, and nor are they going to change anybody else’s mind. I know that I often fall into this category.

      Your comment refreshingly does not take any particular side, and is insightful and incisive. I wish that all comments on this blog were like yours. If they were, then maybe we’d be able to understand each others’ viewpoints a bit better, and we wouldn’t be in this civil war.

      • Peter
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

        Not one of my posts. Seems like multiple posters with the same name are allowed here.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

      SM, I am one of those who cannot be bothered to watch the news anymore. I also cannot be bothered with any debating programmes as they are all biased in one form or another. Take QT last night. I didn’t watch it purely because I didn’t think my blood pressure would stand it and I was right. Our friends watched it and turned off after 10 mins realising how biased against the Leave vote it was. What’s new, and besides, I couldn’t bear to watch Thornberry soaking up the attention and in her new found glory. They are responsible for the ruination of democracy and any form of decency in the UK. I feel for you John, having to go to work amongst them. What needs to be done with them wouldn’t get printed on this page.

  11. J Bush
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    Someone once said the novel ‘1984’ should be sent to all politicians telling them it is not an instruction manual. It would appear they got the book but failed to read the note attached.

    • William1995
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:31 am | Permalink

      Please explain to me how Boris will be able to say that the parliamentary arithmetic will change if you vote for him in a GE if he keeps the same MPs that refuse to support anything other than either remaining or ‘leaving’ on a WA that has been setup to encourage us to ‘rejoin’ in the near future?

      It would be untactful to reappoint these 21. It will setup the quite reasonable argument against the conservatives that no one should vote for them who wants an actual change to the disastrous approach to Brexit of the last three years. As you say the most important thing is to win the GE, not to continue entertaining the fantasy that the hardliners on either side can be simultaneously satisfied. As in any democracy, we should side with the argument that won the vote.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      do you think we will ALL get to love the EU?

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

        Well they certainly have a 2 Minutes Hate session every day. At a picture of an old white lady with a zimmer.

    • Mitchel
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

      The softer totalitarianism of Brave New World is what we have experienced since Blair.

  12. Richard1
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    I suggest finding a way to reverse the expulsion of the 21 Conservatives in the comic days. It’s not a good look for the Conservative Party. To win an election the Conservatives don’t only need to get the 12% or so now voting for the Brexit party

    • Richard1
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

      Coming days! They may be comic as well I suppose

      • Hope
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

        No, they should have been sacked two and half years ago. They knew they were betraying their party, electorate and country. They tried to deceive us they were doing one thing i.e. Leaving, while tiring the country yo the EU so it could not leave at all. Dishonest does not begin to describe Mayhab and her cabinets behaviour.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:52 am | Permalink

      But the 21 will vote against their manifesto promises again.

      • Richard1
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:47 am | Permalink

        I guess they would say they haven’t done so

    • Mark B
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:56 am | Permalink

      Most are retiring anyway and the rest are not Conservatives. They’re not even loyal to their party manifesto or the electorate. Best rid.

      • Fred H
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

        and more who are trying to hide.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

        There are plenty more EU loyalists still infesting the Tory party, both inside and outside Parliament.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:00 am | Permalink

      If the Conservatives reverse any of the expulsions I for one will never vote for them. It will confirm that the Conservatives cannot be trusted with democracy.

      (No one should forget that Major refused a referendum on Maastricht even though all.parties backed Maastricht in the GE. He had no mandate. The Europhile, and last democratic leader of the LibDems, Paddy Ashdown called for a referendum but Major would not support one. Under Johnson the Conservatives are recognising democracy, under Cable then Ask son the Lib Dems are against democracy. If the expulsions are reversed the Conservatives will become undemocratic again.)

      • Caterpillar
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

        Spell check ‘Ask son’ should be Swinson

        • hefner
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

          So, still unable to switch off “Predictive text” on your device?

          • Caterpillar
            Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

            Doh…Doh…

      • Julie Williams
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:27 am | Permalink

        Agreed.
        If it wasn’t so important I’d find Labour’s refusal of a General Election and new found support for the WA hilarious as well, as it is, I’m just bitterly disappointed with the lot of them.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

        Someone should remind Mr Gauke that the UK govt could have.sovereignty to pursue Conservative or other policies after leaving (he needs to reflect on what he is saying and his ethics). Someone needs to remind Major and those in his cabinet (Clarke) that they did not act democratically in ’92, unlike PM Johnson who is at least attempting to.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

        The LibDem modus operandi is to demand a referendum until such time as there is a realistic chance of getting one, when they back off.

      • Richard1
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:46 am | Permalink

        Is that right? I had forgotten it if so. Indeed there should have been a referendum on Maastricht. And Lisbon (though had Maastricht been blocked we wouldn’t have had Lisbon).

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

        Caterpillar. I agree. I could never vote for the Tory party again knowing that they 21 would renege on their promises again. Boris must get true Brexiteers in the party as that is the only way I will vote Tory. Looks like Brexit Party it might be.

    • Jagman84
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

      The current voting intention polls suggest that you are mistaken. Try googling “electoral calculus” and educate yourself. The BP vote only comes into play when consistently over 17%. Only when the 3 legacy parties are all in the low to mid 20s does current support level win seats and have some bearing on the overall result.

    • Richard416
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      If the 21 would have supported their government, they would not be the 21.

    • Christine
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:44 am | Permalink

      Doing this will show weakness and puts us back where we are now. Better to replace them with candidates that agree with the Tory manifesto. I expect he will threaten to sack the ERG if they don’t vote for the putrid Withdrawal Agreement. At least they have the option of joining the Brexit Party.

    • Bob
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

      Boris could have avoided all the unpleasantness by declaring “no contest” on the Robin Tilbrook case.

  13. Peter van LEEUWEN
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    A curious unity in the UK:
    * The PM, as he stated, doesn’t want an election,
    * The people don’t want an election,
    * Now the opposition doesn’t want an election – yet.

    The government can seek agreement with part of the opposition for most of its plans.
    That is how minority governments in other countries sometimes operate as well.
    For Brexit it also could find common ground with the opposition, on how to proceed.
    A few months on 3 years (election) delay is not a catastrophe.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      1) continued uncertainty is continued damage
      2) the EU won’t budge if any weakness from UK
      3) May already negotiated with Corbnyn to no avail
      4) There was a referendum giving the decision to leave – democracy (the anti-democratic Lib Dems are explicitly against the democratic result).

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

        @Caterpillar:
        IMHO it is a fallacy to think that the EU would budge for a no-deal Brexit. A clear case of not understanding the EU. It cannot give up on its principles. There is even a chance that the EU wouldn’t accept a request for another extension, which then would cause a no-deal brexit by default.

        I don’t think that referendums, according to e.g. Thatcher the instruments of dictators and demagogues, and most certainly those flooded with now publishes “dark ads”, can qualify as “democracy”, however much you may like the outcome of this particular one.

        • Caterpillar
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

          PvL,

          Re paragraph 2: It flows from the UK having had previous referenda for transfer of constitutional powers, and Major not doing this for Maastricht Treaty. (And of course Cameron saying result would be implemented).

          Re paragraph 1: hence plan B of just leaving. The WA effectively gives away more powers as during the transition (even ignoring the backstop) the UK is an unrepresented rule taker.

          • Peter van LEEUWEN
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

            @Caterpillar:
            Re paragraph 1: Uncertainty also affects business on the continent and I have read continental opinions to just calling it a day (granting no more extensions), which de facto means “no-deal”. Personally I think that wiser continental minds will prevail.

            But we live in a new reality: The UK, apparently already in control of its own laws has just made another one: “Going about the divorce more resposibly”. To me personally, it means that wiser minds have already prevailed in the sovereign UK parliament.
            Next should be: having a serious look together at new (non-technical) proposals that have recently been put forward concerning the no border border with N. Ireland. Maybe there could be some hope there.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:36 am | Permalink

      The two main parties in the UK care only about getting into government. They will oppose each other for ridiculous reasons, resorting to virtue signalling, fake indignation and even hysteria to make their opposition points.
      In reality, it seems that many of them are in fact LibDems, and are largely in agreement with each other, though they dare not say so.
      They may be conservatives, but how many would sit on their high horse and look down their nose at the likes of me? They may be labour, but how many of them have experienced a day of honest work?

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

        @Dave Andrews: of course both main parties want to have government power, and they are your duly elected representatives. The current government has a clear minority in parliament and will HAVE to work with the opposition.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      The people most certainly WANT an election.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

        @Fred H: Not according to your current PM (2-9-2019, address in front of no 10 Downing street)

        • Fred H
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

          PETER….you really don’t understand politics nor the English, do you!

          • Peter van LEEUWEN
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

            @Fred H: who knows, maybe I don’t understand!
            I’m just confronting you with your government’s statements (PM address) made four days ago!
            Have you seen a trusted poll all over the UK since 2 September 2019 with the result that the people want a new elections?

    • IanT
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      No, not a catastrophe Peter – just more pointless delay – which Remainers hope will eventually lead to us giving up and just staying in the Union. However, Pandoras Box has been opened and that won’t happen now.

      Let’s just leave and get this done. That wouldn’t be a catastrophe either…the real damage is being done by all the uncertainty.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

        @IanT: I too think that the UK leaving the EU is better. With a deal to which the EU can agree would be so much better, e.g. for England. Why not go for one country (UK) – two systems?

        • IanT
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

          Better for whom Peter?

          For all the talk of our “our Friends in Europe” that is really not the case. Just like Mr Trump – the EU has its own interests at heart and will always put their own interests first given the chance – as should we.

          The EU negotiators certainly got a wide open goal with T.May and P.Hammond in charge. I’m very sure they are also perfectly happy to see the Remainers in Parliament just throwing in the towel without even trying to get a good deal for the UK. I suspect many will feel that we are now being sold down the river in terms of what should be possible.

    • oldwulf
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      @Peter van Leeuwen. Of course, I can’t speak for the whole of the UK, but my perception is that “the people” ie “most people” DO want an election.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

        @oldwulf: Not according to your current PM (2-9-2019, address in front of no 10 Downing street). As for the people, having waited 3 years, 2 extra months won’t make that much difference. Elections are pretty unavoidable now, unless the PM starts serious and pragmatic negotiations instead of trying to run down the clock, which caused this parliamentary uproar.

        • Oldwulf
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

          @Peter van Leeuwen. That may have been Mr Johnsons opinion on 2 Sept but, after the recent poll, it may not be his opinion now ?

    • rose
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:26 am | Permalink

      The Opposition do not want the government to succeed so they are not going to coalesce with it. Last time we had a coalition,both parties wanted to save the country from bankruptcy. In the case of the Confidence and Supply arrangement with the DUP, again, both parties have a common purpose, to get us out of the EU in one piece. But there is no common purpose with the SNP, Liberals, Green, and Labour. They do not want to get us out in one piece.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

        @rose: Opposition parties usually don’t want what the government wants and all have the purpose of winning for themselves, just as the Tories do. Only now the opposition parties work together and have a majority. That is parliamentary democracy in a sovereign parliament.

        • IanT
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

          We will see how long that lasts when it comes to actually wielding power. If the Lib Dems support Corbyn they will be jumping off a cliff…

    • Peter van LEEUWEN
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:32 am | Permalink

      P.S. For an elecltion the (sovereign) parliament should determine the conditions.
      As long as the oppostion holds together, they will be the majority in parliament to do so.
      It is for te government to try and split the oppostion.

    • Oggy
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:43 am | Permalink

      Peter,
      The people DO want an election.
      Besides they have spent over 3 years looking for compromise and what have they compromised on ? – nothing.
      You seem to be missing the point here, the opposition don’t want to leave the EU as per the referendum result so there is no compromise to be had.

    • NickC
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      PvL, What you miss out (deliberately?) is that the people don’t want an election because we believe the existing MPs should do as they’re told and take us out of the EU.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

        @Oggy: I seem to remember that under your last government (which had a majority) the rebellion and lack of compromise with the government really came from within the Tory party (e.g. the ERG group). Without that you would already have been out of the EU because the May government did have a majority plus the support of some rebelling Labour MPs.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

        @NickC: That is not how a parliamentary democracy is supposed to work. All MPs are duly elected as your representatives and should do what is in the national (and their constituents’ ) interest.

        • NickC
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

          PvL, Except when that Parliament legally institutes a national binary Referendum and promises to implement the result.

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      Hang Parliament!!!!!!!
      This Country is not their plaything.

      The people should be allowed a General Election.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

        @’None of the above’: As I understand it, you will get an election (unless the PM surprises everyone with a new deal). It is just a matter of timing.

    • APL
      Posted September 7, 2019 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

      PvL: “* The people don’t want an election,”

      I’d like an election, because I would take great pleasure seeing the ‘Change UK’ lot and the 21 Tory backstabbers falling swiftly into obscurity.

      The only thing to stick in my craw, would be the knowledge, that they are all going to get a £50,000 golden ‘goodbuy’, when they lose their seats.

      Talk about feathering your own nest.

  14. Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    As with their ignoring the referendum vote they again do not want to listen to the people.

    Ps I see Gove is claiming he would support Mays deal as a compromise. No. It was a sell out. Is that an indication of current Cabinet thinking?

    • Bob
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      ” Is that an indication of current Cabinet thinking?”

      It’s been the plan all along, many of the existing Cabinet already voted for May’s deal, including Boris, but we need a little theater prior to the final climb down, to make it look like they tried.

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:56 am | Permalink

      Gove shouldn’t be offering his own view. He should talk Cabinet – or shut up.

    • Andy
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:28 am | Permalink

      May’s deal is Brexit. I have been telling you this for almost a year now. Have you not realised yet? Honestly.

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

        I don’t remember Hard Remain being an option (the WA.)

        Vote Remain get Remain.

        Vote Leave get Hard Remain.

        Your EU is truly vile.

      • NickC
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

        Ancdy, So you gloat about your own ignorance for a whole year now? Explain how remaining in a “single customs territory” with the EU constitutes leaving the EU’s customs territory.

    • Simeon
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

      There will have to be a change of government for the legislation currently passing to make it on to statute. I might believe BJ is a fraud and a liar, but even I find it difficult to believe that he would be stupid enough to seek royal assent. But someone will have to do it, and whoever it is will be the leader of the new government. The alternative, a no deal Brexit, will simply not be allowed to happen.

      We can but hope that the Brexit party collapses the Conservative vote. The latter are simply not fit to govern.

      • Simeon
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:15 am | Permalink

        Apologies. This was a reply to another poster.

        But to your point, I think BJ all along wanted some kind of fig leaf for the backstop, so that the ‘amended’ WA could pass. At this point, I would only be slightly surprised if, to ‘save Brexit’, BJ brought back the WA as is. He voted for it before in similar circumstances. It’s not that much of a stretch to think he’d do it again.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

      Nig1. I just hope if Boris resigns then we don’t end up with Gove as he will sign away everything. I don’t trust him an inch and it is all because of his back stabbing ways that we are in this mess.

      • rose
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

        Gove is already saying he would vote again for the dreaded DWA. Richard Graham is positively touting it and there will be others, only too eager to dance to the EU and Labour’s tune.

  15. J Bush
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    I get the impression these people in Parliament disagree with the statement that “politicians don’t get to choose which votes they respect”

    • Andy
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

      Indeed politicians do not get to choose which votes they respect.

      2016 made it clear we should leave the EU with a deal.

      2017 made it clear that hard Brexit had no mandate.

      So deliver the soft Brexit you have a (sort of) mandate for and you’re done.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        Thank you Andy, for the most concise summary of the position that I have read to date.

        • graham1946
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

          and the most inaccurate

      • NickC
        Posted September 7, 2019 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

        Andy, 2016 made it clear we should leave the EU. With, or without, a “deal”. There is no legal requirement for a deal (a WA) – quite the reverse as the EU’s own TEU Art50 makes clear. Are you Remains completely incapable of addressing the facts?

  16. RichardM
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    It’s blindingly obvious why they turned it down. The MP’s are putting country ahead of party, as they should do. Only some Tories and rabid no-dealers pretend to not undersrand this.
    Their overriding aim is to avoid a no-deal brexit. If accepted prior to 31st, Johnson would then have the opportunity to change it, and once again shut down parliament end of October so we crash out without Johnson ever attempting any negotiations with the EU

    • James1
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:14 am | Permalink

      The current mess and acrimony is an additional reason to leave the failed EU pipe dream. Not that any other reason was needed.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:16 am | Permalink

      They are against the democratic referendum result full stop.

      If they were against crashing out they would have held May and Hammomd to account in ensuring preparations were made for leaving. They did not do this.

      The overriding aim should be to restore democracy, this does not mean dragging on or a WA that can go on for ever, maintains UK subservience in some areas and at the minimum has a law taking transition period.

    • Julie Williams
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

      Corbyn putting Country over politics, no way, it’s his lousy ratings due to his pathetic response to Brexit which is stopping him whilst the centre ground MPs want to avoid deselection, they are still hoping to get their party back.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

      They had a deal, they had May’s deal, which they voted down. So don’t give us this bull that the Remainer Parliament wants a deal , they don’t , they want no Brexit , and they are prepared to tear apart our democracy and constitution to achieve it, but then that isn’t much of a surprise, for their whole EU project was anti democratic coup against the people.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      Conceding everything the EU demands putting our country first ?

      That’s what taking No Deal away is.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

        The European Union has demanded nothing whatsoever.

        It is the UK which is asking it for a deal, not the other way around. The European Union has done no more than to declare, after careful analysis, certain UK proposals as incompatible with its Treaty obligations and with its undertakings re the Good Friday Agreement.

        Has it?

        • Edward2
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

          You are right for once.
          The EU never wanted to do a deal which might be anywhere near acceptable to the UK.
          That’s why we need to just leave.

        • graham1946
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

          No 39 billion is due then? That’s a relief, we can spend that at home.
          No 500 odd pages of tying us in? That’s good too. Lets leave without a ‘deal’.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:49 am | Permalink

            There’s nothing whatsoever stopping that from the European Union side.

          • NickC
            Posted September 7, 2019 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

            Martin, As I have long suspected, which is now demonstrated, the EU is so nasty and power mad that it will not treat a neighbour fairly. There is no reason, other than EU intransigence, why we should not be as free of the EU as New Zealand is, with an agreement to that effect. You know as well as I do that the EU has not, and will not, agree that.

        • anon
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

          Boris Johnson, should instigate direct democracy laws on a matter of confidence All MP’s in areas with leave majorities who are actively preventing the UK leaving by default as envisaged under article 50 and prior UK law must be forced to seek support from the electorate.

          All MP’s should be subject to recall for “breach of manifesto pledges” or indeed campaigning pledges made when seeking election. It is a simple matter of trust and the best arbiters are the public.

          Any MP leaving a party should be subject to automatic re-selection by another “in reserve party” candidate, whilst a by-election is organized.

          The EU has acted contrary to its own treaty. There is no good faith. The EU is a bad actor and is acting to prevent losing control of the UK.

          The UK & EU problem is a UK parliament which lacks any democratic legitimacy in that, it wishes the UK to remain primarily, under the control of the EU institutions and law.

          In defiance of the referendum & democracy.

    • Sam Duncan
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      This would be the EU which has repeatedly said that the Withdrawal Agreement, which neither side in Parliament has found acceptable, is not open for renegotiation, correct? The EU which, since the Prime Minister’s declaration that we leave on the 31st October come what may, has shown signs of softening that stance?

      It now has absolutely no reason to do so. It need not change a single word, while the event which it has declared a disaster for itself on a par with earthquakes and hurricanes, can be delayed indefinitely. And the 17.4 million people who voted to leave its jurisdiction can go hang.

      Hurrah for democracy.

      I am absolutely not a “rabid no-dealer”, but I’m finding it very hard to understand the thinking behind this determination to destroy the strongest bargaining-chip we hold; indeed, the only one which has made even the slightest dent in the EU’s steadfast intransigence. The overriding aim is to leave the EU. That’s what we voted for. That’s what every MP elected as a Conservative in 2017 promised to do. So if it’s not flat refusal to accept the will of the majority or simple dumb idiocy, what is it?

    • tim
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

      Parliament’s legal intention for the UK to leave the EU is not conditional upon a withdrawal agreement
      no deal allows the UK government to scrap thousands of import tariffs on non-EU imports, which will reduce prices; to save £39billion; to regain control of fishing and to increase the level of democracy in the country.”
      now stop being stupid!

    • Oggy
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

      ‘It’s blindingly obvious why they turned it down. The MP’s are putting country ahead of party,’
      Absolute nonsense they are putting the EU before the UK. What I saw of the debate, opposition parties made it quite clear it’s not the so called ‘no deal’ they are wanting to prevent, it is Brexit.
      It’s all just a sham.

    • Richard1
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:49 am | Permalink

      It is sophistry. They are against Brexit. That’s fair enough but they should be honest about it.

    • BJC
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

      Richard M

      In life, we don’t automatically stop doing things because they’re considered risky or dangerous, we seek ways to make them as safe as possible, but we still do them or we’d never leave the house. There are even people who deliberately throw themselves off a “cliff-edge” to experience the euphoria of, say, parachuting or abseiling (objective). They mitigate the risks by making sure they have the correct equipment and that it’s fit for purpose. If the equipment is no longer suitable for the user’s needs it’s binned.

      Compare this to Brexit (the obective) where the bravery and potential sacrifice of the people (the user) in stepping into the unknown will have returned sovereign powers to our Parliament (the correct equipment) and with it the authority to do whatever it takes to help cushion and mitigate the risks.

      Sadly, those MPs who don’t possess the professional competence to help achieve our objectives will no longer be considered “fit for purpose” and will be “binned” by the user at the next GE. I suggest this is a far more likely reason for turning down a GE, although they’re only delaying the inevitable.

    • rose
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

      Their over riding aim is not to avoid a no deal brexit but to avoid Brexit altogether. To that end they are destroying our democracy and constitution, endangering our social stability and our economy, and all for what? Certainly not to put the country first but to abolish it.

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

      Then ask the people. Persuade your ‘Friends’ to accept a General Election.

      If you are right, your friends will win and we can have as many extensions as the EUs patience will permit. If you are wrong…………?

  17. Roy Grainger
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    The SNP will want an election before the court case involving their former leader Alex Salmond starts as that will focus unwanted press coverage on them as it progresses (I’m not prejuding the outcome), there is a hearing in November scheduled. My guess is Corbyn will agree to an election in early November, in that without a Conservative/BP pact he may win.

  18. Frances Truscott
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    Sir john media is hiding the eus often stated plans for imposing closer union. Please find a way of getting media to speak about the consequences of remaining,banking union, the ftt,the euro, lost opt outs, enforced bailouts etc etc. There would not be a problem if people were told about the Eu. They keep on saying these things yet media doesn’t report much of it.

    • Sharon Jagger
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      I’ve just discovered a tome of a book entitled The Great Deception written by Christopher booker and Richard North.

      It was first published in 2003 and updated in in 2005 and again in 2016: but there has never been any reviews done of the book because using years of researching millions of documents, they lay bare the great deletion that has been conducted by the EU since before it was the EU.

      A copy was given free to every MP here and in the European Parliament courtesy of a businessman – Paul Sykes. The question has to be asked if said recipients ever even got to see the book!

      The book highlights that a British civil servant Arthur salter was very much involved ,alongside Jean Monnet in its inception.

      “Europe’s power is easy to miss. Like an invisible hand it operates through the shell of traditional political structures. The British House of Commons, British Law Courts and the British civil servants are still here, but they have become agents of the EU, implementing European law. This is no accident. By creating common standards that are implemented through national institutions, Europe can take over countries without necessarily becoming a target for hostility” Mark Leaonard, Centre for European Reform 2005

      There you have it!

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

        A gentleman called Winston Churchill was very closely involved in its founding too.

        There you have it!

        • graham1946
          Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

          Not quite. He suggested a United States of Europe, but not that we should be part of it.

          Churchill said ‘We are with Europe but not of it’. He said we, the US, the USSR and the Commonwealth are friends of Europe but never did he say we should be part of it. He urged a Franco-German partnership to lead Europe. That is all. The rest is misunderstood.

          There you have it!

    • Bob
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      “find a way of getting media to speak about the consequences of remaining”

      Yes, the government seem reluctant to debunk Project Fear propaganda. Jacob Rees-Mogg tried it recently on the medical supplies scare story and was forced to make an apology.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

      Agree entirely.
      But it makes one think doesn’t it?
      These things are in plain sight yet not discussed or broadcast.
      We have had two PMs “ trying” to get us out of the EU….yet apparently they have NO CLUE about parliamentary procedure. No ability to predict what tricks the opposition might pull and moreover no idea how to respond. No means of punishing those who break ancient rules. A Feast of Fools invited into Westminster to confuse us all.
      They wring their impotent hands over the destruction of the “ democracy” they so kindly bestowed upon us.
      Not to forget THE EU ARMY ( under various other names) which seems to be fully underway with UK imput.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

      As I understand it, a deal , or certainly May’s deal, would have left us obligated to fund EU bailouts, with it suggested this could amount to a £200 billion liability.

      As to the media omissions we are getting a lot of that, it’s almost fake news by omission. John Major takes the Government to court for proroguing Parliament, but they don’t report on his hypocrisy regarding it. NewsNight plays clips of Conservatives saying they wouldn’t support proroguing Parliament , but the BBC omits the rider that this was in regards to proroguing Parliament over the 31st Oct. Jacob Rees Mogg makes an important speech in Parliament against the surrender Bill, but all they talk about is his sitting posture in Parliament. Any pretence of impartiality has been dispensed with.

  19. Ian!
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Amused, here in sunny Wokingham a big political demonstration was organised by the LiberaDemocrats outside the town hall because of Boris letting MP’s have time off for conference season. 60 demonstrators were involved, mainly children under 10 holding up banners.

    Most of us would call that exploitation of minors.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

      and look at the photos – the adults are Libdem councillors or failed wannabe ones. The public passed by laughing….

  20. Ian!
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Never lose sight the EU are our rulers and democracy is about voting and voting again until the right answer is given.

    This UK Parliament are its puppets and will eventually do the right thing

  21. Dave Andrews
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:29 am | Permalink

    Boris should not take for granted his lead in the polls. Do not underestimate the capability of Corbyn in a campaign – there are many who will be beguiled by him.
    Boris needs to promote the Tory party as one which will honour the referendum to convince the Brexit group to vote for him and his party. Never mind the Remain group, as their numbers are too small (in terms of Tory support) to rob him of victory.
    The Tory party needs to come up with a clear, convincing and comprehensive election manifesto, not the muddle of the last one, as the majority of their potential votes will come from people who care little or nothing about whether or not we are in the EU.

  22. oldtimer
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Your headline asks “Who wants an election?”. My answer is I want a election to get rid of this useless parliament.

    The result will be unpredictable because, as you have frequently pointed out, the old two party divide has fragmented. The recent election for the European parliament illustrated that clearly. The chances of another hung Parliament must be high. But at least it would have the potential for a new dynamic and balance of forces not to mention the selection of a new speaker who respects the need for impartiality in his/her conduct in office.

  23. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:36 am | Permalink

    The main opposition parties hide behind the phoney argument that they don’t want an election until yet another extension to article 50 has been sought. This is disingenuous because they all really want to reverse the referendum result and keep the UK in the EU. The Liberal “Democrats” have a leader who says she wants another referendum but won’t accept the result if it is not to remain in the EU. The SNP leader, with no trace of embarrassment, speaks of upholding the wishes of the people of Scotland in EU referendum whilst campaigning continually to ignore the wishes of those same Scots over Scotland’s membership of the UK. Finally, Labour has had a shifting policy, confirmed by Emily Thornberry on Question Time last night, as the nonsensical proposition of negotiating a deal with the EU which they would then put to the country in another referendum, together with the option to remain in the EU, and they would campaign to reject their deal and support remain!
    This must be one of if not the worst parliaments in history.

  24. Mike Wilson
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    What happens if Boris simply refuses to ask the EU for an extension? Could he be arrested and stand accused of breaking the law? Can a law exist that compels one individual to do something particular? Surely laws are based on the concept of ‘Thou shalt NOT do something’

  25. BCL
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    The remainers fear that a new Conservative government, elected on a manifesto declaring its policy clearly, coming into power in mid October will take us out of the EU on 31st October and so they seek to prevent it! They seek to prevent a government doing what it said in its manifesto it was going to do. How can anyone regard that as democratic.
    In any event, even if they succeed in getting yet another extension, if the Conservatives are re-elected on 1st November, we’ll be back where we are now but with a majority (purged of most of the traitors) that will enable us to leav , perhaps on the 31st January and perhaps on the 2nd November. Of course, we might be under a Corbyn regime but if we are, the lack of Brexit will be the least of our worries.

  26. John Sheridan
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    I want an election. Sadly, I live in a Labour safe seat so my vote is unlikely to tip the balance. It’s at times like this I wish we had some form of proportional representation.

  27. Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    I was expecting more from the PM’s speech yesterday – He made the expected points, but he didn’t hammer home the severity of the situation….

    He needs to make it crystal clear… what the remainers have done with this bill and their real intent… Or perhaps this is one for JRM to present in a nationwide broadcast with Boris… with suitable graphics…. Time they took the gloves off
    There are too many that still do not understand the full implications of what is going on, and that needs to be corrected.
    A better informed public can only be an advantage.

  28. Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    TBH I would have expected Boris to have anticipated this move by the remainers and have had a strategy to handle it …..

    If Boris’s sleeves are empty, then yes, we should have a GE

  29. Javelin
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    The Conservatives need to announce they have one and only one policy then call vote of no confidence.

    If they don’t get a GE they can claim the House voted for their one single policy of Brexit. They can then shut down Parliament and deliver on their one single policy.

  30. Cheshire Girl
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    I don’t really want an election, because I’m afraid that Labour might win it. They are obviously hoping so.

    What a disaster that would be for the Country.

  31. Sharon Jagger
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    It has been suggested that the Benn-Burt bill (aka Stop Brexit) which orders the PM to ask for another Brexit extension…needs royal consent. It has been said that conducting foreign policy is part of the Royal Prerogative and so needs to have Royal Consent as the bill affects the Royal Prerogative.

    However, the Speaker of the House needs to decide whether it does needs HM’s Consent, and he has ruled it does not. LSE believe this to be unconstitutional as it usurps the rights of her Majesty, and arguably could be described as a coup d’etat.

    If the bill becomes law the EU could potentially grant a 100 years extension which any future PM could nothing about. (Which I thought was against British law, trying the hands of a future PM)

    Why is this not being spoken about ?

  32. Pat
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    And therein lies the problem. Boris’s battlespace preparation has been pretty good. Can he force the battle?

  33. Lifelogic
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Question Time actually had 3 to 3 remainers to leavers for once. Well actually 4/3 as on the BBC the chairman or presenter is always a remainer. Still it must be a first for the BBC propaganda outfit – it is usually 4/1, 5/1 or even 5/0 for pro remain.

    What dire remainers they were too with their endless daft interuptions – Emily Thornberry MP, Layla Moran MP and Ian Blackford MP. Pathetic, anti-democratic quislings all frightened of an election. The dire Ian Blackford could hardly let any leaver say more than 2 words before each interuption. Let us hope the SNP are not the tail wagging the Corbyn dog post the election!

    There peope are trying desperately to defeat the will of the people – while pathetically pretending they are not doing this.

  34. libertarian
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Dear Sir John

    I read with growing alarm on social media yesterday a report sanctioned and indeed contributed to by the BMA, Dr John Nichols, the Head of the EU Health Commission and the Chair of the BMA that some people may die prematurely in UK hospitals should the UK leave the EU on a WTO deal. This will be due to delays in processing paperwork and regulatory issues at the border causing urgent drugs to be delayed and potential paperwork problems with supply chains.

    Please can you ask in the house Why is the European Union threatening to impose rules that they currently dont have that will endanger the lives of British Citizens and further more why are institutions such as the BMA supporting the EU in making this happen

    The potential deaths of UK citizens is entirely down to the European Union as UK borders and customs have NO need to delay or impose other rules on drugs entering the country

    Thank you

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

      Could you ask Dr Nichols how many might die per month as a result of leaving the EU, and how many currently die per month due to NHS negligence?

  35. A.Sedgwick
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    BJ is giving the impression first voiced by Gove, now going for May4, that the law could be ignored. Hopefully he will, perhaps take a holiday until Nov 1.

  36. Gordon Nottingham
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    Has Nigel Farage passed ANY comments YET?

    • graham1946
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

      Yes, he has offered to assist Boris if he will just commit to a clean Brexit, but Boris seems intent on re-heating the May surrender Treaty.

  37. Sea Warrior
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    So what will Boris do next week? He must, surely, ask The Queen NOT to give her assent to the No 6 bill. And perhaps stop all payments to the EU.

  38. Richard416
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    So long as the government holds executive powers, it should use them to the full, and get us out of the e.u. now, in the national interest, before it makes leaving impossible (as it almost certainly will), and deprives us of our monarchy and constitution (what’s left of it). No doubt we need a general election to clear out parliament, although there is no guarantee; we could get another lot of shouty teenagers and former teachers. Whilst you hold the cards you should play them to carry out your manifesto pledge and the Queen’s speech 2017.

  39. Iain Moore
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    It is the Queen’s prerogative power to negotiate and sign treaties, it’s the Executive’s right to dictate spending. I do not understand why we should accept Bercow rewriting our constitutional settlement on his claim that he has ‘taken advice’ though there has been no proof of that and certainly no published advice, as to the legality of it, for the surrender Bill contravenes both . Vernon Bogdanor sounded doubtful about the probity of it on the radio. In justifying his stance Bercow seemed to suggest that what went on in the Commons was separate from the law . That can’t be right, for the Remainers have proven that the Law can dictate what takes place in Parliament, like A50 , and Governments have been taken to court for ‘illegal ‘ laws.

    Why should Prime Minister Boris be bound by an illegal law?

  40. Mick
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Bring on a General Election after watching QT last night with the labour woman saying if they were negotiating a deal with the Eu then they would still vote to remain in the Eu talk about double Dutch what flaming planet are these people on, I tell you what come the General Election the people up north aren’t as gullible as the southerners and we will make the Labour Party pay dearly for there betrayal of the working class, Mr Johnson as no choice but to come to some deal with the Brexit party to win a Election as the labour/libs/greens/welch/independents will have with themselves

    • graham1946
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

      Go for it Mick. 63 percent of constituencies are leavers and only 37 percent remainers, that’s why they don’t want an election. The GE will be by constituency, not national. I’m afraid Boris won’t do a deal with Nigel – for some unknown reason he is of the old Toffs school who think the Tories have a divine right to rule. He is getting a rude awakening, but will it be soon enough?

  41. The Prangwizard
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    Traitor May was the catalyst for all this, as an agent for and servant of the EU.

  42. BOF
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    What is clear, is that the coming election will be a contest between Leave and Remain.

    Success or failure will rest on how well each side comes together and forms alliances to maximise their chances of winning in regions and seats.

    We have the misfortune in Brecon and Radnorshire of a Libdem MP in spite of Leave parties having a comfortable overall majority in the recent by election.

  43. Andy
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    El Presidente out campaigning yesterday in front of uniformed police officers stood to attention.

    The Brexit police state is nearing.

    • graham1946
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

      That should suit you as you want anyone with any opinion not yours locked up.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

      Andy ….good news at last. HURRAH.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

      You’re the one always talking of arresting people.

  44. BOF
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    OT I sincerely hope that the Prime Minister does not go back on the removal of the whip for all those MP’s as the Tories are likely to lose a very large body of support as a result. One only has to read comment from conservative supporters to understand this.

  45. JoolsB
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    What worries me John is if vote leaving England votes Conservative and yet because we in England, the only nation in the western world denied our own parliament and who therefore have to seek the support of the rest of the UK to get the Government we vote for, have a Marxist/SNP Government foist on us against our will denying us Brexit and seeing England as nothing more than a ca$h cow for the benefit of the rest of the UK, even more so than the current Government does.

    Considering the UK Parliament is becoming more and more English only matters, (not that you ever hear the word England coming out of their mouths) we have enough SNP UK MPs already interfering and voting on English health, English education, English tuition fees, English social care, English policing, English housing, English transport etc. etc. without them or you having any say whatsoever on those matters for their own constituents in Scotland.

    As someone who purports to speak for England yet does not believe England should be treated as equals in this union, ie. have our own parliament with equal funding, if the above scenario should happen, as it did in the Blair years when the Tories won the popular vote in England yet England was governed by a Scots Labour cabal who inflicted all sorts of things on England such as tuition fees which they wouldn’t countenance for their own, will you and your colleagues ‘representing’ English seats finally say enough is enough and demand England is finally allowed a voice and the same rights to self determination as the other nations in this so called union? i.e. an English Parliament?

    I know an English Parliament would mean a huge cull in the current number of UK MPs which is why they oppose one but the alternative is England continues to be ignored and kept in the EU against it’s will. Which is more important?

    Sorry John, I know you do sometimes speak up for England but not enough and your colleagues squatting in English seats are a disgrace and totally silent on the matter. Sajid Javid spoke this week about the police, education, FE, health and social care and not once did he mention the word England even though he knew full well his proposals only applied to England. And that could be a Marxist/SNP Government making those proposals if they get their way. This is why England must be given the same powers as the rest of the UK to decide our own Government and not have one chosen for us by the rest of the UK who unlike England do not have to abide by many of the laws that Government makes.

    No doubt this criticism will stay in moderation .

    • JoolsB
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply: you didn’t let me down John – you kept me in moderation. It is people like me who speaks for England and England will be treated equally one day. No thanks to 650 self serving members of the UK Parliament.

  46. Andy
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    It is easy to see where the Tory party has gone wrong.

    It has sidelined sensible political giants like Ken Clarke, Michael Heseltine, Dominic Grieve, Philip Hammond, Nicholas Soames, John Major.

    And it has replaced them with ranting half-wits like Baker, Bridgen, Bone, Dorries, Jenkyns, Mogg, Patel, Raab and Francois.

    UKIP has always been a perfectly good home for these nutters.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

      Why are you bothered you would never vote for them anyway Andy.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Hows the centrist party you joined fairing? Are they off zero in the polls yet? That political giant Sourbry is your saviour i guess

  47. Andrew S
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Already the tory remain thinks it can pressure Boris into letting the rebels off, as if all is forgiven. EU sellout John Major leading the charge, the weasel Gove now ready to sign up to May’s atrocious deal. Westminster tories going back to form. You will be thrown out by Brexit Party voters if any capitulation. The expelling of the 21 rebels and dumping of tory remain is part of the blood sacrifice tories have to pay if they want to get back in to power.
    The sacking of this sham parliament is a fitting end to its miserable existence. Truthfully, tories need Brexit Party votes to win a general election, that has to be based on leaving the EU in all its forms. Even after that, expect the Brexit Party to hound the establishment parties and bring about reformation of people power, huge reduction of power of the two westminster cabals, pathetic partisan libdem/labour house of lords, massive downscaling of the BBC, end to elites lording it over us ordinary ‘common’ folk.

  48. villaking
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Sir John,
    Please don’t be disingenuous. You know perfectly well why Labour does not want an election – yet. We also know why Boris didn’t want an election – until now.

  49. A.Sedgwick
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Just watched the Emily and Fiona show – wish I had not bothered.

  50. I'm off!
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    I’ve been looking at real and not tourist area property prices in smaller EU nations. Muck cheap.
    If many of we Brexiteers go and live in these small nations, we will be able to elect all local Councillors, spread our wings over the people generally living in those localities, influence their voting intentions, provide them with profitable work in our businesses and make our presence felt in their local trade union and local cultural entities, elect our own MPs or those dependent on our support, and vote to leave the EU after we have subverted their national political parties and media.
    Will it work? Well that kind of thing has never been tried before. Who knows?
    And, write our own books and self-publish if necessary and distribute them even if they be free of charge!

    • hefner
      Posted September 7, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      Or …, or …, or after a few months realize that there are other ways of life than the British one (if such a thing actually exists), and after a while, maybe getting involved in local politics to try to change/improve the host community within its traditional framework. Your proposal, I’m off, is really typical 19-th c English, if you really think you are bringing Civilization to these continental “deprived” countries.
      And you ‘might’ have to learn the intricacies of the language of that smaller EU nation you’ll want to convert to the beauties of the British spirit. Good luck!

  51. Kathleen P
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    I find I am in a state of cold fury at the sight of this Parliament. I do not find them honourable in defying the democratically determined decision to leave the EU. I want rid of them. They can play games and deny me my vote for now in a General Election but come the day I want to see the smile wiped off their smug faces when the results are declared.

    As for now, they seem intent on inflicting maximum humiliation on Boris Johnson. They seem to delight in it, not seeing how that plays both at home and abroad. I thought the years of national humiliation had come to a close with the demise of Theresa May’s Premiership but it continues. I find the glee with which the media are reporting Jo Johnson’s resignation appalling and they seem to be displaying a derangement syndrome akin to that suffered by President Trump.

    It seems that the Government has withdrawn any further opposition to the Bill going through the Lords and has agreed it will pass. I would have thought that a deal would have been done with Opposition parties such that in return, the Government could have its General Election at a time of its choosing. Have they been cuckolded? Have they given much to receive little in return? I cannot believe it but I won’t be surprised if it turns out like that. The Opposition parties have shown themselves to be utterly self-serving throughout this long process.

    As to what should happen next, I don’t want our PM to be humiliated once again at the EU Council. I don’t want to hand over yet more control to them. I hope he calls in sick and misses it or finds he has lost his voice or for reasons of national emergency he cannot attend, anything but surrender.

  52. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    From Monday Boris Johnson will have no honourable choice other than resignation.

    Once the opposition’s Bill has become the law the Prime Minister will be required to do what Boris Johnson has promised he will never do, ask for a further extension to our EU membership, and it follows that Boris Johnson must cease to be Prime Minister.

    He could break his word, or he could break the law, or he could escape from that dilemma by resigning from the public office to which the law applies:

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2017-2019/0202/18202.pdf

    “(4) The Prime Minister must seek to obtain from the European Council an extension of the period under Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union … ”

    If ducking out like that, and probably allowing Jeremy Corbyn his chance to sort out the mess that he has done much to create, seems a dishonourable rather an honourable course of action, then I suggest that it should be judged in comparison to the action of a previous despicable Tory Prime Minister who broke his promise by ducking out after he had lost the 2016 referendum.

  53. agricola
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Those who voted to rule out no deal are commercially inept or they see it as a means of keeping us in the EU. They have largely ignored the instruction of the electorate in the referendum of 2016 and in terms of Labour and Conservative they have chosen to ignore their own manifesto promises to date. This leaves them a self serving, disreputable bunch of individuals who can no longer command the confidence of the electorate.

    As I understand it we leave on the 31st October unless the PM asks the EU for an extension. Question, can the EU force an extension upon us. Second question, can this malodorous parliament force an extension upon us.

    If we are in fact clear to go on 31st October all well and good, we go. Then at Boris’s convenience he calls an election, which with suitable cooperations/pacts with Brexit is aimed at clearing out the traitorous elements in our midst. If it becomes clear that leaving on 31st October has been blocked then it will be necessary to call the election before the end of October with suitable pacts in place.

    It is a very dirty time in UK politics from which we need to escape and at the same time exit the EU.

    • agricola
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

      So why, yet again. What is the point of contributing to the debate if you fail to publish. Do you have a weakness for the ever increasing number of remain trolls that do get published. I am genuinely puzzled at your publishing policy.

  54. Sydney Ashurst
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    There is no right to request and receive extensions to extensions (multiple) written into Article 50(3).
    This Bill instructing the Prime Minister to seek a third extension is challengeable in law.
    Primarily a first short extension, extending ‘this period’ (two years after notification – 29th March 2019), was granted for the specific purpose of ratifying the Withdrawal Agreement as Theresa May had indicated her acceptance.

    50(3) unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.’
    If the request had been made after 29th March it would not have been valid.
    The first request was ‘in this period’, but the request made on 10th April was NOT ‘in this period.
    Please read Article 50 TEU Part I and Part II (23.5.19) by Stanley Brodie QC, at Lawyers for Britain for the legal viewpoint
    The House of Commons did not approve the Withdrawal Agreement by 29 March 2019, nor by the 12th April.
    By letter of 5 April 2019, the United Kingdom submitted a request for a further extension of the period provided for in Article 50(3) TEU, as extended by the European Council, until 30 June 2019, with a view to finalising the ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement.
    On 10 April 2019, the European Council agreed to a further extension to allow for the ratification of the Withdrawal Agreement by both Parties.
    This request and extension was not contiguous with’ this period’ ending on 29th March.
    The same restriction was placed upon this second extension.
    The European Council takes note of the commitment by the United Kingdom to act in a constructive and responsible manner throughout the extension period in accordance with the duty of sincere cooperation, and expects the United Kingdom to fulfil this commitment and Treaty obligation in a manner that reflects its situation as a withdrawing State.
    This extension excludes any re-opening of the Withdrawal Agreement. Any unilateral commitment, statement or other act by the United Kingdom should be compatible with the letter and the spirit of the Withdrawal Agreement, and must not hamper its implementation. Such an extension cannot be used to start negotiations on the future relationship.
    Remember Article 50 was set at two years duration and this what Lord Kerr had to say: “We needed a time limit in order to reassure the departing state that it could really depart — it would get out, it couldn’t be enmeshed forever in endless negotiation, it could escape.”
    The second and any further extensions are subverting the purpose of Article 50 as stated by Lord Kerr.
    Is there any purpose or point to the Bill, will it ratify the Withdrawal Agreement?

    • Ian!
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

      I agree with your summary.

      However, at times and in practice the EU Council makes their own interpretations as they feel fit. This is generally supported by the ECJ who take their lead from the Council. A legal system that is not independent but integral.

      Article 50 also requires future trading and relationships to be included in any WA, this the first law the EU broke.

  55. Old person
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Is it time for a new acronym for what is now in play?
    GINO, “Government In Name Only”.

    On a serious note, as anything is possible now, if Article 50 is eventually withdrawn would the UK be liable to compensate the other EU27 for their outlay preparing for a no deal Brexit?

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

      Excellent !

      And I’m pleased with my term Hard Remain to describe the WA.

  56. Christine
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    The big question is that Boris Johnson has said he will die in a ditch before asking for an extension. So how can he be forced to go back to Brussels and if he doesn’t go what happens?

    • Ian!
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

      After we have left they could impeach him. But, to the People he will be a hero!

  57. Jacey
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    I would be be most interested to hear Sir John’s thoughts on the future relationship of the Conservative party and the Brexit party. Does he feel, in the event of a General Election, that the Conservative party should form an alliance ( or at least a ” non-aggression pact ” ) with the Brexit party or should it dismiss such an idea?

  58. Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    I just wanted to ask a question really. If an election were held after this treacherous legislation has received Royal Assent and become law, would a future government be bound by it? I just had a notion it wouldn’t and am clingling to that hope, so would be grateful if you could advise.

  59. Geoffers
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:16 am | Permalink

    Of topic: How kind of Carney to announce what we have known since day 1 that no deal will not be as bad as project fear has said. Arse covering on the day no deal taken off the table, umm very interesting!

  60. Ian!
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Good morning Sir John

    There is lots of advice from the MSM and political blogs as to the Governments next move. Clearly the views expressed are the partisan views of the writers and not actually in anyway a fact of the situation, as is my writing here.

    The PM is faced with the situation that Parliament as a whole wants to remain, they may dress it up as stopping a no-deal. But that in itself is a lie. My friends and colleagues and I would guess most people, although they might not have agreed with them, would have accepted their actions if they were honest about their motives in the first place. If they put forward an honest reason based on real facts as to why we should remain it gets respected as a view even though they might disagree. Telling people, we won’t get medicines and fresh food! – really the UK Government (Our Government) of the day is going to deliberately block imports at the ports – come on get real. It won’t be the EU blocking exports at their end, and they have said as much, they like everyone else still need the revenue. Permitting the proroguing of parliament to be reported as an additional 5 weeks, when it is just 4 Parliamentary days is a corruption of the truth and used dishonestly. As it is now the whole of the UK Parliament is painted with the brush of being corrupt, dishonest and having lost their moral compass.

    The UK Government has been playing to the rules and conventions traditionally and normally accepted in Parliament, while the Speaker and Labour in particular have been bending and twisting every one of them.

    Corbyn, this Public-School teacher (he tells people it was a school for the impoverished, but it only had rich fee-paying pupils) is at best delusional, but he does know that to achieve his method of government he has to first to destroy the existing one. Hence his actions and reasoning in Parliament. Corbyn’s version of the UK can only happen if the UK is outside of the EU, as it breaks all EU laws and rules. From that it makes sense for the EU to realise that sorting a deal out with Boris is less of a nightmare than one with JC. At least we would all remain friends.

    In playing to the rules and conventions Boris has been boxed in by the UK’s opposition and the agents of the EU in parliament. Time now to play it their way. Don’t chase an election as the terms are a disadvantage. Just sit on your hands until the 31st October. The EU Law States very clearly and unequivocally the UK must leave the EU then deal or no deal. The EU negotiators keep saying we can’t change things so don’t. As we know for now on every count the EU Law is superior to the UK’s, the EU Council is our ruler which must be obeyed. So, parliaments rulings this week are subordinate to the EU’s whatever Parliament thinks. He (Boris) may have broken the law on the 1st November, but it also too late, and he becomes a hero.

    The alternatives for those that oppose this government then, mean they would now have to show their hands as traitors to the country and the electorate, to find another defective wheeze. It would also show that this Government is protecting the People from a rogue parliament.

  61. BR
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    My worry is that Johnson seems to be painting himself into a corner where an election before we’ve left is inevitable. How I will vote in that event is uncertain.

    Will I trust yet another Conservative PM to see Brexit the same way as I do? Or will I expect that, with another 5 years in the bag, he will then do whatever he wants and resurrect May’s deal minus the backstop (which was probably always there to serve that purpose – one of distraction).

    When I look at all the political strategies available to Johnson I am concerned that this seems to be a recipe for a deal pre-31/10.

    I hope that he’s not planning to have Royal Assent granted to the remoaner Bill without having an election in the bag. He doesn’t need to do that – he can say to them on Monday that Assent is only forthcoming for both that Bill and the election Bill at the same time. otherwise he will do what he should have done anyway and deny Assent for anything they pass and sit there with the clock ticking down to leaving on WTO rules.

    If he really meant Brexit, that’s what he would have done anyway. And still should do, having shown them up for what they are via their shenanigans, that’s what I expected him to say once they lost the ability to sit at the weekend and next week.

    Only the nuttiest remoaner with Brexit Derangement Syndrome would have a problem with a PM refusing Assent to a Bill that was created by non-governmental forces seizing control of parliament, so the only reason he can be doing it this way is because he wants a deal pre-31/10. That cannot be good, because…

    We Brexiteers are sure that there will be limited disruption, if any at all, so the best deal will be forthcoming when we have already left. He and Cummings must know that and May burned all of the Conservative Party’s political capital in the trust department, so… I have no trust left and will probably vote Brexit Party unless Johnson refuses assent and gets us out on 31/10 on WTO terms. IT is still within his power to do that.

  62. tim
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    Labour will be very reluctant to come out clearly for Remain given the voting base in many of their current seats, “GASP”, THEY ARE REMAIN!
    I am born and bred indoctrinated Labour voter, BUT I see them for what they are and it sickens me. Up noth most of us voted to leave, about 107 Labour MP have betrayed us and voted REMAIN. We are enraged!
    After a GE Labour will cease to exist up north.

  63. BR
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Johnson MUST deny Assent for the remoaner Bill.

    What is he playing at? We cannot have a situation where a bunch of MPs seize control and p[ass legislation without the PM stepping and saying:

    “No, if you want to pass legislation you need to become the government – and you know how that’s achieved”.

    Otherwise, our unwritten constitution is a shambles. It requires collusion from a sitting PM for non-governmental forces to pass legislation; May did that and it must never happen again.

    And a I said above, if Johnson uses this to force an election pre-31/10 he will be using this in a way that asks for trust (that he won’t resurrect the WA). He’s not getting that from me. WTO please – THEN and only then, negotiate.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

      You haven’t a clue about what British values are, have you?

      You clearly seriously think that a government, elected with say, twenty-five percent of the vote – as some have been – should be free to pass whatever laws it wants.

      There’s another word for Parliament. It’s called “the Legislature”.

      Any clues there?

      • BR
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

        That is without doubt the most brainless nonsense of a contrived argument that I have ever heard.

        1. There is a democratic mandate to leave the EU.
        2. The WA Bill has passed already, NO further legislation is required.
        3. The post is about what the UNELECTED non-government are doing.

        I could go on, but…

        Perhaps the clue for you is on the tin – they are the GOVERNMENT. They don’t have to let anyone else pass legislation until those people become the government. And they’d better not or we will all smell a rat and vote BXP – they have the levers of power and chose not to use them,.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 7, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

          Oh dear oh dear. Never heard of a Private Member’s Bill either, it seems.

          You know almost nothing of your own country.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

        You need to study some Britsh constitutional law Martin.
        You are very uninformed.

  64. Little Englander
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    And I thought the EU was a sinister, all enveloping, a crush rebellion political juggernaut. THEY are TAME compared to our bunch in Westminister who are past masters of s… and division, changing the rules to suit their purpose accommodated by a little nobody in a very big chair who in effect ‘controls’ ‘this house’ in the way that HE wants (a midget Emperor with a vice like grip – cannot be toppled and refuses to go). This Parliament and the majority of people in it are worse than ‘the other place’ (Brussels) who quite contentedly rubber stamp everything that goes before them in complete and unabashed unity. But one has to admit THEY govern – WE do not! THEY are transparent about their ‘dishonesty’ -WE are not!. THEY subjugate the poorest Countries within their block through financial/ fiscal control whereas the monkey majority in our Parliament are intent on subjugating us further by confidently thinking that they can negotiate ‘a deal’ which can keep us ‘in’ (which they assuredly can and any ass can do that) BUT only under the already agreed EU/May Terms which means no voice, no dissent and FULL compliance for years? which is the only one that they have repeatedly said that they will accept. Our Political establishment LOSE arguments THEIRS never does. IF our blocking MPs dont want subjugation then negotiate FULL membership warts and all and allow this Country to be decision makers (with all that that means) at the top table BUT NOT the alternative which half in and NOWHERE. OR or Just Leave!

  65. BillM
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    I suspect we are all appalled by the duplicity within Parliament today. I wonder what are the views of the Commonwealth Nations and our allies in the USA?
    Would they now consider The Mother of All Parliaments has completely lost its marbles, gone anti-people and thrown away all sense of democracy? And are now therefore, unfit to deal with?
    Whatever happened to the Human Rights of the 17.4 Million majority who voted to leave?

  66. BillM
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    It is now a fact that the Government is in a minority in the HoC by some 20+ seats.
    Isn’t this situation a dire one for the Country?
    How can Boris ever govern when every single one of his Bills can be voted down each and every time it is introduced? This is a diabolical situation.
    Surely, there must be a clause in the Fixed Parliamentary Term Act to accommodate such an awful predicament?

  67. Kenny
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    I do not want an election – and i’m a conservative party member – because Boris is acting like a child by refusing to work with Nigel Farage, whom he for some reason hates. On his own, he cannot get a majority, that is obvious. another GE will return another hung parliament with no majority.

  68. Alouette
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    According to some news sites our PM hopes an early election will prevent a lot of students voting as they won’t have had time to register in their new home towns. So much for democracy.

  69. Yossarion
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Why keep using the plural for the Green party?

  70. matthu
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

    Even if the Conservatives win the election, they might need to form a coalition.

    Who might they form a coalition government with? Certainly not Labour, SNP, Liberal Democrats or the Greens.

    I

    • matthu
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

      Maybe the Independent Conservative Party! As long as they never admit Soubry to their number …

  71. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

    I see Gina Miller is being given a date for the Supreme Courts to hear her appeal. Who said money doesn’t talk? Other people’s cases take forever but she just jumps the queue. Sickening. I hope it is in vain and it costs a lot of dosh.

    • Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

      We now live in a country with the principles and integrity of the most corrupt third world dictatorships.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

      Not sure it is her money that is talking but the fact that lawyers as a class are hugely pro EU. (Rather like academia, politicians, bureaucrats and the BBC). Perhaps because the extra layers of EU laws, regulations and red tape creates so much extra parasitic work for the profession. Done usually at the expense of the productive thus damaging productivity so hugely.

      The Human Right act particularly damaging with things a vague as “the right to a family life” or perhaps even worse:- No discrimination: everyone’s rights are equal. You should not be treated unfairly – because, for example, of your gender, race, disability, sexuality, religion or age.

      These can be stretched to mean almost anything at all by inventive rent seeking courts & judges. Certainly it would be nice if the appalling John Major is somehow bankrupted by legal costs. He did, after all, bankrupt so very many businesses and individuals with his predictable ERM disaster. He did not even say sorry!

      “If it is not hurting it is not working” the idiot use to like saying. He seems very keen to bury the Conservatives a second time!

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

        They are not vague terms. They have been refined by case law. For instance, the Right to a Family Life does not mean that it is a defence for criminals against deportation, as ECHR recently found in Russia’s favour on the point.

        Forty-six countries appear to have no problem with ECHR, and Aus, NZ, and Canada have virtually identical laws with few problems too.

        Of course, if you want mob rule, then you don’t like it.

      • Simon Coleman
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

        No, it was Brexit-supporting Norman Lamont who coined that phrase as Chancellor. John Major actually won you a majority and held it for 5 years. In the 22 years since he left office you’ve held a majority for just 2 years. Some thanks he got!

    • julie williams
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

      Any chance of the government claiming costs if Miller et al lose?

  72. Ian terry
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Newmania.

    You are amazing do you know that? You are the only man in the country that seems to be in full knowledge of a no deal leaving the EU.I wish you you would provide full chapter and verse on it all. The truth is nobody knows not even our host and we can all think what may and could happen but it is just that our own personal thoughts. I am more worried about the rolling out of the Lisbon treaty and full blown Federalism being slowly but surely being moved forward by the EU.

    Until we actually do it then that is the time to actually get all behind the country and just do it. We are experiencing all this because of the majority fear of change which could end end being better for everybody including your children.

    Change produces three types of people:

    Those who make it happen.
    Those who want it to happen.
    Those who wondered what the **** happened.

    Why do we keep talking this country down? Every twist and turn someone always ready to slag it off The way this whole process has been handled by politicians , BBC and the media in general is a total disgrace. Is it any wonder we are where we are now.

  73. Turboterrier.
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

    Sir John.

    Most would probably like this Parliament to last a bit longer before they retire.

    Too bleeding sure they would just to help their pension and golden handshake.

    In the real world when you get sacked for gross miss conduct you are out of the door with your personal belongings and nothing else. They knew what they were doing, they gave no quarter and should expect none in return. The same when MPs change parties it should trigger an immediate constituency election and until that is held the MPs vote is for the party he was voted in on by his constituents. It is them that are the real losers.

  74. Sea Warrior
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps Boris should type out the letter demanded by this horrible, horrible bill – and then leave it on his desk, demanding that Corbyn delivers it to the EU!

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

      He could write ‘Brussels make me fart, you can deliver it instead of me, Good luck! love Boris’

  75. Ian terry
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

    Sir John

    There is always another option and it is:

    The EU in the shape of Germany and France say they have had enough of the comedy show and they refuse to an extension and just kick us out. What would happen then?

    It is being reported that Macron has had enough and Merkal has been informed that Germany could be better off in the longer term.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

      Ian, bring IG on. I hope this is true but could we be that lucky?

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

        That should read bring it on

  76. NigelE
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    So, no general election until November (why even then, though …?), with a govt with no majority and unable to bring forward legislation because either it will be voted down or have unconnected amendments added to further delay Brexit.

    What will you be doing Sir John, you and the other 600+ highly paid MPs in the interim?

  77. BCL
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    Let us not forget that most of the problem falls at Mrs May’s door. Apart from being a remainer at heart and doing a dreadful job of negotiating, for which read “giving in”, she is the one that, through a terrible election campaign, managed to lose the majority which left BJ in such a weakened position.

  78. Everhopeful
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Wondering if this is true?
    Tories allowed Anti Brexit Bill to pass through Lords without interruption because Labour promised that if this happened then they would vote for a GE.
    Labour has now reneged on this deal so no GE legislation will be passed on Monday.
    Supposing this is true. Will the Tories now learn?
    Not everyone plays by the Queensbury rules!
    For Goodness Sake!!

    • Everhopeful
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

      Ah no!
      Tories want Labour to carry can for Brexit delay.
      Great idea!
      Good!!

  79. Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    The upshot is after reading some letters, that we are disgusted with how the MPs have squandered our Democricy over many decades, and every thing else.

    Sadly all Westmonster seems to want is to shove as much work as possible to the EU, so that they can still get paid for being traitors, we carry on paying for another Government ?

    Boris has made a good start at being Cromwell, but I fear unless there are serious Out comes for Treachery, I mean Capital punishment, The we will never ever stop this treacherous behaviour.

    Did I hear a sharp intake of breath from some of you ?

    In the mean time you will not get a change in our Parliament , if you want a better Parliament, you must vote for real change, no good stubbing your toe on the same stone, throw that stone away.

    What is left of the Tory Party, I feel is on life support, if you have any wish to have a proper
    Decent Parliament then you need The Brexit Party alongside, you are finished without them.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

      I agree Ian. This country needs change. What is the point in voting in the same rubbish? We all know they are liars and cheats. Why not give another party a chance? They cannot be any worse than the lot we have now.

  80. Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    I have no one to vote for.

    I have wanted out of the EU since Maastricht and can only vote for a party that tells the truth about how our monetary system actually works in reality using the actual accounting that takes place. Not dressed in politics and ideology.

    I cannot vote for Farage he simply has no idea how it works. John knows how it works but even then 20% of the time he breaks the accounting rules which does not reflect reality. Ideology takes over.

    So I do not know what to do.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

      No need to worry, votes don’t count anyway.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      Party names in a hat?

  81. Keith O
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

    Now that our PM is required by law to write a letter requesting an extension to Article 50, as unanimous approval is required by all 28 heads of state, could he decline the request thereby facilitating no deal, or prompting a concession from the EU?

  82. Posted September 6, 2019 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Can BJ refuse – preferably at the last minute – to ask EU for an extension; then challenge the Opposition to move a motion of no confidence in him?
    Then November 1st seems within reach …
    Yes?
    No?

  83. Alan Joyce
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    The other day in the House, a rather unusual event took place. This was the ”accidental’ passing of the Kinnock Amendment which got attached to the bill requiring the PM to ask the EU for an extension to Article 50. The Amendment passed by default because the government deliberately neglected to provide tellers for the No side. Why did the government do this please?

    The Amendment requires Parliament to debate and vote on the Withdrawal Agreement for a fourth time but with additional concessions and guarantees on workers’ rights and thus allowable as a new motion. I’m sure MP’s would be very tempted to back a new WA just so they could move on and get back to their comfortable old ways.

    Your party wouldn’t have any designs on bringing the WA back would it? I will back the Conservative party if the PM is straight with the British people and is seeking a ‘clean’ Brexit. What I am not prepared to countenance is yet more underhandedness and subterfuge as the unreconstructed Remainers in your party seek to wrest back control of Brexit.

    If there is a hint of something like this going on then it’s the Brexit Party for me. I doubt I will be alone.

    Are you able to comment on the Kinnock Amendment and why it got through?

    • Ian!
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

      Alan, that intreaged me as well. Very deliberate

  84. Stephen Reay
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

    When there is an election I won’t be voting for KFC Corbyn or even Rooster Corbyn.

  85. Girly Swots
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    Repeal the Parliament Act!

  86. Jack Falstaff
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:12 pm | Permalink

    Quite frankly the Commons is so perversely unrepresented that the ruling party should be Mr Farage’s Brexit Party and the opposition should be the LibDems until Brexit is sorted out.

    The Tories and Labour are a disgrace and neither represent anything in terms of clarity.
    Once Brexit has been achieved and the public listened to, then Cons/Lab can return.

    Obviously the validity of all this would all turn on getting rid of that perfidious ape of a speaker first.

    At the moment we look like some sort of third-world quasi-dictatorship. The electorate voted to leave but now it appears we must ask the EU for permission first.

  87. Fred H
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

    When Boris is required to visit Brussels with the ‘peace in our time letter’ I suggest he ‘goes down’ with a nasty 3 week virus and is advised to stay indoors, preferably in No 10……

  88. hefner
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

    “It was curious to see how …. the opportunity on Wednesday”. Is that a real statement? Are you daft or playing games? Do you take your readers for complete imbeciles or what? Do you not follow, are you not involved in the events of the day to see and understand how the Opposition appears to have been a bitty more clever than the PM and his followers? I am disappointed, that was neither incisive nor topical, I was expecting better from you.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

      It isn’t over yet hef.
      Wait and let’s see what happens.

  89. Edwardm
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

    Time for an election – let the British people decide on the fate of MPs who have voted to give EU control over us in defiance of the referendum result and promises made at the last election. We need a chance to change the make-up of the HoC before anything else happens, given the dishonour shown by too many MPs.

  90. Fred H
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

    OFF TOPIC.
    I read Gideon Osborne has now accepted he isn’t wanted as Head of the IMF. Never mind he has several other jobs to fall back on.

  91. Simon Coleman
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

    Your problem is that you need a majority because you couldn’t form a coalition with anyone other than the cheery-faced DUP. You can kiss most of your Scottish seats goodbye and the Lib Dems will take some of your seats in England. The likelihood is that both you and Labour will experience a net loss of seats, with a Labour, Lib and SNP coalition a realistic outcome.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 7, 2019 at 8:48 am | Permalink

      Current polls show Conservatives ahead by 10 points enough for a majority.
      If they formed an arrangement with the Brexit Party that majority would be bigger.

  92. BR
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

    I sincerely hope for the sake of the CP’s survival that the great political strategist Cummings has a better plan than what we are seeing.

    If they let the clock run down and someone, Johnson or anyone else, requests an extension… no more CP.

    If they bring back the WA to parliament, no more CP.

    If they bring back a re-hash of the WA – no more CP.

    They have the levers of power -they can deny a non-government cabal the right to pass legislation by refusing Assent. Let the idiots wail and scream, try their little court cases – Assent is not theirs to give or deny, if Johnson had played that card, they lose.

    What we’re seeing is that Johnson is angling for a pre-Brexit election when he could simply have said to these people “You’re not getting Royal Assent. Like it or lump it, the clock ticks down unless we get what we want from the EU”.

    He hasn’t done that. he’s tried to paint himself as the victim, forced into a pre-Brexit election by the nasty remoaners.

    I’m NOT buying it. Even if he now ties Assent for their Bill to a GE Bill, it’s too late now, since their Bill makes it necessary to have a GE before exit – a vote for him would be a blank cheque. I’m tired of being played for a fool. Johnson had his chance and blew it. My vote is going to the BXP.

  93. hellbent
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

    you need a real shake up over there- get out in the streets and raise hell! just like the Irish did one hundred years ago – it’s the only way – if anybody needs change it’s certainly you guy’s

  94. Original Richard
    Posted September 6, 2019 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

    The next election, which through a Speaker led remainer coup of Parliament may not come until 2022, will be not be the usual Left v Right but Leave v Remain and if either Labour or the Conservative Party fail to take this massive change into account they will be toast.

    Labour are likely to fail by trying to face both ways and consequently will be beaten by the Lib Dems.

    The Conservatives are likely to fail at this election to remove sufficient of their remain voting MP candidates. The removal of just the 21 who voted against the government this week will not be sufficient and it will take a lot more deselections to make the Party fully acceptable by Leavers.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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