How pro EU are you

We did not hear from the usual pro Remain contributors to this site what kind of Remain they wanted. So let’s try another approach to get them talking about the EU. Here is a simple test of how pro EU membership you really are.

  1. Do you want the UK to join the Euro soon?
  2. Do you want the UK to join Schengen and have common borders with the EU?
  3. Do you want the common EU defence and security identity to develop, so our forces typically are deployed for EU led missions?
  4. Do you want a larger EU budget, with more transfers to the poorer countries?
  5. Do you think the UK should reduce its current special abatement of contributions, to help the wider EU?
  6. Do you welcome   the long term aim of the EU’s ever closer union which  is political union?

If you answer Yes to all six then you are indeed a keen advocate of EU membership and understand its full implications. If you say No to all these then maybe you should accept the UK cannot remain in the present EU, with so little in common with the aims and aspirations of the other members. Given the direction of travel and the legal form of the EU disagreeing with any one of these propositions makes the UK’s position difficult and means we cannot be at heart of the project. Nor can we claim to be a leading influence on the EU if we disagree with these common strands of EU thinking.

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245 Comments

  1. Stephen Priest
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    I wish someone would ask Nicola Sturgeon.

    Would the SNP want a No Deal Independence form the UK, or only one on terms agreed to by England?

    • TomTomTom
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      UK Politicians should take note.

      The SNP would never contemplate leaving a political union without a deal.

      Should make the future negotiation between Scotland and the UK simple and short.

      • tim
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

        scotland voted to remain in the union!

        • TomTomTom
          Posted September 10, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

          Yes they did.

          The SNP, however, campaigned to leave the UK, which would have also meant leaving the EU, had the 2014 referendum worked out the way they had hoped.

          My point being that should Scotland vote for separation in a future referendum the UK government should simply refuse to do a deal.

          As the SNP believe it to be impossible to leave without a deal.

          The biggest irony is that had the SNP won in 2014 the UK almost certainly not have had the EU referendum as we’d all be knee-deep in the difficulties of dissolving a 300-year union.

        • John Fitzgerald
          Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

          Tim you are quite correct but like the remoaners Sturgeon did not like the answer so in true democratic terms she wants the vote taken again!

        • Hope
          Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

          JR, on the radio today it was suggested to revoke article 50 thereby negating parliaments surrender law and then issue a new article 50 within a couple of days or during an election campaign.

          Would this work?

        • libertarian
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 8:46 am | Permalink

          tim

          scotland voted to remain in the union!

          No they didn’t Scotland didn’t have a vote , there was no regional , country or constituency vote . It was a referendum of citizens of the UK and Scotland had already voted to remain in the UK

      • Woody
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

        One main difference would be that the UK would be respectful and sympathetic to an old friend and partner. Sad, but not vindictive .. pity the eurocracy isn’t so minded … small people.

      • Turboterrier.
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:23 am | Permalink

        Tom Tom Tom

        I think not. Having lived in Scotland and seen the change since their independence referendum there will be blood and feathers all over the place.

        To keep it short all tht has to happen is that hteir divorce payment is properly dedtailed to take into account the 100s of years that Scotland has benefited from UK tax payer funding.

        No mister nice guy just cold hard negotiations just as the EU did to us. we set out our stall and that is it.

        Whatever they get will eventually be taken over by the EU as the SNP keep informing us that they voted to remain time and time again.

        Plans should already be in place should this situation ever arise and it must include the removal of all British forces from Scotland and the provision of a hard border to stop an easy passage down the M74 for foreign nationals. Brexiteers have fought hard to ensure that we get back full protection of our borders and it would be criminal to provide easy access. Scotland must be dragged kicking and screaming into the real world of what it is like to be Independent but under the control of a Federated State Government.

        The biggest and thickest red line must be that should God forbid that Scotland cannot survive if they ever want to rejoin the rest of the UK that choice will be the sole responsibility of the people of the rest of the UK and not politicians. We are the ones who have to pay for them.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

      Stephen, brilliant comment.

  2. Annette
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:27 am | Permalink

    You missed out Are they happy for the top down Napoleonic Corpus Juris system of law to be superior to & replace our bottom up Habeas Corpus law?
    When they inevitably meet their ‘red line’ of EU membership, say the Euro (per Vince Cable), what are they going to do about it? Vetos are being removed. Are they going to threaten to leave, the only option left?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

      Annette, read up on how the different English and Scottish jurisdictions function. There is no European Union requirement to standardise, and the UK itself already has more than one.

      All that is required is that member states replicate the relevant European Laws according to their own conventions, just as do the countries of the UK with its law.

      John’s post again confuses relatives with absolutes, and although that might suit the infantile mind which can only deal in the second, whether he intends to do so or not, he patronises those with that difficulty.

      • Enrico
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

        There’s obviously something difficult for you to admit that you can’t answer the 6 questions.It says it all really!!

      • Edward2
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:14 am | Permalink

        You OK with the European Arrest Warrant system Martin, where you can be taken from the UK and put in jail in a foreign country to await trial at some future date on a charge no UK court can examine first?

      • Caterpillar
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff,

        Re: your final paragraph.

        Could you help us with your insight then? Please replace the questions with those that you see as more appropriate but covering the same content. If not then please just answer them in the ‘relative’.

        My answer to the first question* is the ……….- presumably wrong. Please give your relative answers.

        [*Euro requires Maastricht convergence criteria throw out consideration of, inter alia, (i) interest growth compared with GDP growth, (ii) MMT, (iii) alternative economic/financial systems that allow physical constraints to take precedence over financial constraints. Blind commitment to the Convergence criteria is absolutely bad resulting in cognitive rigidity. Moreover, Euro requires central bank with one interest rate, this requires aligned business cycles. Aligning business cycles over ever greater economies reduces the possibility of risk diversification (and escape routes from recession / depression). Aligned business cycles are absolutely bad.]

      • libertarian
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:27 am | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff

        For someone who is factually wrong most times he posts keep calling people that are far smarter than him infantile is not a good look

        By the way any comment on the hilarious situation in which the EU fan club in Parliament have passed a bill that is totally ILLEGAL under European law….

        This was led by a lawyer …..

        Anyway I see once again you’ve run away from answering basic questions….. its almost as if you haven’t got a clue what you voted for..

      • Woody
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

        Is the driver in that drivel of yours not contained in the word “replicate”.

      • Richard416
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

        It’s no good saying that the e.u. has no requirement to standardise because all the evidence points the other way. That is exactly what they will do. That is why we have had to change our road signs, wiring regulations, tyre specifications etc etc.

      • Excalibur
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

        What is certain is that EU law trumps UK law. Thus Annette’s assertion that Napoleonic Corpus Juris law prevails is accurate. Leavers want English Common Law i.e. that derived from custom and judicial precedent. The Scots can interpret as they wish, but we wish to retain habeas corpus and to revoke the European Arrest Warrant which is antipathetic to English values.

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

        What a rude and silly post, which yet again fails to answer any of your questions, Sir J. We have noticed, MiC and all you others that you have no answers to any of the quite legitimate questions. Why? Because you know how unpopular most of the true answers would be to the vast majority of the population. So just stay quiet and hope people won’t notice. Who has the ‘infantile mind’ now, MiC?

        • bill brown
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

          Jiminyjim

          Totally unnecessary personal remarks, even if they have been used before. Grow up

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:39 am | Permalink

        “All that is required is that member states replicate…”

        Nope. That wasn’t advertised in 1975 either.

        • Czerwonadupa
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

          Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually & irreversibly lead to federation.
          Jean Monnet, Founding Father of the EU 30 April 1952 (in a letter to a friend)

      • acorn
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

        Your last paragraph Martin sums up the prime directive of the “leave” campaign. It knew there was no point in issuing economic numbers, or making any complicated promises to a poorly educated voting populace, that simply would not understand them.

        The simplistic lie on the side of a big red bus was a brilliant marketing move that proved very effective. And, for the same reasons, there was no point in even trying to rebut that lie to an audience that would be deaf to it.

        There is no doubt that those that voted leave will, in the aggregate, be the ones most badly affected by it. But, they will all keep having their opinions formed by tabloid newspapers owned by the 1% Elite and their Westminster acolytes.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 7:39 am | Permalink

          The usual remain insult from acorn who thinks only people who vote like him are clever.
          Keep it up acorn every time you insult the majority in this country you add to their numbers.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 8:48 am | Permalink

          Says acorn who cant tell the difference between South Koreans and French companies

        • Czerwonadupa
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 10:21 am | Permalink

          Who suffered from India leaving, the million murdered in religious conflict? Who suffered from Mandela’s SA leaving, the shanty town dwellers, while the ANC panjandrums enriched themselves? Would they want to return? No because freedom is PRICELESS

        • a-tracy
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

          acorn “a poorly educated voting populace” – get you!

          How many qualifications do you think someone should have before they get to vote? Or should it be done on who pays more than £5,000pa income taxes, because even though they may be “poorly educated” they are smart enough to get a decent job?

          I’m getting sick of disrespectful people like you acorn! The majorities opinions are ignored and degraded, your side should work on how they talk to us and talk about us. Belittling people, talking down to people by often dishonourable people who told us one thing to get our general election vote and now acting against us is totally a piss-take by your “Elite” and I believe …. well, I’m obviously not educated enough to give you my opinion so, you’ll have to wait and see what I believe will happen.

    • pauline baxter
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      Well done Annette re the Napoleonic Code.
      I see Martin in Cardiff is calling Sir John and most of us infantile – for what was it confusing relatives with absolutes. He STILL has not given any good reason for being in the EU.
      Martin it is you that is infantile for not recognising that the EU intends Absolute Rule over its members. You are blind to it’s Creep in every area.
      Why ARE you frightened of the UK being an independent sovereign state?

  3. Shirley
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    I wish we could force the Remainers in Parliament to respond to these questions, and then widely publish their responses throughout the whole of the UK, Europe, and the world.

    • Christine
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      A good set of questions John. Everyone on here should copy and send this list to their MP and demand an answer. The EU has said it will allow a two speed Europe but we all know that those in the slow lane will be bullied and put at a disadvantage until they change their views.

      Leavers must not give up. We are fighting for the very future of our country. I truly believe that our remainer politicians have very little knowledge of the EU and they are being led by a few who have been promised top jobs in the corporate world.

    • Jack Leaver
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:31 am | Permalink

      Shirley, I wish we could too and I would add an additional question:

      If the UK was not in the EU would you wish to join now and, if so, give a detailed explanation why?

  4. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    My answer is simple to each of those questions.

    NO.

    • Gary C
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:06 am | Permalink

      +1

    • oldtimer
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

      Ditto

    • eeyore
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

      334 comments yesterday on what’s so good about the EU. I skimmed the lot but our poor host has to read every one carefully in case it lands him in the libel courts. Not a handful EU-positive – of those only Newmania remotely cogent, and his best shot was that leaving the EU weakens NATO (!?). The others frankly weird.

      Meanwhile Mr Corbyn, who only last month was demanding an election and pledging to vote for one, accuses the PM of being untrustworthy.

      • G Wilson
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:50 am | Permalink

        You will never read a case for our membership of the EU that is both positive, and relies only on true facts.

        That’s because there is no such case.

        That’s why all we hear from remainers are scare stories and obvious fictions

    • Enrico
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      Agreed totally.

  5. Mick
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7445963/Scuffles-break-Speakers-chair-amid-attempts-shut-Parliament.html
    Watched the final proceedings and what a utter disgrace these remoaners mps are, they obviously don’t represent the people of this great country but we’re too chicken lived to vote for a General Election, we will be leaving the dreaded Eu on October 31st 2019 so get over yourselves remoaners and when you eventually have the gonads to call a General Election the information is out there for everyone to see your voting record on trying to thwart Brexit , so matter what lies you spew out in the run up to vote day you can kiss the job as a mp goodbye and good riddance

    • steve
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

      Mick

      “so no matter what lies you spew out in the run up to vote day you can kiss the job as a mp goodbye and good riddance”

      My sentiments exactly.

      It’s on it’s way.

    • BW
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

      Mick, I wish I was as confident as you that we will leave on the 31st. I also hope we leave with no deal. However, looking at Parliament as it is, a complete and utter disgrace, so don’t think we will. I also hope Boris does dot ask for an extension. What a ridiculous situation we have The PM being threatened with arrest for standing up for the result of the referendum and the promises made by politicians in manifestos at elections and votes to leave with article 50 etc. All because a biased speaker allowed it to happen. He could have stopped it, regained a little dignity, and allowed a government to govern. However, that I think is a thing of the past. And I read that his resignation is timed to allow a remainer parliament to choose the next speaker. And so it goes on. Boris must win this fight and bring this to an end. One last thing, if the remain win and Article 50 is revoked, do they really think this will go away.

      • ian terry
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

        BW

        Parliament as it is, a complete and utter disgrace,

        Too true and what further proof do you need of the debacle in the chamber in the early hours.

        MPS who change sides should automatically trigger a By Election and until that result is announced the vote stays with the party they stood for.

        Mps who bring the house into disrepute should be on aone strike and your out, no more of this “I have done nothing wrong”

        If the rules of behaviour within the house have to be rewritten so be it . The people have had enough of this behaviour it is totally unnecessary and degrading to the hard working politicians who keep well within the tried and tested rules of etiquette established over centuries.

        All parties are going to have to seriously revue their selection processes. You know what you sign up for, you take the money and you obey the standards. Rocket science it is not.

    • James1
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

      It would have been salutary to hear any of the six questions asked in Parliament. Instead we were treated to a demonstration by a number of our political representatives reminiscent of behaviour in the 1930’s Reichstag, or more commonplace in a banana republic. Roll on the GE. In the meantime it would be so nice to hear any of the questions being asked by a BBC interviewer.

    • Alan jutson
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

      Mick
      Agreed we now have rather too many MP’s who are playing self interested politics
      Honourable Members I think not

      • Ian terry
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:41 am | Permalink

        Alan Jutson

        Well said Alan

  6. Dominic
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    No longer is being a member of the EU a partnership. Being a member of the EU is an act of constitutional self-destruction.

    As an aside. Last nights scenes in the Commons is an indication of what will happen to this nation and its democracy if the opposition ever do achieve power. Labour especially are a direct threat to us all. They are pure venom unleashed and their subtle inference of violence is designed to intimidate and impose self-censorship

    Johnson can be the saviour of this nation or he can be its jailer

    • steve
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:13 am | Permalink

      Dominic

      “Johnson can be the saviour of this nation or he can be its jailer”

      He could theoretically ‘be’ jailed.

      But it wouldn’t be for long. Still, let them jail him and see what happens.

      • Enrico
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

        Is it correct that the PM can use his executive powers to override parliament and the law that’s just been passed? Lets hope he can and if he could why has he not done it?

        • Jagman84
          Posted September 10, 2019 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

          It’s called keeping your powder dry. Why act until you need to when you can wait until your opponent has insufficient time left to counter? That’s what I would do, TBH.

    • BW
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:49 am | Permalink

      Agreed. He must win. Or we are finished. I also think our pro Brexit politicians should grow up and unite. It seems ok for remainer politicians to stop government doing its job. This is more relevant at the next election. We must not stand against one another and split the leave vote. Stop the squabbling and win

      • steve
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:53 am | Permalink

        BW

        Don’t worry, revenge is on it’s way. Next election Labour and the rest of the remain traitors will get their comeuppance.

        Their foul abuse of our nation will be repaid, in full.

    • Woody
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

      Johnson will never be held responsible for being our jailer, he has fought to free us from the eu prison .. the fault if he fails lies with corbyn and swinson but mainly with May, Robbins, Hammond and the many MP’s who lied when they said they supported their parties 2017 manifesto promises.

      • Ian terry
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:43 am | Permalink

        Woody

        Totally correct.

        Robbins has done well out of it hasn’t he?

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:18 am | Permalink

      Agreed and guess what, 19 new peers – this country is in the last chance saloon.

    • BJC
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      Dominic

      I have indeed, picked up the Marxist tactics now being deployed in our Parliament; we can only hope that it will be their single sniff at power.

      It is, of course, the Marxists’ raison d’etre to whip up discontent amongst the masses through repeatedly claiming that the elite only ever do things “to” them, not “for” them. All our Parliamentarians meet the criteria of an “elite”, but it’s a sacrifice the Marxist is prepared to make in the name of championing the underdog!

      The fact that the dark art of Marxism deliberately creates the chaos (doing well on that front) that “only” the State machine can resolve through funding from the transfer and confiscation of wealth, escapes their attention.

    • NickC
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

      Dominic, The problem is that Boris has repeatedly said he wants a “deal”. God alone knows why – no one else can give a reason. Actually the Benn no no deal act is what Boris is trying to do anyway. So in a way the Benn act is irrelevant.

      All that has to happen now is for the EU to believe that a “no deal” is still possible. Which I suppose it is – just. But Boris already voted for May’s “deal”, so he’ll certainly recommend his own deal which will be a minor variation of May’s. We’re stuffed. Again.

  7. Mark B
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:55 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Answers:

    1) No.

    2) No.

    3) No.

    4) They should pay us !

    5) Definitely not !

    May I say that the reason these people come on here is not because they are pro-EU and therefore Vichy Remain, but because they are Trolls ! Alas our kind host cannot see this, and would sooner hold in moderation regular contributors comments in moderation, like mine was yesterday, than deal with these people.

    Their game is simple. Not to debate or defend, but to drown out other contributors with their noise. Sadly, neither our kind host can see this nor any of my fellow contributors. If people started to ignore the bait traps these Trolls set maybe our kind host might have more time to read and pass our contributions. Just a thought 😉

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      Good point Mark. Their posts are infantile and quite frankly tedious.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

      I totally agree with your diagnosis. I am a Leaver too.

      A couple of years ago, I saw that leaving the EU was like excising a cancer. It needed skill and patience. We needed, I thought, to leave gradually through Efta – the Norway Option if you like. But using it as a departure gate, not as a permanent residence!

      Now the EU cancer has spread and is gangrenous. We must get it out now before it does any more damage. The way the parliament is behaving – arrogant, out of touch, full of nasty tricks and personal attacks – is typical of the EU. Italy has recently lost its anti European leadership through the same trickery and propaganda. The parliament, our democracy and our trust are all being trashed deliberately. That is serious.

      Me? I am a Boris fan.

    • steve
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      Mark B

      “May I say that the reason these people come on here is not because they are pro-EU and therefore Vichy Remain, but because they are Trolls ! Alas our kind host cannot see this, and would sooner hold in moderation regular contributors comments in moderation, like mine was yesterday, than deal with these people”

      Mark, it isn’t as simple as that. For one thing we live in a Lawyer’s world and this site is privately hosted. I often have my posts modded-out even though I cannot for the life of me see anything wrong with what I said, but, what I do know is JR has to stay razor sharp otherwise we wouldn’t have this site at all.

      As for trolls we know who they are, Viz; the mouthy one from Cardiff, Andy et al. I can only suggest our host is perhaps a little too tolerant where they are concerned, but if it was down to me I’d simply deny them platform. The key here is just to ignore and rob them of the satisfaction. We are not obliged to give them any attention.

  8. Pominoz
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Your diary posts are regularly attracting over 300 comments. I bet the YES to to all questions posts do not exceed single figures. I will avoid listing the names here.

    Please do keep up your inquisition. One day a detailed positive reason to remain might just be provided.

  9. Everhopeful
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    No, no, a thousand times NO!
    But isn’t it all looking a bit gut wrenchingly awful?
    Have May and Boris snatched defeat from the jaws of 2016 Referendum victory?
    Can anything more be done?
    It all looks pretty gloomy according to remoaning MSM.

  10. Richard1
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    That is indeed the problem. I am sure that not more than a small minority of the 48% would support all 6, and a good number probably wouldn’t support any At all. There is a denial in the UK of the actual – and very clear – direction of travel of the EU. The only real question is whether 2016-19 has been the right timing for exit, especially given the fiasco of brexit so far. It’s also possible that in some future realignment the UK would have had a chance to carve out a more detached arrangement as part of approving a new level of integration.

    I assume it’s WTO Brexit now. If the EU is able to use the UK’S departure to put through a new level of integration (which for the EU should be a positive from brexit), and certainly if Continuity Remain are right in their dystopia view of post-brexit Britain, then we will be back in a few years. In those circs of course it would be the full panoply of EU membership, euro included.

  11. Alan jutson
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    I see Mrs May has underlined her true beliefs with her honours list produced this morning

    Our system is now well and truly broken as more and more political cronies get recognition once again
    Clearly it’s not what you do that counts but who you know !

    Simply a farce

    • Ian terry
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      Alan Jutson

      Right as usual Alan.

      No wonder the cry rings out drain the swamp when you see who keeps topping it up and with what

  12. Sea Warrior
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:04 am | Permalink

    Sadly, too few will see these excellent questions today. Perhaps, Sir John, you could ask the PM to pose such questions in a speech of sufficient grandeur that the invited Press have no option but to show it in full. Lancaster House might be appropriate. This will need doing before the Rotten Parliament returns.

  13. formula57
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    But thanks in good part to May the Quisling’s unchecked antics, are we not getting 3. anyway, “… so our forces typically are deployed for EU led missions”?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

      It seems so. What a disingenuous, dire and pathetic woman Theresa May is. Let us hope Boris can still recover from the dire mess she bequeathed him and we can still leave the EU and avoid Corbyn/SNP.

  14. steve
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    My answer is a resounding NO !

  15. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    You did hear from me on your last post, John, but as far as I can see you didn’t publish all my comments.

    I share the declared aims of the European Union. They were stated in the 1975 pamphlet sent to every single electoral address in the UK, and they are unchanged. They indicated very clearly, the sort of arrangement that we have today, and which is still working towards those ends. They are:

    To bring together the peoples of Europe.

    To raise living standards and improve working conditions.

    To promote growth and boost world trade.

    To help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world.

    To help maintain peace and freedom.

    So the claim by Nigel Farage and others, that the electorate had “no idea” for what they were voting back then is utterly false, and I think that he and the rest know that very well.

    In so far as the claimed aspirations that you state might assist those ends, then I would perhaps support them. However they are mostly just that, and any state could veto many of them.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      Well they have certainly done huge damage to all the above.

    • Woody
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:48 am | Permalink

      Interesting response.
      The eu have clearly divided people in their attempt to enslave them … see our situation driven entirely by anti democratic pro eu bigots.
      Ask greece, and italy, and france, and spain if their standards of living have improved.
      The eu share of the world market has fallen consistently over the years and his heading for recession thanks to its insular protectionist and restrictive policies.
      I had to laugh about the bit about helping the poorest nations and the rest of the world. See above comment.
      Ask the ukraine if the eu helped peace or created their dispute with russia entlrely due to the eu’s empire building … any organisation that moves towards creating its own army is clearly preparing for conflict .. especially as NATO has been very effective in protecting peace to date .. despite little input form certain eu nations.

      The rabid response by the pro eu parties denying the request for a general election to seek the peoples authority is not a good sign of a democratic future of the eu.

    • dixie
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      Well I voted No in the first referendum and being a student did not receive your precious pamphlet.

      In any case we were voting on the Common Market/EEC and not the EU which did not come in to being till the 1992 Maastricht treaty on which we had no say and no vote.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      In 1975, I was a keen joiner! I really was. Brigitte Bardot! WOW! French wines! Gasp! Holidays in Spain by AEROPLANE! WOW!

      Si la jeunesse savait…

    • Martyn G
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      ‘To help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world’.
      Like they did for Greece and Italy, perhaps? Removal of elected politicians and in one case at least substituting them with EU technocrats has hardly brought about prosperity and full employment for them, so what sort of help was that?

    • Edward2
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      Those were the vague aims of a simple trading group of six similar nations called the Common Market.
      Shame we diverted from that as it morphed into a superstate.
      You were laughed at by people like you if you predicted a United States of Europe back then.

    • Enrico
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

      According to all the pollsters a large amount of the remain voters were under the age of 34 so the 1975 pamphlet is utter rubbish as they would not even know of its existence.Just another load of nonsense from yet another remainer.

    • William Potter
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:36 am | Permalink

      That was to see if we wanted to stay in the Common Market they no longer apply as the Common Market no longer exists. Looking at the bullet points you produce the eu does not stick by them any longer.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:37 am | Permalink

      MiC

      So

      It does not mention enlargement to 28 and beyond , 4 freedoms , single markets and doesn’t mention a customs union although that was what it was from day one , it doesn’t mention a European Arrest Warrant, ECJ or a European Defence Force

      Some of us were actually involved in that campaign and I can tell you that when questions were raised about federalism etc they were all dismissed as being not true

      Anyway glad to see you still cant answer the question. By the way of the 5 things cited why do you need a Federal Politburo to achieve them. All of those aims are achievable 1) By individual countries 2) Better by a far larger organisation like the Commonwealth

      • libertarian
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        Martin

        Also you claim the aim is to bring together the people of Europe, well thats a continent of 54 countries which includes Putins Russia, who knew that they were joining, no wonder the EU dont like the USA

    • David Taylor
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      Martin , the aims stated in the 1975 pamphlet are all admirable and ” To bring together the peoples of Europe” is wonderfully ambiguous given the shrouded long term aim of the EU Project , a Europe run through Brussels & Strasbourg , financially controlled by the ECB
      It is also clear that all the aims stated in the pamphlet can be achieved by , self governed , independent nations , working together as a trading bloc , not joined together as a Federalised entity , controlled by appointed apparatchiks .

    • Dan Earley
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:45 am | Permalink

      Whilst those aims may be laudable and many people would agree with them, they do not tie in with the questions posted as they do not explain the method by which the EU attempt to achieve them, ie, suborning sovereignty from member states. As for whether the EU is achieving them, the state of Greece and the other southern European nations suggest that they are doing the opposite.

    • agricola
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      Laudable aspirations, just the meatless bone of political speak. You should have added that they all lived happily thereafter.

      1. It has not brought the people of Europe together, in fact it is now tending to divide them.

      2. Speak to the people of Mediterranean Europe about living standards. They are way behind those in northern Europe.

      3.They have not promoted growth except in Germany. There is no way you can promote World trade if you live behind the wall of protectionism that is the EU.

      4. The poorest regions of the EU have been turned into dependants hoping for alms from the north. The rest of the World, especially the third world would benefit from open trade rather than aid. They do not get it when faced with the self interest of the EU.

      5. Your last point is utter nonsense. NATO backed by the USA has ensured peace from outside aggressors in Europe. Europe’s defence capability is no better than it was prior to WW2. They prefer to live on the back of US defence capability. Whenever they need to step up they are silent, the Straits of Hormuz being their latest back down.

      The electorate of the UK were most definitely mislead by omission in 1975. They were most definitely not told that the ultimate aim was a united states of Europe. The smokescreen was trade enhancement.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:48 am | Permalink

      Martin in Cardiff,

      The 1975 pamphlet (with the EC aims) was clear that “It is the Council of Ministers, … who take the important decisions. These decisions can be taken only if all the members of the Council agree.” This was the no loss of sovereignty situation to which the UK electorate agreed.

      With Maastricht 92/93, i.e. the creation of the EU, competences were extended as was the use of QMV. With Lisbon and the double majority method Council adoption was further eased. Neither Major nor Blair gave the electorate the chance to agree to this.

      I think it is somewhat disingenuous to refer back to the 1975 EC pamphlet and ignore the enormous changes since then, not least the creation of the EU.

    • steve
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      MiC

      “….but as far as I can see you didn’t publish all my comments.”

      I wonder why that was.

      You didn’t call us ‘English grovellers’ again, did you ?

      You appear to be a great ambassador for your country. So much so that I will certainly be asking my MP to call for the scrapping of free prescriptions for the back stabbing peripheral regions.

      If that’s your attitude mate why should we be having you scrounge off the rest of us.

    • Chris
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      To raise living standards…You must be joking. 40% youth unemployment in Spain, and not much lower in Greece have been recorded during the last few years. Terrible for the people (as opposed to the eurocrats). What hope do they have for the future?

    • rose
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      “To help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world.”

      It doesn’t help poor countries in Eastern Europe to drain them of their working populations. Lithuania, for example, had to start an Anti-Emigration Party which topped the poll but couldn’t of course override EU power.

      How does it help Africa to prevent then from selling us coffee and chocolates, for example? Only the Europeans are allowed to make them and the Africans are confined to selling their beans.

    • Jiminyjim
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

      So, MiC, you’re in favour of Motherhood and Apple Pie, I see. Please credit us with some brains to see through your comments. Why not start by trying to answer our host’s questions?

    • DLP
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:42 am | Permalink

      Martin in Cardiff. There was no mention of expanding to 28 countries and more, no mention of a single currency, no mention of an eu army, no mention of open borders, no mention of eu law overruling UK law if they conflict.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      Martin in Cardiff

      I do not usually respond to so called Remainers here as I view them as little more than Trolls, the exception being, Acorn and PvL as they have been here pre-EU referendum. But I make an exception in your case as I think it does deserve a considered response.

      To bring together the peoples of Europe.

      Failed. Otherwise, why are we Leaving.

      To raise living standards and improve working conditions.

      Failed. Youth unemployment in Eurozone countries is astronomical. eg Spain and Greece. This in turn leads to poor living standards if you do not have a job.

      To promote growth and boost world trade.

      Failed. Germany is heading for recession. The EU share of global GDP is falling.

      To help the poorest regions of Europe and the rest of the world.

      Failed. Greece, Spain, Portugal, Italy just to name some have seen their economies contract. Even Germany is slipping. The EU’s Customs Union prohibits developed countries and countries with cheaper agricultural products from entering their market. The EU is anti-trade.

      To help maintain peace and freedom.

      Failed. Notwithstanding that it has been NATO that has kept the peace, the EU, or more to the point Germany, have created civil war in Europe. First by recognizing Slovenia which began the breakup of Yugoslavia, and then, pressuring Ukraine to sign an association agreement that would antagonize Russia and Russians living in Ukraine, starting a civil war there.

      Nice try but 0 out of 10.

    • pauline baxter
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

      Martin in Cardiff. Raise living standards? We pay FAR more for FOOD and household power for instance, than we would outside the EU.
      Promote Growth and Boost WORLD trade. We are locked in to a protectionist block that prevents us participating in WORLD trade.
      Help maintain peace and freedom. So why do they need an army? You can’t help being ignorant of history I suppose. OK it was England rather than UK that had Magna Carta. Surely even you know that UK has remained FREE throughout all the previous attempts to impose an Empire of Europe. Help the poor regions of Europe? Like destroying Greece’s economy? Bring together the peoples of Europe. WHY? I say again – are you frit to stand alone?

  16. David J
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:12 am | Permalink

    Great questions
    We constantly here what the remainers don’t want.
    This is the perfect opportunity to say what they do want.

    Good riddance to Master Bercow. The blatant bias will not be missed

    • Christine
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      The speaker has stepped down now so that he can pass the remain batten on to another pro-remain speaker whilst the commons has a remain majority. It will be this Parliament who selects the next speaker.

  17. Shirley
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    I see there is a Parliamentary call to view the governments documents. I would love to see the minutes of those meetings held in Brussels between the Remainers and the EU. Maybe we could do a ‘swap’?

    • Woody
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

      Its one law for the europhiles, or in the case of labour the oppose everything for any reasons ophiles, and one law for the democratically elected government.

    • steve
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      Shirley

      Good point !

      Though I doubt that for example records of traitor Blair’s interfering exists.

  18. wes
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    not many remoaner replies to your questionnaire then?

    Maybe you should make it easier to understand.

  19. JimS
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:17 am | Permalink

    A comment frequently made by ‘remainers’ during the referendum campaign was that they thought the EU needed to be reformed.

    They never made it clear what needed to be reformed or by what mechanism that reform was to be achieved.

    I have noticed many times that when people form alliances to get ‘change’ when they do get power the changes that they want mutually contradict each other.

    • Andy
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      The EU does need reform.

      So does Westminster.

      So does my my local council.

      So does the local supermarket.

      What’s your point?

      • libertarian
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Exactly and THAT IS THE POINT

        In order to reform them all you MUST start at the TOP So First we scrap the EU , then the House of Lords , then we change the electoral system

        One step at a time. Glad you’ve finally woken up and got on board the leave train

      • Christine
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:59 pm | Permalink

        The point is:

        We can vote for our MPs

        We can vote for our councillors

        We can choose which supermarket we shop at

        We CAN’T elect the Commission or the Presidents who propose all EU legislation

  20. Ian Kaye
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Why don’t governments target the interest bill on the National Debt?Throughout the 19 th century holders of Consols were invited to accept a lower rate of interest,via the process of Conversion.The money saved could then be used to reduce VAT.It is an abomination that the entire gilt market is above par.

  21. steadyeddie
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    A simplistic and unsubstantiated list of pointless questions, not supported by any of the 27 other members who continue to work together for a stronger and more prosperous Europe. This 20th century view of the 21st century will be shown to make the UK poorer and with less influence in the world with no real benefits to our citizens.

    • Woody
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      OR, leaving will allow the UK to thrive and grow in the real world where the future lies .. and all evidence to date is that is happening … despite the europhile hypocrites blocking progress at every step.

    • William Potter
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

      The eu is already making us poorer by paying companies to move elsewhere, inside and outside the eu.

    • graham1946
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      Not working though is it? Stronger and more prosperous – like Greece, busted, Italy on the brink of financial collapse, France 100 percent of GDP in debt, Germany in recession and 64 percent in debt, high youth unemployment, 3 millions (at least) of their citizens in the UK to escape the utopia, most countries taking bungs to keep afloat whilst a few foot the bill.

      They’ve been at it for 60 odd years. How long does an experiment have to run for before it is recognised as a failure? To keep doing the same thing and expect a different result – insanity. Perhaps you would be kind enough to explain how exactly we will become poorer by not subsiding this monster and how we will lose influence, of which we have virtually none in the EU. As you have not been able to provide any actual positives for the EU perhaps you could have a go at the negatives for the UK, with some facts not just pages of unsubstantiated nonsense put out by Remainers who can only think of a few things to repeat over and over.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

      Steadyeddie:

      Why not try answering our host’s question anyway? As you think we Brexiteers are brainless, then you’ll understand why the points are ‘simplistic’. Evasion doesn’t prove your argument, whatever that argument is. (Difficult to fathom.)

      Go on – try winning some hearts and minds.

  22. villaking
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Sir John,
    As a Remainer, no to all of those points, I am very happy with the opt outs we have which prevent us from having to go down that path. Our form of membership is unique and very privileged and it is a tragedy that it will soon be over. The sort of membership that I want is what we have now with the pursuant benefits: seamless trade in goods and services in the world’s most successful and largest Single Market, no tariff or non-tarfiff barriers to trade with our main trading partners, enhanced security through security cooperation, participation in collaborative projects like Galileo, free movement within the EU so that my children can enjoy the experience of uninhibited travel within the EU and live where they want as I did as a young man, an open market connected to the Single Market to encourage FDI, influential membership of a large global organisation that gives us significant global influence. There are other benefits, but I don’t believe you are genuinely interested.

    • Pud
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      As a Leaver, I see the disadvantages inherent in the advantages you allege.
      “seamless trade in goods and services”
      Companies that don’t trade with EU countries must still follow EU rules.
      “no tariff or non-tariff barriers to trade”
      The UK can’t set its own tariffs, so we have to pay tariffs that protect EU producers
      “enhanced security through security cooperation”
      Why do we need to be a member of the EU (with all the associated costs) to cooperate on security?
      “free movement”
      Remainers don’t seem to realise that it was not difficult to holiday and work in European countries before we joined the EEC. The downside of free movement is low-skilled workers undercut UK wages (but as the lady on Question Time infamously said, you do get your coffee made for you).
      “influence”
      Our influence in the EU has been progressively diluted as more countries join and more vetoes are lost. We aren’t enhancing our influence in the world if the EU position disagrees with ours, we are effectively backing a position we don’t support.

      Not to mention we have to obey other EU rules e.g. we can’t remove VAT from products once it has been charged on them.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      I wanted that too. It is called the EFTA solution, trashed (of course) as “The Norway Option”.

      Now the moment is past. We have to leave – or accept the whole package, I am afraid.

      • Jagman84
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

        EFTA still leaves you ruled over by the ECJ, Mike. Plus lots of EU laws to make us less competitive than EU member states. It’s moment never existed, IMHO.

    • Dan Earley
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

      Villaking, we can have virtually all those things without being a member of the EU. Show me one nation that does not have access to the single market, is not allowed to travel throughout Europe or maintain trade with those nations. As for security, there are reasons that no European country other than the UK is a member of the 5-eyes Intelligence Alliance, they are not very good and leak like a sieve. I could go on but I don’t believe you are interested.

      • villaking
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

        Dan Earley, no you can’t get all of those benefits without being a member of the EU. That is the “cake and eat it” myth. On November 1st (or perhaps later depending on whether it’s a no-deal or not) my company will have to appoint an EU representative to continue selling our regulated products in the EU (which costs money) and our EU customers will have to pay tariffs of between 4% and 6% when they import them – which they are sure to want to pass onto us. There is no country on earth outside of the Single Market that enjoys seamless trade with the EU with zero tariffs and non-tariff barriers and no non-EU country whose citizens can live and work anywhere within the EU as of right.

      • pauline baxter
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

        Thank you Dan Earley. You’ve saved me the bother of answering Villaking. I’m bored with him and MiC. So far No remainer has answered sir John’s questions has he.
        Instead of triggering Article 50 after the referendum we should have simply repealed the 1973 ECA Act. Gerrard Batten warned us Article 50 was a trap. Look where it has landed us. Of course May was a Remainer and we still have basically the same Remainer HoC she got for us in her unnecessary GE. If Boris succeeds which I expect, hopefully we will have political parties with some integrity. It may eventually be good that our Democracy has had close scrutiny.

    • Ignoramus
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      No tariffs within the EU but many tariffs with the rest of the world, resulting among other things in higher food prices here than if we could trade tariff free elsewhere and obstacles to African exports.
      Being somewhat older than Villaking I remember traveling round Europe before the EU with just a passport (still required).
      Galileo is expensive, very late, unnecessary and a prestige symbol,

  23. Roy Grainger
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Well no, but they DO want their middle-class children to be able to travel round France on their gap years and do a bit of light bar work while they’re there, eh Andy ?

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      Roy Grainger,

      I think you have nailed it here.

      I suspect many of the remainers do not live among those who have felt the impact on social mobility. Hoen et al’s (IZA Institute of Labor Economics) research based on Norway data found,

      “immigration from low‐income countries has reduced social mobility and thus steepened the social gradient in natives’ labor market outcomes, whereas immigration from high‐income countries has leveled it. Given the large inflow of immigrants from low-income countries to Norway since the early 1990s, this can explain a considerable part of the relative decline in economic performance among natives with lower class background, and also rationalize the apparent polarization of sentiments toward immigration.”

      I don’t know a reason why the UK would be different.

  24. Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    They have no idea John.

    Their TV sets and radios tell them what to do. 15 min sound bites repeated over and over again with the words cliff edge is about all that they know.

    The biggest mistake ever made will haunt the Tories for decades to come. Allowing the media to own and create the false no deal narrative. As soon as they put May in charge they went to work and made no deal poison.

    Especially when there is no such thing as a no deal brexit. Johnson missed a trick the very first day he should have said Canada plus or we are leaving on WTO. Especially since we had already been offered it.

    Since leave won if there is another referendum that should be the 2 options on the ballot paper.

    • Chris
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      Some good points, DH. Yes, the Cons did stand back and they failed to act when they should have done. They are now feeling the effects of that and are in the fight of their lives.

  25. MickN
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    The Labour cabal sang the red flag when surely the white flag would be more appropriate.
    Oh and SIR Ollie Robbins and LORD Barwell have made me bring up my breakfast. In times gone by they would both be in the Tower not the Lords.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:48 am | Permalink

      Exactly.

    • rose
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:18 am | Permalink

      And Darroch.

  26. Everhopeful
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Off topic sorry.
    BUT why on earth would my very Brexit supporting MP have NOT VOTED re an early Election?
    More confused by the second.
    How dreadful really to know virtually nothing about the ways of my govt.
    No wonder they have managed to trick me.

  27. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    No x 6

    I would like a trade area with common standards to trade only within that area with each country free to make it’s own standards outside of trade within that area.

    I would like regular meetings between relevant ministers to facilitate cooperation and collaboration in certain areas to which we are not statutorily bound.

    I do not want one president, let alone five and I don’t want to pay for more politicians. I accept that there needs to be some form of civil service to run it.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      But the UK has lots of unelected presidents too:

      The President of the Law Commission
      The President of the Board of Trade
      The President of the Queen’s Bench Division
      The President of the Family Division
      The President of the Supreme Court
      The Lord President of the Council, the Leader of the House, one Jacob Rees-Mogg

      …and more, but the European Union does not have any “president” with executive powers, and the supreme authority remains the Council of the twenty-eight leaders of the democracies.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

        What a ridiculous argument Martin.
        To compare the huge powers the Prsidents of the EU Commission has and compare it those in that list.
        The first two make no laws and act like a normal Chairperson.
        The next three are learned judges appointed and monitored with great care by their profession.
        And the last person is elected by his voters in his constituency then appointed by the Prime Minister who is also elected by his local voters before bring elected leader of his party by all the members of that party.
        PS
        The Council have little law making powers.
        They only meet for a chat a few times a year.
        The real power of law making in the is the unelected Commissioners and the appointed Presidents

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

        Each of the five presidents claims to authoritatively represent the EU in some forum or other.

        You can not say the same for the positions that you have listed Marty.

        Nothing to say about the standardised rule book for all goods and all cooperation,

  28. Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    Amazing – when you ask for an honest contribution from the remoaners they suddenly have nothing to say…. That suggests more than a reluctance on their part to explain the benefits of the EU….
    Most remaoners live in some fantasy world regarding the EU, which bears no resemblance to reality whatsoever.
    The list is very mild actually in terms of what the EU is. If we are going to start asking the remoaners for their views on the EU, I would certainly add a few points about known future plans, as well as it’s failure to support democratic decisions, etc, as they allegedly place their version of democracy above anything else.

  29. Andy
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    I have no objection to any of these.

    They make us richer. They make us safer. They make us stronger.

    All things we should want for our country.

    And, one correction, you heard from nearly all of your pro-Remain contributors yesterday.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:27 am | Permalink

      Typical glib remoaner remark with with no facts behind it

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      Andy, yes, but their answers were largely incomprehensible and did not provide the information asked for.

    • Woody
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      We were the 3rd largest world economy in 1975 when we were joined to the eec/eu we are now 6th largest .. thanks a bunch eu. I can assure you we are weaker and less safe not being able to control our own borders.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      Andy

      HOW do they do that?

    • a-tracy
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      Andy

      They make some of us richer (but not the many poverty levels have risen).
      They make some of us safer (but not if you live in London!)
      They make us stronger (how?)

    • libertarian
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

      Andy

      Are you sure? Take a look at EU countries and compare

      New jobs figures released today by the ONS show average pay leaping to a growth rate of 4% in the last year, the fastest increase in over a decade, and twice the rate of inflation. Unemployment continues to tumble, seeing its lowest levels in 45 years, and the last year saw over 300,000 more full time jobs than a year ago.

      Meanwhile Germany is the sick man of Europe and the French are still rioting

      Anyone would think you lived in a fantasy world on your palatial unicorn farm

      • bill brown
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

        Libertarian,

        Lots of the smaller countries in Europe have created jobs as well and have low unemployment as the UK and significant pay increases as well.
        Spain has created over 1 million jobs over the past three years.

        I am not sure that Andy is totally as wrong as you present it and therefore some of your comments are as usual unnecessary.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

          Hans

          Spain has 14% adult unemployment and 37% youth unemployment

      • Andy
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

        Germany’s economy is going through a rough patch. As Ireland’s did for a few years. Tell me – what’s Ireland’s growth rate now? And Malta? How’s that doing?

        And what about the 13 other EU countries that grew faster than the US in 2018? How can this be when the big bad EU is the problem?

        The awkward reality for you is that, as 28 sovereign states, at any given time some will be doing well – some will be doing badly. And, yes, some Eurozone countries are doing well while others are not.

        Brexiteers can’t engage with these actual facts because they prove that most of your objections to the EU are based on untruths.

        • a-tracy
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

          Ireland is referred to as a tax haven because of the country’s taxation and economic policies. Ireland’s taxation rate for corporations is 12.5%. In addition, Ireland only charges a corporate tax rate of 6.25% for revenue tied to a company’s patent or intellectual property.

          Nov 2018 The European Commission has become the latest influential body to raise concerns about the sustainability of the State’s corporation tax base.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Whoops

      Irish cider and beer maker C&C Group, whose brands include Magners and Bulmers ciders as well as Tennants lager, said it will seek admission to London’s FTSE and discontinue its Irish stock market listing, simultaneously switching its financial reporting from euros to sterling from October 7, the company announced this morning. The company will cancel its listing in Dublin

  30. J Bush
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    My answers are No to all and may I submit another question
    7. Would you like your children and grandchildren conscripted into the EU army?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      As I have been warning for years …and advised to get my tin foil hat.
      However…even though they say we have a veto on entering an E.U. army they are definitely wangling around at Defence conferences etc.
      And how on earth can we trust what they say?
      Better to look at the very worst scenario.

    • Andy
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:25 am | Permalink

      Even if there was an EU army – which there isn’t …

      Even if there was going to be an EU army in the ‘fighting force’ context you mean – which there won’t be….

      Why do you think it will conscript anyone anyway?

      It is just more ridiculous Brexiteer scaremongering.

      • Posted September 10, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

        Because that’s the way the EU operates – First they deny, then lie outright – then they finally announce it when they think everyone had forgotten…

        It would have be a conscripted army because nobody in their right mind would join otherwise

      • libertarian
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Whoops

        European countries are reviving plans for compulsory national service, report in European CEO magazine

        Get your kids cleaning their boots and making their beds Andy they will be doing military service on the Russian front

      • Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:59 pm | Permalink

        Andy – why should a trading bloc need an army, ‘fighting force’ or otherwise?

        All those ‘sovereign countries’ (?) in the EU have their own armies, under their own control. The EU isn’t a country. How, exactly, would the chain of command work? That means who would control it, by the way, Andy. Let’s guess, shall we?

    • Cees
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

      J Bush..you should join up yourself- ask them for a frontline posting so you can get a good view..stupid

  31. George Brooks
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    The ardent Remainers both in and outside parliament have absolutely no regard for the damage they are inflicting on the UK.

    We are now in the same position as we were in 1940/41 with Europe just about to invade this country and squash the life out of it.

    Those MPs trying to tie the PM’s hands over a ”no deal” and ordering him to seek an extension are no more than dishonest collaborators. From the outset they have wanted to kill Brexit and deny the people’s vote by whatever means they can.

    I hope and prey that Boris finds a way to let the 14 days from 18th October slip away and we depart from the EU on 31st.

    Dominic is right. Boris can be our saviour or put us in jail.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      Indeed and they still have the temerity (like Hillary Benn) to complain about the language ….. traitors, the surrender Bill, collaborators, quislings.

      If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is a duck. Everyone can see exactly what these traitors are doing. Tony Benn would surely have seen it this way as would Churchill.

    • tim
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

      George Brooks- absolutely right, we are at war. But the HOC are controlled by a foreign power, crippled by political correctness. The next thing will be H&S says we cant leave, and we can not tell you why because “DATE Protection act”. To get our freedom is going to take longer than both world wars together.

  32. Mike Wilson
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:50 am | Permalink

    Let’s have a bit of common sense here.

    Freedom of movement is a great thing generally although it does create issues. Some sort of limits would have been a good thing. Oh, hang on, limits were allowed but OUR government ignored them.

    The Single Market is self evidently a good idea.

    A Customs Union is self evidently a good idea.

    The stuff about trade and people is good. Common action on the environment, cooperation on lots of different matters – all good.

    The single currency and the ambition for an undemocratic political union are what made me vote to leave. And the level of our budget contributions.

    We are not in the Euro and had agreed we were not going to be included in ever closer union.

    Our politicians are useless. After the referendum a LEADER would have said; ‘Okay, a small majority want to Leave. Clearly being in the Single Market and Customs Union are not only good things, they are a fundamental and structural part of our economy. Freedom of Movement is enjoyed by millions of us – we can even take our pets abroad easily. But, clearly, you want it controlled. I will negotiate our exit from the EU – but keeping as many of the good bits as we can. If people don’t like it and feel strongly enough about it, they can vote in a government in the future that promises them whatever they feel they want.’

    Instead we had Cameron who immediately resigned! And the Tory Party then lumbered is with May who couldn’t negotiate a discount on a new car.

    Sorry all you posters on here. The problem is our useless politicians and our useless political system.

    I reluctantly voted Leave. It being a fool I can see both sides of an argument and the argument was finely balanced. Our politicians have made such an appalling mess of this I would now vote to Remain. Not because I have changed my mind about the dangers of an undemocratic political union, but because the May deal or No Deal are just so stupid.

    • Newmania
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      Salutations Mike Wilson

      What a refreshingly fair minded post .Funnily enough according to polling I have seen a Norway option( or something like it ) is the ‘least disliked’ by all sides which shows there are more people like you than one might imagine
      My emphasis is different and my diagnosis not quite the same but overall I could find common ground. If only the reasonable majority could sit down and sort it out .
      The problem is that for the Conservative Party the only thing that matters is snuffing out the Brexit Party. The Brexit Party has got itself into the absurd position of claiming any deal at all is not real Brexit and so the Conservative Party follows suit in a race to the extremes .
      There are a great many leavers who , in their calmer moments do not think that telling half the country to stick their views up their collective fundament can be a resting place , nor is it really democratic.

      They , of course do not spend their lives posting jejune google -guff in CAPITAL letters DO THEY ?

    • HJ
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:07 am | Permalink

      “The Single Market is self evidently a good idea.

      A Customs Union is self evidently a good idea.”

      It’s not self evident at all.

      There is quite a lot of evidence that competing regulatory regimes with mutual recognition of standards is more economically beneficial than centralised ‘one size fits all’ regulation, i.e a common market is better than a single market.

      The Customs Union may have the benefit of zero tariffs within the CU, but it has the disadvantage that we are required to tax many of our imports (and send the revenue to the EU) to protect inefficient EU producers – and we can’t change this. Indeed, any reduction of tariffs or removal of quotas has to be decided unanimously and some countries thereby have an incentive to protect an important industry at the expense of the EU as a whole.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

        I am far from suggesting that the EU is perfect or that the Customs Union is perfect. But in this increasingly environmentally sensitive world, it makes sense to trade with our neighbours rather than sending goods thousands of miles around the globe. Therefore a Customs Union with our close neighbours makes sense. Not perfect, but sensible. Also, some import tariffs against remote countries with far lower labour costs than ours seems like a good idea to me. Unless you want every bit of manufacturing outsourced leaving this country exposed to the whims of others.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 12, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

          Mike Wilson

          I dont wish to be rude but this kind of unthought out nonsense drives me mad

          OK as you like analogies . If everyone chose to only send their goods to close neighbours and not to customers over 1,000 miles away please list

          How many mobile phones would be in use in Europe? answer none they all come from South Korea & USA

          How many computers would be in use in Europe ? Answer none they all come from USA

          Humira – the biggest taken drug in the world comes from USA

          You are suggesting we should only sell airplane engines to EU and not to Boeing in USA

          We DO NOT TRADE with countries WE TRADE with PEOPLE ( customers) who want to buy our products

          A customs union is a device to protect some home markets from competition, innovation and price reduction

          Think about it man

    • tim
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      Mike Wilson– Parliament’s legal intention for the UK to leave the EU is not conditional upon a withdrawal agreement
      no deal allows the UK government to scrap thousands of import tariffs on non-EU imports, which will reduce prices; to save £39billion; to regain control of fishing and to increase the level of democracy in the country.”

    • libertarian
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Mike Wilson

      Why is a single market self evidently a good idea ?

      You think like Donald Trump then with a protected market ( customs union ) being a self evident good idea, that hilarious , its a dreadful idea and the source of most of the failures and problems of the EU

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

        Libertarian: You ask ‘Why is a single market self evidently a good idea’

        Let’s say I run a company – company B. You run company A. You buy components from me which you use to build, say, televisions. As well as making components for televisions, I also have a division that retails them. I buy the finished televisions from your company.

        If we have a Single Market that we are both in – we have agreed standards for our goods and every time I supply you with components you simply use them. You don’t have to check their certification or test them. Likewise I don’t have to check the safety of the televisions you provide – I sell them on without having to go through loads of checks.

        Now, which would you prefer? That every time I take delivery of your televisions I have to check every batch – check they conform to all relevant standards before I sell them – and, likewise, you have to check every batch of components I send you etc. Or, would you prefer for everything to already be checked and approved and all that checking and paperwork rendered obsolete.

        I know which I’d prefer. Likewise with the customs union. No tariffs or low agreed tariffs – or regular trade wars with tariffs as the weapon? As Trump and China are engaged in now.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

          You obviously don’t trade in and outside of the EU Mike.
          Very briefly
          All goods moving around the world have to be compliant in the markets they are used in.
          The compliance process is done by the seller.
          Documentation and marking on the product is provided.
          If the purchaser want to check the goods they have purchased then they are free to do so.
          But this process happens inside the EU and everywhere else in the world.
          There is very little difference in the amount of paperwork in dealing with the EU and dealing with other nations.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      Thank you Mike, you support what I have often claimed, that most Leave voters are normal, pragmatic, reasonable people.

      In other words, the silly threats from the fanatics, that if they do not get the most distant, hostile relationship with the European Union possible, then there will be riots and lynchings, are utter nonsense.

      They are a minority even amongst the seventeen million, and a very small one indeed amongst the wider population.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

        The Single Market and the Customs Union is the beating heart of the EU
        The EU has repeatedly said you cannot be in both if you are not an EU member state and agree to meet all laws regulations directives and rules made by the EU and pay annual fees.
        What you want cannot be had.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        Oh stop telling stupid lies.

        I have NEVER heard any Leaver wanting to have a hostile relationship with the EU. We just want to leave and NOT be part of the single market ( actually theres no such thing, its an internal market to give it its proper name) or the customs union . We dont want to be subject to the free movement of people or ECJ. In order to achieve that we have to leave, its the right thing to do by both us and for the EU to retain its integrity. Trying to force the EU to give us a deal we dont want or need is beyond pathetic .

        Of course you dont want a deal either you just want to remain against the democratic wishes

        • bill brown
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

          Libertarian

          Behave properly

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      Mike Wilson,

      Why are a single market and customs union self-evidently good ideas?

      Apart from the latter leading to trade diversion, the problems of running progressive trade policy on a heterogeneous area (e.g. treatment of Cambodian and Myanmar rice), and the extreme case of weaponizing trade, there are more fundamental questions about trade.

      The trade that is justified through comparative advantage presumes a world of scarcity and can box some into that economic mindset, rather than thinking of how to organise a world of abundance. The trade that is due to vast monopolistic choice (how many toothpastes do you need?) leads to some of the smartest humans efforts going into marketing and advertising. The trade that is based on achieving scale economies leads to powerful monopolies which in turn distort democracy and often exacerbates both wealth and income inequality (return to K vs returns to L) and the social impacts thereof.

      Don’t get me wrong, I am pro-trade, it has developed the world and allowed billions to live who otherwise would not have existed. Nonetheless there are major issues with it which lead me to want the UK to debate and develop its trade policy at a national level.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      Mike Wilson,

      I do agree that Cameron should be criticised for walking but he should be congratulated for giving the electorate a say (in complete contrast to Major).

      I also agree with your criticism on the quality of politicians. I find it worrying that it had to be an Eton educated PM that gave the electorate the choice, an Eton educated chair that raised the voice of the ERG and now an Eton educated PM that fights to defend the result of a democratic vote. Orwell warned of the risks of, mass suggestion, standardized education and creation of a breed of men that do not desire liberty. It concerns me greatly that Eton now stands as the last UK defence for democracy.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 9:24 am | Permalink

        Caterpillar

        Youre worried about Eton, but not Oxford or Cambridge how quaint

        I prefer to go with Dr Martin Luther King jr , its the content of their character.

        • Caterpillar
          Posted September 11, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

          I am not worried about Eton, I am worried that it seems to be Eton voices that are the loudest for democracy. I am worried that standardized education is not producing such loud voices. I am worried that content of character is losing a desire for liberty.

    • a-tracy
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:48 am | Permalink

      “08 May 2010 Daily Telegraph”
      All 27 EU finance ministers have been summoned to Brussels on Sunday to sign up to a “European stabilisation mechanism. Britain will be unable to veto this as it will be put through under the “qualified majority voting” system.

      The deal, effectively to shore up the euro, was denounced as a “stitch-up” last night after it emerged Nicolas Sarkozy, the French President and Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor, had devised it behind closed doors and were attempting to push it through at a time when there is no clear government in Britain.”

    • BR
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

      Assertions. All we ever get from remainers is assertions. Debates are not won by people who assert that something is “self evident” or that it’s “a great thing generally”. – if it’s so obvious to you and you’re so smart then you should be able to explain why it’s so self evident.

      I suggest you read some stuff on WTO aims and why customs unions and FTAs/SM are working against the interests of world trade and prosperity. Reading the Grauniad is no substitute.

      1.3m is not a small majority. And a majority of 1 is all it takes in a democracy for their side to win all the beans – and a democreacy only work if the losers accept the decision, or you end up as Zimbabwe. In a GE, if an MP wins by 1 he doesn’t have the other candidate sit in the HoC for 6 months of the year. Nor does he enact almost 50% of their policies. A win by any amount is a win.
      There is no suggestion of keeping what the ‘leader’ deems to be ‘the good bits’. It was made perfectly clear by both sides that we would leave all the EU institutions, so that is what we must do.

      If I had a pound for every remoaner that claims to have voted Leave in 2016 lol.

      Lastly, I notice that you did not address EVEN ONE of the questions in the article as to which parts of the EU and its future you voted for. All in all: extremely weak response.

    • Andy
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

      So you like free movement, the single market and customs union.

      But you voted leave because you think the EU is too expensive.

      How much does the EU cost you personally?

      When you establish that the cost is a handful of pence a day you’ll realise Brexit is not worth it.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

        You mention that I voted leave because it is too expensive. You conveniently ignore the other reason – the loss of democracy because the EU is determined to create a complete political union and become the government.

        And you ask how expensive it is for me – as if the fact that it is a few pence a day for me is some clever point to make. When I say it is too expensive, I say that 11 thousand, million pounds is a lot of money and given the state of public services in this country could be better spent here.

        It has to be said. Your level of argument is puerile. You seem to think that being offensive makes your point.

      • a-tracy
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

        Andy, How much does the EU cost you personally?

        How on earth does anyone calculate that Andy – the tax base isn’t collected from every person in the United Kingdom, children don’t pay tax, nor does every household pay tax many survive on benefits, nearly half of adults don’t pay income taxes at all, many of those that pay vat pay it out of pension credits and benefit credits.

        Also, the membership fee isn’t the only cost, the EU couldn’t run on that figure alone paid by 5-6 members of the 28. So duty taxes on imports of 80% going to the EU what is that actual total for last year do you know?

  33. Newmania
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    Au contraire, I, for one, sketched out the positives. I also, un prompted , answered the gist of your questions.
    Of course one sees the game. You wish to gainsay the argument that no-one voted for No Deal disaster (based, not unreasonably, on the many promises made by .. amongst others .. you) by suggesting one might just as well divide the remain vote like an orange
    Very clever, very debatey.. The problem is there is only one remain ,the real one we have got, and have 40 year experience of . Leave endlessly promised an easy deal,an outright fiscal bonus .
    So yeah yeah ..I get it but its weak, isn`t it . One exists, one does not …simples
    Now we have real Brexit
    Can we not choose between the two realties ?
    No.. and why because the real Brexit would lose

    On the 1-6
    So, No, no.. sort of, somewhat , no, not particularly.
    Interestingly it is you who would like us to have a common border with the EU by opening the Irish land border. That seems unwise to me but otherwise this is a re heat of the same tales that have done the rounds since the 60s .

    • libertarian
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

      Newmaniac

      Stop rambling man, learn to organise your thoughts rationally

      Give a reason that is factual why trading on WTO terms will be an economic disaster

      When does the city move remind me again . Vacancies UP 13%

      Citigroup European chief David Livingstone: ‘Brexit was inevitable from the moment the UK decided not to join the euro’ We believe that the city of London is the most vibrant place to do business and it will remain the hub for our European business

      JP Morgan Chase currently have 159 PAGES of job vacancies based in London

      https://jobs.jpmorganchase.com/ListJobs/All/Country-UK/State-/City-London/Page-1

    • graham1946
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:18 am | Permalink

      It’s the 40 odd years experience that lead us to the leave vote.

      • Newmania
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

        Yes , we know what you don`t like , we do not know what you do like . That is the problem, especially as the promises made by leave have turned out to be entirely false

    • pauline baxter
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

      Newmania. Sorry but I can not follow your argument. You seem to speak a different language to the English I learned.

  34. Wilfrid Whattam
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    From a Left perspective, I could add:

    * Do you want to to be constrained by the Stability and Growth Pact, which severely limits the fiscal freedom of the State?
    * Do you want the Four Freedoms of the Single Market, such that capital controls could never be imposed, non-productive financial flows can continue slopping about the planet, immigration within the EU is uncontrolled, yet severe restrictions are placed on potential migrants from elsewhere?
    * Do you want all business, public sector and private to be forced to run on the same capitalist basis – note how the EU is currently planning to force privatisation of all railways?
    * Do you want nationalisation of utilities to be outlawed?
    * Do you want State assistance to industry, and State ability to pick winners, to be severely constrained?
    * Do you want democratic control of your lives to be thrown away?

    And, I am sure that even now I have understated the restrictions.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

      Those proposals would NEVER get past the European Union’s Parliament, especially now that it will be more to the left following the UK’s exit.

      It seems like they would need treaty change, which would mean referendums in several member states too.

      I doubt your claimed credentials.

  35. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

    Perhaps the only option left is to destroy the EU from within.

    We have elected BXP MEPs which frustrate EU measures;
    We can elect BXP MPs which frustrate introduction of EU regulations;
    In the face of Euro introduction, the population carry on using £s and revert to imperial measures whenever we wish to;
    We put such restrictions on EU traffic into Dover that it becomes cheaper and easier to import non-EU;
    We support companies using non-EU and selling to non-EU countries;
    We ostracise EU companies or any British company which is sold to EU companies, hollowing out our productive capacity.

    There is so much we can do to get “thrown out” of the EU as unwanted members.

    • tim
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      sir joe soap- what if we stopped giving them £18,200,000,000 each year {that was from 2016}

    • rose
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:24 am | Permalink

      They would have to use article 50 again. Expulsion is what it was drawn up for, we are told by remainiac officials.

    • Andy
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:37 am | Permalink

      Petulant and pathetic. Genuinely you are all behaving like toddlers.

      Incidentally – nobody ever stopped you using imperial measurements. Though, if it were so sensible, you might want to ask the government here why imperial has not been taught in our schools for 50 years.

      The rest of us will get on and use metric instead – which is far more sensible.

    • pauline baxter
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

      Good ideas joe soap and tim. Nigel Farage MEP might support us from within.

  36. Cheshire Girl
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    No, to all.

  37. Lifelogic
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:00 am | Permalink

    No X 6.

    Plus do you want a racist open door to all in the EU immigration system (with no quality controls) but huge restriction on people from other countries.

    Do you want to pay taxes to subsidise the housing, schooling, social and other other costs of low paid immigration.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      I see that many people who were foolishly persuaded to buy solar roof panels ( in a huge government pushed mis-selling scandal) and suing as they are failing to give anything like the return promised.

      We should kill all taxpayers subsidies for wind, solar or electric cars now. Let this technology stand on their own merits or die.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      There is no European Union immigration system nor policy. It is entirely a sovereign matter for member states. Movement of our fellow Europeans around our common home is a separate matter.

      Immigration to the UK from developing countries, by people willing to work for lower wages than Europeans has already increased to replace them.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 10, 2019 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

        There is an EU policy.
        It is created by their fundamental policy of Freedom of Movement which members have to agree to.
        Anyone living in the EU can move to any member nation.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

          That is no more immigration than is a Scotsman moving to London or a Welsh woman moving to Belfast.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

            A few hundred thousands of extra new arrivals a year.
            A city the size of Southampton is therefore needed every single year.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 11, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

            Martin in Cardiff

            Theres big difference actually

            Someone in Wales has been paying in taxes etc all their lives before they move to Belfast

            Someone coming from Romania hasn’t paid anything in but still has the same benefits . Thats unsustainable.

            The only way it could be made to work is if the 28 countries became one harmonised Federal entity with fully harmonised federal taxes .

            YOU repeatedly claim this is NOT the case. We repeatedly say that it has to be in order to work , thats why we want out , because it doesn’t work as a model

  38. Kevin
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    The failure to get an election now may be a good thing. According to Mr. Farage,
    our Prime Minister is “going all out for Mrs. May’s deal”, which, of course, he has
    managed to vote for previously. This would pit “landslide Boris”, apparently
    making the case for the WA, against Labour, making the case for Remain. This,
    you can see, would be the “second referendum” stitch-up dressed as a GE.

    • Dominic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:19 am | Permalink

      The concern is if Johnson does achieve a landslide GE he may well ram through a regurgitated version of the last PM’s EU-Remain deal through Parliament. If he attempts this we’ll see a political dislocation of the Tory party.

      No longer can we accept betrayal after betrayal after betrayal

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      That would be a huge mistake. A real Brexit and a deal with Farage is the only way forwards that can avoid Corbyn/SNP. Do or die Boris. Farage is hopefully wrong on this despite his past record of being right in general.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      I distrust Johnson completely. Whenever he uses the word clarity, I wince.

    • Ian!
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      Remain and Mrs Mays WA Treaty are the same thing – the power and control stays with the un-elected in the EU

  39. Andy
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    You’re flogging a dead horse Sir John. The Remainiacs never answer.

    • agricola
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:03 am | Permalink

      True Andy, you radiate negativity, make a lot of irrelevant noise and withdraw to your bunker when faced with reality.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      Indeed the usual set phrases:-

      Vote leavers did not vote for no deal, did not vote to be poorer, did not know what we were voting for, were lied to, are stupid, uneducated, racist, extreme rightwing, confirmatory vote …… they all sound exactly the same like bent second hand car sales people.

      What on earth is “extreme right wing” about want a democratic soverein country again rather than being a region of the dire anti-democratic and economic basket case EU? Boris is certainly not extreme right at all.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

      You’re obviously the Original Andy. Concise and to the point.

      Unless you are the same person – a split personality! A bit like Gollum…

    • Fred H
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

      Andy – -please change your name by adding initial of surname or something.

  40. Sharon Jagger
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Before and since the referendum, I think that many Leavers have done research about the EU to confirm that they were making the right decision. In my case, what I have discovered about the history of and why we are where we are has horrified me. And the abhorrent behaviour we are seeing in Parliament by the remainer agents of the EU confirms x10 that my decision to vote to leave the EU was correct.

    I’m not sure that many remainers ‘read up’ on our membership and the implications of remaining. It’s now down to pride/arrogance/brainwashing in believing they are right, and now they can’t back down. (Particularly after being so darn rude to leave voters at every opportunity)

    In the saying, “pride comes before a fall”, the fall would be remaining in the EU. But it wouldn’t be recognised as a fall, until too late. Let’s pray that the Leave vote prevails, and the remain vote fails.

  41. Jack Falstaff
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    7. Are you of the same view as the eponymous protagonist of the 1980 film “Sir Henry at Rawlinson End” when he says “I don’t know what I want but I want it NOW”?

  42. bill brown
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    Sir JR

    After having read a number of the contributions yesterday, I would say a number of the Remainers did try and answer the questions raised , but the abuse from a number of the contributors (non Remainers) did not contribute to a constructive debate. This unfortunately, seems to be tendency on this log as the contribtions turns increasingly right wing and with little relation to simple facts and figures. An example is when somebody tries to tell me that the UK is more egalitarian than Denmark and Sweden. (when the GINI figures clearly shows it is not the case.) or contributors deny that there was a built up of stock in UK business before the end of March 2019.Or using insulting personal remarks, with whom they disagree.

    • Peter
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

      Bill,

      You’re absolutely right. More often than not, I delete a comment before submitting it, because I know that the response is less likely to be “interesting, I never thought about it that way” and more likely to be “hahaha you are weak and feeble of mind”. The constant need for polarisation of opinion is exhausting.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

      You think challenging claims made and statistics presented as the truth is “abuse”
      I think it is your attempt to close down any debate and any contrary arguments.

      You think “insulting personal remarks” are only from leave supporters?
      Do you not read some of the rude and extreme comments by remain ers on here?

      • bill brown
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 8:19 am | Permalink

        Edward 2

        Thank you so much for such a constructive and helpful contribution, this is really deep and helpful

  43. ChrisS
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Watching the ludicrous machinations of the opposition parties last night, I was struck at the number of times the word “democracy” was used, yet only one worthy Labour MP bravely stood up and stated he was going into the lobby with the Government to vote for an election. The LibDems no longer pretend to respect the referendum result and want to revoke A50 without holding another. This is a definition of democracy I do not recognise.

    Another ex-Labour MP made a passionate attack on Corbyn far more destructive than anything Grieve and his now-23 cronies have said about Boris.

    I strongly suspect that when Parliament returns there will be a concerted attempt to replace the Government with a Corbyn-led “temporary” administration without an election in order to cancel Brexit. Whether there is then an election is open to doubt. I suspect not.

    As long as Corbyn gives the SNP permission to hold their second independence referendum and there is no Brexit, The SNP and LibDems will keep Corbyn in power until they inevitably all fall out.

    It’s not the Conservatives that are playing fast and loose with Democracy

  44. Ian!
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    As good as always, I am always impressed by your on tiring commitment – thank you

    • Ian!
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      on tiring un-tiring

  45. Ian!
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    It would appear Remainers have become Remaniacs – destroy trust, destroy democracy, and impose will – but not the will of the People.

  46. ChrisS
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Bercow is, at last, leaving the scene but not without a final flourish aimed squarely at his former party, allowing an unprecedented two emergency debates last evening.

    Bercow clearly believes the Conservatives will win the next election because he’s timed his departure to ensure that current MPs get to choose his replacement, and not a majority Brexiteer parliament. He’s probably hoping to see Harriet Harman in the chair, hardly an individual one would think could ever be impartial.

    We can only hope that if this happens, newly elected MPs will then take the opportunity to replace her.

  47. Ian!
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    It would be difficult for any logical person to accept a system not based on ‘Common Law’

    It is hard to see the logic in a system that is the opposite to the English tradition. There is a subtle difference between the people of a state having rights conferred on them, to one were the rights were theirs in the first place.

    The logic of a democracy is an MP in Parliament can stand up and say ‘We the People’ because the were selected and voted to that position by the people.

    There is a logic in a democracy that all laws are scrutinized by the will of the people are amended by their representatives, enforced by their representatives, and can also by repealed by the People.

    Magna Carta and everything since tried to curtail and hold those with power accountable to its people.

    The EU destroys all the above. You then have to reason that those Remaniacs’ in Parliament are really saying stuff the people we don’t work for them they are our surfs they should and must do as we say.

  48. tim
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    as long as Boris gets us out NO DEAL, WTO, I and my family will vote Tory, if he betrays Brexit then it is Brexit party.

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

      If Brexit is betrayed, none of us may be ‘allowed’ to vote for the Brexit Party.

  49. Pete S
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    On a previous post, I asked anyone to tell me; how do you negotiate with the EU to get a reasonable deal. I got ZERO replies.

  50. Richard416
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Sir John, thank you for putting the case again in parliament yesterday. I think the point of today’s questions is not what sort of remain, but whether remain is even the correct word, since the e.u. is an engulfing project. If it is allowed to carry on it will virtually remove all traces of democracy, probably lead to more corrupt justice, and as a super state will lead to the abolition of the monarchy, which does not mean Britain becomes a republic, but a region. I hope our prime minister can find a way through the minefield the opponents of democracy have laid.

    There is one more question for remainers that I would like to ask. Who will dictating policy in the e.u. in future? You don’t know, do you.

  51. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Ken Clarke (remember, he advocated signing the Maastricht Treaty whilst boasting he had never read it) said “I look forward to the day when the Westminster Parliament is just a Council Chamber in Europe.” Most council chambers behave with far more dignity and decorum than the Westminster Parliament last night.

  52. Simeon
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    I understand this is off topic, but I believe it is nevertheless a vital question; How did the bill just passed by the house receive royal assent? I cannot find an answer elsewhere. A post from you addressing this matter with seemingly profound constitutional implications would be greatly appreciated.

    My admittedly limited understanding on the matter is this; that the PM can advise the monarch to withhold assent for a particular bill, and of course without royal assent a bill cannot become an act, and therefore is not law.

    In the present circumstances, it seems to me that BJ could have advised against royal assent, though the consequences of this would, surely, have been a vote of no confidence and the fall of the government. (Otherwise, no deal remains on the table, and, as ever, the default position.)

    Yes, he loses power (though what actual power does he have anyway, other than prorogation, which in the grand scheme of things is virtually meaningless? But he forces the opposition’s hand, potentially calling their bluff (a huge win), or decisively exposes them as oobstructors of democracy, and forces them to bloody their hands by negotiating the extension. He is, in effect, a martyr, without having to go to jail, and without playing silly games in Parliament.

    If my analysis is correct, it begs the question, what is BJ really up to?

  53. Dan Earley
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    I would suggest that you also add something along the lines of:
    Do you agree with the continued transfer of sovereignty to the EU Council/Commission in order to allow for smoother integration?

    Do you agree with the EU Courts having authority over the UK Supreme Court?

  54. Dominic
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    We cannot have a Labour or pro-EU bigot as the next speaker of the Commons. If it’s someone like Harman I’m emigrating. This stain on our politics cannot be allowed to weave her poison, again. She has a dark history, as we all know. Like most Labour MPs they have lots and lots to hide

  55. Original Richard
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Do they want the EU to continue to expand as currently planned to include Albania, Bosnia, Kosovo, Montenegro, Macedonia Moldova, Serbia and the Ukraine. ?

    Followed by Algeria, Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine, Armenia, Georgia, Libya, Syria, Azerbaijan, Israel, Tunisia, Belarus, Jordan, Morocco all of whom receive money we send to the EU for its “European Neighbourhood Policy” (ENP) to help with their preparation for EU membership?

    Not forgetting the 7 “stan” countries Mr. Cameron wanted to join in his “Atlantic to the Urals” speech in Kazakhstan in July 2013.

    And for freedom of movement to continue ?

  56. Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    Good morning Sir John.
    I would appreciate your opinion of UK Column’s rather startling exposure of a cross party (including the HoL) conspiracy of silence to keep the public in the dark over the surrender, i.e. the transfer of control of our armed forces to the bolshevik EU.
    Do you think that constitute treason?

  57. dixie
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    No to all six.

    • margaret howard
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

      Yes to all six.

  58. BJC
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Another consideration of remaining in the EU is that with the increased use of QMV the transfer of powers to Brussels, as outlined in our host’s list, would hasten and any opt-outs or vetoes would systematically become worthless.

    It’s the standard chip, chip, chip-away technique employed very successfully by the EU over decades to gain overall and unchallenged control, ably assisted by the self-appointed guardians of the treaties, the ECJ. It will eventually empower them to argue that it would be just one teensy step to achieve full integration. Mission accomplished.

  59. Ian!
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Remaniacs’ singing the Red Flag in the HoC last night, sums up the contempt all those siding with the opposition have for a democracy.

    Utter contempt for decency and process, how long must this go on?

  60. BR
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Regarding 4, transfer of our monies to smaller countries…

    Within the least few weeks Poland announced that it was reducing (yes, reducing) its retirement age to 60.

    So here we are, increasing our retirement age, with then latest proposal suggesting age 75, while we give money to Poland via SM contributions and how do they use it to ‘develop’ their country? They pay people earlier to stop working sooner.

    Even if they didn’t do this, why should we pay for other nations to develop???

    You may look a the national debt figure (debt, not deficit, for the economically-challenged) and see how similar it is to the total SM contributions we have paid to the EU since we joined. That means that we’re not “paying” the EU contribution as such, we’re passing it down the line to a future generation, as yet unspecified. Is this what you want for your family?

  61. Brenda
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    We have a host of optouts and vetos, your post is misleading

    • Jagman84
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

      To be eradicated soon by federalisation in 2023. There will be no article 50 either, should you have a change of heart about your beloved EU.

  62. acorn
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    You missed out another leading question that is loaded with a presumption, namely, “Have you stopped beating your wife?”. The Judge would have pulled you up on question 1; leading the witness.

    I assume JR, you have read the letter to Conservative MPs from Simon Wren-Lewis “Do Conservative MPs really think they can cope with the consequences of No Deal?”. To that question, you can give a yes or no answer.

    Reply I believe we will be better off out of the EU have debunked various silly scare stories.

    • Fred H
      Posted September 11, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      reply to reply….As a sometimes Conservative voter, and it helped you being my MP, and me being a clear LEAVE voter, I knew my 1 in 500m vote counted for nothing within the EU. I ‘knew’ my 1 in 48m UK electorate vote counted for something. Now I’m not so sure of the UK electorate having any effect on UK law, society and face to the world. Can I even trust Parliament should we finally get out of the 28? Trust has became that grimace on seeing the dregs in the ‘real coffee’ cup having almost consumed.

  63. Witness
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    On Sky News this morning Kinnock MP (Labour) has given a chins’s up for banning a General Election.

  64. Ian!
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Our wonderful Remaniac Tories who suggest they should be let back into the party, now are to side with the opposition for another referendum.

    The haven’t delivered on the first one yet, as they promised in their manifestos.

    The whole set up in the HoC is geared to defying the People, and surrender sovereignty.

    What happened freedom, democracy, common decency etc.

    When do we get to see Grieve/Hammond and Co’s communications with their bosses in the EU?

  65. Matt
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    I was going to make comment but I won’t only to say I think you’re all nuts over there. Matt Dublin

    • Posted September 10, 2019 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

      Perhaps the feeling is reciprocated by some here about you ‘over there’. But then, most of us are not quite so mindlessly sweeping in our condemnation.
      L Jones, England

  66. Diane
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

    I had for some time decided I loathed various aspects of the EU. The last three appalling years of getting nowhere have at least been enlightening in all respects, supporting my referendum decision as being the right one after engaging further in all things Brexit. I love Europe, travelled / travel extensively & worked with a fantastic company with fantastic mainly European colleagues. I know it’s a cliché now but ‘love Europe, hate EU’ as it is now. Surely,this WA is not the way forward. There are also still many things we don’t know because we are never told. I was very interested and dismayed recently about the HOL question raised by Lord James of Blackheath regarding Brexit / WA / Defence & Security. He has been slapped down in no uncertain terms and as I see it actually threatened for raising a very relevant & important question which affects our future. There has been lots of comment & info about the subject on a number of websites so he was not asking anything which was not already out there. After a YT video of him speaking in the HOL had been taken down, I did find it again elsewhere. Interesting.

  67. BillM
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

    I doubt many remainers would believe what you tell them. Their obsession with the EU knows no bounds for there are none so blind as those that will not see.
    To me, it all comes down to just one point.
    Do we wish to be able to govern ourselves or do we want a group of unelected and unaccountable foreigners to do it for us?

    • margaret howard
      Posted September 10, 2019 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

      BillM

      ” or do we want a group of unelected and unaccountable foreigners to do it for us?”

      We’ve got our own unelected Prime Minister to do it for us.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 7:56 am | Permalink

        Name a Prime Minister who was elected to that office.

      • libertarian
        Posted September 11, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

        Maggs

        Should have called an election and elected one then

  68. Original Richard
    Posted September 10, 2019 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    “Those of the remain persuasion, just as those of the leave persuasion, must surely see that this is not the way to treat our lead negotiator—putting our country naked into the negotiating chamber with the EU. It puts the country in a farcical and extremely weak position.”

    This is just what the remainers intended to do.

    BTW I don’t expect there to be a GE anytime in the near future. The remainers have engineered a coup and having assumed power are not going to relinquish it – turkeys don’t vote for Christmas.

  69. margaret
    Posted September 11, 2019 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

    The term “security” also includes criminal law. TMay’s proposed Security Treaty, to be (I believe) quietly signed at the same time as Brino/Brexit, sounds plausible enough; but in reality ordinary citizens will have a very rude awakening when it kicks in.
    Politicians and police favour some of its terms largely for the sake of short term expediency
    Yet apart from writer Torquil Dick -Erikson, nobody ever discusses it and it’s cunningly not been part of the Brexit negotiations.

    • margaret2
      Posted September 11, 2019 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

      PS I find there’s already someone called margaret on this forum, so I rename myself margaret2.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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