Walls in a troubled world

In the 1980s the West rejoiced at helping pull down the Berlin Wall. That wall which divided a German city was constructed by the USSR to keep people in. Knowing how far their living standards and freedoms had fallen below the West, the USSR denied most of their people any access to western media or to the West itself. People were shot if they tried to cross into another part of their city.

It was the visible evidence of the lengths communists went to to detain their citizens that turned me against communism in my youth. My first political and economic writings were about the failures of the communist system, and the cruelties communist states imposed on people.

In recent years countries on both sides of the Atlantic have put up walls and fences to keep people out. Mr Trump’s wall added to Mr Clinton’s. The Anglo French fence in Calais is a small example of border fences that are common along the miles of EU border, especially to the south and east. The aim is to deter illegal migrants, drawn by the relative prosperity, the freedoms, jobs and benefits of living in an advanced western society.

There are signs of a cyber curtain coming down across the world. As the USA challenges China over alleged theft of Intellectual property, and seeks reassurances that its own systems will be safe from cyber attack, the world moves towards two systems and two alliance patterns. Countries are having to answer the US question, are you with us or against us? It will prove increasingly difficult to mix Chinese and US components and services within technology products and services.

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168 Comments

  1. Mick
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    Our Berlin Wall “The Eu “ is also coming down the only difference is ours is taking longer because it seems to be a brick at a time

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

      The European Union is devoted to ending physical borders between countries. Have you heard of “Freedom Of Movement”?

      It is the Leave extremists, who wish to erect a barrier between the UK and the rest of Europe, and from that stem all the problems in Ireland.

      Where have you been for the last three years?

      • Edward2
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

        I would assume Mick was referring to the outer border of the EU empire.

      • a-tracy
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

        800 miles of fences have been erected by Austria, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Macedonia, Slovenia and others.

        • a-tracy
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

          and this from the Independent “European Union states have built over 1,000km of border walls since the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989, a new study into Fortress Europe has found.

          Migration researchers have quantified the continent’s anti-immigrant infrastructure and found that the EU has gone from just two walls in the 1990s to 15 by 2017.” 9.11.18

        • margaret howard
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

          a-tracy

          “800 miles of fences have been erected by Austria, Bulgaria, Greece, Hungary, Macedonia, Slovenia and others.”

          Temporarily only to stop millions of terrified refugees driven from their homes because of illegal wars in the region by the US/UK starting with Iraq.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 7:05 am | Permalink

            Nearest country of safety Margaret.
            Why travel thousands of miles to get to the UK .
            The vast majority are economic migrants masquerading as refugees.
            Using asylum to beat the queue for proper immigration application.
            Encouraged by organised criminal gangs.

          • a-tracy
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

            In 2015 Angela Merkel sent out a message that Germany welcomed all refugees and migrants, even writing lots of the banners in English at German football clubs so all could understand. She encouraged a movement of people into Europe that her own country is unwilling to absorb now her vacancies are filled. A lot of the problems were passed on to Turkey for a big pay day ‘Turks have visa-free access to the Schengen area and receive some six billion euros to look after Syrian refugees’.
            British ministers committed to taking in 20,000 Syrians driven from the war-torn country by 2020. The UK also paid out £800 million to help those affected by the conflict helping to set up refugee camps near the borders. Britain is the second biggest bilateral donor of humanitarian aid.

            I don’t know about ‘illegal wars’ has this been tested in court Margaret for you to make such an assertion? Tony Blairs’ decision and deceptions are yet to be tried I think so he and his cabinet are innocent until proven guilty. STOP making out our Country is responsible for everything bad in the World!

      • libertarian
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

        Martin

        WRONG

        EU countries are busy erecting walls, fences and borders. The UK has had freedom of movement on the island of Ireland since 19223. Look up the CTA . It is entirely the EU that wishes to erect a border .

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

          Fine, well maybe the French will not bother with theirs at Calais, nor all those expensive security staff any more either.

          Happy?

          • Edward2
            Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

            Just say you were wrong Martin.
            You will feel better.

          • a-tracy
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

            You know Martin that would be a dreadful mistake for the French and the Channel Tunnel company in particular wouldn’t it!

            France does not pay for the security staff alone i read last year that Britain paid £44.5m for extra security measures in France to prevent another refugee camp forming in Calais or any other Channel port. the money brings total British funding for security and policing in Calais since the “Jungle” camp was bulldozed in 2016 to more than £150m.

            However, if the tunnel has to be closed from France into England and only British ferries, who check people travelling properly are allowed onto the vessels it will cause tremendous problems for European exporters into the UK who would be forced to look for other routes and air freight forwarding and cut off revenue streams in France putting people out of work.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

            Martin in Cardiff

            Is there no subject of which you aren’t ignorant

            The Le Touquet Agreement means that BRITISH border officials operate in France and FRENCH boarder officials are located in Dover. The security at the Calais immigration camps is PAID FOR entirely by British Taxpayers as part of the deal

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

        “… and from that stem all the problems in Ireland … ”

        Really, so you think that Brexit will be retroactively responsible for all the problems in Ireland, presumably right back to when there were no problems in Ireland.

        Actually if the English had won the Battle of Hastings, so maintaining a proper degree of political separation of England from the continent, the kind of situation we hope to restore with Brexit, then the Normans would not have invaded Ireland in 1169.

        But then I read that the original Anglo-Norman landings were at the request of one of the numerous kings in Ireland to help him regain his kingdom from another king, so it sounds as if the Irish themselves had already created some problems in Ireland even at that time.

      • steve
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        “The European Union is devoted to ending physical borders between countries.”

        Of course they are. Why have borders between countries when they’ve been swallowed up.

        “It is the Leave extremists….blah blah blah.”

        So far, leave has been remarkably well behaved. The extremists are the lefties with their big balling gobs outside the Houses of Parliament etc ed.

        They really do believe that losing fair and square must be illegal.

        One in particular balling at the top of his voice “Boris is a Liar”….knowing full well it was being broadcast.

        If these goons really want to go legal, fine, the example I cite, and others like him should thank their lucky stars Boris hasn’t had them in court for defamation. I wouldn’t hesitate…..and I’d have the case heard in a matter of days.

        Loud mouthed hypocrite extremists, the lot of ’em.

        So please, Martin, note the hypocrisy of you calling us leavers ‘extremist’.

      • czerwonadupa
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

        Yes & so has everyone across Africa & the Middle East.

        “The movement of peoples from south to north represents the most significant shift in the world population since the early Christian era”
        Professor Sir Michael Howard

    • Hope
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      The UK does not need a wall it has a moat! Tories could not and cannot control immigration shows it is deliberate against the policy it has and championed at elections three times. Dishonesty is the name of the Tory party game.

      Walls and borders are good it keeps us safe; it kept us safe from Nazi Germany; it has kept tribes safe for hundreds of years.

      As for JRs last ragraph, con woman has published three articles clearly showing Mayhab giving away our military to the EU even after we leave to side with the EU not USA.

      JR, please explain her actions and that of your govt. why no investigation into her dishonest Kitkat policy, is it because the truth of her treacherous behaviour will turn people against your party? To keep her as an elected candidate will do huge harm o the Tory brand. She should be ousted along with the other 21 who sided with Corbyn. Do not forget that is exactly what Mayhab’s last act was to get her servitude plan through parliament!

      • Lennie Dokes
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

        Does the UK really have a moat? If so, brilliant, that solves the Irish problem. Could you point me to the moat between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland?

        • Edward2
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

          Lennie.
          Do you have an atlas?
          Check it.
          You will see there is a watery gap around the UK

        • Fred H
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

          Probably part of Boris’ master plan – – start digging a wide canal( moat) all round the border.

  2. Shirley
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    Democracy is our protection against communism and other totalitarian governments, yet Remainers wish to destroy it, or at least destroy any democratic result that doesn’t fit into their totalitarian views.

    The Remainer MP’s could have removed the government from office but chose to control him instead with litigation as they are too scared of a GE. A GE which would return a government with democratic MP’s that keep their promises to the electorate. This Parliament stinks to high heaven. We NEED a GE to clear out the undemocratic liars and manipulators.

    • Gary C
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:07 am | Permalink

      @ Shirley

      Agreed.

    • Ian!
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      Yes, and those same Remaniacs suggest their actions are supporting the cause of democracy. When in reality it is they that are seeking the utmost destruction of democracy.

      You cant have a New World order unless you completely destruct the one you wish to replace.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

        Ian

        We didn’t scruple to become allies with the worst, most powerful communist regime and a murderous leader like Stalin to defeat Hitler’s fascist Germany.

        And we certainly didn’t manage to destroy it when the war was over. Just the opposite, Stalin’s hideous regime grabbed more territory than Hitler ever did and the countries living under it shed much blood to rid themselves of it.

        Where were we upholding democracy then?

        • Otto
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

          MH – ‘Where were we upholding democracy then?’

          Britain was too weak to do anything about it, if of course it would want to.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      They do it by calling us racists and stupid… or old.

      All of it dehumanising us.

    • Timaction
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      Indeed we do. We need a clear out of the swamp!

    • Oggy
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:31 am | Permalink

      Shirley, I see that yesterday Comrade Corbyn said he would abide by and implement the result of a second referendum, that’s very generous and noble of him.
      What a hypocrite, why not abide by the result of the first ?
      He is running scared of the next GE, he knows what is going to happen.

    • Hope
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

      Cameron stated he was going to lead the UK out of the EU if he did not achieve his reforms, one presumes the reforms he stated in his Bloomberg speech most of which were dropped before talks began! Knowing he had failed before talks began he let his charade continue and decided to waste millions of taxpayers’ money to advocate remain in stark contrast to what he told us he would do i.e. lead the UK to leave the EU! Just a small oversight or lie from a very educated PPE person.

      Having failed to achieve any substantive reform in his sham talks, he decided in delusion that he reformed the EU, or lied, and the U.K. should remain! His bitter memories still do not accept the responsibilities of his failings and tries to smear and call other names instead of looking in the mirror and admit he is and was a failure.

      • rose
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:19 am | Permalink

        These Cameron revelations are disastrous. What has got into the man? No point in listing all the lies and indiscretions, but it is all hugely damaging to the country. It makes one wonder whether he is also behind the coup d’etat which took place in January to stop us leaving. How extraordinary was it that the Today programme was dominated this morning by Blair and Cameron, trying to roll back history to before the referendum, and later on in court we shall be hearing from the hubristic Sir John Major.

    • steve
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

      Shirley

      Yes indeed.

      We do need a GE. What’s more the remain lefties know that when there is one they’re history. So, like the childish bad losers they are they run away from the prospect rather than face the music i.e. wrath of the voters.

      Their tactics are what you’d expect, which is the policy of wrecking, smashing up, stamping feet up and down like nasty little kids. Their psyche goes like this – if we can’t have it we’ll stop you having it by breaking it.

      It’s what you get from people who devote their lives to jealousy, and it’s what you get from those who think they’re ‘entitled’ to have what others do but are not prepared to work for it.

      Brexit can provide this country with some fantastic opportunities, but the lefty remainers are opposed because their ideology fiercely conflicts with the notion of having to actually work to ‘make’ things work.

      Optimism, willingness to face challenge, and hard graft are what terrifies that lot.

  3. Lifelogic
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    I think intellectual property is rather over protected in the US, EU and UK systems. The justification for these protections are that it encourages innovation which it can sometimes do. On balance the over the top protections are now doing far more harm in adding additional barriers and costs to innovation than they are doing good. IP protections can be a huge creator of largely parasitic jobs in IP protection, registration and related litigation areas. Often also connected to artificial tax avoidance mechanisms due to excessively high tax rates and profit shifting. Release these people to get real and productive jobs. Do this with lower taxes, simpler taxes and less IP protections. Protections only where they really do encourage useful innovation rather then rent seeking or crony capitalism.

    There is a good book covering this area though I do not agree with all of it:- The Captured Economy: How the Powerful Enrich Themselves, Slow Down Growth, and Increase Inequality.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:41 am | Permalink

      Ross Clark in the Telegraph today:- ‘Smart’ meters are dumb and cost the earth
      Desperate to be seen to be acting on climate change, ministers didn’t think through the consequences

      Another benefit of Brexit is we can ditch this smart meter insanity.

      Do ministers ever think through the consequences of anything are they even capable of it? Nearly all have zero understanding of science, logic, maths and engineering. Nearly all MPs voted for the insane Climate Change Act after all and the appalling scientifically illiterate Theresa May committed us to net zero UK carbon emissions by 2050.

      • Sea Warrior
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:20 am | Permalink

        There is a lot to dislike about Smart Meters. My biggest objection to them is that the billions wasted on the programme could be better spent on things to tackle Climate Change.

      • James1
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

        “Do ministers ever think through the consequences of anything are they even capable of it?”

        They tend to think only of the immediate or short term effects on the specific groups of people involved, instead of giving thoughts to the longer term effects on the wider population.

      • Iain Moore
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

        I heard that Smart Meter policy is costing each home somewhere in the order of between £500 to £750. It seems yet another brilliant intervention by our political classes which is costing us dear , to along with diesel cars…. and probably climate change…..and probably electric cars. I have yet to figure out how changing a meter effects the your usage of electricity, so my old meter is staying where it is.

        • APL
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

          Iain Moore: “I have yet to figure out how changing a meter effects the your usage of electricity, so my old meter is staying where it is.”

          Well of course it doesn’t. But it does allow the ‘authorities’ to manage demand.

          So through negligent management and perverted idealogical goals, the government has decided not to provide enough generating capacity in the country. As a result it may be that they cannot generate and supply enough energy to supply the demand.

          Presto, your little ‘smart meter’ can be instructed to turn off supply or reduce supply from a central location.

          It’s all about demand management, aka selective power cuts.

      • Turboterrier
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:14 am | Permalink

        LL
        Do ministers ever think through consequences?

        NO NO NO

        The BBCNews Channel have placed on line the wake up call bought about by use of Sulpher Hexaflouride (SF6) used in the and by the electrical industry to prevent short circuits and accidents.

        In 2017 this little known gas due to leakage and the like was the equivalent of an extra 1.3 million cars on the roads. It is 23,500 times more warming than CO2. The different forms of generated power entering the gid has to have far more intricate switching systems and circuit breakers which are known generally as Switch Gear.

        All this information is on line with BBC news with an article by Matt McGrath 13/9/19 and on Not a Lot of People Know That web site dated the 14/9/19. There must be some truth in it as it originated from the BBC!!!!

        What will the tree huggers and environmentalists make of this I ask myself?

        • BritinDeutschland
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

          SF6 has been included among the ‘greenhouse’ gases together with CO2, CH4, N2O, NO2, the main CFCs, HCFCs, HFCs, and other atmospheric gas oddities in the radiative transfer codes part of the weather forecast and climate models run by major weather forecast and climate models for at least five years, ten years in some US climate models. I personally find very funny the big fuss now happening suddenly after I guess some people at the BBC read a popular science report on the topics.
          However it is rather important in its potential impact on the climate as SF6’s almost non-existent interaction with other molecules in presence of ultraviolet radiation in the high troposphere and stratosphere gives it an atmospheric lifetime thought to be between 800 and 3000 years.

      • Chris
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

        Agreed, Lifelogic.

      • Original Richard
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

        The government’s wish to have everyone fitted with smart meters is so they can individually control our use of energy through variable pricing – needed for intermittent and unreliable green energy sources – and when necessary, cut off supplies entirely.

        • steve
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

          Original Richard

          You know the answer to that ?…….stick them two fingers by going off grid.

          You need –
          Inverter.
          Solar array.
          Small wind turbine.
          Deep cycle battery bank.
          Back up diesel generator.
          AGA or Rayburn with back boiler.
          Chainsaw & logging Jockey.

          Desirable –
          Vegetable patch.
          Greenhouse.
          Fruit trees esp plum and apple.
          Hens.
          A couple of wheelie bins for a constant supply of spuds.

          It works mate. No energy supplier has been near my bank account for three years now, and I don’t get the shirt robbed off my back by supermarkets. In fact the only things I buy from them nowadays is bread, butter, milk, lard, cheese, sugar and meat, British of course.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 20, 2019 at 7:14 am | Permalink

            But in pollution terms Steve, burning wood for heat plus your diesel generator and your chainsaw you put more dirt and CO2 into the air than a City dweller using electricity from the grid.

      • Andy
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

        Smart Meters are a UK policy introduced by a UK government under UK law. Precisely zero to do with Brexit.

        They are a perfectly sensible idea but the roll out was botched by the Tory government – as you would expect.

        Climate change deniers are 21st century flat-Earthers. There is zero doubt the climate is changing faster than it ever has. There is zero doubt mankind is responsible.

        It really is the height of irresponsibility for old people, like you, to deliberately put your grandchildren’s generation in jeopardy. I hope your grandkids treat your views with the contempt they deserve.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

          You are wrong on smart meters.
          Annex 1 to the EU’s Electricity Directive 2009/72/EC requires member states to roll out electricity smart meters to 80% of consumers by 2020
          There was a previous EU directive in 2006 on energy use and energy efficiency which also laid the foundations for smart meter roll out in EU member nations.

        • a-tracy
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

          Quick google search says “The foundations for rolling out smart meters in Europe were laid down in a 2006 EU directive on energy end-use efficiency and energy services. The directive required member states to ensure that consumers of energy and water are provided with individual meters and accurate billing, including time-of-use information.15 Jun 2016”

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

            It does not compel consumers to have them though.

            In March 2018 the National Audit Office (NAO), which watches over public spending, opened an investigation into the smart meter programme, which had cost £11bn by then, paid for by electricity users through higher bills. The National Audit Office published the findings of its investigation in a report titled “Rolling out smart meters” published on November 2018. The report, amongst other findings, indicated that the number of smart meters installed in the UK would fall materially short of the Department for Business, Energy & Industrial Strategy (BEIS) original ambitions of all UK consumers having a smart meter installed by 2020.

            The hard sell is a UK, not a European Union move.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:51 am | Permalink

            The hard sell is needed to meet the EU’s directive which specifies an 80% take up by the end of 2020.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 20, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

            Martin iC

            Smart meters are mandatory in France

        • a-tracy
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

          From europa eu Smart meter rollout
          The EU aims to replace at least 80% of electricity meters with smart meters by 2020 wherever it is cost-effective to do so. This smart metering and smart grids rollout can reduce emissions in the EU by up to 9% and annual household energy consumption by similar amounts.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          WRONG ,

          From EU website

          The EU aims to replace at least 80% of electricity meters with smart meters by 2020 wherever it is cost-effective to do so. To measure cost effectiveness, EU countries conducted cost-benefit analyses based on guidelines provided by the European Commission. A similar assessment was carried out on smart meters for gas.

          A 2014 Commission report on the deployment of smart metering found:
          close to 200 million smart meters for electricity and 45 million for gas will be rolled out in the EU by 2020. This represents a potential investment of €45 billion
          by 2020, it is expected that almost 72% of European consumers will have a smart meter for electricity. About 40% will have one for gas

          Its almost as if Andy hasn’t got a clue what he voted for

          • acorn
            Posted September 18, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

            The Directive also says: “The Member States, or any competent authority they designate, shall ensure the interoperability of those metering systems to be implemented within their territories and shall have due regard to the use of appropriate standards and best practice and the importance of the development of the internal market in electricity.

            The laissez-faire neoliberal Conservative government that leaves everything to “the market”, failed to implement the Directive. My smart meter is now a dumb meter on my recent change of supplier.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

            Wrong again acorn.
            The same problems afflict other member states.
            Let’s get back to the source of this smart meter project shall we.
            Absolutely nothing to do with laissez faire liberalism.
            It was forced on the UK by the big state, controlling unelected superstate that is the EU.

          • acorn
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 6:29 am | Permalink

            One of these days you might actually get something correct Edward2. Professor of Energy Policy at Oxford University, Dieter Helm believes that the decision to hand responsibility for the installation to energy suppliers rather than distribution companies due to a pre-occupation with incentivising customer switching:

            “This was a fundamental mistake which no other major European country has made. Meters had always been in distribution, for the very good reason that they are an essential part of the network system. This fundamental error has had consequences that now haunt the smart meter programme.”

          • Edward2
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:53 am | Permalink

            Well I got the smart meter nonsense from you and Andy right acorn.
            You both said smart meters were a UK inspired idea.
            You were both proved wrong.
            It was the EU that forced us to have smart meters.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

            acorn

            One of these days you might live in the real world rather than a world of wiki stats

            Edward2 is CORRECT, Andy was wrong its an EU thing

            You and Dieter Helm are WRONG and Edward2 is correct

            Go and read the 1,000’s of complaints about the Linky Smart meters in France ,

            A French court has allowed 13 people to refuse the installation of Linky, a connected electric meter being installed in homes across France, because of medical concerns over the waves emitted from them. The meter has been the subject of scepticism since it was first introduced in 2015 and there is growing resistance to their mandatory installation.

            Germany is the next ´failed state´ in rolling out smart meters? Already massively delayed, concerns grow that the German “super smart meter” Sonderweg will not live up to the high expectations

            Right across EU in Sweden, Italy , France and Germany there are huge issues with smart meters . Maybe its not about socialism acorn

            Anyway you owe Edward2 an apology

        • cornishstu
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

          Smart Meter installation is an EU directive ”Member States are required to ensure the implementation of smart metering under EU energy market legislation in the Third Energy Package. This implementation may be subject to a long-term cost-benefit analysis (CBA). In cases where the CBA is positive, there is a roll-out target of 80% market penetration for electricity by 2020.” I would also like to know where the information is to qualify your statement ”There is zero doubt the climate is changing faster than it ever has. There is zero doubt mankind is responsible”

          • Edward2
            Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

            Amazes me how ill informed about the EU the remainers are.
            Again and again they state things like this when a simple bit of research proves them totally wrong.

            Then to add insult to injury they have the nerve to say leave voters didn’t know what they voted for.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

          Wrong again.

        • steve
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

          Andy

          “Smart Meters are a UK policy introduced by a UK government under UK law”

          Wrong, again.

        • APL
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 6:33 am | Permalink

          Andy: “Smart Meters are a UK policy introduced by a UK government under UK law.”

          Andy has been soundly refuted again. So I doubt he’ll come forward to admit his error.

          “It really is the height of irresponsibility for old people, ”

          Also nicely demonstrating, that with age comes wisdom. I just hand Andy might accumulate some, despite his best efforts during his dotage.

    • Gareth Warren
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

      t the heart of the company I work at is IP, this self developed logic lies in custom chips (FPGAs) at the heart of our products.

      Now our application area is smaller so the chance of theft is lower since it takes too much effort to copy the electronics. But if a competitor did this they could crush our company within a year.

      We all need to reap the reward for our work, at its heart capitalism involves protection of private property. It is a open secret that even grey microchips roll out side doors in factories in China, the attitude appears to be non-Chinese IP is not protected, that is unsustainable.

    • Dan
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      I would suggest that the evidence for theft of intellectual property, particularly by China, proves that the protections are not in place. Intellectual Property rights are there to protect innovation, ideas, plans and so on from those who will not do the work but are happy to steal the ideas to profit from it. It is rife in the technology and IT world. If people’s ideas are not protected by law from theft then why would they bother inventing things and innovating if those things will then be stolen along with all the potential profits?
      I thoroughly agree with the idea that our tax system needs complete reform. At 17000 pages and growing it is far too complex but it is there to generate income for the government and to help business and people grow and thrive, not to protect IP.

    • Leaver
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:00 am | Permalink

      I agree with you about the overprotection of intellectual property.

      The climate change denial stuff however does you no credit. Manmade climate change has been proved to be true multiple times, principally by measurements of carbon dioxide levels at the Mauna Loa observatory and drilling Antarctic ice cores. The only case made against it is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo cooked up by the Koch brothers and believed almost nowhere outside the U.S republican party. Climate change is a serious problem and it needs to be dealt with by governments.

      And yes, I do understand science and logic (though I wouldn’t claim I’ll be solving the Reimann hypothesis any time soon),

      • Otto
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

        Leaver – you have mentioned man made climate change and CO2 levels but you haven’t connected them. Can you cite any empirical evidence that there is a connection? I hope you can as I’ve always thought so.

        • Leaver
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:25 am | Permalink

          Sure. CO2 levels are comparatively static before the industrial revolution. Then, once mankind starts burning loads of coal, they start going up and have been going up steadily ever since (though some is absorbed by the sea, so you need to factor that in).

          I would argue, however, that it’s plain common sense. All the smoke that comes out of chimneys probably isn’t going into outer space. Interestingly, the vast majority of CO2 actually comes from volcanic activity, but we can’t do much about that.

          • Otto
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

            Thanks for that but it isn’t empirical evidence – that’s what I’m looking for.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

        I do not deny the climate changes, nor that mankind is a factor (among millions of others factors know and unknown) that affects the climate. But I do dispute the sensitivity of the world to CO2. We are not on our way to a new firery hell on earth. Anyway wind, solar and the likes make no significant difference to CO2 at all. Even if you are a “believer”.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

          If there were no atmospheric CO2 at all, then the world would be frozen solid.

          But if none of the sun’s energy hitting our planet could escape on the other hand, then Earth would be a furnace.

          CO2 has increased by 45% since pre-industrial times.

          Any reasonable person would say that these simple facts together are cause for concern and for careful analysis at least.

          That is all that science is doing, but you don’t even want the questions asked.

          • APL
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 6:46 am | Permalink

            Martin in Cardiff: “Any reasonable person would say that these simple facts together are cause for concern and for careful analysis at least.”

            Assuming your assertions are correct, which is open to question.

            Correlation of two or more phenomena, does not necessarily imply a causal relationship exists.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 7:12 am | Permalink

            LL was challenging the sensitivity of temperature variation to CO2 increases.
            The current computer models have the correlation too high.
            You can see that by looking at previous predictions versus actual temperature rises.

          • libertarian
            Posted September 20, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

            Martin in Cardiff

            That CO2 increase translates according to Nasa as a 1degree increase in global temperature

      • steve
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

        Leaver

        “Climate change is a serious problem and it needs to be dealt with by governments.”

        Tell that to China and India, who’s combined population is over 2 billion. Not us on our tiny Island of 60 million.

  4. Roy Grainger
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    I think you’ll find if Trump loses the election in 2020 suddenly all the left-wingers and Remainers will want to support the USA again no matter how many wars they start (trade or otherwise). It is just tribal with them.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:56 am | Permalink

      He surely won’t lose. Did you see the dire choice of candidates on the Democrat side? Full of the politics of envy and identity politics and other economic lunacies.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      You make a valid point that so far, Trump has been restrained in the use of force, and perhaps history will remember him well for that.

  5. Dominic
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    When will Communism and indeed communists be demonised by Western governments?

    I am perplexed as to why a body of political ideas that have led directly to genocide, murder, oppression and totalitarianism still retain State backed approval.

    Criticise politically inspired immigration and ethnic displacement and you are labelled and criminalised while Marxists and Communists are still allowed a platform to spout their extremist bile. Why?

    It is my belief that western governments see value in Marxist ideas of social control and human management. I find that extremely disturbing and reflects a political culture and indeed reflects the mindset of those that currently infect our politics in the west.

    Freedom of expression should form the foundation of a truly open world. The west and especially the British government has decided that no longer will freedom of expression be tolerated.

    It is deplorable that a Tory government should embrace such a formal and indeed informal policy.

    The control of language, the rise of woke, the limitations placed upon topics we can and cannot discuss and the political infiltration of private sector organisations and the media should trigger an alarm call to all those who believe freedom is essence of a happy life. Without freedom there is nothing

  6. Wilfrid Whattam
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:46 am | Permalink

    Strange that you make no mention of the worst offender, Israel.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:50 am | Permalink

      Offenders of what?

    • agricola
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:30 am | Permalink

      Rubbish, the only walls the Israelis erect are to keep out those who would wish to destroy them. No nation in this World has more experience of the malicious thinking that has seen them imprisoned and slaughtered just for being Jewish.

    • sm
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:35 am | Permalink

      Yes, it’s so difficult to comprehend why a tiny country would want to defend itself against constant physical assault by those who wish to wipe out its population on the grounds of religion, isn’t it?

    • Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:39 am | Permalink

      Emotive judgemental words ‘worst offender’ gives your game away.

    • formula57
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      Or the most meretricious, Hadrian.

    • Peter
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      Not really. Israel is a topic that this site usually avoids.

    • David Taylor
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:13 am | Permalink

      Not strange at all , it is not the intended theme of the article , nor for that matter do the ” Peace Walls” in Belfast get a mention , I look forward to the day , that all such walls are tourist attractions like Hadrians , the Antonine Wall or the Limes Tripolitanus or the more recent walls around Conway or Caernarfon .
      Security issues are as fraught now as in the past .

    • Neil Turrell
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      Oh, do you mean that Israel should make it easy for their openly declared mortal enemies to cross the border to kill them? You’ve been watching too much BBC anti-Israel propaganda.

  7. Lifelogic
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    Mark Carney (Osborne imported this dire PPE dope) is to stay on ever longer still it seems. Why? He is totally misguided, full of green crap, talks the country, Brexit and economy down endlessly, has allowed dysfunctional, uncompetitive UK banking to persist and has done huge economic damage.

    Vastly overpaid too, far better people would do the job for 10% of his remuneration.

    • rose
      Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

      Sickening. One thing this disempowered government could do is appoint the right Governor. Who is holding them back?

  8. Mark B
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:53 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    There have always been walls and other obstacles to demarcate boundaries and to keep others out. From simple wire fences to the Great Wall of China.

    Today there are more boundaries being constructed, and not just the physical, as our kind host alludes to.

    We therefore have to ask the question as to why. Why is it that the State feels the need to ‘protect’ (sic) its citizens and / or itself ? Some of it may be due to the threat of invasion, either by a foreign army or, those seeking a better life. The solution to those problems is better security, and the understanding that better social and economic conditions for those those in poorer countries.

    Instead of aid it would be better to invest and trade with those poorer countries and recognise that those coming here for work are not refugees and should be sent back home or from the last country they came from.

    We need to rewrite the rules on refugees and migrants and, enforce current laws and agreements. Failing that stronger measures need to be taken.

    It is not wise to invest in areas where another country, especially one that is not a functioning democracy, can gain technical, economic and political advantage over us. We need to be less dependent on others.

  9. Sea Warrior
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    Walls are a start – but they are not enough. The Home Secretary needs to hoist onboard that the legal framework governing wall-jumpers needs to be supportive of any physical measures put in place to prevent intrusions. At present, ours, like America’s, is a nonsense. Parliament, when it comes back from the Naughty Step, needs to toughen up. If it won’t, the Conservatives’ next general election manifesto needs to promise legal reform to stop wall-jumpers from ever contemplating coming here in the first place. The British public is sick and tired of one wall-jumping story after another.

  10. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    John, the reason for which many clandestine migrants are not content to remain in France, but would rather come to the UK are many, but not primarily the ones that you cite, I think.

    They are:

    ID cards are necessary in France.

    It is possible to work for cash in the UK, whereas in France this is more closely controlled.

    These people seek to join their ethnic kin in the UK, e.g. from parts of the ex-British Empire, when there are no such communities for them in France, tending to be from the ex-French Empire instead.

    France controls certain cultural practices such as FGM and forced marriages more effectively than does the UK, and does not permit the wearing of certain garments. Nor does the state there fund religious schools.

    I wonder what you would say, if the French did not do all that they could to comply with the Le Touquet agreement to prevent these people from coming to the UK?

    What do you think might happen to that, in the event of say, a dispute over fishing grounds?

    • libertarian
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

      Martin, Martin Martin

      PLEASE stop making things up just to respond to posts

      1) ID cards are NOT mandatory in France and you can use any official document such as a passport or drivers licence in lieu of an ID card if asked to identify yourself

      2) Vive la black market! One in three French people say they have earned undeclared income this year , the black market is huge in France due to high rate of taxation

      3) Most of the refugees on the French cost are Kurds/Iraqi ( France has Kurdish community of 150k UK 49K) , Somalian , Ethiopian and other African countries

      4) The answer to that is very easy if the French stopped blocking immigrants coming to the UK , then as per all international conventions they would be deported back to France, being as France is deemed a safe country

  11. agricola
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Those that have not will always wish to have a slice of what others are perceived to have. If they wish to contribute they have credibility, if they wish to predate on the system they have none, we have enough home grown versions of the latter.

    IP is a difficult one. Both the USA and Russia lived on the back of German technology taken at the end of WW2. Not to mention all that the UK handed the USA and Russia for free during WW2. Remember the USA insisted on payment for the assistance they offered. History to be remembered when we rush into any trade deals with the USA.

    Inviting Chinese involvement into areas of national security, as did May, is crass in the extreme. Even to have them involved in power generation is questionable. The World is a big enough trading place to be able to afford to assuage any overtures from China if necessary. The dependency of having many eggs in the one basket makes one vulnerable.

  12. Iain Moore
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    ‘alleged theft of Intellectual property’

    Oh I think it is more than alleged , in fact Western politicians have been more than complacent as to what China is and has been doing. It has been directly ripping off Western companies IP and been hollowing out our economies with its undervalued currency. You do not allow totalitarian regimes preferential trading terms as well as allowing them to rig the rules in their favour , but with China you did. In fact we had idiot Prime Ministers like Gordon Brown and Chancellors like George Osborne saying we are open for business , which was code for saying come and buy up any assets you take a fancy to. Good lord we allowing them into our critical infrastructure like nuclear power generation and our 5 G network. We are absolutely mad.

    If you want to see where this ends up take a look at what China is doing to Africa In Zaire the Chinese wouldn’t allow their citizens to be tried in the same courts as the locals, no there had to be separate Chinese courts them. In Kenya when they found some Chinese hackers in their country, the Chinese then waltzed into the police station taking them out and immediately flying them home. No local rule of law to applied to them. Then there are all these phenomenally expensive infrastructure projects that the African nations can’t afford, and end up in Chinese state hands. In Kenya they think the Mombasa port is going to end up in Chinese state hands , and the Chinese are helpfully building them a coal fired power station they don’t need, the Mombasa to Nairobi railway the Chinese built them is never going to pay its way , in fact the modernen super fast trains they thought they were getting turned out to be clapped out old diesel trains, and the Kenyans didn’t even get to run their own railway, no its staffed by the Chinese……Now what does phenomenally expensive infrastructure projects that Governments won’t pay for by the Chinese will remind me of?

  13. Iain Moore
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Please read it as ‘Governments won’t pay for but the Chinese will remind me of?’

  14. Ian Wragg
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    No doubt the EU will favour Chinese technology just to snub the USA and UK thus undermining NATO.
    (Some? ed) of the top officials are communist sympathisers which is why they love the one size fits all nature of the EU.
    We are well off out of it.

  15. Frances Truscott
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    I have just read an article on B4B about how the WA gives up our defence and intelligence capability to the EU. That would mean losing 5 eyes and is utterly terrifying. No one pointed this out.

    • James1
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

      Fundamentally simple. Forget the personalities. The duplicity. The disruptions. The obstructions. The obfuscations. Focus on the principle. A democratic referendum was held with two options. The Leave option won with the largest vote in the history of the UK. Sooner or later the result will indeed be implemented, and the naysayers will be dispatched. A fudged Brino stitch-up will not do. It will not be accepted, and would lead only to further rancour. A clean break is essential. Our sovereignty demands nothing less.

    • Konnue
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

      The WA does not even mention defence and inteligence. Please explain why you are lying

    • Sharon Jagger
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

      Frances truscott

      Veterans for Britain have been trying to get the message across for months and months, to not much avail. There is/was a separate treaty signing over control of the armed forces and security and is also in the political declaration.

      Odd articles have been written but in the last week or two more have been published. It’s very slowly getting more commonly known. But I agree there needs to be a seismic burst of articles and discussion on the news to really get the message across.

      • Ronnie
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 3:50 am | Permalink

        This is completely untrue

  16. Anonymous
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    The Anglo/French fence “The aim is to deter illegal migrants, drawn by the relative prosperity, the freedoms, jobs and benefits of living in an advanced western society.”

    I’m not sure the French will like you saying that but there must be a reason why the boats are going *to* racist (allegedly) UK and not enlightened, easy going and sophisticated France.

    A whole referendum result has been negated by smearing those who voted for it as racists. Without shred of evidence, without a single prosecution for it.

    It is this single smear that I find so ultimately offensive and I will never yield on Brexit because of it. In this day and age it is worse than being called a paedophile.

  17. Newmania
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    By any measure the world is a better, safer place; health education, wealth, deaths natural disasters ( although you would never know it ).
    All of which makes the surge of cultural conservatism of which Brexit is an unpleasant part mystifying.When I think of the future , it feels like the moment when you reach the top of Cader Idris and a new sweep of shore and mountains are revealed.
    Why, then this cringing wish to huddle around the camp fire fearing of every shadow?
    In the high Victorian period just as new world of trains factories and cities emerged , painters evoked pastor scenes, poets used antiquated language and architecture self consciously mimicked the medieval. Authors saw only the cruelty of the new age and Religion enjoyed a revival.
    I wonder if we are going through something similar now, a cultural moment in which people cling to the familiar

    • Edward2
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

      The opposite is the case NM.
      Remaining is the no change comfy option.
      Leaving is the radical option.
      Competing and involving ourselves with the rest of the world not just being inward looking.

    • Richard1
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

      Do you agree with Mr Verhofstadt that the day of the nation state is over and the world will be dominated by ’empires’, with the EU being one of them? Do you agree with Mr Juncker that the EU has no use for ‘part time’ members – eg those with opt outs from the euro? There is a logic in what these gents say, but it’s not really the kind of remain the remain campaign argued for in our referendum is it?

      • rose
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

        I noticed the two most passionate defences of the nation state and of Brexit came from the two youngest continental MEPs, an Italian and a Croatian. They are the future.

        • margaret howard
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 9:00 am | Permalink

          rose

          “They are the future”

          Then why are there only 2 of them?

          • rose
            Posted September 19, 2019 at 10:57 am | Permalink

            Because most of the MEPs are getting on in years, as are the Eurocracy.

      • Fred H
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

        I have no issue with their views, as long as we (and others) can quite simply opt OUT.

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

      Through Major’s Maastricht and Blair’s “rub their noses in it” dismantling of our borders they decided to destroy our country.

      Well this is what the destruction of a country looks like, Newmania. It may not have gone to the demolition team’s blue print but then it was never going to when foisted upon an enfranchised population.

      You live in out of touch and disconnected Lewes, so of course you’re mystified.

      Nice Mr Corbyn/Watson et al are going to see that you get the full experience, quotas etc. And you can’t escape because you’re not clever enough.

      You’re about to find out what happens when the people you sneer at stop voting.

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

        PS, The reason why they won’t hold a general election or simply cancel Brexit a’ la Jo Swinson is because they know demand for Brexit is stronger than ever.

        It’s not migrants that have caused that but middle class arrogance such as yours.

  18. George Brooks
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Lifelogic asks and answers the question ”do MPs ever think through the consequences”?

    They don’t have to, as this unless bunch just wait to be told what to do by the EU.

    Another item in the appalling May legacy is the indecision on Chinese equipment in our proposed 5G system. She could not visualise the threat so she left it for the EU to tell us what to do.

    Boris needs to tell the Chinese ‘ no thank’ pdq and they won’t be surprised or any less friendly. They will put it down to a ”good try” and think of another way to try and hack into our security system

    We do not need to wait around for the EU to weaken us still further or to insult us as they did yesterday in Luxemburg. We need to be free by 31st October without fail.

  19. Ian!
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    The Cyber threat is greater than perceived and is facilitated by Governments

    It is said that bad governments fear their people so turn to spying on them. The contradiction there of course every time a government develops laws for them to gain access to private conversations they also open the door to foreign powers to gain the same information.

    It is this fear of The People by Governments that makes the internet a dangerous place, for the people, their communities and the countries they belong to.

    Rather than a government wanting more access they should be ensuring all access is secure for everyone equally. They (Governments) forget for every bit of personal detail they gather, that is also a personal bit of data the enemies of the State also acquire.

  20. Fred H
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Previously walls were almost impenetrable stones, bricks, fences, ditches, moats etc. The EU ‘wall’ is the trading bloc, the imposed restrictive practices that binds the participants to ever increasing movement towards government of the many by the few.

  21. Polly
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    In 2018, there were many UK press articles about ”big money” spending £millions to stop Brexit.

    In 2019, it’s curious that there have been no follow up articles to report on how this ”big money” campaign is progressing.

    Do you think there is a conspiracy of silence ?

    Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s Sherlock Holmes story looks topical…………….

    “Is there any other point to which you wish to draw my attention, Mr Holmes ?
    To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time, Inspector Gregory.
    The dog did nothing in the night-time, Mr Holmes
    That, Inspector Gregory, was the curious incident.”

    Polly

  22. Alan Jutson
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    An old saying.

    Strong high fences, make for good neighbours !

  23. Dominic
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    The fundamental principle of Communism is the destruction of the free individual and his subjugation to the all encompassing power of the Marxist state.

    Thatcher understood this and tried to expose those who propagated such filth. Unfortunately, we now have a gutless, spineless Tory party who create laws that prevent the expose of extremism in all its forms

    This is why Priti Patel would have made a great leader of this once great party of freedom. She is a defender of those values that protect our way of life and a free society. A true stalwart. And now were lumbered with a leader who I suspect is just another woke Cameron with frizzy blonde hairstyle

    • neville
      Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      List of Priti Patel’s major achievements as Home Secretary:
      – none.

  24. Andy
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    Throughout human history one truth has remained unchanged: walls dividing people always get broken down in the end.

    From medieval fortresses to the Berlin Wall this has always happened and always will.

    Trump’s wall will be no different. It will eventually be torn down.

    As will the Tories Brexit Wall around England. It will soon come crashing down.

    • Pope Pius XVII
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      Vatican City’s walls have been there for over 500 years.

    • Edward2
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

      How would you control immigration?
      Would you make any discrimination between legal and illegal immigration?
      Even the EU has outer borders.

      • Andy
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

        Walls and borders are not the same thing.

        Immigration is a non-issue. It is best tackled through education – by teaching people not to be xenophobes – and through proper government investment in services.

        Simple.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 7:15 am | Permalink

          So borders OK but no walls.
          How does that work?
          You either have a controlled system for immigration or you end with chaos.
          How can any country cope with millions a year?

    • Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

      Andy:
      And then, if you had your wish and our country was subsumed into your EU Empire (as your Mr Verhofstadt would have it), your children would be up for grabs by the EU army. Still, if you think that’s a small price to pay……

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        L Jones

        “your children would be up for grabs by the EU army.”

        Instead our soldiers have to fight US wars to make our politicians look big on the world stage. A bit like being treated as mercenaries.

        • libertarian
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

          Maggs

          But OUR soldiers are volunteers , EU’s are conscripted

    • James1
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

      There is no Brexit wall around England. The only wall around England is an EU wall, and not before time it will come crashing down shortly.

      • Andy
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

        Okay – good luck with that. You’ll need it.

    • dixie
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

      The EU is a wall between us and the rest of the Anglosphere, it will be torn down.

      • margaret howard
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 8:53 am | Permalink

        dixie

        We deserted the ‘Anglosphere’ when it suited us nearly 50 years ago when we joined the EU. Countries like Australia and New Zealand were left overnight unable to sell their lamb or dairy and their farmers faced bankruptcy. They looked to the East for new markets to survive.

        Do you expect them to come back to us? Would you?

        And there is no wall. We live in a global world and we can sell to whomever we want while in the EU as long as we adhere to the rules and conditions which we were partner to when they were made.

        • Edward2
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink

          We didn’t ignore the anglosphere 40 years ago.
          Our relationships with the Commonwealth and America is a strong today as it was back then.

          Australia and New Zealand have both said they want to do a trade deal with us as soon as we are allowed to do so.

          Independent free trade deals will be very different to the protectionist tariff deals the EU does and much better for us as a result.

          Every business that sells into export markets complies with the rules there is no change needed.

        • dixie
          Posted September 19, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

          You, your kind and those you clearly support deserted our friends and family for questionable political influence. Many of us have not and did not forget in 2016.

          You keep using the word “we”. “We” had no involvement, chice or influence over anything to do with the EU until 2016, only your euphile friends had that perk.

    • Ed M
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

      @Andy,

      Sovereignty is a virtue. You’re confusing nationalism (bad) with patriotism (good).

      And patriotism doesn’t mean one can’t or shouldn’t have good relations with one’s neighbours. One can and should. Especially in terms of economy, culture and security. But you don’t have to lose your sovereignty to do that.

      Do you agree or disagree with this?

      We all agree the Nazis (nationalism) was evil. But do you also agree that Joan of Arc (patriot) was right to try and win sovereignty for her country back in the 15th or do you think she was wrong?

      You can argue that there is a good and bad way of gaining sovereignty. But you cannot disagree, surely, that sovereignty, in theory, is a bad thing?

      • Ed M
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

        Btw, Joan of Arc by Helen Castor is essential reading for lovers of what sovereignty and patriotism means – through the action and life of Joan of Arc (which supports what was already taught in the theology of the Church at the time).

        (And if you like that, then the classic film of Joan of Arc by Carl Theodor Dreyer – just ordered it – it has a 98% rating on Rotten Tomatoes film critic website).

    • Anonymous
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

      Got a wall around that lovely big garden of yours ? If so then why ?

      That nice Mr Corbyn will want to know when we’ve all stopped voting Tory because you tell us we’re too stupid to vote.

    • libertarian
      Posted September 20, 2019 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Great Wall of China has been there for 2,300 years. Its still there

      There isn’t a wall around Britain , we’re an island Andy

  25. IanT
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I’m pretty sure I know which side of the US/China “Wall” the Hong Kong people would prefer to live. I used to live there before we handed the colony over – so I was used to being called “a running dog of the American Imperialists” (the Chinese communist shops had English loudspeakers set up to ‘educate’ their European customers). And Mr Trump for all his faults didn’t invade Tibet nor has he recently locked up over a million people in ‘re-education’ camps.

    I also live in Germany before the Berlin wall came down (during the Soviet era). It therefore seems quite unreal to me that anyone would contemplate actually voting for Corbyn/McDonald who are essentially calling for the (some of the ed) same (economic but not civil liberty ed)policies as were enacted in Eastern Europe with such terrible economic consequences. Unfortunately, the young don’t know any better and will believe their Socialist propaganda – whereas I’ve seen the reality of Socialism for real.

  26. bigneil
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    And WE in the UK seem to have absolutely NO border wall. Anyone can arrive and stick their hands out. Get for absolutely NO contribution or input at all. Would anyone run a restaurant or shop on that basis? NO – because it would be madness. So why is our country being run the same way?

    • Andy
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

      This is absolutely untrue. Everybody who comes into the country via ports or airports gets their passport checked. Hardly any arrive by other means.

      Asylum seekers are entitled to next to nothing. And foreign migrants – as a whole – contribute more on average into the system than native born Britons. It is impossible to debate these issues sensibly when you keep spouting complete and utter falsehoods.

      • Edward2
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        No they don’t.
        Many arrive having thrown away their documents.

        I’ve already demolished you claim that asylum seekers get nothing so stop repeating that nonsense.

        Next nonsense is your claim how much they add to the UK
        Answer me why GDP per capita is not going up.

        The only utter falsehoods are your made up claims.

      • Ed M
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

        But Brexiters do have a point that there is a problem with immigration across the Western world, with UK with one of the worst hit.

        Immigration is definitely fine long-term where immigrants have high skills and are refugees from dictatorships.

        Yes, the economy also depends on low-skilled workers but this dependence needs to change. The long-term cons easily outweigh the short-term pros. The country is simply not wealthy enough to take on all these extra people in the long-term, with extra burdens on housing, hospitals, welfare etc …

        My main argument is how we transition out of the EU to sovereignty. For that, I believe we need a proper plan and leader – above all, building up our economy so that we have high tech productivity and exports and sense of patriotism about our economy missing at moment. If we had this, then Brexit would be a breeze as opposed to a quagmire at moment.

      • Anonymous
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:01 pm | Permalink

        Some 600,000 new arrivals a year get citizenship in the UK. Nearly 7x Wembley Stadia. Are you seriously telling me that they are all checked out properly ?

      • Fred H
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 6:02 am | Permalink

        Andy – they all sleep on the verges alongside the A4/M4 near Heathrow, having nowhere to go, no help. The area around Dover is knee deep in immigrants with no ID, they sleep in shop doorways, lie on grass verges. If only they could get help we wouldn’t see hundreds of thousands of immigrants making everywhere look so untidy!

      • a-tracy
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

        Andy “Asylum seekers are entitled to next to nothing”.
        gov.uk Asylum support:
        You can ask for somewhere to live, a cash allowance or both as an asylum seeker.
        Housing – You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
        You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

        Cash support – You’ll get £37.75 for each person in your household. This will help you pay for things you need like food, clothing and toiletries. Your allowance will be loaded onto a debit card (ASPEN card) each week. You’ll be able to use the card to get cash from a cash machine.

    • Lotrd
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

      I kniw, i know, iwas amazed when my passport wasnt checked at Heathrow last week. O hang on, it was !,

  27. rick hamilton
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:37 am | Permalink

    As you say, communism needs walls to keep people in whereas capitalism needs walls to keep them out. Has Jeremy Corbyn ever considered why this might be ?

    I cannot understand why there is no consistently right-wing TV channel in the UK which relentlessly mocks socialism like Fox News. Heaven knows we need one.

    • The Prangwizard
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

      I’ll second that. Trouble is the government itself and the overwheming majority of Tory MPs, forever appeasing the Left, is wholly against the idea that we should have a counter-balance to the left biased broadcast media. We do live in Left dominant political culture.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 3:40 am | Permalink

        Surely this is due to the market forces you espouse. If there was a market for a right wing media outlet surely the market would make it appear? That said, the print media is hardly left leaning. The two left leaning newspapers have small circulations. For me the main fly in the ointment is the BBC and the absurd notion of being forced, by law, to pay for it.

  28. ian
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    There is always a deal to be done without having to sign the WA, agriculture and farming is one such deal that benefits everyone without upsetting the SM and CU, Mr Trump is working on car tariffs with other tariffs.

  29. percy openshaw
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    I’m glad you nail the Merkel falsehood which pretends that defensive, democratic walls are the same as coercive, communist ones. We all know this. It is an obvious distinction; but such is the corruption and neo-Marxism of our current establishment – the world over – that it is rarely heard.

  30. Muck
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    “…Which serves it in the office of a wall
    Or as a moat defensive to a house”

    That was when we could speak freely and think properly, freely, until Lawyers seized our tongues and our minds and, rewrote… our… books ….with gobbledygook

  31. BillM
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Regarding product source mixing, given the fact that the new imperialist Chinese have not been so friendly towards us nor to our many friends in the Orient, our best ally, the USA, must be the only obvious choice. We must buy vital components from ‘safe’ States only.
    How could the previous two Conservative Prime Minister agree that Red China become involved in our new Nuclear Reactor for the new Hinckley Point Nuclear Power Station? It was a crazy decision to make. And how could Mrs May, against the recommendations and the warnings from the Americans, agree to induct Chinese made products into our new 5G communications system? Especially when Vodafone had discovered a built in back-door hack in the products they had purchased from Huawei, for their Italian telecoms system? Despite protestations from Huawei to the contrary ALL Chinese OEMs are answerable and subservient to the Government in China. It is the way communism works. Total control over everything. Yuk.

  32. ian
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    It now looks like any deal with the EU is off the table after a vote in the EU parliament today, I was only trying to help them out.

    An iron certain now seen to be going up around the EU and i do not feel that i want to be on the inside of it.

    • Oggy
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

      Yes I watched the live EU Parliament this morning and what struck me was how delusional a lot of those MEP’s are. They seem to think that the British people want to remain in the EU and Boris is taking us out against our will, and it’s the remainer MP’s in the HoC that are trying to maintain democracy in the UK.

      They are all away with the fairies.

      • rose
        Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

        They haven’t been helped to understand the true position by the fact that the wrong man is in the dock this week. If there must be a constitutional case involving Parliament – which is after all its own court – that man should be Bercow.

        • Oggy
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

          I wholeheartedly agree.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted September 18, 2019 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

          The highest court in the land, Parliament, could have removed John Bercow if there were a majority for that.

          There never has been anything like one.

          He is not meant to be impartial between the Government and Parliament. He is there to defend the latter against the first, amongst other things.

          • Edward2
            Posted September 18, 2019 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

            He is meant to be unbiased and keep to traditional rules laid down over centuries
            Fortunately he will be gone very soon.

  33. outsider
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John, Your warning of a sub-Orwellian war of the Continents over electronic systems, intellectual property and technical standards is important for the future but the more immediately relevant wall is surely Hadrian’s. An impression has been given that the UK leaving the EU without a customs union would endanger England’s Union with Scotland. In reality, it is the other way round. If a defeated and humiliated Britain remains in the EU Customs Union, Caledonians might well choose a full, proud Scottish identity over a nothing British one. Who could blame them as there would be no cost beyond some budgetary subsidy. But if the UK leaves the Customs Union, an independent Scotland rejoining the EU would inevitably face an extraordinarily damaging hard border with England, there being no countervailing issue like the Good Friday Agreement. That is why SNP MPs are so desperate to ensure by whatever means that the UK remains in the EU Customs Union. Brexit would actually strengthen the Union, if only in a negative way. This point seems obvious but does not seem to get a mention.

  34. Denis Cooper
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

    Off topic:

    https://order-order.com/2019/09/18/sarah-wollastons-values-fibs/

    “Sarah Wollaston’s Values Fib”

    “Wollaston was originally selected as a Conservative Party candidate through an open primary in 2009. She sent a leaflet to every home telling voters she was “fiercely opposed” to EU integration in a leaflet that was enclosed with that postal ballot.

    At the 2010 election she called for powers to be “repatriated“ from Europe and told voters to “beware the slide to federalism“ under the Liberal Democrats and their Europe policies.

    In 2015 she promised that voters would get the ‘final say’ through ‘a straightforward in/out referendum’ on EU membership and in 2017 she promised to respect that result and not to ‘send us back into Europe’.”

    Now she is a Liberal Democrat and she would not even bother with a second referendum, a so-called “People’s Vote”, before she revoked the Article 50 notice.

    Which is why this Parliament is not a true representative of the British people.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

      Indeed they just say what they think the voters want to hear until they are elected. Then kick them in the teeth post election. Yet people still want these other 21 traitors back again so they can undermine the next Conservative Government one assumes. It is hardly democracy to get one vote every five years to choose between the two least worst options and then they often do the opposite of what they promised anyway.

    • stred
      Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

      We now find that TM has appointed the Aus reject Natalie Green to the HoL. Do we needed any more proof that the Conservative Party had gone completely bonkers.

      • Mark B
        Posted September 19, 2019 at 5:02 am | Permalink

        TM showing her true political leanings.

    • Mark B
      Posted September 19, 2019 at 5:04 am | Permalink

      And is why I believe that the time has come to debate moving from a representative democracy to a more direct one.

      • Mitchel
        Posted September 20, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

        Indeed.Representative democracy guarantees only oligarchy.

  35. margaret
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

    Some walls cannot be seen but still exist.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted September 19, 2019 at 3:45 am | Permalink

      Some walls only exist in our mind. Grasshopper.

  36. Dominic
    Posted September 18, 2019 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

    Boris confronted in an NHS hospital who turns to be a Labour party activist and McDonnell supporter.

    What is it with Tory MPs? Are they naive or just stupid?

    Can’t they see that Labour will be in your face at your every turn?

    The BBC and Channel 4 (both parasitic, taxpayer funded left wing propaganda platforms) reporting it as though this person is a father of an ill child without reporting (political background ed)

    Come on Tories. Get on the offensive for god’s sake. Expose Labour for their past (mistakes ed)and complicity. Take the gloves off and expose them and their ….

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

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