The Queen’s speech

We are getting through the traditional Queen’s speech debate this week. Normally it sets out what the government will do over the year ahead, specifying which pieces of legislation they will pass . The Speech also highlights any major events of the diplomatic year, telling us about State visits. It does not go into detail about budgets, departmental spending plans or the day to day business of government.

This Queen’s speech debate is like no other I have participated in for one very simple reason. The government advancing it has no majority. Every item in it needing Parliamentary approval will require some opposition MPs to vote for it.

In the debate yesterday I asked the representative of the SNP what they would support amongst the list of Bills in the Speech. None seemed to be the answer. Labour has been a bit more helpful, liking the Domestic Abuse Bill.

There is no point in this Parliament continuing unless sufficient Opposition MPs agree to vote for some of the bills in the Speech. Short of any opposition support the legislative programme is a fantasy list, a list of Bills a future Conservative government would like to put through given a majority to do so.

The present Parliament has substantial negative capability, but is unwilling to come together to achieve anything. That is why we need a General election.

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165 Comments

  1. Lifelogic
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    We do indeed need a general election. But certainly not one that is won by Corbyn/SNP/Libdim/Plaid. Some Conservative/Brexit Party accomodation is needed.

    The Andrew Neil interview with the Philip Hammond last night showed clearly that this tax to death ex-chancellor must never return to the party. He has not got a Conservative bone in him. Why was he ever made (and retained) as chancellor or even as a Conservative Candidate?

    • Bob
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

      They call them the modern Tories.

    • Hope
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

      Vassalage transition, pay billions for nothing, ECJ apply to citizens in U.K. or any dispute, level playing field to prevent U.K. being more competitive including tax, EU led defence operations based on its foreign policy, N Ireland linked to EU forever with customs tax and regulation, access to our waters and quotas for fishingetcetc.

      JR, tell us how this is not a tweaked Mayhab servitude plan restraining the UK from the exciting parts of leaving the EU? Tusk already publicly saying how Johnson caved in over N.Ireland! Irish already saying U.K. will be tied to EU forever. Johnson has now acted against what he told DUP conference last year, he said EU should whistle for the tens of billions for an unknown period of decades, where there is a dispute ECJ decides! ECJ applies to EU citizens in this country.

      Of the Forty horrors highlighted by the Spectator how many have gone and how many remain? Martin Howe QC made it clear it was not just the backstop. The whole agreement was bad with him recommending an extension rather than accept her WA.

      I hope this sell out will encourage and speed up the extinction of your gov and party. The public will in the coming days become aware of the horrors, again, of this EU rotten servitude plan. The public will come to realise what a shyster Johnson is and how he has broken his promises, including only last week saying ‘s deal was dead. The majority of it remains!

  2. sm
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    Presumably HM’s Opposition don’t want a General Election until Mr McDonnell has his faithful cadres securely in place, both in Westminster and the TUC?

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2019 at 4:49 am | Permalink

      At last, someone else who has noted the silent purge that is going on in the Labour Party.

  3. Mark B
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:29 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    I have been arguing for a GE from the beginning of this year. Sadly we will not get one. Our government, parliament and democracy is in a state of paralysis, unable to function.

    The FTPA should have been timed limited to just that parliament. A small number of MP’s (LibDems) demanded it as part of the price of coalition and none sought to amend or repeal. I can understand their reasoning and can appreciate that no one could foresee current events but, we must learn from it and consider Sunset Clauses in any similar such legislation.

    We are, quite frankly, in a real mess. We have a demos that wants parliament to Leave the EU and a parliament that does not and seeks to defy the people. We have a politicized judiciary that tells us that government acted unlawfully when no one can say what law(s) the government broken. We have an opposition that does not want to govern and government that cannot govern. A parliament that was elected to take back control and become a rule maker and not a rule taker but, seeks to maintain the current status quo as a vassal state of the EU.

    I have always said, that you know where government / politicians have been, by the trail of mess they Leave behind. And what a mess you all have got is into.

    • Chris
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      Worstof all, Mark, is that we have a PM who is trying to dupe the 17.4 million that his deal agreed with Brussels represents Brexit. It is nothing of the sort, and merely represents a tweaked version of May’s WA/PD. MPs are being steamrollered into accepting it or otherwise, with no time to digest the contents, nor time to assess the significant differences, if any, between it and May’s deal. Legal expertise is required to inform MPs, many of whom lack the scholarly ability and legal background necessary to comprehend exactly what the Boris agreement entails. The DUP don’t seem to have much trouble as they are astute and principled. They have never wavered.

      • Sue Baron
        Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

        What has shocked me more than anything is that the Queen has no power to say enough is enough im calling an election to protect the citizens of this country.

        They have no real role at all?

  4. Ian Wragg
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Corbyn won’t agree to an election without a second referendum.
    The SNP won’t agree without a second referendum on Brussels independence.
    The Limp Dumbs won’t agree to anything.
    HM should desolve Parliament.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:36 am | Permalink

      So Brussels is insisting on a level playing field, coordination of tax and environmental affairs and France and Spain open access to UK fishing waters.
      Mays deal all over again.
      Thank goodness for the DUP.

      • Chris
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

        Agreed, Ian.

  5. Peter Wood
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    A’.. fantasy list…’ prepared by a government apparently living in its own fantasy world.

    What have we become; a law making institution that wants to outsource its law making, peopled by individuals who care nought for previously agreed democratic principles and norms, and who happily lie, obfuscate and evade their responsibilities. Incompetence seems to be main criteria for the top jobs. It is shameful beyond imagining. We are a laughing stock for the world.

    We, the people deserve better. Local associations must be allowed, immediately, to deselect and/or recall their MP’s for disciplinary action or sacking.

  6. Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    Indeed. It is the parliamentary equivalent of constipation, we need a good clear out.

  7. Sea Warrior
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    There’s a lot to like in the government’s programme and the Conservatives’ polling is ticking-up strongly. If Labour and the SNP do nothing but oppose the bills then CCHQ needs to be geared-up to attack Labour relentlessly in the Media. The general election will come, eventually.

  8. Shirley
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    This Parliament fears a GE. The reasons are obvious. How long will the majority of MP’s continue to prevent a democratic solution to the the current imbalance?

  9. Andy
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    We don’t need a general election.

    We need to completely transform the way we do politics.

    It is scandalous that we have an electoral system which ignores so many voters.

    I loathe UKIP with every bone in my body but at one point they got 20% of the vote. And no seats.

    Farage may get 10-20% of the vote at the next election. But we all know he’ll still be able to fit all his MPs in a small hatchback – with room for baggage.

    The Lib Dems may get 15% of the vote or more. 15% of the seats would be 100 MPs. They might get 20.

    The Greens – one MP for well over half a million votes. The DUP 10 MPs for barely half as many votes.

    Not one single Irish nationalist MP in Parliament.

    The whole thing is a sham. Out of date. Irrelevant. Completely unrepresentative.

    After Brexit we will set about the revolution which will sweep the whole lot of it away.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

      The English have come to expect elected dictatorships, often chosen by a minority.

      The position that we have in Parliament at the moment in some way resembles that in PR countries, but they have evolved a political culture based on pragmatism and co-operation. It could and should be a good thing, but instead it is misrepresented as a “zombie parliament”, by John and by many others.

      That plays well with Leave voters and with right-wingers generally, who have no interest in true popular legitimacy, but in the tyranny of the winners-by-any-means.

      Look at them fawning over the completely unreprersentative DUP, for instance.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

        Twaddle.
        If those who were elected honoured the manifestos they were elected on, we would have a representative democracy.

        • bill brown
          Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          they never have and we do not have representative democracy with fist past the pole anyway

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

      you start with the point that we don’t need a GE.
      Then the rest of your points indicate a solution might be found by holding one!

      You continue to be an enigma. I suppose it makes sense to you somehow.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

      You don’t mention the inordinate number of SNP MPs for their vote.

      Do you think that is OK?

  10. Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    It’s going to take a lot of parliamentary time to patch up the constitution after this mess.

    We had a perfectly good system of parliamentary government. If parliament fell out with the government it called a vote of no cinfidence, chucked them out and there was an election that resolved the impasse.

    Now we have judges sticking their noses in – with no mechanism to get rid of them once they start being partisan (contrary to the pretence we’ve managed to sustain for centuries).

    Under UK law judges stay out of political field of play. That way their political prejudices can be ignored.

    Now the SC has removed the Queen from parliament (despite that being the basis of our constitution), they have pulled on a strip.

    Parliament will have to correct this judicial overreach, and that of the speaker, by legislation – updating the Bill of Rights to put the judges back in their proper place.

    That UK judges can even reach this conclusion is a result of EU pollution of the UK legal system. We need to clear that out as soon as possible.

  11. oldtimer
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    This current Parliament is no longer fit for purpose. MPs clinging to their salaries, expenses and pension entitlements by voting against its dissolution are a national disgrace.

  12. Dave Andrews
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    A general election will be of no help now, as Johnson has re-submitted the May deal re-heated out of the microwave. The DUP saying they can’t accept it is very telling. If it’s not good enough for the DUP, it’s not good enough for me, and I’m only a mild leaver.
    Johnson doesn’t convince those who want to leave the EU, and the Brexit Party support will be maintained, leading to yet another hung parliament.
    If the Conservative Party puts a clean break Brexit into their manifesto, that might swing it, but I rather suspect we will get fudge and muddle the same as 2017.

  13. Simeon
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    We do not like it, but this Parliament has the significant capability of preventing Brexit without a WA. It has come together to do just this. There won’t be a general election until a majority in Parliament is satisfied that the risk of Brexit without a WA is outweighed by the need for a new government – although even here a new government can be formed from the present Parliament if this is deemed necessary. As I say, this may be highly disagreeable, but one cannot fault Parliament for prioritising the biggest, overriding issue of the day. They can’t hide from the electorate for ever of course, but what they are doing is logical and reasonable given their stance on Brexit – even if this stance is distasteful.

    Again, it needn’t have been this way. But BJ is PM, and this is the result.

  14. Tom Rogers
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    The Domestic Abuse Bill is concerning. It is an initiative of the Left and Conservative MPs like Theresa May (who strongly supports it). The Bill proposes to divert taxpayers’ money and public resources to tackling a problem that is already within the competence of local police and social services, and includes (among other things) the appointment of a Domestic Abuse Commissioner. It creates a very expansive definition of domestic abuse that includes non-physical conduct – an alarming innovation. It is yet another legislative intervention in people’s homes and private lives. Why is a Conservative government pandering to the Left like this? What happened to judicial independence and due process? Why are you wasting public money on faddish legislation? This will rank alongside hate speech laws and IPP sentences, and numerous other authoritarian measures, as another unwise but difficult-to-reverse reform intended to appease emotive arguments.

    Turning to Brexit, the Brexit Secretary yesterday confirmed to the relevant parliamentary select committee that, should a deal not be agreed with the EU, the Prime Minister will be sending the extension request letter. It follows that if we are to leave on 31st. October, the government must be able to present to Parliament a deal that it can vote on. The EU have said that a deal in written form will not be possible this month, only a ‘solution’ – a sort of memorandum of understanding. A deluded government may think it can hoodwink the parliamentary opposition with a memo, but at the moment it does appear we will not leave on 31st. October.

  15. Buckle my shoe
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    One of my town’s still Labour MPs wrote an article for the local paper. With semi-literate turn of pen making out despite her own Remain views she had fought for Brexit in The House.
    I wrote to the Letters Page as mortals don’t get to write an article. They did not publish it nor a second. In them,
    times, dates, of precisely when and how she had backed and voted for every subterfuge, every amendment to stop Brexit in its tracks over two years.
    They did not publish either letter.
    We need a free local press. It should be campaigning if it has a British soul in it for a General Election if only to lend a cobble of credibility to Representative Democracy.
    Parliament is buckle-kneed and got that way being kicked in the groin by Remainer MPs.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

      We have the same sort of nonsense in Wokingham. The latest Libdreamer gets a wildly inaccurate, unresearched pop published at Sir John. I’d support him if he made critical points, but it was all childish inaccuracies, and amazingly puzzling over the work of our MP. But it gets coverage – any press is good press, eh? Just goes to show what sort of editors, journalists etc inhabit our media world. Bottom of the barrel dwellers.

  16. J Bush
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    The current parliament is ‘punch drunk’ on the power its has grabbed, but is frightened of responsibility. This evident with the ridiculous prorogation saga, the Benn Bill and the refusal to have a GE.

    So yes, we do need an election, but the above bunch of cowards don’t, as it would mean the end of their power trip and runs the high risk of being kicked off the gravy train as well.

    Perhaps the only way to get one, is for the PM to use the powers he does have and dissolve parliament to force one.

  17. ferdinand
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    Boris Johnson should ignore the Surrender Act ,if necessary challenging the performance in Court., declare No Deal, and hold an election at the end of November.

    • Chris
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

      Agreed, ferdinand, but I fear that the PM has no intention of going for a No Deal, and never did. However, he apparently had no qualms about promising to Brexiteer backbenchers that the WA was “dead” and that he would pursue a No Deal, should he be unable to get a deal by 31 October. Oh yes, and he promised that he would “die in a ditch” if we didn’t leave on 31 October.

      That sort of person does not command my respect. I think Boris has been a huge disappointment, and, in my view, has shown himself to be part of “the swamp”.

  18. Alan Jutson
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    agreed

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      interesting times now John

      Its this deal, or no deal, as the EU have just ruled out any extension.

      The EU have now negotiated two deals, if the second one does not get through Parliament, then its no deal by default, as I simply cannot see them try again for a third time, no matter how many letters the UK send them, and in what language.

      Do not know enough about this second deal, but at first glance it looks worse than the first, and certainly more complicated, but I await to see the small print, as the devil is always in the detail.

      • Chris
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

        AJ, don’t bet on the EU ruling out an extension. They will see how the vote goes on Saturday, and have a rethink. I believe, as Gorbachev observed, that the EU is effectively another Soviet Union in terms of its structure, control and bureaucracy. With Marxists the end justifies the means i.e. truth is not important.

  19. John Sheridan
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    “That is why we need a General election.”

    Remainer MPs fear the backlash from their electorate at the next general election. They will cling on to their position to thwart Brexit, by forcing a second referendum and changing the voting franchise, (minimum age to vote 16 and EU citizens given the vote) before they face the public.

  20. Julie Williams
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    We know all of this but what can the electorate do but sit back and wait until the “honourable” members tire of holding our democracy hostage, are they unaware of what the electorate think of their behaviour or are they terrified of what they’ve done?
    A massive programme of constitutional reform is needed but won’t be offered because the current major players can use the system to their advantage.
    Also, why the focus on photo ID when postal voting is the problem…and the Electoral Commission?

  21. agricola
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    If and when Brexit is put to bed it will be necessary to provoke the disparate opposition to vote down something that opens the door to calling a GE. Make sure the working relationship with the Brexit Party is such that the northern traditional Labour seats to not by default return to Labour. Do not be deluded into thinking that those seats could ever become Conservative.

    • Andy
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

      It is cute that you think leaving the EU puts Brexit to bed. On the contrary Brexit day is the day it starts.

      You have to make our country better – as you promised in 2016 – while making nothing significantly worse. And you will be blamed for everything that goes wrong in the meantime. That’s how it works when you’re the status quo.

      And when you fail – and you will fail – the next generation will simply undo Brexit for good. And you will literally be able to do nothing to stop them.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

        But things went wrong whilst we were in the EU.
        It seems you think all good things are due to the EU.
        But anything negative that happens is not the fault of the EU.
        Bizzare logic.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

        zzzzzzzzzzzz

      • agricola
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

        While we are making it better no doubt you will continue your dissatified whinging. Why not clear off to any part of the EU that might benefit from your drive and energy.

  22. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    Basically, Mrs May’s mess, as is the WA.
    That she has the cheek to open her mouth one fraction in criticising Johnson is incredible.

    • Brian Smeath
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

      Now that Johnson has chosen to rubber stamp her deal, how do you feel?

  23. Alec
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    Yes we do need an election. Clear this disgusting mob of traitors, con men, liars and general low life out. The problem is that we are likely to be sold out to brussels, AGAIN, before that happens.

  24. Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Sir John, I am becoming increasingly worried about the future.
    The majority in parliament including the very powerful Speaker are all very much in favour of cancelling the referendum by devious means and they have more or less won the game. There is no chance that they will accept any deal at all because what they seem to want is permanent membership.
    Poor Mr Johnson has to capitulate unless they agree to a deal and we all know there is no time for that now.
    So we will have to stay in.
    What will happen then, heaven only knows! But it won’t be nice. Usually we accept stuff in our stoic British way and grumble. Like rain, trouble sweeps in.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

      Poor Mr Johnson . . .

      Oh do me a favour Mike ! He / we would not be in this mess. All he had to do was prevent the Benn Act from becoming law – he didn’t !

      He made his ditch, now he should just go and lie in it !

  25. Everhopeful
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    Fixed term parliament and no majority.
    Both brought to us by Tory leaders.
    ( WHY did no one wonder why Corbyn agreed to the 2017 GE?…he doesn’t want one now does he?).
    Talk about shooting oneself in the foot.

  26. Fred H
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    A fair summary of the position since PM took action against those who ignored the Ref result, ignored the manifesto and openly collude in favour of remaining int he EU.
    The nonsense of this present Parliament may well be extended YET AGAIN demonstrating to the electorate the need to confirm how their views should be supported.
    Is it to be Johnson or Corbyn(or McDonnell?) It is IN or OUT of the EU?
    Is it the voice of the UK, or should Scotland be allowed another vote (sigh) on independence?
    How long does the UK continue to have its tail pulled violently by the Remainers? How long do the policies of SNP and DUP hold centre stage?
    Westminster should move out for rebuilding and establish in a new site for England’s Parliament.

  27. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Yes, the Queen’s Speech was not a subject for debate for the reasons that you give, John.

    However, getting Her Majesty to give what amounted instead to a party political election broadcast was certainly a first as a gimmick.

    • sm
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

      Do you find it acceptable that the Speaker, Messrs Letwin/Benn & Co, the Supreme Court and its friends bend the rules or make up new ones as they go?

      Since the Opposition don’t want a General Election, they have walked themselves into the position of the Queen’s Speech being an early manifesto for the Conservatives.

  28. APL
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    JR: “The present Parliament has substantial negative capability, but is unwilling to come together to achieve anything.”

    When the then leader of your party and the deputy leader put the ‘fixed term Parliament’ act before Parliament, did you support the bill?

  29. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    And so say all of us.

  30. A.Sedgwick
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    The Queen’s speech is an anachronism along with the wholly undemocratic HoL.

    It was disgraceful to inflict this irrelevance on HM given the political situation and her age.

    She is truly an amazing person and most respected in the world.

    • rose
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

      I think she was very pleased to play her part at the heart of our constitution after such a long session. It reminded us all who is really our Sovereign after the disgraceful scenes we saw in the House of Commons and the Supreme Court.

  31. Robert McDonald
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    We need a general election, very true … however the opposition knows it is exposing itself to the public as bereft of positive policies and most obviously bereft of democratic principles. They will avoid the cataclysmic response of the electorate as long as they can … the MP’s who are betraying our democracy want to keep their cushy jobs.

  32. villaking
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Extraordinary times I agree, a period that will be of huge interest to future historians and I am grateful for open contributions from those, like you, in the public eye (although I disagree with your opinion on most things). I expect future history graduates to reference much of what you have said publicly. A perfect storm with an issue of unparalleled national importance as the backdrop, a uniquely divided nation, a hung parliament, unprecedented mistrust of the PM, an Opposition under the control of Marxists, the unintended consequences of the FTPA and evolving constitutional changes. Clearly an election is needed and would already have occurred but for Brexit and the PM’s veiled threats to defy the law he childishly refers to as the surrender act. An election must be coming but I also note that our leading psephologist Sir John Curtice sees it as impossible to call. More drama ahead, what a turbulent Christmas we can expect.

  33. glen cullen
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    We are in extraordinary and revolutionary times

    Close down parliament….withdraw Tory MPs from the HoCs, all committees and any government business until a general election is called

    Don’t work to rule, rather completely remove all Tory MPs and tell them to go on holiday until an election is called

    You’ve got nothing to lose as you can’t currently get any business though the HoCs

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

      Parliament is supreme, sovereign. It cannot be arbitrarily closed down, and quite right too.

      Did you miss the recent Supreme Court case?

      You don’t really understand how our country has worked for several centuries, do you?

      What do you think happens in countries with PR, where no party has a majority?

      • Edward2
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

        The people are supreme.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:16 am | Permalink

          Where is the law which says that?

          There is one which says that Parliament is.

  34. BJC
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Of course we need a GE, but it won’t happen until Labour make up their collective minds about the best way to get rid of “vote-winner” Corbyn. To keep their demanding membership onside the best delaying tactic they can come up with is an undemocratic Ref2, which also has the rather convenient side-effect of preserving their jobs.

    Meanwhile, we all look on with a bemused sense of incredulity as we wait to see what our self-appointed proxy government (Parliament) can dream up next.

    When this Parliament has met its inglorious end we can never let this shambles happen again. We should resist the knee-jerk reaction of a written constitution, as in the first instance the answer has to be a Speaker who acts with honour and integrity.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2019 at 5:12 am | Permalink

      The problem is, ‘we’ the voters. If every party had to fight tooth and nail for every vote up and down the land, we would get the government and democracy we deserve.

      Stop voting LibLabCON. Vote for someone else.

  35. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    This is the worst parliament in my lifetime.
    The calibre of MPs is the lowest I can remember.
    The fact that they aren’t prepared to support measures, with which they agree, because they are being introduced by a Conservative government shows the sad state we are in.
    The majority of MPs are undermining our democracy and are unfit to represent the people of the UK. The sooner they lose their seats the better.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

      Brian…..agreed. Voiced on here over and over again…..but still it goes on. A GE soonest, please.

  36. Leaver
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    Looks like I need to add the D.U.P to the E.R.G and Labour. All of whom are now stopping us leaving.

    Sometimes I wonder if anyone actually wants to leave the European Union. All these ‘leavers’ say they want to leave but then choose not to.

    We should have left on May’s terms six months ago. Please please please can we leave the E.U now.

  37. Oggy
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    I have just written to my Labour MP saying just the same, I don’t expect any sort of constructive answer because she and the opposition parties has the Government where they want it. Keep it a zombie Government with it’s hands tied and occasionally introduce an SO24 with the kind help from Bercow and rush through all manner of shenanigans to throw various spanners in the works.

    This Parliament is totally useless and a disgrace, the sooner it is gone the better.

  38. Hope
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    JR, Cameron made it clear with his Gay marriage law that the Queen speech is not required nor included in a manifesto. It demonstrates both serve no real purpose. It only acts as a false debating point for you lot at Westminster.

    Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement is Mayhab’s pig with lipstick! He told us the deal was dead. He seems to think changing th backstop is a different deal! Steve Baker said last night your party is not opposed about dual court system in,our country! Can you imagine any country in the world where immigrants are allowed to refer to the court where they came from! Level playing field to prevent U.K. being a competitor to the EU, this is a central point for leaving! The UK should be capable of making its own regulations and standards be they higher or lower as it deems fit. It does not have to copy the EU. Again, if parliament is only capable of copying it serves no purpose to the people. Any MP ranting about copying EU workers rights etc needs to resign as they are incompetent. Blaire had ample opportunity to change workers employment laws he chose not to!

    We also note Johnson’s new quango on environment! What is the Environment Agency for! £1.3 billion cost to the taxpayer, plus additional costs to us in our community charge for the same things ie flood defence. Now another quango! Bloody idiots. They were meant to be got rid of. We have ministeries. If ministers do not want to lead or regulate do not accept the job. Bonfire of left wing quangos required ASAP.

  39. a-tracy
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    I believe all the opposition are highlighting is why a remain coalition wouldn’t work. It is just too political, the Scots are just a negative bunch about everything. They hate England and it shows it every word they utter and they just remind us every time they speak how much they want to divide people. The SNP want to be in the EU because as the EU keeps highlighting all the time (i.e. with Southern Ireland) small nations get control over big nations, they can veto and charge the larger nations for their mistakes, have different taxes to take our businesses, vote against the large input Countries to their own benefit and the big nations will eventually wake up as the UK has done when the bill just gets too big and their own public are having to use food banks, low priority lone males can’t get housing and are left on the streets and no-one in the middle can afford to have children.

  40. Dominic
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

    Brexit deal agreed – is this the betrayal or a genuine process of leaving the corrupt and abhorrent EU

    Has the ERG and the DUP been ‘bought off’?

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

      not a penny – hence the little ‘difficulty’.

  41. BillM
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Has there ever been such a dire position for a UK Government? A minority Government in the past has always used the ballot box for the people to decide what and who they want.
    However, our present Government is effectively banned from doing so because the Remainers in Parliament are determined to betray democracy and press forward with their own agenda, even though, according to their Party manifestos, they were elected on a Brexit platform. The British people are not legally protected from such treachery. The law is at fault.
    British Law is in a disastrous state and must be addressed at the earliest opportunity. I hope we do not have to wait until 2022 for a chance to voice our opinions.
    Had hopeless Mrs May not made another of her crazy decisions to run a General Election in 2017, we would be awaiting the next in May – just 7 months away.
    Can we please turn back the clock and see Boris installed as PM in 2016? I wish.
    It is clear that May, a Remainer, was not going to play out the principles and procedures laid out in here Lancaster House speech once she made contact with the Brussels bullies and even with a change of PM and Cabinet, the impasse continues to this day. Now coming up to a long three years and four months after we voted to leave the wretched and now decrepit EU. Leave means ‘get out of’.

  42. JoolsB
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    This is a classic example of why England needs it’s own parliament. The Scottish & Welsh Parliaments have been able to get on with their domestic issues over the last three and a half years unlike English domestic issues which are still under the domain of a UK Parliament and MPs from across the UK and therefore thanks to Brexit have been put on the back burner (or swept under the carpet – e.g. tuition fees review) for the last three and a half years. The Queen’s Speech mentions plans for adult social care, the NHS. education, regional potential (balkanisation) of England, extra police, new sentencing laws. Most of these are England only and NONE of them apply to Scotland and the fact you have to ask the SNP which ones they will support is an absolute disgrace and an affront to our democracy.

    For someone who purports to speak for England John, maybe you could stand up in Parliament and ask what right the SNP have to vote on these matters in the first place. And you could also ask your Government why equal funding for England and the right to self determination the same as the rest of dis-UK enjoys isn’t part of the Queen’s Speech.

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      JoolsB, On devolved issues, it amazes me that Scottish MPs have a say on whether our shops open for the same duration as their shopkeepers in Scotland are able and said NO, why would Wales and Northern Ireland MPs have a vote on this devolved matter either? Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland MPs voted for student tuition fees for English students only, including those studying in Scotland where they are supposed to be on the same terms as all other EU students. Then in 2004 they got the policy of increasing them from £1125 to £3000 through (without them the vote wouldn’t have carried). We are absolute mugs in England, the Scottish Blair, Brown, Darling etal have a lot to answer for. Foundation Hospitals for England and so on.

      • JoolsB
        Posted October 19, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

        I know a-tracy. Sadly we have no representatives in the UK Parliament who speak for England to speak out against this outrage. It’s stuffed with self serving UK MPs who just happen to be squatting in English seats who can’t even bring themselves to say the word England let alone stand up for it. Why we English put up with it is the biggest mystery.

  43. Pat
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

    Should the Queen’s speech be voted down does that constitute a vote of no confidence?

  44. Andy
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:13 am | Permalink

    So El Presidente has redone Theresa May’s deal – but swapped out a bit to make it worse.

    Bravo Brexiteers, bravo.

    And MPs get no time to read the full details of this predictably monstrous deal.

    When it comes – and it will come – the electoral retribution on the Tories will be brutal.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

      Yet the Conservatives are well ahead of Labour in recent polls with Boris way ahead of Jeremy as preferred PM.
      Bring on the general election.

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        Edward 2

        “Yet the Conservatives are well ahead of Labour …”

        ‘were’ ahead of Labour. Now they’re just as bad and will go down with them at the next election.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

          Not according to recent polls.

    • eeyore
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

      I don’t normally respond to trolls, but today is special.

      Whether Boris wins or loses on Saturday is now immaterial. I guess he’d prefer to lose. The big vote at the coming election is certainly in losing. I sincerely hope our kind and wise host will help him.

      More importantly, we have learned a great secret of British politics: you cannot get past a referendum result. The tectonic plates have shifted. It is possibly the most important constitutional development since 1689.

      • Andy
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

        Alas – you make some fundamental mistakes.

        You confuse the unpopularity of Labour under Jeremy Corbyn with the popularity of Boris Johnson. A decent Labour leader would be 20 points ahead. And, ominously for all of you, Corbyn is not only 70 and close to retirement but the policies he’s left behind are surprisingly popular.

        Within a couple of elections you’ll regret the direction Brexit has turned the country. Certainly the Singapore on Thames model you hope for is not happening. Voters will not accept it.

        Secondly, you have not realised what is happening down the line. You see it has always been the case that many people start off more left wing and move to the right as they get older. This is why Tory support is negligible among the young and very high among the old. But what you have done with Brexit is kill off this process. Brexit is a permanent deal breaker for swathes of younger people. And by younger I mean under 50s. They will never vote for you.

        So as your elderly supporters die out so will your party. It will not be w quick process. It’ll take decades. But it is coming and, sadly for you, you can now not stop it.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

          Yet the Conservatives are still ahead in recent polls.
          Completely ruining your theory.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        Yes, sensible people have learned never, ever, to have a referendum about anything important, ever again, other than to cancel the last idiotically-conceived one.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

          Any evidence for your claim Martin?

        • libertarian
          Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

          Marty

          That would be the sensible people of Switzerland , the most successful country on the planet

          Youre not very good at this are you

          • margaret howard
            Posted October 18, 2019 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

            libby

            “Marty

            That would be the sensible people of Switzerland , the most successful country on the planet”
            ===

            They’ve got an educated, intelligent voting population. I heard one women interviewed today (I think it was in Barnsley) say she voted Brexit because: “I don’t like them, I like us”

            Says it all.

    • steve
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      “When it comes – and it will come – the electoral retribution on the Tories will be brutal.”

      Have to agree on that. I’ve voted conservative all my life and can tell you this much – NEVER AGAIN !

      Next election the tories will find voters going for the their throats, so to speak.

  45. Rule Britannia
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    I think that’s the point – the strategy seems to be to continue as they would in a normal parliament thereby showing how abnormal this situation is.

    This makes the case for repeal of the FTPA very clear – we cannot have opposition parties controlling the parliamentary agenda for years – of they want to do that then they must become the government. However, the FTPA seems to allow them to do so without the incumbent PM being able to prevent them by calling an election.

    A totally flawed piece of legislation that was pushed through without considering the consequences. It has to be repealed (like so many of recent times – porn laws, IR35 to name but two).

    • ed2
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

      This makes the case for repeal of the FTPA very clear – we cannot have opposition parties controlling the parliamentary agenda for years
      A totally flawed piece of legislation that was pushed through without considering the consequences.

      >
      It was a master stroke by Blair and has served its purpose. Blair new a Referendum was on the horizon and the only way to stop it was if the opposition at the time controlled Parliament.

  46. Mick
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:28 am | Permalink

    Off topic
    I see that a deal as been agreed, and all the usual suspects are shouting that it’s a bad deal, we are never going to leave unless what seems a good deal is not voted through and why should Northern Ireland 1.8 million being let to hold us to ransom , and as for another referendum do the MPs think for one minute we trust them not on your nelly we don’t, we know it would be rig one way or another to keep us in

    • rose
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

      It is not the people of Northern Ireland who have held us to ransom but the IRA and Sinn Fein.

  47. margaret howard
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    What a mess you Tories have made.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

      It is the remain biased Parliament that has made a mess.

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        Edward2

        Actually in a sense Margaret Howard is right. Not a pair of balls between them, is what has caused this.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

          You can only work with the votes a particular Parliament will produce.

      • bill brown
        Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

        Edward2

        Your forecasts and predictions are so predictable that it is about to get really boring

  48. stred
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:09 am | Permalink

    The BBC, with a smirking Irish female announcer, has just confirmed that we will be paying the £39bn extortion and that almost all of the May capitulation, described by the Commission as colonial, will be what Boris thinks is leaving. He hopes that the Brexit Party will now have MEPs and will go away. He is mistaken.

    • stred
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

      not now have MEPs

  49. David Maples
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    If the Queen’s Speech is rejected, Parliament will be reduced to passing a budget, and if they won’t do this(to embarrass Boris), then all taxation in the next financial year will be illegal, collapsing the whole financial system. A state of emergency would have to be declared.

    If I may mention Brexit briefly, clearly a Boris Brino, May’s Brino, or any other similar deal that the EU will string out indefinitely pending a free trade agreement that they have no intention of agreeing to, is unacceptable. Consequently, there is only one toy left in the box, and that is no-deal. There is a massive economic and financial crisis coming, and so all economies are going to need to re-balance and re-calibrate anyway, so let’s stop angsting over tariff and non tariff barriers, as these are nothing compared to inflation and unemployment.

  50. Fred H
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    I include verbatim: –

    10 big wins from just leaving the EU on 31 October
    By johnredwood | Published: July 8, 2019

    We can

    Spend all the money we save on our priorities

    Cut tariffs on imports especially where we cannot grow or make them for ourselves

    Remove VAT from items as we wish – as with green items like insulation and boiler controls and feminine hygiene products

    Rebuild our fishing grounds and land more of our own fish for home consumption

    Work with our farmers to cut food miles and enjoy more home grown produce

    Regain our seat and vote in international bodies

    Sign Free trade deals that suit us with other countries – all the time we were member s they never managed an FTA with the USA and many Commonwealth countries

    Decide our own laws

    Cut the costs of government by getting rid of a whole unnecessary EU level

    Avoid all the financial and foreign policy risks of the Euro and common EU foreign policy.
    ————–
    Which of these are Big wins?

    • Brian Smeath
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

      None of those wins come if Johnson’s craven deal is approved!

  51. Roy Grainger
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    The Queen’s Speech is just the next Conservative election manifesto – no harm in that really. I suggest you organise a vote on the Domestic Abuse Bill immediately and see if the SNP dare to oppose it.

  52. Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Quite right, Sir John

    We do hope that the Conservative manifesto will make plain that we want a GATT 24 outcome from Brexit, if the new deal fails in the H of C.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

      That old GATT 24 chestnut.

      You want the EU and the UK to use an article in a manner it what not designed for and hope no one else in the WTO will object.

      No chance of this happening.

  53. davies
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Indeed, thats all we have heard from Corbyn the past 2 years, week in week out

  54. gregory martin
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    Only 68 pages, does this make it acceptable, Sir John?
    ec.europa.eu/commission/publications/revised-withdrawal-agreement-including-protocol-ireland-and-northern-ireland_en

  55. Caterpillar
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

    Final paragraph (need for GE) will be more so given Letwin’s continued antidemocratic game playing amendment today. If there is an amendment Saturday for a divisive 2nd referendum (i.e. Remain vs WA) then Conservatives should attempt to vote this down / again call for a GE (attach amendment for GE). I guess a 2nd referendum of No Deal vs WA could be argued for, but it took me 2 weeks to read last WA (I guess it will take most people about this long) so even with instantaneous legislation time required would not get UK out by promised 31st October.

  56. Denis Cooper
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    I think the DUP need to think seriously whether they would actually be endangering the Union more by helping to keep the rest of the UK in the EU against the will of the majority than by holding their noses and voting for the deal agreed by Boris Johnson.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:01 am | Permalink

      This isn’t a ‘deal’. Stop using your MP’s deception message. It is a Treaty with no exit and one that not only keeps us bound to the EU, it keeps us under their heel as a vassal state.

      And to think you rubbished Mike and I over our preference for EEA / EFTA.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted October 18, 2019 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

        1. It is a deal formalised in a treaty.

        2. It does not keep us bound in the EU.

        3. EEA/EFTA would have involved continued free movement of persons and would not have avoided checks at the Irish border, even if they were as light touch as those between Norway and Sweden.

        • Mark B
          Posted October 20, 2019 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

          The Johnson / May ‘deal’ still allows the free movement of EU Citizens and, it allows their rights to be overseen by the ECJ over our own courts. Not even Norway has to suffer this !

          • Denis Cooper
            Posted October 21, 2019 at 11:11 am | Permalink

            No, it does not allow free movement of persons as defined in the EU treaties and required of all EEA member states, that is a false claim.

  57. Tabulazero
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    For the avoidance of doubt: have you realised that what Boris Johnson is bringing back is pretty much Theresa May’s deal, right ?

    Either you vote for it or Boris Johnson will seek the votes he needs from Labour by offering to put it against remaining in the EU in a referendum.

    • Andy
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

      I told them this a year ago. Brexit would basically be Theresa May’s deal with a few tweaks – and it is. What I hadn’t realised that the tweaks would not be to make the deal better, they’d be tweaks to make it worse.

      A united Ireland is now an inevitability. In the short term too. As is an independent Scotland. The real cost of Brexit is not £39bn. It is our Union and the prosperity of our children and grandchildren.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

        Boris Johnson’s surrender bill is even worse than Theresa May.

        It basically leaves the transition period open in perpetuity.

        Do you think the usual suspects and rabid brexiters on this blog have realised that yet ?

      • Edward2
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

        You are trying to predict the future Andy.
        I think your vision is wrong.
        We shall see.

      • Matt
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

        Andy – nothing lasts forever as we can see from history – and the English taxpayer can’t be expected to shell out 12 billion per annum forevermore to a NI with a population of only 1.8 mìllion – it doesn’t make sense politically or economically and neither is it fair to the English economy. I can’t see the strategic advantage anymore either – so if Southern Ireland can make it on its own then I don’t know why NI cannot do the same – somethings got to change – the DUP will never change so long as we keep holding their hand.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

        Well Andy, I don’t fear the break up of the union.

        The noisy neighbours, constantly sounding off at all hours, and at any excuse, leave me wishing for an English Parliament – they get one – but WE don’t.
        Relocate the thousands of Civil Service jobs, the military bases, the shipbuilding, the choice of where we buy energy. The Barnett formula savings, absence of the constant carping – peace at last.
        They should be careful of what they wish for – I’d let ’em go.

      • Erroron
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

        There will be no United Ireland. Just in name only

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

      No, wrong.

      https://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/whats-new-about-the-new-brexit-deal-an-explainer/

      “What’s new about the new Brexit deal? An explainer”

  58. Carson
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    Voting for Johnson’s deal will give the Irish what the IRA never could – an enfeebled Ulster cast adrift by London. Please please do not vote for this surrender of our fathers and brothers, mothers and sisters

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

      Thats good ! The DUP haven’t exactly been a great help to successive Conservative governments. Bought for a hat full of silver. Shouldn’t need bribery!

    • Tabulazero
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

      Not voting for the deal will give the IRA what it wanted all along: economic chaos & disruption which will lead to a border poll.

      • MakingWaves
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

        Sooner or later, but more likely sooner, there will be a border poll but it won’t be because the IRA wants it- it will because the changing NI demographics will demand it- probably in five to ten years

    • Brian Smeath
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

      Correct. Is this the United Kingdom? Not if Johnson gets his shameful betrayal through. I call on MPs of the Conservative and Unionist Party to defend all four elementsof our Union

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

        Oh. Well revoke Article Fifty then.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

      As I see it the problem with this plan is that it applies import controls, that is to say controls on goods being imported into Northern Ireland, rather than applying export controls, that is to say controls on goods being taken across the land border into the Irish Republic.

      As I have repeatedly argued the EU should only concern itself with the goods that are produced in or enter its own territory and should not presume to try to dictate what goods can legally circulate in Northern Ireland or the rest of the UK or any other “third country”.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

        GB produced goods can circulate in NI I believe, but cannot proceed over the border without being stamped produced in NI(UK) and duty being paid. A nice little earner for NI

        • Denis Cooper
          Posted October 18, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

          As I understand all goods circulating in Northern Ireland must conform to all EU requirements, and not just on the duty paid, because otherwise in the absence of legal export controls and the absence of any border checks some goods which the EU regarded as contraband would be free to pass over the border.

    • Yes
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

      That’s right.

  59. Sue W
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

    How could Boris betray us so? He has let himself and us down as badly as May did and it hurts more this time. I pray the “deal” is rejected and we can either leave properly or not at all.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

      He betrayed you 3 years ago by putting forward a form of Brexit that had no chance of ever happening.

      It just took you a while to notice.

    • Len Dann
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

      BETRAYAL it is. Boris Johnson is no patriot

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

      Well, that would probably be “not at all”, then. Is that what you want?

    • Horatio
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      Absolute betrayal. Dressed up with the connivance of a fawning media.

    • steve
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

      Sue

      “I pray the “deal” is rejected ”

      Won’t make any difference, as next general election we’ll get the slimy invertebrates out anyway, Labour, Libs, Conservatives – the whole stinking lot.

      • Jeremy
        Posted October 18, 2019 at 2:17 am | Permalink

        It will make a big difference as we will have signed an internationally binding treaty (this so called deal) that cannot simple be overturned by the next government.

        I too pray the “deal” is rejected.

        ERG please stand up for the UK and vote against Johnson.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

      Sue

      By agreeing the new treaty with the EU, Johnson has complied with the Benn Act. If Parliament rejects the new Surrender Treaty, for that is what it is, then as President Juncker himself has said, there will be no extension and we Leave.

      President Junckers threat, and it is a threat, is to the Remain MP’s of which there is a clear majority. So I fear we have been betrayed, yet again, by the Tories. After this term in office they will never see power again.

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

        Mark B

        “After this term in office they will never see power again.”

        Amen to that. We can never risk betrayal again, and we need to drain the swamp and have future parliament subservient to the people who elect them.

        We must never again have spineless or corrupted leaders, which rules out liberal minded pansies and those with interests abroad.

    • Chris
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

      Agree, Sue W. What about all those assurances from Boris quoted by the Brexiteer Tory MPs that the WA was dead? I had a strong feeling that Boris would betray us, and he has done. We need Lawyers for Britain analysing it pdq.

      There is an unseemly haste by many Tory MPs to praise Boris before they can possibly have understood it. That indicates to me their lack of wisdom, intelligence and expert knowledge. They are fools to let themselves be bounced into it and reassured by spin and platitudes. Get some decent legal advice and analysis on this agreement drawn up by Boris with the EU, and some rigorous scrutiny of the differences between May’s WA and PD and this latest treaty agreement. Only then are these MPs in a position to make an informed decision.

  60. Tabulazero
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Will you vote for Boris Johnson’s surrender bill ?

    It is even worse than the one from Theresa May you sabotaged in the sense that the transition period is not limited. It will be rolled every two years if the EU agrees to it of course.

    But if you do not vote for it, will you continue to be a member of the Conservative party ?

  61. Tabulazero
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

    I am having such a fantastic day today because all the lies and misrepresentations tolds by the Brexiters over so many years have exploded right back into their face.

    Either the ERG vote for that or Boris Johnson will seek the votes he needs from Labour which will require that the deal be put in a referendumn against remaining (aka the UK will remain because it is really a bad deal)

    or

    Boris Johnson does not get his deal through courtesy of the ERG and he has to seek an extension before calling a general election and watch the Conservative party explode.

    Anyway, the Conservative party is doomed !!!

    Brillant!

  62. Dominc
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    You have one job and that is to protect the private person and their freedoms from an increasingly authoritarian British state

  63. ChrisS
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Like most of the regulars posting here, I want to see us leave the EU at the earliest possible date. For this reason, I want to see the Boris deal get through Parliament.

    Yes, I know it’s far from perfect, but we are not going to get another chance to leave without a second referendum. Our Remainer Parliament will see to that.

    I only hope that our kind host chooses to support his Government by voting for the deal.
    It will still be touch and go so every vote will count.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:05 am | Permalink

      Wrong ! I want to Leave and that’s that !

  64. Jon Reade
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

    Please tell us what you actually think about the surrender mark ii treaty.

  65. Original Richard
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    The reason we require a GE is because we have a Parliament trying to thwart Brexit despite leave winning 64:36 by constituency and where many MPs are not abiding to their individual manifestos at the 2017 GE and worse still are politically defrauding their constituents by changing parties with no intention of resigning and seeking re-election.

  66. Eh?
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    A foreign power telling us how to vote, removing the veto where the veto is absolutely necessary and even if it were not, that is only a matter for us to decide.
    Also a foreign power as Boundary Commissioner.
    That is no deal at all.

  67. Chris
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

    A significant update in D Mail on Boris and the DUP. Arlene gets straight to the point (and she is right, in my view).
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7583929/DUP-not-Boris-Johnsons-Brexit-deal-saying-undermines-integrity-UK.html

    “The DUP tonight doubled down on their opposition to Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal tonight and insisted that they would vote against it on Saturday. It has accused Boris Johnson of losing his nerve during Brexit negotiations as senior figures in the party said the PM had been ‘too eager by far’ to reach a deal with the EU. The Northern Irish unionist party dropped a Brexit bombshell on Mr Johnson this morning as it said it could not support his proposed divorce agreement. But he decided to push ahead with the accord anyway as he gambled on being able to get his deal through the House of Commons without the support of the DUP’s 10 MPs”

    • rose
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

      What I want to know now is whether Northern Ireland will be able to have Free Ports.

  68. tim
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    Brexit party, Nigel farage for PM, the only honest man in politics.
    I always knew bumbling bafoon Boris would betray us.
    My grandfathers, my uncles gave their lives for these wretched EU sycophants.
    Bet you dont allow this.

    • hefner
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

      Lost.

  69. Chris
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

    From the Bruges Group: Barrister’s Briefing Note on Boris’s Deal
    https://twitter.com/BrugesGroup/status/1184868809032847362

    This does not make good reading and those falling for Downing Street spin should certainly look at this, and then see what Martin Howe, Lawyers for Britain, has to say.

    Boris has apparently gambled that he can ditch the support of the DUP (if report in D Mail is to be believed) because he has gained support from Tory rebels including Soames. The role of the ERG is critical, and I would hope that they stick to their principles and show some backbone and integrity.

  70. Polly
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

    Who rules the British roost during the ”transition period” ?

    The EU fox, also known as The G S Organization.

    Are Conservative MPs seriously going to vote for such a stitch up ?

    They’ll also be abandoning the DUP which is shocking seeing that the DUP kept them all afloat for so long.

    Polly

    • rose
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

      It is indeed shocking and very upsetting. It isn’t just that the DUP helped keep the Conservatives afloat. It is that they are such very decent, law abiding, patriotic, loyal people, who only want the best for the country, and they have been abandoned in favour of a group who are the very opposite, who exercised silent blackmail over us.

  71. Chris
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

    More on that Bruges Group article (Barrister’s Briefing Note). After the Executive Summary below, there are specific provisions that “restrict” “prevent” “control” UK freedoms. These are of huge concern and the list can be seen in my continuation comment below this comment.
    https://www.brugesgroup.com/blog/the-revised-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration-a-briefing-note
    The Revised Political Declaration

    Introduction

    So far as we are aware the only material changes in the Withdrawal Agreement (Treaty) are to the NI Protocol, which means that the critical ECJ oversight and Art 184 link to the Political Declaration remain. I am told by UKREP that there are two changes to other Articles in the Treaty but they were unable to tell us which ones.

    Executive Summary

    The Treaty permanently restricts our military independence, demands payment of an unspecified sum, prevents independent arbitration, grants EU officials immunity from UK laws, leaves us with EIB contingent liabilities running into tens if not hundreds of billions and will impose punitive laws on the UK during a transition which is likely to be extended until mid 2022 (just a few months before the next General Election).

    The Political Declaration is such that a future FTA with the EU is made unpalatable because it will restrict our foreign policy and military independence as well as policies in trade, tax, fishing, environment, social and employment, competition and state aid. Free movement is replaced with vague notions of “mobility” and “non discrimination”.

    • Chris
      Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

      Continuation of my comment above: source Bruges Group Barrister’s Briefing Note. I have listed the subheadings below for all the points considered by Benjamin Wrench. See main article for details of these points:
      https://www.brugesgroup.com/blog/the-revised-withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration-a-briefing-note

      “Specific Provisions in which the Withdrawal Treaty:-
      1.Restricts Parliamentary independence
      Just as before, the Court of Justice of the European Union (ECJ) governs the entire Treaty and EU law takes precedence – binding future British Parliaments and requiring judges to overturn laws passed by the British Parliament if the ECJ considers them to be inconsistent with obligations in the Treaty. (Articles 4, 87, 89 and 127).
      2. Restricts independent trade policy
      3. Prevents an independent tax policy
      4. Controls Fishing
      5. and 6. Prevents independent military action
      7. Restricts Foreign Policy
      8. Demands Payment of a sum to be decided by the EU
      9. Replaces one Commission with another
      A new body is established with ‘powers equivalent to those of the European Commission’ (Article 159).
      10. Prevents independent arbitration
      11. Grants EU officials immunity
      12. Imposes a gagging order on the UK
      13. Leaves the UK with EIB risks but no profits
      14. Imposes EU public procurement rules
      15. Makes the UK a bystander in laws that govern it
      Benjamin Wrench Barrister
      Brussels, 17th October 2019

      • Mark B
        Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

        Thanks Chris

        • Chris
          Posted October 18, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

          Barry Legg, Chairman of Bruges Group, has also produced a short statement of the Group’s position (on BG website). They are not backing Boris and his “defective deal”.

  72. Polly
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

    In fact, when one thinks about the giveaways during the free trade negotiations, such as fishing and ”level playing field considerations” etc etc, it’s perfectly obvious that Brits are never properly going to escape from the EU at all. They will always be controlled in many respects in order to get that mirage of trade.

    Brexit therefore is turning out to be like a clockface where 1 – 6 are spent talking about leaving.. and then 7 – 12 are the free trade negotiations and giveaways which bring the whole thing back to the starting point as if nothing much has happened.

    How perfect for the EU !

    Polly

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

      Because we have a Remainer Parliament. They do not want to govern because that means taking responsibility. Too risky for their cushy careers.

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 18, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

        At the next election, we all need a way to find out more about the actual people that are standing for our vote. What are their true positions on questions of national matters that are important to us? We should be able to question them on an open blog. Because as we’ve discovered in great detail in the past few years we elect them not the party and the party has no way of getting shut of them if they leave the party. This situation in Peterborough, Sheffield, the #Tory22 we need to be clear who they are.

  73. Simeon
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Can you see a feasible way to Brexit without a WA? (You have made your position clear, such that it seems implausible that you would vote for BJ’s deal.)

    The only way I can now see is via a GE with Mr Farage becoming PM. Whether this is actually feasible or not only the electorate can say…

  74. Original Richard
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    I can see many MPs not voting for the PM’s new Brexit WA simply because there will then be no excuse to not have a GE and they don’t want to lose their job until forced to by the end of the FTPA.

  75. ukretired123
    Posted October 17, 2019 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

    Order, Order?
    More like
    Disorder, Disorder!

    Honourable MPs?
    They don’t Honour the 2016 Referendum to just leave EU deal or No deal, inventing excuses.
    Freedom 100 years ago meant freedom and Sovereignty.

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

    Promoted by David Edmonds on behalf of John Redwood both of 30 Rose Street Wokingham RG40 1XU

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