Leave on 31 October

As I expected yesterday the Commons voted for the Withdrawal Treaty Bill to have a second reading, then voted down the Timetable motion needed to allow further progress on the Bill.

Some MPs voted for the Bill, then switched and voted against its early proceeding. They did so knowing the PM has promised we leave, with or without a deal, on October 31.

In order to leave with this unhappy “deal” the Commons needed to pass all stages by Thursday so the Lords could do the same, to complete the Bill by end October, just 8 days away.

The only way forward from here that might deliver a good Brexit on time is to leave on 31 October without signing a Treaty, offering a free trade deal as we leave. I have been trying to get the government to do this for sometime. Maybe more will now see trying to compromise with a Remain Parliament by offering a watered down Brexit does not work.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Both comments and trackbacks are currently closed.

141 Comments

  1. Pominoz
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:12 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    ‘The only way forward from here that might deliver a good Brexit on time is to leave on 31 October without signing a Treaty, offering a free trade deal as we leave’

    Please let it be!

    • Stephen J
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      Yes agreed, it seems there are better minds here than currently in parliament.

      • Richard
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

        I noticed the phrase ‘John Redwood’ trending on twitter yesterday (in UK anyway), so our hosts efforts must be having some effect!

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

      The only way that can happen is if the EU does not offer an extension.

      Very unlikely

    • Norman
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

      Agree – that would indeed be I-DEAL!

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      Obviously Ken Clarke graciously suggested only 4 extra days would be needed.

      I’m sure that will give enough time for Remainers to tack Customs Union, Single Market, ECJ and a “people’s” vote onto this deal

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        What could be more democratic than more voting?

        • dixie
          Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:11 am | Permalink

          Voting isn’t democracy, it is each person having an equal say where voting for representatives/delegates is only one mechanism. In this case the government committed to implement the 2016 referendum outcome and Parliament agreed to that commitment. Government and Parliament in particular has broken it’s contract with the electorate.

          What is the point of more voting if the government does not do what it promises.

          And when a government refuses to meet it’s solemn commitment what do you think will happen when people don’t just stop voting but withhold their consent on all matters.

    • Peter
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

      Agree. I am not sure how Boris can just leave though, given various parliamentary decisions. Then again, Boris may have a trick up his sleeve.

      I am not really sure that Boris does want to leave without a deal though. As soon as he abandoned the filibuster he played straight into Remain hands and things have never been the same.

      I suspect Boris would be happy not to leave with or without a deal – if he can portray himself as thwarted by a Remain Parliament and go on to General Election victory. I also suspect many Tories are happy for him to do so in order to remove damage done by Mrs. May.

    • Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      So many of us are with you there, Pominoz! What a huge relief it would be.

      THEN the remainders can begin their campaign of winning hearts and minds to persuade us we should have a second referendum about re-joining their much-revered EU. It’d make a nice change to have that lot extolling all the ‘good’ things about being in it, rather than all the ‘bad’ things about being out!

  2. ian
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:19 am | Permalink

    Are you sure BJ wants to leave, he can if he revoke article 50 himself?

    • Zorro
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

      My head says that BJ just wants this deal so that he can play at being PM in normal circumstances. He appears to be an opportunist. He has no intention of leaving without a deal as he said yesterday. He has his deal in principle (in his eyes) and will just keep pushing it. The same if he wins an election. It is outrageous after all his campaigning in 2016 that he settles for this….

      Zorro

      • Mark B
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • dixie
        Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:22 am | Permalink

        Agreed. For many politicians it does appear that what is important for them is not the issue but being the person who controls the flow of influence and decisions of any issue. Same in the City it is not the purpose of the investment that is the focus, it is establishing and maintaining the flow of cash that they take a percentage from that is paramount.

        Boris enjoys the game he doesn’t care about the outcome – he has sought an extension but is still outside the figurative ditch.

  3. Prasanna
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    Mr Johnson offered a watered down Brexit. Applying EU rules until at least end 2020 and probably longer, subject fully to the ECJ, Northern Ireland separated from GB. And you voted for it!! So did every other Conservative MP. Well, your choice, but now we know the truth – if we want a true Brexit, we know we must never vote Conservative. It’s Farage or nothing now

    • Stephen J
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:45 am | Permalink

      Yes what has changed? 5% of the May treaty has changed for the worse and all the ERG think it is great and we should discuss it no further . We should just pass it…

      … For the sake of the party.

      Yuk.

    • Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      ”… you voted for it..” I don’t believe that’s correct. Surely it was a vote for a second reading?

      Reply Precisely. As I expected it turned out to be meaningless vote as the House had no wish to get on and try to put it through.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      Dear Prasanna–Crazy that Boris not only won’t work with Nigel but aggressively traduces him or at least allows him to be traduced by his followers. All to protect the failed wretched Conservative Party. What needs protection is an unadulterated Brexit and to hell with the Conservative Party. Boris and Nigel together would of course win big and why not?

      • margaret howard
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

        Leslie

        ” Boris and Nigel together would of course win big and why not?”

        Should this happen then I think it would be appropriate to repeat the the old headline in the Sun newspaper against a Kinnock win in the 1992 general election:

        “Will the last person to leave Britain please turn out the lights.”

    • Posted October 23, 2019 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

      Keep your hair on….! So, the ERG are all dim wits who can’t see that this, so called, ‘deal’ is nothing more that T May’s BRINO with make-up on?

      What rubbish. These are a body of men and women who have campaigned hard for Brexit for xxx years.

      What were they supposed to do? This was a difficult decision. Please listen to Steve Baker’s speech to the ERG on Saturday morning.

      It was a tactical decision as, even though very imperfect and a risk, looks to have Brexit done by the end of next year. No, it’s not leaving, but it would be a path to leaving in just over a year’s time.

      Also, the game is multi-faceted, with a remainer parliament. Looks like the gamble paid off. Now, the PM looks the hero. He’s done everything parliament wanted.

      Hopefully, now we get a GE and a WTO Brexit.

    • Posted October 23, 2019 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

      …also, very importantly, the passing of the current WA would revoke the 1972 EEC act and the Lisbon Treaty.

      Right there is a Huge win!

  4. Prasanna
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    Here is your letter to the Attorney General earlier this year expaining clearly how Mrs May’s deal is not really Brexit. https://www.brugesgroup.com/blog/letter-to-the-attorney-general-about-the-withdrawal-agreement
    All correct. So kindly explain to us how Johnson’s deal, which you voted for yesterday, meets any of the flaws that you list

    Reply I set out yesterday again in the Commons the main bad features of the Withdrawal Treaty.

    • Zorro
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:39 am | Permalink

      Reply to reply – constituents are asking why you voted for it instead of abstaining

      Zorro

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:07 am | Permalink

      And still voted for it?

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

        Answered below by your reply

    • Butties
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:31 am | Permalink

      Kate Hoey did not go through the lobby, any Rt Hon could have done the same.

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    Exactly. There is no cliff edge so just leave offer a free trade deal and then negotiate from a position of strength without putting the £30+ billion handcuffs on.

    Just leaving is far, far better than the Boris deal. The Boris deal is not really leaving and it damage our ability to negotiation any sensible trade and other arrangements and divided up the UK.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:41 am | Permalink

      ‘divides’

    • Zorro
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      BJ shown in his true colours with this awful handcuffs deal!

      Zorro

    • Dame Rita Webb
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

      Boris must fancy his chances fighting a Winter election. The NHS will be in its usual crisis mode, the roads and rail tracks blocked with snow and their is chance the lights will go out too. It will not take too much from Mr Farage to convince the voters of the foolishness of handing over £39bln plus to improve the infra structure of continental Europe.

  6. turboterrier
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    The game for that is what it has become is dead, everybody and party each playing with the electorate with there own secret agendas and aspirations.

    The talk about getting rid of these politicians who have lied and dodge around voting for what they said they would support is just that, talk. They know that unless their central offices throw them out they will have a good chance of getting reelected come a GE and this madness will continue. You and some of your colleagues very few in number are true politicians in you say what you do and do what you say. I along with thousands I should imagine are totally sick to death of the antics of Westminster.
    Something has to be done to drag Westminster back into the real world and stoop these people just flying by their pants on a wing and a prayer for the duration of their tender of five years and the rewards that follow for lamentable behavior and performance.

    The current situation is proof enough that you cannot put old heads on young shoulders especially when the country is in such a politically weakened state.
    The future of real democracy is at stake and there is a real urgency for mammoth change. Railroading people into accepting legislation out of fear driven primarily by the media and certain elements of high industry is no the way forward to a successful prosperous country. Mays CO2 Bill went through with hardly a murmour and its long term damage will be greater than leaving the EU. That is how bad our political system has become. Sadly for a great many of the electorate politicians like you did not and were never considered by your peers to be considered as the solution to leading the country out of the humiliating mess it finds itself in.

  7. Simeon
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Even without your vote the WTB would have passed. Would it be fair to say that, given your vote was not to be a casting one, you decided to hold your nose and vote for the WTB, as otherwise… you would have lost the whip?

    No one hearing what you have said, and reading what you have written, can be in any doubt about your views on this proposed Treaty. Given these views, your vote in favour of it appears to be one merely of expedience. Is this a fair reading?

    I would be surprised if you were not asked by other posters to reveal your reasoning behind yesterday’s decision.

    Reply Neither option on offer was what I wanted as the choice was no Brexit or this Brexit. I want an immediate no Withdrawal Agreement Brexit. If I had voted against many would have interpreted that as wanting to stop Brexit. The vote was just to give the Bill a second reading, then opening it up to amendment and criticism. Contrary to government spin it was not the vote to accept the Withdrawal Agreement.

    • Simeon
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:15 am | Permalink

      Reply to reply

      Thank you for your response.

      Many may have interpreted such a vote as intended to stop Brexit. They would of course be ignorant fools. It is not clear from your reply, but some would infer that you decided BJ’s deal was better than no Brexit. I didn’t think this was your position.

      Finally, I would agree that the choice is this ‘Brexit’ or no Brexit given the present Parliament. I would make the point that this Parliament is not forever. It is clear that you have great loyalty to your party. Do you believe your party will be rewarded in the next GE if it ‘gets Brexit done’ with this deal?

      Reply I stated my wish to leave without a Withdrawal Agreement. I voted for the Bill to have a second reading, not for the Withdrawal Agreement, knowing it was unlikely to make more progress given the pending loss of the Programme motion. As my words show, I do not agree with important parts of the Withdrawal Treaty.

      • Simeon
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply

        I accept that you weren’t voting in favour of enacting the ‘Brexit’ outlined in the WA. In the grand scheme of things, this particular vote wasn’t of great significance, contrary to the government spin you mention. It does seem to me now that, though not a racing certainty, the probable conclusion to this stage of events is Boris’s deal ratified subject to a referendum. I believe this to be the case because I still don’t see that there will be any deal that commands a majority in the House – unless Boris decides that accepting the Customs Union is a price worth paying to potentially split his party. Given his Herculean efforts to unite the Tories, this seems unlikely.

        What I think is absolutely clear now is that a clean and proper Brexit will have to be fought for tooth and nail, because it is clear that, yourself excepted, your party is willing to settle for this Boris fudge that offers the mirage of a clean break Brexit (eventually, at some point) that your ERG colleagues are pinning their hopes on.

        Do you believe it possible that Parliamentary scrutiny of this deal can kill it off once and for all, and if so, would BJ finally accept that your method is the only way of delivering Brexit cleanly and properly?

        Reply The Government May not try to progress the Bill. It is not on the agenda this week or next on their current plans. Were they to bring it back it could get amended in ways they do not like. I am not committed to voting for it to become a law.

        • Simeon
          Posted October 24, 2019 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

          Sir John,

          Again, thanks for your reply. BJ is now again attempting to call a GE. If the next public ballot were a GE rather than a referendum, can you see how BJ’s policy would be anything other than ratifying this new Treaty? He has expended all his political capital on securing and warmly commending this ‘great deal’. I just don’t see how he could credibly pivot to a clean break Brexit. It does seem, one way or another, that we will find out whether BJ’s deal survives contact with the electorate…

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:18 am | Permalink

      No Brexit is better than this Brexit.

      • Original Richard
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

        The worst possible outcome is no Brexit.

        Not only will our deep state establishment have destroyed democracy directly through refusing to implement the result of a referendum they gave the people but indirectly by membership of the EU where the people of this country will have no further influence over the laws, taxes and policies to which they will be subjected.

        Decisions will be made either by the EU Commission who are unelected and un-removable or by QMV by 28 – soon to be 35 or more – countries and where there is no longer any veto as Mr. Cameron himself discovered in 2011 when the EU simply made new rules to stop him applying our veto.

    • Zorro
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      Yes, second amendment will hopefully let people throw in ridiculous amendments that even BJ cannot countenance. All a bit deja vu really. I am afraid his no deal threats are losing their impact. He clearly won’t do it….

      Zorro

    • Oggy
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      Reply to reply, – I too think Boris’s bill passed to second reading but the timetable motion didn’t because the opposition parties wanted to add large numbers of wrecking amendments to it. I don’t believe for a minute they suddenly want to leave the EU with this bad deal which they have already said is worse then Mrs May’s.

      I would like to think the WAB is now dead, but get the feeling it will be back.

      All eyes now on Boris to see if he has the backbone to get us out on the 31st ‘do or die’ as promised. If not Tory support will collapse.

    • James Bertram
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      ‘The vote was just to give the Bill a second reading, then opening it up to amendment and criticism. Contrary to government spin it was not the vote to accept the Withdrawal Agreement.’

      A really important explanation, Sir John.
      None of us could understand how ALL of the Conservative Eurosceptics voted for this – frankly, it brought shame on them. A few abstentions, at least, would have seemed in order.

      Moving forward, our great hope is that over the coming weeks the WBA is shredded by amendments (perhaps even one by the DUP to reverse their betrayal?). The Government should recognise this now as a likely outcome, and as you say:
      The only way forward from here that might deliver a good Brexit on time is to leave on 31 October without signing a Treaty, offering a free trade deal as we leave. I have been trying to get the government to do this for sometime. Maybe more will now see trying to compromise with a Remain Parliament by offering a watered down Brexit does not work.

      However, The Tory Party will first have to accept that it is now time to put Country before Party; it is time to finally sideline the many Remainers within your party; for this is the only way for the Tories to retain power.

      I wish you the very best of luck with that.

      • Simeon
        Posted October 24, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

        BJ could have advocated a clean break Brexit, even if it could never have happened because of the Benn Act, but the time for that has passed. By his words and deeds he has committed himself to this deal. He cannot credibly advocate a clean break Brexit now.

        If BJ ever did want a clean break Brexit, it is unforgivable stupidity that he failed to recognise that he could not achieve it through this Parliament. The only viable course was to call a GE on becoming leader – which he would have been given by the House. He could then have campaigned on a platform of leaving the EU no later than the 31st, then negotiating a trade deal with the EU – whilst not neglecting to secure trade deals with other important countries as appropriate. But I think it’s quite clear that BJ never did desire a clean break Brexit.

        Finally, it is worth pointing out that the ONLY Tory MP who failed to express their support for the WA prior to the pulled vote on Saturday was Sir John. Every single one of the others, irrespective of how reluctant they might have been, publicly indicated they would vote for the deal as it stands. That occasion, rather than the Second Reading vote, was where the shame was.

        Reply I continue to object to significant parts of the WA and urge the government to adopt a different course.

    • Jon Reade
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      Reply to your reply – nobody would have interpreted a vote by you against surrender treaty mark ii as a vote for no brexit, appears a poor excuse for party before country.

    • Brian Tomkinson
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      Reply to reply
      Sir John,
      If, as anticipated, this rogue parliament amended this agreement in significant ways, would that not fundamentally alter it and as such no longer be the same WA as agreed between the UK and the EU? Would it then have to be re-examined by the EU and agreed or rejected?
      Reply Parliament cannot amend the underlying Treaty and get away with it.

      • Simeon
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

        Reply to reply,

        With respect, would the EU not welcome the UK back into the CU, were such an ammendment to be accepted by BJ (this would surely be a concession too far, even for BJ)? How could the EU lose out here?

        Also, an ammendment to provide for a confirmatory referendum would surely also be welcomed by the EU. It does not touch the WA itself, so no issue there, and they have previously been very clear that an extension for a ‘democratic event’ would be looked upon favourably.

        Finally, isn’t it obvious that any ammendments tabled by the likes of Hammond and co. would have already been run past the EU and received their endorsement?

  8. Mark B
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    They did so knowing the PM has promised we leave, with or without a deal, on October 31.

    I seem to remember that this PM and many of his predecessors made promises with regards to the EEC/EU that were never kept. From, “No significant loss in sovereignty” too, “Dying in a ditch !” with regards to a further extension. All promises made, and all broken. Is it any wonder we no longer believe them.

    I have been trying to get the government to do this for sometime. Maybe more will now see trying to compromise with a Remain Parliament by offering a watered down Brexit does not work.

    The obvious thing to take from the above is, given the people will, as expressed in three elections and a referendum, it is shocking to think that we have a parliament that is diametrically opposed to those that have put them there. The fact that Parliamentarians cannot, and will not recognise this, is a matter of deep concern. Parliament has engineered a Remain Coup. It falsely, as it has turned out, claimed to respect and would therefore implement OUR decision to Leave the EU, and gained reflection on the back of this. It did so knowingly that it would have to betray us and sought to put back until 2022 the next GE. It is a bad parliament and must go !

    • Sharon Jagger
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:01 am | Permalink

      On LBC yesterday, Theo Usherwood was implying that Mr Redwood’s insistence that we go straight to free Trade Deal was a source of angst to the government.

      This worries me, that perhaps all the rhetoric about “no deal” is just that…rhetoric, and not serious.

      • rose
        Posted October 24, 2019 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

        Theo Usherwood can be quite creative in what he says.

        I have never been able to take him seriously since he came out as a screaming socialist worker type when he entered the studio to find Farage in conversation with Steve Bannon. He berated Bannon in such an exaggeratedly hard left way that he should have been sacked but of course he wasn’t.

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:15 am | Permalink

      MPs like Ms Sandbach just don’t understand why their associations have deselected them. Then she voted once again against the government yesterday. Give us the chance to replace her she should be standing with a yellow rosette on, in 2017 she stood on a blue manifesto!

  9. Dominic
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:51 am | Permalink

    There are two dragons to slay. One, Remain. The other, Marxist Labour. The first is easy. We leave assuming the political will exists to do so, which I believe doesn’t. The second is more difficult. It needs the BP to succeed in the North against a party that died in the 70’s and now represents a direct and existential threat to this nation and our freedoms

    We cannot rely on the Tory party to implement a plan to destroy liberal left authoritarianism and identity politics. We need a party with spine to confront the rise of this most pernicious form of social engineering, ethnic displacement and the dismantling of a client state that does the bidding of Labour and their ilk

  10. Bob Dixon
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:52 am | Permalink

    This leaver wants this to happen.Its the only way out.The UK regains control.We then need a GE.

    • Stephen J
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      We need the general election first.

    • ian terry
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      Bob Dixon

      We then need a GE.

      With the media, big business driving project fear into meltdown I do wonder if we could end up with something very similar to what we have got. If so God help us all.

  11. /ikh
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    I fully agree with you. I do not want Boris’s deal to pass and would like to leave under WTO terms.

    /ikh

    • Prasanna
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      In what sense do you “fully agree” with Sir John? You do not want the deal to pass, Sir John solenmnly walked through the lobby to ensure it did pass! Back Farage, not the Tories

    • Andy
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      Vote for the Brexit Party then.

  12. Jasper
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    Sir John – I agree but how can that happen when there is the Benn Act? Parliament is going to destroy this country economically- businesses cannot cope for much longer with this uncertainty!! Germany is officially now in a recession, that will have an impact on the UK also.

    • Peter Wood
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:24 am | Permalink

      Jasper,
      Germany is in recession because nobody in their right mind will buy a new car with an internal combustion engine. The Green lobby has won that argument.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

        not buying a new car makes sense, as does buying a used one that is not diesel or electric. The green lobby is pi**ing facing the wind.

    • ian terry
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      Jasper

      I agree with your comment about destroying this country but not I fear only economically. Absolutely spot on.

      how can that happen when there is the Benn Act?

      Well a lot of people have been shouting for the swamp to be drained . It wasn’t and this is what you end up with. Until there is massive change starting with the position of speaker it is all smoke and mirrors and a lot of the politicians keeping their heads down and trying to survive for another 5 years. We the electorate put up with all this tosh and they get away with it because they can.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

      Dear Jasper–Look on the bright side–with Germany in a recession and our money switched off maybe the Euro will blow up and the sooner the better. Continental Europe has always caused us major problems and for that reason alone we should find ways to work more closely with America and the rest of the Anglosphere. Geography becomes increasingly less relevant. Personally I think Trump is great and a breath of fresh air but for those who think different he will not be there forever and in the wider scheme of things he will be gone in a blink of an eye.

      • Mitchel
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

        I disagree,geography is becoming more,not less,important.If you look at what China and Russia are doing in terms of pipelines,roads,railways,shipping routes,etc,the whole Eurasian landmass is becoming more connected and trade more focussed internally.Emmanuel Macron gets what is going on and views with alarm the possibility of Europe “disappearing” into an asiatic Sino-Russian condominium if it does not engage with this process.The US is voluntarily or otherwise on the road to isolation and the idea of a “geopolitical” EU expanding further east a non-starter- indeed,this week as expected accession talks with Albania and N Macedonia have been dropped.

        • Leslie Singleton
          Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

          Dear Mitchel–Did you take note of the recent 19 hour first non stop flight to Australia and that was just a conventional flight without the high tech digitised and all the rest advances that seem to grow with ever increasing acceleration and also without the rocket-propelled flights currently being tested. Physically shipping anything especially goods made of metal will soon seem slightly crazy given the emissions. Ships have big dirty diesel engines.

          • Mitchel
            Posted October 24, 2019 at 9:39 am | Permalink

            Yes I did but trans-eurasian rail is expected to take business from both sea and air.

          • Fred H
            Posted October 24, 2019 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

            Mitchel, so is that steam engines burning COAL (surely not!) diesel ( what! – all that pollution) or electricity with new overhead lines laid end to end? More radical still – by Maglev?
            Poor Greta will have a breakdown with your answer.

          • Mitchel
            Posted October 25, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

            Fred H
            As,according to the DB Cargo Eurasia website,co2 emissions are 92% lower than by air freight and one third less than by road,I think Greta would be very pleased.The rail networks already exist,-in essence modernised versions of the old imperial Russian and Austro-Hungarian networks,linked up with the new Chinese silk road railway with digitised control systems.

            Russia is promoting it.China is promoting it.The EU is promoting it.It’s happening-fast- as the statistics for container volumes crossing Eurasia indicate.

  13. Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    I find it distasteful that the DUP seem to have been let down by this WA. They have provided invaluable support to the Tory government since May’s disastrous GE, and now are ditched for the greater good – or just convenience.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

      What is more galling is that they lent their support to keep Labour and its leader out of Number 10 due to his past associations and yet, both our previous and new invite him to sit down and talk about the UK’s future. Disgusting !

  14. Shirley
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    Why has Boris not challenged the Benn act? Why do legal challenges from Brexiters never see the light of day? Why are Remainer legal challenges always fast tracked? Something stinks very badly in the houses of Parliament and the PTB. Trust is now non-existent and we can’t even trust any manifesto promises presented in a GE. It’s becoming a case of how many lies and fraudulent promises can political parties get away with, in order to get elected. Honour and integrity? Pfft! They don’t exist in LibLabCon!

    • Mark B
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

      They veil is now being lifted from yours, and many other people’s eyes. I guess things will never be the same again

      🙂

  15. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Good idea but I don’t think that the PM will dare.

  16. David Webb
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    Yes, I take your suggestion of just leaving to a be a good one. Or a 10 page withdrawal agreement – offer 30bn euros upfront (not over decades) for immediate talks on a trade deal (allowing tariffs and border checks to remain unchanged under the WTO for some years); offer to put the Irish common travel area on a treaty basis; offer to give the Irish permanent access to the same percentage of British fish they have now, with other EU fleets seeing their quotas gradually reduced over 4-5 years; and offer a deal on citizens’ rights justiciable in the Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague and not the ECJ. Offer that mini-deal in around 10 pages on a take it or leave it basis.

  17. Zorro
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Indeed, by going with this WAB, they are storing up more issues. The only way you will get the EU to agree tariff free trade is by concentrating their minds on their economic interests and particularly now. Surely to God our useless politicians can see this! They will only deal with you if they respect you.

    Zorro

  18. Stephen J
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    I am very frustrated by the attitudes of some of those ERG people… Steve Baker and IDS in particular seem to be exchanging possible peace in their tory party for a bad treaty.

    Shameful.

  19. julie williams
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    Why not work with other like-minded Parliamentarians and organisations to seriously challenge the implementation of Article 50 and, in particular , Clause 3 which says that “this period” ie the two year period can be extended; it does not say that the extension period can be extended , with another extension …..
    Article 50 has proved to be a bitter joke.
    There are plenty of organisations prepared to stand up for Brexit but they are fragmented and will not work together, we need to unite and go to the EU courts about this EU nonsense.

  20. oldtimer
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    I watched the result and then stayed on the Parliament channel to hear the Business Statement from JRM, as Leader of the House and then points of order. It is evident that MPs do not understand their own procedures. The WAB is in limbo, or stasis, not because of Johnson’s decision, but because of procedure which ties their hands. And guess what, Mr McLoughlin, former Tory chief whip, pointed out that the change was introduced c2010 by the then Labour government. It was pointed out that the legal default is leaving without a deal. JRM also pointed out that BJ had not signed the letter required by the Benn Act. Leaving without a deal is now the best outcome. Businesses cannot stand or afford continued delay and uncertainty. Some will go bust. This truly is the House of Stupidities, as I described it the other day, utterly unfit for purpose.

  21. Stred
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    Benn and his co-plotters have been collaborating against the British government with a hostile power, recorded as attempting to make his country into a colony. They should be immediately charged with treason and removed from office. The bill was passed illegitimately by ignoring the rules of the HoC with the connivance of a rogue Speaker who should also be charged and removed. The Queen should be informed and asked for her opinion. If she wishes to ignore the democratic vote then we need to look at the monarchy and succession. An early election is necessary.

  22. agricola
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    Maybe this is plan “A” designed to thwart all the devious and dishonest in Parliament who only wish to remain subjects of the EU. I hope this in fact is what is happening.

  23. Roy Grainger
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:05 am | Permalink

    We know what you want but it is currently impossible. The government is currently obliged to accept the offer of an extension to 31st Jan if the EU make one. They have said they will never facilitate a WTO exit so (if we believe them) Benn and co will pull the same trick over and over again as each deadline approaches. They will be facilitated inside your party by the large “one nation” group of MPs who will threaten the PM whenever WTO approaches.

    The only route to WTO is to vote for TBP whenever we get the chance, it may require more than one general election. Do you have another suggestion ?

  24. Tabulazero
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Why do you call this an unhappy deal ?

    It is obvious that the UK will never have the time to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU in less than a year. Michel Barnier said so.

    This deal leads to a no-deal Brexit by December 2020. That is pretty plain to see.

    That is what you always wanted. You should not be unhappy about it.

    • libertarian
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

      Tabulazero

      Once again demonstrating that you dont have even the most basic understanding of trade .

      Do you have any idea what you voted for?

  25. A.Sedgwick
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    The more detail that has emerged on this Treaty the more unacceptable it is. BJ from the start has pandered to Brussels et al, he should have confirmed his address and waited for the politburo to visit. Now he should tell them all to refuse any extension as it will only get worse for EU and UK, at the same time tapping up likely member states to veto any proposed extension..

  26. John Sheridan
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    “The only way forward from here that might deliver a good Brexit on time is to leave on 31 October without signing a Treaty, offering a free trade deal as we leave.”

    I agree, but I suspect Boris and some of his Cabinet would balk at the idea.

  27. villaking
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    Sir John
    There was finally a form of Brexit that the majority could vote for. Parliament, not unreasonably, just wanted an acceptable period of time to scrutinize and consider amendments (of which there could have been quite a few). What difference would it make to anyone if we left on, say, November 14th instead of October 31st? It is a near certainty that the EU would have granted a short extension. The end of October was a date invented by the EU. Boris Johnson foolishly made it totemic. A few extra days would have made no difference

  28. Lifelogic
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Some excellent news that Ken Clarke (the BBC favourite lefty remoaner) says he is not going to stand again for parliament. But then he did promise this back in 2015 but then stood in May’s appallingly botched 2017 election.

    Not that he would ever have got in as an independent.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:48 am | Permalink

      Are the a Conservative party now ensuring that the traitors (or the likely to become traitors) are all being replaced by new candidates who can actually be relied upon not to turn into some new traitors who will try to undermine the next government post the next election?

      Many even in Cabinet are clearly in this category. May must surely go too.

  29. Alison
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:34 am | Permalink

    Wholeheartedly agree with your post.

    As you also say in a reply (to Simeon), this was not avote to accept the Withdrawal Agreement. But it is being spun as that.

    You made a very moving speech yesterday (and your voice gave away your depth of feeling, despite the restrained words – something Hansard won’t capture).

  30. Nigel
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Is the PM not legally bound to accept an extension if it is offered? If so how can we leave with no deal on 31st?

    • Mark B
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

      My understanding is that we have to accept whatever the EU offers in terms of time and quite possibly, conditions. A very bad state of affairs if correct.

  31. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    JR: “The only way forward from here that might deliver a good Brexit on time is to leave on 31 October without signing a Treaty, offering a free trade deal as we leave.”
    Agreed but this EU loving parliament and Speaker would never allow it.

  32. Snowjoke
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    As I understand it, The European Communities Act is still being repealed on 31 October, and no money resolution has passed for future payments to the EU. Nor is the Government obligated to bring forward legislation on these matters, even if Parliament’s extension is granted and has to be accepted.
    Is that right?

    Reply Largely right

  33. Kevin
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    The P.M. responded to the frustration of His Deal by reactivating his only other
    option: preparations for “No (We Never Voted for Your) Deal”. This would
    mean that instead of having what the P.M. wants for us, we will have our
    money, our fish stocks, our legal sovereignty and our foreign policy. That is right,
    yes, he is “threatening” to deliver what we voted for.

  34. Andy
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    A watered down Brexit? Johnson’s Brexit is an extreme Brexit – one notch along from no deal.

    The problem you all have is that the winning Vote Leave campaign did not just promise to leave the EU. They promised what leaving the EU would be like.

    They said we would have more money, not less. This is not true.

    They said there would be less red tape. This is not true.

    They said there would be no impact on Northern Ireland. Not true.

    They said Brexit would be a carefully managed change. Not true.

    They said we would negotiate a new deal before triggering A50. Not true.

    And so on. All the stuff they said Brexit meant, Brexit does not mean.

    Come back with an offering that matches the promises and MPs will vote for it.

    Why will you all not just do what you said you would?

    • dixie
      Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:37 am | Permalink

      I didn’t vote based on Vote Leave promises, they were in no position to implement anything. I voted simply to leave and on the basis that the government of the day and Parliament committed to implementing what we decided – Leave.

      I always expected the EU to put up a fight against us, I did expect that the entire establishment would rise up and fight against the democratic decision of 34m voters.

      You Remainers have destroyed our democracy and you will reap the whirlwind

  35. Gareth Warren
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    I am not entirely convinced Boris was serious about the 31st, the effort put into negotiating with the EU shows us at least their power over this parliament.

    We regularly see them meet with other parties in government and openly use them. If we are forced into an extension then he has no other excuse then to admit they act in bad faith and continuing to go along with this is accepting it.

    I do not believe the Benn act has power over money, we should cease all payments into the EU and events will then force us out of the EU.

    If instead he agrees an extension I predict this bill will be so heavily amended as to be useless, parliament here is predictable. and after that it will be (for a few exceptions such as brexiteers like yourself) the brexit party I put my trust in.

  36. Julian Allder
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    From the Benn Act:

    “If MPs haven’t approved a deal in a meaningful vote, or approved leaving the EU without a deal by 19 October, then the prime minister must send a letter (specifically worded in the Act) to the president of the European Council which seeks an extension to Article 50 until 31 January 2020. If the EU agrees to the date, then the prime minister should also agree.”

    Note the use of the word “should”.

    ‘Must’ and ‘should’ are both modal verbs. MUST is used when expressing obligation or an unavoidable requirement, whereas SHOULD is more of a recommendation.

  37. Anonymous
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    The only way to reunify this country is by having a general election with each candidate’s EU inclinations foremost. We will then get a Parliament as closely representative of the people as possible under the circumstances, be that a Leave one or a Remain one.

    Leavers will accept that if they lose. Reunification is what we all want and hope that Remainers would be similarly accepting.

    A second referendum will only be rigged for Remain so will not reunify our country.

    • Andy
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

      Nor will a general election. A general election will, probably, return a Tory majority. But most voters will, probably, back parties which either oppose Brexit or, at least, want another referendum.

      I’m afraid Brexiteers have not realised that Remain is here to stay long after ‘Brexit is done’. The vast majority of younger people oppose Brexit – all we have to do to undo it is wait.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

        correct – about 20 years by my reckoning. Basically when us over 60s are dead, and the vote has been given to the over 12s. Taught by the children/grandchildren of people like you. A real dystopian come to pass.

      • dixie
        Posted October 24, 2019 at 8:00 am | Permalink

        @Andy – it was 41 years between the first and second referendums. Those who voted to remain in 1975 were in the older cohort you deplore who voted to leave. So why do you think the same won’t happen to youngsters after we leave.

        Perhaps you think you can keep agitating to rejoin but you would then be overtly collaborating with a foreign power that can’t help but try to materially disadvantage us. Also, you claim to run a business, but who would do business with someone who is undermining our economy and security

        So I think you will have a greater struggle than those who persisted in pressing for leave over the 41 years. And based on your early blubbering on this blog I don’t think you have the required steel, energy or dogged persistence in you.

        .. After all aren’t you supposed to running a full time business, supporting a growing family and two homes in France, where ever would you find the time – or perhaps that is all lies.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

      They will not give us a GE precisely because of this. That is why they (the Opposition) will go for another Referendum to anul the first and give them an excuse to revoke Article 50.

      The plan was always to delay, prevent no deal / clean BREXIT, negotiate an appalling ‘deal’ / new EU Treaty, and then offer us a choice between that and Remaining in a referendum.

      They, the political class and the Establishment, want to cancel BREXIT but, will not dare do it themselves, they need us to do it for them so that it looks legit. Cowards !

  38. alan jutson
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Yes more delay before leaving, with more concessions yet to come from the remainers who will want to add all sorts of further give aways to the already dire WA Agreement.

    Then another 2 years plus of concessions as we talk so called trade and many other aspects, indeed I forecast so many concessions will be given that in the end it will render the exercise absolutely pointless as we will still be under EU control at the end without any say whatsoever.

    We need an election that hopefully get us back on track with a sensible WTO agreement.

  39. bill brown
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    Sir JR
    To Quote you :

    “the only way forward from here that might deliver a good Brexit on time is to leave on 31st October without signing the Treaty-offering a free trade deal as we leave”

    This will then be leaving against a majority in Parliament wishes , which would be totally undemocratic as they have voted for the government deal.

    Secondly leaving and then negotiating a trade deal with the largest trading block in the World will not only take a long time as we know, it will also put us at a disadvantage in terms of size and potential opportunities.

    Sir Jr, you can do better than that?

    • libertarian
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

      Billy

      Once again you display your total ignorance of international trade .

      No idea how you’ve made a living at this . You really ought to do more research , but then you dont even know your own name

      • bill brown
        Posted October 24, 2019 at 7:14 am | Permalink

        Libertarian,

        You get into your old routines and because you do not know how to behave you just keep going

  40. will
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    I can see EU coming back with – ‘extension not agreed by 27’-

    So we leave by default 31st- however EU Council will grant a cooling off period until end of June next in case we might want to reconsider – in the meantime we fizzle out

    • Fred H
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

      their cooling off period would likely be 10 years.

  41. John Brown
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    The HoC having passed the WA treaty in principle, Labour are still saying they want the UK to belong to the EU’s CU.

    This would mean accepting any and all trade deals made by the EU (this would also be the case if we were inside the EU and subject to Commission decisions or QMV decisions). The result would be :

    1) Any deal would not be taking into account the UK’s type of economy, but rather those of Germany (cars) and France (food/wine).

    2) Whilst the 3rd country with whom the EU had negotiated a deal could apply the new tariffs to goods exported to the UK, the UK would still have to accept the old tariffs when exporting to the 3rd country.

    How daft would that be ?

    But not a surprise because Labour’s goal is to make the population poorer and in their eyes more likely to vote Labour.

  42. Jack Falstaff
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    It seems clear that if we are unfortunate enough not to be able to leave on 31 October, then we need a General Election a.s.a.p. before the Remoaner parliament tables any more more crass amendments to water down to death the agreement between Mr Johnson and the EU.
    This raises two questions: how exactly can the Prime Minister force an election now and how can we rest assured that past allegations of result-rigging (particularly through double-voting by exploiting the postal vote system) have been addressed and that the voting system has been made water-tight?

  43. BOF
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    ‘The only way forward from here that might deliver a good Brexit on time is to leave on 31 October without signing a Treaty, offering a free trade deal as we leave.’

    That should become the Party mantra Sir John.

    An election is desperately needed but if there is any chance that we may still leave with this shameful treaty then I will not be able to lend my vote to the Tories.

  44. Mark Richmond
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Sir John, Are you able to say more about what MPs mean by scrutiny? It might sound like the answer should be obvious but my intuitive answer would be: as lawmakers MPs need to scrutinise in order to decide how best to enact the agreement into law. But I get the impression that Labour are intent on changing the agreement not deciding how best to enact it. What should happen in your view?

  45. Denis Cooper
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:01 am | Permalink

    I read that the 10 DUP MPs voted against the government in both divisions, against giving the Bill its Second Reading and against the programme motion, and I read here:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/10/boris-johnson-has-lost-dup

    “Since the prime minister agreed to the withdrawal agreement – and with it a customs and regulatory border in the Irish Sea – it has been clear that the DUP are in no mood to help his government escape from the hole it has dug itself. They voted for the Letwin amendment, against the deal legislation’s second reading, and against the government’s programme motion.”

    And in the first and third cases their votes actually swung the result: if they had voted for the programme motion then it would have passed 318 to 312.

    “Had Johnson not lost those 10 DUP votes – which, in striking a deal that hived off Northern Ireland, he clearly calculated he could do without – he would not be in so deep a hole. Can he ever win them back? As long as the deal remains unchanged, the answer is clearly no.”

    It seems unlikely that the EU would be willing to embark on further renegotiation of the Irish protocol during the next, now inevitable, Article 50 extension period; but then the formal decision on the present extension period explicitly ruled out any negotiations on the Withdrawal Agreement or the Political Declaration, yet they took place.

  46. Polly
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Recall Boris Fudge due to it’s poisonous ingredients…..

    ….and walk out of the EU without risk of bellyache on Oct 31.

    Way to go !

    Polly

    • Ian Pennell
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

      @ Polly

      Unfortunately, there is something called the Benn Act that could dissuade Boris Johnson from “Just walk out of the EU…on Oct 31”.
      —-

      If Boris Johnson were really Brave and Principled he would do two things:

      1) Make our esteemed host Sir John Redwood (or Brexiteer Steve Baker) his Deputy PM – ready to take over should Boris Johnson be arrested and Jailed.

      2) Travel round Europe (minimising arrest) and point-black refuse to accept ANY EXTENSION offered by the EU. He should also lobby EU governments to veto any Brexit Delay at the EU Council and also get the Government to stop any payments to the EU after 31st October – which will guarantee the UK’s ejection from the EU!

      RESULT: Britain leaves the EU on 31st Oct. on WTO Terms. Boris Johnson is arrested on returning to Britain on 1st November (having lobbied the EU against Delay to the bitter end) and he becomes a Brexit Martyr to guarantee the Conservatives a landslide Election victory. Our esteemed host (or Steve Baker) becomes Prime Minister and calls that snap Election.

      Unfortunately, I am not so sure that our current Prime Minister has the courage and self- sacrificial characteristics to sacrifice his career and freedom for a Clean Brexit!

      Ian Pennell

    • margaret howard
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

      Polly

      Can you name anybody else in the whole world who would want to trade with such unreliable partners as us?

      Still ‘Perfidious Albion’ ?

      • libertarian
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

        Maggs

        Yeh 165 other countries

        Unless of course you think every other country is about to stop buying mobile phones, that other countries no longer want to buy the worlds most advanced cancer scanners , that no one wants Scotch whiskey or James Blunt albums . Of course the city of London being the number one financial centre and trading more fx than all the rest put together , no they dont want that. Turbo jets? No one buys our cars of course or motorcycles, wow how will be think of any products or services to make or sell without the help of some retired Belgian politicians

        Nah youre right why would anyone want to buy world beating products

        Blimey you remainers are dim

        • margaret howard
          Posted October 24, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

          libby

          Which home grown cars are this – Reliant Robins?
          Never heard of James Blunt but Scotch whiskey will disappear soon along with Scotland.

          Not quite sure how many people work for the City’s financial sector but I don’t suppose it will make a large dent in a population of over 65million.

          As it is we were members of the world largest trading bloc and had a voice in its progress. All thrown away now. The most tragic mistake.

          Hope Andy is right and we will beg them to have us back in a few years. But will they want us again?

          • Fred H
            Posted October 24, 2019 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

            They won’t want us back, we are only just learning to become a blood dripping splinter in every aspect of EU policy. Veto, Procrastinate, Veto again. No agreements, wholesale filibustering. Here we come – Farage’s lessons being taken and worked on.

          • Edward2
            Posted October 24, 2019 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

            Have you not heard of Jaguar, Land Rover, Bentley, McLaren, Morgan, Toyota, Nissan, BMW Mini and many more automotive companies.
            Millions work in the UK manufacturing industry and financial services sector.
            Why are you cynical and dismissive?

  47. Bob
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    I have an idea, shred the WAB
    – Trade based on WTO terms
    – No £39,000,000,000
    – No hard border in NI
    – No delay

    If Brussels wants talkies after we’ve left, no problem, we can talk from a position of independence rather that subservience.

    • bill brown
      Posted October 24, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      Bob,

      You really have no idea

  48. old salt
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Jasper –
    Germany and the wider EU may suffer even more in response to their intransigence and particularly their more expensive unreliable cars and other goods, in my experience, leading to superior purchases being made elsewhere.

    • margaret howard
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

      old salt

      “Germany…..particularly their more expensive unreliable cars and other goods”

      Seeing that they have the largest economy in Europe and one of the largest in the world it makes you wonder how they managed to achieve this success. I don’t know anybody in my circle of friends who can be forced to buy ‘unreliable cars and useless goods’.

  49. Anthony
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    But how? An extension has been requested, the EU will grant one. The Benn Act forces the government to agree to the extension or for parliament to vote to agree, which it will. In EU law we are then part of the EU. The Benn Act amends exit day in domestic law to match the term of the extension agreed with the EU. We are then part of the EU in domestic law.

    So we are, at that point, a member state of the EU until the end of the extension period.

    How, under these circumstances, do we leave on 31 October?

  50. nshgp
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    EU law has been cancelled.
    The EU will want money for the extension, and that needs a finance bill and only governments can put that forward.
    [So make sure you get a leaver Labour peer to propose a spending bill, get the Speaker to stop it first – set them up]

    Then tell the EU, we won’t obey and we won’t pay.

  51. Richard1
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Boris has salvaged what he can from the dreadful Mrs May WA. The reason why we are in this situation is Conservative MPs by a large majority decided to leave Mrs May in office long after it was clear quite how inadequate she was. After the 2017 GE campaign. After the ‘need’ for an Irish backstop has been accepted by her. Even after the ridiculous chequers proposal. So I think all Tory MPs who decided not to remove Mrs May – and that does include Sir John – need to accept their own responsibility for the current sub-optimal, but not disastrous, outcome and support the PM in trying to get it done.

    Reply I voted no confidence in Mrs May when we failed to remove her. I did not vote for her to become Leader

    • Richard1
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

      Yes but Dec 18 was far too late

      • Richard1
        Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

        The point is now it’s time to get behind Boris’s deal. WTO Brexit on 31 Oct isn’t an option

    • Fred H
      Posted October 23, 2019 at 7:53 pm | Permalink

      reply to reply…..and to think I thought her harmless but wouldn’t pull up trees at the time !

  52. MeMyselfI
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 10:50 am | Permalink

    If we understand nothing else there MUST be DEMOCRACY and this will only be the case if the UK leaves the EU in it’s entirety on 31st October 2019. To do anything different completely exposes all of those in Parliament for the frauds and charlatans they are.
    We do not need to rerun all the lies that have been told so that the electorate could be duped and then subdued into accepting this most recent iteration of May’ s WAB under the Boris bluster of it being a ‘great ‘deal’ ‘, as anyone with any nous sees it for what it is, nothing more than a slick of lipstick on a very ugly pig.
    No words can really convey what I feel about the ERG supporting Boris’s stance and how I feel disgust of myself for ever believing in them as a force for good. Spartans…..more like Nero, fiddling (and salting away money) while Rome burns. I don’t want a delay, I don’t want a GE, I don’t want to ‘die in a ditch’ but this will be the inevitable outcome as the EUSSR mafia and it’s acolytes in the UK continue to corral and control us by setting the agenda and holding the narrative. OUT MEANS TOTALLY OUT by 31st October

  53. David Taylor
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    It seems beyond reason that the argument advanced for further delay is that M.Ps need more time to study the details of the agreement , I understand that this agreement is substantially the same as Mrs Mays , so fail to understand what their problem is .

  54. The Prangwizard
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    Indeed so, a watered down Brexit will not work.

    It is pointless attempting to reason with the unreasonable, the Remain fanatics and Brexit wreckers.

    All should realise that those who fight dirty must be resisted and get to taste their own medicine. We must get out clear and clean and I for one don’t care how it is done.

    Defiance and no surrender is my view.

  55. ian
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    There is no way to get Brexit under article 50 full stop and, remains are talking about a GE with 16-year-olds voting and other things up their sleeve that way will lead only to a hung parliament as now.
    It is up to BJ to step up to the plate himself and get Brexit done on his own otherwise Brexit is over.

  56. glen cullen
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    Trying to get a ‘withdrawal deal’ with the EU under article 50 was always going to be problematic while the referendum was a binary leave or stay. The current PM exacerbated the issue by trying to fix the withdrawal deal. The problem has always been following the EU planned withdrawal strategy.

    Stop trying to get a satisfactory/best/negotiated/acceptable deal

    Go WTO and negotiate a FTA deal from a level playing field

  57. Hattersman
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

    Overall happy to leave with BJ WA deal, as referendum was close and we need to bring country back together and this seems a reasonable compromise.

  58. Journo green alert
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

    This Parliament will stop any true Brexit.
    Maybe events will change their minds. A major scandal in their ranks would suit nicely. Something huge.
    We shall see if each party has done something very wrong.

  59. ian
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

    40 billion in debt for six months of the year and climbing fast, could be over 60 billion by year-end, all tax are cut off even if BJ could get a budget passed.

  60. Rule Britannia
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

    While many of us see that WTO exit followed by negotiations is the only way to get a decent deal from here, the question for the Conservative party is how they could deliver it, politically with this parliament getting in the way at the HoC and HoL stages.

    They certainly could never adopt it as a preferred strategic aim – or even let it be known that they are interested in doing so. However, it remains the default option and with only a week to go… who knows. All the blame would certainly be with the remainiac MPs who blocked a deal.

    I’ve hoped for this before and been disappointed, but hope springs eternal etc.

  61. a-tracy
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

    How does the individual veto work? If we are still an EU member, take up the place May walked away from (that was a mistake anyway)and veto an extension.

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 24, 2019 at 12:22 pm | Permalink

      On Full Fact it says “the EU’s culture encourages countries to all agree on decisions. On some issues, the rules require this.”

      Well, take up our commission seat as we should never have left it in the first place today and vote to veto an extension, then we get back our equal say to the French President don’t we?

  62. Paul
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

    Wonder if it would it be possible for EU to offer an extension in such a way as to help Boris force the issue, something along the lines that UK leaves as of 31st Oct. but they will allow up to XX/XX/XX for the existing deal to be ratified at which point it will be backdated to the 31st Oct and business as usual will continue until that date or the deal is ratified, but UK voting/veto rights are automatically suspended as we are out.
    Makes it clear to the UK parliament that this is it, no more messing around, no more extensions, take the deal or leave it.

  63. Richard Evans
    Posted October 23, 2019 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

    Slightly off topic but definitely associated with taking “no deal off the table” as sanctioned by the despicable vindictive Bercow with his casting vote.

    Quote – Since the House of Commons has over 600 members, tied votes are very uncommon and Speakers are rarely called upon to use the casting vote. Since1 801, there have been only 50 instances of tied divisions. A casting vote by a Speaker was cast on 3 April 2019, the first since 1993, against an amendment to the Business of the House Motion. Unquote

    Strange how this, the most important of topics in recent times necessitated a casting vote?
    What say you?

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, He graduated from Magdalen College Oxford, has a DPhil and is a fellow of All Souls College. A businessman by background, he has been a director of NM Rothschild merchant bank and chairman of a quoted industrial PLC.

    Promoted by David Edmonds on behalf of John Redwood both of 30 Rose Street Wokingham RG40 1XU

  • John’s Books

  • Email Alerts

    You can sign up to receive John's blog posts by e-mail by entering your e-mail address in the box below.

    Enter your email address:

    Delivered by FeedBurner

    The e-mail service is powered by Google's FeedBurner service. Your information is not shared.

  • Map of Visitors

    Locations of visitors to this page