The choice in the election

The polls and betting suggest the choice is between a Conservative led majority government or a Corbyn Labour led minority government. There is a large divide between what Labour is offering and what the Conservatives propose.

Labour’s approach is  based on  large increases in taxes and borrowing, to finance a large expansion of the state. In particular they want to nationalise large swathes of the utility sector with discounted  compensation to existing owners, and wish to take 10% stakes in quoted companies.

The Conservative approach is likely to be based on the controlled increases in public spending on heath, education and the police they have announced, with some tax cuts to come. I would like to see the 1% of GDP stimulus from this combination that I have been arguing for.

We know from past experience at home and present experience abroad that the Labour high tax high spend high borrowing strategy will miscarry. Taxing the successful, hard working and prudent more will send some of them abroad and others will be less motivated to grow their businesses and create more jobs. Excessive borrowing by the state can crowd out credit for business and for individuals to buy assets for themselves. The Labour leadership have admired some latin American countries like Venezuela in the past for their generous expansion of welfare and state spending, only to see the misery economic collapse creates. Well intentioned socialism often ends up creating shortages in the shops,  a balance of payments and overseas borrowing crisis, and more poverty as businesses pull out and jobs are destroyed.

Conservative and Coalition economic policy since 2010 has stabilised a badly damaged economy and has created conditions for many more jobs including full time and better paid jobs to  be created. Inflation has stayed under good control, productivity has been disappointing and real wage growth like much of the rest of the advanced world weak. Banks are now stronger and debts under better control.

The right things to do  now are to pursue policies that can help lift productivity and therefore real wages at a faster pace, to ease conditions sensibly without alarming international investors.

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  1. Stred
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    SJR. You are in the wrong party. Boris and his Libdum supporters and partners are now against fracking, preferring to buy gas from the ME, Russia and USA. They prefer to send £39,000 million to the EU and print money instead in order to pay for the NHS to pay for sex changes, while denying treatment for regular ailments. They are as mad as the Greens.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      I 100% agree, and have you heard the latest – ”citizzens climate assenbly” they’re gone mad…..just give in to every lobby group……apart from the 17.4m

      • York
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:52 am | Permalink

        Oh yes, 30,000 letters to be sent out authorised by ‘cross-party MPs’.
        So long as the MPs pay the postal charges, admin and any travel expenses out of their salaries then there should not be a problem .We should be tolerant

        • Hope
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

          04/12/2017 Mayhab flew to Brussels to finalise the terms of her rotten servitude plan. It was leaked when she arrived and the DUP were furious stating it would not support It! Her trip was a waste of time. It was claimed Brussels asked what the f… is wrong with her? The election pact she formed with the DUP ought to have been in her mind, like Chequers she believed in ambush to prevent people reading the horrors of her servitude plan. Johnson us not learned from her.

      • hefner
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        I am pretty sure there will be no objection to you participating in one or the other of these citizen assemblies. And you know what, you might actually learn a few things talking to people outside your fish bowl. And if you are so convinced you are in the right, put your arguments forward, try to convince other people of the rightness of your views. That’s democracy in action, certainly better than pouring your bile here.

        • dixie
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

          That is not democracy in action. Democracy is every individual having an equal say and equal influence.

        • NickC
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

          Hefner, You mean put your arguments forward as you have done on here? And obviously failed. So have you learnt anything yet?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

          Perhaps some sort of voting system might work for deciding what the people want?
          Or is that a bit too much pandering to the lower orders for you hefner?

          • hefner
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:18 am | Permalink

            Edward2, not at all. In some other countries, citizen assemblies discussed various questions where the original views were quite apart from each other. Then proposals were made and the whole population were asked to vote in a referendum. Isn’t it how the abortion question was handled in the RoI? Do you think the British people would be unable to bring their different views and discuss them in such assemblies, instead of having the questions being handled down to them from on high?
            Do you really think that MPs are such great people, or that think tank people (especially when representatives of corporate interests of some sort) have all the solutions? I’m a bit disappointed by your lack of trust in your fellow citizens.

          • libertarian
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 7:56 pm | Permalink


            WHO picks the members of a citizens assembly ?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

            The crucial question is who chooses these new important people?
            Is it random?
            And more importantly who is the expert chairperson in charge of the chosen citizens?
            And what questions will that chair be asking?
            It all seems a bit dodgy to me.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      I think that most fracking sites are in the North..where Boris needs support.
      Fracking vigorously opposed by far left/anarchists ( tho there have been hushed up earthquakes Blackpool).
      The usual ancient game as exemplified by innocent old type print in a very old Islington YC mag.
      How to win votes from the competition.
      No thought for the good of the nation. Short termism in the relentless and damaging pursuit of ….WHAT?

      • Shirley
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

        I haven’t heard of any damage to property from the earthquakes, whereas plenty of houses were actually damaged by the blasting caused by opencast mining up here in the North. The Conservatives closed the coal mines and then allowed opencasting for coal which is far more environmentally destructive.

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

        Everhopeful, According to a paper published in”Marine and Petroleum Geology” in December 2015 (Wilson et al), there have been many anthropogenic earthquakes during 1970-2012, which were principally caused by coal mining. The peak was c300 earthquakes in 1980, reducing to c12 in 1999 (inc undetermined), as coal production declined. To 2015 there have been two earthquakes cause by “fracking”. So fracking (for gas) is much safer than coal mining.

    • Chris
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

      Agreed, completely mad. It seems that Cons have reverted to chasing floating voters, appeasing vocal lobby groups, and chasing the mythical centre ground. it was a disaster before, and it will be again. They have, in my view, completely lost it, and what is extraordinary to me is that they seem to want to lose i.e. have a minority government, so that they can push BRINO, or even rejoin the EU.

      I am greatly heartened that Sir John has made clear in his writing and contributions to Parliament that he does not think like them and that he has principles. A few good men could go a long way to rescuing our country from a very dubious future. Boris has been extraordinarily “disappointing” to put it mildly, and he and his Party will not get any support from me.

    • Edwardm
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink


  2. Nig l
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    At least the Labour Party are holding true to their current beliefs. The Tory party is a cynical approach to avoid being ‘nasty’ an all things to all people, capturing the centre.

    You say we have a choice. Worse or worst in my view.

    • Peter
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:03 am | Permalink

      Nationalising rail and water is a policy I would be happy to adopt. A joined up rail network is long overdue and overseas companies now rob us blind for water supply.

    • Gary Carpenter
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:52 am | Permalink

      I said on here some time ago I would not vote the the best of the worst and as things are now those in parliament offer me no option.

      It has become obvious I cannot trust Boris or the Conservative party however they can trust me when I say they ‘will not get my vote.’

      • BJC
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:07 am | Permalink

        The obvious consideration for both legacy parties is that having levered them off the green benches after 3 long and painful years, we’re now being presented with the same failures as candidates, expecting them to behave differently. Mr Johnson might declare he has a readymade “deal”, but few truly believe it’s a good deal and there’s no guarantee it would pass into law, anyway. When is Mr Johnson, et al, going to understand that for the good of the country the dynamics in the HOC must change and it’s within his gift to do it. In the meantime and as predicted, I see Mr Corbyn is already enjoying a bounce……….

  3. Lifelogic
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    As you say “The right things to do now are to pursue policies that can help lift productivity and therefore real wages at a faster pace”.

    So what have they done today banned fracking! Hopefully just until the day after the election!

    If you want the above we need a clean Brexit, a bonfire of red tape, easy hire and fire a much smaller state sector, far lower simpler taxes, freedom and choice in education and health care, no £50K+ Soft loans for worthless degrees, relax green crap building regulation, cheap on demand energy, relax planning …..

    Just heard the shadow housing minister on LBC talking complete drivel on zero carbon housing. Politics at Cambridge it seems, a shame he did not do engineering there and then he might have had a clue what he was talking about!

    • Hope
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      Do not forget big state intervention, sugar tax, hate crime to control what we eat and think! Mayhab wanted dementia tax from while pissing away 15.1 billion in overseas aid, £100 billion in HS2 for a single railway journey to save 30 minutes Traveling! Wind farms, Hinkley etc. how about the permanent EU give away when the EU gets to decide how much and for how long to leave its clutches! Or the acceptance of the 500 billion liability if the Euromgoes tits up. This is Johnson’s ” fantastic” deal! Military under EU control for operations, must not impede EU foreign policy or withdraw from Paris agreement and the like! What idiot would accept these terms to leave before any trade deal discussed! Mayhab and Johnson!

      Why is Sedwill still in Place? We read Huawei is likely to quietly get the green light in the near future!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

      Matthew Parris to quit the Conservative Party and vote LibDim. So why has it taken him 20+ years to realise he is not a Conservative? It was surely clear from almost everything he wrote in the papers over the years – even if some of it was amusing sometimes.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

        Why has it taken him twenty plus years to realise that the LDs are Conservatives?



    • Ed M
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink


      Also, every time you put down religion (as you do a few times), you undermine something of the meaning of Patriotism (and Conservatism) – at least in the context of what people used to believe in this country (people such as Queen Elizabeth I).

      Patriotism derives from traditional Christianity (from the theology of The Middle Ages, from the lives of Christians such as Joan of Arc and Queen Elizabeth I – Queen Elizabeth may not be a saint – or she may be, who knows – but she was certainly an avowed follower of the faith). When Queen Elizabeth I ruled England, she believed (as I do and many – if not most from her time) that she ruled in situ of The King of Kings. That her authority and blessings to rule came from The King of Kings.

      And she would have well known that not just her Monarchy, but everything important to do with the Country derived from Christianity / Christian tradition – Parliament, Judiciary, Oxford, Grammar Schools, Guilds, Magna Carta, Chivalry, The Arts, and so on.

      (And traditional Christians such as Edmund Burke are essential to the philosophy of Conservatism).

      So whenever you take a swipe at Christianity, you are in my view (according to Traditional Christian Doctrine – including that of C of E) also taking a swipe at your Country (unintentionally of course). And, anyway, if there is no God why does it matter so much what one thinks or believes? But if there God exists, then it’s not just a personal matter, but a PUBLIC matter (affecting Country + Patriotism).

      Lastly, don’t forget at time of Queen Elizabeth, the Queen and Country would have dealt harshly with people for undermining religion in the Country in public – not because of how these views affected the person at a personal level, but the NEGATIVE effect this can have on a Country and sense of PATRIOTISM. I am AGAINST the cruelty they often showed, back then, to people who they regarded as anarchists regarding religion (and how this affected the country and patriotism), but at the same time, people from the past would say I would be right to challenge you and others – not about your personal beliefs (that is personal) but how you make your beliefs public and how that affects the mindset of others and our country, including sense of PATRIOTISM.

      • dixie
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

        Are you saying that roman citzens were not patriotic? Patriatism does not derive from Christianity, it is concerned with defending your community and culture and Christianity does not have the monopoly on that.

        • Ed M
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:44 pm | Permalink


          Also, notice the difference between what one Roman Emperor believed to another.

          Compare that of say Caligula to Marcus Aurelius. Many Christians would argue that Marcus Aurelius’ philosophy of life and of Rome was more inspired by the Divine (and so more similar to Christianity) than say that of Caligula whose values are more depraved in nature – more akin to that of the Nazism than Christianity.

    • Ed M
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

      And I am now calling myself more of a Royalist than a Conservative as Conservatism now is too mixed now with modern secular beliefs whether it be introducing gay marriage or being SUBECTIVELY obsessed by socialism (although I think this obsession is decreasing) instead of OBJECTIVELY focusing on making the country great through 1. PATRIOTISM 2. WORK ETHIC 3. PUBLIC DUTY (as traditional Christians have achieved in the past, in the Middle Ages, under Queen Elizabeth I, at time of Edmund Burke, and so on). Lastly, although I will vote Conservative (because there is no Royalist Party), let’s not forget the importance of THE FAMILY in old fashioned Conservatism (with the modern, left-wing secular world focusing on the State – which is a HUGE problem, including gay marriage). And I accept, even the Monarchy isn’t perfect (Charles I) and so on, nevertheless, it’s the best we have (and Royalism involves far more than just the Monarchy – but embracing what is best about our traditions and culture over the centuries of its traditional Christian past).

      For God, Queen, Country + Family

      • Peter
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

        Some pretty big claims for what Royalty represents in there.

        How about the divine right of kings?

        It is possible to believe in tradition, the family, patriotism and Christianity without supporting the idea of a monarchy.

        • Ed M
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

          (In fact, I am completely UNORIGINAL! But sadly modern secular philosophies / views of the world have quashed to an important degree so many traditions and value of the past that made our country GREAT in the best, modest sense of the word – and HAPPY, FULFILLED, CHEERFUL!)

    • NickC
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic, I simply don’t get the Tory party. Boris will not get any Green, LibDem or Labour voter to switch because of his ban on fracking. All he has done is put off Tory inclined voters who know that fracking for gas is far far safer than coal mining (which Labour used to support!). Why do the Tories do things like this?

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 3:23 am | Permalink

        Why indeed? They foolishly think it will win them some votes and so simply do not care that it damages the economy and confidence hugely and make no scientific or economic sense.

      • Stred
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

        Boris is probably getting an earful of greencrap every night before bedtime.

        • Martin R
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

          Perhaps bedtime is conditional on delivering greencrap.

  4. Mark B
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Labour’s approach is based on large increases in taxes and borrowing, to finance a large expansion of the state.

    And of course HS2 and Hinkley Point, all Conservative Government initiatives, are low lost and on budget ?

    The choice is between Labour, and Labour-Lite. Both are high tax high spend. The only difference is the level to which they will go.

    A Conservative government will push through the Association Treaty which will limit any government’s actions, whether this be tax, spending or nationalisation, EU rules will prevent it. They will also make sure that the UK is not competitive so any chance of growing the economy will be stifled.

    The key question is governance. Do the main parties wish to govern and, if so, what are their views and the Association Treaty with the EU ?

    • Simeon
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

      Good morning.

      Pretty much spot on. This Association Treaty terminology is rather good. First time I’ve come across it. Seems appropriate.

      That our kind host put to one side the key issue of governance might speak volumes of his view of his party’s policy in this area 😉

      Of course, we know the answer to your rhetorical question. Happily, I believe there is good reason to think increasing numbers of voters are understanding the answer too.

      Finally, another poster made a really interesting point on polling; at times, and possibly quite often, the Brexit party are not given as an option by pollsters, so those polled who might lean that way would either insist on ‘Other’, or submit to one of the prescribed options. Perhaps this might in part explain the inaccuracy of so much recent polling around elections? (Though the polling for the EU elections was rather more accurate, perhaps because the Brexit party could hardly not be given as an option!)

      • Alastair McIntyre
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

        I forecast that the Tory party will not win an overall majority as Boris has lied to us about his No Deal promise and has instead come up with a very similar May withdrawal deal. What don’t they understand? Most of us want out… completely out and that means a No Deal. Because Brosi has decided this is not an option he’s not going to get a majority. I forecast that the Brexit party will do very well indeed and hold the balance of power.

        • Simeon
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

          I think a really strong showing for the Brexit party is vital to the health of your democracy so I hope you’re right. I think the best case scenario after this GE is for a hung Parliament that is unable to do anything on Brexit, meaning either another GE in which the Brexit party can perform even better having displaced the Tory party as a viable party of government, or another referendum in which the Brexit party can further enhance their profile at the expense of the dishonest and incompetent Tory party. I’d love to see a proper Brexit government as a result of the GE, but I can only see this happening if the Brexit party are the senior partner in a coalition. Were they simply to hold the balance of power and therefore attempt to enforce the scrapping of the WA, I could see the Tories prefering to cooperate with other parties to deliver the WA.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

          I cannot see his deal passing the six weeks of the election campaign without it being exposed for what it is by Farage – expensive handcuffs.

    • Simon Cohen
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:47 am | Permalink

      What is missed here is John’s self-contradictory expressions.

      First of all , John has, in the past, correctly pointed out that Government can, effectively cancel its own debt (as long as those debts are denominated in Sterling), he correctly makes it clear that QE did this in a round about way and thereby reduced the Debt/GDP ratio.

      Taxation is largely a about redistribution and controlling inflation as well as propagating desirable behavioural changes. it is now becoming more well known that, with a sovereign currency, taxation does NOT finance things. Worth reading beardsley Ruml on this ( where he makes it clear that Government using there own currency are not financially restrained by the level of tax take.

      At present we have a situation where aggregate demand is sustained by absurd levels of domestic debt which is good for the banking system’s accumulation of wealth but is a ball and chain on the general economy and a massive stability risk like the one that led to the GFC. In effect, the banking system is ‘renting out’ the currency to fill the gap between wage levels and production. It is inherently unsustainable and bad for communities, business, mental health and the environment.

      We need MASSIVE Government spending to get the private debt levels down. AT present billions could be pumped into the real economy with zero inflation risk. Once private debt is reduced then spending would have to be and/or taxation used to curb inflation but we are years away from that.

      Labour’s spending plans involve Zero risk of inflation. The housing plan would help stabilise the appalling 40 year housing bubble that is also a ball and chain on the economy which locks in inequality and wealth transference, another socially destabilising factor.

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

        Simon Cohen, What a load of socialist MMT cobblers. We have low CPI inflation because the Chinese have injected massive amounts of deflation into the global economy. That is the only factor which gives you cover for your theory that the government can print and spend with no consequences.

      • Original Richard
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

        How can Labour possibly have a plan for housing when they have no idea how many houses are required as a result of their unlimited immigration policy?

  5. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

    … and so for Brexit, the choice is between the Johnson plan which will keep us tied in to EU growth and stability pact numbers or Corbyn plan which will do the same. He can’t nationalise without borrowing huge and he can’t borrow huge without leaving the EU, and he can’t leave the EU under his deal/remain.
    So unless there’s a look in for BXP here, nothing will have changed except confidence which will diminish.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:35 am | Permalink

      Corbyn cannot go on a nationalisation spree as it is against EU rules. No rules against, usually foreign, State owned companies buying up previous privatised UK companies thought.


      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

        Mark B, That is a mistake made by both Remains and Leaves – the EU does not prohibit nationalisation. The EU curtails state aid and state monopolies – a quite different thing.

  6. mark leigh
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:04 am | Permalink

    Agreed. Sadly many will heed the siren calls of Corbyn, and others will be too young to remember the last time we tried this in the ‘70s.

    I fear very much we will be in for a period where we have to relearn the lessons of the past.

    The irony perhaps is that if we stay in the EU under Labour’s “renegotiate and confirmatory vote” Plan, EU fiscal rules will help avoid the worst excesses.

    • Simon Cohen
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:50 am | Permalink

      The 70’s are an oft used but BAD comparison. The situation was quite different then with the massive cost push inflation resulting from a quadrupling of oil prices.

      Also, up to about 1976, wages kept pace with inflation so despite inflation of 26% housing was still affordable which makes a vast difference. never use statistics or information in isolation. macroeconomics is about a whole nexus of things.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

        Sadly for you Simon economics keeps on working.
        If you add many billions into a static economy you dilute the value and confidence in that economy and its currency.
        Many previous examples prove inflation is the result.
        Magic money tree once again.
        If it worked we could just print and create money and we would all be millionaires.

    • NickC
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

      Mark, I can see another hung Parliament, probably with a Corbyn minority coalition government. That means second referendums all round from the same politicians who think that the electorate should not be trusted with a referendum. And all because the Tory party will not stand up for what is right. They will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory – again.

  7. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    I received an email yesterday in which Nigel Farage stated: “If Boris goes for a Free Trade Agreement with the EU, we will back it.
    A simple FTA should be agreed by July 1st, 2020. That must mean no new EU Treaty. No new negotiations on the impossible basis of Msr Barnier’s Withdrawal Agreement and Political Declaration. No signing us up to any political linkage to the EU or the authority of EU courts.”
    Judging from your own recent posts on this site, I expect you would support this?

    • tim
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      Brian Tomkinson- Yes I received the same post from Nigel Farage, he looks like the new Prime Minister, he is the only way we will get Brexit.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

      I certainly would.

  8. David
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

    Cheap reliable energy is necessary. Cut the green car and get fracking, Boris’ policy shift is extremely disappointing.

    • Simeon
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      Only disappointing if you didn’t expect it. BJ’s green credentials are actually very well established.

      • Simon Cohen
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

        Johnson’s record on supporting Green initiatives is appalling!

        From ‘They Work for You’-

        Almost always voted against measures to prevent climate change
        1 vote for, 7 votes against, 6 absences, between 2004–2019

        • NickC
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

          Simon Cohen, Oh yes? And how are you going to “prevent climate change”?

        • Simeon
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

          Given that mainstream politics is fully signed up to the greening agenda, and given that BJ is very much in the mainstream of politics, he is green. He might not satisfy Extinction Rebellion, but then I suspect the Green party might themselves struggle to do so.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

        Except what the green dopes propose is not “green” nor does it even do anything significant about C02 emissions. It is a religion for people who do not understand science, energy, climates or engineering. I am not convinced this green crap even wins votes.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

          Votes for the Conservatives that is!

        • Simeon
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

          What’s fascinating is that the green lobby is comprised of, essentially, two main groups; those businesses that profit richly from government subsidies, and those who recognise that green can be a vehicle to bring down capitalism. All enabled by a science that lacks rigour, and whose findings are open to interpretation. It would be hilarious were it not so tragic.

      • Chris
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

        I understand that Carrie Symonds is very pro Green so that won’t make things easy. Of course, Boris has to be impartial.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 3:34 am | Permalink

          Art history and theatre studies at Warwick is hardly very encouraging. The more full of green crap people are the less understanding of science, climate, chaotic systems, energy engineering and the laws of physics they seem to have. The luvvies and Emma Thompson types are all taking in by it, as they fly around first class of course.

          The Tories say they are stopping fracking until “the science changes”. Why do they really think the laws of nature, science and physics will change them?

    • NoToFracking
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

      Being faced with a fracking site just 3 miles down the road tends to focus the mind.

      Great – a ban on the earthquakes that fracking inevitably brings.

      Those not affected will always complain about a fracking ban.

      Too right.

      Good policy decision Boris!

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

        Fracking for natural gas is far safer than coal mining, both in terms of the environment (including lower incidences of earthquakes), and the cost to human life. I would be quite happy to have fracking 3 miles away provided the business involved insured my house for any (unlikely) consequences.

      • old salt
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

        It ‘s not only the earthquakes it’s all the chemicals pumped down under pressure. Look up “frackfocus – chemical use – what chemicals are used”. Who knows where they will eventually end up, not forgetting any mishaps along the way. Accidents can and do happen. This might be regarded as a last resort when other fossil fuels and other resources are nearing depletion.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

        Earthquakes….you mean tremors you can hardly even feel.

      • Anonymous
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

        I doubt your plastic patio chair even fell over.

        I have a nuclear power station a few miles away. You take it for the team.

      • Stred
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

        You had better ban lorries, trains and clog dancing too. They have about the same effect as a good fracture.

  9. Lifelogic
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Gillian Keegan MP on Any Questions last night, clearly not a Conservative or Brexit bone in her body. A Rory Steward supporter for the Conservative leadership! What sensible Conservative voter would vote for anyone like her? Daft as a brush too. 4 to one remainers as usual for the BBC and the leaver, Iain Dale, is a bit wet on it too.

    Traitors, collaborators, surrender bill, treachery are entirely appropriate words whatever the hysterical and daft Paula Sherriff think. We need a better deal post the elction once we have rid parliament of some of these people. Boris needs a Brexit Party accommodation do the sums.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      He needs a good majority with a Brexit Party Deal as the next lot of Tory MPs will still be stuffed full with Libdim remainers like May and Keegan who could hold the county and party hostage yet again!

    • Mark B
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:43 am | Permalink


      Taken from her Wiki Page.

      Keegan . . . did not become active in politics until 2014.

      . . . she was advised in her ambitions to become an MP by Justine Greening . . .

      In 2015 she became Director of Women2Win—an organisation founded by Theresa May . . .

      . . . was elected to the House of Commons in the General Election held on 8 June 2017.

      Nothing untoward for this ‘day and age.’

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 3:36 am | Permalink


    • NickC
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic, I have given up on Boris. The trust factor for the Tory party was rock bottom anyway due to past performance by Heath, Major, Cameron, May.

      The Boris WA may be a welcome modification of May’s, but still retains most of the bad points. Boris banning fracking is burying his head in a comfort blanket. The Tory party is heading for another 2017 disaster and doesn’t realise it. God only knows who they get in their focus groups but it ain’t Leaves.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 3:42 am | Permalink

        Indeed and even Thatcher closed very many Grammar Schools, buried us further in EU treaties, was PM when Major joined the ERM, fell hook line and sinker for C02 climate alarmism, failed to cut taxes and the size of government sufficiently, failed to address the dire NHS state monopoly, went for the politically idiotic poll tax and made John Major (who failed his maths O level) Chancellor – and then let him become a appalling PM who buried the party for 3+ terms.

  10. Dame Rita Webb QC
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    How have you stabilised the economy when you are still deficit spending, despite promising to stop doing so by 2015, and we are still on near ZIRP for more than ten years? You could have a bigger majority than you are expecting, if you had not blocked Labour’s plan to extend the franchise to include EU nationals. After all they have been one of the main beneficiaries of all those new jobs that have been created, topped up with generous non contributory welfare benefits too.

  11. Everhopeful
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:11 am | Permalink

    Boris is gambling with all of our lives.
    He only rose in the polls because people believed he intended to deliver a proper Brexit.
    Apparently he is even dropping fracking to gather votes.
    Why not just do the things everyone wants ( give us back our freedoms and country).
    AND deliver a real Brexit?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      How can you claim that “everyone” wants your peculiar and extreme dislocation from the European Union, when only twenty-six percent of the country’s sixty-seven million people voted for many things, including moderation?

      What do you think the hundreds of thousands demonstrating in London were doing?

      Where are those demanding what you want? There are almost none, are there?

      • Edward2
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:26 am | Permalink

        Every time you quote a percentage to do with the EU referendum the percentage fir the leave vote goes down.
        Just shows what you can do by messing around with statistics.

        At least you are in one majority Martin.
        67.6% of all statistics are made up.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

          Do the simple sum.

          Seventeen point four, divided by sixty-seven, times one hundred.

          It’s just under twenty-six.

          That’s the percentage of the UK population who voted Leave, and plenty voted for a deal, for EEA, Norway, Switzerland etc.

          That ain’t “everyone”, sunbeam.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:47 am | Permalink

            So now do the same sum for those who voted remain and you will find it is a lower percentage than 26.
            That’s how voting works.

          • NickC
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:44 am | Permalink

            Martin, Nonsense. People could not have voted Leave for a part Leave as you claim because it was not on offer.

            In those circumstances they would have voted for Cameron’s re-negotiated Remain in the hope that further re-negotiations could alleviate some of the nastier features of your EU empire.

            The fact remains that the electorate voted by a considerable majority for the complete separation of the UK from the EU – because that was the only Leave option provided.

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

        Martin, How can you claim support for your peculiar and extreme attachment to the EU, when only 24% of the country’s sixty-seven million people voted for many things, including moderation? Out of all the many Remains I talked to during the Referendum only one actually liked the EU as totally as you do.

        Everyone knew what Leave was before 23 June 2016 – both campaigns, all the leading politicians and the electorate as well. Despite warnings from you Remains that Leave meant total separation from the EU empire, we still voted by a majority of 52:48 to Leave. We do not need to be ruled by your EU to trade with, and be friends of, Italy, Poland, Denmark, etc.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

          I’m addressing a silly comment and explaining why it is silly.

          You want to discuss something else of your own invention.

          • NickC
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

            Martin, No, I’m addressing your silly comment.

      • L Jones
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

        Certainly not on Facebook, Martin.
        Try looking elsewhere for your ‘information’.

      • Mary McDougall
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

        We already won

      • Everhopeful
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

        I dare say they are at work!

      • acorn
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

        Be fair Martin, 13 million-plus are currently too young to vote. 47 million have registered to vote and 6 million don’t give a toss and/or don’t want the authorities to know they exist.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

          They’re still people. Like Remain voters and moderate reasonable Leave ones.

          So “everyone” does not want the same nonsense as the commenter claimed.

          • NickC
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:46 am | Permalink

            Martin, So actual real Leave voters are not people?? Right . . . . .

    • Mike Stallard
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      Not true.
      If we just sever all links with Europe, there is going to be chaos. The EU knows this. Our business people know this (are you in business yourself?)
      World trade depends on JIT and that will be completely impossible once the barriers go up because it will cause what everyone is frightened of – delay. Car parts will not arrive from Europe. Food from Spain (the vast greenhouses in Valencia) and Holland (flowers?) will rot in the lorry and the containers. Our own Scampi industry, and with it a lot of employment in restive Scotland will simply cease.
      Lots of “little” things hurt a very large amount of voters.
      Fixing this (unless we stay in the EEA like Norway) is going to take years and years (Canada took 9). So the deal is a very good start.

      • Mark B
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:06 am | Permalink

        A deal is only worth it if things are dealt fairly. I cannot see it fair that EU officials are granted immunity for prosecution in UK courts ? Or that we are not allowed to criticise the EU once out – EVER !!!What has any of
        that go to do with trade ?

      • libertarian
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

        Mike Stallard

        I’m a very successful business man trading both within Europe and around the world

        Your post is ignorant nonsenses

        Just In Time has NOTHING to do with the EU, single markets or Customs Unions… nothing . The fact that you completely fail to understand what JUST in TIME means in reality is a sad indictment of the level of business ignorance in this country

        63% of business owners voted for Brexit 92% of businesses do no business with the EU at all

        • glen cullen
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

          I agree JIT is just a management and logistic tool, (and a way of OEMs to reduce warehouse costs (costs passed down the supply chain)

          Has nothing to do with the EU (example – toyota in derby import 90% + parts from japan)

      • British Spy
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

        When this country is really in trouble you will need me.But I shall not help you.You’ll just have to follow me and do as I do.
        Without stealing or having a home or money I can survive in this country with no income. I would prefer to have a few quid in my pocket for the first week until I got myself organised and my alsation. We would do well, increasingly. You people don’t know how. Pathetic. The British have lost their backbones and float about in life like jelly fish wherever the flow and tide takes them, moaning.

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

        Mike Stallard, “Completely impossible”?? If what you claim about our trade with the EU were true, we would already be in trouble with our trade with the rest of the world. We are not. So that means your EU claims are false.

      • Shirley
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

        JIT isn’t exclusive to the EU! I thought you should be informed of this well known fact.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      Exactly and people want cheap, on demand energy not absurd and ineffective expensive green crap con tricks.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:18 am | Permalink

        Boris does not seem to understand just how many extra Brexit seats can be won with a sensible alliance. He does not seem to understand the Conservatives came 5th on 9% and TBP came 1st and 30%. Perhaps he is not good at sums? The Boris deal is not Brexit.

        • percy openshaw
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

          But you don’t understand how many seats will be lost by that same alliance. Don’t discount the moderate Remainer Tory – not your diehards like Sir Oliver or Mr Stewart – but easy going, southern suburban Conservatives. Although I voted leave, I live among such people and they don’t care for Mr Farage. Association with him risks losing their support. Please think on this.

          • dixie
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

            “they don’t care for Mr Farage” yet you claim they are happy with the lying, deceitful, anti-democratic bunch in Westminster.

            Strange set of values. Or perhaps you are peddling remainist claptrap.

        • Chris
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

          I am beginning to think, LL, that Boris perhaps does not want a convincing majority. A small one or hung Parliament may give him justification for pursuing his BRINO. I believe he does not actually want to honour true Brexit. Certainly his actions and words so far do not fill me with any confidence. I do not trust the man.

        • NickC
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

          Lifelogic, I’m not even sure that the Tory party will understand your excellent points even if it fails (again). Whilst individual Tory politicians can be extraordinarily good, the Tory party itself is simply unwilling to listen, and takes its voters for granted.

  12. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    You suggest that a voting decision is like a shopping one. There are different products on offer, and you decide which you want to buy.

    For many people it is not. It is how they tell the world of politics something about themselves and what they think of various groups of politicians. They hope to change what will be on offer long term too.

    Very few people’s decisions are likely to be informed by an article like this even if they trusted every word, therefore.

    • acorn
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:22 am | Permalink

      JR’s post today is just neoliberal nonsense; it will work perfectly well on the uninitiated English voters particularly. As my late father frequently said, the British always get the government they deserve and nothing better. Alas, it will be a waste of time rebutting anything (mostly everything) posted on this site for the next five weeks.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:27 am | Permalink

        So stop posting your stuff and give us a rest acorn.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

          I would really like you to apply the same rule to the stuff you are posting as you are proposing to acorn

          thank you

          • Edward2
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

            No need to say thank you bill.
            I would like the same rule to apply to your posts too.
            At least we are all agreed on one thing.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:03 pm | Permalink


        translation of acorns post

        “im a socialist, socialism has never ever worked anywhere, but it sounds good. Whilst there is an election on and people destroy Corbyns manifesto as being ignorant nonsense acorn will not be commenting because he has no rational argument against the actual facts. acorn doesn’t like facts, he likes to make up posts hoping he doesn’t get caught out”

        • bill brown
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 1:15 pm | Permalink


          It is like your personal attacks on people writing on the log without knowing them. That should stop

      • percy openshaw
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

        Neo-liberal is just Marxist jargon for “freedom loving”.

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

        Acorn, Well, you’ve not managed to rebut anything in the last couple of years either. Perhaps you’re not as good as you think you are?

        • bill brown
          Posted November 4, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink


          I could raise the same question to you

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      Not alas like a shopping decision as you do not pay directly. Many are voting for more benefits and public services knowing that others will pay for them and not themselves. That is the Corbyn agenda a bent Father Christmas, magic money tree con trick, agenda.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

        Or they vote for green virtue signalling lunacy but do not realise they are doubling their energy and transport bills.

    • NickC
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

      Martin, Not like “shopping”, no; more like rational choices. As for the mythical “they” in “they tell the world of politics something about themselves”, since when have you been elected spokesman for “them”? What you’re really doing is speaking for yourself only. And why are your feelings worthy of attention when they are neither rational nor the truth by your own admission?

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

      Martin, you are quite right in saying that voting is far more important than a purchasing decision.

      For me, voting to leave the EU was so I can retain an influence on our laws, taxes and policies (foreign, military, immigration, economic, energy etc) through being able to elect and remove those who make these decisions.

  13. Brian Cowling
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    I, my family and most of our friends and acquaintances (who, as it happens, do not reside in your constituency) will not be voting: (1) for the Conservative Party because it is offering a solution (a so called “deal”) which does not amount to the Brexit we voted for(which was simply to “Leave the EU”); nor (2 & 3) the too-far Left Labour Party or the shamefully undemocratic Liberal Party.

    We will be ignoring project fear and all the polls (as we did when we voted to leave the EU) and voting for the party we believe ought be given the chance to leave the EU with a clean break.

    Our main regret is that you are not in that party but we hope that you, personally, are solidly re-elected.

    • Mike Stallard
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      Be careful what you wish for.
      I am a strong supporter of Nigel Farage. He is a giant.
      But, let us face it, Boris Johnson offers a way through Brexit which will allow us to negotiate our way into a friendly relationship with the EU, (which will still be there after the election), while Nigel Farage wants us simply to cut all ties and go with the USA.
      I think, having listened to President Trump, that Boris can get both USA and the European Union onside.

      • Mark B
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:10 am | Permalink

        . . . negotiate our way into a friendly relationship with the EU

        The EU will have the whip hand in any future negotiations, or have you not been paying attention. And the negotiations so far have been far from ‘friendly’ as you describe. Carving up the UK (Ulster) is not an act of a friend.

      • Denis Cooper
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:33 am | Permalink

        The EU will still be there, and so will our 2016 vote to leave it.

      • Brian Cowling
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:42 am | Permalink

        I don’t think we (me and those I speak for – see above) should be careful what we wish for. When asked, we should say what it is we want so that the votes can be counted.

        It seems to me that if someone voted in the 2016 referendum they did so on the basis that they agreed to accept the result (not wishing but expecting the result to be carried out). Indeed, it was clearly stated (as a threat as it happened) that the result would be implemented.

        17,410,742 (51.89%) voted to leave the EU. 161,141,241 (48.11%) voted to remain. There were 0.08% invalid votes.

        In my book that means at least 33,557,983 stated or agreed to leave the EU. I am disgusted that we are still in the EU. I am angry.

        I was a fan of Boris Johnson. He has failed to live up to his promises. He should go along with a lot of others – so actually, I do have a wish.

      • margaret howard
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

        Mike Stallard

        “I am a strong supporter of Nigel Farage. He is a giant.”

        Woe unto us if he is regarded as a giant in this country today.

        Otherwise the following saying will prove to be true:

        “In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.”

        ― Desiderius Erasmus

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

        Mike Stallard, Why do you think Boris can negotiate a better deal with the EU in 6 or 12 months time? If not now, why then? And since when has the EU ever been “friendly” with the UK?

      • Mary McDougall
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

        Boris is a brilliant Chess player. Move one was to get Gove to show betrayal so Boris did not have to play the role that Teresa May played. Move two was to collect voters who felt betrayed by the Torys by being their hero. We all saw and encouraged Boris’ progress to Prime Minister. Three was to re-instate Gove to show a good forgiving character for the good of the country. Move four was the removal of the Whip of his rebels . We then herald the saving Treaty Boris has negotiated that no one wants and the opposition ruin it with more amending thus enabling the suggestion of an Election. It is NOW our move.

        • tim
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

          Mary McDougall- boris CHEEESY move is to Take NO DEAL of the table, he is REMAIN

    • Marra
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      I live in the Workington constituency and I find this opinion poll to be ridiculous. Its just not going to happen. I cannot see the inhabitants of the council estates suddenly becoming Boris fans when the local paper is constantly filled with articles about austerity. This week it’s about a head teacher from Maryport and child poverty. The establishment are terrified of Corbyn and/or are desperate to finally put an end to this BREXIT nuisance, hence a manufactured ‘truth’ about everybody else is backing Boris and so should you. Resistance is futile.

      Workington Voting Intention:

      CON: 45% (+3)
      LAB: 34% (-17)
      BXP: 13% (+13)
      LDM: 5% (-2)
      GRN: 2% (+2)

      Via @Survation, 30-31 Oct.
      Changes w/ GE2017.

      • Peter
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:09 am | Permalink

        You will therefore know more about the mood in Workington than any patronising opinion poll or survey that tries to pigeonhole your area into a convenient box.

        We had ‘Essex Man’ and ’ Mondeo Man’ in previous elections.

      • Chris
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

        Very helpful local perspective, Marra. Thank you.

      • Samsez
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:02 pm | Permalink

        My local paper is a Labour Party MP fan magazine.
        Local Newsagent pro Labour: “We don’t sell half the copies we did, customers complain it is full of politics.”

        It used to be an excellent regional and local paper.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:29 am | Permalink

      At last Brian Cowling. Someone who thinks the way I do. Why should I vote for the Conservatives, a party I have always voted for but now find I can’t because of the lies over Brexit. Boris’s deal is not leaving. It is going to keep us under the control of the EU and I didn’t vote for that. I am sick to death of the same 3 parties promising the earth and delivering nothing. Their manifestos are complete garbage. I am fed up of being told I will be letting in Labour. Well, if that’s the case I will have to live with it the same as everyone else in the UK. It’s about time we saw sense enough to vote for something completely different. Who knows – it could be a great move. We will never know all the time we vote for these 3 parties. Farage has always been honest about the EU and all it entails. If Boris is stupid enough not to do a deal with him and give us a clean break from the EU then he is more daft than he looks at times. Bring it on. It’s the Brexit Party for me.

      • Sharon Jagger
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:11 am | Permalink

        Brian Cowling and fedupsoutherner

        I agree with you both, and I am seeing more and more comments by people saying the same….there are some people who intend voting in a constituency with a safe Tory seat. My constituency has a “leave “ Tory MP, who voted three times for the May deal…

        I’ve met our Brexit Party prospective candidate and he has impressed me.
        So, like many others, I’m prepared to go with my principles and hope that all works to the best for the country.

      • Gary Carpenter
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:58 am | Permalink

        “It’s about time we saw sense enough to vote for something completely different.”

        Couldn’t agree more.

      • percy openshaw
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

        So are Martin Howe, Charles Moore and Aaron Banks – to name but three – lying, too? They – distinguished Brexiteers of many years’ standing – accept Boris’s deal; they accept its acknowledged imperfections and they accept that these were dictated by circumstance. Where is the lie? Tell us. If you cannot, then please refrain from making incendiary and inaccurate accusations. And vote Conservative – if you want Brexit at all.

        • Simeon
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

          I don’t know Aaron Banks’s beef, but Charles Moore is establishment and not sound. As for Howe, I read his view of the WA in the Torygraph. Reading between the lines, it was clear he was saying that it was a terrible deal. Implicit in his piece was that, with the right PM, it would be possible to get to a proper Brexit eventually. With the Torygraph line being that Boris is indeed the right PM, then on that basis going with this deal is a risk worth taking. But Howe’s explicit blessing of the deal and indeed of Boris said it all. Furthermore, our kind host has made his views very clear. So I’ll go with Redwood, Farage and a winking Howe over Banks, Moore and the rest of the Tory blue-bloods and fanboys, thank you very much.

          • Simeon
            Posted November 3, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

            Apologies, should read; Howe’s explicit blessing of the deal and indeed of Boris BEING CONSPICUOUS BY ITS ABSENCE says it all.

            Obviously, a view that the deal is awful and BJ a charlatan is not going to appear in the Telegraph.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 3:49 am | Permalink

          ‘dictated by circumstance’ post the election if we have a sensible pro leave majority the circumstances will have changed and the dire deal must be ditched!

        • Fedupsoutherner
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

          Dear Percy, please tell me how voting for WA2 is Brexit? Take all the time you want.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

        If Boris is stupid enough not to do a deal with him and give us a clean break from the EU then he is more daft than he looks – indeed. He needs to look at the numbers he still have many dire remoaners standing for election again – he need a proper leaver alliance & a good majority to ditch his rip off handcuff deal and leave properly.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

        “If Boris is stupid enough not to do a deal with him and give us a clean break from the EU then he is more daft than he looks” – indeed and his does look a bit daft. He needs to look at the numbers, he still has very many dire remoaners Lindens standing for election as Conservatives again – he need a proper leaver alliance & a good majority to ditch his rip off handcuff deal and leave properly.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:24 am | Permalink

          Libdems not “Lindens”

      • Chris
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

        Well said, Fus.

      • L Jones
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

        Perhaps you may get dozens of replies to this post, Fedup. Judging by most other comments today, you speak for many of us. You may never know, if our kind host doesn’t allow them all (probably not enough room anyway!) – but we’ll know that HE reads them.
        At least there is this honest and honourable politician in whom we can put our trust, and a very few others. We know who they are.

      • Carol W
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        No; there are many of us that feel that way.
        To be honest, if it wasn’t for Corbyn et al. I wouldn’t think twice about voting for an “alternative party”; every political party seems to need a period in the wilderness to give them a chance to rebalance.
        Surprisingly enough, it is my “other half” who was raised to believe that voting Tory was anathema, that is telling me that a vote for “the alternative party” would let Corbyn in and that would be a complete economic disaster.
        My “other half” has a first in maths and had a very responsible position as an Accountant; I asked him what he would do about the economy; sorry, Sir John. The answer was not for public consumption…nor was it positive.
        I tend to concur; the best thing that we can do will only be buying time., nevertheless, anything that leaves us liable to bail the EU/Eurozone out is more like committing suicide.

      • Mary McDougall
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

        And me. I swore that if we did not leave on the 31st then I would vote The Brexit Party. I was conservative voter or over 40 years so it hurts but is inevitable;e

  14. Shirley
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    All the main parties have consistently lied to the electorate and all of LibLabCon have large undemocratic elements within their parties.

    I don’t trust any of them, and with very good reason!

    • Timaction
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:26 am | Permalink

      Totally agree. The game is up for the lying conniving Boris and his chums. He died in his ditch!

      • Shirley
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

        If the news is accurate, Boris has taken ‘no deal’ off the table. So much for his fake promises. He’s as bad as May, but a little more articulate with his lies!

      • percy openshaw
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

        Do you really think that this sort of aggressive personal language is apt at this point? The PM did what he could in adverse circumstance. Parliament – unconstitutionally – stitched him up. You say “BRINO!”. I say TINA.

        • Simeon
          Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

          Utterly disingenous. BJ allowed himself to be constrained by Parliament so he could portray himself as some kind of heroic victim. To burnish his credentials, he then sought to portray himself as a populist demagogue to shore up support amongst the lumpen proles. Finally, against all odds (ha ha!), he conquered Europe (at their invitation, proving himself to be a master statesman, willing to compromise to the nation’s advantage, thus earning the respect of remainers willing to accept a soft Brexit) and secured a ‘great’, ‘fantastic’ deal. Truly the World Spirit is strong in this one!

          And you’ve fallen for this nonsense. Or, worse, are a CCHQ type desperately trying to make the case for a morally and intellectually bankrupt party.

    • Peter
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      Then maybe take the Samson approach – vote to bring the temple crashing down around them.

      It’s one way to start the swamp-draining.

  15. MickN
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    I am praying that we are not going to hear a catchphrase like “strong and stable” parroted ad nauseum by your party.

    • Chris
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      In vain, I fear. Also don’t forget the over used and wrongly used One Nation Tory Party. That really angers me. They do not mean it and they just trot it out as they think it sounds good. I want unambiguous policies in the manifesto, right down to abolishing HS2.

  16. Ian terry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:26 am | Permalink

    With he opening skirmishes between the parties it is very easy not to stop, think, aim and fire, usually the opposite happens slow, fire, aim and think. This country has been inflicted by some of the worse decisions imaginable bought about by quick throw away lines and knee jerk decisions over the last decade, but more so over the last three and a half years. It appears our politicians have learnt nothing.

    Pride can cloud the thought process and surely it is better to explore fully every avenue and process on offer before making any decisions. Basic cause and effect analysis. I do hope that those that make all these perceived judgements if and when the results are not what they envisaged I do hope that they will have the balls to own up, be responsible, accountable and resign. Something in previous parliaments has been sorely lacking

  17. Ian Wragg
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Conservative and coalition economic policy has been dictated by the EU. It will continue that way for forseeable if there is a Tory majority pushing for Boris BINO.
    If Farage stands in all seats it could deny you a majority which might not be a bad thing.
    I think it’s a very silly thing to spurn Farages offer.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

      Ian – – it could be a disastrous mistake.

  18. Kevin
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:38 am | Permalink

    You write of Conservative and Coalition economic policy since 2010, remarking that “Inflation has stayed under good control”.

    Can you please reconcile the above statement with the following, which you wrote in November 2015:
    “The advocates of QE are now able to claim that there has been no great general inflation so far as a result of their money printing…. There has been, however, a major inflation in the prices of assets, led by bonds but including London home prices. This brings with it social and financial consequences.”
    (Source: “Who is rich? The distorting problems caused by very high London home prices”, 29/11/2015)

  19. Derek Henry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:39 am | Permalink

    I love the overall plan tax cuts and increased government spending and making sure there are enough skills and real resources to absorb both. It makes perfect sense and does not break any of the national accounting rules. Will not cause inflation.

    On the BBC I did highlight a couple of myths above that do break the accounting rules.

    a) Venezuela pegged their currency and borrows in $’s a complete no no. Suffers from “Dutch bulb” disease. Oil is their main export and they get paid in $’s it was never going to work. So you can never compare them with the UK.

    Flexible exchange rate regime maximises the policy space for government to pursue domestic objectives. Once a nation adopts a currency peg of any description (fixed exchange rate, dollarisation, currency board, etc) it loses its full currency sovereignty and compromises domestic policy aspirations.

    b) I am very happy that you said government borrowing was monetary policy and not fiscal policy. As government finances do not operate like a household budget. Crowding out does not apply to our current monetary system.

    The current reality is that on the contrary, the expenditure of the borrowed funds (unlike the expenditure of tax revenues) will generate added disposable income, enhance the demand for the products of private industry, and make private investment more profitable. As long as there are plenty of idle resources lying around, and monetary authorities behave sensibly, (instead of trying to counter the supposedly inflationary effect of the deficit) those with a prospect for profitable investment can be enabled to obtain financing. Under these circumstances, each additional £ of deficit will in the medium long run induce two or more additional £’s of private investment. The capital created is an increment to someone’s wealth and ipso facto someone’s saving. “Supply creates its own demand” fails as soon as some of the income generated by the supply is saved, but investment does create its own saving, and more. Any crowding out that may occur is the result, not of underlying economic reality, but of inappropriate restrictive reactions on the part of a monetary authority in response to the deficit.

    c) Currency-issuing state has no financial constraints just an inflation constraint, critics argue that the capacity of a nation to increase domestic employment using fiscal deficits is limited by the external sector.

    And they argue that these constraints have become more severe in this age of multinational firms with their global supply chains and the increased volume of global capital flows.

    These critics also, often, erroneously believe that fixed exchange rate regimes provide financial stability and insulate nations from imported inflation, while flexible exchange rates undermine stability. History doesn’t support this preference for fixed exchange rates.

    Taken together these concerns are bundled under a heading – balance of payments constraints.

    While there is no such thing as a balance of payments growth constraint in a flexible exchange rate economy in the same way as exists in a fixed exchange rate world, the external balance still has implications for foreign reserve holdings via the level of external debt held by the public and private sector.

    Critics argue that a nation with flexible exchange rates can ‘import’ inflation from other nations, which negate real income gains made through domestic expansionary policy. In other words, this is a revised version of the ‘balance of payments constraint’ on growth.

    Through its impact on import prices, the exchange rate does influence the real value of the nominal incomes that are produced. The purchasing value of nominal incomes is the volume of real goods and services that an income recipient can purchase with those incomes. That depends on the prices of goods and services, some of which will be more influenced by movements in exchange rates than others.

    Non-tradable goods and services will be much less influenced by exchange rate movements than direct imports. In many cases, these goods and services will have negligible exposure to exchange rate movements. The provision of many services, for example, will have little variability to exchange rate fluctuations.

    The extent to which those movements in domestic prices are influenced by shifts in import prices arising from exchange rate movements depends on the degree of ‘pass through’ and the importance of imported goods and services to the overall basket that determines the workers’ material living standards.

    The research evidence is clear – ‘pass through’ estimates are highly variable and depend on many factors including how much spare capacity there is in the economy, the degree of import competition, etc.

    The second impact depends on how changes in overall consumer price inflation respond to changes in import prices. So ‘pass through’ might be high and rapid but the second impact low and drawn out, making the overall impact inconsequential.

    So if imports are a relatively small proportion of goods and services included in the inflation measure, even if the ‘pass through’ is high, the overall impact on the domestic inflation rate will be small.

    There is also the question of time lags – how long these separate effects take to impact. In many studies, the sum of the two impacts can take years to manifest.

    It is also very difficult to come up with unambiguous estimates of these separate effects.

    I know Roger Bootle understands this he has written about it many times.

    The coherent empirical research on this question suggests that ‘pass through’ effects are weak in most nations for which coherent empirical research has been conducted

    • Edward2
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

      Gosh Derek it seems you could do with your own blog site.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

      derek – – -I ain’t going to read such a long post.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

      Derek, last year didn’t you say the dollar would collapse by July this year and it wouldn’t be an international settlement currency anymore?

      • Derek Henry
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:40 am | Permalink

        No I said gold would go to $1500 per ounce because the FED was hiking rates.

        Everyone laughed at me and I got a lot of personal abuse.

        It nearly hit $1600 in September.

        Because rate hikes cause inflation as the increase cost of borrowing gets passed onto the consumer.

      • Derek Henry
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

        I bought it right after the first hike for $1070.

      • Derek Henry
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

        The $ is weaker today after 8 hikes.

  20. A.Sedgwick
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:42 am | Permalink

    Brexit Party will receive 20% of the vote.

    The Referendum and EP elections were big ticket issues and people will vote for BP for the same reason – it matters, it is not the usual waffle, cant and hypocrisy.

    Nigel Farage with Mrs Thatcher are the two outstanding post 1945 politicians and his effect is about to felt again.

    The behaviour of our Parliament and the EU politburo has confirmed how rotten our politics have become. If the alchemy of May2 is accepted by all standing Conservative Party candidates it will be confirm how pointless our system is.

    • percy openshaw
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

      The polls disagree. The Conservatives are beyond forty per cent. Farage is down to single figures. Good.

    • Nig l
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

      Agree re Farage and the responses from his ‘pigmy’ opponents, predictable.

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:54 pm | Permalink


      “Nigel Farage with Mrs Thatcher are the two outstanding post 1945 politicians and his effect is about to felt again.”

      Mrs Thatcher would be turning in her grave to be compared to that buffoon.

      Whatever I thought of her policies at least she had the courage of her conviction.

      Farage is rumoured to have his German passport ready in case it all goes haywire and he will have to make a quick exit.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        Only rumoured Margaret. What got those facts off Facebook again? Farage has dedicated his life to the Brexit cause. What have you done?

      • NickC
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

        Margaret H, Don’t base your beliefs on rumours.

    • Chris
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

      Good comment, AS.

  21. BJC
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    All true, Sir John, but the message is completely lost amongst all the Brexit arguments. The Tories are empowering Corbyn who’s out there selling everything BUT Brexit. Please, find an accord with the “enemy”.

  22. Julian Flood
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Growth and stability pact. That’s zero growth and the stability of the grave.


  23. Fred H
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Voting on a manifesto ? Voting on a Party leader? Voting on recent track record? Not likely.
    I will be voting for an MP who openly says what he believes and can be trusted. The opponent is a disgrace – suddenly changing policies( or was that just the Remain defeat?) and then staining character by going against a former colleague!
    He may not be listened to in the highest places – but Sir John gets my vote.

  24. tim
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    Boris shows his true colours. By not creating an electoral pact with the Brexit party, the conservatives give every indication of trying to throw the election and put a Remain party into government, thus solving the Conservative dilemma of a Brexit they really do not want to deliver.

    • Shirley
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

      They are my thoughts too, tim.

    • old salt
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

      And which nearly happened at the last GE with that abysmal, some say, deliberate manifesto.

  25. Brigham
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    I have thought of a solution to Brexit. A pact between the Tories and the Brexit party. This would probably mean a leave majority. Get Brexit over with and sort out trade etc. for a couple of years. After an agreed time another general election unfettered by the EU.
    Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson should agree to this provided the treaty is forgotten.

  26. Mike Stallard
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    Way back in early 70s, I was an A level teacher, still wet behind the ears, at one of the new Comprehensive Schools. My Head of Department was a strong Labour man who was thrilled at the end of the British Empire.
    We were both proudly ascetic – (aka paid very little) – and I was teaching evening classes to pay for my family. I asked him why he didn’t do it too.
    He looked at me surprised. “Don’t you realise that if I am paid a pound, I lose 19/6 in tax?”
    (Translation: if I am paid £100, I lose £95 in tax).
    So much for Labour government.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:25 am | Permalink

      So a committed Socialist was using an early tax avoidance scheme ? How very un proletariat.

    • hefner
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:33 am | Permalink

      A beautiful story, but not quite right: The top rate for British taxpayers reached 83pc. The wealthiest among them (the Beatles for example) paid a 15pc super-tax on top pushing taxes as high as 98pc. But I very much doubt that a Head of Department or even a head teacher would have had a salary taxed as much. Ah, years passing cloud memories.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

        Mike S

        Hefner is correct oh and by the way decimalisation happened in 1971

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      Mike – you weren’t teaching maths……£19/6 is 39 :40ths – hence tax would be £97.50d.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

        oops ,…s/be 19shillings and 9d — today £97. 50p.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

      Well with Hammond and Osborne you can easily pay much more than 100% of your earning in tax. The pension pot/contribution mugging taxes, the double taxation of landlord’s interest and stamp duty at up to 15% can all give tax levels at well over 100% of total income.

      As of course can taking 40% of your assets off your children/benificiaries (above £325K) on death! They are even worse than “ ‘till the pips squeak” Dennis Healey! It was 98% the top rate I think!

  27. Julie Williams
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:09 am | Permalink

    Voters also know from past experience that what politicians say and what that do are too vastly different things…Tories promise to be tough on crime but do nothing, Labour promise to reduce student debt but can’t afford it.
    Just the same old blackmail and bribery coming out again:vote Tory, destroy the NHS, vote Labour, get Marxism, vote Tory for tax cuts, vote Labour for benefits .
    Glib and boring.
    The new blackmail is to vote Tory to get any form of Brexit, even if it is Boris’s rushed con-job, no-deal off the table?

    • steve
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

      Julie Williams

      “Voters also know from past experience that what politicians say and what that do are too vastly different things.”

      But one thing they always do is drop voters flat on their faces.

  28. agricola
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Yes the Conservatives are broadly on the right lines. Whatever your political aims, a strong economy is an absolute necessity. I do not see the various forms of socialism be it labour, lib/dem, or green capable of producing the requisite economic success. I suspect that the brexit party are nearer to the torys on how to produce a strong economy, but in truth I don’t know.

    This is not to say there are not many wrongs that need dealing with. Payday loan companies, street sleeping and its many causes, mental health provision, terminal care, and social care for our aging population where necessary, higher education costs etc. To name but a few.

    However, paramount in this is our departure from the EU which in my view needs to be clean and swift with no WA2. There are better ways than another WA as our host and many others have pointed out. Let us achieve it in the most pragmatic way by creating the absolutely necessary parliamentary base. I have expressed my views on how this can be achieved as have many others. It is make up your mind time because the opportunity is on the table.

  29. Dave Andrews
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Politics is paralysed all the time Brexit remains unresolved. Boris’s WA doesn’t resolve it, rather it parks the UK in an indefinite “implementation” zone, where the UK will effectively remain in the EU whilst having no say in its operations.
    I’m not saying we should aim at no deal, just that the UK should leave with sovereign rights immediately.

  30. Stred
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    Mrs Leadsdum thinks Trump is wrong and that under the Boris /May deal we can have a trade deal with the USA. Is she competent enough to be Business minister,?

    • Chris
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

      Stred, I wonder how Ms Leadsom can appear so ignorant, foolish and self opinionated. President Trump knows exactly what terms he can trade on, and the BRINO deal does not satisfy the terms. He is a straight talker, unlike so many of our UK Tory politicians in government. For goodness sake, he is a hands on President in whom the Art of the Deal is engrained. It just beggars belief that Leadsom even thinks she has the business acumen, expertise and knowledge to contradict him on his own trade policies.

      • Hope
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

        Plus Johnson could only trade on EU terms- level playing field not mor competi be than the EU, why would the US want that!

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 3:57 am | Permalink

        Indeed and even if she were right (she is not) it would not the right thing to say so anyway.

  31. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Banning fracking is the last straw for me. What idiots we have in power. We may as well vote in the Green party. At least they really believe the crap they spout. Unlike the Conservatives who are doing it all for votes. Pathetic. I am really angry that Boris has turned out to be as useless as May. I can’t believe I nearly thought he was great. I now see him for what he really is. A vote seeker under any cost.

    • MB
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      Perhaps the country at large might accept fracking more readily, if it was first tried out in London.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        any gas under there?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      Exactly and I am not convinced it even wins them votes. Most sensible people want cheap, on demand, reliable energy and for people to be able to afford to heat their homes and be able compete in the world with their businesses.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

      Indeed “At least they really believe the crap they spout”, but do they? Can they really be so deluded and lacking in science? They do seem to fly round the World all the time and many buy smart houses by the beach!

      • hefner
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

        Who are “they”? Are you referring to one, two or even ten actors-“activists”. If it is the case you have a particular weak grasp on statistics if you think that a couple of inviduals are representative of a whole group. But that would not be the first time, despite your quasi-daily claims to science, you appear to be rather clueless on a lot of scientific questions, Mr 80-hour week.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 8:54 am | Permalink

          He was referring to the Green Party hefner.
          Try reading Fedupsoutherner’s original post before typing another of your rants.

        • libertarian
          Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink


          The Maldives government and the entire climate industry claim the the Maldives will be under water in the next few years. They have built 5 new airports

          You seem to not understand the word many , and if you think that only 10 people have beach front houses you are truly deluded .

          You have a weak grasp of reality, science, statistics and common sense …. ah youre a socialist, enough said

          • hefner
            Posted November 5, 2019 at 9:01 am | Permalink

            For sea-planes?

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

        Very true Life Logic

  32. Christine
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Banning fracking? Are you mad? We have talked before about the need to generate more energy and the Conservative Party not only parrots the carbon free nonsense and phasing out of diesel cars, but then piles in on more money for the NHS! What sort of manifesto is that! All mad as a box of frogs.
    I have made a further donation to the Brexit Party. Luckily in this constituency we have in you, Sir John, an excellent MP who has never voted for the WA or PA but were I to be voting elsewhere, it would be Brexit Party all the way.
    If Johnson and Cummings think erstwhile Labour voters will put a cross anywhere near the word Conservative, they are sorely mistaken. It’s so obvious to the man/woman in the street, so why can’t you guys see it?
    Form an alliance/agreement with Nigel or face either oblivion (we would never forgive the CP if Corbyn/McDonnell were to enter no 10/11) or such a slim majority that Parliament will once again be hamstrung. And what a grave mistake it was to restore the whip to those disloyal MPs.
    For the sake of the country please start doing something right (taking over the Electoral Commission would be a start – double voting registrations make a mockery of election results) and give us hope for the future.

    • Pragmatist
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:26 am | Permalink

      Fracking is coincidentally being cut back and ‘rigs’ actually scrapped as opposed to stored in parts of the US. We have over-capacity. Which is very nice, but capitalism cannot use it as a tonic. Capitalism is a state-of-the-art shortage killer. It has worked magnificently in oil and gas. Now, its organisational resources are switching to Green to create the shortages of energy so it may work again., and boast “Told you so Dummies!”

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      Exactly. Marc Francoir has clearly been sent out as an attack dog to get Farage. No one is fooled Marc, either you have not understood the dire Boris handcuff deal or you are lying. It is clearly not Brexit in any real sense.

      Far better can be attained once there is a good Brexit Majority and no surrender bill. Boris will not get a good majority if circa 10%+ vote Brexit.

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:18 pm | Permalink


      “Banning fracking? Are you mad?”

      So obviously you wouldn’t mind if they started fracking near you?

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

        Margaret. I wouldn’t mind one bit. All the hype about fracking is nonsense. We have been fracking is some areas of the Uk for years but nobody has noticed.

      • libertarian
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink


        We have used fracking for over 100 years, coal mining was mostly based on fracking

        Similar scare stories about nuclear exist, I live next to a nuclear power station, if they were fracking here too I wouldn’t have the slightest concern. By the way 2 years ago we had one of the UKs largest earthquakes here right by the power station .

        Do you try to believe at least one silly thing every day?

      • NickC
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:56 am | Permalink

        Margaret H, Yes I would be quite happy with fracking for gas to take place near my home. What’s the problem? It’s far safer than coal mining which was widespread in the UK – indeed it’s in very similar parts of the country. I would much prefer to be near a modern gas fracking site than an old coal mine.

    • Dominic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

      Hear, hear.

      I don’t blame John Redwood one iota. He cannot be held responsible for the sheer spinelessness of the Tory party hierarchy.

      I understand white, working people in the north. They will NEVER vote Tory simply because they have been brainwashed and indoctrinated by decades of class-war propaganda. To vote Tory is almost seen as an act of shame. That’s how damaged northern voters are. And of course they don’t realise they are signing their own death warrant. For people like my parents (hard-working, decent, moral, law abiding taxpayers) they don’t deserve to be exposed to vile Labour’s mass immigration strategy with its political and electoral objectives.

      Labour is the enemy of traditional Labour voters. It is this fundamental deceit that has still not been exposed. It is this irony that still remains hidden.

      Every time Lammy plays the race card against ERG MPs he is slandering my parents, my friends, my relatives and my dead grandparents

      Labour is the real racist party. They have embraced a form of racism that weaponises skin colour, ethnicity and the Tories will not stand up, expose it and pass laws against this most offensive criminal slander

      How is it that Corbyn and his grubby acolytes remain beyond demonisation consider their history and yet Farage is continually targeted for character assassination?

      it stinks how Labour extremists can say what the hell they like while everyone else is SILENCED. The Tories are too blame for capitulating to this form of race and gender politics. The Tories have almost pushed themselves into a corner. The stupidity of this defies belief

      May is partly responsible for promoting this identity politics in her desperate attempt to platform her virtue

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

      Christine – – a superb post !

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

      You will never forgive the Tory Party if Corbyn gets into number 10!!!!


      When May was pushing her deal lots on here said they would never vote Tory again. That the party was finished. But now they have to lose an election before you’ll stop voting for them. No wonder political parties take their voters for granted.

      All of you that voted for the Brexit Party in the European elections will now come back to the fold. It’s pathetic. No wonder nothing ever changes.

      • NickC
        Posted November 3, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

        Mike Wilson, That’s because Leave supporters are trying to find the most Leave oriented recipient for their vote, given that the Boris WA is better than the May WA, and taking into account the FPTP disadvantage that the Brexit party has.

        • Mike Wilson
          Posted November 5, 2019 at 12:17 am | Permalink

          If you think the Tory Party is Leave oriented, you really are delusional. 3.5 years since the referendum- we’ve had a Tory government – we have got nowhere near leaving.

  33. Sue W
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    The choice in this election is whether to properly leave the EU or not. As many of us already know, and more are soon to know, there is therefore only one way to vote.

  34. formula57
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    Or the choice might be either:

    – backing Mr. Johnson despite him only rolling in glitter May the quisling’s Surrender deal on the grounds that is preferable to Remaining for now,

    – backing the people’s Blue Boris as he has run rings around our enemies and will deliver, overtly and covertly, a truly liberating, honest Brexit, or

    – abstaining through lack of enthusiasm from not knowing what we are getting and to deny any encouragement to a political class that has betrayed us.

  35. Caterpillar
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Yes Labour, Conservatives and media between them are producing the narrative of one or the other. But the Conservatives will generate a never ending transition period, Barnier has already indicated it will not be quick. Labour will either be the same or at least being in the CU. Looking at those parties the choice is which would manage uncertainty better. The real choice is LDs or TBP – clean remain or clean leave.

  36. Rule Britannia
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    The polls before we even dissolve parliemant are not really anything to base voting decisions on.

    I’ll wait to hear what’s said and decide what I believe, but I am very conscious that Johnson allowed the Benn Act onto the statute books without a fight, has now engineered an election without Brexit being delivered and has a WA ready to go into the oven that is not what I want.

    He will be asking me to trust him and with that background and I’m afraid I don’t. If he says that he will leave on WTO terms then I might well vote Conservative but I am conscious that he is turning down a winning pact with Farage presumably because he plans to push through that awful WA since the only real reason to reject such an offer is that the Brexit Party want a WTO exit.

    To state that Farage is ‘not a fit and proper person’ is downright demeaning to someone who has given up a large part of his life to protect his country, something he didn’t really want to do, going up against professional politicians and doing it well.

    I got bored with voting based on what I fear, I’m just going to vote for what I actually want. The BXP are the only party I trust to deliver a WTO exit and that’s the best option left from the limited choices left to us by the incompetence of Conservative leaders and disingenuous socialists and ‘rebel’ Tory MPs.

    And now they want a majority for 5 more years. Hmmm.

  37. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    I will not vote for any WA. I would rather Remain and Leave cleanly later. Boris is a liar as he has proved, so we can’t believe a single word he says. There will be no Tory majority when people like me withhold our votes.

  38. Oggy
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    So Boris has refused Nigel Farage’s offer of an election pact, more fool him. Doesn’t he understand there are millions of Leave voters in Labour constituencies in the north of England that would never ever vote Tory but they will vote for the Brexit party.

    I and many people I know will not vote for the Tories because of Johnson’s reheated May treaty for Associate membership of the EU. I voted to leave EU treaties not to sign up to another. Boris has reneged on all of his promises he made on Brexit.

    Plus as others have said too many lib dums have infiltrated your party with agendas of stifling free speech through PC legislation, cow towing to various minority groups and ignoring the majority. The Conservatives need to return to their core values and stop being a Lib Dem lite party, otherwise it is not going to end well for them.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

      It is indeed a big mistake by Boris and the party, what is there to lose in the 200 seats that the Tories can never win? Perhaps he just want another coalition?

    • Chris
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

      An accurate assessment of the current situation, Oggy, and a message that Cons would be foolish to ignore.

  39. Peter
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    I am not sure what the rules are in here now.

    An earlier article stated :-
    ‘I will not be publishing contributor exhortations to vote for other parties or overtly partisan anti Conservative material during the election period.’

    Yet posters above sometimes seem to ignore this. I will just chip and see how it goes.

  40. Now
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:07 am | Permalink

    We got beaten fair and square. We certainly were not robbed. 32-12
    We got beaten by their Judicial system (Pistorious case) compared to our Supreme Court ( Boris case) 100-0

    All Third World South Africa needs to do now is have a referendum result and their Parliament honour it 100% and they will done the hat trick.

    Cry, our Beloved Country

  41. Yorkie
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    At the this, I feel the turnout will be at the lower end and compare with the 1918 General Election which was below 60% if you factor in we have easy-peasy postal voting now and TV sets urging and conning us on.

  42. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    I’m sorry but this is all about Brexit (still and amazingly).
    Any person who believes in Leave should vote Brexit Party and anyone who votes Remain should vote LibDem (much to my disgust). Conservative has not delivered Brexit.
    Boris Johnson has made a huge mistake in turning down Mr Farage’s alliance proposal.
    Yet you Sir make no mention of either LibDem or the Brexit Party.
    I am greatly surprised by this parallel universe approach to the forthcoming election.

  43. Caterpillar
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Yep banning fracking is a serious mistake.

    One earthquake that might be related at 2.9 but generally earthquakes less than with coalmining. So a lower emission option that could deliver cheap and secure energy for decades is banned, this appears well short of an optimum decision. Is there another policy for cheap competitive energy? Is there another policy for security? A potential wealth creating industry for the north of England banned. And an argument to wait for the science to improve – what is the motivation for this to occur when the aim in the UK is pretty much to ban all energy sources and to not use resources we have? Leave the energy in the ground and give the fish to the EU, winning stuff from the Conservatives.

  44. JoolsB
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Apparently Corbyn supporting students are bragging this morning that they have registered to vote twice, once in their home town and then again in their uni town. All done with ease in a couple of minutes. Meanwhile postal voting, rife with fraud, has gone up from 2% to 20% in the last fifteen years and your Government has done absolutely NOTHING to address this.

    Something only Nigel Farage has promised to address. The biased media yesterday didn’t show much of the Brexit Party’s election launch but from what I saw, I am now seriously considering voting for them. They want a clean Brexit, unlike Boris’s Brino and therefore will not hand over £39 billion as Boris will do plus they have pledged to drastically reduce foreign aid. Something a Tory Government should be doing, if only there was one on offer and not the current bunch of Liberal Lefties masquerading as Conservatives.

    Johnson stupidly and stubbornly refuses to form a pact with Farage. Big mistake. The only winners will be Corbyn propped up by the SNP with their disastrous policies which will in the main only be inflicted on England and no doubt 550 UK MPs squatting in English seats will do as they always do about this affront to democracy, i.e. diddly squat!

  45. BW
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    Sir John, I am surprised you still think this election is about domestic issues other than brexit. By taking no deal off the table I think the Boris cooked his goose and has split the leave vote. I have the choice of voting for Boris and a deal I do not want or Farage for a clean brexit. I cannot vote for the Lib Dem candidate as he betrayed Bracknell and cannot be trusted. So therefore it must be the Brexit party

  46. steve
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Boris has blown it. I actually don’t believe Boris wants to deliver Brexit. If he did, he’d have forged alliance with Farage instead of sneaking off to lick Varadkar’s boots.

    The sensible option now is to vote TBP and get out of the ungrateful EU immediately on
    pre – EEC sovereign rights.

  47. Gareth Warren
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    As a brexiteer I have the dilema of the conservative vs brexit party to deal with, with the additional problem of a very pro-EU conservative locally.

    The argument I hear and agree with is that the WA2 is not brexit because it keeps us under EU control and offers a potential blank cheque to Brussels for many years.

    This latter point may prove decisive to the election, labour are rightly criticized for wanting to spend a ~£192 billion putting many industries under the dead hand of nationalization. However how can conservatives criticise them when the losses in money demanded by the WA2 could be as great? Here we could expect to privatize the assets that had been nationalized so labours spending would not all be a loss. However all the money sent to the EU would be a loss.

  48. percy openshaw
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    I am delighted to see, Sir John, that you are implicitly accepting the Johnson deal with Brussels. There is no further mileage in Brexit controversy and many of us who desired more are content with less, for the sake of good government and the avoidance of left wing disaster.

    Reply I want us to leave offering a free trade deal. I have not changed my views.

  49. John S
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Boris has spurned Nigel Farage’s overtures. I think this will backfire. Let the Brexit Party fight in the Labour heartlands and leave us be in Tory target seats. Now, we are going to see the Tory vote split, therefore having the distinct possibility of still not getting Brexit done at all.

    • Why?
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

      Why isn’t Boris prepared to ally with the Brexit Party? He must know he will not get to be PM if he does not. The Brexit Party has only to nick a few hundred votes or less.
      It is fortunate Farage is willing to be in alliance.

  50. steve
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    “we will respect the referendum result”

    “no deal is better than a bad deal”

    “we will deliver Brexit”

    “we will be leaving on 29th March”

    “we will be leaving on 31st Oct”

    “I’d rather be found dead in a ditch”

    “do or die” (yet he still lives)

    “we will be leaving on 31st Jan”

    TIME’S UP !

    ………Brexit Party.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

      not comfortable reading, is it?

  51. NickW
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    The choice in this election is between voting for MPs who have shown themselves to be unprincipled liars who represent the interest of the EU not the UK, or of having a political reset which re-establishes the Sovereignty of the people.

    Boris made two promises, the first to the electorate, that we would leave the EU on October 31st, and the second, to the Opposition parties, in order to get an election, that “No Deal was off the table”.

    We all know which promise was kept, and which one was broken, and we can readily draw the necessary conclusions.

    The polls are worthless, the seething anger that Parliament has provoked by it’s treachery has not gone away; the Conservatives have lost the electorate’s trust.

    Winning an election requires that you have more seats than your enemy; that can be achieved by either winning seats yourself, or by your opponent losing them.

    If the Brexit party can take a Labour seat which would be impossible for the Conservatives to win; that is a step on the road to a Boris majority. If the seat goes to the Lib Dems it is no better, (if not worse) than it going to Labour.

    If Boris does not facilitate the Brexit party taking Labour seats where they can, we can only conclude, that like May, Boris does not want a majority and does not want to leave the EU.

    If I lived in Sir John’s constituency I would vote for him without the slightest hesitation because he has shown himself to be truthful, loyal to the UK and honest; unfortunately Sir John is the exception in the Conservative party, not the rule.

  52. Ian@Barkham
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    Good morning Sir John

    Your asperations are on the right track, not only that are practicle and logical.

    The however – the party from its association with the LD under the Cameron regiem moved so far to the left they have forgotten the true meaning of the Conservative Party. This is demonstrated by the appalling WA mark 1V. Nothing in it will permit self Government, self Rule, Sovereignty. It sets out to contain and restrict the UK.

    A Free Democracy is when the People can hold their elected representatives to account for the Laws and Rules society follows. When the People through their representatives can have Laws scrutinized, amended, repealed they become free and Sovereign. None of this will be permitted under the WA, the direction and scope of the UK will still be manipulated by the EU Commission with the support of the Political Court that is the ECJ.

    Not forgetting that even the EU Parliament cant even act as Democratic representatives of the People in this regard, scrutiny – not permitted. Just extremely well paid puppets of a dictatorship.

    This election is messy and will get dirtier. Today it has been shown how the Momentum Group are instructing their followers how to vote and vote often for Labour. The system doesn’t prevent it. As Momentum are not a Political Party their funding and actions are not subject to any sort of scrutiny.

  53. margaret howard
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink


    “The Labour leadership have admired some latin American countries like Venezuela in the past for their generous expansion of welfare and state spending, only to see the misery economic collapse creates”

    As usual you don’t mention the mostly EU countries where generous welfare spending goes hand in hand with successful economies and superior living standards for all.

    • Eh?
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

      The EU countries you mention are capitalist. The Labour Party wishes to totally remove capitalism in all matters.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

      He perhaps does not mention it because it is quite untrue!

    • steve
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

      Margaret Howard

      “As usual you don’t mention the mostly EU countries where generous welfare spending goes hand in hand with successful economies and superior living standards for all.”

      Paid for by us.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 4, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink


        What a load of nonsense look at what we actually pay to the EU

    • Edward2
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

      Like Romania Cyprus Portugal Greece Italy and Spain?

      • bill brown
        Posted November 4, 2019 at 8:35 am | Permalink

        Edward 2

        Again you are showing your ignorance about Europe

        • Edward2
          Posted November 4, 2019 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

          Oh go on bill, stop being such a tease and tell us all you know.

    • Chris
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

      Go and live in Greece, mh, before you utter such nonsense. Superior living standards for all? One example of many hardships that have been inflicted on MS: Greece has been bled dry by the EU and the policies imposed to deal with insurmountable debt, resulting in severe hardship, very high youth unemployment, no hope and general hysteresis.

  54. Ian@Barkham
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    We all should be willing and able to contribute to the taxes that pay for our quality of life. That of course only comes about when the costs to society are distributed equally.

    Our friends on the left do not participate in equality, they wouldn’t exist if every one believed there was such a thing. The left is always about them and us, whoever ‘them’ and ‘us’ are. The left is good at convincing some that they can have it all because someone else will pay. The left is good at convincing people that they can have the same rewards as those that have worked hard for them, and it will cost them nothing other than to vote for the dream.

    95% of the people understand this. But, it only takes 2 or 3% of the People to be persuaded for an election to be won or lost.

    The left is never about a free and equitable society it is about control and punishment.

    • steve
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:32 pm | Permalink


      “The left is never about a free and equitable society it is about control and punishment.”

      Of course ! That’s why theirs is called the politics of envy. Corbyn has started his campaign with ‘bash the rich’ as the main item in his manifesto.

      It’ll serve him right if the rich bash him back.

  55. BillM
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    It should a simple policy to follow. Reward the hard working and the innovative entrepreneurs, assist the less fortunate but do not bailout failing enterprises nor provide hand outs to the shirkers or those not entitled to use our Welfare State for free.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

      Bill – – should be simple eh? dream on – politicians don’t do the bleedin’ obvious.

  56. jane4brexit
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Assuming many who voted UKIP led by Farage in 2015, will vote TBP led by Farage this election, likely far more after we have been treated so dreadfully by most MPs, parties, parliament, the HofLs and the EU, it needs pointing out to Boris that UKIP came second in 120 seats in 2015 sometimes close.

    Having watched those 2015 results I seem to remember most if not all were second to Labour, in areas where Tories do not usually gain votes. This was presumably the reason for the referendum and while I understand the main parties not advertising this fact, as it suits them to suggest votes for new parties are wasted, they do themselves no favours believing their own propaganda.

  57. Wessexboy
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

    Anybody who blindly votes TBP when there is a possibility of splitting the vote is really stupid.The remainers are working very hard on tactical voting strategies. Let’s iron out the lesser problems later….

    • Caterpillar
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

      Blindly? I think it is eyes wide open.

  58. alastair harris
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    I have a concern about the tory party. The news today that the government has banned fracking. Allegedly following an earthquake at the Preston New Road site. Even though it was a minor tremor and there is no evidence it was caused by Fracking. This seems to be part of a wider malaise. A tendency to knee jerk policy, and to ban stuff. David Cameron’s pledge to have a bonfire of red tape seems to have been cast aside a long time ago. And I don’t see any evidence that the political classes in general understand the impact of the regulation they impose.
    I have a lot of time for Boris, but I have concerns over the energy policies he is likely to pursue, and the ongoing policy to convert us to battery powered vehicles is just madness. I don’t know whether fuel cells are a better answer, although I believe they have the potential to be, but surely this is something for the scientists, the technologists and the market to deal with. History tells us governments are terrible at stuff like this.
    I won’t vote for a labour party that is intent on wrecking our economy by following the failed policies of the 70’s, and I won’t vote for an increasingly illiberal liberal democratic party. So it is a choice between Boris and Nigel, and it is a difficult choice!

    • Fred H
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 10:38 am | Permalink

      Why difficult? Nigel’s party has a policy expressed in the name – quite clear what they intend to do. Boris’ party has shockingly bad history over the last 10 years, not helped by his failure and pretence at carrying out a tough message. Can he be trusted – I like the fella – but have little confidence in his political judgement. Just what will the Conservative party put in their manifesto? Will it be largely ignored should they scrape into power – most certainly if without a majority which seems likely. So hold your nose and vote for Cameron/May/Johnson and the CCHQ, or support what it says on the can. Half the country will not find the decision difficult – dozens of 4 way splits!
      Oh joy – more of the same for years.

  59. Pragmatist
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, correction I should have written ‘increasing sterility of males” in Germany and Russia not “decreasing.” I was reading in Russian text and in German text from their publications. They frequently get things the wrong way round. National traits I’m afraid. Nothing to be done.

  60. ian
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    They only know KEYNESIAN the prefered choice of governments in power to stay in power with the slogan everything is great. Believe or not Brexit is sideshow up against Climate change, all three main parties are going go full retard on it and will borrow hundreds of billions of pounds to look good on the world stage while having not effected on the world’s climate what so ever, Stand by unprecedented borrowing and spend by all main parties if elected while they will force you to spend thousands of pounds on your homes and cars to keep the economy from collapsing.

  61. NickW
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

    I have read comments elsewhere from those with links to the Conservative Party which claim that the Conservatives can and will take 30-40 seats off Labour and consequently have nothing to gain from any arrangement with the Brexit party. Presumably this is based on opinion poll information; the same kind of opinion polls which gave Clinton a 98% chance of beating Trump.

    I lived and worked in the North of England for many years and I have to say that anyone who thinks Northern Labour Constituencies will suddenly vote Conservative is deluding themselves into believing something so unlikely that it’s pure fantasy. It is not going to happen.

    Given that even formerly loyal Conservatives are deserting the party in droves, the idea that Labour voters will support Boris is utterly ridiculous.

  62. Eh?
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Mr Grieve has chaired an “totally unbiased and independent report” from a Committee on possible Russian Interference in our Referendum 🙂

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2019 at 8:03 pm | Permalink


  63. Odyssey
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Interesting to note that Sir John refers to the Conservatives as ‘they’ (third para).
    Is this evidence of a mental separation from the party? Could he possibly considering a defection to TBP?

  64. Paul Ackerley
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Sorry, John, but in this, you are wrong. Unlike every other GE in the past hundred-odd years this isn’t about parties, or manifestos, it’s about Brexit, and about trust.

    Even as a Leaver, if I were to vote for the Lib Dems I would trust them 100% to honour their pledge of cancelling Brexit.
    Undemocratic, given the referendum? Absolutely. But democratic if they get in (without ballot rigging).

    As I leaver, if I vote for the Brexit Party I would trust them 100% to honour their pledge of a true Brexit.

    If I vote Labour – well, I cannot trust them, on anything, ever.

    As I leaver, if I vote for the your party, from Boris’s BRINO, I would feel betrayed. Lied to. We have no trust in Boris, nor in your party, nor any more in the ERG.

    The referendum: Well, Conservatives started that – then ran away from it the second they lost, so betrayed Leave and Remain voters alike.

    May’s BRINO deal? That’s neither in, nor out, so betrayed Leave and Remain voters alike.

    May’s pledge to leave in March 2019? That lie was repeated over 100 times, right up to the very end.

    Boris’s “superb” “fantastic deal? This legally binding treaty is STILL May’s BRINO deal – that’s neither in, nor out, so betrayed Leave and Remain voters alike. That’s why the EU loved it, accepted it without hesitation. Before October, well “his hands were tied”, with a GE ahead, and his hands freed – he still supports this vassalage deal. Another betrayal.

    Boris’s pledge to leave in October 2019 or “die in ditch”? That lie was also repeated right up to the very end.

    The Conservatives are in it for themselves, for party before country, they cannot be trusted.

    I’d rather have an undemocratic Lib Dem government than a corrupt and deceitful Conservative government and that is a problem. That is what you face wolking into this election thinking Boris’s “deal” will save you.

    Ditch the treaty, or watch your party die in a ditch!

    • libertarian
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      Paul Ackerley

      You might want to try to factor in the reality of the systems we use to elect governments and the political ramifications

      Brexit Party will win precisely NO seats , so no they won’t clean break leave

  65. Iain Gill
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    why should I believe any of the political class? the lies are obvious, repeated, and proven.

    maybe a few years of Corbyn is the wake up call the whole political class needs to get a grip.

    I am not voting for uncapped intra company transfer visas, IR35 decimating the freelance sector, taxing foreign workers here less than locals, random unaccountable rationing decisions by CCG’s, giving our fish and money to the EU, throwing money at public services that are inefficient failures, tax & legal regime which encourage imports from countries that pollute more than we do when we make the same goods, open racism against the white working classes by many arms of the state, do I really have to go on?

  66. Andrew S
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

    What fools Boris and tory leadership are to push on with the surrender agreement and not make a leave alliance pact. It will backfire. The Brexit Party will hopefully get seats enough along with the DUP to be kingmakers and force the tories to leave on WTO terms. Its a gamble but one worth taking for the sake of our freedom and sovereignty.

  67. tim
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

    The Conservative Party manifesto would stop the possibility of the UK leaving the EU without a deal. “Brexit betrayal” There is no choice, Brexit party, Nigel Farage for PM.

  68. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

    Dare I mention Nigel Farage and the Brexit Party? Nigel has a brilliant strategy but lousy tactics. Boris Johnson is not going to pull his WA2 in spite of its flaws. A more reasonable idea is for ‘Spartan’ Brexiteers to attempt to modify WA2 through the mechanism of the Bill presented to the house to ensure that the entire WA2 is time limited to the end of 2020.

    What are the most useful things that the Brexit Party can do?

    Firstly, to ensure that as many overtly pro-European candidates as possible are defeated.

    Secondly, to contest solid Labour seats that voted heavily to leave. Sunderland would be near top of the list. Left of centre Brexit candidates have a much better chance of winning such seats than Conservative candidates. Claire Fox, Kate Hoey (if she can be persuaded to stand), even Alan Sked, come to mind.

    Overall, there are about 50 seats where a Brexit Party candidate would fulfil a useful role.

  69. Original Richard
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

    I would think it very unlikely that there would be any national/formal agreement between the Conservative Party and the Brexit Party.

    The Conservative Party, whilst wanting to be able to convince leave voters that they intend to implement an exit from the EU, also want to retain as many of their remain voters as possible. They intend to do this by arguing that although the referendum should be respected we need to leave with a deal in an orderly fashion and this is what differentiates them from the Brexit Party.

    The Brexit Party, on the other hand, also do not want to have an agreement. Firstly because they want an immediate “clean” Brexit and secondly because they want to pick up votes from leavers who would never, ever vote for the Conservative Party or for any party aligned with it. So the Brexit Party need to ensure they are seen as not colluding with the Conservative Party.

  70. ukretired123
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

    After 4 years of wretched MPs saying one thing and doing another it beggars belief we have been reduced to useful idiots by both the EU and UK politicians hiding from real Brexit deliverance. I fear for the country’s future. Boris delivering what he called a polished whatsname is BRINO not Brexit. God save us from this mess!

  71. Ian terry
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Sir John

    The political parties quite correctly are only interested in winning the election, understandably so that is the name of the game.

    It is winner takes all and just sometimes you have to join forces with people that you would by choice by choose to ignore, but when the opposition are playing the same game is it not stupid to ignore an opportunity to win handsomely rather that risk another hung parliament that will descend into the chaos as the last one? It is winning by any fair legal means and nothing being offered is illegal across any of the parties.

    Nobody loves or remembers losers, the only language and game the EU understand is hard ball. Being nice is not in their DNA. Keeping the UK topping up their bank accounts is. How much longer will this be allowed to go on? If the EU crashed financially after we leave with this Withdrawal Treaty how much more will that cost the UK tax payers?

    • Chris
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

      Re the cost of bailing out the EU: I have seen £4oo billion given as possible liability for the UK.

  72. ian
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

    Shouldn’t the Tory be attacking Labour and Lib Dems and not the Brexit party?

  73. dixie
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

    While I can understand Boris not wanting to ally with The Brexit Party I will not be voting Conservative if the intent is to push his Withdrawal Agreement.

    Leave with no Withdrawal Agreement and seek an FTA.

  74. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

    Well, what a depressing read this blog is today. The writing is on the wall for your party John. The pig headedness of the party is beyond belief. The Tory government has blown it yet again. How can they all be so stupid. It’s right there in their faces and they cannot see what will happen. Makes me wonder how anyone can vote for any member when they are so obviously short sighted. Welcome to the new world. One of madness and no leadership that means anything anymore. What a way to carry on in front of the whole world.

    • rose
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

      Would you be saying this if it had not been for the passage of the illegitimate Benn Burt Surrender Directive?

  75. ian
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

    there is no chance of any party winning this election with a majority, the con party might have the majority of media pumping out propaganda for them but most people be wise to them and will most likely work against them.

    • Close knit?
      Posted November 5, 2019 at 1:43 am | Permalink

      Most people are at work when the media are pumping out their nonsense. That is another miscalculation of Labour. They are not speaking to long term unemployed. Workers are busy! Nowadays, you will be surprised what new minds they encounter at work. Not the same as before.

  76. Everhopeful
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

    Sudden thought.
    Doesn’t matter who gets the most votes in the election does it?
    This country no longer respects democratic decisions.

    • Me
      Posted November 5, 2019 at 1:38 am | Permalink

      “This country no longer respects democratic decisions.” I do. That is all that matters.

  77. old salt
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    I must be missing something. Why is it GE’s are implemented but Referendums disputed?

    • tim
      Posted November 3, 2019 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

      Old salt- it is time to get Gina Miller type to go to supreme court and say we did not know what we voted for, cancel the 2017 GE result and do it again until we get the right result

  78. mancunius
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 10:43 pm | Permalink

    At least this time round no voter is going to imagine that if they vote Labour it will mean a modern, technocratic social democrat government (as they were led to imagine by Wilson, Callaghan, John Smith and Tony Blair). That will not prevent a kneejerk ‘class-warfare’ vote for Labour; and many disgusted with Boris’s lack of resistance to the Benn Act and his acceptance of 95% of May’s WA might not vote at all, or vote TBP.

  79. Edwardm
    Posted November 2, 2019 at 11:31 pm | Permalink

    Whilst I agree with what JR says, but if Boris Johnson sets himself against the Brexit Party and its concerns about the WA, then electors who share those concerns will be discouraged from voting Conservative. And when they stop listening, warnings about one J.Corbyn won’t work.

  80. rose
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    To make this choice people need the PM to explain very clearly through the broadcasters’ baracking that it was Parliament, behaving in an extraordinarily illegitimate way, led by Conservative renegades and a bent Speaker, which broke his promise to take us out on Oct 31st, not the PM. At the moment the broadcasters are shouting him down with “you broke your promise” over and over again. So are the Opposition. He must be crystal clear about how it happened.

  81. Helen Smith
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

    Very worried by Nigel, he has gone completely rogue.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 5, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

      Helen – – It is indeed worrying that politicians stick with their views.

  82. Diane
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    All I would like to say here having read the various posts is this: Are members of the government & MPs actually reading these comments & the many, many thousands of others on other websites & blogs. The turning against the Conservatives & this WA & the negative responses to the steady drip, drip of various sound bites we’re getting is well & truly out there in my opinion. “The 21” ? No Deal off the table ? If you vote BP you get Labour/Corbyn?.. It seems the party never learns. No doubt people now awaiting the party’s manifesto. It really did not have to be like this. Democracy itself at stake & look at where we’ve ended up. We now need to be told in the forthcoming weeks exactly what we are in under this WA and stated in terms that everyone can understand. People will not be fobbed off any longer. I am sick of the constant unenlightening political speak ! And I agree with Rose’s mention that it must be made clear we / the PM ended up in this position. There are plenty out there that still really have no idea.

  83. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted November 3, 2019 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    Do you want better productivity?

    (1) Impose a tourniquet on immigration. Businesses would be forced to use labour more efficiently.

    (2) Facilitate shorter opening hours for shops, particularly retail chains that are struggling. There are several shops in Basingstoke mall that open from 11 to 5 on a Sunday and cannot justify that opening from a profit point of view.

  84. Roger Phillips
    Posted November 4, 2019 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

    Absolute election suicide to refuse a pact with BXP when the remain side are openly doing so.

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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