A green agenda

It is commonsense to save energy by investment in insulation and fuel efficiency in heating systems. It is a good idea to improve the fuel savings on vehicles and to find less fuel intensive ways of travelling. I am keen to see the removal of VAT from green products.

It is important to our quality of life that we protect and enhance the natural world around us. We need to protect woods and fields from development where possible, and make sure we look after the beauty of the landscape and the countryside beyond our cities and towns.

The government does run grant systems to allow people on qualifying benefits to insulate their homes with a grant, and to replace old heating boilers with modern more efficient ones. There is money available for loft insulation and wall insulation. It also makes sense for those of us not on benefits to make improvements in our own homes. Cutting the future fuel bill is a good idea. Modern boilers can be much more efficient than old ones Blocking off draughts and stopping heat leakage through walls makes sense.

We can also improve the fuel efficiency of our transport. More people are choosing to walk or cycle for shorter distances. New vehicles can be considerably more fuel efficient than older ones.

We can also cut down on food miles. One quarter of the freight miles travelled on our roads is carrying food around. Some perishable food coming long distance is flown in. If we choose more local produce or seek out the British label we can reduce the travel cost of our food and the impact that has on the environment.

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  1. Lifelogic
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    Well it is not always sensible to insulate the payback (in energy saving) on many insulation projects is often insufficient to cover the interest on the capital costs. Insulating tower blocks at vast expense and putting them at greater fire risk was an idiotic thing to do. The energy saving might only be less that 0.1% of the cost of such insulating.

    New vehicles can indeed be a little more efficient but the new vehicles have to be built using a lot of energy, They are also more complex and often cost more to maintain and depreciate more. So it might not make sense for vehicles that are not used that much.

    An advert on LBC says that even old Horse Box Vehicles are to be banned by the Mayor. How often might such a vehicle come into London, once or twice a year perhaps? Address the vehicles that are in use all day every day such taxis, buses, delivery vehicles, skip trucks – rather than one that comes in a few times a year.

    Walking and cycling are fuelled by extra food intake and do not really save CO2 (if you consider the full energy cycles of food production, storage, delivery and cooking). Particularly if you are a meat eater. Does anyone really think it is more efficient for seven people to walk from London to Birmingham than to take a people carrier using perhaps 2 gallons of fuel and taking tw0 hours rather than thirty and needing a hotel room on route?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      Plus of course a lot of energy is used producing, delivering and fitting this insulation. Sometimes rather more energy than will be ever be saved by the insulation. Some insulation makes sense some does not so do the sums.

      Talk yesterday on the BBC radio 4 about the “Anthropocene” age defined it seems as:-
      relating to or denoting the current geological age, viewed as the period during which human activity has been the dominant influence on climate and the environment.

      I am sure the sun will be greatly relieved to no long to have to be “the dominant influence on climate”. I would however be most grateful if it would continue shining – as overnight for a few more years. This as in just 12 hours the temperature can often drop 20 degrees so after a week or darkness or so we well might have some issues!

      • Hope
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

        The Mass immigration policy of the Tory govt for the last nine years, in stark contrast in breaking three central election promises to cut to tens of thousands, should be ringing in people’s ears. You cannot import millions of people without realising they will need food, housing, energy, health care, water, transport etc. Mayhab signed up to the UN immigration pact, currently taking immigrants by plane loads to European countries, before she left office!

        The Tory govt claims to be zero carbon by 2050 shows complete dishonesty because it is in stark contrast to their actual record of historic high immigration! The two are not reconciliable.

        People need to accept the Tory govt, and party, have a track record of dishonest promises to get elected. It is not possible as an island to have historic record numbers of immigration and illegal immigration while having a policy to cut to tens of thousands. This was deliberate and it was dishonest. There has been no explanation why the promises and targets are now dropped. Same for deficit, same for debt, same for Lothian question. Tories now want to creat a dishonest narrative it was parliament not its,govt that failed to deliver Brexit in the largest democratic turn out in history. The Tory govt failed, not opposition,parties- that is thier job, not parliament. Mayhab and the atory govt and now ajohnson and his Tory govt failed to leave by 31/10/2019. No one else, Tory Boris Johnson failed to honour his numerous bold words to leave the EU. Why would any intelligent person believe him again?

      • Ed M
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink


        As quoted to you before, Cambridge University seems to be saying the opposite to you regarding Climate Change.

        Can I please raise the point about Car Seat Belts! The Car Industry was scared in the past that introducing Law on Seat Belts would diminish Car Sales. They fought this tooth and nail. When in end, Seat Belts had no effect on Cars Sales! It was a complete waste of time and energy on the Car Industry when they should have been focused on making the best cars possible!

        Just as the Car Industry lost this battle so the Tobacco Industry lost the battle over smoking (it’s now considered poor show to smoke in circles I inhabit and also dangerous and stupid not to wear a seat belt!).

        At end of day, the Greenies will win the battle of Climate Change. Science backs up their argument. But also increasingly Business doesn’t want to be associated with causes of Climate Change – and so Business will back the Greenies more and more. Question is whose side The Tories will be on – and whether we play a role in controlling The Green Agenda instead of letting the Greenie Anarchists control it (and takes votes away from Tories at elections).

        Lastly, Business Enterprise is amazing. Just looking at what PayPal founder Elon Musk is achieving in technology (and he will have both great success and great failures – part of the spirit of enterprise!).

        Only today, I read about a woman who has invented a plastic made from fish scales (that biodegrades and that we can eat!). How successful this product will be, I don’t know. But scientists / technology entrepeneur will make even better products like it (and make LOTS OF MONEY OUT OF IT!!).

        Ultimately, creating the Green Technology for the Future isn’t just an exciting CHALLENGE for entrepreneurs (this is what they really ENJOY) – it also leads to lots of $$$$$$$ – both directly to those in Green Technology but also to related High Tech / Digital industries, leading to more revenue to government, higher skills, higher productivity, higher exports across UK and abroad, and greater sense of patriotism in British Industry.

        A WIN-WIN (for Environment + Business + Country + Conservative Party as long as we join The Green Agenda, but without being slaves to it either).

  2. Lifelogic
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    If you really want to cut down CO2 (which the science suggests is not actually needed at all as most sensible scientist admit including Corbyn’s brighter brother) then turn the heating down, wear thermal underwear and more jumpers, heat only the rooms that you need to, stop eating meat, live close to where you work or work from home, eat foods in season only, fully wear out your old clothes and shoes, ignore fashion, do not buy a new car, switch things off when not in use, live in smaller houses and regularly share bodily warmth. Do not take holidays, do not redecorate you home, shop second hand & at charity shops.

    A huge increase in nuclear power is the only real way to save significant CO2 in electricity generation. Intermittent wind, solar plus imported biofuels make virtually no sense at all. Electric cars too do not anything much for CO2 when considered fully manufacture and the energy production. Only if you have a massive nuclear programme can electric cars do anything very much for C02.

    Scrap Hammond’s idiotic (up to 15%) stamp duty so people can move closer to work without being mugged so heavily perhaps?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:16 am | Permalink

      I do not imaging the Prince Charles, Emma Thompson, Prince Harry types will do any of this and they will continue with their large heated houses, first class flights, extensive travel, expensive and extensive wardrobes, private jets and helicopters and meat eating.

      Until they do do we should continue to see them for what they clearly are – first class, grade one, do as I say not as I do, hypocrites. Rather pathetic ones at that.

      • Hope
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

        JR, are we expected to accept this Dumb Westminster green group think, the same people who told us to buy diesel cars in 2003 to now tell us not to? You might recall Johnson slating off Westminster for “conning” the public to buy diesel and now punish them for doing so. He now supports that policy! Perhaps die in a ditch, do or die to make it happen. Who cares, he cannot be believed in anything he says. Just like his previous thoughts on a Mayhab’s vassalage Brexit he is now promoting and lying as a new deal.

        The Westminster ones who changed a coal fired power station, Drax, to one that burns wood chip, from trees cut down in the US transported by diesel vehicles/vessel to the UK and burned where we are expected to believe this helps the planet somehow! Idiotic clap trap to say the least.

        Alternatively, is your party following this geen line because of Johnson’s latest squeeze? When he changes girlfriend, which his history shows he will, will national policy be based on his next girlfriend’s wishes?

        Your party is beyond help in a variety of key policy issues where it has shown be to inept, dishonest and say anything to get elected.

        Prof. Kelly Cambridge thinks it is not credible to implement zero carbon emissions in the long term let alone short term time frame set by the politicos at Westminster- article in Con Woman today.

  3. Mark B
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Good morning – again.

    The government does run grant systems to allow people on qualifying benefits to insulate their homes . . .

    I applied for these. Needless to say I did not qualify. Just remove the VAT. A insulation and a new boiler are not a luxury items.

    The strategy is clear. To make people more fuel and water efficient, they will restrict supply / choice and increase the cost. Make them use less by paying more !

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      There have been similar insulation schemes in the past. Unfortunately they were not well supervised, and many of the – private sector – contractors were, as ever, slapdash at best and often simply frauds.

      Local authorities need centrally-funded, properly run, in-house departments to do this if we are serous.

      The least that is required is inspection and certification by qualified people, independent of the industry, before the contractors are paid for their work.

      Unfortunately this does not conform to present-day dogma in your party, John.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

        That’s is nonsense.
        Councils already have building control departments.
        They do a number of building inspections during your project if you are renovating, extending or doing a new build.
        To do proper inspections of the level of insulation is already part of the planning permission process.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

          Well, they didn’t do it for me when I had in insulation contractors.

          The fraudsters got the grant money, no questions asked.

          I had to take my own steps to assess the “work” and then to remedy the position.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

            Ask the bereaved of Grenfell Tower whether councils have adequate inspection and enforcement obligations and provision.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

            As I said in my post…it is part of the planning permission process.
            Obviously your project didn’t have or didn’t require planning permission.
            And you chose very bad contractors.

        • Alan Jutson
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 11:29 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Retro fit insulation does not require planning permission or Building regulation approval, unless things have changed in recent years.

          I sat on the British Standards Committee for insulation of houses when the upgrade was made to insulate them better with regards to loft and cavity wall insulation very many years ago.

          Cavity wall insulation systems are completed Via either British Standards approval or The British Board of Agreement, for Certification of product, installation and performance.

          Independent Site inspection of work completed is rare (once a year typically) as operators are regarded as competent ofter original certification and practical testing.

          I was also vice chairman of the National loft Insulation ContractorsAassociation and sat on the Committee for the National Cavity Wall contractors Insulation Association for a number of years.

          Just like any other organisation and business, standards within the industry vary according to the competence of the operators on site.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

            I agree Alan.
            As a single improvement you are correct.
            But if you are doing a new build or a refurbishment of a property then these require planning approvals and part of those approvals will include the insulation of the property to standards demanded by the local authority.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      The hassles of applying and the restrictions put on government grant schemes invariably means they are worse than useless. Wasting lots of people’s time. Often you are restricted to certain suppliers who then charge far more than market price for example. Or they cover the wrong types of products for your house for examples.

    • WiltshireVoter
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      More train stations for small towns would facilitate thousands of journeys taken by car. A better infrastructure investment than HR2 for the amenity of communities all over the country and the improvement of congestion and pollution everywhere.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

        The more stops a train makes the longer it takes to make the journey. The fewer stops it makes the further people have to travel at each end to catch it (often double journey X 2 at each end with a taxi or the partner in a car).

        One person at a small station might hold up 200 people on the train for five mins just so that just one person can alight. If you value their time at say £12 an hour then that person getting off has cost the other passengers £200. Plus all the cost of running the extra station. So it only makes sense with a certain number using each station.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

          LL – – it doesn’t happen at our station – the guard plays a game of ‘close the doors while there are several people trying to squeeze onboard’, due the the train being late- again and its full. Its all over in less than 1 minute – several hands and shoulders bashed trying to assist the last ones to get on. I’m sure SWT guards keep count how many they hit.

    • Mockbeggar
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:32 am | Permalink

      I have a home insulation system. It’s called a second jumper and turn off the central heating during the day.

      • Mark B
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:57 pm | Permalink


      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

        A very efficient and inexpensive one it is too.

        An electric blanket is very efficient as well (or sleep with a close friend). Heat the bed rather than the whole room!

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

          Don’t get many visitors, one assumes.

          • Anonymous
            Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

            I have visions of party political canvassers being dragged in and kept ‘prisoner’ to provide warmth.

  4. Ian Wragg
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    Mrs May legislated to decarbonise by 2050 and ban newbiuld gas systems by 2025. A stupid and expensive virtue signal if ever there was one.
    We neither have the electricity capacity or technology but who cares, it sounds good.

    • Dame Rita Webb QC
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:48 am | Permalink

      Nigel Farage is facilitating the return of Mrs May to Westminster plus six of the ten MPs who had the Tory whip removed from them for frustrating Boris’s deal. Thats the state of British politics today. I will be more interested in preparing for the school nativity play than this general election . £25 down the drain

      • Mark B
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

        I was seriously going to handover £25 to the BXP. Then Nigel suddenly changed my mind. Phew !

        • gregory martin
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

          Its just in this election that the 317 Brexit Party candidates are to be withheld. The likely minority/hung parliament may not last more than a few months, and we may all be able to go at it full belt at the next opportunity. Remember, its the Swamp that needs to be drained, before Lisbon, before Agenda 2030, before long.

          • Simeon
            Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

            The situation is dire, and I agree that a hung Parliament is still a distinct possibility, if not in fact a probability. However, Farage has blown it. His decisive commodity was trust. That now has gone (he trusted Boris Johnson, and BJ didn’t even say anything new!), and with it the one way of holding the other parties to account. I’d be amazed if the Brexit party won two seats, and surpised if they managed one. I’d also be very surprised if they end up standing for more than 20 or so seats, even if they announce 300-odd candidates tomorrow.

      • Bob
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

        Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
        The BP was always controlled opposition, just look beyond the razzmatazz and it’s obvious. It was set up with the sole intent of depriving UKIP of members and funding.

        Too late now.

        • TooleyStu
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

          Unfortunately true.
          When Farage is questioned on anything remotely efficient, like using Common Law to overturn the EU acts, he runs a mile.
          And when questioned about Military Unification or PESCO he can’t run away fast enough.

          Controlled opposition, Divide and Rule.
          Still working well I see.

          Tooley Stu

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      Indeed May was exceptionally stupid and clearly understood almost nothing about energy, engineering, entropy, the laws of physics, chaotic climate systems, economics, logic, winning elections, lowering taxes, being honest, having self rule, the work life choices the genders freely take in employment and subject they choose to study …………. is this dire woman standing again as a Conservative she is at best a no nation, anti-democratic Libdim.

      Gas heating in homes is rather efficient in fact. This as unlike electrical heating it does not waste about 60% of the energy at the power station and in transmission! Gas energy can also be stored easily and cheaply, heats up homes more quickly in general and is fully on demand. Why would anyone but a deluded idiot with no understanding of science want to ban it?

      • Hope
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

        LL, We read Sheldon’s biography view of how she kept everything close to her chest and not told anyone! Thinking she could do it all herself! Where was collective responsibility? Why did no cabinet minister demand it? Why her deceitful Chequers plan did not see her downfall? Why was she allowed to wreck Brexit without question by her cabinet, particularly those who claimed to be leavers?

        This is the Tory govts. After 8th December 2017 lots of questions should have been asked. When she strayed from Lancaster, no questions, her second and third speech should have rung alarm bells in their heads. But no, we understand she was still given free reign! 108 times claiming to leave by 29/03/2019. Mostly from her own party and they all accepted it. She repeatedly lied. Why is he now not impeached? Party survival that is why. Leave by 12th April, June no EU elections to take place, they did. And still her Cabinet and party supported her! Now they All want to claim it was parliaments,fault, not the Tory govt or party but someone else to deceive the public, again, more dishonesty.

        Mayhab is not stupid, she was allowed by her party, cabinet and govt to act as she did and they all should now suffer for their complicity in failing to honour the will of the public. Democracy is central to this election. Vote Tory and you vote against democracy.

        We had all the scare stories before with Cameron against “Red Ed” and SNP. Cameron had promised to address the Lothian question and deliberately failed to do so by fudge then gave as much of our taxes as he could to the SNP before the Scottish referendum when he slated them! Still no English parliament. Mayhab implemented “Red Ed’s energy policy, that Cameron ridiculed and smeared Miliband for. Now we have the Corbyn SNP threat. But this of course could have been negated had the Tory govt kept its promise to properly address the Lothian question!

    • Nig l
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      Agreed. Our host is talking good common sense. I am afraid many others, don’t.

    • Andy
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 11:05 am | Permalink

      How old will you be in 2050? My son will be 37 – probably having kids of his own. All of them having to sort out your mess, which you were too selfish to deal with.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

        How old will you be Andy? Perhaps still waiting for an OAP pension payable at 80 ? Your views will have been inacted – so no NHS for you, no benefits, no bus pass, no Railcard discount – probably banned from driving older than 50. Teeth, eyes, hips, bowels- no help for you – enjoy the future you want for us.

      • NickC
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

        Andy, Is this the son that has had no birthdays for the last 2 years? Shame on you. At least he won’t be a serf of the EU empire by then because we will be leaving soon.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

      Yet I read this morning that a Tesla car was the UK’s 3rd best selling car in August (I think, might have been September). So, there is a change going on and the government needs to invest in a massive expansion of sustainable, green, renewable electricity generation.

      If that is nuclear – fine. I read that some method of re-using the spent fuel is on the cards.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

        I am perfectly happy to stop using my gas fired central heating – if I can put efficient electric powered convectors in each room that have the same output as my radiators and which cost no more to run.

        Cheap energy is essential for everyone. The government needs to stop fracking about and get on with a massive expansion of clean electricity generation.

        • NickC
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

          Mike Wilson, You may not have noticed but electricity cannot be mined, fracked, isn’t in sunlight, nor blows in the wind. Electricity is always converted industrially from some other energy source. Therefore electricity will always be more expensive than the energy source from which it is converted. So bang goes your pipedream of electric heating which “costs no more” than abundant natural gas.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

        Well perhaps it was the third best selling but sales of electric cars are only about 1% of total car sales. Mainly sole to rich, city dwelling, virtue signallers and parking spaces at their houses. They make zero economic or practical sense for most people other than perhaps as a second city car that does not pay congestion, parking or fuel taxes.

        In other words they only work as other tax payers subsidise these people.

  5. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    We didn’t qualify for loft insulation. We drive a modern lower emission car but are taxed highly on it due to value. Crazy. We have installed a new highly efficient oil boiler as we have no gas. My qualified heating engineer husband doesn’t like electric boilers. I can’t say I am looking forward to the dark ages but I might have to lump it. When are we going to get some common sense policies from our so called leaders? I am sick of all the new think coming out of parliament. Can we just get on with life please?

    • Mark B
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

      When are we going to get some common sense policies . . .

      When people finally wake up and start voting for other parties. Either than or revolution.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

        Mark B And which party would you suggest. None of them are worth a rub.

        • NickC
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

          Fedupsoutherner, UKIP does not go in for the greencrap, and would scrap the subsidies.

        • Mark B
          Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

          Choose the least worst.

          • Simeon
            Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

            Not a good enough answer in my view. Voting for the least worst rather than demanding something better is exactly why we’re in this mess.

  6. agricola
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    You expound the virtues but government has been shambolic on the subject. Until there is very clear policy we the public only do what is necessary knowing that even that may be a bad decision. The tendency to go green has seen government decision making at it’s very worst. Disjointed would not be an exageration.

  7. Simeon
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately the Redwood party isn’t standing in this election, but BJ’s Tories. Their green agenda is far more damaging to the economy than even the most outrageous misrepresentations of Corbyn’s spending plans. Obviously, Labour are signed up to decarbonisation as well, and so too the Lib Dems. So we have the choice of three catastrophic policy platforms to choose from. Decisions, decisions…

    As an aside, Sir John, now that Farage has left the Brexit battlefield, you are the last man standing. You’ve won! You are the Brexit champion! Please understand that I’m thinking of your wellbeing when I say this, but perhaps you should retire now? What else can you achieve in politics? You are marginalised in your own party because of your good sense. Banging your head repeatedly against a brick wall cannot be good for the health of your brain. I’d hate to see you end up like Muhammad Ali. You are not going to influence Tory policy, and it’s too late to start a new party. You can withdraw your Parliamentart candidacy and save yourself the trouble of trying (and inevitably failing), to defend the indefensible.

    You did what you could, you did your best, but the fools wouldn’t listen. And they’re not suddenly going to start listening. Thank you for all you’ve done and tried to achieve.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

      He does look like a man whose party seems to have rather left him behind.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

        Or a man whose party has gone away from core beliefs?

  8. Dominic
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    ‘A green agenda’. Or in normal, apolitical language, ‘A political agenda’.

    We live in a political world not a ‘green’ one. ‘Green’ equals political with all its attendant inferences, interference and systems of political control over our daily lives. Therefore when politicians make reference to such issues I always ask myself what exactly are their true intentions

    I believe the general thrust of this State controlled narrative is the creation of a world in which people’s expectations are formed and managed by a continual series of propaganda exercises. Greta incursion is but one aspect of the UN inspired attack on our values, views and aspirations

    The next step will be an attack on the importance of private property rights and the importance of the profit motive and its role to drive capital investment. In effect, the green agenda is an agenda whose aim is the direct control of how we consume resources to sustain life itself. Down that road leads political authoritarianism

    • Mark B
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:49 pm | Permalink


    • Turboterrier
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

      ‘Green’ equals political with all its attendant inferences, interference and systems of political control over our daily lives.

      Greens are all like the water melon. Green on the outside and red in the middle.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

      St Greta is their human shield. A child that cannot be argued with robustly.

      Kids are the most wasteful people on the planet. They drop litter and chase after every fad. They create mountains of plastic – in fact we called our children’s toy pile ‘the plastic mountain.’

      I could have done without all of it. What a drag it was. Much needed money spent on completely useless tat.

      Yet they now lecture us on the destruction of the planet whilst contaminating our homes, parks and beaches with their garbage…

      *contorts face into an angry mask*

      How dare they. HOW DARE THEY !

  9. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Where is our people’s vote on our approach to climate change?

    The Greens and advocates for spending our money on this natural phenomenon aren’t so keen that we should know what we are voting for when it comes to their own agenda

  10. Dave Andrews
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:22 am | Permalink

    I can think of no more significant contribution the UK can make to the environment but to turn off the flow of migrants, from warm countries to the UK’s temperate climate, where keeping warm in Winter currently requires the burning of fossil fuels.
    Making bricks and cement requires huge amounts of energy too, so house-building should be reduced to a trickle – just replace what needs to be demolished.

    • NickC
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      Dave Andrews, Don’t worry, the Lib-Dems, Labour, and Tories, have ended most high energy consumption industries in the UK. So you can rest easy in your bed knowing UK “carbon” emissions are reducing all the time. Hurrah for politicians who follow Greta like lapdogs but sneer at “climate deniers” as populists. For the Andys and Martins on here that was sarcasm.

      • acorn
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

        Denialism is a mix of corrosive doubt and corrosive credulity”, because once you start mistrusting the established authorities of information, you may be open to believing just about anyone. For denialists, the very attempt to silence or debunk them strengthens their cause—proof that the powers that be are suppressing the truth.

        Applicants interested in studying Politics, Philosophy, or Psychology may be interested in the concept of denial and denialism from a psychological or sociological perspective. Are we living in a “post-truth” culture? (OXBRIDGE APPLICATIONS)

        • NickC
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

          Acorn, Who is “denying” what? Are you referring to the non-technical, often innumerate, politicians who swoon over the regurgitated fashionable propaganda of a 16 year old, rather than engaging directly with facts, science, and technology? Do tell.

          • acorn
            Posted November 14, 2019 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

            Who’s facts are Denialists “engaging directly with”? Denialism is a recognised psychiatric disorder.

        • dixie
          Posted November 15, 2019 at 3:38 am | Permalink

          The Royal Society has a motto – Nullius in verba – take nobody’s word for it.

          Proven facts would be authoritative not the “established authorities” who provide today’s politically acceptable “slant” on them.

          Hockey sticks anyone?

  11. Roy Grainger
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    One thing we can do to reduce food miles and improve animal welfare is ban the export of live animals. The LibDems and Greens are keen for this practice to continue apparently.

  12. Javelin
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    If you bring millions of people into the country from countries where they use less fuel, plastic and consumables then it has a negative impact on the environment.

  13. Kevin
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    Given that there is only one month till the election, I hope you will not mind if I go off-topic or at least raise another one for discussion before voting day. The first job that each candidate is applying for is to become a member of the legislature, with the power to repeal, amend or pass laws that affect our lives, our liberty and our property, and the well-being of our children. Does the Conservative Party believe that there is any need to reform the law as it applies to us in these areas, and, if so, what are the top five items that it has targeted for change?

    Reply Various law changes are proposed on this site, starting with repeal or amendments to taxes. I have set out an agenda for tax reform, constitutional reform, strengthened law on illegal encampments etc

    • Dennis
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

      ‘…I have set out an agenda for tax reform, constitutional reform, strengthened law on illegal encampments etc..’

      Who are you to do this -will anyone take any notice? If so please tell how it is done – thanks.

      Reply I am seeking election to be an MP to influence and vote on these matters!

  14. Dominic
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    The Green agenda is a political agenda. Its aim is simple. It is the absolute political control over how we sustain human life. The building blocks of that system of authoritarian control are slowly being put in place. It starts with an invasion of our personal world using propaganda to warp how we see the world and our role in it. It ends with police officers knocking down your door because you chose to express an opinion that contravenes a set text

    It is a gradual process of indoctrination. You only have to pan back and see it for yourself

    • NickC
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

      Dominic, Are you telling me I can’t actually see carbon dioxide molecules? I now know two people who have been “interviewed” by the police for failing to be politically correct. Yet the police no longer seem to care about real crime. And Remains like it this way.

  15. Stred
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    Prof Kelly has just given his lecture on the GWPF site and it destroys the nonsense of all the main political parties and the extinction loons. His own estimate of the cost of insulation and heatpumps etc for the UK is £2-3 trillion. This is to do what is part of the Labour manifesto and the Climate Change Committee report.

  16. Fred H
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Abandon road tax on cars. Calculate Treasury loss and add it to petrol/diesel litre cost. Make people realise the cost of driving the car. That would also add to the ridiculous haulage miles cost some products incur.

  17. Roger W Carradice
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Sir John
    I am sure all your readers favour fuel efficiency and warm insulated homes. Few will appreciate the virtue signalling of doing away with gas boilers, petrol cars and decarbonising to virtue signal to the green loonies. We need sound policies to ensure that we can run our modern society and the lights will stay on, and the Conservative Party do not have any.

  18. Everhopeful
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    It is just signing up to Agenda 21/30.
    A done deal with the U.N.
    And it ain’t nice fluffy bunny stuff…it is about world governance.
    If any govt were serious about making life better ( which of course they are not!!!) ..there are so many simple things they could have done.
    Like stopping anti social behaviour,fireworks,noise,too much traffic,crime.
    Don’t forget these are the same people who frantically EMBRACED diesel!! ( which as all sensibles knew is a dirty fuel.)
    Oh and beware of low temp washes and insulation….they breed moths, mites and BLACK MOULD.
    AND those firms offering govt help for installing this that and the other…..are lying pests!!

    • Turboterrier
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:43 pm | Permalink


      It is just signing up to Agenda 21/30.,

      Spot on the money, but how many of our politicians understand, know about even less talk about it?

      Up until yesterday I had decided not to vote for the first time ever in my voting life so disgusted with the state of our political system at the moment.

      The changing moment was the tribute to all our servicemen that died in the Falkland campaign on U tube sent to me by a colleague who had also lost someone in that campaign. When I read the ages of the majority of those men it made me weep. They died for what they believed was right, freedom for the Falkland Islands. Flash back to the Sunday at the Cenotaph, if nothing else we owe it to all of them that they have allowed me to even have the vote. The state of the parties at the moment the hardest thing will be not to waste such, IMHO a privilege given by so many to all of us.

      • Simeon
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

        I appreciate what you say, and I entirely agree that it is tragic that the country these brave servicemen died for has come to this. But may I respectfully suggest that voting for any of the main parties is NOT a wasted vote, but in fact CONDONES their behaviour. Your reluctance in voting is not registered, merely the fact that you did, and this will be interpreted as an endorsement of whoever receives your vote. The appalling predicament you are in is that a vote for a party with no prospect of winning is, largely, if not necessarily entirely, a wasted vote, at least in the short term. In conclusion, I would say follow your heart, vote your conscience (or not vote, as the case may be), and in the end, it won’t really matter because it’ll be the LibLabCon, perhaps with a Scottish twist, no matter what.

    • TooleyStu
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

      Done deal with UN, EU and UK.
      Agenda 2030 it is called now I believe.

  19. George Dunnett
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    The best central heating system is free, uses bio mass and requires a 30 minute walk once a day to get it hot…as recommended by all NHS doctors!!

    Try it, it’s amazing!!!

    Spin off benefits include, weight loss, muscle tone, tonnes of additional energy capacity, cognitive boost and adds years to your life!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

      Indeed I often do this but it can wear out your joints so you need early hip and knee ops. Jogging/squash etc. is even worse in this respect.

  20. BJC
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    It’s barmy to always presume that only those on benefits are in need; many are in need simply because they’re on low incomes. Not only can’t they afford to upgrade their own homes to save on running costs, but they’re obliged to pay for the upgrades granted to those on benefits. Good one.

    If insulating older homes truly makes a big difference to running costs and the environment, wouldn’t it be a good investment for government to be making?

  21. David
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

    The position you outline is moderate and sensible. Unless you repeal the Climate Change Act government policy is neither.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

      Milibands moronic climate change act (that nearly every halfwitted MP voted for) and the Paris agreement all need to be abandoned as soon as possible. Subsidies for “renewables” make no sense and encourages much fraud.

  22. Mike Stallard
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:36 am | Permalink

    Yesterday I went by train to the far north – Sheffield to be exact. The country lines were diesel and the express was electric.
    Do I feel guilty?
    Not really. But I shall be very, very cross indeed if the Green Enthusiasts ban oil. That will mean that 55.4% of our power would simply stop working (as of 8.28 a.m.) while only 0.3 and 5.4% of our power would be provided (as of 8.29 a.m.) by solar and wind.
    It was pathetic to see how northern people had invested in arrays of solar panels on their roofs yesterday. For some 8 months of the year, the shiny grey panels produce next to nothing.
    I had a chat with an oil man – while there. (A very senior executive of a large company too.) And he was saying that fracking was something which he does every day in the Middle East with the full approval of the government and there are no ill effects. You need, he said, a 5 for structural damage and fracking is nowhere near that. Also he explained patiently that there is a geological fault all through England which produces natural earth tremors quite regularly – but nothing like a 5.
    So let us get real shall we before the Green Party bans electricity and trains.

    • miami.mode
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      MS, by calling Sheffield the far north, you have a sad lack of understanding of this country.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

        I agree but think its funny.

  23. APL
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    What is the options for constituents in Theresa May’s constituency but to elect a rabid EU maniac, now that the Brexit party won’t stand in that constituency?

    What about Dominic Grieve’s old constituency, they are putting up a candidate equally bad if not worse than Grieve, Joy Morrisey campaigned for Remain – why is she a Conservative candidate?

    This is a stitch up!

    • L Jones
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

      APL – I’m glad that our host allowed your comment through, even though it’s ”off topic”.
      You speak for many of us who feel disenfranchised by the decision of TBP not to contest Tory seats. We all know there are many Tory remainers for whom people will now be almost forced to vote, to avoid the looneys.
      You’re right – it certainly seems like a stitch-up!

      • APL
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

        ”off topic”.

        This is a general election. We should be discussing the things that interest the electorate. Not those things that are convenient for the Political class.

        The trickle of defections, is turning into a stream. It’s starting to look as if about half the Parliamentary Tory party ought, had they had any scruples or morals, to have been sitting on the Lib Dem benches.

        But it rather illustrates a very significant failure of CCO selection committee.

        Does the CCO selection committee conduct any sort of vetting of prospective candidates at all?

        Here’s a tip for John Redwood. Get your party to select conservatives. Just for a change.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

      There is clearly a coordinated effort by vested interests to make sure that there is a majority to enact the final betrayal. I think it would have been wiser for the BXP to just stand candidates in ALL marginal and winnable seats. Yes, there are those that would not have been able to express their preference but, at least we would be looking at a few more BXP MP’s – hopefully.

      • Simeon
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

        Wouldn’t the Brexit party have needed to stand just about everywhere to ensure access to party political broadcasts, etc.? The price in bankrolling candidates would have been more than justified by the opportunity to raise awareness about BJ’s Brexit betrayal.

        By the way, given the way Brexit was handled, and the manner in which the Tory party exposed their true nature to anyone willing to pay attention, this had become so much more than just Brexit. But now, with the Brexit party clearly limiting their ambition to manipulating the Tory party rather than usurping it (and even that pathetically modest ambition is now utterly beyond them), there is no alternative to the establishment.

        Some may suggest UKIP, but, whether deserved or not, that brand is toxic, and it is obvious that factionalism is rife amongst those involved, whether presently or previously. Farage was the one figure with the opportunity to be a rallying point. The operative term being ‘was’. It’s over man. Some sort of structural collapse may precipitate a revolution, but of the nature of that revolution no one can be sure. It might be good. It might be horrific. Ultimately, we are now hostages to fortune, though in the meantime we remain hostages to the establishment.

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

      Nigel Farage has judged that the Brexit Party should not put up a candidate here because Theresa May only just scraped in at the last general election, and wisely he does not want to take the risk of eroding the 26,457 majority she got then so that a Remainer or a Revoker could get elected.

      Moreover some time ago the local UKIP branch decided not to put up a candidate in competition with the expected Brexit Party candidate, and he has left it so late to decide that there will be no Brexit Party candidate that there will be no UKIP candidate either …

      I have to say that UKIP had fewer scruples back in 2005, after I had helped to cut her majority from 11,981 to 3,284 in 2001:


      That was the lowest it has ever been.

  24. Lifelogic
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:30 am | Permalink

    Nick Robinson seemed to be getting very excited about “onanism” in his interview with Michael Gove this morning. Suggesting that the leavers we doing this over Brexit rather than dealing with other issues in typical biased and obnoxious BBC style. Yes another misguided and tedious Oxford PPE plonker.

    Why not ask Gove about his idiotic desire to put VAT on private school fees (making people pay four times over rather than just three) or why the idiot Gove knifed Boris in such an appalling way and forced us to suffer under the dire Theresa May ages. Or why he voted for May’s putrid treaty three times and then for the dire Boris May plus fig leaves on? Or why he takes climate advice from a misguided teenager Greta rather than some sensible engineers or physicist.

    Neither treaty is Brexit.

    Hopefully post the election we will hear no more of all the BBC favourites – Gauke, Hammond, Grieve, Sourbry, Miller, Sandbatch, Hunt, Rudd, Morgan, ClarkeX2, Warsi etc ed I have had more than enough for a lifetime from these tedious and totally disingenuous anti-democrats.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

      Didn’t manage to get into Oxford then, LL?

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff. Rude as usual. I would say LL has far more common sense than all those that went to Oxford put together. His posts are a lot more knowledgeable and logical than any I have read from yourself.

      • steve
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

        Bizarre, a Labour man attempting to lecture others on jealousy.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 7:53 am | Permalink

          Funny, it always seems to be Leave/TBP voters, who say that those who paid attention at school should lose the decent pensions that they earned.

          • NickC
            Posted November 14, 2019 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

            Martin, Funny, I’ve never seen anyone advocate that those who paid attention at school should lose the decent pensions that they earned except Remains like Andy and the far left.

      • Anonymous
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        Cambridge, if I recall.

  25. Original Richard
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Unless our governments halt the high levels of immigration into the UK, the only way they will be able to “protect woods and fields from development” and reduce pollution and CO2 emissions will be through building smaller homes/building more high rise flats and eventually by rationing energy, food and travel.

    • L Jones
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

      ”Protect woods and fields from development” – by using brownfield sites. The developers would have to pay more, of course, for cleaning them up – there’s nothing like nice, clean, level, well-tilled fields to build upon. And the planning decision-makers obviously agree.

    • Mark
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

      Cancelling HS2 has to be on the list.

  26. Iain Moore
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Population is the most critical factor in green/sustainability issues, and the one thing our political classes won’t talk about.

  27. Everhopeful
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    I would also suggest that before launching Hell for Leather into green madness the govt makes certain THAT THINGS WORK.
    Like warning people about flooding for example.
    And making sure that the Probate system works ( computer in meltdown).
    Like having a Police FORCE etc. etc.
    Whole country gone to pot.
    The single good thing that Cameron said ( allegedly) …drop all the green crap.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

      He also said he was a “low tax at heart cast iron Conservative”. Alas he was a wet libdim at best. He increased the green crap, increase taxes, ratted on the IHT promise and ditched his cast iron promise! Then abandoned ship like a spoiled child when he did not get his way over the EU!

  28. graham1946
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Replacing boilers and cars only makes sense if they are at the end of their lifetime. Spending thousands to save a couple of quid makes no sense either in monetary or environmental terms. Anyway who wants to change a working boiler now, when politicians are likely to be ruled by an unqualified schoolgirl and an unwashed rabbble with nothing better to do than stop honest people working and ban them in the next couple of years. It is all a scam to try to get more sales for large corporates and makes little sense for the ordinary person.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

      Exactly right. The new ones are more complex and often cost far more to maintain too using more energy in the van of the maintenance man (I have never seen a gas boiler repair woman but I assume there are some).

      • Anonymous
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

        I am on good terms with my local gas boiler repair woman who now runs a plumbing supplies shop.

        Excellent advice and help always. And always gives my dog a biscuit.

        (I suspect it’s my dog who keeps on ****ing up my central heating system.)

    • Al
      Posted November 14, 2019 at 10:56 am | Permalink

      There’s another concern about smart meters: they exist so that at times of high demand electricity can be rationed, by choking supply to homes.

      The British government’s green plan will force everyone on to electric heating.

      At times of high demand like cold weather, how many users will risk having their heating turned down or off due to this throttling? It would be a particular problem for the elderly and infirm, who are already hit by fuel taxes, and if it occurs during night and sleep when the slow cooling isn’t noticed, it could be easily fatal if alternative methods of heating e.g. gas or wood burning stove are not available.

  29. Mark
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:39 am | Permalink

    Investment in energy saving needs to be like any other kind of investment. It needs to pay for itself, and offer a positive return. Governments and Greens do not get a free pass on this. I calculated from the information in the Grenfell Tower refurbishment planning application that the insulation would have taken over 200 years to pay for itself before the cost of financing: such green zealotry is crazy, never mind the safety issues.

    I would like to see a law that government will only help with the costs of energy saving projects that achieve a simple payback of seven years or less, so that the effort is worthwhile and concentrated on effective solutions, not green vanity.

    • Turboterrier
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:14 pm | Permalink


      I would like to see a law that government will only help with the costs of energy saving projects that achieve a simple payback of seven years or less, so that the effort is worthwhile and concentrated on effective solutions, not green vanity.

      Totally correct. The money that has been wasted for such little results is scandalous.
      The good old energy bill payer has been taken to the cleaners.

  30. glen cullen
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:46 am | Permalink

    The so called green agenda is an agenda for middleclass hippies, the media and political lobbyists

    Do not give any tax advantage to any green project but allow market forces to dictate whether the people support the green agenda or not. The customer, on a level market place, should make the choice not government

  31. Dennisa
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    “We need to protect woods and fields from development where possible, and make sure we look after the beauty of the landscape and the countryside beyond our cities and towns.”

    Indeed. Therefore we need to walk away from the foolish Climate Change Act and stop littering our landscapes and seascapes with ever more monstrous wind turbines and covering large acreages of farmland with solar panels, destroying habitat.

    Zero “Carbon” is a nonsense, it cannot be, (even the term is a false one, as it is supposedly carbon dioxide that is cooking the planet, although it seems to have failed for the last 20 years).

    The UK is responsible for slightly over 1% of global emissions, Asia 49%, with China at 28% and rising, year on year. They are laughing at us as we destroy what industry we have left with high energy prices.

    Against all this, the raison d’être for it is a false one. There is no climate crisis, there will be no climate crisis. UN “predictions” are computer model outputs with little predictive skill and with large uncertaintities that make them useless for sensible policy advice.

    From Met Office figures, there has been no increase in temperature in the Central England Temperature Record (CET) for the last 30 years. The Met Office does not publicise this data, although it is publicly available. It prefers to publish anomalies against the period 1961-90, which had some of the coldest years in the 20th century, guaranteed to produce positive anomalies to demonstrate “warming”.

    We are leading no-one, we are self-flagellating so that politicians can grandstand on the world stage. We will suffer immense upheaval, massive waste of money, and a more fragile grid. The more renewables that are added, the more unstable it becomes.

    It is bizarre that a small group of people, the Climate Change Committee, whose interests and employment lie with the policies they are recommending, should determine our future energy policy, with barely any Parliamentary scrutiny. Unlike Brexit, I never voted for this.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      Dennisa, oh God. you are so right. Scotland is full of wind turbines and the south full of housing and solar panels. Protect our field and woodlands my bum!! All this green crap is doing more harm than good. I can’t believe what idiots we have in power and waiting in the wings right now.

    • TooleyStu
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      Superbly written.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

      I actually like wind turbines. They are majestic but in a Telly Tubby sort of way, instead of Windy Miller.

  32. ukretired123
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Unfortunately whilst green ideas are ideal their implementation in the real world is often counterproductive.
    E.g Bristol Labour Mayor wanting no diesels in the centre – local SME firms realise it will put them out of business and drive up costs. The latest generation of diesels are not prioritised over old oil burners. As for extinction rebellion allowed to disrupt London blanket wide by judges shows the gulf between their thinking and those who inhabit the real world of work. Please protest in China first and then may achieve a result worldwide.

    • steve
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:29 pm | Permalink


      “E.g Bristol Labour Mayor wanting no diesels in the centre”

      Well he’d better hope he doesn’t have a coronary in the city centre, cos if the ambulance is a diesel he’s screwed.

  33. Denis Cooper
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink

    Off topic, I’ve just watched Boris Johnson’s election video and unfortunately what he misses out about his “fantastic” Brexit deal is that it has the potential to led to the break up of the UK, and regrettably almost half of the population of Great Britain would not care that much if Northern Ireland did split off and join with the Republic in a united Ireland:


    And this is because Theresa May refused to consider a rational solution for the largely invented problem of the Irish land border, and allowed an apparently insurmountable mountain to be built of a mountain; and, no, I do not accept the explanation offered by that weasel David Lidington:


    “David Lidington says it was the threat of terrorism that put Theresa May off a no-deal Brexit”

    • Denis Cooper
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 11:04 am | Permalink

      The mountain was of course built out of a molehill.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

      The main thing he missed out is that it is simply not Brexit and it ties our hands hugely for the later trade negotiations. Plus why are we paying anything for it before we even agree the trade parts?

  34. BillM
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Surely, it all boils down to costs, for most households in the country, rather than principle?
    The intense focus on all things green is providing the opportunity for the suppliers to make more profit from them. We should be aware of this when we shop.
    That we are taxed on our energy supplies is outrageous but while under EU jurisdiction we cannot stop it. The series of indirect taxes and higher prices placed upon many domestic items penalises the less well off more than any other class and I fear too many manufacturers are utilising “Green” credentials as the driving force for them.
    The ‘Green crusade’ is becoming more a religion than a common sense approach to daily life in the UK. For sanity’s sake and for prudence in the home budget, it is time this “religion” was addressed with a more rational approach.

  35. Atlas
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    Agreed John, as long as you’ve not fallen for some of the more crack-pot ideas of the ‘zero carbon’ religion – for example, stopping natural gas being used for domestic central heating.

    By the way, am I the last person in the world who would still like an independent check on all the global warming predictions? I say ‘independent’ to mean “does not have a vested interest in keeping the research grants coming in, or have a University Department to keep funded, by making apocalyptic claims”.

    • cornishstu
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      There are plenty of scientists and papers contradicting the man made global warming hypothesis using real life data as opposed to models produced using data tweaked to conform to the consensus and produce the desired results. The problem is they a suppressed by the likes of the BBC et al.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

        Cornishstu. Too right about the BBC. When Johnny Ball and David Bellamy had the audacity to say that man was not responsible for climate change and tried to show the true stats the BBC sacked them and refused to give them air time anymore. Brainwashing at the highest level. All we get now is Attenborough going on. While his programmes are very good I switch off when I hear the words climate change and man.

      • miami.mode
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

        stu, perhaps they should be asked what caused climate change for the approximate 4+ billion years prior to man arriving.

  36. Mitchel
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    If ESG criteria are adopted by/forced on financiers and fund managers only green-approved companies will become investible if they require external finance.

  37. Rule Britannia
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    All those things seem sensible, while skirting around the controversial issues related to CO2, global warming and other lefty nonsense.

    Reducing food miles is only useful if you wish to support your own economy and you have limited fuel (as a planet). If it turns out that it’s cheaper to buy from distant lands then… it’s a much more tricky calculation.

    Please teach your party – or should I say “remind” your party of what they should have paid attention to in secondary school science – Archimedes’ Principle. It tells us very clearly and very simply why floating ice will not affect sea levels one iota if it melts.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

      Some other things to teach them at school:-

      The long term history of the Earth’s climate and how it always has “changed” as indeed have sea levels just to put things in perspective.
      The fact that atmospheric CO2 concentrations largely follow temperature changes rather than cause them and why this is.
      That the climate is a chaotic system and that millions of inputs affect it and most are not know or are simply unknowable. CO2 is just one of them. Even if we knew all of them them we still could not predict the climate for 100 years.
      Someone who cannot tell you the climate for next month is rather unlikely to be able to tell you what it will be in 100 years.
      Atmospheric CO2 concentration are not a world temperature thermostat control system.
      That we cannot even predict the sun’s activity or volcanic activity reliably.
      That the BBC talks complete driven in general staffed as it is by luvvies and usually innumerate art graduates.

      A couple of other things that would be especially useful for all the daft art graduates and green energy quacks that pretend to be renewable energy and climate charge experts on BBC and other TV, radio and other media:-

      1. A Gigawatt is not a measure of energy it is a unit of power! Energy is measure in KWHours or Joules. If you say “this windfarm generate 3 Gigawatts of energy” you are showing you do anything about what you are saying.
      2. Positive feedback (in the engineering sense) is not the same as positive feedback on a TV report. It is not usually a good thing look it up!

      Then these arty PR dopes might not make such complete and utter idiots of themselves when they pretend to be technical.

      How to cook, that they have never has it so good and how compound interest works would be rather good for most school kids too.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

      ‘floating ice’ will not but ice above the surface melting WILL. Glaciers?

  38. Chris
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

    Excellent article by Delingpole on Professor Kelly, engineering professor, Cambridge and his stinging rebuke to the green energy targets – would need a herd of unicorns:

    Delingpole: Cambridge Prof – UK’s Green Energy Targets Require ‘Herds of Unicorns’

    “The green energy targets being pursued by Britain’s main political parties are so impossibly deluded, fantastical and overambitious that they could only be achievable with the intervention of herds of magical unicorns.
    So says Cambridge engineering professor Michael Kelly in a stinging rebuke to the Net Zero policies currently being championed by Boris Johnson and his rivals in their desperate race to the green bottom. The Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats are all committed to carbon emissions reduction targets which they cannot hope to attain and which will be hugely damaging both to Britain’s prosperity and freedoms. …” Breitbart.

    See also article on Conservative Woman by Andrew Montford which gives link to lecture given by Prof Kelly.

    • Money Lender
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

      You don’t need all that higher learning.
      It is unlikely we can knock down and rebuild everything from when the Romans invaded England and not increase Council Tax by at least a penny in the short term.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

      Indeed, most sensible engineers and physicist know it is all exaggerated and political drivel & essentially scam against tax and bill payers.

      As indeed does Corbyn’s brighter brother Piers. Physics (1st) at Imperial College and a masters at Queen Mary. He is very sound on the climate issue. Rather less sound on economics – he even wants his brother to be elected.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 6:32 am | Permalink

        But Gove prefers to take advice from 16 year old religious figures like St. Greta Thunberg. Gove clearly likes unicorns, he is after all an Oxford English Graduate so he will not know the first thing about energy, the numbers, energy economics or the climate.

        Unicorns make good stories, virtue signal and nice photo ops he will be thinking.

  39. Anonymous
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    What is really happening is a cultural and economic assault on British people. Can you not see this, John ?

    Political Correctness = Cultural Assault

    Greenism = Economic Assault

    • Prigger
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      And how should such be sentenced?

      • steve
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:24 pm | Permalink


        Not entirely sure, but sentencing is justified and should involve humiliation and life long social banishment.

    • outsider
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

      Yes Anon. If the true object were to slash CO2 emissions, the most sensible and practical approach would be to concentrate first on “greening” the public sector over the next 15 years: starting with government and local authority buildings, hospitals, police cars, ambulances, contractors’ vehicles and the rail network, only 42 per cent of which is currently electrified, I note that several rail electrification schemes have been cancelled since 2015 on economic grounds. Such “economic” tests are not applied to measures imposed on ordinary families.
      The state would also need to commission and pay for an “uneconomic” new fleet of low-waste atomic power stations that could accommodate decarbonization of business and family life in the second phase. I shall see what he manifestos say.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 6:40 am | Permalink

        Electric cars save no CO2 at all unless you generate all the electricity from Nuclear – even then after the build of the vehicles they do not save much. But the good new is there is no need to reduce CO2 at all – if you understand at real climate science. Ask Corbyn’s physicist brother he is exactly right. The climate sensitivity to CO2 has been hugely exaggerated.

        (Wind and Solar just cannot supply sufficient and they are not that low carbon anyway when construction and maintenance energy use is considered).

      • Stred
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

        All parties except Ukip follow the advice of the CCC which is to close existing nuclear stations within ten years leaving only Hinckley Point and Sizewell. We will rely on wind and imported gas with reforming to hydrogen and carbon capture. This will reply on untested technology and they think this will cost very little. The taxpayer and customers are expected to pay for this mad scheme.

  40. Dennis
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 12:55 pm | Permalink

    ‘Cutting the future fuel bill is a good idea.’ Not for the supply companies which will just increase prices so perhaps reducing consumption to being cold levels.

    ‘…..protect woods and fields from development where possible,..’ where possible, yes, perhaps not possible re increase of population.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      Forests do not capture carbon really (unless you chop the trees down and bury the wood then let new ones grow). A typical forest is in equilibrium decaying wood and leaves giving off methane/c02 etc. and the trees taking Co2 in at about the same rate.

      • Dark shade of green
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

        Yes I heard something like that too. The myth of rain forests producing oxygen net was debunked many decades ago. This green lot are just digging up and repeating old science of the 1960s when genuine people fought and won the Green revolution. We were called ecologists by exacting and serious people. It really wasn’t a political issue and most people agreed and did very much about it. The greenies are late to the party and their older leaders are just using them to gain political position. It’s a crying shame using youth in such a way just because you can’t get on politically in the main parties.No morals.No competition. Cowardly.

        • Stred
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:08 am | Permalink

          All parties except Ukip follow the advice of the CCC which is to close existing nuclear stations within ten years leaving only Hinckley Point and Sizewell. We will rely on wind and imported gas with reforming to hydrogen and carbon capture. This will reply on untested technology and they think this will cost very little. The taxpayer and customers are expected to pay for this mad scheme..

    • steve
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:17 pm | Permalink


      This works:

      Solid fuel Rayburn (has an oven, hob, will do ten rads and provide ample heat throughout the night)

      2Kw solar array and inverter, – will run rechargeable domestic appliances and most 13A stuff no problem.

      That’s what I have, and the gas & electric are on key meters, so no sneaky direct debits. I get cooking, heating, hot water, lighting and domestic appliances without any dependence on energy suppliers.

      They could cut their services tomorrow it wouldn’t make any difference.

      • Midnight exerciser
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

        …ample heat throughout the night)… Do you sleep walk?
        No blankets? Don’t your windows shut?

        • steve
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

          Midnight ‘exerciser’


      • Dennis
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

        Steve – strange you got no comments about this even to ask about details.

        No good for me as I’ll be dead fairly soon. I can’t make up my mind whether that will be good or not. Will I see Brexit or not? Boris says he will not extend beyond 2020, is it? Not if Gina Miller has anything to do with it.

        • steve
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:55 pm | Permalink


          I’ve been asked before about my set up.

          I always have to stress that lifestyle is a big factor. For example I no longer have kids living here, I live on my own.

          I have gas supply but hardly ever use it, since my hot water and heating come from the Rayburn.

          I do use ‘some’ mains electric now and then but that is the heavy current stuff, washing machine and the like.

          Lighting, TV, cordless appliances, phone and internet etc come off the inverter.

          A 2kW inverter is fine if you accept limitations and change to LED lighting, and change to cordless appliances everywhere possible.

          But like I say it depends on lifestyle. Works well for me because I live on my own, but 2 kW certainly wouldn’t cope with a family house.

  41. miami.mode
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

    …….grant systems to allow people on qualifying benefits to insulate their homes (etc)………..

    Surely the majority of people on such benefits will be in social housing, so should the grants be available to the social landlord thus making it cheaper for the tenant to live?

    Never see very much on geothermal heating yet I remember learning many years ago at school how hot the ground below Cornwall is at reasonable depths.

    • Mark
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

      There is a geothermal project in Cornwall at the moment. At least, I don’t think that the government has banned fracking for it. They have planning permission to create tremors up to ML 4.0, ten times more energetic than anything seen at Preston New Road.

      • Old green grown up
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

        What about the natural carcinogenic radiation from the granite beneath which I haven’t heard spoken about for ages now. 1970s?

  42. Wil Pretty
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    For the planet to be truly sustainable, all artifacts need to be made out of air, water, or living organisms. This limits us to the elements – oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen and carbon, and thier combinations.
    Items that would comply with this would be materials like wood, carbon fibre, cotton, wool and plastics, and energy sources like coal, oil, gas and wood.
    It could be done, but we would need a little bit of metal and ceramics to make our electronic gadgets.

  43. Earley Riser
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

    Elon Musk has announced that the Tesla European factory will be built near Berlin rather than in the UK because of Brexit.

    • Me
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

      Good. We can build our own White Elephants

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

        Indeed HS2 for example. At least they cancelled the bonkers Swansea “lagoon”.

        • Ed M
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

          Whilst we’re debating HS2, Musk is developing trains that can travel at 700 miles per hour (along with Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin). Some of Musk’s ambitions for technology will fail – but others succeed, big time.

          Instead of just debating HS2, we should be debating how to turn the UK into a world centre for High Tech / Digital.

      • Simeon
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

        And no doubt we will.

      • Ed M
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

        Musk is a smart entrepreneur. He’s only 48 and worth 24 billion dollars. He was main founder of PayPal. He’s developing many different futuristic technologies at moment (including hyperlooping with Sir Richard Branon’s Virgin) – some will fail and others succeed, big time.

        My interest in Musk and entrepreneurs like him isn’t whether we’re in or out of the EU, but purely in regards to the HUGE benefits of the High Tech / Digital Sector to the UK economy.

    • steve
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

      Early Riser

      “Elon Musk has announced that the Tesla European factory will be built near Berlin rather than in the UK because of Brexit.”

      Elon Musk is welcome to do that. Though Brexit has little if anything to do with his decision. It’s all about cheap labour and building stuff as cheaply as possible, and selling it as expensive as possible, which is the absolute scam behind all electric cars and nothing whatsoever to do with zero emissions.

      If he really bases his decision on Brexit then fine, he’s interfering where he shouldn’t and it would be a simple matter to retaliate by banning his products in this country. We don’t need him or his virtue signalling gimmicks.

      So no love lost as far as I’m concerned.

      • Dennis
        Posted November 13, 2019 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

        There’s cheap labor in Berlin? Cheaper than China or Vietnam – well things are really changing.

      • Ed M
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

        ‘It’s all about cheap labour and building stuff as cheaply as possible’

        – Not entirely.

        Companies are moving to Berlin for many important infrastructure reasons including a good cultural ‘vibe’. Which is why government has to support infrastructure, culture and green issues to attract the high tech and digital companies of the future.

        • Ed M
          Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

          Don’t forget, many professional people will only go to live in a certain place because they like it. Money is important. But other things too. Which is why London has such a big advantage over Frankfurt when it comes to Finance. Some / many people in finance want money but also to live and work in a place that is fun to be in and a good place to bring up their family. For some / many, Frankfurt is just too boring. Really. It’s as pedestrian as that.

          However, Berlin has a lot going for it in terms of becoming a huge High Tech / Digital Hub in Europe – as its got good infrastructure / vibe etc .. The kind of place where lots of professionals in this sector want to work and live. This is something the UK governments needs to be aware of if it wants to attract more High Tech / Digital companies to the UK.

      • Ed M
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 5:15 pm | Permalink


        ‘and it would be a simple matter to retaliate by banning his products in this country’

        – We live in a free-market economy. This is NOT North Korea ..

        ‘We don’t need him’ – actually we do need him and people like him. They provide great, high skilled jobs.

        ‘or his virtue signalling gimmicks’ – the man is no virtue-signaller. He’s a serious and highly successful businessman, having made millions as a young man, as one of main founders of PayPal – but in other things since.

        And Sir Richard Branson certainly takes him seriously as the two work together over hyperlooping (whether that works or not is another matter ..).

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

      Nor to be built in France, Holland, Italy, Sweden…

      • dixie
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 8:51 am | Permalink

        I thought it a bit odd to choose Germany. The point of the US gigafactory is it uses a solar array to power it, so in that context I would have thought France or Spain would be more logical.

        If you do choose northern Europe then Norway makes better sense with ready access to hydro power, and the largest EV base in Europe.

        So clearly it is a political decision and “Brexit” merely an excuse. Or is the EU going to impose excessive bans and tariffs on Hyundai, Kia and the other car and EV manufacturers.

        Surely not, the EU is the beacon of free trade.

    • Andrew S`
      Posted November 14, 2019 at 12:13 am | Permalink

      Tesla was hardly likely to build a car plant here in the UK with Corbynistas lurking ready to trash the plan. Tesla presents a huge threat to the german auto industry, so placing Gigafactory Europe there helps move that industry to fully embrace EV.
      The sham parliament we finally got rid of here in the UK was an international disgrace and embarrassment. Conservatives put T May in place (following Gove’s backstabbing of Boris), she had a commons majority and blew it. Why would Tesla come to UK managed by incompetents and with marxists waiting to take over?

  44. Iain Gill
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

    I smiled to see you endorse things here I have said to you in the past when you were of the opposite opinion.

    I guess at least its nice that at least one politician is listening.

  45. Polly
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink


    So do you think British voters should know more about the kind of people who are, according to the ”Telegraph”, at the center of the Remain campaign, who their friends are and what they have been up to… or should voters be left in blissful ignorance about it all ?

    How can voters make an informed choice about the future of Britain if someone doesn’t give them the background scenario ?


    Reply Yes of course, but this is not the site to do what you want to do. I still advise you research it well and provide the evidence.

    • steve
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:04 pm | Permalink


      “So do you think British voters should know more about the kind of people who are, according to the ”Telegraph”, at the center of the Remain campaign? ”

      To be honest Polly the most of us already know, which is why there’s a bad moon on the rise.

      • Polly
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

        Unfortunately I don’t think you have the full picture !


    • NickC
      Posted November 14, 2019 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

      Polly, Why should “someone” “give” you the background scenario? Why don’t you find out for yourself?

      • Polly
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

        I did… and the background scenario isn’t suitable for publication.


        ”I’m afraid I couldn’t possibly comment” !


  46. The Prangwizard
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

    It’s all rather sickening to find so many politicians using the language of the green fanatics howver modestly. Only the ‘greens’ benefit. Appeasing them only encourages yet more outrageous claims and demands. Most sensible people can see the benefits of energy and wildlife conservation but it should not be driven by a dangerous authoritarian idelogy.

    • Chris
      Posted November 13, 2019 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

      Powerful interest groups such as the Greens are able to lobby the European Commission when laws are being discussed and drafted in Committee stage in order to get their voices/viewpoint reflected in the subsequent legislation. However, the irony is that the EU gives substantial grants to such lobby groups which are used precisely to promote their point of view amongst the public and to pressure the Commission.

      Money buys influence and pressure groups can’t mount campaigns without it.
      So, it really is self fulfilling. The EU ensures intentionally or otherwise through its selective grant funding that certain interest groups have a disproportionately stronger say than others in their legislation.

      • Get set...
        Posted November 14, 2019 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

        Europe is the font of new-old ideas. It has always meant instability then poverty then picking on parts of their populations to deport or annihilate.
        Germany is short of someone to pick on after last time . But it is remedying the situation. We shall expect and ready or ships and our other toys, this time in advance if we can stop the Corbynistas from wasting our toys and not buying new ones , just playing about, you see.

  47. steve
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 9:00 pm | Permalink


    Appeasement is certainly how it looks, but I suspect it’s daft attempts to pinch votes. Cameron used a tactic like this by endorsing the 2016 referendum to try to take the wind out of UKIP sails. Were there no UKIP, there would have been no referendum.

    Similar with this green crap. But what Boris fails to realise is that we don’t buy into it in the first place, so he’s wasting his time.

    In fact by forcing green policies upon us he’s more likely to find himself losing votes.

    He needs to understand….zero carbon crap is what he should be selling to China and India, not us.

  48. Dennis
    Posted November 13, 2019 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

    Don’y forget to listen to Caroline Lucas tomorrow night on LBC from 8-9pm! Turn off your heating during, you’ll not need it!

    • Eh?
      Posted November 14, 2019 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

      Who is she?

  49. ferdinand
    Posted November 14, 2019 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

    Heat saving features are fine in newish houses but our cottage was built in 1412. Listed buildings are not allowed many heat saving features, and as a result our heating bills are markedly above the norm even though we have the latest oil boiler ( no gas nearby)

    • Yorkie
      Posted November 14, 2019 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

      So it wasn’t built by a Council contractor then? You’re lucky!

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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