Why did Labour lose?

I rarely write about the Opposition parties, preferring to concentrate on how government can do better.

We will, however, hear a lot about Labour’s future as they embark on choosing a new leader. Our constitution thrives best with a strong Opposition that looks like a government in waiting, so what Labour does will matter. For this reason I am interested in your thoughts on what they might  do next. It was interesting that the biggest array of freebies ever offered in an election did not tease out  more supporters.

Their first self appointed task is to work out why they lost so many seats in 2019. They have been all but eliminated in Scotland where they used to be dominant, have been largely excluded from the South outside London and lost many seats in old heartlands in the North and Midlands. They are an urban party with a strong dependence on the capital.

The last election was two elections at the same time. There was a Leave/Remain battle. The Lib Dems tried to make it an election to revoke our departure, and the Conservatives stressed the need to get Brexit done. Labour was scarcely part of this contest, as they sought to present a range of Remain tilted opinions as a new policy whilst saying the were also a home for Leave voters. Their spokesmen and women were unconvincing on the biggest issue of the day. Anyone desperate to keep us in the EU would vote Lib Dem and anyone keen to leave would vote Conservative.

The second election was about economic and social policy. Labour led this debate with a comprehensive offer of much more state control and “free” goods and services for people, against a Conservative targeted offer of spending increases on the NHS, schools and police. Some in  Labour claim to have “won” this battle of ideas, yet the polling evidence suggests otherwise.

Those who think Labour’s twin problems were Brexit and the personality and past record of their Leader cling to the hope that otherwise their ideas were popular. Instead the more free offers Labour launched, the more people felt their policy was unaffordable. The  answer that only the rich would pay did not add up, and was contradicted by their Manifesto itself with the ending of the marriage allowance.

It appears the voters rejected not just Labour’s Brexit stance but also their economic offer. People remembered what happened with past Labour governments spending and nationalising  too much. Tomorrow I will look at what they could or might do next.

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196 Comments

  1. Peter Wood
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    Good Morning,

    As an aid to answering this question, I’d like to see a ‘lie bar chart’; displaying the lies, as adjudicated by an independent trustworthy body, told by each Party from the date for the GE was announced.

    The Boris lies were very quickly jumped on and he was made to look foolish; did he learn the lesson? Labour’s lies just got more ridiculous as time went on, so perhaps it was the ‘lie quotient’ that decided it….

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:22 am | Permalink

      Ever heard of a pie chart, Peter?

      Well, the one for why Labour lost would probably have a number of segments. If you took away any one, then they might have won.

      Would you like to provide evidence as to which would be the largest?

      Now, the one as to why the Tories won would be the more interesting I think, and what it might say about a swathe of the English electorate.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

        and what it might say about a swathe of the English electorate

        I hope you and similar pious, self-righteous, ostentatious worthies like yourself have to look defeat in the face for a prolonged period. The soul searching and self pity may be good for you but it will likely always be someone else’s fault. Like Lady Nugee, you are not even deserving of my contempt.

        Never underestimate the power of aspiration. Charity begins at home.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

          Well, what do you think that it says?

          That’s interesting, because I didn’t go further.

          I don’t claim to know what it does say, but you seem to have a clearer idea, so please tell us.

    • Robert mcdonald
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

      Boris lies ? The bus I presume is your idea of a Boris lie, even though that was tested in court and found to be a truth. It is arguable if labour actually lied, as it is unknown what policy their hierarchy stood on .. how can you lie when you don’t make testable statements ?

      • Peter Wood
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

        No, I was quite relaxed about the bus. I said from the date the GE was announced, so that would be 40 NEW hospitals, 50,000 NEW nurses…
        For Labour it would be misrepresenting a document to ‘sell off the NHS to Mr Trump’ or suchlike.

        What we really need is better journalists/news outlets who really check politicians statements when they are made, and call the perpetrators out.

      • Chris S
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

        Here’s a Labour lie for you :

        McDonnell claimed that families would be £6,500 pa under his economic policies. The BBC, no less, investigated this claim and found it would only apply to a family with two children under ten and both parents having expensive railway season tickets.

        The BBC’s conclusion was that the savings would apply to a tiny fraction of 1% of families in the UK.

        If that’s not a lie, I’m not sure what is!

  2. Mark B
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:00 am | Permalink

    Good morning – again.

    I rarely write about the Opposition parties . . .

    Pardon me but you spent virtually the whole election talking about Labour’s policies.

    There were many reasons why Labour lost. But the one I think stands head and shoulders above the rest, is that Labour took their voter base in the North for granted. It was those Labour heartlands that took the brunt of New Labour, and latterly Conservative policies of MASS IMMIGRATION, under investment, pro-EU damaging laws etc. Much like on the continent it seemed no matter who you voted for your got the same. People voted BREXIT for change. If you voted to Leave and one party was not going to do that, it did not matter what else was on offer it was largely unappealing.

    The big question though, why did so many vote Conservative, and not the BREXIT Party ?

    • Shirley
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      They didn’t vote for the Brexit Party because of FPTP. The only parties that had a realistic chance of winning were the Tories and Labour.

      • UK Qanon
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

        SHIRLEY,
        ABSOLUTELY 100% CORRECT. The voting system has to change – SNP for example and the number of seats?

        • rose
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

          The boundaries must change, not FPTP. Without FPTP we would never have got the referendum, or Brexit. Farage might have had some seats in Parliament but nowhere near enough to do anything.

          PR, what they have on the Continent, is what you have if you want to maintain the status quo.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      Good morning,

      Your analysis is surely correct. The Tory strategy was scaremongering and outright lies. Our kind host was, sad to say, doing his bit.

      As you say, so many people voted Leave expecting change. The Tory party will not deliver. Will The People notice? Will They care?

      At this point, what difference does any of this make anyway? At the next GE, the two choices on offer will be more more of the old boss, or a new boss, who of course is the same as the old boss. If The People want real change, They will have to look beyond the legacy parties.

      • Mark B
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

        A complaint media will assist in the deception.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

          Not that I’m optimistic, but increasingly the MSM is being displaced – though the malign influence it has is still far too great.

    • agricola
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      To your last question , it was the politics of the possible. Nigel Farage realised that the only way to achieve his goal was to minimise the obstacles in the way of a Boris led Conservative Party. This is what he did at great self sacrifice. Time will be the arbiter of such selflessness. I just hope he gets a knighthood in the New Years Honours List. No one could be more deserving.

      • Mark B
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

        He will not get a Knighthood and his tactics were, in my opinion, wrong. He should have gone after Remain politicians who could have been dethroned and left the Leave ones like Dennis Skinner. He gave the Tories a free pass on +300 seats and, anointed them as the party for BREXIT.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

        Agricola, He may deserve it but I will be amazed if he gets it.

        • rose
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 11:32 pm | Permalink

          He won’t get anything, because the powers that be would judge it divisive, not understanding that not giving him anything is also divisive.

          Really divisive people are going to get honours, people who preach hatred of a fashionable kind, who come from fashionable groups.

    • Jasper
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:34 am | Permalink

      Simple answer is we brexit party members ‘bottled it’. I joined the Brexit party as soon as it was launched as a protest against the Conservatives and all parties not going to honour the referendum result, I wanted my voice to be heard and Nigel gave me that ability (for which I am extremely grateful) – I was proud to give them my vote in the European elections. In the recent GE I was not offered a BP candidate as we are a strong conservative constituency in Cheshire but I am not sure I would have voted for them anyway as Boris was pretty clear that Brexit would be done, so I would not have wanted to split the vote just in case. If the Conservatives sell us out I believe they will feel it in any future GE, Boris has a lot of work to do to keep his promises but those promises he must keep otherwise the Conservatives will be finished!

      • Mark B
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

        It will not matter what happens to the Tories after the final betrayal. We will still be in the EU, just without any formal representation.

      • jerry
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

        @Jasper; “Boris has a lot of work to do to keep his promises but those promises he must keep otherwise the Conservatives will be finished!”

        TBP is the party that’s finished (Farage has acknowledged this), the Tory majority doesn’t come from ex-Tory supporters being compliant with their TBX HQ voting instruction but from Brexit supporting Labour voters, if Boris doesn’t “keep his promises” [1] the vast majority of voters who have lent him the best part of his 80 seat majority will likely return to the Labour party.

        [1] which go well beyond just “Getting Brexit done”

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

        Pride Comes Before A Fall.

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

      I think the answer to your question is contained in the paragraphs before it.
      NFs early proposed tactics would have split the leave vote badly, defeating the object of the exercise.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

      Mark B. Why did they vote Conservative and not BP? Because the BP option was taken off the table in many areas including mine. We weren’t left with any choice if we wanted to respect democracy of a sort. Still not what we voted for in the referendum by a mile. Just a hash up. How any of the 3 main parties can say they are democratic beats me.

  3. Andy
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    What is clear – and what should concern Conservatives – is that there is now a significant centre left majority in this country. Even with virtually all of the old UKIP vote behind you and adding in the DUP you couldn’t get more than 47% of the vote. The right’s share has been falling routinely over recent elections and you are now a minority – and a shrinking one at that.

    This was not a referendum. Had it been ‘Leave’ would have lost. But obviously this will not stop Conservatives claiming a popular mandate for Johnson’s Brexit which is simply not there.

    All that said Labour has majorly lost its way. Corbyn is the worst leader of a main party since Duncan Smith. . The Labour front bench is beyond weak. A collection of hapless non-entities. Their best people – Hilary Benn, Dan Jarvis, Yvette Cooper consigned to the backbenches escape the awfulness of the leader. The party is riven the antisemitism as has been taken over by an extremist cabal.

    Much of this also applies to the current Conservative Party too – it is just marginally less bad than Labour at the moment and our antiquated electoral system means the alternatives – Lib Dem, Greens, Farage – cannot win.

    But change is coming. The young are overwhelmingly outraged by Brexit, the failure of the Tory elite to tackle climate change and the fact that they are locked out of democratic process. A system which locks out the young in favour of the old is one that has had its day.

    So I suspect you will see a major realignment on the left. Hopefully a sensible Labour leader who will work with the Lib Dems, Greens, Plaid and maybe even the SNP to win power for a rainbow coalition which will then change the voting system. I reckon we have two or three FPTP elections left at most.

    Some of Labour’s individual policies were popular – I hope it doesn’t ditch all of them. But together they were an incoherent mess. I hope Labour now pick Jess Phillips because she will connect with voters. She will majorly show-up Johnson for the fraud he is.. A down-to-earth woman from Birmingham with a strong sense of social justice versus an entitled Eton cheat. There will be no contest.

    • mickc
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      The mandate for Brexit was given by the Referendum. Leave won.

      The mandate to carry it out has just been given by the General Election result. A win for a Party and Leader whose was “get Brexit done”.

      There is no centre left majority at all. Everyone knows how the system works; it was supported in a, yes, referendum!

      As with Brexit, all the flummery about “popular majority” is, as with Brexit, just an attempt to overturn the result of that referendum.

      Johnson should get on with the boundary changes to make constituencies more equal in population; let’s see about centre left majority after that.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      You really don’t get it. ‘Austerity’ aside, which, by the way, is a phenomenon found well beyond these shores, the Tories have been centre left this past decade. This ‘new’ government promises to be even more left.

      Your partisan bias prevents you from seeing that the agenda you call for has been consistently implemented for more than two decades. It’s rubbish, isn’t it?

      *’Austerity’ was a response to a serious economic shock. Meanwhile, taxes and government borrowing and spending have all gone up.

    • Richard1
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      You’ve been polishing the chips on both your shoulders. What the election showed is people don’t like identity politics, couldn’t care less whether the PM comes from birmingham or went to Eton, but do mind what the policies are. People recoiled from Antisemitism and the thuggery of momentum activists at a local level. Your likening of this to the Conservative party is absurd.

      We had a referendum on the voting system a few years ago and a large majority voted to keep the current system. Though of course we need to equalise constituencies.

      The onus is indeed now on the govt to make Brexit a success. If in 5 or more like 10 years people think it isn’t, and if the EU – with its likely further political and economic integration – is perceived to be a success (meaning it’s delivering prosperity and stability – lacking at the moment), then of course there will be pressure to rejoin. That pressure will be healthy and will make for sensible policies.

    • GetBrexitDoneBoris
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink

      Quite a desperate fantasy there…but unrealistic dreams are all that are left now…for the Left.

      Jess Philips…An SJW…just what Labour needs.

      Labour face at least 10 years in the Wilderness.

      Delicious!

    • Jasper
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      Andy, I could take exception with your view on the result of the GE but it’s Christmas and there should be goodwill to all men. However, I really do not understand why you say the young are outraged by Brexit, that is such a sweeping generalisation- as a fact I have two boys aged 19 and 20, both are proud to be brexiteers! Just so you also know both sets of grandparents in our family voted to remain- so the ‘myth’ that oldies robbed the young is just that a myth!! I also have a number of elderly clients and nearly all voted remain, their reasons were they did not want their pensions affected and some said they never wanted to see another war in Europe! Happy Christmas 🎄

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

        Jasper I also have two children. One aged 35 and married to a 36 year old and another one aged 24. They all voted Leave. They are sensible enough to see the future could be brighter providing we have someone at the helm that can bring in policies that benefit the UK. They can also see through the climate change alarmism.. Well done them for having level heads on their shoulders.

      • Andy
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

        Of course it’s a generalisation – but it is also true. Psephologists have looked into it and young people are overwhelmingly likely to have voted Remain. Baby boomers are overwhelmingly likely to have voted leave. Not all of them, of course, but this is how it works.

        Incidentally your 19 and 20 year olds are clearly not Brexiteers – as neither was old enough to vote in the 2016 referendum. They might support Brexit now but they have never had their say on it. Among their generation they are in a small minority.

        • Jasper
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

          Andy – they were indeed to young to vote at the referendum but took an interest and understood the meaning of democracy hence they voted at this GE and the EU elections for a party that would respect Democracy. What is your answer to the myth about all oldies voting leave?

    • Gareth Warren
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      Did you know, those young voters who support the EU and Labour grow up to be older voters who support brexit and conservatism.

      • Andy
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

        Except they won’t – as you will find out. Brexit is a permanent deal breaker for many.

        • Chris S
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

          It won’t be a deal breaker when we’ve made a success of it !

    • Anonymous
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

      With a supposed centre left majority in the country (which I doubt) Labour still got trounced.

      How is it, Andy, that whichever way an election/referendum goes it is The Left/Remain that should have won it ?

      If we’re going to play your silly and dishonest game then the Tories can claim the 30% of voters who stayed at home and were prepared to leave a Tory government in office rather than turf them out.

      • Anonymous
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:05 am | Permalink

        PS

        I have two students at home with me at the moment. One a Leave voter and one a Remain voter. The game of Bin Jenga is the one being played at home at the moment.

        The student system is to wash someone else’s dishes before you can start doing anything in the kitchen – and also to leave your shoes piled up in front of the door so that no-one can get in.

        I wouldn’t trust either to put the garbage out properly, let alone vote. Something afflicts people when they are at university – they certainly weren’t brought up to behave like this and they both talk the idealistic sort of shite that only someone who hasn’t brought up children can.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:13 am | Permalink

      Andy – – ‘The young are overwhelmingly outraged by Brexit, the failure of the Tory elite to tackle climate change and the fact that they are locked out of democratic process.’
      overwhelmingly outraged – nonsense. They voted for remaining due to the Project Fear messages, mostly lies and OTT predictions of disaster. They simply have no expereience of ups and downs of life, politically and socially. This ‘outrage’ will be soothed once calm descends as a few years go by.
      Again ‘climate change’ is OTT of the natural cycle of the land and sea warming, with mankind having a minor effect. The outrage is pointless in the UK – barely 1% of the supposed damage we do. Where are the young doing and voicing the real problem countries?
      Labour will have to figure out how to dump the top 20 figures in the party who are clear or closet disruptive union supporters, or weak-kneed marxist wannabees. Real socialists should be welcomed, but momentum etc have managed to abuse, divide and vote out reasonable moderate thinkers. Shame on them.
      It could be decades for them to return to power if the Conservatives get their act together – but will they?

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        Great post Fred H

        • Derek Henry
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

          I replied to your SNP post Fedupsoutherner

          • Fedupsoutherner
            Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

            Derek it would have been most informative I’m sure if I could have stayed awake long enough to read it.

    • Edward2
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:52 am | Permalink

      I also hope Jess becomes leader of the Labour Party.
      But for very different reasons to you.

    • zorro
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

      “Locked out of the democratic process”??? – What utter nonsense! – Could they not be bothered to vote? Your comments about there being a “significant left centre majority” are beyond parody. That is certainly not the case in England (biggest country in the Union) which has an overwhelming right of centre Leave majority.

      We’ll see what Labour comes up with, but I suspect that Jess Phillips is definitely not the answer! It needs to portray a more patriotic left wing approach to attract back Northern votes and drop the lefty, Metropolitan extreme PC creed which turns off Northern voters and has done for years…..

      zorro

      • Andy
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 4:02 pm | Permalink

        Yes. Locked out of the democratic process. 15% of the electorate voted Green and Lib Dem. They got 12 seats between them. Almost 5 million voters on the centre left completely ignored.

        43% voted Tory. They got 57% of the seats. But what’s really changed this time is that the really extreme right – Farage – has taken issue with FPTP. His supporters – absolutely legitimately – recognise it needs changing. And you will have to change it. Because in 2019 FPTP is a simple democratic outrage which has lost swathes of support. You either change it willingly or you will be forced to change it. If our voices are not heard at the ballot box we will use other means.

        • Edward2
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

          As long as the two main parties win, the voting system will not change.
          If people eant the Greens or Lib Dems to win they can vote for them.
          But they don’t.
          PS
          I note you are starting to sound all angry and threatening in your posts andy.
          Keep calm.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

      Looking at it the other way, there are a variety of parties on the left and just one on the right, a variety of parties for the 48% just one for the 52%.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      The young switched from voting Labour to Conservative at about the age of 39 (in this last election). The age changes but the trend is always the same, with age comes wisdom and a Conservative vote. That is why it is nonsense to assume a Remain voting youth will translate into a Rejoin voting majority in the future. They won’t.

  4. Lifelogic
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    You say:- It was interesting that the biggest array of freebies ever offered in an election did not tease out more supporters.

    It was fabulous to see that the UK’s electorate, especially in the north, saw through Labour fake offer of endless bribes to buy their votes using money stolen of others. It would have destroyed the economy is very short order. It is a shame that, especially in London and places like Islington, most of the electorate fell for these appalling con tricks.

    The Labour leadership contenders is a list of dire, daft and rather incompetent people. Deluded remainer Kier Starmer is now favourite and Long Bailey second. If Boris put a real Conservative small government, low tax agenda in places Labour will not see power for at least 10 years. But will he or is he another Cameron or Blair at heart?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Roman Williams on the Today Progamme today I see with their dire guest editors (other than Charles Moore) he spoke out about the “sinister feeling that this must be some kind of conspiracy or huge confidence trick”.

      It clearly is a hugely exaggerated conspiracy trick and indeed a new religion you silly dope – as most sensible impartial physicists point out. He had some daft comments on right and left wing politics too.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

        Rowan

        I also watched Bercow with his absurd channel 4 alternative Christmas Speech. He quotes Tony Benn with his “who elected you and how do we get rid of you” speech but did not seem to realise this applied perfectly to the EU. They he complains about the language being used. When if people in parliament as as traitors to the UK what language does he expect.

        To me all those who voted for the Benn act or enabled it are all traitors and to me always will be. Even if Boris foolishly let some back in.

    • DOMINIC
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      London is a special place for Labour. It is Labour’s wonderland. Packed full of victims and public sector workers only to willing vote Labour to cling onto their privileges afforded to them by the private sector taxpayer

      Politically inspired and legislation driven Immigration from low income countries has completely altered the fortunes of Labour in the capital. Using immigration to import political votes is a tactic Labour embraced decades ago. The Tories refuse to expose and then reverse this fraud perpetrated by Labour as they quake in fear of the race card slander. Why is this form of politics specific to western democracies?

      • Fred H
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

        Labour and London – – you only need to look to Islington North, Hackney North, Brent Central, Brent North, Tottenham, Hayes and Harlington and Holborn.

      • steve
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

        DOMINIC

        “The Tories refuse to expose and then reverse this fraud perpetrated by Labour as they quake in fear of the race card slander”

        …..cos unlike us they’re scared, and not very bright either.

  5. sm
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    Every State needs a strong and thoughtful Opposition, one which has reasonable and honest aims and values. Governments must be held to account, or they will become stale and eventually veer towards corruption.

    Lady Nugee has already admitted that Labour’s economic manifesto was not in fact costed, while Mr Corbyn was, from the start, quite evidently a Leader without any characteristic of authority.

    What I would like to see in the Labour Party is a sense of integrity, and intelligent, reasoned arguments for their beliefs – not the crude and menacing tactics of fear and hatred, as perpetrated by Momentum and certain powerful Trades Union leaders.

    • DOMINIC
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:05 am | Permalink

      Labour died in the early 1970’s. What you see is a memory

      • Fred H
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

        dominic – – a memory and a nightmare a lot of us do not want to return to. In our waking hours we do not want to go back to sleep.

  6. Shirley
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    People do not like being lied to. Many MP’s stood on a 2017 manifesto to honour the referendum result, and promised to uphold it, and then did the opposite. Boris got rid of a few (not enough) but Labour didn’t. They became an undemocratic party.

    Many Remainers just wanted to Remain, and they didn’t care how, even if it meant destroying democracy. If they like the EU that much, then they aren’t too bothered about democracy anyway.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:25 am | Permalink

      Exactly. Dishonesty and a total lack of vision is why Theresa May took the Conservatives down to 5th place and 9%.

      But will Boris actually become a real Conservative or just yet another Blair/May/Cameron tax to death socialist pretending to be a Conservative?

    • jerry
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      @Shirley; “People do not like being lied to.”

      Nonsense, most people are lied to every day of the week, and are happy to accept those lies, what they do not like is those lies being pointed out, especially when the truth goes against their own belief’s!

      • steve
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

        Jerry

        “Nonsense, most people are lied to every day of the week, and are happy to accept those lies”

        Speak for yourself. When someone lies to me I tend to do something about it.

        • jerry
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

          @steve; Indeed, as most will, just as long as they are actually willing to detect the lie in the first place.

          Would you honestly rubbish your chosen politico if doing so would give votes (if not victory) to theirs and your nemesis?

          • steve
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 3:51 am | Permalink

            Interesting comment Jerry, in the end I had to vote for Boris just to keep Corbyn out.

            That was despite my gut feeling that Boris doesn’t have the bottle to take on the EU.

            All a bit irrelevant though as they’re all a bunch of liars and the worst is still to come.

    • Helen Smith
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

      Shirley, if Labour had booted out all the undemocratic liars who had promised to respect the result of the ref they would only have about 6 MPs left

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

      Shirley

      There was an expectation that the referendum result would be respected and delivered in good time. The shenanigans of ALL the political parties has lifted the lid on how we are governed. We saw that a minority government (thank you Theresa May MP) cannot get any busyness through the house and cannot force a GE because of the FTPA. Quite how Alexander Johnson MP achieved it with even less MP’s in his party show just what an inept politician she is.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

      Why are you still complaining about people who simply voted differently from you?

      You won the referendum, and you now have government by a party whose idea that referendum was, and which as a matter of policy is going to take the country out of the European Union.

      It has a large majority, and nothing can now stop that.

      You and they have got exactly that for which you campaigned.

      At least now accept that you fully own the whole enterprise, and that you, and nobody else, are now answerable for all of its consequence – yes, for all of them.

  7. Everhopeful
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:55 am | Permalink

    The Tories should not preen too much in their success. (And now having dispatched BNP, UKIP and BP they face the threat of Remain Lib Dem s!).
    The Tories only won because the Labour Party is unashamedly communist and because Boris called/calls to something deep-seated in the electorate ( very Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and Saint George!’ or a good actor!).
    He has huge support in very odd places.
    But the Tories have moved so far to the left as to be virtually Labour Light.
    Boris seems to be what the country needs..so let’s hope that undermining from some quarters has no effect. And let’s hope that the undermining is not true!
    The papers are now full of rumoured ghastly policies ( health, drones, selling education etc).
    Basically the Tories need to deliver a real Brexit and become a Conservative party again.
    Which I doubt will happen. But for 5 years ( is it still?) we are safer than we would have been in Britezuela.

    • jerry
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      @Everhopeful; “Labour Party is unashamedly communist”

      That sort of silly comment tells us far more about how far to the right your own politics are than it tells us anything about the Labour Party or its printed manifesto…

      “The Tories need to [..//..] become a Conservative party again.”

      Indeed they do, we need another Churchill or Macmillan, with sensible policies based on the countries needs, not just ideology and/or favouritism.

      • Everhopeful
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

        Re Labour I suggest you look into the matter in a sensible way.
        Why are you defending Labour anyway?

        • Everhopeful
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

          You are using Labour social media rhetoric!

          • jerry
            Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

            @Everhopeful; Whilst you are using, the more radical of, Tory social media rhetoric!

            It is you who needs to do some reading, such as the differences between “Socialism” and “Communism”.

            I’m not defending Labour per se, I’m defending the right for political parties and their supporters to be described correctly, or should others broad-brush your own political beliefs by calling you of the ‘Far Right’. After all what’s good for the Goose is also good for the Gander surely?…

      • Chris S
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

        Jerry, With a policy of re-nationalisation, a shadow chancellor happy to admit to being a Marxist and Corbyn as the leader, (enough said about him!), how can you argue that Labour isn’t in the grips of communists ?

        • jerry
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 8:32 am | Permalink

          @Chris; If (re)nationalisation was the definition of Communism it would also make the the current Tory govt since 2010 Communists too, after all have they not -in effect- recently renationalised the ECML TOC, and many a Tory government accepted nationalisation from 1951 onwards?

          Stop cherry picking the one or two policies/people that fit your wished brickbat, there were many policies within the last Labour manifesto that would make a true supporter of Marxism cry out with despair, calling them unbridled capitalism!

          As for the shadow chancellor, your point being what, other than to make some people wonder how best to describe the Tory party in the 1960s/60s when people such as Enoch Powell were Ministers and/or member of Cabinet – any political party is more than just one person, and all live in glass houses…

          • ChrisS
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

            I’m afraid your just as delusional as all the other supporters of Corbyn and McDonnell.

          • jerry
            Posted December 28, 2019 at 9:05 am | Permalink

            @ChrisS; What ever… If attempting to insult others is the best intellectual reply you can muster there is only one “delusional” person contributing to this segment of the discussion and it’s not me!

    • James1
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      The electorate is not as stupid as some politicians think. The Labour notion that “only the billionaires would need to pay just a little bit more in tax” was quite wonderful as an aid in the forked tongue spotting department. Happy New Year to our host and all who post to this website, irrespective of their political views.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

      Your assessment has merit. Momentum (Communist) has taken over the Labour Party and I cannot see a ‘moderate’ Labour Leader uniting the party and providing an effective opposition.

      The PM admitted that the Northern voters have only lent him their vote. A powerful and honest admission that will please them and show that he is at least, better than his predecessors.

      We need in parliament a party that will defend the interests of the UK as I do not believe the government will do just that. Get BREXIT Done is a slogan that is symbolic to that of get EEC Membership Done of the Early 70’s. ie Anything will do !

  8. Lifelogic
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    I watched the Greta Thunberg’s, ‘If you choose to fail us we will never forgive you’ video yesterday. The real problem is the hugely damaging over reaction to climate alarmism called for by Greta Thunberg types which is doing massive damage. Millions of lives could be saves if this money were spent sensibly instead of being wasted on a war against tree and plant food.

    I however will forgive Greta. She is young, deluded, knows little science and has clearly been brainwashed (and is being used) by climate powerful climate alarmist organisations and the endless “BBC think” propaganda.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

      One week before Christmas I gave my two daughters, who are close to Ms Thunberg’s age, the choice between an environmental Christmas such that Greta much approve or the full unnecessary presents and too much food consumer-fest (which I find vulgar).

      They chose the consumer fest as I know they would. Greta does not speak for a generation and nor dies that middle class rabble – Extinction rebellion.

    • BeebTax
      Posted December 29, 2019 at 7:50 am | Permalink

      And tomorrow morning she has the guest editorship of the Today programme. Glad I don’t pay a licence fee to fund the Beeb’s propaganda.

  9. Nig l
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    I am not convinced about people’s memories of previous Labour administrations, certainly not the younger vote. Their leader’s toxicity and untenable position on Brexit made the election result almost certain. As for the arguments, these hampered their developing theirs, certainly on the economy etc where they offered a real alternative and indeed had success forcing you to ‘rewrite’ your fiscal rules throwing billions at projects like the NHS irrespective of their inefficiencies. (Cue LifeLogic)

    Next steps will be a fight for the soul of the party, pragmatists versus purists. ‘Extreme’ parties tend to claim they weren’t extreme enough to win the vote so move further from the centre and of course Blair, despite winning three elections is detested by the Momentumites and Unions so I cannot see much of a shift back to the centre.

    In any event I do not believe this tosh about wanting a decent opposition, because as we are already seeing it forces you to move towards them. What we need are the boundary changes to ensure their ‘Venezuela’ type approach is consigned to history as Blair’s success did to Thatcherism.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted December 27, 2019 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

      Indeed the NHS is hugely inefficient with some of the worst outcomes for any developed nation. It can never work efficiently as currently financed and structured.

  10. Old Albion
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    “Why did Labour lose”

    1) They were ‘led’ by a communist with a long history of supporting any and every terrorist group. Particularly those with an anti-British agenda.

    2) They did not declare for or against Brexit, just offered a muddy incomprehensible non-policy.

    3) Labour has been infiltrated by anti-Semites encouraged by its leader.

    4) It so called economic policies were a rag-tag nonsense. Completely unaffordable and guaranteed to bankrupt the country. Suggesting the 5% highest earners could pay for it, was beyond idiocy.

    Yes a strong opposition is desirable. But if Labour elects a leader as far left as Corbyn or even associated with Corbynism, they are doomed to failure. A modern centre-left political party is their only chance.

    • Derek Henry
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

      Completely unaffordable and guaranteed to bankrupt the country.

      More gold standard, fixed exchange rate nonsense.

      How in earth will this debate move on ?

      See what the conservatives have done John brainwashed a generation.

      • Edward2
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

        More MMT nonsensical economic theory from you Derek.
        Look at economic history.
        Eventually creation of magic money , overspending with no real wealth creation, results in an currency that steadily becomes worthless.
        Inflation rises and confidence in the currency falls.
        Even now we have about 2% inflation.
        Which means in ten years the value of my savings will reduce in spending power by 20%
        The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow doesn’t exist.

  11. William Pentelow
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    “Their first self appointed task is to work out why they lost so many seats in 2019.”

    They are not capable of that one simple task, look at the absolute fools that are sitting for leadership.
    Not a sane coherent one among them.

    PS
    John, your party must ditch the green agenda or you will go the way of Labour.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

      Your first sentence reflects exactly how I feel. Although I am pleased we did not get a Labour government, I am wise enough to know that an effective opposition helps to keep our government honest. Witness the Conservative Party through the Blair / New Labour years. New Labour brought in damaging policy after policy and the Tories just waved it all through, including Iraq !

      • Simeon
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

        Is a strong opposition one that makes *valid* (as opposed to confected) criticisms of the government, or one that seeks to be electable? Most of the time, these are two different things.

        It is very rare that politicians in democracies provide leadership and set the agenda. It is not quite that they are led by the nose by the electorate, but more that they attempt to second-guess what the electorate desire, with the incentive being electoral success for good guesswork. It’s a game almost any ‘successful’ political party plays.

        Labour’s principles might stink, but at least they were offering somewhat of an alternative to the same old same old, having recognised that the country has gone to crap. In contrast, the Tories just offer more of the same. But crucially, the Tory offer was closer to what The People wanted. A definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. In which case, the British People are truly bonkers.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

      In this country the choice is either blue or red, dumb or dumber. If the Tories go the way of Labour, you can guarantee that Labour will go the way of the Tories in an equal and opposite direction. The next government will be either Tory or Labour – though you can guarantee that whichever wins, the green agenda will be front and centre.

  12. Dave Andrews
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    Labour’s message is attractive to those who don’t work, and those sympathetic to the non-working. In a society with low unemployment that doesn’t secure a majority in parliament.
    But this is what the Labour (Welfare) Party has become, so they will be consigned to losing until they have their own revolution.
    I’d like to know what proportion of the membership of Labour-supporting unions actually vote labour themselves.

  13. Ian@Barkham
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    Corbyn’s with his loony friends had one aim destroy society – it was that simple. He only lost because he sided with those in the HoC that decided to fight the people and democracy.

    If there is one main thing that needs changing in the way we are Governed it is that no laws, regulations or standards can be enforced on UK citizens, that they can’t have modified, changed or repealed by those they select and elect as there representatives in the UK Parliament

    • Ian@Barkham
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

      Ooopa.. Their representatives

    • steve
      Posted December 27, 2019 at 3:16 am | Permalink

      Ian@Barkham

      Good luck with the law thing !

      Better way is to adapt your lifestyle as much as you can so as to minimise the effects of laws you don’t agree with.

      The larger problem is the con trick of the century perpetrated by Mrs May, when she enshrined EU law into UK law. To my mind having laws the same as EU laws is not taking back control of ours.

  14. mickc
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    Flint got it right. The failure by Labour to support the result of the Referendum was disastrous for them. Corbyn should have ignored Starmer, Thornberry et al and just said Labour would implement the Referendum decision. The Northern heartlands would not have then been lost. Blyth Valley is Brexit territory…always has been Ronnie Campbell epitomised the constituency. But that type of grassroots knowledge was just ignored. Result: disaster.

    I would point out the Tories did the same under Cameron….ignore…and despise the grassroots. And insult them as swivel eyed loons; well, we know who the actual loons were!

    Starmer will probably become Labour leader….smooth, slippery, dangerous and a Blair wannabe. Every Tory response to him should end with “and here is a man who dislikes the result of democracy”. It should never be allowed to be forgotten.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

      I so very much agree. Especially you first two paragraphs. Problem is, as others have highlighted, Labour Leadership candidates have admitted to this, probably because they were the cause.

  15. margaret
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Jeremy Corbyn would have been a good PM. He is experienced, calm and thoughtful.Unfortunately some of the best minds who have learned from experience and don’t rely on their ‘A’ level results from paid grammar schools are never seriously in the running.As for labour leaders most simply remember Tony Blair and his influence . I was very hopeful during his period in office , but was sadly let down when the so- called workers allowed spivs and private concerns to take out public money and use into build their own tiny empires which in many cases was a waste of time.

    In Manchester we have state of the art hospitals ……far too much money spent at the expense of good, reliable, trustworthy staff ! …. The socialist followers seem to adore the glitterati which goes against my conservative nature.

    They need to develop sensible strategies of growth outside the city and then go about building GB solidly up again without mimicking business , business , business role models.The people put in positions of power have been those who look at the world of moneymaking as something totally disconnected from strong basic powerful daily resources.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      I regard JC as a honest man but with views that I disagree with. Sadly I disagree that he would be a good PM. He could not control certain elements in his own party and economics of Labour would have been ruinous.

      • steve
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

        Mark B

        “I regard JC [Corbyn] as a honest man”

        I don’t, everyone knows there wouldn’t be anywhere near the money to pay for all those things he reckoned he would deliver. (One reason why Labour lost)

        Was there ever an honest Con Man ?

        That said, the bunch we elected might be having us over for all we know. God help ’em if they are.

        • Simeon
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

          Actually, I think, given this is a politician we’re talking about, and one leading the Labour party no less, Corbyn is pretty honest. Obviously he made compromises in attempt to keep his party together. One can question the wisdom of those compromises of course. And obviously much of the thinking is wrongheaded. But he is, I think, sincere, as far as these things go. More than can be said for any Conservative politician I can think of, including, I’m sad to say, our kind host.

          • Mark B
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 9:34 am | Permalink

            Agreed.

      • margaret
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

        =Surely it isn’t about control though. it is about democracy.

    • IanT
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:15 pm | Permalink

      “Jeremy Corbyn would have been a good PM.”

      What utter nonsense! Jeremy Corbyn would have been a complete disaster – and fortunately it seems most people agree with me.

      • margaret
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

        IT
        So sorry that you think this statement does not make sense. I will repeat it using tautology . It is my opinion that JC would make a good PM . Is that statement understandable?
        Probably what you meant is that you don’t agree. This dramatic hyperbole is not what is required for those making responsible decisions, It is arrogant, rude and not necessary.

    • mickc
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      Very good points! I actually have respect for Corbyn!; he is a Socialist…and says he is! He is indeed calm, and courteous…probably when he shouldn’t be.
      Whether the economics would have worked I rather doubt!; but we’re certainly going to see if Boris’s milder version will.

      Regrettably I do not think he had the steel to be a good PM. Boris sacked the Remainer 21, no matter how illustrious they thought they were (Ken Clarke must have got the shock of his life…poor old thing!); Corbyn blew with the wind.

      • Simeon
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

        Corbyn never was a leader. Though I would suggest that this country last had a leader with Thatcher. Blair got things done, but he was an efficient manager with Campbell behind him.

        • Chris S
          Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

          Blair contributed to the ruin of our economy by allowing Brown freedom to do whatever he wanted in No.11.

          Blair should have sacked his chancellor after the first term but I’ve always suspected that Brown was able to blackmail him over something in the past. It was always obvious that Brown had some kind of powerful hold over Blair that made him unsackable.

          • Simeon
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 8:29 am | Permalink

            Blair was appalling, but he was effective; he got done what he wanted. Brown was also appalling, but he worked with Blair. They were ideologically aligned, so there was no rearon for Blair to want to sack him. Obviously there was personal animosity between the two, but that was not the reeult of policy differences.

  16. Richard1
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Labour’s vote was surely held up by remainers who thought Labour the best way of stopping Brexit. Without that they would have done even worse. Their policy of a referendum of remain versus Brino would have resulted in a large vote for Remain on a low a turnout. Still, perhaps 7-8 million people did actually vote for the ludicrous Corbyn-McDonnell programme of socialism tinged with other political extremism. Perhaps a good number of these were ‘tribal’ Labour voters. But it does show we need much more robust intellectual defence of the free market system from Conservatives in the coming years.

    Labour should of course try to move back to centrist social democracy. But with the far left controlling the party organisation, the NEC, as well as local branches, it’s not obvious how a moderate new leader will be able do this. Any new leader is also going to have to make an early decision as to whether to be a party of rejoining the EU. If Brexit is perceived as a success that will of course mean disaster for them at the next election. They need someone like Caroline Flint, but she’s no longer an MP. All the current Labour front bench are hopeless, even ridiculous, and should be ditched, with the possible exceptions of Messrs Starmer Ashworth and Gardiner.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      Agreed.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

      Well, Brexit won’t bring success to this country. From a purely selfish point of view, it will make sense for the Tories to minimise the disruption of Brexit, which is of course why they are aiming for BRINO/Remain. But Brexit and Tory incompetence aren’t the only threats to the economy. The wellbeing of the UK economy is not in the government’s gift. Assuming the next Labour leader isn’t a friend of terrorists, even with a leftist agenda the Labour party will do much better next time.

  17. Alec
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    I’d suggest that the Labour party should, pretty much en masse, quit politics, get productive jobs and learn about the real world outside their urban marxist bubble.

  18. jerry
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    On the wider issues Labour did indeed win many an arguments, but not all of them with the same people, and then failed to put forward any believable solutions, which just got less believable as the campaign went on as additions items were added to the shopping list (such as their WASPI policy, that broke their own manifesto rules by being totally un-costed).

    They also jumped the wrong side of the Brexit fence, promoting the Blairite wing’s ‘Heads we win (BRINO), Tails you loose (Revoke) solution’ to how Brexit should be achieved, believing that because Boris was as unpopular as Farage is their real opponents were the LibDems/SNP..

  19. Javelin
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    Labour have three sets of voters.

    – Old Labour Northern Working class
    – New Labour Middle class Marxist
    – Immingant Labour with low incomes

    Working class labour directly competes with low income immigrants. As a result of the middle (muddle) class Marxist voters running immigration policy in the deep state the working class are now voting for any party to stop immigration. The working class really want the Conservatives to route the civil service of middle class marxists.

    Middle class Marxist Labour. Probably better called #Hashtag voters. Who like to virtue signal to pay more tax for #Hashtag causes like #Austerity, #Woke, #Bame, #ClimateChange or #LGBT. Ironically their sneering superiority is based on a Pavlovian response to #Hashtags.

    Left wing policy in this country is driven by #Hastags causes which in turn are driven by the MSM such as BBC and Guardian.

    An unexpected conclusion is the only way Labour will get back into power is to scrap the BBC.

    • Anonymous
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

      Anyone can pay as much tax as they like as a socialist to prove themselves. If they don’t then they’re a hypocrite.

      Labour got Corbyn because they were stupid enough to open up the votership to £3 a pop. A load of right wing bloggers voted him in.

      Labour do not (and never will) understand simple supply/demand economics, which is why the Blair/Brown government announced they were selling off our gold and flogged it rock bottom.

      And this was the best Labour government we were likely to get. This is the on thing that amazes me about Martin in Cardiff who is a Labour supporter and who is an otherwise excellent commentator on this site.

  20. agricola
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    When the ex head of MI6 publicly suggests that many of the shadow cabinet would not pass positive vetting you take such public warnings seriously. From their own statements you realise that they would not take the defence of the realm very seriously. So in a key area they ruled themselves out of contention.

    Politically their adherence to Marxism put them in a time warp. It is a totally failed philosophy worldwide, but fits neatly with Labours proven financial incompetence every time they have been given a period in power. They usually gained such power from the perceived unsuitability of the Conservative alternative. Remember , political parties win elections based on the failure of their opponents. The 2019 election was a classic example of this. Positive though Boris was considered to be, Labour managed to convince the electorate that they were not a suitable alternative.

    Their emotional appeal as a bunch of thin lipped thoroughly miserable individuals sat on the front bench of their party was an absolute zero.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

      Politically their adherence to Marxism put them in a time warp.

      And neither would Olly Robbins. 😉

  21. DOMINIC
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:02 am | Permalink

    Don’t become complacent. Millions in the north voted Tory out of fear of Marxism, open borders and identity politics authoritarianism though considering your party’s been in power since 2010 it does suggest all parties are directly responsible for the rise of a form of State supported politics that is openly anti-libertarian, authoritarian and decidedly discriminatory against the majority of those who live in these islands. This tyranny of the minority based on the contrivance of a victim will lead to divisions that will only become apparent in decades to come

    In effect, your party have betrayed British culture of open expression and embraced authoritarian politics in which language, speech and media output is strictly controlled for those of us who comprise the majority in these islands

    I always focus on the things you and your party never make reference to but issues that I would naturally expect you to do so. That tells me all I need to know about the direction in which the Tory party has headed.

    I still believe your party’s deliberately protected Labour from harm by not drawing attention to very important issues that had the capacity to destroy them. This is deliberate and designed to maintain the status quo in the Commons.

    Your party’s refusal to discuss social issues and confront the warriors of identity politics who are cutting a swathe through this nation is unacceptable. The weaponisation of race, gender and sexuality is warping this nation, destroying our freedoms, imposing social and language control over the majority and the undermining the truth.

    Labour and their client state that control our lives must be reformed and then neutered

    Reply This is where we disagree. I think racial and sexual discrimination and abuse should be condemned and prevented.

  22. GetBrexitDoneBoris
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:11 am | Permalink

    A Leader called Corbyn who couldn’t hold a candle to Boris… when it came to charisma and ‘likeability.
    A set of unrealistic spending promises that sensible voters believed were unattainable.
    A concern that Labour would once again bankrupt our Country.
    A concern that Labour’s policies were way to left of centre.
    No clear policy on Brexit…just ‘fudge’.
    A Party riven by “A-S”…a major concern for all decent people.
    A sense that Labour represent the middle-class “metros”…those without a conscience…who are self-centred and look down their noses at the working classes.
    A Party that couldn’t compete with the message “Get Brexit Done”…even though they tried to denigrate the slogan…it worked.
    Ultimately, a Party that was out-witted by the strategies of Johnson and Cummings (a true Tour de Force)

  23. Kenneth
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:19 am | Permalink

    I think the problem is deeper still.

    Socialists have always been a mix of working people and dreamer academics.

    The dreamers were happy to ride on the backs of the workers from the 1920’s onwards as they tried to tack on communism or types of Marxism to what was a fairly moderate (“decent wages and conditions”) movement.

    The dreamers have gradually taken over and the workers are not keen on their weirdo ideas.

    The refusal to recognise the desire to leave the eu and to reduce immigration are just a couple of examples.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

      The dreamers have gradually taken over . . .

      I’d agree with that ! Not just dreamers but people so far removed from ordinary working class people who, consider themselves both socialist and patriotic. Something you cannot accuse Lady Nugee of being 😉

  24. Anonymous
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    Why did Labour lose ?

    Because people are utterly sick of Political Correctness, Brexit voters being disobeyed and *uncontrolled* immigration (which caused Brexit in the first place.)

    The Tories should beware. There are now no excuses and no-one else to blame for not doubling down on these things – and scrapping the BBC licence fee while we’re at it.

    In fact, let’s get rid of all the identity politics stuff. It’s divisive and fatuous. We’re all in this together and it doesn’t matter if we’re gay or straight, white or black, Muslim or Christian, Jew or Hindu. Treat everybody equally. And end the hierarchy of whingeing victimhoods. (Quoting Rod Liddle.)

    White boys are particularly discriminated against these days.

    The press are now banging on about how providing houses for the young will stop them voting Labour ever again but building over our countryside is not the answer. Reducing immigration to very low levels and Help to Move for old people can avert much destruction.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

      The problem with regards to housing and immigration is unsolvable. Why ? Because one is driving the other and this drive maintains prices. If you remove that which supports the prices and they fall people will punish the politicians at the polling booths. Those plate have to be kept spinning ! Simple.

    • Andy
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

      Political correctness is a favourite whinge of the right. ‘You can’t anything nowadays’ spend their lives feeling professionally offended.

      Well let me help you out. You can say whatever you like. You are not discriminated against.

      Political correctness, as a problem, exists entirely in your heads.

      • Anonymous
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

        You can lose your job if someone else deems they are offended – or if someone else over someone else deems they are offended. Also the Politically Correct deem what is entertainment these days.

        Old people are fair game.

        Silly. They still have the vote.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

          Then it is the fact that employers have too much power over employees which is the problem.

          The Tories only intend to increase that.

          These people being sacked generally have broken no laws, so do not misrepresent the legal position, and in so doing the views of politicians who make the law.

      • Edward2
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

        Soon you will realise you cannot say what you want.

  25. Julian
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    They can only recover by forming a new New Labour with people like Ed Balls, Alan Johnson & Andy Burnham and with a new leader from the centre left.
    The existing party will remain controlled by Momentum and cannot recover if that happens.
    I hope that is the outcome and that we are never threatened with a hard left government again.

    • Ian@Barkham
      Posted December 27, 2019 at 12:02 am | Permalink

      Center left? The so-called Conservative Party is the center left, Labour and the un-Democratics have become metro marxists. We have a EU style political class that rule, not govern as required in a democracy

  26. NigelE
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    The last time Labour had a far-Left obsession, when Wilson handed over to Callaghan in about 1976, it took more than 20 years for them to move back into the centre with Blair in 1997. Their current position is arguably more Left than even the party led by Michael Foot so I do not envisage any changes in the near future. They either need to lose another GE or two, or to find the UK electorate have moved significantly to the Left (unlikely, in my view).

    In the meantime, I hope Rebecca L-B gets the leadership. She’ll change little for the party, but it’ll be entertaining seeing her cross swords with the PM.

  27. BOF
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:53 am | Permalink

    Thanks to all of the establishment parties, sometimes known as LibLabCon, every party that emerges that is in line with a large number of the electorate, they set out to destroy them by labelling them far right or even extreme right.

    What we are left with are a left wing Conservative part and all others further left. No wonder I vote through gritted teeth for the high tax, big state Conservative party that gave us gender politics, foreign aid and carbon neutral by 2050 and now in thrall to the ‘green’ lobby.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

      Yep !

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

      BOF. I think you speak for a lot of us.. I only voted Conservative because the Brexit Party was not available and because Labour was abysmal. I don’t like what the Conservative party has become and am fed up with all the things you list. It seems they pass these so called ethical policies without rigorous scrutiny and expect us to all fund the bill for it. There is such a lot of taxpayers money being wasted on things that don’t achieve anything for the country.. I wish Boris would bring back a true Conservative party and give us something to really cheer about.

    • Ian@Barkham
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:56 pm | Permalink

      Agreed – not a democratic choice e just a coin toss and guess of the lesser evil

  28. BOF
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    Why did Labour lose? They talked to themselves within the party while labour voters were never going to be taken in by the largesse or vote for Jeremy Corbyn.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

      +1

  29. formula57
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Clearly, next Labour needs (as ever) to confront the contradiction within itself about whether it is a vehicle to deliver socialism (taking a parliamentary route) or a believer in capitalism with (if it wishes) a well-developed social conscience.

    It needs a fresh ideology, fashioned to deal with the ills of our times. It has no-one with the intellectual capacity nor leadership skills to provide that.

  30. GetBrexitDoneBoris
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

    The only way that Labour will get re-elected, is to dishonestly, once again, hide their Left-wing, unacceptable policies…inside a smooth and sneaky outer wrapper…as did Tony Blair.
    Once voters are suckered again , by this dishonest con-trick…they can bring all the Left-wing destruction out of hiding.
    E.g. Unlimited immigration “To rub the Right-wing’s nose in it”. Unsustainable mad-cap spending…Etc.etc.

  31. Davies
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    From what I read until labour shake off their momentum shackles we will see more of the same regardless of leader. Corbyn hanging around like a bad smell to ensure the right type of leader takes over is the last thing they need.

    It is difficult to see how they will change, after all the only election winner they have had since the 1970 s was a social democrat who was more distanced from unions and mad student type activists which tells us that UK politics alaays has to be fought from the centre.

    It would not surprise me if the Labour party split.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

      I think a split is on the cards.

  32. bigneil(newercomp)
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    A few days before the election I heard a Labour voice say – – Nobody who got here would be deported and no families would be deported either – in plain English – the world can come and stay. Absolutely ridiculous comment to come out with.

    Meanwhile, on the Boxing day news – £thousands of the taxpayers money spent on yet another “rescue” mission in the Channel picking up another bunch of freeloaders. It’ll be interesting to see if they are sent back. I think we all know the answer.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

      None will be sent back. They will be put into a B&B from which they will disappear to live with relatives already here. Why do you think they need those mobile phones ?

      😉

      • steve
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

        The right thing to do is to feed them, give them a change of clothing and access to a doctor, then, according to EU rules send them safely straight back to the previous country they were in.

        • Mark B
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 9:42 am | Permalink

          Steve

          As I understand it, we can only send them back to the previous country if they have already claimed asylum. Since none do whilst in France we are obliged to take them. My personal view is to treat them as criminals, which they are ! Entering a country without proper papers and permission is illegal. Therefore, they should be interned until they are tried and, if found guilty, returned home.

    • Andy
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

      The ‘freeloaders’ as you call them will be refugees. You do not risk your life in a dinghy in the Channel unless you are desperate.

      Those seeking asylum get very little help from the state. The notion they get huge handouts is simply false. They are mostly not allowed to work while their applications are dealt with either. The Tories could change this law but haven’t.

      Your hatred of refugees is misplaced. Remember you are just a natural disaster or a civil war away from being one yourself. Don’t make the mistake of thinking it will never happen to you. It might.

      • Anonymous
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

        Risking their lives escaping from France ???

        You really are an idiot, Andy.

        I also note that there aren’t little rubber boats going the other way which gives lie to your claims that it is this side of the Channel where racism exists.

        • Andy
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 2:47 am | Permalink

          Of course they are risking their lives. They are travelling in dinghys. In the unlikely event you have ever travelled to the continent I suspect you went on a ferry or a hovercraft. (We have trains now too you know).

          Many of these people are fleeing war ravaged countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. As refugees they face some horrible choices. They can stay in their home region and look forward to spending the next decade in a tent in a refugee camp. Two hundred metres to the nearest loo, a communal well, no jobs, no proper opportunities for their kids and a diet of rice. Or you can try for something better which means going further afield.

          Many want to come to the UK not because we give huge handouts not because we are welcoming – you lot prove we are not – but because they probably speak a bit of English. The first European country they arrive in might well be Greece. How’s your Greek?

          Genuinely I find you lot the most inhospitable and frankly cruel people imaginable. If you are ever unfortunate enough to be a refugee I bet they would not treat you the way you treat them.

          • Fred H
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 8:31 am | Permalink

            breathtaking as usual.

          • Edward2
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 8:50 am | Permalink

            Come off it Andy.
            There is nothing wrong with Greece or France.
            Many people in Europe speak English and some even speak Arabic languages.
            Even the UN says it should be nearest place of safety for refugees.
            The criminals behind this dreadful people smuggling need to be stopped.
            That is the real cruelty.

      • Oggy
        Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

        ‘ You do not risk your life in a dinghy in the Channel unless you are desperate.’

        I didn’t realise France was that bad.

      • What?
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 12:17 am | Permalink

        They cannot be termed refugees . We do not know who they are until our ships tow them most of the way from the safe haven of France. How can any of them be refugees from countries we have just liberated such as Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya…and in deed FRANCE? We do recall, they were occupied by their now best friend in the EU. How foolish.

      • dixie
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 6:59 am | Permalink

        They are only refugees to the first safe country they reach. Anyone crossing the channel in such a fashion is an illegal immigrant.

    • Stred
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

      May signed the UN Migration Charter which pledges the UK to assist migration and treat economic migrants as if they were refugees from war and persecution. The navy and border control now have to do what the civil service advise and she agreed to, though many other countries refused to

  33. 'None of the above'.
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    I remember the times and tribulations of the Labour Party under the leadership of Michael Foot. After it all went electorally wrong it he was replaced but it took a long time for them to nurture sufficient confidence in the electorate. One of the reasons for this was the relative popularity of Margaret Thatchers early policies and although social attitudes have changed considerably, Human Nature has not.
    The current crop of MPs likely to succeed Jeremy Corbyn are too associated with recent history and it may be sometime before the electorate will trust them again in sufficient numbers.
    Of course, this may change if the current Government does not deliver the ‘feel good factor’ in the next five years.

  34. GetBrexitDoneBoris
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    In a sentence…the cause of Labour’s downfall:-

    “A move from being the Party of the Working Class…to being the Party of the “Woking” Class.

    (Woking as in being “Woke”…nothing to do with the town of Woking!).

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

      Very good.

  35. David in Kent
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

    For me it was more shocking that 10 million fellow Brits voted for Labour. How shameful to have voted for an Marxist party, happy to be thought of as anti-semitic if it got them the Moslem vote, that sought to get in by bribing the electorate with their own money. How pleasing that a majority of the voters saw through the fraud. How fortunate that we have first past the post where the electorate controls the parliament rather than policy being settled in back-room deals.

  36. Helen Smith
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

    For the first time ever I was genuinely afraid of a Labour Government coming to power, they are always profligate, but Corbyn took it to a whole new level, and they would have gerrymandered the rules to let EU nationals and 16-17 year olds vote to keep themselves in power. In the end the Tory message of Get Brexit Done and respect democracy win through. Thank God.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

      Now you can sit back for the next fives years and look on in horror as PM Johnson makes the case for giving amnesty for illegal (read criminal) migrants.

      • Offence ship
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 12:01 am | Permalink

        Britain is the only nation on earth who gets into ships and assists foreigners to gain illegal entry into it then asks them who they are.

  37. Derek Henry
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

    Both the SNP and Labour have become the M&M parties.

    Metropolitan and Minorities parties.

    It should also be said the liberal right were trying to stop brexit also. Farage stopped the liberal right in their tracks.

  38. sheldon wilkie
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

    The Labour Party has become very woke identity based and Neo- Marxist in its polictical identity.They will probably chose their next leader from the left of the party and will lose the next election.
    The challenge for the Conservative Party is a demographic one with the Labour Party is streets ahead with the under 45 vote.The case must be made again for Freedom in its broadest sense by Conservative politicians at a senior level.How often do you actually use the word “freedom” in your blog posts.Failure to engage with a more diverse society and the migration of people will make seats in the home counties at risk of being lost to the Labour Party.
    The Conservative Party has got to deal with the New Generation as one of its priorities if it is to survive as a long term political party-you have 5/10 years to regain the trust of the younger voters.

  39. David McDonagh
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

    Labour lost as it ceased to be a contender in 2015. It then lost Scotland to the SNP.

    So the next election looks like the third one horse race where either the Tories win or there is a hung parliament.

  40. Irene
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

    “I rarely write about the Opposition parties …” Really? In that case, you may have an alter ego with a very similar diary to your own.

    You should focus on the mistakes made by the Conservative party, rather than skating on the ice of frozen-over lakes. I’m sure I heard / read that Boris J wants everyone to come together, to forget about the Remain v. Leave factions, to cast aside the abuse hurled over recent years. A resolution for the New Year, perhaps, for you JR.

    Promises are broken almost every single day in our so-called democracy. How many people will notice that the manifesto promise-by-Boris of a sustainable living/minimum wage was watered down within a week of the Queen’s Speech and the General Election? Would you wipe the bums of those in hospital or care homes, who through no fault of their own can’t wipe their own bum, for the princely sum of £9 an hour, or less? Day after day; week after week; month after month; year after year. Would you work as a cleaner for £9 an hour or less? £72 for an 8-hour day? Would Boris, or any MP be willing to do that? Was that a promise that was affordable before the General Election, but swept aside within days of the GE, suddenly deemed to be unaffordable?

    Should we really gloat over a promise to improve that precious hourly wage only “provided economic conditions allow”? Or should we guarantee to provide respect for those who do the jobs that many of us would shy away from, protecting our own dignity at the expense of the dignity of others? I’m sure your number-crunching could solve that particular problem at a stroke.

    As always, the devil will be in the detail.

    • Fred H
      Posted December 28, 2019 at 6:40 pm | Permalink

      Irene – – I hadn’t read your contribution (there are so many others, after all) and am glad to see the discussion about those doing menial and poorly paid jobs. This brings me onto one of my favourite gripes – personal allowances. At the rate per hour, and hours per week these heroes of the hospitals, care homes etc earn well into wages where they lose money on income tax and NI, pensions and even car parking – if they can’t travel for their duties without one. So I’m keen to see Boris’ help in easing threshold on income tax, even NI and now possibly car parking free when working at hospitals.
      Sir John – please your powers of persuasion to help in this regard. Keeping promises and encouraging future voters – whats not to like?

  41. UK Qanon
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

    I place alot of factual, truthful comments and questions on this site and most NEVER get published – WHY. Because the Establishment do not want you to know the TRUTH.
    JR, you are either nieve or complicit or both and YOU are one of the more respected MPs?

    • DOMINIC
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

      I have a lot of respect for Sir John but even he’s restricted in what he can and can’t say. He’s almost the living embodiment of what happens when a State abolishes freedom of expression and imposes strict rules on the majority population to tell it as actually is

      The Tory party have sacrificed our most basic freedoms to pander to the forces of the identity politics fascism.

      Of course there’s a number of British people who can say what the hell they like and walk away without censure. Most of these extremists enjoy the Mafia like protection of Labour’s client state

      Thanks Theresa for rubbing our noses in what Jonathan Powell deceitfully termed ‘diversity’ (liberal left code for social control of the majority)

      • steve
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 3:44 am | Permalink

        Dominic

        “I have a lot of respect for Sir John but even he’s restricted in what he can and can’t say”

        Well in my experience it’s possible to reflect what he says, and post the same comments as others, yet have all your posts deleted.

        Seems it’s ok for him to tell it like it is, and for some contributors to be barred from certain subjects. For example I am not allowed to comment on the SNP.

        Reply
        I delete any posts that libel or make unproven allegations, posts that are overlong, posts that use violent language or extreme comparisons. Most people are able to post here and everyone can post a different view to mine moderately expressed.I disagree with a large number of the contributions from others I publish. There is no ban on writing about the SNP.

        • steve
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 7:55 am | Permalink

          Reply to reply

          “I delete any posts that libel or make unproven allegations”

          Oh really !

          • Fred H
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 10:07 am | Permalink

            an allegation is after all – unproven when made.

        • Fred H
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 8:58 am | Permalink

          reply to reply.
          Well Sir John, clearly many of us feel puzzled when we are censored by your moderation. So many here write the same boring whinges – the sponging elderly, the voters who will pay for their racist (sic) voting evident in the UK of the future. Others regale us with the perfect EU. Without you realising it you overdo the BBC principle of balance, when the great majority of right-thinkers know the numerous posts from at least 2 are to satisfy your conscience on being unbiased.

          Reply Just write without insults and without abuse of people and institutions. I offer the same protections to Corbyn as to Johnson and to the Labour party as the Conservative party. I do not want contributions that are intemperate.

          • Fred H
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 11:00 am | Permalink

            reply to reply to reply.
            one man’s ‘insults and abuse of people and institutions’ is another man’s right of free speech. By way of explaining it wasn’t many years ago we were encouraged to say ‘coloured people’ rather than ‘black’ to avoid being racist. Now ‘black’ is the correct term, yet many many educated black people in America say ‘people of colour’.
            So, my use of ‘leftie nutter’ is not meant to be abusive – but meaning one who is left wing, but quite unrealistic in outlook or aims. I see hate speech every day on here directed at ‘the elderly’ yet you have no problem in including that boring repetitive diatribe. Similarly dozens of abusive remarks have been included about the institution BBC – consistency would be appreciated.

          • Fred H
            Posted December 28, 2019 at 9:11 am | Permalink

            Thank you Sir John for putting my viewpoint here. Readers may not agree with my explanation, and you may still not! I’m sure readers know you have to try to balance the views without being too abusive, racist or possibly insulting in a reasonable man or woman’s opinion.

      • Mark B
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 9:55 am | Permalink

        Telling the truth should not be considered a crime.

        UK Qanon.

        Wear it as a badge of honor.

    • Irene
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      I also scratch my head to wonder why so many of my comments never get published here, UK Qanon. Mine are always respectful, always considered, always on point; never rude, but obviously challenging to JR and for some unexplained reason, found to be unacceptable. And yet, so many other comments are allowed thru the door, especially if they are disrespectful of others and bordering on the point of abuse. I expect any Member of Parliamet to want to hear from their own constituents. Or do they only want to hear from sycophants?

      • steve
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 3:33 am | Permalink

        Irene

        It happens.

        I had all mine deleted recently on the SNP debate, despite the fact that my posts echoed what host and contributors in general said.

        We even have one person who posts the most disrespectful comments about the elderly, yet those comments are allowed.

        Don’t take it to heart, just simply exercise your choice at the ballot box. As indeed I shall do at the next one, where I shall not be voting for a party who’s representatives lack guts.

        • Mark B
          Posted December 27, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

          Steve

          Although I do not read those who clearly are here to provoke others (not falling for that game 😉 ) let a lone comment on them, I share your frustration. The solution is to keep going and to highlight the issue.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted December 27, 2019 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

            Is there no end to your victimhood pleading?

      • Mark B
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

        . . . challenging to JR . . .

        There is, I think, your answer ? My advice. Just keep posting !

    • mickc
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

      Well this one got posted, but isn’t terribly informative. I would like to read what you say, so please try again.

  42. steve
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

    You all shouldn’t be so quick to single out Labour on lies, for all you know the conservatives might also be lying, Viz Brexit, BBC, taxation, immigration, fishing, the SNP etc.

    Give it a year.

    Err on the side of the Tories being frightened of the SNP, our free speech, and caving in to French demands to plunder our maritime resources.

    In other words; same old.

  43. John Hatfield
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

    The Labour Party was the political arm of the trades unions. As trade union membership has declined with the shift in industry, so has union support of the old Party. Blair’s NuLabor was simply a vehicle to get him into power. It did not support the Unions or the workforce like Old Labour.
    The Labour Party is on the way to extinction. A decent right wing party that honestly looks after the electorate will replace it – I hope.
    Happy New Year John.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

      By definition, a right wing party does not look after the electorate, even if it does protect some section of it.

      • Edward2
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

        What definition is that Martin?

      • dixie
        Posted December 27, 2019 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

        Which definition – be sure to use one one that also stipulates that the left, or any party for that matter looks after the electorate.

    • Simeon
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

      An interesting notion that out of the Labour party a decent right wing party might emerge. I’m sceptical, simply because the establishment has quite a hold on the Labour party, even with Corbyn and Momentum to the fore. But were that to happen, it would be very welcome. Labour, the party of small businesses, innovation, and those wishing to get on, and the Tories the party of corporations and cronyism… That would be interesting.

  44. margaret
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

    We have lost so much hope for change since the early 70’s. I can’t believe all those beautiful dreams we had turned to this kitch. Many in my age group will remember Joni Mitchel’s album ‘Blue’. The sad Christmas track ‘River’ at this time (1971) was more of a rebel song . Today it evokes lost hope and times that can never be regained, yet the essence of emotional tension between what we could achieve and what is, is ever present and reminds us of all the irresponsible actions that led to this sadness.We need to take personal responsibility to make our society work and develop again.

  45. Sea Warrior
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

    I was struck by a comment in The Sunday Times that Labour now has a larger share of the graduate vote than the Conservatives – and that the Conservatives have a larger share of the Working Class vote than Labour. The only way back for Labour is for them to ditch the identity politics that has been the party’s bread & butter for ages. For us Conservatives we need to:
    a. Deliver on the manifesto – especially as it relates to Blue Wall constituencies.
    b. Ditch the PPE/CCHQ/HoC researcher/SPAD career template for our MPs – and make achieving success in the world of proper work a pre-requisite for selection as a PPC.
    c. Ditch our own attachment to identity politics and concentrate on fixing problems in a practical, common-sense ways.

  46. Fred H
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

    OFF TOPIC.

    More problems with parking at Royal Berks Hospital.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-50902276

  47. Iain Gill
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Labour have lost touch with reality. People like Bob crow understood that mass immigration was bad for the people already here.

    The identity politics which encourages discrimination against white working class hetro males has gone too far. We either want equality based on merit or we don’t.

    Lots of stuff is racist against the white working class, yet encouraged by our elite and especially labour. MOBO awards and such like would be banned if the other way around, so should be ridiculed.

    Too much knife crime, encouraged by a state which treats father’s badly if relationships split. Father’s for justice are largely correct.

    Anti car driver persecution, anti the real workers.

    Policies which take too much power from the individual and give it to various arms of the state.

    Policies which have encouraged sink estates to form and remain as traps as it’s almost impossible to escape once you find yourself on one, and worse your kids cannot escape because the schools are so bad.

    Dom Cummings has a lot of his analysis correct, he is wrong on some of it, like his views on immigration of supposedly highly skilled, cos like most of the political class he has little real world experience.

    But labour have completely failed to listen to anyone in the real world.

    Etc

    • Mark B
      Posted December 27, 2019 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      The Political Class are not bothered by MASS IMMIGRATION since none of those coming in are likely to become an MP anytime soon. 😉

  48. Chris S
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

    I won’t talk about class because that’s an old fashioned concept that hardly applies in the 21st century.

    However, to win a general election, Labour has to appeal to Middle England as well as their (former) heartlands which are the post-industrial areas of the North including Scotland and Wales.

    The only leader to successfully accomplish that was Blair whose personality and policies were such that the small-c conservative voters of Middle England didn’t see him as a threat to their way of life. They therefore either acquiested or voted for him.

    The electoral numbers now look daunting, even for Blair, especially when the promised boundary changes have been introduced. It seems unlikely that they can rescue the situation in Scotland where seats have always made a big contribution to a Labour majority.

    After the planned boundary changes and if Scotland was to leave the UK, it is hard to see how any Labour leader could ever winning a majority.

    The vast majority of English voters are patriotic and believe in our Country – that extends to a lot more than the 17.4m that voted for Brexit. Yet after Corbyn and McDonnell, Labour seems intent on continuing to follow their far left agenda now that the party is so firmly in the grip of Momentum and their Marxist fellow travellers.

    I fear there will be no credible opposition for many years – certainly not while the Labour party continues to believe that it’s the electorate that’s wrong and their Marxist agenda is right.

    As long as Boris continues to occupy the centre ground, like Blair, it’s hard to see Labour gaining power for a decade at the very least.

    • Mark B
      Posted December 27, 2019 at 10:08 am | Permalink

      The only leader to successfully accomplish that was Blair . . .

      Blair, Brown and Mandelson, along with others, changed the name (New Labour), got rid of Clause 4, worked the MSM (especially Murdoch) and doubled down on the Looney-Left in their party. They were also helped by a divided Conservative Party that presided over an economic slump. In short, the planets aligned for Blair and New Labour and they were seen as electable again.

  49. Robert Evans
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

    Fast forward 5 years to the next General Election in 2024, the current Labour leadership and the backlash by the electorate against the antics of the most recent ‘remain’ parliament will no longer be issues. Small steps that may make a big difference in Labour’s future prospects may include –
    1. Electing a moderate leader
    2. Refraining from the temptation to re-run another EU referendum (to rejoin)
    3. Promising to hold income tax rates and thresholds (in real terms at least) rather than pursuing entrepeneurs and employment creators with vindictive rates of taxation.
    4. Offer something affordable and fair to younger voters such as reducing student loan interest rates to the CPI rate of inflation.
    5. Reflecting, not on their 2019 election loss, but instead their 1997 victory and learn some positive lessons instead.

    • Chris S
      Posted December 26, 2019 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

      We already know that those holding the power at the top of Labour are determined to continue their far left agenda. They won’t go for a moderate of any kind that would win over Middle England.

      Such are their delusions that I don’t think the party will change, possibly even after losing the next two general elections.

  50. glen cullen
    Posted December 26, 2019 at 10:52 pm | Permalink

    It didn’t really matter why the working class labour voters voted to leave the EU in the referendum, but rather that their vote was ignored by labour

    The reason they turned their back on the labour party was because they took away the only thing that meant something to them

    As for Jeremy Corbyn they saw him as an establishment turncoat, a person who had all his political career support the idea of leaving the EU to change him mind when he became PM

    As I said 3 years ago the labour party could have easily won the general election by backing the referendum……simply really they just ignored their voters

    • Mark B
      Posted December 27, 2019 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      glen

      Beautiful, succinct and, bang on the money !

      Well said, sir !

      🙂

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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