Migration

Yesterday the government released more details of the new Immigration system it plans to come into effect on 1 January 2021 when we are finally out of the EU Implementation period.

The aim is to reduce numbers coming to the UK by preventing people coming to the UK to look for a low paid job, or coming to the UK to take up a pre arranged UK job at a low salary. This should make quite a difference to numbers which in turn will take some of the pressure off social housing and public service provision.

The points system will require an individual to have 70 points. 50 points are awarded for someone who can speak English, has a job offer and some skills. The additional 20 points come from appraisal of skills, qualifications, salaries and professional training. Speaking English will be a requirement for all to meet.

There will be clear routes for new NHS staff to be recruited and granted an NHS Visa, for students to come to Universities on a Student Visa and for top talent in science and maths to get easy access.

Anyone under the general scheme must have a job paying more than £25,600 a year unless they have a job offer in a field identified as a shortage area where special temporary factors may apply.

This looks like a good improvement on open borders under the EU scheme. Employers will have to pay a bit more to attract local talent. They need to spend more on raising productivity to justify better pay. This can be done through better training and or through investment in computer and machine power to raise output per employee.

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211 Comments

  1. Cheshire Girl
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:37 am | Permalink

    When this plan was announced, there was an outcry from the usual suspects ie: the Media etc.

    This seems like a flexible scheme that will cater for the skills we need. If people think it is difficult to get into the UK, they should try getting into some other Countries. Many years ago, my late Husband’s company applied for a visa for him. It took two years to get it. His Company had to prove he was going to do a job, that they could not find an American to do. It was very specialised. I’m sure some other countries apply the same rules.

    There are some people in the UK, who are determined that immigration should not be reduced in any way.

    • agricola
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      Ref CG last sentence. We await a load of statistics, dubious references and expert opinion from our resident trolls. It is always interesting to see the level of thinking out there.

      • Robert McDonald
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

        Well, we had a lot of Abbot on TV yesterday giving her expert opinion in attempted damnation of the immigration control plans. I switched off after a minute.

      • Hope
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:47 am | Permalink

        JR, There is no evidence whatsoever in what you claim. A think tank has already claimed it will increase immigration and some of the phrases used are flexible to increase the number. Many intelligent commentators already calling it a sham. Same mass immigration policy with a new name. Johnson was at pains to point out he i.e. Pro immigration. But look at the facts: your govt could have complied with its policy last year to keep under 100,000 but CHOSE not to by about 160,000 from outside the EU! How do measure succes if the govt will not set targets? How many immigrants are allowed each year? Australia has a target figure. Stop being specious and deal in fact.

        Suggest you start looking at the alarming belt and road project of China that your 2 former and current PM supports. It is a road to disaster. Other countries (Sri Lanka, Greece etc) were forced to hand over national infrastructure to China because of failure to pay the debt. Hinkley is one stupid example, offer to build HS2 another. Stop Haewei before our country is too entangled to get out. Why was Cameron allowed to lead the Chinese belt and road fund?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:31 am | Permalink

      Indeed the lefties on the BBC suggesting the term “unskilled” or the earnings cap is a huge insult to about half the population. The main thing is that the UK has regained control and can adjust the points system as is needed to balance the needs of the people and of the economy.

      • Hope
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

        Yes, but JR has not explained why the govt would expect anyone to come here to earn less than those on benefit or family members of EU citizens who have aright to come here and a right to their court?

        Similarly school age was raised to reduce unemployment, will it be lowered to take up some of the jobs these immigrants take?

        Patel,stated 8.4 million people not economically active what does she mean?

        When the elderly parents of EU citizens rock up for elederly care-hospital and benefits like winter fuel allowance having not paid a penny into out tax pot will they be refused housing etc?

    • NickC
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

      Cheshire Girl, That’s because many other countries take the view that it is preposterous that a nation of 66m cannot produce sufficient labour for itself. And they are right.

      • Otto
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

        NickC – yes quite right. I often ask people is Denmark with a population of 4 million crying out to have one of 60+ million? Same goes for Switzerland and all Scandinavian countries and I don’t think they are suffering from being underpopulated.

        If I had a wonderful economic project which would increase GDP but I needed 50 million workers to get it going could I import them OK as it would boost the economy?

    • Christine
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:58 am | Permalink

      These changes may improve the pay for the low paid unskilled British workforce but they will have a severe impact on the well paid skilled workers. Taking the visa quota away will cause a flood of lower paid skilled workers from Asia, particularly in the IT industry. Having worked in IT I’ve seen this happen previously. Without a cap on numbers skilled wages will fall and this will have a knock on effect across our economy. Yet again our Government hasn’t thought this through and British citizens will suffer. We need to train our own people. We need to ensure our own people get priority access to training courses before places can be offered to others.

    • forthurst
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

      Skills we need? What are our universities for?

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

        To maintain the lifestyles of vice chancellors and lecturers and to give HR departments an easy filter

  2. Lifelogic
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    Forcing everyone to speak English is not all that sensible. Many jobs do not need much English and people will learn what they need to once here. Such a local language rule would prevent me moving to any country other an English speaking one. I doubt if my rusty French and restaurant Italian would be sufficient.

    There is also a lower salary limit of only just over £20K that can apply. Someone earning £20k or even £25K will not be paying much in tax and NI. They will need housing, roads, police, healthcare, schools possibly they are quite likely to still be a net liability on the state.
    This might be OK for a young person likely to earn more later but rather less acceptable for an older person.

    We should also consider the capital these people have, their age, their dependents and health. Furthermore we should retain the right to remove them later should problems arise.

    • NickC
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:55 am | Permalink

      Lifelogic, I agree about the proficiency in English requirement – a factory worker may not need much English, a nurse needs excellent English.

      Actually I would call a moratorium on all immigration (not just net) for a few years, to allow the country to recover and assimilate the massive influx during the last two decades.

      In answer to the wails from business that “we cannot get the staff” my reply is “well, train the ones you have, and invest in automation”. The idea that a population of 66m (nearer 75m in reality) is insufficient to meet our skills needs is risible, and an indictment of our woke education system.

    • a-tracy
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

      What level of English conversation is required, will there be an exam?
      Why are our government requiring this, is it because the figures we have to pay to translation services for all government documents and to take care of people in the NHS and Courts etc. is getting too expensive?
      I would like to know what difference it makes to us if someone can’t speak English and chooses to live here? Aren’t they responsible for paying for their own help if they need it?
      If it stops them getting a job surely they aren’t entitled to benefits and if they are why?

  3. dixie
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    How will this effect contract staff, specifically those companies importing IT staff via offshore contracts?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      Well it is very easy to export IT work anyway. I suspect they will continue to be under cut one way or another. I had a friend who ran an IT business with about 3 people in London and about 30 in India doing most of the work at about 20% of the UK cost.

      It will not affect contract staff much at all I suspect.

      • dixie
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

        Thank you for taking time out of your busy commentary schedule (33% of all comments placed by 08:08) but this does not address my question which was directed towards our host.

        The issue is companies bringing in low-cost staff via contracts rather than investing in local people and also allowing skills and technologies to leak away.

        Though, true to form you appear to believe cost is the sole factor.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

          Cost is the driving factor for businesses. They have to compete in whatever system, however daft, as pertains or they go bust or get taken over. It is not good politicians telling business to pay more out of the kindness of their hearts. They would largely be committing suicide if it does not make commercial sense.

          • dixie
            Posted February 21, 2020 at 6:25 am | Permalink

            If you allow your skills, technologies and techniques to be leached away and transfer elsewhere your business fails, it doesn’t matter if the costs were advantageous.

            If the reason for your business is to actually leach off a community and transfer it’s skills and abilities to a lower cost site what use are you to that community and why should I support your business? If your aim is to still sell the product to the local community then your driver is not cost at all, it is your profit and you have not paid the true cost in loss of jobs and skills people had invested in.

      • jerry
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

        @LL; “Well it is very easy to export IT work anyway.”

        Well yes, but not always sensible to do so, especially if sensitive/personal data in concerned, the same applies to call centres – thankfully, many of the utility and telecoms companies are finally waking up to this.

        • steve
          Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

          jerry

          The DVLA has been doing it for years.

          • jerry
            Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

            @Steve; Your point being what, exactly?

      • Fred H
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

        unlike IR35.

  4. Lord Mann
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    Could you give us an estimate of how much can now be saved from spending on the benefits system? Obviously the release of millions of jobs previously done by low wage immigrants means those jobs can and must be filled by Brits, and so we have to make deep cuts on benefits so that such people have incentives to take on work rather than stay at home. I am pleased Mr Tebbit’s plan to get people on their bikes is finally taking shape!

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:24 am | Permalink

      Alas I see no evidence of a Tebbit plan what so ever yet! You have to make work pay relative to not working for all who are able to work. The difference needs to be quite significant as there are quite significant costs of getting to and from work, childcare perhaps too, plus you have far less time to shop efficiently or do other things for yourself.

      • Hope
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

        So immigrants are expected to work here for less than people here on benefits! Some system?

        For reason JR expects us to believe his govt will not lie anymore than it has over the past ten years, elction manifestos
        and three elections!

    • jerry
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      @Lord Mann; You assume the unemployed worker lives were the work is, sure the unemployed could move but would that not cause the same housing & public service problem to the existing locals as migrants do?

      In any case Lord Tebbit’s 1981 comments about his father looking for work were as much in reply to riots as unemployment, he did not claim of his father that I grew up in the ’30s with an unemployed father. He didn’t riot. He got on his bike and moved us all around the country, and kept doing so till he found work – No his actual words were;

      I grew up in the ’30s with an unemployed father. He didn’t riot. He got on his bike and looked for work, and he kept looking till he found it.

      Something quite different, jobs were local, especially unskilled work (not that I’m claiming Tebbit’s father did such work, although I suspect he would have done anything he could)…

  5. Lifelogic
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:06 am | Permalink

    I would also question the special exemptions for the NHS only. The funding of the NHS already kills nearly all real competition. Any NHS exemptions for medical staff should apply universally.

    UK’s post-Brexit immigration plan includes points for PhDs. There are PhDs and PhDs. Almost anyone who can afford the fees and has a little time can obtain a PhD from many universities. There are many bright people with no degrees or just a first degree and many daft people with long lists of PhDs, MBA, MA and similar. An intelligence test like the UKCAT/BMAT ones might be a far better and fairer more egalitarian method of judging potential.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:47 am | Permalink

      Even Gordon Brown (History, Edinburgh) and Vince Cable (Economics, Glasgow) and Caroline Lucas (English, Exeter) manage to obtain PhDs and these were from fairly respectable universities. Freeman Dyson did not. I rest my case.

    • JoolsB
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:05 am | Permalink

      Of course if John and his colleagues abolished their discriminatory tuition fees against England’s Medical students providing they work for the NHS for a minimum number of years, we wouldn’t have to poach Doctors from third world countries and elsewhere.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

        Only about 50% of UK trained doctors go on to work for the NHS as it is a rather poor employer to work for and rather dysfunctional. They prefer to go to Australia, New Zealand or similar where they are treated rather better or just to work in the city, being paid rather more for a rather easier and safer job.

        As it cost about £500K to train them this is rather a large waste of tax payers money. But then that is what government is very good at. Then they import often inferiorly trained doctors from overseas. Depriving these countries of them.

        It is also rather idiotic the way they train doctors. They are expected to know about the whole body. Can we not just train hip and knee surgeons, eye surgeons, abdominal surgeons, triage doctors, cancer specialist etc. directly. No need for it to take nearly 10 years before they become surgeons or GPs.

        Engineers on aircraft ejector seats or rudders do not have to know everything about the whole of the aircraft to do their job after all. They might take advice on other areas when or if needed!

        • margaret
          Posted February 22, 2020 at 1:35 am | Permalink

          No we need all rounders . All systems impact on each other and when things start to go wrong co -morbidities play a great part in the continuation of life and recovery. Orthopaedic problems can be linked to metabolic conditions, metabolic conditions linked to eye problems …, the list is endless . We all have the same viscera (in most cases) which interact and are finely tuned. Nurse training for example in was based upon physiology , disease and drugs , but today medics concentrate on research thereby sidelining the basic needs of individuals in relation to their health. They see patient contact as beneath them. The training does not stop . It is a daily pursuit throughout life. In my 50 years of practising Nursing medicine , there has not been a day when I did not learn , relearn or revisit.It always amazes me when a young Dr is given more credibility because of his label than someone who has been doing and learning the job for years . The silly labelling and credit given to exams where students are picked because thy can remember facts at ‘A’ levels and that self same criteria is used for admission to medical school is an unsafe method of proof of ability to practice.

    • glen cullen
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

      You are correct, PhD’s have become an irrelevant and an excuse to continue university life at the expense of the tax-payer. Universitites will accept and pass any PhD student bacause its easy money.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        Not all of them. Perhaps 20% in the UK are on sensible subjects, important and of quality.

        • glen cullen
          Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

          Maybe 5% have real world application and 5% have potential original research application but 90% are just…..an excuse to stay at university

          There was a time when doing a PhD meant something now it just a vehicle to writing academic papers and becoming a lecturer

          • Fred H
            Posted February 22, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

            The majority pick an obscure subject, possibly no-one knows if ever researched before. They do demonstrate an intense scrutiny of that chosen subject and have to impress the panel who will award the doctorate. Mostly the work is of little use to anyone beyond that.

  6. Lifelogic
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    “Ofsted fears poorly managed schools will ‘squander’ extra cash. Chief inspector makes warning over waste ahead of £14bn boost for education in next month’s Budget.”

    Reported in the Telegraph today. Probably true, but one could say this of almost every government department certainly defence, the police, the NHS, transport, women and equality, energy and climate change (in spades), DEFRA, local authorities, the treasury, overseas aid, the office of tax simplification ……

    This is why tax cuts are a much better plan. Alas it seems that although the mansion tax has gone other tax raid on pensions and elsewhere are still on the cards. This from the current absurdly over taxed position already.

    • DOMINIC
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:44 am | Permalink

      More spending on social indoctrination now masquerading as education. Another Tory capitulation to Labour’s client state. Governments and politicians abusing the taxpayer to signal virtue is utterly abhorrent

    • Nig l
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      The good news is that the leaks to the DM (Home Secretary making unreasonable demands) and the DT (Cummings and a ‘Network of spies’ in fact no more than a project performance based approach) show that at last the Cabinet are being expected to do what has been the norm in the private sector for umpteen years.

      Obviously the snow flake blob is feeling the pressure. If they don’t like it they can p*** off, see what the real world is like and we can get new people in with both the right attitude and talent.

      • Nig l
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

        Ps really good article in the DT by Sherelle Jacobs about Cummings. Yes indeed the public gets it/him. We do want change/improvement rather than the dysfunctional muddling along that we have at present.

        If that means no space for mediocrity, strewth we have had enough from both politicians and civil servants over the years, good.

  7. Iain Gill
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:16 am | Permalink

    And I notice that the equality and human rights commission never tackles blatant racism by whole industries when it’s the white working class who are the victims.
    Political class need to get a grip, those rules need to protect everyone equally.

  8. Mick
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:28 am | Permalink

    It’s about time to we had a proper system to regulate who comes here, I’m getting abit fed up of all the negativity coming from the lab/libs that the construction/ health/agriculture sector are going to suffer if we don’t have a open border for a free for all, we seem to have managed perfectly well pre 2004 with work visas before Blair open the floodgates, the only difference is that employers weren’t training people up and the bone idle were allowed to refuse employment, so that’s what Boris should do is get the employers to start intensive training which in my view should have started post the 2016 referendum and force the bone idle back into work

  9. James Strong
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:35 am | Permalink

    The point made by commenter Lifeogic at 5.50am about it not being necessary to s;pea English for some jobs is correct as far as it goes.
    But immigration is not just about the economy.
    An inability to speak English keeps someone out of English-speaking society, confined to their own minority language community within the UK.
    There is nothing good about that, not for the immigrant nor for UK society.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

      Most will pick it up. Not easy to learn English well until you actually live in an English Speaking country.

    • agricola
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:55 am | Permalink

      Well said James. Integration is vital in such a compact society as in the UK. It is the biggest problem we have with one immigrant community that will take a few more generations to achieve. Historically look at all the different communities that have integrated to great mutual benefit. It is the only way to go.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:41 am | Permalink

      So why is it OK then, for the English in Spain to behave like that?

      • Mark
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

        Una cerveza por favor.

      • JohnK
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

        If they are hoping to work in Spain, Spanish is an obvious requirement.

        If they are pensioners who retire to Spain, then they are putting money into the Spanish economy with every euro they spend, not taking any out.

        But then this is obvious to any rational person, unlike you, who simply wastes his time trolling this site with inane observations.

      • agricola
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

        Brits in Spain who do not speak any Spanish miss out. They are confined to sunshine, beer and fish and chips and each others company. It is not ok but that is what they want.

      • Edward2
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

        You assume all the UK people in Spain fail to integrate or try to learn Spanish.
        More unproven generalisation from you Martin.

        • bill brown
          Posted February 22, 2020 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          It sounds about your claims about the EU

          • Edward2
            Posted February 22, 2020 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

            pardon?

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

        They pay their own way Marty C

      • Bob
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

        Are you referring to the tourists or the retired expats?

      • NickC
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

        Because they are retired.

  10. Overtime King
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:40 am | Permalink

    Some employers will not have to offer more. Their present non-migrant staff may very well take the opportunity of any offered overtime, due to staff shortages. One hour extra per day is a quite a percentage in wages. Not easy to employ a migrant for just 5 hours per week.

  11. Ian Wragg
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    It will all be a waste of time until you stop the cross channel ferry service for illegals

    That’s not going to happen.

    • Peter
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      Indeed. Illegal immigration needs to be properly addressed not just ignored.

  12. Mark B
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    I find today’s post disingenuous. The UK could always control the bulk of MASS MIGRATION as is was non-EU immigrants that were making up most of the numbers. We don’t even have to wait to Leave the EU to implement this.

    The salary threshold is set far too low. And what about access to public services such as the NHS ?

    I fear this is just a sham. The Tories, much like Labour have never been serious about cutting MASS IMMIGRATION and I do not believe that this will in any way remedy the situation.

    • Shirley
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      +1

  13. Pragmatist
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    In the hospitality industry, having worked in it, low staff levels increases overtime, being at work, not having to heat ones home, light it, and inevitably not have time to spend ones money on TV movies, external entertainment, the odd chocolate bar bought on a whim, newspaper. It mounts up. Great savings in working more. Also one learns more skills as the extra time can be on reception, bar work, cellar work and a whole host of other duties . Less boring too.

  14. Andy
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Incidentally, I wonder if Spain will now kick out all the retired British ex-pats who don’t speak Spanish?

    I wonder also who will care for all the elderly Brexit voters? I can assure you it mostly won’t be young remainers / rejoiners.

    Wouldn’t it be ironic if you all ended up with nobody to look after you all in your dotage? By ironic I mean funny.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      Why on earth would Spain want to do that. These people bring money in.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

        It’s. Not. About. Money.

        As you keep saying.

        Absolutely right. It isn’t.

    • SM
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

      Oh, I think Spain has quite enough self-inflicted political problems to deal with before taking stupid action against non-Spanish speaking retirees who bring lots of economic activity to their tourist areas!

      Who will care for all the elderly Brexit voters? Anyone who wants a paid job, I should imagine, in the financial, medical, building, decorating, nursing and catering fields, to mention but a few areas.

    • Richard1
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

      Why would they do that? Those people are mostly self-funding and a net benefit to Spain. The UK isn’t talking about kicking anybody out – 3m EU citizens already here have now got permanent residency. You said they’d all leave or be kicked out. Wrong again.

      The proposals look quite sensible to me. They also highlight the absurdity of those like you who say it’s xenophobic to want to leave the EU – all that’s happening is the same rules are being applied equally to people wherever they come from.

    • Robert McDonald
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      My sons will take care of me if necessary, they voted to leave as they think of the future with ambition not with bigotry. Young leavers, you of course won’t meet any of them in your closed world.

    • Edward2
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      They won’t get kicked out Andy.
      That is because they are already resident.
      Just like the millions we have here from the EU.
      The rules apply after Jan2021 to new applications.

      There are 70 million people in the UK so I reckon there is enough here to find some willing to be care workers.
      Especially if their currently poor wages rise to a decent fair level or employees start to do some training and develop some new qualified care workers.

    • The Anti Andy
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      I agree.

      It’s appalling that someone should move to a country and not bother to speak the native language. It’s nice to be able to say it, finally.

      The answer to an ageing population never was to stuff the country full of unqualified people. Mr Blair and successive Prime Ministers were told time and again to moderate immigration but ignored it and caused Brexit.

      What’s really funny is your daily temper tantrums.

      You rubbed our noses in diversity ? Well we’re rubbing your nose in Brexit.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

        You really have nothing else, do you?

        • The Anti Andy
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

          What on earth did you think was going to happen ?

    • NickC
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:28 am | Permalink

      Andy, Your bile and hatred are wonders to behold. And you’re still having problems with numbers too. The YouGov poll after the Referendum shows that only 14% of voters were elderly (65+) Leave voters. It seems you middle-class middle-aged Remains just weren’t educated very well in arithmetic.

    • Christine
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      Why would they kick out the British pensioners? Spain makes a huge amount of money from pensioner tourism. Healthcare for the British pensioners is charged back to the NHS. Any foreign citizen who wants residency who is under pension age has to have private healthcare and 7k in a Spanish bank with no recourse to their benefit system. You just have a downer on old folk.

    • Fred H
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

      are they employed out there? I think they pay for things that keep basic essentials going, locals would go out of business and create more unemployed Spanish!

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

        You’re moving the goalposts as ever, Fred.

        The point was about fluency in the vernacular and non-integration.

        • Edward2
          Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

          The real question is whether Spain will throw out the UK community.
          It seems they are a profitable lot and Spain will want to keep them.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted February 21, 2020 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

            So are the UK’s immigrants, especially those from the European Union.

            Your point is?

          • Edward2
            Posted February 21, 2020 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

            Well you have been posting saying Spain will kick out UK ex pats.
            My point us that Spain is very unlikely to do this.
            And the UK has already stated that existing European nationals in the UK will be able to stay.
            Got it now?

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

          Volume Marty, volume.

        • NickC
          Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

          Martin, The fluency is required to do a job properly in the host country. Those that are retired do not need fluency because they’re not working. Duh . . . .

    • steve
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      “Wouldn’t it be ironic if you all ended up with nobody to look after you all in your dotage?”

      That is the fate awaiting you, unless you start being nice.

      I very much doubt you will enter your final years not depending on others. Then you can be a whinging pensioner, whinging about pensioners……irony or what !

  15. A silver lining
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    In hotels, pubs with meals, staff contrive to eat more cheaply because to an owner or landlord given the wholesale price of food it is something which often he or she provides for staff . There is tremendous waste in preparing food anyway which is not sold on time. It gets thrown away by the bin load. Yes, everyone is shocked. Fried fish for example cannot be saved. Good food! Working more hours gets more tips across the board too. Less migrants or competing staff does not make everyone unhappy. Leads to a stable number of staff. Customers like to see ‘family’ when they go to the pub. Someone to talk to who they know.
    Many a barman knows a customer’s life history and exactly why he divorced. A shoulder to cry on.

  16. agricola
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    This seems a good basic plan. No doubt it will have weaknesses to be found in practice and will therefore need to be modified. I recognise you have to start somewhere. I have assumed that seasonal workers in the farming industry will be covered by short term visas.

    To date I have heard nothing on the subject of all the illegals already in situ in the UK, convicted criminals of none UK origin on completion of sentence, or those who circumvent our immigration rules.

    Asylum seekers should do so by contacting the UK embassy in the first safe country they enter. If wanted we should bring them to the UK by any safe means. If not they can always apply to the country they find themselves in, as is the convention.

  17. Old Albion
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    A welcome step in the right direction. Naturally the Left and the media whinge and moan. Businessmen and women whine that they won’t have enough (cheap) labour.
    I believe we have around one million unemployed in the (dis)UK. Time to ‘encourage’ them into the workplace.

    • NickC
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:31 am | Permalink

      Old Albion, And businesses can train and retrain their existing UK workers. And simplify their processes. And automate. Fewer immigrants, higher productivity. Result.

  18. Dave Andrews
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:20 am | Permalink

    To my mind, the propositions don’t go far enough. We should have a system where we accept 1,000 people from any particular country, provided they accept 1,000 British. No problem with migration from the US, Canada, Australia or New Zealand, as many British people look to those countries as a destination. We still need a system on top which people coming here have to comply with, so they need a valid reason for coming to the UK and their outlook is compatible with our society (not criminals, and don’t look down on women as chattels).
    No xenophobia, just fair exchange.

  19. Moderate
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    Oh, possibly not fully appreciated by some… Tories, the worker in hospitality industries has a much better boss when staffing is short. And, the boss has a much more stable employee. Ask any publican. Staff do not stay for very long and the boss cannot increase overtime for everyone if he has too many staff. The boss would argue he needs too many.

  20. Ian @Barkham
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

    To many, or probably just the MsM is making to much of how we control the amount of incomers.

    People arriving to a pre arrange job cant be that bad. However, those that force themselves on the country, that used to be called illegal’s, should not be made welcome.

    The primary reason for saying that is that they are que jumpers. They are steeling places from those with a genuine need to seek asylum via legitimate routes.

    We are told the EU is a safe place so escaping from it to force yourselves on others is surely a criminal offence.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      No, being in the UK without lawful authority is a civil wrong, not a criminal offence, as in most civilised countries.

      Or would you like it if you, say, would be thrown in prison in e.g. Italy, if you had your passport stolen?

      • Edward2
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

        Rubbish its not a civil offence.
        Get your facts right, yet again.
        You can be arrested and detained if you are an illegal immigrant or have overstated in the UK.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 10:46 am | Permalink

          There is no such thing as a “civil offence”.

          • Edward2
            Posted February 21, 2020 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

            Pedantic.
            You said civil wrong.
            We both know what you mean.

            And you were still wrong originally.

      • NickC
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

        Martin, Having your passport stolen does not make your visit unlawful.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

          No, would you like it if it did, as some would appear to want for those without documents?

  21. Shirley
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    Will the lower paid (or unemployed) immigrants who pass immigration criteria be able to claim benefits and free NHS, schooling, etc? The wage threshold is fairly low, especially if they have dependent families. Will we still be paying child benefit for children not in the UK?

    Reply Benefit entitlement is not automatic. They will gain it if and when they get the right to reside here permanently, usually after 5 years.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply

      When did that change Sir John?

      My wife got child benefit for her child (my stepchild) after around one year. She is not European. There were no checks in the application process that suggested to me we couldn’t have received it sooner.

  22. villaking
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    The biggest concern arising from this ill judged move is in the care sector where many thousands of care workers are from overseas and most will not qualify for 70 points. Please can you explain how output per care worker will be raised by investing in computers and machines?

    Reply That is how productivity is raised. You can now tell the hoover to hoover the carpet without having to push it and control its every move for example. You can have much better patient records on an electronic system which will automatically alert that drugs should be administered and will deliver the right pills at the right time to the nurse. Etc etc

    • margaret howard
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

      Reply to reply

      So when will we invent a machine that sits and listens and comforts a distraught elderly patient or indeed attends to their more basic needs like spoon feeding and wiping bottoms?

      • Edward2
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

        If they are short of staff wages will rise to encourage applicants.
        You against the increase of wages for care workers now Margaret?

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

        “We need immigrants to wipe our bottoms” is not the most compelling argument for immigration Maggie. It also suggests that you regard these people as inferior.

        Isn’t that what your mob say about our current Prime Minister?

        Shame on you!

        • margaret howard
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

          Narrow Shoulders

          “.It also suggests that you regard these people as inferior”

          Inferior? Just the opposite. I have the greatest admiration for them.

          Just as I have for people from the poorer parts of Eastern Europe who are prepared to bend over in East Anglian fields on a miserable winter’s day to harvest our sprouts and cauliflowers. I wouldn’t have liked to do that even in my youth nor do most of our citizens here hence the need to bring in ‘foreign’ labour.

          I won’t even go into the shocking cases of exploitation by gangmasters and the like who control their earnings and often house them in appalling conditions often in rickety old caravans.

          Finally I don’t know what other members of ‘my mob’ say about our new Prime Minister nor whether they agree with me that we have a proven liar at the helm.

          • Edward2
            Posted February 21, 2020 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

            Saves the farmer investing in modern machinery having min wage labour come in from poorer countries.
            Yet you think it is a good thing.

            No wonder our productivity is so low.

      • NickC
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

        Margaret H, The notion that a country of 66m (in reality nearer 75m) doesn’t have sufficient workers is simply daft. Example of a technological solution to a previously mind-numbingly tedious mass production manual job – placing half a glace cherry on an iced bun. Thus releasing a manual worker for employment elsewhere. Seriously, you Remains seem to whinge first, and think after – if at all.

      • Fred H
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

        indeed….and will offer a few comforting sentences when a friend or relative struggles to cope with the grief of the predicament the patient is in.

    • Otto
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

      ‘You can have much better patient records on an electronic system which will automatically alert that drugs should be administered and will deliver the right pills at the right time to the nurse. Etc etc’

      When will that happen? Who would trust that? I went to my GP nurse today to have blood taken for tests. I forgot to take my form (yes, stupid) which had 6 tests to be done listed. No problem – the nurse downloaded that form with my name on it but had only one test listed on it. So now have to go to the hospital to complete the blood samples.

  23. BeebTax
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

    In tandem with this, will we double down on illegal immigration?

    For example, anyone who’s entered here illegally cannot themselves make an application at some later date to gain migrant status under our new scheme, and cannot rely on family members who have gained, or gain, legal access to get entry for themselves at any future date.

    And more investment in rooting out rogue employers who hire illegals.

    • Mick
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      Agree with what you are saying BeebTax we should also introduce a I.D card system to make it easier to see who should be here or not

    • glen cullen
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:28 am | Permalink

      I agree…there is also another loophole where foreign students can stay after there degree to find work or further study. They disappear in the system. Following any course that student should return to their own country to re-apply and be assessed from there.

  24. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    There have been the usual complaints from business (and the worthy) about filling low skilled, low paid jobs.

    If these jobs don’t pay enough for someone already in the country to want to do then how is it good for the economy to import someone to do it?

    These imported workers then need to be supported by benefits in order to survive. How does that raise everyone’s standard of living.

    I sympathise with business requiring staff but the disabled have an employment rate of around 50%. That is 1,000,000 potential employees who would like to work if simple adjustments are made. Their standard of living should increase if they work so the disability payments can be protected. To encourage business we could pay a therapeutic wage and bump up the take home with disability benefits to make sure disabled workers are better off in work.

    The benefits system should also be revised at the same time we are reducing immigration. It must not pay more to stay at home than to work and getting back on to benefits needs to be easier. I understand that is the aim of the (generous) universal credit system but this has proved overly complex to roll out so immediate tweaks to tax credits can achieve the same thing.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      Does someone who has difficultly learning foreign languages count as “disabled” I wonder. If so they could demand that their employer make special provisions for them and the insistence on immigrants all speaking English would be clear discrimination against people with this disability. Employer’s might however be too busy buying a new fridge for the vegan they employ or doing their gender pay reporting forced on them by Theresa May!

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

        If speaking English was a requirement to do the job @LL then it wouldn’t be discrimination even if the applicant had a learning disability.

        So for example an adjustment to take instructions from your boss in a language your boss does not speak would not be reasonable and therefore no discrimination.

        There is no need to fear discrimination claims. Just be reasonable about the adjustments that can be made. It’s beneficial for all.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 6:57 am | Permalink

          Except no one knows what “reasonable adjustments” means one judge thinks one thing another one another. All these adjustments cost time and money and lower productivity.

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted February 21, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

            Actually adjustments are generally low cost and increase productivity @LL.

            Most people acquire their disability during their lifetimes. I am sure you would provide adjustments for yourself if such hardship befell you. And rightly so you are a valuable asset to your company

    • a-tracy
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      The type of companies I have read complaining are those in the care industry. Many disabled people would be unable to do a lot of those jobs because of the nature of the work, carrying, washing and helping people to dress and get ready for bed they say, perhaps these jobs need to be further split down and a higher hourly rate for those with lifting and heavy work skills and a lower grade of pay for those just delivering meals or changing dressings and cleaning the home. We should be asking what wages are they paying? What is expected from the jobs, who is currently on the unemployment register can any of them undertake training to fill the gaps the Country needs.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

        Disability takes many forms a-tracy. Your listed tasks above are well within the capability of lots of disabled people especially will some simple adjustments.

        There is talent out there given a chance.

        • a-tracy
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

          I didn’t want to imply that care tasks aren’t well within the capability of lots of disabled people, I actually agree with you that we need to manage these two things hand in glove, anybody unemployed and unable to find a job and those jobs we are told people (including the disabled people) just aren’t applying for. Then discovering what mechanical aids would not just help the patient but could also then create a new pathway into work for people that could do parts of the job such as helping people to eat, take their medication etc. without the manual handling, heavy lifting elements. The good thing about the care industry is that they could accommodate flexible part-time working, split shifts etc.

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted February 22, 2020 at 9:48 am | Permalink

            Thank you a-tracy.

            I susepct that the reason disabled people are not applying for these jobs is because they do not feel they will be welcomed and that those adjustments made.

            It is up to the care companies (and others) to make it clear that those adjustments will be considered and made if appropriate. That will encourage applications.

  25. Everhopeful
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    In the past employers took far more responsibility for their workers. Often wages were made up “in kind” with the provision of housing, fuel, food and medical care.
    These benefits were dropped as the leftist welfare state took over.
    What was forgotten however, was that as housing became more and more expensive (aided by employers selling off tied homes), low wages would become problematic. So cutting cabbages was no longer even possible because the wages earned could not cover the private rental/mortgage.
    And council houses were sold off as votebait.
    Naturally enough young or desperate people were prepared to rough it in dire accommodation for wages in a currency worth 5 x that of their home country.
    And farmers had little problem in providing mobile homes for their new workers.
    If employers want low wage workers they must be made responsible for them…like they used to be before the explosion in Welfare!

    • Matt
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:01 am | Permalink

      They must also be made responsible for the unemployed people they preferred to displace by paying below welfare levels. And for their employees whose wages are topped up by welfare to living standards.

      We would be better off without such employers.

      They CAUSED the explosion in welfare.

    • a-tracy
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      I’ve been in business for the past 36 years, I disagree Everhopeful, employers have never had to take so much responsibility for their employees.

      Small business owners hiring have to perform total eligibility to work checks.

      Costs on wages include 13.8% Employers NI over the Primary Threshold (PT) £166 per week,£719 per month, £8,632 per year. What is this if not a contribution to their medical care and it used to be their State pension!
      Class 1A Employers NI contribution on all benefits in kind including fuel, food etc.
      Sick pay, SPL, SMP, SAL etc. plus full holiday pay during the period of leave as well as paying the holiday pay for the replacement worker who is covering their role.
      You meet the NMW, NLW criteria and keep all records for six years this is going up 6.5% this year.
      You have all the PAYE digital payroll software costs and upgrade and training.
      You pay NEST 3% Employer Contribution and have to do all of the processing of letters updates, enquiries, set up etc of this scheme.
      Occupational Health checks if someone suddenly decides they can’t perform part of their job, make changes even if they are impossible to make you have to work through a process taking months and at great expense.
      Apparently now you are not supposed to ask if someone has the capabilities of undertaking the job until after you offer them the job and can only start the process of medical checks once they start work, if they then announce they can’t do a, b or c
      then you would have to go through a ‘medical capability dismissal process’/
      In what way are employers not responsible enough!

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 8:28 am | Permalink

        On your occ health and capability complaints a-tracy it seems you do not have the confidence to say no to unreasonable requests.

        If the requests are reasonable why not do them to employ and retain good staff? If they are unreasonable and can not work for a company of your size you can say no or redeploy.

        With new staff that is what probation discovers. They may be wonderful but can’t do a small part of the role. If someone else can cover while they do more of something else why not go with it? If that is not reasonable and they can’t do the job that will come out in probation.

        The government Disability Confidence scheme can put you in touch with organisations who can advise on this as can any good employment lawyer.

        • a-tracy
          Posted February 22, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

          We have advisors and employment lawyers and schemes.

        • a-tracy
          Posted February 22, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

          Also Narrow Shoulders redeploy where, can I ask if you are an employer and if so how many workers do you employ? There are only so many jobs you can’t quickly magic work up.

      • Fred H
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

        no wonder small businesses fail, or they take on contractors.
        Red tape and taxation!

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted February 22, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

          Or fail because they overlook good staff when faced with small inconveniences Fred.

          There is plenty of help out there (staff and advice) if business is open minded.

          • a-tracy
            Posted February 22, 2020 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

            How do you know they are small inconveniences, I currently have several people wanting what they think are reasonable exemptions but that are becoming onerous on the business meaning certain workers are working lots of overtime and are very productive, whilst others are not productive and not capable of working the hours they are being paid for and are now saying they are unable to complete the duties they were hired to perform. The insistence that we keep them in jobs they are no longer capable of conducting meaning contracts cannot be covered could end up with a loss of that business and potential redundancies. If we hire another capable worker in the team that would result in a lower share of work for them and then even more reduced productivity.

  26. Javelin
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    It appears Priti is meeting resistance from within the Home Office. As a private sector I would strong advise she needs a couple of independent HR lawyers to start going through due process of having civil servants sacked.

    • Javelin
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      It has often occurred to me that the root of incompetence in the civil service is not that staff can be sacked but that HR and legal are advising civil servants against ministers and do not act independently.

      If Dom Cummings wishes to get a grasp of the civil service he needs to start by restructuring HR and legal to work for the ministers as if they are directors and not for the senior civil servants who are staff.

      • Nig l
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

        Hear hear to both your posts. Trapdoor for Sir Humphrey.

      • NickC
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

        Javelin, Some civil servants at least are fed up with the incompetence of some of their colleagues. Everyone knows who they are, but they cannot be sacked for poor or biased work, only if they transgress pc guidelines. It was ever thus, as Leslie Chapman (Your Disobedient Servant, 1978) found.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

        Just make it so that anyone can be fired (with perhaps a standard redundancy pay off) and no tribunals. Then start clearing out the Augean Stable. Releases all the lawyer and HR people to get a productive jobs too. Plus the workforce would change over night.

        When I listened to a series of interviews of Cabinet Secretaries they all seemed the same to me. Wrong on most things, mainly art graduates, rather lacking logic, financial acumen & numeracy. Thinking far more about the interests of the people they worked with rather than serving the public interest. Also suffering from all the usual state sector group think.

        Rather like many CHIEF police officers seem to in fact

  27. Kevin
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    “for top talent in science and maths to get easy access.”

    This could be helpful if their job is to teach in UK schools. If not, on the face of it, it looks like an opportunity to ignore possible deficiencies in our own education system by importing from countries that have the political and moral will to ensure that their children are taught to a higher standard.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      Hopefully the “scientists” who endlessly push bogus, exaggerated and alarmist, climate science will not be included!

      • JohnK
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

        I imagine that Green Boris will put them at the head of the queue.

      • Bob
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

        “Hopefully the “scientists” who endlessly push bogus, exaggerated and alarmist, climate science will not be included!”

        They’ll be fast tracked!

  28. HJ
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    There is no reason why we should need to continue to import staff for the NHS.

    What is needed is supply side reform within the UK. Access to medical and nursing training is severely constricted in the UK and this is what creates the shortage of medical staff. There is absolutely no shortage of suitable applicants for these courses but most are simply turned away. The government/NHS controls the number of these places unlike in other vital occupations such as engineering where supply can simply adapt to demand.

    Reform is needed.

    • SM
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

      HJ, you are absolutely correct, there was a report this week about irate Scottish parents of would-be medical students with excellent A-level results protesting that their children were being turned away from medical schools in Scotland because a significant proportion of places were reserved for foreign students.

      The Royal Colleges of Medicine should be pleading with the NHS and the Government to increase training places and seriously reduce or abolish fees in return for legally-binding commitments to remain within the UK for a specified period after qualifying.

    • agricola
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      You sound as if you know for more than most of us do. I have heard that the surgical colleges run what might be termed as restrictive trade union type practices. That of course might be a means of ensuring only the really competent operate on us. I do not know. We perhaps need an in depth investigation, but do it quickly because were it to turn on the supply tap it would be at least 15 years before any benefit was felt. For nurses maybe 3 to five years. For the interim we either suffer shortages or we import skills.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

      Indeed very good people indeed are turned away from UK medical schools. Unless you can afford the £35K+ that places like Buckingham Charge. Not only that but about 50% of those who do quality choose not to work for the NHS, go abroad or just get a non medical job. This as the dysfunctional NHS is so unappealing.

      • Fred H
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

        exactly.

    • Matt
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

      There appears to be discrimination in admissions (particularly against white boys) and the costs of qualifying to Doctor leave around £80k of student debt by the time a modest wage is achieved.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

        You are doing well at £80K – £9,250 time 5 or 6 years plus living costs say £15K PA in London plus interest on top, so more like £150K+. Going up at £9K PA in interest too. Your first job might only pay £25K or even less too. Perhaps that is why they get a job in the city as the only way to pay it off and perhaps to buy a house!

    • Bob
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:08 am | Permalink

      “What is needed is supply side reform”

      Some demand side reform would help, and hopefully the govt will convince the NHS to desist with its notion that it is the World Health Service.

      A visitors visa requirement should be proof of adequate medical insurance for the duration of stay.

    • a-tracy
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:51 am | Permalink

      I agree with HJ, far better to train applicants in physiotherapy with uses of their skills in the NHS and the UK care system than sports science that has no job at the end of the training. We need to check if Sports Science degrees have sufficient pathways to work before overly encouraging applicants to train on courses with no end work.

    • glen cullen
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      Why do nurses require an academic degree…it’s a vocational job
      Why is doctors training so long….let them specialise early
      Why is GPs training haphazard….let them train local to where they live

      • Lifelogic
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

        Exactly right. You do not need to know everything about the whole body just to do endless hip, eye, toe or adominal ops.

    • NickC
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:45 am | Permalink

      HJ, That is exactly right. There are plenty of good well qualified UK born applicants for medical training. Importing doctors and nurses is a cover up for failure here by government, the NHS, and the medical unions. The box tickers get what they think is a working item (a doctor or nurse), but patients see incompetence because the imported medical staff cannot communicate in English properly.

    • Christine
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

      I agree reform is needed. Currently UK students are turned away in favour of foreign students because their tution fees aren’t capped and the colleges can easily fill the places for higher fees. The Government needs to give priority to British citizens.

    • forthurst
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

      This is about stopping Englishmen becoming doctors. Medicine is not the only profession in which a criminal cabal are active in replacing Englishmen with women and imported ‘talent’ by deliberately blocking the paths of new entrants. This however is what you expect with the liblabcon party and the haters lurking behind the curtain pulling the strings.

      • Creamed Muck
        Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

        From which poor nations needing doctors will the doctors come?

  29. Mike Wilson
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    BEFORE the discussion about the numbers, can one challenge the assumption that we MUST have an ever increasing population. Every politician starts from this position. Why?

    If the answer is an ageing population needs looking after, surely technology should be releasing people from work so they should be available to work in the care sector.

    A million people every 3 years!!!!! No wonder there is a housing shortage and high house prices and rents. No wonder the roads are crowded and the trains full. No wonder there is a 4 week wait for a doctor’s appointment.

    What is the point of politicians?

    I want to find a bookie that will take my bet that net immigration will not fall to less than 250,000 a year.

  30. The Prangwizard
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    When is the government to to end it’s policy of bringing over illegals from France? And how many of the thousands have been deported? Answers on a postage stamp.

    As for the proposals being outlined here, I suspect there will be so many exemptions and so many pleading of special cases that there will be next to no difference in the overall figures coming. Boris is after all a committed globalist and supporter of the Migrants act that he is just doing a bit of window dressing.

  31. rose
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

    With the salary requirement being reduced and the academic requirement as well; with 9 billion in the pool; aren’t the numbers going to soar? And that is not counting the illegals and the asylum seekers.

  32. jerry
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    The MSM, aka the CBI, was in such a tiswas yesterday about the lack of unskilled labour, but there is a whole untapped resource of such labour in our youth, if only we did not package so many off to University (or even college in some cases), or at least immediately post compulsory education.

    I can’t help thinking, considering the non-viability of the current student loans repayment system, something could not be done to offer partial or fully waved fees if students were to take say a 24 or 36 month gap-year to do some of this unskilled work, and were it is seasonal, further encouragement could be added if they spend their long summer academic break doing such work too. Surely a win, win, win for the economy but more importantly students, money in the bank before going to Uni, waved fees and thus lower or no repayments later in life.

    Some might even realise that a ‘degree’ is not for them…

  33. Everhopeful
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Funny…I can’t find the new “cap” number for immigration. So what’s the limit?
    Not serious about reducing numbers? Just joking…again?

  34. Edward2
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:13 am | Permalink

    The level of wages paid in warehouses, care homes and in agriculture has remained low for many years.
    Often using imported labour at minimum wage.
    This minimum wage paid by the employer is then made up to a living wage by several benefits paid by the State.
    It is time people working hard in these and other areas got a fair days pay for a hard days work.
    Hilarious to see the left being against these straightforward new immigration rules.
    But I suppose they need an impoverished client state as a voter base.
    And greedy employers will have recruit from the 70 million already here or even maybe invest in some labour saving machinery.

  35. Iain Moore
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    Bleatings from industry has severely weakened the Government’s immigration criteria to a point where I don’t think it won’t have much effect on numbers, but I suppose it’s a start. I did notice some Conservative MP’s/Ministers make an argument about robotics and mechanisation, IDS is really good on this point, and something I have raised here several times using the example of the Wimbledon strawberry suppliers efforts to move to mechanisation. To circumvent industries bleatings and addiction to cheap migrant labour, the Government really needs to make robotics/mechanisation a national mission, don’t expect it to happen in a piecemeal way, put the Government’s resources behind the move, not just money, but putting universities and industry together. Post War the Government played a role in the mechanisation in agriculture, something similar needs to be undertaken now.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      where I don’t think it won’t have m…? please read it as will.

  36. Ian Kaye
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    The 20480 Sterling lower limit equates approximately to the starting salary for an NHS nurse I think.It seems entirely reasonable to me that a carer from abroad should receive the same pay.If caring is deemed to suffer from a shortage of people doing it then there’s your 70 points, provided the carer speaks English.In practice this latter requirement may be flexibly applied.

    • forthurst
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

      So you think its ok for someone who can’t speak English well or at all to look after sick people? I met a NHS male nurse who told me that his job was to interpret between patients and foreign medical staff. Bear in mind that a language which evolved outside Europe will not necessarily contain any of our vowel or consonantal sounds so speakers of English as a second language from outside Europe may not be easily understood by ordinary people.

  37. Polly
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    Research reveals that ”Migration Watch” does not believe ”the government is serious” on this subject………..

    https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/press-release/604/governments-post-brexit-immigration-plan

    Polly

  38. William Long
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    This is a good step in the right direction. Immigrants have done a lot for this country but we should have the ability to choose the ones we want and need. Funny that all I saw about it on the BBC yesterday was negative whinging.

  39. formula57
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

    As noted hitherto (on your November 14, 2019 Diary), the points system in Australia apparently sees half its “skilled” category are in fact unskilled accompanying dependents, it fails to match immigrant skills to local shortages, and despite seeking those with skills, has nonetheless created a low-paid migrant underclass (many migrants find work below their skill level) and with skilled migrants disproportionately represented amongst the unemployed. Doubtless Mrs. Patel is on the case though.

    I understand directly from one working in U.K. immigration appeals that the U.K. has long been unwilling to deport those found eligible and has understandings with certain Commonwealth countries (especially India and Pakistan) that it will continue to facilitate immigration with little restriction. Doubtless Mrs. Patel is on those cases too though.

  40. glen cullen
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:10 am | Permalink

    Migration to the UK falls into 3 types, for retirement, investment or employment.

    Surely a job offer should be mandatory…..like the rest of the world

  41. Irene
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    Last evening, I watched the Channel 4 news item on your immigration plans. I’ve since listened to it 3 times more, and I wonder why you left your heart outside the door, along with your head. I wonder how much you and your fellow MPs actually understand about the care system that you have developed, unchallenged. MPs complain about the media distorting matters. MPs are allowed to distort matters at will, thereby influencing the mindset of readers/listeners. MPs vote on systems they clearly don’t even understand. We have no say in that. Priti Patel distorted facts and figures in that same interview.

    The care system has been creaking at the seams for years now, during which time you and your governments did nothing. Where were you during all those years? If you wanted care workers to be paid more, why did you do nothing about that? If you wanted a better care system, why did you do nothing to achieve that? It had nothing to do with immigration – until now, when it’s convenient for you all.

    You talk of increasing productivity. In the same breath, almost, on your blog post you mention hoovers hoovering “You can now tell the hoover to hoover the carpet without having to push it and control its every move for example. You can have much better patient records on an electronic system which will automatically alert that drugs should be administered and will deliver the right pills at the right time to the nurse. Etc etc” I hope I am reading that as you intended it to be read.

    Cleaners are cleaners; care support workers are care support workers; nurses are nurses. Cleaners never administer medicines. Care support workers rarely administer meds. That is what nurses registered with the NMC do. Electronic record-keeping has been in use in care homes for years now, but it has done nothing to prevent sub-standard care aka neglect being on the record in care homes. For years now.

    Domiciliary care support workers exist too. 85% of care homes are run by private care providers – for profit. There are 100,000 vacancies in the workforce. The vast majority of care support workers are female, mostly earning a pathetic minimum hourly wage. Why have you done nothing to improve that? Millions of people – women, in the main – have been forced to give up their jobs, in order to care for their relatives. Propping up a system of neglect by governments.

    Staffing ratios in care homes are something that will not be improved by your plan. You’ve had it in your power to improve staffing rations in both residential and nursing homes. Where were you?

    A friend of mine is in a care home charging £1800 per week (repeat: per week) for basic care. Why? Because he developed dementia, at the age of 63. His wife gave up her job to care for him at home for years, for as long as she could. She is now having to pay £2,460 for a chair for him, in that same care home. How will their situation improve when the care home owners raise fees and lose staff, under your immigration plan?

    For a long while now, I’ve wanted to hear your views on our social care system. Frankly, I despair.

    Reply I agree care workers, nurses, cleaners, catering staff and others are all important in a care home. I hope you can agree that putting the right computing and machine power behind those workers can raise productivity and make their jobs easier and more rewarding. I have always urged better pay for care workers in Homes and did not begrudge the high fees I paid out of my late mother’s proceeds from selling her flat to ensure she stayed in a comfortable and well run home.

    • Irene
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

      Reply to Reply: However much you may have urged, you failed. It is an insult that care support workers, in care homes and in domiciliary care, are still paid a pittance for the extremely valuable job they do.

      No, I don’t agree that ‘the right computing and machine power’ will raise productivity, or make a job easier and more rewarding. There are few tasks that can be bettered by computing and machine power. Please explain how a computer can increase productivity when it comes to cleaning bums, dressing people, assisting them to eat and drink, and all the stuff that care support workers do on their shift.

      You don’t seem to take on board that you were extremely fortunate to ensure that your mother stayed in a ‘comfortable and well run home’. Whether or not you were able to sell your mother’s property to pay for ‘high fees’ is irrelevant. It’s not about how you managed to fund your mother’s care. It’s about the total funding of care, and the condition of care, as arranged by your government. What about those people who don’t have a property to be sold? What about all those care homes and dom care providers who can’t even achieve a ‘good’ rating for the services they provide, but who are still “in need of improvement”, year after year after year. The owners thrive on the neglect they provide.

      There’s more to the system of care in place at present, than any single person’s experience. It takes a government to care enough to change and to improve the whole rotten system. Perhaps we should consider replacing MPs with robots. Or has that already happened?

      Reply I agree we can raise the productivity of MPs where computers do help handle more communications and cases. I support a reduction of 10 % in numbers. The government has promised to seek cross party support for reform of social care.I have written about the complex issues before. It is currently based on the distinction between healthcare, provided from tax revenue, and living costs covered by the individual with means tested support for those without assets and pension income. What change do you propose?

      • a-tracy
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

        Irene,
        “Please explain how a computer can increase productivity when it comes to cleaning bums, dressing people, assisting them to eat and drink, and all the stuff that care support workers do on their shift.”

        Electronic toilet/bidet seats are machines to help to clean and dry bums for those that can get out of bed, more investment and work need putting on these aids, leaving only the acute bedbound patients with the acute needs you speak of. There is equipment for moving and handling bedbound patients but much more needs to be inventing – if I were James Dyson or the JCB owner I would ask my charitable arm to do this and pay graduates on design courses prizes for working mechanics that make the care sector’s life easier in a cost-focused way, perhaps they haven’t had a relative in need of a care home, it is the biggest fear my parents have that they become totally incapacitated, in fact, my Dad has begun to talk of Dignitas he is so afraid of losing his dignity this scare reporting needs to calm down because they cause lots of stress in this demographic.

        • Irene
          Posted February 22, 2020 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

          It’s estimated that 70% of care home residents have dementia or severe memory problems. Many have lost the ability to know what a toilet is for, or even to know that they need to use a toilet. They may still be mobile, but would not be helped much by a Dyson bidet. That is what dementia does with ease.

          • a-tracy
            Posted February 22, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

            Irene, I’m surprised to read 70% of care home patients need help to use the toilet? Is it really so high, if they are sat on a toilet surely a self cleaning mechanism would help or are you saying the 70% are incontinent and not able to sit on a toilet?

          • Irene
            Posted February 23, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

            I didn’t say that 70% of care home residents need help to use the toilet, a-tracy. I said that 70% have dementia. See the word ‘many’ above. Many are incontinent. Many need to be helped after they’ve soiled the pads they are wearing. It’s what comes with the territory of dementia.It’s not unknown for someone with dementia to pee in the drawer of a chest of drawers. There still needs to be dignity in care.

      • margaret
        Posted February 22, 2020 at 12:48 am | Permalink

        Most care homes have Carers delivering medication . They don’t understand what the drugs are used for , they don’t know when to hold back on the drugs in the case of dangerous administration , they often administer out of plastic dosette boxes meaning that individual medications cannot be stopped. For example if blood glucose was to low, a heart rate was too slow, a blood pressure had dropped to dangerously low levels, the carer would continue to administer out of the little plastic boxed sheets. So much for carers doing what carers do!

    • Edward2
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

      Irene
      Do you not see a connection between your statement ” there are 100,000 vacancies in the care industry workforce” and them “earning a pathetic minimum wage”
      Maybe an increase in the wages paid to the hard working people in these vital jobs might bring about a solution.
      Others will be encouraged into the industry.
      Both care home operators and the extra staff needed.

    • Fred H
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

      reply to reply….But Sir John !
      Perhaps you had no particular need for proceeds from your parent’s estate. Sadly there have been and currently are, hundreds of thousands of offspring watching the decline of a parent in often low stimulus surroundings and the financial balance drain that in earlier years the parent felt proud to be able to leave important security to others. Often the parent has worked hard, denied themselves much with the aspiration that their children might get the benefit when their time was over. If you do not understand the resentment felt when so many are subsidising the ones who have managed to enjoy their lives with nothing left to take of the latter years, then you appear to be in the ranks of Conservatives that have turned a blind eye to the predicament over many years, whilst paying lip service to caring and pretending to do something about it.

      reply All 3 main parties in power have stuck to the policy you condemn

      • Fred H
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

        reply to reply – – and I and thousands DO condemn it! That says more about the governments of all colours….so no change likely with this one then.

    • NickC
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply: JR, automation elsewhere in the economy would release manual workers for those jobs (eg: in care homes) that are difficult to automate.

    • Know-Dice
      Posted February 21, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

      Excellent post Irene.

      For various reasons my mother spend her last few years in a nursing home, it was the “human” touch that kept her going, a machine, computer, whatever cannot replace this. And certainly her contact with her care-workers of all nationalities was an essential day to day relief from potential institutionalised boredom…

      Sometimes it is more effective to have paper records rather than flicking through data on a computer screen.

    • margaret
      Posted February 22, 2020 at 1:01 am | Permalink

      The problem is we need clinical staff in care and Nursing homes. The overworked GP cannot effectively be responsible for the clinical input in these homes which are (and I shouldn’t need to even say this , but will as some see the older person as detached from what they will ever become) resided by people like me and you growing old.
      A Dr should be responsible for the health of these residents with hands on help.Only then will the medical profession understand the needs in relation to medical needs of the older person.
      Old age brings with it different challenges and as systems begin to shut down renal function and ability of the body to metabolise and excrete drugs alters . A drug prescribed last year may not be suitable 3 6 months later yet the same pieces of chalk go on and on being forced into the mouths of the trusting.

      • margaret
        Posted February 22, 2020 at 1:05 am | Permalink

        3-6 months

      • Irene
        Posted February 22, 2020 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

        According to NICE guidance for home care agencies “Care workers should only administer medicines when this is clearly documented in the care plan. The care workers must be trained and competent to do so. The prescriber’s directions must be clear, specific and unambiguous.” As far as I know, more or less the same applies in care homes. Of course, rules are often broken in care homes. Only when someone comes to serious harm as a result, will the broken rules be mended.

        • margaret
          Posted February 23, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

          Irene I have worked in many Care homes and Nursing homes, I have managed many and in the more recent homes carers give out medications. The care plan is not part of the method of administering medication . Medication sheets are present with the medicines and have to be signed for . This is not an isolated tradition ,it is across the board. Care plans and medications sheets are 2 different things. But remember Guidelines are simply guidelines .The registered Nurse is accountable to the NMC : carers are only accountable to their employer and ethically the patient. They are cheaper and the practice of giving out medications blindly without knowledge is dangerous. The argument say, in Bolton is that people should be treated as they are at home and meds given by their families out of dosette boxes or packets by the family ( who usually do not have medical knowledge) , however if you have 3-4 floors of elderly and carers simply giving out meds without a weekly review by a Dr who has nursing information about their haemodynamic state then it is dangerous, But it is cheaper !

          • Irene
            Posted February 23, 2020 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

            And some GPs who are appointed to cover the needs of residents in a care home, are paid a hefty ‘retainer’ fee by the care home, which sometimes skews their caring. MARs are also flexible – in my own experience. Even NMC registered managers have been known to neglect residents who are diabetic. The NMC investigations then take 4 years to complete, once a resident has died because of sub-standard care. The care/nursing home is the only home of the residents. It has become their only home.

  42. agricola
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    As a basis for ones legitimacy in the UK it is long overdue that we all had a National Identity Card. Arguements about privacy do not wash with me. We have mobile phones, store cards, driving licences and bank cards. All of these contain and pass on information to those who are interested and those who pay for it. We voluntarily post all sorts of information on the internet that has made a few people billionaires, think Facebook.

    It could take the form of a plastic bank size card or even better a dongle on a key ring or chain around the neck. The latter could contain complete medical records. Very useful in a medical emergency.

    Time has long passed to argue against it. In fact it is a norm within the EU.

    • I am
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

      “As a basis for ones legitimacy in the UK it is long overdue that we all had a National Identity Card.”
      I am legitimate.
      I know who I am
      We are all dealt a hand of cards at birth, I am, not one of them

  43. Diane
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    This is a welcome start from the Government; they have to start somewhere despite all the past & present protest & wailing but it needs to have flexibility & have mechanisms to control, measure & efficiently adapt with sufficient manpower & will to do so. To my mind it also must go hand in hand with effective, increased & cooperative border controls against illegal immigration with more transparency on that aspect, where the public receive more information on the events, actions & the progress or lack of progress. Having said that, there is an article this p.m. (MSN) just noticed reporting on further imminent deportations. Likely to be much comment & opposition as we’ve seen before. We must let our Government get on with the job. The Home Secretary seems to be the desired target recently and accusations rife. This is not deserved.

  44. Jacqueline
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

    What rules will apply to spouses who do not qualify for a work visa under this new system?

    • Man
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

      Maybe they will be eligible to after their own children

  45. A Binary Decision
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    Does organic packaging carry more viruses?

    What hygiene measures are used after all goods are wrapped?

    YES

    NONE

  46. mancunius
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

    Regardless of any financial thresholds, the government – and Westminster politicians generally – simply must begin to take responsibility to foster social harmony – and to ensure that new arrivals integrate socially and culturally, rather than issuing bossy calls for ‘tolerance’ to the indigenous population. Politicians should never forget that they themselves are shielded from any negative social and economic effects of immigration. It’s also worth bearing in mind that when a political leader who has previously refused to restrict immigration monopolises the airwaves to preach ‘tolerance’ and ‘anti-racism’, it looks very much like a smug and overweening attempt to silence political opposition.
    We are fortunate to live in a country where disagreement with the leftwing consensus is not yet outlawed.

  47. bill brown
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

    Sir JR,

    What is the actual number of EU citizens net coming to the UK at this stage?
    50.000 net or less.
    Is the none-membership going to make any difference to the high number coming from non-EU countries also going to be changed?

    • Edward2
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

      It is more about control rather than numbers.
      You still dont get it bill.

      • bill brown
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 8:22 am | Permalink

        Edward2

        This is not how the former government look at it they wanted to get the numbers down to under 100.000 a year through controls

        • Edward2
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

          It is a sensible target considering the huge numbers who have come here since 1997.
          I remember Blair saying 20,000 Polish people would come here and then 600,000 came.

      • bill brown
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

        Edward2

        Did you have time to look up the facts about the low percentage of UK commercial investments as percentage of GDP?

        or would like me to give you the figures?

        • Edward2
          Posted February 21, 2020 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

          Go on bill I expect you are dying to tell me.
          Cant wait.

    • villaking
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

      @bill brown – you are correct in that most immigrants are from outside the EU, we have always been able to control that. The biggest category is those coming here on student visas. I have not read that we want to try and limit those, if we did it would have an adverse impact on university funding. A substantial number come in on family visas to join spouse etc. I have not read that we will be changing that significantly. Several thousand each year are asylum seekers who we are bound by international law to admit. I might add that Brits mostly emigrate to Europe and the EU has stated that it will have reciprocal arrangements to us meaning therefore that emigration will probably decrease. The statistic that xenophobes get most exercised by seems to be net migration (immigrants minus emigrants) so for the stated reasons I don’t see that changing number vastly although we will see a damaging impact in certain sectors, particularly the care sector, where Sir John’s automated vacuum cleaners will not be able to replace care workers by the end of this year.

      • a-tracy
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

        villaking, I read every day now what a crisis care homes and care providers have hiring, good quality staff, with the resources they have to pay over the 24-hour possible care period. I would like to know where the acute shortages are, regionally, nationally, home services or care home services? Which care particularly is causing the less desirability of the position to people i.e. Margaret yesterday suggested it was toilet duties and lifting people.

        There are mechanical devices available to aid with lifting but if someone wants to stay in their own home who should pay for these?

        There are mechanical toilet flushes that wash and dry people after use this needs exploring more. Walk and sit in showers etc. All extra costs but if every Council/Housing Association builds an apartment block with all of these needs covered, having people with these acute needs independently living as much as possible so that one carer doesn’t have all the travelling miles around could that help?

        Personally, our family was able between us to care for my Nana until she passed away many people travelling from miles away to do their care turn, her children, grandchildren and neighbours, for people without any of these resources I don’t know how they cope and if it is getting impossible already even though we’ve had free movement and millions of extra people each year there were “over 110,000 vacant roles and a turnover rate of 30.7%” Blueleaf 2018 it is only going to get worse as demographics are predicting a large growth in this centile.

  48. Mark
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

    It’s a start, and it is under our control, so it can be amended as need be. There are of course loopholes and questions. How about Mode 4 migrants? Does it apply to ministers of religion? How are dependants treated? Probably many other questions that will crop up over time.

  49. steve
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 6:38 pm | Permalink

    Sad to say where I work the Eastern Europeans have got quite unpleasant since the announcement.

    They think they’re going to be deported en mass.

    Someone is filling their heads with lies and trying to stir up trouble. I think whoever is behind this needs publicly shaming and prosecuted. It seems to be a new kind of project fear which in my opinion falls within the meaning of inciting hatred and needs to be nipped in the bud pretty fast.

    • rose
      Posted February 21, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

      These inciters have been at work since the referendum. It is hateful but no-one stops them. It is real incitement, not the PC version. They get away with it by asserting they are against incitement.

      • rose
        Posted February 21, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

        During the referendum a highly educated Frenchwoman I know, married for thirty years to an even more highly educated Englishman, became hysterical about being deported, and allowed an “immigration lawyer” to take capital sums off her husband. Even then the hysteria didn’t stop. It was too bad to find out what the source of the misinformation was. I assumed it was the BBC.

        • Fred H
          Posted February 22, 2020 at 9:52 am | Permalink

          How awful – an intelligent French lady panicking that she might have to return to France – says it all. I’m beginning to understand why the economic migrants risk their lives on the channel crossing. Living in France must be truly horrendous.

  50. Iago
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    It seems to be a charade. This vast immigration of Blair, Brown, Cameron and May seems set to continue, when it should be ended now.
    I recall reading that the government, on the day after the general election, allowed foreign university students to remain for two years after the end of their courses – this does not suggest a government that has the intention to reduce immigration, and nor do the decisions on Hinckley and Huawei and the possible government support for the Chinese belt and roads strategy, not forgetting the signing of the global compact for “safe, orderly and regular migration”.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted February 20, 2020 at 11:43 pm | Permalink

      I think they pursue a policy of managed incompetence , they have to show to the electorate that they care about the levels of immigration, but their hearts are not in it. So they have a fiendishly complex system with lots of exceptions, which makes it impossible to manage, so there is little or no control, and have the open borders they wanted all along.

  51. Bob
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

    “Hopefully the “scientists” who endlessly push bogus, exaggerated and alarmist, climate science will not be included!”

    They’ll be fast tracked!

  52. Mike Wilson
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

    It’s very strange. Apart from my goodself, no-one seems to query why we need an extra million people here every 3 years. Who do we?

    • margaret
      Posted February 22, 2020 at 12:38 am | Permalink

      I think we do , but we are so used to being bullied and overcrowding type comments ,turned into imaginary racist comments that we try to moderate and compromise, however migration for cheap labour is to be stopped so the excuses for bringing in too many to sink our island must be reduced !?

  53. Bartley
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

    Not to worry people will not go where they are not welcome especially bright young people with no great experience of life yet..no!. they will seek to make their future and their fortune in more civilised places where control doesn’t come with a capitol ‘C’..like in taking back control..so really where do you think we are? Is the eighteenth century?..stupidos

    Reply More than 3 million people from the continent wish to stay here under the scheme to continue their current rights, and many people from all round the world including the EU have come to join us since the Brexit vote

  54. Blinkered
    Posted February 20, 2020 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

    The difficulties we place on intending young migrants will in turn be placed on young British migrants moving outwards to the other twenty seven ountries for a start. Then as regards India and other thriving upcoming economies- do you seriously think there will not be repercussions for Brits moving worldwide after announcing such discriminatory ‘in your face’ ignorant policy? Swings and roundabouts

    • Everhopeful
      Posted February 21, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      Well maybe they should stay here and help to make Britain a success?

  55. Halfway
    Posted February 21, 2020 at 2:13 am | Permalink

    It needs to be said- the EU is not going to extend a Canada style free trade deal to us – nothing could be more clear- so we may as well push ahead with tightening up on migration and other control matters- we will just have to get used to the new situation and the sooner the better.

  56. Everhopeful
    Posted February 21, 2020 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Having overseen “Boom and Bust” they now follow their monetary policy rule book to keep everything stable ( and soooooooo miserable).
    Never a thought for those who suffered vast interest rates ( mortgage payments up and down like the proverbial) and who now find that they suffered for nought.
    Saving was a waste of time and virtually impossible….pensions ( govt promises) were trashed and now paltry savings make no returns…and likely never will.
    Ok people may own houses which have inflated unheeded ( no 2% there!!) to help the asset rich wealthy…but everyone needs a home….can’t sell the house and live in a ditch. In any case they have screwed the housing market with their policies…very hard to sell.
    “Investment” homes ( just the one probably) for rental have also been trashed…no income there.
    Still, as long as the dopey “ inflation basket”which can be tweaked to imply lower rises ( tea prices go up so they decide everyone is drinking coffee!) and in any case must surely be a “lagging indicator”…..shows the magic 2%…all is well!

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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