The EU delays its “rescue”plan

The so called Recovery and Resilience fund agreed after much wrangling on Monday night will do practically nothing to help EU economies recover from the pandemic policies. There is no public analysis of the damage done to large sectors of the EU economy by lockdown, no plan for aviation or hotels. It is a very important step on the road to full political union, establishing the important principles that the EU can borrow on the balance sheet of all the member states, and can transfer money from richer to poorer countries following such borrowing.

The grant and loan money in the fund totalling Euro 560bn after haggling will be disbursed over a four year period starting next year. Nothing will be raised and spent in 2020, when the need is greatest, and maybe under 60bn Euro in 2021 according to an EU Commission cash flow forecast. In other words this scheme is not going to rescue the EU economy and is going to make no visible contribution to the recovery for at least the first 18 months after the crash. The other Euro 190 bn will be added to existing EU spending programmes in future years, taking the new borrowing to the promised Euro 750bn.

It is not actually about the virus. It is about the political ambitions of the new Commission, and the need of France and Germany to reaffirm faith in the project of ever closer union at a time of major divisions of opinion on that goal. The UK’s dogged resistance to the project is rightly no more. It is better we leave than continue to oppose the central thrust of the project. Instead the Netherlands led a group of five so called frugal countries who object strongly to a larger budget and to sharing their tax revenues with poorer nations. Two of them have also refused to join the Euro, seeing how that takes you a long way on the road to European integration. Denmark has a legal opt out from Euro membership, whilst Sweden simply declines to meet the Treaty obligation to join.

The Commission has used the Covid 19 damage as a means to lever a bigger budget out of the member states, to be applied to the priorities of the Commission as set out before the pandemic intervened. The overriding priority is to push the Green Revolution. The favoured example of a project suitable for funding is 1 million electric vehicle charger points around the EU. To bring that about individual member states will need to incorporate national roll out of such points in their National Plans and submit them to the EU for money.

Any country wanting a grant or loan will need to send in a Plan and detailed proposals and receive EU approval. Money will only be released where there is target monitoring and performance reporting in place. Payments will be phased with review of progress before further release of cash. This reflects the worries of the states opposing the original scheme.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink. Both comments and trackbacks are currently closed.

350 Comments

  1. GilesB
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    As I have said repeatedly, the EU never wastes a crisis. The Covid fund is all about ‘ever closer union’, nothing about recovery.

    I am so glad that we have left.

    The EU are not negotiating in good faith.

    Let’s stop pretending.

    End the transition period on 30 September 2020.

    • Andy
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:31 am | Permalink

      Waaaahhhh. It’s not fair. The EU won’t do as we say. Waaaahhhhhh.

      • Jiminyjim
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

        You demonstrate the problem with those still fighting the Remain battle perfectly, Andy. Instead of arguing from facts, you simply descend into childishness.

        • bill brown
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:28 am | Permalink

          Jiminyjim

          you are right it is not good enough but please do kindly think of your own contributions,when writing to Andy

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

        😂😂it’s Waaaaaah … the UK will not do as we say ….. Theresa ???? Waaaaaah….

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:52 am | Permalink

      Make up your mind.

      You berate the European Union for not having a central policy and co-ordinated action to fight covid 19, and yet, like most things, health provision and protection are entirely national matters. You would have been enraged by any attempt to centralise these whilst the UK was a member too.

      They have been as good as their word, and the treaties, to the letter, in their attempts to deal with this country, which has never clearly stated even what it wants.

      This is your desperately-craved brexit, it is rubbish, and it will only get worse.

      You won.

      Get over it.

      You can’t Leave again – your bolt is shot.

      • mancunius
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

        “like most things, health provision and protection are entirely national matters.” Like many propagandist europhiles, you present its laws and treaties as mere benevolent bagatelles. Not so. As the EU itself declares [Areas of EU Action, published by the EU] the list of competencies reserved for the EU’s national governments is now reduced to:
        public health
        industry
        culture
        tourism
        education and training, youth and sport
        civil protection
        ….
        Areas governed by the EU are:
        customs union
        competition rules for the single market
        monetary policy for the eurozone countries
        trade and international agreements (under certain circumstances)
        marine plants and animals regulated by the common fisheries policy
        While EU law has absolute primacy over
        the single market
        employment and social affairs
        economic, social and territorial cohesion
        agriculture
        fisheries
        environment
        consumer protection
        transport
        trans-European networks
        energy
        security and justice
        public health
        research and space
        development cooperation and humanitarian aid
        coordination of economic and employment policies
        definition and implementation of the Common Foreign and Security Policy
        And finally the catch-all ‘flexibility clause’, whereby the EU can intervene outside its normal areas of responsibility.

        Very strange, so many fans of the EU who refuse to read its laws.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:50 pm | Permalink

          +1
          Sums it up nicely!

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:49 am | Permalink

          They are sub-sections under the Treaty remit. And countries such as the UK had opt-outs for those too.

          This so-called seventy-five percent of UK law that is supposedly made in Brussels does not include family and divorce, nor Town and Country Planning. Nor does it cover crime and sentencing. Heath, education and professional standards are outside its remit, as are land, property and inheritance, along with most tax bar VAT. Defence and security are not covered, and nor are electoral matters nor media regulation. Driving and parking rules and penalties appear to be for us too, along with employment and trade union matters, except for health and safety. Notably, there is no European Union law on immigration from outside countries either. It seems to be getting rather hard to find. Surely the Leave campaigns would not have misled anyone though?

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

            Nor do you mention directives, regulations and new rules made under powers created by treaties

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

            All nations can make rules under their national Acts.

            The UK has countless of these Statutory Instruments too.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:23 pm | Permalink

            No
            You miss the point.
            These are EU directives regulations and rules which pass automatically into UK law under Treaty provisions.

      • Fred H
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

        you and the Boy Wonder are getting up early to stamp your feet!

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        You won.

        Get over it.

        I am over it. Just a shame we haven’t really left. You should be over the moon.

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

        We have yet yo leave Martin-in-Tiger Bay.

      • David Brown
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

        1962 Hudson Rev. 15 587 Already there is hardly room on the Continent of Europe for all the..nations, and now that they have begun to roll themselves into one enormous nation,..the feeling in England is that if we don’t get in and co-operate we shall simply be buried. There are Little Englanders..who want to keep out.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

          Unlike 160 other nations who value and often have fought for their independence.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:51 am | Permalink

            From the British, most often.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

            Wrong as usual.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

      You do get to wonder why any energy is expended in creating any sort of trade arrangement. The overriding EU position is it is their rules, their laws, their courts and its justice for any trade deal.

      No mutual respect, no mutual trade, just perpetuation of protectionism to keep its rulers in power. China on our doorstep.

    • Hope
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:27 am | Permalink

      JR, most of us do not care, what we care about is how much are we English taxpayers on the hook for?

      It was reported last week this servitude transition is costing us £180 billion! Is this correct and will we be periodically kept informed exactly how much traitor May has made us liable for? It is our money not Govt’s.

      • hefner
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

        Where ‘was it reported’?

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

      We always knew that there would be no ‘good faith’. The decision to pay a ‘divorce bill’ looks increasingly bad.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      I am so glad the UK has left too.

      Can you imagine any agreement being reached if David Cameron was still the PM and Boris Johnson was sitting in the wings ready to rekindle his eurosceptic credentials after his narrow loss (just as intended) in the EU referendumn of 2016 ?

      Obstructionism does not even come close to describing the whole EU getting dragged in the Conservative infighting and jockeying for the position of next PM.

      Who would have thought that it would actually be the EU who would be the first to draw a Brexit dividend ?

    • bill brown
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      GilesB

      Please do share with us about bad faith, as I cannot find teh informaiton you are sharing with us?
      thank you

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

        Bill B, What about Verhofstadt’s staffers gloating that they had finally made us their colony? Is that not bad faith?

        And when is Denmark going to adopt the Euro? Now that you don’t have the UK to hide behind, that is.

        • bill brown
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

          NickC

          you are showoing your ignorance again. The Danish kriner is proetected by a tratey with the EU and does not need , due to its internal economic stregth to hide behind a weak pound
          or an economy which does not have any trade dels with teh two most powerful markets in the World.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

            Do you have problem with you keyboard bill?

  2. Mick
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Thank god we left in January or else we would have been footing the majority of the fund, someone should tell the bbc that after listening to the Russia report yesterday they were only interested in the lack of evidence or information from number 10 to the 2016 referendum, I think along with a lot of remoaners the bbc seem to think that the 2016 referendum could be overturned, nice try muppets you lost were out so get over it

    • Andy
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:33 am | Permalink

      Firstly we have not, ever, footed the majority of anything in the EU.

      Secondly the report did not say there was no evidence that Mr Putin had bought your Brexit. It said nobody in the Tory government had even bothered to see if he had.

      And the biggest losers out of Brexit will largely be those of you who voted for it because, four years on, you have still not figured out what it means for you.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

        Secondly the report did not say there was no evidence that Mr Putin had bought your Brexit. It said nobody in the Tory government had even bothered to see if he had.

        A couple of blokes with dodgy accents offered me £500 to vote for Brexit. I said ‘I’m going to vote for Brexit anyway’. They said ‘you better!’ and gave me the money. Now I don’t know if Vlad the Impaler was behind it – but one of the blokes called the other one Igor.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

          😊

      • Sea Warrior
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

        So you expect the government to go looking for evidence that no crime was committed? It’s for those making the allegations to present some credible evidence. They haven’t.

      • graham1946
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

        We were among the few who footed the bill for everything in the EU, the rest are supplicants.

        Poor old Andy. Didn’t you get your cheque from Mr. Putin? Nor did the 17 plus million who voted for Brexit. Anyway, you say the UK is so small and insignificant, why would Russia bother with us? Has he bothered with the EU?

        • bill brown
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

          Graham 1946

          Putin tries all ha can do to undermine the EU. (soure EIU and Economist).

          Just ask if you do not know?

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:07 am | Permalink

            bill brown

            Remainer’s latest hissy fit….Russia could have done it; the 2016 Referendum was possibly fixed by them…should we consider a re-run?

            “Seriously desperate Remainers clinging to anything that can still thwart Brexit”

            ……….how amusing!

          • a-tracy
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

            Bill, if the UK is so small and insignificant to the UK, unimportant in the project and will suffer as you suggest how does that undermine the EU in any way?

          • a-tracy
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

            insignificant to the EU (sorry)

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

            There’s not much can thwart what’s already happened, Den.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

            Indeed.
            The voters gave the party that promised to get Brexit done a huge 80 seat majority.
            Whilst Labour had their worst result since the 1930s and remain obsessed parties like the Lib Dems and Greens did terribly.

      • UK Qanon
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

        Cannot wait for the total collapse of the corrupt EU political project, the sooner the better. I would rathjer take a chance knowing we are in control of our destiny as opposed to some unelected corrupt body. The peoples have to rise up against the EU tyranny.

        • Andy
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

          Alas. You’ll be long dead by then.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:09 am | Permalink

            Alas, you will never grow up either!

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

        Fantastic that you think Putin, with a few schillings, managed what the EU who spent billions trying to influence the Brexit vote could not! The EU had all British political parties paid off, the BBC, the Electoral Commission, the US President Obama, Governor of the BOE, all the Corporations: Nissan , Toyota etc etc, the CBI – they even silenced lifelong Brexiteer Corbyn! … who did Putin have paid off and why do you think he was pro-Brexit anyway, why does a strong independent UK help Russia?

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

          The European Union publishes its accounts, and they are vetted by the authorities of not one, but of twenty-seven countries, jointly and severally.

          Can you please link to the part which shows these disbursements, to which you freely and repeatedly refer?

          Thanks.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      Indeed thang goodness we voted to leave the EU and have “almost anyway” left. Thank goodness the appalling disingenuous “leave means remain”, 9% support Theresa May and the many traitors who voted for the Benn Surender Act failed. A great shame they wasted years and billions in the process. A shame we still have to listen to them endlessly on the BBC.

      Thanks goodness Boris rescuers us from 9% support May and a Corbyn/SNP disaster.

      All we need now is for him to morph into a proper, small government, low tax, cheap energy, pro (real) jobs Conservative. Alas he has not even cancelled HS2 as yet.

      • Pauline Baxter
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

        Hear hear Lifelogic.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

        A small government is still a government.

        The party in power appear not to understand what a proper one – by modern enlightened standards – of any size might be.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

          The UK government isn’t small.
          It is creeping up past 40% of the total spending of the UK.
          Taxes are also creeping up.
          Neither high enough for you I expect Martin.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

            I didn’t claim that it was. Just that it isn’t anything like a good government, whatever its size or budget.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 25, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

            It is just because you dont like the Conservatives.
            It is your unconscious bias showing.
            You should go on a course.

    • Hope
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      We have not left, we are in servitude! What do you think negotiations are about? ECJ applying over N. Ireland foe years despite lies it no longer applies. Border down the Irish Sea when Johnson promised otherwise.

      Fake Tories have a lot to answer. Do not accept their lies.

      They even have a forest of magic money trees! The one they ridiculed Corbyn about, except theirs is much larger!

      • acorn
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

        Hope, there is only one Pound Sterling magic money tree and it lives in the Treasury’s National Loans Fund Office; from where the currency is created and eventually extinguished by taxation.

        The Treasury has just issued the Whole of Government Accounts (WGA) for fiscal 2018/19. (Why it takes 15 months to produce is not clear.) In it you will see proof that the magic money tree exists.

        The Statement of Financial Position (page 76) tells us that the UK is insolvent with net liabilities of £2,455.8 billion in private sector international accounting terms. It’s been like that for decades; but, it is still in business. No creditors have taken it to Court to wind it up.

        That’s the difference between a currency ISSUING government Treasury and a currency USING non-government private sector of households and firms. The Treasury will never run out of Pounds Sterling to create and issue. It can also wait forever to get the Pounds it created back in taxation. And, it never has to borrow its own unique monopoly currency from anyone; let alone pay interest on it.

        Remember that the government’s, so called, national debt, is the non-government sector’s national savings; to the penny.

        • NickC
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:41 am | Permalink

          Acorn, You apparently don’t understand your own Magic Money Tree theory. Even the MMT cult doesn’t claim the state can never run out of its own money – in MMT the amount of printed money is limited by inflation.

          MMT only appears plausible to the gullible because China has injected deflation into the global economy for 20 years. The CPI is the Chinese Prices Index. When that stops, MMT will fall over. Because government finances are simply the aggregate of household finances.

    • Jack Falstaff
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

      I think the BBC is skating in very thin ice, because if we were to take really serious action in response to Russia’s influence, they would be either closed down or privatised immediately.

      • Jack Falstaff
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

        “on thin ice” sorry.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

        You do understand that Putin is a right-wing populist, and that the Left are the downtrodden opposition in Russia? Didn’t think so.

        Also the BBC is already privatised. It has virtually nothing left to sell off, from transmitters to tea ladies.

        It fell over itself to be the very image of the Tufton Street-proclaimed model.

        • NickC
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

          Martin, No, Putin is a left wing dictator.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

            Interesting claim, Nick.

            United Russia – Putin’s Party describes itself as Russian Conservative.

            Conservatism in Russia is a broad system of political beliefs in Russia that is characterised by support for Christian values, Russian imperialism, statism, anti-communism, economic intervention, advocacy for the historical Russian sphere of influence and a rejection of Western culture, economic liberalism and modernism.

            The communists and liberals are the main opposition.

    • hefner
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

      ‘we would have been footing the majority of the fund’: really? How do you know that?

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

        Because they pencilled in €80 billion against the U.K. – some German politicians have congratulated us for ducking that one.

        • hefner
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

          Who?

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

        Hefner, Because the UK has been a massive net contributor to the EU’s coffers for decades. What evidence have you got that would change now? We’re not known as “Treasure Island” for nothing.

        • hefner
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

          Well, it is also known as Treasure Island for other reasons, unfortunately.

    • Mark
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

      I note there seems to have been no discussion of the very evident interference in energy related matters by the Russians. Extensive support for anti-frackers, not only in their English language media, but also with direct financial support according to reports elsewhere. Gazprom negotiated a large gas swap with BG some years ago that gave them access to North Sea gas landed in the UK in exchange for availability ex Nordstream. This they now claim as exports to the UK, which is perhaps a warning of how they view it. We should remember that Chinese interests have acquired significant holdings in the UKCS.

      These are much more important issues than claims about what at best would have been ineffective flim flam in putting forward a Russian perspective on elections.

      • Pauline Baxter
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

        Mark, THAT is very interesting at a time when I am knocking my head against the proverbial brick wall with my energy supplier. Longish story and I didn’t till now, really think the lights flickering was anything to do with the disputed bill but I wonder.

  3. Sea Warrior
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Good analysis, Sir John. And R5 reported this morning that there is no sign that the EU and the UK will be concluding an FTA anytime soon, which should have been the Commission’s priority rather than dispensing free money and loans to the poorer EU states (such as grasping Poland, which has hardly been affected by COVID). WTO beckons and I, for one, will be happy with that outcome. Now let’s keep our fish! All of ’em!

    • Billy Elliot
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      “no sign that the EU and the UK will be concluding an FTA anytime soon, which should have been the Commission’s priority” Heh. Priority. Why should that been?

      Taking care of their own citizens just had to be their first priority. But interesting that you care what EU does. FTA with a soon to be third country just does not seem to be a very urgent priority for EU contra what many on this island claim.

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

        It’s important for German car makers and France vineyards. They are on the ceiling!

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:37 am | Permalink

          But Lynn

          Remainers would have us believe the European businesses do not give two hoots about the UK market. According to them it is unimportant. However, they are in for a rude awakening?

          Four+ years of listening to Remoaners with their childish sophistry and ludicrous sciolism gives one an insight into their irrational fear of leaving? They are shamefully ignorant of the inner workings of Brussels and their sinister objectives?

          Thank goodness our freedom ship is plotting a new course, away from these demented siren’s EU rocks?

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:51 pm | Permalink

            Like everything else you reduce others’ views to silly binary, absolutist caricatures.

            No one claimed that our Continental suppliers “didn’t care two hoots” about losing some of their market.

            Simply, however, they would be far less affected than would UK exporters to Europe, who stood to lose a far, far greater market.

            We’re not all like you.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

            You make the big error of considering the effect on all 27 as a whole.
            The main importers to the UK are just four or five trading nations.
            Hundreds of billions and hundreds of thousands of jobs are at risk in these nations.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted July 25, 2020 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

            Martin in Cardiff

            No, mostly your inane viewpoints.

            The clear lack of international business experience/senior management acumen and in-depth details, with regards to European industry economics, is the Remainers greatest weakness, hence its defensiveness.

            You have yet to deliver any worthwhile insights into your anti-Brexit assertions, just merely trotting out the same old borish debunked Remainer sciolistic sophistry.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

        Billy, The EU “Taking care of their own citizens”?? When did this happen?

    • Peter
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      ‘Delays’ ?

      How long are Frost, Barnier and co going to continue with the Brexit talks?

      Nothing seems to be happening, yet they plod on regardless.

      The worry is that this is all so much theatre until a fudge is announced at the very last minute.

      • Fred H
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

        don’t know about theatre, but it out-farce’s Brian Rix.

    • czerwonadupa
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

      “Grasping Poland”?
      Having spent 50 years under the yoke of the two most extreme regimes of the 20th century with little help from their “allies”or what happened to their capital city at the hands of the Germans compared to Paris, the reduction of their population by 25% & the massacre of 22,000 of their inteligencia for which the perpetrators have never been brought to justice. What they have received is small compensation for what they have suffered for the past 50 years.

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

        czerwonadupa

        Britain paid a high price for supporting Poland in WW2. Britain came into the war because it had a defence treaty with Poland to support them in times of need against Germany. Britain loyally stood by Poland…..and of course Britain thanks the Polish people for its help against the Nazis during WW2.

        However, I do believe Russia and Germany should be providing Poland with war reparations, for those 50 years of aggression/political suppression, not western European countries?

        • czerwonadupa
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 1:08 pm | Permalink

          Britain was & always has been more interested in preventing Germany being the dominant country in Europe & that was still their main concern in ’39. As Chamberlain was quoted as say, “How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas-masks here because of a quarrel in a far away country between people of whom we know nothing.
          And if Britain entered the war solely because of loyalty to Poland they didn’t show that loyalty at the end when Poland was excluded from the great victory parade in London, much to the shame & embarrassment of the British military personnel who had fought alongside them during the war.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted July 25, 2020 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

            czerwonadupa

            Politically, you are are right. But from a human cost of common British lives, you are wrong!

            Britain was & always has been more interested in preventing Germany negating the British Empire’s (along with that of the emerging USA power) international hegemony.

            Churchill noted to a US Senator that a war would be preferable with Germany to ensure Great Britain and America maintained its pre eminence globally, less so Europe.

            But nevertheless, Britain could and should not have intervened on behalf of Poland. Britain was not ready for any showdown with Germany. In pure rational terms it was a big mistake of Britain (at the time) to go to war.

            Regarding Poland’s exclusion from the great victory parade in London, I agree with you. When over 130 allied nations marched in the great 1946 Victory Parade in London, the Poles were excluded to appease ‘Uncle Joe – Stalin’ and was and still is a national disgrace!

  4. Peter VAN LEEUWEN
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    This recovery fund and MMF was always meant NOT to be an immediate rescue fund, for which already other money is available: the ESM, the 500bn package agreed with the eurogroup in April/May, the ECB’s QE and all the national relief packages.
    The ECB has long argued that it was time for EU politicians to step up to the plate, and that has now happened. I assume also this German court will be satisfied and no new case will be brought there.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

      I don’t think that the German court will be very pleased. As for the green initiative I don’t see that as a starter particularly in the poorer regions.

      • hefner
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

        Ian, if you had followed (and possibly understood) what the German Federal Constitutional Court in Karlsruhe had said before (‘not enough political oversight’), you might have found that the so-called Next Generation EU fund includes (thanks to the pressure of the ‘frugal four’ (+1, Finland) a governance mechanism (oversight mechanism) to ensure that the individual capitals enact the reforms that they have to promise doing before getting access to the money. Furthermore, as part of the deal, any of the 27 countries will be able to object if it considers that the promise is not being fulfilled by another country.
        Five days to agree on a £750 bn rescue package, plus an awful lot of work being done on the 2021-2027 budget, that looks pretty fast to me.

        • NickC
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

          Hefner, In other words it’s a slush fund. The sub-states will get a dollop of money provided they obey the EU Commission.

          • hefner
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

            A slush fund would not be expected to reimburse the money used for the loans/grants. Depending which sources you check, it is expected the ‘bonds’ behind this EU’s injection of money will have a lifetime ending in 2045, 2050, or 2058. One has just to hope they will be different from the (in)famous Tsarist Russian Loans.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

            If you want to play golf, then you follow the club rules.

            Doesn’t seem that sensational or shocking.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

            In a golf club you all have a vote and you all pay subscriptions annually.
            In the EU there are 27 members but only 9 pay in.
            The rest just take out.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

            In the US, thirteen states pay in to the federal budget net, and thirty-seven take out, as of 2017.

            Your point is?

          • Edward2
            Posted July 25, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

            Switching it to the USA is a poor response when the topic raised was the EU.
            You raised the golf club metaphor.

      • bill brown
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

        Ian Wragg,

        You are guessing again and does not really ahve a clue, a third of teh money is planned for ecological projects, before the money is disbursed

    • Hope
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:31 am | Permalink

      JR, what is the UK on the hook for with the ECB, the truth please.

    • Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      Is your own country ‘satisfied’ Pieter? Or will they be voting for Gert en masse?

      • hefner
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

        Well, it is to be seen whether the rebate that each of the frugal four got on their individual contributions will satisfy them.
        And funnily enough I would think Rutte is far cleverer than Geert Wilders.
        But some people here are so keen on politicians past their sell-by date.

        • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

          You thought Theresa May was cleverer than the British people 😂😂

          • hefner
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

            Aren’t you one of Sir John’s groupies?

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

        will they be voting for Gert en masse

        Thought his name was Geert Wilders.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

        Please see my reaction to Sea Warrior below.

      • bill brown
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

        Lynnn Atkinson

        It just again shows how little you understand about continential politics

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

        Oh, first name terms eh?

        Pops round for Sunday lunch, does he?

    • Stred
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      In a recent meeting Napoleon told the Dutch PM that he was behaving like a British PM, meaning being difficult and not in the spirit of Eunity. What a cheek coming from the president of a country that swiped the face masks for hospitals in England and Spain as they passed through.

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      Are you Dutch, Peter? If so, would you care to offer some thoughts on what yesterday’s agreements mean for Dutch support for the EU. What’s the mood in the Dutch Press?

      • Fred H
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

        I imagine the BBC provided courses?

      • steve
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

        Sea Warrior

        “What’s the mood in the Dutch Press?”

        Theirs is probably as biased as ours.

      • hefner
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

        The Dutch rebate going from €1.5m to €1.92m and the fraction of the plan given as grants decreasing from €500bn to €390bn and that of loans increasing from the original €250bn to €360bn appears to have clinched the deal. Obviously the far-right groups (PVV in the NL, RN in France, AfD in Germany, Liga in Italy, and similar in other EU countries) plus the usual contributors here are not happy. Oh dear, too bad.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

          You view all things as left v right Hefner.
          Sad really because the decisions made by the EU will affect every single country in Europe.
          I’m all for the transfer of money from wealthy EU nations to poorer members.
          It will reveal if social democratic nations really can stay in power as they take money which might be spent nationally and give it away to others.

          • hefner
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:33 am | Permalink

            That’s one of your best comments Edward2. Who recently were you calling Marxist?

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

            I cant remember.
            Do tell me.
            It wasnt you was it?

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

        @Sea Warrior: as a caveat, I am biased. Politically I feel much closer to Frans Timmermans, the current Dutch responsible for the EU’s Green Deal, than to Mark Rutte, even though our prime-minister did a very good job as communicator during the pandemic and his party is doing well in the polls. Most Dutch support the outcome, I would have liked a less nationalistic attitude. People like Geert Wilders, who already lost all his seats at the EU elections would have a hard time at the 2021 elections against a right wing but popular Rutte.

        • Sea Warrior
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

          I’m biased too, Peter, but I appreciate your having responded to my question. I now wonder whether the Irish will begin to question their EU membership; you make me think that the Dutch won’t be.

        • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

          As a caveat, I am unbiased. But my cousin has 6 churches in Holland. I think you are wrong and suffering self-delusion.

          • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
            Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

            @Lynn Atkinson:
            One man – 6 churches – that doesn’t sound like a statistically ensured random sample to me Lynn. Of course many opinions can be found in the Netherlands (the new official brand name for what you still call Holland).

    • Adam
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

      The notion of the EU ‘rescuing’ others with a lead lifebelt creates an unsatisfactory sinking feeling.

    • NickC
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

      PvL, Are you happy that Dutch taxpayers will now be subsidising Italy? More to the point, will Dutch taxpayers be happy about it? It won’t stop here either; now the precedent is established you are onto the next stage of EU empire building.

      More than the money, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard (DT 21 July) asks about the EU Commission: “Where else in the world does a single unelected body have the ‘right of initiative’ on legislation, and the executive powers of a proto-government, and the spending prerogatives of a parliament, all wrapped in one?” And the answer is – only in dictatorships.

      However much you subscribe emotionally to the idea of a band of European brothers, the EU is headed in a dangerous direction. Hard though it may be, the time to get out is now: it will only get harder.

      • hefner
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

        Even an economic commentator of 30 years like AE-P could still learn a few things, in particular to realise that the main aim of the plan might not be so much economic but political. But this type of arguments appears to fly a thousand miles above the head of this ‘distinguished’ economist, oops, journalist.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

        @NickC: A proper discussion about these points is not really possible within the limits of this blog. I’m not surprised about the quotation in the DT, a rather anti EU paper. I see it very differently from Ambrose and know how the various EU institutions work and how democratic it actually is already.

        Yesterday I visited Westerbork, where over 100000 Dutch Jews were gathered and sent on to extermination camps in Germany and Poland. A tiny notice read: Hier begint Europe”. We Dutch should humbly learn not to see Europe in just transactional terms.

      • bill brown
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        there is an average of 70 % support for teh idea of th EU across the EU, with Italy having teh lowest of 53% of teh population. (Ecnomist) stick with the facts , instead of your weak guesses and lack of factual evidence

    • acorn
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

      Peter, there is a fundamental difference in how Euro area currency issuing works compared to the UK or USA as sovereign currency issuers. The UK issues Gilts, savings certificates, and pretends that it is “borrowing” its own currency from the private sector. Known as the “full funding” scam.

      Euro area states Treasury issue Bonds to get Euro cash from the market, to operate their economies. They are using a foreign currency they have no control over. A currency that is created and issued by the ECB. Bonds that are subject to market interest rates.

      It would be difficult to design a more ludicrous currency system than that used by the EU.

      • bill brown
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

        acorn

        gilts are also subject to market interest rates

    • czerwonadupa
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

      “Step up to the plate”? They don’t play the game & the concept of “fair play” is an alien concept from a country no long a member of the club & who will therefore be unable to ensure there is “fair play” towards the smaller & weaker members of that club.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

        @czerwonadupa:
        What is meant here is that politicians took some action (recover fund) to help e.g. Italy, not to accrue even much more debt than now.
        The “level playing field” is to protect from unfair competition. Countries and companies can sue in case they feel unfair competition in the single market is happening.
        NB what you call the “club” is a voluntary club, including for counties like Poland.

  5. Anonymous
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    Sorry to go off topic but the bloody BBC at it again.

    A section on how racist Winston Churchill was. Five minutes devoted to it without having anything to do with the news that day. A history lesson in the middle of the BBC News at Ten.

    Then footage of the recent defacement of his statues… as though to try and stoke up BLM rioting again.

    The BBC is trying to create the news rather than report it and is trying its best to make this country ungovernable.

    • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:49 am | Permalink

      I would encourage you and everyone to ditch their TV and go online instead, thereby cutting the BBC’s revenues and viewership. I and many others have done it. Save yourself the £150 a year licence fee. There are some great video podcasts and alternative news channels out there and, of course, you can still listen to the BBC radio if you really feel you must (myself I’ found better radio stations online).

      • Caterpillar
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

        BeebTax,

        We are having this discussion in our household right now. The basic sticking point is that I watch Bloomberg TV ‘live’ and for some obscure reason that means the BBC has to be paid.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:08 am | Permalink

      You are right that the BBC bias shows in what they deem to be newsworthy. Another example is their blanket coverage of Trump and the USA over the past few years alongside minimal coverage of ethnic cleansing in China and very sparse coverage of EU countries. It is a peculiarity of the middle-class left that they profess love of the EU but are really only interested in USA when it comes to political coverage.

      • czerwonadupa
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

        The BBC is the “COW” = Church of Woke in our household. With Emily Matilis their High Priestess.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

      Indeed I complained to the BBC that they were dangerously fanning the flames of rioting in various programmes and inciting criminality. This just before the toppling of the Statue. Their reply was totally pathetic waffle. It failed totally to address the issue at all. Just meaningless flannel, one wonders if they even bothered to read the complaint or just gave the same flannel to everyone.

      They seem to have given up on impartiality but then again many top police officers have too it seems. The only (not left wing interviewer they had) the fairly middle of the road. but a fair and competent one, Andrew Neil seem to have gone from the BBC too. The are just a socialists, climate alarmists, anti-brexit, anti Trump propaganda outfit. With Dominic Grieve types endlessly given airtime.

    • Paul Cohen
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

      Anonymous – Quite right! About time the BBC was stopped for displaying their bias and blatant opinions. The BBC seem to be driven to pressing their self destruct button by their disregard of their main function of accurately reporting news. This won’t help their efforts to achieve an increase of funding.

      Lets have an answer to the question as to who is responsible for this continuing and unwelcome broadcasting.

      • M Davis
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

        … Lets have an answer to the question as to who is responsible for this continuing and unwelcome broadcasting. …

        Maybe you should ask the Government, maybe they could point us in the right direction. Maybe Sir John could give us a clue? The answer is blowing in the wind! OR, maybe if people stopped paying, the BBC might just get the message!

    • Oggy
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:50 am | Permalink

      I totally agree the BBC are a bloody disgrace. They spent all day yesterday trying to get various people to confirm evidence of Russian interference in the Brexit referendum when there isn’t any. It’s time to defund the anti British BBC, and get rid of the licence fee.

      Regarding today’s blog – very well put Sir John, thank God we are out.

      • beresford
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

        Sky News are desperately flogging the dead horse of ‘Russian involvement in the 2016 referendum’ at the moment. What the dim-witted Remoaners have forgotten is that since the referendum we have had two national and one EU elections in which the Remoaners have been spanked.

      • czerwonadupa
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

        I fleetingly saw Dominic Grieve was wheeled out to comment on supposed Russian interference in Brexit. Oh so predictable from the Rejoiners on both sides of the microphone.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

      Clive Myrie said on the BBC’s Media Show , that it was the duty of news presenters to keep in people’s minds the connection between George Floyd’s death and the slave trade. So from their own mouths they say the news should accompany a political message.

      I too saw the hatchet job the BBC did on Churchill , there was no attempt at balance, they glibly said food should have been diverted to India, though didn’t say what should have been cut from British people’s weekly food rations which was 113g bacon and ham (about 4 thin slices), one shilling and ten pence worth of meat (about 227g minced beef), 57g butter, 57g cheese, 113g margarine, 113g cooking fat, 3 pints of milk, 227g sugar, 57g tea and 1 egg.

      • jerry
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

        @Iain Moore; “So from their own mouths they say the news should accompany a political message.”

        Most people would call that placing an issue into context

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

      To all of the above. It wasn’t like it was current news and the item just appeared from nowhere.

  6. Mark B
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Personally, once fully out of the EU I could not care a jot what they did or did not do. All I care about is that we are not affected by it and, that we are not expected to contribute to coffers, they have had more than enough from us.

    It is good to see that PvL’s country is taking up the UK mantle of ‘foot dragger’. He now gets to personally fund his beloved EU. I am very happy for him 🙂

    If the whole of the EU was to go electric, where is our energy going to come from now that we are importing more and more of it ? I know we covered this recently but, we did not look at the possibilities that our EU suppliers might want to keep their energy for themselves. We have seen what they are like to both us and each other over PPE, and see no reason why they would not act in the same way over electricity. Another reason to be energy independent.

    • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:52 am | Permalink

      Quite, though I think we need to keep a wary eye on what they are doing since they could undermine our interests, as per your point about electricity.
      Regarding energy we need to drop the greenwash and be ready to frack.

      • Pauline Baxter
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:11 pm | Permalink

        Agreed, BeebTax.

    • formula57
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:55 am | Permalink

      @ Mark B “I am very happy for him 🙂” – we all are!

      The Dutch enjoy a longer working life so earlier-retiring Italians can be kept in clover. To witness a country providing to its neighbours goodies that it denies itself illustrates that altruism still thrives in this selfish age. It is heart-warming.

      (I suppose it is a bit easier for the Dutch for unlike us with Scotland, they do not have the accompaniment of tiresome, constant whinging from the Italians.)

    • margaret howard
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      Mark B

      “We have seen what they are like to both us and each other over PPE,..”

      And what exactly have we offered the world, especially those smaller countries who lack our resources? As opposed to EU members who not only helped with supplies but took in sick patients from other countries?

      • steve
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

        MH

        Dont kid yourself. The EU will only ever do what is in it’s interest.

      • Anonymous
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

        Erm… we’re taking in poor people all the time. We may well be first to the vaccine ???

    • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:31 am | Permalink

      @MarkB: The average Dutch taxpayer has ALWAYS contributed more to the funding of the EU than the British one. (In our own self interest mind you)

      • Edward2
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        Clever use of statistics by dividing our two populations by money paid in, but the UK has been a net payer for every year since it joined, bar one year.
        Many billions each year in membership fees
        And a £90 billion a year trade deficit.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

          … and becoming the financial center of Europe with a GDP equivalent to Belgium all tucked in in a square mile.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

            Hollsnd?
            Becoming the centre of financial services in Europe ?
            Hilarious

        • bill brown
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          this does not exclude the cler facts presened by Peter

          • Edward2
            Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

            Well bill I think it does.
            Present some facts and I might read and reconsider my views.

        • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

          @Edward2: Not so much clever as the only way to compare populations and their willingness to contribute.
          You wouldn’t want Malta to contribute as much as say Germany, would you?

        • bill brown
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:23 am | Permalink

          Edwaard 2

          asking for facts, coming from you, very funny

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:54 am | Permalink

            Do Dutch citizens actually pay a seperate tax to the EU or is it just paid out by their government from generalised funds?
            Like in the UK there is no proper connection between the individual and the cost of the EU to them.

            After the UK stop paying in many billions each year your countrymen will find themselves paying in considerably more.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:55 am | Permalink

            At least I can spell words like “the” bill.
            Most of your short posts are unreadable due to your poor typing.

          • NickC
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:11 am | Permalink

            And since when did you present facts and cogent arguments, Bill? You specialise in personal finger-wagging from the sidelines.

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      Good points. Strategic resilience is one of those subjects that our politicians are giving too little attention to. Energy and Medical supply resilience are important – and one would hope that, somewhere in Whitehall, a senior civil servant will be updating the Energy ‘Estimate’. And we should always be able to grow enough food so that we never have to face starvation.

    • Arthur Wrightiss
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

      Importing more and more electricity??
      Have a look at http://www.gridwatch.com to see the full picture on imports via the inter connectors. It’s negligible.

  7. everyone knows
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:00 am | Permalink

    The Commission has used the Covid 19 damage as a means to lever a bigger budget out of the member states

    >
    Yet no one is going to tell the public the entire thing was pre-planned?

    • Peter Wood
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

      Yes..BUT.. by far the largest contributor will be Germany, so why is Mrs Merkel so happy? When the German finance minister, and high court, does the arithmetic I think we’ll see a minor eruption in Berlin. Mrs Merkel knows this, so what has she got in return for German generosity to quiet their concerns.

  8. Javelin
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:01 am | Permalink

    The UK Gov have a £350 grant to install charge points (£550) in homes. 100,000 have been installed. So £350 for charge points but £800m spent so far on electric car charging. The dept of Transport has just announced all new homes to have charge points.

    So 1 million new charge points at £500 a pop is half a £billion on EU charge points. Which I think a lot of EU countries were going to spend anyway. So it hasn’t really helped apart from putting EU flags on them all and pretending the EU has helped.

    Beside which the purpose of the charge points is to sell German and French cars to the poorer EU states which will only increase the fiscal imbalances.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

      UK Government spending the taxpayers money (not their money they don’t have any) on supporting those that can already afford to have the facility, at the expense of those that that can’t.

      On top of the situation that these people already received taxpayer funding for their cars. It just illustrates this Government is playing to the Woke fraternity, the MsM, the chattering classes at the expense of the country as a whole. At the expense of those that are desperate to get of the hole they find themselves in, the ones that will move this country forward – Nuts

      • Turboterrier
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

        Ian@Barkham

        Exactly. I have thought for years that when the Government hand out all this money left right and centre there should be bill boards like the EU used to put up as this project is funded by the them. Our billboards should read FUNDED BY THE UK TAX PAYERS.

        Alas it seems we still have large numbers within the population that do not quite get it, that government has no money only what the taxpayers give it. In conversation with a member of the Inland Revenue I tried to explain to her that I was in reality her employer as I paid income tax which pays her wages. The reply very short and sweet was “I am paid solely by the government”. Its enough to make you weep

    • Fred H
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      All those charge points gives work to the electricians – but what about the factories, the car and white goods workers watching demand ebb away?

    • Nigl
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      With the majority of batteries made in China and the control most of the rare minerals how is that going to work then?

      I bet than when needed HMG will remarkably find that the need to go Green outweighs HK democracy etc meaning this trade will continue if the Chinese allow it.

      • steve
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

        Nig1

        If I was a betting man I’d say they’ve got their eyes on Afghanistan Lithium.

        • hefner
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

          … based on Trump’s eyeing in 2017 the Afghan potential mining resources, relying on Soviet geological surveys dating from the ‘80s?
          If one is interested in Li, one would better look at Chile, Australia, China, Argentina, Canada.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      It is mad to be pushing electric cars in this way anything until the technology is competitive and sufficiently flexible for most people’s needed. Electric cars are likely to be the Betamax, eight track or Squarial (British Satellite Broadcasting) or Kodak – for those who remember. R&D fine roll out with tax payer grants idiotic!

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

        No fan of electric cars myself – because we do not have the generating capacity for us all to go electric – but they are sufficiently flexible for most people’s needs. For someone who works reasonably locally, takes the kids to football in the evenings, goes to the shops at the weekend etc. – an electric car is fine. However, for long distance driving they are obviously useless. It would be nice if:

        a) they weren’t ridiculously expensive
        b) electricity was not ridiculously expensive
        c) a scheme existed where you swap your electric care for a petrol car with a decent range when you needed one

        • Fred H
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

          might have all been very different if we had planned and built a few nuclear power stations years ago on appropriate coastal areas.

  9. oldtimer
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:03 am | Permalink

    These latest measures fall into the category marked “Never let a crisis go to waste”. This is a favourite technique of all political classes, namely to use a current issue to advance an unrelated cause.

  10. agricola
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    One of the EUs least needs is 1 million charging points unless of course they intend to set up the factories to produce them in Spain or Greece to help solve both countries horrendous unemployment.

    What the EU does will be judged by the market place and is no longer the UKs concern except that they are a customer for some of our exports. I believe that social and economic unrest will lead to some counties leaving the EU. I do not wish it on them but see it as inevitable. Until the essential building blocks of thriving economies within a common market is achieved there is no basis for monetary or political union. If the latter is to be achieved it must be with the democratic agreement of the people within each nation state. As popular democracy is not on the agenda of the EU it is likely that their route to a united states of europe will lead to political unrest or worse. We the UK may be in for a bumpy ride while recovering from Covid19 and adjusting to our new found sovereignty, I fear the EU are heading for a political and economic roller coaster.

    • Andy
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      No other country will leave the EU. At least not willingly. I guess Hungary and/or Poland may be kicked out for human rights failings. But the rest have seen the total and utter mess that you have all made of Brexit and there is precisely nobody who is going to follow anytime soon.

      They do not look at the UK in envy. They look at the UK in bemusement. Bemusement that any country – let alone one which was previously solid and sensible – could be so monumentally stupid.

      The key question for the EU will be how it responds when the UK asks to rejoin – which we will in due course. Will they recognise that the nastiness and obtuseness of the Brexiteers was just the nastiness of the Tories? Or will they associate it with all of us?

      I don’t doubt that the EU will demand electoral reform as a price for rejoining. It is well past time for the UK to become a grown up and properly representative democracy m. Never again can we be in a situation in this country where a government elected by a minority of mostly old people to remove rights from the majority.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

        No other country will leave the EU. At least not willingly.

        Your beloved Macron said recently that he believed the French people would vote to leave – if given the chance. He won’t of course give them that chance because pro EU politicians do not believe in democracy. Bit like you and other boring remainiacs.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

          Polls in France do not support your interpretation of Macron’s words in a second language.

          • Mike Wilson
            Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

            My INTERPRETATION of his words!!!! Boy, you really do grasp at straws to justify your slavish devotion to the EU.

            He said it on the Andrew Marr show.

            https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/21/emmanuel-macron-uk-yes-no-brexit-vote-mistake

            It was reported in all the papers.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

            I watched and heard him say it.

            I am not satisfied that he translated the French “pourraient” – could – correctly.

            Normally the Conditional mood is translated by using the English verb “would” and the infinitive, but that gets confusing where that verb is also one of mood.

            I think that it is quite likely that he meant “would be able to vote Leave”, “could vote Leave”.

            But it matters little.

            As I say, polls show an increase in French support for the European Union as the UK’s shambles becomes ever more apparent.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

        Electoral reform like in Ireland where there was 5 months of wrangling after their election and they now have a cobbled together government with many policies different to the ones people thought they had voted for.

        • bill brown
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Some of teh most sucessful countreis in Europe have calition government, Nordics, Germany , Iceland, , Switzerland and so on, so stop your lack of factual resaons

          • Edward2
            Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

            I spoke about Ireland
            My facts were correct.
            Your typing is awful.

          • NickC
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:19 am | Permalink

            Bill B, They also have referendums which go against the EU, but which are ignored.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:23 am | Permalink

        Andy, “properly representative democracy” as in the Netherlands, Eire and France, which all voted against the EU constitution, but still had it imposed via Lisbon? That sort of representative democracy?

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

          They didn’t have it imposed.

          They voted for the Lisbon Treaty, freely.

          What do you think happened? They were marched to the polls at gunpoint and made to vote for it?

    • beresford
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 10:38 am | Permalink

      We are still passive members of the EU, paying in and following its rules, including the Common Fisheries Policy. There is plenty of time still for Boris to bottle it and sign an ‘extension’ that effectively traps us forever, or a BRINO deal that leaves us under EU control. ‘It ain’t over until the fat lady sings’.

      • Long
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        It will be over for Johnson and the Tory party if he thinks he can sell us BRINO.

  11. Andy
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Amusing. A Brexiteer moaning about a lack of public analysis. Extremely ironic.

    The EU came together and compromised. Nobody got it all. Everybody got something. Everybody have a bit of ground. There were no losers – only winners. What a great way to work.

    Via this agreement every EU country can now borrow money to pay off Coronavirus debts at the best possible interest rate because the EU has the best possible credit rating from all the main credit ratings agencies. Unlike Brexit Britain.

    I suspect EU leaders were quite thankful that the cancerous UK Conservative Party was not in the room. As these posh toddlers have been undermining cooperation for decades.

    • steve
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      Put quite simply,especially for you :

      You wouldn’t even exist were it not for the people you obsessively berate.

      • bill brown
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

        Steve,

        We might have ideas about some of Andy’s contributions, but I think you should explain yourself

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

      Via this agreement every EU country can now borrow money to pay off Coronavirus debts at the best possible interest rate because the EU has the best possible credit rating from all the main credit ratings agencies. Unlike Brexit Britain.

      And, AGAIN, you talk complete and utter bolleaux. The latest sale of government debt was sold at a negative yield. Get a grip.

  12. formula57
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    In the light of “establishing the important principles that the EU can borrow on the balance sheet of all the member states, and can transfer money from richer to poorer countries following such borrowing” should we not have a mass clap for the German taxpayer?

    Mr. Rutte’s tantrum proved pointless although he can blind his voters with the news that he obtained a Thatcheresque rebate. The Commission enjoyed a huge victory with proposals for taxes on plastics, digital and perhaps too financial transactions to fund it wicked antics directly.

  13. Adam
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    Citizens of sovereign countries who have worked to earn what they own will be alarmed at some other body grasping authority to shovel large chunks of their money into donations for less capable others.

    Collective effort on efficient projects to enable economies of scale helps if shared fairly. Individual voluntary donations as ad hoc assistance for others could also be sensible.

    In contrast, sovereign nations submitting requests to the EU for permission is tantamount to begging to receive each previous month’s salary.

  14. Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:45 am | Permalink

    In a rational world the controls the EUC place on spending would seem to be reasonable — but the EU has never been about people, it has always been about power.

    The EUC simply do not seem to care what problems they foist on ordinary people – Let’s face it, they and the other EU organisations – especially the most undemocratic parliament, continually impoverish those that pay for their own lavish lifestyles.

    If ever there was needed an argument FOR nationalism, then the EU is it.

  15. Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

    Please excuse an extra post
    It seems the government is intending to totally remove free speech on the back of the Russian report. Talk about 1984 plus plus!

    The woolly thinking from those proposing that there be only one version of the facts is without doubt the most treacherous thing they could do to destroy any faith we have left in government.

    Why do alternative views appear on social media – Because we frequently do not believe the official versions!!!

    • MH
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

      Spot on Bryan Harris

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      What a load of Postmodernist nonsense.

      Facts are what they are. The different “versions” are all false.

      The acceleration due to gravity is 9.81 m/s/s, not 2.32 0r 11.78.

      Covid 19 will behave according to its properties, not to a load of bluster from any politician.

      • Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:02 am | Permalink

        Don’t worry Martin – it’s all a bit too much to understand for you I can see … It will eventually become clear when it’s too late

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

          Nobody could distrust this Government more than me, Bryan.

          But if you think that a number of mutually exclusive propositions can all be true, then you really do have problems.

  16. Richard1
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    It is an important moment in the creation of a federal Europe. Borrowing on the balance sheet of the whole EU (for the purpose of saving the euro project – let’s be in no doubt about that) is something Remain and pro-EU voices before the referendum told us would never happen. But it’s logical it should. What would the UK’s share of the €750bn have been and what would our net £12bn pa have become? It would be reasonable to assume we’d have been on the hook for £20bn pa at least had we stayed.

  17. Gordon
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    The EU doesn’t want recovery, it wants control over people and the scamdemic is working well for that. They’re pushing the green lies for the same reason. Got to roll out those electric vehicle chargers and get people into vehicles that are far inferior to the ones they have now but can be tracked and controlled much better.
    In fact they’re pretty much identical to the gang we have here. Keep pushing the eco BS whilst continuing the virus fear mongering. The estimates are 200,000 deaths due to lockdown and NHS failure whilst death figures for the virus have been grossly inflated and is actually far below the usual deaths from respiratory disease.
    Even minimal research into the numbers and facts reveal what’s going on, it’s just a shame that state education has produced a population so brain numbed they can’t se it.

    • Pauline Baxter
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

      Agreed Gordon. Due to the pandemic scam Britons are now living in the Communist State of U.K.

  18. Lifelogic
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:15 am | Permalink

    “This EU summit fiasco is the final proof that we need a clean Brexit
    Britain must break free from EU faux-federalism to rescue its economy from this crippling lockdown’

    Liam Halligan in the Telegraph today is surely right.

  19. Ian @Barkham
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:17 am | Permalink

    Todays MsM headlines ‘Britain close to abandoning hope of Brexit trade deal’

    Why did we waste our time. The EU summed it up in the WA talks ‘The UK is our colony now’ That is the only agenda the EU have had, which is why their redlines have been their rules, their laws, their courts.

    UK territory, fishing, had to accept this agenda. How companies traded within the UK had to accept this agenda.

    The aim was to stop the UK becoming free, in the hope one day it would relent and be absorbed completely, as the rest of continental Europe is now being, all under the control of a run-away Commission.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      From the MsM, “However, neither side is backing down on fishing rights, so-called level playing field guarantees, governance of the deal and the role of the European Court of Justice.”

      The UK is expected to back down and give the EU Control of all the things they would never reciprocate on.

      So the UK doesn’t get to control the fishing in EU waters, the UK doesn’t get to decide on what the level playing field is in the EU and the UK courts are not arbiter of the EU. Put that way round and you see how nutty the EU colonial control ambitions are. The EU never wanted any form of trade or relationship with the UK – just control .

      • Pam
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

        Sure. The UK is in a really weak position, it has been since it decided to be isolated instead of having 27 countries at its side. You were warned

        • Long
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

          Equivalent tariffs on goods will really hit us bad with that £90bn p.a. EU trade deficit and no EU membership fee. D’oh!

        • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

          Standing alone and thriving (we get our territorial waters back so can sell our fish to the desperate EU who have already destroyed African waters, is strong dear.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

            All this “we”, “us” and “our” is really quite funny.

            Seventy percent of the land area of England still belongs to only 0.6% of the population, and most of that to only a few hundred inheritors by primogeniture.

            It dates back to 1067, when William the First took every single cottage, ditch, field, copse and hedgerow from our ancestors, to be his personal, private property. The 1086 Domesday Book details how he shared it out among his clan.

            Many people managed to get some back as common land after the Plague, but were deprived of that again by the landowners’ puppet governments’ Inclosure Acts in the C18th and C19th.

            You can ask for it back if you like, but they have not been in a giving mood for nine hundred and fifty-two years, and I do not see them changing now.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

            Yet every person has the right to own freehold land.
            You live in the past

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:40 am | Permalink

            Wrong again, Ed.

            People under eighteen years do not have that right.

            Yes, you can buy back, at a very high price, a tiny bit of what was taken by force from your forebears, and be humbly grateful.

            Oh dear. How truly submissive you are.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

            Pedantic.
            If you cannot own freehold land then you are slave to the State.
            Just like socialist dictatorships in the 20th century that killed 100 million of their own citizens.

  20. steadyeddie
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    Once again we see this diary criticising the EU when it’s general approach is not hugely different to UK or US policy except it shows a group of countries working together for their greater good. Meanwhile we are isolating ourselves from Europe, to our cost, and from Russia and China, no bad thing but we are left in hock to the USA. As the WTO has indicated: we are leaving the first division to join the third division!

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

      Is it the greater good of the ruling elite – the Commission, or does it serve the People.

      Just because the Guardian Newspaper says that is a WTO quote it doesn’t make it true.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

      Yes, it has been wonderful being in the Single Market with the massive balance of trade deficit we have enjoyed with the EU. Truly uplifting and hugely beneficial to this country.

  21. Hope
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    OT: relevant to UK taxpayers’ finances. JR, could you inform us of the expected £32 billion loss from RBS and the taxpayers continuing 62% stake in a poorly run bank that will change its name today and appoint a climate change advisor!

    When can we expect U.K. Govt get its act together after ten years in office?

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

      Should have been broken up, back into its original components from the outset

      • Long
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        And let Scotland bail it out.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

      When can we expect U.K. Govt get its act together after ten years in office?

      When the Tory Party finds a decent leader. We have now had 3 lame ducks in a row. Cameron was bad, May was unbelievable, Boris is proving to be utterly unfit for the job. It’s enough to make a bloke vote Labour.

      • Fred H
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

        Well, I’m having trouble scanning the horizon for an éminence grise, – no Dominic Cummings might be gone after a couple more cock-ups.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:30 am | Permalink

        Well, A couple of months ago Labour began to look electable under Starmer, instead of Agent Cob. But since his rise to wokery and becoming Sir Kneel Smarmer, he has lost a lot of ground.

  22. Sharon Jagger
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    Listening on Talk Radio at the moment, a minister is wittering on about net zero carbon AGAIN!

    What is the obsession with electric cars etc , they aren’t even green!

    To achieve what ministers seem to want to achieve is not possible without pushing us back to pre-industrial times… I can understand Extinction Rebellion wanting that, because that’s their raison d’etre. But as with the BLM activists why can’t ministers see the plan?

    • steve
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

      Sharon Jagger

      “What is the obsession with electric cars etc , they aren’t even green!”

      No they are not green, but they are crap. They give bigger profit to manufacturers, and permit greater control by the manufacturers such as non – user serviceability, designed lifespan etc.

      Unfortunately we live in a world where manufacturers tell us what we can have. The way to beat that is simply not to buy.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

      Listening on Talk Radio at the moment, a minister is wittering on about net zero carbon AGAIN!

      There is nothing wrong with NET zero carbon. Is there? It is just the way our current politicians are trying to get there.

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

        Well all the plants die, they live on carbon. They create oxygen on which we live. Is this the real crisis ‘where billions of people die’?

        • Mike Wilson
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

          You obviously have a bit of trouble with understanding basic science. Net zero means carbon balance. It does not mean no carbon. Get a grip.

      • Mark
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

        Only if you want to reduce us to living in grinding poverty.

    • glen cullen
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

      One can only assume that certain MPs have been paid off – there just isn’t any other rational explaination

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

      Going green is going to be harder now that railways and bus companies are going to go bust.

  23. Bill B.
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    ‘The Commission has used the Covid 19 damage as a means to lever a bigger budget out of the member states.’

    I think you mean ‘the lockdown damage’, Sir John. A virus doesn’t take government decisions.

    • steve
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

      Bill B

      “A virus doesn’t take government decisions.”

      Even a virus could make better decisions, I rather suspect.

      • Everhopeful
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

        And this must be a particularly naughty little virus, crafty too.
        Look how it has forced them to destroy the economy.
        It runs circles round the ministers. Of late it has been taunting them about the havoc it is going to cause this winter. ( Unlike most viruses it can talk..that’s how they always know things like when we will suddenly need masks!)
        And there won’t be a thing they can do about it…cos they have to follow its orders precisely!
        Masks,goggles,hazmat suits, galoshes and probably forced entry to make sure we are all “ social bl**dy distancing”.

  24. John E
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile the U.K. and U.S. have abandoned efforts to reach a free trade deal by the end of the year. Perhaps you could tell us what’s that really about?

    You can’t spend forever writing about the internal politics of a body we no longer belong to. Time to accept that you won – get over it and get on with delivering the benefits.

  25. BJC
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    How anyone ever believed we could negotiate with an intransigent EU political construct that routinely fails to keep to its own rule of law is beyond me. Their arrogance is breathtaking, their self-belief unshakeable and their shame, non-existent. I despair for the peoples of Europe.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

      If only the Peoples of Europe lived in a proper democracy the whole world would benefit

      • bill brown
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

        Ian@Barkham

        According to teh EIU, most of the northerrn European countries have more democracy then we do.
        What is your comment to that?

        • Edward2
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

          Who are the EIU?

          • bill brown
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:21 am | Permalink

            Economist Intalligence Unit

    • Fred H
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

      not many on here ever thought we could negotiate. It was either ‘walk away’ or ‘what will we give them?’

    • hefner
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

      BJC, please list all the occurrences these last four years when the intransigent EU27 and the EU Commission/Parliament have routinely failed to keep their own rule of law. Thanks in advance.

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

        They are legally bound to negotiate a full relationship agreement post Article 50, but then demanded negotiation of UK obligations first.

        I can’t list them all, but that is a critical one which is going to leave them paying £13 billion net pa for access to the UK market.

        EU says they can’t subsidise member states. They do.
        EU law says they cannot unilaterally recognize a country – Germany recognised Croatia and the EU fell in.

        There is plenty more of course.

        • hefner
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

          Indeed, they are legally bound to negotiate a full relationship with the leaving country. Unfortunately neither Art.50 of the TEU nor Art.218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union say anything about whether one or the other party can/should/would demand negotiation of the obligations first. It was demanded at the very start of the EU-UK negotiations by the EU and accepted by the UK Government of the day.

          I would think both the EU and the UK share some responsibility in the present situation.

    • bill brown
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      BJC

      There are also a lt of EU citizens who despair for the UK citizens, including me as a Uk citizen

  26. Jack Falstaff
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    As far as I’m concerned, by accepting that the UK should not be included in the Covid package, either as payers or beneficiaries (ha, ha), the EU has de facto acknowledged that we no longer owe them any money, so there should be no divorce bill whatsoever.
    Then, as far as a trade deal with them is concerned, I think we should just leave the offer of free trade open with them and set a good example by giving them easy and cheap access to any British-invented Covid vaccine when it comes into production.

  27. Everhopeful
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    All I keep wondering is ….
    What on earth would Mrs Thatcher have said?
    Especially with her being incredibly intelligent and knowing a great deal about science!
    As far as I can see, she was much opposed to ramping up fear and alarm at illness and thought that public health warnings should stay in the Dr’s surgery.
    Not exploited for political reasons!

  28. John Partington
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    Another grand over-bloated Ponzi scheme.

  29. Dave Andrews
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    Yet more debt. The ECB will have to print more money to lend to banks so they can lend it to the EU with interest.
    Loans or grants, what does it matter? It’s still debt that has to be serviced.

    • bill brown
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

      Dave Andrews,

      Just like the BoE

  30. hefner
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    Interesting, to be compared to today’s FT ‘Despite historic EU deal, deep rifts remain’ & ‘Investors hail Brussels as a new force in bond markets’.

    And as a dessert, ‘UK abandons hope of US trade deal by end of year’.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

      You are reading to much into Free Trade Deal’s the UK is the largest foreign investor in the US. The UK gets to trade with the US comfortably without the petty controlling back biting we get from the EU Rulers.

    • mancunius
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

      The euro-fanatical FT is unlikely to print the headline ‘EU in Deepest Doo-Doo’ – even though it would better reflect the truth.

      • hefner
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

        I agree, the same way the Telegraph will not write anything going against the biases of its Tory readers. Of all of the papers this morning the DT was the only one not addressing on its cover page the Russian dossier.
        One should simply know what one is reading and allow for the potential bias. Are you doing that?

        • NickC
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:50 am | Permalink

          Hefner, You mean the Russia dossier, influenced by the discredited Christopher Steele, that provides no evidence other than – shock! horror! – Russia looks after its own interests? Perhaps we should look at external influence on the 2016 Referendum – but that should be all the external influence, including PotUS Obama and the IMF, for example.

          • hefner
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

            Yes, I mean the 47 page document available on docs.google.com as 20200721_HC632_CCS001_CCS1019402408-001_ISC_Russia_Report
            I will let you judge how much of it is Christopher Steele related.

          • hefner
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 5:31 am | Permalink

            NickC, I hope you are an intelligent person, will read the 47 pages of the ISC report made available to the public and make your own mind.

  31. glen cullen
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

    Closer to home

    The government website says it’s the ‘’law’’ from Friday 24th July to wear a mask (face covering) in shops etc …..can some point me to the actual legislation

    With the confusion surrounding the last round of law making by media is this new law, an actual statute law, inclusion to Statutory Instrument, a regulation or guidance ?

    • hefner
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

      PotUS is now wearing one in public: isn’t that enough for you?

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

        Only to visit a hospital!

      • Fred H
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

        election looming!

      • glen cullen
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

        Thanks hefner but I was actually looking for a link or direct reference to a new UK law

    • glen cullen
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

      So the government is telling us its mandatory but no one can point to the LAW….didn’t this happen in 1939 – we’re suppose to have a parliament to keep our government in check.

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

        Sainsbury had stated it will not demand masks. I will be shopping in Sainsbury for the first time in decades.

  32. Tabulazero
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:13 am | Permalink

    You should not be bitter that the EU did not explode as I suspect you had hoped for.

    Your biggest export market is putting in place a stimulus package that should help it fight the upcoming recession. This is actually good news for the British economy.

    As of the level of details, you know very well that this is not discussed at the level of head of states. For comparison purposes, I doubt Boris Johnson had much input in the package put together by the Chancellor and the Treasury.

    • Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      Implode… it’s not over yet…

    • Pauline Baxter
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

      EU IS NOT OUR BIGGEST EXPORT MARKET. Get your head into gear.

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

      Tabulazero, Yet you keep telling us the EU is not a single political/economic entity (an empire of numerous states) but simply individual states which occasionally co-operate. On that basis, our single biggest export market is the USA (Germany is second).

  33. bill brown
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    Sir JR,

    Good and interesting analysis.

    The reason why most of the money will be dispensed later,is because most the countries are supporting thir own economies till the end of the year and there is therefore a reason , why most of the momeny will be spent in later years. These are sturcutural funds and not short term aid-packages, that are meant to assist in i strucutural changes in countreis like, Spain Italy and Greece.

  34. Mike Wilson
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Do any of the politicians in the 27 EU member countries ever stop and ask themselves – ‘what is the EU for?’ Particularly the countries that are net contributors. Fiscal union means one government. It is hard enough to govern one country. It is impossible to govern 27 countries. The EU should only ever have been about trade. The second they started on the road to a single currency was the moment they sowed the seeds of its eventual demise.

    • Pam
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

      The EU has never only been about trade. You really need to learn some history.

      • Newmania
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

        No it is also an expression of enlightened Western Values and a determination that the Nationalist horrors of the 20th century should not return .
        It is about cooperation standards and an attempt to capture the benefits of the Free market within a civilised society . The decision of the UK to become a parochial back water droning on about its lost Empire will impoverish us spiritually and intellectually as well as in the more obvious sense.

        • Mike Wilson
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

          No, that’s what the UN and NATO was for.

        • NickC
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:00 am | Permalink

          Newmania, It was the very lack of respect for the nationalism of other nations that caused the horrors. The EU is duplicating that mistake.

      • Oggy
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

        Very true, we all know Edward Heath lied to the electorate when he said the ‘Common market’ is just about trade. If he had told the real truth then about the future EU’s objectives LEAVE would have walked the 1975 referendum.

      • Fred H
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

        true – the Germans want to economically walk all over Europe, while the French are happy to pal up, like never before.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:41 pm | Permalink

        Of course not.

        It is a moral project.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

          Moral as in socialism.

          • bill brown
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:19 am | Permalink

            EDWARD 2

            you still have not found out what socialism is

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

            100 million deaths in the 20th century is all I need to know where socialism ends.

            It starts with the best of intentions and ends with you having to eat your pets to stay alive

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

          European Union rules on state subsidy were claimed by the Leave campaigns to make socialism illegal.

          Make up what passes for your minds, do.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

            That’s new one.
            Socialism illegal…what a wonderful law.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

        I wrote ‘SHOULD only ever have been about trade’. You need to learn to understand plain English.

  35. Posted July 22, 2020 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    Interested to know why the ‘foot draggers’, as our friends like Denmark and Holland are called, didn’t veto this…could they have and if not what was offered to stop them John?

    Reply Yes they could have vetoed. They accepted reductions in grant sums and conditionality/performance review

    • hefner
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

      More importantly, they also got an increase in the rebate on their contribution.

      • Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

        Oh – that’s ‘important’. From a Remainer 😂😂 — or are you a Thatcherite?

        • bill brown
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:18 am | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          What about raisingteh quality of your pooor contributions?

          • Fred H
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:17 am | Permalink

            Bill, please work on your spelling etc. Write in a product with a spell checker, and then cut/paste into here.

          • NickC
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:02 am | Permalink

            Bill B, What about raising the quality of your contributions?

          • Mark B
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:56 am | Permalink

            Pot. Kettle. Black.

        • David Brown
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

          What is a Thatcherite?
          New term Ive not heard

          • Mark B
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:57 am | Permalink

            OK. Another one to add to my list

  36. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Anon. Yes, my thoughts exactly when I was watching it. The whole thing is farcical now but the BBC drive much of the drivel stirring up racial hatred as they go.

  37. Fedupsoutherner
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Well John, looking at the contributions yesterday I would say you certainly have your answer. Only the usual suspects who always disagree with the majority want Scotland to stay.

  38. mancunius
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    I chuckled when I noticed that Charles Michel had indeed managed to get his idea adopted of making any future vote on the continuation of the scheme (i.e. as to whether the ‘reforming’ countries really are’reforming’) subject to qualified majority voting, i.e. removing the veto.
    The Frugals agreed to this, but I think they have miscalculated. Cunningly re-defining the rules and weighting of the qualified majority system is something Brussels is expert at, and a bit of creative maths will enable the debt union to proceed apace, even when the Frugals have realized they’ve been done.
    Germany’s absence from the Frugal side scarcely needs explanation. Its mercantilist dependency on solvent customers means it will gladly agree to lending them money, particularly if its somebody else’s money.

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:03 am | Permalink

      Mancunius, Exactly right. German mercantilism wins again.

  39. ukretired123
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

    The Dutch have taken over Britain’s EU common sense concerns (perceived role of troublemaker by France and Germany at al) and hate it !
    They all now realise how much they relied on UK £££££s just when they needed to prove le grand project’s relevance…

    • steve
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

      ukretired

      Holland has been a good friend to the UK for a long time, I’d like to think we would remember this when the EU disintegrates.

      • Fred H
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

        The Dutch have reason to be friendly to the British – here we go again, remember WW2.

      • Mark B
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 5:02 am | Permalink

        Steve

        True. But Holland and others, especially Germany, always used the UK as a means to slow integration to their liking whist maintaining the facade of PRO-EU. Germany will always act in her own best interest.

  40. mancunius
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

    O/T – A law should be enacted to prevent the press from printing inaccurate fearmongering ‘news’ about the financial markets: the Telegraph trumpets ‘The FTSE loses ground on Brexit trade deal gloom – London market in the red’. The FTSE 100 is precisely 0.78% down – a drop in the ocean. The DAX is also down, and the Italian FTSE MIB is down by 0.80%.

    There is no ‘trade deal gloom’, merely quiet rejoicing that – so far – the UK government has not stupidly given way on at least some of the basics of national sovereignty.

    The government should formally announce the end of negotiations in view of the clear breach of good faith and ‘best endeavours’ by the EU, rendering the WA null and avoid. The NI protocol should also be abrogated. There is nothing in the GFA that prevents customs e-registration on each side, remote from the border.

    • Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:05 pm | Permalink

      Need to be done without delay.

    • hefner
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

      Do you realise that your comment ‘0.78% down’ doesn’t mean a thing if it ain’t got the reference date to which to compare. Sloppy, sloppy.
      If I take as a reference 16 March FTSE100 @ 5190, today’s value (6202) is up by 16.3%.

      • mancunius
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:09 am | Permalink

        0.78% on the previous day’s closing price of course. When a daily paper reports a ‘drop in the markets’ or ‘in the red’ as a news item, it refers to the change since yesterday. That seems far too obvious to need explanation.

        • hefner
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

          Then who in their right mind would be bothered to comment on such a small drop when in the past much bigger drops (June 2016, March 2020) have first occurred then the market recovered over a few days or at most weeks.
          Might just show the journalist did not know what to write about?

  41. Mark
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

    It’s interesting to note how the projected net contributions and benefits shape up across the EU on a per head of population basis:

    https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/byVC4/1/

    Luxembourg has been asked to disgorge some of its tax haven profits, and perhaps that is why Ireland is in second place as a per head contributor. Some countries seem to have been punished with lower than might be expected benefits because they do not conform to the EU’s ideals. France seems to get away with a low real contribution – and Germany’s is really not that much better.

  42. Newmania
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    Of course if as seemed likely the EU had been too divided to agree this sort of extraordinary united action John Redwood would have been telling us how useless it was in a crisis .
    Instead as temporary measure but for the first time, the EU will be able to run a federal deficit raising commonly-issued debt and channel a large part of it in grants to countries most in need .
    It falls well short of fiscal union but allows the enlightened self interest of t emergency fiscal transfers. They will help counter strains in the single market by allowing all governments to support workers and businesses through the recovery. In terms of market perceptions it has already caused a surge of confidence and John Redwoods stab in the dark about the timing of dispersal is made up as far as I can tell
    The UK government has abandoned all restraint both in borrowing levels and high risk Covid 19 strategy . For a small economic unit like the UK the future is fraught with danger

    Europe has risen to the challenge.
    The UK has failed

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

      Newmania, It was always obvious that the EU would cobble together a “plan”. They are experts at horse-trading.

      • hefner
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

        Indeed, what do you expect when 27 different countries have to agree on something, specially money matters. If it had not been the case, what would you have told us?

        Is the UK (England?) so much better when very soon it will able to adopt Sinn Fein‘s motto ‘We ourselves’?

  43. David Brown
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

    I think Britain has its own very serious financial problems and economic crisis with daily increasing unemployment to be writing about what the EU is doing.
    At least the EU has a plan, here there is no plan.

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

      I’m pretty confident that unemployment will fall more quickly here than in the EU. Why? Because we attracted so many millions of EU nationals to work here while Club Med couldn’t generate jobs for them.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

        Indeed and it could be far better Still if only we had sensible tax, economic, energy, and (smaller) government policies. Alas we have essentially yet more deluded socialists in charge. Looking to mug people even further with hikes in CGT next it seems. A tax which, at up to 28% without indexation, is already far too high. He already killed the entrepreneurs’ relief – slashing the threshold to 1/10 of what it was. All so he can piss money away on HS2, idiotic green crap grants and subsidising Mc Donald’s and similar on Monday to Wednesday! While other arms of government send a fortune to get people to slim down.

    • Fred H
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

      What sort of a plan ignores numerous member countries in dire economic peril, while other members object to their financial contribution, all this not even to do anything about the situation for 18 months?

      The drowning man is not helped when from the beach a crowd shout ‘we’ll throw you a lifebelt in about 20 minutes’

    • Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

      The EU also has 50% youth unemployment without a ‘crisis’ and that’s will many million EU youngsters having moved to the Sterling-zone.

      • bill brown
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:15 am | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        you reallly have to stop this nonsense, yes some of the southern countries have high youth unemployment but most of them do not.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

          WRONG.

          • bill brown
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

            most of northern and central Europe does notahve high youth unemployment.
            thank you

        • NickC
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:07 am | Permalink

          Bill B, All of the southern EU states have high unemployment, not just “some”.

          • hefner
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

            Indeed. Youth unemployment 2019.
            Greece 36.1%, Spain 30.6%, Italy 29.3%, Sweden 20.6%, France 19.9%, Portugal 19.3%, Lux. 18.2%, Romania 17.5%, Finland 17.4%, Slovakia 16.7%, Euro area 15.6%, Croatia 15.5%, EU 14.9% …

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

            What a dreadful set of figures.

    • Edward2
      Posted July 22, 2020 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      They are just shaking their magic money tree.
      It isn’t really a plan.

      • bill brown
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:17 am | Permalink

        Edward 2
        As the whole plan is not yet articulted, your conclusions are tehrefore based on lose assumptins and not worth thepaper it is written on

        • Edward2
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

          The plan is available on line.
          Look it up and read it.
          I have.

          • hefner
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

            One thing is to read it, but did you understand it? Did you take off your anti-EU glasses first or did you put them on? That is the question.

          • bill brown
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

            Edward 2

            Not how it will be applied in detail and th repayments still to be decided, I ahve r3ead it as well

          • Edward2
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

            All the money is created by shaking the magic money tree.
            Yet more debt.
            When voters in the wealthy nations find out their tax money is being spent in other countries they may well be very cross.

          • hefner
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

            Interestingly, these bonds (if that what they are in fine) will represent only about 1 to 2% of the EU27 GNP. Furthermore, there already are possible ways to cover at least part of the money borrowed on the money markets: a tax on non-recyclable plastic (€0.80/kg) has already been voted and will be applied from 01/01/’21. Under discussion a tax on GAFA, a carbon tax, a tax on financial transactions are still among possible ways to finance the recently agreed plan.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

            Comparing the bonds to GNP of 27 nations is a ridiculous statistical comparison.
            It is always more tax on the productive private sector to pay for an ever increasing sized public sector.

  44. glen cullen
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

    The UK rescue plan still in force – news yesterday

    Illegal immigration into Britain continues to escalate, with more than 150 people and a dozen boats coming across the Channel on Tuesday

  45. multiID
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    The Netherlands led the group of frugal five- yes- but Mark Rutte is facing national elections next year- there’s always a reason

    Otherwise it’s great for stability and confidence to see the 27 holding together- it has to be an example to us all of how collegiality works in the best sense – especially now that we see the US falling apart and China on the warpath. Have to say though I am not looking forward to trade deals by WTO. Rules. reminds me too much of the 1950’s 1960′ and delays with large warehouses and with too much officialdom and paperwork- but hey! That’s what the people voted for.

  46. Pauline Baxter
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    That’s all very fine Sir John. I’ve wanted a FULL EXIT FROM E.U. for years. Looks like your government will actually get it BUT…………
    Now with the excuse of Covid your government is intent on turning Britain into a POLICE STATE.
    And I don’t mean your old tag of ‘party of law and order’ (you can’t even deal with BLM or border control in the channel).
    No I mean enforced lockdowns, muzzles, track and trace, all personal details on-line and you are probably going to resort to forced vaccinations next.
    Might just as well be living under the CCP.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:55 am | Permalink

      +1

  47. Will in Hampshire
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

    Given the fact that this country left the European Union in January, perhaps we don’t need quite such detailed assessments of goings-on in Brussels anymore.

    • mancunius
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:21 am | Permalink

      You can live next door in a separate detached house and still be interested when you can overhear your neighbours kicking up a noisy hullabaloo about who’s going to pay the credit card instalments, who owes what to whom, and who left the fridge door open – and they then try to kill each other in the middle of the night.
      So yes, we do want to keep up with their goings-on, just in case they take it into their heads to burn their house down.

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:09 am | Permalink

      Will, Why not? You enjoy ignorance?

      • hefner
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

        No, it is not always ignorance, sometimes censorship.
        I had produced what I thought was an O/T reasonable time lag of UK and EU developments in hydrogen projects these last two years and indirectly comparing them. Then simply I guess because I had pointed that Daniel Hannan and Tom Tugendhat were apparently behind the curve, Sir John must have thought it was some crime of lese-majeste.

        • hefner
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

          time line, sorry.

  48. Bailey
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

    We should’t be too concerned about the
    EU – we have already left – we’ll just have to get over this tendency to keep harping back. We didn’t vote for a new FTA with them either. Time to move on

  49. Ed M
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John,

    Just comparing quality and service of a similar product from China versus UK – on a major international e-commerce site for one particular product I am interested in (miniature vintage objects). The difference is extraordinary! Have other people noticed something like this or is just a one-off? If not a one-off, then this is a hopeful sign for UK industry in this sector at least. We need to find a way to encourage more British to buy British!

    Here are the differences between UK and China for this product:

    UK – MUCH, MUCH BETTER PRODUCT QUALITY:

    UK – materials: metal and glass
    China – materials: plastic

    UK – FAR, FAR MORE / BETTER REVIEWS:

    UK – reviews: 2,160
    China – reviews: o

    UK – 20% CHEAPER

    UK – cost: £11:40 + £4:40 delivery. Total = £15:90
    China – cost: £15:60 + £4:78 delivery. Total = £19.93

    UK – MUCH, MUCH QUICKER DELIVERY

    UK delivered by: earliest 3 days
    China delivered by: earliest 5 weeks

  50. ukretired123
    Posted July 22, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

    O/T can you SJR lend some light on a DT article ” This is the final proof HMRC hates Britain’s self-employed” by Janet Daley on a new Digital Tax Returns system mandatory for SMEs please?

  51. XYXY
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:37 am | Permalink

    Yes it looks as though we got out just in time. I wonder how many other countries will follow suit – and even if the Euro can survive the coming shocks.

    It would be interesting to see your take on the long-term prospects for the EU and the Euro. Will they survive?

    I personally hope not – it seems to be built the wrong way in terms of democracy and accountability, effectively a socialist mega-structure. If they wish to have a European super-State I think they need to build it differently, for example with direct election of those who propose laws.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

      The euro is up to around 91p, and above its five-year average against the USD just now.

      It’s fine.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

        That’s odd because when I looked it has now fallen to 86 from 92 in January

        • hefner
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

          0.9116 on 24/07 at 08:50
          Edward2, do you ever check before commenting?

          • hefner
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

            I will be good, give you a little advice and an opportunity to learn how not to look like an old foggy: What about putting a currency exchange app on your phone, … and check it before commenting.

          • hefner
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

            Sorry, old fogey …

          • bill brown
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 11:51 am | Permalink

            Hefner,

            No , he does not I am afraid

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

            Yes I looked it up on a currency website.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

            Odd because I’ve just it looked on my phone again.
            It says
            1 US dollar equals 0.86 Euto
            24th July 18.16.

        • hefner
          Posted July 28, 2020 at 10:51 am | Permalink

          I hope that you might finally have figured out that if in January 1$ was equal to €0.92 and in July 1$ is now equal to €0.86 it means either that the $ has depreciated wrt the € or that the € has appreciated wrt the $. Which is exactly the opposite to what you were saying on 23/07 @ o9:40.

          There is another conclusion to draw about you, but I’ll restrain myself.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 28, 2020 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

            Nonsense.
            Martin never mentioned the pound
            Reread his original post.
            You come on here all scientific, very careful about data and words yet when it suits your purpose you ignore the obvious.
            Recall what Martin said….
            “The Euro is up to around 91p and above its 5 year average against the USD just now”

          • hefner
            Posted July 28, 2020 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

            Edward2, I worry about your sanity: how can you say that Martin never mentioned the pound when he quoted ’91p’. Pence only exist with pound, euro and dollar have cents.
            Can’t you realise how ridiculous you are denying this simple truth.

      • hefner
        Posted July 25, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

        Hey, Edward2, as you have obviously not realised (because usually you do not read properly) Martin’s original post was ‘the EURO is up to around 91p’. Which shows he was talking about the €/£ rate, and not the €/$ rate.
        If as an ‘active exporting businessman’ you are not able to figure out something as simplistic as an exchange rate, no surprise that the country might have some problems.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 25, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

          Hey hef because Martin wrote, and I quote:-

          “The Euro is up to around 91p andvabove its five year average against the USD just now”

          How does that mean the pound rate against the dollar?

          • Edward2
            Posted July 25, 2020 at 10:19 am | Permalink

            Or the pound rate against the euro.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 25, 2020 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

          I love the hef gang and their faithful supporting group.
          Bill who cannot type and Hef whoo needs to tell us how hugely clever he is in every post.
          And Martin who lives in Wales where a majority voted to leave and after four years still cannot face that fact.
          Hilarious losers.

          • hefner
            Posted July 26, 2020 at 7:44 am | Permalink

            Yeah, man, whatever you say.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 26, 2020 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

            A decent response would be to just accept you were wrong.
            Martin said what he said as I quoted.
            You are so keen to attack me you fail to be accurate.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

  • John’s Books

  • Email Alerts

    You can sign up to receive John's blog posts by e-mail by entering your e-mail address in the box below.

    Enter your email address:

    Delivered by FeedBurner

    The e-mail service is powered by Google's FeedBurner service. Your information is not shared.

  • Map of Visitors

    Locations of visitors to this page