1 million charger points

Let us look in more detail at the example of a suitable Green Project as proposed by the EU. Creating a network of charger points is certainly an important idea to persuade more car buyers they would like an electric vehicle. It is range worry that puts lot of people off.

It will not be easy to carry this out. To have sufficient points in the densely populated area of the Franco German border lands with the Netherlands. Belgium and Luxembourg, for example, five countries will need to submit plans to the EU for funding for these charger centres. They will need to ensure they provide fast chargers. They also need to make sure they can accommodate all makes of electric car equally with the right cables and plugs. Payment systems need to be easy and not dependent on prior sign up or monthly payments.

The aim of 1 million sounds ambitious until you think about the realities of the vehicle stock in the EU. There are some 230 million passenger cars in the EU (x UK). Providing charger points for 1 million spread over such a vast area may not be that much. . There will of course be charging at homes and work places to take some of the strain. There are a large number of vans, smaller trucks and other vehicles as well to cater for.

The issue is should government be supplying these facilities? Should they be grant financed, when diesel and petrol stations are provided commercially? If they become government assets, what charging policy will be applied for the supply of electricity? Is the aim to generate a return on the capital invested?

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283 Comments

  1. Mark B
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    The issue is should government be supplying these facilities?

    By government do you mean the taxpayer ? That is, should the Middle Class and poor work and pay for the Rich’s transport? Because let us face it, only the wealthy can afford these cars. The rest of us will be forced on to public transport.

    We can build the infrastructure but how are we going to fuel it ? We simply do not have enough capacity and, buying energy from abroad is expensive.

    If the government was to favour hybrids then that would make a bit of sense. Electric for short journeys or in traffic. The ICE for longer journeys where the infrastructure is in place.

    We have also borrowed vast amounts of money and trashed the economy if one was taking note. So I do not think we are in a position to spend, spend, spend. We don’t need yet another White Elephant.

    • bigneil(newercomp)
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:19 am | Permalink

      Spend spend spend is VERY easy when it is someone else’s money – and your own is stashed in Panama.

    • a-tracy
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink

      “That is, should the Middle Class and poor work and pay for the Rich’s transport?”

      Good point Mark. The State is a poor purchase organisation.

      The State listen to ‘experts’ that tell them to build spare capacity hospitals and that we need thousands of ventilators then it turns out it is putting people on them that polished people off so they don’t need them after all, nor did the sick elderly get put in the overflow hospitals.

      If the private sector don’t want to invest in this project then that troubles me.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Mark B. Got it in a nutshell. EV will be very inconvenient for most people and out of their price range. While I might consider a hybrid there is no way I want a full EV car. The government must think about this again.

    • Hope
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Mark you are correct. There is no need for electric cars, a partial implementation in Cities where it could benefit a reduction in peak oil demand.

      After all these politicos only think London! They are not interested in the views from the rest of the country. Tunnel clueless Westminster group think.

      Some blame has to rest with those stupid enough to vote Fake Tory. I thought Mayhab would have realisation for everyone to come to their sense and enough to stomach for a lifetime.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      The post makes some valid points.

      As I say, electric vehicles will have to be re-thought, to enable the changing of a substantial battery module for a ready-charged one.

      This will require application, since it would account for a large part of the vehicle’s weight, but since we had people playing golf on the Moon in 1968, it should be attainable.

      Fetishists might not like the look of the vehicles, but they will just have to grow up, as the ICE-fixated will anyway.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

        Martin, The only rationale for exchanging batteries at a motorway service station is that it’s faster than a fast charge, and not much more costly. And that you don’t mind your 6 month old battery being swapped out for a manky 6 year old pile. That is pretty unlikely.

        If battery electric cars made sense, there would be no need for coercion. On top of all that the government is simply not building the fuel infrastructure required (approx doubling generating, Grid, and street cabling capacity).

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:57 am | Permalink

          Why, forcedly, need you buy any battery in the first place?

          The whole system would be different.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

            Your idea is to swop batteries not purchase I thought.
            Mind you, EV car batteries become less and less efficient at holding a charge like phone batteries for example.
            So purchasing new batteries after X years will become commonplace.

          • NickC
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

            You think 480kg batteries are hanging on trees for free? A sort of Magic Battery Tree with unicorns grazing nearby?

            Even if that were true the battery exchange would still have to be faster than a fast charge; otherwise customers will choose to re-charge.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

        The man on the moon did not have to be financially viable.

      • miami.mode
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

        Your date of golf on the Moon is as accurate of many of your other facts in various posts.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:59 am | Permalink

          What’s a couple of years on the point?

          It’s good to keep you on your toes though.

      • Anonymous
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        I drive a Suzuki Alto.

        I have no fetish about it, believe me – but it is zero tax and so frugal on fuel I forget how to fill it up sometimes.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

        Have a think about this idea Martin.
        The battery on your phone or in your torch or in your lap top computer is not what an electric vehicle is like.
        The batteries weigh half a ton and are mounted low down in the chassis and are covered over to stop heat sink and reduce danger of fire.
        They are connected to lots of big thick cables which run to the management systems and drive motors of the car.of the car.
        You would need hours to extract a battery pack and a fork lift truck to do it.
        Say my battery pack is 4 years old and yours is one year old.
        Think that one through.
        You happy to leave your £10,000 value battery pack at Watford Gap service station and get given my battery pack?

        I’ve spent decades in manufacturing and your idea is useful in one respect.
        It makes anyone who knows anything about how modern complex vehicles ( and especially modern complex electric vehicles) are manufactured burst into laughter.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

          Read my post again, Ed.

          I know all that.

          It has no bearing.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

            It does if you are an automotive company trying to manufacture your idea.
            Have a look how modern cars are designed and manufactured.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      Not only is buying foreign energy expensive, it is also dangerous. We saw what happened when the chips were down over PPE – goods destined for the NHS was commandeered by our lovely friends in France and that is a relatively small thing which was soon put right. They would think nothing of cutting off electricity if it was in their interest and Germany is playing a dangerous game by relying on Russia for 60 percent of its gas. Something so strategic must be produced here regardless of trying to save a penny (which always costs a pound to correct). Governments since Tony Blair have been derelict in their duty to provide, when we knew 30 years ago that our old nuclear and coal power stations were to be retired.

      • Ian Wragg
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

        The nuclear reactors in France are old and becoming unreliable. On several occasions over the last couple of years they have been Importing power from us.
        It makes no sense to rely on 15% of our power requirements from abroad.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

          Wonder who is going to pay for the decommissioning of all those French nuclear reactors?

          • hefner
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

            There is a market thought to be worth in excess of €500m/year for such a decommissioning over the next 20 years.
            But obviously you are not likely to know that.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

            hefner

            France had set aside €23 billion costs to decommissioning its 58 reactors in 2017. The final bill was estimated to be €54 billion.

            In 2020 they are reassessing the probable true cost which is going to be significantly higher (Source: Energy Institute, University College London – Nuclear Consulting Group article – EDF)

            We are licking our lips as to the profit to be made?

    • Christine
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:36 am | Permalink

      This is what the rich want. They want to price other motorists off the road. Things like the congestion charge, expensive electric cars and dearer air travel don’t impact them. Time is money and if they can make their travel faster and easier by removing the plebs from the air and roads then they will promote it using our health as the reason for the necessary policy changes. Don’t you know it’s for our own good.

    • Will in Hampshire
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:00 am | Permalink

      He’s talking about a European project, not one in this country.

      • Mark B
        Posted July 25, 2020 at 5:11 am | Permalink

        Correct. But are mt points any less valid ?

    • Peter
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      Meanwhile there are more pressing issues. Frost has just announced the EU will fail to meet the July target date.

      Obviously, the sensible thing to do is abandon any further talks and go straight to WTO terms. It seems we are not going to do that though. We are are going to let it drag on until September.

      It seems to me that when it comes to the showdown the UK is not prepared to walk away.

      That means a fudge. We did not give this government an 80 seat majority to do that.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

        Peter, You are right – we did not give this government an 80 seat majority to fudge Leave at the last minute.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

        All business needs is a little more uncertainty. I mean it’s not that the wealth generators are ‘key’ workers or anything…. else they would have had a pay rise and been on full pay during lockdown.

      • Andy
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

        I kinda hope the UK does walk away. Just so I can laugh at you all when you suffer the consequences.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

          you pretend to laugh on here almost every day, however it thinly disguises your animosity because you didn’t get your own way! Pram . Toys. Throw!

        • NickC
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

          You’ll have to laugh at all the other 165 countries in the world then, Andy, Unless you know why we can’t be independent of the EU, and they can. But so far you’ve failed to say why.

      • Anonymous
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

        +1 – exactly what I’m thinking.

        “If there’s no deal by this date we’ll walk away.” date passes “If there’s notdeal by this date we’ll walk away” date passes “If there’s no deal by this date…”

        Quite clearly we’re not walking away then.

  2. Peter Wood
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:24 am | Permalink

    Do you remember when railways had water bowsers along the line at regular intervals to refill our magnificent steam locos.

    We don’t need them now, do we….

    • IanT
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      No, we’ve replaced them with diesel tanks…

    • DennisA
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

      No, we changed to diesel and there are no diesel bowsers on route.

    • Fred H
      Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      the real imaginative inventions were the water troughs between railway tracks. A carefully designed scoop could be lowered to drive water up from the narrow trough into a tank. The driver was informed of the best speed to use.

  3. Mick
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:26 am | Permalink

    Let’s have a transport system in every town and village like the big sities have and people won’t need there cars so much, off topic https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1313149/Boris-johnson-scotland-visit-news-nicola-sturgeon-union-tour-scottish-independence-snp
    I see Mr Johnson is going on a trip to Scotland, he wants to tell sturgeon she can have her Independence referendum then hopefully they win so we can cut them adrift and save the English tax payers billions we give them each year, also put up border checkpoints across the east to west of England

    • Adam
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

      People travelling in individual cars, all headed for the same long-distant destination, congest and waste.

      Concept: Restrict cars to within owner county borders. Provide trains for long distance destinations with containers for boot content. Enable electric car transport hire for visitors.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

        Great for people who live a couple of yards from a county border.

        • Adam
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:11 am | Permalink

          As now, people in awkward situations adapt. A family owning two cars could keep one in the other county, just two yards away, or hire one there.

          Concepts need scrutiny to be worth developing. Mine is still raw. Perhaps a border-circulating bus service might develop, serving two counties, with car parks and hire points for both.

    • DavidJ
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:54 am | Permalink

      It is simply wrong to break up the United Kingdom. Thanks to Blair we have to put up with the daily whinging of Sturgeon. It is bad enough having a remaining EU land border in Ireland; why would we want another?
      Far better we reverse the devolution which might well have been illegal as was our entry into the EU.
      Should full devolution go ahead then we need a decent physical border at their cost.

      • Sea Warrior
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

        Yes it is wrong, for a number of reasons, of which the most important is that, if the SNP won Indy Ref 2, millions of loyal Brits would suddenly find themselves living in another country. That’s enough of a reason for the government to tell Sturgeon that she got her referendum in 2014, she lost it and she won’t be getting another one. Just say ‘No!’

        • dixie
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

          I agree but this is not how politicians nor extreme capitalists nor socialists think, they have no concept of responsibility towards our own people. Otherwise we would see them defending our borders and interests vigorously, defending our common law, the rule of law and our traditions.

          Instead minorities have far more rights and attention than the majority to the extent that the largest country in the union is ignored.

          The SNP are only interested in themselves and what power they can wield, they have no interest in the welfare of the citizen of Scotland or the rest of the union. But the UK government should be concerned.

  4. jerry
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:44 am | Permalink

    For two days running our host has talked about problems within the EU, I thought the UK had left, and we will be leave the WA at the end of the year…

    Today the issue is EV charging, couched as a EU problem, but the UK govt is also failing to either move forward with EVs or backtrack. If our host is leading up to wanting the move to EVs cancelled here in the UK then good, I just wish he would cut to the chase!

    But back to the question posed in the last paragraph. I take it we are talking about public road on-street charging infrastructure, if so might I ask, who provides street lighting, who pays for street lighting, what choice do we as the customer/consumer have. For that matter who pays for the roads themselves, there being very few toll roads here in the UK.

    I have suggested in the past how recharging payment can be made, using smart card/meter technoligy, assuming govt actually bothers to do their job of setting standards and regulations.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

      I won’t join the rush to all-electric vehicles – to hybrids probably though.

      The technology is not settled, and is a long way from its destination, both in performance and in value-for-money.

      I didn’t get my own computer until they were a reasonable price, size, and performance, and I don’t regret that.

      If governments fall over themselves to accommodate EVs as they are, then progress will be adversely affected too, I think.

      • jerry
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 5:39 am | Permalink

        @MiC; “I won’t join the rush to all-electric vehicles – to hybrids probably though.”

        But the ‘green blob’ you subscribe to will not allow you to choose a hybrid, the IC engine is to be banned, hybrids go at the same time, it will be EV, bicycle or Shanks’ pony – unless you do happen to own a field, and cart of course!

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:03 am | Permalink

          With a majority, a ruling party can do what they like, Jerry.

          I don’t subscribe to any “blob”.

          • jerry
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 10:21 am | Permalink

            @MiC; Oh the irony! You mean like the majority that voted to leave the EU?…

            As for the green blob, well if you don’t subscribe to their every word you sure as hell follow them blindly, why ever bother with a hybrid if you don’t? Buy a 6.5l US made luxury SUV gas-guzzler for the same price, and join the rest of us wanting UK fuel taxes to be cut! 🙂

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

            A majority in Parliament.

            No.

          • jerry
            Posted July 25, 2020 at 5:19 am | Permalink

            @MiC; Thank you for confirming you do not believe in the Ballot Box…

            Parliament is, or should be, subservient to the ballot box.

    • graham1946
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      Doesn’t matter if it is EU or not, it is a subject that needs discussing and ideas exchanged, otherwise it will be the usual govt. think tanks that come up with the most ludicrous and expensive systems possible without consulting anyone who knows anything. Our govt. doesn’t seem even to have a plan of any sort either for energy production or distribution, it would rather fanny about with PC stuff.

      • jerry
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

        @graham1946; I totally agree, hence my bemusement as to why our host keeps having to bring the EU into such issues – of course he might know something us plebs don’t, that we will not be leaving with no deal and the deal signed will tie us to the apron strings of the EU for years to come – or he simply doesn’t want to criticise his own party and leadership.

  5. DOMINIC
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:45 am | Permalink

    This isn’t about electric vehicles, their green credentials or the promotion of them. The fundamental objective isn’t environmental but political. It is the slow and piecemeal erosion of national borders, either legal or imaginary, and the tying-in of EU member states into one huge area to create a mass. The EU also use bridges, tunnels and other modes of connectivity to erode the sense of national borders

    It is cynical. It is deceitful. It is highly political. It is thoroughly vile and if governments and peoples from various EU member States aren’t prepared to confront this most subtle form of German-Franco colonialism then they’ll lose their ability to assert democratic control and accountability over these ‘things’ some call politicians

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Andy
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      The EU uses infrastructure to bring people together.

      This Tory government uses lies to drive people apart.

      I know which approach I prefer.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:43 pm | Permalink

        The EU uses infrastructure to bring people under EU control.

        The Remains use lies to drive people apart.

        I know which approach I prefer.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

        Gosh very profound Andy.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      You should watch and listen to some of the “Playing For Change” recordings.

      Then you would see just how silly is your fixation with borders.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

        Martin, Borders are crucial for both democracy and for a free market. Without national borders neither are possible. As the EU demonstrates.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

          They are your excuses for them, and not your true reasons, as you demonstrate here often, I think.

          • NickC
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

            I may know more than you, Martin, but I can’t read your mind. So, what “excuses”? There are multiple good reasons to advocate nationalism, and no bad. Respecting other nations right to be nations (self determination), and the largest entity where democracy and a free market can exist, are prizes worth fighting for.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      They have already lost the ability to object becaus4 of the Euro noose around their necks. Bernard Connolly, the British accountant who worked for the EU and blew the whistle in 2009 in his book ‘The Rotten Heart of Europe‘ specified how it would be impossible to escape one ever you had Euro debts. If Greece, for instance left, its drachma would sink into oblivion escalating its debt which is already unpayable. That’s why Italy, Greece etc, although starving, will cling on. Unless of course they just decide to break free and go bankrupt, wiping out all Euro debt, and launch a new, fresh currency. Germany after the war when we ditched the Reichsmark For them and launched the Dmark is the pattern to follow. After all these southern countries have suffered the effects of defeat although they have not officially been at war.

    • glen cullen
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

      correct – and all these great & grandiose ideas have been made behind closed doors

  6. Tabulazero
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    In short, the EU is helping the transition toward EV in order to help the German, French and Italian car industry.

    Meanwhile, what does the UK government offer to help the British car industry ?

    No deal Brexit with its red tape, delays at the border and higher tariffs.

    One may wonder if the UK could not take a quick glimpse as to what was announced on the continent and come up with its own plan ? It could even be a better plan.

    PS: two articles in a row talking about an organization you left and on which you have no means of influence. Shouldn’t you move on ? Brexit is done, right ?

    Reply Touchy on the EU. We are still under all its business laws and sell into its car market.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      “EU is helping the transition toward EV in order to help the German, French and Italian car industry.”

      It was ever thus, from the French being touchy about importing our Japanese branded cars, to the EU paying for Ford and JLR factories in Turkey & Slovakia. VW emissions scandal, penalties in the USA but not in the EU. The EU has been instrumental in protecting German, French and Italian automakers.

      Why are you astonished that we want out of this organisation?

    • Hope
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      We note EU imposing the UK to accept plants which could cause disease for oak trees. Weak pathetic Fake Tory govt accepting decision without so much of a challenge.

      I presume your last two EU blogs have ulterior motives? Is it to try to keep your pathetic govt honest or to highlight hidden ties it is trying to negotiate?

    • DennisA
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

      We could help the British Car industry by abandoning the green nonsense and stop penalising petrol and diesel cars. When the government loses the revenue from them, what taxes will go onto EV’s and the fuel they use?

      • DavidJ
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:58 am | Permalink

        Indeed we could along with stopping the indoctrination of our kids in “Green” and other matters.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      Phew, I wonder why Nissan is basing itself here and Renault moving production from the EU to the U.K.? Maybe they have not read your post?

      • Tabulazero
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:52 am | Permalink

        Why don’t you go an read the interview of the Nissan Executive who also said that this decision of Nissan to stay in Sunderland is conditional on the UK getting a trade deal with the EU.

        Is the UK going to get a trade deal with the EU ?

        No.

        • NickC
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

          Yes, the WTO trade deal.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

            You mean the Narnia + deal, as the EU is likely to end up with as much of a trade deal with the UK as the one it currently has with Narnia.

            Tariffs on unicorns were slashed 95% apparently. A great success

          • NickC
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

            Tabulazero, You think the existence of the WTO is fiction? Actually 98% of global trade, including EU trade, is conducted under WTO rules.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

          Oh dear! You are seriously out of date. That was a very old interview which has since been overturned. Even ultra-Remain Unilever is closing in the EU and basing its Headquarters in the UK.

          PS I am praying for no deal Brexit, it will mean a net payment by the EU to the U.K. of £13 billion pa for access to our market if current trading pattern remains. Karma!

          • glen cullen
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

            bring it on

        • Edward2
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

          Even without a deal cars will be imported and exported.
          Japan only had a deal recently and imported millions of cars before that time.
          The tariff is 10%
          Unless European and UK car manufacturers agree to zero tariffs.
          Nissan have announced a commitment to new models and hundreds of millions in investment since that old comment you quote.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:55 pm | Permalink

            Ashwani Gupta said that less than a month ago. I would not call that an old comment

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

            The thought that he was fishing for a nice big government grant doesn’t even cross your mind.

          • dixie
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

            @Tz – in 2018 the UK accounted for 35% of Nissan sales in Europe.

            What do you think will happen to Nissan, or any business, that is seen to threaten, abandon or punish it’s customers?

          • dixie
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

            — in March 2018 the UK accounted for 35% of Nissan sales in Europe.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:03 pm | Permalink

      Reply to Reply:

      Touchy ? No. Pleased that some form of consensus was reached in the end and that the whole edifice did not explode as you must surely have hoped for.

      I am just pointing out your weird obsession with a body you are meant to have left behind in January.

      The truth is that the EU and the UK are probably locked in constant negotiations for the next decade.

      The truth is that the UK has lost a lot of influence on the continent and its ability to shape things there.

      The truth is that the UK has yet to formulate a policy regarding Europe that simply goes beyond “WE WANT A TRADE DEAL” !.

      I think it would be better that you told the truth to your followers, lest they find it surprising that you still bang on about the EU by the year 2025.

      Reply I will continue to write about EU, US and China politics and economy as they matter in the world. Sometimes I will find good things, sometimes bad things in what the EU or US do. Sometimes we might want to copy or join in, other times we will be glad we can stay out of whatever they are doing. That’s the big win from being independent. You live in a detached house which you pay for and maintain yourself, but you may well have good relations with the neighbours.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

        Tabulazero, The truth is the UK never had much, if any, influence on the EU. “You are taking the place of the UK around the table” whined Macron recently about Rutte and the Netherlands, thereby confirming the UK’s views were never really accepted at the top table.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

        Reply to Reply to Reply:

        Actually, that is what worries me the most: the absolute lack of thinking inside the Conservative party as to what the future relationship with what will remain your closest neighbours despite everything could be beyond basic platitudes and clamours for a trade deal.

        The odds are not insignificant that the UK ends up a bit like Russia or Turkey when it comes to its relationship with the EU:

        on the outside, looking in and disruptive.

        It would be an utter failure in statesmanship on both side but this is not a scenario we should ignore.

      • Andy
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

        What do you find good about the EU Mr Redwood? I can write plenty of good things about the US. But I never see you write anything good about the EU. Humour us. What is good about the EU?

        • Edward2
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

          That is a very tricky question.
          The Common Market was a reasonable idea.
          It is a shame failed lefty national politicians rejected by voters in their home nations found a lucrative home in the EU where they changed the EU into a socialist concept.
          Once the left hated the idea of the Common Market now the idea of a United States of Europe gets them all excited.

        • NickC
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

          Andy, I don’t know what JR will answer, but mine is that there is nothing good about the EU. It is, at root, a corrupt, anti-democratic ideology that traps nations into an empire before they realise what is happening.

    • David Brown
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

      I mentioned before that car manufacturers are moving to all electric production. I note many EU car manufacturers are based in the UK for all electric cars.
      May be its a secret weapon to force Britain to buy more electric from the EU at inflated prices -ok ok a bit of humour into the proceedings

      • NickC
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

        David B, Car manufacturers are only “moving to all electric production” because governments are forcing them to do so. Car traction batteries (and Windmills) are extremely bad for the environment. It’s the same mistake as pushing diesel cars 15 years ago.

  7. David_Kent
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    I see not reason that these charging points should be government supplied, presumably pension plans and life insurers would love to invest in assets like these. Maybe the government is worried they’ll prefer such investments to buying gilts with no return?

  8. agricola
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    It is the wrong system. Automated dead battery drop and charged battery pick up is the way forward. Time cycle five minutes. Eliminate high cost of battery replacement. Standardise battery design and placement within three sizes. Remove vehicle range penalty and charging time. Create home solar systems for top ups for free. Such a system also eliminates the opportunity for our ever active criminal and vandalising element to make their mark. Remember what they did to telephone boxes before mobiles.

    We got it right with milk delivery at one time, why not with vehicle power delivery.

    • davews
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

      At least with current EV vehicles battery change on the go is impossible – huge weight and the batteries are many cells forming most of the base of the car. Such ideas are from those who think it is a similar size battery to what is in your petrol car, it is not.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

        No, the proponents accept that it will be a considerable technical challenge.

        But these challenges have been met many times before, and there is no reason in principle why this one should not be too.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:32 am | Permalink

          Well designing this miracle vehicle to do what you desire, to then meet all thevtype approvals, pass safety tests built at a price customers can afford and then developing the nationwide battery swop stations all over the UK is a little task that should keep you busy.
          Best of luck.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:41 am | Permalink

            In the 1970s electronic engineers believed that a blue LED was not possible, Ed.

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

            A very simple project to develop a different coloured LED bulb compared to an electric vehicle with your idea of cassette batteries instantly removable.

          • NickC
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

            Martin, Possible and sensible are two different things.

    • Mike Stallard
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:24 am | Permalink

      Solar systems are a godsend in Australia.
      Here they just don’t work except when the sun shines during the day in the few sunny summer months..

      • Ian Wragg
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

        Then why are some states having power cuts.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

      Exactly.
      I can’t see how sufficient power will ever be delivered in 5 minutes for 200 miles of travel.
      It is much easier to conceive battery swap stations.

    • Adam
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      Mobiles minimised phone box vandalism, but reward muggers at higher expense of harm and uselessness.

    • Robert McDonald
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:24 am | Permalink

      It is the only way it will work. I am diesel until I find a power supply I don’t have time to watch a movie when using.

    • formula57
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      @ agricola – how would such a battery exchange scheme cope with:

      – different levels of battery degradation arising from different usage (fast charging accelerating reduction in battery life) such that a motorist may swap a cared for, newer battery for a poor quality old one? Granted the next exchange may see an improvement but it may see worse.

      – batteries reaching the end of their useful lives?

      – exchange locations keeping a full range of battery types in adequate quantities to supply all makes of vehicles?

      Would the scheme not call for ownership of all exchange batteries to rest with the exchanger supplier?

      • agricola
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

        Confine by law EV manufacturers to 3 sizes of battery.

        The battery change station becomes responsible for the quality of the batteries supplied by automated robotic change stations. If we can make cars robotically, and we do, we can change batteries robotically. Bit like driving into a car wash.

        Standardise the location and fixing of all batteries and the computerised robotics will look after the process which should take no more than five minutes.

        It would be a bit like buying milk ( electrical battery power), you drink the milk(electricity) and hand the empty bottle back (dead battery), it being the only way to get a bottle of fresh milk. For those who remember milk deliveries or still enjoy the service.

        The supplier would be in his own interests be responsible for the quality and chsrge levels of batteries supplied just as he is with the quality of liquid fuel now.

        A gathering of motor production engineers could have it sorted in no time flat. A modern auto factory carries out far more complex operations producing the vehicle.

        • formula57
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

          I understand. Thank you.

          It would require much intra-industry co-operation amongst the world’s motor manufacturers, clearly.

    • IanT
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      An interesting idea – and one that removes several of the major objections to EVs – recharging and overall battery life. Batteries could also get charged off-peak (e.g. when it’s windy!) 🙂

    • Mark
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      The average milk float round was probably no more than 5 miles. Longer and rural routes were covered by normal vehicles.

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

      Meaning on a long journey you have to time it juuuuust right to drop off a dead battery otherwise you’re wasting residual charge all the time.

      Then there’s battery leakage whilst the car is parked.

  9. Anonymous
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:56 am | Permalink

    It’s insanity.

    We will need many more power stations or to become, effectively, dependent on the EU and the Chinese for what used to be in our petrol tanks. Public transport is going bust because of CV19.

    • Andy
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      We won’t need many more power stations. That is the whole point. Even as the amount that we rely on electrics goes up the amount of electricity we actually use continues to go down. This is because our products – all of them – have got significantly more efficient.

      Moreover, the amount of the electricity the UK generates from renewables also continues to rise. More than half of our electricity is already from low carbon sources, this year we’ll probably reach somewhere between 40-50% generated from renewables like wind and solar. Yes, your lights have not gone out and a significant part of your power is already green.

      The Conservative’s 2019 manifesto – which many of you voted for and which Mr Redwood stood on – committed the government to reach net zero emissions by 2050. So much more investment in renewables will be required here in the next few decades anyway. It’s what you all voted for.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

        Andy, We haven’t reduced electricity consumption in the UK because of a few more “efficient” domestic lightbulbs or toasters, it’s because we have de-industrialised. And it still takes the same electrical energy to boil a pint of water as it did a 100 years ago.

        For all UK road vehicles using battery electric power we will need about 50% – 100% more electrical energy than we produce now (depending on efficiencies). The banning from 2025 of Gas CH and HW from new builds will add yet more demand.

        So current government policies are heading towards a doubling of our electrical energy requirement. Your imaginary surplus is nowhere near enough.

      • Anonymous
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

        I thought I had no choice but to vote Tory. I only did it to keep Corbyn out.

        I agree. I regret voting now.

        A huge economic boost to our country now would be fracking. And I think we should be building reservoirs instead of HS2.

    • Bill B.
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      I agree it’s insane. But let’s keep in mind public transport is bust because of the over-extended lockdown, and government ‘guidance’ against using public transport. Not ‘because of CV19’ as such.

    • glen cullen
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      Insanity is an understatement

  10. Pam
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    What is it with you? Are you totally incapable of shaking off your utter obsession with the EU? We left, get over it

    Reply We are still in the single market and customs union and still under all its business laws. Why are you so anti studying it?

    • Mike Stallard
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:22 am | Permalink

      The crunch comes at the end of this troubled year when heavily in debt, but Europe and UK separate and stand divided by trade barriers. Let us hope that President Trump is re-elected and that we can trade with USA!

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      Pam, I think that it’s to give the more slavish readers of this blog a warm feeling, that they “won” something.

      Once.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

        Better than being a permanent loser – Martin-in-Tiger Bay.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:11 am | Permalink

          If only you knew.

          But I don’t like to crow.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

        Don’t forget the other 17 million who voted to leave the EU and all those who voted to give the Conservatives a huge 80 seat win at the last election with the promise of getting Brexit done.
        And Labour got their worst result since the 1930s

    • Original Chris
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

      Reply to reply: Why are we still in the single market and customs union after all these years and when we are supposed to have left? The blame lies directly at May’s feet with her hugely damaging WA, a recipe for a vassal state, and Boris for perpetuating it, and not ditching it the minute he got into power. The WA is toxic and no self respecting Tory MP supporting democracy should have gone along with this.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

        No self-respecting Tory (or indeed MP) did. So we know who to replace don’t we, and it’s in the selection process that is put right not in the ballot box where we often have Hobsons Choice.

    • Fred H
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:13 am | Permalink

      Pam – you don’t have to read it, nor the contributions – – – its Sir John’s diary. I often don’t agree with bits and lots of contributions. Sometimes my scribbles don’t get included. Get over it, find other MP’s thoughts and subjects for ‘discussion’.

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

      Pam, What is it with you and other Remains? Are you totally incapable of shaking off your utter obsession with controlling what we do with our time? What business is it of yours if we want to discuss the inanities and vindictiveness of the EU?

  11. Ian Wragg
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:02 am | Permalink

    It will be a method of recouping VED. All these people in apartments will have to use government owned points at inflated prices.
    Home chargers will be metered separately.

  12. Lifelogic
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    In addition the all the problems that you rightly highlight above – one of the main problems with charging is what do the driver and passengers do for the several hours it takes to charge? Who on earth wants to spend more than the time it takes have a pee at say a UK service station for example. This while your battery “fuel tank” is filled at a rate of about 2 litres petrol every hour.

    Then you have the problem that your battery fuel tank depreciates at perhaps £14 a day but only holds about £4 of electricity. Furthermore it leaks electric charge just while standing.
    I run an old Volvo V70 and a Golf Cabriolet my (total) running costs for both are about the same as the cost of battery only depreciation on a full size electric car. Not to mention the depreciation and financing costs of an electric car. Can you get find a decent estate car or convertable in electric yet? Let alone ones costing circa £4000 for the pair of them?

    They are also far more flexibile and superior cars with no real range limitations. They can also tow boat, trailers well as needed.

    • jerry
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

      @LL; “Who on earth wants to spend more than the time it takes have a pee at say a UK service station for example.”

      But the grand idea is, you wont want to, you will choose to go by coach, rail, or get a taxi to the nearest airport -if you must, whilst freight forwarding companies will take care of any larger items so they arrive before you – after all isn’t that what the European Commission do when they move between Strasbourg and Brussels (and no doubt Whitehall, once they too start increasingly to decamp to the regions as a part of BoJo’s levelling-up policy)?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

        😂😂you could go by bike and have your limo with the change of gear, red box etc following at a ‘social distance’ – like Cameron!

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      The thing is that the green lobby don’t want us towing cars or doing anything to make life worthwhile.
      They want to constrain our movements and limit our reach — The ‘new normal’ will likely be that we are not allowed outside our village.

      In which case, the useless electric cars will be just the job to make sure we can’t go far.

  13. Gordon
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:11 am | Permalink

    If any government agency has to provide these charging points that means they are uneconomic. If they weren’t then private firms would do it. If they are uneconomic then they are a misallocation of resources, like almost everything government does. Subsidising electric cars and their charging points is stealing money from productive investment because of political bias based on very poor science.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:22 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Cynic
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:32 am | Permalink

      Totally. agree with Gordon’s analysis

    • Sharon Jagger
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:45 am | Permalink

      Gordon

      I was going to say something along the same lines as you.

      It is only government that insists we go to electric cars…no car manufacturer has really pushed for it… and I’m guessing, only then because of the insistence of government.

      Why are the government soooo insistent on electric cars? And it’s nothing to do with ‘green’. Similarly the wind turbines….killing off so much wildlife, and not working half the time- they too are not ‘green’, but still, government are pressing ahead!

    • Andy
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      Governments build roads. Are they uneconomic?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

        They don’t turn a profit!

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

        Actually, Andy, private businesses build roads. The government only pays for them – using taxpayer’s money.

    • turboterrier
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

      Gordon

      Totally agree with you. Poor science has got us into a hell of a mess with Cobid 19. As per normal the government will learn nothing from it. The list is endless, start with turbines and solar transmission problems and finish with new housing and no proper infrastructure. Very few politicians have any idea of practical science and general common sense problems raised by their decisions and actions. Those with knowledge and experience are condemned to the back benches and totally ignored.

    • Original Chris
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

      Seconded, Gordon.

    • Mockbeggar
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      Yes, and where’s the electricity coming from? How much will it cost when the govt. has to replace the vast amount it receives in fuel tax and VAT? We’re becoming more and more dependent on foreign made electricity generated mostly from coal. Even the Russians are proposing another undersea cable.

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:29 am | Permalink

      You’ve just touched on why I object to the barking mad idea of building a bridge between Scotland and Northern Ireland.
      Well, Sir John, can you get the bridge killed off for us?

    • Iain Gill
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:55 am | Permalink

      Gordon, correct.

  14. Mike Stallard
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    First of all, let us have a real – not a sham – discussion about Global Warming. How far is it an act of God (He changes the climate from time to time as anyone who has done the simplest geology will know) and how far is it a judgement on our greedy throwaway society over the earth? Nobody has even discussed this openly and freely to my knowledge. And people who try are shut down fast.

    Second, are electric cars really better than petrol ones? They are terribly expensive, depend on a lot of slave labour (battery) and are awkward to recharge. Who, by the way, is going to provide all that extra electricity and how – Wind? Are you serious?

    We need to start proper discussion about this very serious subject and not let the arrogant assumption that the subject is fixed be nodded through.

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

      Mike Stallard, Indeed, an open debate without ridiculous attempts to shut down so-called “deniers” would enable much better decisions to be taken. But best of all, just leave it up to people to decide for themselves. Then Andy can buy his £90k Tesla and I can buy my second hand £3k Ford Focus. Then we’re all happy. Well, except Andy who gets his rocks off by controlling thickos like us. Or maybe he just likes whining.

      • Fred H
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

        rattle the cage and see how many respond!

  15. Ian @Barkham
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    For the most part these pronouncements are just virtual signaling, showboating to pander to those with the power.

    It is morally wrong that those that can afford these vehicles in the first place are subsidized by the taxpayer at purchase, then the fuel for them is in most situation also subsidized, so to then the ask that the refueling infrastructure also gets paid out of taxpayer subsidies. For the most part these subsidies are funded by those that cant afford to even contemplate buying a new car.

    This is the EU though, in practice this is a backdoor way of subsidizing the Auto Industry to give an unreasonable advantage on the World Stage.

    Ask your self how good for the environment is more very polluting production that is followed in equal part by a similar polluting distribution.

  16. SM
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    I have seen a huge amount of scientific and technological advances in my lifetime, from the life-saving introduction of antibiotics and chemotherapy to a communication device I hold in my hand that makes the Starship Enterprise look a tad old-fashioned, but…

    I still cannot see how charging for a multitude of electric vehicles is going to work in reality. How are issues of safety and theft/vandalism going to be addressed? What if your vehicle must be charged in the open, when parked (if possible) outside your house, or on the street? How are old batteries going to be safely disposed of? How many European countries, especially the Northern ones, will be able to provide sufficient solar, let alone wind, energy to cope with demand?

    • turboterrier
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

      SM

      Well done, keep banging on about the disposal of the batteries. One day the ministers responsible will come up with a believable option. Don’t hold your breath.

      If the CCC and the Government are really dedicated to this 0% target will somebody please explain how all our fighting services are going to be able to operate on batteries and be effective? We all know the answer to that one.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

      Possibly we ordinaries with our little, little worries are not destined to join in this new jamboree?
      Sure, we were useful for mining, farming, building etc. Like bees making honey for the beekeeper.
      Very usefully we built up savings, land and property which have been mostly removed from us with various scams.
      This is the final push. The biggest heist.
      Who will pay? We will..with our jobs, our cars, our houses, our savings and our FREEDOM.
      “To Serve Man”by Damon Knight is a brilliant allegory for present times.

  17. zorro
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    How much electricity will be required compared to now and where is it coming from?

    Also, ho off the press, helpful advice from a Wokingham Borough Council email to residents with a nice picture of a man wearing a mask inside his own house while reading his laptop with his dog with the following advice….

    “Our use of face coverings is about to substantially increase from 24 July, inside shops. This means the risk of being infected by them also increases if we don’t safely store/ wash them if they’re reusable, or dispose of them if they’re paper one-use ones.”

    Good that we’re bringing more into the equation then. It really begs the question. … Also JR can we please have some action to try and keep on top of the littering of our borough of plastic gloves and single-use face masks strewn on the street or open bins. According to the prevailing logic, are these not a biohazard, and are we not introducing more risk of infection?

    zorro

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

      As the years go on there is a real feeling that Wokingham Council has fully embraced the ‘Woke’ part of its name. No logic, no sensibility – just lets see how nutty we can be with other peoples money

      • zorro
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

        I mean wearing a mask in his own home….is nothing sacred?

        zorro

  18. Ian @Barkham
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    There maybe a ‘MeToo’ moment in the UK that some might see a need to follow, to be on the band wagon. But the taxpayer paying for what after all is the wealthy section of society to import and support foreign manufacturer that don’t contribute to the UK Exchequer would seem madness.

    We the UK don’t as yet bother with making battery powered vehicles, hydrogen yes but not battery in any substantive way. Yes I am aware of the Indian Conglomerate that has a car made by Magna Steyr in Austria and badged as a Jaguar i-Pace.

    If there is a strategic structural reason to support the UK’s manufacturing, its workers and actual UK Companies (Not foreign companies) there maybe a case. But it is not one of green credentials, its one of security. It shouldn’t be one helping the wealthy at the expense of the poor.

    Do a proper update, not as now a fudge HS2/Smart Motorways, to the UK’s transport infrastructure, that is then a benefit of all. We just cant keep on renaming 100 year old tech trains High Speed when they are anything but, or calling dangerous roads Smart.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      I notice our Wokingham Council is now running around in fully electric BMW i3’s

      While in London the opt for hydrogen

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        Ian

        As from today Wokingham Town Council have made all of the roads in the town centre 20mph including Broad Street and Shute end (even at night), so the residents can now expect air quality to suffer as we all travel round the Town in a lower gear than normal.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

          why don’t they just ban cars inthe town centre and done with it? Who would want to walk down Shute End at night anyway? Trainspotters? A level crossing experience?

  19. Adam
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    Car battery weight is a key dynamic. The UK is described as being world-leading in advanced battery technology.
    If a car can reach its charge without carrying the full weight of it on its back, it’s fitter for further.
    Petrol is popular, yet even the weight of the full fuel tank absorbs more power than running on near-empty.

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

      Adam, Where on earth did you dig up the notion that the UK was a world leader in vehicle traction battery technology? And the weight of a full tank of petrol in a Fiesta is only about 30kg (c3% of the weight; 2019, 1.1L model) – so it makes hardly any difference, certainly compared with a traction battery of between 200kg – 480kg.

      • Adam
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

        The world-leading battery technology wording was a radio headline, as their newsreader described, Nick.

        I refer to the weight of the power source. Existing car batteries hardly pull theirs, and petrol is lighter. Any weight carried saps power. Solar panels don’t carry the weight of sun power, but are not yet efficient enough.

        • NickC
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

          Adam, Don’t believe everything you hear on the radio. Especially if it’s the BBC. Please provide evidence of the world leading battery manufacturer based in the UK and owned by British people (shareholders, or privately) that you think exists.

          • Adam
            Posted July 25, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

            No belief applied.
            The 4 sentences were solely statements of fact.

  20. dixie
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    In the UK I think the government should focus on build out and provision of a smart grid and associated market to meet our evolving energy needs. The goal should be to maximise sustainable energy security at viable costs. My preference would be for for an “internet” of local smart grids and distributed supply, including SMRs

    The government should leave provision of specific services such as vehicle charging and associated V2G which would use the smart grid to the commercial sector.

  21. Beecee
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

    Maybe a stupid idea but is it feasible to put solar panels on the roof of cars? Recharge as you go and park?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      Think a few car manufacturers have done it? Hyundai and Toyota maybe?
      Not very efficient though. Roof space not very big and not always angled at sun.
      You need a whole field of imported labour installed panels to burn a slice of toast!

  22. Nigl
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

    A million. Politicians still think big numbers fool and impress the public. 100 000 tests and trace! They don’t.

    Incidentally how is the guy, employed with no experience in IT to run a key IT department still in a job when, without said experience he ignored all the experts who foretold what would happen allegedly for his own personal glory and, oh just one small thing.

    The programme was illegal re data protection because no one thought about it. And another point. The civil servant heading PHE admitted what he knew about medicine you could write on a fag packet.

    Can I have a job heading up the OneWeb ex bankrupt satellite system. I know nothing about satellites etc but apparently that won’t be a problem.

  23. Nigl
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Off topic but current. I see HMG in its desire to shovel out overseas aid has been sending some to, guess where, we are told the most dangerous country, China!

    Ok to trash private companies but if it meets HMGs virtue signalling needs, no problem.

    • Nigl
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

      To my own message. Good to see Raab has cut it today. Shame he had to wait until exposed in press.

      • Otto
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

        Cut it from £71m to what level?

      • Sea Warrior
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

        I look forward to seeing some more exposure about how No 10 wasted half a billion on OneWorld.

        • hefner
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

          SW, I agree. What is interesting is that OneWeb, a private company originally created as WorldVu in 2012, had originally planned to launch 649 satellites. On 27 March 2020 when it filed for bankruptcy only 74 had ever been launched.
          It will be interesting to see how long it will take to get the full constellation once the $500m from the UK Government and the same amount from Bharti Global of India are ‘put to good use’. As importantly it will be to see whether on top of broadband connectivity/telephony this whole effort will provide anything sensible in terms of (GPS/Galileo/Glonass/Beidou-type) localisation.

  24. Ian @Barkham
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    off topic – some clarity required

    Tomorrow what was proposed as ‘face coverings’ for all, has now been picked up in the Main Stream Media as Face Masks and in some of them they even refer to the masks as PPE. So what is it a covering or a full mask?

    Therefore if face masks, Surgical or KN95?

    In the desperate need to create a story I would ‘guess’ the MsM is out to cloud the issue.

    On a personal level coverings/masks means I just wont engage in activating the economy. There use by definition means being out and about is not safe for anyone.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

      +1 I will shop in Sainsbury’s because they refuse to use masks or require their customers to use masks.

    • beresford
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      My local chippie reopened with a perspex screen across the counter and a limit of two customers on the premises at a time, and yet due to the stupid ‘one-size-fits-all’ policy we will now be expected to wear face masks as well. Yet if he added a table and I sat down there to eat I wouldn’t have to wear a mask. If they are so keen on masks in enclosed spaces, why aren’t they wearing them in the HoC?

      ‘Pwime Minishter’.
      ‘Mishter Shpeaker, the gentleman opposite……’ (muffled jeering).

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

        They don’t need to wear masks in the House of Commons – we already know most are gangsters.

  25. George Brooks.
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:18 am | Permalink

    This whole electric car promotion is little more than misplaced PR stunt by supposedly intelligent people pandering to the Greens. These vehicles are no more than short range local run-abouts for those people who are able to get their car off the road next to their accommodation over night so it can be charged up. For those who can’t get their car parked in the same place every night, do they have to run a cable along the pavement or knock on a strangers door and ask for connection to their supply!!!!

    An accident blocks a major road, and this happens somewhere just about every day, on cold winter night and there is no way round until the debris is cleared. In an electric car you will have the choice of either freezing in the dark to conserve your battery or keep warm and run it flat and have to be towed off to a charging point for another delay of several hours.

    What happens to the 20 ton refrigerated tuck that gets caught up in jam and runs out of power? A costly tow, food destroyed, and out action while the container is cleaned.

    The more one thinks about it, the more stupid it becomes and up to last December we had politicians actively destroying the motor industry with their policies. For heaven’s sake get real.

  26. Bryan Harris
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    You have very adequately shown how and why the EU fail with so many of their vanity projects — Apart from not being thought through, they are created to show they are ‘doing something’, but lack follow through.

    Could there be another reason for so few charging points – They don’t want people to travel unless it is an approved journey — they’d much prefer people stayed in their little village, as per the climate change agenda.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

      Who are “they”?

      • hefner
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        The Marxists under his bed, obviously.

        • Edward2
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

          They are on the streets in full view.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

          Sadly the Reds are no longer under the bed. They are in the House of Commons – Corbyn et al.

          • Fred H
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

            its the ‘et al’ that really worries me.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

            You are very easily worried, Fred, like most Leave voters, it seems to me.

  27. Bryan Harris
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    JR – has there been a change to this site?

    My posts now do not appear for me until approved, and it fails to retain my details…?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

      That happened to me for ages.
      Just keep on putting in your e mail and username.
      Seems to right itself ok eventually.

  28. bigneil(newercomp)
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:30 am | Permalink

    Nobody seems to have thought of all the road works chaos as the roads are dug up to install the 1 million charger points. And what about all the other millions of charger points that will be needed? How long to install all those them? Or is the masterplan to ONLY install 1 million – for the well off – and the rest can effectively be banned from the road as they won’t be able to get access to a charger point?

    • Anonymous
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

      There will be much vandalism of cars on chargers then. The economically hobbled general public will be rightfully resentful.

  29. ChrisS
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    As I have said repeatedly here, the battery-electric car is a cul de sac enforced on us by grandstanding politicians responding to predominantly anti-capitalist green activists. In an email correspondence, a senior Motor industry engineer told me that advances in battery technology will not produce the rapid charging and range we need to rival the Internal Combustion engine for more at least 15 years. And in that he was being optimistic!

    The point about charging stations is well made. The impossibility of creating enough charging facilities is only one part of the problem. How do the Greens leading this modern day charge of the light brigade plan to generate the electricity ?

    Only Nuclear offers the amount of clean, reliable energy needed, particularly through the winter, yet, in a panic, Merkel has closed all Germany’s Nuclear stations and foolishly increased the use of Russian gas and dirty Lignite coal !

    The UK is struggling to get even a fraction of our current Nuclear generation replaced going forward, while France, the only country in the World with the majority of its power produced by a chain of 58 Nuclear Stations, has been hesitant in authorising a replacement design that was supposed to be in place this year.

    The real future has to be Hydrogen Fuel Cells which have none of the charging or range issues endemic with batteries. The Oil Companies, faced with the total loss of their business, will eventually decide that they should finance the charging infrastructure using their existing forecourts to keep themselves in business. Modern methods of Hydrogen production use a lot less electricity which can be generated by a combination of wind, solar and Nuclear.

    The politicians headlong rush to do away with the modern, clean Internal Combustion engine, common sense has flown out of the window.

  30. John E
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    How about telling us what you think should be done here? You are a Westminster MP. We left the EU. Let them sort their own policies.
    You own the mess you have created here.

    Reply Try Reading this blog. I regularly set out a future for the UK

    • hefner
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply: so what are your thoughts on the ISC report, if you are entitled to have any?

  31. Alan Jutson
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Its all madness, electric as the sole power source is a mistake certainly at the moment with battery range.

    The only sensible but very expensive way to use electric is if you had cables under every road which vehicles could use as a direct power or induction source for direct drive, or perhaps as a charging source for some battery power at the same time (topping up charging as you drive) but then the utilities would come along and destroy the cables every time they dug a hole

    • anon
      Posted July 25, 2020 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

      Charging while driving would only need to be done on trunk/motorway in say 40 miles/40 min chunks. Special charging lane could be added on new motorway entrance/exits. Or chargers co-located next to Motorway and redundant powerstations and or solar farms with battery arrays.

      Also destination charging would seem to be the answer until the ever increasing KWH per KG of battery makes it mostly redundant. 300-400 miles would suit most needs.

      Put them near Supermarkets,Shopping Centres, Sports Venues etc.

      Refrigerated trucks – run them on liquid nitrogen, power and cooling.

      Gov should stick to setting common network standard to enable full utilisation of any network. Auction off the rights for consent at motorway stopovers etc

  32. formula57
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    The private sector has shown it can provide charging stations so why should government enter the market directly?

    If a more comprehensive network is wished for sooner than market forces will provide, then it may be more efficient and easier for government to offer tax breaks and perhaps assistance though planning consents than to replicate commercial ventures itself.

    O/T I am bemused that some commenters object to you writing about the Evil Empire on the grounds we have left. Does it betray their “Little Remoaner” mentality where they assume Brexit meant we retreat within our borders and ignore all that is beyond? You write about the USA too which we left in 1783 but they have not yet latched on to extending their purile objections to that of course.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

      😂😂the USA left us! We remain best of friends and hope for a free trade deal if Boris can get his act together. Pity the EU is so small minded – they will never forgive us for destroying their dream 3 times in just over a century!

  33. BJC
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    I presume there’s no plan in place to safely dispose of the mountain of dead batteries we’ll have in 10-20 years time. Is this going to be another transfer of the true costs of production from manufacturer to the taxpayer and planet?

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

      Will they last that long?

    • anon
      Posted July 25, 2020 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

      Will be a mostly a closed reuse/recycle loop like lead acid batteries.

  34. Andy
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    Mr Johnson is going to Scotland to highlight how his response to Coronavirus is a case for the union.

    Brave.

    Travel somewhere where you are hated and point to a proven example of your staggering incompetence which has left thousands dead and tens of thousands jobless, and try to use it as proof that hating you is wrong.

    • Richard1
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

      an absurd post but keep them up, people need to see them so they don’t vote for the likes of you.

      People have been dying all over the world due to the Wuhan Virus – even in the EU. And people have been and will be losing their jobs as a result of it.

      It is also now clear the death rates have not been measured comparably and are likely to turn out very similar for similar countries / situations. But do your best.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

      He just need to step out of Downing Street to achieve that – no need to travel all the way to Scotland!

  35. villaking
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    Sir John, you continue to post about an organisation we left months ago. Are you missing it already?

    Reply We are still under their laws and sending them money

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      I suppose that if you pretend that the UK is still in the European Union, and if your identity is entirely contained by the former project to leave that, and if you also state what a bad thing it is, then you can claim to be more relevant than in truth you might be.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

        Martin, The EU still controls the UK. We are subject to all the EU rules and policies until the WA expires. That is not Leave. Assuming we’re not tied back into the EU somehow – unfortunately possible even now – the EU will still be around as a nasty neighbour. So yes, we will still try to fathom out why the EU is so hostile, and what it will do next.

      • Edward2
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        We actually leave on 31st December 2020.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:17 am | Permalink

          Ah. So Farage and his wastes-of-space are still able to insult our friends in the Parliament are they?

          And the UK can veto anything that requires unanimity among the nations?

          We’ve left, sunbeam!

          • Edward2
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:34 am | Permalink

            Sunbeam.
            We leave on 31st December.

          • Fred H
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

            free and truthful speech Martin – -where better than in a Parliament?

          • NickC
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

            Martin, We are still subject to EU laws, courts, taxes, and policies! Duh . . .

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

            The UK will be *subject* to far more outside the European Union than it ever was as a member.

            Just wait and see.

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

      Villaking, Why shouldn’t JR continue to discuss the EU? Perhaps you can say why so many Remains on here want to stop us discussing the EU.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

        The question is why the BBC does not report on the EU. All that rioting in France, and 1500 Churches burned including Notre Dame and Nantes…. you would think it newsworthy.

        • Fred H
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

          But Nicola said she would meet Boris if he wanted. Very states(wo)manlike. Must be a major news story.

  36. BOF
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Your last paragraph Sir John. N0, Government should not be supplying these facilities.

    This is simply more tax payer subsidised money filling the pockets of the already heavily taxpayer subsidised ‘green’ energy scam to fuel the taxpayer subsidised vehicles.

    The rent seekers will be happy.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

      N0, Government should not be supplying these facilities.

      Of course it should! How else can it be done? We already have the farce of different cars needing different types of charger connectors. There has to be a standard and it has to be imposed by government. Mind you, I don’t have any faith in this government to do anything sensible. Maybe they could set up a well rewarded QUANGO to do it.

      Imagine if we had left the development of the national grid to lots of different companies. How many more pylons would there be if we had 10 national grids! Get a grip. This is a natural thing for government to be involved in – if they were capable. Maybe Chris Grayling could be put in charge (as it were).

      • glen cullen
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

        It doesn’t have to be standard nor do you need government to impose standards

        Remember VHS vs. Betamax….let the consumer and the market decide

        • Mike Wilson
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 12:19 am | Permalink

          Yeah. I was going to use the private development of VHS and Betamax as the perfect example of how NOT to do it. It is allegedly urgent that we stop burning carbon in car engines. Let’s waste years and billions having duplicated charging points all over the place until one or more charging systems become redundant. Brilliant idea.

          • glen cullen
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

            I don’t care how many duplicate companies make charging point….so long as as they’re privately funded and not by the tax-payer

      • Ian @Barkham
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

        Sorry you couldn’t be more wrong in your assumptions. Setting out standards is one thing, but squandering hard earned taxpayer money on those that already have the money just for a sound-bite. Particularly as for now it appears to be a dead technology, a stop gap with at best just 10year left in it.

      • NickC
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

        Mike W, The vast majority of national and international product standards were devised outside government.

        • Mike Wilson
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:17 am | Permalink

          The standards for road design? Government. Railway design? Look how well that went with different gauges used by different private companies. Air traffic control? Let’s let each airline do their own. After all, the market knows best. Mobile phones? Look how well that has worked with different companies all wanting to put their own masts up – until government stepped in and forced them to share masts. And broadband? Maybe 10 companies should have been allowed to dig up every road in the country to lay their own fibre. But, no, you must be right. Let each car manufacturer develop their own battery/ charging technology and dig up the roads 10 times to install their own chargers. Brilliant. Let the market decide!

          • NickC
            Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

            Mike W, Perchance you protest too much. It does not alter the fact that the vast majority of national and international product standards were devised outside government, via industry, academia and consumers. Have a look at the ISO website.

  37. DennisA
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Batteries deteriorate more quickly with fast charging so there will be more battery replacements required. Where will this electricity come from? From hydrocarbons in some form, so why not use the primary source to fuel our vehicles, rather than the massive costs associated with using that primary source to power a secondary source, with all the lost energy that goes with the process?

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:18 am | Permalink

      Or use wind, solar and nuclear.

      • NickC
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

        Mike W, Either back-up or storage is needed for Wind and Solar. Nuclear is base load only.

        • anon
          Posted July 25, 2020 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

          Nuclear requires backup as well and being large represent a significant point of failure. Where as many solar panels/parks windfarms do not.
          This can be balanced by using the probability of failure with reserves , good forecasting of demand and supply.

          Nothing wrong in maintaining older plant in reserve for winter peaks if needed.

  38. Richard1
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Off topic I suppose the govt’s announcement of a pay rise for teachers due to their hard work during the pandemic is deliberately sarcastic? (with a few honourable exceptions in the state sector and of course the whole of the private sector).

    Hopefully it will at least shame into silence the unions who are putting every obstacle in the way of a full return in September.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

      Govt as ever totally terrified of ultra Marxist unions.
      So stupid. It isn’t as if teachers are actually necessary…as has been proved.

  39. glen cullen
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    The consumer should be dictating the pace of EV development and not governments

    Just leave things alone,,,if people want to buy and use EVs they will find a way without governments help nor tax-payers support

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

      But then were is the headline, the sound-bite to remind us they are still there.

      • glen cullen
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

        so true

  40. Patrick Lawless
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    I fear the EU is replicating its compact fluorescent lamp and diesel mistakes. Although, thank goodness, the UK no longer has to be dragged along in the wake of such decisions. Both the aforementioned were transitional technologies and known to be such at the time the policies were enacted.

    A little less urgency to be seen to be doing something would have saved the mercury now accumulating in landfill sites and even more seriously unnecessary deaths due to diesel particulates.

    The disadvantages of battery cars – I own one so know the issues – will make their replacement by hydrogen fuel cell vehicles inevitable. This might not happen for another 5/10 years but what return on investment will be forthcoming on 1 million electric sockets that are no longer needed to charge cars that can be filled up with liquid hydrogen as per petrol/diesel cars.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

      @Patrick, agreed

      The need to be ‘seen’ pandering to the Woke community before the real world by government no longer surprises

    • S Matthews
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      Not Hydrogen, too dangerous and too low an energy density. But check out the work being done on Ammonia and fuel cells. SA much better solution.

  41. Mark
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    When I looked for some data on annual mileage in the EU I was shocked to discover that it had fallen in Italy from 12,000km/year in 2000 to 8,000km/year in 2017. It is a measure of the degree of economic collapse there, but perhaps it is a clue to how they think they will squeeze a quart into a pint pot.

    The actual average is about 12,000km/year, so at 5km/kWh that implies each car will use 2.4MWh/year, and 230 million would use 552TWh, or an average of 63GW. If charging were only through these charge points, even if they were in continuous use 24×7 they would have to run at 63kW with no swap over time. I don’t think car manufacturers are planning to have charging systems that can handle so high a charge rate. Trucks would be a different problem altogether.

    It’s for show, not for solving the problem.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted July 24, 2020 at 7:20 am | Permalink

      No, it is, at least in part, a measure of the improvements in public transport.

      The Freccia Rossa is pretty damned good, for instance.

  42. Everhopeful
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

    Seems likely that car ownership will be for the rich 1% only. Electric cars are uber expensive. In recent years we have relied too heavily on China for volume production to bring prices down. Can’t do that now!
    So maybe the million sockets will suffice?
    Petrol was an easy, quick transaction…not so with electricity. And what regulations will control the price of the electricity. Captive market!
    Try hydrogen?
    BTW….Has it occurred to those rejoicing in sudden working from home that those jobs will now be sooooo easy to outsource.
    We are all going to be a great deal poorer.

  43. Rhoddas
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    EVs only work for local journeys but not long range imho, as recharging in service stations en route looks pretty laborious, destinations too. And China’s CATL provide most of the the battery tech….. this is now risky. Have we heard anything about UK’s Dyson battery R&D of late?

    Hybrids may be an interim solution until the commercials of charging points is resolved. Upping the tax on nasty Petrol/Diesel would be one way to incentivise EV solutions. Fuel cell tech may complement EVs too, but nothing has reached critical mass here yet. Germany is talking about Ammonia as a green fuel solution too.

    As an aside – on the alleged inhuman treatment of the Uighur community, how about using the Proceeds of Crime Act to go after the fashion companies/people getting rich on their slave labour in cotton products. Soon stop it.

    The coalition has published an extensive list of brands it claims continue to source from the region, or from factories connected to the forced labour of Uighur people, including (names removed ed)

    Make it part of trade deals, no products that use slave labour in any part of supply chain or if they do 500% import tax, applied retrospectively over a 5 year period.

  44. Iain Gill
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:54 am | Permalink

    Installing the charge points is relatively trivial, it is the upgrade to the national grid to deal with the massive increase in power being transmitted that is the real issue and cost.

    • turboterrier
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

      Iain Gill

      Correct

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

      Neither is that trivial – both are big issues.

  45. NickC
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:26 am | Permalink

    JR asked “The issue is should government be supplying these facilities?”

    Well, who else? Battery electric cars are a top-down government policy. So perforce the provision of the fuel must also be a top-down government policy.

    The alternative is to let people decide for themselves. And then the provision of the battery cars, the charging points, and the power stations to generate all that electricity, will occur when it makes economic sense.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

      Forgive me but you appear to be saying the cyclist or other non-motorist should pay for someone’s nice shiny new battery car just because they are a taxpayer.

      As always Governments don’t have money, any promise they make is a promise to take more from the taxpayer.

      The usual form is those that cant even contemplate a new car gets to pay for those that even with out taxpayer subsidy could have afforded it any way.

      Yes it the Governments fault, the have a magic money tree without telling you – your it.

      • glen cullen
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

        concur with your comments…..it appears the magic money trees are growing fast

      • NickC
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

        Ian, I was not advocating the government do this. Far from it – the government should not be imposing battery electric cars on the market. But they are. Consequently they have a responsibility to ensure the provision of the fuel. Or reverse the BEV policy – which is my preference.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

      +1 lets have the alternative please.

  46. Barbara
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    EU ‘greenery’, powered by burning lignite (dirty coal).

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

      The method of producing power for commodity production isn’t used in the products environment calculations. Just as it doesn’t count when it is the resource behind charging points.

      The EV shenanigans have nothing to do with being green, but everything to do with subsidizing production with the use of the taxpayers deep pockets. An exciting sound-bite to keep the people on board.

  47. Nigl
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

    Ps so according to our EU negotiator Boris’s end of July deadline has been ditched.

    Please tell us what we can believe. Certainly not what Boris seems to say.

    • Andy
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

      It is quaint that you are just figuring out now not to trust what Boris says.

      The EU is working to its own timetable – not to yours. The EU is the bigger player here. It has less to lose from no deal. Talks will continue on its terms.

      When you realise that you do not really hold any cards, let alone all of them, you’ll realise that the end destination here is to accept a deal largely on the EU’s terms. Barnier will give Johnson something he can sell as a big win – presumably on fishing which is irrelevant to everyone except Brexiteers – and Johnson will then claim victory.

      Like he did when he sold out Northern Ireland.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

        Fishing seems not to be irrelevant to the EU.

  48. Mike Wilson
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    Strikes me the logical step at the moment is hybrids. Last time I had my Toyota serviced the showroom was full of info on hybrids – including the fact that, apparently, Toyota have sold 8 million of them. And lots of cabbies use a Prius because they are getting 300,000 miles out of them. So, 70 to 80 to the gallon of petrol seems to be as green as we can be for the time being – until the government decides what is actually going to happen.

    At the moment, like everything this government is involved with, the future of personal transport is a farce. Car manufacturers are bringing out one electric car after another – but their range is too limited for many people, they are bloody expensive to buy, they are not particularly environmentally friendly and there is nowhere near enough generating capacity for us all to own one.

    What is the government’s response to all this. Why, nothing of course. You surely can’t expect Boris Johnson to come up with some sort of long term strategy.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      Do you know what, I think even Labour would be better than the current government.

      • Original Chris
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

        Well as our current government is not truly Conservative and is pursuing policies which cultural Marxists would not be ashamed of, I am not surprised at your views, MW.

        • hefner
          Posted July 24, 2020 at 6:24 am | Permalink

          Conservative Unionist Nationalist Tories?

      • glen cullen
        Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

        If the labour party ever got rid of its EU and green policies – who knows they could be in with a shout

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

      Mike

      Madness for the government to list hybrids with the same cut off date as diesel and petrol vehicles.

      Does the same date apply to commercial vehicles as well JR ?

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

      Mike W, Well, you can get 300,000 miles out of a PSA-Ford diesel (provided they don’t ingest their turbo). But, yes, a plug in hybrid (battery for local, IC engine charging for long distances) does seem the most logical (assuming you swallow the CAGW hoax). Pity that the government are banning hybrids at the same time as petrol and diesel cars.

    • Original Chris
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

      Mike, the government’s policy is basically to price ordinary people out of the car market. Very significant that President Trump has taken steps to ensure that care manufacturers, instead of producing every more expensive cars, (because of pursuing the green “sustainability” agenda), work towards producing affordable cars. Excellent idea. The price of cars nowadays is ridiculous, and most of them have features that the ordinary driver could not care a damn about.

  49. John McDonald
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    Here in Wokingham we have chargers outside the council offices and at a Garage at California Cross Roads. A mixed approach and probably the correct way forward.
    Cars and fueling is an established commercial undertaking, so Government and Tax payer stay clear.
    It is too soon for the long distance all electric car, and petrol/electric is only practical option at this time.
    Larger vehicles should be hydrogen fueled and there are stations already. A Shell initiative.
    Constant fast charge of a battery is not good for battery life/capacity.
    Has anybody been killed yet by the silent electric car ?
    Where is all the electricity coming from to feed the electric car ?

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

      The Wokingham taxpayer foots the bill for these, and the shiny new BMW i3’s the council runs around in.

      • John Mcdonald
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 10:18 am | Permalink

        Hi Ian,
        And the chargers in a commercial garage at Finchampstead ?
        But agree a BMW for a council worker is not supporting what’s left of the UK car industry. Only the Mayor needs a posh car. They could be their own cars, but the mileage allowance must be good 🙂
        Regards,
        John

    • NickC
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

      John M asked: “Where is all the electricity coming from to feed the electric car?”

      Good question. One which the government is yet to answer.

  50. Freeborn John
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    I can’t understand why the U.K. has, according to David Frost, conceded ground to the EU on the structure of any deal. A single document would just be a stick for EU to beat us when it dislikes any thing that the U.K. does in future. Far better a bare bones FTA or WTO trading addicted by the independent WTO arbitration than a single document with the EU that would allow them to unilaterally inflict punishments across a wide range of areas. Weakness from the U.K. in making such concessions carries long term consequences and frankly encourages the EU to persist in thinking the U.K. will always cave in the end.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

      +1

      It would appear the only concession the EU wants is that they make our laws and rules. Then the EU and only the EU gets to say if they are broken or not, the legality MUST be by the EU Court of justice.

      Or put another way, regardless of how the EU treats other independent nations, the UK is special and has to submit to their will

    • beresford
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

      Not to mention adversely affecting any negotiations we try to do with anybody else. Others will expect the same freebies we give to the EU.

    • multiID
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

      Freeborn John – Any Irishman might think, listening to David Frost’s arguement about how awful it is that the EU 27 are not complying with UK demands/ ie. foot stomping might be reminded of that of Ireland in 1922 trying to get out from under the yoke of bad old England’s UK imperialism- but nothing could be further from the truth- Over the years UK could have left the EU at any stage, just walk out, however the same could never be said about poor old Ireland- she had to fight every inch of the way with force of arms to get free. Am afraid UK’s argument of the ‘poor me’s’ is not matching up- so David Frost again am afraid- no kudo’s today

    • Original Chris
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

      Boris never got rid of the Withdrawal Agreement of Theresa May. That tells you all you need to know.

  51. Original Richard
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Fast charging degrades current batteries very quickly so this needs to be addressed to enable EVs to make long distance journeys as easily as local trips.

    Or the development of a liquid battery, which Glasgow University reported they were working on in 2018.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

      Indeed the rapid charging battery depreciation becomes even higher and more energy is wasted as heat too! I prefer a car you can put 800 miles of fuel into in about 4 mins including paying the bill. Plus one that hardly leaks fuel at all when parked.

  52. Everhopeful
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    Off topic..or poss not…has govt. done risk assessment re wearing of masks?
    They need to!

  53. glen cullen
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

    The Statutory Instruments for wearing masks on public transport is in force for 12 months….yes you have to wear a mask for 12 months

    The Statutory Instruments for wearing masks in shops etc due to come into force the 24th July i.e tomorrow, hasn’t even been published yet ? so how can it be enforce ?

    Am I the only one worried about laws via the backdoor

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

      No. And I am NEVER going to wear a mask.

      • glen cullen
        Posted July 24, 2020 at 8:45 am | Permalink

        concur….next it will be arm bands

    • glen cullen
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

      update –

      Statutory Instruments (SI) 2020 No. 791
      Public Health, England The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings in a Relevant Place) (England) Regulations 2020
      SI expires in 12 months (12 months)

  54. A.Sedgwick
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    The market i.e. consumer common sense will decide whether current electric cars are viable.

    Woody Allen and his film “Sleeper” spring to mind for some reason.

  55. a-tracy
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    It seems to me that most of the homes around our way with solar panels on them are social housing, a lot of the mobility cars are parked on the drives of the social housing, perhaps you could connect the two things up as a trial, the government likes to spend money on this group of people all the time if you can save money, restrict the engine and size of mobility cars and have them electric generated from the solar panels they already have on the roof.

  56. David Brown
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Generally more electric charger points are a good idea as we move towards all electric cars only. I guess the key issue is should the state provide these examples are in Birmingham streets. Or private sector examples are in pub/restaurant car parks. I think charger points are good in public car parks either state or private. So I guess the answer is a mix of both.
    On a another point about the EU, there is a BBC report that suggests a no deal means the service sector that includes banking has no access to the EU? Not sure how this works!.
    There is of course the big issue of USA elections and who gains control after November in the USA. Democrats like the EU and want a close economic and financial partnership. Where does this leave Britain if Democrats gain control?

    • glen cullen
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

      The government doesn’t provide fuel pump stations for internal combustion engine vehicle so why should government provide electric charge points for electric vehicles ? Did I say government I meant tax-payer

  57. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 5:14 pm | Permalink

    If you want to accelerate the demand for electric cars and the provision of charging points, then designate car parks in London that are open only to electric cars. Simultaneously, enforce one metre spacing and the wearing of masks rigidly on public transport. That will over time ensure a safe, healthy return to work in London, although many people working from home is something that will endure. Please tell the PM to get real – I don’t care if he doesn’t like it.

    There’s going to be some unemployment; the way to ensure that it is of short duration is to get rid of much of the red tape and regulation created by the EC and gold plated by our civil service. We should make sure that as many of the redundancies as possible arise in the bureaucracies.

    And please tell the PM and Grant Shapps that it makes no sense to accelerate new publc transport infrastructure when demand for public transport has nose dived.

  58. Freeborn John
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    Why is Boris Johnson setting a new deadline for agreement with the EU by October. In the eyes of Brussels he blinked by setting July as a deadline For an agreement in principle and then doing nothing when that came and went. U.K. business will benefit more from the certainty of trading on WTO terms on January 1 than be the continued uncertainty of the government chasing a will o the wisp deal with the EU that is in any certain to be worse than WTO trading. Johnson will to the way of May if he keeps caving like he has on his July deadline.

    • multiID
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

      You still don’t get it- Johnson was never a real brexiteer it was only a away to getting to the top job. When brexit happened he was the most surprised of all

    • glen cullen
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

      correct – he did blink, and he’ll blink again than he’ll cave

    • Caterpillar
      Posted July 23, 2020 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

      +1

  59. Anonymous
    Posted July 23, 2020 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

    BBC at it again.

    News at 10 running a BLM documentary on history in the middle of the news.

    Run a documentary maybe, on it but during the news ?

    The BBC needs sorting out. It is inciting insurrection.

  60. ian
    Posted July 24, 2020 at 12:37 am | Permalink

    One million charging points over 7 years and 5 million charging points by 2050 is hardly a game-changer for the whole of Europe.

    BJ the biggest spender I have seen so far, not much up top but boy does he know how to spend, that’s my boy.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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