Stopping illegal migration

As there is great support from many writing in for this, why not set out  your proposals  for the Home Secretary in your postings as she clearly shares this aim.

I have raised this issue several times in the Commons, on this site and elsewhere. I have proposed a more intense police operation against people traffickers, and new UK  asylum legislation which makes clear all EU continental countries are safe countries and the Dublin Convention should therefore be applied by our courts.

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459 Comments

  1. Mike Wilson
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    1) Build a pontoon/barrier across the centre of the English Channel and turn the boats around.

    2) Ask the French to allow you to set up an interview centre in France and invite everyone who wants to get on a boat for interview.
    a) Ask they why the are not claiming asylum in France – or any other country they have passed through
    b) Ask them why they should be allowed to settle in England – which is already overcrowded and with a housing shortage and which has had high levels of Tory Government mandated immigration for many years

    When the word goes around that the boats get half way and get turned back, they will go back to France and claim asylum there. France is a much bigger country than here with loads of unoccupied/derelict property in rural areas.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

      You only have to send one boat back and the rest will get the message

    • Rodney Atkinson
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

      There are NO refugees landing in the UK. No neighbouring countries are recognised by us as persecuting their inhabitants. As I have ben trying to drum into Tory Governments for 30 years immigration is NOT necessary or desirable. Trade and the movement of capital make the movement of people unnecessary. Skills are short only because industry and Government have not trained our own people. Multinational corporations MIGHT justify entry for a limited number of their own workers.

      • BOF
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

        Excellent points. Immigration has, in fact, been detrimental.

        • glen cullen
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

          I am still surprised that the labour party are in favour of mass immigrantion as its prime function is the supply of cheap labour and the displacement of working class jobs

          • Ian
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

            The Labour Party has long abandoned the working class in favour of a new and rapidly increasing demographic dedicated to displacement of the indigenous people of the UK.

          • IanT
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

            Yes, very puzzling if you assume they are interested in the well being of working class voters – but maybe they just think importing potential new “Labour” voters is easier than looking after the interests of those who already live here.

      • NickC
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

        Rodney Atkinson, Well said. At heart the government doesn’t stop immigration because it doesn’t want to stop immigration, not because it can’t.

        • cornishstu
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

          Exactly, there is the lack of political will.

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

        Yes. Because a displaced British worker needs government welfare. This means the migrant worker is subsidised too.

        • GilesB
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:49 am | Permalink

          Also the jobs destroyed are in communities with housing, hospitals, schools and other infrastructure already in place. Each new jobs for migrants needs a million pound of funding investments in housing etc. Money which is no longer available for investments to improve worker productivity.

      • M Davis
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

        Absolutely, and do you think for one moment this Government will get it? Of course they won’t because it is not on their agenda. Imagine being a Tory voter for as long as I have had a vote and being confronted with boatloads, day after day of SO-CALLED ‘asylum seekers’! The Tory Government should be obliged to tour the old Mill Towns of the North, on foot! And FORCED to live amongst it! That might, just MIGHT, make them sit up and take notice! I have had enough, just as I know that many, many people living up North have! What about us? WHAT ABOUT US!!!!

        • BeebTax
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

          +1

      • Iago
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

        Very well said.

      • nhsgp
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink

        A simple policy for economic migration is needed

        1. No criminals – unlike now. Heck the Home Office is even putting up criminals in 4 star hotels.

        2. No discrimiantion. Unlike the current racist policy where statistically white EU nationals get special treatment. For some reason the left fail to mention that

        3. Net contributors only – unlike now.

        The last one should be an annual test. If you can’t pay the tax to cover all your costs you have to leave. Of course the left can sponsor you. They guarantee to pay any costs that you don’t. I wonder how many do that.

        For the channel its easy. They arrive. First stop is the courts for entering illegally. Criminal conviction. See point 1. Second stop is the Eurostar and they are sent back if they can’t specify what threat to their life the French state is exposing them too.

        It doesn’t take many deportations for the message to spread.

        Official figures of 1.5 million illegals are more likely 3-4 million. The Home Office is clueless and covering up.

        To give you an example, the FOI department refused an FOI request for the telephone number of the FOI department.

        The complaints department isn’t even listed.

        Head of the Home Office Civil service, apparently doesn’t have a phone number.

        • hefner
          Posted August 11, 2020 at 7:19 pm | Permalink

          nhsgp, on http://www.gov.uk the phone number of the FoI is given, 0303 123 1113, together with a number of relevant pieces of information.
          Actual length of my web search, about two minutes. I might start a service to help people properly use the internet.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

            It would give you something useful to do.
            That’s for sure.

    • David Brown
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

      There was a suggestion some time ago in the papers to build a bridge across the channel. That would save migrants having to use boats

    • Bob
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

      “Build a pontoon/barrier”

      Not necessary, just stop incentivising them by ferrying them ashore, stop the free all inclusive 4 star hotel packages. These people are economic migrants and by allowing them to stay our govt are being very unfair to all the people who are waiting in line to come to live and work in the UK legally.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

      “Ask they why the are not claiming asylum in France?”

      Why don’t you let them claim asylum in the UK instead. It is not as if the UK is some kind on unsafe war torn country unfit to receive asylum seekers.

      • Edward2
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

        Because they are already in France.
        Which is safe decent democracy.

        • hefner
          Posted August 12, 2020 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

          You might also do something useful if you were to read about Dublin III and how the actions of Hungary, Slovakia, Poland,….have basically left it toothless. Migrants are not forced to register in the first EU they reach. They are not even to do this in France, some do, some don’t: those who don’t usually see the UK as an attracting spot, because they speak a bit of English and no other EU language, they know there is no compulsory ID document in the UK, they might already have potentially have ‘supporting’ relatives in the UK, …
          All the nice things you say about ‘Douce France‘ unfortunately do not cut mustard and certainly do not form any type of argument receivable in emigration law.

          • Karen Sunderland
            Posted August 16, 2020 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

            The only way is updating the legal system to beat the HR Lawyer trade & punitive measures for do-gooder NGOs paying for migrant crossings.

            MPs are lawmakers – make it 2020 proof!

      • NickC
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

        Because England (and even the UK) are overpopulated in comparison to France? And because France letting them into France is not the UK’s responsibility?

      • G Wilson
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

        Because genuine asylum seekers would be seeking asylum in the first safe country they came to.

        Failure to do so is strong evidence they are coming here not for asylum, but for the generous welfare and free doctors that France won’t lay on for them.

        • hefner
          Posted August 12, 2020 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

          Anyway, that does not address the problem: in 2019 (www.gov.uk How many people do we grant asylum or protection to? 21/05/2020) 20,339 people were received in the UK under the asylum provisions between 01/04/2019 and 31/03/2020.
          Over the year ending December 2019, there were 677k immigrants, 407k emigrants, so a net migration of 270k to the UK. Among those the British had 77k in, 138k out, -60k net, the EU27 had 196k in, 147k out, 49k net, the non-British/non-EU had 404k in, 122k out, so 282k net staying in the UK.
          Even with Sir John brandishing Dublin III, that’s roughly 20k people out of 282k.
          Anyone can see his sleight of hand?

          • G Wilson
            Posted August 13, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

            Just because one problem isn’t all problems, doesn’t mean it’s not a problem.

        • hefner
          Posted August 13, 2020 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

          GW, I am afraid you should be getting updated and should check Section 31 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999, which basically invalidates the first sentence of your 09/08 2:59pm post.
          You are right that there might not be a EU law but this IAA1999 is a UK law, which practically make all your posts of the day irrelevant.
          Tough, isn’t it.

          • G Wilson
            Posted August 14, 2020 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

            You should probably look at s28 of the same act, on deception in attempting to obtain leave, a criminal offence.

            That’s quite tough, too.

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Sir John

      Here are French government sponsored NGO’s that are actively helping these illegals across the Channel. Will HMG challenge the French and demand that they cease and desist in this activity ?

      • hefner
        Posted August 13, 2020 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

        Please provide the list of the ‘French government sponsored NGOs actively helping these illegals across the Channel’. I am really interested in these ‘French government sponsored NGOs’. If such a thing were true it should create a diplomatic incident.

  2. Sea Warrior
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    I have – and I’ve set out my proposals here, on Con Home, at Guido Fawkes and at Mail Online. Let me summarise: the overwhelming majority of those breaking in to our country must be immediately sent back to the place of safety they have come from or to their countries of origin. But though I salute your choice of blog subject today, I dispute your assertion that Priti Patel cares: she doesn’t and neither does Boris Johnson.

    • NigelE
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

      @Sea Warrior: I agree.

      Sir JR states:
      “all EU continental countries are safe countries and the Dublin Convention should therefore be applied by our courts. ”

      Which I think is self evident apart from the fact that the courts do NOT need to be involved. Involving the courts costs time and (tax payers’) money – which mostly ends up in immigration lawyers pockets or for supporting illegals. The process should be similar to speeding or parking offences, i.e an automatic penalty: arrive in this country illegally and you are returned to the country from which you departed (known by drone or satalite monitoring) automatically. Border Force (currently better known as Border Farce?) should be instructed to do this.

      Genuine asymlum seekers can be dealt with by one of Mike W’s suggestions: an interview in France.

    • Fred H
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

      SW – – thats been the tactic from the very beginning of this government – delay, confuse, promise , delay – – almost everything will deflate and possibly go away.

      You have to admit its working quite well so far.
      But, when the GE is called…

      • glen cullen
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

        correct – the policy of delay till every immigrant have arrived, and when no more cross the channel (because they’re all here) this government will claim victory !

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

      Johnson would give all these illegals amnesty if he could.

  3. Ian @Barkham
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:35 am | Permalink

    Hello Sir John

    For me there is no one easy solution. Is all migration bad. Doing it illegibly robs legitimate claims of a spot. In a sense it is bully boy queue jumping.

    The abhorrent bit is the profiteering by the traffickers. There is the catch, all the time the government allows this to happen the more it will happen.

    The government either has to catch the traffickers (I would guess impossible) or the nip the trade in the bud by sending the illegal’s back to their place of origin. Returning them sends the message don’t give these criminal money, they cant deliver. There will be big objections at the outset, but if this is followed up with a pragmatic and transparent method to arrive here legally any objection should pale.

    Its tough love, but if the legs aren’t kicked out from under the criminals that are profiting from this trade who knows were it will lead.

    • Otto
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

      Catching traffickers must be easy – they don’t hide from clients genuine or undercover.

      I think they are not arrested because selling boats, at any price, to anyone is not a criminal act – it’s legal or is there a UK law against it applicable in France?

      What international law is there which makes providing taxi services in each ongoing country illegal? There maybe laws but I’ve never heard of them.

    • beresford
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

      We could stop the profiteering by selling them passage to england ourselves, but the problems of uncontrolled and unvetted immigration would still remain.

  4. MickN
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:41 am | Permalink

    I know the mantra is “my hands are tied”. OK I accept that until the end of December. What about the Nightingale Hospitals, where it was safe to house our sick and were built so quickly. Can these illegal migrants not be housed there until their claims are processed? Oh and by the way it should be No papers No claim. EVER!!
    It is sickening that they are being put up in hotels that most of us can’t afford.
    If I were genuinely fleeing persecution because of danger to myself or family (why 95% young men btw?) I would be eternally grateful for food, medical facilities, and warm shelter albeit a tent in a field.
    If I were an economic migrant however……

    • Andy
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

      No you wouldn’t. If you were facing the prospect of several years – possibly decades – in a tent you would not be grateful at all. You would want something better. Watching your kids childhood vanish while you face a daily half mile trip to the nearest loo.

      And all that happens in December is that the EU law which has allowed us to return asylum seekers to France expires. You no longer have it. It means the one legal mechanism we had has gone. That is what Brexit means. They did not put that on the side of a bus, did they?

      • Otto
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

        ‘…the EU law which has allowed us to return asylum seekers to France expires. ‘ How many have been returned?

        • glen cullen
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

          I’d like to know how many of the thousands of asylum seekers in the UK, have had their application refused and are classified as ”economic migrant”

          • hefner
            Posted August 12, 2020 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

            8,637 were returned between April’18 and March’19 (www.gov.uk How many people are detained or returned?).

      • beresford
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

        No Andy, EU law DOESN’T allow us to return them to France or we would be doing it now. EU law says we have to return them to the point where they entered the EU. I’m surprised JR allows you to keep telling fibs.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

          Yes, but they will not say.

          In any case, the European Union will no longer be obliged to accept them once the transition period has expired, even if they did.

          • glen cullen
            Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

            Yes they will its a UN convention

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

            UN resolutions apply to nations.

            So if the claimants do not name a nation as their point of entry, then – if your claim were correct – there is still nowhere to send them.

            But the UK cannot make any further claim, under European Union law, in the ECJ.

          • G Wilson
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:05 pm | Permalink

            You will be unable to cite any EU law to support your claim, because there isn’t one.

      • Fred H
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

        I never realised France is that bad. No day trips for me.

      • NickC
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

        Andy said: “all that happens in December is that the EU law which has allowed us to return asylum seekers to France expires”.

        Andy, I thought you claimed we had already left the EU?

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        You wanted uncontrolled immigration

        You got Brexit because of it.

        • IanT
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

          A good deal of truth in that…. 🙂

      • steve
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Perhaps you could lead the way by taking in some of these illegal immigrants ?

      • G Wilson
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

        There is no “EU law which has allowed us to return asylum seekers to France”.

        Making up fairy tales like this is why you remainers keep losing so badly.

        • hefner
          Posted August 14, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

          Why is there a need for a EU law when the UK Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 already gives asylum seekers the right to put a claim and as clearly stated no need to apply in the first EU country that they have reached. This was practically strengthened by the UK signing the Migration Compact in November 2018.

          To me, Sir John is just pandering to most of you and as Pavlov’s little doggies you react accordingly with very limited knowledge and/or no will to search for proper relevant legal texts.
          So I can only wonder, who is the best provider of fairy tales?

          reply I am pressing for U.K. legislation to fix this

          • G Wilson
            Posted August 14, 2020 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

            The false claim I was replying to was rather different. EU law does nothing in regard of returning the channel-crossers to France.

            The legislation you’re referring to doesn’t stop us from kicking them out.

    • Otto
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

      I would have thought that the origin ‘no papers’ people could easily be determined by UK native speakers of Farsi, Arabic of various countries etc. in pinpointing where people come from by the accent and peculiar attributes of those languages.

      I’ve never heard of this being done – no one has thought of it? I can believe that knowing the incompetence of the UK govt.

      • Sea Warrior
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

        Good idea. DNA testing would also be of assistance. Those refusing to identify themselves should be detained until they do.

      • Timaction
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

        Same with their DNA from samples to obtain Country of origin. Return forthwith. Cheaper than 4* Hotels, food, healthcare, pocket money, mobile phones etc. It isn’t that the airlines dont need the business. Instant removal after appearance before a proper judge and right wing magistrate. That would send the correct message and appease normal voters that the Government are on their side, unlike they are now! After all the other nonsense you’ve allowed your Government needs a win.

        • Original Richard
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 11:26 am | Permalink

          It is not necessary to check their DNA.

          Simply check to which country they are sending their mobile ‘phone pictures of their trip around Anfield followed by a slap-up fish and chip dinner before returning to their 4-star hotel.

  5. Duyfken
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    With the obvious action of returning any illegals immediately to France or to whatever country they departed from, the government should ensure and make it clear that any person succeeding in entering the UK illegally will NEVER be eligible to become either a British citizen or a permanent resident. Their presence in UK must be established as temporary, any subsistence aid provided to be minimal, and every effort made to make them unwelcome.

    I should also like to learn of JR’s views.

    • BeebTax
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

      Yes, the obvious deterrent is an immutable law that illegal entry means you will never get the right to work or stay, and will never be allowed to come back again – even as a tourist).

  6. Mike Stallard
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    I was proud to vote Conservative (again) at the last election. I believed the Home Secretary when she talked tough about unvetted, illegal immigration.
    Nigel Farage’s footage has led to even the Mail picking up the scandal of these boats.
    They must be stopped, even at the cost of towing them back to France.
    We have enough problems with bad immigrants (yes, there are some very bad ones in there too, let’s face it) and we do not need more. (My town by the way depends on immigrants for all sorts of things and most of them are really nice good people.)

  7. Paul Calvert
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:55 am | Permalink

    Does she, Sir John?
    There is a very apposite banking phrase; “Words and Figures differ.” Almost all politicians are guilty of this to a degree, some more than others.
    The Government talks tough yet only takes action for as long as the media is paying attention, so I have no faith whatsoever in this, or any other Government taking firm, decisive action.
    You asked for suggestions, so here’s mine:
    1. Change the law so that illegals without passports can be deported much easier.
    2. Build temporary transit camps, guarded by the army, where illegals are processed, fed and returned after a short period. Take fingerprints and DNA so that if they come back they will be identified as serial offenders.
    3. Make it known that anyone coming in illegally will automatically have this, and any other application for asylum, rejected with no appeal.
    4. Intercept boats in the channel, either tow back into French waters or (if in danger of sinking) place the illegals into landing craft and take straight back to France, leaving them on the beaches. If the French object, tell them to do something about it!
    5. Clamp down on illegals already here.

    Once word gets out we are no longer the soft touch we portray and illegals believe, numbers will reduce to a trickle. However, this current, and previous Governments, lack the will to make tough decisions. Even Boris has advocated an amnesty for illegals! What sort of message does this send out to the thousands waiting in Calais? I have little faith in him or Priti to protect our borders.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      If only our government did your 5 point plan, we wouldn’t have a problem

    • BeebTax
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

      I think points 1 to 3 would be enough to stem the flood, if only our politicians had the backbone to drive through the legislative changes needed to allow those things to happen. Then we can address point 5.

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      Australia has this problem and took a tough stance. The result ? The illegal migration stopped. It isn’t hard or impossible.

  8. Peter
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    ‘She clearly shares this aim’.

    I am not so sure about that. She wants to avoid or postpone criticism, but she will not fundamentally change anything.

    ‘Where there is a will there is a way’. I don’t believe there is a government will.

    Victor Orban simply closed his borders to unwelcome migrants. He refused to bow to pressure from bigger, powerful neighbours.

    This country is an island. It is easier to detect illegal arrivals.

    If they were reclassified as an invading enemy, appropriate action could be take. Either repel them by force or incarcerate in unpleasant conditions in an uninhabited offshore island.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

      The tory Party has become the party of mass immigration, taking over the mantle from Bliar.
      Nothing will be done because secretly they endorce it.

      • glen cullen
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

        Well its certainly increased year on year

    • Timaction
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

      We certainly do not know who they are and the risk they pose to us. We have already seen the atrocities committed by people who entered the Country just like these. The Government is failing its first duty to protect us and has little leadership in this and other unlawful events taking place around the Country. The double standards of enforcement and hypocrisy very obvious.

  9. Alan Jutson
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:57 am | Permalink

    We presently have joint passport controls by both France and the UK operating in each others Country.

    The simple solution is to have joint navy patrols in the channel, including in each others waters, and all illegals are taken directly back from where they set off, no matter where they are found.

    It is a simple matter to track headings, even if you are in a small boat.

    All illegally used boats used need to be destroyed as soon as they are returned.

    Its not rocket science John, the most direct, clear and simple methods are the best deterrent.

    • Andy
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      Why would France agree to that?

      Channel migration is a UK problem. France has no need to help. I heard an interview with the head of Calais port the other day. He says it costs £8m a year for security to stop migrants getting in lorries. French taxpayers pay much of that. He wants it to stop at the end of the year. It’s your problem, not theirs.

      The fact is that Brexiters have spent years being abusive to Europeans. Taking back control of your waters and if you put French fishermen out of work – tough. Well, Channel migrants are your problem. And France is telling you tough.

      It turns out cooperation is more productive than confrontation. Who knew?

      • Edward2
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

        It was happening when we were co operative.
        You are deluded.

        • bill brown
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          you mena just like you when you are talking about South Korea instead of Singapore

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 6:32 am | Permalink

            Please rewrite so I can understand what you are rambling on about bill.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

        Andy

        Why not

        The residents of northern France are also fed up with thousands of illegal immigrants causing problems in their own Towns and villages, if we can stop the pull of the UK, then perhaps many will not try to enter France to try and get to the UK.

        If you have been through Calaise and other French Ports you will see the huge amount of fencing the UK has funded and continue to fund.

        • BeebTax
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

          +1. Get rid of the pull factor. The illegals won’t then congregate along the Channel coast ( they’ll simply get jobs in the black economy throughout the EU….but that’s not our problem either).

          • Bob
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

            “Get rid of the pull factor.”

            This is the obvious solution that everyone appears to be overlooking.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

            The pull factor is the ID card-free, unregulated, cash economy – that’s the one of which Tory-voting, tax-evading. self-employed tradesmen are so fond.

            The ones who “lent” them their eighty-seat majority.

            It’s untouchable for that reason.

            Enjoy.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

            If you know of any tax dodging self employed then report them to HMRC.
            Or is it another of your dreadful made up slurs against decent hard working people?

      • NickC
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

        Andy, The migrants are a French problem. Why? – because they’re in France, and the French let them in.

        And, no, Brexiteers have not been abusive to Europeans, we have legitimately criticised the EU which is a political system.

        The EU stole our fish 47 years ago and put British fishermen out of work. Do you care? – No. It turns out confrontation worked for the EU – for 47 years – but now we are stopping it. So, typically, you invert what really happened.

        • Andy
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

          British fishermen sold the rights to fish in British waters. Do I care that this had an impact on them? No. They shouldn’t have sold the rights.

          • graham1946
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

            Lack of facts again. They sold the rights because the deal they were given was not financially viable. Do you ever check anything? Not where EU BS is concerned that’s for sure.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

            They had no choice.
            The quotas imposed on them were so poor only financial ruin faced them.
            Sell up and get out was their only option.

            Don’t believe everything Margaret and the Guardian tells you Andy.

          • NickC
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:59 pm | Permalink

            Even you can’t believe that Remain propaganda, Andy. The EU controls our fishing. In 2018 the UK only landed 29% by weight of fish caught in the UK’s EEZ. UK fishermen sold up because the reduced rights were not enough to make a living. You’ve been told all this before.

  10. beresford
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

    OK. Once again I will say that ‘returning them to France’ is a non-starter, firstly because France has no reason to agree with this and secondly because a number of the smugglers offer a second attempt free if your first attempt fails. Also turning them back at sea will not work because of the potential for accidents that would upset the more sensitive. Find a partner in the Third World outside of Europe and deport them there after a cursory ‘asylum’ hearing. Our partner would help us firstly because we bribe them and secondly because they know the migrants are unlikely to hang around there. After a month or so of this the flow would drop to a trickle and the smugglers would look elsewhere.

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

      No need for a ‘Partner’ or bribes. Just send them to the Falklands or a remote Scottish Island. One winter and with no prospects of a life high on the hog they will want to return home.

  11. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    Thank you for the specific opportunity Sir John.

    Quite simply it has to be not worth their while getting here illegally.

    We should send them back to France (who should send them back to Italy or Greece). Anyone picked up in the channel should be dropped back at a French port for incarceration and repatriation – I would be happy to share the costs of this with France. The detention centres should have the same facilities as a refugee camp (with better sanitation but not by much).

    Anyone who is detained here, awaiting swift repatriation should be detained in secure facilities and given basic rations (bread, jam and fruit with water) until repatriated, if they need clothes they can wear a standard jumpsuit and underwear which they can wash themselves, if they are truly escaping hardship then a little hardship is not too much too bear.

    The UN must pass a rule/law/protocol that no one entering a country illegally unless it is the first safe country the arrive at is entitled to claim asylum in the country entered illegally. That rule does not exist and would cut attempts to enter second countries at a stroke as it has no merit. The quid pro quo for countries like us is making it easier to apply for asylum in our country from the first safe country. These would be the only applications we would entertain and the criteria would need to be speedy and robust. No bearded children please.

    Make it pointless arriving, certainly do not provide a ferry service to these shores for those discovered on the waters, and they will stop coming.

    Also make it clear that our houses are for people who have lived here before they get allocated to others, any successful asylum seeker (from the first safe country) will be housed in dormitories until they can fend for themselves and pay their way in the private sector, being an immigrant in another country entails hardship and sacrifice unless you are already part of the rich and privileged classes.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

      All valid points…I can see a concenus developing here

  12. Alan Jutson
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    All illegals when apprehended to be fingerprinted, DNA taken, and their records kept by both France and the UK.

    Automatic refusal of entry to the UK for 3 years for first offence, 10 years for second offence, and life for third offence, if ever caught trying to enter or found in the UK again.

    Deportation to be immediate should they ever succeed with entry to the UK no matter what the circumstances.

    Just as a comparison I see we are still refusing our Afghanistan translators entry to the UK when their lives, and their families lives, are at real risk because they helped the UK armed forces against our enemies at the time.
    Perhaps they should try the rubber dinghy route instead of trying to do it all legally.

    Members of Parliament should hold their heads in shame.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

      Just by way of explanation and clarification.

      Fingerprints and DNA should be taken whilst they are still in board the intercepting Navy Boat, they must not be taken onto their intended destination, or allowed to even start the claim for asylum under the protracted and time consuming system we have under any circumstances.

      Thus they should never be allowed to enter the UK, unless of course they are trying to escape from the UK and enter France illegally.

      We need to keep illegals out of the asylum system, so that those who are going through the proper application procedures (whilst they are still abroad) are not unduly delayed for consideration.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

      There are hundreds of afghanistan translators housed in a certain army base at salisbury plain – and have been for over 10 years

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:27 pm | Permalink

      Most illegal immigration is people overstaying visas or outstaying the visa-free period.

      Do you think that the many people from Aus, NZ, US, etc. who do this – often unintentionally – should be subject to the penalties above too?

      If not then why not?

      • Edward2
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

        Wrong .
        Estimates are for well over a million illegals.
        The numbers of genuine visa holders who overstay are a small proportion of the total.

        • bill brown
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 4:43 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          you really do not remember your own mistakes and silly comments , mixing up facts and figures. But I suppose this is a sign we have all seen coming for quite a whiile. But do not worry we are here to help you as usual

          • Edward2
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

            This cheap comment is unworthy of you bill.
            Very poor taste thinking it is funny to refer to such a serious subject.

            PS
            You have posted this in the wrong place
            Ironic.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

        Martin

        Same penalty for all people who are here illegally, no matter where they come from.

        As I understand it similar penalties exist in Australia if you enter illegally, if caught you are returned immediately and banned from even visiting Australia again for a period, so you cannot even apply for a visa until that period has run its course.

      • glen cullen
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

        In the military an unloaded or unknown gun is considered loaded, armed, dangerous and unsafe. Those that have had a visa issued and checked are considered safe. However an unknown illegal immigrant is not considered safe but potentially dangerous and hostile

      • NickC
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:45 am | Permalink

        Martin, Don’t be silly – Alan Jutson was specifically referring to the illegal migrants crossing the Channel by boat from France.

        There are no accurate figures kept for visa over-stayers. So estimates are made – around half a million. Some over stays will be intentional deceptions, others inadvertence. Since there are only about 160,000 USA citizens in the UK, and about 126,000 Australians, out of an immigrant population of well over 9 million, such people are unlikely to be a significant part of the problem.

      • G Wilson
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        That’s a trollish attempt to muddy the topic.

        Nobody ever uses the term “illegal migration” to refer to inadvertent visa overstays.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

          Well, how do you distinguish between inadvertent and deliberate?

          White people with English as a first language do it inadvertently, but the rest – which is how most clandestine migrants come to be here – are deliberate, perhaps?

          The numbers, coming from the ex-British Empire and doing this, dwarfed those few coming by dinghy until covid 19 appeared and shut down air travel.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

            We have laws.
            The immigration is either illegal or it isn’t.

            Join the proper queue.
            Come here legally.

          • G Wilson
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

            You’re making things up.

            It doesn’t matter how an illegal immigrant becomes an illegal immigrant.

            What different treatment do you think inadvertent visa overstays should receive, and what have you done about it?

    • G Wilson
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      Why three years or ten years?

      There is no good reason to let anyone who has shown contempt for our laws to settle here, ever.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

        GW

        That is only the suggested wait time before you are allowed to apply legally.

        Thus those that try to enter illegally go to the back of the queue after the minimum time suggested.

        • G Wilson
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

          I can’t think of any reason that an immigrant who has flouted our laws should ever be allowed to reside in our nation, no matter how many years have passed.

          Even if there’s no queue, we wouldn’t want lawbreakers to settle here.

  13. ian
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    People who walked into a factory a few weeks ago where illegal immigrants were working and turn a blind eye, knowing full well that it happening up and the country with over 1 million illegal immigrants working in the UK like this, pull the other one.

  14. The Prangwizard
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:19 pm | Permalink

    With respect Sir John, why don’t you send our comments on to her.

    If we write as individuals they will of course be filtered out and never get anywhere near her. A civil servant will report that some complaints have been received but they are from the usual reactionaries and are small in number. Anything deemed extreme will be considered unsuitable for her to know about, let alone be seen anyway.

    If they come from you via personal email and you recommend they be read by her they may well get attention.

    Reply I have put my views to her and will put any further views that add to the chance of success.

  15. G Wilson
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Prevent anyone entering the country illegally from ever settling here.

    By definition, illegal immigrants, by their very first act in our nation, are demonstrating they’re happy to break our laws.

    We don’t need more law-breakers in the UK.

    Any attempt to illegally enter the UK should result in detention, deportation, and permanent disqualification from residence in our nation.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

      They are breaking French law by not registering in France, they’re breaking French law when stealing a boat, they’re breaking the international law of the sea by illegally transitting the English Channel and breaking English law by entering our country illegally…..not nice people

      • Mark B
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

        +1

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

      Once a law breaker, always a law breaker

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

        Yes, bang up those TV licence-dodgers for a long, long time.

        And no votes for prisoners!

        • G Wilson
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 9:19 am | Permalink

          People do get jailed for not paying the BBC fee.

          What’s your point?

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

          TV licence is a civil matter.

          Ever dropped litter Martin?

          • G Wilson
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

            That’s not correct.

            Non-payment of the BBC tax is a criminal matter.

            That’s why there’s just been a public consultation on decriminalising it.

            People (mostly low-income women) do sometimes get jailed over it.

  16. Peter Parsons
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    Maintain the foreign aid budget at 0.7% of GDP, keep DfID as a separate entity, and use the budget to invest in and support war zones and failed states to give people a chance of building or rebuilding a life there. Create situations where people feel less need to attempt illegal migrations in the first place

    • MickN
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

      It seems that the war zone that they are all fleeing is France.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

        Really? Exactly how many French citizens have turned up in the UK claiming asylum in recent years?

        • Fred H
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

          but about 400,000 French came to Greater London to work.

        • NickC
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:05 am | Permalink

          Precisely none. Which is the point.

    • Fred H
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

      what a lovely fantasy world.
      Please stop killing each other you naughty terrorists.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

        Deal with the cause, not the symptoms.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

          The average wage in countries many immigrants come from is a fraction of the average wage in the UK.
          Deal with that Peter

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

            Using the foreign aid budget to support the development of such places will help to do exactly that.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:46 am | Permalink

            You would need many hundreds of billions every year to bring the min wage and welfare benefits in poor nations up to UK standards.

          • NickC
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

            Peter P, Wrong. There is ample evidence (from P T Bauer to Dambisa Moyo) to show that government aid is counterproductive – it simply engenders corruption, and hampers the development of life sustaining commerce. Read “Dead Aid” by Dambisa Moyo.

    • NickC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

      I am glad you pointed that out, Peter. Clearly the current foreign aid budget of 0.7% UK GDP isn’t working as you envisage, otherwise there’d be no illegal migrants. Therefore we should cut our losses and scrap the foreign aid budget entirely.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

        Is it the budget, or is it the way it is spent or managed?

        • Edward2
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:28 pm | Permalink

          both

      • rose
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:58 pm | Permalink

        On the contrary, aid makes people well enough off to contemplate moving to London. When they were really poor in the fifties and sixties only their upper classes claimed asylum here.

      • bill brown
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

        Nick C

        Shher and utter nonsense the two thingks are not interlinked

    • G Wilson
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

      France was quite peaceful, the last time I looked.

      “Fix our country for us, or we’ll come and commit crime in yours.” There’s no reason we should give in to that kind of extortion.

  17. Iain Moore
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

    Sending in the RN is a joke, all it will do is supply bigger more expensive boats to hold more migrants.

    The source of the problem is the Convention of Refugees along with the Human Rights Act

    The 1951 Convention of refugees is a blank cheque from a past generation that we have no hope of honouring, and delude ourselves if we do, let alone the vastly expanded definition courtesy of our activist judiciary . If you really want to sort this out, sort that out, or withdraw from it, but no doubt our virtue signalling political class would faint at the mere thought of it.

    • SecretPeople
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

      We need to suspend our adherence to European/International conventions as well as the UN scheme Mrs May signed up to since our goodwill is currently being grossly abused. The HRA, participation in the ECHR, antic of human rights lawyers and the interpretations of judges also require an overhaul. If worst comes to worst, a people’s boycott on purchases of French products until they co-operate.

      • steve
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

        ” If worst comes to worst, a people’s boycott on purchases of French products until they co-operate.”

        Speak for yourself, but I’ve been boycotting French products since 1982, and Irish products since May went grovelling to Varadkar and the Irish press was disrespectful to my country.

        British food products are in abundance at supermarkets and farmers markets.

        No one needs to buy anything from the ungrateful, French – led, EU.

        Hmm, reminds me I have to buy some sausages in the morning, they’ll be British of course.

        2 oz British Beef Suet
        4 oz British flour
        1 Chopped British onion.

        Mix together with water into a dough.

        Microwave for 6 – 9 minutes or steam for half hour.

        Serve with British Sausages, British Marrowfat Peas and lashings of British traditional gravy.

        It’s actually a British wartime recipe, but still beats all when it comes to cost, fantastic taste and sheer belly bloating capability.

        • margaret howard
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

          steve

          “…sheer belly bloating capability.”

          I can well believe it – and all the embarrassment that goes with it!

          (and no doubt the ‘British traditional gravy’ is Bisto. As a Frenchman might say: Quelle horreur)

          • a-tracy
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

            Hmmm Oxo

          • steve
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:20 pm | Permalink

            MH

            “I can well believe it – and all the embarrassment that goes with it!”

            Not sure if you refer to obesity or digestive issues…..I have neither.

            Then again I’m one of those lucky people who can eat like a horse but my weight never changes.

            Beef suet twice a week, steak pie twice a week, usually salad at weekends this time of year, or in winter slow cooker comes in handy.

            Balanced diet and exercise / work is the secret.

          • margaret howard
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:19 am | Permalink

            steve

            -:)

    • NickC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

      Iain Moore, The “source of the problem” is the freebies (NHS, houses, money) that we give to the successful(?) migrants.

      • Iain Moore
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

        No I disagree, yes those things might be nice, but the real pull factor is that once they get here there is no deporting them.

  18. kenneth
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    I propose that we deploy our armed forces and especially the navy to arrest anyone in UK waters without proper documentation and or proof of UK citizenship. This needs to be fully manned.

    We need to build prison ships to hold them and then transfer them to secure factories where they can earn their keep and we can hold a portion of their wages to save for a travel ticket to leave the UK.

    Once they have the funds they will be issued with a one-use passport (exit only) so they can leave the country if they want to. If they don’t want to, they can work so we can make low-cost goods in markets we had been priced out of years ago.

    It’s important that their only way out would be to work to pay for their passage out of detention.

    In this way the numbers would drop overnight as the incentive would have been stopped. This will save lives and save a lot a money.

    • NigelE
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

      Sorry Ken, I’m no fan of illegal immigration but your punishment sound too much like slavery.

      Just send them back from the point they land on our shores.

      • kenneth
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

        After Dec 31st we can’t “just send them back”. Also, imprisonment is not slavery. We didn’t force them to come.

        Anyway, within days, the boats would stop.

        Illegal immigration is upsetting for everyone. The dangers on the high seas eventually lead to loss of life.

        We are too worried about upsetting the Left and the BBC etc who would rather their weird doctrines were followed then solve the problem.

  19. glen cullen
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    Sir John

    There are two issues that people have been talking about since the EU referendum four & half years ago

    When is this government going to delivery Brexit and when are they going to reduce immigration

    The people of this country want us to be fair but firm

    Allow genuine application for asylum seekers from European countries

    Tow back to France any vessel that enters our territorial waters illegally i.e with illegal passengers and or stolen vessels

    Return any other illegal immigrant by first available transport back to France

    What I am describing is the system/policy in use throughout the world

    Time for talk is over

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      +1

      If everyone can be English then no-one is English and it’s all over.

      • margaret howard
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

        As long as we all remain human beings (whatever nationality)!

        Empires rose and fell for thousands of years before we ever made an appearance on the world stage. They will do so when we are gone.

        • Anonymous
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

          We’re having it your way, we shall see how it turns out quite soon.

          I’d have preferred it had the majority been listened to. Instead this country will be dismantled and go the way of every other tin pot tyranny.

          • glen cullen
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:06 pm | Permalink

            I fear you may be correct – our culture is disappearing before our every eyes

  20. Longinus
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    Fix our immigration system
    The vote to leave the EU was, among other things, a vote to take back control of our borders.
    That is why a majority Conservative Government will get Brexit done, and then introduce a firmer and fairer Australian-style points-based immigration system, so that we can decide who comes to this country on the basis of the skills they have and the contribution they can make – not where they come from. Migrants will contribute to the NHS – and pay in before they can receive benefits.
    Our new system gives us real control over who is coming in and out. It allows us to attract the best and brightest from all over the world.
    Only by establishing immigration controls and ending freedom of movement will we be able to attract the high-skilled workers we need
    to contribute to our economy, our communities and our public services. There will be fewer lower-skilled migrants and overall numbers will come down. And we will ensure that the British people are always in control.

    Quote from your 2019 election manifesto. Doesn’t look as though you will do much until Brexit done.

    Deal with illegal immigrants in same way as Australia. Fingerprint them then return them all to sender.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

      The vote to leave the European Union was that and only that.

      There were no supplementary questions as to why the voter made his or her choice.

      From many comments posted here, it seems possible that the main reason for many was to cause as much displeasure as possible to the sort of British person who enjoyed the benefits of membership, irrespective of the harm that it did to the country or even to them.

      But I wouldn’t assert that as a fact, as you do.

      • NickC
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:03 am | Permalink

        Martin, I notice all you Remains keep calling the EU empire the “European Union”. Is this something you’ve been instructed to do by Remain Central to try to fool people into thinking the EU is really all warm and cuddly? Ps: there were no benefits to EU subjugation.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:50 am | Permalink

          Well spotted.

          So, for what do you think that those letters stand then?

          • NickC
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

            Enervatingly Useless?

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

            So, it’s just as well that I avoid that confusion then, isn’t it?

      • DavidJ
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 5:57 am | Permalink

        Martin, as you seem to be such an enthusiast of the EU may I suggest you would be more at home over there? For most of us the so-called benefits, whatever they were, are worth nothing when balanced against the imposition of foreign government over us, especially when that government is not democratic.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

          David, our erstwhile fellow European Union citizens are not foreign.

          Therefore rules which we made on a collaborative basis, in a limited range of areas, were neither imposed, nor foreign government over us.

          • NickC
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

            Martin, Our erstwhile fellow EU citizens are definitely foreign. By definition.

            No EU rules are made on a solely collaborative basis. That’s not how the dirigiste EU ideology works. Every rule is at least residually an imposition. Many of them have been wholly an imposition.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

            You’ll find that the people in most countries on the Mainland don’t see it that way, any more than the English generally see the Welsh or the Scots as foreign.

            It’s a British peculiarity – islands and stuff.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

            Try as much as you want with your no nations no borders nonsense Martin, the vast majority want nations and borders.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

            I’m a great believer in nations and have never said that I’m not.

            Borders are necessary too – between some nations, but not between others.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 6:35 am | Permalink

            So you want borders.
            That is a good start.
            Your next step is to decide what constitutes legal immigration.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

            I’ve never had any difficulty on that point Ed.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

            Well if you understand what legal immigration is you ought to undstand what illegal immigration is and want it stopped.

      • Original Richard
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

        Martin,

        “The vote to leave the European Union was that and only that [fix our immigration]”

        “Yes”, but only partly. The enormous benefit to us of leaving the EU is the ability to be able to influence our laws and policies (trade, fiscal, taxation, energy, environmental, foreign, military, immigration etc.) through retaining the right to elect and remove those who make these decisions.

        Remaining in the EU, where decisions are made by those we did not elect and cannot remove and hence cannot influence, is a journey into the unknown.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

          All this “we” and “our” – are you part of the legislature?

          You complain endlessly because “you” cannot do a single blind thing about all the laws that your Tory rulers impose, such as lockdowns and the wearing of masks – which the European Union could never, ever do either.

          It is, truly, comical.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

            ThecEU failed because member nations conspicuously refused to take any notice of the EU bureaucrats and went back to being individual nation states.

          • Original Richard
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

            Every few years we have an election to vote in the Parliament/government which makes our laws and policies. If a government fails to be able to govern competently or fails to implement popular policies which were in its previous manifesto it can be thrown out of office at the next election.

            There is no such equivalent election for those bureaucrats running the EU’s laws and policies.

            The EU Parliament cannot make laws.

            Perhaps you should campaign for an EU president elected by the whole (opov) of the EU?

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

            Stop worrying, Richard, the UK has left.

            It has no insulting bp MEPs, no Commissioner, no seat nor votes in the Council, and no veto!

            If you think that you could make party political, adversarial government work for twenty-seven nations, especially when it is not even necessary – since its remit is only in uncontroversial areas of law – then good luck with that.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 6:38 am | Permalink

            Sounds like the logic of a dictator there Martin.
            Best not to let the people be involved in elections for EU Commissioners and EU Presidents as it would be a nuisance as the EU is too big.

          • Original Richard
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

            Martin,

            The USA manages to achieve party political and very adversarial government with 50 quite different and autonomous states.

            But I suspect your aim is for the EU to model itself instead on the non-adversarial Chinese system of government.

    • rose
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

      As I understand it, the Australians do not allow would be illegal immigrants to claim asylum or apply for immigration in the future. We should do that too – if we ever get that far.

  21. Lifelogic
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

    She has to make if perfectly clear that no one coming in from an already in a safe place such as France will ever be allowed to stay in the UK other. Than by the proper routes. This rather than nearly all will be allowed to stay as is the case now. Otherwise more and more will risk their lives. It is very sad but one has to take a hard line that deters those attempting from doing so. She needs to be cruel to be kind but clearly she is not going to.

    • NigelE
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

      @LL
      Is there really a significant risk to lives crossing the Channel in a small boat in calm weather? Has any loss of life been reported? After all, UK & France vessels assist them all the way.

      • Yossarion
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

        Having sailed the Channel on many occasions you obviously don’t understand just how busy those shipping lanes are and how difficult it would be for someone with no knowledge to judge tide and set/ drift when crossing in front or behind these massive vessels . The main rule is if the aspect is staying the same do something because you will collide.

        • Ian Wragg
          Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

          At present with economic activity much reduced there are only about half the ships transiting the channel making it safer for the immigrants.

      • Fred H
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

        none of the drowned have made a complaint.

    • DavidJ
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:07 am | Permalink

      Indeed LL we should take a lesson from Australia. They were safe enough in France or wherever in Europe they first arrived. By definition an “asylum seeker” must take refuge in the first safe country that they enter.
      Those being allowed in are a huge cost to the taxpayer and, if of a certain religion as most are, potential members of the growing enemy within.

      If one wanted to destroy our country then mass immigration by those from an alien culture is the best way to do it without open warfare as we have seen over the years.

      We have a responsibility to defend our country in order to preserve it in a fit state for our descendants. That requires much more then stopping illegal immigration but it is a necessary start.

      • margaret howard
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

        DavidJ

        “If one wanted to destroy our country then mass immigration by those from an alien culture is the best way to do it without open warfare as we have seen over the years.”

        And we should know as that is exactly what we did to the original inhabitants of the countries we invaded and called our own.

        200 or so years we were the ‘alien cultures’ who destroyed the civilisations of America, Australia, New Zealand, Tasmania, the Caribbeans etc who had existed for thousands of years, long before we ever became ‘English’.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

          So by studying history we should realise what might happen in Europe and the UK if a sensible immigration policy us not adopted.

  22. Barbara
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    The problem is that one can’t be sure she does ‘clearly’ share this aim. Why, if so, is the government still ferrying them in and putting them up in 3, 4 and 5 star hotels via Serco, Mears Group and Readyspring Homes, who between them control different regions of the UK and receive £4 billion of taxpayers’ cash over ten years for doing so? Making platitudinous statements does not equal action.

    If ordinary people object to this on social media, the police investigate them for ‘hate crimes’ for daring to have an opinion. We have no voice in parliament. We are being treated with contempt.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

      I agree we are being treated ith contempt by this government, the media and the snowflakes community (am I still allowed to use the term ‘snowflakes’ ?)

      • Timaction
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

        Indeed hidden by the MSM media and Government until exposed by Sir Nigel.

        Reply I and others were pursuing the volume of illegal migration before NF’s expose

    • DOMINIC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

      We are now deemed undesirable in our country. There is now no one to represent us.

    • Sharon Jagger
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

      Barbara, I agree with all you say.

      Also, there are Cities of Sanctuary where, according to a Conservative Councillor, (caller to Talk Radio) migrants take priority over locals. I don’t know if these are the illegals moved on from the hotels, but nevertheless why should newcomers take priority.

      I think it’s just a big money making industry. And when we complain, the lefty woke brigade shriek so loudly, government backs down.

      • jane4brexit
        Posted August 11, 2020 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

        Boris and other so called Conservative MPs need to consider the fact that few if any of that “lefty woke brigade” voted them in, well perhaps Carrie did…

    • DavidJ
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      Judge them by their deeds, not their words, and consider the aim of globalists such as Gates, Soros and the UN itself. They no longer represent the electorate who voted them in (with a few exceptions of course).

    • BeebTax
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      +1. Did you see the Con Home article this week about the proposed law in Scotland, that would effectively make it a criminal offence if anyone finds what you say ( relating to race, sexuality or religion) offensive? That would be the death knell for free speech, north of the border. If it spread south, that would be the end of this blog and most others.

  23. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    Let’s list the attractants in this country for many who try to gain entry illegally – not genuine refugees or asylum seekers who would report to the authorities on entry anyway.

    a) a large, pre-existing community of their cultural and linguistic fellows.

    b) the scope to work undiscovered in the UK’s loosely regulated cash economy among their fellows.

    c) owing – unlike in France etc. – to the absence of an ID card system and residency register, the low likelihood of detection or of interference in their earning a livelihood. The Tories along with a few rebels prevented Labour implementing such a system.

    d) Unlike France, the UK has no ban on certain cultural garments, nor stringently controls practices such as FGM. The state also finances suitable religious schools.

    It is not our benefits system in most cases, as the clandestine cannot claim them.

    Voting Leave has made zero difference, as was explained that it would not, patiently and repeatedly.

    • NickC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

      Martin, Voting Leave has made no difference because we haven’t left yet.

      And we haven’t left yet because people like you in government and out of it have prevented us from doing so.

      Meanwhile, the illegal migrants are escaping from your EU empire. And, for that, I can’t blame them.

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

      Oh but it has made a difference. It’s thrown a right spanner in the works.

      All you had to do was slow it down a bit. Or do the feelings of the majority not count ?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

        The UK has had Tory government – against which I voted – for ten years.

        What has it to do with me?

        • NickC
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

          Not true, Martin. We’ve had 5 years of Coalition government; then nearly 5 years of minority Tory administrations where Parliament prevented many Tory policies being implemented; and only 8 months of a Tory majority government.

          • Anonymous
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:32 pm | Permalink

            We’ve had Remainers in power for 25 odd years.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

            Eight months – who would have though that anyone could make so big a mess in such a short time eh?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

            Only a mess in your eyes.
            To others it is the start of a great new independent future.

          • bill brown
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

            yes and look at the Covid mess they have left us in, second highest toll in Europe

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 6:39 am | Permalink

            We are not independent until 31st December 2020.
            Fact.

    • beresford
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

      All points in this post are true. It has to be said though that WERE we to police our borders properly to prevent illegal immigration, EU membership would still provide a route for the migrants who did settle in continental Europe to come here legally via Free Movement. Some of the more savvy countries have worked out that if they restrict things like ‘cultural garments’ the migrant population in question will up sticks and freely move to Britain.

      • rose
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

        Yes, Denmark, Holland, Sweden, and Finland have sent a lot of second and third generation people to us. The French attitude to the veil is often cited at Calais as a reason for preferring here.

    • Original Richard
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

      Martin,

      “Voting Leave has made zero difference, as was explained that it would not, patiently and repeatedly.”

      Quite the reverse!

      Because we are no longer in the EU and ruled by those we did not elect and cannot remove and hence over which we have no influence we can now (when we have finally left) start the process of electing a government influenced by our wishes on laws, trade, taxation, immigration etc..

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

        But the European Union has never had any remit over the subject of this blog – illegal immigration.

        It is, and always was, a sovereign matter for the member nations.

        So your post is off-topic and irrelevant.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

          Still denying the four freedoms of the EU exist?
          Open borders are one of them.

          Porus external EU borders means millions of people can get into the EU where they are then free to make their choice of any EU member nation to live in.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

            Wrong as ever Ed.

            Only if they gained citizenship would they have that freedom.

            Germany has granted it to but one in forty-four applicants.

            Greece’s borders are no more porous than the UK’s Kent coast. There were just more boats there, thanks to US and UK global policies.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

            Wrong one million invited into Germany recently alone.
            Many thousands arriving in Greece and Italy.
            Once in never return.
            The soon get papers sorted.
            Or arrive and make a claim for asylum.

  24. Martin Bowden
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

    But John, many have expressed their thoughts and proposals already, as you say. Is it because of the Migration Compact that Theresa May signed on our behalf without the electorates consideration?
    What are YOUR thoughts?

    • beresford
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:17 pm | Permalink

      The Compact says that mass migration is inevitable and desirable. It is hard to see how a signatory to such a document could justify turning migrants back.

    • NickC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:29 pm | Permalink

      Martin B, Indeed. We should exit from the Barcelona Declaration (1995) and the Marrakesh Declaration (2018).

  25. Clare
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    I fail to understand why this country is apparently unable to deter illegal migration from across the channel in that the so-called UK Border Force is working directly for the people smugglers; it appears that the tax payer is funding illegal immigration and it is totally unacceptable. As illegal and uncontrolled immigration decreases wages and increases rent resulting in the present housing crisis where this country is being concreted over at the behest of a giant socialist job creation scheme. Unless somebody gets a grip,and tows these people back and is prepared to suffer the outrage of the liberal establishment, law abiding tax payers in this country are being taken for fools and will vent their anger at the ballot box next time. It is absolutely outrageous and about time a Conservative government put a stop to this country as being perceived as a soft touch. It worked for the Australians, it can work in the UK too.

    • Otto
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

      The next ballot box will not help – any party will do the same, nothing.

      • Edmund Hirst
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

        I have my doubts as to whether there will be a “next ballot box”. The way the government is behaving suggests that, owing to the “Coronavirus crisis”, free elections will be postponed indefinitely. The precedent has already been set.

      • steve
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

        Otto

        Yeah I know same old system, but at least you can sling the current lot out.

    • rose
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

      The Australians, besides being rougher and readier, have the advantage of a lot of international water in which to operate. Nor do they have urban settlements both sides. The Channel is a very different proposition and the illegal immigrants know it.

      According to Maritime Law, we are responsible for them as soon as they enter our waters, and the French while they are in theirs. There is no international water in between off Calais. The French say they are being blackmailed by the young men threatening to throw the statutory woman and child overboard if they interfere with their passage. They should call this bluff and rescue them, then escort the whole lot back to France. But they don’t want to, do they? Somehow they have to be persuaded it is not in their interests to allow so many illegal immigrants into their country on their way to England.

  26. Stephen Priest
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

    Instead of putting the illegal immigrants on a coach for an indefinite say in a 4 star Hotel in Britain, why not take them back to France for a one night stay in a very cheap hotel. The French can then take it from there.

    All we are doing is enabling the illegal people smugglers.

    • margaret howard
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

      Stephen

      The days when we can unload our own problems on other countries has long gone. The former colonies refused to take them long ago. What do you propose? A return to prison hulks in Portsmouth?

      • a-tracy
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        We see you Margaret.

      • NickC
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

        Margaret H, The migrants are in France, because France let them in. That’s the secret, you see, the French are unloading their problem onto us, their former (and the EU’s current) colony.

        • bill brown
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

          NickC

          Look up the definition of colony, fist please?

        • hefner
          Posted August 11, 2020 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

          No secret, NickC, that’s Schengen.

  27. MickN
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, by not stopping this from happening we are encouraging more to come. Today I saw pictures of 3 illegal immigrants in an inflatable with no life jackets.
    I have fished in the Channel and know only too well how soon a storm can turn up and turn a calm sea deadly.
    I am sorry but it is only a matter of time before there is a real disaster and the government by it’s inactions will have to shoulder a lot of the blame.

    • steve
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:11 pm | Permalink

      MickN

      “I am sorry but it is only a matter of time before there is a real disaster and the government by it’s inactions will have to shoulder a lot of the blame.”

      Oh no, Boris will announce that he is working with our French ‘friends’ to ensure a safer migrant passage.

    • rose
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

      With the French and British vessels both hovering, as well as helicopters, they aren’t going to drown and they know it. The Channel is not the Med.

  28. agricola
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

    During the evolution of the UK there will always be people of talent we wish to encourage to come here. Equally at times of crisis in other parts of the World there will be those who need sanctuary. Idi Amin’s Uganda which our Home Secretary should know well . The growing crisis in Hongkong and our translators in Afghanistan are typical of what I have in mind.

    The above suggests permanent residence if desired. There will also be those who come because their international corporation needs them for a period. Then there are those who come as part of their education, predominantly at university level. Lastly there are those of our military allies on secondment.

    All the above is controllable, even those requiring sanctuary should apply at our nearest safe embassy, the staff of which can be trained in how to respond and investigate the applicant.

    For sure it is not acceptable to turn up on our shores unknown or to overstay a visa period. It should become clearly known from example that this will result in a return flight to their country of origen in the majority of cases.

    Then there are those who have cheated the system and almost none existent regime of discovery. They should be identified and shipped home complete with any family they may have acquired. The police, and all civil servants involved throughout government including also all those in the legal system should be very clear in what is required, and it is down to politicians to set out the legal requirements. The granting of residential status should be conditional for a period of five years within which it would be insdvisable to commit any serious crime, which would lead to deportation. Judicial discretion should be very limited.

    To make this workable we require a national identity card system for everyone resident legitimately in the UK. At present Tesco know more about their customers than do the UK government its population. It is estimated that this would produce at least two million illegals. Having such an identity would be your key to social services, the NHS, a driving licence , buying or renting a property or vehicle, etc. As an example I have to quote my residence number whenever I receive a parcel from Amazon at my door in Spain. It is never a problem , I have a card to back it up, but I can remember it just like my old service number. Lack of such identification would make it very hard for illegals to exist in the UK.

    You asked for my thoughts, they are as above, write the law, get it passed, and then implement it with compassion, but with firm resolution. It would not shut the door to the rest of the World, but might make meeting it a more agreable experience.

    • Mark
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

      You are right to refer to visa overstayers, who probably greatly outnumber boat people. We need to be much more proactive, ensuring that those who come on visas depart according to their return or onward arrangements. It is infinitely easier to remove visa overstayers when they are picked out promptly. That means US style checks.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

      It needs a government with true resolve in the face of the media

      You see it not the voters, the peers, the opposite or the lobby groups that this government fear – it’s the of the media

    • dixie
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:08 pm | Permalink

      I agree we need to look at an identity system and I would add all public services, banking and telecommunications services to the list.

      You suggest 5 years good behaviour being a condition for retaining residence, I think it should be more stringent – a person’s lifetime not just 5 years and should potentially include their children also.

  29. Ian
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

    This is all to do with Bo Jo , do you really think the P P lady has been asleep at the wheel, but she would not do this behind Boriss back on her own ?
    Are we saying she had a chat with Macron, to organise a French Naval craft, to follow them to the middle of our Channel, where our so call Border protection people would go out and bring them in.
    Who gave them that order.
    Had to have come from Boris, he certainly knew, as above.
    Farage blow the whistle weeks ago, thank God we have him.
    No one else stired , or blow the whistle ?
    Read into this as you will but it had to be from the Top ?
    And we want the other 48000 to go aswell and his resignation.
    Classic Betrayal

    • rose
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

      If Farage were PM he would be subject to the same laws and treaties and he wouldn’t break them.

      • Mark B
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:26 am | Permalink

        But he would seek either to amend them or remove us from them.

      • NickC
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

        Ros4e, Treaties can be abrogated, rather than broken.

        • rose
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

          Yes, treaties can be departed from and laws can be repealed; others can be passed. It all takes time and depends on a loyal and determined majority which will stand up to a huge amount of pressure from within and without the country. In the meantime…

  30. Nigl
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    As ever I cannot see anything other than a wish list that even if achievable will take years to negotiate to add to the time I suspect these have been already happening.

    Repeal international legislation. Wait I will just click my fingers. Return them, to where? They won’t have papers, won’t tell the truth about their background and their countries won’t have them anyway.

    Give them zero status in the U.K. so what, they are here and leaving people to starve to death? I don’t think so.

    Stop their boats. Yes I will go out with an air rifle? Rely on the French. They don’t want them and why would they help us when we are denying their fishing boats access.

    Get real. There’s the trade off. No migrants for our fish.

    Detention centres, for instance on the Falkland Islands plus fast track processing to include specialist courts plus say a payment per person to a safe country prepared to have them.

    There I go more wishful thinking.

    • beresford
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

      +1

      Moving them to the Falklands would also have the advantage of dissuading Argentina from trying to claim sovereignty over the islands.

      • hefner
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

        According to the 2016 survey, there were 3,400 residents in the Falkland Islands. So how many migrants are you planning to send there? Do the present islanders not have the same rights as British metropolitan people to get p****d off by such a proposal?

      • glen cullen
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

        +1 thats a really good idea

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

      NO migrants in our waters, NO fish fish from our waters.
      That is taking back control of our borders. Any less and Johnson will be cat food.

    • steve
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

      Nig1

      “Get real. There’s the trade off. No migrants for our fish.”

      Of course, that is not a deal, it’s called blackmail. While I fear this government is probably stupid enough to attempt selling it to electors, the look on their faces at the next election will be priceless as the shock that we ‘aint avin it’ hits them between the eyes.

      No French fishing, no migrants. It must be both.

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

      We intercept the boats and load the refugees onto a ship to do the processing, arrange onward travel for people who aren’t eligible off the ship back to their home land. They may choose to use a dinghy to go back to France who are we to stop them, it seems you don’t have to patrol your borders any longer.

  31. NigelE
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Sir JR. Why do we not have a major problem with illegal immigrants walking across the non-border between ROI and NI? (Perhaps we do, but I’m not aware of anything significant.)

    Is it because the Irish police their borders more effectively than France/Belgium?

    • Otto
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

      Perhaps the illegal immigrants think that a rubber dinghy from France to R.O.I. is a bit too far for comfort?

  32. Fred H
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

    Could the SAS be invited to have a word with the human traffickers?

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:11 am | Permalink

      Too busy. They’re on stand-by to go to Los Angeles to rescue a prince.

      • glen cullen
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

        That’s after securing the correct visa for the good old USA and allowing an additional 2 weeks covid-19 isolation period – or go the illegal immigrant route and just paddle there

      • Fred H
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

        or to prevent a prince being kidnapped?

  33. Nigl
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    During a ferociously contested elections in the 17th century opposition voters were captured and dumped, on the Ecrehous, islands belonging to Jersey, so they couldn’t vote on polling day.

    Now there’s a thought!

  34. Sir Joe Soap
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

    The fact that these people are in our waters and have no right to be there is sufficient for them to be towed back or otherwise sent back with reasonable force.

    You realise the French are using this as an insight to know what we will do with their fishing boats after December 31? They now think we will bring in their boats, fillet the fish for them, load it back on, fill their boats with fuel and wave them on their way home with a fistful of cash I guess?

    Grow some COJONES!

    • Nigl
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

      Sent back to where exactly. They are now in our waters? Just pick them up and dump them in someone else’s. You mentioned cojones. Agreed. Utter balls.

  35. RichardP
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

    We need to remove some of the incentives for the migrants to come to this country.
    Perhaps accommodation in Australian rules immigration detention centres would be more appropriate than 4 star hotels. The assessment of asylum applicants should be fast tracked with those failing to qualify being speedily repatriated.

    These new rules could be swiftly implemented under the Covid 19 emergency legislation which, hopefully, will keep the human rights lawyers at bay, just as it has enabled the Government to ride roughshod over our human rights during the last few months.

    I would be concerned if the Royal Navy was employed to push migrant boats back towards the French coast though. It would be very difficult to do this safely and it would be appalling to see an RN Captain in court on man slaughter charges for an immigrant drowned at sea. Much better for the illegal immigrants to have good reasons to avoid contact with our border patrols.

  36. Sam Vara
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    Intercept the boats using drones and fast RIBs. Tow them back to within French waters, take the engine off their boat and drop it in the sea. The problem thus remains French.

    • rose
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

      You won’t get the Navy or Border Force breaking Maritime Law like that.

    • turboterrier
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

      +1 no quarterasked or given.

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Load them onto a cruise boat that doesn’t land whilst processing. Any UK lawyer that wants to represent them goes onto the ship. Make the upper decks court rooms and training centres. Teach the migrants how to paint, clean and make food.

      • anon
        Posted August 12, 2020 at 12:17 am | Permalink

        Plenty of cruise boat capacity, to hold them pending return to France or home country.

        They should also be quarantined as a high proportion may be covid infected.

        They should not be allowed to move freely in the UK, until processed.

        Change laws ,abrogate treaties, change personnel and act on the will of the British people. Dont be surprised if people vote for others, name calling wont work. LibLabCon got us here.

  37. Sea Warrior
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

    Got enough, Sir John?

  38. UKQanon
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

    I feel Pritti Patel does care but remember she is not in control, the Establishment decide what happens and always have. The whole immigration system could be resolved if there was a true intention but it is part of the plan. Should this postion change……..??????

    Firstly we need to remove ALL incentives of the benefits system and remove the plethora of paid official “do gooders” who bend over backwards to assist these ILLEGALS. Nothing is free in life, nothing. No one gets anything for free. We all pay somewwhere along the line. The UK is known as a soft touch and that is why virtually all want to get into the UK.
    I have lived and worked overseas in West Africa and other non European countrise and one is on one’s own. No hand outs, no assistance, no interpreters, nothing and that is how it should be.

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:42 am | Permalink

      I agree about the removal of benefits. We must attack both the push and pull factors in all this.

  39. NickC
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

    1. Change the attitude within government: from social workers to ministers, illegal migrants are illegal so should not have the welcome mat rolled out, they should be put in prison – immediately.

    2. Enticements to come to the UK:
    This is absolutely fundamental – no NHS, no welfare, no free houses, no free cars, no job-seekers allowances, no schooling – that is, nothing from the tax-payer (apart from prison). No benefits for any foreigner until 15 years of income tax contributions have been made.

    3. Policing our borders:
    Turn back the boats. If France won’t accept them back stop the £6m payments (2019) to France. If they still won’t, then return one French citizen here legally for every illegal migrant.

  40. Peter van LEEUWEN
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

    In today’s press: The number of U.K. citizens emigrating to the EU has surged by 30% since Brexit, with Spain and France the leading destinations.
    I wish a few more would come to settle in the Netherlands!
    Before you try, I’m not interested in illegal migrants, just ordinary (or extraordinary) English, Scots, Welsh and N. Irish.
    From day one you can put Boris Johnson’s cycling promotion into action! 🙂

    • Fred H
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

      beer for the males, flowers for the females – – tempted anyone?

    • miami.mode
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

      Peter, are you sure that these are not just UK nationals who are seeking dual nationality? Seems easy in France, but more difficult in Spain. From the UK Gov website:-

      “Dual citizenship (also known as dual nationality) is allowed in the UK. This means you can be a British citizen and also a citizen of other countries.

      You do not need to apply for dual citizenship. You can apply for foreign citizenship and keep your British citizenship”.

      PS, you will know we are serious about cycling when we have high level roundabouts exclusively for cyclists and pedestrians as I have seen in the Netherlands.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

        @miami.mode:
        Although dual citizenship is possible in the Netherlands, it has become more difficult. I still hope that, after the transition is over, British people in the Netherlands would be allowed to keep their EU citizenship. That would allow them to travel and settle freely within the Schengen area, while remaining UK nationals.

    • NickC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

      PvL, There are around 1.2 million UK citizens living in the EU (pop 450m). There are about 3.3m EU citizens living in the UK (pop 70m). That means proportionately there are 1767% more EU people living in the UK, than UK people in the EU. So go and wave your pathetic 30% surge somewhere else.

      • bill brown
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        Peter, is talking realtive terms, does tha require you to be rude?

        • Edward2
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

          Simple straightforward facts.
          Nothing rude there.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

        @NickC: All I do is inviting some British to come and settle in the Netherlands. For the British we are still a quite welcoming nation.
        So, if you like cycling . . .

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:34 am | Permalink

      Grow up.

    • Sea Warrior
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      I see that Unilever has decided – despite Brexit – that it would rather be British than Anglo-Dutch. Shell next, I’d guess. Enjoy your few extra Remainers – those ‘Citizens of Nowhere’.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      The third most common nationality of EU nationals living in another EU country after Polish and German is actually British.

      The Brits really made good use of their Freedom of Movement while it lasted.

      • Edward2
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

        That’s wrong.
        There are far more EU nationals living in the UK

        • bill brown
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Why, don;t you actually read what Tbaulazeoro is writing ,before you comment on it?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:00 pm | Permalink

            I did.
            The point tab was trying make was about how many UK people live in the EU.
            What you failed to actually understand is more EU people live in the UK.

            Your typing is still awful bill.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:16 pm | Permalink

          “There are far more EU nationals living in the UK”

          …. divided among 27 nationalities.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

            Tabulazero – but they’re all the same to Ed and his kind.

            They’re all “foreign”.

            The British never are, of course, but simply become “expats” when living in someone else’s country.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

            The fact are correct.
            See Nick’s comments above.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 6:45 am | Permalink

            Simply about numbers Martin
            Mote EU people live here in the UK than UK people live in the EU
            Tab was wrong
            PS
            Stop your cheap slurs.

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:44 am | Permalink

      So all those Remainers have chosen to live somewhere sunny and nice. Sorry you could not provide for all their needs. And the illegal immigrants don’t want you either as they would just simply walk there.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

        My some-time neighbour is a staunch Leaver.

        He has a place in Spain, like many others there.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 6:46 am | Permalink

          Many Spanish would vote to leave the EU too.
          Given a chance.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

            The reason for that – and there weren’t that many anyway – has probably dissipated, what with Essex Man losing his Freedom Of Movement.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

            No
            There are large numbers in several EU countries who would vote leave.
            The figures are recent ones
            Look them up.

  41. Mark
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    “This is London (not Harare). The News. T0day several boats were intercepted in the English Channel and their passengers were placed aboard HMS Returner which is transporting them to Mogadishu, from where they will be dispersed to their countries of origin. In other news….”

    • NickC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

      Mark, I wish . . .

      • Mark
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

        It is no good at all that instead they keep reporting successful crossings and welcomes from the Border Force. Just an ad – please come here. You may even get a job at the BBC.

  42. Nigl
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

    I think it is time for someone with a knowledge of international law etc to inform us what is possible (and hasn’t been tried already)

    Angry brain dumps from Farage et al are not solving the problem.

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:46 am | Permalink

      No, but it is highlighting it when the government and the media would rather we not know.

  43. Anthony
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    There needs to be a general effort to deal with illegal migration. The biggest source of this is simply people overstaying their visas. There will always be illegal migration as long as we allow people into the country which we obviously want to continue to do.

    We need to
    1. Set up the residence card or similar that represents the right to access public services, rent property etc and without which it will not be possible to operate as part of normal society. Essentially this is the hostile environment but done right so that people can demonstrate their right to be here to avoid the horrors of the windrush scandal. It should be rebadged the impermeable environment.
    2. We need to enforce existing laws regarding living conditions. The government needs to provide funding to find and remove people who are living 20 to a house ie. are seeking to evade the impermeable environment.
    3. We need to enforce existing laws on working conditions to stamp out modern slavery and others who are paying less than the minimum wage. This also requires funding and not incidentally would be popular with unions and other low paid people who Must compete with sweat shops.
    4. We then need to be able to remove the illegal immigrants who are found. There are many islands around the UK. Pick one (or more than one) and hold all illegal immigrants in detention centres on this island until their right to remain in the U.K. is established or there is another country available to send them to.
    5. Meanwhile, the human rights act will interfere with this. The government must grasp the nettle and amend or repeal the HRA. Alternatively, legislation enabling the necessary actions must be set in train which expressly repudiates those parts of the HRA that would otherwise allow the courts to interfere.

    This will take time. All the more reason to get cracking.

  44. Anonymous
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

    Anyone who arrives by this method:

    – never to be made a UK citizen, ever

    – no benefits, housing, services, ever

    – no right to work legally, ever

    – no amnesty, ever

    – any young children (and they must be provably young children) arriving must be looked after but their relatives never allowed to become citizens with the above benefits of citizenship, ever.

    Why ?

    Because if anyone can be English no one is English and all the ramifications that go with it. It is deeply corrosive and destabilising of a nation and with 4 million unemployed to come and dire shortages tolerance with your useless government and your worst PM in British history (unfit physically, morally and mentally for office) will be at snapping point.

    We have yet to see the first body washed up on our shores and the campaign against ‘racist’ Britain started by the BBC and the Left – but your government will use it to shrug its shoulders and say “Well. What can we dooooo ?” because your government would rather let it happen too.

    This is NOT what you were voted in office for.

    (Just how does France get away with it. Treats foreigners appallingly and yet our Remainers tell us how sophisticated and civilised they are.)

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

      PS add to that list:

      – anyone caught without legal right to be here committing a crime to be deported immediately on serving sentence

      We cannot allow people using illegal methods of entry to be rewarded. This is causing more and more to try it on.

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      I know someone who works in the private security business. You’d be amazed at how easy it is to obtain false documents and get benefits.

      • anon
        Posted August 12, 2020 at 12:30 am | Permalink

        You think HMG does not know this?
        All JR is doing is acting like a lighting rod, they wont do anything apart from jaw moving.
        Only voting for different parties to LibLabCon may work, assuming Farage or other do not fold again.

    • NickC
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

      Anon, Generally I agree, but Boris is not the worst PM. Our dear unlamented leader Theresa May holds that accolade against all comers.

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

        Tell me that in a few months.

      • bill brown
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        let us wait and see and give it a bit more time before we make any final conclusions?

    • bill brown
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      Anonymous

      Do you actually know how many refugees or so called foreigners France took in last Year?
      Or do oyu know so much that we can trsut all your conclusions about how the French treat all foreigners?

      • hefner
        Posted August 11, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

        According to Le Monde, 20/03/2019, in 2017 France welcomed 92k people from other European countries, 96k from Africa, 46k from Asia, 28k from Americas+Oceania. Over the last few years between 25,000 and 28,000 people claim asylum in France, but depending on the year only 23 to 25% of them were actually granted asylum (6,000 to 7,000 depending on the year).

        There are a few thousand people around the North coast of France (Boulogne, Calais, Dunkerque) trying to cross one way or another to the UK. According to some French newspapers that investigated what the ‘pull’ of the UK could be, the main reasons are 1/ the English language, most of these people have a minimum working of English and very rarely a knowledge of any of the other EU27 languages, 2/ the absence of any compulsory identity paper in the UK whereas, e.g., France and Germany have such requirement, which requires a registration of some kind, 3/ relatives already present in the UK likely to provide ‘support’, 4/ some past family history of links with the Britisk Empire.

        Finally Dublin III does not force people to require asylum in the first European country they arrive, otherwise Greece, Italy, Hungary would have had to keep the new arrivals. In proportion, fewer people come directly to France. Schengen allows people to circulate within the EU, which explains why some are gathering in Northern France.

  45. Peter van LEEUWEN
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

    The Dublin convention is EU law, not applicable in a no-deal Brexit UK as from 2021.
    You wanted to make your own laws, so why don’t you?

    Reply I am proposing our own U.K. law so we apply Dublin to the EU,unilaterally if necessary

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      That fishing deal is looking a bit shaky.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:17 am | Permalink

      With which army ?

      • NickC
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

        Do we need an army to pass our own law in our own Parliament? Which “army” is going to oppose it, do you think?

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      Peter are in still under the EU law or not?
      I thought we could only have our own laws from then the withdrawal agreement stops, please clarify.

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

        @a-tracy: I may not have expressed myself clearly.
        The point is that the Dublin Convention applies to EU members, it does not apply to third countries as far as the EU is concerned.
        It will be difficult to make claims to the EU that it applies to you, once you enter third country status. Until end of 2020 the UK is probably still viewed as a member state.

        We simply legislate to say we will return all asylum seekers coming from a safe EU country. that’s what independent countries can do !

  46. Andy
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

    The solution is education. Education of the Faragists.

    Because when you take away all the hard right nonsense it is much easier to see the solutions to these problems.

    Firstly, pulling up the drawbridge – Brexit – was never going to work. Those determined to come were always going to get around it.

    Secondly, refugees are a global problem. Telling France it is its problem, or demanding they be sent back to Italy or Greece or wherever does not help. Those countries all have people who think like you and they don’t want to deal with the problem either.

    Thirdly, we need perspective. This is a few thousand people. That sounds like a lot but considering the size and population of this country it is a negligible number. Imagine – 660,000 migrants would be the equivalent of 1% of our population. This year there may be 7 to 8,000 Channel migrants. So a population increase of 0.01%. In an average full football stadium you might find one Channel migrant. Perhaps two. Good luck identifying them.

    Fourth, there are no short-term fixes. The long term fix is to sort out the places which create refugees. This means stopping selling arms which prolong and worsen conflicts and it means proper international aid to help poorer countries develop. Levelling up the world is the solution. That does not mean us levelling down. It means helping others up. And there are already many spectacular success stories.

    Finally, it means stopping things that will make migrant crises worse. Climate change is likely to cause the biggest refugee crises the world has ever seen. And you can continue with your greencrap stance or you can understand that if you do not tackle climate change now our country will be dealing with millions of climate refugees in the not to distant future. You might not like wind farms, solar panels and electric cars but your alternative is a couple of million Africans. You pick.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

      Yes, to the Right a few hundred crossing the Channel is a huge number, but seventy thousand excess deaths because of covid19 are unnoticeable.

      That’s rather telling, I think.

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

        Martin

        You want a cratered economy and the abolition of national identity.

        This will kill a lot of people and is rather telling, I think.

        Not for the first time the Left has delivered cratered economies and mass death. (The CCP in this instance.)

        • bill brown
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

          Anonymous,

          Both right and left wing regimes have creted mass deaths, so what you you really on about?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

            Left wing regimes killed 100 million in the 20th century.

      • Anonymous
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:30 am | Permalink

        So the people escaping the EU in little rubber boats.

        Are they Leavers or Remainers do we think ?

        Rather telling…

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      For goodness sakes Andy are you honestly trying to say that Britain doesn’t help out other nations like Afghanistan with aid and protection? That we aren’t already one of the biggest aid contributors both by government aid and by personal aid through the UK charity sector? Oxfam, The Red Cross, Children in Need, Comic Relief, RNLI all sending billions to poorer nations, you are taking the p*** out of us, slating Britain in every post and I’ve had enough of you. You ignore the billions sent to Jordan and the other Countries to help Syrians, how exactly do you propose we do more in Syria? Somalia? Iran or Iraq?

      6000 is not an insignificant number of refugees in six months who arrive with nothing and can’t work. We are about to lay of millions of people through a lack of work, I take it you and your family aren’t at risk of this, well think on about the people that are who will require benefits after a life time’s work in the UK and because the benefits pie has to be shared out more there isn’t anything like what they need left so we have to create food banks.

      What are we being threatened with exactly in your last sentence, if we don’t accept the global new world agenda they are going to send a million Africans with nothing to the UK and there is nothing we can do about it because what exactly? Theresa May signed up for it, well Boris can sign us back out of it.

    • Anonymous
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      We didn’t need educating to realise that invading and destabilising Iraq (by a Remainer) was a very bad idea – nor the similar destabilisation of Libya (again by a Remainer) nor did we need educating that the Arab *Spring* (as celebrated by the Remain BBC) was nothing but the opening scene of a snuff movie.

      All of this – including Brexit – is the fault of Remainers.

      I’d say the PPE scandal is too – barely three months of a Leave (so-called) government and a virus hits with the PPE cupboard bare.

      Who was in charge since the SARS outbreak but Remainers ?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

        In what way was GW Bush a “remainer”?

        The UK’s role was very secondary, and the usual in any arrangement with the US.

    • Edward2
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      Which translates to doing nothing until you have made the world perfect.
      Meanwhile allow illegal immigration.
      Watching as the current numbers steadily increase as people realise what your policy is.

    • Original Richard
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

      Andy,

      These illegal immigrants are NOT refugees but economic migrants who have PAID the criminal gangs large sums of money to bring them illegally into the UK. They are NOT being trafficked.

      Unfortunately immigration into the UK is driven by the corporate establishment elites wanting to bring cheap labour into the country just as their 16th and 17th century equivalents shipped Africans across the Atlantic to work on their farms.

      The EU has facilitated this.

    • NickC
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

      Andy, If you take away all your hard-left Remain nonsense it is much easier to see the solutions to these problems.

      Leave works for the other 165 nations in the world, so why do you suppose it uniquely cannot work for the UK?

      Foreign aid has been proven to make countries poorer and more corrupt. Removing all foreign aid, and trading with these third world countries decently – instead of exploiting them as the EU does – would solve many of the problems.

      And far from global warming causing a refugee crisis, it has been beneficial by increasing food production.

      • bill brown
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

        Nick C

        Does tha mean tha ll Remain nonsense is all ahrd left ? or do oyu ahe another definition for the rest?

        As I have difficulty in seeing the correlation you are presenting, kindly explain?

        • Edward2
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

          Problems with your keyboard again then bill?

  47. NickC
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

    JR, At a Council meeting the (Labour) Council leader wrung his hands saying they’d done everything they could to save money. He rejected mine and others suggestions, which would have saved the Council money, out of hand.

    Essentially, he did not want to listen. I am sorry, but your government does not want to listen either. That’s the real issue – your government actually doesn’t want to stop illegals, still less legal migration.

    As you say, “we don’t believe you” (the government).

    • Mark B
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:49 am | Permalink

      This is what I have always found with Lefities – There way or no way !

  48. glen cullen
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

    The BBC reporting at 6pm news today that ”thank god the migrants at Dover are now save”

    Where they unsave in France

  49. agricola
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

    It is now reported that the Royal Navy are to be involved. What are their rules of engagement. I suspect that they will just increase the size of the hospitality reception committee. There is talk of greater cooperation with the French. Question, is it in the interests of France to stop the exit from their territory. Hard though it may sound I think we should start flying them back to their African or other Middle Eastern origins. That is the only action that will send the right message.

  50. Adam
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Laws exist to be enforced, or serve no purpose.

    The Home Secretary has advisers we pay to provide a quality service.

    Does Priti Patel not know what to do, or has not received enough effective ideas from those specialists and many others?

    Does she need our advice and guidance?

    What useful purpose does she serve?

  51. Pud
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

    As it stands, an illegal immigrant from France will either successfully reach England in their boat or will be picked up by the UK and transported here, so either way they achieve their objective. The illegals are not asylum seekers as not one of them is fleeing persecution in France. They must be removed from the UK otherwise their criminality is rewarded and encourages others. Returning them to France is unfortunately not a realistic option as France doesn’t want them and is colluding with them by escorting them into UK waters. I suggest identifying at least one country who, in return for some of our foreign aid budget, can provide safe and secure accommodation for the illegals. If paying smugglers doesn’t work people will stop doing it.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

      If indeed the French have been complicit in anyway even by absence of action we must treat the French with equal force and equal contempt

      • hefner
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        Pud, aren’t we wanting to cut the foreign aid budget?

        GC, I guess, pulling your tongue to the French customs officer next time you go there, should really show the strength of your contempt to the whole French administration.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

          Why does pulling your tongue require funding?

        • Pud
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

          We certainly shouldn’t have the stupid virtue-signalling law linking foreign aid to GDP.

  52. David Brown
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

    The People Traffickers are outside the UK and the UK has left the EU with no deal so seeking out Traffickers is far more difficult.
    It was much easier to agree protocols with France when we was part of the EU now we are isolated.
    No matter what UK legislation is in place it requires the EU to accept the return of migrants and that is a big ask.
    Personally I don’t think any thing can be done to stop migrants entering the UK

    • rose
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

      Nonsense. all the time we were in the EU this was a running sore. It still is and we don’t finally leave till Dec 31st. The Dublin Agreement is not honoured and that is the EU rule.

    • NickC
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

      David Brown, The UK pays good British tax-payers’ money to France to stop migrants. The French have failed. The money should stop – now. The French should be told we will turn all boats back, so any mishap will be France’s fault for not stopping the boats setting off.

      • bill brown
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

        NickC

        Interesting suggestions, but let us say the boats went teh other way, do you think we are capable of stopping them all as well?

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      So don’t EU agreements and treaties apply to the UK right now David? Let’s be clear about this, what rules are we currently under?

      • Tabulazero
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:46 am | Permalink

        You are under EU rules until December and then the floodgates will open as the French will wash their hands of what happen next.

        The people of Calais will finally give a sigh of relief and wish the best to the people of Dover who will suddenly realize that their government has done absolutely nothing to fight illegal immigration for years and preferred to keep their problem on the French side.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

          Just turn back the dingies.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:10 pm | Permalink

            and what makes you think France will accept illegal immigrants from the UK ?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

            They did once so why not again?

  53. Paul Freedman
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

    Illegal immigration is the result of organised crime. The criminal traffickers involved need to be deterred from their criminal enterprise upfront. That means heavy fines / imprisonment / societal labour such as cleaning off graffiti, cleaning chewing gum off pavements, stripping beach railings etc for all those involved. It’s easy to detect them as you only need to interview the illegal immigrants. Let’s be humane, understanding and forgiving with the illegal immigrants and do what we can to help them as their crime is understandable but let’s use their information to identify the criminals and come down hard on those criminal gangs so we can deter them from operating anymore and so we can resolve this crisis

    • Original Richard
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

      Paul,

      The illegal immigrants coming across the Channel have PAID criminal gangs large sums of money to enter the country illegally. They are criminals themselves. They have NOT been “trafficked”.

      • Paul Freedman
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

        I did acknowledge their ‘crimes’ and thus, by definition, they are criminals too. The solution I was suggesting however was to get them to inform the British authorities how they came to be here. They did not just turn up here from Eritrea, Yemen, Iraq etc on their own initiative. As you say, they paid criminal gangs to facilitate their illegal migration here. If you break the gangs you solve the problem. Eg did we have this problem 25 years ago? Of course not but that was not for the lack of will by the potential illegal migrants, it was for the lack of assistance. Now they are more assisted than ever before. So let’s get them to inform on the gangs and have the gangs punished very hard and we will solve this problem by both detection and deterrence.

  54. Christine
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    1) Stop giving foreign aid to any country that refuses repatriation of its citizens.
    2) Use linguists to identify where people originate from. We know people’s origin can be pinpointed to a region of a few square miles.
    3) Refuse asylum to anyone who has arrived in our country illegally.
    4) Stop any boats before the halfway point and take them back to France.
    5) Trace who is buying these dinghies and charge them with people trafficking. I assume our border force destroy the ones that land here so there must be a busy trade in purchasing new boats.
    6) Withdraw from the UN Global Compact For Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration. Theresa May should never have been allowed to sign this without discussing it with the British Public.
    7) Anyone refusing to give the correct details of their country of origin should be detained indefinitely for contempt of court.

    The population in Africa and Asia is growing at an alarming rate. This influx will never stop until our country has been destroyed and they have no better life to come to. We owe it to our descendants’ to protect the place we call home.

    Why is the SERCO contract for 10 years if there is any intention of fixing this problem? The British public are totally fed up with the weak Government we have in place. Do something about it. Our MPs are elected to represent us not illegal economic migrants washing up on our shores. So many of our own people are suffering at present and you waste our hard-earned money lavishing luxuries on others.

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      5) exactly Christine, These boats are specialist items, who is selling them and delivering them to Calais. It’s easy to see the maker as each vessel lands.

      • ChrisS
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 10:59 am | Permalink

        All the boats and engines have the marine equivalent of VIN numbers so are completely traceable back to the dealer.

        The French should be encouraged to prosecute every business that sells and everybody who buys a boat or engine that is used by refugees to cross the channel for aiding and abetting people trafficing.

        • a-tracy
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

          Why do we need the French to prosecute, why can’t the British government prosecute, we’re still in the ECJ aren’t we at the moment, best get our moneys worth.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

            Because the ECJ does not deal with this kind of cases.

        • rose
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

          If I had to guess who is making them I would say the Chinese.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

      3) so you want the British to stop boats in French waters with no jurisdiction. This practice has a name. It is called piracy.

      Good luck with that especially given the state of the RN these days.

      • Edward2
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

        Ridiculous reply.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

          Ridiculous state of the RN these days.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

            No the Royal Navy is an excellent and brave service.
            Quite capable of sorting out a few dingies launched by expolititive criminal gangs.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:44 am | Permalink

            The RN has had to undergo years of cuts dictated by the Treasury.

            No issue with the men and women serving in it.

            But what do you expect when you do not give the tools the service need ?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

            It was the years of Blair and Brown who made big defence cuts.
            Blame them

    • ChrisS
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      All immigrants trying to get to Australia by sea are sent to offshore detention centres on foreign soil and have to apply for asylum from there. We should implement a similar scheme here, As almost all our illegals are young, male economic migrants, very few would ever be accepted for resettlement in the UK.

      Thanks to Australia’s very effective policy, attempts to get into the country illegally by sea have dropped to insignificant levels. We would undoubtedly have similar success here.

      Ironically these offshore Australian detention centres and managed by UK-based company, Serco ! The expertise to deal with this problem is therefore already here in the UK and could be put into practice immediately.

      The Australian system is the only policy that has been proven to work.

      • Stephen O
        Posted August 13, 2020 at 11:43 am | Permalink

        Exactly right! We should follow the Australian policy. Our large foreign aid budget and the ‘soft power’ we hear it gives us should be put to the test to secure detention facilities on foreign soil (west Africa?).

        It should be perfectly possible to provide facilities which are very safe, comfortable yet vastly less desirable than France. If these offshore facilities were what lay at the end of a trip across the channel then the flow across the channel would drop to insignificant levels as with Australia. And there would be very little need to use these facilities.

    • Annette Bates
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 11:34 am | Permalink

      First and foremost is to stop the pull factor.
      How are you ever going to stop this when the message going back is – Come. Make it & you’ll be treated better than the host population. You will be put up in 4/5 * hotels & treated like a visiting dignatory with VIP trips. You’re basically free to do what you want & the chance of you being sent back is virtually zero. The British are stupid & easy to con.

      Meanwhile the Govt led deliberate destruction of our economy & small businesses, for an unyet isolated virus with a survival rate of 99.96%, continues apace with its psyop. Millions will be out of work & many more made homeless. The only people paid through this ‘crisis’ were the so-called public servants, who do not pay tax, as their income is paid for via taxes on the private sector.

      Until the pull factor is fixed & drastic action taken it will continue.
      Remove our signature from the UN Compact for Migration.
      Remove our signature from UNCHR.
      Remove the lifestyle choice of benefits for life.
      Offshore a few of the now unused Cruise ships as holding areas for rapid processing.
      Strictly enforce illegal entry = ban for life.
      Destruction of id is an intent to defraud. Those without id will be sent to a remote island with minimal facilities from which they can declare that they wish to be repatriated.

      • ChrisS
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

        All perfectly true, Annette.

        Well Said.

        We truly are made to look fools by the treacherous Liberal Lefties that ruthlessly exploit Human Rights legislation to support and encourage young, male economic migrants to come to the UK illegally.

    • NickC
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

      Christine, Well argued.

  55. steve
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    JR

    You say EU countries are safe. Well, I heard that the French had cut off electricity and water to at least one of their migrant camps, thus presumably giving more incentive to come to the UK.

    Might I suggest the problem here is with the French, who rather than return the migrants to their previous country see it as easier to use our island as a dumping ground for that which they do not want. They’ve been taking the piss out of our country like this for decades.

    We need a government with the decency to give the cross channel migrants medical assistance and water etc, and then send them back to France.

    I don’t see this as much to do with people traffickers, more to do with the fact that we have governments kowtowing to the French.

    I suggest the current government starts sending migrants back, and tells the French it is their problem not ours. If that is not possible, then look forward to electoral defeat as we will show no mercy at the ballot box on this issue.

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:12 am | Permalink

      Steve – stop buying French goods – stop travelling there – we need direct action! They think they don’t give a fig about the Brits well if our Government won’t or can’t do anything then like the French the British need to take action of our own.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

        I can confirm that the French absolutely do not give a fig as to what the British think.

        It was already the case when the UK was still a member of the EU. Today it is even worse. A brief mention in the back pages of the shenanigans between the Cambridges and the Sussexes is all you get in terms of coverage… a yes and the record number of British nationals asking for a French passports.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

          The other day you said the French were our EU partners.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

            “Were” is the important word here.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

            So in just a few days things have switched.
            Ridiculous.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

            You left the European Union in January 2020.

            Do you understand the concept of past tense ?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

            Yes
            Do you understand content of the Withdrawal Agreement?

        • anon
          Posted August 12, 2020 at 12:51 am | Permalink

          Remember London is the 6th biggest city in France.
          A number of relationships may need some protection to be able to move home with partner at right time.
          Seem sensible as the French can be sometimes err French at times.

  56. ian
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    Illegal immigration is the second biggest employer after the gov itself bigger than the NHS and is well known by nearly all officials including john.
    It’s the biggest scandal ever of its type in the world and one day it will be breaking news.

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      ‘ One day it will be breaking news’

      No it won’t Ian we have a public broadcaster who is supposed to keep us informed at our expense or we go to prison who is keeping shtum.

      Our government must have agreed to do this with France And the EU, otherwise there would have been gun ships turning around these boats, these people could have weapons, bombs, diseases like TB (that we don’t vaccine against now) or Covid and we just mix them in without a thought. Perhaps we should hire an old large cruise boat and put them all on that, they have to cater and clean up after themselves instead of putting on waiting service and cleaners for them and then they have the audacity to stab and kill people because their 4* treatment wasn’t good enough in Glasgow –

  57. formula57
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

    Whilst migrants view channel crossings as a successful route to UK residency, they will continue to come.

    Accordingly, whatever detective and preventative measures are now made, they need to include DNA tests of all such illegal attempted entrants and a public ruling that they will never be permitted lawful entry to the UK no matter their future circumstances. Provision needs be made too to avoid all but a brief stay in the UK for those apprehended here.

    As for international law, the Government must make clear it is making it through its fresh preventative actions. (Clearly, the international community having no legislature, new law is developed by practise.)

  58. Everhopeful
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

    WHY are you allowing illegal immigrants to breach our borders?
    Is this something you can not stop?
    Or something you have no wish to stop?
    Why did you imprison us in our houses yet leave the borders open?
    I think we, the public, deserve to know the truth about this apparent dereliction of duty.
    So we can act accordingly at the next General Election.
    Assuming there is one.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

      Sorry..
      That is addressed to PP.

      • rose
        Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:02 pm | Permalink

        As I understand it, she did want to shut the borders but the Foreign Secretary, cognizant of several million British passport holders abroad, wanted them open and prevailed.

        She seems different from other Home Secretaries of late in that she really does want to control immigration and cut crime. On illegal immigration she is hamstrung by the laws and treaties to which we are subject. In the absence of French co-operation we have to get those changed or come out of them. She can’t do that on her own.

        • a-tracy
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:05 am | Permalink

          If the government won’t deal with France then the British public needs to sanction France.

        • glen cullen
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

          My research has concluded that there is nothing in law nor treaty that restricts nor hinders the Home Secretary in returming immediately any illegal immigrant

          • rose
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

            Immigration lawyers and judges, judicial review, appeals, Supreme Court… all rely on the Geneva Convention, the ECHR, the Human Rights Act, and their own EU style activism.

            Maritime Law prevents on the spot action as while in French waters the French are responsible for saving them and taking them back to Calais; and while in British waters we are responsible for saving them and taking them on to Dover. Once there they claim asylum and the aforementioned take over.

            Unless the French are prepared to take them back themselves, we are stuck with them and so would Farage be. Until we can get the law and the treaties changed. That requires a steadfast Parliamentary majority to see it all through in the face of mighty opposition from the media, politicians, and the world. The Australians stood up to all that. Are we capable?

        • glen cullen
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

          The conventions and laws say, you should attempt rescue and/or alert others to rescue any vessel in distress. If people are rescued you should disembark them at the first safe harbour of opportunity.

          We can therefore tow a broken vessel or return people back to France if we decide to go straight there. No law says you have to return to your home port. If a ferry travelling to France picked up people it would continue to its destination i.e France

          • Fred H
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

            but they don’t need rescuing – they might be terrorists armed to the gunnels. Arrest and send back to French waters.

          • rose
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

            Salvini showed it is possible for the French to refuse to admit them.

  59. Trav
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

    Priti Patel said way back in January of this year “When there is an incentive people will find ways to get here whether its in lorries, small boats or other means. If they know they are going to be promptly returned they will stop coming”. The incentives are still too great, they’re now being housed in luxurious 4 and 5 star hotels. Its beyond belief how UK taxpayers are being taken for fools. A national pandemic and she still doesn’t have them promptly returned – absolutely shameful. Let her reflect on her statement and DO IT or get out of the job she’s failing on.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

      I am incensed by the inaction of PP but more annoyed knowing in a few days it will be reported that she is having more serious discussions with the French

      • a-tracy
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

        Let’s not just blame PP for this, she will be hand strung, she must tell us all what is tying her hands from action. No point making serious noises after the Calais camp is here and France is empty!! Until the next batch.

        If we don’t start turning boats around BEFORE they enter our water it seems France can just dump all their problems on to us, ha ha ha – well put them all on a train and send them back. They are economic migrants if they’re coming from France not asylum seekers.

        • glen cullen
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

          concur

  60. M Davis
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

    … The fact that these people are in our waters and have no right to be there is sufficient for them to be towed back or otherwise sent back with reasonable force. …

    … Grow some COJONES! …

    Exactly, but is anyone listening?!

  61. Iain Gill
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 7:35 pm | Permalink

    There is no will or intention to limit or reduce migration, legal or illegal by any of the main two parties. Since mass immigration was initiated by the Blair government, this has been the case and remains so. For 20 years they have lied and dissembled.
    This from priti patel just carries on the tradition.

  62. Joseph Lakanal
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

    1. Set up a tribunal in Dover to determine asylum status and require same-day decision-making.
    2. Pass a law stating that anyone coming from a safe country such as France is liable to immediate deportation and any appeal must be conducted from the country of departure.
    3. Make it clear that a successful asylum claim means permanent debarment from citizenship or voting rights (this is where we went wrong in the 1970s, creating a tame constituency for Labour).
    4. Actually deport these people – that is the real scandal.

    • DavidJ
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:23 am | Permalink

      Too much like common sense for most in government.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted August 10, 2020 at 3:35 pm | Permalink

        To much like breaching UN resolutions.

        • a-tracy
          Posted August 11, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

          What UN resolutions, this doesn’t appear to affect France does it?

  63. Arthur Wrightiss
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    There are some innovative suggestions here to deal with the illegal economic migrants.
    Deep down I suspect most will know that absolutely nothing positive will be done to stop the current taxi service arranged by Border Farce. No real action will be taken , much hot air will be expended, and much wringing of hands. Will no body in the Government find the where with all to actually DO SOMETHING.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

      Sadly I agree with your comments – nothing will be done because this government doesn’t see the activity of illegally crossing the channel as a crime

    • miami.mode
      Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:20 pm | Permalink

      Mostly correct there, Arthur, and the vast majority of “solutions” seem to transcend some sort of UK law or human right.

      One of the few that appears almost workable is to give a large bung to a foreign country to accept them whilst their applications are scrutinised, but of course this would have to be in Africa or Asia in much the same way that western nations send their waste for “recycling”.

  64. Russ Parkinson
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

    Choose an uninhabited island in Scotland and send all illegal migrants there. Compared to the money already being spent it would be relatively quick and inexpensive to build prefabricated accommodation and keep them their until until their applications could be evaluated. The midges in summer and rain and cold in winter would be a discouragement and would prevent individuals disappearing out of the system. The government’s failure to robustly address the problem is unacceptable, embarrassing and encourages others to attempt the repeated crossings

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:34 am | Permalink

      Russ +1

      That’s long been a favourite of mine — until the status of refugees was warped to make sure they went to the top of the pile by UN treaties, they were treated fairly.

      We should be putting our own first, and devising solutions that will stem the tide of economic immigrants

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

      Are there uninhabited Islands in Scotland with dwellings already. Previous military camps with water and electricity?

      • Fred H
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

        a Scottish winter, porridge and haggis that will persuade them to ask to be sent back.

        • glen cullen
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 8:04 am | Permalink

          and a Scottish summer with midge fly

  65. Tabulazero
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

    It’s not France’s job to solve the UK’s immigration problems which has been going on for years.

    • a-tracy
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

      It was France’s immigration problem before covid – convenient that!

      It will stop once all 6000 from the Calais dirty, diseased encampment according to c4 news last year is here.

      We have been taken for fools.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

        It was France’s immigration problem before Brexit in part due to the Dublin convention and the necessity to play nice with your European neighbors.

        Now the UK is out and not a party anymore. All bets are off.

        Enjoy your refugee camps and the crime & insecurity and drain on public resources that comes with it.

        If the people of Calais have had to put up with that for years as the British government did absolutely nothing to tackle illegal immigration in the UK, so can the people of Dover.

        • a-tracy
          Posted August 11, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

          So you’re saying France doesn’t have to ‘play nice’ now? Please confirm so that we are no longer held to rules of ‘nice play’

      • Fred H
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

        they aren’t going to ease the camp’s dreadful conditions – it encourages the poor people to risk life on the sea.

        • hefner
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

          … to finally reach a free country, out of the clutches of the EU, with broad sunlit uplands on the horizon.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

            Indeed hef.
            Yet they seem desperate to keep risking their lives to leave the EU and get to the UK.
            Despite your sneering at our country.

          • Fred H
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

            by comparison with the EU countries they travelled through – that must be a fact Hefner!

  66. rose
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

    We should also deprive the Blairite human rights industry of its lucrative earnings. Until we do, they are going to go on preventing us from policing our borders.

    A new Asylum Act which could override the updated 1951 Geneva Convention on Refugees, the ECHR, and Maritime Law, sounds a tall order but must be achieved. How to get the eighty seat majority to act as one is the bigger problem.

  67. turboterrier
    Posted August 8, 2020 at 10:29 pm | Permalink

    Organise a control room to monitor by drones the Frech coast and track these craft as they leave the beaches. Stop them in International waters and turn them around.. These craft do not carry unlimited fuel so trying to avoid capture will stop them from completing the crossing due to insufficient fuel. It is too late to intercept them in British waters. Like during the Battle of Britain in 1940 our border forces can be directed to targets and intercept them. Do not give them assistance by taking them on board just harass them till their fuel runs out and then notify the French forces to tow them back to shore. Once the word gets around a lot of people will reconsider the cost effectiveness of such a journey. This country must surely have the where with all to be able to monitor the French coast and keep the authorities fully informed of the situation.

    For those trying to use road transport enforce the punishment for trafficking. Seizure of the vehicle and trailer , all goods carried and all the drivers personal assets. Once this country is displaying a no tolerance mandate against trafficking in any shape or form will the boat crossing and using vehicles stop.

    No more words just straightforward action , no political speech and promises just basic actions which the taxpayers can see and understand.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

      Let the people of Dover enjoy what the people of Calais have had to put up with for years while the British government did absolutely nothing and hid behind the Dublin convention.

      Who would have thought Brexit would hold so much upside for the French ?

      • Edward2
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

        No
        Let’s stop illegal immigration.

        You do believe in the rule of law?

  68. DavidJ
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    My proposal would be to base a new system on the Thai one. I have worked there on a number of occasions and always required a work permit with reporting to immigration every 3 months whilst in residence. That required me to prove that I would have the funds to maintain myself and, if necessary, my family.
    People go on holiday with a short term tourist visa obtained either before travel of at the border. There is no NHS to sponge off either so most people have insurance although treatment can be obtained for retired Thai nationals at low cost.
    There are routes to nationality but expensive and time consuming. All in all a ready made example for “our” government.

    • Barry
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      And try telling the Thais that they must change this and that to accommodate the sensitivities of farang.

  69. Sea Warrior
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    I’m just dipping into and out of Neil Sheehan’s magnificent ‘Bright Shining Lie’, which describes how South Vietnam was lost, largely from the perspective of an advisor, John Paul Vann. For the last couple of days I’ve been reading about the Battle of Ap Bac, an early victory for the VC over the ARVN, before the arrival of American ground forces. Why mention this? Because the battle seems to have strong parallels with the Battle of Dover. The VC – evil, but determined and one-step ahead of their enemies – are the people-traffickers. The ARVN – venal, play-fighters, with no will to win – are the British government. The American advisors – knowing what needs to be done, screaming into the radios, demanding some action, and not getting it – are us, the poor British public. The Battle of Ap Bac (whether studied in print or on Wiki) makes for a thoroughly depressing read – just like the news coming in from the Battle of Dover. If the government wants to win, then it needs to start listening.
    And please, no spoilers: I haven’t finished the book!

  70. Bryan Harris
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    One thing that PM May did with no discussion that I could perceive, was to sign up to 2 UN treaties that gave special privileges to immigrants/ refugees — THIS MUST BE REVOKED
    Never mind what the intention was – the reality is that immigrant offenders are treated with kid gloves — THE TREATIES HAVE WARPED APPLICATION OF JUSTICE.

    Those in authority use the treaties to penalise against native Britons!

    The subject of UN treaties needs to be further explored to identify where our political justice gets defiled.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

      wise words indeed – I’d go further I believe we should resign from the UN until it is reformed

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

        glen +

        I agree – The UN is now unreformable — It has gone well beyond it’s original scope, and now tries to impose it’s irrational socialism on us….

        We certainly should leave the UN, and that will make no difference at all in how the UN allegedly protects the vulnerable – they’ve failed in this for years.

  71. A.Sedgwick
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:34 am | Permalink

    Once again we can thank Nigel Farage for relentlessly bringing this coverup to the front pages. You really could not make this up – next they will be touring PoW.

    The French are the French, for years they have not forced these people to register in France or be deported in the hope they would get to England and many have. They are not remotely trying to stop these ribs, quite the reverse.

    The EU are complicit, so let’s stop paying any more money to Brussels and stop this farce of free trade talks.

    Practically ship all these illegals to Northern Ireland and bus them to Dublin.

    • Tabulazero
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

      You’ve stopped paying to the EU already and it is the UK and not the EU that asked for these trade negotiations to be opened.

      You have to get into your head that the UK is now a third country for the French or the EU. It has no leverage.

      Last I checked, the UK was not a war torn country. Asylum seekers can perfectly settle there. It’s safe.

      • Edward2
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

        Wrong yet again.
        We are still paying into the EU.

        • glen cullen
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:54 pm | Permalink

          …and paying until 31st Dec and beyond

      • a-tracy
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

        You are wrong Tabulazero, we’ve not left the EU rules and regs yet this is why PP must act quickly, she then needs to organise how we will deal with this issue from January 2021 with prison ships, no landing, no holding on line whilst processing, no housing, no benefits, shared accommodation on a ship is much better than a tent without facilities in France and they get away with their mistreatment of immigrants, living under their road underpasses, begging in Paris and in the dirt at Calais and other points.

        We must seriously consider how we will proceed if France remains a hostile neighbour who can’t police their own borders and want to pass their problems on to others.

        • Tabulazero
          Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

          Wait… because you think that the fact these people want to claim asylum in the UK should be France’s problem ?

          That’s funny.

          There is no obligation for an asylum seeker to make his or her claim in the first safe country he or she enters.

          You are confusing the issue with the Dublin protocol which only applies among EU members… and guess what ?… The UK just left.

          Did not see that one coming, did you ?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

            They are already safe in France.

          • a-tracy
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

            Tabulazero i keep being told on here that we are still stuck under all the EU rules and regulations as we are in transition and paying into the EU until the New Year is this incorrect?

            They are not asylum seekers, they have not left a Country that is threatening them, they were not in threat to their life or lifestyle.

            We should send them back into France on the Eurostar.

      • Fred H
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

        I wouldn’t wander about in ‘downtown’ Cardiff on a Saturday night.

  72. David Cooper
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    It is likely that at least some of the illegal immigrants on the boats will be carrying mobile phones. We may reasonably ask whether it is current policy to confiscate their phones upon arrival so that they can be stripped for data that might help confirm the country of origin and the identity of the smugglers, so as to assist not only in swift repatriation (ooh, there’s a pig overhead) but also in cutting off the snakes’ heads.

    • Alan Joyce
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

      Dear Mr. Redwood,

      @David Cooper,

      A good suggestion but I suspect that as soon as they realised that their phones might ‘give them away’, they would toss them into the Channel along with their passports. In any event, I am sure that as well as providing a taxi service across La Manche and a coach service to a 4* hotel, it would not be beyond the wit of our political establishment to provide them with a new phone courtesy of the taxpayer.

      I have said this before on this website and I will say it again. The trouble with all of this is that our politicians are now so cowed by fear of being labelled racist that they are prepared to sacrifice fundamental principles for fashionable approval.

      They dare not do anything other than say we are tackling this with our European ‘friends’ so terrified are they of upsetting ‘the status quo’. They say the problem is ‘complex’ which is ‘doublespeak’ for ‘oo err, that’s a bit too difficult to tackle’.

      Therefore, they will do nothing other than stick their heads in the sand and keep their fingers crossed for stormy weather.

      • David Cooper
        Posted August 9, 2020 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

        Thanks and I agree entirely, especially having just begun the late Christopher Booker’s “Groupthink” where this explanation seems to be very much in play.

  73. Original Richard
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 11:20 am | Permalink

    No recent government has wanted to curb immigration but it’s coming in just the same way as Brexit came eventually.

    Our government/establishment/corporate elites joined the EU to firstly use UK taxpayer’s money to subsidise the move of UK factories out of the UK to countries with cheaper labour costs and then used freedom of movement to bring cheap labour to the UK.

    This meant they could save on training costs and/or investment in new plant and machinery. The additional costs in housing, healthcare and infrastructure caused by large scale immigration were again paid for by the UK taxpayer. They even introduced working tax credit, paid for by the taxpayer, to subsidise the cheap corporate pay rates.

    They also successfully developed the false meme that UK nationals were too lazy for certain jobs when the real reason was the low rates of pay they achieved for many jobs as a result of unlimited immigration.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

      Well said. I do not believe any establishment can be as incompetent as our lot at managing borders. As they all come from top universities one must presume lack of intelligence isn’t a factor, so it must be this is how they want it, chaos, so they can pretend to the electorate they are responding to concerns whilst being so incompetent that they don’t actually restrict anybody from coming here. A managed incompetence, and you have laid out the motive behind it.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

      concur fully with your comments

  74. Mark
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    I note that Andrew Bridgen, MP writes:

    Most illegal migrants arrive in our country legally and are people who have arrived on an education or tourist visa and simply overstay. Those who travel to the UK illegally do so by many routes often hidden in vehicles with or without the drivers’ knowledge.

    They come because we have a huge sub-culture of illegal workers and modern slavery in our country, a thriving sub-culture that I have recently been able to expose. Until recently the modern slavery unit at the Home Office maintained that there were about 8500 modern slaves in the UK, I can assure you that there are more than that number in the City of Leicester alone.

    I estimate that there are at least 150 000 modern slaves in our country and possibly many more, We are victims of our success, free healthcare at the point of need, free education, a comprehensive benefits system and a high, by world standards minimum wage per hour. This offers huge opportunities to the unscrupulous employers and landlords and all they need is a constant flow of illegal migrants to exploit.

    • NickC
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

      Mark, Thank you for Andrew Bridgen’s words. I do not know of modern slavery in factories hereabouts, but my wife has talked to nurses who have had to deal with illegal migrant slave prostitutes. The details are appalling.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

      Oh, he must have read my post.

  75. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    We should not rely on France to do something that we can do for ourselves.

    Over 99% of illegal immigrants are seeking a better life and are not in peril in their home countries. We should act accordingly. Step one should be to create a huge well managed internment camp on Stornoway or some other Hebridean island, with returning home the recommended option. Only the one per cent who are genuine refugees will be admitted to the rest of the UK, and then only on the basis of one year residence permits, renewable annually; the idea being that they will return to their home countries when it is safe to do so.

    All decisions on individual illegal immigrants and families should be taken by the Home Secretary representing the Executive and not – repeat NOT – by courts.

    I couldn’t care less if this breaches ‘International Law’. The whole point of leaving the EU was to restore our sovereignty IN FULL.

  76. Tabulazero
    Posted August 9, 2020 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

    What John Redwood want is for President Macron to step up from the Elysée porch and tell the French the public that France has agreed to accept thousands of illegal immigrants from the UK because it makes the Conservative Party look bad in the polls.

    You do realise that this would be political suicide for Macron, right ?

    It will never happen. Please, move on. You are wasting your time.

    • Fred H
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

      What John Redwood (and us) want is for President Macron to step up from the Elysée porch and tell the French public that France has had to agree to accept thousands of illegal immigrants back, foisted on the UK which he had hoped were there for good

      • Tabulazero
        Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

        The UK is a safe country.

        The asylum seekers are not in danger there and are within their right to lodge their asylum claim in the UK.

        The UK will process those, accept some and deport the rest to their original country.

        This has absolutely nothing to do with France.

        Now, had the UK still been part of the EU, it could have relied on the Dublin Protocol to force those immigrants to lodge their claim from the first EU country they entered… but since it has left the EU, this does not happen anymore and France is under no obligation to accept those asylum seekers.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

          Wrong again.
          France has a duty of care for these people in their country.
          They are also signed up to follow the UN Charter.
          Allowing them to travel dangerously across the Channel in tiny inflatable boats from their shores is their responsibility.

        • LT
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

          “Now, had the UK still been part of the EU, it could have relied on the Dublin Protocol to force those immigrants to lodge their claim from the first EU country they entered… but since it has left the EU, this does not happen anymore and France is under no obligation to accept those asylum seekers.”

          I must have missed something during the past twenty odd years when the French took back next to zero asylum seekers who had entered the UK via the channel ports. I suspect I have a little more grasp of this issue than you do having dealt first first hand with these people. The French for decades have refused to finger print these people because they dont want to take responsibility for their asylum claims, however spurious. All the French will do is give them a scrap of paper telling them to quit the territory. So your feeble assertion that had we chosen to stay in the EU that we could use Dublin is I’m afraid utter balderdash.

          This nonsene will only end when we tell these bogus asylum seekers that they will never get the right to remain in Britain and we remove the draw of housing, benefits etc. We would in one aspect be advised to copy the Europeans and adopt identity cards so that these people can be more readily identified and removed. We are going to have to abrogate the 1951 convention on refugees and we need to remove ourselves from the ECHR. The usual suspects wont like this but we cannot continue as we are. The numbers will continue to rise if we carry on doing nothing.

          • glen cullen
            Posted August 10, 2020 at 11:44 pm | Permalink

            spot on

          • Tabulazero
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

            It might have escaped to you that France does not share a border with Somalia, Erithrea or Afganistan.

            I welcome your suggestion that the UK adopts like all its neighbour a system of identity cards that would allow the authotities to know who is entitled to be in the country and who is not.

            This is something that has been requested by France for many years but got rejected by the British Parliament thanks to the efforts of none other than David Davis. Clever chap.

            That giant sucking sound could at first be mistaken for the hollowness of your argument but is in fact the sound made by the British immigration system whose lax attitude and habit on relying on others to sort the mess of its own making inexorably draw people in.

            To set the record straight, France deports 20k illegal immigrants each year compared to 7k for the UK.

            Why don’t you start putting your house in order first ?

          • Edward2
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

            The French have a duty of care under EU and UN conventions.
            Allowing them to illegally leave France with no checks casting off in little dingies is ridiculous.
            Ports have customs checks and border guards and patrol boats.
            If they wanted to the French could stop all who try to leave in dingies.
            They even have radar and night time binoculars.

    • Edward2
      Posted August 9, 2020 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

      These asylum seekers are already in France.

      • Tabulazero
        Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

        and yet want to cross the Channel to the UK and I think the French government should wash its hands of the problem given how little the UK did to fight illegal immigration, hoping instead that the problem would stay out of sight on the other side of the Chanel.

        • Edward2
          Posted August 10, 2020 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

          Do you?
          How strange a view.
          They claim left an unsafe country yet travelled through many nations which were far safer.
          Now eventually in one of Europe’s best democratic nations they still feel unsafe.

          • Tabulazero
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

            They are obviously attracted by the sunny uplands of Brexit.

            True believers.

            You must be so happy then.

          • Edward2
            Posted August 11, 2020 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

            Yes despite your sneering about this great nation we are preferred by immigrants from all over the world to EU nations.

        • LT
          Posted August 11, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

          The French government has washed its hands. Why else do you think they give these people a notice to quit the territory? They should finger print these people and then process their asylum claim, but they wont. Its much easier to turn a blind eye and let the British have the problem. Perfidious France.

  77. Tabulazero
    Posted August 10, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    So the British want to keep all the fishes in their territorial waters but not the immigrants in it ?

    Weird.

    • Edward2
      Posted August 10, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

      Certainly a very weird post from you again Tab.

  78. Helen Smith
    Posted August 10, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    Stop paying France to do something they are not, use satellite technology to spot the boats leaving and intercept them, towing them back to France.

    Pass a law to state that anyone entering the country illegally loses any right to claim asylum.

  79. David Williams
    Posted August 10, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    To end this problem, the UK has to be made less attractive than France for illegal migrants. Currently it is too easy to get in and stay in the UK, there is too much free stuff on offer, and too much help is given.

  80. Mike Wilson
    Posted August 10, 2020 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

    Something I can never get those who say ‘let them in, they are refugees, fleeing persecution etc.’ to respond to is this question.

    How many people from around the world who think they will have a better life here would you allow into this country?

    And, supplementary questions.

    Do you think your views should prevail over those who don’t agree with you?

    Where should the housing be built to accommodate the X million (billion?) you would allow in?

    I recognise we are very lucky to live in this country. Andy, take note. You might think this is a hateful place full of selfish, poorly educated baby boomers – but I would suggest that maybe a billion people would LOVE to live here.

  81. rose
    Posted August 11, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

    A Syrian representative of illegal immigrants was interviewed by the BBC this morning and gave three reasons for men entering the UK illegally:
    1 They speak English
    2 They have family here
    3 It is much quicker to get their family in here afterwards – only six months.

    Never mind that 2 could be seen as contradicting 3. 3 is the one which needs to be tackled right away, and doesn’t need the co-operation of other countries to do. The public have long suspected it is 3 which is the draw, but it has never been admitted on the air before.

    • glen cullen
      Posted August 11, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

      Needs investigation

  82. hefner
    Posted August 12, 2020 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    The 443 posts would have been saved if Sir John had pointed out to this document:
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/insights/migrants-crossing-the-english-channel

    but but but …

  83. Edwardm
    Posted August 13, 2020 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

    Illegal immigration is by definition wrong and our government should deploy forces to stop it and illegals should be immediately returned. And act as a future deterrent.
    We should not seek to depend on the French navy to police our borders – we should use our own Navy – no excuses not to.
    When our political class says “can’t” it means “won’t”.
    There is plenty of video evidence that our our authorities are conniving with the French to ship illegal immigrants into our country, and a blatant deception is being wrought on the British people by its political class, and has been for 20 years or more.
    As always we get words but no action.
    Let us have a referendum so the British people can say how much immigration we want in our overcrowded isle (and could be zero or negative) and the type of immigration if any.

  84. jane4brexit
    Posted August 14, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    This situation has made me think of Rylands v Fletcher, a tort which said in it’s decision “the person who for his own purposes brings on his lands and collects and keeps there anything likely to do mischief if it escapes, must keep it in at his peril, and, if he does not do so, is prima facie answerable for all the damage which is the natural consequence of its escape”.

    Which seems perfect re allowing people to escape in boats, who are then expensive for a neighbour to keep! In fact it seems so relevant, it seems almost flippant to suggest it as a solution.

    I learnt about it as insurance law, as it allows an Insurer to reclaim claims paid due to an act of negligence by an Insured’s neighbour. To make the point that that which is collected need not be dangerous where collected, it was emphasised in my textbook by the reservoirs being shown as 5 ornamental fountains ie: fun pretty not dangerous until their escape, although whether they were disguised as such is hard to check now, as all the cases I found online just say reservoir. But I am sure we were told the water was collected/disguised as fountains.

    Either way an EAW against Macron, France’s equivalent of a Home Secretary or whoever is in charge of Calais etc. on the basis of this tort would be rather fun! Claiming that they congregated people although they should have returned them to the first country they arrived in and now escaped, they are causing us financial loss and or and I hope not worse, looking at some instances in the past.

    However I am not at all sure the government can use a tort in this way, despite it seeming ideal to me. In which case I have read in comments elsewhere of an ECHR judgment the case of NT and ND versus Spain, on 13th Feb 2020. It might be worth a look at, as the commentator claims as follows and I quote parts of that comment:
    “…The 2020 Judgment also says:
    “They [the migrants] thus chose not to use the legal procedures which existed in order to enter Spanish territory lawfully, thereby failing to abide by the relevant provisions of the Schengen Borders Code regarding the crossing of the external borders of the Schengen area (see paragraph 45 above) and the domestic legislation on the subject. In so far as the Court has found that the lack of an individualised procedure for their removal was the consequence of the applicants’ own conduct in attempting to gain unauthorised entry at Melilla (see paragraph 231 above), it cannot hold the respondent State [Spain] responsible for not making available there, a legal remedy against that same removal.”

    ….Meantime, people on the “right” are mired in their own loathing for the ECHR, and have thus paralyzed themselves from picking up this nuclear weapon dated 13/02/2020.
    That last quote is massively important – what it is saying, is that because these economic migrants can apply legally to enter Europe IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES, before attempting illegal entry, sea crossings, etc., they have broken the law before they even set off – and thus it is not necessary for their target Nation to provide legal remedies for them against removal…”

    I have not read or checked the decision myself and do not know if it is as said, but as you asked for solutions I thought it worth passing on.

  85. jane4brexit
    Posted August 14, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    I didn’t include the whole comment as it was so long, this bit is probably relevant too:

    “The pro-migrant greedy lawyers don’t have a leg to stand on since the ECHR judgment in the case of NT and ND versus Spain, on 13th Feb 2020. It says that the 2 migrants (in a group of 70) “placed themselves in an unlawful situation by deliberately attempting to enter Spain by crossing the Melilla border protection structures on 13 August 2014 as part of a large group and at an unauthorised location”.”

    I have now found the case too, although it is in French:

    https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/eng#{%22documentcollectionid2%22:[%22GRANDCHAMBER%22,%22CHAMBER%22],%22itemid%22:[%22001-201354%22]}

  86. chi tiết
    Posted August 17, 2020 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    magnificent points altogether, you just received
    a brand new reader. What would you recommend about your post that you made some days ago?
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  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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