Poor car sales

The attack on diesel and petrol cars continues to work. Sales were down in September on last year and well down for 2020 so far thanks to the CV19 effects as well. Battery electric vehicle sales grew, but are still only 6.7% of the total reduced sales. Various types of hybrid are being bought, but are often driven as normal petrol or diesel cars.

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246 Comments

  1. Nigl
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

    And I see Project Fear is back with Toyota and Nissan demand we pay their tariffs in the event of a no deal.

    Weren’t they the people wrote about pulling out of the U.K. in the event of a No vote, I believe actively encouraged by Cameron’s government.

    Arrogant tosh.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

      We can easily pay the EU tariffs for all our exporters from the profit we make on tariffs from the EU. £13 billion pa.

      • Hope
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

        No wonder Johnson gave Hammond a title and extra pension!

        Johnson is following Hammond in the destruction of an industry that our nation could be a world leader in! Just when we need business.

        The Johnson’s self harming economic catastrophe is being played in slow motion while JR and chums watch without action! He has done more economic harm in six months than reckless Brown managed in ten years!

      • Stred
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

        The tariffs on EU cars will mean that more Toyotas and Nissans are sold in the UK instead of VWs, BMWs and Citroens etc.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

          I agree. If Boris goes or lifts the green crap threats re banning internal combustion engines.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

      Tariffs are paid by the consumer of the recipient country not the manufacturer of manufacturing country.

      They are trying it in and playing on people’s ignorance.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

        But if the item is no longer competitive, there are no sales! So the manufacturers problem.

        • graham1946
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

          How do they cope with exchange rate variations then? It’s just an outstretched hand for subsidy and foreign owned at that! They will sell their cars and are actively wanting to sell more in the UK. They are currently closing down factories in the EU to concentrate on Sunderland. Funny way of showing lack of confidence in the UK.

        • Mark B
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:06 am | Permalink

          Our currency has been devalued far greater than the maximum tariffs

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

        Agree Mark, what is up with our weak government they can’t rebut this. Isn’t this more the fact that their car sales have bottom lined because of covid and they want a handout?

        Everyone wants a handout.

      • miami.mode
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

        You’ve missed the point. They are in effect saying that they will not be able to sell any cars at the higher prices and therefore want our government to subsidise the tariffs.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

      Pub curfew vote pulled amid claims that ministers are ‘running scared’ of Tory rebellion

      What is going on? Does the entire Cabinet want to destroy the country?

  2. margaret howard
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

    And more bad news:

    “Japanese makers Toyota and Nissan to seek compensation from UK if no-deal Brexit forces 10% export tariff on cars built in Britain, according to report
    Daily Mail 05/10/2020”

    Brexit keeps on giving!

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

      On the other hand, presumably cars from Ford, Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroen, Renault, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Volkswagen, Volvo, Skoda, Seat, Fiat … will be 10% more expensive here. So, from the 13.5 billion savings from not being in the EU, we pay the tariffs on Toyota and Nissan cars. Oh no, wait a minute, wouldn’t that be a state subsidy?

      Whatever, Toyota and Nissan are about to sell a lot more cars in this country. And, of course, Japan has just done a trade deal with the EU. And some Toyotas are made in France.

    • NickC
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

      Margaret H, There is no such thing as an “export tariff”. The EU could impose an import tariff, but that’s the EU so don’t blame Brexit.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

      Odd because you used to tell us they would leave the UK due to the result of the referendum.
      Yet here they still are.

      Now your new line is about them wanting the government to give them lots of free money.
      It’s just businesses pushing for subsidies.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

      To be added to the fact that state pension age for men and for women is now sixty-six, and set to rise further.

      It is sixty for men and fifty-five for women in China, incidentally.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 6:46 am | Permalink

        and life expectancy 5 years lower than the western world – and thats without the Dictatorship helping some to slip this mortal coil.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

        How sexist! Surely you are shocked?

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

        Yes introduced by a Labour government Martin.

      • graham1946
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

        Anti UK in everything – applause for any country on earth that is not the UK, even a foul regime like China.

    • Dennis Zoff
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

      Margaret, as a long standing Remainer, I can imagine these days must be hard for you. I do however have sympathy for your Brexit frustration and the difficulty moving forward. Nevertheless, this time next year all be forgotten and the UK will be pursuing a brighter future. It will be your future too!

    • Fred H
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

      nobody HAS to buy a new car – -it works both for import and export.
      Recent years UK imported 2.3m cars from EU worth 38bn Euros.
      UK exports 55% of manufacture to EU – approx 715,000.

  3. Ian Wilson
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    There seems to be a desperate lack of scientific or engineering knowledge in the Cabinet. All the talk of ‘zero emissions’ by 2050 is pie-in-the-sky with present technology. The manufacture of electric cars is environmentally damaging, particularly the batteries, and also involves the deplorable use of children mining the minerals. Anyone with any sense would have realised Michael Gove’s ban on diesels would cripple our car industry.

    Now we learn Boris is about to announce 100% of household electricity will be from wind by 2030. Even with a million turbines this would be impossible – in the event of a stable anticyclone over Britain it won’t matter how many wind turbines are in place, there will be blackouts. In January’s anticyclone wind produced under 1% of our electricity and good old reliable coal came to the rescue. It even happened again in July when a coal station was fired up to save the day. Who is really behind this madness, is Boris running the country or Carrie?

    • Hope
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

      guido points out even Hammond made it clear the true underlying costs were too excessive. In answers directly to your question, not Johnson. Deben’s role and committee should be scrapped. What next voodoo and witchcraft.

      Johnson has spoke a lot of utter crap on going green today. It is about time his party read him the facts of life, I am not refrrng to his zipper.

      His false claims, three word strap lies are wearing thin. He has cost thousands of businesses to go bust, millions to loose their job. When the economic reality sets in to the nation the party and Johnson will be gone forever.

      The country cannot afford Johnson: Brexit, economically, immigration, socially, culturally, Education, welfare. Wilson started the decline, sped up by Blaire and never reversed from Major onwards.

      Everyone ask: what has the Fake Tory govt achieved in ten years on any major policy-nothing. Sunak said yesterday he would balance the books! we were promised that ten years ago by 2015! kicked down the road then into touch by Sunak in his Spend and waste March budget! Is his memory that bad or just plane dishonest?

      • oldtimer
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

        Johnson is a windbag, a dangerous windbag.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

      Indeed it is totally insane.

    • NickC
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

      Ian Wilson, Exactly so. Windmills are intermittent so need dispatchable back up. That means either storage or Gas powered generation. Neither are cheap, and roughly double the cost of Wind.

      UK offshore Wind capacity factor is around 40%, so 60% of the time it’s not generating. That missing generation is not controllable, so almost 100% back up is required on instant readiness.

    • Julian Flood
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

      He’s being led by the nose by a woman with a degree in art history.

      JF

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

        How the hell did she become a SPAD?

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:27 pm | Permalink

      The same fantasy approach with the internet – when that is crippled for whatever reason, CV19 will have been a walk in the park.

    • turboterrier
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

      Ian Wilson

      In today’s Not A Lot of People Know That high lights the PMs speech. He highlights how in reality it is just a revamped part of their manifesto. Well worth a read to get a different angle on things. Smoke and Mirrorscome to mind.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

      Who indeed certainly not a competent energy engineer or even someone who can just do simple sums.

    • miami.mode
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

      Ian, you know how politics works. It would appear that domestic electricity only uses about 30% of the total and they will only have to hit that target on one day and job done.

  4. Walt
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:26 am | Permalink

    Many of the plug-in hybrids sold are ‘company cars’ for employees who thereby pay less tax on the car as a benefit in kind. They are seldom if ever plugged in to charge-up, but instead are run on the internal combustion engine during the employees’ period of usage. However, upon disposal, they may come into the hands of private owners who might start using the electric charging facility.

    • miami.mode
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

      Agreed Walt. Often government doesn’t seem to realise the huge effect it has on people’s attitudes when they offer some sort of tax advantage.

    • I. Wragg
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

      Correct. My neighbour has a Mitsubishi PHEV as a company car and the only time he charges it is when he tows his motorcycle trailer.
      Great tax perk though.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

      They pay no tax on an electric are as a benefit in kind.

      • graham1946
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

        Government: The rich looking after the well off and corporations and loading the losses on to the poor.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        the usual mad incentives that are false Green.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

      +1

  5. Jess
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

    The government war on it’s people continues. Even without the ludicrous and pointless taxes the ludicrous and pointless covid tyranny would decimate the car industry as well as the rest of the economy. I wonder what sort of world the elite thinks it’s going to inherit when they get rid of us and also do the politicians enabling it all think they’ll be included in the new world? I suspect they will be very disappointed.

    • NickC
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

      Jess, What our establishment is attempting to impose just won’t work. So yes, either they are fantastically dim, or they are at war with us.

  6. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

    By now we should be seeing a huge push to install charging points everywhere.

    And then Boris’ windmills to power the car charging from home by 2030 – as well as the home heating. I don’t recall a war on the internal combustion engine being in his manifesto.

    The man has zero credibility neither privately nor publicly it seems.

    • UKQanon
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      NLA – Re the last paragraph – I think his bed partner keeps whispering in his ear, she is a green lunatic.

  7. Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    There is more behind this than simply the crazy theories about climate change…. This will all result in less mobility for people generally, even if electric cars are to become cheap and plentiful.

  8. Arthur Wrightiss
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

    Hybrid cars automatically use their batteries.The batteries are charged through braking,engine,and overrun. Plug in hybrids use the same system but in addition can be charged from a charger point. Typically this full charge only lasts for 15 to 20 miles despite the overly optimistic manufacturers figures. Both types of vehicle are always driven just like a normal petrol or diesel. If there isn’t a charger point available the car will always be partially run on the battery. I had one for 4 years.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

      Boris is banning hybrids.

  9. Geoff not Hoon
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

    At 4.4% down on September last year I know a few motor groups are pleasantly surprised. With shortages of product in some cases, people like me put off from buying new knowing our future second hand values of petrol and diesel cars will soon be in steep decline I expected much worse.
    Should VAT rise then expect an even bigger drop achieving absolutely nothing.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

      Quite the reverse.

      Second hand values of internal combustion vehicles will shoot up so long as there are petrol pumps.

  10. Everhopeful
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    Is that surprising?
    Recent pronouncement/legislation were guaranteed to kill off any motor trade.
    Nobody knows what the Hell you lot have in store for us so why would we buy cars?

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

      Exactly. We are governed by complete fools with zero grasp or science, climate or reality.

      • UKQanon
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

        And we all keep voting these idiots regardless of party. Time for change.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

        and more recently Finance too!

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

      Agree – this governments whole transport policy is a farce

      Thats because they cut n’ paste their policy from the green party

  11. a-tracy
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    All we hear from this government and mayors and tv media is “business is not viable” whilst your Party is adding new Lords and staffers like lining drinks up on a Christmas free bar.

    I’m just amazed the British public are hunkering down and taking all this. I want to see the tv news interviewing the company directors that the government have awarded the track and trace contract to in their area. The fear of unemployment out here is getting real now.

    The media making a big deal of students catching covid as though they’re all gonna die – just how many of them have had to have drug treatments and have been admitted into hospital? Cars are the last thing you need to worry about John, that is just one Industry – the whole Leisure sector is drowning, hotels (other than those full with government sponsored customers).

    We keep asking for facts, we are being given bull.

    • Bill B.
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

      Yes, the leisure sector needs to be given a break now. Otherwise over the winter there will be huge job losses, especially for our young people. The chance comes tomorrow, when the MPs vote on the 10 p.m. curfew. Let’s see who votes to scrap it. And who doesn’t.

      Reply I oppose the 10 pm rule

  12. DrPeterVC
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    Don’t worry it will happen. I am old enough to remember debates in parliament concerning the move to lead free petrol. In my younger days I remember thinking I would never buy diesel as they were just for busses, trains and perhaps taxis – but ended up with two (since replaced back with petrol). We buy what is available and meets our needs at affordable prices.

    Electric cars are now seen everywhere – it is all about critical mass and exponential growth. And yes my next car (probably in the next couple of years) will almost certainly be electric.

    • NickC
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

      DrPeterVC, Your next car may be battery electric, but everyone else’s can’t be – there’s not enough electricity being generated to charge them all. And not enough generation stations being built either.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

        The materials to make the batteries come from central Africa which is controlled by the Chinese.

        Effectively our transport is going to be controlled by China as our oil was controlled by the Arabs.

  13. Everhopeful
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    Who is going to buy a new car when the threat of a “wealth tax” is being bandied about?
    What a typically stupid, mendacious, weasel, NLP name! Wealth tax!
    What is taxation if not the theft of people’s wealth?
    And again we pay for your lies and trickery.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

      +1 .. if there is any wealth to tax by the time they are finished with us. This local northern lockdown is killing is, all my tenants seriously depressed, no business at all and we were just beginning to motor.

      • Everhopeful
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

        And why,why,why???
        For a “disease” that has at worst a 94.6% survival rate.
        A “Tory” party destroying entrepreneurs.
        Every now and then the full implications of all this hit me and I panic.
        What are they planning?

        • Everhopeful
          Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:32 pm | Permalink

          Oh sorry!
          I DO know.
          It is all for Agenda 21/30
          Complying with all globalist edicts.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

          We now want a full lockdown with compensation! Maybe we must run Sunak/Johnston right into their own brick wall – because we have tried to stop them and can’t, so push!

  14. Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    At first most early cars were electric. The batteries and recharging proved their downfall. When the First World War happened, oil proved its convenience and worth. I think the same argument still holds myself which is why I run a petrol driven car.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

      Indeed who want to wait 6 hour? to refil and then with only enough fuel for 100 miles?

  15. John E
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    I have been looking for my next car. I’m at an age where I might buy new and keep it to see me out. But it’s impossible to think long term when the government changes the rules every few weeks.
    I reckon those hybrids that never get plugged in are a hedge by owners who want to avoid having their car banned or made prematurely obsolete. I don’t think it makes much sense, environmental or otherwise, to have a car with two propulsion systems, constantly carrying around a spare motor and battery.
    So I’ll save my money and buy second hand to reduce my exposure to political idiocy.

  16. Iain Moore
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

    And Boris Johnson is going to power our homes by wind turbines. Fool, where do we get them from? And why are they so easily infatuated by new age fads?

    • I. Wragg
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

      He talks about 10gigawatt over 10 years.
      This he says will provide us with 40% of our needs.
      As wind historically only generates on average 18% of nameplate rating this is 7.2 gigawatt which on average 14.4% of requirements.
      Then they talk of storing which to be reasonable would have to be 4 hours worth or about 30gigawatt hours.
      Can you imagine the scale and inefficiency of such nonesense.

      • Julian Flood
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

        4 hrs? A winter high pressure zone typically covers most of Europe and lasts for several days or more. Lights out, heating off, lots of old people with pneumonia.

        We can’t go on like this.

        JF

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

          No we can’t go on like this.

      • NickC
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

        I Wragg, If it is the case that Boris thinks he will get 10GW useable Wind capacity in 10 years that means 10,000MW/(6MW x 0.31) = c5400 of the 6MW windmills, assuming a higher offshore capacity factor of 31% (BEIS).

        Some of the time those windmills will be producing almost three times more energy than is demanded, at other times almost none. What is Boris going to do with the extra electricity? And how is he going to keep the lights on when the windmills produced very little?

        This is government of the people, by buffoons, for buffoons.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:48 pm | Permalink

      and then everywhere you’ll look out to sea and the view will be miserable, ugly, half-used monstrosities that stop turning when its windy!

  17. Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    uk/gov announcement
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/families-reunited-as-asylum-seekers-transferred-to-the-uk
    “This is the latest in a series of flights which has brought asylum seekers to the UK from Greece to reunite with family, demonstrating that throughout the pandemic, the UK has remained open and fully committed to family reunification.”

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

      Why did they not fly the part-families to Greece to ‘unite them’?

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

        +1

    • Sharon
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

      Iago

      I’ve just looked at that link…. and couldn’t believe that Priti Patel said, ” I am delighted that we can bring families, who have suffered the trauma of being separated, back together. These individuals, most of whom are children, are now able to be in the UK alongside their loved ones.“

      What about British families, some of whom haven’t been able to see their loved ones during the pandemic?

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

        Well exactly Sharon, there is a video doing the rounds of a funeral director telling a son he couldn’t comfort his mother at his father’s funeral. What the hell is going on.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:06 pm | Permalink

        Very good point!

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

      Do Greece not have the same reciprocal policy arrangements – could the families not have met up in Greece – it really is all one way….thanks Boris

  18. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Note Margaret Ferrier has disappeared from the BBC news already despite doing far far worse than Dominic Cummings did.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

      the country keeps giving salaries if you don’t work.

  19. Alan Jutson
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Why would anyone pay extra for a hybrid vehicle which will suffer the same 2035 date ban as petrol and diesel, and then run it with the electrics off ?

    Is this just another Government supposition or is it yet another computer error ?

    Given all the various taxes on new cars, is it any surprise sales are down ?

  20. Ian @Barkham
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

    Blame the Chancellor. Punitive taxes to establish credentials with the Cancel Culture and WOKE Brigade is this Government punishing UK Business

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      There is no money and they can’t get blood out of a stone. The State is going to be cut to the bone!

  21. Ian @Barkham
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    This Government has it in for UK Business. All over the business media today and last week the taxpayer is essential giving money to the Chinese motor industry to develop EV platforms. That is technology for the Chinese Government to advance their Industry at the expense of the UK’s.

    Isn’t it about time we had a Government that got behind UK industry

    • turboterrier
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

      Ian @Barkham

      Get behind UK industry?

      You are having a laugh, never will happen.

  22. formula57
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Is “attack” the correct word when the Government seems deliberately eager to be tough on cars, tough on the causes of cars?

    • I. Wragg
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

      Same with the 10pm curfew. Krankie to announce tougher restrictions on hospitality sector and Boris to do something similar next week in an attempt to bankrupt the industry.

  23. agricola
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:45 am | Permalink

    The ill chosen utterings of government and an almost total lack of science and engineering within Parliament are where I point the finger of blame. Failed lawyers, because they would not be in Parliament if they were any good, are not suitable for solving technical problems.

    • turboterrier
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

      agricolar

      +1

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

      But they don’t mind spending billions on rebuilding parliament….they all have a say – pity the people don’t

  24. miami.mode
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Why would people go for new or nearly-new cars when their jobs are under continual threat and their whole way of life is currently threatened by government actions on CV 19?

    A bit of research with major car dealers should be essential as they would doubtless be able to give accurate answers.

  25. Fishknife
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    EV : Yet another URBAN pipe dream

  26. turboterrier
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Further proof when politicians especially cabinet ministers make statements with no regard to the consequences of their actions. But can you blame them when their unelected masters in the CCC are hell bent on trying to justify their position again with no consideration to the world wide consequences of their actions in the situation of child slave labour used to mine the components essential in the manufacture of batteries.. still not word from them or our cabinet how will all these products be disposed of at the end of their operational life.

    It must be the sign of the times that more and more countries and industries are exploring the hydrogen alternative. Who is listening I ask myself?

  27. Stred
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    It is reported that Johnson has gone completely off his chuff and telling us that every home will be relying on wind farms in the deep sea within a few years and that the UK will be better off for energy than Saudi Arabia. He also thinks that this will be cheap. We all know that he is mad about bridges but after this surely someone able to add up should be put in charge and Boris removed to somewhere away from government.

    • Sharon
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

      Stred

      Apart from a few tweaks to personalise his recent speech…. he’s following the global agenda!

      How does that square with being a sovereign nation? We still do as we’re told but by a bigger bunch of powerful elites?

      • Everhopeful
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        Yes!
        I have been banging on about this for ages.
        And as I have said ad nauseam …every Covid restriction feeds into the globalist agenda.
        A way of imposing Agenda 21/30.
        And obviously every single politician knows this!

        • turbterrier
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

          Ever hopeful

          They or the large majority are wearing rose coloured spectacles and ear plugs. All ignoring a touch of the bleeding obvious if you are prepared to research it andstartto thinkoutside the box

      • Anonymous
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

        Boris reads scripts, he is an actor.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:39 pm | Permalink

      Wind farm power hasn’t reduced a single household energy bill to date

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 10:54 pm | Permalink

        Is that true? I just changed from SSE to So Energy. The So Energy tariff is much cheaper than the best SSE could offer. I selected to get all my electricity from renewables too.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

          Subsidies

  28. glen cullen
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    But poor car sales are 100% contributed to the management of the sector by this government

    Car manufactures want to make cars and car buyers want to buy – but this government has made it almost impossible, its as if they have a policy to destroy the whole sector and make hundreds of thousands unemployed so a few can feel good driving an electric car

    Leave the market alone

    • turboterrier
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

      glen cullen

      Exactly

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

      +1. Leave the market alone – apply this to education, housing, healthcare, energy and almost everything else!

      But they never will!

  29. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Jaguar Land Rover, Britain’s biggest carmaker, has restored two-shift production patterns at its Halewood and Solihull plants, as well as its £1 billion Engine Manufacturing Centre in the Midlands, to meet increasing global demand.
    Free of the disastrous, bankrupt EU and left to our own devices, we are already thriving (in spite of the idiot Johnson: lockdown killing my tenants businesses and spirit in the north)

    • margaret howard
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

      Lynn

      Yes, Jaguar Land Rover has done well under the leadership of their CEO, the German Ralf Speth and under the ownership of the Indian Tata company.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:46 pm | Permalink

      A close friend and senior employee at one of the plants mentioned told me that they’re only pursuing the EV production because of UK government policy and associated grants otherwise they ‘’wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole’’

      We’re being pushed into buying them and manufacturers are being pushed into making them…..nobody in the industry or market really wants them …apart from the green party

  30. glen cullen
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Why has the Tory Party got a net zero carbon target by 2030 ? Its not to help the people or manufacturing UK

    I may have inferred in some posts that this government was like ‘new labour’ I was mistaken it’s the new ‘GREEN’ party

    • L Jones
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

      It all seems like a conspiracy to bring the world to its collective knees. That this green lunacy should be pushed at the same time as the ruin from the mismanagement of the virus is suffered, certainly seems like a deliberately malign act of destruction.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • Cynic
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

        It seems it’s impossible to underestimate the damage which Government can deliver on the economy. Yet another own goal!

      • DaveK
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:42 pm | Permalink

        I’m afraid you misunderstood. The world is not the target of all these measures. Have you not noticed that the end result is always some communist style anti capitalist utopia. Climate Change/Covid/BLM etc. All aimed at Western virtue signalling Limpdem politicians. You don’t need to don metal headgear to see that there are common sources such as the UN (IPCC/WHO) and certain billionaires.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

      Why has the Tory Party got a net zero carbon target by 2030 ? Why indeed? Mrs May why do we have the Climate Change Act and the absurd Climate Committee chaired by History Graduate Lord Debden (Gummer)?

      Anyway it is not Carbon it is harmless, odourless, clean CO2 plant food that is greening the planet very nicely and doing more good than harm.

      CO2 is just one of millions of things that affect the climate slightly but a rather minor one. There is no climate catastrophe in sight and controlling CO2 will not work even if there were one in sight.

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

        +1 Agree

      • NickC
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

        Lifelogic, Correct. The most important “greenhouse gas” is water vapour. Let’s see the green believers try and stop that one.

        • hefner
          Posted October 10, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

          Indeed water vapour is the most important greenhouse gas, with a timescale for the water cycle of around a few hours to days via the evaporation /condensation /precipitation processes.

          The one for methane is about 12 years, for CO2 about a century. Any small heating by CO2, CH4 or other greenhouse gases is enhanced by the water vapour feedback (higher temperature -> higher total humidity).

          Let’s see how NickC et al. try and stop that one.

          (And to counter one of NickC’s posts below, only journalists were talking about an ice age in the ‘70s. The 1965 President’s Scientific Advisory Committee Report of Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide was already warning PotUS Lyndon Johnson of the potential for global warming).

  31. Lifelogic
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    The 6.7% of total new car registrations includes pure-electric vehicles (EVs), plug-in hybrid vehicles (PHEVs).. Plug in hybrid will often never or hardly ever be plugged in so are essentially conventionally fueled most of the time.

    They seem to use the term “pure-electric” or “plug in” for this group of vehicles perhaps to mislead as most are mainly fossil fuel. Just as the industry (and the Transport Sec. endlessly mislead with the term “Zero Emmission”. Electric only cars are under 2%.

    If you want to save money and save the planet keep you old car – that is the best plan in general.

    • Ginty
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      Saw a Tesla the other day.

      Lovely it was.

      All metallic paint, top quality trim and plush upholstery.

      Is it really less environmentally costly than my basic petrol engine car that I’ve been running for five years and will continue for at least another seven ?

      • Lifelogic
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

        No it certainly is not. A friend of mine had one and in the first month a fairly minor impact to it (when parked) meant is was written off and another one built.

  32. Lifelogic
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile the foolish Boris is wittering on about offshore windfarms. Not long ago he was on about how “they could not pull the skin of a rice pudding”. Has his new wife brain washed him?

    Cut all the green crap subsidies. Either they work (without subsidy) or they are not economic and should not happen.

    You were right first time Boris do the maths. Sunac is deluded too!

    • Caterpillar
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

      Well negative subsidy is the forecast in the coming decade, so that might be put to one side. A little harder is to put the environmental (local and rare earth mining) effect to one side and the defence of the windfarms to oneside. But doing that, then presumably the questions are (i) not just replacing electricity but also efficient household gas), and (ii) how will energy produced be stored (battery, hydrogen/ammonia, other) to match demand to supply.

      Doing the basic math: if offshore wind is expanded as currently on track by about another 10GW to 40GW by 2030, that will supply between 100 and 150 TWhr in a year. The average household consumes electricity of about 4MWhr per year so 25 to 40 million households electricity consumption could be supplied. Of course the average household also consumes about 12MWhr of gas, so ……. just need three times as much again.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

        Of course energy per household could go down with a vertical, rental model but the PM has announced further interfering in the housing market, this time via all of us taking on others’ mortgage risk. The vile propping up of the housing market to misdirect resources to all the problems caused by, and opportunities lost to, suburban sprawl is more damaging than most of the ‘policies’ appearing.

        • Ginty
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

          +1

          95% mortgages is going to deliver the direct opposite of what young people need.

          A further housing boom when they need a housing correction – and fewer competitors immigrating to compete with them.

      • DaveK
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

        Then add the charging of 17 million vehicles (unless us peasants won’t be allowed one).

  33. XYXY
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 10:49 am | Permalink

    I struggle ti understand how we consistently elect politicians who jump on board the climate change bandwagon so unquestioningly.

    When the CFC / ozone layer issue was raised, scientists had trouble getting attention. once it was shown to be true and a solution as found that worked, it seems they all want to believe anything they are told, as if having scientific advice behind their actions will make everyone vote for them.

    It’s almost the same with wars – Thatcher did well out of the Falklands, so it seemed Blair believed that some sort of “just” war would also bolster his ratings. There is a difference, though, between liberating a part of the UK that has been invaded and invading another country.

    Also, there is a difference when there is unanimity in the scientific world over CFCs and a relatively cheap fix via using an alternative and one there, in the case of climate change, “the science” is far from conclusive, is disputed by a large number of eminent scientists and any remedy is economically crippling.

    I suspect that climate change politics will be the Iraq to CFC-related politics’ Falklands.

    The question is: how do we get politicians to realise that science is divided on this issue, that much more scientific investigation needs to be done – and get them to stop the economic disaster that is about to befall us?

    Diesel technology has come a long way in recent years, it may now be cleaner than other vehicles when you consider how electricity is produced.

  34. Lifelogic
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 10:59 am | Permalink

    Boris is talking complete lunacy in his speech on windmills (as he calls wind electic generators ) they do not mill anything. They do not generate energy on demand, they produce lots of CO2 in their manufacture, construction and maintenance too.

    They need huge tax payer subsidy and market rigging, the electricity they produce is not worth much (as it not on demand and not easy to connect to the grid). Plus they destroy net jobs massively.

    Have you gone mad?

    • L Jones
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      Not to mention the huge expense for their disposal once their (short) life is over.

      Yes – I think Boris must be bonkers. Or he’s being made to look a fool deliberately – by whom?

    • DennisA
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      Offshore wind also has considerable problems with sub-sea cables. The new array off Brighton was out of action for almost 6 months last year. They did say that electricity supplies to the area were not affected, so therefore why was it needed?

      • I. Wragg
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

        There’s also a problem with blade erosion and gearbox failure do to the hostile environment.
        They are only lasting on average 20 years. Not the 40 budgeted for.

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • Lifelogic
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

        Whenever I fly over Brighton there are loads of boats servicing, installing the repairing the turbines and cables – doubless all using loads of diesel.

    • Sharon
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      In addition. Wind thingys use tons and tons of concrete, have a life span of about ten years, and kill thousands of birds annually. Who digs up the concrete at the end? If it’s like the wind farm in southern Australia – no-one!

      Green – my foot!

    • John Waugh
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

      A man worth listening to –
      Dr. Euan Mearns .
      euanmearns.com
      Energy Matters / Energy , Environment , and Policy .
      You will be much better informed if you follow his logic.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      we haven’t gone mad – but you have to seriously wonder how long the Tories can allow this destruction of country and party to continue.

  35. Lifelogic
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    Boris is even talking of Zero Carbon Jets! He really has gone mad!

    • DennisA
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

      Surplus jet fuel because of the collapse of aviation, is currently being “re-purposed” as fuel for shipping. Fancy a quick cruise?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      Yes Boris no longer has a mind to change. Totally nuts in May!

      • Fred H
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

        tons of acorns fell in our garden this year – could be he’s nuts all the year round?

    • Julian Flood
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

      You do not believe in the ability of this great country of ours to make enormously long but light power cables? Shame on you!

      JF

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

      Somebody is wagging the dog

  36. Iain Gill
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    Same with hybrid buses, often failures of the electrics leave them running on diesel only for long periods, so more polluting than pure diesel buses.

  37. Mark B
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:16 am | Permalink

    Good afternoon

    People will not make a large purchase with the specter of unemployment looming overhead.

    Manufacturers may need to cut their product range and close factories to reduce costs. This in turn will affect the wider economy. Economic depression looms, and it will both be long and ugly.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

      But Boris said today, that next year everyone will be driving an electric car, getting cheap zero carbon energy and re-employed as windfarm maintenance engineers….life’s looking good on his planet

  38. NickC
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:22 am | Permalink

    Until the CAGW “consensus” can explain how the balance between CO2 sinks and sources is created, we do not know that additional CO2 caused by burning natural fuels makes any difference at all to the free CO2 in the atmosphere.

    Moreover the about 1 deg K warming we’ve seen in the last couple of centuries as we have recovered from the “little ice age” has no causal connection to the increase in free CO2. Indeed the fear in the 1970s was that we were approaching another ice age, despite rising CO2.

    Battery electric cars are an ecological disaster dependent on both toxic rare earths (for windmills and traction motors) and toxic batteries (which are just a box of chemicals). True to form Boris is going for both windmills and battery cars. He is unhinged and has to go.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:58 pm | Permalink

      Agree – and if the Tory MPs can’t see that, maybe it’s time for a new party in government

      • Fred H
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

        I think thats been clear for the last few PMs. Heaven help us with the next lot of rag, tail and bobtails. Or should the creatures be weasels and chickens?

  39. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    The good thing about hybrids is that they may, exactly, be driven as ordinary petrol or diesel cars.

    However, they do very many more miles per litre, and so people’s changing to them is environmentally beneficial however they are driven.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

      Hybrids are to be banned.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

        All must use bicycles just like China.
        Martin will be thrilled.

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

        Correct

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

      Martin you’ve obviously never owned a hybrid. They are only marginally more efficient than my Civic 51.6 mpg on a run, and a damp site more expensive.

    • Stred
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

      They do about the same as an efficient diesel of the same size. A hybrid Chelsea tractor only does 40 mpg in practice on long journeys.

  40. Mark
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    Given the importance of company cars to new vehicle sales, the huge difference in benefit in kind tax between EVs, currently zero rates, but set to remain extremely low, and rates of over 40% of showroom value per year on a more capable diesel car, despite its very low pollution with Euro 6 standards, Adbkue, and particulate filters. Threats to keep advancing the date at which sales of new ICE cars are supposed to stop, and talk of piling yet more taxation onto motor fuel ate London centric green virtue signalling that are being imposed without debate like a loockdown measure.

    I suspect that any political party that chose to oppose these measures would soon gather a lot of support if it were allowed to put the case properly.

  41. Sharon
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:43 am | Permalink

    I suspect hybrid and electric cars have tax concessions, which would encourage hybrid purchases. Road tax or congestion exemptions are going to make cost savings, but if the electric part is unused – it’s a bit pointless.

    I know of one person who had an electric car, but has since sold it and bought a diesel.

    As with most ‘green’ things, the opposite is generally true. People are not stupid, they can see through. As with the wind power obsession, it’s utterly bad for the environment.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      When everyone is forced to buy an electric car the associated car fund road tax will increase in direct proportion to the loss of petrol/diesel tax cars – the government will get its pound of flesh

      The same with green energy, the household bills will never decrease as the on-costs will remain – companies have to make profit and government revenue

  42. Peter
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:51 am | Permalink

    There is a war on cars per se. Bit of relief here in Southampton where the crazy bike lane scheme was actually rowed back a bit with the massively increased network actually reduced a bit and roads restored where the lanes were not being used at all.
    Maybe as the tax take crashes there will be second thoughts???…..

  43. MickN
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

    Is there an answer to the question:
    How many sea windmills will be needed to provide the power for General usage/millions of vehicles/replacement heating systems when gas boilers are banned?

    • turboterrier
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

      MICK N

      Tens of thousands!!

    • Stred
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

      The Climate Change Committee, chaired by John Gummer, has suggested that 15,000 will be enough. They will be 500 ft high and much more efficient than the present ones, apparently. They hope that each one will last for 20 years in the salt laden gales. The performance of turbines decreases as they age. The 200% back up supply, which will have to last for a couple of weeks during a wind lull in freezing mid winter will come from gas but converted to hydrogen at great expense and energy loss. I am not making this up. It’s in the CCC technical report.

      • Stred
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

        100% not 200.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

      Doesn’t matter how many are needed as they’re all manufactured aboard

      (1) Vestas, Denmark (2) Siemens Gamesa Germany (3) GE, USA. (4) Goldwind, China (5) Enercon, Germany. (6) Nordex Group, Germany. (7) Senvion, Germany. (8) United Power, China

    • Fred H
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

      quite a few million -I don’t do mad estimates – ask Hancock or Carrie for one?

  44. Newmania
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

    Car sales nose dive …….despite Brexit ?

    Reply Car sales collapse in the single market!

  45. rose
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    I am thinking of the gas fuelled power stations. If they are turned on and off, mostly off, to back up wind power, they don’t like it, especially if they are old. They like to run continuously. We have in consequence had two power cuts recently, one in August of all
    times.

    The wind turbines are also a worry. How will fishermen navigate through them? And what will happen to the old turbines? Can they be recycled? The Germans seem to leave them lying on the ground at the feet of the new ones.

    • turboterrier
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

      rose

      It is not just turbines it is solar panels, batteries and the damage to the sea bed and destroying the micro biology make up of the ocean.

    • steve
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 12:03 am | Permalink

      rose

      “The wind turbines are also a worry. How will fishermen navigate through them?”

      That will not be a problem.

  46. Hugh Rose
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

    We bought a plug-in hybrid. Started getting warning messages that our petrol had gone stale because using the car for local journeys (<25 miles) only during due to pandemic restrictions, it was all electric. Luckily had a longer journey planned so was able to use up 15 litres and make room for some new petrol. Now keep the tank half empty so there is room for one minimum fill to keep petrol fresh!

    • Mark
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

      That’s much more of a problem with putting bioethanol in the petrol (which also reduces the mpg you get too). Itvwill get worse as we move to higher bioethanol conent in more pseudo green virtue signalling. Properly accounted, (i.e. including the lower mpg) bioethanol isn’t green at all.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:58 pm | Permalink

      get a bigger lawnmower and weekly siphon some petrol out of the car?

  47. roger
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    it would appear that Boris has finally acknowledged that he is the quintessential windbag that we always suspected as he promises that every home will be powered by offshore wind by 2030.
    Aeolus and the Anemoi will continue to rest for indeterminate periods just as they have for millennia confounding the plans of mortals in their own capricious way. He needs to reread Greek mythology and to learn what happens to those who displease them.
    How did I ever vote for this bumbling idiot?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

      +1 I did purely too ‘get brexit done’. Boris is in deeper water than the proposed windmills. He really must go.

      • turboterrier
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson
        +1 Hopefully they will dump him after country is finally free

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

        To be replaced by which of the ever-growing number, to have become PM without having had their party face a General Election?

        And to think that you complained endlessly about the European Union’s top civil servant being – just like the UK’s – unelected.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 7:06 am | Permalink

          Those EU officials and commissioners and council technocrats are unelected and always have been.
          The UK has regular elections where we can vote out the government.
          And the PM is an elected MP.

        • NickC
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

          Martin, The EU Commission writes (originates) EU laws, so is the executive government. The UK civil service doesn’t, and isn’t. There is no comparison.

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:21 pm | Permalink

        We give him our vote to satisfy brexit (which still hasn’t happened) only; not to invent and implement green policies – we need a general election

        • Will in Hampshire
          Posted October 7, 2020 at 10:14 pm | Permalink

          I know you’re a Leaver and therefore not over-endowed in the brain department, but surely even you can use a calendar, can’t you? It’ll be in 2024.

    • Mark Mitchell
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

      “How did I ever vote for this bumbling idiot?”

      I feel the same, but sadly there wasn’t any other choice.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

        I didn’t really, but tried to ensure our host survived the pathetic attempt at muscling in by a neighbour who had been thrown out.

    • Robert Mcdonald
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

      You should have voted for the Tory manifesto, and Boris is delivering that in unprecedented times against much remoaner and establishment led opposite and of course covid. I doubt if the hindsight of the fence sitter, Sir Kneeler could do better, and of course Corbyn was then the alternative, which is no alternative.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 4:03 am | Permalink

        Because Thatcherism and Reaganism were banned.

        By who ?

        The ‘nasty’ party ?

    • Barbara
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

      We’re back to David Cameron and his stupid ‘windmill on the roof’

  48. George Brooks.
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Last Sunday I had a 350 mile (seven and half hours) round trip and it rained from start to finish so wipers and head lights were on all the time. No electric car could half that distance in those conditions.

    So why are so many stupid MPs trying to force us back to the early 1920s?

    • Sharon
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

      I read an article ages ago that said the global elite want a world government with a quarter of the world’s population and pre-industrial lifestyle. Sounds like Utopia.

      I dismissed it as madness! Hmm!

    • Julian Flood
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

      Because they lack the courage to point out the nudity of the Emperor.

      JF

    • Fred H
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      you could have stopped in a service station (or two) after waiting for an available charging point for a couple of hours minimum and read a newspaper cover to cover!

  49. Lifelogic
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Sunak yesterday:-

    “We have a sacred responsibility to future generations to leave the public finances strong, and through careful management of our economy, this Conservative government will always balance the books.”

    Does he know what balancing the books is?

    “I also want to thank my predecessors: George, Phillip and Sajid.”

    Well they did not balance the books and were all tax to death, borrow and piss down the drain merchants.

    “It is only because of ten years of sound Conservative management of our economy that this government has been able to act with the pace and scale we have in responding to Coronavirus.”

    Tax to death, borrow hand over fist and piss down the drain is “sound Conservative management of the economy” is it then?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

      Sunak as quoted above and Boris ‘things will be back to normal this time next year’ – I have had a migraine all day. Both round the bend.

  50. The Prangwizard
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

    Boris is insane. He says that all house lighting, heating, cooking and the charging of all electric cars will be supplied by windmills by 2030. It is a ridiculous aim and claim. These kill birds, create navigation hazards and destroy the sea bed but Greens care nothing of that nor of their inefficiency.

    He’s not talking to ordinary sensible people, he’s virtue signalling to the globalist green socialist authoritarians. He almost mentioned the Green New Deal demanded by the extreme Left of the US Democrats – after all he shares their slogan Build Back Better.

    Yet he claims to be a Tory and all the Tory MPs will loyally follow him even those who say they disagree because their party is more important than everything else. He’s bankrupting the country but that doesn’t matter either.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

      +1

  51. Ed M
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

    Can we please restore national service like Sweden has done.

    Not necessarily in exactly the same way but something similar – maybe for 3 months.

    It would help to sort out many social problems. Make boys more manly and responsible and productive in work. Toughen them up in a good way – but also an opportunity for good fun as well. And to learn about patriotism.

    • Ed M
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

      With this pandemic around for a while, now would be a great time for national service (lite – not for nearly as long as in old days).

      It would also be a great opportunity to include national service with educational extras for free i.e. learn how to code, learn how to do digital marketing, learning accountancy, woodwork, plumbing etc Things like that.

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

      I think you should do National Service for 3 months Ed. A new politically correct speech kind.

      What’s wrong if a man is ‘girly’? I know lots of ‘None-manly’ males in responsible and productive work and they don’t need a brick filled backpack and indoctrinated patriotism agenda ramming down their throats. What form of patriotism suits you?

      • Fred H
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

        I looked but couldn’t find the use of ‘girly’. I did find ‘more manly’.
        Read what was said, not what you wish was there.

        • a-tracy
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

          I accept that Fred I should not have put girly in ‘.. ‘ however, I still stand by my point there is nothing wrong with men that aren’t considered ‘manly’ by Ed when he said we should “Make boys more manly”
          “Toughen them up in a good way” – what does that even mean? I know martial arts experts very tough guys that are thin and weak looking.
          I don’t agree with National Service forced on all. I would not have wanted my children forced to do it and I wouldn’t have wanted to do it.

      • Ed M
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

        I did CCF at school. Really good laugh. Including night exercise getting all muddy with my buddies, the army shooting range, and watching army tanks spin and shoot along in thick mud!

        Way more fun than sitting inside getting obese, arguing with parents and playing computer games all day like so many youths today.

        I hope they bring back national service for a few months. More manly young men will also be more responsible and so more productive in work reducing tax burden.

        • Ed M
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:28 am | Permalink

          My Dad’s Dad was in British army for 30 years – one of best men I ever knew. Army discipline was big in the person he was.

          • a-tracy
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 11:00 am | Permalink

            That doesn’t mean it is for every man Ed.
            None of my children played on computer games all day or hardly ever actually. None of them are obese or even overweight. None of them have claimed benefits. They are also very disciplined people.

            I hope they never bring back compulsory national service.

  52. JohnK
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    With this wind power announcement the world king has surely jumped the shark.

    The policy of ending the sale of ICE cars by 2035, and going “carbon neutral” by 2050 is the biggest change to our lifestyles ever planned by a British government, yet has had virtually no public debate. Nor can you vote against it, as all major parties are committed to it.

    This policy will affect our lives far more than EU membership ever did. I would seriously ask that we be given the chance to vote in a referendum on this policy. It is being foisted on the British people without debate and without consent. We need to vote on it.

  53. Everhopeful
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

    Isn’t cancelling the vote on the ludicrous curfew an admission of government totalitarianism?
    Aren’t our oh so laid back MPs just a tad alarmed by this?
    CURFEW! Not in my name because I know history. I know what comes next.
    Is that what our MPs want??

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 6, 2020 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

      Oh I see!
      The govt. is taking anti-rebellion steps in Westminster!
      Wear your masks, keep your distance, Perspex screens.
      No whispering in huddles.
      Obey!

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

        Phase one complete

  54. ChrisS
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

    So today, The Great Leader is telling us that all our houses will be powered by wind turbines by 2030!

    Is he completely barking ? There is no chance of achieving this as on a calm day so we will be without lighting and heating.

    As for cars, his plan to stop the sale of IC-engined cars from anywhere between 2030 and 2040 will kill the car industry stone dead long before we get there. Put simply, electric cars are useless for anyone who doesn’t have the ability to charge their car at home and travels more to a destination more than 80 miles from home and wants to get home again.

    Highly respected engineers in the industry have told me that the range/recharging time issue for pure battery-electric cars will not be solved for at least 15 years, if at all.

    Electric cars are only suitable for short commutes or shopping but they are far too expensive at present and don’t offer any significant running cost savings over a petrol or diesel car, some of which will regularly return up to 70mpg.

    Like millions of others, I will be keeping my latest diesel car for the long term. It is a supremely comfortable and fast, three litre Audi A7 and is currently doing 50mpg, has a range of 625 miles and takes 4 minutes to “recharge.”

    When an electric car can compete with that, I might consider one.

    • NickC
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      ChrisS, From 2025 new houses cannot use Gas for water and space heating. Even the best heat pumps (ground source) need 1KW of electricity for each 4KW of heat.

      From 2035 (2030 threatened) all new cars must not have an IC engine, so must be battery or hydrogen fuelled.

      So within 15 years, if Boris gets his way, we are looking at doubling (or more) our electricity production. It just isn’t going to happen. Boris has no idea what to do with the surplus energy from Wind; and has no idea where to get electricity from when the wind isn’t blowing; and isn’t building anything like enough capacity to cope anyway.

      It makes his covid19 policy look sane.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:26 pm | Permalink

      Boris needs to be sectioned – after 15th because that’s d-Day. If he extends more evidence for sectioning.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

        Treason ought to be applicable.

  55. Adam
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

    Hybrid cars seem a compromise like an albatross with an udder that Heath Robinson would invent just for a laugh.

    If battery-powered cars are to be efficient, they need to be lightweight, with stamina to reach distances required. Pushing the heavy metal of an internal combustion engine, plus the apparatus to cool it, with the weight of any water it needs, creates a challenge like trying to push water uphill.

    Cars should be designed fit for purpose. Most drivers’ purpose is to reach their destination safely, on time and at low expense. Entertainment like greasy-pole climbing contests are more suited to village fetes.

    • Monza 71
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 6:34 pm | Permalink

      The motors in a Tesla Model S have to push around the weight of the 85Kw battery pack which weighs 1200lb (540kg) !

      That is more than twice the weight of a typical 3 litre Diesel engine and gearbox. Then you have to add the weight of the motors and the electronics units that control them. In the Tesla that means an additional 300-400lb (135-180kg).

      That’s why a Tesla Model S weighs 2,250kg and a similar-sized Audi A7 weighs between 1,700kg and 2,00okg

      • Adam
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:29 pm | Permalink

        Weight is the problem. It helps going downhill, but saps up.

        If cars could transfer their excess downward power to cars passing up, in the opposite direction, that might use unwanted weight efficiently.

        First 2-min idea there is:
         A long-distance path with cars passing in opposite directional queues.
         Path undulates evenly all the way.
         Cars run on water weight: a tank on their roof and drain pipe on their left.
         Weight pushes the car to the bottom of each hill & part way up the next slope.
         As downward car decelerates, excess water is pumped out into a shared channel on each car’s left.
         Cars zooming down from the opposite direction suck in water from the central channel for braking, and power beyond the brow.

  56. Sea_Warrior
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

    The government’s focus seems to be on the economy of 2040 – and it doesn’t care much about the destruction of that of today.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      The Unions back in the day tried hard to destroy the economy and political structures.
      A determined Lady led the moves to break the stranglehold and turned UK into a better country on pretty much all levels.

      Now the anarchist groups and elected MPs and Civil Servants, Judges and Media are succeeding where the Unions failed.

      We had a PM to defeat it, now we have a PM who has joined the movement.

  57. Ed M
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

    @Andy,

    Do you believe in Patriotism? Do you believe patriotism (NOT nationalism) is a virtue?

    If yes, then why are you so attached to the EU?

    I am not saying you can’t question how we leave the EU (that’s a fair and good point in my view). But whether you believe that Sovereignty in itself is a good and valuable thing?

    This isn’t a trick question. I believe patriotism is a virtue – according to the Greco-Roman and traditional-Christian worlds (where patriotism is an extension of love of family which is in itself an extension of each person as a sovereign, free person. Therefore Sovereignty in theory at least is a very good thing). Do you agree with this. If not, why not?

  58. Clive L
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

    Good evening Sir John and all .
    Car sales are falling for many reasons , firstly , the general public have no confidence in the future , their future, as millions face great uncertainty
    Governments over the years have tried to steer the car industry one way and then another , petrol one year then diesel or hybrid or, or. The cost of R&D for the industry runs into tens of millions and still there is no real direction from Government . Plug in electric cars need plug in points , millions of them if they are to be effective , but alas , this to date is sadly lacking .
    As for today’s wind turbine nonsense from our illustrious leader words fail me .

    Oh Lordy lord help us all .

  59. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

    The government’s green policy seems to be to accentuate this trend, with a focus on electric cars and off shore wind farms. We need to be sure that we do not put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage to countries using petrol cars and burning cheap dirty coal at their power stations – the latter group including USA, China, India, Poland and Germany.

    There are two ways of doing this:
    (1) Slowing down our rate of conversion OR
    (2) Reforming WTO rules so that exports from dirty economy countries attract tariffs

    Parliament should insist that both options are discussed.

  60. Edwardm
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

    Apart from the effects of CV19, the move against petrol and diesel car sales is driven by quackery. Electric cars do have nice features – but demand should be consumer lead, not pushed by government – and where is all the electricity going to reliably come from?
    Our government is showing itself to be far from evidence based, and falling for nonsense spouted by nihilistic left-wing dominated “green” pressure groups.
    All the evidence I have seen indicates that CO2 is not a significant contributor to global warming. I have seen no hard evidence to the contrary. (The world is warming but over geological history it has regularly changed temperature – nothing to do with man or CO2).

  61. Anonymous
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

    Boris is a person who has spent so much more time learning the tricks of the trade that he never learned the trade. He is all icing and no cake. All hat, no cattle. All foam, no beer. All hammer, no nail. All sizzle, no steak. All show, no go. All shot, no powder. Rasputin/Cummings all-bark-no-bite-poodle BoJo was best known as an after dinner speaker but what works when performed in front of a usually slightly p….d audience does not easily transfer to the national stage.

    • Ginty
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:20 am | Permalink

      And wrecked personal finances (despite earning millions) and kids and broken relationships everywhere.

      Totally unsuitable for high office as Max Hastings (his former boss) said.

      A spoilt man as said another.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

        +1

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      even the icing doesn’t set – all soft and squidgy.

  62. steve
    Posted October 6, 2020 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

    JR

    This alleged conservative government is about to delay brexit yet again, insistent on a deal which, by the way we did not vote for.

    Your party does not care a hoot for sovereignty and national pride and doesn’t have the stomach to defend our islands against the french-led EU pariah, unlike those of us who voted conservative.

    This government is deliberately being as quiet as possible concerning brexit.

    We said time and time again….no delays, no concessions. The ‘conservative’ party will not win another general election, ever.

    I’m sorry it has come to this, but that is what happens when you put a clown and appeaser in charge rather than a patriotically minded fighter.

    Everything Boris promised us was nothing more than horse sh*t, wasn’t it.

    Your party has been rumbled. It’s game over, sorry mate but we made it quite clear do not dare invoke voter’s wrath where our sovereignty and that of our island is concerned. Do not dare appease a hostile EU, do not dare delay our exit from that french – led pariah.

    I think your good self, JRM, and Rt Hon Wm Hague should leave this incumbent bag of brown stuff and form your own political party, sharpish like. Because we warned what we would do if we were betrayed again, and we meant it !

  63. dixie
    Posted October 7, 2020 at 5:17 am | Permalink

    On their website BP currently estimate world oil & gas reserves meeting 50 years of current consumption.

    50 years!

    50 years is within my children’s lifetime and the consequences will happen much sooner, maybe in my lifetime.

    If this is accurate what policies are needed and what actions must be taken before that point if we are to maintain capabilities currently dependent on oil – transport, heating, chemicals, plastics, pharma, agriculture etc?

    Do you think doing nothing except whine about not being able to use a petrol/diesel car is acceptable or even appropriate.

    Why are you not discussing the issue, consequences and what should be done instead? Or is the plan simply to send the young people of the time to fight over dwindling resources and hope for the “best”?

    reply Plenty more hydrocarbon to find anD exploit if we want to.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 7:08 am | Permalink

      There have been numerous false predictions of “peak oil” dating back from the 1970s.
      All have been found hopelessly wrong.
      We keep finding more reserves.
      We have more oil and fossil fuel now today than ever before.

      • dixie
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

        Edward, As for as I am aware the monitoring and estimation of reserves vs production is a continuous process and the projected period varies as the demand and identified supply vary.

        The question I have is what strategy and provision does our government have for resources critical to our economy and wellbeing. We have seen the utter lack of competence in our government’s planning and provision of relatively simple resources such as PPE. What confidence can we therefore have in their competence around more strategic issues.

        Just because some oil and gas may be found somewhere does not mean we will be able to afford it or even access the supply.

        If the goal is to enable personal transportation then there are a range of ways that can be achieved, some of which could still use hydrocarbon fuels produced by means other than simply digging it out of the ground. But many other elements of our economy and everyday life depend on energy and petrochemicals and strategies need to be established for that provision as well.

        I want my government to be planning such things ahead not simply accepting increasing costs of supply until suddenly they can’t afford it because well before that point we won’t be heating our homes, running tractors or accessing drugs and products. All of which are decidedly more important than being able to run an existing car on petrol in 20+ years.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

          I’m less worried about the future than you are Dixie.
          We have heard about “the oil is running out” all my life yet here we are in 2020 awash with oil.
          Huge shale gas reserves have been discovered.
          We have nuclear power, hydrogen power, solar, wind, wave, hydro and huge reserves of coal.

          Who knows what new energy source may be discovered next year.

          Cars only use a small proportion of the total consumption of fossil fuels and over the last few years their fuel efficiency and pollution levels have improved greatly.
          A process which is continuing and is happening to other forms of transportation and other machines which currently use fossil fuels.

          • dixie
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

            We do not have sufficient nuclear power and our governments do not seem to have the motivation or strategy to maintain or extend the provision. We have no level of hydrogen based power, solar and wind are not sufficient by themselves while it is not clear where hydro power is to come from in the UK.

            The tenor of this blog and commentary is that we need do nothing but continue to enjoy our god given right to drive around and the world will continue to provide the resources we need. The view is that someone else will invest the R&D and provide whatever energy we need.

            What makes you think we will remain a first world economy and will be able to afford such things?

          • Edward2
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

            Nuclear power is an available power source.
            It is just current governments are reluctant to bid further new plants.
            We could if we wished generate all our electricity from nuclear sources.
            France gets over half from nuclear.

            Driving around creates a very small overall consumption of fossil fuels.

            Fuel is more abundant and cheap now ( less added taxes) than ever before.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 7:56 am | Permalink

      But ten years ?

      And why not nuclear ???

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 7:56 am | Permalink

        What we’re not being told is that we are going to have to be a lot LOT poorer and less mobile.

    • graham1946
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 9:41 am | Permalink

      They’ve been saying this for the last 50 years, except it used to be 20 years, which never comes. Peak oil was supposed to have been reached in the 90’s but that never happened, now they say it will be in the 2030’s – a bit like global warming which is always 10 years away.
      When the North Sea oil licences were being purchased, they used to say the wells were running dry and got cut rates, then low and behold they made new discoveries. If oil is in danger of short supply the price will rise and it is currently quite low historically. This is the industry crying wolf for some reason yet to appear.

      • dixie
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

        Hasn’t the price of oil increased over that period of time? Perhaps reflecting how much harder it is to extract the oil or accomodating issues around where it is being extracted.

        At what stage does it become too expensive for the average person to afford to fuel their car, heat their home?

        • Edward2
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

          No it is just the added taxes nations place on a litre of oil diesel or petrol
          If a litre is £1.30 over 75p is tax in the UK.

    • dixie
      Posted October 7, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

      @Reply – maybe, but harder to get at, more expensive and there is rapidly increasing demand as economies advance. As the general economics and demographics change we may find we are less able to compete for these resources.

      Kicking the can down the road is not a responsible attitude.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 3:52 pm | Permalink

        We are finding large new reserves regularly.
        For example America doesn’t need to import any oil due to huge discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico and huge discoveries in Russia and Guyana.
        The world has greater reserves now than ever.
        Huge discoveries of gas and coal too.

        • Fred H
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

          it doesn’t need to import any oil due to huge discoveries in Russia…… so is it importing or not !!

          • Edward2
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

            I didn’t write my post well Fred.

            America doesn’t need to import oil due to discoveries in the Gulf of Mexico.

            There have also been other huge discoveries in Russia and Guyana.

        • dixie
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

          But “we” are not finding new reserves and it is other economies that are growing and demanding more resources.

          Or do you seriously think Russia, for example. will sell us all the hydrocarbons we will need without some complications?

          • Edward2
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

            We are finding new reserves.
            Every year.

            Russia sells gas to the EU

      • NickC
        Posted October 7, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

        Dixie, Even if only 10% of known UK shale gas reserves are utilised it would last us over 50 years.

        • dixie
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

          Really? Or will the same happen to all our other resources, including North Sea oil – exported.

          • Edward2
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

            No
            Shale gas is everywhere.
            In some countries they refuse to exploit it.

  64. Mike Wilson
    Posted October 7, 2020 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

    I thought hybrids did not have charging points. I thought the engine charged the battery and the battery powered the car at low speeds – until the battery was drained at which point the engine kicks in to power the car and recharge the battery.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      That is correct but there is another type of hybrid vehicle which additionally can be plugged in to charge up.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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