Lock down rules

I was working with a group of MPs led by Sir Graham Brady to secure debates and votes on the Rule of 6 and the 10pm curfew, which the government conceded. Both votes were to be held this week.

Following my consultation on the Rule of 6, and following discussions with other MPs, it seemed best to vote against the Curfew measures. These do more economic damage than the rule of 6 , and are opposed by the Opposition giving us a real opportunity to win the vote. The Rule of 6 was not opposed by the Opposition.

The consultation showed a predictable split of opinion, with some favouring laws and strong guidance over conduct to try to control the spread of the virus, and some wanting the controls removed to allow people to make their own decisions.

I did not vote for the Rule of 6, wanting to see more evidence of how it would reduce the spread. Many people think, for example, that it should be amended to exclude young children. Yesterday we did not get a vote on the curfew which I wished to oppose. The government is presumably thinking again about the wisdom of this measure. It needs to bring this for ratification or defeat soon. Many think forcing people out onto the streets all at the same time at 10pm, with knock on effects on pavements and public transport in busy locations, is not a good idea. It can also transfer drinking from pubs to private homes which may not be as well set up to limit the spread of any airborne disease.

The Rule of 6 passed by 287 to 17 with most of the Opposition abstaining but not against the measure in principle. If all the Opposition join Conservative opponents of the curfew it should be defeated. It is interesting that the Rule of 6 did not command a majority of the possible votes in the Commons.

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  1. Mark B
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:20 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    I mentioned in a previous post that the government stated aim was to be led only by the science. To date there has been presented no scientific evidence that more than 6 persons represents a danger to public health. I therefore do not see the wisdom of so many Tory MP’s supporting this other than basic tribal loyalty. They clearly putting their careers and their party before their jobs, that being, to hold the executive to account. It is this failure, nay dereliction, of duty that is making this worse. The government needs to be forced back into making sensible balanced decisions. The only way is through questioning their proposals.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      The Labour leader points out in 19 out of 20 lockdowns, cases have gone up – though this shows nothing one way or another; cases could be more or less than they otherwise would have been (and it of course ignores the key question of who is infected). The ‘led by the science’ Govt has of course not case matched areas and undertaken lockdowns in some and not others to at least learn the effect (an A-B expt approximating ‘science’).

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

        “Today, Friday October 9 is the seventh day of Merseyside, Halton and Warrington being placed under the same restrictions as apply in the North East – with stricter curbs on households mixing indoors.” Liverpool Echo.

        Now look at the Daily Mail with a photograph from revellers in Liverpool City Centre last night. It is the Councils and local police and LOCAL authorities that aren’t policing and controlling the social distance measures.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink


      Yes – You have to question why they are so keen on imposing measures that will destroy our economy and way of life — You don’t imagine that there is some other agenda at play here, or do we?

    • Iain Moore
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      Agreed, same here, right from the off I been banging on about the lack of detailed information and data on Covid, the British states addiction to secrecy is denying us the information to make informed risk assessments.

      The imperious statements from Government are no good enough, with all their chopping and changing and back of a fag packet proposals they have blown their authority. Now if they want me to follow any instructions from them they will have to produce the detailed information, so we can follow the logic from the data to the steps they are taking.

      They say Boris isn’t a details man, well he had better start being PDQ!

    • NickC
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      MarkB, Your disappointment in the behaviour of more than a handful of MPs to challenge the government is fully understandable and I echo it.

      The only realistic metric of a covid19 lockdown is the death toll in relation to other diseases. We are not in lockdown for pneumonia and influenza yet they remain more potent killers than covid19 at the moment.

    • Hope
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

      Correct. Science would say over 65years and anyone with health issues be isolated and supported. Everyone encouraged to help to protect them. The rest carry on.

      Sir Simon Stevens and should be sacked, age apartheid why do these idiots come out with such rot. He and his colleagues resoundingly failed to prepare the CPU try as was his duty and legal responsibility under the Advil Contingiency Act. First one up for investigation Jermey Hunt who failed to prepare the nations health service and response.

    • BOF
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

      Mark B. I agree.

    • Original Chris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:41 am | Permalink

      Agreed, Mark B.

    • Javelin
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink

      On the Plus side the SNP are even more chaotic, unscientific and impetuous than the Government.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

        Almost impossible to believe!

      • Mark B
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 3:56 am | Permalink

        On the negative, this government (sic), seems unimaginative and is happy to follow their lead.

    • Barbara
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:55 am | Permalink

      Esther McVey said it became clear during the debate that the ‘’6’ figure was a totally arbitrary one, chosen solely becase the police demanded simplicity.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

        Why not 5 then. 5 fingers on one hand?

        • Qubus
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

          I prefer eight. That’s the number of bits in a byte. Just as scientific as the criterion being applied.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        yes – they count using both hands! All fingers on one hand and only the thumb on the other are allowed.

    • Sir Patrick Vaccine
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

      The Government’s bid to smear critics as in favour of ‘letting the virus rip’ is disgusting. Politicians have a responsibility to ensure all expert voices can be heard without fear


      Daily Telegraph

  2. Sir Patrick Vaccine
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:25 am | Permalink

    Jay Bhattacharya: Lockdown is more harmful than

    Talk Radio on You Tube

    Professor Jay Bhattacharya from Stanford University has joined 6,000 other health experts in signing the Great Barrington Declaration, a global anti-lockdown movement.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:46 am | Permalink

      +1 – A further lockdown now is indeed far more hamful (on balance) than sensible voluntary protections for the vulnerable.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

        Amidst the mess of government sponsored evidence, circumstantial evidence points to a virulent but rather rare and short lived infection. If 1 in 1000 or fewer are walking round with it, and 1 in 1000 of those who aren’t already in bad health end up dying from it per week, remaining careful without cowering for those over 60 and living a normal life for the vast majority of those under 60 seems sensible.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

          Indeed currently in the UK Covid is only about the 24th commonest cause of death at about 2% of overall daily deaths.

      • Sir Patrick Vaccine
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

        Harrowing suicide figures reveal toll on Victorians

        Sky News Australia host Peta Credlin says by the end of 2020 there could be more people lost to suicide in Victoria than to coroanvirus.

        And we know this terrible tragedy is happening here.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:20 pm | Permalink

          18 a day. Mad Boris does not care!

    • I. Wragg
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:18 am | Permalink

      A futher 2 week lockdown is what the government was thinking. Krankie announced it earlier so Boris will be seen to be weak and a follower.
      The 10pm curfew should be scrapped and people left to control their own lifes.
      Just watch Westminster sneak another lockdown in only under a different guise.
      The traffic lights guidance has been printed weeks ago.

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

        Scotland’s school holiday occurs one/two weeks before Englands.

    • NickC
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

      Sir Patrick, An excellent 9 minute video.

    • wab
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

      Read the piece in the Wired on 7 October by Matt Reynolds about the so-called Great Barrington Declaration (unfortunately Redwood does not allow links but it is easy enough to find). This is a fake debate stoked up by people whose intentions should be scrutinised. (As usual, follow the money.)

      • Edward2
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

        Sir John to you wab.

      • James Bertram
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

        wab – the article you posted was complete nonsense. I highlight one example of such stupidity: ‘…What is more interesting about the Great Barrington Declaration is what is missing. There is nothing about test and trace or mask-wearing – two interventions that we know are effective at stopping the spread of Covid-19 and don’t require any curtailing of our individual behaviour….’

        If you want a sensible discussion of The Great Barrington Declaration (sadly, an exceedingly pompous name) then please refer to today’s Lockdown Sceptics.org website and scroll down to the article: Scientists’ Petition Smashes 100,000 Signatures

      • Enigma
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

        Ooh wab do tell let’s have all the evidence please

  3. Frances Truscott
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:32 am | Permalink

    It seems we do not yet know if covid does produce immunity. So why are you for long hours of drinking and associating?
    1 in 10 get long covid and that could be anyone.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:47 am | Permalink

      One in ten is a fanciful claim.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

      Frances Truscott,

      WHO estimates about 10% of world has had Covid (s0 around 800 million), we have only heard of a couple of possible cases of reinfection. Although challenge studies have not been done, this is a rather strong observation.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:30 am | Permalink

      1 in 10 don’t get long Covid. That is a lie.

    • Longinus
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      Covid produces antibodies and T-cell responses so it provokes an immune response. This response seems to be longer lasting in those who have recovered from severe symptoms. SARS-CoV-2 infections have a case fatality rate of only 0.16% in line with other flu viruses.

    • zorro
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

      LOL – one in ten of what/who??


    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

      “Long Covid” another bloody stupid name thought up by SAGE?
      Sounds similar to Post Viral Syndrome or ME.
      Don’t believe that the NHS even officially recognises those two conditions.
      My whole immediate family had a flu in 1999.
      Totally debilitating mentally and physically.
      Never recovered.
      Who cared? Certainly not the NHS…or the Government for that matter!

  4. DOM
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    I for one genuinely couldn’t care less how or indeed why you and indeed other MPs voted for or didn’t for these measures or indeed any measure at all

    I look around and I now see an authoritarian politics in many forms embraced by both you, you party and that stain in opposition. This fascist culture extends beyond politics and has spread throughout the land and seeps into all areas of life. This has been a deliberate political process. I now when we’re being ‘played’ and treated like puppets which is something Thatcher NEVER DID.

    I also see an unelected, unaccountable body of political players namely the Socialist sub-State that now forms of part of British politics and now acts ultra vires and without any sense of responsibility or concern for freedom

    Covid-19 has given this vile political class and the Labour-unions taxpayer funded power base the perfect excuse to strengthen their grip over power, create new levers of power and generally send a message to the majority that we must now adapt to a new world of imposition, authoritarianism and identity politics in which the criminal law is SELECTIVELY applied according to your physical and other forms of identity

    A democratic event like the GE will not change the above. These changes are beyond reversal and are made beyond accountable

    These reprobates have taken our vote, gained power and then used it against us to take our freedoms and expose us to Marxism in all its many forms

    Freedom and liberty are now dirty words. Expect more attacks on our free world in the name of the Common Good (loosely translated means collectivist authoritarianism)

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink


    • Caterpillar
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink


      Your argument has been and remains very plausible. What should be the response?

    • Sir Patrick Vaccine
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:46 am | Permalink

      DOM “This fascist culture extends beyond politics ….”

      I would say communist culture.

      The Lockdown were copiied from the Chinese Communist Party.

      It started with long Soviet style queue in supermarkets.

      It’s continues with Stasi style reporting in you neighbours

    • Iago
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      Accurate description of England.

    • NickC
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

      Dom, I think the authoritarian politics by all the main parties and the establishment, is partly revenge on us, the people, for voting Leave. And partly because they have fully bought in to the prevailing cultural-marxist orthodoxy.

      It has also mimicked the successful four and a half year establishment Remain resistance to implementing our Leave vote. The plain fact is that, even if Boris capitulates no more, with previous capitulations, and the long term effects of the WA, we are not going to be fully free of the EU.

    • Original Chris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      You are right, DOM, but I truly believe that President Trump is about to put the biggest spanner in the works, if/when he wins reelection.

      I believe MPs are holding on to the current radical Left doctrine, believing that P Trump will lose. Yet again I think they have underestimated P Trump, and significantly underestimated the power and grip on our country of the radical Left, aka China/CCP. Yes, China wants one world government like our globalists Tory MPs, but the CCP aim to be in charge of that one world government, so that is why they have apparently mounted the most ferocious and dangerous campaign against President Trump using the Democrats as tools. The hold of the CCP in the UK is very significant, but we seem to have either ostriches for MPs or MPs (and civil servants apparently) working to promote China. Our future survival depends on President Trump.

      • Everhopeful
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

        I think he just might have put a spanner in the vaccine works! Fingers crossed.
        After all..the meds he tried worked didn’t they?😊
        Vaccine trials not going too well!

        • Everhopeful
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:29 pm | Permalink

          I used to think that Tory MPs were naive or over-keen to please the screeching Left.
          Now I think they only care about the party and are pragmatic ( ie any route to power is ok).
          We can all go hang!

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

        Trump will win. We need to find our Trump. (It’s not Nigel).

    • L Jones
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

      DOM – I couldn’t agree more.
      I’m reading the comments and seething. I recognise that nearly everyone here feels as I do, so there’s not much point in adding my fury to theirs. As you say, nothing we can do now will easily change what these self-serving people have brought us to.
      As for all these these ”discussions” that Sir John speaks of – they’re just about how to tinker with the control and coercion, not how to end them. And we’re supposed to be grateful for any leeway we’re given? The fact that we know full well – and ‘they’ know we know – that there is now a vanishingly small ‘risk’ of any serious harm, except for a very few unfortunates – is of no consequence to ‘them’ whatsoever. We are being insulted and manipulated, because to relax the controls would mean ‘they’ would lose their power. No despot wants that, and the well being of the country is no longer paramount.
      So far as a ”democratic event” is concerned – it seems more and more likely that we won’t see one of these in a form we’d recognise from the past.

      Reply It takes a majority in the Commons to change things which is why MPs have to work together and work for higher numbers of supporters.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

        I spoke to my (Tenants) MP’s representative in the Constituency, a new Red Brick Tory seat. He is a stuttering gibberish wreck. This Government is indefensible! I hope the MP knows that because he better start making up the numbers to reverse this Madness.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

        reply to reply – – – why only vote if you THINK you can win?
        Your opinion should be counted on EVERY vote – how else can the electorate be satisfied and the Government be alerted to falling support?

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

          Because the Government whips will make you life a total hell. Only reasonable to go through hell when you win.

  5. Sir Patrick Vaccine
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:35 am | Permalink

    A simple question to ask everyone you know, and to ask your MPs.

    If Covid 19 is so bad where are all the supermarket deaths?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:46 am | Permalink

      Most of those who picked up the virus in a supermarket died in hospital. Where else?

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

        So there should be an enormous shortage of till workers and shelf stackers as they would have all dropped like flies and many would be ill in hospital. That doesn’t seem to be the case.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

        So only 1% of 1% then, because in the supermarkets it was allowed ‘to rip’!

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

        Levity from Martin – have you a fever?

        • Roy Grainger
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:31 am | Permalink

          He’s following up on his fantastic comedy material of complaining that the UK death rate is higher than in Senegal (average age of population 18).

        • No Longer Anonymous
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

          Only a Lidl, don’t get too excited.

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

            That wasn’t just a joke. That was an M in C joke

      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        thank you for the science. You should be advising the Cabinet – – maybe you are and we see the result?

      • NickC
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        “Most”, Martin? Really, more than 50% of those infected in supermarkets died? Where did you get that stat from?

      • zorro
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

        Even for you, that is a weak and flippant response…


      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

        All the over 80s – very ill, demented, escaping from Care homes and pretending to go for a walk from carers naturally visited supermarkets.
        You really are scraping the barrel.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      Where are the high level number of deaths period ?

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      Absolutely, I go to the same two supermarkets, so know the staff and they have just got on with it, no missing faces. If they had behaved like our craven politicians and boffins we would all have starved to death after major civil unrest.

      MPs get real, many of us accepted the lockdown because the NHS could not cope.

      Successive governments made no contingency for a SARS pandemic.

      The reality is we cannot beat the virus, a vaccine may never be found e.g. common cold.

      Extra help for the vulnerable and sensible indoor restrictions but outdoors let the country return to pre CV.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

        And Boris has killed the NHS (It’s closed effectively) so no need to try to ‘save’ it!

        • bill brown
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          Very poor.

          Bill from central London

  6. Pominoz
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:36 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    The curfew imposed in Victoria, here in Australia, is loved by the leftist politicians wanting to impose their authority on the masses and despised by the vast majority of those actually restricted by it, as well as by the majority of other Australians. The Victorian Premier (who ensures he is involved in every facet of decision making in Victoria) keeps saying he cannot recall who actually made the decision to impose it – and neither can anyone else in the Government or involved public officials. They are scared witless of having the blame for the consequences of their decision landing on their shoulders. With false positive tests and no real knowledge of who has, or has had, the virus, any decision to remove the curfew must now be a political, rather than a health, decision and no-one has the guts to take it.

    If the UK imposes a curfew – when will it be lifted? Will the essential requirements for lifting be announced on imposition? What do the Government hope to achieve by the curfew?

    The WHO, and many other experts (although many find it hard to get their views publicly aired) say that such restrictions do not work. The virus is here to stay on a permanent basis whether a vaccine is found or not. Whatever action is taken elimination will not occur. Boris should listen to his friend Donald and take decisions which prove he ‘is not afraid’ of the virus. He should, however, be very afraid of the political consequences of the inevitable economic disaster that will occur with continuation of severe restrictions on trade and movement.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

      In Italy, Giuseppe Conte, the Prime Minister, is enjoying enormous support and respect because of his honest, transparent, consistent approach to dealing with the epidemic there.

      It is also highly commendable that he was able to forge an alliance between the centre Left and the Five Star Movement, and to form a majority on that basis.

      What with the destruction and of Golden Dawn in Greece, and the imprisonment of its fascist criminals, things seem to be looking up in the southern European Union.

      Let’s hope that other governments follow Greece’s lead, and in short order.

      • Roy Grainger
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

        So now you think Italy have handled it well …. let me just check the data …. hmmmmm …

      • Sir Patrick Vaccine
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

        In Italy, Giuseppe Conte, the Prime Minister, ….

        Italy’s 4th consequente unelected Prime Minister. The last one to win an election was Berlusconi.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

          That’s the for you. Most of Greece has no medication available whatsoever. So all they can do is play down CV19. What the German/EU has done to Greeks is unforgivable. Again!

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

            That’s the EU for you …

          • bill brown
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:16 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            the Eu has 27 members and germany is just one of them
            thank you

          • Edward2
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

            Germany has the biggest economy and the greatest power in the EU.

      • IanT
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

        “Things seem to be looking up in the Southern European Union”
        All that debt and unemployment has been sorted then Martin!

        Good News.

        The Greeks are generally a happy people – I didn’t like to see them miserable – so I’m delighted that the EU has sorted everything out for them.

      • Andy
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink


        We forgot the wonderful positives the EU has brought to southern — and eastern – Europe.

        Spain and Greece were both dictatorships well into the 1970s.

        Eastern Europe was dictatorship well into the early 1990s.

        Croatia and Slovenia were at war into the mid 1990a. Genocide was occurring on this continent.

        Places like Dubrovnik were like Aleppo is today. Like Dresden was in the 1940s.

        For all its faults – and there are many – the EU has guaranteed peace, prosperity and democracy on a continent which had been at permanent war. And it has done so in just a couple of decades. And, no, it is not NATO which has done it. It is the EU. Thank you Europe. We will see off the pensioners and we will bring the UK back into the happy family of nations before too long.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

          Everything positive that has happened in European countries you say is due to the EU.
          Anything negative you say is the individual country’s own fault.
          And amazingly you think the EU has kept the peace not NATO.

          • bill brown
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:14 am | Permalink

            Edward 2

            Even you know that there aspects of both what Andy is raising and you raised that kept peace in Europe

          • Edward2
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

            No I think NATO and individual nations worked to keep the peace since 1945.
            The EU with its determination to expand Eastwards has become a destabilising force of late.

          • bill brown
            Posted October 10, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

            Edward 2
            We are talking about 70 Years not just recently

        • Barbara
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

          ‘See off the pensioners’, you say … rather a revealing phrase.

        • John C.
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

          We will see off the pensioners. A tasteless slogan, but worthy of you. It would make a good banner, perhaps illustrated with gas-fitted showers.

        • beresford
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

          … and where would science be without the EU’s successful Moon Landing programme of the 1960’s? Millions laud the EU for its discovery of the Cure for Cancer, and for completing Beethoven’s Unfinished Symphony.

      • NickC
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

        Martin, Fascist curtailment of people’s freedoms is hardly “looking up”, is it? And you seem to have conveniently forgotten the economic destruction wrought by the (not) “one-size-fits-all” Euro, including unsustainable sovereign debt and zombie banks.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:08 am | Permalink

        You are quite ‘the political animal’ are you not!
        Which movements and activities would you suggest imprisonment for in the UK?

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

      This is so similar to the NHS. Nobody actually fesses up to the catastrophe of sending sick infected aged people back to care homes. Nobody takes responsibility for GPs closing their doors. Nobody takes responsibility for stopping non virus services and scaring people witless.

      The niceties of rule of 6 and curfews are on the edges of an individual issue, scratching the surface.
      We need a PM and government rather like Trump, ready to rip health and education out of the ground and change the rules. This one isn’t doing what we voted for.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

        God give the UK a Trump! Nothing less will do!

        • bill brown
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:12 am | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          It seems a majority Americans are not agreeing with you according to opinion polls

          • Edward2
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

            As they did when they predicted Clinton would win.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      The Left loves the measures because they will totally crash the world economy!
      That is their aim.
      And very soon they will get what they want.

  7. Lifelogic
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:10 am | Permalink

    Good luck with that. There is no real danger of the NHS being overrun now and no justification for anything more than sensible voluntary measures to proptect the vulnerable. It only delays the infection spread and causes more damage to the economy and deaths from other causes. It is doing more harm than good.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      Welcome home LL. we sort of lost you on CV19, which shows how effective the propaganda unit is.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:19 am | Permalink

        Well we were all sensibly cautious at the outset. Now we have some kind of grip of figures and circumstantial evidence, despite the lousy data from government sources.

        Locking students inside is rather stupid, politically and economically. We know one returning home from University having given up after 3 weeks. Stuck in a block with nobody in his subject area, lecturers not helping at all, he has lost all inspiration.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        The early lockdown measures saved live (though it was done too late and done rather inefficiently and not very effectively). My position has been completely consistent and shown to be right. The position now is quite different.

        • a-tracy
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

          Well, it may have been late for London but it was early elsewhere in the UK such as the SouthWest.

          • Lifelogic
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

            Some truth in that.

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

          You were shriller than that female Labour MP who accused the Prime Minister of advocating violence against minorities @LL.

          You wanted a spare ventilator on call for all as I recall.

          If lockdown was the answer then why isn’t it now?

          • Lifelogic
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

            So as to give time for the NHS to prepare, increase capacity and improve their Covid care regime of course.

          • Lifelogic
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

            Drivel – go back are read what I actually said.

          • Narrow Shoulders
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

            I read it all at the time @LL with amusement.

            “Why didn’t we have sufficient spare ventilator capacity for all?” was your increasingly plaintive cry everyday.

            Yet you don’t want to be taxed to pay for it and private would not have that kind of capacity in reserve either.

            The drivel sir, was yours (as has been proved by ventilator treatment being discredited).

    • Richard1
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink


    • Al
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:22 am | Permalink

      ” It is doing more harm than good.” – Lifelogic

      Agreed. We have the vast majority of infections in schools (21.5%) and offices (18.04%), yet the government insists on closing the hospitality sector (4.09%) to further damage the economy.

      The Test and Trace data is being used for harrassment, despite the ICO guidelines, and there is no easy way to report violators or any consequences to them when they are. Worse, a report puts the victims at risk because their personal data has already been leaked. Apparently the government believes there cannot possibly be issues with forcing people to hand out their details to strangers in bars and restaurants.

      Masks are being worn under the nose or under the chin or not at all. I’ll believe some people have an exemption, but not our entire local sixth form for example, and there’s no enforcement going on.

      Lockdown is expected to kill another 76,000 or more over the next five years, and the government is ramping it up again.

      And now we hear that a rushed-through vaccine is about to be pushed on the country.

      The Great Barrington Declaration (now signed by over 11,000 scientists and medical practioners) offers an alternative that would allow the country to recover, and still allow focused protection of vulnerable groups. Why is the government not considering this option, to the extent of Liz Truss claiming it does not exist when pushed on Radio 4?

    • zorro
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

      The prodigal son returns…..


      • Lifelogic
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

        I have been entirely consistent and right, some flattening of the first peak was sensible when we have 10,000 covid deaths a week and the NHS could not cope (indeed measures were taken too late). Currently at only circa 50-60 deaths a day and the 24th commonest cause of death it is quite different.

        People who have invested with me have never lost money quite the reverse – so not really a prodigal son – who is returning having wasted all the cash.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

        Fatted calf required!

  8. Iain Gill
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    the problem with a lot of the measures is if they are doing anything at all, all they are doing is moving the problem a little to the right on the gantt chart. so not really helping overall.

    that and the fact the NHS has shutdown and is not treating a lot of other stuff.

    and the mental pressure this is putting on people, and the poverty it will cause.

    this whole position is not sustainable. we need to stop wasting money on stuff that is not helping.

    Neil Oliver on Talk Radio yesterday is well worth listening to, its up on youtube.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

      Yes, death by 1,000 cuts.

  9. MPC
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    We are hearing generalised comments that hospitalisation/intensive care admissions are increasing but still no detailed data on actual numbers and people affected – age, ethnicity, pre existing conditions and deaths of people without pre existing conditions. I suspect there are ver y few if any in the latter category but the government won’t allow its critics any opportunity for real challenge. Perhaps you can exert further influence regarding release of meaningful data Mr Redwood?

  10. davews
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:23 am | Permalink

    It is now clear that your government is to follow Ms Sturgeon and introduce more ruinous restrictions/closures on pubs and restaurants. Yet it is also abundantly clear from ‘case’ numbers in lockdown areas that lockdowns do zilch to control the virus. Like many I despair and whereas we were prepared to lockdown for a few weeks in March it has now gone beyond a joke. Life for me has been utterly destroyed, everything I used to enjoy now banned. Please can the government get some sanity back.

    • Andy
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      On the contrary. Lockdown did indeed suppress the virus. It came back when we reopened. Rather than reopening slowly and gradually the government reopened fast – pressured by the exact same people who reject climate change and who continue to tell you Brexit is wonderful (lorry parks, cough).

      Not only were restaurants allowed to open but diners were subsidised to go to them. Not only were people allowed to go back to work but there were dark threats – we know who from – about working from home and P45s.

      Schools went back. Insanely, universities did too. Mad. Who could have guessed that tens of thousands of teenagers mixing and travelling would causes a flare up.

      The is a car crash failed government. Whilst they have had a difficult challenge to face they have miserably failed at every stage. Even today the north knows it will soon face what is effectively a new lockdown. Briefed by Dominic Cummings and co. And how much debate has there been in Parliament? What do the region’s elected MPs and mayors think?

      Awful. It is government by diktat of the unelected bureaucrats. And the bureaucrats are not even a teeny bit competent.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:11 am | Permalink

        The virus remerged when schools and universities opened in flu season.

        Very little to do with commercial activity.

        • a-tracy
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

          Universities are notorious for spreading quite serious infections in the first three months of each term from meningitis (MenW particularly dangerous), measles, mumps, glandular fever, to freshers flu. It also triggers asthma.

          I suspect a lot of the students going into hospital have a combination of these triggered infections sometimes with added new covid infection on top.

      • Richard1
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

        You are wrong. All around the world all lockdowns have done is push the peak out. There was logic to the initial one to stop overwhelming of hospitals – which in reality we see now was never a threat. In many countries the data show clearly that infections had peaked before the effects of lockdown could come in.

        It is a foolish and costly policy – and one which leftists like you have been shrieking for even more of. We’ll remember that.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:38 pm | Permalink


      • Everhopeful
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

        There isn’t a “flare up”.
        Just a test that does not “do” diagnosis.
        I suppose MPs are stoically ignoring the videos made by the bloke who invented the PCR test?

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

        Shock news.
        50 people already with co-morbidities die from a new infection.
        What are the figures for MRSA?

        • Fred H
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

          the NHS will tell you it has been eradicated.

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

            The NHS will tell you anything, they are telling us that they fear they will be overwhelmed (again), obviously need another £30 billion or so.

      • Roy Grainger
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

        They reopened at the same speed as your EU chums, including Germany. Reopening slow or fast doesn’t change the number of cases in the end. Countries who locked down fast – as you advocated – now have a bigger second wave (eg. Poland).

      • Philip P.
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

        This is simply wrong, Andy. The government did not ‘reopen fast’. Its exit strategy from the spring lockdown was among the slowest in Europe. The government’s own figures (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk) show that after Johnson finally allowed shops, pubs and restaurants to open at the beginning of July, Covid deaths, admissions and ‘cases’ remained flat or even declined for two months. Now in the autumn respiratory conditions which may or may not have anything to do with the SARS 2 virus are increasing, as they do every year.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink


        I agree with much what you say.

        Lockdown did work (but at a huge cost) and it was certainly released too early and much too fast if the Government were still looking and wanting to control the infection rate at a low level.

        Thought the household bubble share idea was good, but the rule of 6 is far too generous if the idea is to try and control the infection rate.
        A Simple mathematical calculation should highlight that error.

        6 x 6 x 6 x 6 x 6 etc.

        But it is not the Government that is actually spreading the infection, that is down to the people.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

          Another CV19 case? Do you feel dizzy at all?

          • Alan Jutson
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:59 pm | Permalink


            Many thanks for your concern, but I feel absolutely fine thanks.

            I simply constantly assess the risk when I go out and try to maintain social distancing at all times, it has not really inhibited my movements much at all.

            However I do see when I go out lots of people who do not seem to be bothered at all in trying to keep themselves or others safe, and therein is the problem.

            This virus is all about peoples behaviour.

            I agree the Government seem to now be totally confused, but they are not spreading the virus are they.

      • Peter
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

        Usual rubbish until the last paragraph! Had you sobered up by then??

        • Peter
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

          Another occasional, short contribution above.

          Not posted by me though.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        Nothing to do with the CCP then.

      • Ian Wragg
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:03 am | Permalink

        I see my comment has vanished saying that the traffuc light system leaflets have been printed weeks ago.
        Kranckie is just pre empting westminster as usual to make Boris look like a follower.
        There seems enough science now saying lockdown doesn’t work but that doesn’t fit the agenda.

      • NickC
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

        Andy, On the contrary, the full lockdown did not suppress the covid19 virus.

        The mean time to death is currently estimated to be 26.8 days on a log normal distribution (Wood, Cornell). Yet the time between lockdown starting (24th March) and the death toll maximum (10th April) was only 18 days. Consequently the death toll was getting lower for people who had been infected before the lockdown. So the full lockdown was irrelevant to this reduction.

      • Mike Wilson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

        Are they building lorry parks in France, Belgium and the Netherlands? Why not? Are we being more sensible and helpful than the EU?

        How many people are one the world would you help by allowing them to move here?

      • DaveK
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 2:10 pm | Permalink

        -1 Fact free drivel, except for the last paragraph.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      Isn’t Ms Sturgeon our PM

      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

        shows more leadership though.

  11. Lifelogic
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Yesterday Woman’s Hour (with new presenters) continued with it clear aim of making people think that most women are daft by it selection of guests. They found two femail engineers working on the Hydrogen Train project. They were ask various questions and gave rather or very silly answers.

    One question was:- Is it entirely clean energy? The honest answer is no not at all. You still have to build the over complex train, fuel cells, hydrogen storage system and large batteries and make the hydrogen. It is very inefficient indeed.

    Another: Any reason why this would be a more expensive form of rail travel? Correct answer – Yes it will be far more expensive this a simple tried and tested diesel engine (which can be made to be very clean anyway). It is very inefficient and expensive to make the hydrogen and deliver & store the hydrogen. Then it is very inefficient to convert in the fuel cell, to charge the expensive and short lived battery and discharge the battery to drive the train.

    A diesel engine is far cheaper, simpler and far preferable. In Winter you need heating to so it is an efficient combined heat and power unit.


    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:11 am | Permalink

      Men have been totally marginalised from BBC science.
      Those archaeology progs!
      And of course male politicians have stood by and allowed it to happen.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      But there’s no green headline in diesel

    • Mitchel
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:44 am | Permalink

      Don’t forget,Lifelogic,in the Soviet style economy we have,the more the government spends/prints the bigger will be the GDP figure-no need to worry about debt,everthing will balance on the spreadsheet.

      And just like the Soviet Union we will all “live like princes in the next generation”-it was always a generation away-in the meantime,the apparatchiks,pursuing such a noble goal,will be allowed to live like princes in the current generation….because they’re worth it!

    • acorn
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

      To correct just one of your hyper-bollocks statements LL; fuel cell conversion efficiency is circa twice as good as a diesel engine.

      Have a look at all those stupid idiot French and German engineers – some of them women – that; according to a dinosaur like yourself, still insist on building and operating H2 train sets. https://www.alstom.com/solutions/rolling-stock/coradia-ilint-worlds-1st-hydrogen-powered-train

      It won’t be long before they can claim that the Hydrogen is no longer made from fossil fuels but by Electrolysis using wind and solar PV.

      • Mark
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

        According to respected industry consultant Timera, “green” hydrogen made by electolysis from wind turbine supplied electricity is ten times as costly as natural gas. They think that maybe that cost can be halved by 2050 given a fair wind. Doesn’t sound like a sensible way to power a train to me.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:26 pm | Permalink

        Powering trains is best achieved first by diesel, next by a combination of diesel and electricity and then by pure electricity.
        Hydrogen requires a complex and relatively inefficient process to create energy.

  12. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    Successive Tory governments have centralised power and resources away from local authorities, in their doctrinaire puritanism’s determination to prevent any form of social or municipal enterprise, redistributive local funding, or any other manifestation of what they call socialism.

    However, if you look at countries which are coping best with this epidemic, it is precisely those where local people and their elected bodies have the power and resources to do what is needed in their locality, and to enlist the people needed to do it. This is particularly so with contact tracing and support for people isolating.

    The English Tories have made a very ig rod for their own backs, now being charged with dealing with the virus at a national level.

    Predictably, when combined with their self-imposed doctrinaire, ideological restrictions on how things may be done, the result is an utter shambles, which has cost and continues to cost many lives.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:02 am | Permalink

      Like Victoria in Oz? Like Scotland, where we have sold our Edinburgh flat and withdrawn completely because of Mad Sturgeon and the Westminster preference to ‘let her rip’ and destroy Scotland completely?

      • Everhopeful
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:06 am | Permalink

        Or is it to facilitate break-up of Union?

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

          Oh she’s doing ‘better’ than that. Scotland’s head is on the block. We call Scotland ‘Mary’.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

      We have more local elected mayors than ever before with power over their regions.

      Your post above makes little sense and resembles a student union bar speech on the first night of freshers week after two drinks,

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      I understand that the loss of smell is a significant symptom of Covid-19. Consequently I must be in excellent health as I can smell the stink coming out of the Senedd in Cardiff on a daily basis thanks to the leadership of complete dimwits!

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

      Martin, I’m glad we don’t have Manchester leaders and the Mayor and the Liverpool leaders and the Mayors (two of them) in charge of the whole of the North West, they are ineffective. They couldn’t even look after the people in their Cities. What is the point of them, you say everything is centralised but it isn’t! We are paying these local leaders who just want to pass the buck. Just what are they actually responsible for? What is in their job description? Is Burnham the equivalent of Khan or not? What is his remuneration – what is Khans? What are local police Chiefs and local Police commissioners in charge of, if newspaper journalists can easily find groups flouting the law why can’t our City police? What is in these leaders job descriptions? Aren’t they paid as much as the Prime Minister, which if so is ridiculous?

      We don’t get any FACTS on the news. Students in Manchester and Liverpool let covid rip, sharing bathrooms and kitchens in their student accommodation, doing things that teenagers do. Just precisely how many of them are on drug treatment for covid right now? Exactly precisely how many of them are in hospital with covid complications? If none why can’t they be contained in their student areas, agreed coned off areas and their own pubs with warnings to everyone else not to go there. Let them build immunity. The government wanted them all to take up their places in their student lodgings so that the Students have to pay and the burden of those empty buildings doesn’t fall on government but has this actually been dangerous?

      John, just in your constituency, do you have a hospital? Can’t you just extract the information from this one hospital? Who is being treated, interview them, how do they feel they caught covid, where and who do they think they caught it off and was it tracked back to a source? Why does it seem like our Health department is just guessing.

      The Guardian with their accusations about fraudulent new businesses claiming resources, have they given all this evidence to Sunak? Has he followed up on it?
      We don’t believe anything on the news anymore. I find it hard to believe newspapers without any facts. As for the government…you are treating us like fools and while you’re all safe and secure at the moment paid even if you break the law people are losing their livelihoods their career made unviable by the government choice without even telling them what facts you have that it is from their xx being open.

      Reply There is no general NHS hospital in my constituency

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:07 am | Permalink

        Reply to reply – and that fact is troubling.

        a-tracy – mayors are indeed a tremendous waste of money, along the same same lines as Scottish and Welsh county councils.

    • NickC
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:27 am | Permalink

      Martin, Much of that “power” should not have been in the hands of doctrinaire socialist local authorities in the first place. Too much responsibility has been taken off the people. Hence the sort of infantilism displayed by Remains where they think agitation and sulks are a remedy against democracy.

      • bill brown
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink


        I am afraid you will hae to be more clear with examples to be taken seriously

        • NickC
          Posted October 11, 2020 at 10:59 am | Permalink

          Bill, Remains started calling Leaves thick for voting Leave from 24 June 2016. That’s an example of Remain infantilism.

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

      Yes, Martin, do you think Scotland is much better with its devolved decision making!! They can put up their own taxes to pay for all their big giveaways and not just expect the English taxpayers to prop up their lockdown.

  13. Lifelogic
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    So Prince William has announced “the most prestigious environment prize in history” to encourage new solutions to tackling the climate crisis. The “Earthshot prize” will be awarded to five people every year over the next decade, the Prince said on Tuesday, and aims to provide at least 50 answers to some of the greatest problems facing the planet by 2030.

    A few obvious suggestions: Limit various Princes personal travel expenditure to £10,000 PA rather than £1 million plus as now and make them live in flats/houses of no more than 600 sq ft. Far cheaper to heat small houses than castles and mansions. This could be relaxed if they promised not to lecuture others on their carbon emissions. Perhaps extend this to Emma Thompson types too.

    The real climate catastrophe is caused by the climate alarmist religion itself (and idiotic war on plant food) which is costing billions and doing huge net harm.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:03 am | Permalink


    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      They just love these stupid names!
      “Earthshot”…”Moonshot” ( plan for universal weekly Covid testing).
      Yuk! Pathetic.
      Is the terrorising with the plague not working so well…so they are reverting to climate terror?

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink


      That would be a start

    • Nigl
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink


    • BW
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

      Stop paying and rewarding people for having large families. It is population growth that will eventually destroy the planet. When they start talking seriously about that. I will take Climate change seriously.

      • James Bertram
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

        Regards population growth: Some suggest the purpose of this fake pandemic is to introduce a vaccine, or series of vaccines, with elements that will result in mass infertility. That would still be regarded as ‘conspiracy theory’.

        However, there seems no doubt that Western Governments are now pursuing a strategy of a vaccine at all cost (and against all real need, or evidence that a vaccine is the magic bullet); and some MPs such as Tobias Ellwood are already suggesting compulsory vaccination in exchange for ‘health passports’.

        There seems no doubt that Johnson, Germany, and US Democrats, wish to reset the economy towards a Green Agenda – part of The Great Reset as promoted by the World Economic Forum.

        There is no doubt that Johnson and other Western Governments are running dictatorial regimes, unaccountable to the people, and our politicians are either complicit or too spineless to stop them.

        And none of these last three ‘conspiracy theories’ above are any longer ‘conspiracy theories’; they were predicted way back by so-called ‘conspiracy theorists’ and now are happening before our very eyes.

        God help us.

        • TooleyStu
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

          Wow.. well said.

          Nice to see someone who has joined up the dots.
          When you know the ‘end game’ it is much easier to see the steps being taken.

          In fact, there is a load of sense now being typed on this blog.

          Best regards, as always,
          Tooley Stu

          • James Bertram
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:19 am | Permalink

            Thanks, TS

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:53 am | Permalink


      Gary Lineker too please.

      I want his refugee experience so that he and his kids have to stand in the same queue and share the same proximity as we do.

      I agree with asylum for genuine cases and am on nodding acquaintances with some, though the language barrier is there.

      It is not for the likes of Lineker to lecture me on this.

    • Sir Patrick Vaccine
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:37 am | Permalink

      All these Climate Zealots from Al Bore to Attenbore, not to mention a few princes in between should live the lives of we mere mortals.

    • DavidJ
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

      No chance LL; government and royalty are in hock to the globalists who originated the “climate alarmist religion”.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      thats the Monarchy dead in the water then

      cannot see much support for it once the current Queen dies

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

        +1 Meghan was the last straw.

  14. Sakara Gold
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

    If you really wish to reduce the current highly concerning and very fast spread of the Chinese plague virus, you could do worse than to support your colleagues Jeremy Hunt and Greg Clark in their rapid, cross-party investigation into the UK’s handling of the crisis. They have announced that the inquiry would aim to produce interim recommendations along the way and a report by the spring.

    Following the latest test and trace fiasco presided over by Hancock and Harding, in which 16,000 confirmed cases became “lost” in the system – apparently due to the use of obsolete spreadsheet software – it seems that as many as 48,000 contacts of positive cases may not have been traced.

    Look, this is not a time to play politics with the virus crisis. The number of hospital cases and fatalities is, as predicted, rapidly rising. As I have blogged here on many occaisions, Johnson should accept Hancock’s offer to resign, remove Harding and bring in people with business experience and experience of the NHS to get a grip. I’ll leave it to you and the party to decide who best to parachute in, but time is of the essence.

    It is difficult to see where this is going to go this winter, but blaming the public and the students for “not following the rules” is counter-productive and unfair. After all, Johnson told them to go back to work in their offices, universities and the pubs.

    Failure to get a grip on the situation will inevitably result in the NHS being overwhelmed and who knows, it would only take one superspreader in Wokingham who has been missed by the NHS Test and Trace system and it could start getting personal

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      Jeremy Hunt was for years (5 years was it) Health Sectretary and yet he did almost nothing to sort out the dire state monopoly NHS that fails so many people so frequently. The pandemic planning was clearly totally inept too.

      Nothing to get more freedom and choice into the appalling system.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      For born-to-rule-at-any-cost Tories, no matter how grave the national position, it is ALWAYS the time to play politics.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

        Labour has been in power too.

    • IanT
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      I do feel a level of sympathy with Boris and Co when the media start hauling off on them about matters concerning the actual administration of the NHS. They have the unenvial task of trying to push things forward from the end of a long string.

      The fact is that the NHS comprises a large number of Trusts, Quangos and privately owned Partnerships (e.g. Doctors Surgeries) that are very much self-governing – and like it that way. This is also true of their IT systems and its management.

      For instance, unless there has been a significant change in policy, the UK Government has an agreement with Microsoft that enables any NHS system to install and use the latest versions of MS software – including of course Excel. This is at no cost to NHS Trusts, it’s managed and funded centrally. So why are parts of the NHS still using pre-2007 versions of Excel?

      This isn’t a failure of central Government policy – it is a failure of local NHS IT management – probably because they’ve failed to manage their legacy IT systems. I used to deal with these people professionally and know first hand the issues. NHS IT is a nightmare but not one created by Boris or Dido Harding – so if folk want to get upset about this – start kicking the over-paid and underperforming NHS Trust and Quango Boards that are actually responsible for these IT fiascos.

    • Christine
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

      This week’s ONS statement:

      “Of the deaths registered in Week 39, 215 mentioned “novel coronavirus (COVID-19)”, accounting for 2.2% of all deaths in England and Wales; this is an increase compared with Week 38 (76 deaths higher).”

      Note this states the Death Certificate mentioned COVID not that the person died from COVID.

      Politicians can show alarming rises by using percentage increases in cases but at the end of the day, we are seeing tiny figures. Certainly not enough to justify the damage being inflicted on our economy and other medical treatments.

    • forthurst
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

      They were using an older version of Excel to store case data; however the problem cannot be blamed on that for two reasons. Firstly, before using any form of computer package software for a particular function, the first thing that is done is to estimate the maxima which could apply to the data and ensure that the selected tool has sufficient capacity. The second point is that controls should incorporated to ensure that the data as stored retains its overall integrity.

      My understanding is that the xls format is widely used by the civil service to store just about everything irrespective of whether an old version of Excel is the right tool.
      However, they like to use it because they can, not having any general IR expertise.
      A little knowledge is dangerous.

      • forthurst
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

        …IT expertise

  15. Mike Wroe
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:46 am | Permalink

    New study suggests herd immunity rather than social distancing could have saved more lives, new study finds. Why do we continue to destroy our country’s economy with this madness. 1600 people die every day, only 53 with Covid. Very few in under 65s. Let them go back to work and back to normal.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:57 am | Permalink

      Herd immunity – more properly Survivor Immunity – would require upwards of seventy percent of the population to contract the disease.

      Only about seven percent have had it so far, resulting in perhaps seventy thousand dead directly.

      So without more, your idea suggests many times that number would die.

      Your post stands reason on its head.

      There’s no proof that having had the illness confers lasting immunity anyway.

      • Richard1
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

        You have no clue what you are talking about.

      • Roy Grainger
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

        No the herd immunity threshold is not 70% – it is only that in a community with homogeneous spread of the virus. Also your 70,000 dead number is made up.

      • villaking
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:47 am | Permalink

        MiC, we can not possibly know how many have had it so far, the most common symptom is to feel absolutely fine. The virus is harmless to the vast majority of the population, flu is more dangerous. Yet still you want the state to try and control the uncontrollable. This is madness. We may never have a vaccine, will you tolerate this forever?

      • Mike Wroe
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

        4 out of 5 people show no symptoms so the 7% is nonsense. The restrictive measures just prolong the agony and don’t save lives. (See Sweden). Recovering from the illness will give people confidence that they have nothing to fear if not long term immunity. Flu And pneumonia is killing 10 times more than Covid And there is a vaccine for flu and pneumonia. Lockdown doesn’t work.

        • glen cullen
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:03 pm | Permalink


      • Caterpillar
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink


        As I suspect you are aware the 70% number is based on random vaccination of a homogeneous population. There are good reasons to expect a much lower number under sustainable behavioural patterns. Of course this Govt and its advisers have not encouraged sustainable behaviour patterns, and perhaps this is a reason they don’t talk about it.

        I also suspect you are aware of the questions asked as to whether the 7% antibodies number is only a proxy for the proportion infected and/or immune rather than the actual number (evidence that people develop T-cell immunity without antibodies, antibody waning, high thresholds in antibody tests, underlying cross-reactive immunity). Again the Govt and its advisers do not seem to comment on this.

        Finally, in terms of immunity, the WHO estimates about 10% of the world has been infected, but there seem to have been only been a couple of potential cases of reinfection. For SARS-1, immunity has lasted well over a decade.

        (In terms of the improving implied infection fatality ratio, again the Govt and its advisers appear to choose not to comment).

      • David L
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

        Two neighbouring South American countries, Brazil and Peru. In the former, President Bolsanaro took a completely irresponsible approach to his population’s health and let the disease take its course without hindrance. In the latter the Government imposed very strict lockdowns and other restrictions using the military to enforce them.
        The result? Infection rates and deaths pretty much the same in both. The many dissenting scientific and medical opinions that have been silenced the world over are now finding their voices, although a bit late I fear.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        Pack up all the cinemas, pack up all the pubs, pack up all the shops, pack up all the theatres, pack up all the festivals, pack up all the comedy shows, pack up all the sports venues, pack up most of the sports, pack up all the gyms, pack up all the games clubs… pack up all the routine treatments for illnesses…

        all of it must go.

        Don’t tell me that doesn’t result in death and lots of it. Including lots and lots of death in the emerging economies that used to sell us stuff.

        Utter hopelessness including among the old people I visit who have had enough of this.

        The give away here is that the Left decide now is the time to launch their assault against our culture and history – including against Churchill and the Cenotaph.

        • Philip P.
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

          And the young people too, when they see their jobs going. Bar staff are next: Greene King ‘is preparing to close dozens of venues and cut hundreds of jobs following a slump in trade exacerbated by the government’s 10pm hospitality industry curfew.’ (Sky News)

          The British Beer & Pubs Association has predicted 291,000 job losses,1/3 a third of the entire sector, as a result of the government’s restrictions.

          I wonder if our MPs have a view on this.

          • Ginty
            Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:22 pm | Permalink

            By next Summer (if not before) this Tory Government is going to be in office yet unable to govern.

            The Poll Tax demos will be dwarfed by what is to come.

            A general election will have to be called and they will be obliterated.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        Your upwards of 70% is complete nonsense. Many people are almost certainly not even susceptible to catching the virus. In New York about 25% have had it and they are pretty much at herd immunity now.

        • Fred H
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

          but his wild guess is as good as anybody else’s.

      • zorro
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:05 am | Permalink

        Wrong – some people will not COVID 19 anyway through previous exposure to similar coronaviruses – probably the reason for the lower death count in the Far East and far fewer obese people. Susceptibility for these types of illnesses can be around 20% of the population.


      • IanT
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

        A 20 year old is 1,000 times more likely to survive Coivd than I am Martin.

        The risk to young children is extremely low. I’m at much more risk when I see my grandchildren than they are. I can evaluate that risk and make my own conclusions. We (that is everyone) need a functioning economy to survive. Protect the old and vulnerable but get the rest back to work and play.

        If Boris really wants to confound Ms Sturgeon – he should let her bet her reputation on more & more lock-down and bet his future on protecting those parts of the population that actually need it – as well as the economy.

        “It’s the Economy Stupid! “

      • NickC
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

        Martin, “Herd Immunity” is a well known effect whereby those in the “herd” who do not have immunity are protected from the spread of a disease by the majority who do. You have simply failed to understand what herd immunity is. And one thing it positively isn’t is “survivor immunity”.

      • cornishstu
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

        There is very likely far more people who have actually had it with no symptoms to speak of, in addition there are many who will have a natural immunity through other immune functions of the body. It is a coronavirus, albeit, a new strain they have been around a long time, they are not new to the human immune system, they pick off the old and weak off. Winter flu 2019 was very mild so plenty of vulnerable people still around when this kicked off. There is more likely 70% who have some form of immunity. I used to think that man made climate change was the biggest scam perpetrated on mankind I am now starting to think otherwise.

      • Barbara
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

        The new study, run jointly by the universities of of Nottingham and Stockholm, says herd immunity is reached at a much lower percentage. They suggest 43% but the NY Times reported other researchers have said that herd immunity can be achieved at rates of immunity as low as 10 or 20 percent.

      • Mark
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

        A paper came out over two weeks ago looking at what happened in Manaus, Brazil. There were no lockdown measures, hospitals completely overwhelmed and no treatment available, and if anything more social contact once the epidemic broke out. Under such conditions you can expect the theoretical herd immunity limit to be exceeded by a substantial margin. They found that the epidemic appeared to have burned out with an estimated 66% infected and an infection fatality ratio of 0.28%. That is a Ferguson worst case scenario or worse in terms of epidemic spread. But 0.28% of 66% of our population would work out at about 125,000 deaths, or a quarter of the Ferguson estimate.

        With some epidemic management you can avoid overshooting the herd immunity level. There is plenty of research that supports much lower levels.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

      Because the “virus” isn’t really the “thing”.
      Watch Boris’ speech where he informs us that we don’t really want our lives back!

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:55 pm | Permalink

        He needs to be sectioned.

    • Richard1
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

      Indeed and from Imperial College also!

      It is increasingly clear in evidence from around the world that lockdowns don’t work they simply push the peak out. We cannot ‘defeat’ or ‘suppress’ the virus. 25k extra excess deaths in care homes not from the Wuhan virus. In other words from lock-down.

      Starmer and Labour are useless. Sort of arguing for even more restrictions but then sort of against any which turn out to be unpopular. The media, especially the BBC, are doing an appalling job at questioning the failed logic. So we need to rely on Conservative backbenchers not climbing the greasy pole to save the economy, our health and wellbeing and the prospects of young people from this idiocy.

      • Richard1
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

        Threat of this idiocy I should say. There is still a chance Boris will find his inner hero and overrule the shroud wavers.

        • zorro
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:59 am | Permalink

          I fear that in reality, he is now the principal shroud waver….


    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      There will come a time when everything else fails and our country/economy is destroyed….that this government will suggest herd immunity

      It effective against the common colds and winter flu

      Its the only real option

    • acorn
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

      “Three times as many people have died from Covid-19 than from flu and pneumonia in England and Wales this year, according to official figures. Between January and August 2020, there were 48,168 deaths due to Covid-19 compared to 13,500 from pneumonia. Only 394 were due to flu.” (ONS).

      “The mortality rate for Covid-19 is also significantly higher than influenza and pneumonia rates for both 2020 and the five-year average,” (ONS).

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

        Are they mixing up flu with covid? I wonder how many people usually die with the flu between January and August each year? There were around 50,100 excess winter deaths in England and Wales in 2017-18 they put a lot of it down to the ineffective flu jab. In one week alone in January 2018 758 people were admitted to hospital as a result of flu.

      • Caterpillar
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink


        I think the ONS data to which you refer is interesting. In the periods 1975 to 1984, and 1993 to 200o there were greater or approximately equal to 50,000 deaths each year (England & Wales) due to flu/pneumonia . The highest in the period Jan-August was 1976 about 46,000 compare with 48,000 to Covid this year. The population has increased about 20% since then.

        The ONS imply the decrease since 2000 has been due to the introduction of the flu vaccine (there might be some debate about this but we’ll just accept the point). What this shows is that even though there were near decade durations of lives lost at 50,000+ per year to flu/pneumonia the economy was not such down and thrown into depression whilst awaiting a vaccination programme. Moreover since the vaccination programme there are still typically 25,000 deaths per year.

        I would suggest the ONS report could be used as evidence to get on with life.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:14 pm | Permalink

        You have to question the 394 figure Acorn.

      • Jonah
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

        394 flu …. that’s odd there are normally between 8k and 28k deaths from flu each year. Can anybody explain?

  16. Andy
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Dear New Friends In The North,

    I am abolishing the 10pm rule just for you! And the rule of 6 is going! Just for you.

    Now you can’t go anywhere or meet anyone.

    But, don’t worry, there’s no financial help.


    Emperor Boris The First

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

      I bet they don’t feel very friendly at the mo!
      More like red raw from the bamboozling?

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink


        It’s all sounding ancient Greek to me too. How about Sturgeon run the show… oh… she IS running the show.

        • glen cullen
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:05 pm | Permalink


    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

      He’s so mad that having you as his scriptwriter would go unnoticed.

    • Christine
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      Do you know how patronising you sound? Us people of the North as you call us have had draconian measures in place since March. I can’t see my family as separate households aren’t allowed to mix. I haven’t been able to see them since March due to all the local lockdowns in place. I wish we could have the rule of 6. At least we could then meet in small groups.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:46 pm | Permalink

      How many people around the world would you help by allowing them to move to this country?

      • Andy
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

        As many as need help which, we know from experience, is not many.

        The problem with all you xenophobes is that the numbers prove you wrong. While we were in the EU in theory any EU citizen could have come here to live and work. 450m other people faced no legal restriction on moving to the UK. And well over 99% of them didn’t come. 447m just didn’t come. It turns out our benefits are not all you claim they are.

        And many of those who did come only came for a few years or for temporary jobs. Doing things like working in care homes or coffee shops while learning English and making friends. Picking fruit. Doing exactly the sort of jobs Brexiteers – who are the real benefit louts – won’t do themselves.

        So don’t worry. Most of the world does not want to come to live in your grim town, with grim weather and grim people.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

          Oh but you are wrong Andy. I can find 40 million in SA alone who would love an airline ticket. More than half have AIDS, so if they could only get here We would never return them because their home country can’t afford the £14kpa medication. Seem so unfair that only the rich (who can afford a plane ticket) get here. Let’s charter an airline, we could keep the Jumbos flying for decades!

          • bill brown
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            So according to your information 20 million people in SA have aids.?
            what a load of real nonsense from you again

          • a-tracy
            Posted October 11, 2020 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

            Lynn seems you were using aids figures for the whole of Africa:
            “There are roughly 23.8 million infected persons in all of Africa. 91% of the world’s HIV-positive children live in Africa. More than one million adults and children die every year from HIV/AIDS in Africa alone.” Do something org.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

          No limits?
          No controls?

          1% of the potential is many millions.
          Every year.

          • bill brown
            Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

            Edward 2

            Straight nonense again

  17. BJC
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    It’s irrelevant what sort of measures the government introduces, if they don’t take people with them it’s destined to fail, yet still MPs cocooned in their ivory tower fail to grasp this simple fact. Basing the destruction of our entire economy on a system that endlessly (and intermittently) counts a cause not a proven outcome, is ludicrous. It’s a virus, it doesn’t know or care about the time or place in its quest to find its next host.

    The reality is there’s an outside chance that Covid could cause someone to be hospitalised and eventually die……….or it might not. Cancer is a death sentence if left undiagnosed and untreated. What is the hallowed NHS saving itself for, if not to treat the sick?

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:30 am | Permalink


    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

      You could get a tiny splinter in your finger that might go septic and eventually require hospitalisation.
      But of course that would not happen if the hospital had been shut down except for Covid patients!
      I reckon that the NHS will go in The Great Reset.

    • Mitchel
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:35 am | Permalink

      Prussia,famously,was said to be an army with a country attached;contemporary UK is the National Health Soviet with the clapped out fragments of a state attached.

    • RichardP
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink


    • DavidJ
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

      Exactly. I wonder ho many of those with such a death sentence are being counted as Covid victims.

      Got to keep the narrative going, real or not!

  18. Everhopeful
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    Have the ones who want “strong guidance” ( probably a £10,000 fine-type guidance) actually read all the data about the “plague”?
    Or do they rely the alarmism of the BBC for their information?

  19. Nigl
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    Starmer has got the government skewered asking for evidence for these measures to be published. Your silence so far indicates there isn’t any, so policy further ruining parts of the economy based on panic?

    Time for Hancock to go to herald a new beginning.

    Re yesterday’s topic I see we are about to commit to continue to be signed up to the ECHR despite all the previous puff. So illegals will still have an appeals route to thwart our own wishes. So much for what Patel is telling us?

    • Sharon
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      We are of course signed up to the world Migrant free movement Pact.

      Why do we think we can pack our geographically tiny island with the rest of the world? Do the politicians read what they’re signing?

    • Longinus
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:04 am | Permalink

      Judge Patel by her (in)actions.

    • Sir Patrick Vaccine
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      Hancock should have gone after his first half hour.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

        this one certainly is not funny.

    • Mitchel
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      As for Patel,that old saying “empty vessels make the loudest noise” applies.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

      Quite shocking – sellout

  20. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    The lack of data in the public domain other than high level numbers fuels scaremongering and acquiescence from the meek.

    As has been written above the daily figures should include more information: age, job, working from home or not, underlying conditions, family members previously infected and most likely place of infection. These should be issued for cases, hospitalisations and deaths.

    Is the UK issuing recovered information yet? I have not seen it.

    Issuing these figures will influence public opinion for or against further measures and show that decisions are not taken based on feelings (like leaving Glasgow open).

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      I agree NS.

    • Mark
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:13 am | Permalink

      daily numbers should also include deaths from other causes that are higher up the scale so we get a more balanced view.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:17 pm | Permalink

        That would scare the bejesus out of all of us Mark

    • forthurst
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

      Unfortunately, a spreadsheet is a pretty useless tool for anything other than storing and analysing numerical data. The right tool for what you describe would be a relational database system; then you could store all the data you want in a format that can be subsequently extracted. My understanding is that the civil servants operating their spreadsheet(s) have simply been using free format to write data into the cells. Being Arts graduate types, however, its doubtful that the civil servants would understand such concepts as Data Analysis or Third Normal Form so they would need to employ professionals to construct the solution for them.

      What we have is a bunch of Arts graduates trying to solve a scientific problem; of course, there is no basis for the rule of six or pubs shut a ten; there is no data to support either.

      The test and trace operation should have been locally based from the off; we keep hearing about estimates of the Transmission Rate in local areas, but they are just that, whereas a database system could produce a mathematically derived figure for an area. Where are the clusters forming? All that exists is anecdotal evidence about a school or workplace or hostelry etc, but no possibility of creating a proper analysis of where the main spread risks exist in a local or nationally.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

        For £12 billion one would hope that they would employ some data professionals. There is still 6 months before IR35 legislation means they have to employ the consultants.

        If they were trying to save money they could have used Access instead of Excel on the same Office licence so it is not even a cost issue just a management one.

  21. Sharon
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

    Considering the number of open letters arriving in Downing Street from other virologists etc, members of the public questioning these lockdowns and restrictions …I find it unbelievable that not only are government not slowly relaxing the rules, but are talking about doing the opposite!

    When we are now talking about cases’- which are said to be inaccurate, the NHS is coping, deaths are still lower than those from cancer, flu etc – the vaccine protocols show all the Pharma companies are working on vaccines to reduce symptoms only!!!!! – why are we still trashing the economy, people’s lives, other illnesses are being ignored….

    Looking at the map of ‘cases’ most of the country could be unlocked with reminders to be mindful….

    Whoever is behind this (globally) are truly evil! And government seem complicit in our destruction.

  22. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:12 am | Permalink

    I have long argued that the “cure” was far worse than the disease and so it has proved and will only get worse until this madness is ended. Nine months of brain washing, instilling fear, taking away personal liberty and freedom and acting like dictators has been the government’s strategy. I have experienced nothing like it in my lifetime which included flu epedemics far more deadly than CV19. It beggars belief that MPs have been so pathetically useless throughout, happily drawing good salaries and doing nothing. Having seen the devastation that they have already caused and thretening even more there are just two explanations for this government’s behaviour: 1. this was a co-ordinated worldwide event to which they signed up and are implementing with more sinister ramifications still to come or 2. they have made such a hash of things that they can’t find a way out without exposing their own incompetence. Which is it?

    • Sharon
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      Brian T

      It’s looking more and more like 1)

  23. Ian @Barkham
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    With you on your thoughts for the most part.

    While acknowledging that no Government has experience of this situation you have to question the Political Decisions being made. This epidemic all kicked off with a crisis in London – so the whole country was locked down, WHY?

    Now Corvid-19 has moved to other regions the feeling is they are being punished for a 2nd time when they should not have been restricted the first time out. The real problem in these scenarios is the Government is making up Draconian Laws with no evidence to support their actions, and they have removed the Democratic process for these Authoritarian dictates. There basis is on a guess, a hunch there has been no science so why call it that.

    If this had been a Democratic Government they would offered advice ONLY on these hunches, then permitted the People to make the right decision for their circumstances.

    Even now they don’t get it, because they don’t leave their Metro bubble. The North is vast it is also sparsely populated, the so-called hot spots are in contained areas. So why punish so many.

  24. Caterpillar
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    This Govt makes decisions without setting out any simple clarifications (such as I indicated above http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2020/10/04/the-rule-of-6/#comment-1161471).

    At the very least the Govt should not toughen up until after the Oct 13th ONS release of England & Wales number of deaths – though of limited use without the other answers, it might give some indication of whether impact of ‘second wave’ is flowing through to short term total deaths (all Sept data will be in) i.e. next Tuesday ‘we’ ought to compare what happened to deaths dramatically from week 13 to week 14 in Mar/April to week 39 to week 40 Sept/Oct ) . The reason for this is that the England and Wales are at the time of year in which weekly deaths increase, so we are back to the with/of argument for hospitalised patients (just plot 2018, 2019 and 2020 weekly deaths vs week number to appreciate the issue).

  25. Chris Dark
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

    This is and was never really about a virus. The social control tools being used on populations now are beyond a joke. Many people know exactly what is desired by government from this so-called pandemic. Health passports; movement control; more tracking and tracing; continuing the fearmongering by making people look like leprosy-carriers until they’ve complied with all the demands to put on their own balls-and-chains. It’s funny how the phrase BuildBackBetter is popping up all round the world…I wonder why? Clearly a huge global crash of everything is intended, to be followed by reconstruction along Green environment lines, it doesn’t take much imagination to work out where that will all lead. Indeed BuildBackBetter has its own website; it tells you all you need to know.

  26. Bryan Harris
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    The more opposition to the governments heavy handed approach to surviving the virus the better…. Time they came up with some original thoughts instead of following their ‘advisors’ like lemmings.

    Seems they have to be forced to even think of the possibility of a PLAN-B.

    Do not expect any logic or rational behaviour from labour — they have a history of letting us all down when we badly needed something useful to happen

  27. Adam
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

    Allowing ANY SIX risks danger!

    Nail your colours to the Mask
    Graham Green

    GREEN Mask
    BLUE Mask
    ORANGE Mask
    RED Mask
    YELL Mask
    MAUVE Mask

    Govt rules who wears what and when!
    Which colour mask should YOU wear?
    What combinations attract safety?

    • Adam
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 6:28 am | Permalink

      Perhaps, Adam you should have indicated what the colours signify, and that we can then see the safer places to be, such as:

      GREEN……Tested Safe
      BLUE………..Medical & Emergency services
      ORANGE…Young & healthy
      RED..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!At Risk
      MAUVE……!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Aged 70+
      YEEEEEELLLLLLLLLL… !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if you need Help NOW

      Oh, thanks; I’ll try to think first next time.

  28. Freeborn John
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    There are so many reports now of disturbing climb downs by the U.K. in brexit negotiations on multi-year fishing access, permanent ECHR membership, “state aid” rules which will allow permanent interference by the EU, etc. Why are U.K. governments such incredibly bad negotiators who bluff and climb down and get sucked into obvious traps that leave them on the hook for reinterpretation of what they signed up?

  29. Roy Grainger
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    The reason the government didn’t allow a vote on the curfew is not because they are reconsidering it, it is simply that they didn’t want to lose the vote. You won’t get a vote on it.

  30. Fred H
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Sir John – you may try to cover your tracks – but you failed to act, when clarity was required. The vote FOR or AGAINST was so easy. Abstaining is cowardly. You seem to say the Rule of 6 is unproven and damaging yet you didn’t vote against!
    You are in the Commons to vote, not to gather in corners plotting.
    Force the Government to think again.
    I expected better.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:09 pm | Permalink


  31. Nigl
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    A 12 billion pound test and can’t trace system unable to work because of a basic excel spreadsheet error. A Whitehall farce not funny any more.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

      An excel spreadsheet error that wouldn’t have happened with any version of excel released since 2010 but costing money.

      £12 billion? Where did that go?

      • Mark
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

        Spreadsheets really are not the way to deal with storing this data. A proper database is required.

        • Narrow Shoulders
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

          Agree but just pointing out that to do it on the cheap was still possible but they didn’t even update the “wrong” application.

          Where do our taxes go, surely not on wages for the upper echelons of the civil service and expenses for Lords and MPs

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:52 pm | Permalink

      Prof Ferguson used the same one for his other estimates.

  32. Philip Haynes
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Of course it gives largely immunity for the vast majority at least – as can be seen from the way the infection has progessed and largely died away in many areas that suffered more in the first wave. We cannot hide for ever.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

      London is increasing rather quickly

  33. James Freeman
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:50 am | Permalink

    The current evidence shows Covid is spreading in workplaces, Universities and care homes. Focus on reducing the risk in these settings. Only a small fraction is taking place in pubs.

    For example re-circulation of air via heating systems is a huge risk. Mitigate this by installing HEPA filters or only allow use of outside air. You should encourage opening of windows, even if this increases heating bills. If are no alternatives focus your freedom restrictions to campus’ and care homes.

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

      The evidence is sketchy and not complete, charts were given to the press yesterday that only show where 50% of the common exposures are.. it says its only early analysis? Why this analysis has been going on for months if they were more specific we would get better ideas of where to avoid for ourselves to make that decision.

      Labels are too vast:
      Pub/bar (eating out, and entertainment and day trips) why are they all grouped together? all ages 14%
      Restaurant or cafe (any, eating out) all ages 9.6%
      Food and drink (working in hospitality) all ages 6.2%

      does that mean they are double/triple counting?
      The % only add up to 66%

      How do you know that re-circulation of air via heating systems is a huge risk? I don’t think student accomodations would have this type of heating system and by far the biggest spread is in University students, however, they always catch and spread some pretty serious bugs/illness in their first term in University.

  34. Everhopeful
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

    I wonder what Mrs T. would have thought?
    Trashing the economy for the “flu”.
    And then debating the trashing endlessly and pointlessly.
    We all know how she tried to resist a similar campaign.
    And failed.

  35. villaking
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:52 am | Permalink

    Sir John, the whole debate and vote on the curfew time seems academic and irrelevant. The BBC, for all its faults, is very well briefed by inside sources and it therefore seems certain that the pubs and restaurants will be closed again for an indefinite period. I hope in vain you MPs will do something about this but I expect that Matt Hancock will use an SI again and say it is an emergency.

  36. Dave Andrews
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

    Why is having pubs and restaurants open a problem in the North but not in the South West, seeing as closing them is looked on as a solution to infection rates?

  37. Jess
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Can you explain to us Mr Redwood why we have any measures at all against a disease that is the 24th deadliest killer currently (if you believe the manipulated figures)?

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

      Agree with your comments – I too would like an answer

    • miami.mode
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

      Heart disease, cancers, strokes, etc are not contagious and often do not necessitate a long stay in hospital. Your proof that figures are manipulated?

  38. Lester Cynic Beedell
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

    Prince William seems to have joined the Climate Alarmist wing, I suppose the fact that his father has been banging that particular drum for many years we shouldn’t be surprised?

    Boris is obviously taking orders from Carrie on that subject, all I can say is God help us, the lunacy of the Greencrap is evident to anyone with an ounce of common sense, I’m usually an optimistic sort of chap but recently I’ve entered a spiral of depression, each day the Telegraph reports on yet more idiotic schemes 🙄🙄

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

      They’re trying to be the new Nobel Prize…..haven’t they got anything better to do ?

  39. a-tracy
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    The newspaper announces pubs are being closed shortly in the North West (who told the press?)

    This is Hancock’s job – at the same time tell us what provisions financially Sunak has put in place for these businesses eg. do all their staff go back on full furlough? How much can the business get in compensation for being closed? How long is it to be for a fortnight, a month?

    What evidence is there that it is the pubs and restaurants that have spread this even though they have been taking all the government guideline precautions? How many of the pub and restaurant staff have been tested covid +?

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      Also if this is down to people that ate out to eat out why are “England’s poorest communities are nearly four times as likely to face lockdown restrictions as the wealthiest areas” surely it follows that the wealthiest areas would have taken more advantage of eating out is there a correlation?

      • miami.mode
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

        Burger bars and suchlike were doing meals at half price.

        • a-tracy
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

          Yes, didn’t burger bars had to wear masks and keep social distances, the people I saw at the big burger chain didn’t eat together inside.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

      Evidence – and answer came there none.

  40. Nigl
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Politics Home highlights another shambles, the announcement of Covid marshals. No pre warning, no funding, no guidance almost no one hired.

    Allegedly a major plank of the governments Covid management.,

  41. Everhopeful
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Dear JR,
    You must know that the “Rule of Six” is a name merely plucked out of the scientific blurb pertaining to RNA viruses.
    It has no basis in any sane thought process with regard to viral spread.
    Just like the rest of all this satanic takeover.
    Yours, in fear for our future,

  42. gregory martin
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    We would all be interested in the results of forensic spotchecks for signs of virus on surfaces and atmospheres in publicly used transportation, facilities and workplaces. This should be done by Environmental Health departments of local authorities, and repeated regularly. This to be emphasised in areas of high infection and without exclusion to health and social provision. It could result in rating of risk as is done in most catering/takeaway premises for biological risk.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:25 pm | Permalink


    • Sharon
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

      I think the underground was recently checked for the virus and it was found to be clear!!

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

        Was that ‘political’? They want people on the tubes. They might have swabbed the places they knew would be clear.

  43. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

    Social distancing is the most destructive measure by far.

    Shield those who need it – but only if they want it. Several of the old people I visit say they that life is barely worth living now.

    They insist (nay beg) that I still go regardless of the news.

  44. Nigl
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    Ps and lo and behold the government announces a 30 million package for toothless enforcers, only a month late and yet more time before they get up to speed, if ever.

  45. AndyC
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    When and how does any of this end? There is no public health crisis, yet our freedoms, prosperity and wellbeing are being systematically trashed.

    I’ve never been as depressed and fearful for the future of this country as now.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      Join the multitude.

    • steve
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink


      “I’ve never been as depressed and fearful for the future of this country as now.”

      …Bide your time mate, keep yourself fit and as independent from the state as possible, there is going to be one hell of a reckoning in this country.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

        I’m afraid I agree. I’m still hoping Parliament will assert itself and obviate what will surely follow their surrender.

      • Original Chris
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

        Yes, Steve, and maybe sooner than many realise. If P Trump wins the election many of these contrived charades will be smashed.

    • Sharon
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:51 pm | Permalink


      And even a friend or two who never question anything are starting to say they’re fed up, and that the high numbers of ‘cases’ don’t seem right!

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

      I fear a lot of old and possibly the vulnerable, including stage 3 & 4 cancer victims will be contemplating that bottle of aspirins they have ready.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        And many without disease of any kind at all….

  46. BW
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    I think we are getting to the point where the cure is worse than the disease. It is great and easy to be wise in hindsight but I am dam sure I have no real answers.

    Perhaps remove the punitive fines. Give the best guidance to avoid the virus and let people make their decisions. I don’t think another lockdown of the economy is a good idea. Perhaps give the decision making to local authorities who may be more aware. It would be good to see local authorities step up to the mark instead of bashing Boris every day depending, not on the virus but their political persuasion.

    The 10 PM curfew makes no sense at all for all the reasons already stated.

  47. Bob Dixon
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

    What comes first The Policy or The Marshalls?

  48. Lifelogic
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

    Excellent piece by Rod Liddle today in the Spectator on the 1oo Great Black Britons book:-

    “There are two striking thing …….The first is the sheer number of people included who are ghastly or mediocre or both. The second is the number of truly brilliant black Britons who were left off the list — for reasons which are not, I think, terribly mysterious.”

    He suggests Trevor Philips for the BBC which sounds a reasonable choice for me as Charles Moore is alas not available.

    • Iain Moore
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

      The race apartheid agenda is being driven by the left, with the result they are the ones who get honoured.

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

        Have you noticed that only this year the BBC has been pushing black history month – an event which was started and remained only in the USA since 1976

  49. Iago
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

    I see the charlatan we have for a prime minister is now promising “full control” from January 1st.

  50. The Prangwizard
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Maybe soon as it is urgent, as a break from all this we can have a discussion about the future of England. England is a failing nation. No-one in tne Tory party no Tory MP speaks for England. None put England first.

    England has the Union hanging round its neck like a millstone. England is never prioritized and will never be until we are free, first of the EU and then of the UK. Whatever anyone may think about the politics of the SNP they have given Scotland a distinctive identity. They are proud to market themselves and their products. They are not afraid to mention Scotland. They are building a nation.

    In England we have the opposite. We are not to be mentioned. Further decline and invisibility is our future unless there is change.

    We must have leaders MPs, opinion formers and the English speaking out. And we must have a true parliament.

    • JoolsB
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

      The Tories treat England with contempt. England – never to be mentioned by name. The fact we are denied a voice and get far less money per head than the rest of the dis-UK is totally ignored by our so called self serving representatives. The only time they show any interest in us is when they want our votes and need our money to spend on their beloved union, the part that’s not England that is. They treat us like idiots – don’t mention England even when most of their policies only apply to England and we won’t notice the rotten deal our kids, sick and elderly get compared to the rest of the dis-UK. And Johnson is promising the rest of the dis-UK 70 extra new powers, England NOTHING.
      We need to start treating them with equal contempt.

  51. zorro
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

    The elephant in the room is Our Dear Leader’s speech which JR has noticeably made no reference to whatsoever…..

    Here below are a few gems from the speech…. He is a fully paid up globalist, the proof is in the pudding… None of this ‘Great Reset/Green Industrial Revolution’ was in the manifesto. The country fuelled by wind power???

    “I can tell you that your government is working night and day to repel this virus, and we will succeed, just as this country has seen off every alien invader for the last thousand years and we will succeed by collective effort…” – Can he really actually believe this?

    “We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.” – Channeling WW2 and the Beveridge Report perhaps?

    ‘Build Back Better” – Now where have I seen/heard that phrase before? https://www.lse.ac.uk/News/Latest-news-from-LSE/2020/g-July-20/Build-Back-Better-The-five-key-areas-for-a-post-pandemic-recovery

    “with a national Advanced Research and Projects Agency” – Wow, we get our own DARPA…

    “We will fix the injustice of care home funding, bringing the magic of averages to the rescue of millions.” – We ALL know what that means…

    “I can today announce that the UK government has decided to become the world leader in low cost clean power generation – cheaper than coal, cheaper than gas; and we believe that in ten years time offshore wind will be powering every home in the country, with our target rising from 30 gigawatts to 40 gigawatts.”….Hahahahaha

    “I remember how some people used to sneer at wind power, twenty years ago, and say that it wouldn’t pull the skin off a rice pudding.They forgot the history of this country. It was offshore wind that puffed the sails of Drake and Raleigh and Nelson, and propelled this country to commercial greatness.” – Is he sane?

    “Mother nature has savaged us with Covid, but with the help of basic natural phenomena we will build back and bounce back greener; and this government will lead that green industrial revolution.” – Never let a good opportunity go to waste eh?

    “We want to level up – they want to level down.” – Really, you are doing exactly the opposite!

    “you arrive in your zero carbon jet made in the UK and you flash your Brexit blue passport or your digital ID,” – Er..OK, but what exactly is a digital ID instead of a passport. What does he mean JR?

    Come on JR, you know that you want to address his vision surely?


    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

      Boris is nolonger getting my vote – please pass on my notice

    • Original Chris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

      “Mother nature has savaged us with Covid”. Who is he kidding? China did.

    • Mark
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:41 pm | Permalink

      Carbon composites have helped make aircraft lighter and more fuel efficient. Zero carbon would be a bacward step.

  52. XYXY
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:27 am | Permalink

    The last paragraph is a little unworthy. It did command a majority of the possible votes i the commons because abstention is a valid vote.

    We must be careful to avoid this kind of pseudo-logic since it lends credence to the usual whining of the losers such as “Trump didn’t win the popular vote” and “Brexit didn’t command a majority of the British people”.

    The latter is only possible because they count people who were eligible to vote, but chose not to do so for whatever reason – as non-voters they have effectively abstained.

    Also, counting what the Opposition do as being worth much of anything is… flawed. They often act/vote based on political motivations rather than anything to do with good governance.

    So, as the saying goes, please be careful not to make a rod for your own back!

  53. JayGee
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Alongside the published Covid figures, has anyone been made responsible for analysing the data that is far more relevant to the pandemic and the way it is spreading itself? Namely, gender, age, address of residence at time of contracting CV-19, past medical history of conditions that may increase susceptibility to Covid, family members, living conditions, occupation etc etc etc. It is vitally important for us to know that kind of information, rather than bald stats.

    Also, please ask your colleagues in Westminster to stop playing party politics; dump the slogans; ditch dishing the dirt. Put an stop to the R-slicking that is all too obvious if you watch PMQs and many of the badly attended debates. What is happening is far more important than point scoring, simply to promote a career that may vanish before the slickers can blink.

    If you want public opinion to support the decisions you make and which then influence our live, you have to be straight with the public.

    • JayGee
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

      Bump up the moderation

  54. JoolsB
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    Could you please tell us John how the SNP, DUP, Plaid Cymru etc. voted on the rule of six for England?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

      Because that is the Constitutional settlement. The was not meant to be ‘devolution’.

  55. Stred
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

    The initial report by Imperial predicted that a successful initial suppression would lead to less herd immunity and more deaths later. They had a graph showing an increase in October. They also recognised that closing universities and schools was necessary but these are now open, with even more students. It is unreasonable to expect that closing pubs or altering closing times will make any noticeable difference. There was an estimate that only 5% of positive tests were due to pub and restaurant contacts.

    The idea that younger healthy people should carry on as normal and allow the disease to spread and achieve 70% hetd immunity is not a new idea from eccentric unqualified doctors. It was considered in the report that triggered lockdown. With the economy opened up to a considerable extent there is nothing to stop this happening and wrecking pubs and restaurants is pointless.

    However, protecting the vulnerable is not going to be easy. We heard of a colleague whose fathet aged 78 had caught the virus and is now very ill, having been completely isolated since March. He had taken his car to the garage and picked it up without disinfecting all the surfaces and controls. One mistake could be deadly for oldies.

  56. turboterrier
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    The SS United Kingdom is at present without a rudder, little or no engine control, and no captain or executives on the bridge.

    We are at the mercy of the wind, tide in the form of the EU, CV, CC and bad past legislation as we drift helplessly to wherever they take us.

    So much for standing firm against the EU, real decisions about the dingy navy, energy policies the list is endless and goes on and on.

    Will someone (anybody) blow the whistle call time out and let’s stop, think and act and then give the people of this country something we can really believe in. The country cannot proceed in the manner it is, for too much longer.

    One has to ask the question. Do the present incumbents of parliament really want to be free to govern themselves or stay tied in to a failing Europe so as they can not be held responsible or accountable for what ever may befall us.

    • Original Chris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

      SS United Kingdom without a rudder. Solution: we need a “Red October”.

      Someone at the helm who has knowledge, courage and conviction.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

        after thinking long and hard I’ve drawn a blank……any ideas?

  57. George Brooks.
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    From where I am sitting, Sir John, which is a very long way from Westminster, it looks like the government is being held hostage to a very active subversive left wing element running through PHE and to a lesser extent the NHS. They are having to walk a tightrope between health and the economy and the rule of 6 and the curfew are a clear illustration of this. Fairly useless with damage limitation on the economy.

    We have had two glaring examples of how this subversive element has discredited the government and the media have had a field day. After the mess that the NHS DP technicians made of the ‘test & trace’ app a Google/Apple team developed and brought into use quickly and successfully. Then it was suddenly announced that part of the England data would not download but this was rectified within 4 to 5 hours. That omission has to be sabotage as one cannot believe that the PHE/NHS computer staff are really that stupid.

    Then we get the failure of data transfer from a spread sheet to the test & trace system. Again this has to be deliberate sabotage and on this occasion it does not have the face-saving excuse of the staff being totally incompetent and utterly useless.

    This Marxist left wing movement wants to bring this government and the whole country down. Stop covering up for the failure of the Civil Service, point the finger and remove the canker.

    If those involved had been working in the private sector they would be down at the job centre by now with their P45.

  58. rose
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

    Try and get the Rule of Six amended to exclude young children, and come into line with the rest of the country. It could have been done at the inception, but for the mendacity of Mrs Sturgeon.

    On the ten o’ clock closing time, I am not so sure. After all, that is what we used to have before Blair brought in his civilization destroying 24 hour drinking. This was a major factor in driving people out of cities and bringing about their decline.

    It is very disturbing to people who have to work or go to school the next day to have drunks going past at all hours; and then to have to go out in the morning and pick their way through the piles of sick and broken glass, blood too, sometimes. This was no sort of “economy” to be proud of, and one of the good things about this pandemic has been the peace at night, and an unaccustomed good night’s sleep. Under Blair’s regime, it was quite normal for people not to turn up at work in the morning because they had been out all night drinking. This social and economic blight continued under Cameron and his successors. It should be tackled again, just as it was in the 19th and 20th centuries, as we are not Latin, neither is our climate.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

      +1 But 10.30 last orders.

      Much more civilised.

      Gambling laws put back too please.

  59. Nigl
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:14 am | Permalink

    Ps looks as if we are giving in on subsidy as well. Leaving but not leaving. So much for the No Deal and dead lines bolleaux we are being fed.

  60. BOF
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    What it boils down to Sir John, is that when we have a Government that makes extremely bad decisions, it is well nigh impossible to reign them in because most MP,s sitting on the back benches are little more than lobby fodder. Add to that, the bloated Government benches of yes men and women obliged to vote for whatever nonsense is put in front of them or lose their non job.

    We have seen this before with the appalling Mrs May and Brexit, her gender politics and zero carbon.

    Now that the Government has a solid majority of 80 all they do is use it to abuse the electorate. In this case, to cause untold harm to the country.

    Reply Not so. The issue is what will the Opposition oppose, as there only need b e just over 40 Conservative rebels to win a vote when the Opposition opposes. On the things most people on this site want changed the Opposition is with the government and worse.

    • BOF
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

      I appreciate that, but when the renewal of the appalling Coronavirus Act was being renewed the opposition abstained and a mere handful of Conservatives opposed. I do not see a Government being held to account.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply.
      Doesn’t that fact alarm those who vote for totalitarian and destructive measures? ie that they agree with Labour.
      Should they cross the house and join the opposition for good?
      Join those who really only want to bring down the economy?

  61. Wokinghamite
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:34 am | Permalink

    I’m surprised that people want to oppose the government’s modest measures at a time like this. COVID-19 is spreading again. There is an obvious threat to people’s lives, and also the danger of our health service being overwhelmed. We need more controls, not less.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

      How much more will lives be threatened by absolute poverty?
      How are lives going in Venezuela?

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

      modest measures? – you have to be joking.
      Funeral Directors will be overwhelmed with suicide cases soon.

  62. BW
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:36 am | Permalink

    As far as I can see in Wokingham the pubs have gone out of their way to be covid compliant and I think they have done an excellent job. The rate of infection here is low so it is not the pubs that are at fault.
    I cannot see why it is ok to go to school and university (we all know that is some party!) yet it is not ok to be in a covid compliant pub after 10pm. Is it the night clubs they are trying to stop. If so leave the pubs alone.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

      Try telling that to the staff at the ‘Walter Arms’

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:43 pm | Permalink

      From UN New
      21st September 2018

      “All countries can do much more to reduce the health and social costs of the harmful use of alcohol,” said Dr. Vladimir Poznyak, Coordinator of WHO’s Management of Substance Abuse unit. “Proven, cost-effective actions include increasing taxes on alcoholic drinks, bans or restrictions on alcohol advertising, and restricting the physical availability of alcohol.”

      All part of The Great Reset.

      Learn how to make beer and wine.

  63. Christine
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    I am so angry with our Government and the MSM. News headlines today cherry picking the worst bits of the statistics just to alarm people. It’s as if they want to keep this hoax going. People are getting to the end of their tether with all this nonsense. When the truth comes out our Government will be in big trouble.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

      We will be preparing Tyburn!

      • Christine
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

        I wouldn’t go that far but Mark Twain’s quote “There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics” has never been so true. You only need to study the ONS death figures then compare with the MSM stories. A good article from Frederick Forsyth today asking where Covid comes on the list of causes of death and why is it hidden. I suggest more MPs start analysing the ONS facts and ask Government the right questions rather than listening to the MSM scare stories.

        • Fred H
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

          I would ! we are nearing martial law, without a shot being fired. A complacent population getting annoyed about 2 weeks loss of getting pissed in the pub. Is annnoyed all we can muster – – the people must have already been on tap water sedation, or something. Bulldog spirit or 6oz poodle – which is it?

  64. Annette
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:43 am | Permalink

    When you speak of measures to ‘prevent the spread of the virus’, are you referring to positive PCR tests with extremely high rates of false positives as the number of cycles being used basically renders the results as unreliable? A test which the inventor has said should NOT be used for diagnosis? Is this the measure that is being using as an excuse to remove people’s liberty & freedom? Seemingly without opposition?
    Why is Parliament not insisting on using the more reliable & quantifiable data of resulting hospitalisations, ICU impact and deaths (though the reasons appear to be being manipulated)? It’s certainly closer to the truth & would be accepted by more people.
    The Govt removed the HCID status back in March, before lockdown, so why is it still being treated like a plague, when actual hospitalisations/deaths show otherwise? We have had 6 months of real data. Why is the Govt still relying on provably failed ‘projections’?
    Why are the restrictions, with no scientic evidence to support them, whether 2m, masks, rule of 666, arbitary curfews, closures of small businesses not being challenged? Where is the risk assessment of the efficacy & possible harmful effects of forcing people, particularly children, to wear masks?
    The current actions of the Govt appear to have nothing to do with the health of the nation. The excess deaths due to non-covid reasons are just ignored, as are the as yet deaths & mental problems caused. This smacks of a totally different agenda, that was neither voted for nor wanted, being imposed on this country. We don’t want ‘Build back better’. It isn’t necessary if they stop destroying it in the first place.

    • Original Chris
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

      Yes, goat tissue and paw paws proved positive for Coronavirus, when submitted apparently by Tanzanian government to “test” the system.

    • Christine
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:52 am | Permalink

      Well said.

  65. Fishknife
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:04 am | Permalink

    On the one hand there is Black : Total Lockdown
    On the other White : Let it rip
    Anything else is shades of Grey, attacked by all sides, Black, White and both Light & Dark Grey.

    Lost in the cacophony is personal responsibility
    – replaced by a belief that the State is there to wipe all bottoms under all circumstances.
    Parliament is not there to be a condom when irresponsibles turn out at 10pm.
    or ignore social distancing.

  66. Lifelogic
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:19 am | Permalink

    Tories will pay a catastrophic price if they continue to crush the young
    A ruined Covid cohort could turn permanently against a party that has trashed their futures

    Allister Heath is surely quite right today. Not just the young but the economy and all those older people waiting for operations and tests to be done by the appalling NHS. Which have even taken sever private facilities over.

  67. Javelin
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    Doctors can treat covid now. The voters will move on. MPs need to as well.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:01 pm | Permalink

      In the first peak nearly half of those who died did not even get into hospitals and very many did not even get any palliative care.

    • steve
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink


      “Doctors can treat covid now”

      Assuming that like mine, they’re not sitting on their backsides using covid as an excuse to do as little as possible for the money.

  68. Barbara
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    There is no virus on this earth that can distinguish between six and seven. This is nonsense on stilts.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:00 pm | Permalink

      on steroids – but there are no doctors to prescribe them.

  69. RichardP
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Anyone considered the possibility that it is contaminated face masks spreading this new “wave” of coronavirus?

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Face masks or more correctly face covering do not at any stage protect the wearer. A cover is just there to deflect and container the virus with the wearer. The Government is frightened of permitting people to wear proper protection in case it impacts on their beloved NHS.

    • steve
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:48 pm | Permalink


      No, the second wave is due to Boris appeasing the whingeing booze industry.

  70. ukretired123
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    The lockdown undermines the “Build Back Better” mantra esp if it is based on Brino.
    Brussels won’t like the “Better” inference either.
    As Mrs Thatcher told Ronald “Don’t go wobbly on the knees now Ron” at the crunch USSR nuclear summit. So too must Boris not be known as Mr Blobby jelly man with Brussels now.

    • Barbara
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

      ‘Build Back Better’ is an Orwellian UN slogan for de-industrialising the West and forcing our standard of living down to match other parts of the world. It goes hand in hand with UN-backed “Great Reset” and the totalitarian “Green New Deal.”

      • Original Chris
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

        Yes, you are right, Barbara. All part of Agenda 2030 and very frightening.
        However, there is a ray of hope: if President Trump wins the election in November the tables will be turned and the communist aspirations of the NWO/one world government will be dealt a fatal blow.

  71. DavidJ
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    If government wanted to destroy our economy then they are doing the necessary, We never seem to see any real and verifiable information to support their actions. Maybe they don’t have any.

  72. Freeborn John
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

    The U.K. position in EU negotiations seems to be collapsing on all fronts. This weakness only emboldens the EU to remain hardline on all its demands. This collapse means the agreement taking shape is completely unacceptable; we will remain under EU “governance” with them having the ability to unilaterally disrupt our trade at any moment. This PM is going to go the way of the last one with your party set to collapse in the polls and be ejected at the next election.


    • beresford
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

      Perhaps Boris doesn’t intend to let us leave the orbit of the EU, he has been nobbled by the same people who gave Mrs May her instructions. Look for him to receive a set of lucrative ‘speaking engagements’ for no obvious reason once he decides to step down.

  73. Newmania
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

    For all I know Sir John is a really good bloke. He comes over as a bit of a ” Gawd -help-us” but , for all we know beneath the cold skin and reptilian eye, beat a warm heart .
    Even if that was the case, however , nothing he says can be trusted because his own fortunes are bounds up with being able to present “Brexit” as a success . That means engineering some sort of demand spike early next year and that requires as open an economy as possible.
    Nothing new or mysterious about it , its what Governments habitually did at election time hence ( partly )the old cycle of boom and bust and the need for an independent Bank .
    You will note the frequent= complaints about the Independent Bank, sulking, criticism and resentment – that is precisely why . No Cheating is a really annoying rule.
    Its an interesting state of affairs though and lies behind the complete loss of trust and confidence in this government.

    You have to look after yourself

    Reply An untrue account of how I think. MY advice is to designed to promote greater prosperity for the many. It is not about my own vanity.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

      You base your argument on two weal ideas.
      First the next election is 4 years away so your claim the government will engineer a boom in January is ridiculous.
      Secondly Sir John is a back benchers and has little influence on decisions taken by the Treasury or what the Bank of England might do.

      You lefties love a conspitheory theory.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

        Weak not weal

      • Newmania
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 11:45 am | Permalink

        he hem ,I may be a terrible person but I am not a lefty. I have voted Conservative on every possible occasion prior to Brexit and when I briefly joined the Liberal Party my wife greeted the news with
        ” You …a Liberal ha ha ha !”

        ….if that gives you some idea. ..

        I like to think of myself a Continuity Conservatism ( or something ) anyway to be honest with you it does seem to me that we have more to worry about right now

        • Edward2
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

          I’m amazed and shocked.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:04 pm | Permalink

      Nonsense Newmania.

    • steve
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:13 pm | Permalink


      “Its an interesting state of affairs though and lies behind the complete loss of trust and confidence in this government. “You have to look after yourself ”

      Hear hear, well said. That is indeed what it has come to.

      • Edward2
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

        Quite the opposite
        If only the government would let us look after ourselves.

    • BetterTimesAhead
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:39 pm | Permalink

      Sir John,
      Can you please avoid publishing comments that contain rude and personal attacks.
      It demeans your website.

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

        I disagree I think you have to shine a light on bullies and trolls.

  74. L Jones
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

    I wrote a comment that immediately disappeared. Completely. And suddenly – though nothing in it was suggesting insult, or even personal criticism. I wonder why.

    However – one thing I will say. Sir John speaks of ”discussions with MPs”. These ”discussions” are nothing more than tinkering with the control and coercion – not of ending this disgraceful state of affairs. Just talk about the leeway we may be ”allowed” if they feel like granting any. We know that the so-called ”risk” from this virus is practically non-existent, yet still we are being played for fools. You know it too, Sir John. That there is no MP courageous and committed enough to stand up for the people (fear? coercion? reward?) is appalling. The well being of our country is no longer paramount.

    We are being insulted and manipulated. And you in Parliament don’t even care that we recognise it.

    Reply Items are removed if they contain personal attacks on others , if they are too long of contain ref links which I have not read

    • Peter
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

      Don’t forget the host is a Conservative MP.

      So posts that don’t suit will get deleted. It’s not just personal attacks or linked references either. If you think it is a completely open forum then you are wrong.

      After a while you get to know what views, topics, subjects etc are likely to be removed.

      • villaking
        Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

        I don’t think that is true. I have opposing views on most issues but my comments are nearly always published. It is an open forum. It would be very dull and uninformative if it only had the views of supporters. I come here to be challenged

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:23 am | Permalink

        I disagree Peter, I see lots and lots of posts on here that don’t suit the government.

  75. glen cullen
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 3:30 pm | Permalink

    We already have police officers, special police officers and police community support officers – just increase their number, no need for covid-19 marshals and spending another 30 million

  76. glen cullen
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

    Looks like where staying in the European Court for Human Rights (ECHR)….and don’t tell me thats okay because the ECHR isn’t really in the EU

  77. Iain Moore
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

    President Trump appoints Kayleigh McEnany as his press spokesperson. Boris appoints Allegro Stratton , ex Guardian…Oh dear, Oh dear.

  78. glen cullen
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

    Has the media and government gone mad today with all the news about doubling covid-19 cases with lockdown and marshal law just around the corner in Europe – as at 6pm today the recorded daily deaths are –
    UK 77
    Italy 22
    Germany 12
    Netherlands 13
    Romania 44
    Belgium 16
    Poland 76
    Sweden 5
    Portugal 10
    Switzerland 5
    Austria 5
    Hungary 21
    Denmark 2
    Greece 6
    North Macedonia 3
    Albania 4
    Slovenia 1
    Lithuania 1
    While every death is sad this is just hysteria

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

      1400 deaths daily, 450 cancer deaths daily.

      77 due to Covid with no comorbidities? or sadly the virus was a step to much for someone already in serious difficulty.
      The best excuse for State Control never managed in UK previously?

      • Anonymous
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

        77 due to Covid with no comorbidities? or sadly the virus was a step to much for someone already in serious difficulty.

        avg 1 a day now in Sweden.

        • glen cullen
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

          Yeah we need to get real

  79. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 5:35 pm | Permalink

    If it’s true that Boris is about to enshrining the Paris Agreement on climate change in a new free trade deal with the EU, we expect Parliament to CHUCK THE DEAL OUT!

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

      Please tell me thats not true

      …..aaaanndd the hits just keep on coming

  80. steve
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:09 pm | Permalink

    L Jones

    Sometimes comments also get deleted if they ‘tell it like it is’.

    Though on occasion comments are allowed which you might think ought not to be.

    JR – we have one poster here who obsessively posts hatred of the elderly, yet you continue to allow his vitriol. If what the posts is not personal attacks on others, I don’t know what is.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:10 am | Permalink


      And we have plenty of people willing to feed the Troll(s).

      Just ignore them !

  81. Anonymous
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:13 pm | Permalink

    Stop paying and rewarding people for having large families. It is population growth that will eventually destroy the planet. When they start talking seriously about that. I will take Climate change seriously.

    The population will be 4 billion less by 2030.

    • Anonymous
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

      Japan is doing fine with no lockdowns, a population twice the size as ours on an island with one of the oldest age demographics in world. The virus is simply not as deadly as the models suggested. This is further indicated by the reality that 86% of cases are asymptomatic and most of the rest mild. The medical advice is basically stay at home and sweat it out because you will get over it. In other words we are already perfectly capable of fighting off the virus without a vaccine or a herd immunity strategy.

  82. steve
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

    Well you know JR you always stand out from the crowd, write excellent articles, and provide the public with access to this site – for which we are grateful, but alas I doubt that your efforts can change the fact that this country has gone to the dogs.

    Suffice to say there’s a bad moon on the rise for the alleged conservative party. They’re weak, they can’t sort out the EU, they can’t do anything about biased media, they’re frightened of their own shadow.

    I doubt if anything Boris does or says will make much difference, we know he’s taking orders from big business instead of the people who elected him. We know he will further insult this nation by begging the EU for an extension, we know he will sell out fishing to the French, we know he’ll sell out NI.

    We’re coasting towards a big punch-up in this country, and not before time in my opinion.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

      Agree – excellent post

    • Peter
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

      Some of the media reporting on Brexit is similar to their coverage of horse racing.

      They have a selection of articles by a variety of journalists/tipsters covering most eventualities. Take your pick.

      Boris may well do what suits Boris best. However, he still has to balance the fallout from failing to deliver a genuine Brexit for those that voted for it, versus the failure to get a deal that suits others.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

      there might be rebellion in the streets with the Police unable and maybe unwilling to carry out inexplicable rules in one situation that are deemed ok in another.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

      By next summer (if not before) this government is going to be at war with its own people.

      • glen cullen
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

        I’d say a lot sooner than that

  83. Vincent
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    I’m 87 years old
    I don’t want to live in a world like this.
    Thankfully I’ve lived a good life with few regrets.
    Most folk my age agree and cannot stomach any more isolation, our time left on this earth is very precious and we live every day like it’s our last.
    I remember living through the war years when we fought against a facist regime to protect our freedoms.
    For folk our age, not being able sit and play dominos in my local club, or see my children and grandchildren or even vist my late wife in the cemetery breaks my heart.
    People might say “ it’s only for a short period of time” but for folk our age it’s a large percentage of what life we have left.
    I beg you Mr Johnson to give us oldies a bit more credit, we know how to stay safe and we will take our chances.
    Let the younger generation live their lives free and let them live in a world without fear otherwise what was the point in fighting two world wars.
    kind regards
    One of many frightened and lonely old folk.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

      Full respect for your words

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

      +1 and exactly what my old friends and my own mother is saying.

    • villaking
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

      What a great post. You’ve touchingly summed up what many older people I know are feeling and what out government simply fails to understand

    • James Bertram
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 6:55 am | Permalink

      Really good post.
      Thank you.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

      A country fit for heroes?

    • Original Chris
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:13 am | Permalink

      A very moving post, Vincent.

    • Stred
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      Vincent for PM with Sir Colonel Tom as Chancellor.

  84. Freeborn John
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 7:36 pm | Permalink

    A delegation has to go to see the PM to insist on a stop to this rout of the U.K. Brexit negotiating position. It’s either that or men in white coats later for Boris.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

      Job Centre?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

      I think the white coats will be sooner rather than later.

      • bill brown
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:03 am | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        considering I have answered your questions so many times I am not sure you are using your required medicine

        • steve
          Posted October 9, 2020 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

          @ bill brown

          No need for that. Bang out of order.

          • bill brown
            Posted October 10, 2020 at 9:27 am | Permalink


            Not on ths one I disagree

  85. Sea_Warrior
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    I see that the Greek islands are now back in play. What have they done to get infections back under control? Are there any lessons for us?

  86. Anonymous
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

    The exces deaths graph shows a dramatic bulge of excess deaths starting only after the start of lockdown. This indicates lockdown measures were the big killer. In the preceding 3-4 months of rampant Covid illness, Dec, Jan, Feb early March, the graph is a low, almost flat, line. This indicates low lethality of Covid infection. Many excess deaths are accounted for by elderly having their lives ended by withdrawal of life maintaining care & DNR orders (the subject of Amnesty International action against the Govt). These deaths then seem to have had Covid automatically put on their death certificates! (heard from friends who lost parents this way & NHS friends). Thus increasing fear of Covid and masking the deadly impact of UK lockdown measures.

    • Stred
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      Utter rubbish. The respiratory infections reported to GPs started to rise in early March and rose quickly while the government did nothing for two weeks and advised distancing and avoiding pubs, restaurants and shops on the 16th. Many vulnerable people had already been doing so after seeing the epidemic in China and Italy. The government then found that, as in France, some people in the cities were ignoring the advice and after the Imperial report of the 16th went further than quarantining households with cases and enforced the stay at home to save our NHS policy. Cases and deaths continued to rise steeply until 8th April when the increase levelled off and continued at a rate of high hundreds while decreasing slowly until at a rate nearer to the average death rate in July. The voluntary distancing and vulnerable people avoiding pubs and shops had avoided a much higher death toll. The mismanagement of the NHS, by sending infected older patients to care homes doubled the deaths and the excess deaths for all reasons was around 65,000. The government has if anything not included 23,000 deaths and reduced the number to 42,000 leaving these deaths unexplained and any patients not dying within 28 days of a positive test as not due to covid. The idea that these large numbers of suddenly excess deaths, following a classic epidemic curve, were due to something else is fantasy.

      • Anonymous
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

        Utter rubbish. The respiratory infections reported to GPs started to rise in early March and rose quickly while the government did nothing for two weeks and advised distancing and avoiding pubs


        Go look at the ONS chart the week the lockdown started and compare previous weeks to see which one of us is talking rubbish.

    • Anonymous
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

      The exces deaths graph shows a dramatic bulge of excess deaths starting only after the start of lockdown. This indicates lockdown measures were the big killer.

      spot on

      • Stred
        Posted October 9, 2020 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

        The excess deaths increased from three weeks before lockdown and numbers went exponential until the isolation, distancing and stay at home reduced the increase from 8,4. You cannot expect the level of infection during an epidemic to suddenly stop after a lockdown. The lockdown didn’t infect people more, the numbers were reducing and mainly because of reducing contact. The voluntary measures started before lockdown and continued afterwards with households still allowed to go out and shop. Many essential workers still carried on as normal and were infected because of the lack of protection. This is why the number of deaths reduced during lockdown. They weren’t dying of boredom.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

      Some truth in that the only person I know who died of Covid caught it in hospital after being admitted for a minor stroke. Was then sent untested to a nursing home to infect others, then back home to infect his family then back to hospital (and at this point is finally tested – positive) he died a day later.

      Well done the envy of no one NHS!

  87. Fred H
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

    Friday is the 9th — -clock ticking nearer and nearer to 15th.

  88. TooleyStu
    Posted October 8, 2020 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

    Thank you for taking the PM and his (un)scientific advisors to task on this.

    The amount of people who have seen through this ‘IQ Gullibility Test’ must be worrisome for our Govt.

    The Govt had all the aces..
    full 24/7 compliant media ..
    swathes of ‘Stars and Royals’ ready to back their cause ..
    the police..
    swopping between Corona and Covid with gay abandon..
    dumping death figures for infection ones…
    and yet STILL have the ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

    What a joy to watch.

    Tooley Stu

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 9, 2020 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

      It was obiously propaganda at the time they delivered it. A scientific dodgy dossier of project fear.

  89. Hank Rearden
    Posted October 9, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    You didn’t vote against it did you? So your spine is pretty flexible, as to Labour abstaining on a fundamental matter of freedom, I have no words

  90. More Lockdowns
    Posted October 9, 2020 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

    There are too many people on earth, we are killing our Mother like a virus. We need a Reset so our brave politicians led by Tobias will help with that. Boris will give us living space.

  91. Ian
    Posted October 11, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    I think the above scare is just the same with Climate change, it is all about keeping the population frightened at all times.
    This is about them staying under the EU umbrella.
    Is this ghastly PM, yes yet another one like those before
    Well is he going to walk away, not on your lif. He is looking foreword to his seat around the Global table

  • About John Redwood

    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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