How the EU sought to make us dependent

As we exit the EU fully we need to be aware of just how far the EU had got in seeking our integration and submission to their system. They were always bitterly disappointed that the UK avoided joining the Euro, the main mechanism by which a fully integrated EU economy is being created. Greece and Italy have discovered the hard way that there are many policy choices they can no longer make as they are committed to the disciplines of the Euro.

Despite this they sought to ensnare us with various common policies. The Common Fishing policy took more and more of our fish to foreign ports, leaving us with one of the richest seas in the world to become net importers. The common energy policy got us to depend more on imports through interconnectors, making a country with plenty of its own energy partly dependent on a continental EU short of energy and committed to Russian gas. The common state procurement policy meant we bought more and more goods that the UK is quite capable of making from EU suppliers with continental factories. The Common Agricultural Policy led to a sharp decline in the proportion of our food we grow and rear for ourselves. The trade policy made us impose high tariffs on food products from outside the EU we could not grow ourselves. The animal welfare policy fell short of what we wanted, but we had to accept live movement of cattle and the standards the EU would accept for everything from chicken cages to sow tethers.

In future blogs I will be examining the scope there now is to improve so many things. The annoyance is the way the last Parliament and much of the UK establishment blocked preparatory work to grasp these many opportunities to do better more quickly.

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394 Comments

  1. Adam
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:22 am | Permalink

    The EUs zeal to dominate us went out of control, so they are losing it.

    • Andy
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:25 am | Permalink

      It isn’t the EU who has walked off in a huff.

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

        It isn’t the UK which has changed the rules of the club.

        • Hope
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:29 am | Permalink

          JR, could you confirm or deny the below in relation to food supply lines from EU.

          As we saw at the outset of this Chinese pandemic every EU country was for itself particularly Germany and France. Against EU treaties, rules and laws. Even though Italy was desperate and suffering.

          We also saw France threaten food supply lines to U.K. unless Johnson changed his approach to have lock downs, Johnson buckled. France also embargoed face masks destined for U.K.!

          We had the internal market bill because the EU threatened, again, food supply chains to U.K. It is not dramatic to say that is not an act of a friend or partner but war. Germany did the same with Atlantic convoys. Johnson should have walked at that stage not create law.

          It appears the EU thinks the U.K., because it is in vassalage/transition of the WA, cannot agree or get food supply lines running outside the EU by the end of the year. The EU has the ability to strangle our food lines in the immediate future as we are under their control until 1st January.

          On this date it does not have to trade unless a trade deal is in place. So food line supplies dry up immediately without any agreement from outside countries to buy food.

          Suggest U.K. Govt gets businesses to start buying and establish all food products from outside EU immediately against EU laws, regs and WA. Otherwise the EU will think it holds all the cards to starve us into submission.

          When will Johnson learn the ability to be disliked and tell the EU to eff off? All he has done is leave the door ajar.

          Reply Silly scare. Many suppliers on the continent have contracts to supply next year which they will wish to meet and have by law to meet. There is also plenty of food outside the EU if we prefer.

          • Lifelogic
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

            There will be no shortage of food. There is plenty of suppliers all round the World and in the UK. It is generally cheaper than EU supplies too. Anyway most UK people could benefit by slimming according to Boris.

          • G Wilson
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:51 pm | Permalink

            >> “On this date it does not have to trade unless a trade deal is in place.”

            That sentence is an outright lie.

            When people use the expression “WTO rules”, they are talking about the international treaties that prohibit what you’re claiming will happen.

            Perhaps, instead of making things up, you could try making a positive and honest case to have our laws made by the EU. But, of course, you can’t, since there is no such case to be made.

      • matthu
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

        Well, it’s not those who voted for Brexit who are in a huff.

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

        Andy, No, the EU has been arrogant and pompous. We are too civilised – any other country would have told the EU to “walk off” (or words to that effect) for attempting to take over our country.

      • Robin Wilcox
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

        We didn’t walk off in a huff. The Lisbon treaty gave us the option to leave. It’s the EU who appear to be in the huff as you put it. They’ve not been able to accept our decision to become an independent country.

    • Peter
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:25 am | Permalink

      Are we ‘exiting the EU fully’?

      Boris said prepare to leave on Australia terms but not we are leaving on Australia terms. The lack of certainty at this stage is not helpful.

      • Peter
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        Boris did strike the right note with the ‘prepare for Australia terms’ speech.

        However, it is all just so much theatre until we see what actually happens.

        It would be fine if this was the final act and the curtain dropped.

        The big fear is a last minute ‘breakthrough’.

        • Peter
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

          ‘Trade talks are over’ ?

          Now revoke the Withdrawal Agreement for reasons outlined on the Brexit Facts site on the right hand side of the home page here.

          Revoking the Withdrawal Agreement might be a suitable topic for our host to discuss soon.

          • glen cullen
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

            Agree with all your comments today Peter

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

            Yes, we’re at the stage where the European Union’s leaders are thinking of the English Tories “come on, punk, make my day”, probably.

          • Edward2
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

            Our friends and colleagues in the EU
            lol

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

      Indeed but the blame really correctly lies with all the UK governments from the appalling Ted Heath’s to the equally appalling Theresa May (and all those in between even Thatcher’s).

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:17 am | Permalink

        +1

      • Lifelogic
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

        An excellent piece on lockdownsceptics.org by a top NHS doctor insider. Expaining why the NHS are failing to separate out the Covid infected patients and staff treating them from the non covid patients. As clearly is sensible.

        “So you may be asking why has it been set up like this? Non-medical people assume that the NHS is a cohesive national system. In fact, it is a series of quasi-independent fiefdoms ruled by princelings – especially so in London. There is a vast amount of under-the-counter professional jealousy and rivalry. Essentially no one wants to be the dirty hospital – so there is vast push back, foot dragging and passive resistance to the sensible plan of isolating patients and their carers on one site.”

        It is well worth reading in full. The NHS certainly in London is not remotely overloaded with Covid patients.

        • IanT
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

          This was certainly my experience when dealing with the NHS – a complete nightmare. I think that folk see the NHS as being the frontline Doctors and Nurses – and rarely get exposed to those higher up the management chain. I used to deal with them regularly and didn’t enjoy it. Other large Corporates were much easier to work with.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:15 am | Permalink

            I have been dealing with NHS management for the past 30+ years in various capacities. The incompetence and arrogance are off the chart. Starts with the Government?

            The front line, however, has generally been highly competent!

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:10 am | Permalink

          +1

      • Lifelogic
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

        I had missed the sensible:- Letter from 12 Conservative peers to The Times (on the Covid-19 strategy). How depressing they could only find 12 sensible peers to sign it!

        About the same number who are not taken in by the climate alarmism religion. Both in the Commons and the Lords! Such is the dire quality of the sheep or group think dopes in parliament.

      • Timaction
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

        Indeed it does. They were fully supporting the project whilst lying through their teeth. May with her treachery and absolute betrayal to our Nation with Robbins should be investigated. In any other walk of life they’d be prosecuted for malfeasance. The only reason its hidden is the damage to the non conservative party.

        • Lifelogic
          Posted October 19, 2020 at 3:49 am | Permalink

          Exactly

      • Margaret Robinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:28 pm | Permalink

        It was Thatchers fight against the ERM joining the Euro and her dislike of the EU that cost her her premiership

    • margaret howard
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

      Oh Adam – its the old:

      “Fog in channel, Europe isolated”

      again -:)

      Who are ‘they’ supposed to be? The 27 nations who have made their trading bloc the world’s richest and most successful including its foremost civilisations?

      Against what will soon be an English rump after Scotland and Ireland say ‘farewell’?

      • Patricia Shakespeare
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:19 am | Permalink

        Only one of these 27 nations are what I would consider rich and that is the nation that lost the war, Germany

        • hefner
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:27 am | Permalink

          PS: You should travel a bit more both through continental Europe and through the UK. Maybe after considering the state of infrastructure, the availability of health services, food, utilities, education facilities, etc … in the various countries, you could write us a report on your findings instead of the vacuous statement above.

          And to the usual commenters who might find witty to tell me to go and move to ‘my beloved EU’, well, I’m working hard on it and am almost there, Covid-19 having not helped in that respect.
          After all, the circa £25k tax I have to pay HMRC each year for what I get in return could hardly be more wasted in Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece or Germany.

          • NickC
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:38 pm | Permalink

            Hefner, I’m glad to hear that you’ll soon be moving to your beloved EU empire. Seriously. And I’m not trying to be “witty” about it either. You obviously don’t fit in here, being an admirer of technocratic authoritarianism. I’m sure the EU can make the trains run on time better than we can.

          • IanT
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

            I’ve lived and worked in various arts of Europe, so can only wish you Good Luck and Farewell!

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

            Good news today! Goodbye Hefner. PS don’t go to Germany, the secret is that it is effectively bankrupt. All it has are IOUs from Club Med! One Professor I know, at Mainz university earns Euro 1,000 per month (after he retired but they had no replacement). All the Germans I know living in Germany now have 2 jobs, and many areas look like the backstreets of Turkey!

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:24 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            As much as I would like to support your assertion, unfortunately, you are wide of the mark?

            One needs to spend more time in Germany to better understand my comment?

          • hefner
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 10:13 am | Permalink

            Lynn, Well, it might depend which parts of Germany you are/were used to visit: some big towns over there have nothing much over British towns, I agree, but smaller towns in the Weser valley, Schwarzwald, Bayerische Alpen, Harz mountains or the Frisian islands do not look much like the backstreets of Turkey, at least to me.

            And I will admit I only know a few retired professors over there but they do not seem to be starving. But obviously what could I tell to a clever person like you who with a £200k income/revenue tell us that with the 90% tax rate she could only keep £20k to survive. In fact I really pity you.

        • Fred H
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:35 am | Permalink

          blame the Marshall Plan.

      • Margaret Robinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

        About 7 EU Countries could be considered wealthy. All 7 were reasonably wealthy prior to joining the EU.
        That leaves 20 in a mediocre or poor state despite 2.6 trillion in QE . Add to that the 750 billion for covid help.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:37 am | Permalink

      I did reply, Adam, but John’s courage to publish my comments seems to be at a low ebb these days.

      • Glenn Vaughan
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:41 am | Permalink

        We can all be grateful to John for sparing us that displeasure!

      • Fred H
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:33 am | Permalink

        you get more than your share – and oh so tiresome.

      • L Jones
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

        I am constantly amazed that you believe YOUR comments are the ones that should be allowed. There are plenty of other people here whose comments won’t be included, and they don’t all throw their metaphorical toys out of the pram.
        Perhaps many of your comments aren’t actually good enough to catch the selector’s eye.

  2. Garland
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:41 am | Permalink

    Nonsense from start to finish. Far from being “bitterly disappointed” the EU gave us an opt out from the euro in the Treaty. As for fish, it’s not the EU that sold off our quotas to foreign boats, it’s successive Conservative governments of which you were a member. And as for dropping tariffs on imports of food, I look forward to you explaining to Welsh lamb farmers and west country dairy farmers how and why cheap imports have destroyed their livelihoods. The EU gave us economic security, what we have now is utter chaos

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      All Government in the UK from Ted Heath to Theresa May’s have made appalling and unforgivable errors in endlessly appeasing and giving further powers to the EU (this without even asking the authority of the population).

      Even the signing the appalling Boris W/A agreement was clearly a mistake. Yet still Parliament and the Lords is stuffed with green crap pushing, big state, tax and regulate to death remoaners. Boris just put even more of them into the Lords.

    • Peter Wood
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:07 am | Permalink

      You don’t see the real picture; the EU’s economic purpose is to be the defender of EU nation’s production, which means high tariffs on products from non-EU nations. This sounds not too bad, but the legislation put into force has given advantage to European mainland producers (their politicians were far more engaged than ours obtaining sectoral benefit) resulting in our production being at a disadvantage. The evidence is most clear from our trade deficit with the EU. Through ever higher taxation to support uncompetitive production, and associated corruption, will end as it always does.

      PS, Boris and Co seem to be trying to replace individual commonsense and natural instinct for self preservation with government legislation; if he could do this we would indeed be in a utopian society…

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

      The hunger here, among the regulars, to swallow uncritically whatever John writes in this vein is indeed quite notable.

      I wonder just when, exactly, they will start to feel as silly as they should?

      • Sir Joe Soap
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

        I think most of us have our critical faculties intact, thanks.

        Our host wants a fully nationalised, socialised health service. Many of us would close the NHS down tomorrow save emergencies and move to an insurance-based system for all elective surgery.
        Our host I believe wants devolved powers to be used. Many is us would close the devolved parliaments down.
        Our host wants FPTP. Many here don’t.

        I could continue.

        • hefner
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

          SJS, good for you. Now the question is how successful do you think you will be in changing things, (NHS, devolved govts, FPTP, …), say in the next five years?

          The UK out of the EU is certainly a good start, but how will the liberated UK deal with the establishment, and in it I clearly include Sir John (a distinguished speaker at meetings of the think tanks below).

          People here usually talk about the lefty/green blob. Fair enough. Why never a mention of the Adam Smith Institute, the Bow Group, the Centre for Policy Studies, the Legatum Institute, Institute for Economic Affairs, …

          To finish on a lighter note, a little poem (sorry, I cannot cite the author):

          We rule you,
          We fool you,
          We thicken you,
          We sicken you,
          We tax you,
          We sack(s) you,
          We are outrageous,
          But you’ll still vote for us.

          • Fedupsoutherner
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

            Hefner your little ‘poem’ sounds like a description of the EU but we didn’t vote for them. Bon voyage.

          • anon
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

            Good poem.
            We need to make a better go of this democracy thing in the UK.
            Wish you and the EU well, but they need to learn to let go.

            The anti democratic EU establishment have delayed, delayed and outright refused wherever they can to stop it. Problem is its getting noticed.

          • Dennis Zoff
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:40 am | Permalink

            Hefner

            First, a full Brexit…then Westminster’s excesses….all in good time!

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:52 pm | Permalink

          I will NEVER accept anything but FPTP. I would shut the NHS but I think it has now effectively shut itself. It is for the voters suffering under the Devolved Authorities to dispense with them.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:35 am | Permalink

          Martin

          It is essential you (and others with similar views to yours) have a voice on this forum.

          It encourages those that support Brexit, John Redwood, and his like-minded colleagues, how right he/we are!

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        Martin, Your notion that “the regulars … swallow uncritically whatever John writes”, is the most utter claptrap. And that’s saying something for someone who churns out – uncritically – all the latest circulars from Remain central. What is remarkable is how often commenters disagree with JR, and how often he with us, yet he still publishes the comments.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:34 am | Permalink

      Your second sentence is, I believe, wholly inaccurate.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:40 am | Permalink

      1. The Euro opt-out is from phase 3 only (introduction of the physical currency) we are in phase 1 and 2 of the Euro. Ie we have to run our economy for the benefit of the EU and NOT for the benefit of the U.K.
      2. The EU allocated quotas to our fishermen which were not financially viable, forcing them to sell their quota and boat to Continental fishermen. This is nasty, underhand graft so they could claim the Quota was sold by us.
      3. The EU dumps food to destroy local businesses. Eg they dump Kerrygold butter in Africa at 1d per lb. Dumping is selling way below production cost to destroy competition. It is subsidised by taxpayers (intervention payments) and is an illegal and aggressive anti-capitalist activity to deliver a monopoly where prices can then go through the roof.
      The EU reduced Britain to a shell, with no British citizens (we are all EU citizens), no Monarch, no Parliament, no control of our future – therefore a slave state.

      • 'None of the above'.
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

        I broadly agree.
        Most people who have studied modern history will understand how and why the 1st and 2nd World Wars started so there is no need to rake over those old coals. Whatever the cause(s), the consequence was a drive by the originators of what is now called the EU to develop a European trading bloc. Yes, they could see the advantages of manipulating trade for the benefit of Europe and foster peace at the same time but it could only be achieved by suppressing pride in, and patriotism for the Nation State.
        This made some sense in the early to mid 20th century when European Governments were blinkered by obsessions beyond their own borders but it doesn’t make sense now, particularly for an island nation that values it’s independence and Parliamentary Democracy so highly.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:54 am | Permalink

          ‘None of the above’

          Tacit: The EEC was quite commendable given the post-war situation, however, the EU construct is not. (open opinion)

          The seeds of the “EU” were drawn up long before 1945? The EU is merely a consequence of a long-term plan?

          “Modern History” This depends on whose Modern History you are reading?

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

        Lynn, Just so. Moreover Germany does well because of mercantilism. If Germany had its own currency, its products would be more expensive. It is only because the Euro is an “average” currency (averaged out over the whole of the EZ, including the less successful economies) that Germany can do this.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 2:13 am | Permalink

          NickC

          I do not believe those tens of thousands that buy German “so-called prestige brands” in the UK, fully appreciate your viewpoint.

          With or without political (and business) currency manipulations, German products are still seen as excellent quality and highly desirable (status symbol?).

          Rather interesting when one considers German-made cars (from wherever?) driven in Germany are second behind Japenese manufactured vehicles for quality (breakdowns per class of auto – source ADAC (AA/RAC equivalent)

      • Dennis Zoff
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:45 am | Permalink

        +1

    • agricola
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      Security is anathema to success. I always remember the advice of a friend who ran a large national textile company, ” Always have a mortgage and a mistress you cannot quite afford, it drives you to greater endeavour”. Try talking EU economic security to Valencian orange growers this year, even more of their fruit will be left to rot. Even minus Covid 19 Valencians enjoy 20/25% un employment and their youth 40/45% the same. That is just the sort of economic security we do not need. It is a building block of political unrest we have not seen since the 1930’s

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      1 I haven’t heard farmers ever celebrate their joy from the fruits of the CAP and of being in the EU. The CAP is well known to have propped up inefficient French farms at other members’ costs. Your type celebrates not only propping up inefficiency but then handing out aid cash to those countries whose produce the EU puts enormous tariffs on to protect those inefficiencies.

      2 The opt out was hard fought and undoubtedly won as a trade-off against other nasties which were foisted on us.

      3 If economic security means being locked in a house with hostile inefficient “partners” who use their Power of Attorney when I’m still able to think for myself, count me out.

    • BJC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      The reason successive governments have been able to take these actions is because it’s been advantageous for the EU so they’ve permitted it, whereas we’ve had no meaningful say in the matter. I suspect future governments will find themselves being a little more circumspect as to how they deal with such matters, or face annihilation at the ballot box. The issue with Welsh lamb, specifically, isn’t cheaper imports but its “luxury” branding, narrowing its market as few people can afford to eat it. It needs to be more competitive, but the pricing structure is notoriously opaque enabling someone, somewhere to accumulate huge profits………..it’s certainly not the farmers, is it?

      As for “economic security”, ask the lovely people of Greece or Italy how secure their economic prosperity feels. The only thing that prospers in the EU are the fiefdoms of the unelected nestled in their ivory towers.

      • Garland
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:12 am | Permalink

        Go look at how many people in Greece or Italy want out of the EU. Very very few. Do they think it’s perfect? No. Do they think it’s better than trying to go it alone. Oh yes. And Brexit is just hammering home for everyone how friendless it is to go it alone. How’s that trade deal with the US going? The one you won’t get past Congress if you don’t toe the EU line in Ireland? Australia? they want a deal with the EU. The UK? Err, not so much, too small to care

        • NickC
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

          Garland, We’ll see.

        • IanT
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

          Do they feel trapped? Yes.
          Do they hate what is imposed on them? Yes.
          Will they eventually do something about it?
          I think that the answer will eventually also be Yes!

          The EU is not making them wealthier or more secure. Both the Italians & Greeks have seen how much the EU is willing to help (very little) when push comes to shove with illegal immigrants and Covid.

          They are rightly fearful of leaving because it will cost them dearly – but don’t confuse that fear with love of the EU.

        • Original Richard
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

          “Go look at how many people in Greece or Italy want out of the EU. Very very few.”

          I don’t know the figure for Greece, but a 2020 poll in Italy found 45% to be in support of Italexit, which could hardly be described as “very very few”.

          We’re getting an unfriendly reception from the EU because they’re upset at losing a substantial net donor to their budget, the loss of control over our laws, economy, policies and assets and the potential reduction of a £100bn/YEAR surplus with us from row competition.

          But on the other hand the EU were never friendly to us which is why a majority voted to leave.

        • beresford
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

          They are being paid to remain in the EU. With OUR money.

          • IanT
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

            Not for much longer hopefully…

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

          The Greeks are fearful of the value a new Drachma would be, and with their debts in Euros, that is a daunting prospect. They prefer to have a ‘notional’ value for their property even if it is unsaleable (and therefore worth next to nothing) rather than having the real value crystallised.
          Ergo they cling to the Euro – and starve!

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      There’s even more to it than that.

      The original CFP quotas were set based on actual catches by countries in the various fishing areas. At that time, much of the British fishing fleet was actually catching fish in what were, at the time (before the introduction of the 200 mile EEZs), international waters and outside of what is now the UK EEZ, and much of the fish being caught in the waters of the UK EEZ was being caught by non-British boats even back then.

      It was the choice of the UK fishing fleet not to fish closer to home and the quotas reflected that choice.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:14 am | Permalink

      Well, I think that the premise is nonsense too.

      The European Union’s institutions and offices are dependent upon the consent and will of twenty-seven sovereign countries, not the other way around.

      None of the twenty-seven are existentially dependent upon membership, even though that position is obviously greatly in their interests.

      Clearly John believed that in the case of the UK, or he would not have urged the highly detrimental course that he has for all these years.

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        Martin, As you have witnessed over the last 4 years it is actually quite difficult in practice for the UK to leave the EU. There are always some who are beguiled by the technocratic authoritarianism of the EU empire who demand to override a democratic majority decision to leave. EU states unfortunate enough to be in the EZ will find it almost impossible, unless the EU/EZ collapses or there is a marked change in the EU’s current vindictive mind-set.

        • Peter Parsons
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

          Leaving is easy. What is not so easy is leaving in a way that does not inflict significant damage to the UK economy at the same time as maintaining the UK’s commitments to the Irish peace process.

          • NickC
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 10:35 am | Permalink

            Peter P, Make your mind up: either leaving is easy, or it is difficult for the the reasons you list. However, the Irish peace process is completely separate from Brexit, though I do admire the EU’s use of it to blackmail the UK. As for damage to our economy, covid19 has already caused about 10 times more damage than leaving was projected to do even by Remains.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

        They are dependent on the leaders of the 27. How many countries produce more than 50% at Euro Elections? That would be approval of the institution.

        • Peter Parsons
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

          50% of what?

          As a voter living in England, Euro elections were the only elections I had a vote in where every vote counted.

          While the UK electoral system continues to be the unrepresentative FPTP system championed by the Conservative party, the UK is in no position to criticise democratic systems elsewhere in Europe.

          • NickC
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 10:36 am | Permalink

            Except, Peter, there are no democratic elections for the EU Commission at all.

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:56 pm | Permalink

            Sorry Peter – ‘turnout’. Democracy means you can sack your lawmakers. There is not 1 Parliament or democratic vote in the entire EU (including the EU ‘parliament’ which can’t propose, enact, amend or repeal laws).

    • Margaret Robinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

      Utter rubbish the EU has no financial security itself. We did not opt out of the Euro. We thankfully decided in our own interests not to join.
      What use is quotas for waters we are prevented from fishing in most of the time and the catches not even up to the quotas. The city protected the Euro and EU financial shenanigans since the euro came into operation. Hope they stop now

    • NickC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

      Garland, You clearly don’t know that New Zealand lamb is admitted under a quota system tariff free (TRQ), so is already a direct competitor to Welsh (and English) lamb.

      • IanT
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 11:30 am | Permalink

        NickC – 20 odd years ago I met a client for lunch in Bala. I drove there through fields full of Welsh Lamb. The Hotel we met in had a “Roast Lamb Special” on offer – so we chose that – and it was very good.

        As I was leaving, I congratulated the Manager on the quality of the local produce, only to be told that the lamb was from New Zealand. 🙂

  3. Everhopeful
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    Are we really leaving? There seems to be some ambiguity in the news after yesterday’s apparent show of bravery. Oh that Johnson were as afraid of his electorate as he is of Brussels.
    It sounds as if the entire government spent 40 odd years as terrified vassals to the EU with no will or desire to do the best for the U.K. There seems to be some regret regarding this, with very good reason.
    How strange then, that the government has slithered ( or has been slithering for some time) into an even worse hostage situation which offers seemingly worse draconian chains and obligations.

    • Simeon
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      I have seen reports and articles suggesting that yesterday’s events were merely a continuation of the amateur dramatics intended to manipulate public opinion. But Boris John-Sunlit-uplands looks deadly serious to me. Furthermore, the further talks scheduled on Monday seem to me a very clever wheeze to maximise the EU’s humilation and deal a death blow to the European project. I can’t wait to see the look on Monsieur Barnier’s face when he turns up at Downing Street, knocks on No. 10 and is given not a Churchillian two-fingers but the Agincourt version. “Ali” Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has been playing rope-a-dope all this time to exact the sweetest of revenges. Float like a butterfly, sting like a Boris.

      Come to think of it, this rope-a-dope strategy could have multiple applications… The Virus doesn’t stand a chance!

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      We have left, months ago, old chap.

      Farage, Hannan and their shower got their helpful shoves between the shoulders.

      The Union flags have been taken down, and slung out along with the pasta, sauerkraut and boeuf bourguignon scrapings.

      You have what you wanted, so own it, and enjoy it.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:30 am | Permalink

        sauerkraut is very over-rated!

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 2:23 am | Permalink

          Fred H

          Sauerkraut is not overrated in Germany, quite the opposite…unfortunately for me, my German wife serves it up way too often for my liking!

          • BW
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

            Krautsalat is far better especially with a bratty

          • IanT
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 11:34 am | Permalink

            I never grew to like Sauerkraut Dennis – but I am very partial to a good Currywurst and Pomme Frits (with Mayonaisse of course).

            Not good for the diet perhaps but something I really use to enjoy on the way back from the pub.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

        I’ve been out all night helping to keep your country running, Martin.

        Wearing a mask up to 4 hours a day. Dealing with drugged up, steroid taking muscle freaks as part of my job. I had a particularly bad one last night, the others being pretty routine.

        It’s the masks, mate. They’re slowly driving us all mad and talking nut jobs down all the more difficult.

        I say this off topic and it’s only on topic in that I think you’re wrong on nearly everything you say.

        At least I’m out there doing my bit.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

          Do you think that I was bone idle during my working life?

          But thanks.

      • czerwonadupa
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

        We haven’t left. All we’ve done is hand in a letter of resignation to the club secretary. They’ve been insisting we continue paying subs until we come to an agreement on wether we can visit ours friends in the club house without being told we have to carry on paying for new infrastructure as their other members haven’t got the monies themselves.
        This is the only club I’ve been a member were they insist I carry on paying subs after leaving.

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

        Martin, When the EU no longer controls our fish, our laws, our law making, doesn’t inflict the CJEU on us, and no longer makes us pay and obey, then we will have left. And only then.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

        Yes we did Martin so stop sulking and comment on an EU blog.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      Some legislation must go through the House, housekeeping technicalities. So he has to say that the Invitation to the EU to propose a FTA is open. We all know they will never crawl in their belly on the world stage yo ask the U.K. for an FTA.
      So it’s over.
      Never dismiss the power of gentle words. ‘The meek (the gentle not the weak) shall inherit the earth.’ Only the strong can be meek and use gentle words, and the UK is strong!

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

        Lynn

        “The meek shall inherit the earth.”

        …..yes but when ?

        • glen cullen
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

          +1

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

          24.00 31st December 2020 We get the ground under our feet back! That’s good enough for me!

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

        Lynn

        “We all know they will never crawl on their belly”

        …macron is involved, so don’t rule it out.

    • glen cullen
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:01 am | Permalink

      I woke up this morning to see us still paying into the EU, still following their rules and regulations…with the potential of a deal if either the UK or EU compromises

      I so want us to go WTO and walk away from the negotiations ,,,,but all I saw yesterday was stage managed ranting – I fear that nothing has changed

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

        And follow the WTO rules and regulations, with very little input as to those.

        The UK had the second-most number of MEPs after Germany, and the maximum votes – twenty-nine – in the Council on the other hand, while in the European Union.

        • Dennis Zoff
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 2:32 am | Permalink

          Martin in Cardiff

          Then why were these UK MEPs so ineffectual? I can help you out if needed.

          • IanT
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

            Because they can neither initiate legislation. nor ultimately block it either. So they are just a talking shop that enables the EU the pretence of Democracy.

    • Jack Falstaff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      +1.
      Don’t hold your breath Everhopeful!
      In my view we are clearly being “slithered” into the US elections.
      The government Remainers are counting on a Biden victory, which will then provide an excuse for further fudging and appeals for extended “talks” when Obama tells (yes “tells”) Biden to put us at the back of the queue/line for trade deals.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

        Trump will win well.

        • Jack Falstaff
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:44 am | Permalink

          Yes, I don’t believe these falsified polls either and President Trump’s rallies exude an energy that isn’t just coming from him.
          Joe Biden would still sound like the last biscuit in an empty Christmas bumper tin even if his rallies were outside in the open.

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

            Biden said he was ‘running for the Senate’ and got his location wrong! 😂😂 he right up there with the Clintons and Obamas. Doesn’t know which way is up. Or maybe he is doing this deliberately as a defence for the treasonous illegality that he and they have been involved in – his own emails say it loud and clear!

        • NickC
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

          Lynn, Perhaps not, if enough Biden votes are printed.

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

            There is a percentage they can ‘manipulate’ but after that it gets very dangerous. Trump is ahead of that manipulation point.

        • drachma
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 2:08 am | Permalink

          Don’t think so .. America has had enough of cowboyism

      • IanT
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 11:48 am | Permalink

        I’m not sure Trump can win – and he really is the “Marmite” President. People either love him or hate him. All of our Canadian family absolutely detest him. There is no doubt that he is a very strange character – but I’m afraid some of his ‘utterings’ just make me laugh – so I’m afraid I might miss him!

        As for Biden, who knows what we are really getting there? When I ask the Canadians what they expect – they don’t really know (just that he has to be better then Trump). I’m not so certain, sometimes you have to be careful what you wish for.

        It just makes me wonder how a country with over 300M people could only find Trump/Clinton – and now Trump/Biden as their potential leader. What a dreadful choice for voters to have to make.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

          Amazing isn’t it how the minority ‘community’ in Canada provide the ‘hereditary’ leadership, no matter how incompetent. When Canada weans itself off their current Woke-on-Stilts disaster I will start listening to their opinion.
          Trump will win.

  4. Mark B
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Whilst it is encouraging to see that the UK Government and the PM is finally showing the Thatcher spirit and resolve, I reserve final judgement until the 1st January 2021.

    I have always argued that Leaving the EU would not just be about the benefits to the UK but to other nations as well. The Single Market is a captive market where others get to make the rules to suit themselves. Rules that they in turn ignore but the British with their sense of fair play follow. Now, hopefully, we can start making rules that suit our own internal market and they will have to follow.

    I would like to see better animal welfare and the ban from, too and transport through the UK of live animals. Animal Welfare can be a major policy area of this government and would give it a much needed image boost. This would also include the banning of ritual slaughter of animals.

    The UK needs to engage with African and South American countries who have good produce to sell. Helping them to not only grow but process these goods would help them and their economies, provide jobs for people and so help stem the tide of economic migration. Teach a man to fish and all that.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:12 am | Permalink

      Mark B. You have raised a very good point with your post today. You a right when you say that major improvments with animal welfare would give the government a boost. There are many of us who are sickened at the way animals are treated both before and at the slaughter stage. I am not a vegan but would love to see welfare standards raised and a complete ban on the import of fur from the rest of the world. I know I speak for many on this topic. Giving poorer countries a chance to better themselves and sell more to us would improve lives and also be yet another vote winner. It comes down to a question of morality and some of us haven’t lost that yet.

      • Timaction
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

        Indeed. Trade not Aid!

      • Mark B
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

        Many thanks 🙂

        It is a chance, on many issues, for the UK to lead from the front internationally. Like we used to do.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

          +1

  5. Andy
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:50 am | Permalink

    I’ve made a comprehensive list for you of how your Brexit improves our country.

    List ends.

    • beresford
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:50 am | Permalink

      Andy is right, until we end the Transition Period without accepting ongoing EU control we cannot realise the Brexit dividend.

    • Glenn Vaughan
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:59 am | Permalink

      Andy

      I’ve made a list of your intelligent contributions to this website.

      List ends.

    • None of the above
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

      Good idea Andy! Hang on to it and start filling it out on 1st January and we can all read it this time next year. Keep up the good work of collecting real evidence.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      You don’t surprise us, with the latest installment of your tedious campaign.

    • Arthur Wrightiss
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:40 am | Permalink

      I’ve made a comprehensive list for you of how staying in the EU forever would improve our country.

      List ends.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      Yup.

      Because most of our problems were internal.

      It’s obvious to see now.

    • ukretired123
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

      Thank you for your enlightenment Andy sparing us your daily rants on behalf of the EU propaganda drivel. Head-bangers eventually give up as it hurts them more than others. Basic fact.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      you got up before 5.50 to write that? Insomnia over telling the EU not to bother coming?

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      Andy, that must have been difficult for you at this time in the morning. Have a boiled egg and soldiers and you might do better later.

    • Longus
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      List of national votes won by remainers:

      List ends.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

        😂class response! Mrs 9% and they still don’t get it!

  6. Sea_Warrior
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    So what now is the government’s policy on the matter of energy security? Will it be ensuring that we produce enough energy for our needs, so that the inter-connectors, progressively, become just an added safety net? Will it push ahead with the Small Modular Reactor, which would be a better investment than HS2? And would it kindly consider tasking NS&I to establish a National Infrastructure Fund OEIC/unit trust that uses private investors’ money to buy large holdings in our listed utility companies, so that the dividends benefit our economy, and the companies’ attention remain wholly focused on the needs of the British economy and British shareholders? It would be nice if we could run a tap, switch on a light, or turn on a gas-hob without adding to our Balance of Payments woes.

    • Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

      11% of electricity being imported at 8.15 a.m.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:27 am | Permalink

        so we should move the CH program to later, and avoid boiling the kettle?

    • a-tracy
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      NS&I to establish a National Infrastructure Fund – what would stop government blowing this on a Bridge to Ireland or over the Thames or HS2 to fill the gaping hole that we’ll suddenly be told is billions under budget without shareholders agreement. If business people are winning State contracts because they are under quoting then tough on them their job is to bring the project in on what they quoted, that’s how it works in the real world.

      However if this was to buy back ‘water companies’ into UK stakeholders hands, build new Reactors as you suggest I feel there will be lots of takers. Isn’t this how the German’s buy shares in their airline?

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:18 pm | Permalink

        My idea for the fund is that it would operate in the secondary market, taking increasing shares of utility companies – for the benefit of British citizens. I do NOT propose that the British government takes stakes.

    • IanT
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 11:51 am | Permalink

      Excellent post SW!

  7. Lenbery
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    Another day, another rant about the EU. You seem to be the only person who doesn’t know we have left. Stop pretending the EU is to blame for the catastrophic government of Johnson/ Cummings. You won, get over it.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:51 am | Permalink

      How is it that we remain under EU law, pay EU tributes, and cannot conclude trade agreements for ourselves?
      PS the EU is to blame for our catastrophic lack of quality MPs because for 47 years there has been no job in Westminster, so apart from the few who were there to fight, quality people declined to be a rubber stamp.
      You will not see a massive upgrade in the quality and quantity of candidates of all political persuasions, thanks to our having overturned the Evil Empire on the Continent.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

        Correction – You will NOW see an upgrade…

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:04 am | Permalink

      ah but we haven’t yet freed ourselves from shackles imposed on us – that joy is in the wings.
      Happy New Year!

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

      Well, maybe if his government followed Jacinda Adern’s, and built trust with the people, then they’d not have to resort to the sort of attention-diverting that John seems to do here.

      And what a magnificent election result for her?

      Especially since NZF are now disqualified from parliament, having failed to get even five percent.

      Farage and Banks wasted their time there, then. What good sense the folk of NZ clearly have.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

        Well NZ is a prison and you can’t afford to irritate the Guards… total lockdown of the borders. And a threat of lifelong incarceration if you test positive for the Dreaded Lurgy.
        Mugabe also got fantastic election results!

    • NickC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

      Lenbery, You know we are still controlled by the EU. And I know you know. So the question remains (!) why do a handful of Remains keep insisting we have left when the EU blatantly still controls everything it did on 30 Jan 2020? Do you enjoy lying? Or do you think we will be impressed, and suddenly become Remains? Or do try to annoy because you’re nihilists? Or are you just boring?

  8. steve
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:58 am | Permalink

    JR

    “……we need to be aware of just how far the EU had got in seeking our integration and submission to their system”

    Good article JR, the first lines of which got my attention.

    Firstly we can’t depend on the state broadcaster for anything relating to our leaving the EU.
    Unless it is to broadcast pro EU propaganda, of course.

    Government should have revoked the BBC’s broadcasting licence, on the grounds of broadcasting propaganda favourable to a foreign hostile power.

    Secondly; The EU ‘seeking our submission’. That is not a good faith negotiation, and has been the EU strategy from the onset. The WA agreement should have been ripped up there and then.

    On the point of dependency, well yes that is indeed an EU strategy, especially so in the case of NI. They, and their little Irish cohort sought to bring about the surrender of British territory.

    But, as we all know, the appalling way this country has been treated is down to ungrateful Macron. The best thing to do with that little napoleon is to walk away and leave him alone in the room with Germany.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:52 am | Permalink

      You can’t rely on the BBC for a balanced view of CV-19 either.

      No mention of the 35000 doctors and scientists who have signed the anti-lockdown Barrington Declaration.

      CV-19 is God’s gift to the Left, as Jane Fonda says. The Left lost all the votes. So they want to trash the West.

      And when did BBC Radio 2 drive time become Woman’s Hour ? Yet again I’m having to listen to girly wittering about baby stuff on my way home from work.

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

        NLA

        “CV-19 is God’s gift to the Left, as Jane Fonda says. The Left lost all the votes. So they want to trash the West.”

        …..yes, that is the new tactic of the left. I think trashing society should be made a terrorism offence.

        “Yet again I’m having to listen to girly wittering about baby stuff on my way home from work.”

        …….you think that’s bad, try R4 at midday.

  9. dixie
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:08 am | Permalink

    … The EU do not want free trade or friendship.

    Congratulations to Boris on finally accepting this and holding to his word.

    Now uphold our borders, laws and internal market, rebuild our on-shore British owned industries and commerce for our benefit.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      I think that is too much to expect of Boris. He has now done his bit. We need new blood to forge our way in 2021.

      • dixie
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:29 pm | Permalink

        To an extent – it is not enough simply to leave the EU, the establishment has to repair the damage it has done to us over decades.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

          Yes! They need to learn to respect us.

    • steve
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      dixie

      “Congratulations to Boris on finally accepting this and holding to his word.”

      But he didn’t hold to his word. The 15th came and went, and even now he’s still leaving the door open to accommodate french demands that we sacrifice our sovereignty.

      • dixie
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

        I am willing to allow some leeway in arbitrary dates and we should provide support when people do the right thing or are heading in the right direction.

        Shame we can’t meaningfuly punish those who betray us beyond giving them gongs and lordly titles. Not voting for them is no stick at all.

        • anon
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:15 pm | Permalink

          We could do what the EU do. Pensions apparently come with ties.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

          +1

  10. DC of Uk
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    The Withdrawal Agreement should never have been agreed to. However I do understand how it came about, and how, at the time many Eurosceptics felt they had to “allow it to happen”, even if they disagreed with it and did not support it.

    Assuming we do leave without a Free Trade Agreement, what status and validity does the exiting Withdrawal Agreement have ?. Can we “tear it up and start again” ? . ( I think we should ).

    I have no concerns that “tearing up the Withdrawal Agreement” would seriously and permanently damage the UK’s reputation. On the contrary, I think that abiding by the Withdrawal Agreement would, in the longer term, be seen by the wider world as the UK being both incompetent and week.

    Reply We need to legislate to end any residual EU obligations we do not accept

    • Andy
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:44 am | Permalink

      We’ve already left – and there will be a free trade agreement in place at the end of the transition or shortly thereafter.

      The UK is not in a position to not have a trade deal. You either accept that now or you accept it sometime early next year when the terms will be even worse. Up to you.

      We always had a lousy hand and it was played particularly poorly too.

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        Andy

        “We’ve already left”

        …who’s ‘we’ ?

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

        If we have already left, Andy, where are the food and medicine shortages you kept prophesying?

    • Northern Monkey
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

      In my best of all possible worlds, DC of UK is David Cameron seeking advice, at last, from an honest observer of the EU.

      With this in mind, Sir John, why not simply revoke the Withdrawal Agreement Act, but adhere to those sections in which we see value, such as EU citizens’ rights, but without EU oversight?

      • Garland
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:15 am | Permalink

        So tell the EU we are scrapping the Withdrawal Agreement, but we expect them to stick to the commitments made to protect UK nationals living in the EU? Well, you could try

        • Northern Monkey
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

          Well, they would, because they also have a lot of their nationals in the UK…

        • NickC
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

          Garland, So you expect us to protect EU nationals in the UK, whilst the EU persecutes UK nationals in the EU? Yeah, I can see that working just as you imagine.

          • hefner
            Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

            Why would the EU persecute UK nationals? As such the EU would have no power on any UK ‘subject’ moving to the continent.

            If UK people wish to become residents of a particular country, after filling up a few forms (number and complexity depending on the chosen country) they would only have to follow that country’s rules and legislation (as most of us are already doing it here in the UK).

            You don’t seem to realise that there are very very few EU rules governing the daily life of most EU continentals (in fact as it is in the UK!). Nothing EU in education, health, shopping hours, driving licence, banking accounts, local and national taxes, … There are some EU requirements on the quality of food products but they have never prevented any of the national specialities from being consumed wherever there is a demand for them.

            You might want to conjure a EU bogeyman, but most likely he will not appear, and if someone actually shows up he would be the Weihnachtsmann (Santa Claus).

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

          If you prefer to live on the Continent, you should take the local citizenship. During the run up to the Referendum one friend told me that her sister, who has lived in Germany for 41 years, wanted to remain there with ‘uk citizenship’ so she was voting Remain to achieve that.

    • rose
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

      Thoroughly agree with both of you.

    • Richard
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

      Martin Howe QC wrote an article discussing the finer legalities: https://lawyersforbritain.org/the-eu-withdrawal-agreement-why-uk-law-must-prevail

      As succinctly summarised. by JR’s reply!

    • villaking
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

      The WA may be a bad treaty for us but it was the centre piece of the Tory election campaign, this was the often talked about “oven ready deal”. If you voted Tory or Brexit Party (who stood aside to help the Tories) then you have endorsed it and should not be talking about tearing it up 9 months after it was signed to great fanfare. There is a strong democratic mandate to follow the terms of the WA (sadly)

      • Northern Monkey
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:17 pm | Permalink

        The Withdrawal Agreement was one half of the solution to the issues arrising from the UK’s decision to leave the EU, the trade agreement is the other half.

        Individually, they are of no value to the UK.

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

        No, Villaking, the centrepiece of the Tory election campaign was to “Get Brexit Done”. The WA was always regarded as a Remain product of the Remain Parliament of 2017-2019, and was only agreed (before the 2019 election) for political expediency. The WA is Remain trash, and you know it.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

          +1 – and made up after the U.K. voted to leave.

  11. GilesB
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:22 am | Permalink

    The highest priority is to ensure a full exit with complete trade freedom from 1 January 2021.

    The second priority is to build stronger links with other countries around the world through mutually beneficial trade – not just slavish adoption of the EU’s exploitative protectionism (e.g. 4% tariffs on cocoa beans, 40% on processed chocolates)

    The third priority is to tear up the Withdrawal Agreement and give the shreds to lawyers to deal with the EU’s reaction but waste no political attention or resources on it

    • Andy
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:29 am | Permalink

      Few countries will bother with you if you tear up the legally binding withdrawal agreement. Who wants to deal with a country and a government so dishonest that it reneges on its legally binding promises after 9 months?

      • 'None of the above'.
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

        It is only legally binding whilst it is enshrined in Domestic Legislation. Repeal the ‘Withdrawal Agreement Act 2020’ and the WA and NI Protocol no longer have any legal force.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:41 am | Permalink

        You mean the EU promised to finalise a FTA in the Withdrawal Agreement and then trashed it? Wow, who would ever negotiate anything with them ever again?

    • James1
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

      +1

  12. Andy
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    It is genuinely silly to claim to EU ‘sought to make us dependent.’

    The EU is a rules based club – and however much Tory Europhobes grumble about the rules or claim the rules don’t count – the fact is that the EU only works because its members follow the rules.

    Trade is free and frictionless because the rules are the same. Kettles are made to the same standards in the UK as they are in Spain and Slovenia and Lithuania and dozens of other countries meaning you can sell your kettles in any of those countries knowing your rivals have followed the same rules.

    These rules have opened up huge markets for British companies to access without any additional bureaucracy – and the Brexiteers, who promised to cut red tape, have now closed these markets off to everyone except those willing to get involved in masses of extra red tape.

    It is the shared rules you hate which has facilitated the free and frictionless trade you claim to love. Ironic.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      What’s so special about Spain and Slovenia? Why can’t I buy a kettle made to UK standards in the US?

      • 'None of the above'.
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

        Well Said!

      • margaret howard
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:19 am | Permalink

        Sir Joe Soap

        “Why can’t I buy a kettle made to UK standards in the US?”

        You’ve obviously never owned any British made white goods!!!!!!!!!!

        • NickC
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

          Margaret H, And apparently neither have you. I have a 30+ year old Lec chest freezer made in the UK, quietly doing its job. If you look under your electric kettle you will probably find it’s made in China, but the chances are it will also say “Strix”. That company designs world beating kettle controls in the Isle of Man, to meet international standards.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

        Why would a country with 110v AC mains sell kettles built to work on 230v AC?

        • Edward2
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

          Companies sell worldwide and their products meet the requirements of each market.
          Switching voltage is easy.

        • Michael McGrath
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

          You simply cannot be serious!!

          Are you not aware that BMW, Mercedes, Citroen Renault and all the rest make right hand drive cars for the UK market.

          And UK manufacturers make product that meet the conventions in their export markets

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted October 19, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

            I replied to the comment.

            Its first of several possible meanings was as to what the commenter could buy when in the US.

        • dixie
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

          Have you not been to the USA?

          The USA uses 240v AC alongside 120v domestically. I believe they have a couple of other standard AC voltages around that level also.

        • NickC
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 10:45 am | Permalink

          Martin, More to the point, the standard USA AC mains frequency is 60Hz whereas the UK and EU standard is 50Hz.

        • Peter D Gardner
          Posted October 19, 2020 at 1:51 am | Permalink

          Because it shouldn’t be a national decision but that of the manufacturers and exporters. It is as easy to make kettles for 240v as it is for 110v. Why would a country want to stop its industries from selling their products abroad?

    • steve
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Andy

      “the fact is that the EU only works because its members follow the rules.”

      Total rubbish. Go to France or Portugal and see who follows the rules.

      “Kettles are made to the same standards in the UK as they are in Spain and Slovenia and Lithuania”

      Which is why they don’t last.

      “It is genuinely silly to claim to EU ‘sought to make us dependent”

      It occurs to me that, actually, you know nothing.

      • Fedupsoutherner
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

        Oh dear Andy, this post shows how much you don’t know. Just go and live in Spain for a year and you will see what I am talking about. Would you like to drink water that has been contaminated with sea water? Do you think EU rules allow workers on construction sites with slippers, no hard hats and DIY ladders strung together with string? Local councils fleecing buyers and cheating the tax man big time? Get an education.

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

      The rules include a debt to GDP ratio of 60%. Italy’s is more than twice that, so where are the sanctions on them, as well as all the other countries that violate it?

      The rules don’t extend to harmonisation of national minimum wage, so Eastern Europeans can be exploited on low wages and unfair competition on all the countries that pay decent wages, including ours. Level playing field please?

    • Christine
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      All kettles I see for sale are made in China.

      • SecretPeople
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink

        My 1990s Russell Hobbs kettle is still going strong (made in China since 2010).

        • SecretPeople
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:32 am | Permalink

          Bring back the British Standard!

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

            +1 In the colonies the most treasured possessions were ‘imported’ – which meant made in the U.K. My grandfather (born in Cork) came to the UK after the war to buy fire-engines for SA, partly because they were the best, but mainly because we treasure the U.K. and all who sail in her, and want her to thrive!

        • Pud
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

          Has Andy never seen a Chinese-made smart phone, a Japanese TV, a Korean DVD player, a New Zealand lamb chop, an Australian bottle of wine etc.? Obviously a nation does not need to be an EU member in order to comply with EU standards.

    • Robert Mcdonald
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:59 am | Permalink

      The fact is that kettles made in China can be bought in the UK and in Europe. Why, because the manufacturer makes them to the standard needed to sell in the country that they wish to sell them in. It’s called business and trading. The free frictionless trade in the eu is a myth, its certainly not free as it costs the UK 20 billion plus a year to be in the scam.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • Andy
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:09 pm | Permalink

        It costs significantly less than your Brexit. Dozens of lorry parks, tens of thousands of pointless pen pushers and hundred of millions of pointless forms. Still, I hear some of the lorry parks now have portaloos.

        All to try to appease unappeasable xenophobes.

    • Barbara
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

      The EU is lawless organisation which ignores its own rules whenever it suits.

    • John O'Leary
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

      @Andy

      Most manufacturing standards adopted by the EU are lifted from intergovernmental organisations of which we were independent members but whose voting rights were usurped by the EU. In the case of your kettle, the EU’s CE standards originate from International Electrotechnical Commission (IEC) standards. Leaving the EU’s influence will not impact UK standards and in many cases will enable us to higher them. The hubris of the EU in believing they have a God given right to demand conformity to their rules, rather than accept any kind of equivalence, that sticks in my craw.

      • robert lewy
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:06 pm | Permalink

        A little research will demonstrate that there is a fundamental difference in the way that European Standards are constructed as opposed to British Standards.

        An online search of the organisations involved shows that whilst in the UK standards are a co-operative effort between industry, universities and interested governmental institutions to establish appropriate standards, in Europe Standards are written primarily by Industry alone their own interests.

    • NickC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

      Andy, It is genuinely silly to claim to EU didn’t seek to make us dependent. The BBC film Brexit: Behind Closed Doors clearly shows EU employees chortling that they have made the UK an EU colony. How much more dependent does it have to be before you admit the truth?

  13. Lifelogic
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:33 am | Permalink

    Indeed.

    Meanwhile the UK credit rating declines due to our idiotic government’s agenda of an ever bigger state, tax borrow and piss down the drain everywhere you look, expensive unreliable energy, absurdly high & complex taxes and & even more red tape and employment over regulation

    George Osborne who gave us the absurd & unsustainable over taxation of landlords (and thus tenants) this on profits not even made also gave us this regional Mayors devolution agenda. Thus giving us even larger government, pathetic political posturing and even more government waste. Well done plonker Osborne!

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      Pray that he becomes chairman of the BBC, it will make defunding and destroying it so much easier.

    • DavidJ
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

      Well said LL.

  14. ChrisS
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:39 am | Permalink

    This was the right decision, as long as Boris sticks to our red lines.

    The fact that the 27 changed their draft communique during the summit, removing the commitment to further in-depth discussions and no compromises, tells us that Macron was more persuasive than Merkel. It was she who stated clearly that both sides would need to compromise further. Macron’s assertion that the EU would be prepared to trade some fishing rights in the North Sea as long as his own fishermen could continue to take 84% of the Cod in English channel waters was breathtakingly arrogant and cannot have gone down at all well with the countries that use the fishing grounds he was prepared to give up !

    We might as well go for broke now : tariffs should hold no fear for us, after all, even with the tariff on cars at 10%, they would merely put the price of British-built cars back to slightly less than they were in Europe in 2016 thanks to the 12% drop in our exchange rate. Meanwhile, German, Italian and French cars will be 20% more expensive here than they were in 2016. Perhaps Jaguar and Land Rover and other manufacturers in the UK will see an increase in home sales at the expense of the EU manufacturers ?

    Listening to David McAllister on Radio 4, he clearly cares nothing for the effect tariffs will have on German industry, stridently placing all the blame on the UK. Disgraceful, considering he is half-British and holds dual nationality.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

      +1

  15. Mike Wilson
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:41 am | Permalink

    The EU didn’t force us to have to rely on foreign gas and electricity. Our governments did that.

    The EU didn’t force us to buy loads of goods, we did that all by ourselves.

    • graham1946
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

      The Blair government were talking in 1997 about the end of our nuclear reactors and coal fired stations but did nothing about it. Same for the Tories who followed, that’s why we depend on the EU for power. I guess they thought they could integrate us fully into a region of the EU with all the big decisions being made in Brussels while they played at being politicians. They had no conception that the people would one day want to be independent again. Don’t forget, the Tories are the party of the EU, they took us in on a lie, lied again in the 1975 referendum, forced Maastricht through parliament without consultation even though it changed our 1000 year old constitution. Don’t trust any of them until e see what happens in January, and indeed it may be much longer before we see if we are being sold out again.

      • Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:12 am | Permalink

        INDEED – It was just accepted by our governments that we would lose control of many things, including power, so they did nothing to make sure we had an adequate supply.
        No wonder our country has so much failing infrastructure.

        All of which shows that we could never rely on the EU to do anything worthwhile for us – even when a power was conceded

        So, Boris – What are we going to do to keep the lights on?
        We all know we cannot rely on those useless windmills!

      • Peter Grimes
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

        And the other liar, Brown, sold off our nuclear building expertise.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:49 am | Permalink

      The EU stopped us supplying ourselves with eg milk using the quota system thereby forcing us to ‘buy loads of goods’. pS they also charge 65% tax on solar panels! So Green!

    • beresford
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

      Apparently Macron has suggested he might cut off the power if he is not allowed to control our territorial waters. This is why it is a mistake not to be self-sufficient in strategic commodities, even if ‘it can be bought cheaper elsewhere’.

    • dixie
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

      Our pro-EU governments did that.

      There is the EU without, which hopefully we will have left come 2021, and there is the EU within comprising the pro-EU supporters in our establishment and public sector.

      This pro-EU infestation will take longer to remove but until we do we will not have truly separated ourselves from the EU.

  16. Ian Wragg
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:47 am | Permalink

    Without serious change in the public sector we will continue to be dependent on the EU.
    Having jaunts to continental factories at taxpayers expense is far more appealing than a trip to Barrow on a wet Monday.
    I know from experience that French owned companies only offer French and German company cars. I took the allowance so i could buy my own.
    There is a very anti British mindset in the civil service which Cummings must address.

  17. Sharon
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:49 am | Permalink

    Giles B

    Facts4eu seem to agree with you.

    “Trade talks are over,” says no.10, but where’s the statement revoking the Withdrawal Treaty?
    The EU is now in de facto breach of the Withdrawal Treaty, which must be repudiated immediately.”

    I agree with their comment – until that’s done, we’re still at great risk of being entangled under EU disingenuous wording contained in the WA.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

      So what is your strategy for getting the legislation past the largely Remainer Commons and hugely Remainer Lords?

  18. Robert Bywater
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    > ….. need to be aware of just how far the EU had got in seeking our integration and submission to their system.
    Indeed so. And they are still at it from their bunker in Brussels. Never budging a centimetre themselves but always demanding concessions and more compliance from UK.

    > In future blogs I will be examining the scope there now is to improve so many things.
    Something to look forward to …

  19. Alan Jutson
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:57 am | Permalink

    Perhaps we can now revisit our foreign aid policy with trade and not aid as the way forward, to help developing countries move forward with their own efforts now being rewarded without huge tariffs on their goods.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

      +1 and no government funded charities whose employees humiliate the natives of desperate countries with outrageous demands!

  20. Everhopeful
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:58 am | Permalink

    O/T
    If the economy has been crashed in order to “Save the NHS clap, clap, then why am I being bombarded with health terrorism on the TV, through the post and in pop ups on my IPad? “Are you at risk from this that and the other?”
    How, if so pressed, will the NHS clap, clap even begin to deal with the resultant outpouringsof hypochondria?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      Another one just dropped through the letterbox inviting me to screening.
      How about the huge clap, clap backlog?

  21. DOM
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:06 am | Permalink

    This nation is not leaving the EU in a manner that satisfies the most fundamental demands of national sovereignty and independence.

    It is my belief that what we are seeing is an authoritarian, progressive socialist PM carefully constructing a veneer of a leader fighting for the UK interest when in fact he’s actually preparing for something quite different

    Will we still be subject to ECJ rulings?

    Will the British Parliament be able to pass laws that directly contradict all past EU-UK legislation

    Will we be able to enter into FTAs with other sovereign nations like the US (assuming the US doesn’t elect the Trojan Horse Biden)?

    What role with the EU play in the administration of British domestic and foreign policy?

    Will a future Labour government be able to take us back into the EU?

    I don’t trust Johnson nor any Tory since Thatcher after their total embrace of Labour’s politics of politicising human nature and their contempt for freedom of speech and freedom of thought.

    The contemporary Tory party is an offence to all forms of decency, morality and trust. They are now lower than Labour. At least with Labour we can see their hate and intent to harm

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      +1

      • Hope
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:15 am | Permalink

        Dom,
        Unless Johnson gets rid of the WA and PD the U.K. is very much tied to EU rules and arbitration for years to come.

        • agricola
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

          True, we know what we voted for but do not know what we are destined to get. Newspapers are pure speculation, at times they contradict themselves on the same page. I think we are owed a sitrep on exactly where we are with this negotiation so that we the electorate can voice our opinions. From such expressed opinions our negotiators can guage where they can effect compromise if needed. Leaving the electorate feeling cheated on the linchpin of UK sovereignty will assure the end of the conservative party and the emergence of a real Conservative party, if not using that name. In future only the lazy will permit the election and freedom of those elected to get on with it for five unquestioned years. Referenda should play a stronger part in our future democracy. The selection of candidates should come from within the constituency.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      This is not a question of trust. The talks have ended unless the EU comes crawling on their belly asking for an FTA. They will not do it!
      There Is legislation required for some housekeeping points, and the PM needs to tell both sides of the House that The WA – agreed by the EU, enacted in the House, entailed an FTA which has not been forthcoming: although the U.K. remains open to that. That leave no excuses for any MP to vote against!
      This is such good news that you simply can’t believe it. I too have waited decades and suffered agonies through the life-threatening Referendum, May WA votes (she brought it 5 times and withdrew twice, but I was traumatised 5 times!). Waiting for the announcement yesterday was again gut-wrenching, I had to contact MPs and ask where to get the live 11.00am coverage as I could not find it. It was eventually broadcast at 12.00noon, the longest hour! I still have a dull ache in my chest!
      Cheer up! We have our clean Brexit, we have much work to do to restore the U.K. but at least we can start that work now, having won the battle against Leviathan. Our generation lost and recovered our country. We are the only generation to have done that. Epic!

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

      +1

      Yes.

      A man who has broken solemn vows cannot be trusted for much else.

  22. agricola
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:14 am | Permalink

    If you systematically strip away the legal powers of a government, in this case the UK government, you negate their ability to govern. This is exactly what the EU did, and what 17.4 million people voted to reverse. It had a side effect of slowly putting MPs to sleep. It suited many, eighty thousand a year and more without responsibility.

    One of my concerns is the quality of the people we elect to govern. Can we seriously continue with individuals who know little about the subjects they have to deal with. No other career activity tolerates total ignorance and inexperience. They might be up to the eyeballs in the nuances of their chosen politics, but what use is that in all the situations that are screaming at us for rectification. All I can say is that I believe we can be a better country after bailing out our incompatible marriage to the EU.

    • graham1946
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:06 am | Permalink

      I agree. Problem is we don’t really get to elect who we want in Parliament – we get a choice from the people put up by the big party hierarchy regardless of any lack of talent or experience. We then get a government where the PM has to give big jobs to the people he thinks he owes a favour to and the boot lickers who won’t pose any threat, which is how we end up with the likes of Hancock in charge of the NHS which he has no training for, nor any knowledge of. Hunt previously managed its decline after the re-organisation disaster of 2012. People like JR are forced to sit on he back benches. The system is rotten to the core.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:13 am | Permalink

        We used to have the power to select our candidates freely until Heath introduced his doctored list!
        We Members need to recover that power. We can suss out a Tory!

        • Fred H
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

          I think in most cases the Electorate can be forgiven for thinking that word on the ballot paper ‘ Conservative’ means something. Now they know different.

      • Ian @Barkham
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

        +1+1

    • 'None of the above'.
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

      Well Said!

    • Original Chris
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      The calibre of our current PM is what concerns me greatly. He seems to lack basic knowledge, the will to apply academic rigour and scrutiny to the problems that this country faces, and he apparently lacks wisdom and common sense. He has been a great failure as PM, in my view, and it would appear that he does not possess the necessary to make us truly independent of the EU. He should have ditched the vassal state WA at the onset. That he failed to do so tells me all I need to know about his real intentions.

    • Ian @Barkham
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Mark B
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

      Agreed.

      It is not just the calibre of MP’s but, the calibre and loyalty (to the Crown and this nation) of the Civil Service. This in my view is of a more pressing need. Politicians and parties may come and go, but the CS remains and is the only constant. CS’s are the key to any nation irrespective of whether it is a democracy or not. The reason the EU is so powerful / influential is because it is one giant CS. The EEC / EU was created by CS (Jean Monet and Sir Arthur Salter), for CS’s and is run by them for their benefit. They see themselves as the unelected, and unaccountable, government of the people.

  23. Tabulazero
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    So how is « we hold all the cards » prediction turning up ?

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:39 am | Permalink

      Bullies rarely win in the end.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:53 am | Permalink

        What, exactly are you being bullied into not having?

        What is it that you want, that the “bullies” will not let you have?

        Come on, tell us, so that any reason-based mind can have a good laugh.

        • NickC
          Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

          Martin, Crowing about making the UK a colony of the EU is bullying.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted October 19, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

          You don’t answer the question, because what you want is ridiculous, and anyone seeing it written down would die laughing.

          Wouldn’t they?

      • Tabulazero
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

        Donald Trump must not have received the memo.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:14 am | Permalink

      Pretty bloody well!

      • Tabulazero
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

        That is the good thing with having low expectations.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:33 pm | Permalink

          Oh my demands are so high that I can’t be bought, I will settle for nothing less than a Sovereign country. We are on our way to resuming that normal dispensation.

  24. None of the above
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:24 am | Permalink

    Good article Sir John, now let’s get on with the necessary legislation. I was hugely relieved and delighted when I heard the PM.
    Amongst the few EU reactions published by MSM, the most bizarre was from Macron who was alleged to have said “Johnson needs to make his mind up” (or words to that effect).
    I couldn’t stop laughing.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:15 am | Permalink

      The British people made Johnson’s mind up. He knows he is PM solely because he promised to deliver Brexit.

  25. Richard1
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    The good thing if there is no deal is we will really find out which view is correct. Perhaps it will be the shrill hysterics of continuity remain, the eurozone will clearly outperform the U.K. economy and by the next election the public will be of the view that in retrospect we should have just stayed in.

    Or perhaps JR and his colleagues will be proved correct and the U.K. will be able to take advantage of the freedoms of independence and people will either wonder what all the fuss was about, or even better, realise the remain hysteria was nonsense and we are well out of it.

    The great thing is it will put massive pressure on the Conservative govt to implement radical policies to make sure Brexit is a success. There will be no time or scope for HS2 style gesture policies. The heat will be on starting Jan 1.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      How can we take advantage of anything when we are “Locked Down”.
      NB that term comes from PRISONS…it is done when the PRISONERS become recalcitrant.
      Does the 3,4, 5 or whatever on earth it is,Tier System (!!) have a No Risk category? Don’t think so! When will we prisoners be released?

    • Billy Elliot
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

      Yes I agree.
      If there really is no deal we will clearly see who was right. Will we really be the great traiding nation, prosper etc.

      Intresting experiment.
      But actually not an experiment: it touches the life and livehood of millions of people and countless of businesses.

      So if the otherside -remoaners – got it right that we get chaos, depression etc it will mean huge human suffering.
      And maybe even the end of the country known as Great Britan.

      Wait and see.

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

        Billy, Almost 70% of UK GDP is from trading domestically (with ourselves). The next 18% or so consists of our exports to the rest of the world. Finally, less than 13% of UK GDP comes from our exports to the EU. The EU is important to us, but really not that important – not important enough to squander our independence, nor put the other 87% of GDP in jeopardy.

        Remains thought that the UK would lose about 3% of GDP: PWC claimed between 0.8% and 2.7% loss by 2030; the IMF said about 3.5% loss by 2021; by becoming independent. Yet we’ve just lost approaching 30% GDP in the H1 this year due to the lockdown. That makes the experts estimations – even if they were right – of a Brexit loss merely a rounding error on the lockdown economic damage.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:18 am | Permalink

      Yes that is what Enoch said when he went around electioneering during the Common Market accession. He told people what the Contract said (it said a new country) but he said the people looked at him and thought (yes he could read minds) ‘you may be right, you may be wrong, we will just wait and see.’
      We waited.
      We saw.
      We are OUT!

    • DavidJ
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

      The Remoaners will do everything they can to frustrate our success and “prove” they were right. We must make sure that they are crushed.

      • Billy Elliot
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

        Well let’s wait and see for the outcome.
        Then we can determine if it was a succes.

        • dixie
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

          will you be around in 45 years?

    • Mark B
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

      Our nation was in existence long before the EU. We managed well before then and will do so again.

  26. Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    Doesn’t feel like we’ve left the EU yet, wasn’t mid October the cutoff point, where we’d announce no progress on talks and WTO here we come? I don’t watch the news so, genuinely, have I missed something?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:19 am | Permalink

      Yep! That’s what happened.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

      So how is it supposed to feel?

  27. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    And had we voted Remain you can guarantee that we would have been in the Euro in half the time that it has taken for us to Leave.

    The referendum really wasn’t about Leave or Remain. It was about Leave or Hard Remain.

    To Kill off the Eurosceptics and to go for full integration in double quick time.

  28. Jack Falstaff
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:47 am | Permalink

    If it normally takes a long time to cement trade deals, why have we been wasting so much of it focusing on concluding one with the EU?
    Just think of all the deals we could have already signed with other countries and blocs by now if we had just walked away and left in 2016!
    When you think of this and all the money squandered on “going into extra time” with the EU, then you get some idea of the immensity of the outrageous behaviour on the part of the British political class in keeping us dependent on the EU.
    Politicians are there to serve US and NOT themselves and their EU puppeteers!

  29. Mike Cooper
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    The positive stance made by Boris Johnson yesterday will be music to many ears and a death cry to Remoaners within all parties, Civil Service which has been very uncivil to the public they serve and the remainder of the Woke brigade that sought to thwart democratic decisions.
    As Sir John accurately states, the last government under Teresa May have this laid squarely at its feet. May and her EU loving cohort Robbins in a different age would have received the terrible punishment for treason. How an elected Conservative MP, promoted to PM from within could act in such a way beggars belief. Obviously behind the scenes the Remoaners were at work to ensure her tenure. I worry that those same traitors are still in positions of influence and have undoubtedly been behind much of the MSM garbage.
    Let’s hope we are finally on our way, but we must be aware of those who would do ANYTHING to stop our independence and return of full sovereignty.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:20 am | Permalink

      …and sack them!

    • DavidJ
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

      Indeed Mike; we need the restoration of a robust Treason and Sedition Law to prevent such people committing their evil deeds and getting away with it.

    • bill brown
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

      Mike Cooper

      You use a lot of strong words , such as treason , because you probably see conspiracies around each corner that do not really exist?

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

        bill brown

        Just because Blair repealed the treason laws doesn’t mean there is no treason.

        • bill brown
          Posted October 19, 2020 at 10:36 am | Permalink

          Steve,

          What I am saying use the workd when it is relevant not in the context of Mike Cooper’s argument

      • beresford
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

        One Remainer went to Brussels and said that his ’cause’ would be helped if the EU refused to negotiate with his own (British) Government. How would you describe this conduct, where an individual conspires with foreign countries to block the democratic decision of his countrymen? America has specific legislation criminalising such behaviour.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

        Bull if you think you can talk us out of our correct analysis of German Europe, you are knocking on the wrong door.

    • forthurst
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

      Obviously you have no insight into what takes place behind the curtain. The English will be allowed their freedom from the EU but will be denied the right to decide their destiny as a people. Their future will be multicultural because most of them are too thick to observe what is taking place all around them under their noses.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

        We will deal with that issue shortly. The second of Enoch’s great issues.

  30. Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    The EU was built, and run, on deceit – they hid their real goals behind fancy sounding objectives.

    Unless we do leave on WTO terms the EU will continue to take parts of us, to put under their control.

    Considering how power hungry the EU is, we should do everything possible to drain it of any of ours, which might make them stop and think, but doubtful — I had thought that Boris might be the man to do that.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:36 pm | Permalink

      ‘Ever closer union’ was never hidden.

      • Posted October 18, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

        It and many other things were hidden from the British people – Our politicians blatantly lied to us about the nature of the EU

      • hefner
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

        SW, +1, indeed the expression ‘ever closer union’ was already in the 1957 Treaty of Rome. It appears in the Preamble as ‘Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe …’.

        Those saying that they have been taken by surprise either do not know how to read, or never bothered to check those original EEC (and subsequent EU) documents, or more probably are little weather vanes just turning to the wind blowing from the Express, Sun, …
        Asked to jump they all say as one man ‘how high, Sir?’

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

          It was literally incredible (people could not credit, believe) that a British PM would conspire to destroy them.
          It’s the issue of the very big lie being easy to hide in plain sight, like the Gauleiter who advised a worried junior that even if the story of the death camps emerged, it was so horrific that nobody would believe it.
          So if you are into crime, forget the local bank, steal 28 countries, their citizens, the treasure, their Parliament.

          • Posted October 19, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

            +++

            Well said

          • bill brown
            Posted October 19, 2020 at 10:35 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            Yo are not taking your medicine as you promised

  31. The Prangwizard
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

    It’s time to go in for a good degree of protectionism. For decades now we have prostituted our nation. England has been ‘open for business’ which has meant anything and everything we have is for sale, and there can’t be much established that isn’t already sold.

    The new businesses which we hear about must not be sold, the practise of the past that as soon as they became viable City spivs sold them away so they could pocket a nice fat profit must end, immediately.

    • Rien Huizer
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      Protectionism requires certain strengths, currently lacking in a relatively small economy with a very weak external trade position, lots of public sector debt and a political class unsuited to enforce the sort of austerity that protectionism, necessarily followed by tit-for-tat on the part of trade partners, would require.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

        you seem to be talking about 20 or more of the 27!

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

        We’ve left, get over it.

      • Longus
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:44 pm | Permalink

        Your brain must be relatively small because the UK is the 6th biggest economy in the world by GDP.

    • Mitchel
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

      “anything and everything we have is for sale”.

      Not to mention ” everyone”

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:26 am | Permalink

      We had to sell everything because we had to fund the £250 billion that leave the U.K. every year. Pakistan for instance has a section in their budget called ‘Remittances (from Britain) – people sending money ‘home’. Then the charity sector sends billions out, so does the Govt. We have a Tourism deficit of £20 billion – we spend £20 billion more Abroad than tourists spend in the UK. The. Of course the largess to the EU, Ireland, The Commonwealth, the UN, paying for Germany’s Defence for 70 years etc etc etc.
      It can’t go on!

      • Mark B
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:38 pm | Permalink

        Agreed.

        In business you look at the balance sheet and see where the money is coming from and going. Now, if you can do it, why are those entrusted with looking after the Public Purse doing the same ?

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

          That’s why Diane Abbott is there. We need to demand much more form our representatives. Make them uncomfortable. I support Redwood for very high office because we simply can’t do without him and his ability in our corner. He would be better than Margaret. And we need the absolute best to get out of this mess.

  32. Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    There is a case for arguing that Grenfell was caused by using Eu approved cladding when British standards were much higher and could have prevented it (See Richard North’s blog). There is a strong suspicion that HS2 was created by compliance with DG MOVE – an EU plan to make one big railway system. Also the EU excludes a lot of African farming as well which is a pity.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

      It would be completely erroneous though.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

      Well the green crap movement was the main cause. The building did not need cladding at all. Then the moronic heads at the fire service sent everyone back to their flats even hours after it was perfectly clear to anyone with a brain that the fire was well out of control. Then we have the failure at building control and inflatable cladding standards. So now we can blame EU cladding standards to can we. Endless state sector failures as usual. Spending a fortune in tax payers money in the process too.

  33. fedupsoutherner
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    Quite simply, I never thought it would be so difficult for a country to decide it wanted to be sovereign and make its own laws. Having other countries still deciding what we can and can’t do makes me sick. I’ve never had much time for the French and now I know why.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:27 am | Permalink

      No Empire allows its satellites to abscond. The German Empire is no different.

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:51 pm | Permalink

        Lynn

        The EU is not a German empire, it’s a French empire.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

        If the Germans had spoken English as their first language, then which side do you think that this country would have taken in WWII?

        Hmm?

        • Fred H
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

          and If Germany had pursued joining the UK in a real technical, manufacturing and common ground partnership the current mess of Europe might well have outstripped USA and emerging Japan, Korea, India, S.America and possibly never allowed China to dump and squeeze the fools throughout Europe. Ah well!

    • Mark B
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

      One can always trust the French to be by your side when they need you 😉

    • NickC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

      Fedup, I knew the EU would make it difficult for us, but what I didn’t anticipate was how the Remains would not accept the result – I assumed losers’ consent, whichever way the Referendum vote went. How wrong I was.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

        +1

  34. Rien Huizer
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Mr Redwood,
    As I stated several times during the past four years, there is a distinct and entrenched lack of trust between the EU and the UK (imo the UK being the more opportunistic partner). This can only lead to a very thin agreement, if at all. Most Continental government as well as the EU bureaucracy have given up trying to present alternatives they feel could (and should in a rational world, not necessarily Oakeshottian) be to the benefit of both parties, because they feel they cannot rely on the UK to adhere to whatever it has committed to do or not do. It remains implausible, but this looks like it will have very grave consequences for the UK economy.

    Reply Leaving with no deal is a good outcome for the UK. The EU is now getting worried we mean it.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:31 am | Permalink

      Sir John, the EU were confused by the British PM May rejecting their offer of a FTA and advising them on how to negotiate so that she could de facto keep us in the EU. ‘Mutti said we wanted ‘a measure of Sovereignty’ and they did not know what measure, that’s why the EU were asking ‘what do you want?’
      May was a ‘double agent’, and a bad one.
      It is the Remainers who, deservedly, have a dreadful reputation and can’t be trusted by either side.

    • steve
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

      Rien Huizer

      “will have very grave consequences for the UK economy.”

      But we will survive and rebuild better, we are Churchill’s Island Race.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

        And we have not been conquered for 1,000 years!

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

          Nor have you attained emancipation from your conquerors.

    • Terry
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

      Reply to reply- the EU is long past worrying about what UK is up to- the main purpose of getting a deal was to avoid tariffs, paperwork and long queues which would suit us far more than it would suit them- but since it looks like we are leaving to WTO rules- am also sure that over the years decades to come some mutual considerations regarding trade can be worked out.

    • Original Richard
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

      Rien Huizer,

      The UK will be admired by democrats throughout the world, and even in the EU, for giving its people a chance to vote for the return of their sovereignty and thus the ability to be able to influence their laws and policies by retaining the right to vote for and remove those who make these laws and policies.

      Unlike those subjected to EU politicians, such as Mrs. Merkel, who said at the Konrad Adenauer Foundation in Berlin 21/11/2018 :

      “Sovereign nation states must not listen to the will of their citizens when it comes to questions of immigration, borders, or even sovereignty.”

      • Posted October 18, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

        That’s a wonderful quote. Just the sort of thing our universities and schools would not want their students to know about, and that our MSM would keep quiet about.

    • NickC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

      Rien Huizer, Is that why the EU withdrew Barnier’s staircase Canada style trade deal? Because the EU was desperately seeking to “present alternatives they feel could … be to the benefit of both parties? How noble, how altruistic! Actually, we regard the EU as completely untrustworthy because it seeks only to expand its own power at anybody else’s expense. It’s not that the EU is immoral, it’s amoral. But you won’t take our friendly warning until it’s too late.

  35. George Brooks.
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

    When I switched Sky news on yesterday it coincided with the PM’s statement on the EU negotiations after which the news presenter (framed between Adam Parsons, Europe correspondent and Sam Coates deputy political editor) asked for reactions from Brussels and London.

    It was their facial expressions that got me as they both looked like to small boys who had just been told that their favourite gold fish had been flushed down the toilet!!!!!

    Needless to say their reports were pretty flat and one sided

  36. formula57
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

    The Evil Empire is surely sowing the seeds of its own destruction with its integration and submission approach. Thank goodness we need now be no more than onlookers.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:57 am | Permalink

      You’re getting mixed up with the old “British” – English rather – Empire, I think.

      The Scots have realised that they are one of its last subordinate territories too.

      • steve
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

        MiC

        I am English, and I take offence at your comments.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

        😂😂the Welsh, Scots and Irish were all over the British Empire. I admit that in the colonies we referred to ‘England‘ meaning the 4 home nations. Anyone who reads Kipling knows that, and my Irish grandfather and Scottish grandmother were never offended. Proud in fact, and strove to live up to the standard set, which was high! I still do.

      • NickC
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

        Martin, No, we’re not getting mixed up, you are. I’ve never met a Leave voter yet who was bothered about the British Empire – you see it was dismantled before most of us were born. The only empire on the block is your EU empire.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

        and we pay more per capita for the downtrodden Scots…

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:37 am | Permalink

      Thanks to the brave few, including our host.
      “In the beginning of a charge, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.”
      – Mark Twain

  37. Original Chris
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Why did a Tory government sign us up to the EU Defence Policy, with all that entails, AFTER we had voted to Leave the EU?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

      Extremely good question.
      One I keep asking myself!

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

      Well Belgium and France owe us – Let alone the rest – we expect defence!

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

      Not a Tory Govt.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

      The appalling and evil Theresa (9% support) May. She is totally beneath contempt, even more appalling than John ERM Major.

    • NickC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

      Good question, Chris. And the government does not answer.

  38. Alan Paul Joyce
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    Dear @Andy & @MiC,

    I can’t work out if you’re still languishing in the 2nd stage of grief, i.e. anger, or you have moved on to stage 3 which is bargaining, where you are attempting to squeeze out a few last moments of pleasure out of the dependent relationship the UK has endured with the EU.

    Perhaps, you are feeling a little depressed? This is the 4th stage of grief.

    Never mind. The fifth and final stage; acceptance, is just round the corner.

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

      the final ones may include depression, mental illness and suicide.
      Just give it up and get a life. Move on to tourism in the EU, or flat battery cars!
      We might enjoy the discussions.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

        Natural causes will take care of most of the Leave vote in a few short years, leaving the young to undo their vicious madness.

        • Fred H
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 6:49 pm | Permalink

          or get really bitter when they find out we left everything to a cats home.

  39. rose
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:21 am | Permalink

    Have just heard you on LBC. They let you speak without interrupting! If only everyone in the media were as clear thinking and bright as you. You summed it all up perfectly.

    Reply Thanks

    • ChrisS
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

      Ditto !

      After your contribution on LBC, David Lammy was the host, talking about Brexit. He started off rather well, actually, having David Davies as a guest and they had an interesting and good natured conversation. Later, when he was accepting calls from the public, his anti-Brexit bias was in full flow !

  40. drachma
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:31 am | Permalink

    ” the common agriculture policy led to a sharp decline in the proportion of our food we grow etc” – of course this is not quite true – at any time British farmers could have competed by growing more food and putting it on the supermarket shelves the same as producers from other countries but instead chose the easier option of convenience which can also be called laziness and greed- I once witnessed a farmer drive his ‘merc’ around a field in order to inspect his cattle and could hardly believe what I was seeing.

    Then with so much bitterness showing through- I honestly don’t know how you can live with yourself- after forty five years of mostly UK/ Tory led membership of the EU where we had more than an equal say in all matters successive governments and officials were never able to network to our advantage- but that it is hardly the fault of the other 27- and now to blame everyone but ourselves for our own incompetence? – can only say any unhappiness with our lot is pathetic

    • Fred H
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

      you seem to forget for many years dairy farmers were forced to operate at zero profit by UK supermarkets. Eventually many gave up- the quotas not allowed sufficient paid production – rest down the drain. I personally know 2 brothers (and one has 2 sons who see no future in taking over) in the Lake District. One brother diversified out of farming, the other relies on sheep. So would you prefer a French farmer drive his luxury car on his fields or the British one? Simple question?

      • drachma
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

        No.. am talking about tillage and vegetables corn oats barley wheat am talking about sugarbeet and turnips, am talking about pigs poultry.. it’s all gone not fully but almost gone..it was all there once time in abundence for home consumption.. am afraid what happened was anyone who could go to the CAP.. no need to say anything more

    • Robert Mcdonald
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

      We never had any serious say in the eurocracys wishes. One of 27, and the eu was led by the nose by Germany and a bit looser by France.

      • drachma
        Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:23 pm | Permalink

        Robert.. UK had every say but it choose instead to take a backseat.. and despite what you think luxembourg and malta have as much say at the Council as France and Germany.. they have a veto.. their MEP’s might not have the same voting strengths in the Parliament but that is another matter. From forty years ago you guys have been whinging about the Eu.. starting with bendy bananas then electrical plugs.. anyway you can live with it now.. as an aside Brits are still called the whinging pomms in Australia.. there is a reason

        • Posted October 18, 2020 at 7:49 am | Permalink

          I didn’t want us to join the EU and am glad we’re leaving. I do think there’s something in what you are saying, we could have been a lot tougher, clever and ruthless in our negotiations with the other members. We also suffered from a tendency to “gold plate” EU regulations by interpreting (and then enforcing) them more harshly than others did, to our own sole detriment.

        • Robert Mcdonald
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

          Thank you for reinforcing the basis of my comment, we are the 5 / 6th largest economy in the world (we were 4th in 75), and we had no more say than Luxembourg and Malta in our future.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

      Drachma, until you are reinstated, Greece does not exist!
      No British farmer drives Mercs around our wet and muddy fields, are you speaking of olive groves or maybe fake olive groves? Have you heard of quotas – that’s the mechanism the EU uses to stop British farmers producing what we ourselves consume, so that we have to buy from the continent.
      By saying ’our’ and inferring that you are British you are guilty of Identity theft.

      • drachma
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:58 am | Permalink

        Lynn just because I use drachma means naught..same as you I can be anybody

  41. Annette
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 10:56 am | Permalink

    What I find most disturbing is how the creeping, rachet of EU control (as in your piece) appears to have been hidden from the British public for all these years. It could only be due to active collusion with a foreign power. Deliberate acts by successive Govts to withhold just how much of our independence & sovereignty (& resulting impact on our now faux ‘democracy’) had been given away is manifestly dishonest. ‘Democracy’ became mere manipulation in order to pass laws made by a foreign power. We know why they wouldn’t tell us. It’s because we would not have agreed.
    It is a terrible indictment of our current system that those who knew & objected, and the even fewer brave enough to speak out, still ‘went along with it’. This is what I want to see and end to. Restore proper democracy.

    • Anonymous
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

      ‘Democracy’ became mere manipulation in order to pass laws made by a foreign power.

      ….
      nothing has changed, the lockdown tyranny proves it.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

      I love a ratchet. You flip a switch and it ratchets in the opposite direction.

  42. Barbara
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Quite right and thank you John Redwood for your part in making this happen.

  43. Ian @Barkham
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    The Euro as a project was for the most part about supressing the currencies export value for the benefit of Germany. It is the Southern States that bear the brunt of this disparity, as in their local cost are disproportionately greater than their individual economy’s can support.

    The Common Agriculture Policy is one of those Cartels that ramp up prices on the one hand, while undermining Nations outside of the EU with excessively subsidies on food products. An illustration of the EU ‘level playing field’ it means anyone but them. The WTO is the World Organisation to administer and call to order unfair subsidies, but the EU ignores them.

    What is missed is when we talk about fishing and when the EU talks about fishing they are two different conversations. A lot of people including the MsM seem to interpret it to mean just the UK’s Exclusive Economic Zone. What the EU wants is that and the UK Territorial Waters – that is the bit between the beach and the horizon under their control. That is disingenuous.

    It must be the same elsewhere, but sit on the headlands around Mounts Bay (That’s the bay outside Newlyn) and you will see fishing boats, the greater majority bar far being EU boats. The EU fishing fleets have fished out their own coastal zones now they wish to inflict the same disproportionate damage to the UK’s coastal waters. As you say Sir John the UK is now reliant on imports of fish. It is Cod from China we are forced to import to feed the nation. That just cant be right. Then when you add in this years images of the EU’s massive deep sea boats trawling up everything they can find in the North Sea in a protected area during the breading season. You get the feeling the EU is all about destruction.

    We only ever got to vote on a ‘Clean Break’ and that is about as complicated as we want it.

  44. DavidJ
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    In other words our membership of the EU has been an unmitigated disaster on all fronts.

    Hopefully Sir John you can convince Boris of that and help get us the Leaving of the European Union that we voted for.

  45. Donna Walker
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

    Those who signed us up to the EU’s subjugation with no mandate from the people should be kicked out of the Conservative Party, if they’re still alive, and tried for treachery.
    What they did to this nation is unforgiveable.

    Gordon Brown was a dreadful Chancellor and even worse Prime Minister. But I am eternally thankful that he prevented Blair from trapping us in the EU by imposing the Euro on us. Because I doubt very much that Blair would have honoured his “promise” to hold a Referendum first.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

      Actually..it looks like they have signed us up to something much worse!

    • steve
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

      Donna Walker

      “Those who signed us up to the EU’s subjugation with no mandate from the people should be kicked out of the Conservative Party, if they’re still alive, and tried for treachery.
      What they did to this nation is unforgivable.”

      Yes I’ve often thought that too. Unfortunately most of the politicians responsible have passed away.

      I concluded it would be informative to have a dossier in public record of all those who have weakened this country, not just politicians. We have a right to know.

      • Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

        That’s a really interesting idea. We tend to be able to rattle off the names of those who have helped our country, and their deeds are an inspiration to later generations. But it would also be instructive to examine those who have harmed us, so we could identify such behaviours when they repeated themselves.

        For example the Mosleyites who would have led us into a fascist future, or those on the left (you see, I can’t name any!) who would have led us into communist totalitarianism instead. We currently have supporters of the Woke movement, who seem hellbent on destroying liberal democracy such that it is replaced by “therapeutic totalitarianism” as it has been called. That dossier needs doing now.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

      Brown did it for his own reasons. He knew that being in the EURO meant that he and the Labour Party would not be able to spend, spend, spend once he was PM. Believe me, if there were no such restrictions we would have been in.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

      Thank Jimmy Goldsmith! He got a commitment to a Sterling Referendum from Major, then we kept up the pressure so Major always knew he would lose it, so never called it.

  46. steve
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

    Macron is the cause of no deal. He will have caused Germany to loose a lot of money – dead man walking.

    Decades of French greed, ungratefulness, napoleonic arrogance and childish brat insistence on being in the driving seat caused this.

    No deal is the best outcome for us as we don’t have to make any concession to the ungrateful. We can also for once in history enjoy a ringside seat as Germany fetches one to the ungrateful french, we won’t be getting involved.

    • Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      Schadenfreude. We can even use a German word while we watch it.

      I do recall a summer school for French boys where I briefly taught, here in the UK. The kids were allowed one organised 1hr games session (soccer), which was the absolute highlight of their day. Each teacher took a randomly selected group of 22 or less. “You pick the teams” a colleague advised me.

      My first day I ignored this advice, selected two captains and told them to take turns picking team members from the rest. I sat back while they spent the next hour arguing amongst themselves, as those picked refused with bad grace to join the alotted side unless their friend was chosen too, or they attacked their captain for his choice, or they called out their term members as being useless,neta etc. I thought it more instructive to let them waste their precious time than step in and restore order. Oh to see their faces when I blew the whistle and called time on the games session.

      The main aim of British boys would have been to get a game of soccer, even if imperfect.. But for these kids the main aim was to get their way, even if it meant losing the opportunity to do what they ‘d been looking forward to.

      • Fred H
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

        A wonderful lesson – sadly none of the EU movers & shakers could have been in the groups.

  47. an idea
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

    I am a conservative in principle but Andy Burnham hor PM.

  48. bill brown
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    Sir JR

    As far as I am concerned negotiations are still on-going nad I believe a deal will ultimately be found either before or after 31st December.

    “Committed to Russian Gas” there is actually no certain figure on how much Russian gas we import, but it is about 1 % (2018) as it comes via Continental pipe lines. So making us (Committed on Russian gas is probalby a bit steep, as we import most from Norway and they have no link to Russian gas.

    • Edward2
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

      Over 40% of the EU’s gas comes from Russia.

      • bill brown
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

        Edward 2

        It is actually less than 40% and I was talking about the UK not the rest of teh Eu, so get it right.

        • Edward2
          Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

          I was quoting reliable sources.
          Are you sure?

          I realise you were referring to the UK but I was suggesting that your EU is becoming very dependent on Russian gas.

          • bill brown
            Posted October 19, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

            Edward 2

            my EU, when did this happen?

          • Mitchel
            Posted October 19, 2020 at 11:00 am | Permalink

            And it will become increasingly reliant on Russian control of trade routes that will assume considerable importance in coming years as EU-China trade develops.Russia,in March,has begun to allow EU fresh produce to cross it’s borders via the quickest route to China.Russia applies the electronic seal and track technology at the EU-Belarus border.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

      As far as ‘Germany is concerned’ Bull, do you speak for Germany?
      But the fact is that negotiations are over.
      You can crawl on your belly and beg us for a FTA. No negotiation.

      • bill brown
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson,

        You are as usually bad informed, Johnson has set that for the moment teh negotiations are over but he has not excluded furthe negotiations he believes things change.
        I do not know how many Brits will crawl on thier belly, will you ?
        Or, are you mixing me up with somebody else again?

    • NickC
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:09 pm | Permalink

      Bill B, What the PM believes is no more negotiations until the EU is more realistic, accepts our sovereignty, and backs down. What you believe is up to you, but of no consequence.

      • bill brown
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

        NickC

        I totally agree with your interpretation on Johnson’s position.

        And I also agree with you that what you and I belive is of no consequence.

        Thank you for a very valuable contribution, once more.

  49. Original Richard
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:34 pm | Permalink

    Not only has the EU sought to make us dependent upon them but has used our taxpayers’ money to corrupt our politicians, civil servants, MSM, educational establishment, judiciary, quangos and corporates by paying for grants, hand-outs, endowments, awards, freebies and subsidies.

    This is why we have so many UK people who support the EU and who are actively working against the interests of the UK and attempting to block the necessary actions to make a successful exit from the EU.

    Our establishment elites have never shown either the skill or willingness shown by other Europeans to use EU membership to benefit our country.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:27 am | Permalink

      Good point.

      I argue that your last paragraph can be put down to our voting system. It is a winner takes all system whereas on the continent they have proportional representation so every vote matters. Here in the UK to get into power one only has to really concentrate on key marginals as most are already in the bag a rarely change. This leads to politicians on the continent to work harder to keep their seats and a good way is to fight their corner. Our lot are just mostly voting foder.

    • bill brown
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      Original Richard,

      It would be useful to have some real facts to prove your statement, please

      • Edward2
        Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

        Time for you to provide some alternative facts bill perhaps?

        • bill brown
          Posted October 19, 2020 at 10:32 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          whenever you do that you get the facts wrong

  50. Everhopeful
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:45 pm | Permalink

    Andy Burnham is involved in Cities for Global Health…a global network of cities with some very unpleasant anti democratic plans.
    That is what his fake rebellion is probably all about.
    The globalist agenda.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

      Sorry.
      Answer to “an idea”.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:23 am | Permalink

      Cheers

      This is the thing. It is all these little networks and organisations, many I assume in receipt of taxpayer money, that have the ear of politicians. It is a favourite practice of the Left to use these front organisations to push for slow revolution.

    • bill brown
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      Everhooeful,

      Can we have some proof of this very imaginary claim, please?

      • a-tracy
        Posted October 19, 2020 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

        Just google it bill “Greater Manchester is to join a global network of cities” …. lots of posts about what Burnham has joined up with.

  51. Leslie Singleton
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John–Off topic but of highest importance I assume you up to speed on the bill (which I have only just heard of) that one of your colleagues (Philip Nunn sp?) is putting forward in mid November. The subject is prevention of farmers’ dumping animal slurry in to streams and rivers. This is a perfectly ghastly practice and I hope you agree and will root for it. They euphemistically call it “spilling”. Downstream, the river just becomes somebody else’s drinking, and swimming, water not to mention the excessive weed growth and what did the fish do to deserve it? Effluent from especially cows should go on to the land as God’s natural fertiliser instead of the wretched modern chemicals.

  52. Treacle
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

    Are we able now to stop paying the £39 billion to the EU, which was always contingent on a trade deal (“Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”)?

  53. Anonymous
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    Lancashire council said they were threatened if refused lockdown. This is TOTALLY unacceptable.

  54. UKQanon
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    Looking forward to a Donald Trump landslide, followed by total panic in the UK Establishment and a collapse of the EU. Nothing can sto is coming.
    Wake up people.

    • bill brown
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      UKQanon,

      You must live in a different universe, neither of your predictions are going to be fulfilled as we stand today.

  55. M Brandreth- Jones
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    Come on we are encumbered with slow and slower . Everyone thought this before many of the government , then they come up with an idea 10 -20 years too late.We had the big boot on top of us for even daring to speak out.

  56. XYXY
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

    I agree that the “establishment” and “the previous Parliament” were getting in the way (and many of them are in this one, especially in the HoL)…

    I wonder if our host will be brave enough to actually write a piece to share his views with us as to why they do it?

    Does it not strike anyone as a strange thing to do, when it’s so clear to so many that membership of the EU is wrong on all levels?

    Perhaps that’s too sensitive a subject for a serving MP – one for the memoirs, perhaps.

    • beresford
      Posted October 17, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

      The EU is a predecessor of the globalist plan now being rolled out on a wider scale for a post-democratic world in which individual nations and cultures have been eliminated by mass immigration and indoctrination of the young. As discussed a few days ago there are a lot of influential people behind this. They would call it Communism only that name has already been used. This is why Democrat candidate Sleepy Joe Biden has just accused Hungary and Poland of being ‘totalitarian regimes’ because of their failure to comply with the programme. And why he wishes to force us back into the arms of the EU.

    • Mark B
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 4:19 am | Permalink

      An easy life. Money. And the fact that they see themselves as more European than British. To them, holidaying in France or Italy is much like normal people holidaying to Brighton or Blackpool.

      One nation. Two peoples.

  57. Andy Lestocq
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

    Sir John
    Exeter Chiefs have just won the European Championship (Rugby Union) . The French fought but were beaten by a better side . A future omen .

  58. Bruan
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

    What a whinge! you guys won so get over it

  59. gregory martin
    Posted October 17, 2020 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

    Having a quiet morning today, without the joys of shopping, visiting the pub or teaching the grandkids the rules of cricket, I decided it might be wise to start revising the advice for a No deal departure:
    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-governments-preparations-for-a-no-deal-scenario/uk-governments-preparations-for-a-no-deal-scenario
    only to discover the advice was withdrawn in February 2020, with no obvious revision.
    Can you help?

  60. Dennis Zoff
    Posted October 18, 2020 at 1:04 am | Permalink

    The “Withdrawal Treaty” is an abomination and entraps the UK into continued EU subservience!

    If the Prime Minister is serious about trade talks being over, now is the time to announce that the Withdrawal Treaty is null and void? Then we can be reassured the PM is serious?

    John, please urge the Prime Minister most strongly to announce this essential move.

    • XYXY
      Posted October 18, 2020 at 11:12 am | Permalink

      Dennis –

      Any such move will happen after 1/1/21.

      We must be able to show that we are negotiating in good faith, in case of any future arbitration.

      Also, the PM’s modus operandi is to show the public what’s happening then when he does something about it, they are onside. The current process is all about taking the moral high ground, showing the public what the EU are doing, why it’s wrong and how we are being treated. The British public won’t take kindly to that.

      When we are out and the EU try to prevent goods moving from, say, Wales to NI… then we will start to repudiate the WA, piece by piece. There may need to be HoL reform first or there will be endless battles against the remoaner rearguard – although I suspect that the parliaments Acts will be invoked at some point to push through necessary legislation.

      Before that happens, the long-awaited changes to “politics by legal action” will need to be in place or any such move would run into yet more legalities along the lines of the self-defeating Miller case.

      And with the need to threaten a GE, they will also want the fixed-term Parliaments Act repealed or adjusted and the boundary changes implemented.

      With those ducks in a row… then the WA can be addressed.

  61. Peter D Gardner
    Posted October 19, 2020 at 1:38 am | Permalink

    This is exactly what is required. The only way to heal the divisions in UK is to ensure Brexit delivers its potential to make UK more prosperous and that the freedom to make its own laws results in better laws. Failure to do so will worsen division by convincing Remainers they were right, by encouraging Scottish Nationalists and seeding resentment and disillusion in Northern ireland and encourage the Northern Irish to look to Dublin and unification of Ireland.
    May I suggest also that while UK seems to making regulatory preparations and practical arrangements for matters like customs it is awfully negligent in other areas. The most obvious one is fishing.
    The UK has no means of enforcing its regulations in its forthcoming EEZ. All it can do is to compile a perfect picture using extremely expensive high tech aircraft and warships. The UK does not have any ships capable of preventing illegal fishing by skippers who don’t cooperate. Neither has it any vessels capable of fending off attacks on British vessels. If anything is being done to address these gaps in capability I have not seen any evidence of it in the public domain.
    The second seems obvious but again there is no evidence of it. UK needs to grow its fishing fleet, its fish processing capability and its fish exporting capability outside the EU. This would be tie in neatly with investing in the midlands and north of England and in Scotland and with the sensible emphasis on creating new jobs rather than preserving old jobs. Is anything being done at all?
    I am not sure the Government is aware of the vastness of its responsibilities in its EEZ under the UNCLOS. UK will require significantly enhanced scientific research and analysis to support its fishing and its new responsibilities for management of the marine environment in its EEZ. This is UK’s sole responsibility from 1 January 2021 and yet the Government seems to be completely unaware of it. It is also another source of new jobs and investment with demonstrable returns on the investment.
    Gaining an EEZ for the first time in UK’s history is an opportunity screaming for investment and an unassailable business case. Yet we hear nothing from the Government.
    Finally what has happened to the new free ports of which UK once boasted it would build? Is anything at all being done to build them?

  62. Frest
    Posted October 19, 2020 at 8:56 am | Permalink

    How much have any of us done for ourselves today John?

  63. bill brown
    Posted October 19, 2020 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    Edward 2

    my EU, when did this happen?

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    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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