The EU believes in tariffs

There is a double irony in the Remain position on trade. They say a free trade agreement with the EU is crucial, whilst doing everything in their power to stop us having free trade agreements with all those other non EU countries who would like one . They pose as free traders, claiming tariffs are harmful, yet they fully support EU trade policy which makes use of very high tariffs on agricultural and food products to protect domestic farming and the food industry, and seeks to use a 10% tariff on non EU cars to help single market producers.

So which is it? Is free trade essential to our future? Or do selective tariffs do good and protect domestic industries sensibly?

The theory of free trade tells us that a country is better off with free trade than with tariffs. If, however, you take this to the logical conclusion that you might as well surrender all your tariffs with no reciprocation from overseas you may well find domestic industries damaged by aggressive overseas competition, to be followed by price hikes once the domestic industry has been demolished. Arguably the West has been too generous to China, offering low or no tariffs under WTO rules whilst allowing China to maintain big protectionist barriers of various kinds.UK industry lost out badly when we went to zero tariffs against German and other continental steel, car and and textile manufacturers in the 1970s.

I favour bilateral or multilateral reduction of tariffs and other barriers. As we leave the EU’s single market and customs union we are free to choose tariffs or no tariffs, and to decide how high they should be,. The only proviso is we need to impose the same tariff on all WTO members, unless they have a Free Trade Agreement with us. In the case of food it means we can lower tariffs on non EU countries whilst imposing some tariff on EU food, which will act as a stimulus to recapture market share for domestic producers lost over our years in the CAP and Customs Union.

So let us once and for all get rid of the silly lies put around about trade

1 We can trade well and grow our trade without a Free Trade Agreement, as we have done during our time in the EU with non EU countries

2 Tariff free does not guarantee good trade growth, as have seen in recent years within the tariff free single market in the EU

3, Most Free Trade Agreements are useful and can add a bit to trade.

4. Lop sided trade agreements can be damaging, as our EU has been to our farming and fishing industries.

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342 Comments

  1. Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:13 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    It is not a FTA with the EU they seek, but a new EU Membership. One that replicates the old minus representation in the EU Parliament. Can’t have the likes of NF spoiling their little cosy club.

    It is clear that the Remainers will not give up and will continue to work against the will of the people. We have seen that once all the government institutions are placed under the spotlight, they fail. Having someone else to blame (e.g. the EU) is a great way of maintaining ones well paid job with little work to do other than just rubber stamp and implement the latest EU Directive.

    Here in the UK, as was touched upon by so many yesterday, we need to deal with the ‘Chumocracy’ that has developed. Getting out of the EU proper would deal a blow to the ‘Chumocracy’ and would go someway to stop the rot.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:56 am | Permalink

      Precisely, the EU wants us as associate members with all the obligations but no say.
      Mays WA was Precisely this.
      There is still time for Boris to cave andr I have just emailed my tory mp telling him he won’t get my vote if we don’t secure control of borders, laws and fishing.
      People are watching and the tories are finished as a serious party if we are still attached to the EU and haven’t stopped the illegal invasion from France.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

      +1

      Yes everything is about control, control and rule. The EU respects UK sovereignty as long as they the EU stay in charge and the UK jumps to their tune. In that they have broken the so-called WA agreement.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

        Good article in Con Home about how the real consequences of the NIP is becoming clearer by the day. Effectively giving N.Ireland to EU.

        May is absolutely despicable. She needs to be investigated and punished.

        JR, Why is Johnson not walking away and repudiating the WA and NIP? Are any of you advocating this or promoting it?

        OT, Lord Sumption gave a very good lecture yesterday- an edited version in Spectator. It goes to the heart of how this govt is governing by decree, circumventing parliamentary scrutiny, sneaky underhand procedure rather than proper parliamentary process. It could be viewed the same conduct of govt. applies to today’s blog by JR.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

        Dr Mike Yeadon Former CSO & VP Allergy Respiratory Research Pfizer Global R&D 29th Oct 2020

        He explains there are not excess deaths – the pandemic is over

        Search – Anna Brees on You Tube

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

        London Ambulance Service on twitter

        Sadly, the number of suicide and attempted suicide incidents we attend are increasing.

        Our crews now attend an average of 37 suicides or attempted suicides per day, compared to 22 in 2019 and 17 five years ago.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

        Ian@Barkham

        We ahve also broken the WA, so let us not advertise too much and thereby international law

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

          When you say ‘we’ you mean the EU? Yes they have refused to negotiate as agreed.

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            Just as we did then we broke international law

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

            And the Withdrawal Agreement fails if there is no agreement with the EU.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            NO I mean Britian as you would write it

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

            @bill brown, which international law, exactly?

          • Posted October 31, 2020 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

            You wont get a reply Dixie bill doesn’t do facts.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      Meanwhile another murder in a French church.

      While we continue to allow illegal entrants, based in France, to penetrate our borders.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:13 pm | Permalink

        We just don’t allow – we encourage

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:41 pm | Permalink

        Three murders, actually, and staff at the French Consulate in Saudi Arabia have been violently attacked too.

        Following President Macron’s only natural words in support of his country’s people and of its values, his image has also been burnt in some countries along with the French flag.

        Are these values that he voiced different from the UK’s in this respect?

        If not, then why has its Government not announced its solidarity with France in this regard?

        If they are different, then what are they?

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 2:03 am | Permalink

          +1

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

          Perhaps we’re sensibly keeping our heads down Martin in order not to get them chopped off and insight these people in the UK. If we speak out we are called racist so let the EU take this one and speak out on this one after all what can ‘little England, the insignificant rump’ do.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 9:27 am | Permalink

            Incite

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:57 pm | Permalink

        +1

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      Mark, correct. JR fails to mention IDS article where he makes the point the FTA is about goods not services as the EU refuses to discuss. IDS points out Goods alone is no good to the UK but only hella tne EU lopsided trade defict!

      Both should be discussed at the same time or nothing at all. Why help German led EU exports.

      This was NEVER about a trade deal. Just as joining was not about economics. It was and is a con.

      May’s WA and NIP was a bridge and trap back to full EU membership. Both gave the EU no incentive to agree a trade deal because the U.K. would be trapped. Hence why May so angry in parliament with Internal Market Bill disapplying some of her trap! For the U.K. to implement the IMB demonstrates quite graphically the threat by the EU was more than act of bad faith.

      The question ought to be: why is the U.K. Still talking and not walking based on what JR says above?

      Another example this is not about trade is security, data sharing etc etc. This should be totally separate discussion not linked whatsoever with trade.

      It was clear from May’s dishonest behaviour at Chequers and sneaking off to Ireland that she had no intention of implementing the public mandate to leave the EU. Article 50 did not require a WA or NIP deal to leave.

      Johnson is betraying the nation what is going on is theatre.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

        The NIP is not May’s, it’s Johnson’s! May refused to break up our Union, Johnson did it supported by every single Conservative MP. Now he tries to weasel out of it but too late! If you want to angry, fine, but be angry with the right person

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

          No, it is a revised minor tweak. Most intelligent right minded people think he ought never have signed any of it.

          I do agree he has lied to say it was a new deal or that May’s deal was dead or that Brexit was done.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:24 pm | Permalink

        JR, would you like to comment in the paper from the think tank CBB?
        Why was May allowed to give up N.Ireland and entangle our country to EU with the WA and NIP forever ?

        27 Oct 2020: The EU won’t let us trade normally – either with a deal or on “Aussie terms”‘
        ‘We won’t even be able to trade like Australia unless we ditch or amend Withdrawal Agreement,’ says Brexit think tank – includes IDS statement to Facts4EU.Org

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      Not a good time to drone in about the “Will of the People “. YouGov polled 1,623 British adults in September and found that 50% now believe Britain was wrong to leave the E U the highest figure recorded. Only 39% back leaving .

      What people are you talking about ?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:58 pm | Permalink

        So a solitary poll of 1623 adults trumps a referendum now, does it?

        (I wonder how well the polls will have predicted the US election. If that turns out badly for them, maybe it will put an end to reliance on polls like this.)

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

        That will be why we voted in an anti-Brexit government in 2019 then ?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

        A self-selecting sample is no sample. Did YouGov even bother to check that the respondents were entitle to vote on the issue?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

        Newmania:

        There is a reason we have elections, not rule by opinion poll. Grow up.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

        1623 out of the referendum electorate of over 33 million.
        You still cannot accept you lost.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:56 pm | Permalink

        Yet every vote since supports leaving the EU.

        What is it with people and polls ?

        They ignore elections and referenda that don’t go their way but cite polls … but only when it suits them.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:29 am | Permalink

      Leavers did not give up, and worked against a 68:32 emphatic Will Of The People for over forty years, aided by a campaign of lies spread largely by a major US resident-owned UK press section.

      The campaign for a proper, neighbourly, mutually-beneficial relationship with the rest of Europe – of which the UK is eternally a part – will continue, and quite properly and openly, competing proposals will form parts of party manifestoes for elections.

      This is going to run and run.

      Leaving the European Union is the beginning – the opposite of the end – of arguments about our relationship with it.

      John’s piece is based on a truism though – all trading associations or nations rely to a degree on tariffs to maintain their structures – notably the US. However, the more fragmented the world of trade is, the more barriers there will always be. The UK has moved against the trend for removing them, and quite forcefully.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

        Complete nonsense
        The UK has consistently argued for the benefits of free trade.
        It gives really poor nations a chance to become a bit better off.
        You want that to happen I presume?

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:14 am | Permalink

      You spent more than 40 years campaigning against the pro-European will of the people – as expressed in the 1975 referendum and the 8 subsequent general elections. All of which returned massive majorities of pro-Europe MPs from a pro-Europe electorate.

      Having made promises you have spectacularly failed to keep in 2016 it is no wonder that there is, again, a pro-European majority in this country.

      I bet you a few dozen lorry parks, 50,000 pointless Brexit pen pushers, price hikes, an ETIAS visa waiver and missed opportunities for your children and grandchildren that your Brexit will be undone pretty swiftly.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:22 pm | Permalink

        What are you on about ? You wanted us to build houses on the lorry parks so the working classes didn’t come and live next to you.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

        A general election under the rigged first past the post system gives no opportunity to elect an anti EU membership government. It you know that and try to pretend otherwise.

        One can but hope we leave with enough acrimony that rejoining will never be considered by either side. When we do actually leave and things settle down, others will consider leaving too.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

        Andy:
        What party won the last EU election?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

        “A pro-European majority in this country”? Based on what? A single Poll of just 1623 adults out of an adult population of 30,000,000? Why that is all of 0.005% of us. So, with your logic, it must be another of hapless May’s ‘meaningfuls’? LOL no chance.
        Face it! The country voted to Leave the EU and the May Government tried their damnest to reverse it. They have failed as did she and now, with our new entry of Brexiteer MPs and by Act of Parliament we are really leaving on New Year’s Eve. With or without a FTA and it matters not which because we shall be FREE! And that was the primary reason we voted to remove the shackles placed upon us by the cosy cabal of unelected foreigners who ruled our lives.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        I bet that an hours-long wait, rubbing shoulders with “the rest of the world” in the non-European Union passport holders queues at those holiday airports will increase that majority rather too, Andy.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

          My experience over decades is that EU delays were caused by mainly French industrial action.

          Queues are random.
          Sometime you walk straight up.
          Other times there is a packed arrival hall.
          From Miami to JFK New York to Malaga and Amsterdam

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:30 am | Permalink

      Mark B, As our capacity to make real things has diminished, the “chumocracy” has expanded. One result is that almost everything has been politicised, from how children are brought up to what views we are allowed to have on pain of being ostracised or losing your job. To the BBC and their clones on here, unthinkingly, the EU empire is commendable but a democratic vote to Leave is derided as “populism” exercised only by the thick and uninformed.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      Completely agree – wise words, the only level playing field is to leave first then negotiate as equals

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

        Indeed glen; May’s intent was clearly that of effectively keeping us in without any corresponding influence.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

        +1

    • Posted October 31, 2020 at 5:50 pm | Permalink

      Agreed

  2. Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:31 am | Permalink

    ‘Arguably the West has been too generous to China, offering low or no tariffs under WTO rules whilst allowing China to maintain big protectionist barriers of various kinds.’ This sentence didn’t need the first word.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:48 am | Permalink

      Sea Warrior, Both Germany and China have benefited from mercantilism. If their currencies more accurately reflected their economies their export prices would be higher and their exports would be less successful. Certainly some countries treat trade as war. And most countries are a sight more nationalistic than we are.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

        Nick:

        You are right. The Euro is a huge benefit to Germany, as it keeps its exports artificially cheap. Similarly, the Chinese Yuan is linked to the US Dollar, rather than floating freely. Given China’s trade surpluses, the Yuan should be far stronger, and this would act as a balance. But that is what you get when you have a system of world wide fiat currencies.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

        Nick C

        This is absolute nonsense, this would also apply to the UK with an undervalued currency and this is unfortuantely not teh case. So get your facts straight for next time.

  3. Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    You write: “I favour bilateral or multilateral reduction of tariffs and other barriers.” But you obviously don’t. In the EU there are zero tariffs. The EU makes up almost half of our export trade, but your Brexit will bring about massive increases in tariffs because we will no longer benefit from the tariff-free trade enjoyed by EU members. Can we make up for that by cutting tariffs with the rest of the world? No, because in most areas EU tariffs are already very low – they are zero for trade with the world’s poorest countries – and where they are not low, eg for agriculture, they exist to protect farmers – and if you plan to slash tariffs on food after Brexit, I’d love to see you explain that to British farmers put out of business by cut-price imports. So as ever you simply do not understand the economics, and you are running scared from the politics.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

      I’d love to see you explain why the British taxpayer should have subsidised inefficient French farmers for decades.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      We pay 20 billion a year for the privilege of “free trade” with the EU, more than we would pay net of tariffs.

      • Posted October 31, 2020 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

        Agreed

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

      The cost to UK industry and commerce i.e. the 97% of GDP that doesn’t trade with the EU is immense. They are the ones along with the UK taxpayer that subsidies protectionist rules and regulations.

      This week the EU announced 350 billion euro taxpayer subsidy to support CAP this is aimed at undermining world trade and forcing up food prices. It is the EU that forced the efficient UK farming to give up and have held the UK hostage on food with unrealistic protectionist attitude. The EU you could say weaponizes trade

      EU tariffs are low? The EU charges 400% more in tariffs on US imports for autos than the US charges their exports to the US. There is a similar long list, in practice it means under the EU we have paid more for nearly everything

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      EU tariffs are not zero for trade with the world’s poorest countries.

      They have a reduced rate for raw materials only. So for raw cocoa beans the rate is reduced from the already low 4%. But for finished chocolates the tariff remains at 40%. This is to protect the fat chocolatiers in Belgium and Germany.

      And then because the LDCs can’t move up the value-added chain, the EU offers them morsels of Aid, which go largely to the corrupt politicians, and come with unwanted demands to advance the EU’s social engineering agenda.

      Genuinely low tariffs for finished goods would enable entrepreneurs to flourish creating jobs and opportunities galore for the LDCs without government interference.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Ridiculous.
      We can support our farmers as much as we wish to without denying ourselves fruit etc which can easily be grown in warmer climates but is absolutely not grown here. Why on earth should be place tariffs on Spanish or Italian product which isn’t grown here? Why can’t we protect our own industries from pillage by past-subsidised EU ones? Just because they have pretended to stop state aid now doesn’t mean that massive propping-up didn’t happen in the past.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

      Tariff free trade with the EU is one way to see it however, I feel our trade with the EU was not taffif free, we just paid the tariffs upfront in the form of membership fees.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

      Let’s summarise your post: ‘it’s essential to retain zero tariffs with the EU but essential we don’t have zero tariffs with any other countries (unless the EU says we should)’.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

      Your basic argument is both contradictory and foolish.

      If “in most areas EU tariffs are already very low” how can “Brexit will bring about massive increases in tariffs because we will no longer benefit from the tariff-free trade enjoyed by EU members”?

      Make your mind up!

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

        He says there are no tariffs inside the EU. Outside it, there are tariffs. So obviously an increase. How hard is that to understand?

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

          Inside the EU there are trade barriers. Not formal of course but very real.

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

          That isn’t what he says, and I’m not the one hard of understanding….

          When he wants to claim that there is no advantage to the UK in being outside the Customs Union he argues that EU tariffs are low.

          When he wants to say how difficult trading with the EU will be in future he argues that the EU tariff barker will cause us great hardship.

          Re-read what he wrote, and critique that, instead of what you think he wrote.

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

          While we have been inside the EU there have been and are tariffs against products imported from outside the EU

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

      If EU tariffs are low, why would there be ‘massive’ increases in tariffs for our trade with the EU? I believe WTO rules prevent discriminatory tariffs unless there is a pressing national justification, and ‘punishing Britain for leaving’ doesn’t meet that criterion.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      John flatters, amplifies, and perpetuates the prejudices and misunderstandings of Tory voters where he can, I think, whatever his own factual knowledge might be.

      How would be far from the first too.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

        I’m beginning to wonder how on earth you, Andy and Newmania will be able to cope if the government does come to a trade agreement with the EU in the next couple of weeks.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:54 pm | Permalink

        For “prejudices and misunderstandings” replace with opinions that Martin disagrees with.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

        Talking of factual knowledge, Martin.

        https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13058395/dan-wootton-sweden-covid-success/

        Written by a New Zealander who thinks his own nation’s policy on CV-19 is unrealistic in the long term.

        Italy’s CV deaths up by 271%, Germany’s up by 190% and the UK’s up by 177%…

        Sweden’s down by 16% !!!!

        Why do you ignore this ???

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:06 am | Permalink

      The total cost of all the tariffs we would face from the EU is £5 billion. We currently pay £10 billion or more into the EU coffers — so we’re paying £10 billion to save £5 billion.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

        madness

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

        Don’t forget the 80% of External Tariffs that currently get handed over to the EU, some £4 Billion ish…

  4. Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    WHO says a free trade agreement with the EU is crucial, whilst doing everything in their power to stop us having free trade agreements with all those other non EU countries who would like one ? WHO? In reality no one says this. Anyone who understand this wants the UK to have a FTA with the EU and with as many other countries as we possibly can. This is because trading with no FTA (“WTO rules”) is the stone age. It’s why Australia is desperately trying to do a deal with the EU and it’s why we should do the same

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

      We seem to be doing OK trading under “stone age” rules with the rest of the world, our exports to the world exceeds our exports to the EU. I don’t see any desperation from Australia ? Enthusiasm to deal with the UK on equal terms, yes.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:08 am | Permalink

      Remainers, including Johnson, say… then make an fta unattainable so they can fall back on ‘the only alternative’ – which is REJOIN (and accept the Euro – those are the Rules).
      They seem to think we came down with the last shower of rain! Their posturing are predictable and childish, the equal of the competence of the other branches of the state ‘world beating’ 😂😂

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      In the Stone Age we did not engage in ‘world trade’. We grew our own food and made our own goods. This ‘world trade’ that everyone is obsessed about is bad for us, as a country, and bad for the environment.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

      Absolutely. This article also completely ignores the impact of non-tariff barriers that are being introduced (customs declarations etc.) which add overhead, cost and delay to trade.

      To get the best deal when negotiating, you also need to be negotiating from a position of strength, which in trade terms is size, and Brexit has diminished the UK in that respect.

      The UK already had a trade deal with Japan as part of EU membership. The much trumpeted UK-Japan deal simply replicates much of what the UK already had. Being able to sell a bit cheese to a lactose-intolerant nation and use up whatever quotas the EU member states don’t fill (which the UK had full access to as an EU member) hardly constutes a glaring success.

      One only has to look at the Department for International Trade’s Soy Sauce tweet to see just how much of an attempt to pull the wool over people’s eyes is going on. Soy Sauce from Japan is tariff free now, and what was clearly overlooked is that the largest brand of Soy Sauce in the UK is Dutch made, so in the event of a WTO exit, it will go from zero tariff to 6%.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

        Yet the balance of trade is one where the UK has an annual deficit of around 90 billion with the EU.

        You waffle about Soy sauce.
        Ridiculous

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2
          the one who has waffled for years on subjects from South Korea, Singapore, EIU to Covid timing so let us not even begin.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

            Trolling again I see bill.
            Sad.
            You can do much better than this.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

          What’s ridiculous is posting replies which bear no relevance to the comment you are replying to.

          Tariffs and non-tariff barriers will just make things more expensive for UK consumers. I don’t consider that to be a good outcome.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:19 am | Permalink

            I disagree.
            Your main example was about soy sauce and cheese sales to Japan.
            Tariffs like the 6% one you worry about are smaller than some currency movements and changes in ingredient prices on world markets.
            Filling in paperwork for EU and non EU exports has little difference in terms of time taken and complexity.
            I know having been involved in this for decades.
            And you?
            Just reading the Guardian I expect.

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

        @ PP – It appears the BBC disagrees with you and reported a couple of days ago the largest brand (“A”) at 58% of Soy Sauce is a Chinese bottled in the UK whereas your Dutch made sauce (“K”) has only 20%.

        We have tended to prefer “K” over “A” in the past but will have to rethink things, we’ll probably shift to “LKK”.

        In any event, our government should introduce any legislation necessary so that all products and services have their country of origin and where the profits go clearly labelled.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:11 am | Permalink

      ‘Desperately’ eh? You need contribute to the Daily Express. Garland. The Daily Express loves hyperbole.

  5. Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:54 am | Permalink

    The tariff debate is a sideshow.

    The real issue is will this Socialist PM who has embraced all that Marxist Labour has pushed for betray the Brexit mandate by signing a deal with the EU which inevitably will involve compromise?

    I like many others on this board have been saying that Johnson, like May, like Cameron and all the other EU adherents will sell this nation’s sovereignty down the river. It’s what Johnson does.

    To date this posturing racketeer has shown his true colours. I try to focus on what politicians NEVER SAY as opposed to what they do say. It reveals a lot about who they are and what their true intentions are.

    For example, the feminist response to Rotherham. Johnson’s appalling, snivelling response to Marxist thuggery and violence over the summer and the promotion of cultural destruction and woke fascism since then almost as if it’s all part of a grand plan. And his chilling words straight out of the progressive handbook of terms ‘there’s much more to do’. That sent a shiver down my spine

    Playing the jingoistic Churchillian hero before the GE only to revert to type after becoming PM

    I hope Johnson does betray Brexit voters. I hope Marxist Labour do get in at the next GE and finish off what the Socialist Tories have started with their woke agenda to indoctrinate and crush the spirit. Maybe then millions will wake up and realise that voting for the two main parties that died decades ago is an act of subjugation leading to subordination and ending in demonisation

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

      Fortunately everyone I knew has a more sanguine and balanced view.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

      +1
      Oh dear yes exactly. I knew he was a liberal bully but I didn’t think it would be this bad!
      Why, how did the party choose him?
      Was he really in sight right from the Gove debacle? Specially chosen to not do Brexit and to impose fascism/communism?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:44 pm | Permalink

        The Parliamentary Party was May’s Remain crown and agreed the shortlist. They members chose the best option. The Parliamentary Party needs to be stripped of the power to compile the shortlist. They have been proven to be unequal to the task repeatedly.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

      Sorry, O/T

      I watched a lecture by Lord Sumption at Cambridge university on You Tube last night. He explained how we now have an authoritarian government. He gave examples of the way the law and the police have been used in getting people to fall in line with this virus. He mentioned the twisting and exaggeration of data etc to persuade.

      He said this will continue even after the virus is gone. The next thing will be distrust among friends and neighbours. I supposed from that he meant if anyone does something that is ‘not allowed ‘, one would feel anxious in case that friend or neighbour might report you. I suspect some of us already feel a bit that way .

      He finished by saying that the vast majority of the electorate really have no idea what’s down the line. THAT sent a chill down my spine!

      How can a CONSERVATIVE government become authoritarian?

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

      +1
      yes Labour and the socialist got to trash the Tory party, by infiltration. A bit like the BBC I suppose

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        Ian@Barkham

        You see conspiracies everywhere but they are never explained

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:07 am | Permalink

      And YES I would love to hear an explanation as to why it is ok for some to riot and cause damage yet verboten for others to even protest peacefully.
      How can there be a logical explanation for that …only the totally illogical leftist argument about victimhood.
      Actually, if any more proof were needed regarding the true politics of this govt. it lies in differential policing.
      So many unanswered questions!

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

      We need the “King of Europe” more than ever. BXP will be back and winning here next time.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

      Millions have woken up. These lockdowns have seen to that. We don’t need to put ourselves through the hell of destroying both parties, we need only replace Johnson with a brilliant, lifelong Tory. We have one to hand.
      Parliament has to enact Johnson’s proposals, make sure your MP knows he is signing his own death warrant if he betrays Brexit!

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

        Indeed Lynn.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:17 am | Permalink

      Totally agree Dom. And then hopefully a true Conservative party, not one in name only, will arise from the ashes.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

        It would require a root and branch revolution. Conservatives don’t even contemplate that. Dream on.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:45 pm | Permalink

          Conservatives do dream of that, a return to the principles.

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

            Dreams are no good, show me the evidence of progress.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      Dom/Dominic/Duncan and any of your other aliases

      ” I hope Johnson does betray Brexit voters. I hope Marxist Labour do get in at the next GE….”

      Presumably you are in the sunset years of your life thus wishing to inflict such misery upon the rest of us. You should feel ashamed writing such garbage particularly as you and others like you inflicted Theresa May upon us at a previous General Election!

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      Some truth in this but I am rather more optimistic that Boris will perhaps come back to reality or be forced back to reality. He does alas (perhaps due to the greenish mother of his latest child) seem to have fallen fully for the climate alarmist, carbon neutral lunacy, expensive energy lunacy.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

        First battle EU then we must face the rest that you mention which requires removal of submission to the globalists.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:46 pm | Permalink

          +1 1 battle at a time, win it and move onto the next.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:57 pm | Permalink

        Stop deluding yourself LL.

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 2:08 am | Permalink

          Perhaps you are right – we shall see shortly.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:53 am | Permalink

      Dom, correct. A gutless individual who is easily led and is not conservative in any of his behaviour or actions whether professionally or personally.

      It is right to examine potential public leaders private lives to examine exactly what they believe in to see how this would translate to policy. Johnson would fail in every regard. Hence why Fake Tories have introduced central selection taking it away from local associations. Self declared Heir to Blair Cameron calling them ‘Turnip Taliban’ says it all. They do not even like their voters let alone trust them to select their representatives!

      It truly baffles me why the conservative public vote for them. People on this site express dismay but keep voting for them! Ten years! Tell me what has changed from Blair’s years? This lot have continued to promote and implement Labour policy and allow Labour to infest and flourish all quangos and public sector bodies! Tory govt. Even appointing former Labour ministers before former conservative ministers!

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 4:35 pm | Permalink

        Where has there been an effective viable alternative?

        You whine about Boris but your champion fled the field and no alternative was offered.

        So all you do is insulting Boris, our host and the voters? Very clever, bound to attract voters to your cause.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:40 am | Permalink

      There never was any need to get any permission from the EU to Leave. As said ad nauseam the A50 letter should have been sent 24/6/16 with the offer of a FTA but no alimony, no Irish border, no fishing deal, no ECJ, no state aid controls etc.

      The three Conservative Governments have failed criminally to implement the will of the people.

      Some level of sell out is inevitable and always was.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:29 pm | Permalink

        Very True

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:23 pm | Permalink

        Indeed. Cameron promisted to stay one and to serve the notice the next day. Instead he pathetically abandonned ship like a spoiled child.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

      The tariff debate is a sideshow.

      Correct while it will do the most immediate visible damage it is of small importance compared to the huge costs of Non Tariff Barriers . John Redwood does not understand Passporting security because its complicated .

      Stick to fish. .”Pull out of water and sell ” its about 0.1% of the eco0nomny but lets talk fish fish fish

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

        “The EU passporting system for banks and financial services companies enables firms that are authorised in any EU or EEA state to trade freely in any other with minimal additional authorisation” .. nothing complicated, except the word “minimal”. I.e. even in the EU there remains bureaucracy in financial services. But plenty of non EU nations have very dynamic services industry that surpasses that of the EU, particularly after we have finally left, and does very well globally thank you.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

        Trade will carry on.
        Profits are being made.
        People buy off the internet from all over the world.
        If the EU bureaucrats try to stop EU v UK trade they will impoverish many millions of EU citizens.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

          They are impoverishing the EU daily. Whether there is trade with the EU is in the hands of the customers. We may take unilateral action. Everything you buy from the EU is available from elsewhere, often better and cheaper.

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

            Every remainer on here never considers the next move.
            If the products from the EU become too expensive then consumers will buy products from the rest of the world or home companies will quickly move to provide products to their customers.

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

            Lynn ATkinson

            this is why we buy so many Germn cars, Danish butter and bacon and Dutch flowers . Gerat argument

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

            Because they are products the people in the UK like and choose to buy.
            Let us hope the EU bureaucrats will not try to stop that freedom of choice.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Why would the Eu wish to do this any way?

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

            I really hope they will not try to stand in the way of free trade between the people of Europe and the people of the UK.

            But many announcements from the high command in the EU over the last few years makes me feel the desire to stop any other nations leaving creates a wish to play up and be difficult towards free trade.
            I think this will fail as a policy because it will be resisted by EU member nations businesses.

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

            Bull a lot of what we buy from the EU is due to quotas that don’t allow us to supply our own market. We bred the low fat pigs that the Danes farm in a manner I dislike to provide the British demand for Bacon. As you should know our farmers pour the best milk in the world down the drain because they are ‘over quota’, and as for flowers, phah!

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

        Which is 0.75% bigger than the death rate of the virus you are so petrified of and want to lock down and destroy the economy for.

        Get out and face it like a man, like I am.

        Your country needs you.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

      Nothing short of all-out war with the civilised world will satisfy you.

      You will simply have to remain the angry, bitter, confused person that your posts strongly suggest you to be.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

        unlike you Mr Positive!

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

        Oh the civilized world ! You think we want to fight Trump? I thought that was your agenda.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

        I’m presuming you are referencing Andy in you little rant martin

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:03 pm | Permalink

        Rubbish.

        He has a right to be angry. We may as well have voted Labour.

        The one thing good about this situation is that the Tories have been shown up for what they are and are holding the turd parcel they made when the music stopped.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

      Indeed. What are we not allowed to talk about and whom may we not criticise upon pain of imprisonment?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

        You are perfectly free to express the opinion, that say, Islam, if followed literally, apparently requires its faithful to conduct themselves in a manner which is not compatible with their integration into secular, rule-of-law societies.

        What you are not allowed to do – quite rightly – is to incite crimes against them or against anyone else, or any other offences.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

          Wrong.
          A hate crime us defined as something that another person finds insulting.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

            You confuse the police’s wrongly acting as if that were the law with what the law actually is.

            You are misled and incorrect, just as intended.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:22 am | Permalink

            Totally wrong.
            Read the definition of a hate crime.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 11:11 am | Permalink

            To inform you, for there to be a Hate Crime, first of all there has to be a crime, such as an assault.

            If it can then be shown that the motive was partly or wholly because of the victim’s race, religion, etc., then that is an Aggravating Factor, and turns the offence into a Hate Crime, which attracts a more severe sentence.

            Please try to learn this.

            Employers sacking people, for completely legal use of Free Speech, is a completely different matter.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 2:16 pm | Permalink

            Wrong
            Have another go.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

            Before you get it wrong again Martin have a quick look on the internet at hate crime definitions.
            The easy to read article on Wikipedia is a good start for you.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

      You are right, Dom. However, we have a chance, and that will come if P Trump wins the US election. Choices will be presented in very stark terms and Johnson has to decide/reveal exactly what side he is on: the globalists or a free sovereign UK.

      I believe that they (Downing Street et al) are relying on, and fervently wishing for, a Biden win. It would allow them to relax back into globalist/one world government mode again.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:51 pm | Permalink

        Downing Street seem happy for infinite delay.

        So a clean Brexit would seem highly unlikely.

        Probably working on their PR spin for a ‘victory’. This will not hold water for very long and Johnson knows it. So maybe another Covid headline stealer is on the cards.

        Johnson might also be looking for a lucrative alternative career. There have been hatchet jobs recently in the press, though rivals will be happy for him to stay in post for a good while yet to absorb all of the blame. Rishi might be lined up as the next media hero for the role – whenever it arises. Not that I would vote for him. Others who lent votes to Boris might not lend votes again.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

          Indeed ‘will not’!

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

      They will go happily into their subjugation whilst the brass band plays. Look at how people are behaving over a virus ?!?!

      Alas I do not hold out much hope.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

        Quite right. But are you still wanting to involve these same people in decsions regarding how you live your life? I’d rather make my own decisions than dance to someone else’s tune 😉

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

          You might find that you are in the majority!

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

            Even if my view on what ought to be done was shared by a majority I’d be dismayed if this view was then imposed on the minority. And I would be no happier if I was allowed to pursue my preferred course only because a majority said so.

  6. Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

    I agree with all your conclusions…but…

    1. We often read your thoughts on tariffs but rarely on non-tariff barriers. The latter are thought to be more challenging and expensive to deal with. At the least, UK businesses will face more expenses in meeting these barriers potentially making them uncompetitive with EU businesses. How will UK businesses continue to compete in the EU?

    2. Don’t the remain side have some important points on tariffs? Our existing economy is structured around free trade with the EU. Less free trade with the EU will create losers even if there are winners elsewhere. Plus the losers are created now and the winners, dependent on free(er) trade with other nations, will only come over time. Is all the churn worth it? Will there be a net benefit? How can you be sure?

    I voted Leave and am proud to have done so. These aren’t attacks – I want to understand why you’re so confident about our prospects in light of these arguments.

    Anthony

  7. Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:37 am | Permalink

    Really..it seems so surreal discussing Brexit when we have just been taken prisoner!
    Utter despair.
    France under “indefinite lockdown”.
    Do we really believe that Johnson won’t follow?

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

      Johnson might follow but not many of us will. Went shopping today maskless. No problem. Entertained my brother-in-law for lunch at the kitchen table. No problem, no risk. Let Johnson go into isolation by all means! Sooner the better.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

        + 1

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:53 pm | Permalink

        You rebel you!
        Brainwashing slipping a tad?
        Lie down in a darkened room for a few hours repeating “ Hands, Face, Space” x 100.
        That should fix the problem.

        But flippancy rather denies the reality and dire seriousness of our situation.
        Think about it!
        You are cock a hoop because you went shopping without a mask!!!
        Your brother ate at your table!!!
        You were breaking the law.
        BREAKING THE LAW. And our representatives in government sit around in total compliance.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:19 pm | Permalink

      That’s right, and then postpone proper Brexit pending further ‘negotiations’.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

        Yes do that if you want civil war! You know the British are like the Zulus. Mild and softly spoken. Once they start fighting, as you may remember, it’s not over until we win!

  8. Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Exactly right. Anyway if a business cannot export to the EU competitively they will work round it in other ways. Perhaps they will just redirect their workforce to manufaction for another area, or switch to differnet products or to suppling home demand. Or they will work with a partner within the EU and do it jointly in some way.

    Businesses are very used to working round idiotic and damaging government red tape, OTT taxation and restrictions it is everywhere – both homegrown and EU versions.

  9. Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:43 am | Permalink

    From what I can see (probably not much), one of the biggest impediments to free trade is one’s own government.

    Tax (often described as excise) is applied at punishing rates to many fuels and products of all sorts of description, and many are fundamental to any associated market.

    This also applies to government supplied services, like just about anything to do with health care, along with anything to do with the supply of utilities or the nature of how those utilities are produced.

    And then there is VAT…

  10. Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Trade requires balance and reciprocation by both sides, so that both sides benefit. Protection/tariffs are only required when it gets out of balance. I feel very positive as to the opportunities for the UK after January 2021.

  11. Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:56 am | Permalink

    Good morning Sir John

    Another good insight on reality.

    Real free trade is non-existent even in the EU, instead of tariffs they impose whole scale meaningless rules and regulations on whole nations, not just the entities that trade across borders. These are the Politicos way of restricting access to their market

    I like the irony, on the one hand the EU preaches level playing fields, while this week the approve 350 billion euros in taxpayer subsidies for their farming communities (CAP)

    I do hope the government sees that any laws, rules, regulations pertaining to the UK trading with the EU can only be introduced, maintained, amended and repealed by the UK Parliament. There is no possible reason why an external source should have any say on the UK’s internal workings. Those trading with the EU of course play by EU rules on the goods and services entering the EU – some 7% of UK GDP. The same in reverse those from the EU play by the UK’s rules

  12. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

    Double speak and double itony.

    Tariff-free trade but only between select members.
    Equality and diversity but only if you’re within the EU fortress.
    Save the NHS but for what?
    Test and trace but tests are often false and tracing doesn’t work.
    Build back better but we don’t need more houses if past immigration targets had been met.

    It’s all basically lies and people are sick of it.

  13. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    Meanwhile very good news.

    We see that new positive tests in the last 7 days were only 14% up on the week before which was 22% up on the week before that and 39% on the week before that. The rate of increase is slowing very nicely indeed (as I expected as more areas get closer to herd immunity levels).

    There really is no second wave at all – just ripples from the first wave going through areas that had largely avoided the infection earlier.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

      Next week will probably show little or no increases in new infections and the Covid death figures will likely follow this with a couple of weeks delay.

      Covid deaths still a rather small minority of total daily deaths 10% or so and even these are probably exaggerated by false positive tests. If you have 500,000 test a day you might well have 10,000 or more false positive a day. Many of these false positives might well be people admitted to hospital with other serious conditions who then get counted as covid deaths.

      Would be good if the government gave us the real false positive figure that seems to be a state secret.

      Contrary to the doom and gloom from Imperial and the Government we are nearing the end of Covid being a serious problem.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:34 am | Permalink

        Wrongly counted as Covid deaths that is.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

      Lifelogic,

      You may well be right. The point estimated R rate in the REACT1 study in the NE is below 1. The R value in NW and Y&H have edged up, but with infection rate currently 2-3% might well turn soon. (The interval estimates are ridiculously wide).

      We’d be in a better position though with sustainable behaviour patterns but Hancock, Sunak and the advisers prefer the artificial mixing of stop and start.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

      And the test is inaccurate anyway. 58 out of 60 positives retested in Germany recently were found to be negative. The whole Covid house-of-cards rests on this test, put together over the New Year’s holiday without proper validation by one German professor whose PhD appears to have been gained in ‘unusual circumstances’. He co-authored with others the studies he submitted, so how much was his own work?

      And we’re in thrall to the ‘figures’ based on what this wretched man’s test produces.

      You couldn’t make it up!

      Sorry, correct that – they do make it up!

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      +1 As Dr Yeadon points out, areas of susceptibility were isolated and upon relaxation including large movements of assymptomatic students for example caused the slight blip. You only have to look at the curves to see this isn’t the unicorn second wave as certain factions appear to wish for. In fact it’s looking more and more like the elephant repellant.

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

        Indeed. Why are they not publishing data on the true false positive rates. What have they got to hide.

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

          Thousands of deaths and economic meltdown?

  14. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    From todays Express (I know, a bit suspect)

    “The UK and EU have also moved closer to deciding essential aspects of how any accord will be enforced”

    WILL BE ENFORCED – they still don’t get it. Democracy doesn’t work that way, mutual respect doesn’t work that way. That is EU code for obey, do as we dictate and never forget who is in control

  15. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:49 am | Permalink

    Sir JR,

    Interesting and exciting perspectives that does open up for discussion and dialogue on a number of issues about free trade and tariffs.

    The EU single market still has a long way to to t be an ideal open and free market, I think wecan all agree on that having worked in the market for years.

    However according to Businesseurope, the single market has created 2% more growth in GDP in Europe, 3 million more jobs and the amount of companies trading with one another has grown from 12 to 21 million acorss the EU. And it has doubled trade since 1992, so there are some questions to be asked about your analyses.
    On the demise of the UK car indsutry in the 1970’s due to French and German cars, I would claim we were very good at working on that demise ourselves due to badly produced cars, strikes and bad management.
    So, a number of reservations on the stated conclusions in your brief.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

      But is only a free market for those inside its borders.
      And that is its weakness.

      It is a rules based, tariff based protectionist bloc.
      And that only results in the reduction of standards of living for its
      citizens long term.

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:40 am | Permalink

        Edward 2

        I never said I disagreed on the points raised by you

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

          I never said you did.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

      We have been involved in ‘ discussion and dialogue‘ with you lot for 47 years.
      Enough. Go to hell in your own handcart. We have baled out!
      Good luck with you new Debt Union with the launch of your first ‘social bond’. You will really need it! Mutti is being heckled in the Bundestag.

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:41 am | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        Your continued assumption I am German and comments in Germany makes you look really not only out of order but it underlines the quality of your arguments

  16. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

    copied from yesterdays subject.
    Owners, managers of businesses, buyers of goods both finished and components constantly are tasked to use ever-cheaper in the quest for consumer success.
    Nobody seems to examine where this leads. Inevitably in the Global market that view takes us to the cheapest (only in theory will it be the most efficient) location to assemble or manufacture. Over slightly longer term they become locked in to the decisions made, and choice disappears with dependancy now certain and discovery that there is a financial gun to the head.
    Slogans like Buy British were well intentioned and the EU has taken the concept to be incredibly protectionist and restrictive.
    China has enjoyed supplying the sleeping world, while Trump being a businessman not a politician, has done his best to wake the USA up.
    All of us must.

  17. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    I think after four years the country is sick to death of this deadline after deadline, threat after threat. Businesses not knowing which way to turn after four long years, involving serious treacherous anti democratic behaviour by our parliamentarians.

    Sir John is anybody able to confirm we will be a sovereign nation on the 1st Jan. What I believe we voted for. Not answerable to the ECJ or level playing field. Or are we just going to cave in. If we do it will be the ultimate betrayal.

  18. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    It is surely a waste of time trying to argue these details with remoaners … They go along with that phrase: “Never mind the quality, feel the width” when it comes to the EU.

    Look at how the EU trade with African nation, how they take advantage… Trade is just another element that the EU use to twist things in their favour.

    I fear that if Boris accepts any compromises with the EU that they will be very bad for us — Please tell him from me that we’ve had enough of EU shenanigans — He must simply walk away with no deal…. That would be the best for the UK, and would give us more flexibility afterwards.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

      I believe Johnson has been procrastinating until the US election result comes in. It will help him decide which way the wind is blowing. Nothing to do with what is good for our country, but what he can get away with, I fear.

      A President Trump win will cause him considerable grief as he will have to have a major rethink of many policies. A Biden win would mean business as usual for Johnson, proceeding full speed with the globalist agenda and, I fear, the destruction of the UK.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:06 pm | Permalink

      Bryan Harris,

      Please, do kindly quote us some facts on your theory “that would be the best for the UK”

      as niether the IMF, World Bank, OECD, EIU, CBI or Institute of Directors seem to agree with you ?

      thank you

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

        Bill likes facts.
        But never provides any of his own.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          But at least I provide real facts as suppose to you providing none or providing sheer nonsense again and again.

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

            You demand facts from others but rarely provide any yourself.
            Nonsense to you is defined as anything you disagree with.
            Not really a very good democratic position to adopt.

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          So arguing the way you do by saying that when I disagree I am not doemocratic. Come again my dar chap

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

            I didn’t say that.

            I said you dismiss as nonsense anything you disagree with.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

        BB

        Like you the organisations you mention are part of the socialist NWO and provide only innuendo, never verifiable facts – Of course they don’t like anything that would be good for the UK .. They want all decency destroyed so that the RESET can begin…

        You want facts — work it out for yourself … The EU is full of red tape drowning innovation… Britain will be free of much of that and able to get much better trading conditions than when we were in the EU with far more countries, so we can sell more of our products…

        On top of that the EU sells far more to the UK than we sell to the EU, with tariffs and the freedom to sell to other countries, the UK is due to boom, compared to the inward looking EU.
        If the EU doesn’t play ball we just hike the tariff on BMWs.

        BTW you must have missed that piece from Juncker a few years back where he admitted that the EU would be making far less of the global commodities than they are now – He predicted a very poor future for the EU economically

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

          Bryan Harris

          SO the world bank and IMF are socialist, go and look socialist up in the dictionary>

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

            Open your eyes to what is going on in the world

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

            Delve into history and look at who Trotsky’s financiers were.

  19. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:12 am | Permalink

    The one aspect of the single market which clearly worked in the UK’s favour was the passporting arrangement in financial services. Although even that wasn’t unvarnished good news as it made us subject to labyrinthian regulations like MIFID II and GDPR. But the EU has excluded financial services, so what the proposed FTA seems to do is preserve the EU’s £100bn trade surplus in goods with the UK.

    It probably would still be better to have a deal just to calm people down and move on from brexit. But if the EU makes absurd demands regarding controls over laws, taxes fishing etc, Boris should tell them to take a running jump. and come back in a few years time for a proper FTA.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

      What I mean is he should say in a very polite and friendly way “thanks but no thanks”

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

        we are about 3 years beyond being polite about it. ‘Go forth and multiply’ needs saying.

  20. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

    In what way do Remain supporters do “everything in their power to stop free trade with non EU countries”? In your list of supposed hard facts at the end, you forgot to add that leaving an almost seamless single market with no trade agreement imposes new barriers to trade which will add cost and bureaucracy for British industry

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

      No cost to British industry, much cost to EU industry, the German motor manufacturers estimate Brexit will cost them £130 billion pa. I don’t know how they reached that figure, that is what they published.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        This just shows you know nothing about quality and industry, trade nor leave the slurce of your information

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

          The ‘source’? As usual you make no sense.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:40 pm | Permalink

        Bertelmann-Stiftung quotes an annual loss of €40bn in trade for the EU27 altogether due to Brexit.

        The Daily Express on 17/09/20 ‘They finally GET it!’ quotes a decrease in German exports to the UK from £81.5bn in 2015 down to £72.3bn in 2019, which looks to me as an annual drop of £9.2bn, possibly every year since the referendum vote.

        On the freenations website on 23/01/2018 Prof Patrick Minford was declaring a £651bn gain for the UK and a £507bn loss for the EU linked to Brexit, but with no mention of the timescale considered (allowing basically to say anything with little chance of being contradicted) and based on … some modelling.

        And I guess that must be the basis for Lynn’s comment … with a multiplying factor of 14 added … for theatrical effect?

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

          Lynn was quoting a report from the German motor manufacturers industry.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 1:38 pm | Permalink

            Which the Express was quoting too in terms of TOTAL exports, which to me includes car exports.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

            Huge sum
            Huge loss to Germany none the less.

  21. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

    Only those who have mastered a subject can explain complexity in simple terms. There was a time when MPs we not allowed to read their speeches, thus ensuring they had mastered the argument. Few achieve that now and if ‘Reading’ was shouted, there would be hardly any speeches on the floor of the House.
    JR is a master, in particular, of political economy and economics. Every word of this post screams so. This is a major consideration when one is think of the requirements needed to be First Lord of the Treasury. Boris, an economic illiterate, demonstrates the danger daily.
    No doubt many will still not understand. But then not all have the wherewithal.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

      A master of Bristish economics but not European economics I am afraid

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

        Economics is a social science which applies world wide.
        Even the EU is not exempt.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

        Ah you mean Corporatism! Yes we all have the hang of that, we reject it as we always reject every aspect of fascism.

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:35 am | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          YOu are assuming I am German which I am not so just the idea you will not forgive is total nonsense, what does it have to di with me as a Brit?

  22. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    The constant obsession with trade and tariffs baffles me.

    Surely it would be better if:

    we grew all our own food, importing only that which won’t grow here

    we created our own energy

    we made our own goods, importing only raw materials we don’t have

    Why don’t you focus on this instead of tariffs? Have you learnt nothing? Outsourcing manufacturing has led to a low paid service economy with people on zero hours contracts delivering food on bikes. Do you want our farmers to go broke the same as countless factories have over the last 50 years.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

      Tariffs = Tax = Government Revenue

      Its all about collecting that piece of silver

  23. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

    “to be followed by price hikes once the domestic industry has been demolished”

    The classic business example often quoted is Sony. It was a ‘budget’ TV brand in the US until American producer RCA withdrew from the TV business – and then it became a premium one. ‘Made in Japan’ was not a sign of good quality at one time but then they overtook the local competition and wiped them out. Cars, motorbikes, electronics.

    China is doing the same thing and cheap goods, made by low paid workers has helped keep inflation low. But low-paid workers start to want a better life too – and then prices increase. Let’s hope we can afford the things we need when that happens.

  24. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

    London Ambulance Service been tweeting about the significant increase is suicides.

    If nothing else tells you about the failure of the Covid response by the state, then that should be it.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:31 pm | Permalink

      And the fact that London Ambulance drivers wear very basic face masks and nothing else that they weren’t before.

      In a real pandemic they’d be going around in hazmat suits.

  25. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Interesting article in the Daily Mail today. It claims that Germany, which invited the Third World migrants into Europe, is now adopting a robust policy of deportation, expelling anyone who isn’t a genuine refugee. Apparently there are night-time raids and migrants disappear onto deportation flights, drugged if necessary. There must be no lawyers in Germany. The migrants are responding by heading for the Channel coast, where getting a boat to soft-touch Britain is ‘like buying a bus ticket’. As things kick off in France I can see things going the same way there. Our Government’s aim of population replacement could be achieved sooner than they think.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:22 pm | Permalink

      How does Germany know always where to send them and do those countries accept them?

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

      Just what is wrong with the EU that people risk life and limb to try to escape it ?

  26. Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    UK industry lost out badly when we went to zero tariffs against German and other continental steel, car and and textile manufacturers in the 1970s.

    No it did not . The UK had been growing and levels below our partners prior to our joining and subsequently outperformed them. If John Redwood feels that forcing us all to buy awful
    expensive British Leyland cars forever was a recipe for prosperity he is out on his own as usual.

    Reply More lies. Our car output halved in our first ten years in the EEC

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

      Rightly so, as well !

      I worked in Germany 1980-1985 and bought a new Mercedes W123 estate car in Astro Silver. The paintwork was flawless – like a mirror.

      On coming home for Christmas, I went to the Maidenhead Jaguar dealer with the idea of buying an XJ6. They had one in the garage and I said to the salesman that I would come back after they had prepared it for sale by removing the wax coating on the paintwork. He responded telling me that this was the final finish and the wax had already been removed.

      Needless to say, I took him outside and showed him the Mercedes. I said I would buy a Jaguar when they could sell me a car of the same quality.

      True to my word, when I returned to the UK, in 1986, I bought a new XK40 which was delivered in the week the car was launch. By then Sir John Egan had sorted Jaguar and that car was brilliant. Nobody with any common sense would have bought any new British car in the 1970s other than a Rolls Royce.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

        I would walk rather than own a German car.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:23 pm | Permalink

          Just as well. Thanks to Brexit you’ll probably have to.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          You really need to learn to live with reality and not you fictitious world

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

            Deciding to buy a car isn’t a fictitious world bill.
            Just a decision by a consumer.

            If the EU refuses to supply or they become too expensive consumers will choose from the many alternatives available in the UK and the rest of the world

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

            Bull that is reality! I have never owned a German car and never will. You have caused 3 generations of my family a lot of bother. I don’t forgive you, especially as you are unrepentant.

          • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

            Don’t you mean Andy?

            Zorro

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:36 pm | Permalink

      Our car output halved because our cars were crap compared to VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes and, increasingly, Datsun and Toyota.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 4:39 pm | Permalink

      That’s because our cars were rubbish and buyers preferred to buy cars that not only looked good but were properly engineered. To prove it – I once owned a Sunbeam Alpine! Steering it was like manoevering the QE2 into harbour. And you always hoped you wouldn’t have to break hard.

      And as for accusing others of telling lies……………………

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

        You could gave ordered it with power steering.
        And with servo brakes.
        Mind you are going back to the late 60s.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

        MH

        “I once owned a Sunbeam Alpine! Steering it was like manoevering the QE2 into harbour.”

        Did you check your front tyre pressures ?

        Your analysis cannot be referenced against cars of EU manufacture….some of them were bloody awful and still are.

        The buying trend you imply was actually favourable to Japanese manufactured cars, notably the Datsun Cherry.

        Not that there was anything fundamentally wrong with British cars – just that Japanese cars went longer between service and didn’t require as much maintenance. But then I admit I always had Jaguars.

        There is also the fact that when you bought a Japanese car everything on the vehicle worked. My ex bought an Austin Metro once…much of the electrical features didn’t work, and to have everything working you had to go up to the Vanden Plas model. I figured out BL were charging about £1,000 per six feet of wire on each model of the range.

        She soon got rid and bought a Nissan Micra…..same money but everything included in the price.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 4:41 pm | Permalink

      You did not specify cars you said industry -UK growth out performed our neighbours after joining. The car industry as it was could not be saved

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

        Rover was succeeding their series 2 were selling like hot cakes, businesses were buying them in preference to Ford and Vauxhall for business use, we should never have allowed BMW to buy them up and effectively close them down or our Mini production that was also on the up. The UK are just too open and even handed, we treat other people in the spirit of the agreements but all too often the Countries we deal with look for ways to work around, where as we adhere and take agreements much further than we need to.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:48 pm | Permalink

      Look at the production figures instead of your prejudices.

      zorro

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:58 pm | Permalink

        Sir John,

        Last night I listened to an interview on YouTube with Douglas Murray. One comment he made was regarding criticism. He described a critic who offers opinion with a view to improvement wishing for you to succeed, the other critic hopes for you to fail. I and my family have never been Tories, however I value your judgement and wish you well. There are sadly 2 or 3 on here who definitely do not and fall into the second category, adding nothing to the discussion. Although allowed to repeat the same lengthy diatribes. Another point Douglas makes of certain US and UK commentators is that if you fail to see any redeeming features in your country and it’s history you are in fact an enemy (not verbatim, the gist).

        Regards

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

      My personal experience of British Leyland was that the Unions thought they could get away with murder (and often did) and Management was incapable of managing the many problems – a good many of which they created themselves.

      For those old enough to remember, the Germans called it “English Disease”.

      It took Nissan to demonstrate that we could actually make good cars in this country again – given the right leadership.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

        Marxist led unions wanted to undermine British Industry, whilst pretending to support workers demands they made their industry uncompetitive and so had to make cars cheaper and forgo quality, end results being the demise of the company and loss of many jobs. The union leaders achieved what they wanted.
        Nissan started from a clean sheet – no historical agreements with embedded over-manning and archaic working practices.
        We still have extremist organisations such as XR with similar aims if different tactics.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

        Ian T

        “It took Nissan to demonstrate that we could actually make good cars in this country again – given the right leadership.”

        Bluebird……damn good cars they were.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

        and workers who wanted to work.

  27. Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

    The only proviso is we need to impose the same tariff on all WTO members, unless they have a Free Trade Agreement with us. In the case of food it means we can lower tariffs on non EU countries whilst imposing some tariff on EU food

    The EU is a WTO member so we cannot lower any tariff preferentially to anyone without also lowering it to the EU . We can enter into negotiations to create Bi Lateral trade deals but it will be a very long time before we have replaced all the existing EU trade deals that we have lost. Thus far we have succeeded in begging Japan to give us the same terms we had anyway and we are all supposed to applaud .

    Soy sauce costs the same as it it did yesterday ..put out the bunting !

    Reply We lower our food tariffs but levy them on the EU. Do try and follow the argument.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 4:22 pm | Permalink

      I do follow the argument. So when are you going to break it to our farmers that they’re going to get slaughtered by cheap as chips imports once tariffs are cut?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

        Might they just compete?

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:47 pm | Permalink

      Are you and Andy the same person? You both seem not to understand how trade works? We will only put tariffs for EVERY nation and be equal in how we treat people. Why would we put high tariffs on things we need but don’t produce?

      zorro

  28. Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    Good points John and more ammo to use against Remainers.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

      To achieve what?

      The UK has left.

      Do keep up.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

        Why are we still paying then?
        And forced to follow their laws?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

        Left – but then you keep banging on about it! Do button it!

  29. Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

    The European Commission (EC) does not want an FTA with the UK because :

    1) The UK must be seen to have been punished for holding and then implementing a vote on EU membership.

    2) The EC continues to be told by the UK’s EU supporters that if they continue a hard punishment policy with the UK then it gives them (the UK’s EU supporting establishment elites) the excuse they’re looking for to initiate a coup and overturn the democratic decision made by the referendum and 2 GEs.

    3) The EC benefits financially because they receive directly 80% of import duties and they need this money to make up for the UK taxpayers’ contributions to their budget which has now been lost as a result of Brexit.

  30. Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:44 am | Permalink

    The lax and generous way the West has treated trade with China has been nothing short of a disgrace. They have been allowed to destroy Western industries while maintaining a closed economy for most of the time for Western goods.

    At last we have seen an Americal President make an effort to tackle this problem yet all he has faced is hostility from his critics at home and in Europe for doing so.

    The Western democracies need to take a very firm attitude to China, not least on its military activities in the South China Sea and its attempts at bullying the surrounding Countries. Nobody, it seems, drew the necessary lessons for China’s treatment of Tibet and the way they are treating the Uighurs in recent years is just as much of a disgrace.

    The attitude of politicians in China towards climate change is entirely cynical, yet left-leaning activists seem to focus on their production of solar panels, which makes the Chineses money, while ignoring the huge annual increase in coal-fired power stations.

  31. Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    So let us once and for all get rid of the silly lies put around about trade

    The silly idea that when your commodities face tariffs so the price is higher then you sell, less ?John I`m sure I remember covering supply demand and pricing when I was about 13 years old – did you miss the lesson ?

    Reply You sell more at home

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:28 pm | Permalink

      You sell to whoever will pay highest, including foreigners.

  32. Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:21 am | Permalink

    There is a key error in your post Mr Redwood.

    You say: “In the case of food it means we can lower tariffs on non EU countries whilst imposing some tariff on EU food.”

    This is not true.

    The UK is seeking a tariff and quota free trade deal with the EU. If we get one there will be no tariffs on EU food imports. If we do not get one we will be trading with the EU on WTO terms – in which case tariffs we impose on EU food will have to be imposed on every other country with whom we do not have a trade deal. We cannot treat the EU differently to everyone else. That is WTO rules.

    So it is a nonsense to say we can lower tariffs for some countries but raise them for the EU. We lower them for everyone or no one.

    This is one of the reasons why your Brexit will go wrong.

    ReplyTry Reading what I write. If we go to WTO rules I propose lowering our tariffs on food, which would also then be levied on EUropean food as well so EU tariffs go up from the current zero. Do try anD follow what I say before rushing out your angry and often foolish rebuttals.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

      Andy you spend everyday attacking Sir John Redwood without respite like a stalker!
      You really should not abuse the privilege to exercise your quota of free speech unless you are incapable of understanding the simple principle of taking a hint which you never do sadly….

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

      Words of one syllable are needed for some people.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:44 pm | Permalink

      You really don’t get it, do you Andy?

      zorro

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

      Dear Mr. Redwood,

      Dear @Andy,

      Do you know what the tariff will be on Humble Pie?

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      “We cannot treat the EU differently to everyone else.”

      Sure we can…….just don’t trade with the EU, period.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

        Enacted in our household already on a unanimous vote.

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

        Steve

        wake up to reality of teh real world

  33. Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:24 am | Permalink

    There are maddening speeches being made in the House of Lords demanding we don’t even have free trade within our own country. It seems to me they are contriving a way of getting us back into the EU through the back door by breaking us up into lots of little left wing remainiac regions, lots of little SNPlands.

  34. Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:37 am | Permalink

    Its all academic the UK/EU deal has been finalised, just awaiting announcement mid November – the best deal under the circumstances, the best deal for both sides, the best deal which satisfies the leave referendum etc etc

    The conservatives are lost

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

      Never surrender. It’s not over until we win!

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

        Lyn Atkinson

        more nonsense this is not about winning but about getting teh best on both sides
        withour your negative German bias

  35. Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:40 am | Permalink

    China has maintained its developing nation status under WTO and thus benefits from asymmetric tariffs and special status. China is the second largest economy in the world!?

    Why has the WTO and the UK allowed this to continue? This is making China tens of billions.

    There is a strong whiff of something going on here, and free trade it is not.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

      It had taken Trump to put a spanner in the China racket.

  36. Posted October 29, 2020 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

    EU has not helped our engineering or manufacturing industries either

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

      Not true, most of those old engineering/manufacturing sites are now apartments or call centres…..god bless the EU

  37. Posted October 29, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    The main problem with this whole argument is that it is based on the mistaken premise that tariffs are the biggest barrier to trade – and, in fact, they are not.

    Non-tariff barriers are far more disruptive and it is these which the EU has all but eliminated for goods.

    A child’s toy made in the UK is made to the same rules and standards as a child’s toy in France and Slovakia and Finland. This enables it to be sold everywhere in the single market not only tariff but non-tariff barrier free. The same applies to just about every product.

    And it is these standardised product rules – which Brexiteer’s loathe – which facilitate the free and frictionless trade they falsely claim to love.

    So we are left in a situation where we are are spending billions on lorry parks and tens of thousands of pen pushers to process hundreds of millions of forms we did not use to need. Even as newspapers print aerial pictures of your Brexit lorry parks being built some of you will deny they exist. Even as ministers say there will be lots of extra paperwork some of you pretend it is not happening.

    In 2016 you sold Brexit on the basis that trade would continue unimpeded and that you would cut red tape. And here you are embarking on the greatest expansion of bureaucracy we have ever seen. And, worst of all, you all continue to deny it.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:40 pm | Permalink

      Andy

      “In 2016 you sold Brexit on the basis that trade would continue unimpeded”

      Not so. Brexit was sold on the basis of leaving the ungrateful EU and becoming entirely free of it’s institutions.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

        It was sold rather more on lots of nostalgia about Britain in the 1950s, and somehow smuggled the notion into minds that time could be reversed.

        Plenty of Leave voters seemed to think that a win would mean that the European Union itself would disappear, and that they would go back to using francs, lire, and pesetas on holiday.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

          Complete nonsense.
          You live in a fantasy world.

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

          No, Martin that’s what remainers said leavers want.

          Leavers actually wanted the country to be in charge of itself, not be told what or how to do things by a foreign power!

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

          I’ve often heard the people over there say they wish for marks, francs, lira (they thought lire were fraudulent), pesetas and drachma. Strangely Nicola wants to use sterling after they leave us!

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

          Rubbish

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 6:36 am | Permalink

          My first foreign holiday was to San Sebastian in the Sixties. That was before we joined the EU. I can just about remember a trouble-free transit across the borders of France and Spain.

  38. Posted October 29, 2020 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Javelin – exactly.

  39. Posted October 29, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    BBC news at 1pm today – order of headlines
    1st Covid-19 and the number of people catching it
    2nd The EHRC report into the Labour Party
    3rd Women gets head chopped off in ‘’alleged’’ Islamic attack in France

    Islamic terror attack is only the 3rd story – something is really wrong at the BBC

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

      I’m staggered that they:
      1 Reported it at all
      2 called it an Islamic attack
      3 reported any news from a France, which is suffering a not-so-low-level war.

      Maybe the Defunding is working?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        you are once again showing your total ignorance so what is new?

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

          You mean you can’t respond to the facts. The terrible violence in France, Sweden is NEVER reported in the U.K. Why?

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            he terrible violence we had in NI for years, these are historically circumstances

        • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

          I think Lynn speaks well and with good analysis.
          Isn’t democracy and the many different opinions a good thing.
          Eh bill?

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 7:31 am | Permalink

            Edward 2

            we obviously disagree so much for that one

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      LBC the same.

      A woman of 70 is beheaded in the Basilica of Notre Dame in Nice, by the font, the Sacristan is also killed, and a second woman dies of her wounds later. Then there is another attack in Avignon, and a third in Saudi Arabia on a guard outside the French Embassy. A whole lot more attacks in France were foiled.

      La Fogarty doesn’t draw breath from her love affair with the Labour Party, shows no interest in France, despite being obsessed with America and getting rid of the President.

      If you want to know what is going on you have to go to RT.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

      Well, you have three pretty shocking pieces of news, and they all get prominence.

      100,000 new UK cases of covid 19 in a single day – the whole US only got 70,000 – is rather momentous and of immediate concern.

      A candidate for UK PM a few months ago is suspended for claimed anti-semitism – that’s hardly trivial.

      Then the horrifying news from another country.

      UK news normally comes ahead of that from abroad in the billing anyway, so I think that in this case the BBC didn’t do anything too outrageous.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:37 pm | Permalink

      Yes – when you give up paying for the TV channel you then start to question their radio news, even though you don’t have to pay for that.

      I can only listen to parts of it. I usually switch off when they get onto their hobby horse topic for the day.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 3:43 pm | Permalink

      Indeed BBC priorities and the selective way they report things is absurd. They endless woke drivel they come out with, the climate alarmist drivel, the way they support covid alarmism without any questioning the anti-Trump agenda. The lack of coverage of the Great Barrington Declaration scientists.

      Above all the way the BBC side of the argument gets a “what would you like to say next” interview (after a glowing introduction) and the other side (usually the right one – if given any airtime at all) is constantly interupted and cross question usuall by some BBC art grad dope with little or no understanting of the subject at all.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

      It just says “stabbed” on BBC news.

  40. Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:11 pm | Permalink

    I agree with 3rd paragraph. I think almost everyone has heard of comparative advantage (and presumes scarcity exists) and so thinks in that way. The majority of trade is not explained by comparative advantage, much is choice under monopolistic competition (which has plenty of negative extetnalities), another reason is scale economies and thus inevitably monopoly power.

    There is also the behaviour of importing emission.

  41. Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

    With the silence surrounding the brexit talks at the moment one can only presume that the negotiators are about to enter the tunnel, if they have not already done so, and if this is the case then there is going to be give and take on both sides but from our side probably more give than take- also I can see now why our host is preparing the ground by raising the tariffs issue at this time- suffice to say it’s all in the tunnel now with the God’s, between there and the HoL where 6 articles of the internal markets bill is threatened- ah yes that and Boris and then the outcome of the US elections- a right old mix. My guess It’ll be mid Nov before all of this plays out- then we’ll know the truth about tariffs.

  42. Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    October 2020: French teacher Samuel Paty is beheaded Paris
    September 2020: Two people are stabbed and seriously hurt in Paris
    July 2016: A priest killed, and another hostage seriously wound northern France
    July 2016: 86 people killed by lorry driving into a crowd celebrating Bastille Day
    November 2015: 130 people dead as suicide bombers launch multiple in Paris
    January 2015: 12 people shoot dead at Charlie Hebdo’s offices Paris

    And we have, this past year, encouraged and allow est 8,000+ illegal migrants to cross the channel from France

    The enemy is in plain sight in the shadows – someone needs to tell the Home Office

  43. Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

    What is interesting is that we have delegated negotiation of our trade deals to the EU for so long that many Remainers have no idea how tariffs work – I have lost count of the number I have seen on social media who think the EU can impose tariffs on food that the UK imports from the EU. And they say Brexiters are the stupid ones !

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

      Remainers are also convinced that we will blockade our own ports!

  44. Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

    Good piece, one factor you didn’t mention (or perhaps only by oblique reference to China) is that disparity in economic performance is a key factor in “protectionist” tariffs.

    When we opened up our markets to China and other countries with low labour costs (i.e. low wages for the workers) we effectively undercut all of the British work force. The only jobs that survive for UK workers are those in small businesses who cannot offshore their functions – or jobs with a skill level so high or so much in demand that other countries’ workers cannot satisfy the demand in the UK.

    Even then, an influx of EU workers under FoM allowed businesses small and large to be able to exploit cheap foreign labour.

    And when you add to that the antiquated tax on jobs, Employers NI, which only the UK is daft enough to impose, we have a perfect storm for less-skilled jobs in the UK. If it was already cheaper to offshore a call centre to (say) India to pay workers at Indian rates of pay, then it is certainly cheaper when you no longer have to pay 14% of salary as would be needed to employ a British-based worker. Employers NI is at the root of so many evils in this country.

    • Posted October 30, 2020 at 3:28 am | Permalink

      XYXY

      Factually correct. +1

      Though I would like there to be laws making it a criminal offence to offshore any British job. Prison sentence and re-administration of assets should suffice.

  45. Posted October 29, 2020 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

    Sever all contact with the corrupt EU first. NO deals. Then we negotiate on OUR terms.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

      Paul Cuthbertson

      +1

      Though if were down to me there would be no negotiations at all, ever. We don’t need the ungrateful (and corrupt) EU. Let it collapse, and I don’t care what festering mess it ends up in. Let the ungrateful buggers rot.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

      Ah, another blockade-and-rationing fanatic, somehow claiming that the UK would be in a position of strength under those conditions.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

        Not so long ago you were talking of blockades by the EU.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:25 pm | Permalink

        I’ll get in a lot of flour and yeast for breadmaking, and dig up a lawn for potatoes.
        I’ll be alright Martin.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

        What do we buy from the EU that is SOOOOOO important?

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 3:21 am | Permalink

        MiC

        “Ah, another blockade-and-rationing fanatic”

        Blockades are not the same thing as simply not trading in the first place. For blockades see France, the nation infamous for attacking British fishing vessels, setting fire to Welsh lamb, and generally behaving in such manner whenever they can’t get their own way.

        As for rationing; well I think some things should be rationed at the moment to prevent greed buying.

  46. Posted October 29, 2020 at 5:25 pm | Permalink

    We didn’t vote for free trade deals we voted to be completely independent and trading by WTO rules and if that means tariffs then so be it. Have to say trading by anybody’s rules does not sit well with me I think we should be independent of the WTO as well- so if Boris dishes up anything less I will be massively disappointed and feel let down. Government and MP’S are there through the House to carry out the wishes of the people, anything less will not be taking back control and will be a sell out

    • Posted October 30, 2020 at 6:33 am | Permalink

      I think that your opening sentence misses the mark. The expectation of many voting Leave – and I was one of them – was probably that we were better off making our own FTAs than relying on the EU to negotiate for its members. I believe that FTAs are a better option than simple adherence to WTO arrangements. Where we might agree is that I don’t want the government to be so keen on an FTA with the EU that it leaves us almost a member of the hated Union.

  47. Posted October 29, 2020 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

    “We can trade well and grow our trade without a Free Trade Agreement” – This is certainly true, but *not* with the damaging WA and NI Protocol ties to the EU that will remain after the end of transition on 31sy December.
    The EU knows very well that if FTA negotiations break down before 31 December, there will be additional pressure on the PM to abrogate the WA in Parliament. That is why unless the PM gives way to their demands on ECJ ajudication and state aid (rules the EU can easily skew and manipulate in the future) Brussels will infinitely extend FTA negotiations – and even change EU law to enable them to be extended. That way, it will look as if the UK broke them off.
    Even with a FTA, the WA and NI Protocol are minefields. Tory MPs should all do public penance for having read, understood and voted for them.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

      Someone try to remind us why, exactly, the UK is inflicting this endless list of troubles upon itself?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

        Independence.
        For which many people have fought and dies for.

        • Posted October 30, 2020 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

          Edward2

          Independence? Like the one we gave to the people of our empire? We called them ‘terrorists’ or ‘traitors’ when they tried to rid themselves of their conquerors/invaders.

          • Posted October 30, 2020 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

            More anti British nonsense.
            I do hope you don’t get to educate impressionable young minds with your distorted take on history.

          • Posted October 31, 2020 at 12:54 am | Permalink

            Edward2, I am really really sorry but there are a lot of histories of the Empire written by a wide variety of authors, covering the whole spectrum of political opinions. Whether they look at America (USA), India, Indonesia, African countries, all roughly agree that independence for most of them was most of the time not gifted by the British.

            The effect of WW1 when many soldiers from the Empire came to Europe to fight for Britain was an eye-opener for a lot of those who survived. Nothing much had happened in terms of granting more local powers between the two wars, despite the USA supporting the first calls for more independence and aiming at replacing Pax Britannica by Pax Americana.

            WW2 was again a big call to defend the mother country, and this confirmed the need for independence in a lot of colonies, specially when Britain had been continuing to import raw materials from them and selling them finished products without much effort to (help) develop the local industries in the overseas territories.

            After WWII, most British politicians, Liberals, Conservatives as well as Labour, were for granting independence ‘in the future’ (when the countries are ready), most of these politicians thinking within the next 50+ years. Then the ‘red threat’ became the perfect excuse to try to go on as before. The calls for independence were usually not accepted kindly by ‘the elite’. The USA continued to support these calls for independence if anything as new export markets but also to finish off the British Empire once and for all.

            After WW2, Britain was practically bankrupt and unable to sustain the cost of maintaining the Empire. So the story of a peaceful decolonisation was the smoke-screen produced by various governments for the populace.

            You might be of a generation which was spoon-fed the greatness and benevolence of the British Empire, but histories specially written by ‘the natives’ (and not all anti-British) give rather different views of the decolonisation of the British Empire. If the younger generations could get a more balanced view of the Empire including his major successes but also its ‘warts and all’, maybe when getting older they might hesitate at volunteering comments as short-sighted as yours.

          • Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:20 am | Permalink

            Currently there is no danger of history students failing to get what you amusingly call “a more balanced view”.
            Most teachers have similar left wing, anti British views to Margaret and you.

            Whenever I read posts by you two on the British Empire I’m reminded of the Life of Brian film, the part where the Judean People’s Front are sitting around debating “what have the Romans done for us”

            It would benefit both of you to look it up and watch it.

        • Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

          Edward 2
          Hefner does give a good explanation on a lot of the stuff you as usual know very little about

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

        It’s the Remainers Attacking their own country and people. You, pet!

        • Posted October 31, 2020 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

          Blind nationalism is a most unattractive trait in human nature and ‘my country right or wrong’ has led mankind down many dangerous alleys. It takes brave people who are willing to risk all to challenge nationalism in all its ugly forms.

          • Posted October 31, 2020 at 4:57 pm | Permalink

            Why define it as blind nationalism?
            We can openly criticise our country and its government.
            And vote out the government at every election as we have done many times.
            Unlike many of the rogue states that threaten us.
            Nationalism isnt ugly.
            Globalism is.

        • Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          But in thsi case they make sense because they are much better informed then you are, they probably read before they write?

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff – home of the non-essential devolved Labour Government.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

        The UK is not inflicting anything on itself. The EU is trying to do that. If they keep up their game of bluff and we leave with no deal – and German car sales collapse because they become 10% more expensive – certain EU commissioners will learn the facts of life very quickly. It’s all about money. Everything is.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:18 pm | Permalink

        Because we want to be a free and independent country rather than having our territory divided up and absorbed into new administrative districts of a single undemocratic European entity.

        • Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:34 am | Permalink

          beresford

          The way things are going we don’t need any EU help in dividing ourselves. Scotland and Ireland will soon vote for independence leaving just a rump England to fend for ourselves in a world of huge trading and power blocks.

          Maybe the US will have us as their 51st state and force us to use the dollar as our new currency.

          • Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:08 am | Permalink

            Neither Northern Ireland nor Scotland could fend for themselves without being subsidised by England.

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

      The withdrawal agreement is a legally binding international treaty. Voted for almost exclusively by Conservative MPs.

      We will make sure they own the blame.

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

        It is just a trade agreement.
        It fails if there is no agreement with the EU.

        • Posted November 3, 2020 at 11:33 pm | Permalink

          It is still an international treaty, wherther it is trade or anything else, subject to international law

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

        Andy in Brussels !

      • Posted October 29, 2020 at 11:23 pm | Permalink

        No, you won’t. People know any blame lies with people like you who have given the EU the belief that we have to capitulate.

        • Posted November 3, 2020 at 11:34 pm | Permalink

          Mike Wilson

          Utter nonsense

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 3:13 am | Permalink

        Andy

        “The withdrawal agreement is a legally binding international treaty”

        No it is not an international treaty.

        As for blame ; we too shall make sure the conservatives get the blame if said WA is not ripped up and / or there are compromises to the EU.

  48. Posted October 29, 2020 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

    JR

    Resonant article, but may I suggest simply ripping up the WA and closing the door in Macron’s face…..just do it.

    You must surely realise any compromises – no matter how they are dressed, will not go down well with voters and will be the end of the conservatives.

    We expect no compromises whatsoever with the ungrateful EU, we expect the immediate end of French fishing in our seas, we expect France be forced to stop dumping their unwanted migrants on our shores, we expect the ECJ to not have any jurisdiction in this country…..and we expect the decriminalisation of the TV licence fee which was promised – why has it not happened ?

    If our expectations are not satisfied, it’s game over.

  49. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

    Another clear statement of reality from JR.
    Government and other MPs, please take serious note; and withdraw from WA too.
    Else put the WA to the British people in a referendum and ask: do you want your politicians to commit you to paying vast and open-ended sums to the EU for which we have no obligation, and be under the ECJ ?

    • Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

      We have answered that question already.

      • Posted October 30, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

        Correct.
        Except many MPs need the message reinforcing. They need to learn that they should represent the UK totally and not the EU.

  50. Posted October 29, 2020 at 8:54 pm | Permalink

    Concur

  51. Posted October 30, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    None of you know reality.

  52. Posted October 30, 2020 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    Well the 15th came and went – and now we are almost on Halloween when people would light bonfires and wear costumes to ward off ghosts. The bonfires should have been to celebrate freedom from the WA, and warding off the ghost of the EU. Instead we are back in the fear of witches, Downing St and the Establishment.
    ‘Get it done’ indeed.
    ‘Dead in a ditch’ indeed.

  53. Posted October 30, 2020 at 11:36 pm | Permalink

    JR

    “Lop sided trade agreements can be damaging, as our EU has been to our farming and fishing industries.”

    Once more you fail to mention that our fishermen sold most of their fishing allocations to other EU members, mostly Spanish, for a quick profit. Greed did all the damage.

    As a matter of interest, do they now have to buy them back? And what if the new owners don’t want to part with them? After all you can’t sell your house/car/furniture and demand them back years later.

    • Posted October 31, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      The quotas were so poor that smaller operators could not carry on.
      They had a choice of financial disaster or selling up and leaving the industry.
      What would you have done Margaret?
      It is outrageous for you to call it greed.
      You know what you are saying is wrong yet you keep coming on here saying the same thing.
      Why?

      • Posted October 31, 2020 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

        So how did the other EU fishermen manage with these ‘poor quotas’?

        It was either pure greed or inefficiency that made them sell.

        So why do you think they will do any better now? Have they kept some of their money back to stake new claims in this glorious new dawn you Brexiteers keep promising?

        • Posted October 31, 2020 at 4:51 pm | Permalink

          They added those quotas to the ones they already had thus giving them even larger quotas.
          After we become independent of the EU (assuming we do not do a deal) then normal 12 mile limits will apply to fish in our legally owned coastal waters.
          The scourge of quotas will be ended.

          I’m surprised you didn’t realise.

          • Posted October 31, 2020 at 4:54 pm | Permalink

            Smaller operators were greater in number in the UK compared to European trawler fleets.
            And EU gave these bigger European trawlers bigger quotas.
            Economies of scale.
            It is all available to read on the internet once you get beyond the Guardian.

      • Posted October 31, 2020 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

        As of 2018, 77% of the British fishing boats (12,000 fishers) were less than 10m long owing 4% of the UK fish quotas. One huge ‘factory’ fishing boat, registered in Caterham (which looks to me to be within the M25) and owned by Dutch interests, was owning 23% of the same quotas. That has been explained by some commentators by the ‘slipper skippers’ who sold their quotas abroad over the previous decades and went to ‘enjoy retirement’.

        As of 2019 £160m worth of ‘UK fish’ quotas (55% of the total UK quotas) were owned outside the UK by mainly Icelandic, Norwegian and Dutch fishing companies. The total UK fish quota was worth £293m in 2019. If compared to the other UK nations, Scotland has a £523m total quota, with only £23.9m in foreign hands, NI has a £72.6m with £1.2m in foreign hands. Only Wales looks worse than England (in percentages) in that respect: £1.7m total quota with £1.4m in foreign hands.

        These figures to me clearly show that there is a problem with fishing, but mainly an English problem.
        Is that a EU problem? Kind of, but certainly exacerbated in England.
        Is that a specific French problem? Interestingly the French fishing industry around metropolitan France (specially in the Channel and North Sea fishing grounds) is mostly handled by small fishing boats. The clash between French and British small fishing boats might help the usual populists sell copy or fill their blogs with angry commentators, but it is likely that a large part of the problem (environmental in particular) is linked to the role of the bigger factory trawlers.

        That might be more difficult to address specially for a coastal MP like Sir John, as the ‘big’ fishing industry has more ways to lean on politicians than the ‘small fish’ ones.

        • Posted October 31, 2020 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

          Hi Hef
          You have been busy.
          Sadly you start off in 2018 which is decades after the EU fisheries policy took effect.
          Have another go.

          • Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

            Edward 2
            Do not be so arraogant

          • Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

            Hi Edward2, another ‘interesting’ comment. What exactly was your rebuttal about? I can understand a cumulative effect over the years (even starting as early as 1973 if you wish) on the overall level of UK fishing activities, but please explain why the dire situation appears to be particularly impacting England, not Scotland and NI. I am sure you must have a lot of powerful arguments. Please have another go.

          • Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

            Hef,
            Not sure you are correct about it being a U.K. problem. You will recall the EEC fishing quota system has never changed in that the amount of overall fish caught. The amount would be shared among those countries in the EEC.

            So when new members joined the overall total quota remained the same but the existing members would have their quotas reduced to allow for the new country to have a share.

            You will recall when Spain joinedthe EEC the U.K. had its quota reduced, even though it was formerly UK waters. Heath hid this from parliament as he did many other EEC matters where it showed joining the EEC to be a poor decision.

            I agree it was a poor decision to join the EEC, a poor decision to give away territorial waters and fish as a shared resource, a poor decision to remain in the EU.

            The way the EEC and now EU manage the quotas demonstrates poor EU decision making. With weak insipid successive U.K. Govts going along with it when it was obvious the UK would always be out voted.

            It is a good idea to leave the EU to regain territorial waters and fishing stocks. The U.K. should never have joined the EEC or allowed control of waters and stocks to EEC.

          • Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:02 am | Permalink

            Thanks Hope for your informative contribution. Maybe you have an explanation why the impact was mainly felt by the English fishing industry, and not so much by the Scottish and NI fishing industries.

  54. Posted October 31, 2020 at 11:38 pm | Permalink

    PS
    Wokingham isn’t a coastal constituency.

    • Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:05 am | Permalink

      Do I really have to put an emoji to make you understand it is a joke. I live in Sir John’s constituency.

      • Posted November 2, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

        02/11/2020: BBC website: ‘Can Brexit bring back the glory days of British fishing?’ for anybody not wearing blinkers.

        • Posted November 2, 2020 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

          Hef,

          In answer to your question. Look it up, you will better informed next time.

          UK govt represents the country in all EU matters. Devolvement does not give them a vote or say in EU. Come on, you can do better than that.

          • Posted November 3, 2020 at 10:20 am | Permalink

            So you are as bad as Edward2, unable to explain why English fishermen sold their rights and not the Scot or NI fishermen.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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