What is the point of a lock down?

The first national lock down was said to be for one main reason – to save the NHS. The NHS was short of Intensive care beds and breathing systems at a time when that was thought to be the only treatment for bad cases of CV 19. This time the government advisers say hospital admissions may stay below the April peak which was handled, or may be three times that level. What is the use of such massive ranges as forecasts?

The time of that lockdown was used to procure many more ventilators, to put in four large new Nightingale hospitals and to expand ICU capacity in existing hospitals. More nurses and doctors were hired, and recently retired qualified staff were tempted back to help with the crisis. The peak demand in April was comfortably accommodated by the NHS. Serious cases came down, though some argued the peak had been reached at or before the lock down started. As we went into summer with more Ultra violet light and warmer temperatures which both damage the virus case numbers stayed relatively low.

The lock down also gave the medical and scientific establishments more time to research the virus, to understand more about its transmission and its impact on infected people. As a result we now know than some steroids, anti virals and clot busting drugs can make a difference to serious cases and can save some lives.

Today we are told there needs to be an extensive “circuit breaker”. It’s a strange analogy, because of course a circuit breaker immediately cancels all dangerous power in a system, whereas a lock down does not immediately turn the virus off. When you put a circuit breaker back on full power is restored immediately, but what I assume these scientists want to do is to use a period of lock down to bring virus spread down, before resuming some relaxation which on their analysis will allow some drift back up. How does this help? How much relaxation would they allow and how much extra virus circulation would they find acceptable? Why are we not given measurable targets in advance so we can see what they are trying to achieve?

The advisers rightly warn us there may be no magic bullet or solution early next year in the form of a vaccine which offers full protection.This means the true question to answer is how do we live with this virus? What is the right mix of policy to keep the spread down, to protect the vulnerable, but to allow more jobs and activity than we currently enjoy?

It is no good the government imposing a whole new raft of controls over people’s daily lives if there is insufficient buy in by the public. To work people have to be persuaded it is necessary to follow the rules, and the rules have to be the minimum to keep virus spread down sensibly . What controls do you think are necessary?

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523 Comments

  1. Pominoz
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:21 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    This is a prime example of political cowardice. The virus is already widely spread and, whatever is done, it will not be eliminated. No-one really knows how many people have, or have had, Covid, but experience in treating it, coupled with the fact that, to a large extent, those which were most vulnerable, have probably already succumbed, means that the death rate will continue to decline and become insignificant.

    The reason for the current lockdown is simply that the ‘experts’ (a questionable term) and the politicians they advise, cannot possibly be seen to abandon caution as that would expose the fact that they were probably wrong the first time.

    The sooner the virus is allowed to run its course, the sooner its effects will diminish and, in all probability, effectively disappear. The economy is the priority at this time.

    I am afraid that Boris, in whom so many placed their faith, is increasingly, in the context of Covid, Brexit, immigration, climate and loads of other areas, demonstrating that he is a political mouse. If he now concedes ground to the EU, he will have totally failed to provide the leadership which the country needed and he should be encouraged by those with more backbone that he should go.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

      Hear hear.

      All they are doing is dragging out the agony.

      • Hope
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        JR,

        Four fools have decided a nation wide lockdown without any debate or parliamentary scrutiny. Lord Sumption eloquently sums the lack of legal authority Andy under hand tactics by your govt to use the wrong legislation. So how many of you will vote it down?

        back in April Hancock had 700,000 volunteers. What has he done with them? Has he trained them to be nurses, auxiliary nurses, porters? Or has he done nothing in line with his catastrophic public health policy failing from planning, preparing and delivery. What has he got to do to get sacked?

        Flip flop strategy, fumble about in dark hoping something might deflect or come up. Is that really a way to run a country? Policy decidedmon Johnson’s personal circumstance. Utterly outrageous. No worry you all had a pay ris etaking you into the top earners of society to stop MPs thieving! Unbelievable.

        Con Woman has link for petition against lock down and to write to your MP to oppose such a stupid move. How many more how often? When will it implement the Great Barrington Declaration?

        • Hope
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

          JR, I just read all comments here.

          Your govt and PM is held in very low regard along with the left wing fools who advise him.

          Still no accurate figures produced to evidence and support govt action. None. Fiddled death figures are clear to everyone.

          The figures all estimates and estimates on surveys. What next witchcraft and vodoo forecasts?

          Nightingale hospitals were just expensive props. Not used. Not to even to sensibly separate those with high infection from others with every day Health conditions!

          Hospitals are greater hotspots to catch the virus than any pub, theatre or other hospitality business. All of which complied at their expense to be covid compliant, for what? To be closed by your Govt!

          It appears Johnson agrees with whoever shouts at him the loudest. He has got to go.

          I suppose we all carry on as usual and if stopped say we are testing our eye sight (Cummings defense) or say, with a slight cough, we are going to A&E with some ailment.

          I signed the petition and wrote to my Fake Tory MP. Irrespective of Labour people will be watching how their MP votes.

      • Hope
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

        Will the police target previous offenders like Cummings, Jenrick, Johnson, Hancock and Witty? Three/four of which just decided to lock down the country!

        There is no logic or rationale that a lock down will help anything, the first one did not. Where is the evidence for the four week period? Why not two weeks? The first was meant to be three weeks! Three months did not work.

        During the first lock down govt allowed planes full of people from China and other virus hot spots would not make a significant difference we were told by ministers and our top experts! Idiot Johnson stupidly gave WHO and EU hundreds of millions of our taxes instead of rebuking them. Trump stood up for his country.

        What is the other side of the coin for deaths caused by not being treated? Covid way down on list of causes for death even with govt. fiddled figures!

        Starmer is now a shoe in.

        Polls for independence in Scotland soar because of their dislike for Johnson!

        People will not forget the catastrophes Johnson has caused- old people consigned to death from hospital to care homes despite promise of ring of steel by Hancock, businesses bust, jobs lost, savers, strivers and prudent hit. Boat people and welfare looked after in four star hotels. Nor will they forget MPs silently accepted the destruction of our economy and way of life.

        Fake Tories: Get out now while we might be able to save our country from Johnson and co.

      • Iain Gill
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

        I hear Simon Stevens the head of the NHS is the one who convinced Boris about the lockdown, another Philosophy, Politics and Economics graduate with no idea about science. It is quite clear the way these useless pointless degree types from Oxbridge getting favourable promotions in British society is a large part of the problem. Classist anti meritocracy. Frankly as head of a national embarrassment he should have been sacked long ago.

      • L Jones
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

        Yes, indeed. As the estimable Dr Yeadon says: hiding away from the virus is like hiding from the weather. It’ll still be there when you come out.

    • Stephen Priest
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

      Supermarket workers continue to have miraculous immunity from this disease.

      The vast majority of Conservative MPs are spineless sycophants

      • zorro
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:20 am | Permalink

        Herd immunity has clearly been achieved in supermarket workers as they have never been locked down and hidden from the virus… Go on prove me wrong.

        zorro

        • glen cullen
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:16 am | Permalink

          Basically if you’re fit and well, active and under 70 – no real problem

          • Hope
            Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:08 pm | Permalink

            From the outset supermarkets were not Covid compliant behind the shop floor. Managers insisted that staff were not wear masks! They thought it would scare their customers!

            Off or on the shop floor! Sharing of desks, canteens etc all allowed by staff. Only their public canteens were closed.

        • Mark B
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

          Good point !!!

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

          Life on Earth is controlled by a green rabbit on one of Saturn’s moons.

          If you can’t prove me wrong, then I am obviously right.

          • Dr. Sok
            Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

            No. Yum oh have to come up with evidence of green rabbits. There is ample evidence on the other question.

          • Zorro
            Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:08 am | Permalink

            Martin, neither you or I live on the moon, but we do go to supermarkets 🙂

            Zorro

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 4:46 pm | Permalink

          +1

      • miami.mode
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:34 am | Permalink

        SP, why didn’t the supermarket workers pass the secret on to the 30 London bus drivers who have died?

        • sam
          Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:05 am | Permalink

          link please??

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:04 am | Permalink

      The root cause of the ‘political cowardice’ is the PM’s aversion to being disliked. It’s a fatal flaw in a leader. He has to go!

      • zorro
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

        Exactly – the Emperor has no clothes and it’s not a pretty sight.

        zorro

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

        He is hated on the same scale as Major, Blair and May!

        • Hope
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

          +1. Sad but true. He had such a head start.

      • Hope
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:21 am | Permalink

        +1 spot on. Totally unfit for purpose.

    • zorro
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      Exactly – It is clear that Our Dear Leader can only follow Macron and Merkel, so it’s becoming clear what will happen over Brexit.

      The lockdown has no point and as JR states, no measure was given as to what has to be achieved for it to be lifted – zero covid??

      As Holmes would say…. “Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth”

      People really need to wake up to what must be going on here with the ridiculously out of proportion reaction to this disease and the clear collateral damage which is being caused.

      What would Holmes say?

      zorro

    • Richard1
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      In the U.K. as in other countries the govt is being bamboozled into lockdown as the entire focus is on numbers of Covid deaths and irrelevant and unpleasant international comparisons. Looking around the world – at countries which have put in hard lockdowns against countries which have done little or nothing, and the same with US states – there is no evidence lockdown has worked. What it does, at best, is delay the rate of infection.

      We must also take a moment to heap derision and contempt on the leftwing opposition and the leftwing media. All they do is shriek (opportunistically changing tune in the case of Starmer) for more lockdown. Absolutely no challenge to the fundamentals, like are 93% of the population really at risk as asserted by sage rather than c 25% by other scientists? Is the death rate really 1% as sage says or 0.2% as the global data suggest? Is it true that only 7% of the population have been infected as sage say, or 30%+ as other scientists calculate based on the death rate?

      MPs must demand a red team-blue team exercise and full disclosure of the data, modelling and cost benefit analysis behind this hugely costly policy.

    • Cynic
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

      More Petain than Churchill.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:27 am | Permalink

      Pominoz, I totally agree. We have a lockdown now, then we all get together for Christmas and it comes back. It’s like a record on repeat. We have to just get on with life and live with it the same way we do the flu. If a vaccine is available then many will have it and even though we know it is not a cure our economy cannot stand these shut downs much more. There will be no NHS, no local services and no money to pay for benefits of any sort if we don’t man up. If Boris concedes to the EU then he is toast.

    • A.Sedgwick
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:27 am | Permalink

      If there any concessions to the EU he has to be political toast.

      Many were fooled by “Get Brexit Done” and “Oven Ready” but the WA was dreadful and unrealistic as it is proving.

      Despite being 100% for Brexit there was too much evidence of his being totally wrong for the job. Disappointing that NF made his first major political error in withdrawing candidates. “None of the above” acquired a few more votes.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:14 am | Permalink

      Spot on – fully agree

    • NickC
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:56 am | Permalink

      Pominoz, Exactly! Covid19 is just one more disease in a pantheon of diseases that we must do our best to counteract. But the idea it can be “stamped out” is delusional and petulant.

      Moreover, the government and the NHS concentrating on covid19 to evidential exclusion of other diseases is dreadful. From breast feeding to cancer the NHS is failing. If, in the panic of the moment, Boris Johnson thinks he can get away with this, he is very much mistaken.

      Initially I was prepared to support the government even if they were wrong – because making correct calls in March was almost impossible. But we know now that the first lockdown didn’t work. And I, and almost everyone I know, no longer supports the absurd covid19 policies of this government.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

        I and everyone I know too, also oppose this lockdown and will not be complying. However our businesses have been shut down and they are unable to trade. We need a class action for compensation for the loss of the Christmas trade, the best of the year.

    • Christine
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

      Boris needs to go but who could succeed him? He is no Churchill. We have had a succession of dire leaders for the last 30 years with even more waiting in the wings. We need a saviour to step up and lead this country out of the mess being inflicted on us by this current Government. We need someone with vision who is not afraid to take the right decisions. Does he not realise he is giving Labour an open goal to sweep to victory at the next election. The damage he is doing to the economy will be long lasting but the death of a few hundred people will soon be forgotten. Treat this as a war where you expect some casualties for the greater long term good. I think COVID has affected Boris’s senses.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

        You write this on JR’s blog and ask ‘Who?”.

        • Cornmaiden
          Posted November 2, 2020 at 10:03 am | Permalink

          Perfect – I have been of this opinion for years

        • Christine
          Posted November 2, 2020 at 10:12 am | Permalink

          I would like nothing better than Sir John as our Prime Minister but if he doesn’t enter the contest he can’t win. The problem with the leadership contest is that it’s down to the MPs to select the two candidates they want to put forward to the membership.

    • Kevin Caudwell
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

      I completely agree.

      It is either political cowardice or there is some nefarious agenda afoot (such as The Great Reset)

      Recently, even Steve Baker who I thought had at least some backbone was given “thin gruel” by Hancock in terms of parliamentary scrutiny and he said thank you and classed it as a great victory.

    • Peter
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

      ‘What is the point of a lock down?’

      I don’t know.

      Possible reasons include :-

      Justifying the original strategy and opinions of the chosen experts.

      Success in beating a hugely pessimistic death forecast.

      Laying the ground for The Great Reset, as suggested by the World Economic Forum.

      Testing how far control of the population can be pushed.

      Providing cover/distraction for an unsatisfactory ‘Brexit in Name Only’ deal.

      A desire to be seen to be doing something. A desire to follow the policies of many other countries.

      Political pressure from within the U.K.

    • Nannette
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      Very well said! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

    • John Hatfield
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

      +1

  2. Frances Truscott
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:34 am | Permalink

    New tests are being developed that are quick and non invasive. We need tests to do at home and financial support for those who isolate.
    New treatments are being developed. We need treatments in the community so it becomes just another illness.

    • matthu
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:36 am | Permalink

      Increase the testing? Regardless of how many false positives are thrown up, regardless of whether the people you are testing are symptomatic or not, regardless of how disruptive this approach is to the rest of the country?

      This is what you do if you intend to collapse the economy, collapse the currency, collapse the backbone of the people.

      • Sharon
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

        Hear, hear!

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:47 am | Permalink

        My tenant, a hairdresser had to shut her shop because one of her staff tested positive, in all probability a false positive, nevertheless 14 people without work or compensation. Totally mad! Who would volunteer to be tested?

        • glen cullen
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

          Teachers would

      • Rodney Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

        Exactly! The issue is the statistical lies – (infections nearly all asymptomatic are not “cases” indeed they may not even be infections because of excessive sensitivity of the tests beyond their recommended cycles.
        The deaths figures are equally fallacious. I notice the government long ago stopped giving the figure for deaths without comorbidities. There are 1600 deaths a day in the uK from all causes. 300 from covid cannot be allowed to shut the country down.

      • glen cullen
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

        +1

      • Barbara
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:57 am | Permalink

        Matthew

        Quite so

      • Christine
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

        I believe any Government with the slogan Build Back Better is part of this great reset scheme.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:48 am | Permalink

      Still not sacked Dido Harding though have they, for making a complete mess of things.

      Still carrying on with incompetents in charge.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

        Look, when a blizzard comes we’re in a mess because the Bottom Liner Tories have sold off the snowploughs over the years, along with their garage sites to developers.

        It’s the same with all contingency materiel.

        It doesn’t matter who happens to be in charge – there just aren’t any metaphorical snowploughs.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

          Councils decide on purchases of things like snow ploughs.
          Blame them

      • Andy
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

        Why would they sack her? She is one of the gang. This government has taken the idea of jobs for the boys (and girls) to the extreme. Huge contracts dished out to mates with no scrutiny.

        For example according to the Sunday Times the head of UK vaccine taskforce – who reports directly to Boris Johnson – has no experience of vaccines. But she is married to a Tory minister. I am sure she is a nice person but should we not have the UK’s top vaccine expert in charge?

      • MWB
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:08 am | Permalink

        +1
        Useless woman.

      • Ian @Barkham
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

        +1

        Its not what you know but who you know – that’s how you get a ruling incompetent class

        • Iain Gill
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

          exactly

      • Know-Dice
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:19 pm | Permalink

        Agreed, failure of track and trace is costing us all dear. Data from t&t should be showing where these infection spikes are coming from, is it pubs, shops, restaurants or as I think from schools & colleges?

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

      Frances, yes we need medication that can be given out by the GP to tackle the virus as soon as people become infected if they have anything more than mild symptoms.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:23 am | Permalink

      Sounds like the madman from ww2, we’re developing this new and developing that new….it never happens – according to saga there isn’t a vaccine or cure for covid-19, just as there isn’t a vaccine or cure for the Spanish flu

      It’s a pipe dream to put all your money on a potential vaccine or cure

    • Graham Wheatley
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:02 pm | Permalink

      IIRC, ONS released a figure a short while ago declaring that it was probable that 5.7% of the population had been exposed to, and contracted CV19.

      That’s probably an underestimate, given that over two months ago ONS also stated that ” Two thirds of all those who had ever tested positive, were not even aware that they had contracted the disease “. TWO THIRDS.

      Now, I won’t dare to claim that that proportion could be applied to the entire population of the UK, but it is not unreasonable to expect that a significant percentage may have been exposed – ?30%?, ?20%? More? Who knows for sure because the testing capacity was not huge (especially when you remove the 40% of postal tests that Matt Hancock proudly proclaimed as part of his 100,000-by-the-end-of-the-month statement, and supposedly achieved on the last day of that month; Likewise his claim for 200,000 tests per day on day 28 of the following month. I wonder whether his 500,000 tests were achieved yesterday? [Ooh! I just checked on the.gov website and apparently it was <348,000, with a theoretical 'capacity' of 480,000 – so, whichever of those figures you choose, Matty-Boy, you've under-achieved. Again].

      Let us say that it is the aforementioned 5.7% (which I am sure is a gross under-estimate given that we are now 8 months down the line from our first recorded infections, and a further two months on from ONS '2/3' figure…).

      The UK Population is around 67,000,000. 5.7% of that is 3,819,000. Subtract the c. 1 million 'cases' (most of whom aren't actually, and have never been, 'ill') from today's 'dashboard' update, and that still leaves 2.8 million potentially infected people who have not been tested and are off the radar.

      With an increased testing programme, it is INEVITABLE that the number of positives will increase, regardless of any lockdown measures (and with time, that number will also increase further).

      Pubs/hospitality industry supposedly account for c.3% of transmission, whereas the Government Advisors freely admit that it is schools and other educational establishments that are the main incubators – and yet we keep these open? The (asymptomatic) children then return home and unwittingly infect (perhaps) the rest of the household. Some of those may go to a pub, so "I know! Let's shut the pubs".

      This is NOTHING to do with 'containment' It is ALL about coercive control, and I am sure in no small measure, designed to prevent people congregating – as they might normally do – to discuss life, the universe and everything…. including Covid-19, the Government measures and the huge holes in the logic that surround them. Some of those holes are big enough to drive a bladdy double-decker bus through – with the driver's door open.

      Those discussions (at the pub, sports club, gym, W.I. meetings etc etc etc) will then highlight the absurdities and promote a further more detailed discussion of the measures and further illogicallities. GOTO :START:, :REPEAT:….. and then the whol thing starts to fail…… which is why we cannot have people getting together to 'discuss things'.

      "You must learn to LOVE Big Brother".

  3. Caterpillar
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:48 am | Permalink

    Some people will have to die so that others can live.
    Some people will have to die so that democracy and liberty can survive.
    These are words that the P.M. is incapable of speaking, ideas that he refuses to recognise. They are real. I do not want people to die from Covid 19. I see risk to family, friends, Sir John, others and myself, but I recognise the greater risk in the future due to actions taken and not taken.

    The P.M. has given to much credence to the fourth rate advisers of SAGE, the CMO, DCMOs, CSA, Hancock and Sunak. They are the visible threat that should be avoided. The total failure of the ‘follow the science’ dogma is clear, it has narrowed vision to the level of blindness.

    The ‘follow the science’ dogma means that when models forecast an additional 10,000 to 100,000 deaths, the cost-benefit calculations of lockdown are not carried out, the Govt does not plan how to maximize the NHS or the economy in such a scenario. The ‘follow the science’ dogma demands no targets and so no judgements.

    The ‘follow the science’ dogma means to extend a 3 week Spring lockdown throughout the Summer so as to delay infection until Autumn and Winter , possibly allowing immunity levels to wane, concentrating rather than spreading the load on the NHS.

    The ‘follow the science’ dogma declares the practical problems of how to protect the vulnerable impossible, but claims the immunological problems always have a solution just on the horizon.

    The ‘follow the science’ dogma means that infectious events remain not understood, case studies are not made, Covid-secure design is not improved, masks aren’t made effective, air flows aren’t engineered, HEPA+UVA air purifiers aren’t rolled out, satisficing quick tests are rejected, micronutrient & prophylaxis studies are delayed

    The ‘follow the science’ dogma has wasted the Summer, left the NHS unprepared and prohibited problem solving. The ‘follow the science’ dogma has heavily discounted the future and completely discounted democracy.

    The ‘follow the science’ dogma has ensured that not all data is transparently released (the dashboard remains partial, propaganda not information), instead new fear stories can be rolled out whenever. The ‘follow the science’ dogma does not directly measure the susceptible population, it does not admit the infectious fatality ratios. The ‘follow the science’ dogma means to ignore the history of 1970s and much of the 1990s when each year there were large flu deaths but the economy was not closed.

    This country cannot wait 4 years to reject the P.M. that has followed such dogma, it is up to the Conservatives to eject him now. A defender of democracy, liberty, society and the economy is needed. But we have a tyrannical P.M. and naive Chancellor that wipe our memory of these things; destroy the U.K., destroy Enlightenment, destroy the economy’s ability to respond, destroy futures. A leader not destroyer is needed.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:32 am | Permalink

      +1000

      Boris out now.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

        +1

      • steve
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

        NLA

        Yep, he has to go.

    • matthu
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:39 am | Permalink

      +

      • Hope
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

        +1

        it is now a matter of national urgency to save our country from Johnson trying to destroy it.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:02 am | Permalink

      Even the Chinese did not take such a reprehensible position.

      Your terrible assertions are untrue.

      In that country, only around five thousand out of one-and-a-half BILLION people have had to pay the price which you dismiss so appallingly cheaply.

      The facts are, that in the UK scores of thousands have died and will continue to die, because of decades of Small State but highly centralised Conservative dogma, which leave the country literally unable to do a blind thing to save its life.

      • Richard1
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

        What ridiculous nonsense. Look at France – it has the largest state in the developed world and faces exactly the same issues. Or Belgium. Try to put in a little thought before posting.

      • Arthur Wrightiss
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:08 am | Permalink

        Do you really believe the Chinese figures , or is this another case of playing devils advocate ?

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

        MIC, the Chinese dragged people from their homes beating them as they went and threw them into the back of vans to force them to self isolate. It was shown clearly on the news. We haven’t resorted to that yet. Perhaps you think their way is better?

      • Caterpillar
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:20 am | Permalink

        MiC,

        Thank you for your feedback. In no way would I align with your apparent support for the Chinese Communist Party, but I remain glad that you have the freedom to do so.

        I would request that you re-read each of my points carefully and reflect upon them. You can quickly go away and find your own evidence. I stand by my assertions that the current dogmatic approach has prevented other practical actions being taken, actions that would have saved people now…and could have been done whatever the recent political history of the country. I stand by my view that future lives should not be discounted to the extent they have been (though I recognise the difficulty of intertemporal tradeoffs).

      • NickC
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

        Martin, You seem blithely – or is that cynically? – unaware that the historical price of “only around five thousand” covid19 deaths (if you believe the CPC, which I don’t) is millions of non-covid deaths. Totalitariansim – even authoritarianism – breeds lying as a way of life, as well as a way of death.

    • agricola
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

      You Bruti believe you have found the dagger with which to slay Caesar. Beware the Ides of winter and watch your own backs.

    • Reaction Harry
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:51 am | Permalink

      Yes, good comment. “Follow the science” is the equivalent of Brexit’s “listen to the [economics] experts”.
      They both use project fear to focus simplistically on a single aspect of a complex problem.
      What they really are doing in both cases is to “follow the the (perceived) politics” whilst pinning the blame on experts for their failure.

    • Christine
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • NickC
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

      Caterpillar, An exemplary comment, thank you.

      In particular the government is ignoring the appalling effects on the medical well being of a vast number of non-covid19 patients in the NHS. But people are beginning to notice – 14 out of 15 deaths are not due to covid19. As you say it is time for Boris Johnson to go. Like Theresa May he has become trapped by his own foolish decisions taken on the advice of partisan “experts”.

    • Suzette Burtenshaw
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

      Well said, Caterpillar.

    • Graham Wheatley
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

      Nail. Head. Hit.
      +another 1000+

  4. Ian Wilson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:54 am | Permalink

    An excellent analysis, thank you. I don’t recall the country shutting down in 1968 when 80,000 died of flu – it ran its course and died out on its own accord when immunity was reached, as some scientists just as qualified if not more so than Sage believe is imminent. There has been no real trend in infections or deaths for 4 -5 days which is admittedly too short to rely on but might point to the gloom being overdone.

    Perhaps due to the rise of modern communications it seems hysteria easily builds up now, remarkably similar patterns being seen in both climate and Covid 19 with excessive reliance on computer modelling. grossly exaggerated projections on dangers and vicious attacks on anyone expressing alternative views. We are losing free speech as well as the economy. This new lockdown and zero carbon will both achieve little except wreak economic suicide.

    • J Bush
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:27 am | Permalink

      I understand the flu and pneumonia deaths stats have dropped like a stone. Ever since the States decision on 5th October to group these deaths with covid-19 and call them all covid deaths. Along with heart attacks and traffic accidents, if the person had been tested less than 28 days before.

      According to the ONS the deaths are also still well within the 5-year average for this time of the year.

      • DaveK
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

        Another thing the ONS graphs show is that the vast majority of deaths are in the 65+ demographics and from the positive cases graph the vat majority of them are in the under 45s predominantly 19-25 range. So we have exactly the same real problem as before, how to protect our elderly effectively. One thing I will be watching closely will be any indication of a change due to the new lockdown. I suspect as before there will be none. I challenge everyone to look at the world data graphs and show on them a point where government action dramatically changed things.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:12 am | Permalink

      You take the logic lesson and stand it on its head.

      Yes, those thousands died in 1968 BECAUSE there were no major public health measures taken.

      Flu deaths in recent months and the incidence of the common cold have plummeted as expected. Only a hundred or so would have died in 1968 under similar conditions too.

      I really don’t know what can be done to help people like you, who deny what is staring them straight in the face, and persistently so.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:07 pm | Permalink

        We are looking at a civilisation ending catastrophe in the form of these lockdowns.

        Why do you deny what is staring you in the face ???

    • NickC
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

      Ian Wilson, I agree. Hysteria, coupled with wilfully ignoring both the plight of the non-covid patients (the majority), and the economy, is driving Boris Johnson into a dead end.

    • John Hatfield
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

      I find the BBC’s perpetual tales of doom and gloom so depressing.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

        Switch it off!

    • sam
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:13 am | Permalink

      that is the whole plan. The Great Reset

  5. Mark B
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:19 am | Permalink

    Good morning.

    Where is the science and a proven example where a so called, ‘Circuit Breaker Lockdown’ works ? If there is none, then all I can assume is that the government is not being led by the so called science, but by the President of France. We did not vote last year for President Macron to be in charge, we voted for a Conservative Government led by, Alexander Johnson MP. If the PM cannot run this country then it is time for him to go !

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:43 am | Permalink

      at least the president of France is fighting for free speech, and is prepared to use his military against terrorists who seek to stop it.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:28 am | Permalink

        The President of France deployed the military against the desperate French yellow vests and inflicted dead and much life changing violence against these unarmed people!

      • Hope
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

        Mark,

        The first three week lock down to squash the sombrero turned into three months and today the next lock down proves it did not work. So what do the four decide to do, do it again!

        It also proves the Nightingale hospitals were an expensive theatre used by govt because they do not have the staff to use them!

      • Mark B
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:47 am | Permalink

        France is at the cusp of a civil war. The French Presidency Elections are in 2022. ie He has just got over a year to sort the mess he is in.

        Yellow Vests

        BREXIT (Fishing)

        And now a growing civil war.

        • Iain Gill
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

          well Pakistan has nukes, and leadership that is anti France. it could all get rather serious unexpectedly and quickly. thats one of the problems with nukes becoming more common in the world.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

          +1

  6. Mary M.
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:21 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    Thank you for your measured assessment of the past few months. I would guess that many like myself turn to your Diary for a dose of uplifting sanity in the dystopian world we’re living in at the moment.

    Very, very disappointing to read in the papers this morning that Steve Baker caved (again).

    Mary M.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      only a few MP’s openly talking sense now

      • Fred H
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:16 am | Permalink

        how do we hear about them? The BBC will not name and present arguments against the political-baby Johnson!

        • Iain Gill
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:40 am | Permalink

          twitter seems to be the main source

          main stream media lost the plot

      • glen cullen
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:28 am | Permalink

        They fear the media more than covid-19

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

      JR is our only hope. Baker will follow if there is a strong lead.

      • steve
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

        Lynn

        I’d say Lord Sumption has it sussed better than anyone. Check it out on youtube. Government by decree – Covid-19 and the Constitution’: Lord Sumption

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

          Yep, but he can’t be PM. We need a lifelong Brexiteer with a brain sitting in the Commons.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:45 am | Permalink

      Very, very disappointing to read in the papers this morning that Steve Baker caved (again).


      Baker is fooling no one, he is a little traitor.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

        He’s just a weak man. Given strong leadership, he will be good support.

  7. Sakara Gold
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:25 am | Permalink

    If Johnson had done this six weeks ago – as he was advised to – we would now be coming out of it. As. I said in a previous post, the government is consistently behind the curve.

    There was no mention of closing the borders or resolving the problems with the test and trace scheme By allowing travellers to fly in from anywhere without being tested on arrival or being required to submit to enforced quarantine – thus preventing local outbreaks – we will only have to lockdown again, probably over Xmas.

    Johnson’s latest bunch of half measures will solve nothing except give us a short breathing space.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:41 am | Permalink

      wrong, a lockdown then would have solved nothing as much as a lockdown now will solve nothing. kicking the can down the road for a few weeks does not fix anything.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

        it fixes England’s economy into a nose-dive that will take years to pull out of!

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

        It saves thousands, tens of thousands, of lives.

        No it does not eradicate the virus as the Chinese etc. have done, but we are not concerned with absolutes in such an infantile way as you imply.

        This is about relatives.

        Learn the difference.

        • cornishstu
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:42 am | Permalink

          The only way it can save lives is if the NHS were under severe duress by slowing the infection rate so enabling them to cope. Those that are susceptible to the virus will still be so when restrictions are lifted, it will only become less of a problem for them when the majority of the population have had it i.e. Herd immunity, that will not happen if we are locked down. Whilst deaths are regrettable they are for some inevitable that is life, however the overall deaths for this year is no different from previous years. If PHE were to promote vit D and Zinc, and give those vulnerable HCQ it would do more in prevention of deaths than the Lockdown and wearing of
          face mask.

        • NickC
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

          No, Martin, the new lockdown will shorten tens of thousands of lives of people with non-covid diseases. And without having any discernable effect on covid19, going by the first national lockdown.

          Moreover thinking you can “eradicate” the covid19 pandemic with ever greater doses of authoritarianism is both delusional and childish – you cannot put covid19 back in the box and pretend all its horridness will magically disappear.

        • M Davis
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

          MiC: No it does not eradicate the virus AS THE CHINESE ETC. HAVE DONE,

          Express: CORONAVIRUS is unlikely to be ever eradicated completely and will cause seasonal outbreaks just like the flu virus, according to Chinese researchers.

          Anonymous: China has not eradicated the virus, obviously, and has the highest number of fatalities and infections on global epochal scale. The world will not enter China to observe the horrors of the deaths and damages of the virus until the world has survived this plague and China is given the clear for foreign powers to enter its sealed shut borders, if the world survives.

          Bloomberg: Chinese scientists say the novel coronavirus will not be eradicated, adding to a growing consensus around the world that the pathogen will likely return in waves like the flu.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

          MiCy – why would the Chinese be testing a city of 9m for ‘Covid’ -unless the bat-lady has walked out of her Lab and released something else?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:30 am | Permalink

      No, we would be gearing up for the ‘circuit breaker for the even more disastrous 3rd Wave!’

      • Ian @Barkham
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

        +1

        Its not the lockdown it is how we come out of it

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

          I wonder if they have a plan? What are they trying to achieve? Surely not flying by the seat of their pants? Or are they? Both Boris and Hancock look panicked to me. Gibbering. Wild eyed.

    • fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:35 am | Permalink

      Sakara, yes, there will be plenty of time for the virus to reappear before Christmas. Around 7 weeks! All this is happening at the wrong time and should have been allowed to run its course a lot earlier in the spring and summer.

      • fedupsoutherner
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

        Sorry that should be 4 weeks. All this and only if the general public sticks to the rules which we know many won’t.

  8. Mary M.
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:26 am | Permalink

    Sign the petition: ‘Do not implement a second national lockdown or other restrictions this winter’.

    10,852 signatures as I write.

    • matthu
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:41 am | Permalink

      A petition takes too long to gather support and is too easily brushed aside. On the other hand, what other avenue do we have.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

        I’m afraid the people are preparing for the ‘other avenue’.

      • NickC
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

        As in communist countries we can “pretend to work if they pretend to pay us”; or in this case we can merely pretend to obey Boris’s foolish and sinister rules, as most people I know are now doing. Very few – only the authoritarians amongst us – now buy into the government’s strictures.

    • Leslie Singleton
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

      Dear Mary–I disagree–Too much of the anti Lockdown argument is simply pure sentiment about the desire to preserve Xmas or grannies wanting to hug their granchildren. Nothing wrong with such sentiments but in comparison with the likely tsunami of deaths from carrying on ISQ they have to be treated as the pure emotion that they are. To me it is an obvious case of TINA. As one of my old bosses used to say, one has to distil the emotion out of it.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:53 am | Permalink

        We are suffering a tsunami of cancer, coronary and suicide deaths, are you unmoved?

        • Leslie Singleton
          Posted November 2, 2020 at 6:33 am | Permalink

          Dear Lynn–You comprehensively miss the point–Whether I or you or anyone else am moved or not is precisely what we should not be basing our decisions on. Think rational and evidence based.

      • Mary M.
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:21 am | Permalink

        Dear Leslie,

        I was not anti-lockdown first time around. I, like the majority of the country, trusted the Government’s judgement then, when little was known about how to treat people with the virus. We agreed to the temporary three-week curtailment of our freedoms to ready the NHS.

        I am now very concerned for people such as a 20-something hairdresser I know. Post-lockdown, she didn’t feel the salon was ready enough to take back clients safely. So she set up her own little one-woman business, investing in equipment, then driving to her clients’ homes.

        I’m also concerned for all the others who run small businesses. They followed government guidelines, putting in a lot of effort and often some of their own money to keep afloat, only to now feel that that effort and money was wasted, especially if they do not survive this second lockdown.

        Do sign ‘Repeal the Coronavirus Act 2020’ if you would like a proper debate in Parliament. 100,000 signatures are needed. About another 2,000 signatures are required before a debate will even be considered by the Speaker. This Wednesday at PMQs could our the last chance.

        • No Longer Anonymous
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

          And while these strivers are ground into the dirt and shafted by our Government they hand out yet more freebies (free school meals) to tattooed mums who prefer to get up late and smoke fags rather than give their kids a proper meal.

          Though another report says (yet again) that obesity is on the increase in poor children.

          The impression given is appalling. You are literally far better off by not working and having kids by a father anon than you are starting up a business.

          Government by footballer.

          I wonder what Prime Minister Whitty thinks.

      • Nicki Morley
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:39 am | Permalink

        👏👏

      • NickC
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

        Dear Leslie – I disagree – too much of the lockdown argument is simply pure sentiment about the desire to preserve the status quo ante. Nothing wrong with such sentiments other than being endearingly delusional. In the real world right now we have to learn to live with covid19 since we have neither a cure nor a vaccine. In the meantime blithely ignoring the deaths, and the reduction in medical well-being, of the patients with non-covid diseases is simply unacceptable.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

          Cruel actually.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:33 am | Permalink

      The second lockdown has always been planned as I pointed out here 5 weeks ago.
      No doubt it will be usef as a cover for selling out Brexit.
      The first one didn’t work and neither will this, we all know it won’t end on 2nd December.
      The only people in favour are the public sector and selfish pensioners whos income is guaranteed.

      • Ian Wragg
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

        Still no response as to why flu and pneumonia deaths have vanished from the government statistics.
        We should be very concerned.
        4 men ruling the country. It won’t end well.

      • Peter R
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:55 am | Permalink

        None of the pensioners I know are in favour and, as a pensioner myself, whilst my income is guaranteed my outgoings have expanded to include support for children and grandchildren.

        As for the public sector – I couldn’t possibly comment!

      • NickC
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

        Ian Wragg, I agree. Though the pensioners I know are not in favour of perpetuating foolish lockdowns.

      • John Hatfield
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

        Hey we’re not all tarred with your brush Ian!

      • John C.
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:28 pm | Permalink

        Would you advise pensioners to stop being so selfish as to draw their pensions and nobly starve to death? Do please let us know your opinion.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:30 pm | Permalink

          But use of the gas burners at the Crem is not very ‘green’.

  9. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    https://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2020/11/peter-hitchens-the-dictators-have-taken-over-and-we-didnt-even-notice.html#comments

    Peter Hitchens

    This is much more serious than that, Sir John. This is a political revolution and Parliament has been elbowed aside with ministers ruling by decree. A state police officer with 5 GCSEs can now bankrupt you with an arbitrary £10k fixed penalty ticket for doing something that was perfectly normal and healthy 7 months ago. But taking things at face value:

    The “circuit breaker” implies that businesses can just be switched back on. It is called such by people with no fear for their own livelihoods or pensions, no understanding of business nor any idea how to start one and nurture it and with a fervent belief in the magic money tree.

    It is also called such by people with much more malign intent – and as Lord Sumption says (in the best speech I have heard throughout this crisis) despots take over not with armies, but by telling the people that it’s for their own good.

    I came here to apologise for my intemperate comments last night but even in hour before dawn I cannot bring myself to do it.

    We are in serious peril and I’m not sure we can get out of it.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:40 am | Permalink

      agreed well said

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:57 am | Permalink

      Exactly!
      This, as everyone surely must suspect is an attempted coup of some sort! ( Obviously not fully understood by those not in the know). It has nothing to do with a virus.
      Surely JR you MUST SEE that to let people die from untreated diseases to save us from a unicorn virus PROVES that there is another agenda?? What is the DEATH TOLL from suicide and stopped treatments etc??
      This “coup” has been tried before with the same method but it didn’t work then because MSM was not so lying and the internet not so censored.
      THIS is why they have been working so hard to stop free speech.
      THIS is also why people have been warning and warning government to STOP caving into the Left wing. But would they listen?
      Stop the handwringing ( IDS too) and DO SOMETHING!
      This has all gone too far!
      I have said before…the Hard Left ( and I know this) have not been so happy in a very long time!

      • Sharon
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

        +1

      • Christine
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

        I’ve posted the latest ONS death figures below and it does indeed show an increase of non-respiratory deaths. Why aren’t politicians talking about this?

        To be cynical, you could say that to increase deaths from all causes will in turn increase the COVID deaths, as a percentage of people will have tested positive in the last 28 days and will be logged as a COVID death.

        As others on here have mentioned, we never locked down our country in previous flu outbreaks so what’s he justification now?

        I believe there’s something else going on and we need the few good politicians left to speak out.

    • oldtimer
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

      You make many powerful points. At the heart of the government’s response is its mantra “Save the NHS”. The NHS has been elevated to the status of the national sacred cow – above all else and every other consideration. It’s worship will destroy this country and its economy on which it and everything else depends. It has already failed those it is supposed to serve – the old shipped to care homes, the many thousands denied the treatments and operations that have been jettisoned since the first lockdown. We are now offered more of the same, a repetition of the measures that got us into the mess we are now in. The Johnson government is unfit for purpose.

      • Lifelogic
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:45 am | Permalink

        The NHS (a state virtual monopoly free at the point of rationing and non delivery) is one of the worse systems of health care going look at its dire outcomes and the endless delays, rationing and endless scandals.

        I am with Dr Yeadon in the Mail and Matt Ridley in the Telegraph today. We are very close to herd immunity in many areas and the infections were slowing nicely. A lockdown now will do more harm than good to the economy and to people’s lives.

        https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8899053/DR-MIKE-YEADON-Three-facts-No-10s-experts-got-wrong.html

        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/31/six-reasons-new-lockdown-deadly-mistake/

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

          +1

        • Lifelogic
          Posted November 2, 2020 at 3:29 am | Permalink

          Infection increases were slowing nicely I meant.

      • majorfrustration
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:49 am | Permalink

        spot on

      • Iain Gill
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:42 am | Permalink

        Dom spotted that the only thing stopping the Conservatives winning was their spoken words about the NHS. So he pushed for this NHS is great line. He didnt really believe it, he just knew it was needed to win. But now its gone too far, especially given the massive failures of the NHS.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:05 am | Permalink

      No Longer Anonymous
      For God’s sake be intemperate!
      Someone needs to be.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

      Parliament has a vote. They better put the breaks on this runaway train and the Tories had better replace this sick PM before the month is out. We need a caretaker PM by next week. No member of this Govt is acceptable.

      • steve
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        I agree entirely +1

        Puppet Johnson is in this up to his neck, he has to go immediately and there needs to be a judicial review concerning the unconstitutional and illegal way in which he and his controllers SAGE have been acting unlawfully since this syndemic broke out.

        Johnson is clearly a danger to this country and needs shifting pronto before he causes something akin to civil war.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

          I believe the Covid emergence legislation is unlawful. It contradicts many of our freedoms enshrined in Constitutional law. They were not explicitly repealed.
          It’s hard for Tories to attack their own government, especially as they were elected to deliver 1 thing, Brexit. That is why Brexiteer Labour lent Tories their vote just as Tories voted Labour when urged to do so by Powell. Country comes first. The Party has allowed Boris to coast for too long on too many fronts. I think because they know he is sick.

    • BOF
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:39 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:50 am | Permalink

      +1

    • mary
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:53 am | Permalink

      No Longer Anonymous I back everything you say. This lockdown is not because of health, a 2- year old can see that. Its a smokescreen for consummation of the globalist agenda, and is the biggest crime in history. It is demonic. Sir John can scoff if he likes but I can smell the evil of his governments actions.
      You ask for a solution Sir John. Well here’s my suggestion. I go along with the Great Barrington Declaration insofar as it recommends letting younger people get on with their lives, while more vulnerable people are helped to look after themselves. And not by shoving them into care homes to be murdered (sic).
      But we dont NEED or WANT a dangerous untested vaccine, God knows what’s in it.
      We NEED cancer etc treatments
      We NEED to stop being driven to despair by being deprived of very fundamental rights to work socialise breathe fresh air and worship.
      We dont NEED or WANT to be dehumanised and insulted by being muzzled like dogs.
      We dont NEED or WANT compulsory tests which just make money for certain parties and fraudulently drive up the number of cases. And it is an abomination that the military are to come to our homes Soviet style no doubt. to bully us. And doesnt the Licence to Kill bill empower them to do as they damn well like with us?And finally children. Stop abusing the nations children with obscene sex education , muzzles, chalk squares etc etc. These are crimes that stink to high heaven.

      • mary
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:55 am | Permalink

        PS I rename myself mary2 as theres already a mary posting here. Noticed this lady had a close friend who committed suicide from financial despair at this lockdown,. Yet Bo Jo want to do it all over again. How can he sleep at night?

        • mary
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

          PPS To digress slightly, I also am 100% certain that BoJo intends to strike a Brexit Security deal continuing the abominable EU Arrest Warrant arrangement whereby any of us can be arbitrarily arrested, extradited and imprisoned long term. The grappling iron of the EU Public Prosecutor. BoJo is clearly unconcerned about innocents and political prisoners languishing in jail just so that we can “cooperate” with the EU over crime. (Ha).
          And the UN Global Migration Compact will kick in ensuring anything but orderly migration. That’s not just my opinion, its also the opinion of Cardinal Robert Sarah in his book” the Day is far Spent” which I’ve been reading. who has some strong views about the whole raft of policies being pursued by globalist parties like your Conservative Party.

          • mary
            Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:34 pm | Permalink

            PPPS And I hope readers are keeping an eye on the fate of our Armed Forces at the hands of this Government. I naively thought they were always going to be there to defend Britain and its inhabitants,,,,,

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

        Well said. I’m with you all the way.

    • Donna
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      Agreed. I’m afraid the time for “temperate” language is over.

      The wealth and long-term health of the country is being destroyed by the single-issue fanatics of SAGE and our cowardly, scientifically-illiterate Prime Minister.

      • steve
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:18 pm | Permalink

        Donna

        +1

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

        +1 he is economically illiterate too. I mean what exactly is he good at? Hanging over the Thames upside down? Is that it?

  10. Cheshire Girl
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:32 am | Permalink

    No one is saying the virus will be eliminated. It is my understanding that this lockdown is intended to bring the virus under control in order that people may be able to see their families for Christmas.

    In my opinion, it doesn’t help for the Media to keep ‘banging on’ about Christmas being ‘cancelled’ and such rubbish. It sometimes seems as if they are deliberately stoking people’s fears, and thoroughly enjoying it. I find it hard to watch the BBC and Channel 4 particularly, sitting in their comfortable studios on their very large salaries, pontificating on what the Government is doing wrong. I’m sure they are keen for a Labour Government, but I wouldn’t wish having to address Covid on my worst enemy!

    • IanT
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      This Virus has been politicised by both Labour and the Media. I am truly fed up with them all. A National crisis and all we get is continual whinging.

      I am disappointed that we are entering another lockdown as the economy will be crushed by it. I can only be thankful that I am now retired and not trying to steer my company through this crisis. I am very sure our cash-reserves would have been gone by now and that has to be true of many small companies today. I used to worry in normal times but this would have been a complete nightmare.

      But I don’t blame Boris. Whatever he does, he will be wrong.

      Wrong to lock down too early, wrong to lock down too late, wrong to lock down at all. Surrounded by experts, who all have their own opinions and ideas of what best to do. Surrounded by other politicians, who also all have their own priorities and agendas. All you who are critical – would you really want his job right now. I sure as hell would not! He’s never been perfect but give the guy a break!

      We were doomed to another lockdown once the French & Germans decided to do so. That’s without the devolved Governments all playing silly beggars too.

      But the biggest problem – the Elephant in the room – is all those people who have not followed the rules because it simply didn’t suit them. Don’t want/need to wear a mask, don’t want to give up socialising, don’t care about social distancing, don’t care bout the old and vulnerable. For far too many – it’s Me, Me, Me.

      We live in selfish times I’m afraid and we will all now have to pay the piper.

    • glen cullen
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:36 am | Permalink

      Who’s to say its out of control – the virus only effects the unwell over 70s, the vast majority don’t have any symptoms or are very mild like a cold or flu

    • John Hatfield
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:18 pm | Permalink

      Tell that to my wife CG. To her the BBC is gospel and she will not tolerate any criticism. So we have to watch its unending message of doom and gloom.

  11. Iain Gill
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:37 am | Permalink

    John,

    Well said.

    Also the estimates of deaths from the lockdown are not being shown. The extra poverty will cause a lot of deaths, the NHS reducing care for other conditions will cause a lot of extra deaths, the misery will cause a lot of extra suicides, etc.

    This new lockdown does not help, when it is eventually lifted the virus will continue where it left off. The country cannot stay in lockdown for ever.

    Other important issues:

    1 Gyms and swimming pools should be allowed to stay open, as Lucy Allan has tweeted “Essential we enable people to stay active and healthy during lockdown. We must keep gyms and exercise studios open. People, particularly older people, don’t tend exercise outdoors in rain, cold and dark”. It is completely counter productive to stop people excercising.

    2 A lot of recently retired doctors re-registered to help during Covid, and the NHS has used precisely zero of them. Which blows apart this idea that the number of docs is the limiting factor on NHS capacity.

    3 Far too many families are in gaps in the supposed “help” the government has been giving, still nothing has been done to help them.

    I have a close friend in intensive care with Covid, I know very well how serious it is, but destroying the economy and people with more complete lockdowns is not the way to handle this.

    I am staggered at the obvious low quality of our supposed senior scientists, and our politicians who are allowing this to happen.

    If nothing else we should make universal credit payable regardless of savings now, we have helped out many permanent staff regardless of savings, this minimal safety net should now be available to all without spending their modest lifetime savings.

    Disgusted and upset

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

      2. Retired doctors do not need to help covid patients the younger, fitter doctors can do that, the retired doctors are needed to work with the pre-tested covid negative patients. In private hospitals you are tested three days before your hospital treatment and told to totally isolate for the next three days to not put yourself and the hospital staff at risk.

      3. Everyone has to share this pain equally including those not working in the public sector no more full pay if they aren’t working they should be on furlough and the money saving spent on providing services for the children in the UK, those requiring full time carers. You can’t have people totally safe and protected on full pay doing nothing tell everyone else what they can and can’t do to survive not just covid but living.

    • beresford
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:18 am | Permalink

      Of course if this was genuinely about public health and the NHS then gyms and pools would remain open. It is scientific fact that reasonable physical fitness improves resistance to covid 19 and a number of other conditions , as well as helping mental wellbeing, all of which reduces the load on the NHS. But it is about control. If you are resistant to the virus you won’t need their mandatory ‘vaccine’ when they pull it out from behind their backs.

    • bigneil(newercomp)
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

      No 2 – All those doctors that re-registered – wonder if they are getting paid?

  12. SM
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:38 am | Permalink

    I gather from the BBC that this new lockdown is to allow the NHS to cope. With all due respect to those in the medical profession who are working hard, the reports I have from UK friends in need of GP/clinic/hospital services is the ‘same old, same old’ NHS management incompetency.

    eg: A friend with diabetes + cardiac condition takes a daily anti-coagulant; after months of delays and mistakes on the part of GP and hospital, he was finally diagnosed as urgently requiring an operation for skin cancer. For this he needs to visit the anti-coagulant clinic to be properly and briefly weaned off the anticoagulant. This clinic cannot see him urgently as (and I quote directly) “it is very busy dealing with sick people”. His wife, who is herself in very frequent need of medical care, is trying to deal with contacting the various branches of the NHS to juggle these essential matters.

    All of this could be dealt with far more quickly, benefiting both sides, if there were admin officers who could co-ordinate such matters directly on behalf of patients from within the system itself. Instead, it is left to the sick, the tired, the bewildered and often frightened patient/carer themselves to negotiate the endless unanswered telephone and email processes, the incompatible appointment allocations or the receptionists who often seem to delight in announcing that there are no nurses or doctors on the premises.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

      it needs patients to have real buying power

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

        +1

    • IanT
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:21 am | Permalink

      I have to agree SM – but this was a problem before the Crisis,

      I have to have 6 monthly checks (scans and blood tests) which my local surgery are supposed to organise. You would think this would be very simple reminder for my GP to set-up on her PC. Unfortunately it seems not.

      Despite numerous letters from my Consultant, they are unable or unwilling to do this. So every six months, I waste my time (and the surgery’s time) by typically waiting an hour to be answered on the phone, explaining the problem and being told my GP will have to call me. This results in a call-back where my GP agrees to set-up the appointments. I always ask for the scans to be done at a local centre but about every other time I get scheduled elsewhere. Another series of long phone calls results in the appointment being moved.

      This has been my regular six monthly experience for about nine years now. My business would have collapsed if we had treated our customers like this. But we are not “Customers” we are “Patients” – and obviously therefore have to be patient.

    • Martyn G
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:33 am | Permalink

      I was referred to hospital for an investigative check. Got letter, went on line to book appointment, chose time and date and immediately a message came up saying “appointments cannot be made”.
      So called number on letter and after listening to awful music for 10 minutes spoke with a human. After a minute or so, was told “the hospital is handling your case, not us”. Us being presumably a contractor responsible for the website?
      Called the hospital directly and was told ‘a letter has been sent to a consultant for comment but no answer as yet’. The very NEXT day I get a letter saying ‘your appointment for 5th of January 2021 has been cancelled. Strange, since no one I had spoken with had any idea as to appointment date.
      The day AFTER the cancellation letter, I get another letter, 5 pages long with instructions etc of my appointment for 5th January. I then received 2 more letters cancelling the appointment that neither I nor anyone else knew about and the staggering thing is that they came from different parts of the hospital. The NHS as I see it, is in administrative terms alone simply not fit for purpose.
      We have reached the stage where I would be at more risk of covid in a hospital than in a properly managed pub!

      • Iain Gill
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

        yep we are more at risk of the NHS killing us than any virus

  13. J Bush
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    I get the overwhelming impression these lockdowns are not so much about protecting, but controlling the ‘little people’. Lord Acton was correct “power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”

    I also get the overwhelming impression the reason for this behaviour is evidenced by Johnson’s own mantra of “build back better” and “the great reset”.

    These statements come directly from the World Economic Forum, which is pushing global governance. When do we vote for them? Why hasn’t Johnson come clean and admit the real reason behind why he says this?

    The UN’s agenda 2030 makes it clear in its 17 goals. “no poverty” and “zero hunger”. Fine words, but how do they propose to achieve this?

    It is unlikely all the billionaires, millionaires and corporatists who attend these global forums are going to be giving their wealth away for the ‘common good’. However, by removing everyone else’s wealth (including SME’s) and the ability to be entrepreneurial, and denying the right to self determination, which is what these lockdowns are doing, you forcing those who work in the private sector down to the same level. i.e. supermarkets have stayed open throughout, yet these are the lowest paid in society.

    Has that sneaky ditto Osbourne created in 2014 that gives HMRC the power to invade your bank account been retracted?

    • Sharon
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      “Has that sneaky ditto Osbourne created in 2014 that gives HMRC the power to invade your bank account been retracted?”

      This urgently needs looking into!

      • bigneil(newercomp)
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

        I wonder if the HMRC’s bank account invading powers go as far as those who stash their cash in Panama? Or get paid in a firm in Madagascar? Or very wealthy bag-of-wind kickers? – it is only the lower classes who will see their accounts watched like a hawk. Immigrant drug gangs certainly will NOT – the govt is WAY too scared to go after the rich immigrant who has never worked since they got here years ago, yet drive brand new luxury vehicles.

      • Graham Wheatley
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

        Perhaps we can get Dishy Rishi to issue a statement categorically denying that the Government have had any discussions in regard to a Cyprus-Stylie raid on Bank Savings Accounts?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      They only seek..EQUALITY.
      And that means EQUAL POVERTY for us ordinaries…true commie style.
      As Hitchens points out, the famous Orwell quote about some pigs being “more equal” than others is often misconstrued.
      It does not mean that the rich are “more equal” in being richer…it means that the other animals are “more equal” in being totally equal in poverty and powerlessness!
      The stinking t*rd of Communism is always initially wrapped up in the glossy packaging of liberty and equality and “niceness”.
      Nice and kind it ain’t. Not once it tricks itself into power.

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:42 am | Permalink

      yes, they are levelling us down to Chinese levels so there is equality.

      • Mark B
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:54 am | Permalink

        BINGO !!!!

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

      Keep nothing in your bank account.

    • Christine
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

      TheGreatReset now trending heavily on Twitter.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

      This was EU legislation, I believe commonly y called ‘bale-in’; where they remove your money unilaterally, permanently, as they did in Cyprus. It was emergency legislation but now remains on the statute book as standard procedure.

  14. Everhopeful
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:03 am | Permalink

    And I suppose you all know that NGOs are now demanding we fully open our borders?
    Based on the drowning of people brought here BY NGOs! There is apparently footage of unwilling refugees being forced into boats by NGOs…but no notice is taken of that!
    No doubt the govt. will agree to now openly allow all to enter?

    • Cheshire Girl
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:34 am | Permalink

      Who cares what the self serving NGOs ‘demand’! The Government must show some backbone and say ‘No‘.

      I don’t vote for NGOs, – who have their own agenda.

    • bigneil(newercomp)
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      ” No doubt the govt. will agree to now openly allow all to enter?” – -or in plain English – the open borders free movement that Merkel went on and on and on about? England flooded with 3rd worlders, uneducated, non English speaking, NHS using with free translators provided, benefit claiming, sending their kids to schools paid for by us, unemployable but not wanting to get one because they have a rise in living standards just for getting here and doing NOTHING, that we HAVE to accept? CANNOT turn back, CANNOT deport – but we are expected to pay for?
      Do you mean them? The MILLIONS that want to come here and commit crime while WE have to pay for them to live here?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

        This is Boris’ politics. He believes in open borders.

  15. J Bush
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:11 am | Permalink

    “What is the point of a lock down?”

    I fully agree, what is the point? Everyone forced into this one size fits all, including those who have had the virus with no symptoms and those who have had symptoms.

    About a month ago my son felt poorly and went along to A&E, where he was treated as though he had Bubonic Plague. Tested him, told him he was probably positive, promptly discharged him,told him to isolate and all those he had been in contact with.

    When I went to collect him I was also treated as though I had the plague as well, I couldn’t even wait in the empty waiting room. When I asked what medication they had prescribed, the response was he can take some paracetamol! Some deadly virus.

    It is worth mentioning my son has a very poor immune system and catches everything that going around. Needless to say he got over it and is now back in work. But, how long for?

    Oh, and he never received the results of the test for this ‘deadly’ virus.

    Am I convinced lock downs are necessary? Not in the slightest.

    • BeebTax
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Thanks for posting that. Just the sort of thing the MSM would not report.

  16. davews
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:19 am | Permalink

    A good analysis of where we are Sir John. I assume you will be voting against the legislation on Wednesday.
    I feel there is a lot of opposition to these latest restrictions, apparently within the cabinet as well. The SAGE predictions really show how incompetent these ‘scientists’ are and as we have already proved lockdowns do nothing to the virus but totally wreck the economy and the life we have enjoyed so much in the past.

  17. Everhopeful
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:21 am | Permalink

    EVERYONE should watch or read Lord Sumption’s speech regarding this whole charade.
    We are being taken for complete mugs!
    And soon, one way or another, we will have NOTHING!
    This can not all be by accident.
    Supposing Hitchens is right and Johnson is actually out of his depth then I think that my (deleted) comment about Rat and Badger taking Toad ( Wind in the Willows) in hand is most apposite.
    I suspect something far more sinister though. Hope I’m wrong.
    What do I know? I’m only a life-long tax payer whose ancestors funded, built and died for this country.

    • steve
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      Everhopeful

      “I suspect something far more sinister though”

      You’d be right to. The SAGE mask is slowly but surely slipping. Johnson is in this up to his neck.

      Empty shelves, people fighting for food, permanent discontent, control of movement via crap electric cars, abolishment of cash…..all set to be the new norm.

    • BeebTax
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      Yes. And both your descendants and mine will be paying for this long after we’re gone.

      • graham1946
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

        That’s normal. We’ve only just paid for WW2 and I believe the Napoleonic wars were only paid for quite recently. We’ve all been paying all or lives for political decisions. Nothing changes.

    • Rat Lines
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:35 am | Permalink

      Supposing Hitchens is right and Johnson is actually out of his depth


      Hitchens knows it is intentional tyranny but he is trying to give them a way out.

      • mary
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

        Rat Lines : BoJo is not pulling his own strings but our Government of Occupation is. The string pullers behind the scenes. But that doesnt absolve BoJo and the “Conservative” (ha !) party from guilt; since they threw Britain to these wolves in the first place.
        Treason under the British constitution and international law.
        I recommend Rodney Atkinson’s Freenations.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

      Nobody needs to take anybody else’s word for it that Boris is way out of his depth. He provides the evidence every time he appears.

      • steve
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

        Lynn

        Not so much being out of his depth…though clearly he is, more a case of him being owned by those having sinister and authoritarian motive. He’s their front man, basically.

    • Christine
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

      Read Klaus Schwab’s (World Economic Forum) vision for our future and it will all make sense.

      We need to fight back against their lies and agenda.

    • M P B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:37 pm | Permalink

      This virus has been in circulation for almost a year. No country or community has suffered the death rate of 4,000 per day relative to size of population. The UK has a 5 year average daily death rate of 1,500 to 1,700 depending on time of year, this is being maintained even with this virus.

      Our PM glibly quotes 4,000 per day without any context.
      It is a statement from a scare mongering fool
      Boris is an opportunist turned buffoon.

      Parliament must present verifiable and reasonable data, medical expert opinion and economic data to the nation to justify its decision.

      The UK has 8 months experience of battle with this unseen enemy which cannot be eliminated. If the Government cannot protect the economy the virus will win.

      Since July this year companies and enterprises have fought a long and hard battle to return to normality, in our shops, wholesalers and factories; hospitality has led the way trying to claw back to normality.

      Our population have responded magnificently with voluntary self isolation amongst the over 60’s and cautious economic reengagement by the remainder of the population, energised to return to work.

      A lockdown of 4 weeks is a severe body blow to “all” the recovery achieved so far.
      More than 4 weeks is a killer blow, especially over the Christmas period.

      Government knows this, yet they persist and ignore reality.

      This war we cannot win needs to be stopped NOW and the nation helped to live with the enemy.

      Start the fight back now!

  18. Pat
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:32 am | Permalink

    I say this reluctantly but many of the comments here arise from a lack of knowledge of the actual situation we are already in.

    A close member of my family works in the ‘hot’ ward of a leading hospital and has no choice but to risk infection by this disease. The hospital is already at breaking point.

    We are on the cusp of better clinical treatments and vaccines for covid in the coming weeks.

    Boris is clearly right to impose lockdown to contain the outbreak and reduce the death toll this winter until we can get these measures in place.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

      Sweden.

    • Ginty
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

      There will be no money left to pay for the NHS after this.

      • graham1946
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

        There’s plenty of money. With all that’s been spent this year it is still only a quarter of what was spent bailing out the banks.

        • Ginty
          Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

          And even that situation didn’t result in our high streets and towns being turned into ghost towns.

    • SM
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

      You will recall that while Jeremy Hunt was Health Secretary, PHE and the NHS were advised to fully prepare for a possible pandemic, but they didn’t.

      For decades, medical services have practiced emergency procedures for major disasters, yet despite recent disease outbreaks in the UK this century, the PHE/NHS grandees did not see fit to follow the pandemic advice, which would also have given other Govt depts a chance to consider the social and economic knock-on effects – why not?

    • steve
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

      Pat

      “Boris is clearly right to impose lockdown to contain the outbreak and reduce the death toll this winter until we can get these measures in place.”

      But it is not lockdown, since schools and universities are allowed to remain open.

      Only the pubs are to close, basically. Why not just say; ‘pubs to close’ ? Why use the word ‘lockdown’ ? Answer – to create another round of greed buying in the supermarkets.

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:31 am | Permalink

        There’s a certain irony in the fact that universities will be allowed to remain open when the mass movement of irresponsible, selfish university students around the country in September might well have been the primary driver behind the ‘second wave’. Perhaps we should allow pubs to stay open but raise the drinking age to 30 at any pub within bike-peddling range of a university.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:27 am | Permalink

        Yes – if schools stay open and the largest sector of spread is secondary school aged children then they will be bringing the virus into their homes to infect their parents who are not allowed t earn a living while being infected.

        Lockdown or don’t but this half-way house is stupefying.

      • Mark B
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

        And people are still flying in from other infected countries !

      • Disaffected Tory
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

        Pat
        I don’t believe anybody doubts that the PMs objective are honourable. The problem is that he is on the wrong path and cannot, because of his shortcomings, change.

    • Alpipp
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:11 am | Permalink

      Am in France. My mother in hospital having chemo. France allows one visitor a day thank goodness. But … REGIONAL HOSPITAL IS NEARLY EMPTY….

      It is all weird…

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

        The test centre near me is largely unused

    • steve
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:14 am | Permalink

      Pat

      “I say this reluctantly but many of the comments here arise from a lack of knowledge of the actual situation we are already in.”

      You underestimate our knowledge, we KNOW we’re being had. We also know we have a PM who is an accessory to sinister political motive.

    • Chris Dark
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      You get something like £140 billion a year from government and you still can’t get “measures in place”? Poppycock. I’m sick of the health services whining. Millions of perfectly healthy humans are being locked down again because of this. And don’t have the nerve to tell posters that they don’t understand the situation….we most certainly do, and a number are scientifically qualified, including myself. Anyone who works in a hospital risks infection; if they don’t like it they can get another job. My own doctor hates sending people to hospital because of the diseases they might pick up. Clean your own stables out!

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:24 pm | Permalink

        £170 billion.

    • Cheshire Girl
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:40 am | Permalink

      Pat:

      Well said, but it wont go down well with a lot of the ‘armchair experts’ on this site.

      Its good to hear from someone who actually has some knowledge of the situation.

      • No longer Anonymous
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

        That’ll be because few of us are seeing evidence of a pandemic in our own lives. Indeed the BMA calls it a syndemic, so why not the BBC or the Government ?

        “The NHS won’t be able to treat other patients.”

        And they stopped treating other patients and killed a lot of them in the last lockdown !

        You can die of anything so long as it is not CV19 and it must be stopped at ALL costs.

        We now realise that ALL means everything that makes life worth living.

    • J Bush
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:26 am | Permalink

      With respect, it is not a disease. It is a virus and in the same family as the common cold.

      Perhaps you could do us the courtesy of naming this hospital, which is at breaking point?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

        Yes I would like to know which hospital is at breaking point, is it because all the others have been mothballed?

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

      It’s not lockdown Pat, it’s no personal/private/family mixing. Some people can work but then can’t play, some people are paid full pay not to work and then are in positions to ask for this to be continued for the rest that aren’t in that situation. That makes me suspicious.

      I agree that we talk from a position with a ‘lack of knowledge’ but whose fault is that exactly? I think it is the NHS and SAGE for covering up information that we are repeatedly asking for to enable us to make our own decisions.

      I know people who went into completely empty A&E departments in April and May – the staff were so busy chatting one man was forgotten about for four hours then told his Doctor shouldn’t have sent him in, his GP sent him to another hospital the next day.

    • Barbara
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

      Pat

      I don’t believe you.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

      What are they doing in a ‘hot ward’ when they should be in one of those very expensive and under / not used Nightingale Hospitals ?????

    • mary
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

      Which hospital is that?

    • mary2
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

      “The hospital is already at breaking point”. Which hospital is that?
      As has been argued ad nauseam, even if a number of hospitals were indeed at breaking point as you say, the point is, do the number of deaths from Covid (the real figure please), justify shutting down the whole country , ruining family life and childrens lives and the quality of life in every way , cancelling cancer treatments , driving people to economic despair, collapsing Western civilisation (no exaggeration), etc etc etc. Is it proportionate?Isn’t the cure worse than the disease? And is there evidence that stuff muzzles etc work ? Why was a Danish study suppressed, revealing the harm done by muzzles?
      We know the Govt has inflated the number of Covid deaths and cases; if they were acting in good faith why should they want to do that?

    • Christine
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

      Hospitals have been at breaking point every Winter for as far back as I can remember. We didn’t shut down the economy every Winter just to save the NHS.

      Why aren’t the Nightingale hospitals being used if we are at breaking point?

      What are these new measures you speak of?

      What are the figures for bed capacity? Where are these published?

      • Fred H
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

        Blair/Brown started the close beds project, and it has been continued ever since. Independent hospitals have done very well as a result. I wonder who owns them?

    • Dave Andrews
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:08 pm | Permalink

      And is it the word on the wards “Probably caught it down the pub”? If so, why are pubs driving up the rate in the North of England, but not South West? That’s unless pubs and their closing will have little effect on the infection, and the rate is generated by other factors which for political reasons the government don’t want to restrict.

  19. Mike B
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

    The new lockdown seems to ignore the data presented last night. In particular the drivers for growth in the virus.
    1 rapid growth of covid in the young drives feed through into older groups
    2 covid infections remained flat after opening of hospitality and none essential retail with growth only kicking off on return of Schools and universities.

    So why close the things which were not driving infections whilst keeping schools and universities open with no action to tackle the spread in these groups meaning it will just continue to burn.

    • Fabian Agenda
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      So why close the things which were not driving infections


      In Orwells 1984 there were no pubs

      • zorro
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:45 am | Permalink

        Of course there was a pub in 1984 where the proles went – have you actually read 1984???

        zorro

      • hefner
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:43 am | Permalink

        But there were ‘drinking-shops’ frequented by ‘proles’ in G.Orwell’s 1984.

  20. Nigl
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:39 am | Permalink

    Being a bit closer to the centre I know Boris is in an impossible situation, damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t, with up to 60 experts all feeding in differing advice, with as we see in the media even more contributing their alleged expertise plus Starmer disgracefully seeking political capital because he knows no more than any one else.

    I and others, almost from day one have steadfastly asked you to publish information as to how and where people got infected, surely that must be a standard test and trace question? Publish this then we can avoid such situations. Why is it not being given out? I can only assume more incompetence. Use this to justify pub closures or allow them to stay open.

    You should insist on supermarkets positioning a security guard at the door insisting masks are worn or not allowed in, at the moment a small percentage do not wear one. Heaven forbid, why not switch traffic police to dealing with Covid. If we don’t sort it there will be no traffic to manage. Equally start fining people. Litter wardens jump on anyone dropping a fag end, isn’t this more important? Indeed reassign them and parking wardens to ‘Covid enforcement’

    Fine people, three strikes and they are out for not giving the correct test and trace information, or responding to phone contact, make showing ID to pubs etc mandatory, no ID no entry

    Garages that have a pay at the pump system should cancel the alternative if paying inside. If people heed other goods insist on a mask or refuse to serve them.

    Fire Dido Harding, the job has proved beyond her. Until you do no one will believe you are serious. Look at Bernard Jenkins’s criticisms, use the military or a similar to deal with the systems from fragmented leadership and departments to language.

    Obviously scale up the moonshot testing, the start up space looks very congested, tough and early choices must be made.

    Finally stop spinning patent rubbish, bodies stored in ice rinks, we don’t believe you indeed frankly I don’t believe much nor from speaking to other people do they.

  21. steve
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:42 am | Permalink

    JR

    “….to protect the vulnerable”

    When you say vulnerable, do you include self-induced morbid obesity and other conditions of poor health where people have abused their own bodies by living a stupid, selfish and glutenous lazy lifestyle ?

    “The advisers rightly warn us….etc”

    Advisers ? Come off it Sir Redwood. They’re a collective of mal-intent, and your leader is in it up to his neck.

    Public buy – in. You have that much right at least. No, we don’t buy it.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:15 am | Permalink

      +1

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:26 am | Permalink

      The advisers show us graphs that say nothing.

      How many tests are done in each of the election areas that they use to decide which tier we are to be in each week? How many in each tier tested CV19+, how many of those required hospital treatment in the following month. Of those in hospital what do they have in common? What age groups, where do the patients think they contracted the virus, were they wearing masks and taking all the precautions, were they working (and in what occupations). This isn’t difficult to provide it will all be recorded surely that is the information they are working on?

    • Fred H
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

      I’m convinced the at risk elderly and vulnerable have been taking care to avoid risk situations all these months.
      Only the foolish risk-takers and the ones exposed negligently (including Care Homes) have caught and sufferd from Covid.
      This Lockdown can only work if the ignorant and foolhardy playing Russian Roulette with lives can be stopped for long enough to make a difference.
      An illegal rave near Bristol had to be forcibly broken up by Police, attendance was about 700! What do we do in dealing with such blatant disregard?

  22. Iain Gill
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:48 am | Permalink

    Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    Article 9. No one shall be subjected to arbitrary arrest, detention or exile.

    Article 13.

    (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
    (2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

    • J Bush
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

      Magna Carta Article 39 – 1 of the few articles which still exists in law.

      “No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land.”

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:29 pm | Permalink

        ‘By the law of the land’ they have imprisonments us all. But is that law legally enacted?

    • Andy
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:12 am | Permalink

      Alas the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is not legally binding.

      What is legally binding is the European Convention on Human Rights – and the Human Rights Act which brings it into British law.

      Mr Redwood’s party wants to scrap it because apparently some of them think it is written just for terrorists. Turns out it is written for you too.

      Who knew that you might one day be demanding protection under human rights law. How awkward.

  23. steve
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

    Only the pubs are to close, basically. Why not just say; ‘pubs to close’ ? Why use the word ‘lockdown’ ? Answer – to create another round of greed buying in the supermarkets and cause empty shelves again.

    If I have to travel extra mileage to acquire bread and other essentials……Johnson will personally be paying my fuel costs.

    • beresford
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:38 am | Permalink

      Why do you say ‘only the pubs (and breweries) are to close’? My understanding is that it is everything other than work/school, home, and food stores (and they would close those if they could). Leisure Centres, Barbers, Cinemas…. all the places where people DON’T catch the virus must close while bizarrely the Premier League apparently continues. Travel (by the hoi polloi) is to be ‘discouraged’. And Gove has just said that they could extend it at the end of November. Something is afoot. Look for Brexit to be cancelled and migrants to start being directly imported on real ferries during this period.

  24. Burning injustice
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:55 am | Permalink

    Sir John

    Boris reluctantly slipped out that there is to be a Parliamentary vote this coming Wednesday. I would very strongly urge you to vote against this madness. Graham Brady’s previous intervention was mere pussy footing around. We need votes against. We are looking to the Tory backbenchers to provide opposition as Labour has been utterly captured by the SAGE narrative.

    • BeebTax
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

      +1

    • Andy
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:46 am | Permalink

      Translation: Labour has listened to the experts.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

        But which ones ???

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

      There won’t be enough as Labour have said they will support it and of course John and his colleagues will sit by and say nothing whilst the SNP, DUP and all the other MPs from outside England almost certainly vote in favour of a lockdown in ENGLAND just as they voted last week in favour of free school meals for ENGLAND.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

        There will be many abstentions. If they can’t win it’s pointless being ‘valiant in defeat’. We are all sick of defeat and we need to find the strategy to win. It will take the nation not the few MPs with a brain.

    • Graham Wheatley
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

      …that’s because a Labour Government would dearly love to keep lockdowns, curfews and anything else that the Soviet bloc used to supress dissent and discussion.

      If they agree to all of this when the tories are in power, it is the Ace up their sleeve. The tories get the boot at the next election (assuming there is actually ever one) and Labour gain power on the back of that….. only the measures will remain. “Not our fault guv, we didn’t introduce them…. but we’re keeping them in-place, sorry”.

      • steve
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

        Graham Wheatley

        “that’s because a Labour Government would dearly love to keep lockdowns, curfews and anything else that the Soviet bloc used to supress dissent and discussion.”

        …….So too does SAGE.

  25. Norman
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    I enjoyed a great breakfast yesterday in an up-market supermarket restaurant in SW England, where there are many retired folk. The mawkish behaviour of people coming in, queuing in the rain, even walking the streets all masked-up, was a pitiful sight. Whilst many of us smell a rat, it’s clear the vast majority are happy to believe the experts. The free world is in self-destruct mode. They will not listen, until its all too late. Yesterday I quoted from the prophet Jeremiah (‘Valiant for truth’ and ‘can a leopard change its spots?’). Today, I will quote him from Lamentations 3:24-26:
    “The Lord is my portion, saith my soul;
    therefore will I hope in him.
    The Lord is good unto them that wait for him,
    to the soul that seeketh him.
    It is good that a man should both hope
    and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord.”
    Hebrews 6:19: “which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;” .

    • L Jones
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

      I smell a rat too. A RAT – A Race Against Time.

      The government has to keep us down and cowed JUST LONG ENOUGH for their vaccine to be produced. Set us free too quickly and we’ll get over-confident and perhaps resistant to the vaccination drive. Keep us banged up and despondent and worried and we’ll welcome it with open arms – then there won’t need to be any mandate or coercion. Far less trouble.

      • Norman
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

        There’s a petition against compulsory vaccination here: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/323442
        It will be argued that, in view of what the control measures have cost the country both in personal sacrifice and finances, refusal is virtually an act of sedition or treason. However, from the perspective of Lord Sumption’s celebrated lecture, it’s the Government which has acted ultra vires. I have been on the other side when dealing with FMD 2001. The battle can only be won by strong, cool, argument, not by emotion or Boris-bashing – which only causes the powers that be to dig their heels in even more.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:36 pm | Permalink

        Stepford wives.

  26. Nivek
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    “What controls do you think are necessary?”

    Controls on government.

    If the Conservative Party leadership sees fit to repeat itself in this manner, then I can only repeat this comment from June:
    “If the first ‘lockdown’ is over, a general election should be called as soon as possible to reaffirm that it is the people who are in charge, and not the politicians.”

    and this one from August:
    “The U.S. presidential election happens to be taking place in 2020, giving Americans the chance to pass judgment on the candidates’ respective positions with regard to the virus. England, meanwhile, will have had practically a full parliamentary term of Mr. Johnson’s ‘pandemic government’, even though the Conservative Party received its mandate before this extraordinary turn of events. I had hoped that, as a point of honour, Mr. Johnson would self-impose a term limit on his personal exercise of the power he has wielded this year, but that does not look like happening.”

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

      I didn’t last time but I shall do so now.

      +1

  27. Sharon
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    I don’t believe there is any point to the lockdown other than knowingly destroy the economy, people’s livelihoods, health and futures.

    It feels like the country is being held to ransom by a mad despot!

    “ If we keep testing, we will find more and more cases to justify our actions. We’ve got it down to a tee, every single test – even on the same person – is a new case; don’t worry if the booked- in patient doesn’t actually get tested, send them a positive result anyway; don’t worry if anyone is actually ill…. it all looks wonderfully dreadful….my precious!”

    Absolute insanity- is it remainers who want to prove that Brexit was a bad idea and shove the country back to post WWII days? Is it the globalists agenda being enacted? China? Big Pharma- after all UK has invested $billions in a the vaccine!

    Someone, is pulling the strings backstage- Whitty and Valance are contradicting themselves since March…just a matter of who is pulling the strings.

    This could be the death knoll for the conservative…and the country!

    • Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      Even when the PM eventually finds the right policy – and it was regional as opposed to national lockdowns – he has allowed himself to be forced to ditch it, in favour of a damaging one-size-fits-all approach.

      …..
      It is all scripted and preplanned.

    • DOM
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      Sometimes the truth is far too difficult to imagine. These bastards are destroying our world and they are enjoying it and not one spineless Tory MP is prepared to stand up and be counted

      • Everhopeful
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

        +1
        Exactly.
        And we are so weak having believed them for so long.

      • James Bertram
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

        Spot on.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

      It feels like the country is being held to ransom by a mad despot!

      Without Parliament and an effective opposition, he seems to be acting like a tyrant that an elected Parliamentarian.

    • DavidJ
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

      All planned; look up the “Great Reset”.

    • Graham Wheatley
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:31 pm | Permalink

      The only other logical explanation is that David Icke was correct and that there are shape shifting lizards amongst us, and they have instructed our world leaders to do all of this, under threat of destroying planet Terra if they do not.

      At the moment I’m rather inclined to believe that scenario more!

      If any one of us had told our friends and colleagues last October that we would be where we are now, they would have called us idiots, nutters, fools, and been calling for us to be admitetd under section.6 of the Mental Health Act.

      I’m also wondering what odds William Hill might have given me on that bet.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

        Where will we be this time next year?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

      I would imagine it is just a matter of following the ££££s and the contacts!

  28. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:59 am | Permalink

    Even when the PM eventually finds the right policy – and it was regional as opposed to national lockdowns – he has allowed himself to be forced to ditch it, in favour of a damaging one-size-fits-all approach.
    Prior to COVID, I had three ‘locals’. One was destroyed by the first lockdown and now shows no signs of life. I visited the second – a country pub/restaurant – on Friday. It probably had enough custom to pay the business’s bills and wages for fifteen staff. Anti-COVID measures were very good. It will now have to close for a month. This morning, I will visit the third, to read my paper and have a coffee or two. It’s in exactly the same position as the second case I mentioned – and will be financially weakened by a further month of inactivity.
    I’m a lifelong Conservative but I am now beyond disgusted by the rank incompetence of the shambolic Johnson government. He needs to retire. There also needs to be a clear-out of the Cabinet, with at least three big names being permanently banished to obscure perches on the back-benches. And there needs to be a clear-out of the Spads, with any Marxists and Anarchists first out through the door.
    Never have we been as badly led as we are today.
    P.S. I suppose the golf courses – a source of fresh air and Vitamin D – will be shut too!

    • Pin high
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:11 am | Permalink

      I agree with that statement
      Yes,golf course will be shut.
      Sign the petition on the government website.
      Shutting a golf course is crazy.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:13 am | Permalink

      Well..WHO will be pleased! Overjoyed even.
      They have a “global strategy” for reducing the abuse of alcohol.
      I think it may include making alcohol less available😷

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

        Yep – golf courses WILL be shut, it seems.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

      The golf course near where I live is packed !! Pretty much has been since this all started. I wonder why ? 😉

  29. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    If I were Nigel Farage I would launch a big recruitment drive tomorrow.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

      Yes..why isn’t he?
      He SHOULD be!

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:58 am | Permalink

      Indeed. Where is he when we need him? Maybe it’s time to give him a chance if he’s around at the next election instead of being afraid a vote for him will let Labour in because of the FPTP system the so called Tory party and Labour have got stitched up between them. After all to vote Tory is to get Labour, albeit lite, anyway.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

        ‘Lite’ – really?

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      Laurence Fox, Nigel, and a few others could easily win an election if the Conservatives and Labour keep up this nonsense.

      • Iain Gill
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:59 pm | Permalink

        I see Nigel has put out a video saying he is starting a new anti lockdown party…

        That will take at least half the Conservative vote in an instant.

        Lets hope he doesnt let the Conservatives keep some seats at the last minute like he did the last time eh.

    • Donna
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

      He’s busy in America at the moment trying to get President Trump re-elected.

      Maybe the week after next …. if we’re lucky.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

      Whilst I like NF, after last time he now reminds me of that nursary song about the, Grand Old Duke of York who had ten thousand men. Hills and all that 😉

      Nah ! I’ll pass this time.

    • margaret howard
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

      Sea-Warrior

      Didn’t he try that at the ballot box and failed miserably?

      Still, his best friend The Donald introduced him at a rally last week as ‘one of the most powerful men in Europe’!

      Not quite sure though which European country would agree with that or want him in their country. None of my European friends have ever heard of him despite him having been married to a German lady.

    • miami.mode
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:35 pm | Permalink

      S_W, you must have spent too long at sea as, based on previous experience, anything Nigel launches will be holed below the waterline before it has time to get properly afloat.

      And before you mention the last EU election, that was obviously an anti-establishment vote that would not be replicated in a General Election.

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 6:18 am | Permalink

        I couldn’t get enough of sea warrioring!!!
        I’m not so sure that NF would ever be able to win a general election. He would, however, be able to scare the big parties by campaigning on a few key issues and putting up a small number of candidates in carefully chosen constituencies. In that way, he might be able to force policy change.

    • Andy
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:15 pm | Permalink

      Why? Is he running short of money again?

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

      Yay!! He has!!!

  30. agricola
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    In answer to your question, they are doing what they are doing to try and save lives with the tools they have available. They are dealing with to an extent with the unknown, the virus they dealt with in January might not be entirely the same virus they are fighting now, they mutate. Your piece today suggests there is a bankers solution, up the interest rate by 1% and restore the balance sheet. I don’t think viruses respond to such box ticking solutions. The fight has not been helped by the totally irresponsible behaviour of relatively small numbers of the population, be they some young and other elements your susceptibilities do not allow you to acknowledge. A friend who runs a business in and around Birmingham and Leicester would put it much more bluntly, but that is direct experience.

    I liken it to a defensive strategy in a war where bold incursions cost lives. The solution is the economic destruction of the enemy such that he cannot wage war or in the present context an effective vaccine. The present is a holding strategy pending such a vaccine.

    Do not fall into the usual political trap of questioning the tactics while failing to offer a fool proof plan A yourself. If you can offer such a plan be prepared for peer scrutiny.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

      There is no fool proof plan.

      Sometimes you can’t beat nature. You can only mitigate by shielding the vulnerable.

  31. Pat
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

    My questions:
    If the first temporary lockdown worked why do we need a second?
    If it didn’t what is the point of a second?
    What do we mean by “worked”?
    Seems to me that flattening the curve has morphed into prolonging the agony, or perhaps putting off the evil day.
    Sometimes bad things must simply be endured and it looks to me like this is one of them

  32. BeebTax
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:15 am | Permalink

    It looks like the government and its advisers would have us live in a permanent lockdown, except for an annual Christmas relaxation. The principal measure of wellbeing would be the number of Covid deaths the experts felt we had avoided through taking these measures. One Covid death avoided would be worth more than a thousand deaths from other causes…

    Let’s get this in proportion. We have a virus that’s a bit worse than ordinary flu for most of us but much worse if you’re in the “vulnerable” category. So, help the vulnerable to self isolate while the rest of us get on with life and in doing so produce the taxes we need to sustain our society and moderate the Covid-related deaths of the vulnerable.

    If you insist I wear a mask in a crowded indoor space then OK. But the only people forced to be in lockdown (if anyone) should be the vulnerable, not the rest of us.

  33. Mary
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    I have just lost a close friend who committed suicide last night.
    He was not entitled to any government help as he was slightly late putting in his tax this year and had lost everything.

    • Norman
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:21 am | Permalink

      How terrible, Mary. So sorry to hear.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

      so sorry to hear that

      my deepest sympathies

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

      Sorry to hear that. So sad. There will be many more like your friend. Of course the politicians, scientists, civil serpents making these decisions and the whole public sector are unaffected carrying on with their 100% salaries and pensions throughout. Total job security. Unlike the wealth creating private sector which is taking 101% of the hit.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

      Oh my god I am sorry to hear that.

      Alexander Johnson and the rest of the government. Are reading this ? Because if you are not then you bloody well should !!!

    • Fred H
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

      That is awful news.
      The Samaritans report suicides in England & Wales were 5370 in 2018, rising to 5691 in 2019. It is known the figures for 2020 will be higher still.

      • Iain Gill
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:01 pm | Permalink

        London Ambulance Service has been tweeting last few days about sharp rise is suicides they are seeing, its going to get a lot worse now.

      • Everhopeful
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

        Will the elite shed any tears over that?
        They have already arranged replacements!

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

      Bless you.

  34. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:18 am | Permalink

    My wife and I sent this response to our Conservative MP:
    “We write to express our total opposition to today’s government diktat announcing another lockdown in England.
    We understand you will be asked to vote in support of this in Parliament next week. We strongly urge you to vote against.
    Supporting such draconian measures will have grave and far reaching consequences for the country, people’s overall health, life expectancy, jobs, the economy and is another step towards an authoritarian state, the like of which we never thought we would see in the UK.

    The restrictions placed on Bolton for so long have already been too onerous.
    The measures taken so far this year in response to CV19 have failed, by the government’s own admission, or further lockdown would not be now sought.

    The government is not listening to voices and advice from scientists and clinicians who take a totally different view to that of the tunnel-visioned SAGE, whilst simultaneously ignoring the destruction of the economy without which there will be no National Covid Service into which the NHS has morphed.
    It is concerning that actions are being taken based on tests which are not an accurate or specific means of detecting CV19 and the daily reported deaths include deaths from any cause, if the deceased had tested positive for CV19 in the previous 28 days.
    There seems no good reason why such statistics should be skewed deliberately to exaggerate the spread and lethality of CV19, but there may well be a bad one.

    It is hard to imagine how a government and Parliament could preside over such a multifaceted disaster in response to a virus which has such a very low actual mortality rate.
    Please remember that, on average, 1700 people die in the UK every day from a multitude of causes.
    We have long held the view, recently expressed by your colleague Chris Green MP, that the ‘cure’ is worse than the disease.

    Once again we urge you to vote against this proposed lockdown which does not have our consent or support.”

  35. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

    Are the Conservatives on some sort of suicide mission?
    A decent majority has been steadily eroded by Remainer refuseniks, complacency, taking the electorate for fools, and now bumbling, fudging and indecision while Labour have finally begun to stir and get their house in order.
    We will soon have an opposition and a golden opportunity to be firm about implementing change has gone begging.
    The final straw will be when Mr Johnson shows himself too cowardly to walk away from the Brexit negotiations and cobbles a ghastly mess of a neither-in-nor-out “deal”.
    It has been agonisingly painful to watch this mediocre cohort self-destruct.
    It appears that anyone who votes Conservative from here onwards will in fact be that very fool they surely take us for.
    If we had a leader with the vision of people such as our host, for example, it would have been a different story, but one foot wrong now with Brexit and it’s over.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

      We must fight for a proper Tory in Downing St.

  36. Fred H
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

    The Commons on Wednesday ‘abandon hope all ye who enter here’.

  37. zorro
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    The massive ranges are as you suggest, JR, are the big red flag in the equation. This is ridiculously modelled guesswork. I remember seeing one where an earnest scientist said that there could be between 5,000 and 100,000 extra deaths. I mean what use is that?

    zorro

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

      Also no data on
      -excess deaths
      -who is going in to ICU with the virus and how are they catching it? If we pinned down in which settings it is spreading, whether multigenerational housing, pubs, supermarkets (clearly not), work, care homes etc. we could honestly say doing this that or the other would stop contagion. Otherwise it’s all guesswork.

  38. Anonymous
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:27 am | Permalink

    Even when the PM eventually finds the right policy – and it was regional as opposed to national lockdowns – he has allowed himself to be forced to ditch it, in favour of a damaging one-size-fits-all approach.

    …..
    It is all scripted and preplanned.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

      +1

  39. MPC
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:30 am | Permalink

    I even doubt there’ll be an impartial inquiry into all this as an evaluation of other approaches that could have worked will be left to one side. Would be tempting for the Chinese to allow the release of another virus in 2024 when both US and UK Elections take place. They are laughing even louder at us this morning.

  40. RichardM
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    One week ago.

    “And I may see there is a bit of incoherence from the Rt Hon Gentleman opposite to attack local lockdowns when he wants to plunge the whole country back into a damaging lockdown for weeks!”

    PMQ’s will be a hoot this week.

  41. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:44 am | Permalink

    The men in grey suits need to get control the Mad Boris and replace him with a Tory who has a functioning brain. It is not ‘Christmas’ that is being cancelled, it is LIFE that is being cancelled.
    If they agree to this madness, Parliament needs to affirm that business must have massive support. They received grants of between £10k and £25k in March for a stated 3 week lockdown, but now they are closing for 4 weeks during their Christmas peak trade period, the profits from which get them through the thin 1st Quarter.
    Businesses need to be no worse off than they would have been had they not been the victim of this mad government. That is the law. Parliament need to quantify the cost and weigh it against a ‘real’ CV19 death rate before supporting this terminal proposal.

  42. Stred
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:53 am | Permalink

    It is well known that education is a primary source of infection and testing already shows that older school children and students have the highest rates of covid. This would not matter because very few suffer bad symptoms , if any. But universities are ordering older staff to return to lecturing and personal contact with students. Some think this is because a student who leaves before the first term is entitled to a refund of fees for the remaining two terms and some are already asking for their money back. They are unable to find part time work in the entertainment industry, which is closed. Older staff and parents and grandparents coming into contact with students and children will inevitably become infected and a proportion will die or be badly affected. Public transport is another source of infection which is staying open. The second wave was forecast in the first report leading to lockdown and it is not possible to reduce it with the present measures.

    On the other hand, from the reports coming from testing and tracking, the shops, pubs and restaurants that are being forced into bankruptcy or saved perhaps by the taxpayer are way down the list of source of infection. The government is acting without logic or care for the people not affected by the virus and no assessment of deaths caused by closing down other treatments and jobs has even been considered, or if it has they have censored the findings.

    The increased cases are likely to be mainly false positives or from people with no illness or infectivity. The numbers are used to justify a lockdown which wil not work anyway. If the numbers turn out to be less than the worst forecast then they will claim that their lockdown has worked. But in truth it will be because the younger parts of the population has reached herd immunity.

    The NHS has always had incompetent management. When the fantastic NHS is given the whole country to manage, this is what we get. This will sink the politicians that failed to find better advice.

    • Stred
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

      This government of incompetent bossy boots really doesn’t like pubs. They will be allowed to sell takeaway food but not alcohol. Let’s really make it impossible to survive this time.

  43. Lifelogic
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    What is the point of a lockdown? More deaths, more economic damage but clearly they see some political advantage in it? They have to be seen to be doing something – however mad and counter productive it is.

  44. Iain Moore
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I am so fed up a ‘saving the NHS’ , did we not clap hard enough last time?

    We knew Covid would rise with the return of schools and universities , that is the source of Covid infections, reportedly in excess of 40% of the total. Hospitality on the other hand in single digits 4-8% , yet Boris is closing down hospitality. What good is that going to do ? In a months time we will still have high Covid rates and wonder why.

    The Covid in tier 3 areas, like Liverpool, are falling , it seems Boris’s nerve failed, with Parliament in recess, and during a weekend, the doom mongers from SAGE got to him and put him in fear of god, so he capitulated.

    Here in the SW we have low levels of Covid , I completely reject the idea we should be put in a lockdown, seemingly we are to be imprisoned for the failures of the NHS . I was disgusted at the spin put on the figures, here it was suggested that we have high rising levels of Covid, which is rubbish for any small increases when you have low levels of Covid will show as large rises. One case and add another is a doubling of it , where as 100 cases and add another is a 1% rise.

    I presume we have been locked down on the 5th November to ensure we can’t stick Boris and SAGE on our bonfires

  45. Fred H
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    So we now face the prospect of the annual Centotaph parade on Sunday 8th being cancelled?

    • Fred H
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:38 pm | Permalink

      Sir John – is it yes or no? Marching at 2m intervals?

  46. Sharon
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    They really are pushing their luck!

    I’ve just opened the Telegraph – Michael Gove now says Lockdown could go on beyond December 2nd!!!!

    Do they have a deathwish?

  47. Simeon
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:22 am | Permalink

    Sir John,

    As ever, alot of talk, but where is the action? Another lockdown is obvious nonsense, yet where we are is exactly where we’d expect to be given the trajectory since March. The only way out of this is an economic collapse and/or a majority of the people waking up and explicitly and openly rising up against the government. At least the former is guaranteed. (I say this, because the destruction of the present, corrupt, state-sanctioned economy that doesn’t work for significant numbers of people, and will be shown not to work dor almost everyone, is a good thing. The collateral damage itself is not to be welcomed – it will be awful – but it is an inevitable consequence.)

    The die has already been cast. It is too late to stop the carnage (primarily economic; the many thousands whose health has and/or will suffer is an indication of the scale of the economic carnage). But as for what comes next, it is not yet too late for you and others to stand on the side of sense and decency. The question is, Will you?

    There is a vote on Wednesday. Of course there are not enough MPs to vote against the government and win. But this is a war that cannot be won in one battle. Neither is it a war that can be won without fighting. You and others have another opportunity to draw the battle lines. Perhaps the public will respond to politicians standing up to a government that is clueless and hopeless. Perhaps this would be a wake up call to many. The alternative is to carry on doing nothing.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

      The alternative is to resign en masse and force bi elections.

  48. BOF
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

    Lckdown. A criminal act against the people.

  49. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink


    One of the more inane justifications for this lock-down was that most of Europe was already locked down.How many more lock-downs can the country survive?

    Our experts have no clue on handling this virus, no plan-B and certainly no ideas on deviating from the ‘New Normal’ vision, put about by some well known people.
    New normal means continuous lock-down restrictions will be in place forever because the virus will be, and our experts have already retreated from fighting it. Instead they make us adjust.

    Very few people really trust the science behind the vaccines being rushed through at breakneck speed, but that will be the next stage of the NEW NORMAL, BUT we should be in no doubt – this won’t resolve anything — Lock-downs will continue until the country is so far in debt that we will never recover.
    This is the intention behind the NWO and the GREAT RESET…! Please do investigate.

    Time to replace SAGE scientists with someone that can actually achieve something.

    Let’s be clear – We are dying as a nation, drip drip, one bit at a time, as the lifeblood of our society is drained away with lock-downs and restrictions…
    Restaurants and other outlets are closing down, and will never have the capital or incentive to start up again — Is the government so blind to the continued, irreversible effects of lock-downs?

    We no longer have any faith in the alleged experts that are ruining our country…!

  50. Anonymous
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

    When you put a circuit breaker back on full power is restored immediately


    lol exactly

  51. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    I don’t want my taxes going towards paying banks interest on the money your government is borrowing for this insanity.

    Tell the chancellor to turn on the printing presses. There is no inflationary difference between printing your own money and borrowing made up money from banks other than usury which makes the banks richer and the taxpayer poorer.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

      Yep he may as well sort out a 24 hour shift. A lot of people prevented from earning their living now need to be maintained at the level they had managed for themselves. We are talking big grants. Actually landlords need rents too – will the Govt service their mortgages and service charges etc.

  52. Anonymous
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    What is the right mix of policy to keep the spread down

    ….
    Abolish the WEF, Davos and Bilderburg.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

      Also the UN

  53. Arthur Wrightiss
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    This lock down won’t affect many people other than be an inconvenience. Companies remain open, work from home if possible, ok to take exercise, schools and nurseries open.
    Unfortunately for some the pubs are closed, nail bars and tattoo parlours closed, betting shops closed. What a shame.
    I will walk and cycle for exercise, go to the shop for food, FaceTime friends and relatives, meet one person at a time in the park, and adjust to the current reality. My parents had it far worse between 1939 and 1945…considerably worse.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

      I disagree.

      Those in work will have to pay punitive taxation to fund the 5 million unemployed.

      1939 – 45 was war against a mechanised military nation, and produced a lot of employment and demand.

      This is producing a lot of unemployment and low demand … exactly the preconditions which CAUSED WW2.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

      So if you own a cafe, a card shop, a hairdresser, your livelihood, TOUGH, thanks.

  54. Alan Paul Joyce
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:32 am | Permalink

    Dear Mr. Redwood,

    ‘The Brexit talks in Brussels could be cancelled if any senior figures test positive’ – reports say.

    Well, it would be so very convenient wouldn’t it? Boris could say talks are at a delicate stage but cannot be progressed, therefore, they will be suspended until Covid is back under control. Clever lawyers bypass the Withdrawal Agreement and both sides agree to extend the transition period in to 2021. Just a thought!

    After all, Boris did say there wouldn’t be a second lockdown…..

  55. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:33 am | Permalink
  56. a bad dream
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:36 am | Permalink

    What controls do you think are necessary?

    ….
    Put Globalists on the extremist watch list. Ban them from travelling to international forums and do not allow them to buy shares in vaccines etc.

  57. Richard416
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    The impression I get is that vested interests are keeping the situation going. The figures are not believable and the restrictions are draconian.

  58. BJC
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

    You’ve already come up with your answer, Sir John! We like our gadgets, so it would be more cost effective to provide us with zonal/hand held/container UV lights (+goggles for safety). Change policy, get the orders in to the likes of Dyson and let’s get this country of ours back to normal.

    p.s. don’t tell the SNP!!!

  59. Enigma
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:45 am | Permalink

    Sweden. Great Barrington Declaration. Lord Sumption. Recovery.
    Time for a new set of leaders and a change of direction … urgently.

  60. Peter from Leeds
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

    It is sad to see Boris listening to the “doomsters” and other “experts” and being prepared to follow a course of action that France (with much higher measured rates) and Germany have just announced. We voted for our country to be independent and build on its skills (proved by building a testing capacity greater than any other European country – from nothing in a few months).

    The graphs of the R rate showed it was coming down.

    Disappointed of Leeds.

  61. Nutrient Dense
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    How about switching the focus to obesity and diabetes – 2 major risk factors for Covid19. Let’s see the statistics and graphs on the news each night – the costs, the deaths and the related amputations. That should shock. What is the plan to deal with this epidemic?

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

      “Save the NHS. Lose Weight”

      Should have been the mantra for the last 8 months.

  62. Stephen Reay
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:54 am | Permalink

    Just shear madness to do this again. It’s the general public who will suffer the most, not those who are making these decisions. Young and old will lose their jobs, businessess and homes. Occupational pension schemes may collapse, those retired who are not in reciept of their state pension will have nothing.

    The conservatives will suffer the price as the next election as a result, mind you labour would have probably done worse and Boris is damed if he does and damed if he doesn’t . This crisis needs a brave prime minister. Governments are falling into group think , what one does they all follow. It will be a brave prime minister who breaks the mould and takes a difficult but different path forward.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

      You mean like Trump?

  63. Jiminyjim
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:55 am | Permalink

    It is quite literally terrifying that Youtube has chosen to censor Dr Mike Yeadon, one of the few hugely qualified voices of reason on this topic.
    Sir John, you are saying all the right things but the future of our country depends on you and enough MPs with backbone and brains bringing this complete lunacy to an end and remove this worse than useless PM.
    Can I suggest as a starting point insisting that the rate of total deaths is reported daily and compared with recent history, that the word ‘Case’ is banned and that the CAUSES of deaths are reported. The most important thing of all and probably the things for which Mike Yeadon has been censored, is his statement that if we have a killer virus at loose in the country, that HAS to appear in the total number of deaths. If it doesn’t (and it hasn’t since June) we are being lied to and you MPs absolutely MUST remove the liars, whether Ministers or ‘Experts’.

    • James Bertram
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

      Top post, JJ.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

      Yes, let’s get the truth, facts, I’m sick of ‘projections which are not predictions’.

  64. ukretired123
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:57 am | Permalink

    There are some of us who look after ourselves and respect our bodies but sadly many who do not for various reasons lockdown or not. Health is more important than wealth. However I was asked years ago why training in industry (that’s when we had industry in every sense) was so poor by a senior Army officer I replied, after some basic thinking that “Their lives don’t depend on it” compared to the Forces.
    Over time that has changed and now many people’s lives have become more and more dependent on their specialised livelihoods……
    The Training is now an industry itself due to this change especially since so-called “Higher Education” has lost its ability to provide this fast moving and changing demand.

    • ukretired123
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:06 am | Permalink

      Hence the need to protect the livelihoods is also of paramount importance – which the experts miss completely and needs SJR to keep campaigning for.

  65. Andy
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Even before the incompetent blonde oaf spoke yesterday he had done the most appalling thing. He had welcomed Steve Baker to Downing Street to explain the data.

    Baker is a backbench MP – not even particularly popular in his own constituency. He represents a small fringe on the hard right who have negligible public support. He was briefly a minister – and was not very good at it. He has no experience of health issues.

    At a time of national crisis this prime minister is managing his own party. Most of us did not vote for you at all. 58% rejected the Conservatives at the last election – and you are running roughshod over the rest of us. Johnson needs to be inviting in Starmer and Sturgeon and Davey and Lucas because they represent the majority of people in this country. Steve Baker does not.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:06 pm | Permalink

      Were you ever a Tory voter ?

      I refuse to believe it.

  66. jim
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

    The solution is in your own hands Sir John.

    Present credible data and a good argument to your colleagues in Parliament and get this lockdown voted down.

    If your data is weak and your arguments facile then you will have to put up with the lockdown like the rest of us.

    • beresford
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:31 am | Permalink

      Since the Opposition have been crying out for a lockdown for weeks and a number of Conservative MPs are lobby-fodder that might be a bit difficult. A more realistic aim would be to try to get fitness facilities excluded for reasons discussed elsewhere.

    • Iain Gill
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

      doesnt work like that, sadly too many MP’s seek favours from the government so will tend to support the government

      too many MP’s have not even got a good secondary school science education

      etc

    • rose
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

      “If your data is weak and your arguments facile then you will have to put up with the lockdown like the rest of us.”

      Irrelevant snidery because the Opposition will vote with the government. They won’t be doing their usual abstention.

    • Christine Marland
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

      Sounds good advice from Jim.

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:11 pm | Permalink

      There won’t be enough Jim as unfortunately the SNP and DUP and all those other interfering MPs from outside England will almost certainly vote in favour of the lockdown in England. Ain’t democracy great?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

      The credible data, and studies from countries across the globe are what inform logic that effective action is needed.

      Unfortunately a lockdown is the only tool left in the box for this government now, having failed either to organise the authorities or to persuade the public to adopt other measures.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:04 pm | Permalink

        Because the public know you’re liars.

        If this were a pandemic we wouldn’t need fines to keep us in.

        Not once have you called this what it is – a syndemic.

        You lost all the votes and so you’re using this to get your power back .

      • Edward2
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

        Like nearly all EU nations.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

      They often win the argument but lose the vote. It’s a reflection of the quality of the ‘cattle on the premises’.

  67. majorfrustration
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Why should I get my news from Peston – Boris is a coward

  68. Stephen J
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:01 am | Permalink

    What controls do we need Sir John?

    We need to start to “lock up**” some of the extremists that seem to have infested our permanent state, along with international/multinational business and politicians.

    **(Hypothetically obviously).

    Either that, or ensure that Jo Biden wins and Brexit fails…

    Then, watch Covid-19 disappear, like the previous “project fear” exercises eventually did.

  69. David Magauran
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:23 am | Permalink

    One wonders if the people in the north had bothered to follow the rules would we in the south have to be punished with this coming lockdown. Boris must be so tired that he is probably unable to critically question the ‘experts’ who produce worst case scenarios. Critical questioning would reveal the con that is being foisted on him and us. There was a very good article in the Spectator a few days ago that revealed that very few hospitals, if any, were actually critically overloaded. This is project fear all over again.

  70. JohnE
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:32 am | Permalink

    Can we do a deal – once the Brexit talks are over you will kick him out, won’t you?

  71. a-tracy
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:35 am | Permalink

    Has the government insisted all people coming into the UK from today come with a negative covid test, that they have to have a certificate for as taken within 72 hours of the flight? If not why not?

    We have virtually been on lockdown since March, yet Boris wanted to allow his family and everyone to go off to spend their money on their European holidays and bring back another dose of virus. What % of the public that went off on holiday are the source of the infections? Surely the hospital admissions have been thoroughly profiled? If not why not? I read 80% are a variation of the Spanish CV19 infection, something stinks 😷 and a mask isn’t covering it up.

  72. Pat
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:38 am | Permalink

    Steve

    I take your point about schools and universities remaining open. But I believe that lockdown action is required now considering the situation we already face in many hospitals.

    Regarding the economics of partial or complete lockdown, I would query why so many public sector employees have been fully remunerated when not working, unlike the private sector, or have even seen pay increases.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:21 pm | Permalink

      Which hospitals? JR can you confirm if there are any hospitals anywhere near full?

  73. a-tracy
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:40 am | Permalink

    If the NHS profilers aren’t up to the job then use the police and special forces profilers to get to the bottom of why every person that is in hospital right now caught the disease, and make sure their contact groups are the ones tested immediately, are the families of hospital workers tested regularly. I know nurses who are very hardy, their immune systems are fantastic, if they have the virus they could be asymptomatic but super-spreaders has any modelling been done of this?

    How has China got over this? Did they stop flights inbound or is everyone flying in tested and quarantined? How has it not flared up again? Did it spread Country wide out of Wuhan or was it contained? Did they not allow crossover of their people into other territories? Have they got the vaccine/treatment for this virus just for their own use?

  74. DennisA
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:45 am | Permalink

    The hospitals were never overwhelmed at the peak. It is difficult to see the current situation as a second wave, it was always going to be the case that there would be a recurrence, until there has been sufficient exposure for naturally acquired immunity to be more widespread. The main epidemic was over in May, this is the sting in the tail.

    At the moment, mortality is way down from its peak in April and May, the trajectory of hospitalisations is much more shallow than at the peak, when nationally the total number in hospital was just under 20,000 according to the Government data hub, which was not quite 12% of total NHS beds. As general admissions were way down, whilst individual hospitals would have had more problems than others, where was the crisis?

    In 2017-18 winter, there was 99% occupancy because of a flu surge. The country was not locked down, the populace was unmasked, there were no nightly doomfests on TV news.

    Currently there are 11,000 covid patients according to the same government source, six and a half percent of total NHS beds in the UK. Current UK mortality to date from Covid as recorded, is 0.068% of the population. The Nightingale hospitals were largely unused. In Wales, only the Principality Stadium in Cardiff, out of 17 created facilities, saw any patients, just 46 and it was closed in June. Total cost just in Wales was £166 million, £3.6 million per patient.

    The lockdown made no difference the first time, it will make no difference this time and the graph curves already look to be turning over. The government has made a crisis out of a drama.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

      The Nightingales are near useless.

      This is because the Pandemic is described as a Pandemic (quite dishonestly) when it is, in fact, a Syndemic – per the BMA.

      A disease which kills if another illness is present.

      The vast majority of CV-19 patients who need hospitalisation have known comorbidities which the Nightingales are not equipped to treat. They were build when we thought that CV-19 would hospitalise everyone who came in contact with it. And ventilators turned out to be the wrong equipment too.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

        The Government didn’t even have the guts to say “Save the NHS. Lose weight.”

        People with obesity have had 8 months to get their weight down and those with type 2 diabetes get their diets right.

        Instead the Government closed the gyms and made the well live unhealthily. Many people I know have piled on the weight.

  75. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:55 am | Permalink

    Why a lockdown

    In simple terms: Because not enough people are doing what they have been advised to do.

    Because this virus is different to most other virus, because you are infectious before you get symptoms, and not enough people seem to understand this.

    That hospital admissions and possible deaths follow some weeks after the infection rate is recorded, thus it is no good quoting the present death rate and acting on that, and not enough people seem to understand this

    Yes the government has made some mistakes in the first phase by not acting fast enough in closing entry at airports and ports etc, and so called self isolation was not policed, but at the time many countries around the World made the similar mistakes.

    It is not Government that is spreading this virus around, it is the people for goodness sake.

    Do I want a lockdown, absolutely not, do I want businesses to shut down, absolutely not, do I want hospitals overwhelmed and not being able to function properly, absolutely not, but if people will not do as they are told/advised, then what other choice do the government have but to put some rules in place.

    Perhaps someone here needs to be honest and put a price on the cost of a life in all age groups.
    Because that is the calculation which needs to be done in reality, then someone needs to make decisions and play God.
    Best of luck with that ! !

    Do I buy into the suggestion that all of this is a deliberate attempt by the Government to simply control people forever as some sort of secret Policy, absolutely not, that in my opinion is just a ridiculous suggestion by those who have no answer the problem themselves.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

      Another case of shocking management of timing, Information, Policy and PR by the Government again John.

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 6:13 am | Permalink

        Indeed. It couldn’t even start the press conference on time.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:57 pm | Permalink

      You’re wrong.

      So what makes you think people are going to behave any better this time ?

      And what do you suggest happens to them if they don’t ? Shoot them so that they don’t die of CV-19 ???

      Why don’t you just accept it ?

      The British people (for a variety of reasons and most of them good) are un-lock-down-able.

      Shield the vulnerable (but only if they want it.)

    • James Bertram
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

      ‘that in my opinion is just a ridiculous suggestion by those who have no answer the problem themselves.’
      Sweden.
      The Great Barrington Declaration.

  76. MikeP
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:57 am | Permalink

    Perhaps we should be guided by the evidence of what people have done during restriction to date, as there’s no point in imposing controls that so many will flout. People have continued to exercise their right to:
    – demonstrate (lawfully but with varying levels of policing response)
    – have religious meetings and assemblies (though some were outdoors, against the law)
    – form their own view on the reasonableness of Government analysis and restrictions and expressed their views to their representatives.
    Outside of their legal rights, they’ve also:
    – visited friends and families when they should not have
    – taken personal risks to attend parties and raves (that, if found, have been broken up)
    – not worn masks or kept their distance.
    The weak link in all of these initiatives is human behaviour, we’re free spirits by design and perhaps the younger you are the more likely to flout the law? That said, as a pensioner I want to be able to choose how I live my final years, in agreement with my family; no one wants to be denied life’s basic freedoms and personally I’ve found the policies easy to work to, taking advantage of the hospitality sector literally scores of times since 4th July to do my bit for the economy while enjoying myself too.

    I’m reading that excess mortality has for some weeks been no different to previous years so with new additional NHS capacity I fail to see what the problem is in allowing society and the economy to function more openly. I’m also hearing that the tests are woefully unreliable – with over 90% false positives – but seem to be driving the advisers’ charts and hence Government policy. This HAS to change, it is totally unacceptable for charts and statistics to be used when we know they’re riddled with errors.
    So perhaps the very vulnerable should continue to be shielded and cared for but the rest of us crack on and keep the economy going as in Sweden. Yes it’s a risk for some but when was life risk-free?

  77. William Long
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    It was clear from the width of the blue ‘Projection’ in yesterday’s charts that the figures used are pretty well guesswork. It was also clear that some areas are very much worse than others so how can a ‘One size fits all’ Lockdown be the best way to proceed?
    I live in the South west where there is still a very low incidence of the virus, but we are told it is growing fast here so even at the low level the NHS may not be able to cope. If that is so, why has the NHS locally done nothing to prepare for a local upturn? After all it has been warned about it for long enough.
    By behaving like Big Brother this Government has removed from the public any virtue there might be in behaving sensible in a public spirited manner: many people now only follow the rules because they have to and do so reluctantly with great sympathy for those who break them. Noone wants to get this virus or to pass it on to others, and given sensible rules people will obey them, with sanctions available against those who mindlessly flout them. The Tiered system had the advantage of some common sense behind it and was widely accepted except by grandstanding local politicians. It should be persisted with and someone else put in charge of the NHS who is capable of ensuring that local Health Authorities do what is necessary to prepare in time for deteriorating conditions in their areas.
    I think you and your Conservative colleagues can best serve the public by voting against the Government on Wednesday.

  78. MWB
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:05 am | Permalink

    Now that you London people are going to be put into lockdown, The support money that was denied to Manchester, has miraculously been found. Truly miraculous.

    Be careful, you might need our votes in future.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

      MWB the way it’s going they won’t even get ours let alone yours.

    • Alan Jutson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

      MWB

      The money has not been found, it has been borrowed in all of the taxpayers names (Nationwide) and the next couple of generations (Nationwide) will pay for it.

      Absolutely nothing to do with London or anywhere else !

      • MWB
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

        Nonsense !!

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

      Amazing isn’t it? Business that is closed down can’t live on £3k per month. Needs serious uplift.

  79. Andrew Potts
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:08 am | Permalink

    This Government is out of control. It is recklessly destroying society, economy, and liberty. The health collateral damage is immense. It is so invested in the lockdown approach and so drunk on power that it is incapable of balanced and rational action. It will only be brought under control by the people defying its authoritarian edicts. Conservative MPs need to stand up for liberty before it is too late.

  80. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    This situation is absolutely pathetic.
    We were told that we would get the new Churchill, who would lead us out to face the enemy and fight back for Britain with stern resolve.
    So what do we get?
    Some sort of people’s support teddy bear who runs up the white flag and bids us, literally, go back to our boxes to snivel and sniff, um, if that’s okay with you liberals who despise both our nation and economic progress?
    Talking of “um”, Mr Johnson’s medical wingman must have said “er” well over 200 times yesterday while his exposition was further muddied by some appalling charts that actually reminded me of when you buy an electronic device and suddenly discover that only about 40% of the instructions apply to the actual model in your hands because the cheapskates have written a “one size fits all” version for the entire range.
    If that’s, er, okay with all of you.

  81. glen cullen
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:12 am | Permalink

    The vast majority tested with the virus don’t have any symptoms or they’re very mild and only affect the over 60s

    No real difference in excess annual death rate over 5 years

    The vast majority fully recover

    I’ve absolutely no idea way this government wants a lockdown or circuit break

    There’s no rhyme or reason

  82. Original Richard
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    “What is the point of a lockdown?”

    The PM in his speech yesterday said :

    “Because the huge exponential growth in the number of patients – by no means all of them elderly, by the way – would mean that doctors and nurses would be forced to choose which patients to treat.”

    But there was no graph or chart to show Covid-19 hospital admissions or deaths by age to quantify this statement.

    There never has been and neither is this data ever shown on the BBC news.

    Nor were there any graphs/chart to show hospital admissions and deaths in previous years from influenza and other respiratory diseases and to compare them with this year’s Covid-19 cases and influenza cases.

    We know that every winter the NHS comes under severe pressure from the admissions and deaths of elderly people suffering from respiratory diseases because of a shortage of beds and staff.

    So the current lockdown is, as the PM said, “to protect the NHS”, and thence the government who would be absolutely vilified and torn to shreds by the left wing media if there was ever a sniff of any single hospital in the UK becoming overloaded.

    This the reason for the lockdown which will severely damage the economy and the livelihoods of many young people.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

      Elderly people in the U.K. suffer respiratory diseases in winter because they are home all day and energy is so expensive NOBODY can afford to keep their home warm day and night. Younger people go off to work and enjoy the warmth provided by their employers.
      We need cheap energy! Scrap the wind farms!

  83. dudley
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    Lockdowns are necessary in order to condition people to be ready for the next step ‘curfew’ which is coming down the tracks when the full import of the brexit talks debacle dawns- ie. when the queues start to form and the supermarket shelves are bare- and if you don’t believe me then just ask the master strategist Dom Cummings- and so that’s why circuit breakers are necessary to allow the police and troops get into place to take up position- so print that.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

      They are gently warning the children that Santa will be under curfew and not able to visit after dark. Anybody spotting the sleigh and hearing jingle bells under cover of darkness should contact the local boys in blue (ring 999) – no matter what the hour.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

      There will be no shortages due to Brexit.

  84. A.Sedgwick
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    The politically untouchable NHS is the root cause building up over decades into a monolith totally unrecognisable from the basic objectives of Beveridge. Treatments have encouraged many to ignore looking after their own wellbeing.

    Pre CV it was functioning way over its capacity thanks to the inflated expectations by the public fuelled by successive governments culminating in the Stalinesque clapping.

    Numerous procedures have a charge, most obviously dentistry, most new dentists shun the NHS. When a brave surgeon declares he will not operate on the obese he is quickly brought into line. Family Doctors via BMA nearly capsized its birth and the unwieldy self employed system persists and has “surgeries” open at best five days a week. Private hospitals are now non CV NHS.>

    The perfect storm of third rate(at best) Cabinet, the curse of experts over common sense and CV have exposed the frailties and anomalies of the unsustainable NHS. There was no way the NHS could handle normal business and a pandemic so it became the CHS, helped by project fear to keep new patients away. Now the stats are showing the missing seriously at risk new patients – the answer another more severe lockdown to delay the spread and encourage new patients to get into the tortuous system. Elementary if people are under house arrest the spread will stop until they are parolled.

    Throughout this charade the truth has been ignored in favour of “next slide please”. There was an opportunity to come clean as above and say the NHS has to change but like someone driving in fog the cabal kept on into the mire with financial consequences that may well see that change.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:39 pm | Permalink

      Absolutely right. And the NHS is so enormous that it can capsize any boat.

  85. AndyC
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:25 am | Permalink

    Any MP voting for this madness on Wednesday is voting for the destruction of our economy, civil liberties and very way of life. I neither agree with nor consent to this fascism.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:40 pm | Permalink

      Any MP voting for this madness needs to know that he is surrendering his seat, regardless of party.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

        In the case of Tories about 150 MPs are in serious risk of losing the next election. Look at the swings required, and how they got elected last time.
        Boris was going to be wonderful, exit EU, HS2 would be scrapped, immigration dealt with, economy lifted, Corbyn in the wings…

  86. beresford
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:27 am | Permalink

    Don’t know if you ever visit breitbart.com/europe JR, but there is a heavyweight article by Delingpole today describing the ‘Great Reset’ in the words of some of its advocates. Obviously he deals in sensationalism but if half of what he says is true we need to fight back. Seems odd that the globalist Sky TV are currently running a serialisation of ‘Brave New World’ portraying a Utopian future in which everyone is controlled by a single intelligence, and everyone is happy ‘or else’.

  87. NickC
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:29 am | Permalink

    JR said: “though some argued the peak had been reached at or before the lock down started“.

    Indeed it is just common sense. In the UK, the time between the first lockdown and the peak death rate was 18 days; the mean time between infection and death was 27 days. Therefore the reduction in the rate of deaths after 10th April – at least for 9 days – cannot have been caused by the lockdown.

    In addition there was no inflexion in the death toll graph after the 10th April – for example around 20th – apart from reporting delays. If there had been, it could have indicated that the lockdown had had a secondary effect. That effect was absent.

  88. Aaron Shone
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:31 am | Permalink

    Hi sir John, I’m assuming we can still ‘do what is best for our families’ during this current lockdown, as Dominic Cummings did in the last one, visit family, go for day trips etc. So really, it’s not going to be much of a lockdown.
    And of course, schools and universities are not locked down, only businesses. So in circuit breaker terms, there is still a path for the current to flow to earth and give you a shock.

    I think the policy the government should adopt is to stop treating people like cattle, and let them decide for themselves what the risks are. The risk seems to be, if you conduct activities that increase the possibility of getting an infectious disease, you will have to rely on the nhs to support you. Mitigation at this point is well understood, there has been plenty of government guidance on the subject.

    It’s the same calculation as driving in a car, only the PM has listened to people saying that the only way to reduce road traffic accidents is to block all vehicles using the roads. Proportionate? No.
    It’s an infectious disease that targets the lungs. Let’s ban smoking too, and save the NHS. What next, closing petrol stations so people can’t drive anywhere?

    Let the people decide on the risks they take. Let business decide to open or close based on the risk. Government can focus on ensuring staff and employees are not forced to work in unsafe conditions rather than focussing on trying to herd cats in a direction they don’t want to go.

    I’m still not clear what the failing was with regional lockdowns? The exit criteria for these lockdowns are unclear, and seem disproportionate. The first lockdown was in response to the unknown and it had my support. 6 months later, and the best the British government can do is repeat what didn’t really work 6 months ago? This smacks of hubris and ineptitude, and I would hope our more intelligent politicians tell the government that this continual rule by decree and constantly changing policy response is unacceptable.

  89. James Bertram
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:36 am | Permalink

    I shall be writing to my MP that if she supports lockdown by voting for it, or abstaining, on Wednesday then I will organise a local campaign to starve her party of local funding, and of local promotion and publicity. This will involve disinvestment in, and boycott of the products of, her personal business interests; of all of her local party funders; of all businesses which provide her a platform for publicity/promotion; of of all local media outlets that promote her and her government lockdown policies (by writing to and boycotting the products of that outlet’s advertisers). I shall copy this to her Party Chairman.

    In other words, I will make sure that my MP is accountable for her decision on Wednesday; and if she votes (or abstains) for this ludicrous and totally disproportionate lockdown, one that Dr Mike Yeadon has described as without scientific basis and part of a government fraud, one that destroys so many livelihoods, resulting in mental illness and suicide, then she and her local party must suffer the consequences.

    • a bad dream
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:25 pm | Permalink

      I shall be writing to my MP that if she supports lockdown by voting for it, or abstaining, on Wednesday then I will organise a local campaign to starve her party of local funding, and of local promotion and publicity.


      There will be no more elections

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

      Quite right. They must feel the pain.

  90. NickC
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:38 am | Permalink

    JR asked: “What controls do you think are necessary?”

    None.

    If by “controls” you mean government management of people’s daily lives, and of the NHS.

  91. Mark Marksson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:46 am | Permalink

    It should be clear by now to even the most cowardly of panickers that this is going to blow up in the government’s face, catastrophically. The lockdown policy was introduced in panic, when it was obvious to anyone thinking calmly and rationally that lockdowns only push the issue down the road, while massively increasing the overall damage. As indeed we are now having confirmed for us, and will have repeatedly confirmed until we stop doing it.

    Lives are being destroyed, and future poverty and misery manufactured, every day this panic response continues.

    So actual conservatives have a problem. At the moment, they will get the blame because this government, which believes in very little that actual conservatives believe in, is called “Conservative”. Actual conservatives would never have dreamed of implementing such a radical, experimental policy of massive government intrusion, merely at the say so of mostly leftist scientist “experts”.

    So unless actual conservatives abandon the pseudo-conservatives in office, soon and loudly, it will be conservatism that will be wrongly blamed and swept away, and the unworthy beneficiaries will be the Labour Party that was always even more enthusiastic about these NHS-worshipping panic policies of centralised government intervention and control. Or whatever replaces the Labour Party, as radicalism sweeps the country in the economic misery to come

    Do something, fast, or this disastrous result will be baked in and conservatism will be doomed for a generation. Again.

  92. Reaction Harry
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:47 am | Permalink

    JR asks “what controls are necessary?”

    Answer :
    1. self-control – by an informed population whose government gives them the facts and explains them in a neutral way. People can then take reponsibility for their own decisions. eg if you over-eat and under-exercise, you’ll die early but that’s your decision.
    2. appropriate health and safety controls over necessary services such as food shops.
    3. appropriate penalties for people and businesses that harm others by negligent action (such as not quarantining when unwell).

    The nanny state is part of the problem. As the much-despised President Trump said, the cure must not become worse than the disease and this is what has happened in the UK. It is gin clear that our government is composed of powe-mad incompetents so the only way forward is to trust the people to take responsibility for themselves.

  93. RichardP
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:49 am | Permalink

    Does Parliament govern Britain or is it now SAGE and Imperial College?

    MPs should take back control this week, before it’s too late.

  94. Christine
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:52 am | Permalink

    Analysing the latest ONS weekly death figures for England and Wales:

    Influenza and pneumonia mentions = 1,268
    Influenza and pneumonia mentions 5-year average = 1,678
    A DROP OF 410
    Deaths with COVID = 670

    Any death from Influenza and pneumonia that mentions COVID on the death certificate is classed as a COVID death.

    Total deaths = 10,534
    5-year average = 9,865
    AN INCREASE OF 669 DEATHS.

    We need to understand why deaths from non-respiratory causes are increased. Is this due to increased suicides and others ailments not being treated?

    WHAT IS THE UNINTENTIONAL COST OF LOCKDOWN?

    We need politicians’ to understand these figures and not to be blinkered in only seeing COVID cases.

  95. Everhopeful
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    So when will Johnson cave in “accidentally on purpose” to the teaching unions and shut the schools again? Buy them off with another pay rise? Pay rises = acquiescence/obedience/silence don’t they?
    Many suspect that the long term aim is for all education to be online.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      I think that the immediate danger is that the government will give up on the exam schedule and let teachers dole out top marks to all in their class, including the goldfish. Williamson needs to make clear that A-level mocks will be held in the New Year, to a common standard, with papers marked by teachers, who have to force-rank their pupils, so that there are objective measures to fall back on if the A-level finals can’t take place on time. This simple discipline will ensure that our sixth formers STUDY, and teachers TEACH, should formal schooling be disrupted again.

  96. Barbara
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

    From Oct 12

    “WHO backtracks on coronavirus lockdown advice… as Boris Johnson enforces tough new rules

    THE World Health Organisation (WHO) has performed a dramatic U-turn by backtracking on major coronavirus advice and condemning national lockdowns – just as Boris Johnson enforces strict new rules on COVID-19 hotspots in England…

    Dr David Nabarro, the WHO’s special envoy on COVID-19, has urged world leaders to stop “using lockdowns as your primary control method” of the global health crisis. He warned the only thing lockdowns achieve is poverty – with no mention of the potential lives they can save. The expert said: “Lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer.

    We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus.

    “The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1346848/coronavirus-news-who-lockdown-advice-boris-johnson-three-tier-lockdown-latest

    Yet on we go …

    • Barbara
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

      Oh, and by the way:

      The Head of the Health Emergencies Program at the WHO has basically confirmed an Infection Fatality Rate of 0.14% (approximately the same as the seasonal flu). The latest survival rate estimates from the Centre for Disease Control :

      Age 0-19 ….. 99.997%
      Age 20-49 … 99.98%
      Age 50-69 … 99.5%
      Age 70+ …… 94.6%

      We are being lied to, on a massive scale.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:51 pm | Permalink

        I listened to a Dr in Liverpool hospital on BBC 6pm news.
        He said 400 Covid patients in there, one third of all beds.
        He should report back on the exact same 400, weekly updates.
        Alive count, died count, discharged count.

  97. Donna
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

    It’s so Boris can get the headline he craves:

    “Boris Saves Christmas”

    And never mind that he will have destroyed thousands more private businesses and ruined Christmas for millions who will be driven into poverty for a decade or longer….. or whose family member suffers from mental health problems for the rest of their life or worse, commits suicide.

    I’m ashamed that I changed the policy of two decades and, when Nigel withdrew candidates, held my nose and voted Conservative. That will NEVER happen again …. under any circumstances.

  98. JayGee
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    This Prime Minister, this government and the current members of his benches (front, back and sideways) have destroyed everything I have ever believed in and worked to achieve. You’ve all done it in such a short space of time too. It won’t make one iota of a difference what anyone says to you about this lockdown or the next, there’s no indiction that anyone listens to or hears the opinions of others. We live now in a dictatorship. I want out.

  99. Ian @Barkham
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

    We have never been this way before, there is absolutely no previous experience to base things on.

    However, as a Virologist pointed out on the BBC of all places. There is no point to this Lock-Down if we follow the pattern of the previous one. The lock down will temporarily pause things and reduce the spread. As soon as we open up again we get to import the virus once more. Meaning there has to be another follow up Lock-Down. The illustration of places getting right so far is South East Asia, along with Australia and New Zealand, there lock-downs were followed by stringent border controls. Then any leakage was stamped on by the local lock down.

    An illustration of how this is not to difficult to sort out is that travelers to Hong Kong from the UK are required to get a test at Heathrow and a certificate of being all clear before boarding the flight. Given the technology exists all those wishing to move around should be willing to take this discipline on board. After this enforced house arrest a follow up of requiring all those entering the country to ‘have’ been tested before embarking, then tested on arrival and again before they leave the point of entry. As with elsewhere there should also be the statuary 14day isolation period. Some might see this as a inconvenience, shame on them, why should a whole country be on house arrest through the fault of those that are inconsiderate.

    The Government needs to get serious if its aim is to get the Country moving and prosperous once more. From now on in it will shear neglect to pander and appease the few as this time there is a proven remedy in existence. The virus leaks into the country by neglect of the authorities.

  100. JoolsB
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

    One size fits all makes absolutely no sense. Could it be because London was about to go into tier three? The north won’t be happy about that. Meanwhile down here in the far south west where we have had millions of visitors flooding into the county since July, infections are still low. Besides farming, hospitality is our main industry and has been booming but we must shut down anyway because we are told by Johnson the hospitals won’t be able to cope. That should be hospital as we only have one main hospital to cope with the virus should it hit for the whole of Cornwall. No Nightingale hospitals for us. No extra hospitals to be built under the Tories big plan for new ones.

    Could it be because the South West is a Tory stronghold and Johnson’s Government is only interested in chucking money at Labour areas? They take our vote for granted at their peril.

  101. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    Today’s exam question (Law):
    Your mother dies and you are executor of her estate. Her house, in a neighbouring county, is now empty. It is a condition of your buildings insurance that you visit the house on a weekly basis, to check on security and that the heating is working. The government, meanwhile, determines that you mustn’t leave home. Should you:
    (a) Ignore the law, travel to the property – alone, by private car – justifying your trip as ‘work’ and acting in accordance with a contractual obligations of your insurer.
    (b) Impose on your nearby relatives, in their eighties, exposing them to the COVID risk that the government thinks is implicit in your travelling.
    (c) Call on a neighbour, with a young family, to enter the property and risk their laying down the COVID virus inside your home.
    To my mind, the right thing to do is (a) and then prepare for a day in court to see whether ‘public policy’ trumps contract provisions when the ‘public policy’ is written by an ass.

  102. BillM
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

    The rule must be that the “safe” or the less vulnerable among us, go about their daily business while the vulnerable take their best precautions and the very vulnerable, with or without help, lock themselves down.
    It is crazy, the way Boris has capitulated to the theorists in SAFE and PHE while ignoring the real experts in epidemiology, virology and pathology.
    Before he made this dumbfounding decision, did he ask for and receive scientific proof that this policy will work?
    Did he contemplate asking the experts in the Oxford Centre for Evidenced Based Medicine to review the findings of SAFE before announcing his plan to shut down the British economy? And very probably increase the number of deaths among patients requiring urgent cancer, heart, lung and liver treatments? Or is it that such persons can now be considered as ‘collateral damage’?
    What is our country coming to? Boris is doing his very best the help the Conservatives lose the 2024 election and surely, that cannot be acceptable to the current batch of Tory MPs.

  103. Kevin Caudwell
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    Sir John

    I would like to see the government state its recommendations and as you say, clear, measurable metrics.

    Then I would like the people of this country to be trusted to manage themselves accordingly – based on their own assessments, personal situation and responsibilities.

    Instead we’re all being put under house arrest again.

    The British people are not to blame for this virus but we are being punished. I would like to see the government doing something equivalent towards those responsibly for creating / allowing this virus to spread around the world.

    Finally, I would like to “opt out” of the NHS then I would be under no obligation to be put under house arrest to save it.

    Note: I thought the NHS was there to save us when we are unwell but it is clear that in fact it is now our job to suffer in order to save the NHS. I’d like my money back.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

      “Note: I thought the NHS was there to save us when we are unwell but it is clear that in fact it is now our job to suffer in order to save the NHS. I’d like my money back.”

      Wow ! Great point !!!

      They argue that “The NHS will be overwhelmed and nobody will get treatment” yet that is EXACTLY what they did in the last lockdown and two of my friends/colleagues were murdered by that decision. One dying of cancer and the other heart attack whilst on waiting lists while doctors and nurses did silly coordinated dances on TikTok.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:53 pm | Permalink

      I want to opt-out of the NHS too.

  104. rose
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    “What is the point of a lock down?”

    One of the broadcasters had the wit this morning to ask what is the point of a test and trace system if they all get overwhelmed – even Germany’s – and we therefore have to shut down. He asked, is the system itself fit for purpose? Unfortunately, the other party wriggled out of it and he didn’t press the question.

  105. Cuibono
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    After all the personal sacrifice, destruction of personal liberty and economic devastation of the first lockdown, we are now told that we are back to square one. The virus took a look at the lockdown and decided to stick around anyway. So we now know that it was futile, and yet our scientific advisers and their puppet government are forcing a repetition on us. This just won’t wash with the people of this country. There is no popular mandate for this scorched-earth policy. It will plunge the country into absolute misery and poverty. It is being imposed by diktat. Sir John, I very much hope that on Wednesday you will vote against it.

  106. Original Chris
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

    What controls should be in place, you ask.

    The economy and society should be opened up, and the controls Johnson has imposed should be lifted, and the freedoms/rights removed should be restored.

    Those who are very elderly and/or have pre existing serious conditions should be given extra help and medical assistance if they want it, but they should be free to make their own decisions i.e. whether they go out and where, unless it has been demonstrated that they do not have the mental capacity to make informed choices.

    The real experts on COVID have analysed the situation clearly – Heneghan, Barrington Declaration doctors, Ivor Cummins, Dr Michael Yeadon, to name but a few. They have placed an alternative strategy at Johnson’s door. Worth remembering the following: COVID was removed from the High Consequence Infectious Disease category on 19 March 2020, partly due to the relatively low death rates.

    We are not in a pandemic, the rise in COVID is to be expected in the winter months, total deaths from all causes are still significantly lower than the 5 year average for ALL deaths in September (and heading that way for October), and COVID is only 19th on the list of causes of death in September, significantly below flu and pneumonia, and way below deaths from dementia, cardiac conditions and many others. Dementia and cardiac conditions caused over 6 times more deaths each than COVID in September.

    We have to learn to live with COVID, just as we live with flu outbreaks/epidemics. This disease should not be used as a tool to implement The Great Global Reset by stealth. We are supposed to be a free country, not a totalitarian state, and our current leader should be dragged back pdq from his excursions into dictatorship, and held accountable for trashing the economy and livelihoods, and destroying lives and hope.

    • James Bertram
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:15 pm | Permalink

      Well argued, Chris

  107. Roy Grainger
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

    SAGE have given us their projections of how daily deaths will increase if we don’t have a lockdown. They should also give us their projection of how daily deaths will decrease we lock down. Then at the end we can see how closely their models match reality, and if they are very good we will have more confidence in their advice. It is a simple thing to do. But they won’t do it will they ? They only like making predictions that can’t be proved false.

  108. DOM
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

    Antonio Gramsci, the new darling of the Socialist Tories. Hayek, Adam Smith and Friedman dispensed with

    Tory MPs now in bed with the authoritarian Statist and Marxists opposite

    The Tories must be take great pride in their betrayal.

    I hope they feel shame and nausea when they look in the mirror each morning that they have sold this nation down the river

    Silent Tory libertarians can achieve some degree of self respect by standing up and confronting the extremism, bigotry and oppression that is now being rolled out into all areas of the lives of the 87%

  109. Harry
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    The number of Patients in UK hospitals with Covid increased from 5000 to 10000 in a period of 14 days in October. In March the same increase took only 4 days. The current situation is very different.

  110. JoolsB
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom stood in front of a Union Jack flag yesterday evening and declared he is shutting down England. If this is truly the national emergency we are told it is, why is he not taking control of the whole United Kingdom? This virus has shown devolution for what it is – a complete and utter farce. And why John were the SNP and DUP along with windbag Chris Bryant, Rhonda MP allowed to vote in favour of the free school meals for England last week and why do you and your fellow MPs with English seats allow this insult to your constituents to carry on? No doubt these interfering medlars will be allowed to vote on the lockdown for England in the upcoming vote this week.

    So we have the PM of the United Kingdom afraid or unable to dictate policy for the devolved nations but you sit by and do nothing and allow MPs from the devolved nations to dictate policy for England.

    What a pathetic bunch those we elect are. England deserves better.

    • Fedupsoutherner
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:43 pm | Permalink

      +1

  111. glen cullen
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

    UK public transport outside of London is privatised and run under a capitalist economy and risk while UK public transport inside London is state owned and run under a socialist economy with all risk borne by the taxpayer

    Grant Shapps supplying an extra £1.7bn to Transport for London

    All hail new labour

  112. margaret howard
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    JR

    Are you writing this as a fully trained epidemiologist? If not do you base your advice by listening to those experts who share your opinions?

    And if so can you explain to us why countries throughout the globe are risking bankrupting themselves by not following your advice or that of your experts who are obviously not considered to be worth listening to and are generally ignored?

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

      This has gone beyond Covid and is now an issue of whether we live in a democracy or a dictatorship.

      And other Western countries are facing the same questions too.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:02 pm | Permalink

      Is Boris ‘a fully trained epidemiologist? If not has he base his actions on advice given by those experts who share his opinions?
      Why do you think Sweden has so few deaths and don’t you think that we should take note of countries that have not slaughtered the gold goose and exacerbated the death rate in every respect? Or do you think we should blindly follow Mutti.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        You really need to read some more. Sweden has significantly more deaths than its neighbours per 100 thounsans,so I am afraid you will ahave to try again.

      • hefner
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

        As of 01/11/2020, UK 687, Sweden 587, Germany 127 deaths per 1M inhabitants. Aren’t these three figures enough to characterise the quality of the comment above?

  113. George Brooks.
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

    The leak of information from the inner Cabinet meeting clearly indicates that we have a nasty ”Trump style” campaign running through the media and Westminster. They don’t like the Conservative party, hate Boris and were gob-smacked by the result of the last general election. Anything that is decided will be and is regarded and reported to be utterly wrong and the ‘gotcha’ style of interviewing of ministers is designed to thoroughly depress the viewers and drag this country down.

    If we had not had the leak I don’t think there would have been a national lock down. It would more likely to have been more areas under the Tier system and tighter controls in the tiers.

    Yes, a lock down buys you time to implement new systems/controls but then you have to come out to test the effect of such changes. What the country does not need is a depressing chorus of ” it will fail and told you so” from a bunch of destructive editors and commentators before evaluation has even started.

    This virus is fast moving and no one has a crystal ball to predict what will happen next and I am surprised that Boris has been so polite and considerate. He should tell this nasty bunch to sod off and carry on walking this political tightrope which he and his team has been doing successful so far.

  114. Ex-Tory
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    This is no longer about the virus. It is about whether we want to live in a democracy or a dictatorship.

    Use your vote wisely, Sir John, and urge your colleagues to do the same.

  115. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

    In answer to your question, below is the text of an e-mail that I sent to friends on hearing of the PM’s announcement. Sorry, Sir John, the PM and I have parted company.

    “Bloody brilliant

    Just as we are starting to get the number of COVID-19 cases under control, along comes the Prime Minister and slaps on a 4 week lock down starting on November 5th. It’s enough to make you want to blow up the Houses of Parliament. I could govern this country better myself. The daily number of new COVID-19 cases (7 day moving average) was 16372 on 14/!0, 21227 on 21/10 and 22522 on 28/10, so the trend is flattening rapidly.

    What we need to do most of all is establish where and at what type of gathering new COVID-19 cases were most likely have picked up the infection. A sample of at least 1000 new cases should be interviewed every day to determine the gatherings/meetings each has attended between 4 and 10 days previously (this window of a week’s data is centred on the median incubation period of 5.1 days plus a couple of days to analyse a test; it is wide enough to cover more than the 95% confidence interval straddling the median incubation time). Each interview should record for each gathering at least:
    Date, type of gathering, location of gathering, observed/estimated average spacing of individuals, observed/estimated spacing of groups of six.

    Each day’s data should be entered into a spreadsheet AND a database format and made downloadable by anyone. “Follow the science”? No, follow the data and let a thousand flowers bloom. There are many people in this country who have BETTER brains than those who went to Eton and read PPE at Oxford.

    It won’t be long before we can identify those types of gathering that have high transmission rates and no economic value. House to house visits, visits to care homes and religious services will be right up there etc ed. Ban them all sine die and let all economic activity proceed, subject to adequate social spacing. Education does have economic value.

    There are a number of technological things that businesses can do to help themselves make indoor activities safer. John Redwood has championed ventilation systems that take in air at ground level and expel it at ceiling level. My favourite is washable head only PPE Darth Vader style masks to be worn on airlines and collected at the end of the flight. The idea is to raise safe occupancy rates on aircraft to 50%, nearing the break even payload. Come on guys, let’s have your ideas.

    “We’re all in this together”. Oh, no we’re not!! Rich pensioners like ourselves and highly paid public sector employees are actually in pocket while small businesses, the working poor and the self employed have been stuffed out of sight. Let’s at least freeze State Pensions and Benefits for a couple of years and let’s dock the salaries of judges who refuse to sit without a jury and teachers who refuse to teach over the internet (preferably backdated). Then we just might be all in it together.

    Finally, there is a financial issue to be addressed. The UK method of QE is catastrophic. Because of the way it is applied, via pension funds, it has given a 5% bung of substantial proportions to the richest 5% of the population while adding to the State debt to be paid by all of us. The scandal of the UK economy is not the way the poor are treated, it is that the ultra-rich and the wealthier pensioners (ourselves included) have stuffed the working population out of sight. Inflation has not been beaten. It has gone into asset prices, particularly house prices.”

  116. L Jones
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Just read this (from Toby Young) so sorry if I repeat any comment here:

    ”Covid fatalities in the eight US states that didn’t shut down (North and South Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Wyoming and Utah) was lower than in the 42 states that did….. in those US states that didn’t shut down, the healthcare systems weren’t overwhelmed – and nor was Sweden’s. …”

  117. L Jones
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

    Yes, indeed. As the estimable Dr Yeadon says: hiding away from the virus is like hiding from the weather. It’ll still be there when you come out.

  118. Bill B.
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

    He must go. Whether it’s the men in grey suits, or men in white coats, he has to go. Otherwise the Conservative party has no future.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:04 pm | Permalink

      +1 none of us has a future…

  119. hat man
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

    JR, you and your colleagues cannot let this sick man and his wrecking gang stay in office.

    If a lying wife-beater says “I’ll stop beating my wife in four weeks time,” we would not believe him, would we?

  120. David L
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

    Surely it for those who wish to restrict our lives so much to explain their actions, to defend them in debate with other highly qualified people with other opinions, and to allow us to access the views of dissident medics and scientists. Currently only the Daily Mail is allowing non-SAGE views a platform. Social media are removing anti-SAGE posts. The BBC is just a mouthpiece for government edicts and the Labour Party doesn’t question Government policy. Were impact assessments on lockdown carried out by anyone? If so why can’t we see them? If not then it is a major and criminal omission.
    Only Conservative backbenchers can represent the interests of ordinary people now….I never thought I’d be writing that! Please vote against this lockdown, even though I can’t see it being defeated.

  121. Oldwulf
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

    Dear Mr Johnson

    You can say what you want …… but the plebs stopped listening a long time ago.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:10 pm | Permalink

      You got exactly that for which you voted, and what you were repeatedly told that you would get.

      • oldwulf
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

        Hi Martin

        I’m a pleb …… I clearly didn’t listen to what I was told I would get …… but I’ll do my very best to listen to whatever you say. 🙂

  122. Harry
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

    The virus has never been isolated, the test is 93% plus inaccurate even if it had been isolated. The test centres are empty so how are the numbers arrived at? Death rates are entirely consistent with normal flu (which is now rebranded as covid). The lockdown has had no effect on numbers (not surprising as they are made up). No virus has ever been eliminated as some “experts” have stated must happen. The “experts” are all in the pay of Big Pharma. Masks are hazardous to your health and completely ineffective (as stated on their packaging). Our businesses and futures are gone. The economy is being ruined leading to far more deaths than any virus can mangage. Liberty and privacy are distant memories in this alleged bastion of freedom. Thousands on immigrants arrive every month ably assisted by British and French governments.
    Tell us, Mr Redwood, why should we not be burning down parliament and hunting down those responsible? Lets hope we soon will be.

    • Jacqui
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

      + 1
      I know 1 person who committed suicide in the last lockdown and 2 family members with serious painful health issues, one was left until the summer and the other remains unresolved, causing them severe pain and the need for daily pain relief.
      People are suffering mentally, physically and economically from the governments handling of this non-pandemic.
      The PCR test is no fit for purpose, the data analysis is not accurate and decisions are being based on guesswork and assumptions which are being selectively chosen and manipulated to justify the governments actions.
      It’s time for MP’s to stand up against this for their constituents and local businesses as they have already suffered enough.
      We should no longer be PCR testing or quarantining healthy people who are not infectious (as has ceased in Belgium) it is against our wishes and rights of freedom.

    • Richard
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:57 pm | Permalink

      Yes agreed. Good summary.
      1) The CDC admited in July that “no quantified virus isolates of the 2019-nCoV are currently availabe”
      2) Both PM Boris & Foreign Secretary Raab stated the 7%/93% a month ago.

  123. Mark
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:15 pm | Permalink

    To answer your question, all lockdown will do is harm the economy, kill the high street, destroy businesses, cause mental health epidemic, worsen the backlog of other serious health treatmens, can’t think of anything good it will do.

    The virus is here to stay and no lockdown will ever stop it.

    The Great British public are not cowered by this virus and provided we all understand our age/health risk would be prepared to face it head on and let the virus take its course.

    If some hospitals are facing a crisis then that needs to be dealt with by the great NHS, extra field hospitals were erected for this purpose.

    The number of cases is not actually the issue, the issue is reducing the mortality rate, lockdown might push the pause button but to bring down the mortality rate there are other ways.

  124. Disaffected Tory
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

    There is very little chance that this will be voted down next week. The Conservatives must apply pressure on the PM to resign he is not up to the job. How many more chances can he be given. He may be ok in good times but he is really out of his depth now. Note Michael Gove implying that if this lockdown fails it will be our fault.
    Poor leadership or what.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:14 pm | Permalink

      Sir John – The only way to stop this madness is to vote it down. Otherwise you condemn the country to endless authoritarian control and madness.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

      So we – all seventy million of us – will have yet another unelected PM imposed upon us by a few thousand votes amongst the generally elderly eccentrics who make up the Tory Party membership.

      And yet you carp about the so called “democratic deficit” in our erstwhile home the European Union – where such nonsense would be utterly unthinkable.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

        He is elected
        First by his constituency
        Then by members of party.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 2, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          It is so nice to see that eventually even you realise when you are out of your depth in some of your discussions with Hefner. I wish you would realize this a bit more often, it would make a ratherbetter impression when you are on thisn ice.

          thank you keep it up

  125. The Prangwizard
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:38 pm | Permalink

    I am of course not alone in being suspicious of the numbers quoted as having died with covis. I suspect the reason we have to put up with the present misleading and exaggerated numbers is that to weed out those who died of something else even though they had a positive test requires extra effort and judgement from the medical and hospital staff.

    Such extra effort is just too much personal and professional trouble which they can get away with or they are under orders not to go to that trouble.

  126. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

    It seems that people are really NOT taking notice of Boris when it comes to panic buying —-

    Supermarkets are jam-packed with plenty of empty shelves

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

      and the new panic queues everywhere, mostly no masks worn will do wonders for the growth of Covid infections.

  127. Jiminyjim
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 2:58 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, we urgently need business people in government. Can you imagine a CEO surviving if he insisted something was not going to happen one week and then did it the next? Neither can I. Can you imagine a CEO surviving if he refused to look at cost/benefit and just expected people to slavishly follow his irrational decisions? Neither can I. Can you imagine a CEO surviving if he made decisions and basically refused to explain what he was aiming to achieve? Neither can I.
    I can’t be the only Conservative voter who had high hopes for Boris and now just wants him gone, together with all his ‘SAGEIDIOTS’

  128. forthurst
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:00 pm | Permalink

    The purpose of Germany’s Infection Protection Act (IfSG), which came into force in 2001, is to prevent communicable diseases in humans, to detect infections at an early stage, and to prevent their further spread. The participation and cooperation of federal, state and local authorities, physicians, veterinarians, hospitals, scientific institutions and other stakeholders is essential, and should be established and supported in accordance with the current state of medical and epidemiological science and technology. The responsibility of the owners and managers of community facilities, food establishments, health facilities, and individuals in the prevention of communicable diseases is to be clarified and promoted.

    Acording to the Robert Koch Institute as of October 31st, The nationwide increase is caused by increasingly diffuse transmission, with a large number of clusters in connection with private gatherings, celebrations or public events, but also in educational settings, and nursing and long-term care homes, as well as in occupational settings or related to religious events.

    Angela Merkel has extended the AHA acronym for ‘distancing, hygiene and masks’ to AHACL to include the ‘coronavirus warning ap’ and ‘airing a room’. Increasing restrictions are being applied in locales where there has been an upsurge in cases.

    https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Situationsberichte/Okt_2020/2020-10-31-en.pdf?__blob=publicationFile

    • forthurst
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:19 pm | Permalink

      “Aerosol emission is increased markedly when speaking loudly, singing or laughing. Indoors, this significantly increases the risk of transmission, even if a distance of more than 1.5 m is maintained. If the minimum distance of 1.5 m is not complied with among persons without community/face masks, e.g. when groups of people sit at a table or in large gatherings, there is also an increased risk of transmission outdoors.” RKI – Risk assessment for COVID-19

      The noise level in venues is often high. This is often accentuated by the fad for bare floors. There is loud background music and people talk above it. Then other people have to talk louder to contend with the loud speech as well. Perhaps a music ban or a even a maximum decibel level for it or the establishment?

      • L Jones
        Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

        Have you applied to join your local branch of the Covid Marshals? You sound as though you might be rather a good recruit. Or do you just satisfy yourself with curtain twitching and the occasional dobbing phone call?

        • forthurst
          Posted November 2, 2020 at 10:07 am | Permalink

          I would actually rather not suffer a lockdown. I would rather that scientifically-based measures were used to contain its spread without the need. Try to understand the point: the virus does not have a political agenda.

  129. Paul Cuthbertson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:02 pm | Permalink

    I think the situation will change after the Donald Trump landslide victory.
    The UK establishment will be in panic mode as he is not supposed to win.
    Where have you heard that before??

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:06 pm | Permalink

      Roll on Tuesday! We need to find our Trump!

      • Fred H
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:43 pm | Permalink

        I think you mean Wednesday in the H of C?

  130. percy openshaw
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, as a lifelong Tory voter I must express my contempt for current government policy with regards to Covid. Its justification has morphed from “protecting the NHS” into a completely Utopian aim of suppressing the virus entirely. The relative silence from a parliamentary Tory party – which rumour tells us is widely disgruntled – cannot be sustained much longer. Either you and your colleagues defeat this latest round of self-destructive nonsense, or your supporters must look elsewhere for political and ideological representation. Never forget: there is ALWAYS Mr Farage. Thank goodness!

  131. Graham Wheatley
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    This long ago ceased to be (…if indeed it ever was?) ANYTHING to do with ‘containment’.

    It is now – most certainly – EVERYTHING to do with coersive control of the population.

    I would urge everybody to read these documents :-

    1) Lord Jonathan Sumption’s Cambridge lecture of 27th October – https://resources.law.cam.ac.uk/privatelaw/Freshfields_Lecture_2020_Government_by_Decree.pdf

    2) the Great Barrington declaration – https://gbdeclaration.org/

    3) the words of Dr. Mike Yeadon in the Daily Mail – https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8899053/DR-MIKE-YEADON-Three-facts-No-10s-experts-got-wrong.html

    4) the analysis of Dr. Malcolm Kendrick – https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/09/04/covid-why-terminology-really-matters/ if this man is correct then Ferguson, Vallance, Whitty et al have committed a criminal error in giving the advice that they have to the Government.

    Finally, 5) to inspect the ONS weekly update to the Local Authority data sheet (…note published and downloadable in .xlsx format which can cater for over 1 million rows of data….. just sayin’ like….) – all columns are filterable to extract the data for the viewer’s chosen area(s). There is a two week lag in the data, but even so, those data are quite revealing – https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/deathregistrationsandoccurrencesbylocalauthorityandhealthboard

    Upon reading even one of those documents, I would expect every sane, logical, thinking person to lobby their MP and instruct them to vote AGAINST these new measures.

    Upon reading even one of those documents, I would expect every sane, logical, thinking MP to ignore the instructions of their party leader, and the whips, and to vote AGAINST the latest measures in The House.

    One rather insidious inclusion in the lockdown2 measures is that pubs will be prevented from off-sales of beer at the door. During lockdown1, many publicans did this and it was the only thing that was keeping them from going under. Mark Drakeford in Wales barred supermarkets from selling goods that would have been available from forcibly closed shops, ‘in the interests of fairness’.

    Boris is now banning publicans from using the only means they have of making use of unsold stock come 5th November, and in keeping some sort of turnover going. He is effectively forcing people to abandon them giving any of their custom to the local hostelries and giving their business to er….the supermarkets. How is THAT fair?

    I also notice that Boris is somewhat of a joker (or perhaps merely now taking the proverbial?). …. pubs re-opened on July 4th (Independence Day) and lockdown2 is now set for the anniversary of the Gunpowder Plot. Perhaps he is fearful that there may be ‘an unexpected item in the bagging area’, in the cellars?

    PLEASE VOTE AGAINST THESE NEW MEASURES.

    Regards,
    GW.

    • margaret2
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:55 pm | Permalink

      Plus 1000 !

  132. Pieter C
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Sir John, thank you for posting this. The Government is ruling by decree and deliberately circumventing the parliamentary process on which our freedom and democracy depends (and according to Lord Sumption, operating with questionable legality). We constantly hear about “the science” and “the data”. It is clear that “the data” is whatever Sage and the Government want it to be. The main issue is the infringements on the rights and freedom of the individual. Proper information should be provided to everyone so that they can manage the risks to their own health and that of those they are close to. To bet the livelihoods and well being of the whole country on the chance of a working vaccine is an extremely high-risk strategy, not only for the country but for the Prime Minister personally, the Government and the Conservative Party. We must learn to live with Covid, as we do with ‘flu, and any vaccine is likely to provide short-term immunity only.

  133. N.C.Watkis
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    The impending lock-down is a grave mistake and will do irreparable harm to the economy and society in general. Back in March the chief scientific officer said that there was always a surge after a lock down, so what happens after the lock-down and there is a surge? The argument that it is to save the NHS and lives is not credible. In the spring the NHS was saved for Corvid, but effectively closed to everything else, especially cancer patients.
    Whose lives are to be saved? The scientific “experts” are not experts but specialists in their own narrow field. Their wisdom is not omnipotent. We are all mortal and nothing we can do will alter that. As we get older our life expectancy gets less. If Covid 19 was a serious threat to those under 50 it would be important, but most of the “increased deaths are among those over 70. Most people over 70 would prefer a quality of life with friends and family for the time they have left, rather than a solitary confinement worse than prison imposed by politicians and civil servants. I doubt that the majority of those over 70 would wish that the life, livelihoods and wellbeing of those under retirement, on whose work and taxes the over 70s depend, should be destroyed in order to preserve their lives in purely an existence in solitary confinement. Let those who are vulnerable and wish to isolate themselves be assisted to do so, and let the rest of society get on with live and its inherent risks

  134. pleb
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 4:48 pm | Permalink

    remainers/leavers.
    left/right.
    black/white
    jew/muslim
    christian/atheist.
    “you’re all pawns in the game “( ex The Prisoner 1967 ) Over 50 years ago.
    The answer is clear
    Heal yourself first before turning your attention to others.
    You are worth healing.
    Beauty is truth. Truth beauty.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

      Wearing a mask much of the day makes me feel delirious too. Not least because I have tinnitus and seeing people’s mouths is an important part of my communication – in the end it messes with your head, banter and vital light heartedness is too much of an effort and mask wearing has become a Karen’s charter.

  135. pleb
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    Most people cant comprehend whats going on.
    Because they are new to it.
    Step back. Be cool
    Love ( in the non sexual sense ) and forgiveness is all
    Forgive yourself first.

    “They know not what they do” from the cross ( whatever era / belief )
    I didnt know

  136. Rus
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:49 pm | Permalink

    We are never going to be able to travel abroad to see loved ones, I just know it. This is like the start of Soviet Union. I feel heartbroken.

    • Mitchel
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 10:47 am | Permalink

      Actually, it feels more like the end of the Soviet Union.Have you booked your place in the bread queue yet?!

  137. pleb
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

    Its a rather big subject and if you’re new to it you will be fearful.
    Have no fear whatsoever.
    Its a propaganda war and the players arent very good at it.
    Its not your job to save the world, nor mine
    It is however your job and mine to look inside ourselves in order to redeem ourselves.

  138. pleb
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

    Let me reiterate. Its really not your job to sort it out.
    The cons seem to like little groups with chairmen, deputies, secretaries etc
    Have you heard of group think
    ( as opposed to independent thought )

    By the way “its “wrong maybe nobody told you. I’m telling you.
    The thought , the inclination is not wrong.
    The action is and thats what Francis meant.

  139. gyges
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    The Tory party is running into serious difficulties with this policy.

    You can’t show us what quality controls you have in place with regard to data collecting and recording. Very basic, very boring but this doesn’t appear to be in place – you’re using excel for goodness sake.

    Testing – no one from the gov has given the answer to the question, if I test positive for covid what are the chances I have covid? This is very bad, just imagine if anyone tried to do this with any other disease.

    Previous lockdowns – you haven’t shown whether or not the previous one were effective.

    This isn’t looking good for your future prospects …

    There are other points but …

    • L Jones
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:33 pm | Permalink

      I’d say it is looking very good for their future prospects. They have proved to themselves that we are easily controlled, manipulated and coerced. So if they wish to cheat us out of a GE – then I’m sure ways could be found.

  140. Helen Smith
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

    Shops have spent money and taken trouble to make themselves CoVid secure, to shut them now is cruel, stupid and counter productive, have you seen the crowds out today trying to get all their Christmas shopping done in three days, the likes of Gove saying it may not end in early December is not helping.

    I can see the sense in shutting casinos, betting shops and night clubs, and not having theatres or cinemas open, but car show rooms?

    The likes of Whitty and Vallance have no idea, none.

    • L Jones
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

      Let’s bet that if one of their loved ones were nearing the end of their days in a care home or hospital – they would be at their side.
      May be a hypothetical question – but one worth considering.

  141. a bad dream
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:00 pm | Permalink

    Kary Mullis, the inventor of the manufacturing process, later to be re-purposed as “the #COVID19” test, after his death, had this to say about using his own invention.👇
    (Labs are now using 40 + cycles, in desperate attempt to find anything at all even slightly resembling covid).

  142. matt dublin
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:10 pm | Permalink

    there are other decisions to be taken besides lockdown, problem is the English people are not equipped or ready yet for making decisions for themselves- they have always deferred to their betters- sorry to say- so why ask? Lock down is about Covid, and the the US election matters to the US and the world, but what JR said in yesterday’s blog that he is neutral- which is a lie- a big lie- he is not at all neutral like the other Tory ERG types he is decidedly on the side of Trump- and by so hoping for party reasons ie. to be far away from the EU as possible that Trump might scrape past- but it’s not going to happen. So then now we have the Lords sitting on the IMB waiting to see the outcome of the election before sending it back to the Commons and either way hoping to hide the blushes of Government and we think that the EU cannot see through- we think Barnier and Von der Lyon, Verhofstadt etc cannot see through- we are on a hiding to nothing with all of this- the whole thing like with Trump is a fiasco and stinks

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:12 pm | Permalink

      Time the Irish deferred to their betters, your ‘betters’ think you should be the biggest individual contributors to their little EU project. Pay up now. Or else!

    • steve
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

      Dublin bloke

      John Redwood is not a liar. He might be a bit too PC on occasion for my liking, but liar ? most deffinately not.

      You might consider how you would like it if we went onto an Irish blog and started wrongfully calling out those whom you hold in esteem.

  143. Iain Gill
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:21 pm | Permalink

    I see Graham Brady is going to vote against the lockdown, hurray for him. I hope some other MP’s do the same.

    It is Simon Stevens, Dido Harding, and the other clueless lot who need sacking and quickly.

    Some pragmatic realism needed, and change of the generals of world war I running the public sector now who keep making the same mistakes and all have the same class background and prejudices.

  144. Iago
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

    I take it the new ‘lockdown’ will not affect the cross-channel migration and also that the daily arrival of two thousand migrants at the airports (as during the first ‘lockdown’) will be unimpeded.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 7:55 pm | Permalink

      Still not explained to us in any way, shape or form.
      Empty promises ( lies) only.

  145. Sylvia Priest
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:13 pm | Permalink

    I thought the NHS doctors were saying they knew how to treat covid now – have they dropped all treatments to wait for a vaccine? What is the reason that people are still dying of it? I have written to the R B Hospital in Reading to ask them what treatments they have for covid and how many patients are in ICU with covid but have yet to receive a reply. Boris was there last week and told they could cope, so what has changed?

    • L Jones
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

      There are plenty of very effective theraputics available. Unfortunately, they’re cheap. And the big pharma companies don’t like ‘cheap’.

    • Sharon
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:35 pm | Permalink

      According to Lockdown Sceptics hospitals are refusing to release figures recently. Make ofvthat what you will.

    • sam
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:01 am | Permalink

      we know that hydroxychloroquine and zinc work but still the NHS is not using it. Also deaths from pneumonia and flu seem to have disappeared!

      • Fred H
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

        they are now added into Covid deaths. (yes sneaky models).

  146. Nigel Gibney
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:19 pm | Permalink

    The problem is insufficient ICU capacity in hospitals. The solution is to create more capacity. A lockdown can provide time to do this. The Government should focus the resources of the Country on creating sufficient capacity as quickly as possible. Given the progress of the epidemic to date, the extra capacity required is likely to be small.

    • Sharon
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:34 pm | Permalink

      The NHS et al have had since March… don’t make excuses for them!

      And large parts of the country have only low numbers of hospitalisation. That’s what the ONS show, which contradicts the exaggerations. Matt H knows the deaths are no higher than an average year….and has no proof they are higher.

    • sam
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:00 am | Permalink

      the Nightingale hopsital they built were not used. They can easily build some again if it became necessary but how does this equate with destroying businesses and plunging millions into poverty??

      • Fred H
        Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

        We will have lots more empty warehouses for potential sites of Nightingales.

  147. Original Chris
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

    It is puzzling and concerning that you will not post the ONS statistics of causes of death in September, and death rate in September compared with the 5 year average, which I tried to post. They are of huge significance to What is the point of lockdown?

    Do the ONS statistics represent unpleasant truths demonstrating that the lockdown policy is flawed? One characteristic that I wouldn’t have attributed to you: the ability to face up to the truth. I am wrong apparently.

    • Original Chris
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

      “..the inability to face up to the truth”

  148. Jerome
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    So sorry to hear of the passing of Robert Fisk- one of the giants

  149. mancunius
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

    Sir John – Please oppose the threatened closure of churches to church services. There is not the slightest evidence that the discreet, silent, socially-distanced attendance of church services causes or promotes any infection – and it is the first suspension of Christian services since the year 1208 under Bad King John.
    Christians have rights too.

  150. Paul Cuthbertson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    The point of the lockdown is the control of the people and the MSM and the BBC have played a major part in promoting the fear mongering. So many people in the UK have their head in the sand and accept the protocol. There was never any need for a lockdown initially
    or now as the so called “pandemic” is no worse than influenza. The people need fresh air and contact with others to boost their immune system. Comments regarding the NHS are overblown as it has failed nany during this period. Open up the country now.

  151. Paul Cuthbertson
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

    ….failed many……

  152. beresford
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

    Starmer says the lockdown must be extended until the R rate is less than one. But since the only places they are closing are those where the virus isn’t transmitted the lockdown will go on until the twelfth of never.

  153. Mr B
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

    Reading through the comments I can’t find any that argue in favour of lockdown 2.0.

    Borris and his government have got to show some true leadership, do not give in to the scientists, they are in charge of the country, you are. The scientists don’t see the big picture but you do.

    Lockdown 2.0 will be a catastrophic disaster.

    • Mr B
      Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

      Reading through the comments I can’t find any that argue in favour of lockdown 2.0.

      Borris and his government have got to show some true leadership, do not give in to the scientists, they are not in charge of the country, you are. The scientists don’t see the big picture but you do.

      Lockdown 2.0 will be a catastrophic disaster.

  154. Reginald Bowler
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

    What is needed? A lockdown such as the one we are about to have, rather late, and then a relaxation of the rules, this time with enforcement and sanction for rule breakers.

    There is no point whatever in having rules of any sort, social or legal, if they are not enforced. People just ignore them, which is why we are now where we are.

    It seems, from your blog, that you perhaps know this.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:28 am | Permalink

      In the pubs and restaurants I use, rule-following is strong. The weakest area of compliance seems to relate to self-isolation and quarantining. It’s no surprise that that’s the case; enforcement has been lax. The police should be visiting properties and handing out fixed penalties large enough to make the point to those taking risks with others’ health.

    • clarissa
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 9:50 am | Permalink

      Check out the death rate for Peru, which had the harshest and longest lockdown on the planet, enforced by the military. Oh and compulsory masks everywhere since March. It has the highest death rate in the world by quite some margin.
      Sorry, but the real world evidence shows that lockdowns don’t work, however much you think they should.

  155. glen cullen
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:07 pm | Permalink

    This is why we’re in lockdown

    The R is calculated through a combination of data and modelling. In the UK, data includes hospital and intensive care unit admissions, patients testing positive, deaths and surveys of people’s contacts. The data is fed through multiple models, which make different assumptions, before a subgroup of the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) reaches a consensus number. SAGE then reviews and endorses that number

  156. Richard
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:19 pm | Permalink

    Thank you Sir John for another excellent post.
    Professor Carl Heneghan & Dr Tom Jefferson make very similar points in the Mail today.
    “The second certainty is this: that we need to find a way out of the mess that does no more damage than the virus itself. We presented just such a plan to the Prime Minister himself more than a month ago. It will be put before him once again this weekend…
    Our strategy would be to tackle the four key failings. We must address the problems in the Government’s mass testing programme; we must tackle the blight of confused and contradictory statistics; we must make real efforts to protect and isolate those who are vulnerable; and we must inform the public about the true and quantifiable costs of lockdown (as if they needed telling).” .” https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8900897/Oxford-experts-DR-TOM-JEFFERSON-PROFESSOR-CARL-HENEGHAN-reveal-blueprint-handed-Boris-Johnson.html https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/11/01/latest-news-180/#carl-heneghans-plan-b

  157. Original Chris
    Posted November 1, 2020 at 11:52 pm | Permalink

    Maybe now Johnson will have to rethink lockdowns, and particularly also if P Trump wins on Tuesday. This is the best news all night:

    From D Tel online:

    “Exclusive: Nigel Farage to relaunch Brexit Party as Reform UK, a new anti-lockdown platform.

    Mr Farage and Mr Tice declare ‘lockdowns don’t work’, and say their new party will back a policy of ‘focused protection’ from coronavirus”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/11/01/exclusive-nigel-farage-relaunch-brexit-party-reform-uk-new-anti/

    Best news all night.

  158. sam
    Posted November 2, 2020 at 12:11 am | Permalink

    Please vote against this from now on if you get a chance.
    This is a complete farce. The PCR test tests for dead bits of viral material and cannot distinguish between the common cold which is also a coronavirus. The PRC test cannot tell the viral load and hence whether the subject is actually ill. A positive PCR test is not a case unless the subject is ill so we are all being deliberately mislead.
    The plan is to bring about ‘The Great Reset’ of the World Economic Forum where we will ‘own nothing and be happy’ by 2030. That is what they claim. This is why all governments are in ‘lockstep.’
    If we the ordinary people can see what is going on why cannot the politicians unless they are being paid not to see. If not then please be brave and stand up for the people not the globalists.

    • Old Salt
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 9:57 am | Permalink

      sam
      Then how do you plan on stopping the hospitals from being overwhelmed?

  159. Richard
    Posted November 2, 2020 at 1:07 am | Permalink

    There remains the problem of false positives in the PCR testing programme, which is linked to the number of cycles (number of times the sample is doubled in size).
    A brief recap on what others have written:
    NHS England: “Results of 43 [external quality assessments (EQAs) for RT-PCR assays] were examined, giving a median false positive rate of 2.3% (interquartile range 0.8-4.0%).” https://lockdownsceptics.org/2020/09/16/latest-news-136/#sage-knows-all-about-the-false-positive-rate
    Consultant Pathologist Dr Clare Craig: “Above 30 cycles and the chances of a test being from an infectious case are only 50/50. Above 34 cycles they are all positive. Another laboratory may find a different cut off. Indeed, a Canadian study found no cases requiring more than 24 cycles were infectious… 30 seems a reasonable number, especially when you consider that all patients requiring ventilation or who died, had samples detected with fewer than 30 cycles.” https://lockdownsceptics.org/when-is-covid-19-not-covid-19/

    Will Jones: “The Government hasn’t ordered its testing labs to keep the cycles below a certain number, but it has said that if the virus is only detected after 30 amplification cycles the lab has to retest to confirm that the subject in question is actually positive.
    This guidance was almost certainly issued in response to this paper by Carl Heneghan and his colleagues… that was published on Friday drawing attention to the over-sensitivity of the test”
    But Dr Mike Yeadon says that this Guidance is NOT being followed: “Scandalously, the Government either cannot or has chosen not to tell us what at present is the operational false positive rate. My own inferences are that it is not implausible that most positive tests are false (subclinical infection, fragments of destroyed virus, cross reactivity with common cold coronaviruses, old fashioned contamination). A total operational FPR of 5% would yield 15-20k positives per day, which is what we’re seeing. In direct contradiction to its own edict, issued after relentless and appropriate criticism of community testing during summer, no steps at all to assess and remove these problems. ” https://lockdownsceptics.org/covid-marie-celestes/

    Professor Carl Heneghan raises again today the “the problems in the Government’s mass testing programme”.
    The country is about to be put under mass house arrest based upon some scandalously poor science. It is past time that Conservative MPs stood up to the dictatorial Marxist excessess of this government, SAGE and Imperial College.

  160. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 2, 2020 at 6:27 am | Permalink

    I’m wondering if this article has set the record for the number of responses on the site. Perhaps, Sir John, you should start producing a daily graph. It’s all the rage these days.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 7:54 am | Permalink

      we could all offer our graphs of the National Unemployed numbers per week starting November and ending April 2021?

    • Mitchel
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 10:45 am | Permalink

      “rage” being the operative word!

  161. Cornmaiden
    Posted November 2, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    In my opinion, we should give people more freedom of choice. it would help if we were given information as to how vulnerable each group of people are, and put in place help and advice for all those in the “at-risk” category. We could then assess, ourselves, what level of risk we were prepared to accept. Trying to legislate against an unknown quantity will never work.

  162. XYXY
    Posted November 2, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

    My view on controls:

    Personal:

    – People who test positive must isolate.
    – People who have been close to anyone testing positive must isolate.
    – Anyone else is free to make their own decisions, “high risk” or otherwise.

    Companies:

    – Must provide the opportunity for people to work from home wherever possible.
    – Must allow vulnerable people to remain at home on sick pay if they cannot do their work from home.
    – Must provide a safe working environment, including social distancing, PPE etc.

    The combination of these measures allows for people to make their choices without affecting others, except one situation:

    Anyone who lives with a vulnerable person. If you live with someone who is shielding then you must respect their status or live elsewhere. the difficult one here is shielding parents or grandparents living with a rebellious or inconsiderate younger person – but that’s a problem under any set of rules.

    • M P B
      Posted November 2, 2020 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

      This virus has been in circulation for almost a year. No country or community has suffered the death rate of 4,000 per day relative to size of population. The UK has a 5 year average daily death rate of 1,500 to 1,700 depending on time of year, this is being maintained even with this virus.

      Our PM glibly quotes 4,000 per day without any context.
      It is a statement from a scare mongering fool
      Boris is an opportunist turned buffoon.

      Parliament must present verifiable and reasonable data, medical expert opinion and economic data to the nation to justify its decision.

      The UK has 8 months experience of battle with this unseen enemy which cannot be eliminated. If the Government cannot protect the economy the virus will win.

      Since July this year companies and enterprises have fought a long and hard battle to return to normality, in our shops, wholesalers and factories; hospitality has led the way trying to claw back to normality.

      Our population have responded magnificently with voluntary self isolation amongst the over 60’s and cautious economic reengagement by the remainder of the population, energised to return to work.

      A lockdown of 4 weeks is a severe body blow to “all” the recovery achieved so far.
      More than 4 weeks is a killer blow, especially over the Christmas period.

      Government knows this, yet they persist and ignore reality.

      This war we cannot win needs to be stopped NOW and the nation helped to live with the enemy.

      Start the fight back now!

      M

  163. Original Chris
    Posted November 2, 2020 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

    Perhaps you could relay to the powers that be that this article has stirred up the highest number ever of commenters, 515+

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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