The US election

So once again the mainstream media and the polling companies get an election massively wrong. They are tone deaf to people who vote for so called populist politicians. They despise parties that dare to stand against some of the fashionable and often wrong analyses and policies of the World bodies and elites that presume to know best. This makes it impossible for them to see the appeal of policies geared to freedom, free enterprise, self respect, and healthy scepticism of centralised power in governments and international bodies.

Doubtless they will now claim the fault was all the voters who voted the wrong way. They usually decry them and abuse them, and may say they lied to the pollsters. The fault is all their own, not that of the voters. If they are so clever and so worth their hire, they need to ask the right questions of the right people in their samples and interviews to get the forecast right. What is the point of them if they cannot?

Some of the media are quite incapable of understanding a Trump voter or a Brexit voter, because they start from the belief that it is an unacceptable conduct which only the bad, the ill informed and the stupid could countenance. Remember Hillary Clinton trying to win the Presidency by calling all who were planning to vote for Mr Trump the deplorables? I strongly disagree with the socialist way, but I respect those who vote for it and believe in it and seek to engage in political argument with them, not in trading abuse about their abilities and motives.

The polls said there would be a 10% gap between Mr Trump and Mr Biden. There is a 1.8% one. They said Mr Trump would lose a number of crucial swing states he won. The weight of media opinion was a Biden win was both inevitable and desirable. They endlessly repeated that Mr Biden would unite the USA whilst Mr Trump would divide it. They should look around them. The USA is deeply divided, and Mr Trump and Mr Biden stand for two very different ways forward for their country. It is not an easy task for anyone to unite the USA. Those who want their personal freedoms will always oppose the big government model. Those who want more government control and action to right the wrongs they see around them will never accept the demands of those who simply want their own right to lead their lives without more government demands.

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534 Comments

  1. Garland
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:23 am | Permalink

    Biden has won. You are not going to get the quick and easy trade deal that Trump would have given you. You will now have both the US and the EU making very sure you don’t cheat on the commitments you made to accept a border between NI and GB. Brexit goes from bad to worse to farce

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:42 am | Permalink

      I hope that Boris will tell Biden that the USA has NO ROLE in the affairs of Northern Ireland. NI is not some American protectorate. As for the likely absence on a UK-USA FTA, so be it. America will remain our largest single trading partner. And Biden and Pelosi can explain to their blue-collar supporters why their made-up commitments of the GFA are thought to be of more importance than American jobs.

      • Stephen Priest
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

        I hope that Boris . . .

        I’ve given up on that a long time ago.

      • Shaun Gray
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:55 pm | Permalink

        You are in for a shock. Biden is Ireland’s strongest supporter – after the EU. The UK now has both the Americans and all of Europe watching its every move. Well done Brexiters, you have managed to separate us from our historic allies. Still Mr Putin is happy

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

          Biden’s USA is nobody but China’s friend. Bought and paid for.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:01 am | Permalink

            Hey, Lynn.

            Biden has taken the lead in Georgia.

            Do you still want to stop the count there?

            As you would say

            “😂😂😂”

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:51 am | Permalink

      Some truth in this. If Biden wins (as looks very likely) is it s great shame. B oris should never have agreed to the new treaty making such commitments as I, Farrage, JR and many others indicated at the time.

      The Biden agenda if rolled out will be very damaging to the US, world and the UK economy.

      • IanT
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:08 pm | Permalink

        And when Harris takes over next year, things can only get better! 🙂

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

          Do you think it will be that long?

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:00 am | Permalink

      And let’s thank Remainers for four years of obstruction, dither and delay on that one.

    • Ian Wragg
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:23 am | Permalink

      The Republicans control the SCOTUS and the Senate sl Biden is a busted flush.

      • rose
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:46 pm | Permalink

        Gorsuch, Kavanaugh, and Mrs Barrett are not grandstanding judicial activists. They will rule legally and constitutionally. That is what conservative judges do. They do not do what Mrs Barrett’s left wing predecessor did, which was to rule partially and politically. Democrats pretend not to understand that preserving the constitution is a conservative object in itself.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:13 pm | Permalink

          🤞but we have seen the Biden or at least his puppet masters, do not play by the rules. You can’t win a game if you are the only one abiding by the rules, so we have to acknowledge that the game has changed. Do we want to play this new ruthless game or do we want to lose?
          It’s all change now, the Great Reset. But who gets to set the reset? That is what the question is now.

          • rose
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:01 pm | Permalink

            Yes, we kept the rules in the EU and the others didn’t. We keep the rules on illegal immigration and asylum, while other countries don’t. Conservatives keep the rules generally, while the Left keeps moving the ratchet forward by breaking them. I still think these judges will and do rule legally.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:36 am | Permalink

      Perhaps, but it is by no means certain yet.

      If I were John I would wait until all the votes are counted before claiming a percentage margin too.

      Postal votes – the counting of which the Republicans outrageously delayed – heavily favour the Democrat vote.

      This time yesterday Biden was only a million votes ahead in the popular vote. Now he is heading towards four million.

      • Dennis
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:14 pm | Permalink

        As the US is supposed to be the most advanced techno country in the world but cannot count votes quickly they should have invited the Venezuelan electoral officials in to do the job. They are super efficient and are worldwide known to be free, fair and accurate (don’t let the propaganda merchants deceive you).

        The Brazilians are also super efficient in counting votes doing their far flung voters results on the same day as the election. Don’t believe it? Check it out…
        For the 2018 presidential run-off election that led to Jair Bolsonaro’s victory, 90% of all votes were counted and the results released by 6:00 p.m. on the day of the election: the time the last state closed its polls. The full vote tally was available within a couple of hours after that. The same was true of the first-round voting held three weeks earlier — which also included races for governor, Senator and Congress in all the states: full vote totals were released by computer shortly after the polls closed and few had any doubts about their accuracy and legitimacy.

        eg. in the US – A completely untrustworthy voting count is now the norm. Two months after the New York state primary in August, two Congressional races were in doubt by what The New York Times called “major delays in counting a deluge of 400,000 mail-in ballots and other problems.” In particular:

        Thousands more ballots in the city were discarded by election officials for minor errors, or not even sent to voters until the day before the primary, making it all but impossible for the ballots to be returned in time.

        It took a full six weeks for New York to finally declare a winner in those two primary races for Congress.
        Also – The 2018 midterm elections were also marred by pervasive irregularities. The Washington Post noted “thousands of reports of voting irregularities across the country…. with voters complaining of broken machines, long lines and untrained poll workers improperly challenging Americans’ right to vote.”

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:56 pm | Permalink

        Wow 3 million votes ‘found’ behind the sofa. That is fraud on a big scale.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:53 pm | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          HOw do you konw they are fraud?

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

            Because dead people don’t vote.
            Because there were more votes cast than registered electors.
            Because there were 32,000 duplicate votes.
            There’s more.

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

            Dead people haven’t voted. There was a father and son with the same name who lived at the same address in Michigan. The father is dead, but it was the son who voted. The vote was attributed to his father in error.

            There were not more votes cast in Wisconsin than there were registered voters. That claim is based on out of date figures for voter registration.

            One simple cock up and one claim based on wrong information. You would be better off not believing false conspiracy theories posted on the internet.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

            There is screen shot on t’internet showing multiple voters with a date of birth of 1/1/1900

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 8:58 am | Permalink

            Do you know just how easy it is to fake such things Edward?

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

            The 4D rules of disinformation: Dismiss, Distort, Distract and Dismay.

            And as Monsieur Jourdain was speaking ‘prose’ without knowing it, some on this blog do the same but more deplorably some do it purposedly.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

            There are videos of people giving evidence of irregularities.
            Presumably they are all lying or are avatars.

      • IanT
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:12 pm | Permalink

        Wasn’t quite the walkover you expected though was it Martin?

        I do wonder how many people voted for Biden just because they didn’t like Trump. I hope they don’t regret this when they end up with Kamala Harris as their President.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:05 pm | Permalink

          I absolutely did not expect any kind of walkover.

          Read my few posts pre-election.

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

            But Biden is sure he has won, because he knows that however many votes he need will be pulled out of the hat at the last minute, see Georgia.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 3:47 pm | Permalink

            He knows because a careful survey of mail-in voters revealed about 80% of them for him, because we know how many remain to be counted, and also the small number of votes that he needs.

            It is simple arithmetic.

            If the Republicans had not prevented their counting until close of polling, then the picture would have been clear from the start.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

            Seems voters over 100 years old have voted
            Very impressive.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        Why do you think that postal votes are not cast in the same ratios as those who can be bothered to turn up?

        Always been a mystery to me.

      • margaret howard
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:58 pm | Permalink

        Martin in Cardiff

        “Postal votes – the counting of which the Republicans outrageously delayed – heavily favour the Democrat vote.”

        That’s probably because they can read and write!

        • Edward2
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

          Amazing if they are over 100 years old.

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:11 pm | Permalink

            The good American fresh air of the never-ending plains.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

            Would you accept false ballots existed if you actually had the evidence?

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 6:25 pm | Permalink

            Yes, obviously, show them to me or, I guess much more likely, one of the State Courts will be able to do just that.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 9, 2020 at 7:34 pm | Permalink

            Wait and see.
            Evidence is appearing.I dont mind if Biden wins.
            Just that there is a fair and free election.

    • Sir Joe Soap
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      Neither NI nor UK accepts a border between NI and GB without an NI referendum on breaking the GFA in that way. Any government imposing that will not be a government for long, regardless of who is or isn’t the US President.

    • Narrow Shoulders
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

      Are you commenting from outside the UK?

      If not then it is “we” not “you” unless you are intent on undermining your own existence.

      • Narrow Shoulders
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:04 am | Permalink

        Or is your comment a veiled criticism of forced integration?

    • Robert McDonald
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

      And don’t people like you love that the UK, your home nation I presume, may suffer because we made a democratic choice to leave the eurocracy. The only problems leaving has exposed is with those remainers who constantly attempt to derail the process, and the eurocracy is shown to be full of bullies. I am confident that whatever the result in America, the UK will thrive in the world of open trade and independence. Brexit goes from eurocracy to democracy, and if the Bidens and Barniers of the world can’t handle that then it is their problem … we’ll survive and thrive.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

        +1 if the USA is in meltdown, we stand alone with our Dominions again. Defending and protecting the ‘English system’ – democracy and capitalism.
        Antifa and OBLM are marching in the States demanding ‘death to Capitalism’ with pictures of a decapitated Trump.
        This is a declaration of War.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 3:50 pm | Permalink

          What hysterical nonsense.

          There might be a handful of hotheads here and there, but in a country of 320,000,000 it’s only to be expected.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

            Read BLM’s main ambitions.

    • Richard1
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

      On the contrary I think it’s got the govt off a hook. All the absurd nonsense about chlorinated chicken and GM foods would have made a bilateral US-U.K. deal difficult. Biden will face the same pressures to get the economy going as other govts. Joining the CTPP will be a simple step, as it will be for the U.K.

      It is also excellent that the US electorate cannot in any way be said to have backed all the leftist identity politics, climate hysteria and the rest of it. Biden has scraped a victory and not got the senate. And on the back of the votes of older white people. Biden will need all the help he can get. He might pay lip service to EU-integration, but he’s unlikely gratuitously to pick a fight with the US’s most reliable ally.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

      Why the endless Remainer obsession with a trade deal withe the USA? We don’t have one at the moment and they are our second largest export market.

      I hope we don’t do a trade deal with them.

      • Dennis
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

        And we won’t need to inport all their rubbish food – did you see Dispatches (last week (?) on Ch 4 on US farming practices? Ugh! Even the Americans said don’t import our stuff and don’t do what we do here.

    • Roy Grainger
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:41 am | Permalink

      Brexit won. Get over it.

    • Bryan Harris
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:53 am | Permalink

      Biden has not won YET God help the world if he ever does.

      If you want to talk absurdly about cheating as you are – Go check out how the Democrats are kicking out Republicans from voting stations so that they can adjust the votes count more easily — then look at what is happening with multiple votes for Biden from the same people in the form of mail-votes

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

        Open fraud and gerrymandering. I am shocked to the core. The Democratic deep state are truly desperate. They need to be, Trump needs to safeguard democracy for the future of us all.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

        The US authorities are satisfied that there is no significant ballot fraud happening.

        Your conspiracy theory websites – and Trump himself – of course state otherwise.

        They have zero verifiable evidence as ever though.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

          What authoritys ?
          Proof please.

          • hefner
            Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:47 pm | Permalink

            Hello Edward2, are you asking that from Lynn, I wonder?

            As for the gerrymandering, have you ever looked at the shape of some ‘congressional districts (constituencies). I guess not, but I would recommend looking at the shape of Illinois Congressional District 4, Louisiana CD4, North Carolina CD12, or the one for Baltimore (Maryland CD3) … And as an exercise, could you guess why such CDs have such ‘interesting’ shapes?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:03 am | Permalink

            No.
            I was asking Martin.
            He said US authorities…..
            I was asking what authorities,.
            Is that OK with you?

      • bill brown
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

        Bryan Harris

        Proof please,

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:40 pm | Permalink

          Look at the fact that the Dems are taking legal action to evict scruitineers – why? Proven duplicate ballots, ballots cast be dead people, one died in 1824!

          • rose
            Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

            Very strange interview with an electoral official conducted by one of our broadcasters: the man went out of his way to declare he was a registered Republican and then went on to denounce the Republicans for questioning the process. If he was an official in that position, what on earth was he doing declaring his political affiliation? He did it to manipulate opinion.

          • hefner
            Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:48 pm | Permalink

            Reference of the website where you found this information, please.

        • Bryan Harris
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

          You want proof… as if it were possible to make a blind man see!

          Go read what is being published by the non-msm press — never expect any truth from the establishment media – find a better source and you’ll be better informed

          • bill brown
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:47 pm | Permalink

            Bryan Harrris

            you seem to be coming up with the same comments for everybody who does not agree with you about finding other sources?
            Why?

    • Richard416
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

      Nor are you.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

        Richard 146

        I usually find teh real sources so thank you

        • Edward2
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:49 am | Permalink

          But you never quote them.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

            Edward 2

            coming from you at your level that is rather steep

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:22 am | Permalink

            May I suggest bill that you try to achieve the high standards you require fom others when you make your own little posts

    • Timaction
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      Get over it. You lost. We want our freedom from the tyranny of the EU! Trade and friendship, nothing more. Not the control freakery of the EU bureaucracy fool!

      • bill brown
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:46 pm | Permalink

        Timeaction

        What does that have to do with Trump losing and lying

    • JoolsB
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      Love or hate Trump he is pro British unlike Biden and Obama before him and obviously people like you. Britain vote to leave the EU – get over it.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

        It’s a miracle we won the Referendum and I’ll tell you why: they can only ‘massage’ a certain percentage of the vote; and our Leave vote was so big that they were not prepared to dump additional Remain votes at the last minute.
        The Democrats in the USA ‘massaged’ the Presidential vote too, but the Trump vote was so huge that they were overtaken and they did dump the extra votes required! We can all see it unless we put our own eyes out.
        The real problem is that we in the west have had Democracy stolen from us. I will give an example: JR might not like it though and may not post.

    • James Bertram
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      Yes, this is what Johnson has been delaying the exit talks for.
      Expect to see a betrayal of the Brexit vote, and a Brino fudge. A farce.
      We shall have to wait at least another 4 years for proper independence to be gained.
      All but 39 of our MPs need to be thrown out of office. What a shower.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

        They are weak and are influenced by ‘public opinion’ which believes we are facing Armageddon because it is inconceivable that the establishment and MP could be so idiotic.
        Most MPs want to do what the public wants or what they are told the public wants! Time to ditch the pollsters who now seek to lead public opinion.

      • glen cullen
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:02 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • Old Salt
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

        JB
        + 1

    • Hope
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

      Like Clinton Biden labelled the same people as chumps, those ordinary hard working blue collar people who do not accept his culturally Marxist view.

      The ones who believe in a man and woman, marriage of the same, christians, the ones who know that ‘unconscious bias’ is a socialist construct of left meaning you must not express any view different from them or will be smeared, labelled and ridiculed as thick, racist, xenophobic, you hate all other people etc etc. Sound familiar?

      Hence why polls will not be accurate any more people keep their views to themselves.

      At the moment we have Johnson using the old trick of scaring people by coercing them to believe catclysmic outcomes if we do not comply with his orders. Masks are of no scientific use, we were told that by his chief medical advisors who now tell us differently to force compliance. Masks are used now to suppress and scare people into submitting to the states will.

      The graphs used to justify the national arrest were created to fit a policy not the other way around- even Teresa May saw through that and had the gumption to raise in parliament. The figures were portrayed as accurate not worse case projections and Valance backtracked at select committee claiming he regretted if people thought that! For an intelligent scientific person that was a gross incompetent error or he is not being truthful. Scientist speak in undefined terms not categoric ones if not absolutely sure.

      Death figures are clearly fiddled to inflate the numbers, again formcompliance and scaremfacror.

      JR, suggest you and chums find out what is going on.

      Brexit: Barrier announced another two weeks of talks! About what? Is this any different from 31st October last year, June, July or 15/10/2020? When does Johnson walk?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:54 am | Permalink

        I think that you touch on some valid points as to why many ordinary people vote for such as Trump.

        It is for what they perceive – but often as a False Opposite – that he will NOT do.

        E.g. They believe that he would not propose a law to prosecute construction workers for the odd wolf-whistle.

        He would not prohibit parents from raising their young to believe their norms – as opposed to those of a minority of theoreticians – to be acceptable and indeed, normal. (Not that Biden, say, would propose preventing that, but the perception has been probably created).

        Progressive movements need to learn, and to be very careful that some pressure groups with untoward aims are not hiding behind their skirts, or believed to be there.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

          He created many new jobs.
          He reduced taxes on people who could be described as blue collar workers.
          Yet you still cannot like him.
          Even a tiny bit.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

        +1

    • Northern Monkey
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:31 am | Permalink

      So much so wrong!

      Congratulations, does your crystal ball have a view on snow or not on Christmas Day?

    • formula57
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 12:42 pm | Permalink

      @ Garland “Brexit goes from bad to farce” – you are of the type who “… claim the fault was all the voters who voted the wrong way” are you?

  2. Ian Wilson
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:33 am | Permalink

    Does the unexpected support for Trump, albeit perhaps not quite enough, indicate that as in Australia there is huge opposition to ruinous climate policies? UK politicians please note.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

      Indeed sensible people and climate realists want cheap, reliable energy – not the expensive renewables lunacy that make no significatn difference to co2 or climate anyway. Cut the subsidies and market rigging – when if it cost effective fine.

      Alas the endless BBC propaganda outfit have deluded many people (especially the ones with no understanding of science, chaotic systems, energy, logic, maths or climate history, or climate – which is alas most people.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:38 am | Permalink

      I think that it means that the pollsters do not know how to engage a representative sample of voters any more.

      It appears that people who previously never used to vote – and who may be difficult to identify – now do.

      • Merlinthehammer
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:36 pm | Permalink

        I too think Boris has been waiting on the USA vote because, frankly, he has lost his bottle. He dare just about stick his neck out if Trump has got his back, but without that, he will visibly deflate and we’ll end up with BRINO. I guessed this was a possibility when he and Gove went roaring in at the 11th hour instead of leaving Frost to conclude either way his fantastic efforts v the EU.

        The bright breezy days of last December have vanished… Boris & Co have a huge globalist thumb on their heads, and we are almost certainly about to get shafted. THEN it’ll get ‘interesting’…

        • Old Salt
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:57 pm | Permalink

          Mth
          +1

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

          +1 and in the USA too.

    • Mike Wilson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

      Interesting switch. It seems that you think:

      1) Burning fossil fuel is not a ‘ruinous climate policy’

      2) Green, sustainable energy is a ‘ruinous climate policy’

      Some might think you have things back to front.

      Burning oil and coal is soooooo dirty.

      • Ian Wilson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

        It’s so-called ‘green’ policies which are ‘dirty.’ A large wind turbine needs 2,500 tons of concrete plus all the lorries, diggers to take it to site and excavate, it kills birds and bats on a colossal scale, and its blades cannot be recycled at end of life. In Scotland alone 13.9 million trees have been felled to make way for wind farms. Their high-cost electricity inflates all our bills and has killed much of our heavy industry. One electric car battery needs 200 tons of excavation for the minerals while cobalt mines in the Congo use children as young as seven working in hideously unhealthy and dangerous conditions. Call that ‘green’?

      • Al
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

        “Burning oil and coal is soooooo dirty.” – Mike Wilson

        Then perhaps the priority should be putting out the wasteful and pointless coal seam fires which create over 3% of the world’s CO2 and generate no energy, which is more than the entire UK emits from all sources. For comparison, the UK currently burns 9M Metric tonnes of coal (ONS figures). Coal Seam fires in China alone burn 10-200 million metric tons a year (report from Daily Telegraph).

        This would mean putting pressure on China and the US, so I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.

      • Original Richard
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:56 pm | Permalink

        According to Wikipedia the last glacial maximum was approximately 22,000 years ago and the earth has been warming up ever since.

        How do those who believe in anthropogenic global warming explain why the earth started warming before the burning of fossil fuels?

        If the “greens” really believed in clean energy they would be promoting nuclear (fission) energy as this is the cleanest fuel we have right now. It is even the safest when considering deaths per unit of energy produced.

    • Timaction
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:18 am | Permalink

      Yes. The people can see the climate is much the same yet their taxes keep rising to pay the foolish policies of the legacy parties. We simply don’t want the left wing nonsense.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:21 am | Permalink

      Considering the way the election was handled it looks as if the globalists are getting their way. The end of democracy.
      Those MPs who refused to protect our liberty on Wednesday should think on!
      We all know what happens to useful idiots come the apocalypse!

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

        Wise words. They think they are immune. As do state employees.

  3. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:42 am | Permalink

    It is sad to note how the calls for “diversity” perforce entail having to think in the prescribed, single “correct” way consistent with a “unique” media outlook that is echoed by clearly partisan polling.
    If we happen to disagree with the fans of such a mindset or express a preference for anything other than the liberal dogma thrust upon us, we suddenly and disturbingly find ourselves labelled far-right extremists.
    I’m sorry but when freedom of expression is denied like this, then it emerges that it is they who are in fact the adherents of authoritarianism.
    I do not welcome being “talked down to” as though I were a child who is unable to think critically and form my own opinions about moral or political issues.
    I have no issues with people who vote for those other than my choice of candidate.
    Why? Because I am a genuine “democrat”.

    • SecretPeople
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:13 am | Permalink

      Well said.

  4. steve
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:05 am | Permalink

    Garland

    “don’t cheat on the commitments you made to accept a border between NI and GB. ”

    Firstly WE made no commitment to that. Secondly; the person responsible for that treason will be brought to justice.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

      In the end all land is held by force of arms. We have to fight for our place on earth, always have done. The west has become complacent and allowed the enemy to penetrate. French Government now acknowledges that and informs the French people that they are now in a ‘civil war’. THANKS!

  5. James Strong
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    Our politicians in the UK should heavily restrict the right to postal ballots. And get on with it now.
    All legitimate votes must be counted; at the same time we must do all we can to prevent illegitimate votes being counted.
    And we know there is potential for serious abuse of postal voting in the UK. Close that possibility now.
    Sir John, please get this idea discussed among your colleagues and get the law changed.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

      Postal ballots are so dangerous that I think we should ditch them in favour of proxy voting.

      • hefner
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 9:33 am | Permalink

        Well, shock (horror 😉), I fully agree with you, Lynn.

        Proxy voting (in two steps, first the person needing such proxy voting giving some time in advance an example of their signature from a referenced document to the polling authorities, second on actual polling day the person voting in-lieu bringing another example of same signature) should be the way to vote for people unable to go to the polling station.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

      Explain how the postal ballot system might be abused then.

      Tip: Check on how it actually works first.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

        Tip: who runs the count and are they the same people with a political agenda.
        Seems official USA election ballots were overprinted with dye markers recognizabe by machine readers under specific light frequencies.
        Fake ballots may be EASY to identify.
        So that’s why the Leader of the House is refusing Republican access to counts?

        • hefner
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:44 am | Permalink

          Lynn, You really have to give us the references of the websites you are consulting, they seem to be so much fun. Please let us in and share with us your source of wisdom.

    • SecretPeople
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:16 am | Permalink

      I agree. Eric Pickles’ (was it?) report failed to address the abuse of postal voting. Impersonation when voting in-person comes a poor second. The Electoral Commission have been well aware of corruption and fraud threatening our democratic franchise for at least 6 years now – they themselves are in desperate need of reform.

  6. Stred
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    It’s the DUSA.

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:10 am | Permalink

      DUSA or just the States of America.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:43 pm | Permalink

        Pedantic pomposity.
        You never ever correct bill in a similar way.
        Why?

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Becuse my facs are more real and sourced than yours Edward

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:24 am | Permalink

            Do you mean facts?

            Are they bill?
            Who told you?

  7. Peter van LEEUWEN
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:15 am | Permalink

    It appears that Brexiteers are losing the election
    Not even the Brexiteer in chief, campaigning alongside Donald Trump in Arizona as “the King of Europe”, could turn around fate.
    This blog never distanced itself from Trump’s personality. That speaks volumes to me

    • Edward2
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:28 pm | Permalink

      What a very strange comment.
      Are you using a random rant generating computer programme?
      Trying to link Brexit to the American Presidential elections
      PS
      How do you distance the personality of a person to random comments on a blog

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:17 am | Permalink

        @Edward2: You may not have been aware of this particular Trump-Farage rally in Arizona.

        Notice how nice I am, I didn’t “rant” about interfering in a foreign (US) election!

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:05 am | Permalink

          I was aware of the rally you mentioned.

        • hefner
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:47 am | Permalink

          Wednesday 28 October, Phoenix Goodyear Airport, AZ.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

          But Pieter, in all your comments on this blog you are interfering in the internal affairs of an independent and Sovereign U.K.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:45 pm | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            Like you do with Germany all the time blaming for all the ills in the world and stating we are all German

          • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

            @Lynn Atkinson:
            By now you may have noticed that I limit my comments to where the EU (i.e. me+ 450mln other people) are involved.
            My comment above was an exception, but US elections are not an internal UK affair you will agree.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

            No you don’t bill.
            You come on here all the time sniping at others on a wide range of topics.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 11:35 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            As far as I am concerned as a British citizen the more the better , good for democracy

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:11 pm | Permalink

      Arizona is in play. Trump may still get Arizona.

      • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 3:01 pm | Permalink

        @Lynn Atkinson: Indeed. So let the counting continue, even followed by recounting and legal challenges. That is the American way

    • Fred H
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

      and the personalities of UK and EU national leaders are that much better?

      • Peter van LEEUWEN
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:20 am | Permalink

        @Fred H:
        Donald Trump has made 20,000 false or misleading claims while in office, according to the Washington Post, which identified a “tsunami of untruths” emanating from the Oval Office.

        That must be a world-beating record, wouldn’t you agree?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

          The Washington Post hates the President.

          • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 3:12 pm | Permalink

            @Edward2: actually the hate it is the other way around. Trump hates many media.
            But I have never read them branding him a “fake president”, an opinion I personally would easily have agreed with.
            By now, Trump has to add wikipedia to his hate-list, and I now know the exact number from the factchecking: 22247.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

            Well I sort of expected you to say that Peter.
            The American media hate him.
            He isn’t a professional politician.
            He isn’t a member of the lefty blob.
            He comes from the business world.
            His methods shake them and worry them.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

          You mean the Washington Post had broken a world record in misreporting? Not at all surprised!

          • Peter VAN LEEUWEN
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

            @Lynn Atkinson: you don’t believe that the Washington Post is the only media fact checking do you?
            You probably never heard of Trump being prone to lying or misleading? Interesting!

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

            Plainly you pro EU and UN globalist want him out.
            It’s OK Peter I understand.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

      😂

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

      I wonder, if and when Trump loses his Presidential Immunity, what he might be prepared to say about those UK “Persons Of Interest” connected with his circle?

      • Edward2
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

        Don’t get too excited Martin.
        He knows a lot about the opposition too.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 11:33 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          let us now just look at the facts as they are presented.

          1) Trump wants to stop voe counting in may states where Republican party offcials are represented in the counting rooms
          2) His comments are censored on all major networks and more because he according to them is lying
          3) He has launched more than 80 court cases to stop the counting or on alleged farud which has all been turned down
          4) He stated on Wednesday morning tha he had already won
          5) Most of the Republican party is now distancing themselves form him, because of his verious non-prove n allegations.
          6) And you and your particular good friend Lynn Atkinson (take your medicine) are still defending him.

          Interesting

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 4:28 pm | Permalink

            Yes interesting.
            As portrayed by the American media which is very pro Biden and anti Trump.
            Like them you seem to desperately want Biden and the Democrats in power.
            Maybe that will happen soon.
            Then you can relax and calm down.

            The thing that I will defend (and encourage) is the investigation of any irregularities in voting and vote counting.
            Presumably as a supporter of free and fair elections you would agree it must happen.

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

            Edward2, obviously I will encourage the investigation of any irregularities in voting and vote counting.
            But could I add that I really resent your comment on me not being a supporter of democracy.

            Then as Giuliani said ‘Let’s see if we can try thinking rational’. Then we might all be able to relax and calm down.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

            You need to re read my post hef and calm down.
            I never said you were not a supporter of democracy.
            My post didn’t even include the word democracy.
            Stop your false allegations.

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

            One Edward2 on 07/11/2020 at 6:59pm after one of my posts (see down below) ‘You are a supporter of democracy surely?’.

            I guess it must be another Edward2 as I cannot imagine you would have forgotten what you had written less than 24 hours ago.

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 8:33 pm | Permalink

            Oh yeah, 07/11/2020 6:59pm (lower down this page) another Edward2 I presume.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 9, 2020 at 7:31 pm | Permalink

            Now you are going back to a previous day which you didn’t reference.
            Very poor academic process.
            How am I meant to know you were referencing an historic post on another thread.
            Even your quote doesn’t support your Iclaim I said you do not support democracy.
            Pedantic wriggling by you again hef.

          • hefner
            Posted November 11, 2020 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

            ‘historic post on another thread’? At the bottom of this very page. You should try to keep a proper tally of what you are writing.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:47 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          You give no real response to the facts as they ahve been presented as the are contredictory to your own belifs it has nothing to do with the networks and the court cases which have actually been at higher courts as well, will change nothing.
          You do not have the arguments in your power nor the informatoin other then coming up with none substantiated comments about future court cases

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:28 am | Permalink

            Are you getting a bit confused bill?

            Your obsession with President Trump seems to have got you all over excited.
            It will all be sorted out very soon.
            Keep calm old chap.

  8. Mark B
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:18 am | Permalink

    Good morning

    I have not been following events. But I hope President Trump wins. For all our sakes.

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

      ‘For all our sakes’ OK that’s a very nice formula. Now what about putting a bit of meat on the bone. What positive developments would you expect from a second Trump presidency? For the UK, for international relations, for trade, for security, …
      It is good when people do not keep these things bottled up but are able to explain fully their expectations. Otherwise an outside observer would/could just think it is some empty ‘rhetoric’. So please, let us know …

      • Longinus
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 7:53 am | Permalink

        US Trade agreement
        Strong US economy
        Good relationship with Russia
        No stupid green deal. Maintenance of fracking and fuel independence reducing reliance on unstable Middle East
        No US involvement in overseas wars
        More Israeli-Arab country peace deals
        No more missile tests in North Korea
        No Chinese involvement in US politics (Biden is owned by them)
        Opposition to China’s unfair trade policies and currency manipulation
        Strong UK-US alliance

        Would appreciate similar list for a Biden government.

        • hefner
          Posted November 8, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

          ‘Biden Government’? What are you talking about? It won’t start before 20 January 2021.

  9. Lifelogic
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:34 am | Permalink

    Indeed but it is perhaps wrong to blame the polling organisations. I suspect much of the problem is people on the side of smaller government and lower taxes simply not admitting how they will vote. If for example asked “would you like to give more taxes to give poor people more benefits, healthcare etc.” – you sound rather nicer if you say yes of course. Or if asked would you like to pay more for energy to save people for a firery hell on earth (as predicted by ‘the science’ the same applies. Or if you say you would accept more immigration of desperate people.

    Perhaps also some sampling issues warping the results slightly.

    I am very dissapointed that the big state, climate alarmist “BBC think” dopes seem to have got their way with Biden looking like he has scraped home. Trump has many faults but was right in that the country needs less government, lower taxes, far less regulation, far fewer lawyers, more freedom and choice and cheap on demand energy (without renewable market rigging). Above all he was right on the climate alarmist religion.

    Boris used to be fairly sound on climate alarmism but sadly he now seems to have fallen for the unscientific exaggerations and religous lunacy completely. Perhaps the influence of the mother of his latest son. Carrie seems to be a political activist, conservationist, and works as a senior advisor to ocean conservation charity Oceana. Doubtless informed by her Theatre Studies degree. Emmotion so often wins out over logic, what actually works, science and sensible engineering in politics.

    • Ed M
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

      @Lifelogic,

      ‘Trump has many faults but was right in that the country needs less government, lower taxes, far less regulation, far fewer lawyers, more freedom and choice and cheap on demand energy (without renewable market rigging). Above all he was right on the climate alarmist religion.’

      I agree with you and Trump here – and I am a strong Republican (for economic, political, cultural and anti-abortion reasons). But ultimately politics can’t solve all these problems. And if it tries to, just makes things worse (it can do a certain amount but politicians need to be mindful of their limits).

      Our country is messed up with high taxation etc not ultimately because of politics – it goes much deeper. It’s because people aren’t taking personal responsibility for their lives. And that’s ultimately down to things like how they are brought up by their parents, education, culture (or lack of), and so on. Politics plays a role – but only to a certain degree.

      In other words, there’s no easy solution (but we can still do things). And the solution mainly lies outside politics (although politics still has an important role).

      • Ed M
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

        ‘Our country is messed up with high taxation’

        – And much of the Western World – not jus the UK.

        We ultimately need to return to our traditional Graeco-Roman / Judaeo-Christian values and roots.

    • Original Richard
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

      “Boris used to be fairly sound on climate alarmism but sadly he now seems to have fallen for the unscientific exaggerations and religous lunacy completely.”

      It is possible that the public having seen the Covid-19 “scenarios” will be inclined to see the global warming “predictions “also as “scenarios”.

  10. Lifelogic
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:44 am | Permalink

    Next week it seems Boris is to launch his ten point plan for a zero emmissions economy. Roger Harrabin informs us on Today this AM. Will he also be telling us his ten point plan for national tractor production?

    Leave the market largely alone to do its good works – you daft, deluded socialist. But many thanks for saving us from the appalling T May and J Corbyn.

  11. Lifelogic
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:02 am | Permalink

    Hopefully the Senate will be able stop Biden (should he gets in) from his wasteful spending and so called “green energy” agenda. But who will stop Boris from similar lunacy no one it seems? Parliament is stuffed with climate alarmist loons only about 5% are rational climate realists.

  12. BeebTax
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:07 am | Permalink

    The resilience of voters after nearly 4 years of being told their President is a crook, a fascist, a rascist, is sexist, coludes with foreign powers and goodness knows what else, is commendable.

    In the Senate and Congessional elections the Republicans are also doing better than expected. In these races the Trump personality factor does not play such a large part. I think these results indicate that across the country the average citizen is conservative and hopefully that will make it harder for the radical left to run amok during the next 4 years.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

      Trump won double the black votes in 2020 as in 2016. Its killing the ‘anti-racists’.

      • hefner
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

        LL, you and the mention of the degrees that people got twenty or thirty years ago… Have you not evolved since the obtention of your multiple BScs? Perhaps not …

        If you want to apply some of your pointy comments, have you ever been curious about what DJT actually got from U. of Pennsylvania in May 1968? He boasted of his presence at Wharton School but was actually unable to get a MBA from that famous school. And the BSc he got from U.Penn. was not even ‘cum laude’, so no top of the class at all as he had been pretending for years.
        He also appears having started in life with a $60m loan from his father, not the $1m loan he claimed for years.
        A bit economical with the truth or are those only peccadillos among the 20,000+ other lies?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:45 pm | Permalink

          Your rant is in the wrong place hef.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:44 pm | Permalink

            Edward 2

            It is actually very pinted and relavant but you do not wish to see it as it is contradictory to you r point of view and assumptoins

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:30 am | Permalink

            Gosh you are busy bill.
            Try to type something we can all understand.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:23 pm | Permalink

      It’s because of the rioting.

      The antics of BLM is not much liked by most Americans, including black Americans.

  13. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:08 am | Permalink

    Also Biden was heavily favoured by the press with things hidden from view while Trump was assailed from all angles.

    Also…

    Why does the BBC say “Postal votes always go Left/Labour/Democrat.”

    So why do they go that way ? Is the BBC not the slightest bit curious about that ? (My boys got two votes when at university during the last election.)

    And why is the BBC seemingly enthusiastic about women’s suffrage but reticent when it comes to the male head of a household ordering the females how to vote ?

    And are we REALLY about to make it a crime to express the ‘wrong’ views in the privacy of our homes ? At a dinner party debate with liberals we had around last weekend they really had not heard of the issues we came out with. And that was that white boys who grow up never having known their fathers are now the lowest achieving and underprivileged in our society – and that these are not racial problems but cultural ones.

    Newly arrived races who have strong family bonds have done so well that they are buying up vast swathes of Surrey and good luck to them.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

      Maybe postal votes favour Biden also because Trump requested his voters to vote in person, and not to use mail in?

  14. Brian Tomkinson
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:40 am | Permalink

    JR: “This makes it impossible for them to see the appeal of policies geared to freedom, free enterprise, self respect, and healthy scepticism of centralised power in governments and international bodies.”
    Or perhaps they can see and fear the appeal of such policies and are determined to suppress such views. We saw much the same in Parliament here yesterday with a few honourable exceptions including our kind host who voted to take away our freedom and liberty and take us ever further toweards an autoritarian state enforced by the police.
    Thank you, Sir John, for standing against this developing tyranny.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

      +1

  15. Frances Truscott
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:44 am | Permalink

    Didnt H Clinton win the popular vote and lose the election?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:14 pm | Permalink

      Very much so, as did G.W. Bush.

      Interesting how it’s always Republicans who benefit, eh?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

        *Gore, sorry.

      • Longinus
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 7:58 am | Permalink

        Staunch remainers defending democracy after fighting it for 4 years against numerous votes, you couldn’t make it up.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:15 pm | Permalink

      It depends on how many of her ‘popular’ vote in the Democratic strongholds were ‘manufactured’. This time they knew they had to move the manufacture to the swing states. So they have been caught!

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:11 pm | Permalink

        Give it a rest.

        People will think that you have quite lost it.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

          ever look in a mirror?

  16. Alan Jutson
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:49 am | Permalink

    What a fiasco the count seems from afar, claim and counter claim about the count, claim and counter claim about the actual correct completion of the forms, with Postal votes at the centre of the argument again.

    Me thinks the time has come to restrict the use of postal votes to only those who are incapable of voting in person through illness, pre-booked holiday, or business travel.

    Just think of the chaos if it was done on line, verification and checking almost impossible.

    We surely have enough experience in this country about postal fraud over the years with intimidation and voter farming, but is anything being done to curtail it ?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:11 pm | Permalink

      The fiasco is, that thanks to the constitutionally built-in Republican gerrymander, the US system is not one person one vote.

      So a candidate can win the popular vote by millions – as did both Clinton and Gore – and yet lose the election.

      I wonder what you would say if, say, France elected its presidents on this basis? Or if the UK held referendums on it?

      • Edward2
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

        You like your mate Andy fail to understand the USA collegiate voting system.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          No, actually Andy did partially understand teh US system and you did not explain yourself very well

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

            Odd because it was a post of a few words.
            And still you cannot understand it bill

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:30 am | Permalink

          We understand it.

          It is preposterous.

      • graham1946
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

        Oh, you mean like the election where UKIP got 4 million votes and no seats? You didn’t mind that one did you? The gerrymander in the UK is the two party system of musical chairs.

        • rose
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:24 pm | Permalink

          OR the elections in which the Conservatives win the popular vote but lose the Parliament.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:29 am | Permalink

          That is a failure of the UK system, as is the present eighty-seat Tory majority.

          • Fred H
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

            the system didn’t fail – concentrate on the calibre and morals of those elected.

      • Alan Jutson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:45 pm | Permalink

        Martin

        I think you will find that France does not allow postal voting because of the high possibility of fraud.

        The US system is the US system, its up to them which system they choose to use but postal voting has proven in the past in many countries to be open to fraud, voter farming, lost ballot papers and the like, and even people voting twice in person and by post.

        Whatever system is used all you should want is honest votes to be counted so the result whatever it is, is fair to all contestants.

  17. MPC
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

    You seem to suggest that the pollsters in the US favoured Biden and got their figures wrong, but it looks as though Biden will win nonetheless. I am now dreading the Climate Conference hosted by the UK next year as this government falls even further in line with the ‘settled science’ of the elites as represented by Biden. Prepare for even more damagingly costly announcements by our government in the run up to that conference and after it.

  18. Narrow Shoulders
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

    If commentators and the vocal minority will not allow real opinions to be voiced then they will never be able to count the true feelings within society.

    The worthies will always be surprised by secret ballots so I expect the secrecy to come under threat at some point.

  19. agricola
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:02 am | Permalink

    If Donald Trump loses it will not be because of what he has achieved as President but because he is his own worst advocate. Our upsetter of the status quo, Nigel Farage, is however just the opposite. Highly articulate in a language that the majority understand. Should Boris settle for an inadequate half Brexit, let him beware of what he is up against and Nigel’s talent for collating it.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:25 pm | Permalink

      It will be because of election fraud.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:48 pm | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson,

        Please , give us some proof of the election fraud?

    • IanT
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

      Yes, there is a good reason that Trump is the Marmite President – he is his own worst enemy. But that doesn’t mean that he has been ineffective, most of his policies (if communicated better) would have been good selling points. A calmer Trump would have won…

      But our left-leaning media hate him with a vengeance and as far as they are concerned he can do no good. But he has improved the lives of poorer Americans, was right to complain that Europe was letting the US take all the financial burden of protecting them, was right to encourage US companies to move their money and work back to the US – and right to call Corona the “Chinese Virus” – because (intentionally or not) it came out of one of their Labs.

      Frankly, Biden seems a much nicer guy but his policies are of the Left and I suspect that he won’t last the full four years – so then we will see what a real “Socialist President” looks like, because Harris will be at the tiller.

      • Ed M
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

        I’m a strong Republican (for reasons of economy, politics, culture and no to abortion). And I have a lot of sympathy for Trump. Partly, because he was without his mother from the age of 2 t0 3 (she was ill) and his father was able to offer zero support to him (except throw money at the problem).

        It’s scientifically well-known that this kind of thing can have devastating impact on someone’s mental state later on in life – in this case, Donald Trump always trying to grab attention – and not wanting to feel vulnerable.

        Donald Trump should never had entered politics. He doesn’t have the mental stability for it. If America is going to be great, then Americans have to roll their sleeves up and not try and take gimmicky, short-cuts – but make America great through hard, honest, creative and GROWN-UP effort.

        • Ed M
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

          ‘but make America great through hard, honest, creative and GROWN-UP effort’ – exact same principle for here in the UK.

        • hefner
          Posted November 11, 2020 at 10:12 pm | Permalink

          Thanks a lot for your comment. I really find interesting that you have not been called a ‘Trump hater’ by some other contributors.

  20. Andy
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    The poll that matters is the popular vote. And it shows – very clearly – that Joe Biden won. Democrats have now won the most votes in every presidential election, bar one, for the last 30 years. Twice they have been denied the presidency by the electoral college – the same shenanigans will be tried this time too.

    For me the main difference though is class. Joe Biden came out, looked presidential, urged calm and asked for every vote to be counted. That’ll show he won by many millions – even if the electoral college goes in Trump’s favour. The stroppy Oompa Loompa came out and accused everyone of cheating. He, falsely, claimed that the vote was rigged. Every Republican I have heard interviewed has condemned his outrageous comment. Even if he ‘wins’ again – this failed president has simply cemented his place as the worst occupant the White House has ever had. A two time popular vote loser.

    As Michelle Obama said ‘when they go low you go high’. And there is no doubt that the Trumpists and their Brexiteers cousins have gone very low. This is why you will always lose in the end. Society is better than you.

    • Richard1
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

      you should pay more attention. the supposed ‘white supremecist’ has increased his vote significantly amongst blacks, hispanics and women. Biden has won thanks to the votes of white people. especially old white men – your favourite demographic. the republicans meanwhile have held the senate and increased seats in the house of reps.

      Of course the popular vote itself is skewed by the electoral collage system, as there’s no point the republican candidate campaigning eg in NY or California. If the selection was based on the popular vote the campaign would be completely different and focus on big cities. with different results.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:31 pm | Permalink

      You still completely fail to understand how the American Collegiate election system works.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:18 pm | Permalink

      Let’s take all the manufactured votes out of the equation and see if Biden is ahead. If Trump is ahead in the popular vote as he was almost all night (I stayed up and watched every movement in the numbers) will you accept that?

    • Longinus
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

      ‘The poll that matters is the popular vote.’
      Except Brexit, you hypocrite.

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:26 pm | Permalink

      Only it was you that went low. The first thing you did was renege on your promise to go with the vote when it didn’t deliver the result you wanted.

      Then you – for example – offer space to refugees at the direct expense of others and not your own.

      There is nothing high or virtuous about being generous with other people’s money.

  21. Nivek
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:12 am | Permalink

    “The polls said there would be a 10% gap between Mr Trump and Mr Biden. There is a 1.8% one.”

    Given what President Trump is apparently tweeting about the election, I would expect him to pursue the matter for at least as long, and as far, as Mr. Gore in 2000.

  22. rick hamilton
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

    With Biden in the White House the screeching mobs on the left who complain endlessly about the unfairness of everything will have the novel experience of living under socialism.
    We British have endured several bouts of this clapped out ideology and have learned the hard way to reject it at the ballot box, at least for now. I wonder how many will be saying in two or three years time “Come back Trump, all is forgiven”.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

      Harris is going to reverse the Trump tax cuts ASAP, so it will be a disaster from the moment he walks in. If that is what the USA wants and votes for, I have no sympathy, but for these criminal, globalist, anarchists to steal the USA from its electors cannot be allowed, whatever the cost.

      • rick hamilton
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:05 am | Permalink

        Indeed. Trump is the only real leader in the free world who will stand up to the evil of Communist Chinese expansionism and turn back the tidal wave of woke tosh that is undermining belief in our own values and historical achievements.

  23. J Mitchell
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:17 am | Permalink

    I think that the pollsters need to find some way of discounting for media narrative. If people are constantly told that they are stupid and beyond the pale when they hold a particular view or support a particular campaign/candidate, is it any surprise that they keep those views to themselves until in the privacy of the voting booth?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

      Please link to a major article in a widely-read paper, which makes the assertion that Trump/brexit voters are stupid etc.?

      There are many right-wing papers, which claim endlessly – as do you – that the Left are saying these things about voters, but that is an entirely different matter.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:39 pm | Permalink

        Have a read of andy and your posts on here.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          I do know I asked too much of what you are able to deliver.
          I am really sorry

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:53 am | Permalink

            I accept you apology.
            Thanks bill.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

        Martin don’t ponce about as though butter would not melt in your mouth, you abuse Brexiteers incessantly. We were targeted and terrorised especially before the Referendum. At a dinner a senior Judges wife complained to an Oxbridge educated friend of mine from the north, (who is in Debretts and an enthusiastic Brexiteer) that ‘her son would be deprived of working on the Continent for the Globalists because of unwashed, uneducated northern plebs’.
        We have suffered Brexitism from the likes of you and Andy and worse!

        • bill brown
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          And some of us are still suffering from your statements with no facts, factual evidence or sources, behiind most of what you write. And now I am actually being nice to you

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:10 am | Permalink

            Yet you post regularly on here and never do what you ask of others.

      • Al
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

        Our host may not allow links so I suggest you look up the following articles as a brief sample from some very widely-read sites:

        Irish times “Brexiteers prove that stupid is as stupid does”
        Mirror “Brexit means stupid – so who voted for this?”
        Huffpost “Brexit: The Most Stupid Idea of the Century”

        For more similar articles, a quick news search returns many more.

  24. Excalibur
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    The prime concern of a Biden victory should be that it puts Kamala Harris one heart beat from the Presidency. A radical ‘progressive’ and a product of that hot bed of radical left wing opinion, the University of California, there is potential for even greater division .

    • Fred H
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

      but she brings votes to Democrats that otherwise would be missing. The concern should be will Biden survive the 4 year term?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:15 pm | Permalink

        Yes, that’s a perfectly valid concern.

        It’s not the end of the world one bit if he doesn’t though, is it?

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

          Not if you are a Communist determined to destroy Capitalism.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 11:27 am | Permalink

            Lynn Atkinson

            So who is the communist?

        • Fred H
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

          Running mates are often not well qualified to take over should the President be unable to continue.

          • Martin in Cardiff
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

            Not always. Thank goodness we never got Dan Quayle. And that really is saying something.

            I wonder how Vietnam would have unfolded if not for LBJ?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:52 pm | Permalink

            Far more peaceably.

          • Fred H
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:59 pm | Permalink

            read again – I wrote ‘often’ not always.
            Maybe USA would have beaten the ‘Cong” without the horrendous body bags LBJ escalated. who knows? – – you don’t.
            Anyway Noxon had the sense to give it up.

  25. Caterpillar
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:25 am | Permalink

    What U.K. might learn from U.S.A election.
    1. Polls are rubbish because people are scared to express views:-
    a. U.K. needs to actively promote free speech and rational conversation, currently U.K. is not just drifting but actively moving in the wrong direction. In the U.S.A appears that people are afraid to say they are Trump / Rep voters for various fears (colleagues/friends, job position, violence etc.) Currently free speech seems to be largely limited by a woke/progressive/left, but it could equally become challenged by a right, religious or other group e.g. we are living under a Conservative Government that prevents us meeting.
    b. There shouldn’t be pre-election polls due to biasing effects.
    c. There needs to be an honest relationship between citizens and institutions.

    2. Voting needs to be, and seen to be, fair and valid. Situations in which unrequested postal ballots are sent out, proof of posting by election date is not required (benefit of doubt being given on delivery times, I.D. etc.) and searches for ballots being ordered is not an example for U.K. to follow. U.K. needs to stick with and grow attendance at polling stations (with I.D. as other democratically developed countries and painted finger as supposedly less democratically experienced countries.)

    3. Effects of migration are mixed (attraction vs escape but maintaining political view in each case?)
    a. Arizona appears to be an example of where migration from areas of less successful policy to an area of more successful policy has led to a state flipping.
    b. Cuban Americans in Florida suggest people who have escaped socialism don’t vote for it.

    What I worry about from U.S.A election.
    1. The progress the Trump administration made through opportunity zones and funding HBCUs will be lost (http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2020/10/27/the-presidential-election/#comment-1170188) and more recent discussions on how to tackle the prison issues (some of which has been suggested go back to Biden’s war on crack – I haven’t fact checked this) and as ‘discussed’ with James and Mitchel (at same link) I worry about in which direction Biden will take foreign policy.
    2. Worried that ‘the West’ has lost a leader that will go either low or high in response to other world leaders going low (the only go high when they go low approach doesn’t appear great looking around the world).
    3. Obviously worried about how Biden will face to E.U. and U.K. and knock on to CPTPP (and that at least publicly he appears to have a one-sided reading of Good Friday Agreement).
    4. In general worried that Democrats will continue with virtue signalling and identity politics, continuing a move away from fixing socio-economic problems … and some in U.K. will continue to copy. However given where Republicans picked up votes and the background mix of new Republican politicians, this might (wishful thinking here) persuade a reflection by Democrats (but I guess this will depend on where the Senate ends up ).

    • hefner
      Posted November 7, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      Thanks a lot, very thoughtful .

  26. Chris Dark
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    The postal-voter fraud has been massive. Not much more to say, really. This has been an exceptionally dirty election and as they say, it aint over till it’s over.

    • Sea_Warrior
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

      I’m tempted to agree with your assertion – but Trump has a legal mountain to climb. He will need to prove – and prove quickly – industrial-quantity fraud and/or maladministration in the swing states. Conservatives facing ‘dirty tricks’ by their opponents really should address the problem, by law changes, BEFORE the event.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

        He has the evidence and can prove it.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:43 pm | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          So kindly share the proof with us as you seem to certain

        • Sea_Warrior
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

          I hope he can. But I fear that the surveillance effort put in by the Republicans won’t have been thorough enough to prove the problem was big enough for the courts to make rulings declaring elections void.
          I wonder how much checking of the electoral register takes place over here. I’ve just updated my register entry but don’t recall having to offer information that would have established, for instance, my nationality and entitlement to a vote. I have never had an auditor turn up on my doorstep and ask to see my passport. Our system has holes that Parliament seems not to care about.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

      Evidence?

      Oh, you don’t have any.

  27. Nigel
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:28 am | Permalink

    This Conservative Government is delivering big government.

  28. Dave Andrews
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

    It’s looking like a Biden win. Well, with 4 years of wrecking the US economy to come, the Republicans could come back next time and win big, if they can put up a half decent candidate. That’s unless the Democrats can expand their voting base of wasters and hangers-on.

    • JohnK
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

      Dave:

      That’s how left wing parties usually grow their electorate. If immigrants voted for right wing parties, Labour and the Democrats would not be so keen on them.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:14 pm | Permalink

        +1 but if you have control of the Count and can add ballots as you like, you no longer need immigrants, who as they prosper, annoyingly become Republicans and Conservatives.

  29. Caterpillar
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    Off-topic:

    What are the chances that Hancock-Sunak (switched off supply) & Bailey (loads-a-money) approaches will lead to stagflation?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:22 pm | Permalink

      High.

  30. middle ground
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:41 am | Permalink

    Surely the intelligent approach would be to wait for the result before making a comment that criticises more than half the American voting public while showing support for a man who represents the worst aspects of American character. He may still win but in my view, the sooner he goes the better. The moderate, sensible Republican politicians can then re take control of their party.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

      May as well vote Democrat then.

    • JohnK
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:39 pm | Permalink

      Middle Ground:

      That would be the Republicans like John McCain and Mitt Romney would it?

  31. Roy Grainger
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:46 am | Permalink

    It has got to the stage where the polling is so inaccurate it probably needs to be limited by law in the run-up to election day. Showing Biden (or anyone) with a 10% landslide lead will surely suppress the vote for his opponent amongst people who think it’s not worth bothering to vote. This is a known effect, there are thousands of Republicans in California who don’t vote in elections because the Democrats are always very likely to win there. Of course the polling organisations have enough Ferguson-type factors they can adjust to get any polling result they want so it could be deliberate.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

      California was called for Biden as the polls closed.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

        By the “desks”, not by the State.

      • hefner
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        So what, California is mail-in voting only and allows early-counting. So I would guess it is rather easy to have a precise idea of how people have voted at the closure of poll stations. No need for a left-wing conspiracy to explain such a thing. And if Californian Republicans do not care to vote, that’s their problem. If with a dime of common sense they would vote to increase the national tally for the Reps if anything.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 10, 2020 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

          But California isn’t a swing State.
          So your comment isn’t relevant.

          • hefner
            Posted November 11, 2020 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

            If you were to read and more importantly understand the chain of comments by different people on this blog, you might have realised that my comment was an addition to Lynn’s comment explaining there was nothing strange in having the Californian results very soon after the polls closed.
            But obviously you are so keen on snuffing out all dissent … that you look rather out of depth in any exchange requiring a bit of information on a given topics.
            Do you actually realise you are most of the time completely irrelevant.

            But go ahead, Sir John’s blog is open to really anybody whatever their level of comprehension.

    • Merlinthehammer
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

      I too think Boris has been waiting on the USA vote because, frankly, he has lost his bottle. He dare just about stick his neck out if Trump has got his back, but without that, he will visibly deflate and we’ll end up with BRINO. I guessed this was a possibility when he and Gove went roaring in at the 11th hour instead of leaving Frost to conclude either way his fantastic efforts v the EU.

      The bright breezy days of last December have vanished… Boris & Co have a huge globalist thumb on their heads, and we are almost certainly about to get shafted. THEN it’ll get ‘interesting’…

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:17 pm | Permalink

      Well it resulted in the highest ever turnout for both sides.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        When I’m dead at least count my vote as a Conservative one! No one realised at the time, but Biden’s biggest election rally was when he visited the cemetery!

        • Fred H
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

          Lynn I seriously hope you will be with us a long time yet, but in that future sadly wanting to be remembered as a Conservative will not be thought of a great epitaph.

        • rose
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:05 pm | Permalink

          It paid off. The dead are still voting for Biden in droves.

  32. Bryan Harris
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:48 am | Permalink

    Yes – the establishment media are biased — we knew that already, so we shouldn’t expect anything honest from them.
    The media has gone down the same path as the Democrats and the labour party in this respect – hardly surprising when both countries massively educate to a socialist standard.

    There were several reports of how some media invented the poll numbers to make it look like Biden was more popular than Trump.
    The world will never recover if Biden wins, and he will only win if the Democrats are allowed to get away with the massive amount of cheating with mail-in-Votes.

    • bill brown
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

      Bryan Harris

      Please, kindly show us some real proof of your statement on the postal votes, so it amounts to the difference of more than 2,5% in the votes?

      • Bryan Harris
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:43 am | Permalink

        You’ll have to go find it yourself – but avoid the establishment media – Our host is not keen on too many links on here.

        Somehow I doubt though that your views would change, no matter how much ‘proof’ is out there… So no point in you keep asking for proof

        • bill brown
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

          Bryan Harris

          thank do not make unsubstantiated comments

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

            Open your eyes and look for proof yourself.
            It is the path to enlightenment and personal growth.

          • Bryan Harris
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 9:43 am | Permalink

            @Edward2 Exactly

            BB like most of those on the left wants to stop any bad news which they are blind to by insinuation…

            The next few days/ weeks will surely provide enough evidence of how crooked the Democrats are that even the MSM may allude to it…. but never forget that the MSM is a tool of the left wing

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

      Well, Biden is leading the popular vote by nigh on four million votes, so, I don’t know about you, but to me it means that he is more popular than Trump.

      Your silly claims about voting fraud are without any evidential base.

      Aren’t they?

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

        I make that (and correct me if I’m wrong):

        49% Trump vs 51% Biden.

        Remainers contend that an even wider margin for a win deserves deserves to be ignored.

        I’ll tell you why Trump is considered a ‘divisive’ President (he isn’t.) It’s that when the Left lose they never ever accept the result and they kick off violently.

        It’s the Left who are always divisive.

        When you win the votes we (I) accept it and make the best of it.

        And no. I’m not the centre of the Universe. I consider myself to be a social Conservative of the moderate right (someone else is at the centre of the Universe) – doubtless you’d call me far right.

        A country needs two legs to walk in a straight line.

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

          Nah, it was Farage who said “a 52:48 result would not be finished business by any means”.

          The UK has quite properly now left the European Union.

          Its post-exit relationship with it is now rightly a matter for competing party politics, and will be until the UK rejoined, if it ever did.

          You will hear far, far more about it than you ever did during our forty odd years of membership

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

        No they are not.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

          By the way, Zimbabwe has threatened sanctions against the USA if the elections are not ‘free and fair’!

      • Fred H
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:38 pm | Permalink

        But Hilary polled 3m more than Trump last time, and she is openly despised all over USA.

      • rose
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:03 pm | Permalink

        More popular in New York and California. We already knew that. It is not a reason for destroying the Electoral College which was set up for a good reason.

  33. Lifelogic
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:51 am | Permalink

    Rod Little as usual is spot on “on ‘protecting’ our dire NHS and Christmas – in the Spectator today:-

    “There is no Santa Claus, Sir Patrick”

  34. ChrisS
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    Biden is very likely to win the US election but crucially will not gain control of the Senate.

    Just possibly this might be an acceptable outcome as far as the UK is concerned.
    Biden will not be able to put through the most extreme parts of his economic agenda so the US economy might continue to move forward at a faster rate than the moribund EU with the UK following in its wake.

    I also suspect that Merkel and Co will get a shock when they find that the Democrats are no more sympathetic than Mr Trump in continuing to spend billions of their taxpayers dollars on defending Europe when the Europeans contribute so little.

    It is true that a trade deal with the USA is going to be more difficult but I have always been concerned about our ability to negotiate an acceptable deal with an administration led by such a hard-nosed businessman as Donald Trump. Particularly as vested interests in the UK are so stupidly set against allowing the import of US beef and chicken which millions of UK visitors to the US are more than happy to consume and enjoy while on holiday !

  35. Translator
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:54 am | Permalink

    There is a fast-growing need for a new party to deal with what the grassroots want… and I believe such a party is waiting in the wings for the UK

  36. Lifelogic
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:55 am | Permalink

    Well done to the alas just 34 MPs:-

    Adam Afriyie, Steve Baker (teller), Peter Bone, Sir Graham Brady, Steve Brine, Sir Christopher Chope, Philip Davies, Jonathan Djanogly, Jackie Doyle-Price, Richard Drax, Sir Iain Duncan Smith, Marcus Fysh, Chris Green, James Grundy, Mark Harper, Gordon Henderson, Philip Hollobone (teller), David Jones, Tim Loughton, Craig Mackinlay, Stephen McPartland, Esther McVey, Huw Merriman, Anne Marie Morris, Sir Mike Penning, John Redwood, Andrew Rosindell, Henry Smith, Sir Desmond Swayne, Sir Robert Syms, Derek Thomas, Sir Charles Walker, Craig Whittaker, William Wragg.

    • Lifelogic
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:23 am | Permalink

      Even Theresa May finally said something sensible. This on the dodgy dossier of 4000 deaths a day project fear & blatant lies and propaganda.

  37. Ian @Barkham
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    Then again, would I ever tell a pollster my real intention – that would be a silly thing to do.

    As an aside and it follows throughout the World, the obsession with creating a political class system has created a world were democracy is pushed to the side for the benefit of a few egos. Just as with the UK, while there are some people that still believe in serving the people, the US in its leaders have adopted the creed of ego above creditability. With either party in the US where they the best candidates? – surely not – I pity the US citizen as I do those of us in the UK who are now trapped into putting up with this charade.

    In the US however the House of Representatives and the Senate are still on the whole people elected and on the whole are there to serve. Fortunately the power in the US rest in those houses.

  38. James Bertram
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:07 am | Permalink

    ‘Those who want their personal freedoms will always oppose the big government model. Those who want more government control and action to right the wrongs they see around them will never accept the demands of those who simply want their own right to lead their lives without more government demands.’

    Excellent summary.
    Sadly, as the vote yesterday showed, there are only 39 MPs in this parliament who are not prepared to lockdown the country and interfere in our lives in a totalitarian manner. Time to sweep all but the 39 away. Hopefully The Reform Party will represent the majority of the people’s wishes for small government – certainly none of the major parties stand for this.

  39. George Brooks.
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

    Up until my early forties I regarded the government of the day as a bunch of senior gentlemen from all walks of life trying to rebuild this country after two world wars. I didn’t think of asking them (or it) for anything as it was down to me to find a job and earn some money in order to live, as I had none after coming out of the army.

    It was when Jaques Delors came on the scene that I realised we were sliding down a slippery slope into an EU dictatorship. In those days, some 30 to 40 years ago it didn’t matter much to us whether the US chose a Republican or Democrat as president because both parties had similar policies on business and commerce and that country was growing quickly.

    Over the same period illegal immigration has swamped both the US and the UK and successive governments have tried to do more and more to both look after their nationals and be accommodating to the immigrants. This has led to a vast number becoming totally reliant on the State and contributing less and less to the common good of the country they live in.

    Both the US and the UK are on the edge of falling into an abyss of total State control and ultimately bankruptcy but for once we are slightly ahead of the US on our escape route with Brexit. Let’s hope the US decides to escape with Trump.

  40. ukretired123
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:11 am | Permalink

    Excellent summary as usual Sir John making sense of nonsense pumped out by the MSM at great expense too!

  41. Everhopeful
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    Yes, well…as mentioned by Lynn Atkinson yesterday the election was MOST odd anyway.
    170,000 votes “found” at 3am and not a one for Trump who had up to the point been winning by thousands in Milwaukee!
    Reports of similar other states.
    Trump seems determined to pursue the matter. He KNEW it would happen.
    Power to his elbow.
    Republicans have at least got the Senate…good. Would Biden be able to get much done anyway? Lame duck.

  42. jim
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    Some pundit said ‘America is a 50/50 country’. Vote prediction is the psephological equivalent of tossing a coin.

    Then journalists and political pundits tend to work closely with those in power, for most journalists the sight of power being manipulated is a disgusting sight. Not surprisingly many journos are a bit anti government. Apart of course from those journos who work for certain well known media with deep pockets that support has-been politicians and hope-to-be politicians.

    So overall, one would expect an anti government bias from political pundits and aim away from their prognostications, might as well read the horoscopes otherwise.

  43. villaking
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

    Sir John, isn’t it rather silly to suggest that if opinion polls get it wrong they must be biased against your world view? Opinion polls are nearly always wrong and they don’t always underestimate just the right of centre parties’ appeal. The polls underestimated Corbyn’s Labour quite significantly in 2017 and they didn’t expect Wilson to win in ’74 for example. And if the mainstream media simply reports what the pollsters tell them, that is the opposite of bias. It would only be biased if they suppressed opinion polls they didn’t like.

  44. Martin in Cardiff
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:17 am | Permalink

    Biden is moderate right wing. Trump is a right wing, nationalist, libertarian populist.

    There will not be dramatic changes in the economic or legal life of the nation, though armed militant right wing groups will not enjoy the same support from the President if Biden were elected, as seems likely.

    Sanders was the only contender offering anything that could be reasonably termed Left. Had he been nominated, then I think that he would have walked it too.

    He would have brought material freedom – as distinct from John’s “freedom”, that is, for the rich only – to many more US people than Trump ever would.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:33 pm | Permalink

      Trump reduced taxes on blue collar workers by nearly 3000 dollars a year.
      Created millions of jobs.
      Reduced energy costs.

      Certainly not for the rich only.

      • Fred H
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

        He also sent all workers 1200 dollars a while ago. Even one of my sons-in-law living/married/working in UK 15 years.
        What a kind man!

    • No Longer Anonymous
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:28 pm | Permalink

      Right wing compared to you, of course.

      You are NOT at the centre of the Universe.

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

        Left wing compared to you, of course.

        You are NOT at the centre of the Universe.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

          Right wing compared to you of course.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:26 am | Permalink

            Edward 2

            Are you getting confused again about the left wing definitions? give me a call an I will assist

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

            Why not give us your definition bill.
            Rather than your usual sarcastic little comments.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

            Edward 2

            Even I gave you a definition you would end up getting too confused and it owuld not help you

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:56 am | Permalink

            That old excuse.

            Go away and stop trolling bill.

        • No Longer Anonymous
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

          Naaa-na-na-naaa-na.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:38 am | Permalink

            no longer Anonymous

            thank you for a most intellectual response, I am sure even you can do better

        • ukretired123
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:52 am | Permalink

          Martin in Confusion….. .point scoring petty normal modus ..

    • rose
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:59 pm | Permalink

      Trump and all his family are New York Democrats. That is why the others hate them so. That is also why senior Republicans hate them. He is way to the left of the Republican party.

      Does the traditional Leninist “socialism in one country” count as right wing nationalism to you?

  45. JoolsB
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:18 am | Permalink

    There seems to be a lot of controversy over postal votes which are always going to be open to fraud and for some reason seem to come mostly from Democrat voters or in this country Labour voters which is the very reason Labour introduced them in the first place when they were in power? Pandemics aside, except for the elderly and infirm, if someone cannot get their a—se to the polling booth every four years, then they should lose their right to vote.

    • SM
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 2:59 pm | Permalink

      But what if you are temporarily living or working too far from home to vote in person?

      Or if you have booked a holiday months before the election is announced?

      Why should such electors be denied their vote?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        They can appoint a Proxy to vote on their behalf. The election is in a stated day, you can’t vote when it suits you! If voting is less important than your holiday and you can’t be bothered to appoint a proxy, then yes they should lose their vote. And dead people should never be allowed to vote! Seems they always vote Democrat!

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:34 pm | Permalink

          Judicial Watch finds 1.8million ‘ghost voters’ in 29 states. (Reported in the Washington Times Martin, Andy, Bull). And the scrutiny has not really begun yet.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:36 pm | Permalink

      I agree.

      Go voting should be a privilege and not a right.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

        +1 we need a ‘qualified franchise’; lots of qualifications e.g taxpayer, education, etc. etc. Cecil Rhodes mooted this idea for Southern Africa to overcome the race issue.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:32 pm | Permalink

      There are postal votes quite reasonably applied for and sent in. There are also Mail-in where the papers for current tenancy residents arrive and often previous tenants have voting papers there too. In the latter anyone can it seems fill in the vote paper and submit fraudulent votes.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:50 pm | Permalink

        But what about the ballots which are not valid ballots? Millions of them printed in China?

      • Martin in Cardiff
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

        Doesn’t quite work like that, Fred.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

          Take it up with the phone-in caller on the BBC 5 Live from Erie County, Pennsylvania. A 24 year old tenanting, who claimed his address Mail-in received his own voting forms and those of previous tenants. Thought he could easily make several votes with them and not get caught.

    • M Davis
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

      Hear, hear!

  46. Will in Hampshire
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    I can agree that once again the US polling industry has failed. For a country with such extraordinary technological & analytical resources this is surprising after the trauma of 2016. I don’t know the reason why, but here are two theories about what might be going on:

    Theory 1 – big media companies don’t actually want an accurate polling industry. If the polls were routinely +/- 1% through the campaign there would be no drama on election day. So they quietly buy-up and close-down innovative polling companies that are trying better analytical approaches.

    Theory 2- the concept of polling itself is flawed because it assumes that each voter is willing to be open and honest about their preferences in a conversation – what if it isn’t true? If populists are ashamed of their decision to vote Trump (or – making the link made by our host in his post – Brexit) they may not admit to an intention to do so.

    Leaves me wondering why it is that some populist voters might be ashamed of what they’ve decided to do in the privacy of the voting booth.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

      Yes, the basis of polling is also undermined when a sufficient part of the electorate are so in thrall to conspiracy theories that they suspect that the pollsters are part of their nightmarish imaginings too.

      There are various explanations and they may all form slices of the pie chart.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:25 pm | Permalink

        The evidence like the truth will come out soon.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:37 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Yes like the 80 court cases the Trump administration has raised and they have all been thrown out or lost

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 10:14 am | Permalink

            Months to go yet bill.
            Lower courts.
            Many challenges will go up to higher corts.

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

            Not that long. It looks to me as if 8th of December is the deadline for actions to be handled by State Courts. And if State Courts do not require a ‘revision’ by the Supreme Court, I’m afraid that these legal actions initiated by DJT will stop there and then.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 9, 2020 at 7:27 pm | Permalink

            December 14th is a quoted cut off.
            Unless the Supreme Court take time to rule.
            So you are wrong yet again.

          • hefner
            Posted November 10, 2020 at 11:05 am | Permalink

            14/12 is the date the electoral boards vote following the 8th December cut-off for potential State Court acceptance of complaints.

            Anyway 3/11 to even 14/12 (40 days) does not qualify as ‘monthS to go yet’.
            What fun it is to rebuke you at least 3 out of 4 times. And you ask for more, wonderful.

            Are you a follower of Leopold von S-M?

  47. graham1946
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:22 am | Permalink

    Biden is anti British, pro EU and China. The US deal has gone through several stages and will not take long to finalise. Biden may well stop it. If he does, we can manage. We make a profit from out trade with the USA which we don’t with the EU. If we lose the US deal we can survive without cheap agricultural products and duff cars.

    • Andy
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:12 pm | Permalink

      “We will survive.”

      Hardly what you promised in 2016.

      Where are the sunny uplands?

      • graham1946
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:00 pm | Permalink

        52 deals already in the pipeline even before we have left. More to come when we are out of the Eurocracy. You said we wouldn’t get any so don’t come back with your usual ‘Somalia’ or whatever goes on in your head. You always seem to miss the point and pick on some inconsequential remark. Have you any valid arguments?

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

          A big win is to be able to supply our own demand! No deal required for that. Helps the balance of payments, employment, tax receipts, quality of produce, reduces costs and damage caused by long distance transport.
          We will be fine so long as Boris Biden does not cancel Capitalism!

          • bill brown
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:09 pm | Permalink

            Lynn
            you really have no idea

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:57 am | Permalink

            Any proof?
            Any facts ?

        • Andy
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

          I didn’t say we would get any trade deals when we left. I said we would get any trade deals which are better than ones we had as EU members. We haven’t and we won’t.

          How are your lorry parks coming on?

  48. graham1946
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    I doubt Biden will complete one term at his age and mental signs. I think this is a way to get his running mate into power which she would not achieve on her own. Like our Labour Party leader, he may be the acceptable face of the Democrats, but there are some nasties behind ready to pull the strings.

    • Ian Wilson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

      Statistically you are right – I believe 7 out of the last 8 presidents to be elected in a year ending in zero failed to complete their first term, and the eighth (Reagan) was lucky to do so , surviving an assassination attempt.

    • Al
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:58 pm | Permalink

      The rumour I have heard is that the intention is that Biden should step down after two years, to allow Kamala Harris two years and then two complete terms as President. This would depend on the results of the mid-terms and, of-course, the current election.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:14 am | Permalink

      +1

  49. Harkin
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:48 am | Permalink

    On this of all days I don’t think I can add anything- am just watching in awe at all of the lies the spin- did you hear the latest Rudy Giuliani rant? Wow!

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:26 pm | Permalink

      It says something, when TV channels switch away from what Trump is claiming live on air, so as not to insult the intelligence of their viewers.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

        Mainstream media hates the President.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:36 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          you keep repeating yourself , pease can we have some new arguments

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 10:12 am | Permalink

            Hilarious coming from you Bill

  50. a-tracy
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:18 am | Permalink

    I think postal vote fraud occurs prior to counting and receipt – you can’t prove family and friend coercion or third party coercion from an outside influencer. Someone that says they’ll post vote envelopes or help people to fill it in especially in institutional settings. People without the mental capacity to make a free decision who fills in their vote?

    When you’re in a voting booth you’re on your own. It’s every single voter is verified as one vote on their own for one person.

    The envelope votes will stand up in a recount. Any fraud happens before its posted.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

      Many of the fraudulent postal votes for Biden were never in the post.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:39 pm | Permalink

        Lynn Atikinson,

        What is your proof of the statement that they we never in the post?

        • Martin in Cardiff
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

          It damages the reputation and standing of John’s site to publish such self-evidently silly claims.

          • Fred H
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

            we rely on you and the boy wonder to maintain Sir John’s reputation? You jokers never make silly claims, do you?

  51. MWB
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:34 am | Permalink

    Why do the media, especially the BBC, make such a fuss about the USA election, and why do they think that people here are particularly interested ?

    There is plenty of division in the UK, especially in England, with many many groups, all of whom hate each other.

  52. Northern Lass
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:44 am | Permalink

    I absolutely agree with every word of this Sir John.

  53. john biggart
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 12:10 pm | Permalink

    Dear Sir John,
    Excellent post today. In my view, and although I am no fan of Trump, the world would be a safer place with Trump as President of the USA rather than Biden and the people behind him.

    One of the worst aspects of the US election was ‘weaponising’ C19 to instil fear in the American people. Fear being used to control people, ring a bell?

    In the quest for the truth please give some moments to this gentleman, ex-Senior Chief Biomedical Scientist, Public Health UK – well worth a listen…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEFXRnDCYkc

    kind regards,
    john biggart

    • Simeon
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

      Interesting video. All three points made are important. As regards the virus attenuation, what implications would this have for a Covid vaccine? If the virus very rapidly mutates to a less virulent, though more contagious form, does that mean that producing a vaccine can be done much quicker – meaning that such seemingly suspiciously swift progress being made is in fact unsurprising? Or does it mean that producing an effective vaccine is impossible? This question should be academic, because either way, a vaccine is unnecessary, pointless, and a grotesque waste of public money. But if such a ‘vaccine’ is then pushed upon the population, would this not be conclusive evidence of sinister actions? (As if even more evidence were needed…)

    • DaveK
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:47 pm | Permalink

      Is the link real, as I can’t find another reference to this person? Is it a fake to smear Dr Yeadon?

      • Simeon
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:13 am | Permalink

        He now works in real estate in Canada. I couldn’t tell you if his stated relationships with the scientists he mentioned check out, but given the platform he is on is not only sympathetic to Yeadon but has also interviewed him, it seems safe to assume this video is not intended as a smear.

  54. mongoose
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 12:15 pm | Permalink

    The media and the pollsters didn’t make any mistakes, Sir John. They did exactly what they are paid to do. It is still happening now. The BBC openly describes Pre Trumps accusations of electoral fraud “baseless”. How can the BBC possibly know? And what business is it of theirs to have an opinion let alone to express it so prejudicially at such a time?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • Iain Moore
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

      The BBC’s assertiveness here is quite revealing.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

      It is not an opinion it is verifiable fact, as stated in the relevant state’s electoral rules.

      Trump is demanding that they break their own published basis for holding the vote, by not counting absolutely legitimate, genuine votes, made completely according to those rules.

      There is no lack of clarity or room for spin here. It is crystal clear.

      Even a Third World despot would not be so brazen.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:42 pm | Permalink

        Sad
        You turn a blind eye to voting cheating.

        One day it will be your side that gets cheated

        • bill brown
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          More lying this morning, saying that the democrats are stealing the election, even his own party thinks he ging too far but you onviously do not

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:46 pm | Permalink

            Bull – belt up.

        • hefner
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:31 am | Permalink

          Indeed sad, even Trumpian sad: Rather weak comment, typical of someone who has nothing to add.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

            Carry on you two.
            Blind to the emerging proof of dodgy mail in ballots.
            The errors could be for any candidate.
            They need investigating not ignoring.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:45 pm | Permalink

        That is a lie! Trump is demanding and will get each State to abide by its electoral law. The fact you want to soft soap the destruction of democracy speaks volumes. If the majority don’t win at the ballot box, they will win by other means, and that puts minority group in serious danger. Democrats like me want to avoid that at all costs, but you want war.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:05 pm | Permalink

          Lynn Atkinson

          Each state will abide by the rules but Trump will still lose by the populer leagal vote as was forecasted for along time, so stop your comic chareade

  55. formula57
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

    The Tucker Carlson video re-posted on the Guido Fawkes site yesterday is illuminating of your theme, explaining a Trump rally in a small Pennsylvania town that has lost industries and suffered from opioid addiction attracted an impressive crowd as it had been neglected otherwise by the political elites who never give it another thought as they enrich themselves.

    I still think Biden will win, but the closeness of the result will leave America even more scarred than it would have been with a clear endorsement/repudiation. The reckoning Trump has not been able to deliver will be all the more devastating when it comes for being delayed.

  56. Gareth Warren
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

    There always has been voter fraud in the US, at least in recent decades, but it may be a significant factor in such a close election. Here I hope US authorities can investigate and clean this up.

    But we in the UK suffer from voter fraud too, and with increased use of mail in ballots it could become significant. I hope your government is able to fix this, we can secure our money so why not secure our votes?

    Here ballots need to be traceable, at least for mail in, I would also say they could be sent in triplicate to multiple locations making forging even harder.

    • hefner
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:13 pm | Permalink

      Since 2010 onwards, the number of complaints and investigations following UK elections appears on electoralcommission.org.uk

      Using ‘significant’ does not mean anything if you do not quote the actual numbers of investigations related to the total number of voters.
      Farage usually does the same thing (with his usual boneheads lapping up) but the UK numbers since 2010 have always been below 600 for electoral fraud investigations, below 20 for condemnations, which puts the UK among the very top countries for the transparency and honesty of its elections.

      • Gareth Warren
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

        In the US 7 wards in Milwaukee reported more then 100% turnout, the highest was 202%. Its always been corrupt there but ignored since the result was not close. People have traced dead voters and found they voted, you can confirm this with official US government data.

        When a judge in the UK calls practices that go on in the UK like something out of a banana republic we should care and act.

        When 1 vote decide an election how large do you think the fraud should be to be “significant”?

        I’d say 1 is enough.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

          Oh Gareth, it was all fair in Milwaukee – 21 out of 10 voters voted for Uncle Joe, at Halloween 😂😂 these desperate Dems have really done it, the fraud is so obvious that Zimbabwe is threatening sancition because of a lack of ‘free and fair voting’ in the USA!

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

        Hefner when are you moving? I’m looking forward to the wiff of fresh air.

    • Edward2
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:15 am | Permalink

      Another problem with postal votes is the ability of one person, perhaps the head of the household, to coerce others to vote in a particular way.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

        Edward 2

        that is also really far fetched, but that has never stopped you

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

          Bull I bet you fill in all the votes in your household.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:58 pm | Permalink

          You are blind to anything that any others on here present which is different to you.
          It has been widely reported and the subject of court cases.
          Birmingham Peterborough Tower Hamlets etc.
          Why be a denier?

  57. Barbara
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

    I see the furlough scheme is being extended to March 2021. So it’s not just a four-week lockdown, then.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

      No this is life forever. The ‘New’ normal. Once you are vaccinated, you will like it -stepfordwives.

    • Caterpillar
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

      It confirms Mr Sunak’s nature to treat people inequitably e.g. the higher paid furloughed worker (who had more income to prepare) being valued more than the low paid worker (who had less). This is accentuated by Sunak’s approach to people made redundant after the start of Sept 23rd being able to be brought back onto furlough. Different redundant people should be treated differently as decided by Mr Sunak. His inequitable treatment of people is awful (nicest word I could find).

    • Caterpillar
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

      If one goes along with Mr Sunak’s differential valuation of people, then we might wish to value his double act with Hancock of switching off supply and keeping resources immobile so that the economy cannot respond.

      A Fag packet calculation:-
      The cost of their response to Covid is perhaps between £100bn and £500bn (of course long term effects might make this higher), whilst suggested lives saved have estimates from 10k to 200k. This gives the cost of a life between £0.5 million and £50 million. Life years are valued between £20k and £100k (e.g. NICE view a treatment that adds 1 QALY per £20k as cost effective). So this then gives a SAGEesque range that the Hancock-Sunak Covid approach needs to add 5 to 2500 QALYS per life saved. The extreme lowest end of this (200k lives saved, valued at £100k per year with long terms economics costs down at £100bn) might just about justify the policy. Presumably, some where buried Hancock-Sunak have a reverse policy development staring at the £20k per QALY price to justify an intervention and then identified the best return.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:47 pm | Permalink

      They are no kicking the can (unemployment) down the road. It will do them no good.

      At the train station this morning I herd two self employed men discussing furlough scheme and the extra money they will be getting from the government. I do not think these people are a minority, hence the enthusiasm for Lockdown.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

      and what about the numbers of employment types that get nothing?
      Have those groups of workers had any help from destitution and misery?

  58. Everhopeful
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

    I would imagine that one of the main ways in which supporters of Big Government wish to see “wrongs righted” is through generous benefit payments.
    They should remember the sparrows, the closed granaries and the horrendous famine caused by The Great Res…oh sorry …Leap Forward!
    The dying peasants called to their Great Leader to save them.
    I wonder to whom the victims of this second imprisonment will cry?
    Only 28 beating hearts in Westminster!

    • Mark B
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

      History has shown time and time again, governments kill.

    • a-tracy
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

      Stuffing their mouths with money will shut them up for while, as does generous benefits, but when the day of reckoning comes and the bills have to be paid they’ll forget they’ve been munching on the cash and then the blame game begins.

    • Everhopeful
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

      Beg their pardon.
      Above comment suggests 34 MPs with blood in their veins.
      Slightly better then!

  59. Jack Falstaff
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:07 pm | Permalink

    Should be quite a culture shock for Biden and Harris when they take up the reins, as they appear destined to.
    They won’t be able to just stand their looking disgusted and complaining all the time.
    That was the easy bit, and the hard part comes now, since governing and accountability will be on them and no excuses.

    • rose
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:46 pm | Permalink

      No, they will be given the easy ride by the media that Obama and Clinton were (and that Blair and Brown were too.) They already are.

    • Mark B
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:10 am | Permalink

      They will just blame President Trump and the Republicans.

      • hefner
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:28 am | Permalink

        Blaming the predecessors: Would that not be like what the Cons have been doing here in the UK with Labour for more than ten years?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:02 pm | Permalink

          They did leave a mess.
          Like the note left on the Treasury desk.

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:34 pm | Permalink

            This time there is not even a piece of paper to write a note on! 🤦

  60. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

    I wonder what jobs Biden will be offering to the Obamas.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:28 pm | Permalink

      From what positions do you that think any of them should be disqualified, and why?

    • hefner
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

      I don’t think Biden will offer anything to the Obamas. Anyway would that be so much worse that providing a job to his daughter and son-in-law? At least Barack O would have had an eight-year experience in the WH.

  61. Charl
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

    I think the longer the count goes on the more the final result will be broadly in line with the polls

  62. glen cullen
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

    When all is said and done and this covid-19 isn’t no worst than seasonal flu – would this government ever admit it ?

    • Mark B
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:08 am | Permalink

      Glen

      They want to come out of this claiming that THEY won the battle against it and saved us. And what ever is left.

  63. zorro
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

    Indeed, as you know, opinion polls are used by these people to form opinion rather than representing it…. Our Dear Leader’s chief data Guru, Dom Khuo Ming, Master Of All The Intelligences, is much beholden to data polls…. Awful

    zorro

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:06 pm | Permalink

      +1.

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:24 am | Permalink

      Problem is that for a Government with such a Data Genius at hand it is unable to provide a Powerpoint presentation with graphs having axes properly defined and the PM, Ministers or anybody making an address with a remote control to switch from one slide to the other … something that has been current in business meetings since at least the ‘90s.

      But we have to keep the tradition of English incompetence, don’t we.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

        Oh no, that’s the Remainer/Rejoiner way. They have actually confused themselves to the point that Boris no longer knows which way is up.
        The English way is ‘shipshape and Bristol fashion’.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:37 pm | Permalink

          Lynn Atjinson

          more unsubstantiated nonsense

        • hefner
          Posted November 9, 2020 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

          ‘shipshape and Bristol fashion’: how 18-19th c. Are you friend with JR-M, btw?

  64. glen cullen
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:13 pm | Permalink

    I guess that 99% of people know who the President of the USA is, but 99% of people haven’t a clue who the French President is ?

    We know our friends

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

      99% of your associates, perhaps.

    • bill brown
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:37 pm | Permalink

      Glen Cullen

      So you really think that Trump is a freind of the UK?

      Can we have some proof, please?

      • glen cullen
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 10:25 am | Permalink

        The French want to rob our fish the USA don’t

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:33 am | Permalink

          Glen Cullen

          What a rathe sad response to a concrete question

  65. Peter Parsons
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:30 pm | Permalink

    At the time of writing of this article, the outcome of the US Presidential election is still an unknown. The outcome at the time of writing this comment could still be anything from a Trump win through to Biden by over 70 Electoral College vote (and that is before all of the legal schenanigans that seem to be kicking off are resolved).

    It would be better to wait for the final result before attempting an analysis.

    • rose
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:42 pm | Permalink

      And the voting shenanigans? Rules changed at the last minute, massive numbers of late postal votes all said to be for Biden, Republicans being denied access to the count. And all in swing States under Democrat control where Trump was surging in line with the indicator states such as Kentucky which don’t appear to have been interfered with.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:52 am | Permalink

        Each state sets their own rules as to what constitutes a valid postal vote. Some require the vote to have arrived by the day of the election, some require that the postal date stamp is no later than the date of the election, but must arrive within a certain number of days either.

        Then there are votes such as the overseas military votes which also can arrive later depending on the state.

        I listened to one of the electoral commissioners from the Commenwealth of Pennsylvania, a registered Republican, and they are simply following their state law.

        The Republicans attempted to change election law with regards to absentee ballots in Pennsylvania and North Carolina with a case taken to the US Supreme Court before the election. The US Supreme Court threw out the case.

  66. a-tracy
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Don’t you think its a bit suspicious that all the other States have concluded the count but these swing States haven’t?
    I also can’t wait to see the % of mail-in ballots in these swing seats compared to mail-in ballots as a % of the total vote in the other States surely it’s in line and proportionate – it just doesn’t seem right.
    I must say thought that it makes Peterborough look mild.

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:32 pm | Permalink

      Look.

      They’re Americans.

      Each of them wants to be the one on which it all hangs, and the focus of the whole world’s attention.

      So they’re dragging their feet.

      And dealing with Trump’s silly, time-wasting, vexatious legal actions.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

        So now you are revealing your conspiracy theories.
        Interesting.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Actually Andy is only stating facts. Trump seems to think he is loosing, so he is using all the tricks in the portfolio, to question the legitimacy of the electoral vote.
          So, yes he dragging his feet.
          Even you can see that? I assume

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:21 am | Permalink

            It was Martin I was responding to bill.

            The conspiracy theory is Martin’s strange opinion that all, repeat all Americans want to be the focus of the world’s attention.
            A ridiculous idea born out of his hatred of America.
            Even you can see that I presume?

      • Fred H
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

        You’ve got it – they have been studying how the EU go about things.
        We are indebted to you Martin.

    • rose
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:35 pm | Permalink

      It makes Tower Hamlets look small beer.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:56 pm | Permalink

      Not really. Each state has their own election laws, so there are 50 different systems. When you can start counting, when you can’t, what is a valid vote can all differ from state to state. It is not surprising at all.

      • a-tracy
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

        So were all the other States that returned results quickly including all their postal ballots operating differently to these last few delayed result States? Did the other States get the same % of postal voters?

        • hefner
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:48 pm | Permalink

          Colorado, Hawaii, Oregon, Utah and Washington practically have postal ballots and this for years. Among the other states, some allowed the counting to start before 3/11, some did not. Some accepted ballot return up to 6/11 provided the time stamp is before 3/11.

          • hefner
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:49 pm | Permalink

            Sorry, ‘have ONLY postal ballots’

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

            Are they the disputed States?

        • Peter Parsons
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

          Yes, they were.

  67. bill brown
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:20 pm | Permalink

    Sir JR

    What is unacccptable conduct is the continued lying and chaeting from Mr. Trump which also happened when he declared himself a winner in the middle of the vote counting. and this has nothing to do with establishment or the opposite.

    • steve
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

      Lynn

      Obvious – there’s something they don’t want seen.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:08 pm | Permalink

        +1 only the guilty …

    • steve
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

      bill brown

      “What is unacccptable conduct is the continued lying and chaeting from Mr. Trump”

      Why do you think he’s lied and cheated ? Been watching too much BBC ?

    • Edward2
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

      Lying and cheating?
      bill give us some facts.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:32 pm | Permalink

        Edward 2

        See above

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:23 am | Permalink

          That isn’t an example of lying and cheating bill.

          He was asked if he thought he had won and he said yes.

      • hefner
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:22 am | Permalink

        Heard DJT talking about legal vs illegal votes at 12:04 ET on 06/11/2020?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:24 am | Permalink

          Like you President Trump gave an opinion.
          That isn’t lying and cheating.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

            Edward 2

            It was preented as a fact taht he would have won without the so-called illegal votes.
            What more do you need?

          • hefner
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:39 pm | Permalink

            OK, no lying, no cheating, simply an opinion based on no facts whatsoever as pointed out by most US networks and even some Republican Congress people who are now considering on which side their slice of bread has more chance to be buttered.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

            No bill and heffy it was presented as his opinion.

            You can have yours it seems.
            But apparently no one else can have any opinions different to you.

          • hefner
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:28 am | Permalink

            Edward2, how funny that you, of all contributors on this blog, can say such a thing when practically every day you are here to put all of us deviating from the true shining path back into the proper tracks.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 10:10 am | Permalink

            What on earth are you waffling on about Hefner.
            Your hatred of President Trump is making you confuse opinion with lies.
            Wait for evidence to emerge.
            Long way to go yet.
            Keep calm.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:39 am | Permalink

        Erwad 2

        Most US networks shut him off last night during mid-speech , when he said the demmocrats are stealing the electin with no proof. Do you need more proof?

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

          The main networks are anti Trump and always have been.

          • hefner
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

            Oh yes, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, NPR. How didn’t I get it? The only neutral sources of information are BlazeRadio, Breitbart, the various shock jock local radios, OANN, RT, WashingtonExaminer, WashingtonTimes, and some tens of others.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 7:04 am | Permalink

            Fox are Republican friendly but the rest of the TV networks are pro Democrat.
            Surely you already know that.

          • bill brown
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:32 am | Permalink

            Edward 2

            the fact is he has not won, so you asked for a lie from Thrump, and then you will not acknowledge it. All rather sad

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 10:08 am | Permalink

            I’m not sure what your garbled post is trying to say bill.

            President Trump claimed the election was being stolen.
            You say he is lying.
            Well let’s wait a little bit and see what emerges.

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

            Curiouser and curiouser: DJT might have based his Sunday victory claim on a Newt Gingrich’s appearance on Fox News referring to a pollster, the US correspondant of the U.K. Sunday Express, Patrick Basham.

            The effect of globalization or that of a special relationship? Or is it ‘Through the Looking-Glass’?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 9, 2020 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

            What a dull post hef.
            You really are struggling.
            Keep calm.
            Many weeks ahead of us.

    • rose
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:31 pm | Permalink

      Trump-deranged Democrat friend, Lord Darroch also declared Trump the winner, but much earlier. He knows a thing or two about American elections and wouldn’t have done so in ignorance or hope. Antifa thought he was the winner too, when they marched in formation, all dressed in black, towards the White House. Suddenly there wasn’t a policeman in sight and the reporters were terrified. This incident was never mentioned again after the graphs changed. A lot of ordinary people thought Trump had won because they had been told to look out for Kentucky, Ohio, and Florida as indicators of how things would go elsewhere. Interesting that these projected results were held back, so as not to influence late leaners. Florida was delayed by the MSM till midnight their time. This meant it wouldn’t influence late leaners on the West Coast.

      The pollsters aren’t out of touch, Sir John. They know all too well what game they are playing with the electorate. The electorate is getting more clued about them.

  68. Ian
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Our deepest thanks to the 34 MPS, still trying to hang on to a small corner of the only democrats in sin pin that is the so called Establishment Parliament.
    How low these disgraceful bunch have brought nothing to Parliament except there greed and total Treachery, you can not even call it Treachery lite ?
    The thing is they are all above the Law

    • Mark B
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:05 am | Permalink

      Hear hear, Ian. They are the bedrock on which our democracy stands.

  69. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

    Pennsylvania Democrats have appealed ruling allowing Trump campaign to observe ballot counting.
    Why?

    • Heavensent
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:10 pm | Permalink

      No Lynn all thinking decent people know about Trump and his dealings over the past four years how he separates families down at the Mexican border- how he card little for climate control or the UN or NATO- he is nog a decent person and I would not like any ov my children be in a room alone with him.

      Having said that the ballots have to be counted first before an appeal can be put in unless somebody can produce evidence of fraud- but saying that if you have evidence You should report it to the police.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:21 pm | Permalink

        You are the Angel with whom we wrestle. Lucifer!

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:09 am | Permalink

      Not true, Lynn. Both the Democrat and Republican observers are present at the counting. Simply the Democrats have asked the local electoral authorities for the Republican observers not to be allowed to come closer than they to the people counting the ballots because some of the so-called Republican ‘observers’ were started to intimidate the poll-counters.

      • hefner
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:10 am | Permalink

        starting (not started), sorry.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

        Which was denied by them.

        • hefner
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:53 pm | Permalink

          What is not denied as there are pictures is that some of the attendees (at least those waiting outside the building) were armed.
          As you obviously do as a good citizen when going voting, I presume?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Permalink

            You are allowed to carry arms and if have a legal permit then this is allowed in America.
            Did you not know?

          • hefner
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:22 am | Permalink

            I know that, having lived in the USA for two years and lived there through the 1984 electoral campaign (re-election of RonaldReagan). In those days, the ‘woke’ men did not need to carry arms to attend rallyes or the vote counting (or to show how ‘tough’ they were).

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 10:05 am | Permalink

            How do you know they were all Trump supporters?

          • hefner
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

            Do you know anything about the Second Amendment? And the groups concerned about it?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:27 pm | Permalink

            Yes I do hef.
            And the groups concerned.
            Many thanks for asking.

    • Peter Parsons
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 10:53 am | Permalink

      Republicans and Democrats have both been able to observe the counting in places like Philadelphia. Some counts are even being live streamed on the internet for anyone to watch.

      If what is happening is purely down to one party acting fraudulently, perhaps you could offer an explanation as to why the same trends being seen in Pennsylvania are also, at the time of writing this, being seen in Georgia. Georgia, a state with a Republican Governor, a Republican Secretary of State, a Republican-controlled state Senate, and a Republican-controlled state House of Representatives.

      • Peter Parsons
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:20 pm | Permalink

        The Republicans have had 50,000 observers out watching the counting.

        • Lynn Atkinson
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

          The Republican scrutineers were debarred. They had to appeal to the court to allow them access, then the Democrats appealed the Order.
          Why?

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

            They were not. I suggest you read the details of the case.

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 7:07 pm | Permalink

            If you read the details of the case, it was over how close an observer could be. There was no debarring.

        • Edward2
          Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

          In some Democrat run states they were refused the right to closely observe the count it is alleged.

          • hefner
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:08 am | Permalink

            Not true. But if you are so sure, quote your reference(s).

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 10:04 am | Permalink

            There is a video showing Republican reps being refused entry as observers at a count despite a judges order in their hands to be allowed in.
            Let alone being allowed to stand close to observe the count.
            Look it up yourself.

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 5:11 pm | Permalink

            It’s very easy to stage and create a video.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

            Is any evidence ever going to be satisfactory for you Peter.
            Why not go online and search.

          • Peter Parsons
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 9:00 am | Permalink

            Yes. Evidence that will stand up in a court of law.

            Modern technology makes it so easy to create fake videos, pictures etc. that I find it sensible to hold a very healthy scepticism of anything posted on the internet, especially if I have little to no knowledge of who is posting it.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

            Like the video of a man who works for the US post service who alleges he was told to stamp mail in ballots with a different date to make them legal.

  70. No Longer Anonymous
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:33 pm | Permalink

    There have been HUGE discrepancies between the postal votes and the real votes. Biden getting 200k extra votes in no time in Wisconsin and Michegan. Nearly 100% of postal votes to the Democrats.

    Similar happens here with postal votes. They lurch to the Left and the BBC just accepts it with no curiosity.

    And why is the BBC not bothered about allegations that women are sometimes forced to vote the way their fathers and husbands want them to ?

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:36 pm | Permalink

      Suspected crimes and any evidence should be reported to the police, not to the BBC.

      • No Longer Anonymous
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

        Didn’t stop them prying into Trump’s alleged Russian connection whilst ignoring Biden’s Chinese one.

      • rose
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:13 pm | Permalink

        The BBC should not keep saying there is no evidence for something if they refuse to investigate it. Investigative journalism is their favourite thing and they love putting their ideological enemies in the dock.

        A BBC woman on the ground was reported on the BBC World Service as having been shown photographic evidence by local Republicans of electoral fraud . This has been buried, not followed up.

        Interestingly, LBC’s Trump-deranged Mr Marks has now amended the general media assertion that “there is no evidence of fraud” to “there is precious little evidence of fraud.”

        • rose
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:18 pm | Permalink

          And Iain Dale actually asked one of Mrs Harris’s helpers why more people had voted than were on the register. The answer was not given. She just asserted it was false. But it looks to me from the Zimbabwean-sized turnout in some States as if the dead have been voting for Biden en masse, and not very punctually.

          • Original Chris
            Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:54 pm | Permalink

            There are examples of how it has been done, with actual evidence that dead people voted.

            Richard Baris, a very astute pollster, investigated the dead man vote by following a tip off. In his tweet @peoples_pundit he said:
            “Lol! He’s right.
            I used info via Social Security Death Index on “Your Voter Information” on the Michigan SoS website.

            William was born in 1902, died in Detroit at age 82 in 1984.

            He applied for an absentee ballot on 9/11, submitted it on 9/19.

            They’ve been at it for months.”

        • Fred H
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:27 pm | Permalink

          but then he admits there HAS been fraud.

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:09 pm | Permalink

        134 arrested as we speak for election fraud. All Democrats. So that’s what is happening dear.

    • Fred H
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

      postal votes they don’t even get to see.?

  71. a-tracy
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    Why are the Europeans on here trying to link Brexit to America?
    We didn’t need Americas permission to leave?
    We don’t have a trade deal now – so no change there.
    What is this jeering – do they still think they can force through BRINO.
    Two weeks time will be interesting – is this the real reason why we’ve been locked up John, allowed to work but not play and talk together in person?
    Lots of shenanigans.

    • steve
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

      a-tracy

      “Why are the Europeans on here trying to link Brexit to America?”

      Because Biden is threatening to block any trade deal with the US if we don’t agree to a border down the Irish sea and sell out NI.

      What is this jeering – do they still think they can force through BRINO ?

      ……well yes. this is why Boris has been stalling and didn’t keep his promise to walk from negotiations on Oct 15th. He was waiting to see if Trump got re elected. Now it looks as though Biden will get into the white house Boris will grovel to he EU and sell us out. A gutless quisling, as we shall all witness when Biden becomes US president.

      • Keith
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 11:01 pm | Permalink

        Steve..Brexit is about taking back control..nothing to do with America or anywhere else..we voted to have our independence we cannot have it every way

        And looking back as the great actress Garbo was wont to say “I want to be alone” so after a few months she realized that nobody was coming to visit and that is how she eventually finished up all alone. UK politicos are going to make some hard decisions regarding trade and fairly soon..otherwise like Garbo

    • Martin in Cardiff
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:41 pm | Permalink

      After Trump’s preposterous position over Denmark’s declining to sell him Greenland, perhaps some thought that he would take some groundless yet hectoring position with the European Union if it did not give in to Johnson’s silly requests?

      • Edward2
        Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:03 pm | Permalink

        Please rewrite into something we can all understand.

        • Fred H
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:26 pm | Permalink

          best not to even try.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:28 pm | Permalink

          Edward 2

          this is usually what Hefner and I ask you to do, write so we can understand it.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:00 am | Permalink

            On here trolling again bill.
            Sad.

          • Lynn Atkinson
            Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:08 pm | Permalink

            You can’t understand that 1 + 1 = 2

      • Sea_Warrior
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:01 am | Permalink

        Today’s pub-quiz question: which country sold what became the American Virgin Islands?

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:11 pm | Permalink

      +1

    • Charl
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

      Did you not know- Liz Truss has all the deals only she hasn’t told us yet

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

        We don’t need ‘Deals’ to trade.

      • BillM
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:38 pm | Permalink

        How do you know? Are you a whistle-blower from her department?

  72. steve
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 8:16 pm | Permalink

    In my opinion since Mr Biden has shown hostility toward the UK and indeed ‘threatened’ us, someone should have had a word in his ear to point out that; 1) his country has actually never won a foreign conflict in which England was not participating as a US ally, and 2) if we end up allied to the EU because of his Irish republican attitude we won’t be needing F35 and a whole host of other large defence contracts.

    But then I suppose balls is expecting too much of Boris Johnson’s government.

    • Will in Hampshire
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 9:21 pm | Permalink

      I think Steve needs to read some more American history.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:13 pm | Permalink

      Steve, Biden is there to destroy the USA.

    • Charl
      Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:32 pm | Permalink

      Biden is an unusual and honest man- he is an old man so has nothing to prove to anyone and will deal with UK in a fair way so long as UK politicians live up to already signed agreements especially when it comes to Ireland. Ireland will not be a pawn.. and the Irish have the clout..so take care when it comes to EU or America trade stuff

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:01 am | Permalink

      ‘List of wars involving the United States’, wikipedia. Point 1 was wrong in 1775-1783, 1812-1815, 1838 conflicts during which the USA and the UK were on opposite sides. Then there are the multiple 19th c conflicts that the USA were able to deal with without the UK.
      WiH certainly has a point, steve.

  73. Derek Henry
    Posted November 5, 2020 at 10:00 pm | Permalink

    It will be another lost decade John.

    Because fools think you can either cut taxes

    Or

    Increase govt spending

    convinced themselves by believing in debunked economic theory that we can’t do both. Ideological driven madness.

    That’s why everyone is in the mess they are in.

    The U.S. election outcome effectively represents a status quo outcome — regardless of the legal challenges to the Presidential election. The fiscal policy stance will be just loose enough to avoid a collapse scenario, but the threat of austerity to deal with “unsustainable” debt dynamics will always be on the horizon as soon as the economy shows any sign of life. This is a continuation of previous trends. Trends that are idiotic and never work.

    The conventional wisdom is that Biden will eke out a minimal victory in the Electoral College, although court challenges will delay the final result. Meanwhile, it looks like the Republicans can hold their majority in the Senate, and effectively block most actions of the Biden administration. The path of least resistance is to paralyse government, forcing the Democrats to enact policies desired by the Republicans.

    A Trump victory would just continue the current political alignment.

    The economic establishment will continue with exactly the same monetary policy obsessed stance, and accomplish nothing except to prop up the financial system. Everyone in the markets will be accusing them of because of the fiscal deficit/QE mix (“printing money to fund deficits”), while establishment figures will be denouncing it. Neither of which really understand It so that trend will continue.

    Perhaps some external shock could force more radical economic shifts. Given that even the pandemic shock was not enough to generate inflationary pressures, I remain skeptical about the probability of such an outcome.

  74. Sea_Warrior
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:16 am | Permalink

    Interesting that the win by Biden hasn’t been matched by the Democrats in either the Senate or the House.

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:01 am | Permalink

      Interesting and understandable by anybody considering the various areas over which Senators and Representatives are elected: a Senator (2 per State, elected for 9 years, replaced by thirds every 2 years) or a Representative (435 in total, 2-year terms, number in state proportional to population, rebalanced following every 10-year census to maintain the 435 accounting for fluctuating population). PotUS elected by the States’ electoral college of 538 members, with number of members per state proportional to population.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 10:28 pm | Permalink

        That doesn’t make a difference to the current elections.
        You have just cut and pasted a description of how America elects Senators and Representatives

        • hefner
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:06 am | Permalink

          Eh, no. Gotcha. If it was the case, there would not be a big mistake in what I had written above, which unsurprisingly you were not able to detect.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 10:02 am | Permalink

            My point stands.
            Telling us how Senators and Representatives are elected has no real relationship to the US presidential election process.
            PS
            The article you took it from could have had a mistake in it to start with.

          • hefner
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 4:19 pm | Permalink

            No it does not. The exact number of Reps and Dems in the Senate will matter.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:52 pm | Permalink

            Overall, in terms of what a President can accomplish without resorting to executive orders, perhaps.
            But this article and it’s comments is about the USA Presidential election.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:06 pm | Permalink

      Good point!

      • bill brown
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:31 pm | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        It is all about the Senate vote actually

        • Edward2
          Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:35 am | Permalink

          So why are you so concerned about the Presidential election?

          • bill brown
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 7:10 am | Permalink

            Edward 2

            I am not Biden won

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

            You have posted many times in the last days about the Presidential Election.

            Now you suddenly say it is all about the Senate elections.

  75. Caterpillar
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Many of the specific and broader concerns being raised by President Trump seem valid for the future democratic integrity of the USA.

    I am disappointed that the presumed future President Biden has not come out and agreed that Trump has every right to make his legal cases (this is an American way) and that concerns about safe debate, big tech, media, the effect of inaccurate polls, security of vote, hearing the debate until election day, policy etc. are areas that he is also concerned with and that the USA needs to get back to democratic values. I think Mr Biden has stood back too far and not done this.

    When some Democrats supporters are suggesting that the billions spent could be used to pay people to move to swing states or Senate run off states, even if this is tongue in cheek, one can sense how far democracy has fallen in the USA. Some of what Trump is saying is clearly ‘self’, but looking past this there are major real concerns and Mr Biden needs to step up to.get USA democracy back on track.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

      No chance! Relax. Get Biden that’s democracy and capitalism done for. Uncle Joe will see to it.

      • hefner
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 7:57 am | Permalink

        A study by the University of Gothenburg was recently published, with a graph showing the time evolution of political parties over the years with respect to two criteria, illiberalism and populism: the so-called V-Dem project.
        It was reported in the Economist on 31/10/2020 under the title ‘The Republican party has lurched towards populism and illiberalism’.

        A surprise, no, considering that in 2012, Sen.Lindsey Graham (Rep.) was quoted saying ‘We are not generating enough angry white guys to stay in business for the long term’ (Washington Post, 30/08/2012).

        • Edward2
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

          So now you think 70 million Americans are angry white guys.
          Hilarious nonsense.

          • hefner
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 6:53 pm | Permalink

            No, obviously not, but a few hundreds in different parts of the US territory with 2nd Amendment-authorised weapons can contribute to what the Swedish study was unfortunately pointing out, the veering of US democracy towards more illiberalism and populism under PotUS Trump.

            But I know, I have to chill out and relax, but that’s so much fun to (as you say when you do not know what to answer) ‘troll’ you.

          • hefner
            Posted November 9, 2020 at 9:42 am | Permalink

            What is hilarious nonsense is your inability at looking at political developments over any length of time.

            Two examples:
            – the already referenced V-Dem study from the University of Gothenburg
            – and a question for ‘your little grey cells’ (H.Poirot TM): could the UK furlough scheme presently extended to 31 March 2021 possibly be an attempt to hide the immediate impact of Brexit on 01/01/2021?

            Please give me a no-nonsense answer, and not one of your escape artist ones.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 9, 2020 at 7:24 pm | Permalink

            Enjoying yourself hef?
            You are descending to trolling like your mate bill.
            Sad the two of you.
            You love your lefty reports…the University of where…
            Hilarious.

        • hefner
          Posted November 9, 2020 at 11:11 pm | Permalink

          Oh yes, I should have realised: the world exporter does not know where Gothenburg is. Priceless.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 10, 2020 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

            More nonsense masquerading as academia.

          • hefner
            Posted November 11, 2020 at 9:55 pm | Permalink

            Enjoying yourself Ed? Absence of arguments and gratuitous putdown. Difficult to imagine you would go very far in the boardroom with those.

  76. ChrisS
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:25 am | Permalink

    Mirroring the British Labour party, the Democrats are divided amongst themselves with a substantial proportion of their voters supporting Sanders extreme left wing agenda which is quite similar to Corbyn’s, yet Biden is a centrist.

    What is going to happen when Biden proposes a very centrist agenda which he will have to do given the very strong support given to Donald Trump and continuing Republican control of the Senate ?

  77. Iago
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Just seen this:
    “Experts Call For 15 Days Of Counting To Flatten The Curve Of Votes For Trump”

  78. John Partington
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:40 am | Permalink

    The difference between the Republicans and Democrats is similar to Conservative and Labour. You either want freedom to lead your life or you want it to be ruled by the government. That is why right minded people will never vote Labour.

  79. BillM
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 12:36 pm | Permalink

    We should have deep concerns over a Biden victory because both Brussels and China will be celebrating his win. I’m not so sure about North Korea, though, Mr Trump had a good rapport with Chairman Kim – Biden will not be able to follow that amazing precedence. Ditto the ME and Israel.
    Given all of the achievements of Mr Trump and his keeping to the promises made in his speeches of 2016. In particular, to bring back jobs to the USA, it is now difficult to understand the logic of the working folk there, if they have now selected Mr Biden to replace the firm Trump hand that fed them.
    Especially when Mr Biden intends to cut down on all Oil production and stop Fracking. Such moves would destroy 1M jobs in Philadelphia alone and necessitate the USA again relying upon imported energy and at enormous costs to the tax payers. And in American jobs of course.
    Furthermore it seems Mr Biden is intent of boosting the EU at the expense of the UK – the USA’s best ally. What damage that will do to our “Special” arrangement remains to be seen but it certainly declined under the Obama regime. Brits should remember that Mr Trump is on our side – he is half Scottish by birth but his Democrat, socialist opponent favours a closer relationship with the other socialists in Brussels., the very rulers we had voted to leave and go our own way in the world.

  80. RichardM
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 6:08 pm | Permalink

    has there ever been such an ungracious loser as Trump ? he’s an embarrassment to the GOP, America and humanity itself.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:04 pm | Permalink

      If you count the legal ballots, he’s the winner. Why should the winner hand the country over to Sleepy Joe against the wishes of the majority. He has not got the right to do so. As they say, in many places 10 of 9 voters voted for Sleepy Joe.
      I call him Uncle Joe.

      • ChrisS
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 3:24 pm | Permalink

        I would prefer to see a Republican President but it is completely wrong of you to say that Biden would be elected “against the wishes of the majority”.

        In 2016 Donald Trump received 3m, yes, 3,000,000, FEWER votes than Hilary Clinton but won the necessary 370 votes in the electoral college.

        In 2020 the difference could even be greater.

  81. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 7:14 pm | Permalink

    There have been 134 arrests in the USA so far, for election fraud. But the BBC still talks about ‘‘Trumps baseless claims’.
    DEFUND THE BBC.

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

      134 out of 143,588,371 votes at 20:30 BST on 06/11/2020, i.e., 0.0000933%. Some people do not seem to have a sense of ridicule. But this particular trait is shown here day after day after day after …
      I hesitate to laugh at you, this would not be charitable.

      • Edward2
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:05 pm | Permalink

        134 people.
        Nothing to do with total votes.

        You seem an intelligent person, try to keep your mind open and inquisitive.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:29 am | Permalink

          Edward 2

          Coming from you that is quite an insult considering where you are

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 9:59 am | Permalink

            Still trolling I see bill.

        • bill brown
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:29 pm | Permalink

          Edwaard 2

          your arguments are so weak that 4 to 5 million votes difference is so large that no court cases will change enaything live tht fact your candidate lost and your arguments are really poor

          • Edward2
            Posted November 8, 2020 at 12:37 am | Permalink

            The overall numbers of votes isn’t the key factor.
            Search Collegiate Electoral System

      • rose
        Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:03 pm | Permalink

        134 people, not votes.

        • hefner
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 7:45 am | Permalink

          So how many votes?

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

            Irrelevant.
            The post stated 134 people had been arrested in America for voting irregularities.
            It has no correlation to vote numbers.

  82. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 8:51 pm | Permalink

    One Michigan county clerk caught a glitch in tabulation software so they hand counted votes and found the glitch caused 6,000 votes to go to Biden + Democrats that were meant for Trump and Republicans. 47 MI counties used this software. All must check now!
    Does not look like a ‘mistake’ to me, programmed in.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 9:12 pm | Permalink

      Actually it was 6,600 according to the televised announcement. That’s a swing of 13,200 in 1 county. X 42 other counties looks like, Michigan is Trumps.

    • hefner
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 10:30 pm | Permalink

      Given that I guess you are not in Michigan, could you tell us where you got your information from?
      More over there are at 22:00 BT 2,794,893 votes for Biden and 2,646,956 for Trump. To which your undocumented 6,000 votes would give 2,788,893 for B and 2,652,956 for T. Soooooooooooo ….

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:13 am | Permalink

        It is a 13,000 swing in each of 42 counties. Try to follow. They have the proof as it was hand counted, that’s how they know. It’s not contested!
        Electronic counting is very dangerous! A programme with an embedded ‘count every third Labour vote as Tory’ is easy to produce.
        We must stick to our tried and true system and the USA should adopt it!

        • hefner
          Posted November 7, 2020 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

          You still have not provided any ‘proof’ of a 13,000 swing in each of the 42 counties. This has even been rebutted by, of all networks, Fox News: ‘Asked about it, the Fox correspondant stated flatly: ‘That’s not true. It is not true, it’s just not true’.

          So go on … if that amuses you.

          And you might as well start to think about whom within the Reps you are going to support for 2024, the Romney-like, the Cruz-like, the Graham-like, Trump Ivanka or Donald Jr? It might in fact be a more productive exercise in the medium- to long-term than rehashing for the n-th time ‘fake news’ that practically everybody knows to be wrong.

          Today R.Murdoch’s WSJ cover: ‘The President Endgame: Trump has the right to fight in court, but he needs evidence to prove voter fraud’.

          • Edward2
            Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:55 pm | Permalink

            Wait for the Court cases.

    • bill brown
      Posted November 6, 2020 at 10:51 pm | Permalink

      Prove it

  83. Lindsay McDougall
    Posted November 6, 2020 at 11:30 pm | Permalink

    A substantial amount of postal voting tends to favour left-of-centre parties. The essential difference is between the shirking poor, who like being pampered with welfare and easy options, and the working poor, who do not. The shirking poor can’t be bothered to vote in person if it’s raining on polling day and want an easy option. Postal voting gives them one.

    In some US States, regulations were altered to allow postal votes to be counted even if they were received after election day, provided only that the postmark was 3rd November or earlier. When Trump says that such a change should be effected by a change in State Law, not an Executive Order, he might have a point – the Supreme Court will have to judge.

    So let’s have an end to this nonsense that Trump is the devil incarnate just because he contests the concensus.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 7, 2020 at 8:09 am | Permalink

      Just because he upholds the Rule of Law.

  84. hefner
    Posted November 7, 2020 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

    All former PotUSes after leaving the job usually create a Presidential Library and Museum in their hometown, even one-term one, like Gerald Ford in Ann Arbor, MI, Jimmy Carter in Atlanta, GA, George H.W. Bush in College Station, TX.
    I wonder where the Trump’s one will be located, NYC or Mar-a-Lago, FL. Or given that according to some credible sources (e.g., his former National Security Adviser John Bolton) DJT is not a ‘reading guy’ whether there will even be a DJT’s Presidential Library and Museum.
    The suspense will be unbearable.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:26 pm | Permalink

      The Media do not call elections, this election is not decided.
      @EricTrump
      · 6h
      Does anyone believe that Biden, a candidate who had a tough time filing a room, got 8.89 million more votes than Obama 2012? This while @realDonaldTrump set vote records never seen before in the Republican Party (achieved 7.5 million more votes 2016) and is “down”?
      The Democrats who have gone down the road of manipulating an election are in deep. The country will NEVER be united by fraud.

    • Lynn Atkinson
      Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

      Its so comforting that you anti-democratic Pro-EU people celebrate the overturning of a democratic vote by any means. It’s comforting to know we have your measure and always have had. We reject your ways and we want nothing to do with you. We want the English Channel to be impenetrable, because the poverty and war about to engulf your world is nothing to do with us. We have left and God help any politician who tries to thwart us.

      • bill brown
        Posted November 8, 2020 at 7:09 am | Permalink

        Lynn Atkinson

        “because the poverty and war about to engulf your world is nothing to do with us”
        This is the most odd and most pathetic remark about Europe or the world I have read for a very long time

    • Edward2
      Posted November 7, 2020 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

      You hated Reagan and now you hate Trump.
      Respect the choice of the people.
      You are a supporter of democracy surely?

      • Lynn Atkinson
        Posted November 7, 2020 at 9:47 pm | Permalink

        Obviously not! There is no democracy in the EU, not one Parliament.

        It’s hard for us to comprehend, because in our minds and world, democracy and the losers consent is a given, but it’s rare and precious.

        We need to defend our votes, they cannot be sold or given away by the political class.

  85. Lynn Atkinson
    Posted November 7, 2020 at 9:45 pm | Permalink

    7th November 2020

    Statement by President Trump

    ‘We all know why Joe Biden is rushing to falsely pose as the winner, and why his media allies are trying so hard to help him: they don’t want the truth to be exposed. The simple fact is this election is far from over. Joe Biden has not been certified as the winner of any states, let alone any of the highly contested states headed for mandatory recounts, or states where our campaign has valid and legitimate legal challenges that could determine the ultimate victor. In Pennsylvania, for example, our legal observers were not permitted meaningful access to watch the counting process. Legal votes decide who is president, not the news media.

    “Beginning Monday, our campaign will start prosecuting our case in court to ensure election laws are fully upheld and the rightful winner is seated. The American People are entitled to an honest election: that means counting all legal ballots, and not counting any illegal ballots. This is the only way to ensure the public has full confidence in our election. It remains shocking that the Biden campaign refuses to agree with this basic principle and wants ballots counted even if they are fraudulent, manufactured, or cast by ineligible or deceased voters. Only a party engaged in wrongdoing would unlawfully keep observers out of the count room – and then fight in court to block their access.

    So what is Biden hiding? I will not rest until the American People have the honest vote count they deserve and that Democracy demands.”

    End of statement.

    The statement was issued while Trump was golfing at his club in Virginia.

    Oh wow – he’s cool. I believe he has won and when all the legal ballots have been counted, by hand if necessary because the need to be validated.

    Those responsible for election fraud, i.e trying to defraud the VOTERS of their country, need to suffer serious consequences.

    • bill brown
      Posted November 8, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

      Lynn Atkinson

      I would read what Sir JR has written and follow his advise, you seem to becoming increasingly desperate with your views and writing.

  86. bill brown
    Posted November 8, 2020 at 9:51 am | Permalink

    Lynn Atkinson

    I would read what Sir JR has written and follow his advise, you seem to becoming increasingly desperate with your views and writing.

  • About John Redwood


    John Redwood won a free place at Kent College, Canterbury, and graduated from Magdalen College Oxford. He is a Distinguished fellow of All Souls, Oxford. A businessman by background, he has set up an investment management business, was both executive and non executive chairman of a quoted industrial PLC, and chaired a manufacturing company with factories in Birmingham, Chicago, India and China. He is the MP for Wokingham, first elected in 1987.

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