The European Movement still will not accept the result of a big democratic vote. They have sent me and doubtless many others a glossy brochure designed to show what they see as the bad news of Brexit. They urge us “to build back our ties with the rest of Europe”, code no doubt for trying to rejoin. Had remain won I suspect they would have used such a win to justify every federal scheme and every further removal of power from the UK which the EU has in mind.
So what are their latest quibbles? Gone are the absurdly wrong forecasts of a house price collapse, a jobs collapse, a GDP collapse as the UK looks forward to its best year of growth for a long time now at last it is out. Instead of a jobs collapse the UK discovers it is short of people for all the jobs that are being created. They still want us to try to re enter the Erasmus scheme instead of backing the new UK scheme which will help many more UK students. They bemoan a loss of certain EU monies, when the UK has promised to spend more than we were getting under EU rules. They are worried about rights of refugees and of EU citizens settled here, yet this has all been taken care of.They are right to highlight problems with fishing and Northern Ireland, but these of course stem from having an Agreement with the EU instead of running our own affairs. They should blame their EU for those troubles.
When people ask me what have been the wins so far, I say the biggest win is the right of our country to decide for itself what to raise in tax, what to spend, what to pass into law, who to negotiate Treaties with and how to contribute to the great causes of prosperity and democracy worldwide. It is true that many of these freedoms have not yet been used. Much opportunity lies ahead, as a Brexit public seeks to educate an anti Brexit establishment into the joys and advantages of making our own decisions and making government accountable directly to us through elections in a way Commissioners never were. There are so many areas where we can do better now we are free to do it our way,which I have often set out here.
We have already seen the big advantage of attracting our own vaccine solutions and production capabilities, drawing on the excellence of UK science. We will create Free Trade Agreements with Australia, New Zealand and the TPP as well as keeping all the FTAs we and the EU held jointly. We have detached ourselves from the pressures to join the Euro or to send ever bigger transfer payments to relatively rich countries on the continent.
June 24, 2021
It is not just the the EU that will not accept the decision made on Brexit.
It is the people in government and the civil service who still struggle with the fact they are in a position to make their own decisions but for forty years they had a prop to fall back on and someone or something else to blame when things went wrong. The hard fought freedom also bought accountability and that does not sit comfortably on their shoulders. We still are in the scenario of plenty of double speak but very little or no action in the critical areas so important to the population.
June 24, 2021
This is just absolute twaddle.
Virtually everyone accepts that Leave won the referendum and that the UK has left the European Union.
People like me just think that it’s reprehensible rubbish.
The few who don’t seem to be those on the far right, including some commenters here, who apparently have fevered, conspiracy theory based imaginings.
June 24, 2021
-1
June 24, 2021
No, Martin, they didn’t. The Remain Parliaments of 2016 – 2019 did their level best to prevent the UK from leaving the EU by colluding with the enemy, hamstringing the government, going behind the backs of the electorate, giving away our negotiation cards, demanding a “second” referendum, accepting BINO, etc. Whilst a few Remain extremists have accepted they were wrong to do this, most of the loud noise Remains haven’t.
June 24, 2021
Martin, of course it’s twaddle, but you have to accept it. If Leavers didn’t spend all their time blaming everyone else for why Brexit is such a disaster, they’d have to admit Brexit was a disastrous idea in the first place. They can’t do that, the shame would be too great.
June 24, 2021
GF, do not be so pessimistic: not everything is bad, we might expect some possibly very good cultural pieces in a few years extolling the unrecognised beauties of another British failure, you know a bit like Lord Tennysonās āThe Charge of the Light Brigadeā, or Chris Nolanās āDunkirkā. I wonder whether DC, TM and ABdPJ will be associated to the future masterpiece.
June 24, 2021
The question I want answered is what is the next move by the hard Brexiteers, in obtaining its Holy Grail of a “no-deal” (WTO rules) Brexit? You won’t have noticed that Steve Baker MP has joined the UKās principal climate science denial group the Global Warming Policy Foundation (GWPF).
The GWPF founded by Nigel Lawson was the birthplace of the “leave” campaign. It has now become the hub for pro hard Brexit groups such as Leave Means Leave; Economists for Free Trade and Centre for Brexit Policy and various current derivatives of such. Their mission; to blow the Withdrawal Agreement out of the water, particularly the bit in the Irish Sea. The GWPF; naturally, pays homage to Thatcher’s Centre for Policy Studies.
Downing Street is running a left wing economic policy while running a right wing cultural policy. Something has got to give soon. Will the hard Brexiteers oust Boris and turn the UK into a Belarus? Will Steve Baker become the UK’s first President? Stay tuned for the next exciting episode!
June 24, 2021
Here we see the next move by hard remainers
acorn has invented term “hard leavers” for those who just want the result of the referendum to actually occur.
Come on Jerry do have a contrary post.
June 24, 2021
Perhaps you should see a doctor, Martin. You are clearly unwell.
June 24, 2021
MiC
You appear not to know what you are talking about. The far right are more aligned with the far right in Germany and France than with any political party here. They don’t discriminate against their own whether it’s in the EU or elsewhere.
Or perhaps you wrongly assume everyone who does not vote as you think they should must therefore be a far right thug.
In any case I don’t know why you moan, after all you’ve got your man in No 10 so chill out Martin, YOUR Boris is going to give you what you want. Though I should warn you he’s capable of pushing Putin a step too far with his foolish eagerness to do the EU’s biding.
June 25, 2021
Iām not on the far right, the right, the near right or, indeed, anywhere to the right of centre. I am left of centre, vote Green and voted to leave the EU because I value democracy. Even the half-arsed version of it we have here.
June 24, 2021
far, I say the biggest win is the right of our country to decide for itself what to raise in tax, what to spend, what to pass into law. Both houses of parliament, the BBC, Channel 4 and the civil service are still stuffed with appalling & deluded remoaners.
āthe biggest win is the right of our country to decide for itself what to raise in tax, what to spend, what to pass into law..ā indeed alas the current UK government as decided to increase taxes hugely, piss endless money down the drain, pass even more damaging red tape, push the insane net zero insanity and damage the economy (and peopleās health) with the continued (net damaging) lockdown. But we might get a sensible UK government one day I suppose. But no sign of one as yet.
June 24, 2021
Indeed, Lifelogic, instead of grasping independence with both hands we seem to be copying the EU by default. In every single policy area, except vaccine development and rollout, Boris Johnson either mimics the EU (centralised cash printing and splurging), or allows EU control (over Northern Ireland, and our fish). The UK establishment has yet to implement Leave as offered – complete independence from the corrupt EU empire.
June 24, 2021
Indeed but we have corruption and very many vested interest here too (MP and Lords have to declare them but this often does little stop them). What other explanation is there for HS2, the excessive CV testing, the let’s scare people to death with Ā£billions of CV advert propaganda. Plus we have the appallingly misguided, vastly expensive and totally pointless net zero lunacy? With “solutions” to CO2 that do not even reduce CO2!
June 24, 2021
If any UK decides on what happens in the UK then start hiding under your beds or emigrate if you can if you can find a sane country that will accept you.
June 24, 2021
Indeed. Both houses of parliament, the BBC, Channel 4 and the civil service are still stuffed with appalling & deluded remoaners. Also mainly with deluded climate alarmists, lockdown loons and tax borrow and waste enthusiasts.
June 24, 2021
Since the working population as a whole voted Remain, it is hardly surprising, that among people in all walks of life, the gainfully employed will often not share your vehemently hostile attitude towards our twenty-seven nearest neighbours who happen to be about the most peaceable, enlightened, and civilised on this planet.
What do you propose?
Something akin to Stalin’s or Erdogan’s purges?
June 24, 2021
Well, Martin, you certainly wanted to purge our democratic vote to Leave. And you cheered on Andy, and other Remains, who gloated that Leave voters were dying off, told us we were mad thick racists, and threatened us with prison. All for wanting independence from your corrupt undemocratic EU empire.
June 24, 2021
Indeed Nick.
Polls show no overall change in voting intentions since 2016.
More than 40 years as a member of the EU yet some people want a decision made after less than one year out of the EU
June 25, 2021
NickC
the is no EU empire
June 24, 2021
Where is your proof for the assertion that “the working population as a whole voted Remain”?
June 24, 2021
MiC
“Since the working population as a whole voted Remain ”
So, immigration and the consequent jobs and housing issues are not working class concerns ?
I think you should be prepared to present facts before diciding to come out with such twaddle.
June 24, 2021
what a load of twaddle.
June 24, 2021
@Lifelogic,
How deluded / dysfunctional are people in this country and The West in general?In theory, Brexit makes most sense (easily) , and I support it now Brexit won, but we still don’t have a real Brexit leader or a real detailed plan or exciting vision what Brexit entails. Uniting the country must be part of that but I see the country more disunited than ever. And out great country is seriously dysfunctional at so many levels socially/ culturally and so on – like the rest of The West which I see largely in decline as it turns its back on the best of our Greco-Roman heritage, turns its back on its Judaeo-Christian values and on the thinking and philosophy of great Conservatives such as Edmund Burke.
June 24, 2021
Ed. There is no real detailed plan. There is no plan at all. Brexit was just a shout of rage. Everything promised – frictionless trade with the EU but no need to follow its rules – was totally unrealistic. Look around you – no plan, only new barriers to trade, lost jobs and isolationism. Brexit is a wicked waste of our nationās potential
June 25, 2021
@Derby Trev
Your comment takes me back to the classroom when a certain teacher used to shout āBalderdash!ā when someone spoke rubbish.
June 24, 2021
+1
June 24, 2021
Unfortunately the “level playing field” will give government and civil service the excuse they need. We need to extract ourselves from the Withdrawal agreement and fly properly solo.
June 24, 2021
People in government and civil service have been asked to implement a fantasy – the Brexit promised by Vote Leave in 2016, with freedom from EU rules but frictionless access to EU markets, could never exist and will never exist. Don’t blame the people asked to produce a unicorn and a fairy story, blame the Brexiters who promised you a unicorn and a fairy story. And ask them when they are going to accept responsibility for the damage they have done to our sadly diminished country
June 24, 2021
Garland, Independence from the EU empire is no fantasy, as the other 165 countries in the world continue to demonstrate.
June 24, 2021
The main problem is that Brexitists will not accept the result of Brexit.
We all knew Brexit would mean fewer rights, masses of pointless bureaucracy, an Irish Sea border and a poorer country.
Yet everytime one of the inevitable consequences of your vote become clear you all moan and blame everybody else.
June 24, 2021
The Right often say that homeowners should be able to kill anyone who has broken into their property and who seeks to rob them or to commit other crimes.
All of the European Union, it’s fine cities, its spectacular scenery, and everything else, were once MINE.
Leave have robbed me of all that – it’s worth rather more than a laptop and a few power tools too, in fact it’s beyond measure.
How do they expect me to feel about them?
June 24, 2021
You weren’t ‘robbed’. You took part in a vote and agreed to abide by the result when you did it.
Those cities are still there for you to see and and visit and they were never ‘yours’.
The biggest hurdle to getting to those cities is masks and quarantine and the much diminished transport industry. Masks. Nothing to be afraid of, eh ?
June 24, 2021
No, Martin, European cities and scenery actually weren’t YOURS. You didn’t own them, and you had no property rights to them. At all. In fact you have re-gained the right (democratically in cooperation with the rest of the UK electorate) to decide who can come into OUR home, the UK.
June 24, 2021
And poor old hard done by you is stuck in miserable old Wales. You could have gone to your Shangri La, but like most you moan because you either didn’t have the courage or the conviction and stayed where you are, just like Andy even though he has property there. By the way, you can still visit if you want to. I doubt you will.
June 24, 2021
Well go there then emigrate then it can all be yours again.
June 24, 2021
I have exciting news for you and Andy. You share the 2021 Whingers Award.
I lied about exciting.
June 25, 2021
MiC
“All of the European Union, itās fine cities, its spectacular scenery, and everything else, were once MINE. ”
And who exactly do you think you are ?
I think you should emigrate there, lay claim to ownership of those things you mention and see what the locals have to say about it.
June 24, 2021
Andy (and others) “The main problem is that Brexitists will not accept the result of Brexit.”
Unfortunately for the country the Brexit supporters did not get the Brexit they wanted because the remainers (the PM, a majority in Parliament, the Civil Service, the Judiciary etc.) did not accept the democratic decision and did all they could to overturn the result/put us in a poor negotiating position which included an act of Parliament to prevent out leaving without a deal (viz on WTO terms) whilst openly encouraging the EU to be as hard and difficult as possible in the withdrawal negotiations.
June 24, 2021
+1
June 24, 2021
You voted to leave and you left.
If your Brexit was a success you wouldnāt have to blame everybody else for it.
June 24, 2021
No matter how many times you repeat it Andy. No, we haven’t left. There are still too many strings attached.
June 25, 2021
Andy
Just for you and so you know that we have your childish little remainers tactic sussed –
We voted to leave, your lot sabotaged it and crank on incessantly that what you wrecked is what we voted for.
There, I could’nt make it any clearer. Now please stop wasting yours and everyone’s time with your twaddle.
I think you would spend your time better enhancing yours and your family’s life with some hard graft, and concern yourself more with what might happen should there be a reckoning in this country because of the brexit you wrecked and the millions of people you’ve angered. (No, we are not going away and we’re extremely pissed with people like you)
June 24, 2021
+1
June 24, 2021
Andy: Brexit won. This is England not some bannana Republic or Communist regime where you over-ride the democratic result. Plus there are perfectly good practical and ethical reasons for being a sovereign nation which you refuse to entertain.
June 24, 2021
We have always been a sovereign nation. A fact you refuse to entertain.
If we were not sovereign while we were in the EU, then nor were any of the other EU members.
If you genuinely want to argue that France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland and Austria and all the other EU countries are not sovereign then youāre just daft.
June 24, 2021
@Andy,
‘We have always been a sovereign nation. A fact you refuse to entertain’ – Actually I DO entertain this: I voted Remain!
Ideologically, I’m a Brexiter, but practically, I didn’t think we we were ready to leave. But that doesn’t matter any more, Brexit won.
‘If you genuinely want to argue that France and Germany and Italy and Spain and Poland and Austria and all the other EU countries are not sovereign then youāre just daft.’ – It’s not as black-and-white as you make out. Yes, essentially they are sovereign, I agree, of course. But they have also lost – relatively-speaking – a lot of sovereignty. For what purpose exactly?
June 25, 2021
Andy
“If we were not sovereign while we were in the EU, then nor were any of the other EU members. ”
Indeed so……ask Greece, Hungary and Poland about the EU’s respect for their sovereignty.
June 24, 2021
The UK was always a sovereign nation whilst a member of the European Union.
The fact that it has been able to leave by the mere sending of a letter proves this beyond all argument.
June 24, 2021
Were we MiC?
How come the supremacy of law was set by EU courts?
June 25, 2021
The UK’s international trading under WTO would also be subject to the supremacy of its dispute resolutions tribunal. That’s how agreements work.
Where is your point?
June 25, 2021
The point is the WTO is not the same as the EU
Come on MiC even you must realise the difference
June 24, 2021
Andy, We were offered the option of Leaving the EU completely (or Remain). Only. For good or ill, 52% of those who were bothered, voted to Leave as offered. We haven’t left yet, we’ve got BINO where the EU controls Northern Ireland and our fish. Remaining EU control is rubbish, isn’t it?
June 25, 2021
The post-exit arrangements with the European Union have NOT been the subject of ANY referendum.
That is what Labour wanted and YOUR side stopped it.
June 25, 2021
That will be decided by further general elections MiC
Currently the Conservatives are way ahead of the Labour Party
And have been in over 100 polls since the last election.
Oh dear.
June 24, 2021
Andy
“The main problem is that Brexitists will not accept the result of Brexit.”
Ironically that is indeed true.
But then why should we…we were conned with BRINO. We’re still waiting for brexit.
June 24, 2021
Agree totally. The phrase ant Brexit establishment sums it up and that includes the higher echelons of government so we are being given BS not actions.
June 24, 2021
+1
I can’t help but wonder whether many of the government’s current failings are down to certain figures colluding with the EU in trying to hollow us out from within and make an example of us on the world stage.
June 24, 2021
The brexiteers operating system:
See metric.
Good Metric?
Attribute it to brexit.
Bad Metric?
Attribute it to the EU or, in your case, some shadowy conspiracy of remainers.
Repeat.
Absolutely, pathetic, SecretPeople. You voted for:
– Lack of free movement
– Destruction of fishing
– Destruction of farming
– a 30% loss of value of the pound (THIS IS WHAT HAS KEPT NOMINAL HOUSE PRICES AFLOAT!)
– Much more paperwork
– The return of violence to and ultimately loss of northern ireland
– The likelihood of the loss of scotland
– an overall fall in GDP and economic prospects
– comically inconsequential “free trade agreements” with countries on the other side of the globe
– destruction of british manufacturing and retail via the promise of freeports
and every economist worth his salt so far being SPOT ON about the deleterious overall effect to the british economy.
but, you know, fewer funny speaking furreners.
you won. get over it. own it.
June 24, 2021
Absolutely pathetic, Pat. We voted for:
ā Independence from the EU.
What we got is BINO:
– EU control of Northern Ireland
– EU control of UK fishing
– EU ongoing threats
– EU trade hostility to the UK compared with other third countries
All of which Remain policies you wanted (and more!). It’s rubbish isn’t it? Own it.
June 24, 2021
+1 and thanks for providing facts
June 24, 2021
NIck C
look at the figures and facts and respond to them and not your emotionla fake news please
June 24, 2021
Still waiting for us to leave. liblabcon still wont get my vote.
June 25, 2021
You will never be content because you are addicted to grievance, it seems to me.
June 24, 2021
Not forgetting my roses have not done well this year. Brexit has a lot to answer for
June 24, 2021
You clearly have no idea what I voted for.
June 25, 2021
And nor did you when it comes to it, did you?
June 26, 2021
Of course I did, I’d been working for it for years.
June 24, 2021
Pat
What you describe is not because of brexit, it’s because of Theresa May and Boris Johnson.
June 26, 2021
Absolutely.
June 24, 2021
Spot on Turbo. You only have to think back to how many in government tried to prevent us leaving. How MIC can’t see that is beyond me.
June 24, 2021
Good morning.
The EU Referendum, which has now past its 5th anniversary, is still very much a work in progress. We have given away, and continue to do so, many of the initial advantages and have been burdened with many disadvantages. We still cannot deal with environmental issues that would see us treat silt as silt and not some biological contaminant. We have a government more into Woke, Green issues and grandstanding than looking at the fundamental reasons why we chose to LEAVE the EU. It was, to put it simply – “Take back control.” But we haven’t, have we !
I’d give this government 4 out of 10 for what it has done so far.
June 24, 2021
It wouldnāt be a work in progress if we kept to the rules and law of āarticle 50ā and left without any deal after the 2 year negotiation point and continued to trade via WTOā¦..youāre either in the club or out of the club ā weāre an associate member (that wasnāt on the referendum)
June 24, 2021
+1
June 24, 2021
Glen
“weāre an associate member (that wasnāt on the referendum) ”
Yes, that’s what May & Johnson stitched us up with. Otherwise known as BRINO.
June 24, 2021
We have taken back some control for Great Britain but as far as Northern Ireland is concerned Boris Johnson has betrayed the people there, especially but not only the unionists, because he has actually handed the EU new controls which it did not have when we were in the EU.
A letter I sent to our local newspaper has been printed under this question as the heading:
“What went through the mind of Boris Johnson?”
I am genuinely puzzled how he could have thought that it was worth ceding joint sovereignty over part of our country to get a “Canada-style” trade deal with the EU worth maybe 1% of GDP.
November 26 2017:
https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/11/26/the-irish-border-with-northern-ireland/#comment-903362
“I wondered whether such a deal would even be worth the bother of the negotiations, or it would be better to say āNo thanks, weāll just stick with WTO trading terms for the moment, instead letās get on and discuss the practicalities of continuing and facilitating our trade for a smooth transitionā.
September 21 2018:
https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/09/21/the-eu-is-more-preoccupied-with-migration-than-with-brexit/#comment-962171
“A deal like CETA, with the UK playing the part of Canada, would:
a) Do nothing to solve the fabricated problem of the Irish land border;
b) Be only marginally better for the UK than falling back on WTO terms;
c) Put the UK in the weak position of a supplicant during the negotiation.
http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/09/07/where-is-the-uks-tariff-schedule-for-march-30-2019/#comment-959636
āā¦ I find that Canada exports about 3% of its GDP to the EU, while the UK exports about 12% of its GDP to the EU; therefore on a simple pro rata basis if CETA boosts Canadaās exports to the EU by the equivalent of 0.18% to 0.36 % of its GDP, as the EU Commission projects, then for the UK the same kind of special trade deal with the EU might be worth 0.7% to 1.4% of UK GDP.ā
It has to be borne in mind that the long term trend growth rate of the UK economy is close to 2.5% a year, so even that upper limit of a 1.4% gain from a special trade deal would be equivalent to natural growth over less than seven months.”
June 24, 2021
So, instead of grandstanding, “mark b”, tell us what “take back control ” actually means. No handwaving. No generalities. Tell us SPECIFICALLY what you have in mind. Go on, you won – own it. And watch your other leave bretheren ignore you or back away from you as they don’t share anything remotely close to your neo-luddite version of “taking back control” and as remainers duly point out that everything – EVERYTHING – that is on your environmental wish list could have been done by the UK parliament within the EU.
you won. get over it. this is the brexit YOU voted for.
June 24, 2021
Actually, I blame Remainers at all levels of government (including at least one PM) and those external campaigns that did their level best to hamper our exit and to reverse Brexit.
We haven’t actually left in any meaningful way and we’re stuck in the cat flap, so to speak.
We had far more freedoms just before this pandemic than we do now and I know it’s mainly Remainers here who support the continuation of restrictions and face masks.
I’m quite struck by this. Says a lot.
June 24, 2021
Don’t forget Sir Oliver Robbins KCMG CB, I’ve said his name once and just about got away with it- but don’t, whatever you do, say his name 3 times
June 25, 2021
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the challenge issued in the post to which you purport to reply.
June 24, 2021
Pat, Every one of the policies where the EU remains in control (Northern Ireland, Fish, etc) is what you Remains wanted. I will own independence when we get it. I’m certainly not owning EU control over us. Why should I? If the remaining EU control was actually better your point might have some rationality (but you’d still be wrong, because independence matters). But far from being better, it’s rubbish. As even Andy can see.
June 24, 2021
NIckC
your answers are so emotional and lack facts and figures, we are just not able to take you seriously anymore, it si all fake news.
June 24, 2021
Well then, respond with your own facts and figures bill.
Then everyone could take you seriously too.
June 24, 2021
See above.
June 24, 2021
Pat
In a word – INDEPENDENCE.
That state that we were at BEFORE we joined the then EEC. A nation that made decisions based on its own national interest and not one having to negotiate with 27 others. A rule maker and not a rule taker.
The very fact that you do not know these things is of concern and, may I suggest, the reason why Remainers such as yourself lost – You had, and still do not have, anything positive to say about EU membership.
As for this BREXIT it is not the one I and 15.9 million others voted for. It is Soft-Remain created by Remainer MP’s and Civil Serpents. So I suggest you direct your ire at them and their attempts to thwart a democratic vote.
June 24, 2021
Pat, It’s far too early to see the benefits of Brexit as we still have a Parliament, Civil Service and Educational Establishment corrupted by the EU.
Going forward we will have the ability to be able to influence our laws and policies (trade, fiscal, taxation, energy, environmental, foreign, military, immigration etc.) through retaining the right to elect and remove those who make these decisions.
Remaining in the EU, where decisions are made by those we did not elect and cannot remove and hence cannot influence, is truly a journey into the unknown.
With regard to the environment I am hoping that our country will come to its senses and not vote for parties who want to destroy our economy and democracy by unilaterally attempting to implement technologically impossible green energy goals except through harsh rationing.
June 24, 2021
@Mark,
Even if we were fully sovereign, we are still not in control in the sense there is serious dysfuncionality in our great country like in the West in general, the demise of the family, people depending on state instead of themselves and family, rich not paying taxes where money in country where money is earned, a decline in real sense of patriotism (flag-waving on proms night is mere sentimentality unless people are doing more to be patriotic in background), women turning into men and men into women, huge decline in marriage and procreation, and so on. Sovereignty is important but to focus on that and ignore everything else is worrying.
June 24, 2021
I agree. There is something very rotten at the heart of Albion.
June 24, 2021
Your right, democracy is important. Perhaps we may see her again. Sovereingty has not yet been restored by those in power to do so. They simply are elected dictators, not bound by manifesto pledges or promises made.
So 2/10.
1) for Boris surviving and not resigning immediately and 1) for getting out of the way of the vaccine team & pushing remainer obstruction out of the way.
June 24, 2021
4 out of 10! I think you’re being generous.
June 24, 2021
;o)
June 24, 2021
I’d give the electorate 4 out of 10 for choice of government.
June 24, 2021
Dave
It was what was on offer. People were told things and chose to believe them.
June 24, 2021
The contempt they express is for democracy and the voter rather than for Brexit per se. Brexit is merely the cover they use to conceal the authoritarianism.
The Grayling’s of the world consider themselves far beyond the average. A political solution to national considerations is always sought if it prevents having to go cap in hand to the voter. Without the political threat Farage posed to the Tory party for example Cameron would never have offered a referendum on the UK’s membership of the EU
Democracy and our right to vote is despised by many of our so called Metropolitan ‘intelligentsia’
These pathetic creatures will never concede, will never tire in their quest and will continue in whatever way they can to thwart efforts to retake powers back from the EU
This PM doesn’t help matters. The NIP is nothing less than act of betrayal of the UK.
Reply Mr Cameron gave into Conservative MPs pushing for a referendum when we were close to 50% of the party
June 24, 2021
Yes, because you were afraid of losing your seats, thanks to populists splitting the right wing vote.
June 24, 2021
…and the comtempt continues by rewarding political remainers – George Osborne has been appointed chairman of the British Museum today
June 24, 2021
reply to reply…Come on Sir John, do you deny the feeling was that Cameron would lose the GE. His only hope was to ‘sell’ the need for softer membership on the very unpopular EU tyrants. They stupidly missed the chance to keep UK tied in. Forget the polls at present I assure you all the Tory voters I know will not vote with your party again. Unless you manage to reverse lots and lots of damaging policy from the possibly unhinged PM, your Party will be toast.
reply I was at the meetings with DC. We did not mention UKIP as all of us thought the same that they would not win a single seat in the GE.We collected around half the party on the merits of the case to have a referendum which was a popular offer.
June 24, 2021
What has UKIP got to do with it? The disaffection with DC was wider than Farage/UKIP. Alternative voting combined with withdrawal of previous Tory voters suggested you would lose. Getting some ‘understanding and a fairer deal’ was what would have shifted the outcome back. As it happened the Ref saved your bacon, and 5 years later this blog demonstrates the close margin that resulted and the losers continue to be a pain. Worse still, the winners only got BRINO anyway. Result? rejection at the next GE.
June 25, 2021
Reply to reply.
Yes they did not win many seats, but they got 4 million votes !
June 24, 2021
“The European Movement still will not accept the result of a big democratic vote”
Good for them, it is their democratic right to campaign for what they believe in, just as it was for Thatcher’s Tory party in the late 1970s, just as it was for the Tories and UKIP in the 2000s, when they put forward an alternate vision for Britain.
“Had remain won I suspect they would have used such a win to justify every federal scheme and every further removal of power from the UK which the EU has in mind. “
As would have been their right, just as it was for the (then) pro EEC group of Tory MPs in the 1980s, not one Pleb’ was explicitly asked if they backed the Single European Act for example.
“Instead of a jobs collapse the UK discovers it is short of people for all the jobs that are being created.”
What jobs are those? Most of the talk in the media and elsewhere seems to be about EXISTING jobs that are not being filled, such as in agriculture, or haulage – where I disagree with the anti Brexiteers is why we are short of such workers.
Sorry but at times, some Brexiteers come over as poor winners (or perhaps that should have been wingers…), one has to ask why, are their own lies catching up with them perhaps?
June 24, 2021
@ jerry – Although the refusal by many to accept the defeat of the Confederate States in the U.S. Civil War (“the recent war”) and the consequent determination to carry-on as best they were able in nearly all of the years since has contributed so much to the contemporary cultural and social problems we see manifest themselves in all sorts of troubling unpleasantness in the U.S.A.. Let us avoid similar here please. Remoaners of course commit the additional sin of aiding a hostile power, moreover one that is not universally liked in its member states.
June 25, 2021
@formula57; Your comment says more about some Brexiteers than it does those who want(ed) the UK to remain in the EU, given some Brexiteers unwillingness to accept the question was ‘settled’ back in 1975 – the aims as set out by the Treaty of Rome have not changed after all…
Those who believe in the EU, those who believe in a Confederate US, have every right to hold such views, to put their case, any issues are to do with how they put their views and push their case – just as with Brexiteers between June 1975 & 2016.
It’s called living in a democracy, you might wish to look up the meaning one day, no it does not mean Do as I say, not as I did…
Reply I and many like me accepted the 1975 verdict and tried to make the Common Marker you all voted for work. After Maastricht it could no longer be represented as a COmmon market but a proto economic monetary and political union which voters had never agreed to
June 24, 2021
What lies are those Jerry?
Please explain.
June 24, 2021
“Retaining frictionless trade” “Retaining the UK’s place in the single market” “We can end freedom of movement, control our borders, trade as we do now and have no changes with regards to Ireland’
Will those do as a start?
June 24, 2021
Peter P, Who said those, what dates, and where can they be corroborated? You see, we don’t trust Remains. With good reason. We know Remains twist words and take quotes out of context. For example Dan Hannan is frequently quoted by Remains as saying that the UK would remain in the EU’s single market. He said no such thing, of course, as the context of the his whole interview shows. We could have frictionless trade but the EU won’t allow it. We can have our own trade policy (as Leave advocated) without affecting the century old border between the UK and Eire.
June 25, 2021
Peter
You have listed a remainers propaganda list of phrases.
EG
What does frictionless trade mean?
Which nations enjoy that ?
June 25, 2021
Peter 2
I actually did if you had read further down the blog with facts and figures
June 25, 2021
Not vert impressed by your later post bill
see below
June 24, 2021
When I was young, I used to get picked to play football regularly because of my sprinting speed and my ability to cross the ball. Although I voted to restore democracy, those attributes had nothing to do with it, so I fail to see the point of your argument.
June 24, 2021
There is no excuse for anyone to be unemployed in the UK and no reason to be on a phoney degree course.
June 24, 2021
Millions of young probably are wasting time and money on phoney degrees. Also it’s scientifically proven most women by 27 want to be married with at least 1 kid which gives them far more joy than any office job or career. Sure a lot of women do want to return to work to a degree but more part time than a full blown career. Meanwhile lots of the men are doing stupid degrees when they should be doing something more practical so as to be able to pay the bills properly / providing for their families properly once married. What a big mess we’re all in. But we need a Conservative movement in Education, Media and Arts that communicates these points persuasively.
June 24, 2021
…and yet there are still 1.4 million recorded as unemployed
June 24, 2021
Actually Jerry we haven’t left. Your definition of leaving is not valid when the EU still have so much control. Still that must please the likes of you.
June 24, 2021
Here’s one whom I mentioned earlier as a group, then.
June 24, 2021
your point is?
June 25, 2021
@FUS; Yours is an assertion, not a internationally accepted fact. The UK has left the EU, just not to yours or many peoples liking!
June 24, 2021
Jobs will be increasingly taken by automation. Training schemes are needed for jobless with job guarantees on successful completion.
June 25, 2021
@anon; “Jobs will be increasingly taken by automation”
Accountants have been banging on about automation for the best part of 50 years now, yet most jobs are not and can never be automated -other than accountancy that is!
June 25, 2021
Wrong again Jerry
You have lived through the biggest change towards automation in the history of the world without you even noticing.
You couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
Mining, building, construction, steel, aluminium, cars, welding, spray painting, electronics, computers, textiles, the list is endless.
Labouring and dreadful repetitive back breaking jobs have been replaced by automation.
And thank goodness.
June 26, 2021
Oh dear, someone is mixing up “automation” (commonly called robotics) with mechanisation…
June 26, 2021
herry
The two things are inexorably connected and create the same end result.
Humans as a result are able to avoid repetitive boring labour intensive drudgery work and be set free to do more exciting innovative work at higher value.
Try stopping it.
June 24, 2021
We could have done it better. We assumed that the EU would act in good faith during the separation negotiations, they did not. Their motivation was punishment, ours was a return of our sovereignty.
We were our own worst enemy in the process. A thoroughly duplicitous prime minister, backed by a civil service only interested in its own powerbase, an EU that allowed them to bypass the democratic process via Parliament, and large industry whose power was across the EU in cahoots with similar in the EU.
Boris, having taken on the battle and still harbouring good faith was left to sort it out. He let his eye off the ball in the case of NI, leaving a viral infection in the running of the UK, and a potential cause for the rebirth of the troubles so called.
What to do. Give the EU two weeks to back of completely or accept that the so called treaty has not worked and that it will therefore become null and void a week later. The UK is being blackmailed and should end it. It would trump the EU threat of trade sanctions in the event of us not accepting the NIP.
The EU will undoubtedly interfere with UK power requiements via interconnectors. We need to therefore take steps to slow the decommissioning of existing generating capacity and the Light Brigade charge to everything green until we have alternatives. Understand that the EUs intentions towards us are malicious and need to be blocked, but do not necessarily reflect the intentions of Europeans.
June 24, 2021
Your Withdrawal Agreement is a legally binding international treaty. Mr Frost talks tough but we know he always capitulates. He has asked for an extension to the grace period – which the EU will grant – so you can work out how to send sausages to a part of our own country.
On the plus side we can all laugh at your farce.
Reply The Withdrawal Agreement is open to differing interpretations. Ultimately the disagreements can only be sorted out by negotiation or by each side taking control of the things that are properly under their control. GB/NI internal market has to b e under UK control
June 24, 2021
O dear Mr Redwood, it seems you STILL haven’t read the Withdrawal Agreement! The situation of NI/GB is not open to differing interpretations, it is the ECJ that will decide. I recommend you read Article 12 of the Protocol, which hands over the fate of NI to the ECJ. You voted for it, back in January last year!
Reply I voted for a UK Act of Parliament which contained a crucial sovereignty clause. I urged the government to improve the NI part and made clear if they did not we would need to exercise our sovereign rights to sort it out. When they did not secure an NI improvement I refused to vote for the final Agreement. I will not publish lies about what I said or did.
June 24, 2021
John Redwood (and Owen Patterson), the only two Conservative MPs not to support the final agreement have been vindicated by events
June 24, 2021
Both good people
June 24, 2021
The extension to the grace period in the ‘sausage war’ is the first step in the re-organisation of the NIP. The EU by acting stupidly have shown themselves up as they did with the AZ vaccine and are realising that their actions are another boomerang which will hit them in the face again and is doing them no good whatsoever, just showing how petty they are not to agree to allow sausages and cold meats into our own land. How can any sensible regime be afraid that sausages will undermine their market of, as we are told, 500 million? It’s just ridiculous and beyond parody. It is the EU looking silly, not the UK in this matter. You can be sure that if they thought refusal would further their aims, they would not allow the extension.
June 24, 2021
Very true, Graham.
June 24, 2021
The attitude of the EU seems to be that if just one pack of British made sausages found its way across the border into the Republic, despite still conforming to EU standards and despite being duly labelled to make it clear that they should not be sold outside Northern Ireland:
https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0618/1229037-tony-connelly-brexit/
then the whole EU Single Market would be irreparably damaged.
I wonder how many such packs have been taken across during the past six months; I suspect that it will have been a very small number, leaving aside the odd pack that somebody living in the south bought while shopping in the north. In other words, a huge fuss about next to nothing.
June 26, 2021
Exactly. As you and others, including me have been saying since it was first mooted, the whole fuss over the Protocol being necessary to protect their precious single market has been nothing more than a stick to beat the UK with.
As Bernard Jenkin said, had a good Irish politician like Bertie Ahern been in charge in Dublin, he would have ensured that a bilateral agreement would have been negotiated and put in place and Barnier told afterwards. Instead, we had to contend with that idiot Varadkar who is nothing more than a Brussels poodle. We had better brace ourselves for more of the same when Varadkar is back in charge in Dublin from December next year.
June 24, 2021
Agricola
+1 Especially the fourth paragraph.
Action speaks louder than words.
June 24, 2021
+1 We need men in Westminster not mice
June 24, 2021
‘The EU will undoubtedly interfere with UK power requirements via interconnectors’. We are now in the position where the UK energy generation capacity is borderline and increasingly reliant on power from the interconnectors. Macron made it clear – indeed threatened – that unless the UK made all fishing grounds available to EU fleets, French interconnectors might well become unavailable to us. It was briefly reported on a single day and then withdrawn, that EU fleets were in all our waters just as before. And now, the French owners of the Dungeness power station have declared it will soon be decommissioned, leaving us even more vulnerable and reliant on the interconnectors. These and many other actions taken by the EU are vindictive, aimed at keeping as much control as possible to punish us for having the temerity (in their eyes) of leaving their undemocratic club. She might take the view that, in the case of the interconnectors and our fishing grounds, that the EU is blackmailing us into submission so as to get their own way.
June 24, 2021
Yes, Martyn, the EU empire is our enemy.
June 25, 2021
NickC
if the EU is our enemy does that make all te 26 memeber countries and their people our enemy as well?
June 25, 2021
Not Europe
June 24, 2021
Rights of refugees.
Really have settled that one. Our Border Force and Home Office are operating a perceived open house policy.
The government have the majority to fully address the situation, all we get is, yet more talk.
June 24, 2021
Not even talk; Priti doesn’t bother to pretend any longer.
June 24, 2021
At the end of the day I’ll be counting up how many comments Andy and MiC have made. I’ll get my calculator out.
June 24, 2021
It’s called Brexit derangement syndrome.
These people cannot accept life outside the protectionist scam that is the EU.
The way Brussels has behaved since the vote should have settled the matter once and for all.
I just assume these remainiacs like self flaglation.
June 24, 2021
‘protectionist scam that is the EU’ – it’s just wrong to say that the EU hasn’t been beneficial. It helped strengthen / stabilise Europe after WW2. That’s profound.
But I agree with Brexiters with their arguments that it makes more practical sense to govern oneself and that the benefits of the EU to Europe are no longer what there were compared to Europe of the 1950s say to 1980s say. But we have to keep to measured, nuanced argument otherwise it all becomes an exercise in ‘I’m right, you’re wrong ..’ when things are often not that black and white
June 26, 2021
NATO was the organisation that helped stabilise Europe after World War Two.
The EU didn’t exist until the 1990’s
June 24, 2021
Sea_Warrior
I donāt think that a mere calculator will suffice, you will need a Supercomputer!
June 24, 2021
I just ignore trash! It soon gets incinerated.
June 24, 2021
The rest of you seem to be under-privileged contributors.
June 24, 2021
Was the glossy brochure anyway part funded by government sources?
June 24, 2021
Probably, and part written by Martin and Andy.
June 24, 2021
So you think the ” biggest win is the right of our country to decide for itself”. Really? Can we decide that our people shall work in Germany without restriction? No. Can we decide we will sell our fish to France without restriction? No. Can we participate in cross-border just-in-time supply chains? No. Can we do trade deals backed by the might of 28 countries? No. Can we sell British goods in Northern Irelanmd without checks? No. The answer to all these questions was “yes” before your pointless self-harming Brexit
Reply Can we do a trade deal outside Eu? yes
Can we spend our own money on our own priorities?Yes
Can we help more students than in Erasmus? Yes
Can we buy more UK goods under better procurement rules? Yes
Can we decide how many migrants to invite? Yes
June 24, 2021
How’s that EU/US trade deal coming along? Brussels has had DECADES to get such a deal done.
June 24, 2021
They’d better get a move on, Sleepy Joes is pro EU. Once the Donald gets back in they will have had it.
June 24, 2021
Reply to reply
+1 positive thinking, pity some of your colleagues are not attempting to talk the talk.
June 24, 2021
@Malone – work in Germany, when did Germany become part of the UK? 28 Countries with a protectionist un-democratic Rulers is not a home to ‘free trade’ even within it own borders.
June 24, 2021
Malone, UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, confirmed that the UK will not continue with the Erasmus exchange program because it was too expensive. The EU Erasmus + program cost the UK around ā¬160 million each year. The government also wants the scheme to help more UK students to study abroad, rather than helping international students to study in the UK. A more reciprocal agreement.
The Turing scheme will be backed by Ā£100 million and this new scheme will help thousands of students in the UK study across the world. According to the UK Governmentās website, the Turing scheme will be similar to Erasmus+ but it will enable around 35,000 UK students to study and do work placements in countries around the world, instead of just in countries in the EU. I’m not sure why the EU has excluded themselves from this international scheme. Perhaps it is because ‘There is an expectation that higher education (HE) providers will agree tuition fee waivers with their partner HE providers, in order to facilitate student study placements.ā and they don’t want to work with the UK in co-operation.
June 24, 2021
āa Brexit public seeks to educate an anti Brexit establishment ā
That battle will continue. There will be much foot dragging, obstruction and complaint from the establishment.
June 24, 2021
No, ā build back our ties with the rest of Europeā is not code for trying to rejoin, it is simply to ask for what Vote Leave PROMISED in 2016 – frictionless trade with the EU, no borders, no downside. Your Brexit prospectus was false and every day it is being exposed. No wonder you are so desperately trying to blame everyone but yourself for the damage done to our country!
June 24, 2021
Indeed, Garland, but these people are simply unshameable, it appears.
June 24, 2021
Vote Leave were in no position to promise anything. However, the politicians and political parties who campaigned on a promise to respect the result of the referendum did have the means to honour their promises, and many didn’t, hence the rogue Parliament of 2017-2019. Vote Leave were being hopeful, but the rogue undemocratic remainer politicians lied outright in order to gain a seat, and did it knowingly!
June 24, 2021
There is absolutely no such thing as a Rogue Parliament under the UK Constitution.
It is simply supreme and that’s that.
The fact that you and John did not like it is neither here nor there.
June 24, 2021
Martin, The rogue Parliaments of 2016-2019 attempted to overturn our national democratic vote for independence before it was implemented, and without a democratic mandate, and contrary to promises made to honour our vote in 2015 and 2017.
June 24, 2021
A Government – Cameron’s – may have undertaken to honour the advisory referendum, but it does not trump Parliament and nor can it bind its successors.
June 24, 2021
Shirley M
Rogue politicians.
Well said, absolutely correct.
June 24, 2021
Garland
The EU run a series of protectionist Policies to protect the EU in the way that it wants, and I have absolutely no problem with that, they can do as they like.
Thus in turn we should run our Country the way we like, and if that means behaving in a way to protect our systems and wishes, then fine by me.
It would seem to me that we have tried to co-operate with the EU on many things with plenty of give and little take, but they seem to want everything always in their favour, so time to give up on that front for a while, even if it causes us short term harm, whilst we make other arrangements which will suit us better in the longer term.
Time will tell who will benefit in the longer term.
There is nothing to stop those who prefer the EU life to live or work there if they so desire, especially if you have some money, they like other peoples money very much, that is why even with Covid they are begging us to take our holidays there.
June 24, 2021
Frictionless trade was a promise made by remain politicians in power. Those who voted leave were under no illusions that the EU wouldn’t make things as difficult as they could, so as to discourage the others.
June 24, 2021
Frictionless trade was promised by the likes of Michael Gove during the referendum campaign.
June 24, 2021
Strange concept this ” frictionless trade” lots pro EU people talk of.
Exporting to any country creates lots of paperwork, can involve customs physical checks as well as having to prove the goods meet all the quality and regulatory requirements of the country you are importing into.
Exporting into EU nations whilst we were members was no less bureaucratic than exporting into many non EU countries.
PS
Peter Parsons
I cannot find a quote from Mr Gove saying “he promised”
I see a few where he said he hoped for frictionless trade.
Is that what you mean.
June 24, 2021
Nope, I’m referring to a speech he made in the middle of April 2016.
June 24, 2021
Well then quote this single speech.
June 24, 2021
Peter Parsons, what friction is there for the EU when exporting to the UK with?
The Deal seems to be too fair on our part.
June 24, 2021
DA
Indeed
Friction less trade was the aim of some in the UK, Mrs May primarily as I recall, but since the EU refuse to consider it we have to have an alternative, quite why we did not go WTO rules I will never know or understand, but thats our politicians for you.
The fact that so many Remainers did their best to scupper any deal by taking the EU side on everything, certainly did not help our negotiations. In years past briefing other Countries against your own Countries best interests was called treason, for sensible reasons.
June 24, 2021
Garland
“No borders”
Who promised that?
June 24, 2021
I think the Brexitists know Brexit is dead. The pro EU majority in this country is growing. We are, ironically, now the most pro EU country in Europe.
A poll this week shows 75% of 18-24 year olds want to rejoin. 66% of 25-34 year olds want to rejoin. There is a significant majority of 34-55 year olds in favour of rejoining. A small majority of 55-64 year olds backs Brexit – but the only age group that supports it in large numbers is the over 65s.
Demographics makes it inevitable we will rejoin. Probably sometime in the 2030s – or early 2040s.
Reply In a democracy what matters is the overall result regardless of the age, intelligence or background of the voter. The constant insults to Brexit voters is anti democratic and usually badly informed.
June 24, 2021
By the 2040’s you will be approaching my age and hating yourself for being ‘old’.
June 24, 2021
Itās possible.
More likely is we end up like Switzerland and Norway. Both had referenda in the early 90s on the EEA and EU respectively. The business political and media class in both countries was for the EU option and opinion divided roughly as it did in the U.K., 50-50. The eurosceptic vote won by narrow margins in both cases, as in the U.K. 30 years later you donāt meet anyone in either country in favour of joining, there is no movement to do so, and public support for joining is around 10% in both. You should think about why that might be.
June 24, 2021
Don’t think so Andy- they will never let us back in again – our Govt MP’S MEP’S rag press etc left such a bad taste then slammed the door when we were leaving – it will not be forgotten ever. Of course in time we will get some side deals but never the same again – so Liz Truss better get a move on with these new trade deals she’s promising with countries on the other side of the world – jeez
June 24, 2021
Fortunately immature, idealistic, brainwashed youngsters grow older and wiser.
June 24, 2021
Andy was writing of the under-fifties, but insult them all you like, do.
June 24, 2021
Andy is only just under 50 so how is that applicable?
June 24, 2021
Another post from Andy reporting a survey but not giving a source. I thought Mr Google might have it but he doesn’t seem to know about this. There was a Yougov survey back in January https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/n9d62zhic4/EUreferendum_Jan21_w.pdf
which showed that a majority of people 50 or above did not wish to be in the EU, whereas a majority of those under 50 did. You could interpret that as Andy would. Or you could say that people with longer experience of life, and who’ve lived through (and seen through) all the political shenanigans, think we’re better off out of the EU.
June 24, 2021
Itās a Savanta Comres poll and was published either yesterday or Tuesday. You are most welcome.
June 24, 2021
Where was this poll carried by and how many took part? If the poll had less than the referendum or a GE then it is meaningless.
I had to wait 40+ years to be able to re-vote on the EEC referendum because most politicians knew what the result would be, as I am sure the result of the original referendum was fixed.
Just so know prior to the referendum I told anyone who contacted me how I would vote I said to stay in then at the actual referendum I voted the way I know was for the best of the country, out.
June 24, 2021
You also got to vote on EEC / EU membership in general elections in 1979, 1983, 1987, 1992, 1997, 2001, 2005, 2010 and 2015. All of which you lost. All of which returned a vast majority of pro-Europe MPs, with a vast majority of voters voting for pro-Europe parties.
A majority of voters have not once voted for Tory Brexit at any election ever.
June 24, 2021
That is ridiculous propaganda andy.
Voters had no direct ability to vote primarily on EEC EU matters.
No party asked us to vote on one such issue.
General Elections centered on issues about employment, inflation local , issues immigration, benefits, education, transport, affordable housing and many other issues.
June 24, 2021
Andy, typically British to lose the battle but win the war.
June 24, 2021
Whatever will you do if there is no EU to Rejoin in 2040? In any case, what would your campaign platform be?:
– Let’s abandon the trade deals we’ve made around the world with enormous disruption to our economy and businesses.
– Let’s destroy our fishing industry and give our fishing grounds away.
– Let’s have our laws made by foreign countries.
– Let’s have our borders controlled by foreign countries (though admittedly they couldn’t make a worse job of it than our current British pols).
– Let’s place our armed forces under control of foreign countries, to be dragged into wars that don’t involve us.
– Let’s adopt the Euro and bail out Southern European countries.
– Let’s regain the right to freely move to European countries that don’t want us, provided you understand the number of emigrants will be dwarfed by the numbers of undesirables and unskilled who come here.
– For all this, let’s pay a stonking annual fee out of general taxation which partly funds a gravy train and partly represents a subsidy by ordinary taxpayers to large businesses.
June 24, 2021
Andy, Why are you so critical of young people? I accept that they have been indoctrinated into believing Remain falsehoods about the EU empire. And also into a risk averse mindset where the EU is presented as the least risky option. But even your figures (what the Independent wants to hear?) show they grow out of such fears. Young people just need to grow up, Andy, and start accepting risk as part of life. Indeed the idea that the EU is somehow “safer” is a delusion anyway.
June 24, 2021
They will have to tear up the Maastricht Treaty first.
I can’t see our debt to GDP ratio falling to 60% any time during the next 2 decades.
More likely the economy will collapse first, then who would want us to join anything anywhere?
June 24, 2021
The prospectus was not false. With May and Robbins in control the EU decided that they could offer less and at the same time punish us for having the temerity to leave. Correcting the mess that May left is taking time. However it will be done because the political cost of failure exceeds the electorates support for this conservative party. At present no other parliamentary party is offering acceptable solutions. For the conservatives it is a matter of political survival, particularly when you consider many other IEDs they have set for themselves.
June 24, 2021
One of the biggest benefits of Brexit was finding out which politicians and which political parties actually respect democracy and the will of the voters. It turned out that not many respected either.
The rogue Parliament of 2017-2019 also shocked me. The undemocratic parties ganged up and tried to prevent Brexit and even tried to prevent a GE in an effort to prevent the electorate getting rid of the undemocratic politicians. Even worse, the majority obtained their seats on a promise to respect the referendum result. They deliberately lied to their voters and got away with it (for a while).
All this achieved was to destroy the trust of voters for politicians and make us more determined to restore our failing democracy. We still need MORE democracy, not less. I admire the Swiss style of democracy, but anything that gives the electorate more power to get rid of undemocratic dishonest politicians would be a start and would maybe help keep politicians more honest.
June 24, 2021
Representative democracy is not democracy-it is-or soon results in-oligarchy.And facilitated by an unrestrained fiat money system.
See Robert Michels’ 1911 “Iron Law Of Oligarchy”.
June 24, 2021
Big talk as usual about the alleged win back of control. But that’s the usual BS. What we want to know is what specifically. We don’t get that.
All ‘Boris’ and his party man talk about here is generalisations, and potential with much ahead. That means nothing much has been done.
We are treated just as before as idiots, and views not liked are not published.
June 24, 2021
The Prangwizard
I can personally testify to that, free speech doesnāt exist here!
The Conservative Woman is the place to go if you want Free Speech, no moderation, and the ability to up or down vote comments and all the articles are relevant!
Now letās see if this makes it past the moderation process?
June 24, 2021
@The Prangwizard I think it is called ‘Grand Standing’ to let people know you are still there, there is as the last 5 years have shown no desire for action.
June 24, 2021
Well yes ….it is indeed forecasts that UK GDP will rise by 7.2% in 2021, ( the fastest growth since 1941 ), Sir John has omitted to mention that this after a 9.8% contraction in 2020 ā the worst in almost 300 years.. Yesterday he was telling us now many foreigners had pitched up, up to to March 2020 ( boo hiss! )and forgetting the record outflow this year…well he is very old .
Our constitutional position was barely mentioned because the Leave propogandists knew no-one much cared about the EU per se .Leave voters were promised a lot , far less immigration better housing better jobs better funded services.
In fact the country is now close to 100% of GDP in debt , Sunak is contemplating which taxes he will raise to pay for Brexit and Covid , N Ireland is a horrible mess and Scotland`s exit accelerated . The Easiest negotiation ever has turned out to be a decent into outright mutual loathing and the early signs show the treasury are right to think the Economic damage will be disastrous.
June 24, 2021
The push for Green nor the global pandemic will be mentioned.
We’ve had – for example – 5 years to get lorry drivers trained up. We knew this was going to be a problem in 2016.
So no. I don’t trust Boris to get it right on charging points for cars by 2030.
June 24, 2021
Losers’ consent, without which there is no democracy.
The left (made up of either crusties or well off metropolitans who feel guilty) do not value democracy as they think they know best.
Unfortunately they undermined our negotiating position and have compromised what could have been an easy, good deal for both sides.
June 24, 2021
Do you think that if 51% vote to eat the other 49% then the losers should consent?
It’s not universally applicable.
Where to draw the limit is a philosophical question.
June 24, 2021
Another ridiculous post by MiC
Extreme projection and illogical projection of a straightforward issue.
We had a vote.
You lost.
June 24, 2021
There is no logic to the anti-Brexit scaremongering – There nothing on their side except some strange futuristic dreamworld where we are all ‘as one’.
How can even the most ardent EU lover believe that the EU is our friend – Apart from a declaration of war against us, what else does the EU need to do to show they are anything but a friend.
These people that keep stirring up emotions and are out to cause trouble should be thoroughly investigated to see where they get their funding from and what connections they have with the EU, for it is impossible to believe they can really believe what they are saying…
June 24, 2021
+1
June 24, 2021
Itās you who chose to leave. You seem surprised not to be treated as a member of a club you chose to leave. You really do not live in a grown-up world
June 25, 2021
What typical nonsense from a whinging remoaner.
The club was never very friendly when we were in it – we had practically no influence, and being in the EU was just too painful.
Now outside the club, the EU treat us as an enemy and try to snare us in traps to sap our strength, restrain our natural innovation — The EU keeps showing its true colours, but so many whingers ignore how hostile the EU is to those that don’t bend the knee to it
June 25, 2021
Bryan
You are getting carried away, Denmark, Sweden and FInland are not enmies theya re allies?
June 26, 2021
I’m not talking about individual countries – I’m talking about the behemoth a form of the primeval chaos-monster – that is the over-regulated EU, now frightened of its own shadow in case we gain some advantage
June 24, 2021
What is even more concerning since we partially exited the EU is how the British State has now targeted our freedoms and liberties. Is this in revenge for those who dared to vote to leave the EU?
Are the indigenous population being targeted for their temerity in opposing the Establishment’s pro-EU position? I believe we are
The embrace and proliferation of Neo-Marxist, racially infused politics to demonise, to silence and to slander and shame into submission is now completely out of control with new laws and even private sector companies pushing vile, slanderous ideas such as ‘white privilege’ or ‘unconscious bias’. This is very much Labour’s politics but the Tory party’s embrace of it is utterly abhorrent.
For Tory politicians racial issues are a massive no-go area and that exposes us the demo majority to real harm. Successive Tory governments desperate to appease the Neo-Marxist race lobby have surreptitiously rolled out this racial agenda across all areas to try and silence the majority to prevent the debate from being had and thereby protecting the Tory party from harm
This issue isn’t going anyway no matter how far into sand Tory heads are buried.
I myself will not be demonised by footballers who use Marxist symbolism to attack innocent people or private companies who target their core customer base with snide inferences that they are a natural problem.
This politics dates back decades and is causing resentment. There is no need for this political agenda. That it has occurred during Lockdown makes it even more suspicious and sinister
May and now Johnson has afforded legitimacy to the politics. This is surely an event so shocking that all decent people should boycott both parties and all private companies who too seek to silence, shame and slander by playing white off against non-white
It is incumbent on Tory MPs to expose their own leaders and advisers on their pernicious support of this politics. There is now an agenda and that agenda is the total control of our lives
June 24, 2021
Iām absolutely no economist but surely the housing market is being propped up by artificially fixed interest rates and unfettered mass immigration? And by the oh so kind Stamp Duty holiday.
A fix in other words.
Iām beginning to wonder why anyone would want a house in this horrible country! ( Yesā¦yesā¦I know that pragmatically we need a house etc. but I am soooo out of love with this sh*tty government!).
If we have actually left the EU why donāt online sellers realise it? I still canāt buy goods from America as I used to.
June 24, 2021
The European Union had trade arrangements with the US.
The UK has left those.
June 24, 2021
Yet trade has continued.
June 25, 2021
You have just made your customary fool of yourself, yet again by not reading the comment to which I replied.
June 25, 2021
The only fool is you MiC yet again.
Goods are coming here to the UK from USA without difficulties and we are still exporting to the USA.
There is no proper trade deal between the EU and USA who are the EU’s largest trading partner.
June 24, 2021
Well it seems to be because the retailers think we are still in the EU.
āAn important message for our European Union (EU) customers:
Due to the recent implementation of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR), we’re unable to provide EU users with access to our siteā.
So I wonder why they think that we are still in the EU? But then, I suppose we signed up to the GDPR?
Addicted to signing up to trouble!
June 24, 2021
In my travels around Europe I see so many American cars, white goods, food and wine. A very evident trade arrangement.
June 24, 2021
The roll-over of all the EU trade deals, the independent trade deal with Australia, the prospect of more such deals and of joining CPTPP are all undoubted triumphs, and comprehensively debunk one of the main planks of project fear.
But you are certainly right that so far few if any of the freedoms have been made use of. Indeed all the trade deals do so far is replicate what we had in the EU. We are perhaps 2, certainly not much more than 3 years from the next election. If we are still in a situation then where, for all the rhetoric, we havenāt really done much we couldnāt have done in the EU, there will be a very strong case to (re-)join EEA / EFTA. If I was Starmer Iād think about an electoral pact with the Scottish nationalists etc on this platform – and PR. Wake up Conservative MPs – the clock is ticking!
June 24, 2021
Obviously the jewel in the crown is the governmentās self awarded, shiny new ability to imprison and threaten us at will!
Oh what a lark!
June 24, 2021
Our host fails to mention my main complaint about Brexit, which is that when we were Europeans my two children had the right to choose where they would like to live and work across an entire continent. That right has been stripped from them. Other people will decide these things for them now, which hardly seems like taking back control.
Reply They can still go to an EU country if they wish under rules made by the very EU you admire. The UK will not be trying to stop them.
June 24, 2021
My son has already had two jobs in mainland Europe post-Brexit. If your two children have the skills then they too will be able to work in any country. I know many people who have worked all over the world. I also know many Chinese, Indian, Russian, Canadian, and American’s who live and work in Spain. These countries are not in the EU yet their citizens manage to obtain work visas. Do your children actually want to work abroad or are you just moaning about something that will never be relevant? If under age 35 they now have the opportunity to live and work in Australia visa-free.
June 24, 2021
W I H
Nothing has changed. If you have the right qualifications and experience and the drive you can get wwork in any country in the world that needs those skills. Might be a bit more difficult and you have no proven skills and just want to wait tables or general labouring tasks.
June 24, 2021
I lived and worked in Europe for years before the EU even existed. Pre-EU each country in Europe simply decided for itself who could enter, and a useful skill was all it took. The EU created new barriers and then graciously allowed you to cross them.
June 25, 2021
I’d drive Andy to the Chunnel station if I knew he would not come back.
June 24, 2021
When UK was negotiating the FTA with the EU the Remainers were so desperate for the deal to be made they advised us to bow to all EU demands on fishing because “fishing makes up an negligible part of UK’s GDP” and it wasn’t worth going to “No Deal” just for the sake of fishing. But now the deal has been concluded suddenly they tell us that fishing is a vital part of the UK’s economy and the import red tape the EU has applied to it is a major issue.
I think if you polled students as to whether they wanted to go to Germany under the ERASMUS scheme or Australia under the new scheme you’d get only one answer. My assumption is Erasmus was mostly used by middle-class language students. Concentrating on English-speaking countries in the new scheme would open it up to far wider and more diverse participation.
June 24, 2021
I guess we have 34 years to find out the consequences before the next referendum is due (I doubt the argument we took so long to leave will be taken into account).
I think it is a serious problem for the conservative party as there are splits developing between its northern ‘red wall’ MPs and its southern MPs who are different in both character and belief.
I also think it is sad that we still really haven’t moved on as a country since the debate. Brexiteers believe it is a success. Remainers believe it has been a disaster. Nobody seems to be changing their mind.
My one personal hope is that it leads to the break-up of the union and no longer will England have to fork out for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland while getting a tirade of abuse in return. It’s not a healthy relationship.
June 24, 2021
Once upon a time any wishing out loud for what you want would have been charged with Treason.
June 24, 2021
True that
June 24, 2021
nothing stops you wishing out loud, and almost all of it unrealistic cloud cuckoo land.
June 24, 2021
No it would not.
Another ridiculous post MiC
June 25, 2021
Peter 2
you are really very busy man aren’t you ?
June 26, 2021
You too billy it seems.
June 24, 2021
Interesting article by Andrew Adonis in todayās Independent about his campaign to eventually rejoin the EU. No mention of any of the drawbacks of a new UK membership (not least having the Euro as our currency should we rejoin) and he has no misgivings about the Commissionās current unhelpful stance on several issues. He seems chronically out of touch and arrogant, but as the man who in effect invented HS2 perhaps we shouldnāt be surprised. Nonetheless the danger of such figures exerting influence and helping drift us back in to EU rules over time via Statutory Instruments under a new government is still there.
June 24, 2021
Yes, and on his record, has managed to keep HS2 going despite most people in the UK wanting it cancelled so it would be unwise to doubt the reach of a man who has never been elected to anything much above a parish council.
June 24, 2021
We should not be surprised at the the EU propaganda, as it has been existing on a loss making economy for years and now that we have left, it is hurtling towards the buffers at an alarming rate. We and Germany masked their appalling financial management and now that Germany is on its own, it is questioning what it can or should do.
This glossy publication is directed towards those states that are getting increasingly disenchanted and is trying to persuade them not to leave. We, on the outside, are expanding our influence around the world and illustrating the huge advantage of being able to take our own decisions.
The EU ambassador to the UK is reported to have predicted, in a speech in Scotland, that the UK will break up, and no doubt this was timed to coincide with the publication of this glossy brochure. I hope he is hauled up in front of the Foreign Secretary and told to ‘wind his neck in’!
To those critics that say we are not taking advantage of the benefits of leaving I would point out that a month before we left, Covid-19 and a pandemic arrived on our shores. We have progressed far quicker than the EU, who have and still are making a mess of recovering and they will do anything to cause us a problem.
Who needs enemies when you have friends like that just 22 miles away?
June 24, 2021
Neither can Brexiteers and the Government just “…accept the result of a big democratic vote” with so many quislings at large poisoning so many endeavours. Rather it should be proselytizing about the virtues of Brexit and demonstrating the facts through action of the like you have often advocated. Instead we have what looks too much like five years of dither, assisted of course by May the quislings refusal to establish a post-Brexit department to plan for the then future.
The Foreign Office ought to be compelled to wage a propaganda war to explain to the peoples of the Evil Empire why Brexit occurred and what we look for now in our relationship with member states, rather than allow by default the lies propagated by Eurocrats and others to define public thinking. The message to be relayed cannot be stated too often or too persuasively.
June 24, 2021
So you implicitly admit that brexit is a religion – thanks.
June 24, 2021
And in other news a Brussels Commissioner has threatened once again to use vaccine production in the EE to force us to comply with their wishes.
I thought we were self sufficient?
June 24, 2021
@Nig l of course the EU must punish and threaten and our Government will comply.
The Pfizer jab comes from the EU. the only problem for that silly man is the raw materials to make it comes from the UK – but he grabbed a headline to ensure you don’t forget they are our Rulers
June 24, 2021
The EU has planned to remove that dependency. So they can actually carry out the threat as was intended but they got scared when they realized the dependency. Even though i cant imagine why we would stoop so low to effectively reduce needed vaccine supply.
Pfzier must be required to supply from a self sufficient UK chain or an approved list of Non -EU countries which honoured commercial contracts.
June 24, 2021
Guess what? ‘Boris’ will concede, and he will smirk when he lies that he’s not doing so.
June 24, 2021
….an annuvver fing
You want an open border between a North and South Ireland and a closed border Between the UK and the EU and when ( amazingly ) this turns out to be impossible you want to blame …who…seriously ?
You haven’t been injecting yourself with disinfectant have you ?
June 24, 2021
The European Union for causing the problem by existing, of course.
I suppose that they would also blame the Boeing crashes on gravity.
June 24, 2021
I do pray each night that I may be allowed to see the eu collapse before I die!
Peace would return to Europe
June 24, 2021
“The euro will be dead and buried by Christmas 2012” as someone called Nigel once said.
He wanted much the same thing.
Now, where is this war in the European Union?
The last was on these islands as I recall?
June 24, 2021
Newmania, Throughout my lifetime and longer there has been an open border between ROI and the UK whichever route you choose. There has always been a border of varying degrees of openness between The UK and Europe/EU. Even in 1940-1944 it was penetrable. Until recently goods travelling back and forth were managed electronically and continue to be so UK/EU by any route and could continue to be so UK/ROI. For some reason such as , I would contend malevolence, the EU has decided that its virginity is suddenly vulnerable at the UKNI/ROI border such that they demand the contraceptive of control of all trade UK/NI, 99% of which is not destined for the ROI/EU. It is a total nonesense until you look at the malicious intent clause.
Solution, Art 16 of the NIP should be invoked on the grounds of its impracticality and its interference with the sovereignty of the UK as a whole. If the EU then wish a border between NI and ROI tell them it will have to be on ROI territory if of course the ROI agree to it. Left to me I would cease all trading with the ROI which in either direction is not worth a bucket of beans, and we now have high quality options.
Suggest you keep your injecting habits to yourself and friend MiC who now seems to be touting himself as an aviation accident expert.
June 24, 2021
That is sort of random ……Until recently we were in the EU or in the transition, since then there has been a border. The UK would like light touch border control, because the UK would like to have the advantages of being in the EU without paying the costs .
Clearly that was never going to be an option.
It all worked very well until you broke it. The working population of the UK is already very tired of “Its not my fault”. It is , you chose this, you own it…..just don`t touch anything else
June 25, 2021
This ‘working population’ seems to give you Remoaners a lot of information hidden from the rest of us. Presumably, like Andy and MiC you know millions of people.
June 25, 2021
Do you not realise there has been a border for decades NM?
June 24, 2021
I feel a bit sad for quittlings. In 2016 you voted leave because you thought leaving would make our country better. Most of you had the best intentions at heart.
Both campaigns were appalling – focussing on slogans not detail. So unless you had done your research – and letās face it, you hadnāt – you really did not know what you were voting for.
But one thing is certain. You were not voting for this mess that the Brexitists have imposed.
You did not vote for a border down the Irish Sea. You did not vote for masses more paperwork. You did not vote to make it harder to trade. You did not vote for fewer rights for your kids. You did not vote for your expat friends to be forced home. You did not vote for your Spanish friends to be felt compelled to leave the U.K. You did not vote for gunboats in the Channel. You did not vote for an end to a beloved student exchange programme. You did not vote to put touring musicians out of work. You did not vote for a Ā£1bn duplication of chemical industry regulations. You did not vote for visa waivers to go on holiday. You did not vote for shortages of food and building supplies. You did not vote to turn your generation against young people. You did not vote to to turn Scotland against England. You did not vote to harm our fishermen. You did not vote to lower farming standards. You did not vote to allow a government elected by a minority to impose whatever trade deals it likes on us without MPs having a proper say. You did not vote to damage our democracy. You did not vote to wound our constitution. You did not vote to harm our economy. You did not vote to risk the United Kingdom. You did not vote to lower our standing in the world. You did not vote to harm livelihoods and lives.
And yet your vote did all of those things and more.
The word you need is āsorry.ā
Reply We voted to take back control Remain MPs insisted on an Agreement with the EU which was not what we voted for
June 24, 2021
Leave MPs insisted there would be an Agreement with the EU – the easiest deal in human history they said, fixed up over a cup of coffee. And we were told no one was talking about leaving the single market
reply Isaid no such thing and always said No Deal would be a good outcome . Do not lie about me.
June 24, 2021
Bit of a melt-down there, Andy. I expect that others will note that you are arguing against you own invented dystopia, not against what has actually happened.
June 24, 2021
Boycott Marks and Spencer in the way these companies boycott GB News
June 24, 2021
You can now have George Floyd undercrackers – surely another clothing winner for M&S. Not. Any business involving itself in politics has a death wish.
June 24, 2021
Yes. I understand they are using their underwear to support Marxism.
Unbelievable!
June 24, 2021
We need to go maskless.
Masks are the ultimate in oppression. They are NOT something to get used to. They are dehumanising and they inhibit human interaction and why do we need to wear them in the open air such as at railway stations ?
Our most obvious Brexit success, the vaccine roll out, has been squandered and Germany has done better at freeing its people.
Have we been deliberately held back to allow the EU to save face ?
June 24, 2021
It certainly seems that way.
June 24, 2021
@NLA; “We need to go maskless. “
Are you a Lip-Reader?…
June 24, 2021
Not sure I understand but actually, I am a lip reader.
I have bad tinnitus and need to see people’s mouths to be able to understand what they are saying in noisy environments. (Tinnitus is caused by dead sensors in the ear causing the brain to hear phantom frequencies – many in the range of the human voice.)
June 25, 2021
@NLA; You say you did not understand my question yet a lip reader would have instantly understood, without reference to Tinnitus, of which I also suffer, but often have to work in environments were mask wearing is mandatory. I take it you would have no objection, should there be such a required, to carry on wearing either see-through masks or a visor, given that your objections to masks appears to be because you need to lip-read?…
June 24, 2021
As only 1% of masks used by the public can actually stop the penetration of the virus you can only conclude that the enforcement in wearing them is for social conditioning
June 24, 2021
glen cullen
Masks were never about stopping the virus. They were made mandatory by very same people who deliberately let the virus into the country in the first place. Masks are an aspect of the authoritarian control that EU quisling Johnson has enjoyed .
Once Johnson and his SAGE chums can’t make everyone wear masks ….him and his lot are finished and they know it.
June 24, 2021
“The ultimate in oppression”?
Worse than concentration camps?
Do you never think about what you write?
That’s truly one of the silliest things that I have ever read.
June 24, 2021
MiC
Your reply to NLA was possibly the cheapest thing you’ve ever posted on here. Is that the best you can do ?
June 25, 2021
@steve; How is that black eye of yours this morning, after your knee jerked so high in reply to a very pertinent comment from MIC?
June 25, 2021
Very well said Steve.
MiC’s post was ridiculous
June 25, 2021
Jerry
You have an oscillatory disorder of the upper limb, affecting your right hand……so not as bad as a black eye from MiC, assuming he had the guts to come out from behind his net curtains.
June 25, 2021
Very well said again Steve.
June 25, 2021
‘one of the silliest things’ – But you keep providing more !
June 24, 2021
+100%
June 25, 2021
No, they just fixed their problems as they generally do.
June 24, 2021
While Iām hopeful for the future Iām still concerned that this ābrexitā is a ābrinoā and the winning side in the referendum five years ago can feel justifiably cheated by our political class and system of democracy
June 24, 2021
@glen cullen; “cheated by our political class and system of democracy”
Do you ever understand the words you use so glibly?… Some Brexiteers just do not give up trying to force others along a very undemocratic road to wherever that unmentioned destination might turn out to be, and no it is not and never has been ‘Brexit’, the latter was just the vehicle.
How do we know how many who voted to Leave five years ago wanted BRINO, how many wanted a WTO exit, or some place between (all destinations were offered in the 28 Brexit manifestos). No one was, and has ever been, asked explicitly [1] How the UK should have left the EU, the only question on the ballot was IF we should leave or not;
To answer the “How” question would have needed another referenda, or referendums, given the multiple possibilities.
[1] at best the “How” question was answered via the two general elections in 2017 and 2019 but many other questions played out in both, such as who would govt the country, Corbyn or May/Johnson
June 24, 2021
Once again your perception is enlightening and valuable in any debate about referendum and screwing the voters
By āpolitical classā I mean any MP that believe they know best, regardless of any vote and by āsystem of democracyā I mean an institution that can by its majority change/alter/ignore the vote of the people
June 25, 2021
@glen cullen; The only people who got “screwed” by the 2016 referenda and its aftermath are those who did not get what they wanted and refuse to accept the result. The only people now trying to “screw” the voters are those trying to claim we voted for policies they have been to cowardly to allow the voters to have an explicit voice on.
That is not a salvo against just Brexiteers, those on the Remain side have also been as equally arrogant. & duplicitous.
June 25, 2021
Very good comment Glen
June 25, 2021
On this we can agree
June 24, 2021
@glen cullen, +1
We had and have a remain HoC that are freighted by independence therefore taking responsibility. This Conservative Government has nothing to fear from the UK Parliament as it accepts rule by the EU.
June 24, 2021
Glen it is not a system of democracy but an abuse of democracy that is trying to cheat us.
June 24, 2021
fully agree – however it might be deemed a system if every MP and Peer, abuses the rights of democracy…a systematic abuse of power
June 24, 2021
Brillo summed them up brilliantly. If they canāt compete they regulate. As The U.K. produces the largest amount of film and tv content obviously there is EU demand yet even Netflix is forced to show so much percentage of EU produced content.
This will be the next āwarā our programmes etc bannned.
June 24, 2021
@Nig l +1
June 24, 2021
I see that O2 recognised the 5 year anniversary by re-introducing roaming charges in Europe.
June 24, 2021
Peter, don’t people that work or live in the EU a lot just have local EU SIMs for their phones whilst in the EU?
June 24, 2021
As someone who has travelled around Europe for work quite regularly – no, I just used my UK SIM. Never bought a local SIM in the EU because I never previously needed to.
June 24, 2021
Itās quite easy to do if you think that you will use more than the 25Gb per month data limit on UK sims, there are lots of wifi free zones too that you can use. I wonder if everyone that didnāt go to Europe as often as you paid for your extra usage spread out between all of them for them to want to stop it now, or is it just to be annoying to Brits?
June 25, 2021
So you didn’t travel around Europe before 2016-17?
June 24, 2021
This is a very misleading post, Peter.
There are no roaming charges on phone calls with O2.
The only new limit is a 25Gb a month limit on DATA.
My contract is 5Gb/month so I would expect to pay more if I exceeded that amount. Only if your contract has more than 25Gb of data included and you exceed 25Gb while abroad would you be charged extra.
June 24, 2021
It’s roaming charges that were not present before and were previously not allowed.
I’d note that EE have today announced charges for roaming in Europe as well.
June 24, 2021
There were roaming charges whilst we were in the EU Peter.
June 25, 2021
P2, not true, my mobileās Vodaphone monthly contract for Ā£24.99 was the same whether I was in the UK, France, Italy or I guess elsewhere on the continent provided I didnāt go over the 10Gb data limit or the 300 calls per month.
June 25, 2021
Well plainly if you paid Vodafone for a specific monthly plan that includes roaming then you were paying for roaming.
June 24, 2021
Peter I think O2 and EE need to explain why? Were the many in the UK who didnāt go to Europe for more than 2 weeks per year previously paying the roaming excess charges for the rest who used roaming a lot in Europe.
Iām not sure who owns these companies are they still British owned companies or majority European owned?
June 25, 2021
Oh come on, canāt you search a bit for the answers to your questions?
Vodaphone is British multinational telecoms company with HQ in Newbury. EE is another one, British too, part of the BT Group, HQ in London.
And whether roaming charges are applied or not is a commercial decision, just figuring out how to extract the maximum money from their customers, nothing much to do with the actual ānationalityā of the company.
June 25, 2021
Oh Hi Hefner, actually no I didnāt I was busy doing wages but I was interested in the answer and this weekend I will be investigating a lot more so thanks for jumping in and answering Peterās question. š
June 25, 2021
Dont worry a-tracey.
Hefty is only on here to disrupt and be sarcastic.
He gets very nasty at times
You have got off lightly !
June 26, 2021
Peter2, he doesnāt worry me at all, I find it quite amusing that he considers me someone to shadow and critique. If these lefties/provocateurs have a pop it makes me think Iām on to something and I should research more and dig a bit deeper. Theyāre getting predicable.
June 26, 2021
a-tracey
Your posts are great.
I realise you are not intimidated by the trolls on here.
Like you I realise that when they are triggered and attack you, it means how right you are.
June 24, 2021
Sir John, as a remain voter I have no “quibbles”. All of my doubts about what Leave said have proved groundless. The pound is stronger than before the referendum, the union with Scotland looks solid, there is no issue at all over the NI border, no British companies have faced any extra cost or red tape as a consequence of leaving the single market as we still have the exact same benefits, our farmers have clarity and great optimism about what will replace their large CAP subsidies, our fishermen are all delighted, the projected growth next year will be all because of Brexit and nothing to do with a post-Covid bounce back and the NHS really is getting an extra Ā£350 million a week. Had we left on WTO terms I think my concerns about the damage that tariffs and quotas would have done to British industry would also have been unfounded. It was all just project fear.
June 24, 2021
An honest appraisal
June 25, 2021
Glen, if people like you were not there, they would have to be invented. Brilliant comment.
June 25, 2021
How witty heffy
June 26, 2021
Peter2
You must be able to do better your response is embarassing
June 24, 2021
This Conservative Government from were I am sitting has reneged on the Referendum.
The UK simply wanted to leave the un-democratic clutches of the EU Commission (which is not a Government but a Trade association). The UK just simply wanted to be on the same footing as any other Free Democratic Sovereign Nation.
No other Nation in the World is being told and held account by a Trade Association on what the do in the confines of their own territory. No other Sovereign Nation has its laws and rules made without due process and with its elected representatives being the ones responsible for their creation, amendments and repeal. The arrangement and control of the UK is the same as Putin’s control of the Crimea.
The MsM has Thierry Breton of the EU Commission hinting that the UK must take EU Rule or have it vaccine supplies cut of. The UK wont be allowed to Govern its self.
That is not the UK leaving the EU. What else has this Conservative Government agreed that we don’t know about
June 24, 2021
The Commission does not make ANY rules in the EU. None. The states (elected politicians in Council) and the voters (MEPs) make EU rules. Honestly, 5 years on, you Leavers STILL donāt understand the first thing about what you have done
Reply The Commission initiates most of the drafts and sets out major policies and programmes.
June 24, 2021
Derby, it is you who do not understand how it works. As John says, the Commission sets out policies and plans and the EU so-called Parliament can only suggest amendments. If it fails to adopt that which the Commission has set out, just as in all other EU referenda etc, it is told to re consider the issue and, ultimately, has no option other than to rubber-stamp that which the Commission wants. Democratic it certainly is not.
June 24, 2021
Spot On
But I don’t blame this Conservative Government I blame all MPs and Peers alike
June 24, 2021
There’s a good article here:
https://www.brexit-watch.org/five-years-on-and-brexit-is-still-not-done
“Five years on and Brexit is still not ādoneā”
Which concludes by calling for repudiation of the Northern Ireland protocol.
June 24, 2021
As the title suggests āa 3 minute readā but still a straightforward summary of post referendum events
What we need is a public review into why the referendum enactment took 5 years
June 24, 2021
Glen
“What we need is a public review into why the referendum enactment took 5 years ”
That’ll never happen, especially if they can’t fix it. Besides if it was open and uncorrupted it would expose a fair amount of treason in Parliament and Government, and the fact that the traitors are still there working covertly for the EU.
June 24, 2021
John, why has the UK given the EU frictionless trade with the UK this year but didn’t get the same deal for the UK in the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement? It seems the UK did all the co-operation and didn’t expect the same offer in return, why? If there is a ban on certain goods, why didn’t we ban the same products inbound? Why did the government extend the deadline from July to December 2021 whilst accepting restrictions from January 2021?
June 24, 2021
It is almost laughable how this Conservative Government spins the concept that the UK has left the EU.
In the beginning there was the phrase from the negotiators on both sides, to para phrase there is no deal until ALL parts are completed.
The EU has secured their trade with the UK but is refusing to accept the UK’s trade with them. They are creating obstacles that even under WTO terms wouldn’t exist.
Given 5 years on the negotiations continue, that these obstacles are still about the UK as an independent Country complying inside UK territory with EU Law and Rules something no other Nation has been required or expected to do. It gives substance that the objectives of the EU is that the UK should be punished and this Conservative Government is frightened of independence. Put the 2 together and you can see them rolling over and BRINO as the objective. In keeping with their own remain desire this Conservative Government wants the UK tied to the isolationist EU so they keeping dancing to Brussels tune before the will of the people.
Politics are the priority not common sense.
June 24, 2021
No doubt some people will enjoy this report from the Irish journalist Tony Connelly:
https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2021/0623/1230839-brexit/
“EU expected to grant UK extension on chilled meats grace period”
So we’re straight in with the EU deciding to “grant” something to an inferior, out of “grace”.
But “subject to conditions”:
“The conditions would be that the UK continues to align with EU food safety rules for the duration of the extension, and that both sides continue to explore a long-term solution to the issue of food consignments leaving Great Britain for Northern Ireland.”
Maybe I’m old-fashioned, but it seems to me that this is not just a crass indefensible betrayal of those UK citizens in Northern Ireland who have been left behind to live under swathes of EU laws but also of the rest of us UK citizens living elsewhere in the UK who are now seeing our country broken up.
A national humiliation, visited upon us courtesy of the so-called “Conservative and Unionist” party.
Not the consequence of Brexit, as Heseltine claims, but of Brexit being sabotaged by people like him.
June 24, 2021
+1
June 24, 2021
The man in the street may prefer something more concrete than our newly won freedoms. Recognizing tangible benefits flowing from the end of EU contributions, resulting in more money for the N.H.S., may be more to people’s tastes.
June 24, 2021
Wokinghamite “Spending increases announced for NHS Englandās budget mean that Ā£20.5 billion more will be spent on it in 2023/24 than in 2018/19. Thatās Ā£394 million more a week by 2023/24.”
Verdict https://fullfact.org/health/nhs-england-394-million-more/
June 25, 2021
Thanks for the reply, a-tracy. Perhaps the government should remind people more that there are good times ahead.
June 24, 2021
Concrete a very apt comment on Wokingham.
June 24, 2021
Actually for many people the house price collapse was a reason to vote leave not a reason not to.
I am desperately disappointed that it didn’t happen. I was hoping we might have affordable housing again.
June 24, 2021
Why are will still bothering with the EU? Why do we need a deal with them?
In my past experience as a businessman, in any negotiation, I and the company always had a fall-back position. A cut-off point where having gone as far as we could, would walk away with no deal. But walk away proud and move on to the next available opportunity not wasting anymore of our time on a dead deal.
Any person or firm who negotiated with us who did not have such a fall-back position was treated as vulnerable and open to more leverage.
That is exactly what Brussels are now doing with this Country. We have continually failed to cut them off, therefore we, in their eyes, are vulnerable and open to anything they throw at us – ad infinitum.
Let’s stop the rot and walk away NOW!
Deal or no deal we British will survive. We always have done and always will do, providing we have strong British leadership in our Government.
So, no more talking about talking and meeting about meetings – do it now. Let’s make Brexit really happen.
June 24, 2021
Derek
“Deal or no deal we British will survive. We always have done and always will do, providing we have strong British leadership in our Government. ”
And there is the problem. We don’t have a ‘British’ government. Johnson the remainer is taking ordrs from the EU.
All is not lost, however. When the time comes that covid no longer works as an excuse…..Johnson and his EU masters lose their control over us and him and his party are finished.
June 25, 2021
Derek. +1
June 24, 2021
Sir John,
Prior to the referendum campaign I was completely unaware of the insidious nature of the EU. This became apparent on the morning the result was announced, to be followed by years of sneering, condescension, insults, threats, and every other ploy to undermine our departure. All willingly enabled and broadcast by the BBC and the rest of the mainstream media. It’s almost as though the EU has become a cult, and for the true believers any other opinion is heresy. Even now five years later, this is evident from the number of bitter, twisted remainer trolls that constantly infest your twitter feed. They obviously have nothing better to do with their lives. The same could be said for those that are obsessed with this site, and engage in endless repetition.
June 25, 2021
MT, +1
June 24, 2021
Some people – especially (but not only) Remoaners – don’t seem to understand that Brexit is not an end destination, it is a means of transport. And whether you like it or not, the crucial point is that WE are now in control of the steering wheel, not our EU enemies. So where we go, and what we do with Brexit, is now up to us. We no longer need to worry, or even give a damn, what other EU countries think. We know that they hate us, so we now need to walk away from them. We can finally throw off the slave mentality and just do whatever suits US best.
I accept however that it will take a while for British politicians to get used to being in control again and start making decisions in the interests of Britain, like politicans in other, sovereogn countries, like the US, Japan, India or Australia do. Unfortunately, Boris Johnson still has the slave mentality. That is why he has given the EU what they want in NI, rather than what WE want, and the same applies to our fishing waters, to membership of the ECHR, and to government procurement. All those things will need fixing. Remoaners protest that the treaties Boris signed are ‘legally binding’, but of course that is nonsense. The House of Commons can vote to do absolutely ANYTHING it wants, including changing or resiling from international treaties. No government can bind its successors – this is a well-known principle.
Brexit allows us to set our own laws and standards, leave the ECHR and stop all the bogus asylum-seekers, offer state aid to promote British industry, use gene editing to improve our agriculture, make new intenational partners and revive our fishing industry. We haven’t done so yet, and will need to get rid of Boris the stupid and cowardly Betrayer to achieve these results, but at least now they are within our own hands. And that is what Brexit was all about.
June 24, 2021
We don’t need to educate our anti-Brexit establishment. We need to get rid of it by cleansing the Augean stables. Let’s take a few examples.
The Northern Ireland Protocol is being implemented by employees of the UK State, many of them no doubt being of Republican opinion. Make sure only Unionists are employed in this role and strip down the Protocol to its bare minimum, namely a single sheet of paper summarising the contents of containers and consignments that might be forwarded to the Republic.
Get rid of the pro-EU majorities in the Supreme Court and the House of Lords, both of which have been used to pervert the course of justice, by implementing a system of indirect elections. Appointments boards should be elected by universal suffrage, say 11 from England, 2 from Scotland, and 1 each from Wales and Northern Ireland. The existing Lords and Supreme Court justices would be forced to stand down and would be replaced by appointees. New appointments boards would be elected every 5 years.
It would also be useful to ensure that Foreign Office and Home Office officials with pro-EU opinions don’t get on.
June 24, 2021
Lindsay
“Get rid of the pro-EU majorities in the Supreme Court and the House of Lords”
Better idea –
Get rid of the Supreme Court, it’s one of Blair’s perversions.
Get rid of the HoL….Blair perverted it and it’s beyond rescue.
June 24, 2021
Re: Vaccines – Sunak said, “We are looking at what role vaccine certification can play in loosening some of the quarantine requirements.”
If younger people who have only had one test need pcr tests x3 to travel why aren’t the government providing these if you will relax rules for double vaccinated people? You claim even double vaccinated people can catch and transmit and that’s why you’ve not fully re-opened. No-one knows what to believe anymore.
June 24, 2021
It was obvious that the Brussels establishment would never give us a decent free trade agreement despite our offering one without strings attached.
Of course, the EU is, before anything else, a protectionist club obsessed with over-regulating everything it can possibly get its hands on, and so it has proved with the NI Protocol and much else.
Boris was effectively backed into a corner with the only choices being full alignment, No Deal or the NI Protocol.
The right choice would have been No Deal but I wonder how many Conservative MPs would have voted for it? Then we have the markets. What would the effect of a No Deal Brexit have been ?
I suspect Boris had littlechoice but to accept the protocol and try and sort it out later. He knows that sooner or later changes in the demographics will see a majority vote for a united island and the problem will go away. At least we are OUT !
Election Promise delivered.
June 24, 2021
Chris S
“I suspect Boris had littlechoice but to accept the protocol and try and sort it out later.”
…..The preferred choice of a coward.
June 24, 2021
On todayās topic, I canāt be the only one noticing an increasing & very noticeable bombardment of negative commentary, language & opinion in the media, much of it, it seems from one or two particular outlets but also elsewhere with the pressure being laid on thick by various ābodiesā and individuals in support and who are obviously on manoeuvres. EU Travel ā The latest German proposal to place restrictions on UK to EU entry & opined and commented upon by a UK politician today, described as being an āattackā on the proposals. It was nothing of the sort. āThousandsā of EU children in care are, reportedly, to suffer the consequences of the Governmentās imminent cut off date for applications for the UKās EU Settlement Scheme. Little meaningful explanation to be found although in one report it’s suggested that illegality, vulnerability, illegally trafficked & modern slavery victims & elderly came into play & are included in those āthousandsā A reported 130.000 EU citizens ( reported only recently ) known to be in receipt of benefits currently, were not yet registered for the scheme apparently & that number is hopefully reducing as many realise what’s needed but Iād like to think that if benefits are being received that the UKG knows exactly where the people live & how they are earning their living and also that they know too where some of the āthousandsā of children & other vulnerable others reside and can take steps to mitigate any problems and maybe local MPs are able to assist or throw light where appropriate. The UKG has already stated that all late applications will be considered and assistance given. Refugees / Asylum Seekers; Maybe there has been some improvement in the last week or so re the arrivals in Dover as the last entries recorded on the BBC website, which is mainly where they are to be found, were Monday & Tuesday 14 & 15 June with 110 & 80 recorded, respectively. Seems odd no further reporting as we have had good weather of late. Reported shortage of workers; no doubt due to a number of āissuesā some we know about, but with, again, reportedly, 5.6 million EU applications with a vast majority having been granted secure status, plus the hundreds of thousands of other non-EU citizens within our borders, hopefully we will hear more positivity at some stage from the UK Government on that score.
June 24, 2021
JR
“It is true that many of these freedoms have not yet been used. ”
…..because of Boris Johnson.
“what to pass into law ”
……..Our laws are EU laws. As you know they were spitefully enshrined into UK law by remainer Theresa may, and allowed to stay enshrined into our law by wet Boris Johnson.
Then again JR I don’t know why you refer to ‘brexit’ , we know it’s BRINO, we know we’ve been had.
June 24, 2021
Remainerism is a personality and character issue, not an ideological issue. You really cannot argue with Remainers, because you are arguing with a personality type, not a political position.
If you look a little deeper, you find that Remainers are about control and regulation, which they ituit will bring – impossibly – certainty and predictability to their lives.
Remainers don’t care about freedom and superior economic performance – they just want a Brussels, or a Berlin, or at one time even Moscow, to make the decisions in their lives, leaving them to boast about all the Gorgonzola they are privileged to eat.
June 25, 2021
Would you like me to characterise Leavers and Leaverism?
June 24, 2021
The fact is that Brexit started to go seriously wrong at the end of 2017.
That is when Theresa May should have said that we would not be seeking any special trade deal with the EU, instead we would simply default to the existing WTO treaties; we would not be making any changes at all on our side of the land border, and we did not accept any responsibility for what was done on the other side; but from neighbourly goodwill we would introduce a system of export licences and do our best to make sure that all goods taken across into the Republic and the EU Single Market conformed to EU requirements.
Instead she gave into threats and then decided to use the largely fabricated problem of the land border as a pretext to give her chums in the CBI most of what they wanted. A large factor in this was the Tories believing their own longstanding lies about the tremendous economic importance of EU membership.
December 2 2017:
https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2017/12/02/the-irish-border/#comment-904608
“There is no point even trying to negotiate with such silly people.”
October 13 2018:
https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/10/13/tax-and-spend-3/#comment-966230
“This is also from November 26 2017 … ā
“Brexit: Remain in customs union and single market to solve border issue, Irelandās European commissioner tells Mayā
āMr Hogan, the EUās agriculture commissioner, said Ireland would āplay tough to the endā over the border issue, and said it was a āvery simple factā that āif the UK or Northern Ireland remained in the EU customs union, or better still the single market, there would be no border issueā.ā
June 24, 2021
Surely SuperMartin and the Boy Wonder have broken their record for postings today. Whatever happened to ‘I will not publish too many, nor too long’?
June 24, 2021
MT
Indeed!
June 24, 2021
Sir JR,
LEt us now look at some of the figures as they are presented by independnt sources, instead of your emotionla but non factual postulations.
1) British exports to teh EU fell by 15%m while EU exports to Britain fell by 32 % aftaer six months finally left the single market (Sussex University)
2) Total EU-UK trade has shrunk by 20% (office for naitonal statistics)
3) Goods trade is 11 % lower on top of teh 10% after the vote (centre for European reform)
4) 75% of SMEs (EY) have experienced disrauption in trade with teh EU
5) Britains export of servics were Ā£ 110 bn ower after referendum for four years after the referendum. (Aston University)
6) Bank assets of Ā£ 900bn or 10% of all bank assets have moved to the EU and 440 fiance firms have moved part of their operations to the EU. (According to New Financial).
So, as the Covid ahs disguised these factors, they do make a ockerey of you saying thaat nothing has happend, yes we are bouncing back faster than the EU, but our growth has also fallen more.
So, sitck with figures and facts no emotional broadcasts, thank you .
June 24, 2021
Sir JR,
Look at the facts and figures not at your guts and feelings about eh EU and the UK.
thank you
June 24, 2021
You have not allowed for the Covid effect bill
You see every statistic via your obsession of Brexit
June 25, 2021
Peter 2
they were only focused on Brexit the research not Covid therefore you are I am afraid wrong.
June 25, 2021
items 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 in your list refers to a time when covid restrictions were in place.
Item 5 is a 4 year period which also include 2020 when Covid hit the financial markets
Item 6 is about financial firms setting up offices in Europe to get round EU deliberately making life difficult.
So out of 6 items you listed only item 6 could be argued to have been due to a negative effect of Brexit.
June 26, 2021
they did the studies only focused on Brexit, but you do not wish to know and therefore do not acknowledge the facts, taht you said I never delivered. You are really sad when the facts are presented. Look them up and do your home work instead of emotional fake news
June 27, 2021
Are you actually trying to argue that the Covid Pandemic which closed down Europe and the UK during the dates of your claims had absolutely no effect on the international trade figures you provided us?
I think your argument is therefore plainly fatally flawed and would be totally rejected if presented to any University.
June 27, 2021
How can they possibly ignore (or extract and deduct) the massive effect of Covid when it impacted trade both international and EU trade dramatically during the same period.
It is just flawed propaganda to try to claim any reductions were only because of. Brexit
In fact it makes your claims useless bill.
June 27, 2021
Peter 2
Do your home work and then we will talk again. First you ask for facts and then you do not investigate them properly. Grow up and start doing your own research before you make conslusions on figures presented.
June 24, 2021
Keep on boycotting the eu goods and farm produce. No more beef from the Republic of Ireland , buy buy from local butchers not the supermarkets
Take the nothing from the eu , fight the good fight. we are hurting them and will win
June 24, 2021
MFD
+1
Fact is EU produce is not selling, niether is produce from RoI. Our local supermarket still stocks it but it ends up getting thrown in the bin. They can’t give it away.
I think the time has come to just cease trading altogether with Europe, build back as a self sufficient nation and ban Irish lorries from our roads.
June 25, 2021
‘They canāt give it away.’
Are you sure? Don’t they offer it to Food Banks first? Perhaps the users turn their noses up at ‘Produce of EU’ stickers?
June 25, 2021
Peter 2
you are really very busy man aren’t you ?
June 26, 2021
You are repeating yourself billy.
June 26, 2021
I am not half as busy with your fake news not acknowledging the facts and figures SHAME
June 27, 2021
Yet you rarely if ever provide and facts and figures yourself bill.
Do you not think you should set us all an example?
June 25, 2021
As JR says, many in government, have not yet grasped the fact that they now have to govern. They have been sitting at the steering wheel for decades twiddling the steering wheel and parp-parping the horn, shouting now and then out of the window, like overgrown six-year-olds playing inside Daddy’s car. Now they actually have to drive it and steer it. Exerting sovereignty is not for the lazy and fearful.
But there is one great and lasting benefit that I sense is now irreversible: for most of my lifetime, British politicians, mandarins and educated professionals have squinted across the Channel and imagined, like a parody of the Edwardian dandy, that there were marvellous, arcane things going on in Paris, Berlin, Amsterdam, Vienna and Rome, and that if only we made an effort, we could be an integral part of them. I think most Britons now finally see through this illusion. We should be grateful to the EU Commission and to the electorates of France, Germany and Benelux, Finland, Cyprus, the RoI and Slovakia, for providing politicians whose polemic boneheadedness has made it an easy and agreeable task for us to turn our backs firmly on the EU. I look forward to seeing the current completely mistaken treaty arrangements dissolved, as they undoubtedly will be, to complete our task of recovering our national independence that Parliament remissly gave away in 1972.
June 25, 2021
Mancunius, +1
June 28, 2021
Peter 2
I just did but you do not do your home work