Government and private sector investment

I’m all for better schools and health facilities. These services paid for out of taxation need a suitable level of capital spend each year to update older buildings, expand inadequate capacity and replace buildings and equipment whose life has ended. There is no market test of this investment as no-one pays to use the services, so judgements need to be made about the scale of maintenance and replacement appropriate to have a decent service. The same judgements are needed for other services like defence and law and order where again there is no consumer market.
In other cases there either is some market test or there should be some market test as customers pay for all or part of the costs of the service, allowing civil servants to forecast returns on capital, and to compare with private sector equivalents. The case of the railways is a good one to examine, as the industry has until recently had a mixture of public and private capital and involvement, and passengers are meant to pay most of the costs of their collective travel. Many Councils run municipal versions of private sector businesses in areas like leisure and sport, so there is a test or standard of comparison to see what return is available and what level of investment makes sense. In these mixed areas it is also important the public sector does not swamp the activity with subsidised capital, driving out private sector provision.

Roads are heavily nationalised and display many of the problems of this form of organisation. Whilst many people like the fact that they do not need to pay tolls on most of the public highway saving some crucial bridges and tunnels, it comes at a high price in Vehicle Excise duty, car tax, VAT and fuel taxes which mean the motorists together pay far more than the cost of the roads. It also means important roads are often partially or wholly closed for long periods for roadworks which would doubtless be done more quickly and at off peak times were the roads earning revenue directly for an owner. It also means the design of such roads may often be vexatious to the users, whose priorities do not always figure high up the list when it comes to specification time.

The UK has spent less on road provision and provided far less high quality major road than competitors like Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium and Italy. The notional exercises to create a rate of return usually underestimate the likely use of a major new road and so understate the notional benefits. In contrast a project like HS2 greatly exaggerates the likely use and revenue potential of this planned new rail line and dismisses the point that fares will be under downwards pressure on competing lines once the new line is running, hitting the viability of other provision. The HS2 investment is disproportionate to the rest of the road and rail programme and will buy precious little useful capacity relative to its cost, and relative to the much better value for money capacity improvements we could achieve with less grand projects on parts of the rail and road networks.
It is time the evaluation of state investment was looked at again, with a view to greater accuracy and greater assistance to decision takers on priority projects. It is bizarre that much needed improvements to the A 303 holiday road to Devon, the A 34 haulroad from the Midlands to Southampton, the south coast missing highway, the poor capacity on the A12 and A14 to the east coast ports, the missing links on the A 1 to Scotland and the lack of capacity on parts of the M5 hold back economic development and increase industrial costs.Everyone will have their own local example of a bad road in need of improvement.

192 Comments

  1. Mark B
    August 1, 2021

    Good morning

    It is the general poor state of our roads that amazes me. A few years ago I happened to pass by Number 10 and, on the way to Trafalgar Square I came across a rather large depression in the road. It was then that I realised that is local and national government cannot even keep the roads in a reasonable state of repairs right at the heart of government then there truly is no hope for us.

    1. lifelogic
      August 1, 2021

      I think the Gov. regard pot holes as free speed humps and another useful deterrent to motorists. They can and do result in deaths of cyclists and motor cyclists. This as pot holes when full of water are often invisible until you hit them and come off.

      Local authorities would rather have higher pay levels than spend money on services or pot hole filling so that is what they do. They do not pick up the costs of duff roads the public does so what do they care?

      1. NickC
        August 1, 2021

        Lifelogic, It’s all part of the normal outcome of state monopolies. Firstly they’re all about safe jobs and empire building because the customers don’t really matter (they have no choice).

        Then, a state monopoly “proves” how valuable it is by failing. The NHS is an example of this – it gets “overwhelmed” from time to time thereby “demonstrating” what a “difficult” job it must be doing.

        1. lifelogic
          August 1, 2021

          +1

    2. MiC
      August 1, 2021

      It is not in the commercial interests of the contractors to do developments and repairs which last – and they don’t.

      Have you ever watched what the ‘pothole fillers’ do?

      They don’t remove the loose material in and around the hole.

      They don’t apply any liquid bonding prior to filling with tarmac.

      They often just use the truck tyre to roll it, not a compacting tool.

      That is what happens here anyway, and they’re back within weeks.

      That’s forced outsourcing for you though.

      A friend used to work for a major motorway contractor. He said that the guys used to put the bags of cement into the concrete mixer unopened, varnished paper sack and all.

      1. Peter2
        August 1, 2021

        It is up to the Council who draw up the contracts to set defined standards for the work to be done and then audit the work completed before signing it off so the company can be paid.
        The work you describe seems of a poor standard for why did your local authority accept it and pay for it.
        In short it is about poor management of their suppliers by your Council.

        1. MiC
          August 1, 2021

          To prevent this Councils would have to employ about as many inspectors as there are people fixing potholes.

          This is the fatal flaw with the for-profit sector in many areas.

          1. No Longer Anonymous
            August 1, 2021

            That’s better than the tree planting around here. One year they had the hole diggers and the hole fillers but not the tree deliveries.

            So we had hole diggers digging holes and hole fillers filling them back in but with no trees !!!

            Lib Dem council at the time.

          2. Peter2
            August 1, 2021

            Rubbish they have plenty of staff to do this simple job.
            They don’t need any more people.
            Choose good suppliers
            Write a good contract.
            Check the contractor has done the job you have specified.
            Check it sign ot off and then pass it for payment.
            It is all very basic business stuff.

        2. steve
          August 1, 2021

          Peter 2

          “It is up to the Council who draw up the contracts to set defined standards for the work to be done and then audit the work completed before signing it off so the company can be paid.”

          Doesn’t happen like that anymore, Peter.

          The office of Clerk Of The Works was scrapped years ago. Now they just hand over tax payer’s money regardless.

          1. Peter2
            August 1, 2021

            Well then it’s time they changed the way they do things Steve.

        3. Bill B.
          August 1, 2021

          Why, Peter2?

          Let’s try and imagine. Think of a brown envelope passing under a table, then think of what might have been inside it.

          Yes, ‘poor management’, just as you say!

        4. acorn
          August 1, 2021

          How naĂŻve you are Peter2; it goes like this currently in the South. Mr Contractor, how many potholes can you fill for ÂŁ44 each? For the big ones, can you do them for ÂŁ66 per square meter of Tarmac?

          1. Peter2
            August 1, 2021

            Ridiculous comment acorn.
            The Council is failing to repair most potholes and the ones they do repair don’t last.
            Therefore they need to get their contractors to do a job that works.
            It’s cheaper in the long run.
            It just requires a bit of proper management by the Local Authorities.

          2. MiC
            August 2, 2021

            Oversight costs money, Pete.

            Councils have none.

            Ask Tory Northampton.

          3. Peter2
            August 2, 2021

            They already have staff to do oversight MiC
            The real problem lies with setting the quality specifications in the original contract and choosing good suppliers.
            Councils seem to find these elements of basic management difficult.

      2. SM
        August 1, 2021

        And a Councillor friend of mine explained that most suburban roads were built to cater for FAR lower volumes of traffic, so the much greater use of cars, buses, vans and lorries damages the foundations. Pothole filling is a temporary fix, but the alternative of reconstruction is beyond councils’ resources.

      3. NickC
        August 1, 2021

        Are you suggesting collusion by contractors, Martin? If you are, have you evidence? Because if not collusion, then some contractors repairs would be better/cheaper than others. And that surely would become obvious to the councils employing them. Wouldn’t it? If you don’t have the evidence, you’re just repeating the typical hard left political mantra: state good – private bad.

      4. Lifelogic
        August 1, 2021

        Well that is the fault of the local authority buyer and the specification of repair they contract for and should ensure they receive.

        1. Peter2
          August 1, 2021

          Absolutely correct LL

  2. Sea_Warrior
    August 1, 2021

    Great post, Sir John. There is a simple heuristic, however: any idea coming from the back of a No 10 fag-packet will be a collossal waste of money. The practise of Johnson blind-siding the Chancellor (and other secretaries of state) must end. And back-benchers calling themselves Conservatives must demand that it does.

    1. steve
      August 1, 2021

      Sea Warrior

      “And back-benchers calling themselves Conservatives must demand that it does.”

      Better still they should be removed from office, publicly humiliated, and have money taken off them for each and every day they took pay while sitting on their backsides doing nothing to protect our way of life and our freedoms.

      They’re supposed to be our guard against rogue foreign – serving quisling Prime Ministers. They’re pathetic.

      1. Sea_Warrior
        August 1, 2021

        Your post brought a smile to my face and reminded me once again how kind our host is to let us play on his blog-site!

    2. MiC
      August 1, 2021

      Here are two simple stats which might inform any fag packet calculation:

      Foot and mouth cleanup in the Netherlands, direct labour – ÂŁ600 per farm.

      Foot and mouth cleanup in the UK, outsourced to private contractors – ÂŁ100,000 per farm.

      1. Michael McGrath
        August 1, 2021

        MIC

        That would be the outsourcing carried out by Mr Bliar’s labour government?

      2. Peter2
        August 1, 2021

        Number of cattle in the UK nearly 11 million
        Number of cattle in the Netherlands 1.5 million

        1. Peter2
          August 1, 2021

          UK number of animals slaughtered 6 million
          Netherlands number of animals slaughtered 260,000.

          1. MiC
            August 1, 2021

            OK, since you clearly enjoy research, can you find the average size in hectares of a NL cattle farm as compared with a UK one?

            That would actually be some help.

          2. Peter2
            August 1, 2021

            I’ve given you two stats which demolish your original claim.
            I think that is enough.
            Plenty more on the Internet.

          3. MiC
            August 1, 2021

            No, you didn’t at all.

            The cost per farm in the UK was 167 times that in the NL.

            You merely stated that there were about eight times more cattle in the UK than in the NL and that about24 times more had been slaughtered here than there.

            You posted nothing about the relative size of the farms nor the average number of cattle on each .

          4. Micky Taking
            August 2, 2021

            This is all to do with the transport of animals for sale and slaughter.
            In UK animals are/were taken great distances, some clearly infected.
            F&M spread significantly as a result. In order to halt this disease those in their wisdom decided on measures which crippled farmers families economically and emotionally, leading to breakdowns and yes, suicides.

          5. Peter2
            August 2, 2021

            Cost per farm is irrelevant statistic.
            Look at the numbers of animals in each country affected then look at the numbers of animals that had to be slaughtered.
            Then look into the relative complexities of islotating each farm.
            Then look into the relative costs of disposal of the animals in a more densely populated UK
            There are articles on the internet giving details of why costs were what they were.
            You pick on one alternative nation to desperately try to play your private bad state good card.
            Cut and pasting a Guardian propaganda headline isn’t going to work.

      3. Lifelogic
        August 1, 2021

        Once again a failure of government to get value for money, they were the buyers and in control of what they paid, contracted for and what was delivered.

        1. MiC
          August 1, 2021

          Depends on the market rate, doesn’t it?

          If people have a near monopoly then it is what it is.

          1. Peter2
            August 1, 2021

            The Government are the monopoly in your scenario MiC
            There ate lots of potential contractors and suppliers.

    3. ukretired123
      August 1, 2021

      ÂŁ37 million sorry ÂŁ37 Billion wasted on Track & Trace !
      Appalling waste Sir John – Boris needs replacing by someone like Truss who understands the real world.

      1. bigneil - newer comp
        August 1, 2021

        123 – – Whoever’s pockets that ÂŁ37bn has gone into certainly doesn’t think it was a waste

        1. Lifelogic
          August 1, 2021

          +1 quite some feat to spend that huge sum of money legally, so quickly and for virtually nothing of value at all in return. Much of it seems to do far more harm than good.

          Assuming it was genuine & legal that is.

        2. Jim Whitehead
          August 1, 2021

          Another astute Bigneil comment

      2. Alan Jutson
        August 1, 2021

        UK 123

        The system appears to work, but the application and management of it does not.
        Likewise the policy of self isolation even if you test negative each day seems rather daft.

        I will not comment much on the cost, but it does seem a tad high and rather excessive, given what other things you can do with ÂŁ37 billion, just imagine for example how many overpriced small EV cars that would buy.
        Or a few more aircraft carriers, some aeroplanes (not very green) or some more warships to defend what we already have.
        The list is almost endless and could indeed provide perhaps free social care for a few years, or indeed to please Andy free university places for all the young who choose to study a sensible and useful subject.

  3. Everhopeful
    August 1, 2021

    Yes
as far as I am aware only motorists pay for the road? Or at least they are the only ones from whom a specific payment is extorted. Except maybe people who live on unadopted roads?
    Anyway, soon car drivers will still be obliged to pay but will have to give way to all other road users in what looks like very dangerous ways. ( Bikes must ride in the middle of the road in some circumstances).
    Over the past ten years or so I have noticed how bike riders and pedestrians just launch themselves in front of cars
and when this new legislation is bleated through
any mishap will always be the car’s fault.
    Certain I read some time ago of this sort of thing being done in Holland. An EU directive?

    1. lifelogic
      August 1, 2021

      It will surely cause thousands more fraudulent accident claims and fake accident from cyclists a boon for more essentially parasitic lawyers. It is hugely dangerous when cyclists appear from nowhere and from pavements cross zebra crossing at say 20 miles per hour – hoping the car drivers are alert and will do emergency stops for them.

      1. J Bush
        August 1, 2021

        Aye, but perhaps from Johnson’s net zero perspective, he will get the motorists off the roads one way or another…

        1. steve
          August 1, 2021

          J Bush

          Well Johnson will have to do it before the next general election, because he’s out on his backside then.

      2. Everhopeful
        August 1, 2021

        +1

    2. Dave Andrews
      August 1, 2021

      As I understand it, it’s the local council that pays for the upkeep of local roads, from their income. It doesn’t come from vehicle excise duty or fuel duty (except indirectly from the government grant). National government pays for the motorways and trunk roads, in which case it may be supposed that the motorist pays.
      The amount paid on roads is well below what is collected, so vehicle excise duty and fuel duty are just taxes on the motorist soft target.
      Many local roads existed well before the age of the motor car, so it’s definitely true that car tax hasn’t paid for them.

      1. a-tracy
        August 1, 2021

        How much does the local council receive from central government towards roads, anything?

    3. No Longer Anonymous
      August 1, 2021

      +1

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        August 1, 2021

        Cycling for fitness is lunacy. Totally inefficient and puts the rider at more risk of injury and ill health than benefit.

    4. Mark
      August 1, 2021

      The rules are completely lacking in thought, having been written by some townie cyclist. There are country lanes near me where cyclists whizz around in their Lycra. For now, they do have some caution. But allow them the right to ride round blind corners on a “quiet” road at 30mph in the middle of the road is a sure recipe for disasters. I suppose they might spot a combine harvester coming down the lane a bit sooner. Is it supposed to make way for them? or shouldn’t they pull off into a field entrance? Especially with near silent EVs coming in the other direction. Some of the main roads have long been attractive to motorcyclists, who enjoy pulling some G going round the bends. They need no further encouragement to treat the roads as a racetrack while claiming cars and trucks should get out of their way.

      Meanwhile half a dozen XR supporters strategically dispatched to block key junctions in your town will create gridlock and the police will be powerless to move them.

      I don’t mind if cycling is given consideration in traffic related planning. But to make it the only legally required consideration is utterly ridiculous. We should not have planning dictated by the cycling lobby. There are many other road users and residents and businesses whose interests should be considered.

      1. NickC
        August 1, 2021

        Mark, Government is there to make the life of ordinary people harder. That’s what they do. And they’re paid to do it.

        Look at the Northern Ireland Protocol as an example. It’s so bad that Boris Johnson will go down in history as the PM who lost Northern Ireland.

        1. MiC
          August 2, 2021

          Well someone had to come up with some kind of solution to the problems caused by your brexit.

          Yes, it’s rubbish, but so were all the rest.

          Own it, there’s a good chap, eh?

          1. NickC
            August 6, 2021

            The problem is the EU, Martin, not Leave. If we had fully left the EU – as was described by both Leave and Remain campaigns prior to the vote – the EU would not be able to make trouble. Everything involving the EU is rubbish. Own it, there’s a good chap, eh?

      2. Dave Andrews
        August 1, 2021

        The rules are definitely not thought up by cyclists.

        1. Micky Taking
          August 2, 2021

          I have looked for ‘These rules do not apply to cyclists’ in the Highway Code, but cannot find the words.
          Please help and advise where to look. Thank you.

      3. Lifelogic
        August 1, 2021

        +1

      4. hefner
        August 1, 2021

        Maybe we should put things into perspective: the three biggest cycling associations, Cycling UK 68,431 members (2019), British Cycling between 125k and 150k members, Wheels for Wellbeing, some 20k members, make a grand total of about 200k-250k members. In 2019, just the AA had 14 million members.
        So are you serious when saying ‘planning is dictated by the cycling lobby’? Do you really think that Brompton, Raleigh or Schwinn have more lobbying power than the UK car manufacturers? Could it be that some people in Government had decided to improve life for cyclists, to provide as our PM said a ‘golden age of cycling’. What must be noticed is that the 2018 State of Cycling report pointed out that 9 out of 10 cyclists are ‘close passed’ at least once a week. It happened to me only yesterday morning on a parking near a supermarket. I shouted at the elderly driver who looked surprised by the noise I had ‘produced’ as if he had not noticed me.
        Those drivers over 75 should have the eyes tested at least once a year instead of every three years when renewing the licence (and possibly their license cancelled if the tests are not at least 6/12).

        1. Mark
          August 1, 2021

          It was announced that it would be a legal requirement for road plans to be drawn up by a cyclist.

      5. hefner
        August 2, 2021

        M, The fastest ever (till now) Tour de France was done at 41.7km/h (26 mph) in 2005 by Lance Armstrong (cyclingweekly.com 28/08/2020 How fast are riders at the Tour?) Next one was Chris Froome in 2017 (41km/h, 25.6 mph). I give you that in the Alps and Pyrenees, they go downhill at close to 100km/h. But where is your British Iseran or Tourmalet?
        You must have very sporty neighbours or they must be imbibing even more interesting stuff than Lance was 😉

    5. steve
      August 1, 2021

      Everhopeful

      “Certain I read some time ago of this sort of thing being done in Holland. An EU directive? ”

      Yes it was. Basically in any contact between bicycle and car, it was the car driver’s fault, regardless of circumstance.

      1. MiC
        August 2, 2021

        Traffic rules are sovereign matters for member countries, Steve.

        In Italy it is generally the driver’s fault if he knocks down a child in a residential area – end of.

        For every child killed in that way there seven are killed here.

        1. Peter2
          August 2, 2021

          That’s an odd statistic MiC
          Are you sure?
          618 pedestrians killed in Italy versus 450 in the UK

  4. Everhopeful
    August 1, 2021

    Let’s just face the fact that however much money the government claws away from taxpayers, nothing EVER gets better. Never!
    We are in a constant state of turmoil because, for some reason, change is viewed as a very good thing.
    It isn’t!

    I read that the Great Gas Boiler Reset is now put back by 10 years.
    Hehe!
    “Gang aft a-gley” ( Burns) and, please God, may many enemy plans go a similar way.

  5. Ian Wragg
    August 1, 2021

    So you agree HS2 is a vanity project which should be scrapped before any more billions are wasted.
    I bet it isn’t though. A Boris statement of waste.

  6. Oldtimer
    August 1, 2021

    IIRC HS2 has been a Conservative vanity project from the days when it was still in opposition. The party and its leaders appear irretrievably committed to this collosal waste of money. If it and they are incapable of reacting and adjusting to this obvious financial disaster as it unfolds before our eyes, why should it and they be trusted to get anything else right? Of course HS2 is just chicken feed when set against the ÂŁtrillion plus required to fund the ultimate vanity project labelled “net zero”.

    1. lifelogic
      August 1, 2021

      Indeed and Covid gave them the perfect excuse to cancel the basket case HS2 but still they did not. Must surely be vested interests or pure corruption surely? What else could be driving it. Net zero is insanity in climate & environmental terms, economic terms and even political terms so what on earth is driving this bonkers religion? Theatre studies graduate Carrie and history graduate Lord Debden (Gummer) perhaps? Doubtless Debden records all his vested interests but is this really sufficient?

      1. steve
        August 1, 2021

        LL

        “Must surely be vested interests or pure corruption surely? [HS2] ”

        Yes, it is. Follow the money.

        1. MFD
          August 1, 2021

          +1

      2. graham1946
        August 1, 2021

        Probably a cancellation clause that means it will cost the same even if it is not built. The contractors will not go without their money.

        1. Mark
          August 1, 2021

          Wind farms etc. enjoy a protection against new taxes.

        2. Original Richard
          August 1, 2021

          graham1946 : “Probably a cancellation clause that means it will cost the same even if it is not built. The contractors will not go without their money.”

          Even then it would be still worth cancelling to avoid the environmental damage during building and the exhorbitant costs of maintaining a noisy, high speed, fuel hungry out-of-date technology.

    2. Everhopeful
      August 1, 2021

      If I am permitted a link ( my explanation would be a bit wonky I am sure)

      https://www.transport-network.co.uk/HS2s-contribution-to-net-zero-isup-in-the-air/16484
      THAT is how the govt is spinning HS2.
      If I’ve understood the article that is 
they seem to be claiming HS2 as a carbon zero victory. Or something like that

      1. lifelogic
        August 1, 2021

        There is certainly no case at all in CO2 or environmental terms for HS2 nor in economic terms.

  7. Andy
    August 1, 2021

    There are two common themes in the lack of development of roads in this country.

    1) We mostly have Conservative governments who invest in tax breaks for billionaires and not in roads for us plebes.

    2) We are a country full nimbys who want development – providing it goes somewhere else.

    There are new proposals to build hundreds of new homes near where I live. We need new homes for young families. Yet there is a huge local campaign against building these homes – despite the fact that new homes must go somewhere else. Unfortunately every community says the same thing – not here – so the homes end up going nowhere.

    The local campaign group against the new homes posted some pictures online of its community meetings. It was like an Age U.K. convention. The average age of the attendees must have been 75. Old people – presumably pretty much all home owners themselves – demanding no homes for young people.

    There is your problem.

    We must work out how many new homes we need and then each community must be required to build a proportionate share based on its current size. Those that fail lose all state funding. Time to play hardball with the nimbys.

    1. steve
      August 1, 2021

      Andy

      Good points !

      However I agree with your first point but it is not limited to conservative governments.

      Your second point – We don’t need development. The problem is too many people in the country and actually too many properties left empty while people live on the streets, which is totally unacceptable.

      1. MiC
        August 1, 2021

        The Tories have reduced to almost nothing the power of Councils to issue Empty Dwelling Management Orders – EDMOs – introduced by Labour, and which were previously effective in preventing homes from being left empty.

        They wouldn’t have attacked them if they weren’t effective, would they?

        1. Peter2
          August 1, 2021

          Yet again in your desperation to have a go at “the tories” you come up with a poor argument MiC
          As you say the legislation was brought in by Labour but Local Authorities called it well meaning legislation but very complex.
          Introduced as part of the 2004 Housing Act only 43 EDMOs were made up to 2010.
          In all since 2006 just 229 EDMOs were made.
          You said they were “previously effective”
          They have never been effective right from the start.
          Labour’s badly written law needs scrapping.

          1. MiC
            August 1, 2021

            The threat of EDMOs caused people not to leave property empty.

            Solicitors advising property owners were only diligent if they warned them of their possible exposure to them.

          2. Peter2
            August 1, 2021

            So first you claim EDMOs were previously effective.
            When it is shown they never were effective you shift to saying empty properties reduced due to the threat of EDMOs
            Hilarious as usual Marty

    2. SM
      August 1, 2021

      I remember what happened during two or three major developments on the outskirts of the town I lived in a few years ago, and in the London Boroughs years before that, so maybe those old people whom you so despise, Andy, were experienced enough to recognise that there had been no prior plans to instigate or improve educational and medical services, public transport and water supply for the newcomers.

      These are issues that only seem to be dealt with in a haphazard fashion, if at all, later on, and it is something that has been ignored by both Conservative and Labour governments and councils.

    3. Mike Wilson
      August 1, 2021

      then each community must be required to build a proportionate share based on its current size.

      Difficult to imagine anything more moronic. What about infrastructure and jobs?

      And, of course, what is actually driving the constant, insatiable demand for more housing is the constant increase in our population- as a result of both legal and illegal immigration. After all, an extra 10 million people over the last 20 years have to live somewhere.

      Just imagine the empty houses of the did, actually, go home.

      1. Mark
        August 1, 2021

        A lot of housing demand is being driven by people seeking to flee the dystopia of big cities. Lockdowns brought home how unpleasant city life can be.

    4. MFD
      August 1, 2021

      Your elders know better than you! Boot out the non productive migrants and we will have plenty of housing and money left from social welfare to help the running of our country!

      1. MiC
        August 1, 2021

        Our fellow Europeans here are generally more productive than UK people, and are subsidising them quite heavily by their taxes.

        They are normally young, fit, and arrive with whatever skills or qualifications they need to work, so there are no training or education costs. They are far less of a burden on the NHS than your average retired Tory-Leave voter too.

        1. Mark
          August 1, 2021

          Most of them contribute little by way of tax because they are on low wages. There are, it is true, a much smaller number of high earners who do contribute large amounts in tax. But whether high earners or low waged, most also choose to remit a significant chunk of their earnings to their home countries, taking money out of the economy rather than spending it here to the general benefit of our economy.

          I presume the MiC plan is that as these people age they will be repatriated so as not to be a burden on the NHS and pensions?

        2. Peter2
          August 1, 2021

          MiC
          If you look at GDP per capita there has only been a modest rise from ÂŁ28,700 per head in 2003 to ÂŁ29,147 per head in 2020
          You would have thought that the many millions of extra people working here in the UK, that you glowingly describe, might have had a much more dramatic effect on these figures.

          1. hefner
            August 6, 2021

            P2, so if I accept your figures, that’s a 1.6% increase over 17 years, including seven of Labour-, five of Coalition-, and five of Conservative Governments. Is that the effect of the extra people and/or the uselessness of the successive governments?

        3. NickC
          August 1, 2021

          Oddly enough, Martin, the EU immigrants arrive here to ready built infrastructure. They contributed nothing to that.

          1. MiC
            August 2, 2021

            So what did you contribute to the Victorian sewer network of most large cities, to our historic schools and universities, to the Ladybower Dam and the rest, or to the main frame of the National Grid, then?

          2. Peter2
            August 2, 2021

            What a bizarre comment MiC
            The generational cumulative improvement of output fine nation has been saddled to by generations of people who worked hard, paid taxes and created these assets and infrastructure.

        4. steve
          August 1, 2021

          MiC

          “Our fellow Europeans here are generally more productive than UK people, and are subsidising them quite heavily by their taxes.”

          “They are normally young, fit, and arrive with whatever skills or qualifications they need to work, so there are no training or education costs”

          Complete and utter tosh. They are no more productive than Brits, it’s just that they have no conception of worrker’s rights and will do the work for less money, which employers love.

          Many don’t actually have skills and if you worked in industry, which you clearly don’t, you’d know that quite a lot of them are actually ex-cons. Employers get around this by de-skilling craft roles, which will ultimately bite industry very hard as it has done in other countries.

          I hink you should have spent your life in industry and at shop floor level before making such ill-informed comments on a subject you clearly know nothing about.

        5. SM
          August 1, 2021

          Are you saying that European residents in the UK will never get pregnant or ill, that their children will never require education or medical services, and most of all – since you appear to be going ‘all-out-Andy’: they will never age?

          Fascinating.

        6. Hat man
          August 1, 2021

          MiC, what you’ve missed is that, according to the ONS, in recent years there has been a massive rise in non-EU immigration, running at some of the highest levels on record. A third of a million net non-EU migration into the UK in the year to March 2020, with South Asia the biggest contributor of migrants. Compared with EU migrants, non-EU migrants have a lower employment rate, and don’t ‘subsidise us with their taxes’ so much. And we probably remember the scandal over Boohoo and other businesses employing especially non-EU origin workers in Leicester. Andrew Bridgen MP has estimated that fraud and tax evasion is costing the UK Government ÂŁ10 million a week in Leicester alone.

        7. MWB
          August 1, 2021

          The Tory -Leave voter would have contributed during the working years, and would probably not have been much of a burden on the NHS.
          The boat people coming over every day are an instant burden, and are unlikely ever to work or contribute.
          Are you Remainers all a bit dim ?

    5. Dave Andrews
      August 1, 2021

      Before more English meadow is churned up to build houses, I would like to see if there are other ways to make housing more available and affordable for young people. For a start, bring in legislation that requires residential property to be only owned by UK natural persons, not shady corporations. If that doesn’t solve the problem, put a cap on the value of property any individual is allowed to own. I’d say about ÂŁ1m so it remains a legitimate retirement investment, and there are always people whose lifestyle suits them to rent rather than buy.

      1. MiC
        August 1, 2021

        Yes, property law in e.g. Denmark disallows non-nationals from title, I seem to recall.

        The Tories encourage anything which keeps the bubble inflated however.

        1. NickC
          August 1, 2021

          But wouldn’t you scream “xenophobe” if that were done here, Martin?

          1. MiC
            August 1, 2021

            Absolutely not.

          2. Peter2
            August 1, 2021

            Not very fair is though MiC
            Denying anyone other than a Dane from buying a property in Denmark.
            What a reduction in freedom it would be if enacted more widely.
            Yet strangely you are very relaxed about it.

          3. MiC
            August 2, 2021

            Speak to Nick, Peter, and see if you on the Right can make up your minds eh?

          4. Peter2
            August 2, 2021

            Maybe you might make your mind up first MiC.
            You criticise many on here when you shout the word “absolutist”
            Yet you display your absolutist views in nearly every post.

    6. Timaction
      August 1, 2021

      ……there is your problem. No. It’s the mass immigration policy of the legacies over the last 23 years allowing over 9 million in to create this problem, health, education and lack of other adequate public services. Every Doctor appointment is weeks away or many hurdles to cross. ÂŁ1 billion a year to service illegal immigrants. Despite strong words let’s hear how many are deported each month to exceed those coming in. Silence.

    7. No Longer Anonymous
      August 1, 2021

      Such developments have happened here, Andy and your NIMBYs are right to fear them.

      They do not go to locals and the tens of thousands of homes have not been met by increases in services or road space.

      Crime has increased. Particularly assaults on police, which had never been heard of before.

    8. a-tracy
      August 1, 2021

      Andy, 3/10/2019 see gov uk ‘Today’s data release points to positive news ahead of publication of comprehensive housing delivery statistics in November. Last year 220,000 new homes were delivered by the English housing market – the highest in all but one of the last 31 years.’ Read more there for actual facts of new homes being built.

      There has been an explosion in retirement homes where people are downsizing you have family that has done this as have I so you know that is happening when suitable property is available. More council/ha retirement apartments need to be built for people to move out of multi-bedroom properties they no longer need.

      The Housing Associations need to keep their promises, they could extend some houses to put on an extra two bedrooms at low cost, they could spend the money they promised 20 years ago and build the new properties to replace the ones they sold. They could convert deserted shop complexes and office developments.

      I am more interested in the share of social needs housing, no township should have more than 15-20% maximum and those that don’t have this % need levelling up.

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        August 1, 2021

        Help to Move for over ’80s (which would reduce the prices of family sized homes ) not Help to Buy (which increases the prices of rabbit hutches.)

        I know of very many widows living in large houses because they left it too late to move.

    9. NickC
      August 1, 2021

      Andy, We would not need all these new developments if we did not have such a massive tide of immigrants swamping our fields, our roads, our homes, and our infrastructure.

      There’s probably at least 15m people here who not born in the UK (officially admitted 9.2m – an obvious underestimate). They should go back home. Nigeria for the Nigerians, Pakistan for the Pakistanis, and England for the English. That’s what self-determination is. And it is a UN mandated human right. You support the first two examples, but apparently not the third. Which is irrational.

      You blame the old (as ever) – predominantly English – for wanting to live in their family homes. Having worked for it all their lives, maybe they prefer to stay. And what right have you to force them out? You have no equitable or rational reason for such arbitrary dictatorial behaviour.

      You do the same with your shrill demands that people must be forced to buy only battery cars if they want a car, and heat pumps if they don’t want to freeze in winter. You seem to think your diktats should overwhelm other peoples choices solely because you’re Andy. What are you proposing to do when people disobey you? Prison camps? Or just turn them out onto the streets?

    10. Original Richard
      August 1, 2021

      Andy : “We must work out how many new homes we need and then each community must be required to build a proportionate share based on its current size.”

      No, we must instead stop the current massive levels of immigration to protect our environment as well as our institutions, social cohesion and economy.

      It is not possible to “work out how many new homes we need” with open borders and consequently not knowing the size of the population.

      And it’s not just homes that need to be built but schools, hospitals, roads, shops, water treatment plants, electrical generation and distribution etc etc.

      It’s not zero carbon we need by 2050 it’s zero immigration until 2050.

    11. Micky Taking
      August 2, 2021

      What you write is basically correct – however the number of homes forecast required are spread around, and are indeed being built. Do you never leave the leafy lanes where you live. Possibly polishing that Tesla and not driving it?

  8. lifelogic
    August 1, 2021

    I too am for “better schools and health facilities” aren’t we all? So get them away from the dead hand of the state virtual monopoly. It is essentially communist control let us get some fair competition and real innovation (do the same for the BBC left wing, climate alarmist, propaganda outfit too).

    If you tax and then provide (ration usually) these services “free” you kill nearly all fair competition by forcing people (who wish to go privately) to pay three or four times over for education or healthcare. You kill nearly all innovation and take nearly all power away from consumers to demand value. Thus destroying incentives to improve. Freedom, real choice and fair competition please. Education vouchers that can be topped up, tax breaks and the likes. Power to the users of these services and away from the dead hand of the failing state.

    The state cares not what is pays nor what value it gets, not even if the value it gets is hugely negative and actually harmful (as with Net Zero). We see this time and time again HS2, Shit Hill at Marble Arch, the NHS, state schools, worthless university degrees (most are), Net Zero, Hinkley C, Boris’s bike lane road blocking and congestion agenda, the expensive energy agenda, wind, EVs, solar, the over restrictive planning system, the absurdly complex tax system & employment laws
 We all have a very poor, expensive, slow, arbitrary and effectively corrupteded legal system that serves lawyers and the legal industry rather than the public interest.

    We know communism & top down, “State knows best” never works yet we run health care, education, the BBC in this idiotic way. Far better ways exist (not the US system). Why do the competition authorities never address unfair competition from the state sector when this is the main source of unfair competition?

    1. Mike Wilson
      August 1, 2021

      If the government didn’t run education and health, what would they do? You’d cut the size of government in half.

      It’s funny but, no matter how many services are outsourced, the number directly employed by the state never goes down.

      1. lifelogic
        August 1, 2021

        A half sized state is certainly needed as a minimum.

      2. NickC
        August 1, 2021

        Mike W said: “It’s funny but, no matter how many services are outsourced, the number directly employed by the state never goes down.”

        Perceptive! It seems to me that vast numbers of people in this country, whether working for the state (administration, doling out welfare, collecting taxes, etc), or for the private sector (fund management, insurance in all its forms, etc), are employed just shuffling other people’s money around. Usually to comply with complex and unnecessary laws. No wonder we have such low productivity. Of course some insurance (health, unemployment, pensions, etc) is necessary, but surely not so much! And certainly we need simpler (and less) government.

    2. Jim Whitehead
      August 1, 2021

      LL, +1, and I’ve only read your first paragraph. You are absolutely right. There is a dead hand over health and education provision inhibiting invention, innovation, and imagination.
      One only has to think of the tremendous change to communication following the opening out of telephone services and supply and the Communist choking of ports and transport in the days when Jack Jones, that great patriot, held sway.
      I’ll now return to read the rest of your comments, knowing that, once again, I won’t be dismayed.

      1. Jim Whitehead
        August 1, 2021

        LL, having read the rest of your submission I was even more enthused.
        Continuation of the BBC as a subversive subsidised preacher of woke is an allowance of utter foolishness and perversity.

        1. lifelogic
          August 1, 2021

          +1

    3. lifelogic
      August 1, 2021

      Jeremy Hunt, former health secretary and current chairman of the health and social care select committee said last night: “One of the biggest tragedies last year was the discharging of untested patients into care homes.”

      Buy would anyone remotely sane ever have though this a good plan or authorised this? Sending them almost anywhere would have been more sensible than to where are the old and vulnerable people were. Or was this a Gov. plan to dump the problem on care homes and save on long term care and pension costs?

      Daniel Hannan today in the Telegraph:- We know that the NHS had a woeful crisis. But we’re choosing to keep it just as it is.

  9. turboterrier
    August 1, 2021

    Wouldn’t worry too much about the roads. The way kipper and his fillets are going 80% of us won’t be able to afford the car let alone the charging points.
    It’s is the perception of a lot of the population that they want travel as we know it scrapped. It will only be for the very wealthy. The whole project Net Zero is about total control of the masses.

    1. steve
      August 1, 2021

      Turboterrier

      Get yourself into Mixed Martial Arts at the local Gym as a means to keep fit, and take up Archery – to train eyesight and concentration. Both of which are olympic sports and thus not illegal.

      Bide your time, mate 😉

      1. Mike Wilson
        August 1, 2021

        95 year old martial arms expert, with a bow and arrows, leads resistance. An assistant carries his quiver for him.

        1. steve
          August 1, 2021

          Mike Wilson

          Scoffers, my favourite people.

          1. Mike Wilson
            August 2, 2021

            Oh dear, you’ve been in for a sense of humour bypass.

        2. turboterrier
          August 1, 2021

          Mike Wilson

          Thanks Mike, it’s only sometimes I feel that old.

          1. Mike Wilson
            August 2, 2021

            I feel that old every time I sit on a sofa and watch the box for a couple of hours. When I stand up to head to the kitchen for a cup of tea, I sometimes see a reflection in the patio doors. Some old bloke, creaky and stiff is shuffling along. If I keep moving, I don’t seize up. Thank heaven for the endless list of jobs my wife finds for me to keep me supple.

  10. steve
    August 1, 2021

    JR

    Despite our occasional ideological differences Mr Redwood, you never fail to write excellently on interesting topics. This one is no exception and has certainly caught my attention.

    I respond thus –

    Schools.
    I don’t see justification in spending tax payer’s money on them while they’re turning out left wing brainwashed snowflakes. However, I take opportunity to mention that in my experience the ‘students’ of private Schools always seem very polite, respectful, bright….and above all make sure to never bring their uniform to disrepute.

    NHS
    I’ve no time for ’em. Sorry. Suffice to say -administration bloated pension club, politically infiltrated, woke, incompetent left wing organisation which like supermarkets these days sees customer complaints as abuse. (the latest stunt by all public-facing organisations)
    Like the BBC, the NHS needs dismantling and rebuilding.

    Roads
    You say motorists end up paying more tax than is spent on roadworks. That is indeed true and has been known for decades. However I don’t believe privatisation is the answer. Being a petrol head and an Englishman with a small collection of classic motorcycles and usuallly a couple of Jaguars at any given time, I will not have my right to navigate the Queen’s carriageway sold off to highway robbers – you get my drift. The fuel & road tax robbery is bad enough.
    Roadworks frequently take place when and where they are not actually needed. The reason for that is Town Hall corruption, and, occasionally local authorities doing it in desperate attempt to control trafic flow because they’ve lost the plot with traffic management. Another issue with roadworks – and you might see this yourself- is the fact that gangs spend most of their time leaning against a spade, nattering on mobile phones, drinking coffee etc. Anything but actually doing some bloody graft and getting on with the job.

    In any case the whole country has gone to the dogs now so it’s a waste of time complaining, the emphasis these days has to be on being as self sufficient as possible, resistance to woke and EU derived laws, and resistance to laws designed to keep ‘entrepreneurs ‘ rich.

    It can all go to complete anarchy as far as I’m concerned. In fact that is probably the best medicine – a sentiment common amongst the vast majority of former conservative voters and Englishmen. Well done Johnson, May.

    1. turboterrier
      August 1, 2021

      Steve
      NHS
      TotaÄșy agree Steve, the present monolithic organisation isn’t working.
      Government should be brave enough to take one Trust and use it to pilot new practices and ideas. Stop the turning up for work, leaving brains at the door and going into auto pilot brigade
      If it works and is cost effective adopt it.
      Start introducing self directed team working giving the staff the opportunities to control their and their patients destinies. They see waste and incompetence every working day.
      Is it really such a risk to start with one Trust and create a new NHS? As things are, got to be worth a punt.

      1. Margaret Brandreth-
        August 1, 2021

        We are always being piloted , but the private interventions cannot cope with the way we manage as it involves young GPs actually doing the work instead of farming it out to all others. They just sit there imagining they are consultants only and don’t actually do anything. Privatisation is all about money and where would they be if they had to take the top of a few small salaries? Ironically they got rid of the professionals who could actually do the job and a few like myself are hanging on doing a lot of consultations , investigating , performing physiological tests ,treating within a quick turn around. The newbies even get the credit for NOT being able to all the simple tasks like ECG’s management and interpretation and taking bloods .Train them properly .General Practice is not simply a consultancy , a waffling job for a high salary .

    2. MFD
      August 1, 2021

      +1 100%

  11. J Bush
    August 1, 2021

    Re: the state of the roads.
    In my (very much) younger years I had a motor bike, very useful for getting to and from work, summer and winter alike. Though the latter could be more precarious with ice and snow to consider. That said the roads, even by-roads and lanes were to a good standard, so risk was manageable. Using public transport was not a viable option, as this only provided a 3 hour detour around Wirral, instead of a 15-30 minute journey across. Today many of those public services no longer exist.

    I dread to think what it is like now for motor and pedal cyclists in the winter with all the potholes. If you skid on ice it is possible control it without too much damage. However, today you may not get the chance to control it before the skid takes you into a pothole and you find yourself over a hedge or in front of another vehicle. Even worse, no matter how safely you ride you cannot see potholes, if they are hidden by snow.

    If Johnson & Co wants us, by making them unaffordable, out of cars, and onto bikes, then the roads need a serious upgrade to a decent standard. Or will the unfortunate proletariat just be classed as a different type of collateral damage? If he doesn’t want to upgrade the roads to an acceptable standard, then he will need to consider that outside London and other main cities, there is a serious public transport deficiency.

    Sadly, I seriously doubt in his quest for net zero that a cost/risk schedule, broken down into tasks and activities, such as the above mentioned, will have even crossed his mind.

    1. lifelogic
      August 1, 2021

      Indeed cycling can be up to 50 times more deadly or injury causing (depending where you do it) than driving per mile so they will need rather more healthcare services and sick pay.

      1. hefner
        August 6, 2021

        A rather funny comparison: over the last ten years, passenger vehicle deaths per 100 million miles were 9 times higher than for buses, 17 times higher than for passenger trains, and 1,606 times higher than for scheduled airlines. Do I have to take the plane from London to Birmingham?

    2. SM
      August 1, 2021

      +1

    3. Micky Taking
      August 2, 2021

      ah. memories. Back in the day when cars were rare, motorbikes more common (and with side-cars).
      Hardly any large lorries which never went down minor roads. Those big vehicles were half the weight of current ones, and drove much more slowly. Possibly some reasons for the present state of roads?

  12. None of the above
    August 1, 2021

    When, eventualy, all new vehicles on the road are non fossil fuel and the revenue from VED and fuel duty disappears, what will be the Treasury/Government response? Will EV owners find themselves paying some new tax or will poorer owners of ICE vehicles be impoverished further by increased VED and fuel duty? How will poorer Pensioners be able to visit distant Family members? Will distant Grandchildren lose touch with their Grandparents?
    Is this stratergy some dastardly plan to restrict mobility?
    Will it signal a return to pre-Victorian times when only a select few could afford to travel outside their area?
    I understand why many will welcome more localism and I accept that there will be some positve outcomes myself but what will be the effect on Families who have already been scattered around the Country? Forced or encouraged to spread out geographicaly because of occupational and property prices.
    This Government may be opening a modern day Pandora’s Box!

    1. Timaction
      August 1, 2021

      Go read some Council strategy or building plans. They are already stating that our personal travel will reduce, walking, cycling public transport increased. Problem is we don’t all live in London. Imagine walking home 5 miles with the weekly shop. Maybe an electric Uber!

    2. Original Richard
      August 1, 2021

      None of the above : “Will EV owners find themselves paying some new tax or will poorer owners of ICE vehicles be impoverished further by increased VED and fuel duty?”

      The Government will introduce variable road pricing and the car owner will get a monthly bill.

      The Government will by this time also be able to add to the bill the fines for all possible traffic offences caught on camera.

      Revenue will increase.

  13. The PrangWizard of England
    August 1, 2021

    We need a revolution. We need a removal from their jobs of the mind-dead bureaucrats and politicians who have no real idea of life outside their narrow worlds. I know of course it won’t happen because there is no leader who dares or wishes to do it.

    As for roads, it is natural enough to concentrate on main road issues important as they are but there are hundreds of thousands of miles of minor roads which are collapsing and haven’t had anything other than patching in probably 60 years. I dare say many are narrower than they were then where there is no defined edge and the verges have probably encroached.

    As long as we remain a bankrupt country because we have leaders with posturing minds and no courage who think it is perfectly fine to buy from overseas rather than manufacture here, and dispose of our own businesses for foreign money we will never get to the standard evident in The Netherlands for example.

  14. Christine
    August 1, 2021

    Where I live we used to have a large Civil Service site employing over 3000 staff. As expected this caused a bottleneck of traffic at certain times of the day. Since it shut down and the jobs moved out of town, millions of pounds have been spent on a new road to the site. This is a case of planning being overtaken by events but public sector workers still spending the money allocated for the road improvement scheme. Unfortunately, too many public sector organisations have the mantra, “Use it, or lose it”.

    1. steve
      August 1, 2021

      NOTA

      “When, eventualy, all new vehicles on the road are non fossil fuel and the revenue from VED and fuel duty disappears, what will be the Treasury/Government response?”

      They’ll simply tax the crap out of EV’S instead. Which will be highly amusing, laughing at all those snowflake woke-ists and liberal virtue signallers crying about how unfair it is.

      Sometimes, you just have to let things happen. Let the buggers wreck it all, then absolutely refuse to fix it for them.

      The survivors of Johnson’s destructive agenda will be the ones savvy enough to live off grid, grow their own food etc, and not need to travel anywhere.

    2. steve
      August 1, 2021

      Christine
      Unfortunately, too many public sector organisations have the mantra, “Use it, or lose it”.

      If it were down to me I’d give ’em a new mantra: ‘no pensions, no office chairs, no office doors, open access to the public, serve the public at all times, no hiding behind screens, half hour lunch break, two ten minute tea breaks per day.

      1. MiC
        August 1, 2021

        So do you think that work per se should be grinding and oppressive for all employees then, Steve?

        If not, then which would you allow a reasonable schedule, pay, pension and conditions?

  15. Alan Jutson
    August 1, 2021

    I have red and reread your comments this morning about roads etc, and am a little confused and unclear about your arguments (most unusual)
    You say the motorist is paying far more in taxes for road use than is being spent on roads, but then suggest tolls may be a good idea to keep some infrastructure in good repair.
    Why should the motorist cough up again.
    The simplest method of charging toad users is to put all the tax on fuel with no charge for anything else, then the motorists who use the roads most pay.
    Likewise it is up to the motorist if they choose to drive a gas guzzler with higher emissions per mile, because again they pay more.
    If the tax is on fuel there is no collection need for a whole department at the DVLA with annual road tax charges. also no dogging of payments so the police save some time trying to catch those who do not cough up for road tax.
    The only problem going forward, is how you can tax an electric cars fuel, when people can use a three pin plug from a home socket.

    reply Nowhere did I write that I want tolls and taxes! Certainly not.

    1. a-tracy
      August 1, 2021

      Alan, the electric car users aren’t paying fuel tax at the same levels.

      1. Mark
        August 1, 2021

        Require EVs to be chipped to report the charge supplied to the battery. Calculate the tax due as follows.

        Take average diesel pump price, divide by six to give the VAT element. Add the ~60ppl of duty. So for 132ppl that’s 22+60=82ppl. Assume 10 miles per litre to get a notional charge of 8.2p per mile. Assume an EV manages 3 miles per kWh, so add tax of 24.6p/kWh for EV charging.

        Note: no vehicle tracking required.

      2. Alan Jutson
        August 1, 2021

        a-tracy

        Indeed you are correct, and the additional weight they carry using heavy batteries creates perhaps slightly more road wear than a traditionally powered vehicle, a double problem less income to repair the roads.

        Rest assured it will change as soon as the majority of people own cars are electric, they will be taxed to raise just the same amount.

    2. Alan Jutson
      August 1, 2021

      Reply-reply

      You have suggested road charging before in years past as a solution JR hence perhaps my confusion.

      Very pleased to hear you are not condoning/suggesting such taxes being introduced in the future.

  16. Alan Jutson
    August 1, 2021

    We all know the roads are in a terrible state but why.
    I have done a little local visual check.
    The A329 was re surfaced in Wokingham, complete with a new base layer some 3- 4 years ago, in multiple locations the street furniture has collapsed into the road surface more than once.
    The tell tale sign of a new tarmac surrounding inspection covers, manholes, and drains are plentiful, on some the repair is now failing again. WHY ?
    Is the sub-base on which this furniture has been embedded inadequate, has it been mixed wrongly, is it poor workmanship, or simply is the material not suitable for the job.
    Does the street furniture actually have a wide enough base to spread the load properly over a wide area.
    If such a simple installations are failing twice in 4 years, what hope is there of ever catching up.

    Look for yourself at the area between the Holt school pedestrian traffic lights and Shute End Council offices if you want some local proof, and you will see far in excess of 50% of all the street furniture has failed. Its not just this location, it’s all over the Country, but I pick this location because the road was completely resurfaced complete with new base layer only recently, so this should not have happened in such a short time.
    Do contractors give any sort of guarantee on work, do Councils check on any new work or repairs, if not why not.
    On this same stretch of road the road is now actually collapsing at two points near to the traffic lights and at the lay by/bus pull in on the northern side, outside the School.
    I could go on with much, much more detail and examples, but for the sake of moderation I will curtail my comments now.

    1. Mike Wilson
      August 1, 2021

      I now live in West Dorset. Recently a lane was resurfaced. A planing machine took off a couple of inches and they then laid a new topping. There are no pavements. They left haps around the water meters to each house. Weeks later they tidied up the edges of the gaps around the meters and slapped in some tarmac. They have partially covered most of the meter covers and allowed tar to get into the gap between the cover and the frame. When Wessex Water want to read the meters, some poor bloke is going to have to try to remove the tar so he can get the cover open. And the road surface is rubbish and is already beginning to break up. No-0ne gives a toss how public money is spent.

      1. MiC
        August 1, 2021

        The Thatcher governments removed and centralised most of the significant powers from local authorities.

        They have quasi-compulsory outsourcing, and that would apply to the inspectors that they might bring in to assess the work of the contractors too.

        There’s not much that they can do, to be fair.

        1. Peter2
          August 1, 2021

          Complete twaddle MiC
          Spending by Councils has risen greatly.
          Numbers employed by Councils has risen greatly.
          Stop reading the Guardian and check your statistics.
          There are loads of Council inspectors both in planning, building regs, public heath,rental property environmental and health and safety.
          Surely you know this?

        2. Micky Taking
          August 2, 2021

          Back to ‘its all Thatchers fault’. You must be getting desperate, but it is a change from curtain twitching’.

          1. MiC
            August 2, 2021

            It’s just a fact that the centralisation of power away from LAs was done by her governments, just as it’s a fact that Blair went to war with Bush and the three day week was under Ted Heath.

    2. a-tracy
      August 2, 2021

      Alan, these are all very good questions and ones the local council purchase teams should be asking.

  17. acorn
    August 1, 2021

    What you want JR is a total “Pay-As-You-Go” economy. Mobile phone sales increased rapidly with PAYG requiring no credit checks of purchasers.

    If the rate of growth of public capital stock (non-residential) had continued from 1966 through 1987 at the 1947–1965 average annual growth rate (instead of decreasing), the growth rate of private sector equipment investment would have been between 4 to 6 percentage points above the actual rate of growth.

    In addition to the impact on economic growth, there is a positive correlation between the public provision of infrastructure and private investment. As private investment activity enhances future growth of real income, these statistical results confirm that public policy has permanent effects on real output. The complete opposite has been proven by a decade of Conservative austerity.

    Reply Labour slashed cap ex in 2009-10, Conservatives gradually restored cuts.

    1. lifelogic
      August 1, 2021

      Obviously private sector investment will often follow state sector investment but it does not follow that the state sector was investing it wisely or in the right places and areas. Look at the basket case H2S or all the fake green lunacy and subsidies for example or the vastly expensive Scottish Parliament.

    2. Original Richard
      August 1, 2021

      acorn : “Mobile phone sales increased rapidly with PAYG requiring no credit checks of purchasers.”

      I would think the reason mobile ‘phone sales increased rapidly with PAYG is because they could then be more easily used by crooks.

  18. Lester
    August 1, 2021

    Mr Redwood you tend to say all the right things but nothing ever comes of them

    You seem to live in a parallel universe where everything is rosy and simply doesn’t bear any relationship to the facts that the rest of us have to face

    The new Highway Code reveals the government thinking, the ones who contribute the most are disregarded in favour of the ones who contribute nothing, I was driving down a country B road towards some cyclists and because I didn’t pull over they stopped and shook their fists at me, surely their energy would be much better employed by ensuring their own safety, this is the attitude displayed by the majority of cyclists.

    When I cycled in the 60’s I regarded it as my responsibility to get out of the way of cars..

    Mind you, owning a car will become the preserve of the very wealthiest and we’ll all be resorting to Shanks’s pony in future!

    The council around here does nothing to repair the roads, I’ve suffered 2 wrecked tyres recently, instead they lavish money on fashionable Woke ego boosting projects

    Duplicate comment detected! = censorship in another form

    Reply I am glad you agree with a lot of what I write. As I have often explained this is not a government or Conservative official site so it does not set out usually to explain government policy as that is available elsewhere. I set out what I would like the govt to do and offer analysis of what is happening to influence the national debate. It is not a parallel universe but part of the debate to get change and improvement in government policy.

    1. lifelogic
      August 1, 2021

      +1

    2. Mike Wilson
      August 1, 2021

      Hmmm. When I see a cyclist, I slow right down and wait until I can give them a wide berth. Dorset is full of narrow lanes. When I see a cyclist coming towards me I slow to walking pace, or stop, so they can pass safely without being intimidated by a ton of steel l, moving at speed, just inches from them.

      As far as I am concerned it is MY responsibility not to hit a cyclist or pedestrian. It is not their responsibility to get out of the way of my car.

      1. MiC
        August 1, 2021

        Well said, Mike.

        It’s a pity that some cyclists on footpaths and shared tracks don’t take the same attitude to pedestrians, however.

        “Give Way To Sail”.

        1. No Longer Anonymous
          August 1, 2021

          But you’d be a fool to sail in a shipping lane.

          1. MiC
            August 2, 2021

            There’s a common law maxim:

            An Earlier Right Is A Better Right.

            Pedestrians, horses, and sailing craft were using ancient ways long before motor vehicles and craft were permitted to use them.

            Hence the rule.

      2. John C.
        August 1, 2021

        St Michael. Used to be on M and S clothes, now on John Redwood’s Diary.

      3. a-tracy
        August 2, 2021

        Mike Wilson, so do I, but have you never been behind a pack of selfish irresponsible cyclists? Often riding three abreast, in packs of 20 making themselves longer than a 40ft truck to overtake on country lanes and revelling, yes revelling in the 30 cars and more in a queue crawling behind them, without a safe place to overtake for miles.

    3. Dave Andrews
      August 1, 2021

      I wouldn’t regard a vehicle too big to keep to the left side of the road as having right of way on the wrong side of the road.
      If the cyclist was a homeowner or renting they will be contributing just as much as you to the roads via their council tax.

      1. MiC
        August 2, 2021

        Those are excellent points Dave.

        The first also particularly applies when motorists are passing parked vehicles or other obstructions.

      2. Peter2
        August 2, 2021

        Yet dave, there are special and extra requirements beyond the taxes everyone pays to use the roads in a vehicle.
        You have to have a licence, insurance, registration, pass an exam and pay extra taxes to use the roads.

    4. Iago
      August 1, 2021

      Klaus Schwab has just said that we are never going back to the old normal. I am not confident there is such a thing as government policy. Recommendations, suggestions therefore should be directed to Schwab, the WEF, the Gates Foundation, the Chinese Communist Party, the EU and other foreigners, who appear consistently to have the ear of the government.

    5. Micky Taking
      August 2, 2021

      ‘Mr Redwood you tend to say all the right things but nothing ever comes of them ‘.

      A very basic point here. An experienced older man who has lived through differing governments, policies, economic times and has more than a modicum of intelligence. Views are mostly balanced and pass reasonableness -commonsense in other words. One wonders how it fits with the recent governments’ activities. Such a division that has not meant separation is puzzling.
      Declare UDI Sir John !!

  19. a-tracy
    August 1, 2021

    Stone chip bodywork damage, windscreen chips and cracks, tyre damage from poor roads and potholes, accidents, trips, fall claims from cyclists and pedestrians, all from bad road and road surface management. The new ‘smart motorways’ are not smart, interview professional drivers about their worries at service stations.

    Just yesterday a broken down vehicle in lane 1 of 4 lanes. Two junctions before the stationary vehicle they slowed the traffic down from 60 to 40 it was a low volume running day not much traffic, in years gone by the broken down vehicle would be on the hard shoulder with traffic passing as normal. Now the whole thing comes to a near grinding halt. Side glancers in lane 4 slowed down a fraction the man behind him ran up the back of him, then a third car smashed into the back of them, the whole motorway closed as a police officer was behind the broken down vehicle and pulled out to stop all traffic. A woman with two children got out of vehicle 3 in lane 4! and the traffic started to slow in the opposing four lanes going northbound because they could see people standing right next to the concrete separators they were sitting on it! A two junction tailback then ensued. They are a dangerous development.

  20. NickC
    August 1, 2021

    JR, One necessary road is a motorway link between Manchester (extension of the M57) and Sheffield (joining the M1) via (under) the north Peak District. Another would be a link between Lancaster and Barrow-in-Furness, although that could be too ambitious and unsightly so may need to be scaled back to a M6 to A550 link mimicking the rail bridge. Barrow is where BA builds the nuclear submarines.

    1. MiC
      August 1, 2021

      You propose a motorway tunnel up to thirty miles long.

      Wouldn’t one be more use under the Channel?

      1. Micky Taking
        August 2, 2021

        so that the illegals could walk in?

      2. a-tracy
        August 2, 2021

        The proposed tunnel was 12 miles long on the Manchester to Sheffield route.
        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-37116050

        1. MiC
          August 2, 2021

          I used to drive between the two a lot.

          I don’t fancy any kind of tunnel tbh. The ones in northern Italy are more than enough.

          1. a-tracy
            August 4, 2021

            Well, then you must know how much it is needed especially in winter.

      3. NickC
        August 2, 2021

        No. The last thing we need is yet another connection to the EU.

        1. MiC
          August 2, 2021

          You really have got it bad, haven’t you?

  21. The Prangwizard
    August 1, 2021

    OT It seems our unprincipled deceitful and cowardly PM has authorised the unprincipled deceitful and cowardly Scottish Unionist MP Gove to say the Scots can have an independence referendum after all.

    1. No Longer Anonymous
      August 1, 2021

      Let the English have a say in it.

      They’ll be independent for sure.

    2. Original Richard
      August 1, 2021

      The Prangwizard :

      If the Conservative Party think that independence for Scotland would mean they would forever hold power in the rUK, they should learn the lesson of the Labour Party who mistakenly believed they would rule Scotland if they instituted devolution for Scotland.

  22. Rhoddas
    August 1, 2021

    ~80% of council costs are staff (Source: Chief Finance Officer, my Borough).
    Mandated above inflation increases for lower ranking council staff and teachers, coupled with very low discriminatory Welsh Government funding caused a near 7% council tax rise 2021/22 in our Borough!

    Sir J, the standard business transformation measures in an earlier article/post on Goverment cost controls apply equally to councils, need for focus on delivery, staffing/performance management/process automation/supply chain management/fraud/bad debt management.

    The basics by which most ratepayers measure their service level are poor roads, damaging potholes and sclerotic reaction from councils to fixing; plus bin collection (choosing not to pay extra for garden refuse). Councils appear to have their own internal agenda more to do with looking after ‘their people’ and wokerati diversity issues and sod all to do with the service level basics and in my case, not being held truly accountable by elected Councillors. (Yes I know I should stand).

    The A5/A483 Shrewsbury to Wrexham is the only bit of rubbish single carriageway main road between the south coast of England and HolyHead on the Welsh Coast. I will measure the commitment for Levelling Up by this 20 year old overdue, yet modest road expansion, compared to southern England and Wales. I am sure we all have our own examples of gripes….

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      August 1, 2021

      I agree with you over the A5/A483. It’s always busy with long queues at tge best of times.

  23. Original Richard
    August 1, 2021

    “In contrast a project like HS2 greatly exaggerates the likely use and revenue potential of this planned new rail line and dismisses the point that fares will be under downwards pressure on competing lines once the new line is running, hitting the viability of other provision.”

    This may be not be correct as the HS2 ticket costs will be relatively very high.

    It will depend upon how many passengers are able to travel at the taxpayers’ expense.

    Everyone else will be using alternative trains, or more likely their cars, especially if their journey isn’t from city centre to city centre.

  24. Lindsay McDougall
    August 1, 2021

    Justice delayed is justice denied. So Her Majesty must be persuaded to double the number of judges, some of them young and prepared to work overtime, in order to catch up the back log of prosecutions. Sitting without a jury must be allowed in some cases. Financial crime of all types – embezzlement, scamming, car theft and burglary – must be made not to pay. Financial criminals must be made to pay back double the amount they have stolen, whether in prison or after leaving prison. You must change the Law if necessary to make this happen.

  25. turboterrier
    August 1, 2021

    Mike Wilson

    Thanks Mike, it’s only sometimes I feel that old.

  26. Chris S
    August 1, 2021

    When first approved, HS2 was predicted to cost every household in the UK ÂŁ3,000 but it was said that 90% of households would never use it. That should have been enough to kill the project stone dead but, no, successive governments, supported by the opposition, are still in favour.

    The cost must now have risen to ÂŁ5-ÂŁ7,000 per household and with home working and Zoom etc, there is now no need for it’s claimed increase in
    capacity. So why is it still proceeding ??

    1. Micky Taking
      August 2, 2021

      90% would never use it? So 6.7m WOULD use it? What absolute nonsense.
      My guess, a lot nearer is that the same 30,000 would use it quite regularly.
      6.7m divided by 30k = ???? Percentage please.
      Has Ferguson been doing the 90% estimate?

  27. Alan Jutson
    August 2, 2021

    Chris S

    “why is it still proceeding”

    Probably because all contracts have been agreed and signed off, and the cost of stopping it would be the same as completion.

    Never did agree with it Chris, but you asked why ,and I suggest the above is the reason.

    The taxpayer always gets the wrong end of the payment stick every time the government agrees a contract for anything it would seem.

    1. MiC
      August 2, 2021

      And to think, that the Chinese built a thirty-mile motorway and rail sea bridge for just a fraction of the cost.

      But then, they’re not ruled by the Tufton Street doctrine, are they?

      1. Peter2
        August 2, 2021

        Easy with endless cheap labour, cheap land, no real planning objection process, minimal Heath and Safety restrictions, burning coal to create power and no Trades Unions obviously.
        You all OK with this Marty.

        1. MiC
          August 2, 2021

          The Chinese probably saved about four million lives of its people by their magnificent covid response.

          This country stood back for precious weeks, and as a result scores of thousands died on the other hand.

          There’s plenty that I don’t like about China, but I don’t think that anyone here can point the finger at them over not valuing the lives of their people.

          1. Peter2
            August 2, 2021

            If you believe the figure given out by China you are very gullible MiC
            Not that that has anything to do with your original post.
            Divert and run away as usual.
            Very interesting that you totally failed to address any of the well known criticisms of China that I raised.
            Is it really Cardiff in the UK you live ?

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