I wrote about this brewing crisis recently and have tweeted about the dangers of the unduly hasty US withdrawal . I will return to this topic with a longer piece on Wednesday morning ahead of the Parliamentary debate. I am putting out this bookmark so those of you who want to write about it have a tag to do so.
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August 16, 2021
Thank you for giving us the chance to comment ahead of Wednesday’s debate, that is most thoughtful of you.
August 17, 2021
+1
August 16, 2021
Got to protect our borders.
Got to resist the never ending push from the political and chattering classes to have ever more immigration.
Got to help our own needy far more, and the needy of the rest of the world far less.
Got to question our close relationship with the USA, and learn to take our own decisions.
Where we want to help individuals abroad who are not British, then find ways of doing it that minimise the problems back home.
Stop endorsing medieval superstition, no matter who peddles it.
Fight for better basic education everywhere, so that people can make better decisions what is real and who to support.
Get ready for more death on our own streets if we are not super careful how we handle this.
A bit of equal access anti evil stance, we should be as prepared to be critical of Saudi evil as we are of poorer places.
etc
August 17, 2021
Iain, Indeed. Because our ruling class always puts the UK last. The moral rot goes right from constantly apologising for things done centuries ago, to dishing out our hard earned cash to appease any critic of the UK, to welcoming to our home those that hate and despise us, to subsidising the EU empire’s expansion, to obliterating England.
When are they going to realise that Jonny Foreigner does not owe us a living? And that we will only survive by standing up for ourselves?
August 16, 2021
It seems like few want to fight the Taliban, but a large number are prepared to face almost certain death trying to escape Afghanistan.
The best thing we could do for that country would be to close our borders to it and force its inhabitants to face up to their own problems.
August 16, 2021
Yes! And rout out the Pakistani Army that has been gathering in Britain via the channel dinghy crossings.
Britain must come first, every time. However Boris has done a very poor job of PM so I suggest its time he resigned.
August 17, 2021
He’s been an appalling Prime Minister but he won’t resign. Conservative MPs and the 1922 Committee should take action. Appoint David Davis or IDS as an Interim Prime Minister.
August 17, 2021
You have to understand that the British establishment no longer see their role as protecting the home and its people, its culture and its history.
Johnson will of course offer up our home to as many as want it, drunk on the euphoria of doling out favours to all which are not his or any British politicians right to dole out. Don’t we hear it continually in how proud they are to be taking in more than other Countries.
The fact that the establishment hasn’t even been honouring its commitments to the service men sent there as well as Iraq is of little concern to them . It is the International stage they care for, and Johnson is one of the worst offenders.
August 16, 2021
+100 Gareth. Especially when you hear about the corruption of the Generals and local police who have been pocketing large sums of money to buy property all over the world. What I have heard this evening about corruption with our money makes me extremely angry when our government ask our fine young troops to go and try to improve life in Afghanistan. Many have lost their lives and others limbs while corrupt individuals have gained.
August 17, 2021
+1
The first thought that came to my kind was the waste in lives of our servicemen, and nothing else.
August 17, 2021
Very true…
August 17, 2021
Mark, they did not ie for nothing. They died to show us that the entire political system has to go. Our own. Mps may hate to hear it. Too bad.
August 17, 2021
Absolutely. Expendable as always for someone else’s kicks on the international stage.
Many servicemen defended statues around the Country during the summer of the BLM cultural revolution. I don’t recall hearing much from MP’s except to insinuate they were far right coming from certain quarters. Far Right is each and everyone of us these days who do want to preserve something of what was handed down to us over the centuries.
August 16, 2021
Agreed.
Iâm not generally a fan of President Biden, but on this, I agree with him. The US and the UK spent 20 years training the Afghan Army, and the US spent a trillion dollars, just to see them refuse to put up a fight for their own Country.
I don’t think more time would have made any difference.
August 17, 2021
It certainly seems to be that the “hearts & minds” of the Afghan population at large were never fully won. They saw British and American troops as invaders rather than saviours.
But, where to now?
Does it give us a problem if the Chinese which to take over the area?
After all they are the ones that in recent years have been supplying Pakistan with weapons more so than the USA.
Are the Taliban now overstretched will someone suggest that now is the time to go back in there? – I hope not.
August 17, 2021
Biden has a cheek talking about fighting for your country. He was a draft dodger and has never heard gunfire.
August 17, 2021
So a bit like DJT with his bone spurs?
August 17, 2021
No not very much like it at all.
August 17, 2021
‘never heard gunfire.’
I would suggest great difficulty in finding an American who hasn’t heard gunfire. The deaf spring to mind.
August 17, 2021
Yes, I agree with you Biden is correct, as was Trump, to get ou of Afghanistan and Iraq, but for different reasons. Let’s look at why we went into Afghanistan AND Iraq. It was, ostensibly, to go after the perpetrators of 9/11.
Hard Data:2,977 people tragically died in the WTB (15 of the hijackers were Saudi nationals). The USA, ALONE has lost over 7,000 service and contract personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan since 9/11. The UK and other members of this expedition suffered losses and the local populations in the 10’s if not 100s of thousands. So, Was is a good idea? Of couse not, it was bad policy made for other reasons than retribution for 9/11. Now I think we knew it was a dad idea from the outset, so why did we follow along like a good little dog? Sir J, please ask this question.
AS to why invade Iraq, who had nothing to do with 9/11, look at the oil price pre and post the Iraq wars.
August 17, 2021
How come the Americans did not see to it that the Afghan troops were paid? An obvious question which has not been answered – why not?
August 17, 2021
Trump would not have handed over all the hardware and conceded unconditionally. He would not have left the airport open to chaos.
While he was negotiating with the Taliban – about a year – there was not a single American death. He will have made it as plain to the Taliban as he did to the other nasties in the region, that if they misbehaved he would be after them. Bagdhadi and Suleimani didn’t find it was their poor people who were bombed.
August 16, 2021
There’s nothing to be done. For Britain, it’s over. The very last thing we should be doing as a country is sending any more British people to die for nothing in a country where we simply have no interests at stake whatsoever.
The unfortunate people in that country need the chance now to get back to at least some kind of peaceful existence that they haven’t had for so long. If in future they want to get rid of Islamic fundamentalist rule, fine. If not, too bad. Either way, the choice has to be theirs.
Mike Pompeo was involved in negotiations with the Taliban last year, and his judgment was that the Taliban are not linked to Al Qaeda. They have no interest in harbouring terrorists , especially when they remember what happened last time they did that. I actually hope our government has the sense to try to improve relations with them, once the dust has settled. Boris Johnson shouldn’t find that impossible. After all, it was Blair who took us into Afghanistan, and a Conservative government under Cameron who got us out.
August 17, 2021
Then promptly invaded Libya.
August 17, 2021
OK, Mark B, but at least he did get us out.
Actually Cameron’s attack on Libya was 3 years earlier, and didn’t involve any British troops being put in harm’s way. We just provided the Islamist fighters with an air force. If you ask what good that did, I’m not sure I know the answer.
I guess it just shows defending David Cameron is quite a tough job. I hadn’t tried it before.
August 17, 2021
Perhaps no British troops were put in harms way in Libya directly, but haven’t we all been put in harms way indirectly.
August 17, 2021
Ghadaffi was holding back the African migrants. Once he was toppled, the Libyan coast became a launching point for the Invasion of Europe. You wonder if this is why Ghadaffi was overthrown.
August 16, 2021
This outcome was obvious from 10 years back, the Americans had no idea how to master Afghanistan & have been adrift in terms of military mission after Bin Laden & Al Qaeda ceased to be an issue. Clearly they are not willing to expend any more of their blood & treasure on the place. However the territorial defeat of ceding that territory to an entity such as the Taliban is a regional tactical defeat for the USA – whether it becomes a strategic threat to its control of the Arabian oil fields remains to be seen.
HMG needs to begin stepping out from the declining USA’s shadow, where it’s been cowering since Suez, the current Westminster Executive has been made to look worryingly lightweight & feeble in action by this business.
August 17, 2021
+1
August 17, 2021
Ajax, True. The worst aspect is how our government does not understand that foreign cultures are . . . well . . . different. They do not have the same values – personal pronouns, climate catastrophe, deriding God, women’s playgrounds, etc, do not motivate them.
And that includes the puppet government in Afghanistan itself – corruption came with lack of belief in Western “values”, even though they may have paid lip-service to the British and Americans who doled out the largesse.
The Americans made the same mistake in Iraq – believing that all they had to do was overthrow an evil dictator for the Iraqis to see the light and set up a Western style democracy.
Moreover, it has become fashionable in the West to sneer at nationalism so we are always bewildered when other peoples invoke nationalism as well as having different culture and values.
August 17, 2021
Well said. I think someone coined the phrase the ‘Wests Liberal Jihad’ As if everyone on earth wishes to adopt the so called ‘values’. It is clear many do not even when they are here.
This idea that people’s systems/cultures are all interchangeable and only different because of a different mountain range or some other geographical element within their home land is naive in the extreme.
We hear so much about diversity, yet for some reason the powers that be seem to refuse the fact that the world is full of diverse people and cultures and trying to mix them all up in one melting pot in one area (namely Western Europe) is not going to end well.
August 16, 2021
In occupations for 20+ years and yet they cannot even organise a sensible and safe withdrawal.
So out of touch was Biden and the US Government that he though Afghanistan was suitable defended & yet it fell within days with almost zero resistance. What has Blair got to say? He is usually popping up everywhere commenting on almost everything – not this topic it seems.
August 17, 2021
The world’s Superpower with the most sophisticated forces on earth, once again sent packing by the bed-knobs and broomstick brigade, who did not have any air power. It seems they can only wage war on sophisticated countries, so they should learn to stay out of the backward ones.
August 17, 2021
They don’t dare wage war on sophisticated countries either.The planners assessment of the outcome of war with Russia or China was :”we get our asses handed to us.”Under every scenario gamed the US loses.
August 17, 2021
Apparently the US waged war on Afghanistan ‘cos they thought bin Laden was there and was responsible for 9/11 but even now they have no evidence of that ! The US cares not for evidence (WMD etc.) just for vengeance, murder and perhaps to make a few very, very rich.
Not having any evidence against bin Laden, the U.S. did not present the case to the United Nations, and so they did not ask for a UN Security Council resolution authorizing them to launch a war on Afghanistanâno such resolution would have been approved.
August 16, 2021
Please Sir John, do whatever you can to ensure the National security of this Country is not put in jeopardy, by a hasty and botched attempt to help the situation. Boris and the Government’s first duty is to protect its own citizens.
Talk of allowing refugees without passports (and security checks?) is a dangerous step too far.
August 16, 2021
Think back to 2015.
Bands of men marched unopposed across Europe.
Who would stop an army?
August 16, 2021
+1
August 16, 2021
Better times. I said on this site a few days ago that there will be a danger now with our foot loose and fancy free attitude to refugees that we will allow Taliban in. Politicians must stop thinking we can rescue the world. WE CAN’T AND MANY OF US DON’T WANT TO.
August 17, 2021
Politicians need to open their eyes as to whatâs really going on here. This enemy is clever and knows how to bid its time. They know how to win the long game and we are playing right into their hands. We have spent the last 20 years training and arming an army that had no intention of fighting the Taliban. They are the Taliban and we have made them stronger. They are infiltrating all western countries and politicians are inviting them in. I fear for my grandchildren and the world we are leaving them. They will look back at the fools who have been taken in by the deceit of a foe that doesnât play by any rule book and plays on the kindness of a weak society.
Why can so many people on this site see the bigger picture but our politicians make decisions that only make things worse?
August 16, 2021
Indeed. Lots of things happening without a mandate.
August 17, 2021
+100
And thank you, Sir John for inviting comment and for listening.
August 17, 2021
I would echo that, but I think it is too late. Johnson has every desire to appear the great all giving Emperor to all people’s of the world. The whole establishment is geared to helping others. They singed the UN Migration Compact which any Govt. serious about immigration would have ripped up, but no it remains. The wording from every Govt. department and representative should tell you that this isn’t going to stop.
We are on our own, the British establishment is a ‘global’ affair and we are just another cog in their wheel.
August 16, 2021
Biden has to bear the full responsibility for the unfolding debacle that is Afghanistan. The Trump administration initiated discussions with the Taliban and both were right that in the long run there is no point in supporting a regime that its own people are indifferent about. However, it was Biden alone who made the decision to pull out at very short notice, no doubt, against the united advice of all of the US military.
At least our government instigated talks with other allies in the hope of putting together a coalition without the US to continue to prop up the regime in order to protect Western countries against another 911-type attack planned and put together in Afghanistan.
This was doomed to failure because whenever security issues are at stake, only the UK and the US usually step up to the plate and others join very reluctantly. In this case it appears that no Western country was prepared to stand by us, not even Australia, and certainly not any of the countries in the EU who are worse than useless when it comes to even defending themselves. Reports are about in the media saying that the EU External Action Service ( a misnomer if ever there was one ), is scrambling around Kabul trying to get member states to sponsor visas for Afghan employees at its embassy ! Why the EU needed an embassy in Kabul, heaven only knows.
The Chinese, North Koreans and Russia will draw their own conclusions after this utter debacle and will be thoroughly enjoying the ridicule being heaped on Sleepy Joe. Like Obama over Syria, Biden has proved completely ineffective at conducting foreign affairs and displays no backbone whatsoever.
This is hardly the Westâs finest hour.
Sooner or later, as a direct result of Bidenâs actions, there will be another 911.
I hope the old boy lives long enough to see and answer for it.
August 16, 2021
“The government is determined to devise a âworld-leadingâ asylum scheme for Afghan refugees”
I despair, and I suppose they won’t be seeking relief from all the millions of migrants they want to take from elsewhere, these will be in addition to them, always always adding more people to our overcrowded island, never fewer.
August 17, 2021
Presumably ‘world leading’ like the expensive dud Track and Trace. Johnson has a mania for world leading with nothing to back it up. All the dinghy crowd will suddenly now be Afghans no doubt.
August 17, 2021
And the taxpayer is forced to pay for all this, but has no say in the matter.
Its extortion, pure and simple.
August 16, 2021
It marks another step in the actual and perceived decline of the USA and its influence around the world. That decline looks irreversible. Possibly it will be accompanied by the temptations of isolation and protectionism within the USA. If so the UK will need to think long and hard about its own place in the world and how it evolves other alliances with like minded countries.
August 17, 2021
We need to base OUR INTERESTS on trade and access to raw materials. If we could work out what WE NEED then it should not be too difficult to build both a foreign policy and a military to support that. Currently, to my eyes at least, it seem our lot are more, ‘follow the leader (USA and / or EU)’ than being capable of independent thought and mind.
August 16, 2021
This PM to protect his party from accusations of inhumanity will pander to the left and the race lobby and open up our borders to millions of unknown people from a country that Biden’s just fed to the terrorists.
Once again, the Tory party puts its own interests before the interests of the British people because they cannot confront Labour and their race baiting activists
Godwin’s Law has destroyed the very soul of the Tory party. Today,the Tories are utterly without morality or honesty. It is tragic to see how playing the race card can destroy a party and remove the voice of so many Tory MPs from discussing extremely important issues that were once considered civil areas of debate
The phobia menace has crushed our voice
Without the right to offend others we are without voice
August 16, 2021
@DOM, I find hard to believe this PM is interested in anything outside a desperate need to ‘grandstand and virtue signal’. Or in other words his own ego. He is not a Conservative, and he has little interest in the UK, but he will play along desireing to be identified as a world leader.
August 17, 2021
Agreed. Witness giving HK Chinese rights to live here.
August 16, 2021
Taiwan, Bulgaria, and other places near an acquisitive nation must be worried. Will the US actually fight when push comes to shove.
August 17, 2021
Why should the US fight?
August 17, 2021
Well, Mike, I believe in the human (and UN) right of self-determination. Don’t you? If China attacks Taiwan or India I support the right of their people to resist the conquerors. In some cases that may mean diplomacy, and sanctions. It may take the form of aid – but to friends only, not our enemies or even our competitors. More rarely it may take the form of military assistance. Too often the West (inc the UK) buys our enemies and sells our friends. As can be seen by the UK’s treatment of Afghans who helped the British armed forces.
August 17, 2021
If a people want to be free they must be willing to fight for that freedom themselves – and die if necessary. Just as we did in so many wars. The Afghans clearly were not willing to do so and therefore deserve whatever government they get. We gave them the weapons but they never used them. They have no right, moral or otherwise, to now expect to come and live in our country. They have NOTHING to offer US. Britain does not exist to serve or benefit foreigners!
As for Taiwan, I would SELL them nuclear weapons so that they can stand up to China. We could earn billions from this, and we would prove to China that we will not be intimidated by them. You only beat a bully by standing up to him. Of course, Boris Johnson has neither the courage nor the gumption to do this.
August 17, 2021
Well NATO and the UN are unless paper tigers that are more akin to social-workers rather than peace-keepers
August 16, 2021
So here we have wokery.
Betraying afghans and leaving them to a terrible fate.
Those that have not fallen off aeroplanes that is!
Women encouraged to overturn tradition and take on menâsâ jobs and now in fear for their lives.
Poking, prodding, meddling.
Changing and destroying. For personal gain.
Is this a lessons that idiot liberals and their enablers will learn?
August 17, 2021
They tried to take a pre-history, tribal, feudal and patriarchal society into a modern liberal western one with predictable results. From the images I have seen, it was, once again, ONLY MEN that were fleeing. No women, no children – ie the usual suspects.
August 17, 2021
From the pictures I have seen, it was MOSTLY men, with just a few women. It could be that the terrible treatment meted out to women (as usual in conflicts across the world) simply resulted in a far fewer of them being either alive or physically capable of leaving.
August 17, 2021
‘They tried to take a pre-history, tribal, feudal and patriarchal society…’ Not so – it was the US which got frightened at the word ‘Marxist’ of the Taraki government. That govt. reformed the land laws ousting the rich landlords which took up to 80% of the farmers produce (Allah said so) , gave the farmers ownership of land, cancelled their debts going back to their grandfathers, liberated work practices enabling women to train in many employment areas, and letting women dress as they pleased (see photos of Kabul at the time) . So the society was opening up probably n a way the US would like but no, can’t have a Marxist govt there. (The CIA put an infiltrator into Taraki’s govt. to undermine it – he murdered Taraki) That started opposition which led to fighting which led to the USSR coming in, which led to the US coming in which led to a civil war, which led to the formation of the Taliban which led to 9/11.
So none of that needed to happen if the US had not interfered in the first place. What a great ally we have.
August 16, 2021
I have questions about what seems to be all-pervasive optimism bias. Taking just one recent example, how did advisors to the President reach the view that Kabul might be threatened in 90 days when it actually took less than 9? One can imagine the sequence, like Chinese Whispers: “how long until they reach Kabul?” “oh, I’d be amazed if they lasted 90 days”……. ……”the figure people are using in-country is 90 days”…… ……”sir, the estimate is that Kabul can hold for 90 days”.
The more troubling manifestation is in training impact. The Army has had infantry units deployed in “operational mentoring” roles with the ANA for ten years or more (for a searing, vivid account of that work try The Junior Officers Reading Club by Patrick Hennesey). I think our host has to ask Ministers why it was that all that work seems to have achieved nothing. On what basis did the practitioners – mostly NCOs – believe they were having a beneficial impact on their trainees when in fact – on the one or two days when it mattered – the ANA chose to walk away from their posts? Or did they think it was all hopeless but chose not to say so? And why was there no external capability to objectively & accurately scrutinize the outputs?
If I was in the Treasury I would be embarrassed to have funded it all. And so we should take a big black marker pen and cross out everything in the Integrated Review about “training assistance” battalions and “defence mentoring” because as far as I can tell the lesson of Afghanistan is that it just doesn’t work. Give the money to the Royal Navy and the Border Force instead.
August 16, 2021
We knew it was hopeless and did say so but – as usual – the Westminster bubble knew best.
August 16, 2021
– what makes you think the outcome was not anticipated and or planned because it seems that way? Or are you suggesting this was a surprise?
– Create the problem, cue the solution the globalists will call for more immigration to the west? no doubt virtual signalling as well
– No more immigration into the UK of 3rd party nationals who may well be security threats, particularly young males who seem able to dispense with significant others.
– All this needs to be managed locally NOT THE UK.
How much immigration of trained fighting age males, is needed to cause serious civil disturbance?
August 16, 2021
A sad end to a policy which was rushed and ill thought out in the first place.
If we knew we could not Train an army to protect itself when it is being schooled by the best in the World and given equipment, then we should have been honest with ourselves instead of wasting more years and lives.
After 5 years you should be aware, after 10 you should give up.
We have been there for 20 years.
Clearly not enough Afghanistan young men volunteered or were willing to fight the enemy, but would rather let someone else do it for them, whilst they either turned their heads or run away.
Good job for us our parents did not do the same thing in 1939.
How many Afghan young men have come across the channel in the last few years, has anyone asked them WHY they are not at Home doing their best, whilst our young men are dying for their Country !
For goodness sake make sure we do not venture into anything like this again JR.
August 16, 2021
Whilst the USA and UK needed to withdraw from Afghanistan at some point, but surely not before the Afghan forces are effective, else we end up in the current situation with the past twenty years efforts for nothing.
This is a very significant moment for the free world. We now cannot assume any reliance on the USA in the increasingly uncertain world we live in, certainly not whilst the American people choose a bystander for a president.
August 16, 2021
Edward. The people and the men of Afghanistan couldn’t be arsed to fight for their own freedom and were overcome by a bunch of heathens on motorbikes because they had no faith in their leaders or their country. Corruption is rife and many have not been paid wages and are hungry. They don’t want to fight for corruption. Why do you think we should continue to send our men there?
August 17, 2021
Yes, the US was very stupid not to ensure the Afghan troops were paid properly and on time to perhaps get them into a real defensive force to keep western interests there so that much money could be made with the oil pipeline proposed to go through. Though the money made by the contractors, fuel suppliers, weapons manufactures etc. was more than enough to keep them happy without the pipeline.
August 17, 2021
As I said on another thread, the Afghan army â thanks to UK and US financial and military support â was *four times* the size of the Taliban forces and much better equipped. They collapsed because of: (i) the grotesque corruption of the politicians, (ii) the utter incompetence of the officer cadre, and (iii) the sheer cowardice of the troops. If the Afghans are not, despite all the help and advantages we gave them, going to fight for their country, their freedom and their future then why the hell should we? They DO NOT DESERVE our help, and we should therefore have no qualms about leaving them to their fate.
August 16, 2021
We have some big, powerful and rich allies in the middle-east gulf region, including Saudi Arabia, Jordan and PakistanâŠ..as major players in the muslim world are they providing the Taliban with guidance or accepting refugees ? Why is all the burden on the UK & USA ?
August 17, 2021
Saudi Arabia an ally,really?! Pakistan is in bed with China.It’s 2021 not 1950.And Jordan has never been anything other than fragile.
August 17, 2021
”Saudi Arabia and the United Kingdom are strategic allies. There are more than 200 joint ventures between British and Saudi Companies, worth $17.5 billion, and some 30,000 British nationals are living and working in Saudi Arabia as well as nearly 100,000 Saudi nationals living in the UK”
August 17, 2021
But Saudi won’t take any Muslim refugees – remember the thousands of empty air conditioned tents they had (for Haj pilgrims I think) but not a single Syrian refugee was invited?
August 18, 2021
Islamic countries do nothing to help refugees from another muslim countries….they are most of the time the closest safe harbour or closest land neighbour – yet still do nothing ?
August 18, 2021
That makes the UK a client of Saudi Arabia-not the same thing as an ally.
August 17, 2021
I have been reading about plans/suggestions regarding the growing Afghani refugee crisis, and how the West will be able to accommodate them. So far, I’ve seen no suggestions about help for them from Russia and China – or indeed India or Pakistan.
Perhaps someone has information?
August 17, 2021
With our views weâre anticipating thousands of refugees â however, their military, their government, and the majority of the public didnât fight the Taliban they welcomed themâŠ.maybe theyâll settle into a way of life like their neighbouring Muslim countries
August 17, 2021
I am concerned that the refugees will also have with them Taliban fighters who want to gain access to England.Take care Dominic.
August 17, 2021
Read the accounts of the soldiers who had served there. All thought that there were clear signs of progress, a freer society especially for woman.
The Westâs decision to pull out was shoddy and deceitful as is the not my fault spin now being seen and in this the U.K. is up to its neck. Crocodile tears from Ben Wallace. To say that the Afghan army was ready and able to repel the Taliban is a downright lie. Ask the Tommies on the ground. Even if their Commanders have been forced to give the âpoliticalâ view, they know the truth.
No doubt the debate on Wednesday will be the usual virtue signalling hand wringing rubbish. Johnsonâs comment that all money and lives have not been wasted and Raabs pathetic empty threats about holding the Taliban to account have already set the tone.
Johnny Mercer yet again, has shown the people of straw that purport to lead this country, what true courage is.
August 17, 2021
” a freer society especially for woman (sic)”
We have ZERO responsibility for the lifestyles of women in other countries. The notion that we should try to export and impose our way of life on other countries is arrogant, imperialistic, stupid and unworkable.
August 17, 2021
Biden was probably correct that there would be no right time to leave Afghanistan, he was probably right in pointing out how the afghan army dropped weapons and ran. He of course blamed everyone but himself for the catastrophe that is unfolding before our eyes.
But, why on earth did he not take more consideration of the pace of withdrawal, why did he not first place much emphasis on ensuring the afghan army was ready and the money being pumped into Afghanistan was going to the right places instead of to the elite who have flown off with helicopters full of cash.
Why ? Because he doesn’t care about human issues and he is stupid. People condemned Trump, but history will show Biden and the democrats as the most self serving insular and inept American government ever.
I am embarrassed to have previously had a respect for American ideals.
August 17, 2021
R. McD., +1
August 17, 2021
The situation in Afghanistan is to an outsider horrific.
However what can any debate in the HoC achieve? Yes it gives Boris a platform to âgrandstandâ, to involve himself in more gesture politics even send out a âvirtue signalâ But, that is it. Its the sum total of the man but also a realization Government is neglecting its duty when it comes to the safety and security of the Country.
While the UK taxpayer did pay for and create the facilities that permitted the UK to have an independent view, the UK Governments have sold these off these to the highest bidders. The UK now has to buy in again at taxpayers expense (the taxpayer always pays twice) the basic fundamentals of the UKâs safety and security.
There are hundreds if not thousands of illustrations of how the UK Government and Parliament is no longer in a position of making the laws amending them or repealing them as would be expected in a free democracy. All our legislators can do is order the picking up of litter and refuge collection â its still a local council. In terms of the UKâs Security it now lays with the âPolitical Willâ of other foreign powers.
One of many illustrations, much in the news the UK Carrier force, is only able to function by the political discretion of the EU and it particularly France. The UK sold them all the functioning bits that allows it to operate and now buys in at a their discretion.
UK energy, its factory power base, its home heating sold off to the EU and others and is now only available to the UK at the discretion and political will of foreign powers. Even wind power is facilitated buy EU producers and their political will.
UK plane manufacturing doesnât exist its all EU, the venerable Land Rover bought by the EU, moved to the EU. Even the UK army tanks are now maintained by the EU/Germany.
Yesterday we learned that the equipment and facilities to allow the UK submarine fleet to operate is under consideration to be sold to the political will of a foreign power.
In a nut shell any debate in Parliament on Afghanistan is just the usual âgrandstandingâ gesture politics, the UK can now only operate inside and outside its own territory by the political will of foreign powers because the UK Government âsoldâ them that capability. The UK citizen is the denied the right to influence any debate as they cannot vote in those Countries that hold our safety and security in their hands.
August 17, 2021
I see the polls asking the publics view of the government handling of immigration are pretty much as I have been saying. How long can the political class go on abusing the public like this before the bubble bursts?
August 17, 2021
lets have a referendum on immigration, the gap between the political class and real people is far too large
August 17, 2021
How many Afgans will get asylum within our immigration rules?
How secure are the inflatables we have in store at Dover?
Will they end up in northern France?
What a disaster.
August 17, 2021
Imran Khan was yesterday praising the Taliban for freeing the shackles of slavery in Afghanistan saying
‘Chains of slavery broken’ after Taliban takeover says Pakistan PM Imran Khan!!!
With friends like that… Crazy world.
August 17, 2021
Surely without Pakistan’s support the Taliban could never have endured so long. They got food, medical care and hospitality on tap there. Also Pakistan’s port(s) were open for the Talban to import weapons from Doha and land there to be trucked up into Afghanistan. I can’t believe the US didn’t know about that but seems they did noting about it!
August 17, 2021
America got it right post WW2 in Europe and Japan. They also got it right after the Korean war. In terms of Iraq Syria, Libya, Iran and now Afghanistan they have got it to varying degrees very wrong. I can only conclude that those making the decisions in recent conflicts have a blind spot to history and have a lower understanding of the world political scene than those they followed. The consequences of the Biden Afghanistan debacle will have long reaching consequences that have not been thought through, and they will impact on all of us adversely.
August 17, 2021
It appears from reports that the “tired old man who they elected king” (Don Henley – End of the Innocence) didn’t bother notifying, let alone consulting, the UK Prime Minister about the plans for withdrawal. If he had, it beggars belief that the Foreign Sec would have disappeared off abroad on holiday. So the reports are probably accurate.
This isn’t the first time an American President has so disrespected its British allies. So the first lesson to be learnt is that the next time a US President “requests” our involvement in one of their foreign adventures the response must be the same one Wilson gave over Vietnam: NO. The Americans simply don’t have the intelligence (in both senses of the word) to operate successfully in countries/cultures so radically different from their own. They don’t have the staying power, and they consistently fail to liaise properly with their partner countries.
It’s illuminating that the only statement we’ve had from the Empty Suit in No.10 is “The UK will make a world-leading asylum offer.” Why us? Why don’t other Muslim countries offer them asylum? Why must our tiny, over-crowded islands offer a “world-leading” asylum offer.
Presumably the tens of thousands he intends shipping over here will be in addition to the tens of thousands the UK Border Farce/RNLI is providing a free ferry service for down in Dover.
And then we’ll be told we have a housing crisis.
I expected Theresa May to be useless, but I really thought Johnson would be a success. I have never been more disappointed and disillusioned by a supposedly Conservative Prime Minister/Government. He is an utter waste of space.
Job done ….. so he can go back to removing our Civil Liberties over a Low Consequence Infectious Disease with a mortality rate of 0.2%; lecturing us about climate change and planning how to force expensive, inefficient and unaffordable “green” technology on us and make us pay for it.
August 17, 2021
I would guess! Given how the mainstream media exaggerates the situation in Afghanistan will be different within a week or so.
The US and its allies only entered Afghanistan to remove the safe haven for Al-Qaeda, hopefully the Afghani’s remember that.
Then mission creep sets in. They all got ahead of themselves, politicians then went on to kill our own service personnel. The US, UK etc got lead astray by their own ego’s – ‘lets have a democracy like ours’ then we must ensure it is also a ‘puppet of ours’. The UK in particular should take note, in the UK the Government is frightened of its people and fights them daily. Democracy is important and maintaining it is a constant battle.
Its just possible to suggest the Taliban were not and are not enemies of the West, they just made the mistake of harboring the enemies of the West. Lets just hope the lesson is learned
August 17, 2021
The rise and fall of the Roman Empire Mk 3 or Mk 13?
Sadly Afghanistan is still in the post Stone Age.
You cannot win Hearts & Minds overnight if you don’t understand even their history of resistance.
Never Assume “Lessons will be learned” or even heeded.
August 17, 2021
How many more migrants can the UK accommodate ? – usually primarily England –
And how can we afford to pay for them ?
August 17, 2021
Maylor.
They will be brought here, and we will not be asked, but our taxes will be increased to pay for them.
The Politicians will settle into their comfortable lives, smugly polishing their halos, and preaching to the rest of us, about âcelebrating diversityâ.
Dominic Raab said we are a âbig heartedâ Country. I was not impressed by that remark.What choice do we have!
August 18, 2021
Maylor. We should ask Sturgeon. It seems she is going to spend millions on refugees. She can send it back down to England seeing as we will put up the bulk of them. Even if they start off in Scotland they will soon disappear over the border into England just as hundreds have already..
August 17, 2021
Just heard the Foreign Secretary on the radio promising a big increase in foreign aid to Afghanistan which he hopes won’t all go to the Taliban! Good money after bad!! We have already donated the arming of the Taliban forces with what we have left behind – perhaps the UK Government is going to sponsor them to be a nuclear power?
August 17, 2021
We should stop aid to all muslim countries….if they need aid they can ask the super rich Saudi Arabia and their religious spiritual icon
August 17, 2021
I agree.
August 18, 2021
Peter. Donating more? What for? It would seem the money we’ve already invested has been stolen by those in charge so why the hell are we giving more to what is still a lawless society?
August 17, 2021
Is it too much to ask Mps who voted for this war knowing what happened in korea and vietnam should resign?
August 17, 2021
Was this withdrawal supported by the CFR, John?
August 17, 2021
Boris seemed rediculous almost saying he looked forward to working with the new govt in Afghanistan.
August 17, 2021
Seemed ridiculous ?
Johnson is ridiculous. A private school, entitled, bag of wind. Same description applies to Blair and Cameron.
August 18, 2021
Come on Bob, it at least gave them a laugh.
August 17, 2021
President Biden in describing the Afghan army as unwilling to fight the Taliban for their nation failed to realise that Afghanistan is a country where a majority prefer to live in tribes under Sharia law and a set of social customs of the 6th century and would revert to this once the US with their $billions withdrew.
It is a mystery to me as to why our ruling elites believe that Europe is enriched by importing these tribal groups from both the Middle East and Africa.
To replace our nation states?
August 17, 2021
Seems to me to be Western Civilization’s Stalingrad.
Or am I being too pessimistic?
August 17, 2021
That was Syria.Russia and Iran turned the tide of western globalization there.I said this a few years ago.I also posited the question where will the Berlin be;someone suggested Berlin as a reply ;well,no,Berlin is not a power in global geopolitics.It will be London-everything has been gambled on globalism in the post WWII era,as a way out of our bankruptcy, and we have lost as will become increasingly clear.
August 17, 2021
@Nota#
The same source
Even as late as October 1963, when Harold Macmillan was handing over the prime ministership to Alec Douglas-Home, he is supposed to have called the younger man to his office and passed on some reassuring advice, âMy dear boy,â he said, looking down from his paper, âas long as you donât invade Afghanistan youâll be absolutely fine.â Sadly, John Major appears to have neglected to give the same advice to Tony Blair.
Our woeful political Elite in action. Why do we call ourselves a free democracy when we the people can’t vote for the people that make, amend, or repeal our laws rules and regulations. The UK safety and security is now in the hands of the political will of foreign domains – they own us because our Government sold it to them
August 17, 2021
I feel sorry for Col Richerd Kemp, he loved his soldiers.
August 17, 2021
I would have thought that in the 20 years weâve been there, a trench could have been dug around the major cities – filled with Afghan soldiers and machine guns. Some rolls of barbed wire in front and a few drones to monitor anyone approaching.
I think World War I tactics should work well against 50 blokes in pickup trucks.
On a more serious note – what a tragedy the waste of British soldiersâ lives. And the damage done to those who lost limbs.
Blair, Brown, Cameron, Clegg, May and Johnson – do you feel ashamed and guilty? You should.
And so should you, Mr. Redwood. You should have been against our involvement from the start.
August 17, 2021
The last thing the world needed to see – post Brexit – was the appalling spectacle of the SoS Defence Ben Wallace weeping and having a nervous breakdown on prime time TV yesterday.
Having lost in the latest Conservative defence cuts (masquerading as another SDSR) most of our Challenger II tanks, another 10,000 soldiers, two anti-submarine frigates, the entire C130J Hercules heavy lift fleet of 14 aircraft, the entire Hawk fast jet trainer fleet of 81 aircraft, no less than 25 air-superiority Typhoon jets, our remaining minehunters and countless other bits of kit. In the latest Conservative defence cuts (sold to the taxpayer as another SDSR) he has also presided over the wasting of ÂŁbillions on the abandoned Warrior APC upgrade, the Ajax fiasco, the Watchkeeper drone disaster etc etc. I suppose he has reason to cry about it.
It is time Johnson reshuffled his cabinet and sorted these duffers out. I don’t see Taliban leaders weeping on primetime TV
August 18, 2021
Sakara
Defence of the realm?? What with?
August 17, 2021
I’ve just listened to a Tory woman on BBC, pleading it seemed, for virtually all of Afghanistan to be allowed to settle here. No hard questions from the interviewer about why we should do this.
Then the next item was one about how we should not award a state pension increase to match the wage inflation rate.
No lack of money for non white foreigners, but a severe lack of money for English people.
August 17, 2021
The U.K. and US arenât very good at wars – are we?
We lost in Afghanistan. We basically lost in Iraq. We made a mess in Syria. And Libya. We lost in Vietnam. And Korea.
We only won the peace in Ireland by talking to the IRA and are now undermining it with Brexit.
Perhaps both the US and U.K. should just accept that wars arenât our thing? Perhaps all the money we waste on defence should be spent on things that arenât designed to kill people.
August 17, 2021
like Volkswagen cheated emissions killing people?
August 17, 2021
Dear Sir John,
Well thank you very much for giving the people here there say.
I must say that I would rather pick our Government from these people than the vain idiots we have the difference here is that these people have life experience just like you
I thank you sir for being you.
With our withdrawal from the EU , still not out yet, and never will be I am afraid, weâre things ever so bad here , in peace Time ?
August 17, 2021
Developments in US foreign affairs in recent years have been truly alarming.
The weakness displayed by Biden has done untold damage to the reputation of the US amongst its allies who must all be anxiously looking over their shoulders.
The threat from China over Taiwan, already steadily being racheted up by Xi Jinping, has just been increased dramatically by Biden’s action in Afghanistan.
We can all see that the Chinese has been acting ever more aggressively in all parts of the world from Africa to the South China Sea where they are simply ignoring the judgements of the UN over the islands China has taken over.
The West needs to collectively stand up to China. The Sunday Times Insight report on the source of the Pandemic points directly to the Wuhan Lab and gives chapter and verse on the immense efforts that China went to to avoid proper scrutiny. Yet the media have hardly mentioned it !
It is looking increasingly likely that a miscalculation by Xi is inevitable. Seeing Biden’s weak reaction in Afghanistan, Xi may well decide to launch an attack on Taiwan, leaving the West, and particularly Biden with a choice of letting China take over the territory or stand up to China and fight.
These are increasingly dangerous times.
August 17, 2021
The government should ensure that British citizens & taxpayers are now regularly kept informed on our countryâs response in terms of process and true facts & figures, since what is to come will surely impact many of us in different ways. Some of us more than others. Already heard mention of an âambitious & world beatingâ resettlement scheme. Stop all this world beating, virtue signalling stuff. Give protection, on a temporary basis, for those we are obliged to protect until settlement can be shared between ourselves and other nations. But whilst in our care ensure we know who we are assisting and the process and monitoring rigorous though I doubt it will be from what we already hear. Itâs difficult enough to find out the true facts & figures on those already crossing the channel by illegal means, even nationalities no longer generally reported & the public do not like what they are seeing and what they are finding out through their own efforts, feeling increasingly concerned and their voices ignored or classed as bigots or the R word. I believe that many of our politicians & leaders are not fully aware or for that matter very concerned at all about what is really happening on our southern coasts. Iâd bet that if asked, they could not come up with the names of those beaches targeted in recent weeks by those not wishing to be rescued. Greece & its Greek migration minister has already made it clear that their country will not be a gateway for a new wave of refugees. He does not want his nation to face a repeat of the 2015 crisis. Others clearly voice their intention to âprotect themselves against major irregular migratory flowsâŠâ We rely on our government to assure us the British people the same respect and protections.
August 17, 2021
You all should be alot more afraid of the political class than afghan migrants.
August 17, 2021
The best thing any government of any nation can do is support national Israel.
There are promises attached to this in the Bible, you know that book that our ancestors read and believed. Since we turned away from God and didn’t do as we promised for the Jews our nation has been in decline. No dividing of the land. Jesus was a Jew. He is the king of kings.
This abandonment of involvement in mid east affairs by Biden and the perceived weakness of the USA may lead opponents of Israel to believe now could be the time to take them on. They won’t overcome tiny Israel though. Their God who used to be our God will protect them.
August 17, 2021
I’ve just read Andy Owens’ August 7th piece in The Spectator about lessons to be learned from Afghanistan. I commend it to everyone here, although it’s a dispiriting read. He describes an operation in which brave young men and women try their best to achieve conflicting goals in a culture that they cannot comprehend and for which they are woefully ill-prepared.
It seems to me that our diplomats are the ones who are trained to engage with other cultures – in their own languages – and to understand them. Wouldn’t it be better if our diplomats had primacy over our generals in this kind of intervention? The generals would hate it, but it might save the lives of many lieutenants, sergeants and corporals.
August 17, 2021
Politician after politician are shouting from the roof tops that Afghan refugees are welcome âŠ.have anybody asked the people
The Taliban today declared an amnesty for all government and allied military workers, therefore nobody needs to leave or become a refugee unless the Taliban become nasty
August 17, 2021
Afghanistan invasions have ALWAYS ended in abject failure.
No lessons learnt.
Iraq was unjustifiable, no WMD, Blair to blame. Libya/Syria same old.
These unacceptable political decisions wasted British lives and maimed even more of our brave armed forces.
It’s called the Ministry of DEFENCE, so lets focus on that, defence of the realm.
Political reform is needed to ensure the grounds for UK troop deployment, boots on the ground and other engagements meet specific criteria and objectives, overseen by Parliamentary procedure – not bloody egotistical whimsies.
August 17, 2021
PS: Can we please have a new Covid article to comment on, thank you.
We are ignoring immunity from naturally catching Covid in key aspects, our C19 statistics and our vaccinations policy, where everyone should be jabbed irrespective of having had Covid.
Other countries are using these natural immunity events to give travel passes & avoid unnecessary jabbing and cost. Why is it so difficult to get successive goverments to adopt best practice from worldwide sources? The not invented here mentality!