Housing

It has become a popular question to ask those who recommend welcoming more migrants to the UK for whatever good reason if they will open up one of their spare rooms at home to provide accommodation. I guess it can make good tv to see the responder hunt for some plausible reason why they themselves would not take such action.

It is however a diversion from the big issues that underlie the problem. It is  no  solution to a refugee family to find cramped accommodation in someone else’s home. It is  not even a good long term answer for a single economic migrant, as they too need some independence and opportunity to cease to be single if they wish. The British dream is to own your own home with your own front door and with reasonable freedom over how you organise it and what you do in it. The British reality for most  with no capital and lower incomes is to rent a property which also affords the independence of your own front door, independent kitchen and bathroom facilities and sufficient sleeping accommodation.

We are  not looking to downgrade expectations, or to seek to place more families  in permanent accommodation where they need to share kitchens and bathrooms or lack the space they need to sleep and live in their homes.

Given this we need also to accept there are limits to how much accommodation we can provide and therefore to how many migrants it is possible to accept in any given year. Whilst housing is the main constraint, we also need to think about the provision of other public services. There are limits in the shorter term to how many school places are available, how much NHS capacity there is, how much roadspace and how much water and electricity can be delivered from the existing wires and pipes. When Wokingham was experiencing really fast growth some years ago there were problems getting the water and power system to catch up with rocketing demand. It was one of the arguments I was able to use to move us down then  from a fast growth area.

In order to get housing  supply and demand into better balance we do need to consider the pace of increases in demand as well as supply. Government tends to look at net migration figures, but in any individual place it may be the gross figure that matters, as people leaving the country do not necessarily free up both the number and location of properties needed for the new people arriving.

185 Comments

  1. Everhopeful
    September 1, 2021

    Very interesting.
    It seems that saner MPs are at last realising that you can not change the laws of physics.
    There is an old saying about 6 bananas in a room. Put 7 people in there and no one gets a whole banana!
    Maybe the heat is reaching the leafy avenues?
    A famous retired MP was recently put on the spot
would she take in a refugee. In principal 
yes
but she had safety considerations. A veritable elephant trap and I would say, not a good answer.
    But then, no one can tell the truth nowadays.

    1. Everhopeful
      September 1, 2021

      **IN PRINCIPLE

    2. Lifelogic
      September 1, 2021

      Ann Widecombe and as usual a very sensible answer from her. She went on to say she would feel happier with a married couple not a single man. Ann was one of the very sensible tiny handful of MP who did not vote for the insanity of Ed Milliband’s Climate Change Act. Can we clone her and Norman Tebbit please – before they get too old.

    3. harry again
      September 6, 2021

      Another government promise broken…migration.
      We don’t want any of these people here especially those of the Death Kult variety.
      We spent ÂŁmillions and blood on Afghanistan and they threw it all away . Not prepared to fight for their liberty.
      They owe us, not vice versa.
      We can’t even house our own people never mind a bunch of foriegn scroungers/invaders.

  2. Mark B
    September 1, 2021

    Good morning.

    I see my comment from yesterday is still in moderation. The usual reason I am sure – ie Too close to the TRUTH !

    —-

    Whilst housing is the main constraint, we also need to think about the provision of other public services.

    I have been saying this for many years now – You cannot have MASS IMMIGRATION and free at the point of service State Services as the former will always overwhelm the latter. The very fact that no one in government, probably because they can afford to circumvent the problems they cause, seems to be blissfully unaware of.

    I do not want those who want MASS IMMIGRATION to house said immigrants as these people are a minority. What I would like to see is an honest and open debate and, a contractual agreement by those who advocate such population rises to pay a special tax on both their earning and property. ie Let them pay for their values that they wish to thrust upon the rest of us !

    I have no problem with immigrants coming to my country and settling here. What I have a problem with is their automatic right to access to FREE schools, and FREE healthcare. And for them it is FREE because they have not contributed enough to pay for such. They should not be allowed to enter unless they have suitable medical insurance, something other countries seem to have will no problems, and a all other costs met either in part or in whole by their employer. This would show the TRUE cost of employing, for example, foreign drivers over British ones. Something I believe our kind host has previously alluded to elsewhere.

    I would also like us to remove ourselves from various immigration and asylum agreements, especially the one signed by Theresa May MP when she was PM. She had no right to sign such an agreement as she had not sought a mandate from the British people to do so.

    Reply Your pieces get delayed because they are long. I don’t always have time to read them so I am not delaying for their content.

    1. J Bush
      September 1, 2021

      +1 Well said

    2. Lester_Cynic
      September 1, 2021

      Mark B

      My comment has completely disappeared, what a surprise

      1. Mark B
        September 2, 2021

        I know I read your comment below.

        Step 1 – Keep posting

        Step 2 – Always, in a forthright but polite way, state that your post(s) are being held in moderation / deleted.

        Step 3 – Ask why they are being held in moderation and / or deleted.

        Step 4 – State, if relevant, what site rules it did not infringe.

        Step 6 – Go back to Step 1 and repeat.

    3. bigneil - newer comp
      September 1, 2021

      reply to reply
      But some people get four posts on – one after the other – then further posts during the day ( EdM )? – – and several others get multiple posts during the day as well.

      1. Mark B
        September 2, 2021

        I realised that ‘just’ after I clicked the Post Comment Button. But hey, it is SJR’s site. The sad thing is I offered other readers a new dimension on this. Something I thought important and worth talking about. Our kind host obviously did not want anyone to read it less it frighten the children.

        Reply Those who complain about censorship should understand I do not censor views or criticisms I disagree with. I do censor extreme language, repetitive conspiracy theories and allegations against individuals. It is easy getting a sensible statement of an alternative or anti establishment view here published. Today I have a rash of nasty comments between different contributors which would not help the debate.

    4. Mark B
      September 1, 2021

      Reply to Reply

      It was not that long and you have now deleted it. As I said in the piece, I appreciate that you cannot say things we say due to your position but, if these things are true and are widely commented on, they should not be seen as taboo !

      I raised points that others here and elsewhere have not. Points that we really need to think about and discuss.

    5. wanderer
      September 2, 2021

      I moved to Austria this year. No question that I have to prove I have medical insurance, otherwise after 3 months I would have had to leave. I’ve taken up a cycle courier job simply in order to be covered by the state insurance scheme. I haven’t contributed to Austria’s national insurance in the past (I’ve contributed 30 years NI in the UK though), so from the Austrian viewpoint it’s probably not a good deal. But at least their system forces me to get a job here, or clear off.

      1. a-tracy
        September 2, 2021

        Did you get a GHIC (Global Health Insurance Card) card? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44850972

        These EU and EEA countries just bill back the British NHS anyway, it is only our stupid country that doesn’t.

  3. Everhopeful
    September 1, 2021

    I have read that our money will be used to provide much larger houses, to accommodate incoming large families.
    How very generous considering that my parents’ generation ( having won WW2 for the country), were commanded to have only 2.4 children. Never mind the previous war that decimated the huge families previously required for agriculture.
    What pieces of work our politicians are.
    So good at sneakily removing our wealth and using it to destroy us!

    1. Everhopeful
      September 1, 2021

      A better question to ask the woke liberals/MPs.
      “Would you go out and invite a local homeless person to live in your home?
      You could ask that John Smith. You know who I mean. He sleeps on a bench in the park when the authorities allow him to. He used to be in the army.”

      1. Mark B
        September 1, 2021

        From what I have seen they do not need to go to a park, they are either right opposite the HoP or very near to it. Doorways, bridges, tunnels, they are all there literally within sight of Westminster. It’s shameful !

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      I’ve been told there are native British families who are in unsuitable accommodation and have been told the wait for a council house will be years. The tents left behind at festivals will be given to homeless charities. How lovely for those on our streets while the authorities bend over backwards finding homes for foreigners. There is something wrong with the establishment of the UK. It stinks. How dare they house foreigners before our own people.

      1. Everhopeful
        September 1, 2021

        I heard today that ( at least at the moment) a council near here is saying “NO”.
        No chance, they say when they have local people on a huge waiting list for council houses.
        A little bit of sense for a change!

        1. Fedupsoutherner
          September 1, 2021

          Everhopeful Well done to them.

        2. Timaction
          September 2, 2021

          About time. Perhaps they got rid of a woke/pc leader!

    3. J Bush
      September 1, 2021

      When Dad was demobbed after WW2, Mum left the land army, but they had nowhere to live so they and others squatted in empty army barracks. Mum considered herself lucky that she got a hut closest to the communal tap and separated it into ‘rooms’ by hanging blankets from the beams! They were there for about 3 years.

      1. Mark B
        September 1, 2021

        Some even lucker ones got a ‘prefab’ hut and an outside toilet.

  4. J Bush
    September 1, 2021

    I would really like to hear that the mouthy hand wringing current and previous politicians who want more immigrants have publicly confirmed they will provide/give up one of their properties to a family of immigrants and pay for their upkeep, education and health costs, so they are not to be a burden on the taxpayer and that includes the cost of 24/7 police protection.

    For those who have estates, to give up some of the land and build housing for them. I would dearly like to see these people live in close proximity with a couple of migrant families, all in the name of welcoming multiculturalism of course.

    Perhaps we could have a referendum on this. 🙂

    Until then, I will continue to oppose uncontrolled immigration and open borders to our homeland.

    1. MiC
      September 2, 2021

      All legal immigration into the UK is already controlled.

      Anyone here illegally – that is, in law, not just according to your opinion – will be deported if detected.

      You might disagree about the criterions of control, and that is a political matter for you to pursue.

      1. NickC
        September 3, 2021

        Controlled legal immigration? – controlled by who?
        Illegal immigrants are deported? – sure they are!
        I do disagree about the control criteria – that’s the point of making comments here and elsewhere, and writing to newspapers and to my MP.

        We’re full up, Martin.

        1. MiC
          September 3, 2021

          You certainly are.

  5. J Bush
    September 1, 2021

    I would like to see an end to all the second homes, which are funded by the taxpayer. In its place should be something similar to students Hall of Residence for politicians. Where possible, all the current second homes could be converted into flats for the immigrants they want here. That would probably house up to a 1000 migrant families.

    Sadly, I doubt the politicians would agree to this, all in the name of altruism of course.

    1. J Bush
      September 1, 2021

      They should also have the same away from home costs as the rest of the population. Last time I had a contract that required me to work away from home, I had to pay my own hotel costs out of my already taxed income and only got a tax free daily allowance of less than ÂŁ2 a day. Granted this was over a decade ago, but I doubt this principle has changed much for the plebs.

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      J Bush. Yeah or just a notion of superiority over us plebs.

  6. Lifelogic
    September 1, 2021

    Indeed if you do not have the money you either rent the house or you rent (i.e. borrow) the money to buy a property. But the dire fake Conservatives have attacked both. Rental with endless attacks such as landlord licensing, safety certificates, extra stamp duty up to 15%, restrictions on agents charges, restrictions on evictions and legal actions for rent. Worse of all the appalling idiot Osborne decided to tax landlords on profit they have not even made giving landlords top tax rates than can exceed 100% so this hardly encourages supply. Hardly sustainable the Tories are effectively at war with landlords.

    For purchases we have up to 13% stamp duty. It used to be 1% under Thatcher. So little point in buying a small flat, then a larger flat, then a house as people used to do. Only sensible to buy if you will stay for several years. This damages job mobility and the supply. The main problem however is over restrictive planning rules and over the top “green crap” building regulations than pushes up building costs and often gives worse houses too this looks like getting even worse too.

    1. Lifelogic
      September 1, 2021

      Tax to death (and very anti-business and entrepreneurs) Sunak has just put stamp duty up by up to ÂŁ15k too. This on top of his 90% cut to entrepreneurs relief and IR35 and his endless borrowing. This so the lefty PPE fool can piss even more away on HS2, restaurant dinners for some, the net zero lunacy, test and trace, vaccine passports, the dire NHS rationing system and other such bottomless pits delivering little or nothing of any value.

      1. Lifelogic
        September 1, 2021

        So we have Amanda Pritchard taking over from Simon Stevens as CEO of the hopelessly inefficient death causing, state virtual monopoly that is the NHS. I wish her well it is a big job and she will be expected to do it with her hands tied behind her back by politicians.

        I see she has a degree in modern history Oxon. Oh well cannot be worse the three dire PPE chaps who ran it so appallingly & for so long can she? The ones who oversaw the appallingly inept pandemic planning and then dumped Covid into so very many care homes and who locked the country down for so long causing such huge net harm to both health and the economy. Messrs Jeremy Hunt, Matt Hancock & Sir Simon Stevens who failed so appallingly.

        But will she even attempt to do what is so obviously needed? Will Javid and the medical unions allow her to do sensible things even if she wants to? Javid is yet another rather unimpressive politics and economics person (Exeter).

        1. Fedupsoutherner
          September 1, 2021

          Indeed L/L. Our NHS is a joke. Where are our GPS? From what we can see of two that live near us, sitting on their butts at home while ordinary people are out working.

          1. glen cullen
            September 1, 2021

            Our GPs are busy counting their ÂŁ100,000+ salaries, busy on their second jobs on saga, private work, university teaching, other committees and TV

    2. Everhopeful
      September 1, 2021

      I always wonder if we plebs were purposely tempted into buy to let.
      So we bought a house, maybe thinking in terms of pension, the future etc.
      Made use of any tax breaks or whatever.
      Did the place up. Improved the housing stock. Built houses perhaps?
      Rented out.
      Then along came the govt. to tax and regulate and make the whole business much less attractive.
      And THEN as if by magic the banks are interested.
      Wow!

  7. Peter
    September 1, 2021

    The big banks are now looking to buy up housing stock for rent.

    Maybe owner occupation will become a thing of the past? You will own nothing you will be happy.

    1. Mitchel
      September 1, 2021

      Brave New World!

  8. SM
    September 1, 2021

    I read a lot of what appears to be knee-jerk negative reactions to rented property, yet I’ve always thought that such housing provision should be encouraged.

    Like many couples, we spent the first 2 years of our marriage in a rented flat without the responsibility of mortgages and maintenance, and with the freedom to consider carefully where we wanted to put down roots, and how we could easily travel to work. Others will need a home for a limited period, perhaps while working out a contract, or because of family care requirements, or indeed because they are refugees/migrants.

    Oh, and in case I’m assailed by hysterical comments about Peter Rachman-style landlords, I know of many tenants who have thought it’s perfectly ok to trash property precisely because it does not belong to them.

    1. Everhopeful
      September 1, 2021

      Not a bundle of laughs living next door to the trashing inclined renters.
      More like a river of tears
I can assure you of that!

      1. MiC
        September 2, 2021

        No, I know.

        I think that any change from owner occupation to rent-for-profit should require a Change Of Use planning application.

        It is a business purpose after all.

        1. Micky Taking
          September 2, 2021

          It might be to part finance Care Home costs for a relative, and how many do you suppose ‘rent-for-loss’?

          1. MiC
            September 2, 2021

            Pearl – onker

        2. Peter2
          September 3, 2021

          It is a simple trade between two parties.
          Would you require that restriction for every business trade MiC?

    2. Lifelogic
      September 1, 2021

      Not just wreck the property but often stay there for months on end paying no rent – encouraged so to do by the appallingly unfair and slow legal system in the UK.

  9. Sharon
    September 1, 2021

    Aside from everything else, I’ve noticed that any single dwelling that is re-built or converted always emerges as flats; or 3/4/5 bedroom houses.

    Why is it assumed people want to live in a flat? And also, following years of dispute over builders trying to erect high buildings, I notice that two tall blocks of flats have appeared.

    Fifty years ago, a lot of single dwellings began to be re-built or be converted into flats. Our Conservative council has been LibDem ever since. Proof that the type of dwelling changes an area. The type of shops in the nearest town has gone ‘down market’ too.

    With density of housing goes space too
 we are really too densely populated in more and more areas. This cannot continue.

  10. Ian Wragg
    September 1, 2021

    Yesterday on our local station they were asking for 4 and above bedroomed property to house the Afghan refugees. The local MP who is the government housing minister said it is fully funded by the government.
    This is a government who can’t afford social care or to rehome veterans.
    Just when are you going to put the UK nationals first.
    Disgusting.

    1. MFD
      September 1, 2021

      +1

  11. Dave Andrews
    September 1, 2021

    The UK isn’t some kind of virgin territory, able to accommodate new settlement. This is a country that doesn’t produce enough food to feed the population already here. In the south of England, there are plans to install desalination plants because the rainwater systems can’t cope with demand.
    All immigration needs to stop completely, to allow the UK population to achieve manageable numbers in time. I know there is great demand from failed states to empty their population onto our shores, but it’s impossible for the UK to absorb perhaps several billion people who have a tough life where they are. The message should be that they should work to improve their own countries, be brave about it if necessary, rather than run away.

  12. John Miller
    September 1, 2021

    Anecdotally, the people I find who most object to unfettered illegal immigration are legal immigrants!

    We, as a country, have to decide on our approach to immigration. White people will become a minority in a few decades, due to immigrants breeding more. Do we want more economic immigrants? I can’t see how that works in the long term.

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      Join the club John. Most of us can’t see the logic.

    2. J Bush
      September 1, 2021

      +1
      I fully agree, my sister-in-laws family came here over 50 years ago and she is livid over what the politicians are doing.

  13. Nig l
    September 1, 2021

    Also known as meeting your promises re immigration. Unfortunately your hubris doesn’t match actualitee with zero, I will repeat zero, illegals repatriated this year. No amount of parliamentary fiddling can make up for this ineptitude.

    You are creating free ports where goods are treated as ‘outside’ the country, interesting how quiet the government is that 20 plus of Truss’s trumpeted trade deals do not allow for goods made in these ‘tax free’ areas.

    When you go to an airport and through passport control, you go airside, effectively leaving the U.K. HMG needs to create a Freeport/airside housing area on a disused ex industrial site where illegals would be housed but that wouldn’t be considered U.K. mainland keeping them stateless.

    And in other news, we read teaching unions are gearing up to use Covid as a response to disrupt education just reiterating as if we didn’t know that they run it and not the government with the woeful Williamson supposedly in charge and talking of weak, Boris’s complete but unsurprising failure to give a lead on home working, again civil servants ignoring the requests of their employers, is giving out mixed (understatement) messages costing the city centres etc billions.

    In the latest spending round the Treasury must insist on headcount expanded to make up for loss of output through working from home, is returned to pre pandemic levels.

    The problem of course is that Ministers will appeal to Boris who will without doubt, crumble.

  14. Old Albion
    September 1, 2021

    Then get your Gov. to do something about the continuous flow of immigration, both legal and illegal. Like stopping it perhaps!

    1. Mark B
      September 1, 2021

      They can’t. Or more like, won’t !!

  15. Cheshire Girl
    September 1, 2021

    There was a report on the News last night, about our shortage of housing, and how we are going to build thousands of houses on the Green Belt, near Harlow, I think it was.

    In my opinion ,it is madness to take in thousands of Refugees, when it is said we are chronically short of houses for people already here.

    How can our Politicians look people in the eye, who have been on Council housing lists for years, and justify this? Not only this, but lecture us about our ‘moral responsibility’ to the
    rest of the world. Most of them who do this, live many miles away from the overcrowded areas where refugees tend to cluster.
    Such hypocrisy!

    1. Paul Cuthbertson
      September 1, 2021

      CG -You still watch and believe the “news”??? Remember “news” is not what happens, it is what a fairly small group of people decide is the news.
      Your second paragraph is spot-on as we are an over populated nation as it is. Does any one liste, NO. It is all part of the globalist plan.

  16. MiC
    September 1, 2021

    John mentions road space.

    When I’m driving, I always remind myself that there were millions of Leave voters, and that a fair number have driving licences.

    It’s best to give other cars plenty of room, just in case.

    1. No Longer Anonymous
      September 1, 2021

      Ah. So you’re the one with the tailback behind you.

    2. MiC
      September 1, 2021

      No, however I do assume that there may be a fair number on the roads who approve of abandoning the Precautionary Principle, on which the Highway Code rests absolutely.

      I always make Due Progress, and use the roads efficiently. I do not, for instance, drive parallel with other vehicles and form a mobile road block in average speed check areas.

      1. NickC
        September 1, 2021

        Is that the same “precautionary principle” you abandoned when you took an experimental vaccine, or when you agitated for ever harsher unproved lockdowns, or when you deny the coming ice-age, Martin? It certainly must be the “precautionary principle” you abandon when you advocate socialism – proven to lead to the gulags (or worse) time and time again.

        1. MiC
          September 1, 2021

          Understand what it is, eh? You clearly don’t.

          1. NickC
            September 3, 2021

            You, too, Martin.

      2. No Longer Anonymous
        September 1, 2021

        Ah. Me too and I voted Brexit.

    3. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      MIC. Oh, so funny. Not.

    4. Micky Taking
      September 1, 2021

      seems like you need a series of tests in order to keep a driving licence.
      Vision, reaction time, concentration, coordination, presecution complex, hate complex, safe distance driving, highway code rules…

  17. Micky Taking
    September 1, 2021

    ‘It was one of the arguments I was able to use to move us down then from a fast growth area.’
    OMG…..what on earth would it have been like here, if you had failed?

  18. Narrow Shoulders
    September 1, 2021

    Yesterday it was announced that ÂŁ3.6 billion of funding would be used to build 29,000 new homes in London, nearly 17,000 of which would be Council Houses. They have already brought in 20,000 Afghani immigrants who will fill these houses to be built over the next five years because for some reason they get fist claim ahead of those already on the list. Nothing demonstrates that we are full more than this statistic. Our schools are already full and we couldn’t get a doctor appointment before the pandemic, let alone now.

    Stop the flow.

    On a related point, BBC London News was interviewing the many volunteers to sort donations to our new benefit claimants from Afghanistan last night and one councillor said that they needed interpreters. Forgive my misunderstanding but if these “refugees” that we accepted were allowed to come here because they were in danger through working for us, shouldn’t at least one person in each household speak English?

    No tax paid for translators we have been sold a pup.

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      N/S. And they wonder why we resent all these immigrants. Why do they get treated better than us who have paid for it all and then get put to the bottom of the pile or disagreed like rubbish. John, please tell Boris and his dire cabinet just what we think of them.

      1. bigneil - newer comp
        September 1, 2021

        FUS – the cabinet don’t give a **** what we think of them. Boris said The Great Reset – our eradication is part of it. Boris is expecting power and wealth. I hope he gets what he deserves.

    2. Dave Andrews
      September 1, 2021

      Plenty of spare housing in London without building any more. Many are owned by overseas investors, so they can be left empty and appreciate in value for later sale.
      Time for that law that says you have to be a natural UK person (barring particular exceptions) in order to own residential property. Removing a competitor in the housing market and making more property available for occupation ought to make them more affordable for people that need a home.

  19. MiC
    September 1, 2021

    We rightly mock services such as rail which fail due to “the wrong kind of snow”.

    However, John suggests that it is perfectly excusable for public services to fail across the board if there should be “the wrong kind of public”.

    1. NickC
      September 1, 2021

      Like Leave voters being “the wrong kind of public”, Martin?

      1. MiC
        September 1, 2021

        No, I don’t think that John implied that at all.

        1. NickC
          September 3, 2021

          But you do, Martin.

          1. MiC
            September 4, 2021

            Oh, that was the bit that I wrote in virtual Invisible Ink, was it, Nick?

  20. formula57
    September 1, 2021

    Well said. Oh that your words would inform Government actions.

  21. Newmania
    September 1, 2021

    Blaming immigrants for high housing costs was one of the main Brexit lines ( the n is silent ) .In 1963 the UK population was 53.5m it is now 68.3 m, hardly a cause for panic . In that 58 year period while house building rates have varied there are now significantly more houses per person than there were in 1963.
    In 1963 a house could be purchased at an average price of ÂŁ3160 when a good annual salary was ÂŁ1000. The ratio is now more like 10, certainly in high wage areas. The increase has been caused primarily by smaller households, longer life greater access to credit and capital , and lower interest rates .
    In fact Housing costs were corrected substantially after 2008 and are still less ( per ÂŁsalary) then they were 10 years ago throughout which period John Redwood showed zero interest in the difficulty of buying .

    So why the sudden concern? Not hard; this Government is terrified of Brexit recession , we see the rising costs and shortages , we are yet to see the macro economic consequences . One lever they have pulled is to let the building industry destroy countless beautiful rural scenes with cheap nasty developments.
    This is understandably unpopular and so …They blame immigrants

    …. plus ça change, plus c’est la mĂȘme chose…..

    Reply More lies and abuse from you. I have always been concerned about access to home ownership and have always supported controlled immigration.

    1. MiC
      September 1, 2021

      I note John’s reply, and whilst one can always challenge some of the quantitative claims made, I can’t find anything that could reasonably be called “abuse” in the original post, nor any evidence that any fallacy was stated knowingly with the intention to mislead, that is, a “lie”.

      Actually, I think that the 1963 house price quoted is rather high, though I did not grow up in the Home Counties.

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        September 1, 2021

        MiC

        Geronimo the Alpaca was exterminated yesterday.

        How do you reconcile that with the Tories ‘seeking popularity’ by rescuing Afghan hounds ?

        (RIP Geronimo.)

        1. MiC
          September 1, 2021

          I was personally sad for the gentle, innocent animal.

          However, it was done for veterinary hygiene reasons, and for no other, quite self-evidently.

          1. No Longer Anonymous
            September 1, 2021

            Ah. Popularity among Brexitists wasn’t the main concern then.

          2. MiC
            September 2, 2021

            There aren’t anything like as many alpaca fanatics in the UK as there are dog and cat obsessed fruitcakes, so what would be the point?

      2. dixie
        September 1, 2021

        maniac made an absolutist statement that our host “showed zero interest in the difficulty of buying”. That accusation requires evidence which maniac does not have and probably zero interest in finding out. Without providing that evidence claiming such certainty is a lie, a misrepresentation. And doing it on a platform our host provides at his own expense is abusive if not downright bad manners.
        I am not at all surprised you chose to claim there is no such perfidy, you do it all the time in your spoutings.

        1. MiC
          September 1, 2021

          Ah, so you didn’t like the literary style, then…

      3. Micky Taking
        September 1, 2021

        Well newmania is pretty correct on house price and salaries. So as you didn’t grow up in the Home Counties why would you contest the facts?.

      4. a-tracy
        September 2, 2021

        Calling people that believe unfettered immigration causes housing shortages especially in social houses liars is abusive I feel. “Blaming immigrants for high housing costs was one of the main Brexit lines ( the n is silent ).” abuse = “use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse” – Newmania is calling people with genuine concerns ‘liars’ to bad effect.

        Newmania, the Census statistics from 2021 aren’t released until March/April next year but who believes a word the ONS release now when they underestimated the numbers that would actually apply for settled status? The government knows better how many people were claiming all sorts of furlough benefits and were earning through covid including all the homeless they found rooms for at the height of the crisis, they should just be honest and tell people the numbers.

        It is reported there were 114,562 excess deaths, if only half of them had their own or social properties there would be over 50,000 excess houses where have they gone? Just how many of the 114,562 excess people that died lived solo or in social housing, we know retirement one bed and two-bed complexes have exploded in numbers in recent years.

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      September 1, 2021

      Don’t forget couples being able to buy a house on money borrowed on two wages. It used to be the case that 1 & 1/3 salary was key. This has forced mums to work full time (or be accommodated at work so their childless colleagues pick up the slack.) But to say that migration has not played a part in key areas of employment is ridiculous. It doesn’t take twice as many people to double house prices – it only takes one extra bidder with enough resources to do it.

    3. NickC
      September 1, 2021

      Newmania, Your own figures demonstrate the reason for high house prices currently – much higher population leading to excess demand, or shortage of supply. Since England is overcrowded (it cannot feed itself in an emergency) it is demand that is excessive.

      There are (officially) over 9 million people here who were not born in the UK. The real figure (see recent admissions of miscounting EU immigrants) is probably in excess of 15 million. If those people were not here, there would probably be an excess of housing available. It’s just numbers and common sense.

  22. Sakara Gold
    September 1, 2021

    Funny that this Conservative government and the liberal chattering classes are now falling over themselves to provide housing for thousands of economic migrants, translators and new commonwealth relatives of those already here. But not in my back yard of course!

    This when indigenous white working class people are pushed further and further down the housing waiting list in response, have to send their kids to leaky local schools with class sizes of 35+, are turned away from their GP surgeries due to capacity contraints and have to take their campsite staycations on sewage-contaminated beaches.

    Britain owes nobody a debt of gratitude for anything in Afghan. The translators etc were well paid and housed for their efforts. They knew the risks of collaborating. The Talibs are now successfully hunting them down and beheading them because some bright FO spark (doubtess Latin-speaking) left a list of them on his desk before they all ran out of the Kabul Embassy to catch the first flight out to Brize Norton.

    No wonder Raab is being advised to consider his position while Johnson takes a break from the latest government cock-up by running away himself on a late-summer break to the West Country.

    1. turboterrier
      September 1, 2021

      Sakara Gold
      Debt of gratitude

      Well said. These people did not have a gun held to their head, and were well paid and serviced for their services to our troops. The minute there was talk about the removal of all the coalition forces they should have acted independently and acted accordingly for their and their families safety. Never any mention about how much they received in wages and payments in kind.
      Like all those in Europe when the allies drove out the Germans the residents extracted a high price from the collaborators. Nothing new here. So you sow, so you reap.

  23. George Brooks.
    September 1, 2021

    For the last two and a half decades we have been overloading the facilities of this country by accepting too many immigrants. Many of them come from the Middle East and Asia where they have been living in over crowded ghettos only to recreate them here in our inner cities.

    We are killing this country with kindness and we will run out of power, water, and decent living accommodation if we don’t put a stop to importing thousands every month. Until we get a realistic and affordable plan, life for all of us will get worse not better.

    Every media outlet is headlining the Afghan situation as a US and UK defeat urging both countries to open the immigration flood gates. Not a single mention that a huge Afghan army evaporated almost overnight and their politic leaders fled the country.

    We have spent years and billions getting nowhere and we will go on doing so until we toughen up on immigration and put together a realistic plan for housing and related facilities. Stop driving this country under.

    1. Mitchel
      September 1, 2021

      The freezing of Afghan government assets by the USA can only promote a further exodus-this was one of the reasons the Russians abstained on the UN Security Council resolution at the weekend.

  24. Iain Moore
    September 1, 2021

    I find your last paragraph just a little bit complacent …’we need to’ …it has gone way past the niceties of need to banging the table and demanding why the heck aren’t they? The Una-party in Westminster has been cramming people into our country for decades without the resources to accommodate them. They have decided it is easier to concrete over England than make any effort to stop the flood of people coming here, in fact our worst enemy is the British establishment, that this makes a lie of their Green zealotry , for how can you have concerns about sustainability when you are insanely cramming people into the country? Of course they don’t care, for they can be sure their mates in the MSM won’t ask them any difficult questions.

    I sometimes wonder if I have woken up into clown world, one moment we hear the Government pondering taxing disposable nappies for environmental reasons , and boasting about E10 petrol, next bringing thousands, though probably be more like 100s of thousands of Afghans into the country. The petrol gesture they say will be the equivalent to taking 300k cars off the road, i.e about years immigration intake. Brilliant!

    How is it right that that the Government is putting Afghans at the head of the housing queue in front of British people who have been waiting years for some accommodation? Just another indication that the British state hates its own people.

  25. Denis Cooper
    September 1, 2021

    https://euobserver.com/world/152759

    “EU prepares to keep out Afghan refugees”

    “EU countries are preparing to stop Afghan refugees from potentially entering en masse, amid fears of a repeat of the 2015 migration crisis, when 1 million people came to Europe.

    “The EU and its member states stand determined to act jointly to prevent the recurrence of uncontrolled, large-scale, illegal migration movements faced in the past,” EU home-affairs ministers will agree to say after an emergency meeting in Brussels on Tuesday (31 August), according to a draft statement, dated 28 August, and seen by EUobserver.”

    1. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      Don’t worry Denis. Boris will let them in.

    2. Mike Wilson
      September 1, 2021

      Perhaps we should join.

  26. turboterrier
    September 1, 2021

    Sir John
    Here we go again our top politicians all jumping on the band wagon about the country taking 20k plus people. Very noble and one could argue also very moral but, always a but, as usual all pissing before they have their flies open. The biggest restriction to taking these people is not money, that it seems can be conjured up at the press of a button, it is as you have highlighted, infrastructure, real infrastructure that will make the task of accomodating these people less traumatic on our existing residents and councils.
    Roads, transport, housing and its maintenance, schools, dentist, doctors, emergency services, hospitals and consultants, social services, translators, language teachers, civil and public services checking on suitability and security issues to name but a few. Already the taxpayer is paying for all the other immigrants illegal and otherwise, yet all the time our people see beggars, homeless persons, PTSD ex service people sleeping rough on our streets.
    Who has done all the logistics for such a big operation or is it still on the back of the fag packet? On the Web there was shown a big tented city in Saudi all kitted out with mod cons, if not fake news would the country not done better to have done a deal with them to accommodate these people and to give the new rulers of Afghanistan a chance to show that suitable changes have been made to the way they are governing which a lot of these people might find acceptable to consider returning home to their families.
    Things have got to change, this country cannot keep on at the drop of a hat keep taking every man and his family without first ensuring we have the infrastructure fuÄșly in place to provide accomodation .

    1. Bryan Ingleby
      September 1, 2021

      Excellent piece and well written.
      Your second sentence? ROFL

  27. beresford
    September 1, 2021

    Another good question is whether the interviewee intends to live in an area transformed by the mass immigration they advocate. Recently the Guardian ran a feature recommending places for its readers to move to, and they were all whiter-than-white. As for housing, it is the intent of the Great Reset that it will all be owned by big corporations and rented to the hoi polloi.

  28. Christine
    September 1, 2021

    This government is killing off the private rental market by the policies it has introduced. The introduction of the 3% extra stamp duty on second homes, the additional electric safety check certificates, unable to evict tenants who stop paying their rent, changes to the tax that can be claimed back on mortgages and house contents. Many landlords in my area have sold up and there is now an acute shortage of rental properties which has pushed up prices. We now see dozens of people fighting for each property that comes on the market.

    When will the government and councils reach the same concussion the majority of the public reached years ago which is that net immigration into this country is far too high?

    There is only one viable solution which is to reduce the size of the population to match the housing and services available.

    1. Lifelogic
      September 1, 2021

      +1, more houses or fewer people – nothing else will solve the situation. If you want more houses you must relax and speed up planning and the OTT expensive green crap building regs., etc. If you want fewer people you have to reduce immigration and/or discourage new babies. You choose it is not rocket science.

      1. NickC
        September 3, 2021

        Just so, Lifelogic.

  29. Bryan Harris
    September 1, 2021

    Of all the irrationalities the British public, (Let’s not forget the European ones), have to suffer, this is one of the worst.
    There will never be adequate homes or infrastructure if we continually import more people than we have room for – The problem of housing shortages will go on forever more. Certainly there will always be reasons why refugees need somewhere to live.

    In a more logical world, we would insist that Arab countries took their brothers and sisters in – Why does this problem always become ours?
    Can anyone tell me why safe decent homes cannot be built for refugees, somewhere in the Middle East – A safe haven away from the fighting? It would be a darn sight less expensive and troublesome.

    So why do we continue to hurtourselves for no good reason?

    1. SM
      September 1, 2021

      +1

  30. Denis Cooper
    September 1, 2021

    This sort of thing is what could easily happen along the EU’s border with Northern Ireland without Boris Johnson’s protocol in place to prevent a “hard border”, according to those like Sinn Fein who support his revised protocol as a means to promote a unified state on the island of Ireland.

    https://euobserver.com/tickers/152776

    “Poland declares migrant ’emergency’ on Belarus border”

    “Poland has declared a state of emergency in a 3km-zone covering 183 towns along its border with Belarus, giving security forces more powers to keep out migrants being pushed across by Belarusian authorities in retaliation at EU sanctions. “No trips, no happenings, and demonstrations will be able to be organised along this border zone,” Polish interior minister Mariusz KamiƄski said, referring to previous visits by pro-refugee NGOs to the area.”

  31. ukretired123
    September 1, 2021

    This articulates what all politicians and church leaders etc should base their thinking on as they want their virtue signalling credits but leave it to others to sort out their mega debits paid by the overtaxed population.

    1. ukretired123
      September 1, 2021

      Forgot to add the adverse impact on the already supply shortages of food and other goods too! Who would have thought that out?

    2. Lifelogic
      September 1, 2021

      +1

  32. No Longer Anonymous
    September 1, 2021

    The point of the question “Will you be offering your spare room ?” is because so few of those supporting mass immigration suffer from it themselves.

    Rarely does it affect their own area, rarely does it affect their own children’s schooling and rarely does it affect their private healthcare. It does, however, get them cheaper cleaners and nannies.

    We have given up on the debate on stopping mass immigration. 11 years of Tory rule have seen it increase at rates beyond belief.

    No.

    All that’s to be debated now is that the middle and upper middle classes start experiencing its full effects for themselves.

    1. NickC
      September 3, 2021

      No Longer, The odd thing is that people in better off areas complain about the excessive building ruining their town or village (they’re right) but are unaware it is caused by the massive numbers of migrants in the last 20 years.

      They don’t see these migrants buying the new houses in their neck of the woods, so to them it’s not migrants (I have heard them actually say this).

      They are unaware that new migrants go for the cheap inner city housing, displacing poor natives to the seedier suburbs, who displace the slightly better off, and so on, out to the leafy villages.

  33. No Longer Anonymous
    September 1, 2021

    Grammar schools were abolished for working class people so why can’t private schools be abolished so that richer people have a care about such things ?

    1. jon livesey
      September 1, 2021

      Because Grammar Schools were provided by Government and Private Schools are not.

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        September 1, 2021

        John Livesey

        Provided by the taxpayer, not the Government.

        And if it is a fact that abolishing grammar improves education for all then let’s abolish private schools too… especially if it leads to those with lots of power allowing mass immigration to continue because it insulates their kids from it.

        Reply Grammars we’re not abolished everywhere and they provide a good education

        1. Micky Taking
          September 2, 2021

          back in my day – but mostly encouraged the classics almost to the exclusion of business, secretarial, economics, popular science, arts…etc

    2. Lifelogic
      September 1, 2021

      Why not give all children education vouchers to be uses at the educational establishment of their choosing? Would do wonders for the quality of schools.

  34. Wokinghamite
    September 1, 2021

    Share our housing with Afghan refugees? But why should we be asked to do that? Afghanistan is their home; the UK is ours. Previous generations of residents here have made great sacrifices to stay in possession of these islands.

    1. The Prangwizard
      September 1, 2021

      No-one in government and other authorities believe the UK is ours. They believe it belongs to everyone outside and we must give up our rights and wealth to accomodate them at a high standard after they get here following their invitatons. Nothing will change unless they are removed by whatever means we can find and apply.

    2. bigneil - newer comp
      September 1, 2021

      Wok – Afghanistan is their home; the UK is ours. -_not any more it isnt. Getting a 6/7 bedroom house on the taxpayer ( who can’t afford one themselves ), NHS, Education, etc paid for by us, can only breed resentment. Why would they want to leave somewhere they are now prioritised, have fresh water from taps, a sewage system, roads, full broadband, power, double glazing, etc etc. Certainly the 20k figure will evolve VERY quickly into six figures as more reasons “appear” to bring the population in for us to keep.

  35. glen cullen
    September 1, 2021

    We need more houses because this government doesn’t enforce its own policies on the removal of illegal immigrants from the UK; students overstay, refugees never return home, work visas are abused, illegals accepted, asylums aren’t managed, visitor & work visas aren’t managed, and now today its being reported that anyone that has ever worked for the UK military can stay permanently
    We’re having to build 250,000+ homes per year not because of organic and natural growth but due to the incompetence of this government(s)

    1. bigneil - newer comp
      September 1, 2021

      GLEN – SORRY – refugees never return home, – – how many times do we read of “refugees” too scared to live in their country, going back for a holiday to visit relatives??? REFUGEES – – CONMEN – and the govt do NOTHING. Just keep giving them money, housing etc etc. If they can afford to fly the family half way round the planet – the benefits is way too much.

      1. MFD
        September 1, 2021

        +1 TOTALLY

      2. glen cullen
        September 1, 2021

        Agree

  36. alan jutson
    September 1, 2021

    The problem with all that you outline JR was too many people entering through freedom of movement and uncontrolled immigration.

    In decades past when 20-30,000 people a year came, it was not perceived a problem, as services and housing grew at a steady rate to accept those smaller increases in numbers, but now it is more than 10 times that amount per year, we simply cannot keep up, and have overloaded all of the systems.
    A rising birth rate is not a problem for housing, as a new born takes at least 20 years to have a separate housing requirement, so there is plenty of time to act.
    Thus the simple solution is to control immigration numbers, we have “taken control” after all, at least that was what the politicians promised so act on it !.
    Likewise larger families move out of one house, to move into a larger one, they take up no more houses, they still live in one house, having vacated the old one.

  37. alan jutson
    September 1, 2021

    Do we actually count ALL MEMBERS of a family when they enter the Country as immigrants, or do we just count the head of the household, and actually ignore all the children in any family.

    Do we also count in ALL of the EXTENDED family members as immigrants when they arrive later.

    1. alan jutson
      September 1, 2021

      JR
      I asked the two simple questions above because I was informed that not all people in a household were counted in the past, just wondered if this was still the case, because if it is, then we are fooling no-one but ourselves about the true figures.

      Reply They used to use a passenger survey and now are using NI numbers

      1. bigneil - newer comp
        September 1, 2021

        reply to reply. – – Some years ago a massive discrepancy was discovered between NI numbers issued and the number of people coming. I believe it was found to be down to immigrants applying for multiple NI numbers using false IDs – resulting in massive benefit fraud. The crooks were, of course, allowed to stay here – and be a further burden to us.

  38. Micky Taking
    September 1, 2021

    Due to mere skim reading – I do have another life – – -should we be worried about the Boy Wonder seemingly absent a lot? Covid, French holidaying, protest marching, paddleboarding- worse still internet failure?

  39. Andy
    September 1, 2021

    It is your party which has repeatedly failed to build houses.

    It is the elderly people who vote for your party who refuse all house building plans.

    It is the Conservatives who fail to invest in schools, transportation, doctors.

    And yet it is the people who vote Conservative who complain that they can’t see doctor!

    Here’s a thought. Try voting for a party which invests in services for actual people and not in taxbreaks for billionaires.

    1. Peter2
      September 1, 2021

      Keeping up with demand is the difficulty Andy.
      It is nothing to do with your hatred of the elderly and the Conservatives.
      Since 1997 we needed to build a city the size of Southampton or Northampton every single year to accommodate the net migration increase in our population.

      1. Andy
        September 1, 2021

        Most of the increase in population since WW2 is caused by people living longer. A decade longer than they used to. All those old folk have to go somewhere. And where most of them go is the same very large houses they have been in for 40+ years – causing a blockage in the housing market.

        We need dormitories for grannies to ease our housing crisis.

        1. Peter2
          September 1, 2021

          Sorry for living longer a bit young Andy.
          This is easily predicted.
          These people already live somewhere.
          The element not so easily predictable is several hundred thousands per year since 2000.
          7 million extra people.
          Yet you attack those who have lived in the UK since they were born.
          Shame on you.

        2. Mike Wilson
          September 1, 2021

          Wrong again. As longevity increased, birth rate decreased as a result of birth control. We actually had a falling population for a while a few decades ago.

          Then politicians decided that, rather than manage the economy, it would be easier to increase the tax base – to pay for the services needed by an ageing population – by allowing high levels of immigration.

          High levels of immigration has been government policy for the last 50 years. It still is. This government makes no attempt to limit immigration.

          Reply I don’t see how more younger migrants makes a profit for the Treasury. There are large housing and public service costs for extra people.

    2. Micky Taking
      September 1, 2021

      phew…..anxiety over.

    3. No Longer Anonymous
      September 1, 2021

      Andy

      Old people vote against uncontrolled mass immigration… guess what ? We have mass immigration apace.

      Maybe the are voting against housing but that hasn’t stopped my (and most people I know) area from being developed beyond recognition and without any increase in public services whatsoever.

      You’re clearly talking Beaconsfield, Andy.

      There are some big houses there that could be re-purposed.

      Ban private education and healthcare too. Then you can bear the brunt of mass immigration and see how you feel about it.

    4. MFD
      September 1, 2021

      I have never found one Andy, all the parties in Westminster are tarred with the same brush. Only a few on the right wing are trust worthy

  40. Cliff. Wokingham
    September 1, 2021

    You make good points Sir John.
    I think we do have a moral duty to welcome those who helped us during the war in Afghanistan.
    The UK, or more accurately, England, is in danger of becoming a bit like a “cat lady” you know, the one that takes in all the stray cats which then breed and breed and she ends up with a house which is in a mess, over run with strays and their young and stinks of cat’s piddle.
    I do wonder how we will house all these new comers when I already see so many of our indigenous people sleeping rough. I don’t know what the answer is and by the looks of it, nor does the government.

    1. Shirley M
      September 1, 2021

      You also make good points Cliff. We get the criminals, because foreign jails are inferior to ours and we cannot deport people to the less hospitable prisons of the world. We get the sick people, because we offer ‘free’ health services and we cannot deport the foreigners as they would be ‘being sent to die’. We get the minorities, because they are ‘persecuted’ in other countries and return of them to their birthplace would mean we send them to their death. We get the dishonest who enter our country illegally and we throw money at them in the form of housing and benefits and even legal aid to force us into allowing them to remain.

      How many of the worlds criminals, sick, persecuted and ‘poor’ of the world are we expected to accommodate?

    2. glen cullen
      September 1, 2021

      They most certainly can’t be housed in army barracks, navy bases or air force stations…..we’d better start building more 4* hotels pretty dam quick (all the ones in my region are full)

    3. Mike Wilson
      September 1, 2021

      That’s a charming way to refer to people that move here.

  41. MFD
    September 1, 2021

    I, respectfully disagree with the mass migration being accepted by our Government now! The migrants want to carry on with their laws , most of which are not acceptable within our modern democracy.

    Many do not merge and integrate, so we end with areas that become ghettos and no- go areas.

    Small annual numbers annually, make those moving to our country join our population as they can be singled out and subjected to OUR laws

    Britain must not be changed to suit them.

    1. Mike Wilson
      September 1, 2021

      You do realise it is not 1950.

  42. agricola
    September 1, 2021

    Apart from opening the doors to the population of Nottingham every year government has totally failed to supply sufficient housing to meet demand. The consequence of this has been to raise house prices by 11%, pushing ownership further away from those who would wish to own their own home. Have you learnt nothing from Margret Thatcher on the benefits of an electorate owning a stake in their country. In all the areas of government activity you control, immigration, land availability, rate of building, creative mortgage schemes, relating to home ownership you have failed. I am not therefore optimistic that this problem will be resolved. The default action of government faced with any major problem seems to be to bury their heads in the sand and hope it will go away. Alternatively to talk up some impractical , expensive ,headline catching scheme that distracts the electorates venom. The current classic being the electrification of everything when you have a finite amount of electricity. Total despair.

    1. agricola
      September 1, 2021

      I would add that your ploy of late moderation lest too many agree has been long sussed.

      1. jon livesey
        September 1, 2021

        Don’t knock it. You can tell quite a lot from JR’s moderation policies.

    2. IanT
      September 1, 2021

      ” The default action of government faced with any major problem seems to be to bury their heads in the sand and hope it will go away. ”
      I think that it’s much simpler than that, they just kick the can down the road and let someone else pick up the problem. Blair took us into Iraq with no plan for what came afterwards, Brown screwed up pensions knowing he’d not be around to see the problems he’d caused to Pension Schemes – and now Boris is pushing “Electric” everything – with no idea of how it can be done – but he won’t be PM in 2030….not sure he will be around in 2025 frankly (better paid, easier jobs will surely tempt him sooner than later).

  43. NickC
    September 1, 2021

    I suggest a complete moratorium on immigration for 20 years. The only exceptions being to those for whom we already have a direct obligation such as Afghans who worked for the UK in Afghanistan, and for some of the people from Hong Kong. Families who wish to be re-united whether from Bangladesh or Romania would have to do so by the immigrant(s) going back home.

    1. J Bush
      September 1, 2021

      +1
      Why can’t they return to their homeland? Why must our increasingly over-populated finite landmass keep taking in more and more from the rest of the World?

      1. Cheshire Girl
        September 1, 2021

        We dont have to. We could always say No, but the Politicians are always worried about how we would look to the rest of the World.

        Well, I dont care what the rest of the World thinks of us. I care about my Country. Its history and heritage, and all the sacrifices made in the past, to keep us free and happy.

        Our Politicians, safe in their little world, don’t seem to care at all about the rest of us. We are told what is going to be done, and that it is good for us. We are seeing our Country transformed before our eyes, and many wonder fearfully, what the future may hold if we go on like this. One thing is sure, the people responsible, will be long gone, to their country acres, or homes overseas, leaving the rest of us to our fate.

        Who would have ever dreamt that it would come to this!

    2. Paul Cuthbertson
      September 1, 2021

      Nick C – A morartorium allows for a legal challenge. Let us start with a total ban regardless for a minimum of 5 years then reassess. No ifs or buts or exceptional circumstances. Those here can return to their homeland if necessary.
      We are a soft touch and most overseas are aware of that fact. I lived and worked in West Africa and their people know “our system inside out” and know their way around obstacles.

  44. Fedupsoutherner
    September 1, 2021

    Has the goverment given any thought at all to where all these thousands of people they are inviting in going to live permanently? It seems to me he’s giving everyone the right to stay and not given a thought for infrastructure or anything else. That’s ok Boris, we don’t mind waiting longer for dentistry, GP services, hospital waiting list, school places, nursing homes, care homes or mental health places. We don’t mind our culture being diluted and our taxes going up. Council tax rises but we get worse services. Never mind. We love diversity and all the problems and expense it brings. As long as you feel good about yourself, great. Yours, forever your servant.

    1. Andy
      September 1, 2021

      What ‘problems and expense’ does diversity bring?

      This’ll be fun.

      1. J Bush
        September 1, 2021

        This comment is not published as it refers to an alleged quote by an MP that became part of a wider libel case the MP won. Contributors need to check quotes carefully.

      2. Iain Moore
        September 1, 2021

        Afghanistan was multicultural and diverse and it hasn’t worked out too well there. So was Czechoslovakia, that didn’t last either, neither did Yugoslavia. In Africa we are told that the colonial authorities didn’t take enough note of cultural and tribal differences when drawing the borders and used as an explanation why the states there are so unstable. As I said the other day, multiculturalism in Fiji hasn’t worked out too well leading to coups, in Malaysia it descended into vicious race riots , a peace only established when the Bumiputrans stamped their supremacy and authority over the Chinese and Indian populations. Sri Lanka ended in a civil war, and in East Africa the Asian populations were expelled, and don’t forget India where the country split along religious lines, the Muslim population not want to have anything to do with a secular state.

        Diversity and multiculturalism leads to broken unhappy states, the only question left to ask why the heck is the British establishment wishing this unhappiness on us?

        1. Mitchel
          September 2, 2021

          The Czechs and the Slovaks were originally one people -in the early medieval Great Moravian state.This was shattered by the arrival of the Magyars(today’s Hungarians) from central asia.The Czechs became part of the Holy Roman Empire under Charlemagne who halted the magyar advance while the Slovaks remained part of the Hungarian kingdom until 1918.Although both ultimately became constituent parts of the Habsburg empire,they became culturally distanced.

          A similar thing happened with regard to Western Ukraine(Galicia) and Russia due to the impact of the mongols.

      3. Mike Wilson
        September 1, 2021

        I guess translating a document into 27 languages in a doctor’s surgery has no cost.

        I guess the numerous ‘diversity officers’ employed in the public sector are volunteers.

      4. Micky Taking
        September 2, 2021

        Well you do tell us regularly that you have a good laugh at others’ expense.

  45. Kenneth
    September 1, 2021

    I think we must also consider that a group of people from another culture coming into a community causes frictions and some unhappiness.

    We are tribal creatures and despite BBC propaganda, we, like every other human settlement in the world are not especially tolerant and view new arrivals with some trepidation.

    The trick is to have new arrivals coming in small lots. That way they will integrate rather than face isolation.

    Having large amounts of people setting up new communities creates ghettos and eventually conflict and unhappiness.

  46. Nota#
    September 1, 2021

    As a Nation we have obligation and have made commitments based on historical reason to others. Any decent human being would want to follow through on these promises implied or otherwise.

    The However, successive Governments have permitted the stealing the recourses we could have provided to meet these obligations by giving into those that have illegally forced their way into the Country even though they are arriving from so-called safe Countries.

    The pressure now mounts internally, the indigenous people, those that have contributed to society and the systems, on balance will have to be ignored and cast aside. I say that because this Government has shown it will ‘grandstand’ send a ‘virtue signal’ just to grab a headline. They have a tendency to accept pressure from those that will never ever vote for them just so the ego can portray the ‘Mr Wonderful’

    1. Kenneth
      September 1, 2021

      What may seem “virtuous” by some is often the prevailing fashion as promoted by some powerful media outlets.

      The propaganda may paint it “virtuous” but this does not make it so.

  47. Ed M
    September 1, 2021

    Also, the aesthetics of vast majority of new houses: pretty horrible from one degree to another (ruining towns and countryside and making people more depressed to live in these houses)
    Keep it simple:
    Working class and above: trad cottages with dormer windows
    Middle class and above: trad, small Queen-Anne / early Georgian-like houses.
    And people will feel they are more a king and queen in their castle.
    Politicians can’t force anything but they do have influence which they can use to make a difference.

    Reply What a ghastly vision of old fashioned class thinking.

    1. MiC
      September 1, 2021

      I agree absolutely with your first line.

      Planning law here is very lax, most new builds completely shun materials such as natural stone, slate and proper terracotta brick, and will often have short lives as a result.

      Every area should always have been a Conservation Area, with exceptions being made only where there were very good reasons.

      Otherwise poorly-appointed areas should have been brought up to a higher standard.

      To its credit, London has achieved a great deal on the last point.

      1. Micky Taking
        September 1, 2021

        what happened to my comments about whether London should be praised, or the various groups who bought and sold property? If had left out MPs dealing would you have included it?

      2. jon livesey
        September 1, 2021

        No, not London, but simple economics. Show people a good investment, such as property, and they will buy it and improve it.

      3. Mike Wilson
        September 1, 2021

        If every area had been a conservation area, we’d be living in caves.

        1. MiC
          September 2, 2021

          A conservation area does not exclude modern technical improvements in building design.

          It relates largely to materials, external appearance, and style.

          London has some first class new repro Georgian properties build from genuine London brick etc. but no doubt including wall insulation, double glazing, proper DPCs and the rest.

          These sorts of developments also create jobs for skilled craftspeople.

          1. Micky Taking
            September 2, 2021

            ‘These sorts of developments also create jobs for skilled craftspeople.’ from Poland and Romania.

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      EdM. OMG. You must have been taking lessons from Emily Thornbury. She comes across as sneering at the working class.

      1. Ed M
        September 2, 2021

        Hi, I don’t know who Emily T is.
        You are too cynical here, sir – you think the worst of what I was saying. I was trying to be brief in my point. I should have said not-so-wealthy people in cottages with dormer windows as cheaper to build.
        I would be very happy to live in a traditional English cottage with dormer windows compared to vast majority of modern houses being built today.
        I’m with Prince Charles on this and lots of other Tories.

  48. NickC
    September 1, 2021

    Due to President Biden’s overwhelming incompetence we will be obliged to accept Afghan refugees who at least helped the UK military in Afghanistan. I predict our own government will make that much worse – by taking in large numbers of Afghan migrants who do not deserve to be here; and by shovelling UK money on the new Taliban government.

    The Taliban will need our cash to buy spares and training for the vast arsenal of American military equipment kindly donated by Biden. The Taliban will provide samples of American military technology to the Chinese, Russians, and North Koreans all for cash too. Perhaps their aim is to consolidate Afghanistan as the world’s third military power?

    1. Cheshire Girl
      September 1, 2021

      I think all Foreign Aid to Afghanistan should cease.

      I think it would fall into the wrong hands and be wasted. Charities can send some if they wish, but not our Government. I suspect the taxpayer here has had enough.

    2. Ed M
      September 2, 2021

      It’s Blair’s fault not Biden, Boris (or Trump, May or the foreign secretary) – for getting us into this stupid, stupid war. Lessons have to be seriously learned above all for the sake of our own GREAT armed forces.

  49. Original Richard
    September 1, 2021

    Despite election promises to the contrary large scale immigration from the ME/Africa continues and with no action to stop illegal immigration where we are encouraging thousands of un-vetted fighting age males with totally different cultures to come to the UK with promises of 4 star hotels, full board, health social care, ÂŁ40/week pocket money and the freedom to roam the streets until they make the necessary connections to disappear.

    Governments then contrived to make this large scale immigration even worse for social cohesion and the economy by informing the immigrants that we were a multicultural country and that they could therefore continue with their cultures, religion, customs, practices, laws and languages in our country and there was no need for them to learn our language (interpreters always freely provided at our institutions), follow our culture and customs and integrate.

    Mr. Cameron did say in his Kazakhstan speech in July 2013 that he wanted the EU (and hence FoM) “to extend all the way from the Atlantic to the Urals” – thus including 7 or more ‘stan’ countries.

    Is this immigration all part of the Government’s long-term plans for the UK?

  50. MWB
    September 1, 2021

    I have believe that Walsall and Stoke-on-Trent councils are willing to accept some immigrants and give them free housing, edication and health care, but I haven’t yet heard how many Witney council and Maidenhead council will be accepting.
    Please could you ascertain from Cameron and May, how many these two councila are going to accept please.
    Andy on this forum is always concerned about pensioners not contributing enough to their niggardly state pensions, but what does he think about thousands coming here and getting free everything, without paying a penny.

    1. MWB
      September 1, 2021

      Correction – I have heard that…..

      In addition, has Stanley Johnson (father of PM) said how many Afghans he will be housing ?

    2. Micky Taking
      September 2, 2021

      What is the problem with calling Cameron Dave? He himself said ‘Call me Dave’.

      1. Micky Taking
        September 2, 2021

        Perhaps it was my reference to MPs buying second homes in London?

        Reply Yes, because the taxpayer does not contribute to a mortgage or capital cost of a second home.

  51. Lester_Cynic
    September 1, 2021

    Oh dear, not only has my comment not got past moderation but it’s totally disappeared which proves beyond doubt that it’s a total waste of time posting anything which is critical of the administration on here

    I really don’t know why you bother because it’s a joke and most people realise this, you’re obviously content with your MP salary and bugger the electorate

    Someone said that we need a Tory MP to lead the way but it’s obviously not you, I hope that you will volunteer to house some illegal immigrants in Redwood Towers?
    This is just an empty talking shop

    Thought not!

    1. SM
      September 1, 2021

      “THE MODERATOR RESERVES THE SOLE RIGHT TO PUBLISH OR NOT” That’s printed at the top of the page, in case you hadn’t noticed, L-C.

      Perhaps you could let us know of any other MP, in any Party, who regularly communicates with the public on an open forum, asks for opinions, and responds to many of the comments, which are often highly critical of ‘the administration’, which I take to mean the current Government?

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      September 1, 2021

      LC. How rude. We all have posts that don’t get passed but don’t give John verbal abuse.

    3. jon livesey
      September 1, 2021

      People post comments that are “critical of the administration” all the time. JR’s moderation policies are a bit more subtle than that.

  52. ferd
    September 1, 2021

    Whenever Government tries to ‘do good’ it invariably leads to bad results. The market will decide what types of accommodation should be built, where and at what price. Councils always seem to get it wrong. If there is a market for cheaper housing then provided the developer can make a profit it will be built. Building cheap housing or expensive housing in the wrong place – from the markets point of view, will always fail.

  53. jon livesey
    September 1, 2021

    “Whenever Government tries to ‘do good’ it invariably leads to bad results.”

    Not quite. Government does a lot of good, quite successfully. Where Government policy fails is usually where it tries to resist market forces and to rig markets.

    Promoting material progress usually works, and resisting economic change usually fails, often taking quite a chunk of taxpayer money down with as it does.

    But don’t take my word for it. Elect a Labour Government in 2024 and you will get a master-class in wasting taxpayer money by trying to get water to flow uphill or draining the oceans.

    1. glen cullen
      September 1, 2021

      But with Labour they’ll promise rubbish and deliver rubbish
      But the conservatives will promise rishes and deliver rubbish

      One stabs you in the front the other stabs you in the back

  54. No Longer Anonymous
    September 1, 2021

    O/T but the BBC at it again.

    A rare drama about the armed services. One finally comes along – Vigil. And what is it ? Some right-on, female civvy police investigator stomping around a submarine examining the dark underbelly of the Royal Navy.

    How about a drama about, you know, the every day Royal Navy ? Or the Army for that matter ? Instead we get (despite the majority of soldiers being young blokes) Our Girl, about a female soldier stomping around the desert riled up about sexism and inequality and the dark underbelly of the British Army.

  55. forthurst
    September 1, 2021

    What is extraordinary is that a country which is surrounded by water and was never in Schengen finds it so difficult to keep track of who is here. The ONS was surprised by the numbers requesting settled status post brexit; how can anything they produce be believed? One could almost believe that the government doesn’t want us to know how many people of alien ancestry we have here. Certainly the increasing serious crime figures suggests that substantial demographic change is taking place.

    The net migration figures are a fraud even if correct, which is doubtful, insofar as they give no indication of the impact of immigration on communities, housing or services as JR suggests.

    I see students at Goldsmiths University wish to remove statues of exemplary Englishmen. They are ‘troubled’; so am I.

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