Published on www.conservativehome.com
457 members of the UK military were killed in Afghanistan this century. We have to ask Why did they die?
War is a continuation of diplomacy and politics by violent means. A decent nation only fights a war when talking has failed, when the cause is just and when force is the only language the wrong doers understand. Success lies in fighting fewer wars. Having well resourced and respected armed services is a vital part of our nation’s security and diplomatic weight. Because we have fought victoriously in the past and show resolve in the present we have more chance of negotiating and preserving the peace.
The Falklands war is a perfect example of how a successful war is sometimes necessary and can right an obvious wrong. The unwarranted and illegal invasion of the islands against the wishes of practically every Falkland islander had to be reversed. International diplomacy failed. The Argentinians were unwilling to listen to peace proposals that required they respect the right and wish to the islanders to enjoy self government. A dangerous military campaign was brilliantly executed by UK forces. Peace was re established as soon as the last Argentinians surrendered and has endured ever since. The 258 UK deaths were not in vain. The nation took pride in their achievements. The world is a better place for us showing once again that violent annexation of a country and the termination of its freedoms is unacceptable conduct which will be reversed. We had to do it on our own, as there were divided views amongst nations despite the abuse of force by Argentina.
383,000 of our military lost their lives in the second world war. The vast scale of the death and destruction acts as a warning to the generations that follow to give diplomacy and politics every chance of success in disputes between the great powers. Today technology has delivered even more terrifying abilities to armed forces to kill huge numbers of people and destroy whole cities, making sensible politicians of the best armed countries even more reluctant to resort to war with each other. The nation as a whole does think those who lost their lives between 1939 and 1945 did so for a just cause with an eventual good result. Individual deaths may have resulted from poor planning or bad decisions by the command. More may have died owing to bad intelligence, inadequate force or even friendly fire. The pressures of total war and the ruthless ingenuity of the enemy set each of those difficult deaths into a wider and more understandable context. There is virtual unanimity that there was no feasible negotiated peace available in 1939 that would have prevented the violent annexation of Europe by Germany or would have prevented the genocides which followed.
The relatives and friends of the 457 fallen in Afghanistan need to be reassured that our nation is proud of them too. The immediate cause of NATO’s Afghan war was the unprovoked and shocking attack of terrorists on the United States, with mass civilian casualties. The USA had good intelligence that Afghanistan harboured evil men and the Afghan government was unable to offer assurances that it would find and prosecute the guilty. The early NATO campaign was successful and the government was overthrown. NATO then sought to support the creation of a government for the country chosen in free elections and capable of giving a better life to the many. Economic recovery and better treatment of women and girls followed. As a result many Afghans enjoyed an improved life over the last two decades. The deaths of our troops made that possible. Their achievements should not be forgotten.
The issue for NATO and the politicians is why did the politics fail this year? War is a means to a better end. It is the means to rebase politics which have gone wrong, and to change personnel where government has fallen into evil hands. It is a way of overthrowing dictatorial constitutions and tyrants. This was done in Afghanistan. Unfortunately the decision of President Biden to remove US forces late one night without proper consultation let alone agreement from the Afghan government and allies led to the rapid collapse of democratic government in Afghanistan.The sad scenes of a scrambled exit for the rest of the allies and friends of NATO at Kabul airport led on to triumphant displays of Afghan gunmen showing off captured NATO uniforms and weapons. The return of the Taliban leaves the USA weakened and the NATO allies visibly sidelined. It plunges many in Afghanistan into despair.
Until the withdrawal in recent years NATO had been able to offer limited support and advice to the security forces of the Afghan state, and to keep its own military personnel in the country largely out of harms way. It was a relatively cheap way of defending democracy and basic freedoms in a troubled part of the world and was only undertaken because the elected government wanted NATO to help them keep order. What followed a botched exit by the President was a needless disaster of his own making. None of this should detract from the bravery and good intentions of our forces in the twenty years of supporting the elected Afghan government.
Since 1945 the UK has been involved in a lot of more limited wars. In each case we need to ask why did we use lethal force against others and why did UK service personnel die? We might conclude that we have intervened too often. We should certainly conclude that there have been some bad political and diplomatic failures. War should only be a last resort and should only be used where there does need to be a decisive change which cannot be achieved by talking. There is plenty of collateral damage from warfare. That is elite talk for more people losing their lives and more property and livelihoods being demolished as others disagree violently. We need to get better at talking and persuading, if needs be with realistic threats that we would rather not carry out. People need to know we can and will use force as a last resort as we seek to show them that there are better ways for them as well as us.
September 7, 2021
Yes, we get involved in too many other Countries affairs. This costs us time and much money, for which we get little thanks.
Our Government is elected to look after our own country. I am fed up with being told we have to get involved because its the right/ moral thing to do. The taxpayer is never consulted on this. The Government neither knows, or cares, about how the majority of the general public feels about this.
September 7, 2021
Cheshire Girl,
The government does not care about the general public as exemplified today by broken manifesto pledges about not raising tax.
September 7, 2021
Well, we’ve been booted out of the Lugano Convention following brexit, and it doesn’t look like we’ll be readmitted as a solo nation, so we certainly are becoming far less involved with international affairs.
Using our courts for dispute resolution under it brought in about £5 billion a year plus great prestige.
September 7, 2021
Well we would naturally have left the jurisdiction of the Lugano Convention MiC because it was a treaty negotiated by the EU for its members and we are not a member any more.
We are an independent nation like the other 160 nations in the world.
September 8, 2021
And will not, as hoped and expected, be accepted back into the Convention – like important nations are – it now appears.
Well done.
September 8, 2021
Blame the EU for being deliberately awkward towards the UK MiC.
It is what they are doing in this example and in many other areas.
Yet you love it.
September 8, 2021
“Important nations”?
Be honest, we won’t be re-admitted because we hurt the EU’s feelings…
Do grow up, and stop writing such twaddle.
September 7, 2021
We should surely only fight wars to defend our territory or where we are sure we will do more good than harm, can win the war and win the peace that follows too.
The appalling Tony Blair failed appallingly on all of these points.
September 7, 2021
Cameron did too – though less harmfully.
September 7, 2021
You think that what has happened across from Libya to Syria is “less harmful” that what happened in Iraq?
I’d say that the question remains wide open at the very least.
September 7, 2021
What are you talking about ?
He uncorked Africa.
September 7, 2021
Well said.
The Afghan War was such a stupid war – 20 years ago as it is still or was a stupid war today. It’s unbelievable that Blair got away with his fantasy / hubris in The House of Commons. One of the worst days in the last 100 years of our Parliament when Blair won his case to send our troops to Afghan.
September 8, 2021
…and Blair continues to get away it and not only that, he gets wheeled on for his opinion over everything from Brexit to his biggest ego-driven venture, going to war in Iraq on a clear and obvious lie. He and the mainstream media fail to see that we are heartily sick of him. I didn’t vote for him because I could see through him from the word go, but the people that did vote for him must be feeling as sick as Biden’s voters (the genuine ones, of course).
September 9, 2021
‘The appalling Tony Blair failed appallingly on all of these points.’ Only seen afterwards. Do you think he wanted to fail from the start? Hindsight writing.
September 7, 2021
We definitely fight too many wars. The Falklands was different in that they were already the responsibility of the UK.
Afghanistan and many others were not. It now appears that we accept lifelong responsibility for any country where we send military forces and have to ‘protect’ people in that country against their own countrymen by bringing them to the overcrowded UK. The high level of immigration, and the high costs of caring for them is detrimental. Putting ILLEGAL immigrants into 4 star hotels (and all the other freebies such as NHS) has to be the biggest kick in the teeth to the UK’s homeless and those in poor housing, and the long suffering taxpayer who funds the governments largesse.
September 7, 2021
May I humbly suggest the title of your article is wrong.
It more be more accurate to say ‘Do politicians start too many wars’.
I think you will find there are substantially more members of the public who don’t want war versus the politicians that do. One example is the million or so who protested against Blair’s war and were ignored by politicians.
September 7, 2021
The politicians, 20 years ago, completely got the Afghan War wrong. Whilst all those Tories who opposed the war got it completely right. The politicians got it wrong 20 years ago and still today by focusing on Biden. I am a Republican, but the blame for the mess we’re seeing lies 99% on Bush and Blair for getting us into this stupid war.
September 7, 2021
“As a result many Afghans enjoyed an improved life over the last two decades. The deaths of our troops made that possible. Their achievements should not be forgotten.” – nor should it be forgotten that their lives were squandered by a political elite blinded by its own arrogance and self-righteousness, substituting wishful thinking for factual analysis, presuming a universal harmony of interests amongst nations where none exists, that then considers it appropriate to impose its values and beliefs wheresoever its power can reach in pursuit of what E.H. Carr might have called its utopian dreams. No, we will not forget!
September 7, 2021
Agreed FORMULA57, but on top of all that, they bring home soldiers suffering from battle fatigue and many other mental illnesses, this is aggravated by dumping a majority on the streets. To make things worse they house the invading islamic army that is gathering in the best quality hotels and give them treatment in the NHS. A lot of our politicians are not fit for purpose
September 7, 2021
The trouble re war is that we do not know the truth.
But we do know that we are consistently lied to. I remember lies and omissions in school history.
So how can we judge what is or was a “just war”?
We are told that in WW1, young men, boys really, not soldiers were shot for being afraid. Is that true?
If it is, stop welcoming newcomers with rapidly procured 4 bedroomed houses.
Look after this country’s veterans.
September 7, 2021
Absolutely, re your first line.
For instance, it is credibly reported that Saddam was misled into thinking that the US etc. did not care for Kuwait and would not lift a finger if he invaded it.
A similar theory has been advanced about Galtieri and the Falklands.
At this distance now, who knows?
September 7, 2021
I didn’t realise you believed in odd conspiracy theories MiC
September 7, 2021
The Argentinians were mishandled by Lord Carrington and the Foreign Office in several ways.
September 7, 2021
Indeed.
You rightly say:- “Because we have fought victoriously in the past and show resolve in the present we have more chance of negotiating and preserving the peace.”. This is why it is so appalling that the recent events (and the gross incompetence of Biden) have done this reputation such profound damage.
Defence procurement in the UK in the UK is appallingly inefficient and misguided (and almost certainly very corrupt too I suspect).
September 7, 2021
Good morning.
And that Sir John, is the legacy we have been living with ever since – It was successful and a pivotal moment in British and British political history. It saved a failing government and provided it with one more term in which it could carry out its economic reforms and save the country. We had, in a few short years, gone from a nation that could not even bury its own dead to one that could fight, and win, a war half a world away. The day the Task Force set sail was as memorable and the day it returned triumphant. After Suez our nations pride was restored, and ever since various PM’s have sought numerous wars in which to recapture that moment. And in that last sentence there, I believe, lay the root of our problem – the wars we fought (minus the first Gulf War) were wars made from vanity and not from valour. Their cause as suspect as the strategy, funding, and political will.
As someone once said; “The West has all the watches, but we have all the time.” And so it has proved.
September 7, 2021
There is always money for another war or an MP Pay rise, or even a few more in the bloated Lords. Or a few more hotels. Or some foreign aid for a few despots. Just not the waspi women, the triple lock and elderly care.
We need to stay out of other countries. We seem to have caused chaos in most. We should withdraw from the UN which like NATO are now very expensive toothless tigers.
I was a soldier for 24 years and now cannot believe the waste of life. My friend was killed and his father took his own life. As for the loss of life not being in vain. I should tell that to the parents.
September 7, 2021
Bw. Great comment.
September 7, 2021
concur
September 7, 2021
‘War should only be a last resort and should only be used where there does need to be a decisive change which cannot be achieved by talking. ’
Yet there was a neocon idea of forecful ‘regime change’in seven countries in five years according to US general Wesley Clark.
As for Afghanistan, there is an argument that the Afghan Army was one of the best paid occupations in the country and many of its personnel were only there for the money. The immediate collapse of the Afghan army should have been anticipated by Western military personnel on the ground. Either way, it was a botched evacuation sand Biden bears responsibility for that.
September 7, 2021
‘neocon’
– The neocons weren’t true Republicans or Conservatives but madmen, to a degree, on a major bravado power trip who happened to be Republicans / Conservatives.
September 7, 2021
The Falklands War is indeed a good example of British armed forces properly deployed. It is also the last. Since then Britain’s armed forces have been operated as soldiers of fortune. If you look at the recruitment adverts, they are all about career, travelling and operating military kit. Nothing about laying down your life for your country. The soldiers who died in Afghanistan did so doing the job they chose.
Little was accomplished in Afghanistan, with the occupying forces overseeing corrupt government and an opium trade cornering 80% of the world’s production. We see the images of the numbers of people trying to escape, but I get the feeling most Afghans (the more important men that is) are just as happy with the Taliban in charge.
Before we send any more aid to Afghanistan, drop leaflets on Kabul saying that to get the aid the Afghans have to overthrow the Taliban and reinstate democratic government, because the western powers can’t work with the Taliban. See then how much the Afghans really don’t want the Taliban and empty tums.
September 7, 2021
We should aspire to Germany’s approach, simply don’t get involved in any overseas fighting at all. Why should we be any different to them ?
September 7, 2021
Because we are a maritime power that is responsible for the protection of trade, and Germany is a continental power that is able to shelter behind US and UK protection. This used to be so basic that schools taught it.,
September 8, 2021
The age of sea power has passed;the Sino-Russian alliance has seen to that with the rapidly evolving process of Eurasian integration.
September 7, 2021
I’ve always believed that a war should only be fought if the politicians that start it are in the front line of any action.
September 7, 2021
I believe the purpose of our military should be the ability to defend out country against any threat and to carry out reprisals – from the air or sea – if we are attacked.
To this end I would like to see the continuation of our nuclear deterrent. Is it true that we cannot fire a trident missile without American permission? If this is true, this needs to be rectified at once.
Just let the world know that:
1) We can defend ourselves
2) If you enable terrorists to attack us, we can retaliate with lethal force
September 7, 2021
The UK’s strategic deterrent is operationally independent of the USA – and that’s UNCLASSIFIED. One can go back in history to find some RAF systems – the Thor IRBM, supplied under Project EMILY, for example – that relied on US supplied and controlled (‘dual key’) nuclear warheads. Also UNCLASSIFIED, the USA is capable of supplying nuclear warheads, such as the B61, to NATO partners’ air forces in Europe; again, ‘dual key’ arrangements would be in force. SACEUR is, of course, always an American. That’s all you’re gettin’.
September 7, 2021
No, it is not true. It is just often repeated CND propaganda.
September 7, 2021
Scanned only – but no mention of Taiwan, I see. Perhaps the Commons needs a debate on the subject in the near future.
September 7, 2021
Nothing to do with England.
September 7, 2021
You need to look into the importance of TMSC in the supply of semi-conductors to the West.
September 8, 2021
Taiwan Semiconductor is important to the whole world, not just UK. UK should realise that it’s status is that of a 2nd rate country, and stop interfering in the affairs of other countries.
September 7, 2021
We behave like we are a super power when in fact our military have been decimated.
Our biggest problem is the potential war within our borders, fighting the incomers who wish us harm.
It is reported there were 1,000 yesterday.
When will you get a grip.
September 7, 2021
Why talk of war when we can’t ( won’t) defend our own borders?
I suspect that, in the absence of a Home Secretary, Border Force and Navy, at some point someone will emerge who is prepared to defend them!
And the poor little handwringing liberals won’t like that!
September 7, 2021
My understanding of NATO involvement in Afghanistan is one of mission creep from the original objective of destroying the terrorists based there to nation building using western values as the guiding objective. It is not the only example of failed western attempts to impose it’s values on other states deemed to have failed. Such attempts do not justify military intervention and loss of life. They fail because values cannot be imposed by force on alien cultures and religions. Sooner or later the power that seeks to do so will run out of the blood, treasure and drive to impose it’s will.
September 7, 2021
+1
September 7, 2021
I think the lesson to be learned from Afghanistan is to only fight for those who would fight for themselves. Following the Afghani capitulation it is obvious that we were not valued and so were wasting our time and lives.
The terrorist threat merely moved to the next country (a supposed ally). Modern civilisations will never be able to comprehend the subjugation possible by religious doctrine (see the problems of Ireland and Northern Ireland to see how difficult it is to understand and multiply that many times for the patriarchal religion of peace) so we should not get involved. Witch doctors will always hold sway over the gullible.
September 7, 2021
Off topic – career suicide by your Prime Minister expected today. I hope that there are enough back benchers prepared to help him visit Dignitas.
September 7, 2021
Update at 12.50
We look to the Conservative backbenchers
Reports that cabinet did not see the proposals before the meeting so no due consideration given.
September 7, 2021
+1 and MPs expected to vote tomorrow I think! It should be rejected. It is idiotic and will raise no money anyway. More likely to reduce the overall tax take, push industry and jobs overseas, render the UK less competitive and deter UK investment.
September 7, 2021
“Do we fight too many wars”
Is the Pope Catholic!
I understand the housing minister Robert Jenrick MP, wants to provide four bedroom accommodation to his ‘Afgan project’ migrants. Does Jenrick, have any idea how much a four bedroom house in, for example, Wandsworth costs? A modest four bedroom house will cost £1,100,000.
Yes, that’s all.
Do you know what the average waiting list for council accommodation in London is? An average of ten years. In some boroughs twice that.
September 7, 2021
+1 and how long will it take before these people start to pay any net tax into the system (after benefits, schooling, roads, NHS … if ever?
September 7, 2021
AOL. We have become 2nd class citizens in our own country. We no longer count. We just pay the taxes.
September 7, 2021
An excellent piece. Having capable armed forces is one thing, but good and clear political leadership is also required. That was the failure in Iraq, the greatest error of U.K. foreign policy since WW2. In Afghanistan, President Biden’s surrender and rushed retreat without consultation with allies is a disaster for the security of the West. Not to mention the $10s of billions of armaments which he has left for the Taliban, which they can now use themselves or supply to terrorist organisations and / or hostile states. apparently it’s approx the same value as the US has supplied to Israel through the whole life of the state of Israel.
Biden’s contemptible attempts to blame everyone but himself, his speech in which he failed to make any acknowledgement of 20 years of support from allies including the U.K., including hundreds of lives sacrificed and £s, $s €s billions brings shame and disgrace to add to the humiliation of the USA. I did not like President Trump and thought he deserved to lose the election, but the world was a safer place with him as President. Biden is a disaster.
September 7, 2021
Biden is a general disaster because he’s not up to the job of being a US President. But that’s different to the specific disaster here of Bush / Blair getting us into the stupid wars in Afghan and Iraq in the first place.
September 7, 2021
How did Afghanistan go from retribution over Bin Laden to liberation of women ?
Too many WRONG wars, to be precise.
September 7, 2021
It is clear that – just as Government got Karen to enforce mask wearing for them – the Government got students and women’s libbers to prevent the questioning of our occupations and interference in Islamic countries.
This wasn’t mission creep, it was mission disguise and the enlistment of the Left to see that it continued.
Now the boat people crisis is being disguised as a women’s liberation as the BBC camera lenses focus on the token women and token baby on each RNLI vessel rather than the 20 blokes accompanying them.
And on that – a thousand migrants the other day @ (say) 20 men per boat… that makes 50 boats a day.
That’s an invasion by any definition.
September 7, 2021
Yes, most certainly, we have been involved in far too many conflicts, too many wars.
Wars are necessary as a last resort, but diplomacy has failed us far more than the politicians that sent our armed forces off to fight.
The only diplomacy the West has been cultivating over the last half century, is one of persuading others to fall in line, to do what the USA want them to do, not what is beneficial to both sides.
This failed style of diplomacy has brought us the Palestinian problem, along with many terrorists who only awoke with a passion to kill westerners as unnecessary conflicts and violations against their kin increased. The media has made this far worse by continually keeping the blood boiling.
Our respected armed forces has had to deal with a lot, given how it was starved of resources so often, vastly reduced in numbers, and forced into impossible situations, then dragged through the courts for doing something they were engaged to do.
We badly need a great fighting force, for the world is now a much more dangerous place than it has ever been before, and future conflicts are likely to be on our own soil!
September 7, 2021
Moreover what on earth is the point of war?
Entrust…entrusted with vax passports.
I wonder who is involved in/owns that company? 🤔
September 7, 2021
Perhaps too many wars between the government and younger taxpayers.
I’m not sure why young people who were by and large immune from a virus were prevented from working and contributing to society?
I’m not sure why the same people should now be overtaxed to pay for their parents who have enough and more, then a triple locked state pension on top?
Why are we cobbling students with 6% interest on their student loans when their parents were given grants?
Why are we cobbling new businesses with the same regulations as the EU but ever higher taxes?
Why have we conceded a border in our own country?
The tally is adding up and it isn’t pretty. Perhaps you should be using this time to set up a new and better party instead of wasting it inside this one, wars or no wars.
September 7, 2021
We should act in the manner of other countries of our size and only go to war if we or our allies are attacked. Meanwhile the war against the British people of the cross-Channel invasion continues unabated. Boris Johnson and Priti Patel have fallen back on the old canard of blaming the French, with Patel apparently threatening to withdraw funding. The French must be quaking in their boots! Who will stand up in the HoC and speak out against this nonsense? It is entirely in the gift of OUR politicians to end the taxi service, end the generous ‘asylum’ regime which is a magnet to chancers from around the world, and operate a strict policy of deportations like Australia and Russia. The first small step is to repudiate the UN Global Compact.
September 7, 2021
As I recall we were dragged into Afghanistan for two reasons:
1) Blair’s desire to be as close as possible to Washington. Chris Meyer wrote he was instructed to get up the arse of the Americans.
2) The Blair doctrine that something must be done to right wrongs. It worked in former Yugoslavia – a European country where we had some cultural understanding. It was a disaster in Afghanistan where we had none and no knowledge of the country at all.
The west has to accept that bad things happen elsewhere in the world and we have no responsibility to do anything about them – no matter how much our media may shriek about the appalling things which are happening. The outcome of any intervention is always that ultimately we make things worse.
September 7, 2021
For many years, British defence strategy has been to rely on our allies in NATO – principally the USA – for defence against superpowers such as the old USSR. This has allowed a succession of Conservative governments to cut expenditure on defence, the worst recent examples being Cameron’s malign 2010 SDSR and now Johnson’s savage 2021 cuts – which broke one of Johnson’s election promises made two years ago – and militarily, we are a much weaker nation now than we were even 25 years ago.
The USA under Biden has just, unilaterally, pulled out of Afghan – apparently without consulting us or NATO allies. Which begs the question, could we really rely on the Americans to defend us if necessary?
The Roman writer Flavius Vegetius Renatus wrote in his 390AD work “Epitoma rei militari” (A summary of military matters) “Si vis pacem, para bellum” – which translates as “If you want peace, prepare for war” This was an early exposition of the principle of deterence – Sun Tzu wrote something similar 500 years earlier.
In a dangerous world, the British Army is now the weakest at 72,500 soldiers than at any time in the last 200 years. Johnson, the liar, has just made another of his classic blunders.
September 7, 2021
” The world is a better place for us showing once again that violent annexation of a country and the termination of its freedoms is unacceptable”
How about the electoral annexation of a country and the termination of its freedoms? Elephant in the room that you are ignoring JR.
September 7, 2021
It is a long time since we had the resources to police the World and in any case, I do not believe that we should involve ourselves in the politics of other countries simply because they do not match our own values.
It is clear from World events that people are not all ‘on the same page’ and we should respect their right of self determination in the same way that we are now beginning to treat individuals in the UK.
Since the covid outbreak, it is clear that the UK needs all the help and resources that we can provide.
Obviously, it is a different matter when British interests are under threat.
September 7, 2021
The Falklands War was completely justified; our own territory was attacked and annexed by another country and Mrs Thatcher was completely vindicated in her decision to regain it.
But we have certainly fought too many wars over the past 25 years. And that is down to Blair, and to a lesser extent, Cameron and Clegg who all thought “they had God on their side” and intervention was therefore justified.
The Afghan war was justified since the Taliban had harboured Bin Laden who killed 64 British citizens in the Twin Towers attack and refused to give him up. However, no action was taken against Pakistan, which offered him a safe haven, and I expect that is solely because Pakistan is a nuclear power.
There was no justification whatsoever for our involvement in Iraq, Syria or Libya. It is not our business to interfere in countries which have not attacked us, or depose Governments we don’t approve of, regardless of the way they treat their own citizens. All it has done is make us less safe in our own countries.
What the British people DO need to be protected from are messianic Prime Ministers who believe they have God on their side and therefore believe that the ends they desire justify the means they wish to deploy (including lying about the dangers). Unfortunately, Parliament failed to do that, although it had learnt the lesson by the time Cameron tried to involve us further in the Syrian civil war.
September 7, 2021
This is a diversionary piece, posted when there is so much of immeddiate importance brewing at home.
Migrants streaming ashore, now in daily thousands.
An NI hike to pour more money into the NHS black hole due to a total lack of original thinking.
A three card trick over pensions. Inflationary price hikes all over the economy that do not count despite the triple lock.
The blatant dithering over Art 16s use against the NI Protocol.
Private enterprise wishes to invest in coal for steel but governments obsession with climate change and CO2 drives them to fight it.
You may not have noticed but all these measures are aimed at conservative voters for which you will pay err long . Not surprising as the present government is ever increasingly socialist. We the electorate, who you wish to vote for you, do not buy into it. Question who has bought our government. It is not serving the people who voted for it.
September 7, 2021
A confirmation of not printing what you do not wish to see.
September 7, 2021
Sir John,
Old Joe Biden’s cunning plan is about to come to fruition. On 9/11 this Saturday he’s going to pose and preen at ground zero while making a long, rambling speech about mission accomplished with his successful Afghan withdrawal. This will be his legacy, and like Blair before him he hopes for the adulation and gratitude of the American establishment and people.
September 7, 2021
From my memory Paddy Ashdown said if you go to war, you must only do it as THE VERY LAST RESORT and then you need to go in absolutely, throw everything into it and ensure the opposition accept the new rule of law or are killed and EVERYONE must be processed.
Afghanistan history is just littered with failures of OCCUPATION and wars of attrition, manifest by porous borders. Now we/USA/NATO all left without either a successful occupation plan or exit plan.
Politicians and their Governments took us into wars (ignoring the Paddy Ashdown principle of VERY LAST RESORT) and they must be held accountable for the avoidable deaths and injuries of our armed forces. Manslaughter charges should be brought against Blair for one.
The war of occupation was unnecessary imvho, it was not the very last resort.
September 7, 2021
Someone needs to scrutinise the Kosovo war. No-one did at the time and A Campbell had it all his own way. This was because Blair was acting in concert with a Democrat so the media on both sides of the Altantic gave them a free pass. The UN man on the spot told Blair and Clinton not to do it because they would precipitate an humanitarian crisis. So they did, and when the crisis ensued, they said they must carry on bombing because there was an humanitarian crisis. Kosovo is now a failed state. The history of the Balkans is far too complicated, including the horrific massacres on all sides, to be reduced to the simplistic terms Campbell did. It was an abuse of NATO.
September 7, 2021
PS it is possible that if Blair had not got off Scot free over Kosovo, letting the KLA tail wag the NATO dog, he might not have blundered into Iraq. As it was, he probably said to the novice Bush, trust me, I know how to square the press. It’s easy.
September 8, 2021
Kosovo was, in my opinion, an illegal war. We aided and abetted the annexation of another countries lands based on spurious reasons such as protecting the population who, were not native to those lands but ethnic Albanians.
As mention above, we need protecting from PM’s who develop a God Complex.
September 7, 2021
Off topic. I think the government has a problem. When Johnson talks about the NHS needing funding and the rise in NI to come, in fact – when he talks about anything, no-one takes him seriously.
People do not regard him a a serious person. They voted for him because he is a ‘bit of a character’ but, now that it is serious, who takes him seriously?
Comments are not appearing this morning – yet. I imagine the frequent posters here chomping at the bit and checking every five minutes so they can say the same thing for the umpteenth time.
September 7, 2021
I will always remember a lecture given by a Royal Navy Chief Petty Officer saying that we go to war/armed conflict about every ten years; we all thought he was barmy…but he’s been proven to be correct
The UK goes to war a lot but Peru doesn’t
September 7, 2021
I did four in my 33 years – and still missed Gulf War II, Syria and Libya. I went off to war for the first time within a week of completing my training.
September 7, 2021
Exactly why we sent troops to Afghanistan in the first place is an interesting question. Originally the plan was to force the Taliban to hand over Bin Laden. Then the policy changed to invasion and occupation. Who decided? Tony Blair and his best mate George Bush, or vice versa. Sending British forces to Afghanistan was not discussed in Cabinet. In November 2001, the despatch of up to 6,000 British troops to provide a stable context for a post-Taliban government emerged from discussions between Blair and Bush, not from decisions taken by our government. Yes, our troops showed terrific bravery and resilience over the years, but they were at first doing a private job for Blair, not for this country.
September 7, 2021
I belive that in the case of Britain, we fight wars because the our politicians want to appear as important on the world stage.
In my view, the best thing that could happen is that UK splits up and we are left with England, Scotland and Wales, with Northern Ireland joining Eire. Then England would be a small country, with no UN Security Coundcil seat, maybe no nuclear detterent, and I hope would behave more like The Netherlands, Belgium or Denmark.
I recommend that we stop the silly ‘special relationship’ nonsense and stop following USA into everything that they do.
September 7, 2021
I have an issue with the young and fittest young men leaving Syria, Afganistan etc. Leaving their female relatives and young relatives to the male-dominated regimes that are taking back over. The governments sending our men over to protect people whose own people what – aren’t capable – aren’t willing – don’t really care about a male-dominated regime? Before we keep interfering shouldn’t we be determining if we are actually interfering too much with this regions preferred way of life.
The British government for two decades have sent young British people over to protect, often with just a couple of years of basic training, how many of the 457 killed received less than two years of training? And why after 20 years aren’t Afghanistan’s men and women who now want to flee trained to protect their own.
September 7, 2021
I see unelected Brexitist bureaucrat David Frost is so excited about what his Brexit agreement means for Northern Ireland that he has unilaterally decided to delay the full implementation of the Brexit agreement that he negotiated.
The people clearly cannot be trusted with such sunny Brexit uplands.
Alternatively, he negotiated an embarrassingly poor deal – claimed it was great – and now is too gutless to admit it. Has there ever been a bigger fool in government?
September 7, 2021
You dont really understand how the Agreement works Andy.
Do some research.
There is of course a general agreement, but the details of the practical implementation was for the two parties to work out in the period afterwards.
This part is what is currently being negotiated.
For example do we really need full inspection of incoming supermarkets delivery lorries when it is obvious the goods on board are only destined for their own branches inside Northern Ireland?
September 7, 2021
For many foodstuffs yes.
For people who are obsessed with borders you appear to be absolutely clueless about borders.
This is what a border is. A barrier between different jurisdictions for whatever crosses it. Whether the thing crossing it is a person or a sausage.
Mostly I find it funny. Laughing at all of you is fun.
September 8, 2021
Why does it need full inspection?
Give examples of any breaches that have seen supermarket lorries clandestinely changing their route and going across the border.
Just more waffle rom you Andy.
Goods travel across borders every day with minimal disruption
The TIR scheme and trusted trader scheme are just two examples.
The implementation of the Norther Ireland Protocol is being used by the EU as an exercise in vindictive bureaucracy
And you know it.
September 7, 2021
Andy, you really do need to read what you quote. Frost *also* negotiated the inclusion of grace periods and Article 16 in the NIP. The fact that he was able to persuade the EU of the necessity of these safeguards indicates that both sides recognised that the full implications of the NIP could not be determined in advance, and that some flexibility in implementation was needed.
For your comments to have any value, they have to reflect the totality of what is going on. You can’t ignore essential parts of the NIP and then declare that the part you choose to acknowledge is “embarrassingly poor”.
Taken as a whole, without parts being selectively omitted, the NIP isn’t at all bad, given the complicated situation it is trying to manage. The problem is the obstructive and power-grabbing way the EU chooses to administer their side of it,
September 7, 2021
Frost’s opposite number, Michel Barnier, is an unelected bureaucrat, like Frost. What’s your point?
September 7, 2021
Barnier isn’t incompetent. He didn’t negotiate a border down the middle of France. The goon your mob appointed did negotiate a border down the middle of the UK.
September 7, 2021
“We need to get better at talking and persuading, if needs be with realistic threats that we would rather not carry out. People need to know we can and will use force as a last resort as we seek to show them that there are better ways for them as well as us.2
We had a four year glimpse of this approach with President Trump who was on his way to world peace through strength.
September 8, 2021
It was actually Peace Through Letting The Enemy Get Their Own Way, Rose.
September 7, 2021
Reported in Arab Weekly 25/8/21:
“Saudi-Russian defence agreement reflects Riyadh’s diversification drive.”
Signed in Moscow (and following the Saudi defence minister’s visit to Russia’s annual arms exhibition in August)this represents a further strategic move closer to Russia,following their successful collaboration in the oil market with the OPEC+ format.
Who knows perhaps Russia will be able to broker a rapprochement between Saudi and Iran in due course-I can’t think of anyone else who is likely to achieve that!
In the meantime,those Patriot air defence systems(which didn’t prevent the missile attack on the Saudi oil facilities a couple of years ago)that have recently been withdrawn by the US may be replaced by S400s(they are known to have been in talks about buying this system).Saudi accounts for almost a quarter of US arms exports and is the UK’s largest customer.Someone is going to find themselves squeezed by this re-alignment.
September 7, 2021
Much sense from Lord Peter Lilley today in the Telegraph.
“There is an alternative to tax-funded care
If the state were to offer insurance to individuals, it could solve the crisis at a small fraction of the cost”
I know Lilly is getting on a bit but please can we put him, JR and Matt Ridley in charge of energy, climate, the tax system, the economy, no 10 and no 11, the dire NHS and social care too please instead of the damn fools now in charge. I see we are burning Russian Coal again today for electricity – and this in daylight on a warm summer day! What has the energy minister got to say. Wittering on about the Saudi Arabia of wind, net zero or some other drivel no doubt?
September 7, 2021
It should of course be optional insurance.
September 7, 2021
Russian coal when we could have it ftom Cumbria
September 8, 2021
The Russians are building a new coal export terminal in the Arctic-I think it’s main market will be India/Asia generally but they’ll sell to the highest bidder!
September 7, 2021
How do you know this?
September 7, 2021
Tory MPs need to go back to their constituents and prepare for opposition
September 7, 2021
Fisticuffs I should think! War in fact!!
After Johnson’s latest betrayal aka lie fest.
September 7, 2021
The fact that you refer to the British army as “the military” is symbolic of the extent to which our forces are, because of their ever diminishing size, falling further and further under American domination.
September 7, 2021
Off topic – Government is playing the sleight of hand card once more, a rise of 1.2% in NHI contributions is not in itself 1.2%, but a full 10% increase on the 12% now paid.
September 7, 2021
A typical work might lose about 40% in NI employee and employer and income tax so £100 from the employer leave them with £60 this new NI increase will now leave them with about £57.5 a pay cut of nearly 5% for most workers is what will result.
September 7, 2021
It will in practise be far, far worse even than this as it will make the overall economy less competitive. Thus destroying jobs, competition for workers and thus hit wage increases. It will almost certainly raise less tax not more by decreasing the wealth creating sector (as we are so hugely overtaxed already).
If the government are short of money just cancel Net Zero, the moronic HS2, the climate change committee, the climate change act, the many other inefficiencies and pointless activity in government, the many loans for mainly worthless degrees, the incompetent defence procurement, the appalling waste in the NHS (start with all the “diversity” workers on £80k.
September 7, 2021
The failure of NATO in Afghanistan was for the mission creep of moving on to régime change in trying to make a society someone else’s image.
No longer a case of ‘if’ but ‘when’ – Taiwan, officially the Republic of China (ROC), is attacked and taken over by the People’s Republic of China, what would be the purpose of NATO then?
The concern for the UK is that nothing we are doing now and what expect to do in the coming years cannot function without Taiwan. They supply the core functions for all our daily needs. The UK is not self reliant, but totally reliant on others. Logic the UK will bow and comply with the Chinese rulers.
NATO stopped being a club that had at its core – an attack on one member was attack on all members when rather than contribute proportionally and equally at all levels, its membership let one Country carry the baulk of the burden.
September 8, 2021
Both the PRC and the RoC claim to be China;the USA long ago accepted the One China dictum(as part of the Kissinger/Nixon rapprochement I believe);that One China is the PRC for all but a handful of microstates.
September 7, 2021
A question to everyone. The PM has announced NHI is to increase by 10%, yes 10%(the 1.25% was a smoke screen, maybe from not understanding the basics of finance and the economy 1.25 0f 12 is 10% not 1.25%) – does any one anywhere believe we will see 10% better value for money from NHI funded services?
The so-called poll on the subject asked people would they pay an additional 1% for better services, it didn’t ask would you pay 10% more.
Without an economy there will be little or no addition income for anyone.
September 7, 2021
We need another civil war before the politicians destroy this country forever.
September 8, 2021
There is a social ‘war’ brewing, and long overdue a racial justice ‘war’.
What will never be tackled is the tax via Company vs tax via Worker issue.
September 7, 2021
Depends what you call a War I suppose.
1st and 2nd World wars not much choice, likewise the Falklands when British interests were threatened and at Risk.
But how about Ireland, perhaps not often referred to as a war, but people on both sides died, as did members of the public, and it was fought on British soil for many years.
Suez another short conflict.
Then we have a number of conflicts/wars in the middle East, where we were in partnership with others, and last but not least Afghanistan.
You say War should be the absolute last resort, and that is absolutely true.
The problem with War, has always been the so called peace that follows, which is often worse than the initial cause of the conflict in the first place. Sadam, Gadaffi, etc
Yes horrible people, but is it any better now they are gone ?
Should we really get involved in another Country’s business and armed conflict when it does not really affect our Country first hand.
We cannot and should not be the policemen/women of the World, we are not rich enough, not large enough, and our forces are far too tiny to even contemplate such.
As the old saying goes, better to Jaw, jaw than war, war, we still have some soft power in the World, although that is going down fast, so diplomatically we perhaps need to get in early if we see a potential flashpoint starting to escalate out of control, which will have a negative effect on our Country in some way, but go no further unless our Country is directly at risk.
Good Intelligence is absolutely vital, it does not help matters when for political reasons dodgy dossiers are promoted by vested interests.
September 7, 2021
If politicians are going to send our Armed forces to War, it has to be without caveats which in the past has meant that our forces are fighting with their hands tied behind their backs.
War is a very, very dirty business, it is utter madness to say you have to wait until they shoot first, before you can engage with them.
Perhaps we should put some of the armchair critics on the front line for a couple of weeks, that may bring some reality to what going to War actually means.
September 7, 2021
I see we had another 700 odd illegal arrivals yesterday via the Royal Navy and RLNI taxi service.
Now up to 13,500 this year, at what level is this called infiltration, or an an invasion JR. ?
Security starts at home, we have failed, big time !
I see it is being reported that the recent alleged New Zealand terrorist was a so called “war refugee” trying to claim asylum.
September 7, 2021
It still isn’t illegal to arrive by dinghy to claim asylum. However often you claim otherwise.
September 8, 2021
They are safe in France where they live.
Therefore it is illegal.
September 8, 2021
You’ve had the actual UN rule linked for you, which proves that it is not illegal, and yet you continue to make a complete fool of yourself by repeating this fallacy again and again.
September 8, 2021
They are safe in France.
The original UN asylum agreement is for nearest place of safety.
These immigrants have travelled through many safe havens therefore they came here, so they are just economic migrants.
Why come in dingies?
Why not just come in by plane or train or coach if they have a UN rule to support their asylum claim?
September 7, 2021
History shouts that Afghanistan is the graveyard of armies, what childish politician thought it was a good idea to spill the blood of our youth in that barren land?
Little wonder we cannot afford to take care of our elderly when all tax goes to general expenditure and not where they were told it would be used. England is destitute because our taxes go to foreign lands.
September 7, 2021
John. Not only foreign lands but the devolved nations too.
September 7, 2021
Off topic, the Irish News calls for a spirit of flexibility over the Irish protocol:
https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/leadingarticle/2021/09/07/news/editorial-spirit-of-flexibility-needed-on-protocol-2439266/
“Editorial: Spirit of flexibility needed on protocol”
This is the day after this uncompromising, categorical, statement from the EU Commission:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/STATEMENT_21_4586
“we will not agree to a renegotiation of the Protocol.”
Which means, for example, that the EU will not be prepared to even considering amendment of Article 5 to reverse the default position that all goods entering Northern Ireland from outside the EU, including the rest of the UK, must be considered at risk of being moved on to the Irish Republic and elsewhere in the EU unless it is proved otherwise:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/840230/Revised_Protocol_to_the_Withdrawal_Agreement.pdf
“2. For the purposes of the first and second subparagraph of paragraph 1, a good brought into Northern Ireland from outside the Union shall be considered to be at risk of subsequently being moved into the Union unless it is established that that good … “
September 7, 2021
Just a reminder from the spring:
https://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2021/04/15/the-uks-internal-market-and-the-northern-ireland-protocol/#comment-1222637
https://ec.europa.eu/info/strategy/relations-non-eu-countries/relations-united-kingdom/eu-uk-withdrawal-agreement/protocol-ireland-and-northern-ireland_en
“The Protocol contains a presumption that all goods entering Northern Ireland from a third country (i.e. from any other part of the United Kingdom or from other third countries) are at risk of moving on to the Union. Such goods may only exceptionally be considered “not at risk” of moving on to the Union … “
September 7, 2021
Why would the EU consider amending the agreement? You Brexitists only signed it just over 18 months ago and you still haven’t fully implemented it.
You Brexitists told us at the time it was a great deal. I assume you all said this because none of you had actually read it. More alarmingly nor had many of the Tory MPs who voted for it.
I knew it was a crap deal. I actually read it. I spent many monthly telling you all it was crap. I think I got called a traitor or a remoaner. I was regularly told to go and live in my beloved EU – which, of course, I can’t because you removed that right from me too.
So mostly I now find it funny that are whinging about Brexit. I’m afraid you really need to get over it.
Reply I said the NI and fish provisions were unacceptable.I argued for a WTO exit.
September 8, 2021
John – you knew that you would lose – and spare you the disaster that WTO would have been – didn’t you?
However, your apparently principled position may have kept a few of the flakier voters for your party.
September 9, 2021
Why would WTO be a disaster?
It is the system that is used by almost 100% of world trade.
Including the EU
September 7, 2021
It is also essential that the service people also can appreciate the person instigating the fight has done all to prevent the conflict, this was not the situation in the Iraq war and the reason most soldiers detest Tony Blair- he was on an ego trip and power slide. With the lies proven against him, He should have stood trial for the lives loat.
September 7, 2021
O/T
The Government never tells me to wear a mask again and the Government never tells me whom I can and can’t see… especially my Mum.
I know plenty who feel like me and mean it.
No new lockdown.
The Government simply doesn’t have the police or the courts to enforce one.
September 7, 2021
Off topic
I hope enough Conservative Mp’s will vote against, and defeat the ill thought out Social care programme tomorrow.
After all this time, is this pathetic suggestion/policy Boris has announced today, the best he can come up with.
Good grief if he cannot do better than this, then for goodness sake get someone in charge who can.
September 7, 2021
Surely an important part of the answer to your question, Sir John, is :- can we afford to fight these wars?
An FOI request to the MOD seven years ago uncovered that the British taxpayer had spent over £21,000,000,000 on the Afghan war up to 2014.
A government that believed in cost-benefit analysis (not yours, I know) would wonder if this was value for money. It is not hard to think of other things that money could have been better spent on, in the public interest.
September 7, 2021
I would say that the government just lost the next election today, in any reasonable time that would be true. Sadly the labour party are determined to make themselves even more unelectable.
Dunno what will happen but the people are not happy.
September 8, 2021
So no more standing outside their homes on a Thursday evening clapping their hands like a bunch of morons then ?
September 8, 2021
Perhaps we could all stand outside rustling our paper money instead?
September 7, 2021
Yeah, yeah. The military is a disaster. Defence procurement is a scandal. We fight too many wars. We have no money. Too many people depend on us, but we are just American poodles. And what about HMS Hood.
Meanwhile, after a thousand years, we are still here, plodding along
September 7, 2021
Jon. NO. The military is not a disaster. Those that send them to needless conflicts are a disaster. We should be proud of all the work our boys and girls do for us. Don’t blame them for the actions of foolish politicians.
September 7, 2021
Elephant in the room article failing to address the realpolitik of the 2001-2021 Afghan campaign from England’s perspective. H.M. Forces weren’t there to nation build, it was there purely as a military adjunct to, & to provide a diplomatic fig-leaf for, a US petrochemical war, following on from others in the Arabian peninsula in the 1990’s. The financial expense to H.M.G. of these operations has been quite high, but not disproportionate, in blood it has been small – with less than 1000 dead. On the positive side these operations have served as useful experience to keep H.M. Forces match-fit; but the negative side is that H.M. Forces appear to have fought indifferently in the later stage of the 2nd Persian Gulf war with the loss of control of Basra, & a failure to pacify the limited districts of Afghanistan it was charged with by the US Command. The cost of militarily supporting the USA’s economic imperium in these wars has been kept at a manageable scale, but with the defeat of its leadership in Afghanistan, the strategic question arises: Does England wish to continue into the 21st century diplomatically & militarily being Washington D.C.’s lapdog on the global stage, or with its withdrawal from the European Union is something more interesting possible?
September 7, 2021
“Interesting” for its own sake is a curse in history, not a strategy. What we will actually do is serve our own interests, even when that means that we appear to serve those of other people.
September 7, 2021
I literally don’t know one Tory (voter) who supports Afghan War.
It was a no brainer 20 years ago that Afghan War was a stupid war. And 20 years later, it is (/ was) still a stupid war.
It was complete hubris in Parliament that sent our troops to Afghan.
September 8, 2021
An excellent summary but I’d like to add a couple of points. Total deaths in WW2 were 55,000,000 and many, perhaps most, were civilians. Russia and Ukraine suffered 20,000,000 deaths during the war on the Eastern Front, where no quarter was given nor pity exercised by either side. Small wonder that Rommel preferred to fight the British. When America entered WW2, they made it clear that they wanted an end to the British Empire, and seized their opportunity at Suez in 1956; the special relationship has not always been apparent. America provided valuable support during the Falklands war but we have Caspar Weinberger at Defence to thank. Jean Kirkpatrick at the UN was blatantly pro-Argentine, Al Haig at the Department of State didn’t want us to bother fighting. Even Ronald Reagan wobbled but Casper Weinberger talked him round. Perhaps we should remove that statue of JFK (no friend of Britain) at Runnymede and replace it with one of Caspar Weinberger. What to do with JFK’s statue? Send it to the Republic of Ireland.
September 8, 2021
What to do with JFK’s statue? Some might say ‘push it in the Thames!’
September 8, 2021
The agenda now is to collapse nation states, Chatham House told us the Chinese are taking over with a fascist vaccine social credit system.
September 8, 2021
Our pathetic puppet politicians will soon be ordered by this satanic masters to push the Chinese socialcsdot system linked to vaccine digital id. The only one we have going forward is ABOLISH career politics.
September 8, 2021
John, the very fact Chatham House etc tells us the future is a Chinese system proves you are all puppets just following a script. You oppose this globalist script but there is not enough of you so you all have to go. Do you agree?