I have no wish to load the prisons with the protesters who block main roads. Some of them want to be sent there to heighten their newsworthiness. There are often too many to send them all. Why should we taxpayers have to pay more to keep them in prison to increase the coverage they get?
A friend this week suggested to me a punishment for deliberately blocking the highway as part of a protest which mightĀ better fit the crime and might be more of a deterrent to many of them. Why not make the penalty the loss of your driving licence? The crime would be deliberately blocking the road as a protest. The police and courts could remove as many licences as there were protesters with licences.
The protesters should welcome this. As they want us all to create less carbon dioxide we would be enabling them to do just that themselves, by banning them from using personal transport in future. It would force them to do as they preach, going by bike or public transport. The ones who do make their own sacrifices already would not mind, whilst many of them who lecture the rest of us how to live but do not follow their own advice would face a disagreeable penalty that did inconvenience them .
What do you think about this?
October 29, 2021
Good Morning,
Come on , surely they should work for FREE for roof insulting and cavity wall filling council departments, and other such socially responsible activities.
PS, how many super-trawlers are now in UK fishing grounds?
October 29, 2021
Yes and over fishing our now under stocked waters. . How green is that?
October 29, 2021
I don’t know if this is relevant in a wider sense but the Russian-Norwegian Fishery Commission(which controls fishing in the Barents Sea-the prime fishing ground for Atlantic cod) has just cut it’s permissable quotas for 2022 by one fifth,albeit this only reverses an increase from a couple of years ago.
October 29, 2021
@Peter Woods; I would not want members of IB anywhere near, often vulnerable, members of the public, even less within their own homes.
As for super-trawlers, I doubt there are many within our non-disputed 12 nmi territorial waters/fishing grounds, though how many are in disputed EEZ’s who knows, and as they are disputed perhaps even the UK trawlers should not be present either!
October 29, 2021
Our EEZ isn’t really disputed. The issue we should be focusing on is the amount of our fish-stocks the EU is allowed to take – not the size of their trawlers. By the way, my ship once boarded one of the ‘super-trawlers’, which was after horse-mackerel in the South West Approaches. It had 8000 tons of the stuff onboard.
October 29, 2021
@S_W: Of cf course the UK EEZ’s are disputed, how could they not be multiple overlaps, check the maps!
October 29, 2021
it is time you did some research Jerry.
In short.there is a 12 mile limit.
If the nations are under 12 miles apart then the distance is divided.
October 30, 2021
@Peter2; Oh do stop trolling, and take your own advice, do some research, such as the difference between the 12 nmi limit and 200 nmi EEZs, it is the latter were disputes will arise post Brexit, given that the UK is no longer bound by the CFP.
For example, the UK is entitled to claim, as an EEZ, an area up to 200 nmi due west off Newquay in Devon, except the ROI can also now claim much the same waters as their EEZ, 200 nmi off the coast of Co. Cork…
October 30, 2021
You refer to a comment that is in opposition to yours as trolling Jerry
Yet you post non stop on here, nearly always with our own contrary opinions.
Does the illogicality of that position not hit you?
Grow up and stop being so sensitive.
Duh and ho hum…as you often say yourself.
October 30, 2021
@Petert2; “Yet you post non stop on here”
So says the person who always has a reply to what ever I say, even though he clearly doesn’t bother to read what he is replying to, thus getting mixed up between territorial limits and EEZ areas. Does the illogicality of your position not hit you? Ho-hum…
“Grow up and stop being so sensitive.”
It will be noted that Peter2 chose to get personal, not debate or dispute the ‘facts’ cited. Whatever.
October 30, 2021
As if to prove my point.
Hilarious Jerry.
October 29, 2021
The Maritime Boundaries and Exclusive Economic Zones are not in disputed, they are agreed by the governments of both the UK and EU (France)…whats in dispute is the number of licenses we issue to foreign vessels allowing them to fish in our EEZ
October 29, 2021
@glen cullen; Fine all the time the old EU28 shared their EEZ’s, times have changed though….
Nor is it just France were disputes could occur, check the maps, easy on Google maps to measure out 200 miles from coastal points and add a bit to make up for a nmi being 1.151 mile (as measured on land).
October 29, 2021
Irrelevant because the UK isn’t in the EU
Did you not realise Jerry?
October 30, 2021
@Peter2; Except it is not irrelevant at all, it is very pertinent to the debate, before Brexit there was one combined EEZ covering the entire EU, certainly were fishing was concerned due to the CFP. As you point it, the UK is no longer in the EU, no longer in the CFP…. Duh!
October 30, 2021
Inside 6 miles of the coast of France or UK is territorial waters.
Licenses are granted to the French and UK fishing boats to fish inside that agreed 6 mile limit.
200 miles would mean French trawlers fishing in the Manchester ship canal.
Duh indeed
October 30, 2021
@Peter2; You really have not grasped this have you, before Brexit, under the previous EU wide EEZ area, the CFP, and other EU polices, yes French, Irish, German, Polish etc. trawlers could have fished in the Manchester ship canal had they wished, it was an accepted (if unpopular) reality of our membership, hence why all the talk was about the problem of Russian factory ships in EU EEZ waters.
October 30, 2021
You fail to grasp the main point that the French v UK dispute is about licenses inside territorial waters.
Your EEZ argument is irrelevant.
October 30, 2021
@Peter2; Oh for pithy sake, did you not actually bother to read what you replied to originally?! Try reading what I said in reply to @Peter Woods, not just what I have said to you or others since, you will note I mentioned both 12 nmi territorial limits and EEZs.
Nor are the EU and UK EEZs irrelevant given that the UK appears to be claiming an EEZ that extends into the Bay of Biscay, no doubt due to the Channel Isles, it is quite possible the French are disputing that EEZ. You really shouldn’t believe the headlines in the tabloids, do some research yourself, wasn’t that what you told others to do only a day or so ago? Duh…. š
October 31, 2021
The dispute is about licensing of French fishing vessels inside our 6 mile limit Jerry.
It’s quite straightforward.
PS
You are getting increasingly agitated and confused by your blizzard of posts.
What is it 25 a day?
October 31, 2021
@Petrer2; Nonsense. By your logic if this was about special fishing licenses these trawlers would also need them to fish in international waters too! The dispute is about controlled territorial limits and EEZs, the latter which might well be now disputed, Without either such license or treaties would not be needed. Clue, if UK trawlers believe they are in a UK EEZ they do not need licenses, if French trawlers believe they are within a French EEZ they do not need licenses. Anyway, wasn’t the seized UK trawler impounded for attempting to land their catch, not whilst fishing, a totally different issue.
October 29, 2021
Correct glen.
I’m always surprised how many people do not understand the law on Maritime Boundaries and EEZ.
October 29, 2021
Given the contamination around British waters, the ports they return to should condemn their catch. They won’t come back again after that.
October 29, 2021
The “they” are often “us” in that regard Dave.
Whitstable’s oyster industry has been very severely damaged by Southern Water’s offences, and by the consequent tests failures by their produce.
However, my understanding is that SW have now been given carte blanche to continue – and indeed to worsen – their pollution by the recent Tory vote on such discharges.
October 29, 2021
Indeed.
JR overlooks that fact that public transport is often rather less green than taking a small efficient car especially a full one. They go directly door to door can carry up to 7+ people + luggage, do not need professional drivers and staff or need double connections at each end, make indirect journeys in general. In the case of buses they are often empty or almost and stop every few hundred yards blocking the roads for others. Bus lanes too are hugely damaging but good cash cows for government mugging schemes.
October 29, 2021
Why does XR get so much coverage? It’s a tiny group of activists. I know why –
This PM will no doubt agree with the views and actions of XR, as would the BBC and the Green zealots who now populate our ruling establishment.
I have no doubt that the State itself has become an activist in its own right. I can see it with my own eyes. I saw it with BLM and I can see it with XR. Both promote a cause Boris Johnson and Parliament eagerly promote themselves.
All is politicised, all of civil, social, economic and moral life is dragged kicking and screaming into the political arena without our permission. Laws passed. Victimhood encouraged. Demonisation encouraged. Social division invoked ie vax v. anti-vax. All of this politics comes straight from both this government and Labour. Marxist strategy has one purposes..divide and conquer. Johnson’s embraced it with gusto
If Parliament can pass laws to crush freedom of expression for the ‘little man’ they can pass laws to smash XR into next week..they don’t because XR and the State is now one and the same
October 29, 2021
DOM, +1, Youāre right, And BBC news was pure propaganda this morning.
October 29, 2021
+ another.
October 29, 2021
+1
I am of the same opinion. The Johnson regimes actions, and more specifically its lack of, speaks louder than its weaselly words
October 29, 2021
Dom, isn’t it just because they’re in London near the major tv studios and news reporters?
I too believe this is done with the government’s nod to green otherwise it would just be stopped.
October 29, 2021
I agree that a not so ‘Green’ PM would ensure this obstruction was stopped pronto.
October 29, 2021
+ several billion.
WOOOHOOO!
Of COURSE these āprotestsā would not happen without government backing!
If anyone disbelieves this just try your own mini motorway Freedom/anti forced jab or whatever protest.
Bruises, concussion and heavy, sharp-edged handcuffs will follow.
Whatever happens it only happens because the government wants it to happen!!
October 29, 2021
Bang on the money, Dom.
Insulate Britain are State actors and police chiefs are on their side – we have seen the proof. You dare sit in the road complaining about tax…
Of which Ā£3000 pa is the start of our pain (to fund unreformed State services) … then there’s inflation, then there’s interest rate rises to come.
You’d think Boris would lax off the Greenism a bit because we’re going to have to cut back drastically on what we consume and what we do anyway. Alas no.
Britain has to be the world leaders in hair shirt wearing.
Boris is a posh boy – like the girl wanting to pretend she’s poor out of the Jarvis Cocker (Pulp) song Common People… he can make a phone call to family get himself out of the damp digs.
He just smiled and held my hand… ’cause he didn’t under-stand.
October 29, 2021
@DOM +1. It is weird ‘freedom of expression’ is against the law – terrorist actions are not while we have a religious cult in office
October 29, 2021
XR does appear to have a special relationship with our government, the police and the home office with their softly softly hand off approach
October 29, 2021
Indeed the PM has been driven mad by Covid and Carrie. Deluded Classics and Theatre Studies graduates who thing they understand “The Net Zero Science”.
Damn fools who in reality do not have a clue. Politically insane too.
October 29, 2021
Spot on analysis. XR’s Gail Bradbrooke was a “witness” at a BEIS select committee on how to move more quickly towards economic suicide, otherwise known as Net Zero. In answer to the driving licence question, a reasonable idea, but still requiring court time. I would favour collecting them off the road into coaches and driving them to remote locations and make them find their own way home. A repeatable therapy.
October 29, 2021
Absolutely correct Don.
We are being subjected to relentless propaganda from every corner of the Establishment. And if you don’t accept their Agenda, you are demonised.
I no longer believe this country is run along democratic lines. It’s a one-party Lib Lab Green CON State which is not run for the benefit of the BRTISH people.
October 29, 2021
The fact that Extinction Re-bell-ends and Inkulate Britain (i did enjoy seeing those green and purple faces in images from the recent action by irate road users!) aren’t being prosecuted may lead people to think that both are acting with the covert approval of Bozo Johnson? One might be forgiven for coming eo that conclusion I feel.
October 29, 2021
100% in agreement. Like so many of these leftwing libtard demonstrators, WHO is funding them.
October 29, 2021
I think its a great idea. Let them have a taste of their own medicine.
They say they want to save the planet, but they have shown a total ( and sometimes, callous) disregard of the rights of others. We should act now!
October 29, 2021
They still arrive by car to the protest sites without any sense of irony.
With Boris they are pushing at an open door so I would ship them to China and let them protest there.
October 29, 2021
Clamp their cars and fine them Ā£500 for release.
October 29, 2021
@Cheshire Girl – sleight problem driving without a licence nowadays seems to come out as a misdemeanor. However, take away the mobile phones and internet access they then have no way to organise.
October 29, 2021
And by the way, the vile BBC’s rehabilitation of Rayner and her portrayal as a victim of those nasty abusive voters is utterly repugnant. This politician and those like her are a disgrace to public life and our nation. She encourages and promotes bigotry and then is portrayed as the victim. It stinks to high heaven
The BBC is now simply Labour’s propaganda unit as the above evidently shows.
I have given up hoping that the Tories dismantle Labour’s client state. Their refusal to reform all that has built since 1997 will mean one thing, totalitarianism and don’t think they can’t happen either because it can. There’s an air of revenge in today’s political class and their lackeys
October 29, 2021
+1 Although Chav totalitarianism is at least a novel political philosophy.
October 29, 2021
Dictatorship of the Poletariat?
(Or at least those anti-bourgeois bourgeois types who claim to act in the interests of the Proletariat!)
October 29, 2021
Raynor the poor little victim. Yet no support for the Sussex professor. She resigned today after being hounded out by a mob. Anyone identified and punished for her hounding. Any support for her from our parliamentarians. The least the University could do is identify the mob, I am sure they could, then expel them.
October 29, 2021
What “rehabilitation”?
The woman did nothing wrong whatsoever by normal behavioural standards, but simply used “unparliamentary” language.
So there’s nothing to rehabilitate.
October 31, 2021
Normal behavioural standards are not appropriate to someone who would be in government, who could be in a position of representing and leading the country.
Her actions and language are the only basis the rest of us have to judge her and her party and they expose a disturbing lack of concern and consideration for the 38% of voters in her constituency who voted Conservative. despite the duty of an MP to represent all their constituents equally regardless of their vote.
Clearly she believes anyone who doesn’t think the same as she is “homophobic, racist, misogynistic ā¦ scum” and not worthy of her consideration. But then she can’t be very bright to say such things and expect no consequences. Such a person should not be in any position of authority whatsoever.
October 29, 2021
+1
Something similar happened during the May era.
An MP was treated to verbal outside Parliament.
A great fuss ensued ā¦probably to prove how vulnerable the poor MPs are!
And to oil the wheels for the Online Harms Bill?
Nudge, nudge,nudge!
October 29, 2021
I said the unsayable and it got moderated out of existence on a site than isn’t Left and isn’t BBC. No worry.
Just apply the same in reverse, Dom. How would the BBC have reacted to that ?
Fact is… ALL of the ‘truth’ is in reverse these days.
October 29, 2021
Look at the protests (including road blocking) that are pandered to and tolerated by the police and you know exactly which protests are promoting/helping government policy.
The treatment meted out to those who protest against government policy is barbaric so we can only conclude that road blocking is helpful to those in charge.
It prevents travel by diesel and petrol.
It dismays and frustrates, distresses and demotivates.
It empties offices, threatens businesses and forces work from home.
It also encourages people to want to ban ALL protests ( which govt. is doing.)
It is yet another sneaky, horrible, cruel ānudgeā to get compliance.
( Is it legal to use psychological warfare against us?)
And to think that Agenda 21/30 was always denounced as a āconspiracy theoryā!
I
October 29, 2021
Everhopeful, +1, Youāre not wrong nor are you exaggerating.
October 29, 2021
+1
and so damned obvious
October 29, 2021
+1
Why is Sir John tinkering around punishment ? The laws to keep the highways clear are already there.
There is no way the removal of driving licence for an offence that is not driving related be countenanced.
That precedent would mean that any one of us could have our driving licence taken away for non-driving offences.
These people will not make popular martyrs. So send them to prison as the law allows. They are putting lives at risk.
November 2, 2021
I think it’s a good idea to take their driving licence away for one year.
October 29, 2021
@DOM +1
October 29, 2021
in the wrong place
October 29, 2021
@Everhopeful +1
October 29, 2021
UN Agenda 21 is no longer science fiction but is now science fact
October 29, 2021
A clue. The people you can parody in BBC comedy.
Those AREN’T your oppressors.
October 29, 2021
Yes, Citizen Smith was a prime example.
October 29, 2021
An excellent idea, but will those without licences get off scot free? How about a term of house arrest to keep them away from the long suffering public? I would be tempted to give heavy fines too, to help repay the police costs being incurred by the taxpayer. I doubt there is a way to compensate the public they have caused hardship to, by denying them hospital visits and work.
October 29, 2021
The problem with fines is that if they are not paid, you get sent to prison anyway.
You can bet that these idiots will want to be martyrs and won’t pay.
I think taking away their driving licences is a great idea but I would go further and give them a community service order to carry out work very close to where they live so that they don’t need to drive. Many of them look old enough to have a bus pass.
October 29, 2021
Good morning.
Nice idea, Sir John. And what about those who do not have, or already have lost the Driving License ? May I add something else that might dissuade them. Allow members of the general public and private business to pursue them for unlimited damages. They would have to spend more time in Court then protesting. Oh ! And deny them any legal aid.
As I sit here writing, outside it is raining. I wonder how many protesters will be out today ?
October 29, 2021
Civil action would be a good way to address it, then it will be clear their actions are against their fellow citizens, not the government.
I guess they might be reluctant to disclose their name and address.
October 29, 2021
āIf thereās anything you need donāt hesitate to let us know. Like a nice cup of tea? Oh by the way hand over your driving licence!ā
Not very likely.
Whoever gives the orders would have to take this on board and change the entire prevailing narrative.
Climate Change Protest Good.
Freedom and Democracy Protest Bad!
October 29, 2021
Rather similar toā¦
Totally legal, jabbed and tested travel abroad BAD.
Unregulated, illegitimate entry GOOD!
Overseen by the same government department?
October 29, 2021
@EH; No one has ever said unregulated, illegitimate entry onto the UK is good, just very difficult to stop, even during the most fraught days of WW2 (with the threat of invasion believed imminent) can we be sure no German spy’s landed by boat on our coastline.
October 29, 2021
@Jerry
Except that German spies didn’t get assistance from the Border Force and RNLI to enter in broad daylight and then get free transport to a free 4 star hotel with cash benefits etc. etc.
October 29, 2021
JR
Wonderful.š¤
Thanks!
October 29, 2021
jerry
We can be sure hundreds of thousands didnāt.
October 29, 2021
+1
October 29, 2021
@Barbara; Can we, do we really know all the unknown-unknowns, those who suggest they do are just guessing, more likely lying, whilst so often having a good rant.
October 29, 2021
If the government wanted to stop itā¦.they would.
October 30, 2021
@EH; Well yes, the UK govt could ignore international law, it could even fortify the entire coast line like in WW2, but I’m not sure the latter will go down well with either locals nor holiday makers. Never mind the complexity of what you ask, as was once said in a different context, the govt needs to be lucky all the time, those who wish to abuse our hospitality only need to be lucky once.
October 29, 2021
Itās the disparity between the policing of XR Extinction Rebellion and the policing of AntiVax, Football Matches, Covid Lockdown and Freedom Marches
October 29, 2021
+1
October 29, 2021
Definitely remove their licence although the Human rights lawyers would have a field day and we would most likely end up paying enormous sums of money in compensation. Also they would continue to drive anyway. They obviously have no respect for the law or anyone abiding with it. We should also remove any state benefit that is being given as it is clearly not needed but once again the lawyers would be drooling.
So I say again get us out of the ECHR. Repeal the Act. It Is outdated, it has served its purpose and clearly abused by anyone wanting to harm this country.
Replace it with a Bill of Rights which is linked to personal responsibility.
October 29, 2021
+1 – the ECHR exists to protect criminals, not their victims and the safety of other people.
October 29, 2021
BW, +1
October 29, 2021
100%, I agree!
October 29, 2021
This government will never repeal our membership of ECHR, it may not be directly associated with the EU but itās the psychological link to the EU that they must preserve
October 29, 2021
I’m afraid your argument falls down from the phrase “The ones who do make their own sacrifices already would not mind” ie no punishment at all!!
This will be a difficult one to grapple with until a Ministerial car is subject to a long hold up when the answer will be swiftly found!
Prison may mot be the answer, but huge fines, tagging and community service will surely be required soon.
October 29, 2021
@Peter; What will be the fall-back plan for those who refuse to turn up for their community service work but go to another protest – if jail is not an option?
There are many people in prison for civil or financial crimes who perhaps should not be in prison [1], who are actually far more suitable for tagging and community service orders, how about we conditionally release such people from jail if jail capacity is the problem?
[1] there are many people in jail serving sentences for ‘crimes’ that were never planed, often just an accident of fate or a lapse of thought ended up in court, on the other hand every single protest by those who have blocked roads lately are pre planned.
October 29, 2021
Not all of them might have a driving licence but, in the round, a jolly good idea! Not that the police force or government would be keen to implement such a measure.
October 29, 2021
Yes good idea. Extremists always discredit an argument .I often cringed when remainers accused Brexit voters of being racists ( whilst doing it myself ….yes I am lovably imperfect ), the language was ridiculous .It was also not true other than of a tiny minority.
The Conservative Party has always loved the opposition of the absurd and sanctimonious fringe . Loony left councils , cancelling Universities. In fact in the absence of any convenient bogeyman they will invent one. I suppose it is this attachment to moderation I miss now the always-angry Brexit Party blights our days . The sort of conservatism one finds in Jane Austen more than in the dense thickets of some academic bore – fest. Gone now , of course , Boris Johnson`s role is pretend it has not .That is his secret.
October 29, 2021
Indeed. I would say overblown denigration of leave voters and the concept of leave was the reason remain lost. A better argument would have been: itās not perfect, there are good arguments on both sides, but the U.K. has an opt out from the most integrationalist project (the euro); if we vote to leave it will inevitably be disruptive and even a majority Conservative / Brexit supporting govt wonāt actually do anything to move the U.K. significantly away from the EUās statist model (which appears now to be the case).
October 29, 2021
I understand what you are getting at, John, but even though it’s quite early in the morning, I can think of several ways of circumventing that kind of punishment. Rather than incurring the expense of prison, why not sentence the idiots to some kind of house-arrest, making them wear an electronic tag to prevent them leaving a delineated area?
And I still fail to understand 1) how thoroughly enraging the general public is meant to achieve the protestors’ aims, and 2) how, according to the media, the offenders have not yet been charged – the police have witnessed their actions, and in many cases it has been filmed, so why the delays?
October 29, 2021
A much better idea. Confine them to their homes, and give them ASBOs. But first we need actual charges and prosecutions. Without that, they will carry on repeat offending. The law allows heavy fines to. Nothing wrong with sentencing for that either.
October 29, 2021
OK. Seeing as my first comment got moderated (fair enough) may I say this ?
What Newmania’s type said about us being racists was not loveable.
It made me vote for Brexit.
Newmania’s type caused Brexit and now they bitch and moan about it. They were given almost a decade of warning that they were pushing us too far.
October 29, 2021
I want them imprisoned – for long enough a time that they reflect on their utter selfishness. And I want prompt action taken by the police in London this afternoon against any protesters getting between me and ENO’s ‘HMS Pinafore’. And I want activist trouble-makers turned away from our airports if they try and enter the country, to abuse our hospitality.
Protesters should be directed to Speaker’s Corner or invited to hire a football stadium for the afternoon. Their ‘right’ to protest shouldn’t be allowed to trump my rights to go about my business.
October 29, 2021
+1
October 29, 2021
Agreed. I doubt many drive anyway and that penalty has nothing to do with the crime.
They should be held in police cells overnight, up before the beak in the morning – given a Ā£1000 fine, a criminal record and sent to a remote prison for a week to reflect on their callous activities effecting the public who may well be visiting hospitals, interviews, unvisited relatives for months etc.
A protest march around Westminster would have been justified challenge to the Government but the present action does nothing to encourage state consideration.
October 29, 2021
oops affecting … I got too emotional and forgot to spell.
October 29, 2021
Fully Agree
October 29, 2021
There is already a perfectly appropriate offence of Public Nuisance, which ought to cover all your demands.
If the police are consistently failing to act to prevent and to prosecute for Public Nuisance, then there should be an inquiry as to why at the highest level, and those failing to ensure that they do should be subject to appropriate sanction, in my view.
The police, yet again, seem, by their respective actions/inactions to be misleading the public as to the law. I think that they have their own highly political agenda, and that its aims are far from compatible with the general public interest.
It seems to me to be aimed at engendering public sympathy for a State where the police have great arbitrary power and little accountability, on the pretext that there is nothing that they can do now with the law as it stands. That would in fact be a gross travesty of the truth.
October 29, 2021
+1
Very well said.
Some years back a policeman told me that children who had erected a skateboard ramp in the road and were boinging up and down it amid angry traffic, had an absolute right to do so. Obstruction of the highway surely IS a crime?
Something most odd going on.
Is it the adoption of āleading beyond authorityā aka Common Purpose?
Or are orders received directly from (whom?) because the protests suit the agenda?
October 29, 2021
How many of these protesters actually have driving licenses, how many who do still own/use a motor vehicle, only the one who scarpers having dropped the rest off I suspect.
I disagree with this ‘no jail’ idea, the likes of IB & ER etc. are basically economic terrorists, they might not kill people (at least not directly) but they do terrorise , such as that poor lady who could not get to see her dying mother the other week, or those who were waiting for that ambulance that got caught up in the congestion caused by another attack. I take your point about jail capacity but the Home Office have no problem ‘jailing’ suspected illegal migrants and find detention facilities to suit. As for publicity, whatever the punishment such people will use it to further their cause, that is unfortunately the price of living in a free democracy, after all we do not fail to jail other terrorists simply because they might become a living martyr.
October 29, 2021
Rather than moaning at the demonstrators, this pensioner government of the minority should listen to them.
Whilst glueing yourself to a motorway is not my cup of tea, the protesters have a not particularly controversial cause – they want to get Britainās housing stock properly insulated within a decade. The Tories promised net zero in their manifesto. You literally need to do what these demonstrators are demanding to reach your manifesto pledge. Insulate Britain are at least trying to get the Pensioners to do something useful, which would be a first.
Certainly the demonstrators are making a far more important contribution to our country than any Brexitist I have ever encountered. The Brexitists are still whinging about fish, Northern Ireland and are generally embarrassing our country with their pathetic huffing and puffing. The demonstrators are showing a better way forward.
It would be far better to put members of this useless government in prison. And one day we will.
October 29, 2021
Oh dear, another anti-pensioner rant. Tell me, do you spend all of your day watching ‘Logan’s Run’, cheering on the sand=men?
October 29, 2021
Andy
Perhaps if they insulated their own houses they may be taken a little more seriously, reports are that many of the protesters have not yet done so, some have even admitted to that as a matter of fact.
If you are causing obstruction, then the police should act immediately and not pussy foot around, arrest them, and charge them, continuing repeated offences should eventually lead to prison, cheaper to keep them in there, than for the cost of delays which they cause.
October 29, 2021
Ask your French friends if we can have our fishing boat back please Andy.
October 29, 2021
Amazing how the French can stop a trawler but not a dinghy.
October 29, 2021
Brilliant!!!
October 29, 2021
I read a couple of Roman statues have been found digging up a church in the path of HS2. Must be worth Ā£120bn.
October 29, 2021
Don’t you just get the impression that the government wants us all to pay for the remaining houses to be insulated and that is why these eco-warriors are allowed to continue.
Here are the statistics.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/970064/Detailed_Release_-_HEE_stats_18_Mar_2021_FINAL.pdf
The average cost of roof insulation is Ā£450 – see mybuilder.com it is a smart way to help keep heat in your home and cut your energy bills, especially if you want your loft or attic to be a usable space. DIY would be a lower cost. Wall insulation is around Ā£200 per two-storey wall
I would expect all housing associations and council housing have this insulation on the homes they rent out, they make money renting these properties out why are they spending the money on the people that run them on super high salaries, their offices and staff and not on the properties that are rented out, many of which they bought for buttons.
If the ‘at the end of 2020, 14.3 million properties had cavity wall insulation (70 per cent of properties with a cavity wall), 16.6 million had loft insulation (66 per cent of properties with a loft) and 772,000 had solid wall insulation (nine per cent of properties with solid walls)’ are private homes why should the taxpayer pay for someone to profit from it when they sell the home and benefit from the energy savings? We give soft loans to elderly people already to fix their properties which are only repaid + interest when they pass their home on.
‘Between January 2013 and December 2020, energy efficiency measures were installed in:
ā¢ 2,201,215 properties under the Energy Company Obligation (ECO);
ā¢ 13,830 properties using a GD Finance Plan;
ā¢ 35,347 properties using the Green Deal Home Improvement Fund (GDHIF) ā closed 2016;
ā¢ 15,564 properties using GD Communities funding – closed 2016; and
ā¢ 14,743 properties following the redemption of Cashback vouchers – closed 2014.’
October 29, 2021
Andy, you frequently suggest that members of the government should be imprisoned for enacting the result of the Brexit referendum. You didn’t (couldn’t?) answer last time I asked, but under which law could they be prosecuted?
October 29, 2021
Oh they DO listen to them, Andy.
How about those Brexitists driving lorries and vans stuck in traffic jams behind these people who seem to have a lot of free time on their hands ?
Aren’t they contributing more ?
October 29, 2021
All pensioners should be put in prison. All 17.4 million who voted to Leave should be in there too. Mind you, that would cost a lot more than paying the pittance of a state pension.
Boris is not a pensioner. Nor is he a member of ‘this useless government’. I don’t know exactly what his role is – some sort of cheerleader role from what I can make out.
October 29, 2021
I’d sooner live in a prison full of fellow pensioners than in a flat as a state pensioner on my own !
Bring it on !
Prisoners get fed a lot better than our servicemen !!! Fish cheeks for submariners – the flanks for prisoners (this per the programme done by Heston Blumenthal.)
October 29, 2021
With cost of living going up so much this winter, food, heating, council tax, fuel for CH and car….I can imagine a number of single pensioners considering a crime that will do little harm to anyone, but get them a comfortable warm cell, hot meals, tv , games, books and companionship – ideally for 4 or 5 months.
Any ideas or is that ‘assisting, supporting, or helping another to commit a crime’ ?
October 29, 2021
@Andy; Let me try again….
Appeasement never works, giving into threats just leads to more threats.
Nor is insulation the answer, excess insulation can actually cause health issues (the answer being to fit vents to the outside air, go figure…), most UK homes built with or upgraded since the 1980s already have more than enough insulation, an end to the climate scare and the return to cheap energy is real answer to fuel poverty
October 29, 2021
I’ve owned two houses with cavity wall insulation – both with damp issues, especially in the loft space.
Avoid at all costs.
October 29, 2021
You can tell when I get days off, Andy. Almost posting as much as you do EVERY day.
Do I not contribute to the country then ?
October 29, 2021
If their problem is with government, why don’t they go and blockade Downing Street and Whitehall? How about Chequers? Why subject ordinary members of the public to their nuisance?
If it’s climate change they’re complaining about, why can’t they choose their targets more precisely? How about blockading the Channel from invaders bringing their carbon footprint? What about doing sit-ins at building sites? All that energy intensive cement, well we could do without that. Ruining green pasture to be replaced with concrete. Plus even more poo going into sewerage systems that can’t cope with the current load.
As to removing the protestors from roads, pass a law that empowers ordinary citizens to remove them, using reasonable force if necessary.
October 29, 2021
Agreed, their protest locations coupled with police failure to clear the protestors from highways does also rather give the game away and that their actions may well be ‘sanctioned’
October 29, 2021
+1
October 29, 2021
DA: +1
October 29, 2021
No , this is not a good way of revealing an individual hypocrisy of a problem which affects everyone. Not one person is innocent of overuse of our earths resources .There are degrees of the problem and it is inconvenient to have roads blocked , but they simply should be moved on, That is newsworthy in itself.
October 29, 2021
These people are unlikely to be drivers. The police arrive and protect them. Just keep the police away and let held up drivers deal with them.
XR protesters could be put in an army lorry and driven to a camp on Salisbury Plain where they could be tethered, housed in ecologically neutral tents and fed on baked beans for three weeks.
October 29, 2021
You didn’t mention being shouted at in regular intervals by a team of Sergeant Majors!
October 29, 2021
Why not seize their cars too? Then they couldn’t get another driver to transport them. They are a damned nuisance and endanger others lives. Get tough. Most people would applaud a tougher stance. Please God, get this COP26 rubbish out of the way. We are being bombarded from every angle. I notice school children being ultra brainwashed too.
October 29, 2021
A law should be introduced to stop children under the age of 16 being used in any political propaganda, staged performance, interview or depiction
October 29, 2021
Yes, I noticed the brainwashing of children, and from the PM of all people. Shameful!
October 29, 2021
That reminds me of those eco fanatics that camped out a couple of years ago, but were arriving in diesel run 4×4’s etc and using diesel generators on their ‘campsites’. Hypocrisy writ large.
So I am inclined to think a fitting retribution to their political blackmail is to add an additional 25% to their energy bills. A case of living up to their green credentials. Plus a (no advance notice given) of a full inspection of all their electrical household equipment and also their cars. If any of them fail to meet the highest eco standards, the details are made public with an explanation why this has been made public. Plus they will only allowed to use green power (that means no gas supply) and when the wind doesn’t blow or when there is no sun, their power is cut off.
In short, inconvenience them, shame them for their hypocrisy and make them live and experience their utopian dream that they want to force on others.
October 29, 2021
The head of the eco insulate mob is on record stating he doesn’t have their preferred insulation and that this should be funded by government..
Are they so thick they don’t know the only money governments has, comes from taxation. Which means they want it to be paid for by taxpayers. I can only assume from their road blocking availability, few if any are actually in full-time paid employment, but they expect those who are, should not only pay to insulate their own homes, but also theirs as well!
And my points above apply to them as well.
October 29, 2021
I suggest that the Irritate Britain protesters are continuing to defy injunctions and preventing others from carrying out their lawful activities because there is a lack of punishment for their actions. I don’t recall hearing of any of the protesters even being fined, but it was reported that one had been arrested eleven times.
Don’t dismiss prison, the first few jailed might revel in the publicity but the novelty would fade both for the protesters and the media.
October 29, 2021
It would not work if they do not have a driving licence. Instead of prison, how about a period of quarantine in a locked hotel room with NHS food? For entertainment I suggest a recording of that man seen playing the bagpipes to some of them the other day be piped into their rooms 20 hours a day.
October 29, 2021
Withdraw the police. They are helping them break the law after all, are clearly in sympathy with.
October 29, 2021
I think you have moved on from the monetary disaster situation rather too quickly. Banning them from using fossil fuel transport would mean other people having to be even more economically active to support them. Why not ban them from using heating in their homes so that they have to go out to work and do their bit to earn a tax reduction sometime never? That’ll learn them!
October 29, 2021
What about those with no driving license?
What about 3 months of community work. Could be picking up litter, cleaning up generally. Weeding, mowing grass verges etc?
October 29, 2021
How many of those losing their licences would be professional drivers? Apart from the penalty being a harsh one for them,. many are greatly needed at present.
October 29, 2021
The suggestion has merit.
The only problem is that I could see this penalty being used for other punishments. You know how these things escalate – if courts are allowed to ban us from driving from non-driving related crimes. How far do you go in removing rights when someone needs to be punished?
Shouldn’t the penalty always be related to the crime?
For example, as the health passport comes in, penalties will most certainly be added to the crime of being unvaccinated. A vast number of ‘incentives’ could be added to the list of not being able to visit restaurants and large venues.
Once we start down this slope where will it end?
October 29, 2021
Good point Bryan. Community service with a payback on their cost to the economy on good deads. Divide the money lost on their campaigns between them all divide by the minimum wage that is the work the local state needs back off them.
October 29, 2021
Baton charges by riot-squads, water cannon, pepper spray – – all quite good ideas?
October 29, 2021
Maybe the police could introduce a nice cup of tea, a scone and a kind word ā they canāt fight against that level of sympathyā¦.theyāll just disperse quietly and reflect upon their naughtiness, no doubt with a letter to the guardian
Ohā¦theyāve already tried that approach but they came back the next day
October 29, 2021
@Bryan Harris +1 agreed to much mission creep by an out of control political/elite class. You could reason this terrorist action is nigh on equal to the contempt Government show the people of the UK.
October 30, 2021
“Terrorism”?
Just how easily scared are you?
October 29, 2021
There are many lawbreakers and nuisances for whom prison would be no deterrent. Many would value their martyrdom. There are many crimes for which prison is a costly reaction to taxpayers but crime must not pay and victims (the public in this case) deserve some compensation or retribution.
Their penalty MUST be a loss of personal freedom so tagging, house arrest might work except weāve already seen their preparedness to break the law, so Iām afraid it must be a criminal record and a term in prison. Perhaps we could build an inexpensive āPublic Nuisance Facilityā or a āShame Centreā where theyāre all held and required to work all day.
October 29, 2021
We can sit and discuss all sorts of different ways of punishing/holding these climate change terrorists to account, but it’s pointless.
If the Establishment wanted to stop them blocking motorways and disrupting the traffic, they would. The laws are there; they just need to be enforced. The fact that they have been allowed to continue their campaign for a month now is a clear indication that the Establishment is supportive of the purpose of their campaign (highlighting the climate “crisis” they are currently obsessed with) and will therefore tolerate their methods.
I’d rather discuss how we deal with an Establishment which is determined to make the British people colder, poorer and have a far lower quality of life, when they DO know that any actions we take in the UK will make no difference whatsoever to the global climate.
October 29, 2021
Donna +1
October 29, 2021
Hear, hear.
Our political class across the UK and their bureaucratic masters are complicit but conceal their involvement very well by playing both sides of the debate.
Those governing those nation are out of control, they now have unlimited powers to what they like, when they like and target whoever they like
Welcome to MARXISM Western style and EVERY PARTY IS DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE
People voted for totalitarianism in 1929. Well, they’re now walking into the same trap and it’s utterly heartbreaking
October 29, 2021
“Both” sides being a distorted weighting – by having an over-represented minority opinion appear on a panel compared to the real support they have in wider society.
This is why Brexit caught so many Islington types out. The BBC amplifier let them down.
They really believed the three-person-for-this vs the one-person-for-that panel.
Johnson/Sunak are playing the same dangerous game.
October 29, 2021
@Donna, +1 – yes an over zealous evangelistic religious cult has highjacked Government and not once have they sort permission to use the powers we lent them. Give us back our democracy, Government for the people by the people and all that
October 29, 2021
Donna :
Agreed.
October 29, 2021
+1
King Canute had more sense than Johnson, he knew his limitations, Johnson thinks he can control the weather by removing our little bit of CO2 from the World’s atmosphere, when that gesture will be made insignificant by the increased fossil fuel use elsewhere. For that insignificant , irrelevant gesture he is going to plough in trillions of money we don’t have, how monumentally stupid is that?
When you look around at the many inconsistencies of their argument, eg like we have to live impoverished lives , give up meat instead eat insect burgers , stop heating our homes , stop driving etc to become more sustainable, but then at the same time we have loads of spare resources to accommodate millions of immigrants and asylum seekers…excuse me how does that logic work?
It all makes you think there is something else at work here, cheap energy freed us up , car and air travel liberated us, these they want to remove from us, but at the same time we have Rishi Sunak bringing in the electronic money Britcoin , which can be easily converted into a social credit system. We have the NHS prying into our lives over diet and exercise. Covid where the state has removed many of our liberties , makes you think it is all about control, the greenery just another excuse to interfere in our lives. They want to put us back in our serf boxes that the industrial revolution liberated us from.
October 29, 2021
Someone asked yesterday:”How long will it take for the populace to awaken from their torpor?”
I fear they may not.A line spoken by Sonya in Chekhov’s Uncle Vanya:
“We shall live through a long chain of days and weary evenings;we shall patiently bear the trials which fate sends us…and when our time comes we shall die without a mumur.”
Most of you will probably know what Chekhov’s later plays foreshadowed.There is,I believe, a powerful(if possibly subconscious) reason why Chekhov is so ubiquitous on the British stage.
October 29, 2021
The British sense of justice, fair play, tolerance and upholding the law died peacefully a few years ago. Sadly missed by all those who remember.
October 29, 2021
You mean, if the establishment don’t protect and safeguard our freedoms, maybe they should lose their freedoms? That might provide an incentive!
October 29, 2021
Donna, excellent.
October 29, 2021
Donna, +1
October 29, 2021
Buy some more water canon. and use them this time.
October 29, 2021
Or just douse them in cold water. It is used to break down Royal Marine candidates with great effect and I don’t think it breaches any law.
October 29, 2021
And hey. Leave them glued to the road and feed and water them. Leave them there after they’ve pooed and wet themselves. Tell the public this is the plan.
The public will understand and the protesters will be reluctant to do it again.
October 29, 2021
ask any HGV drivers if we could offer them their handy front-seat bottle for you know what, then pour it over them.
October 29, 2021
The existing laws should apply and existing remedies most likely rising levels of fines and community service although persistent cases ultimately inevitably will result in custodial sentences.
October 29, 2021
Excellent idea. 6 months ban for each day of disruption. Could kick them off public transport also for serious disruption.
Itās a complete waste of resources to put them in prison.
October 29, 2021
A silly idea with so many holes in it. Those without a licence? Those who will escape the court for all sorts of reasons. Policing it? The difficulty of getting it through this parliament.
Insulate them in prison. Prison in this case should be punishment for the offence of causing a nuisance or worse, and to act as a deterrent to others. Lock ’em up and lose the key. They won’t like it up em.
October 29, 2021
Not sure how would that stop them from continuing to cause mayhem on our roads. Surely the only sure way is to lock them away. The cost would be small fry compared to the hundreds of billions this Government are squandering on other things.
October 29, 2021
If they live near London this is no punishment at all. You’d need to take their public transport passes off them and you couldn’t do that. Rural and suburb protestors would get a suitable punishment from that. You could take their passports for a year no flights, boats and other nasty polluter trips.
Wouldn’t they get community service anyway? I believe Glasgow and Brighton have a big need for rubbish collectors. Give a team of them a large wheely bin each and an area to circle back to the nearest rubbish tip, they’ll be happy because that is very green. They seem to just have too much time on their hands to hold everyone else up in their work. I’m sure if you ask the public to nominate clear up areas in their towns and window cleaning you’d get a full list of activities sharpish.
October 29, 2021
Far too sensible to be taken forward, but also too far from the normal penalty for non driving offences. It seems simpler and more effective to fine them in relation to the damage they cause. If that means they lose their homes and assets and savings so be it. Let them live on the streets if they are so keen on sitting on them.
October 29, 2021
With the cost to the economy reaching Ā£1 million perhaps we should make the fine for such protests Ā£10,000 and if they cannot pay, send in the Bailiffs.
I am OK with allowing peaceful protests but these shouldn’t be without the participants having to bear the cost implications of such actions on others etc.
October 29, 2021
Who breaks a butterfly on a wheel?
The right to protest is enshrined in our unwritten constitution. Patel proposes to restrict this basic right in the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill, now before parliament. Should this bill be passed un-amended, we are on a slippery slope to totalitarian government here in the UK. Where any protest can be deemed “illegal” by the police and the protesters can be violently assaulted, handcuffed and imprisoned with impunity – as in Belarus, Hong Kong, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, Hungary etc…..there is a wider issue here.
The Insulate Britain protests are indeed inconvenient to road users. The protesters themselves seem to be respectable middle-class folk. Here is a sensible solution. Why not do what they want, negotiate with them and insulate Britain’s housing stock? They claim that this cost effective measure will do more to reduce our carbon emisions than anything else. They may well be right.
October 29, 2021
Oh well SG if these people are respectable middle class folk then that’s just OK
Let them break the law.
November 3, 2021
SG so everyone that stops traffic should be negotiated with and appeased! Or is that just with things you personally agree with?
Why don’t the ‘middle class folk’ and all the other eco supporters dip their hands in their pockets open up a ‘go fund us page’ and raise the funds Ā£450 per roof if they use a builder (or do the work DIY in people’s homes for free with the time, they obviously have plenty of spare).
October 29, 2021
While the fishing row with France simmers on, the issue of who owns UK fishing quota is becoming more important. Much of our quota was purchased by the owners of Foreign vessels in the 1990s and some of those boats operate under a British flag but employ no British seafarers and don’t land their catch here.
We need to reset our quota regime at the same time as we build a fleet of new boats to be leased to British skippers on favourable terms. We cannot just take away quota from owners who legitimately bought it up to thirty years ago but we could announce a major change to take place in, say five to ten years time.
Announce a date to bring an end to the current quota regime. From that date, all British quota needs to be owned and operated by British flagged vessels, operated by British registered and owned companies employing at least 65% British crews, including a number of apprentices. Foreign owners would be free to sell their quota in the intervening period for whatever they can get for it. Obviously the sooner they sell it, the more money they will be likely to get. That would end the problem once and for all.
October 29, 2021
Just fine them until it hurts their pockets. At least this brings in some revenue. Or give them community service picking up litter. They should enjoy this.
I do think the police should clear them before someone gets hurt. I’m surprised the public haven’t organised vigilantes on motor bikes to race out to clear them as policing is now so bad.
October 29, 2021
I’m sorry Sir John, but this is a very silly idea thought up by someone with no experience in critical thinking. I doubt the majority of these protesters have driving licences in the first place!
No, the correct approach is a large fine – I suggest Ā£10,000 (to cover the costs of policing, prosecution and the economic impact of the protests) – which must be paid within 7 days, or they go to prison for 90 days while their assets (eg. their home) are sold to pay the fine. As for those who have no money and no assets (such as students or those on benefits) the only penalty then which would be effective would be a custodial sentence, which should be 12 months for a first offence, and then doubling with each subsequent offence. The government won’t do any of this, of course, because they are an utterly useless waste of space who are part of the problem, not the solution. This Conservative government is the enemy of all decent British people and patriots.
October 29, 2021
As with XR as well these silly people (they do fit the label as terrorists), should not at anytime have a legal right to interfere and impede others – which they don’t. They should however not be our(the taxpayers) burden, all costs of there removal and subsequent clean up should be laid at their own ‘door’.
What we know from so-called ‘Insulate Britain’, as they have openly admitted confirmed it, they are disrupting mainly people that have insulated their homes far in excess of any of these terrorists have done themselves. These people are also ones that could get handsome if not free grants paid for by the taxpayer to do exactly what there action calls for – but they don’t. In reality the are just political activists that are having a free run because we have a weak Government that wont stand up for the majority of the people in the UK.
The Government clearly wants them to carry on as it fit with their religious cult of being anti the people, tax the people – yes , support ensure the safety and security of the majority no. Cajole people to reduce the Worlds ‘Global Warming’ concerns while those countries(UK 1% the World 99%) that are creating the situation sit back and laugh as the UK goes into poverty because evangelical zealots now have control of Government
As for taking away driving licences, nowadays that has no affect, the law is very lax if you even manage to get caught. Better to take away mobile phones and internet access – that’s how they organise themselves.
October 29, 2021
I cannot imagine this measure ever being adopted, attractive though it may seem. If it were, then we might see it extended to be deployed for miscreants of any nature. That is the path to a police state.
October 29, 2021
XR are an odd bunch – middle-class middle-aged idlers notably lacking in diversity. Iād just let them continue with their antics, every time they block a road they lose support for their cause.
October 29, 2021
I think he best thing to do is fine the protesters and charge them with all public costs e.g. police/court expenses.
If any can’t pay then their relatives should be charged and/or assets seized.
If they still cannot meet the bill, we should bring back the workhouse and get them making goods that we normally have to import or get them picking fruit and veg etc.
The tax payer must not be forced to pay for them.
October 29, 2021
Why not confiscate their passports and any travel cards they may possess (prevent re-application). They need to pay full price for their travel, to remind them of the misery their actions have caused to other travellers.
October 29, 2021
Large fines and community service. Give their lives some disruption as they clearly think disrupting everybody else is ok. Hours and hours cutting grass in a old churchyard with a pair of garden shears because they would never use a ghastly polluting machine. That should occupy them and benefit the community. I seem to recall large fines of Ā£10000 being dished out for merely going out. So it is possible.
October 29, 2021
Iām not convinced that our fifth column Establishment wish to deal with these terrorists but if they did I do not think removing their driving licences would work.
Firstly I think to remove a driving licence for a non-driving offence is itself a first step to Marxist style control.
Secondly I donāt think removing their driving licences would stop them driving and who would be checking that they have stopped driving? We donāt have their names and addresses and the police will not be doing this job. It would bring driving licences into disrepute.
And if it goes to court I donāt expect our fifth column judiciary to convict them as they would say that the removal of their driving licences was for political reasons unconnected with any driving offence.
I think the only option is to keep them away from blocking the roads by a spell in prison and if necessary we should build the prisons required. They should also have a criminal conviction which I think would stop some of them flying away to their holidays in countries such as the USA.
Whilst it is often claimed that keeping criminals in prison is āexpensiveā, and indeed it is, it is no-where near as expensive as allowing criminals free reign to cause economic, health and social damage to our country. The costs in police time alone amount to far more than keeping terrorists locked up.
The courts could also be instructed to impose very large fines. The terrorists will be able to pay them as they are very well funded but at least these fines can be used to pay for the police, prosecuting lawyers, court time etc. and the building of the prisons necessary to hold them etc..Possibly even to pay compensation for disruption to individuals. Non-payment of fines would increase time spent in prison which keeps them out of the way for longer.
Ps : Since I read that IB have called off action for today because it is raining, it might be useful for motorists to carry with them in the car a few bottles of water.
October 29, 2021
Johnson too busy posturing on the world stage at this COP26, to do anything useful, such as clearing the roads of terrorists or protecting British fishing boats.
Has Sturgeon said what she will do, after all it’s a Scotch boat that’s been detained ?
October 29, 2021
Whisky galore?
October 29, 2021
what? – full of whisky – how dare they.
October 29, 2021
Sir John,
A good idea. Judging by the age of many of these delinquents, a one year suspension of a freedom pass or any other form of subsidised travel on public transport would also be appropriate. Let them pay full fare to the scene of their attention-seeking stupidity.
October 29, 2021
the driving licence is already used as a political football, already gets taken away for doing perfectly normal things like 31 in a 30 on a clear dry day in safe conditions, pulling through a red light (safely) to let an ambulance on blue lights through (as any decent person would do), etc
we dont need it being hammered for this, cos it will be a slippery slope, and before you know it anyone who is not politically correct will be having their licence removed
sure dont put them in prison, force them to live in the cheapest grotiest B & B in town for a month, stop them taking any leisure journeys for a month, etc
October 29, 2021
I think they should all be made to do community service. If they are young they should pick up litter / remove graffiti / paint public metal railings etc. If they are elderly they should work in charity shops, packing and unpacking, shelf-stacking etc. There’s lots of work for them all to do until the estimated financial cost and distress they have wilfully caused society is made up
October 29, 2021
I am not sure about punishments Sir John, fines and limitation of free movement at rush hour would seem a good start.
What I do suggest is that the police do not remove them once they have glued themselves to the road. Take their details for prosecution later, reroute the traffic, leave them there to get cold wet and hungry and, most importantly, keep the media away from them. No coverage means less impact and they will stop.
October 29, 2021
Anything other than custody still requires multiple resources and actions which require expense in setting up, monitoring / surveillance to ensure compliance. Good & effective organisation by government agency, so best stick with imprisonment. So much wasted expenditure these days anyway; keep it as a one stop shop & apply the law we already have in place.
October 29, 2021
Diane, +1, a lot of good sense there, thank you. Complexity, like with the taxation laws always begets extra expense and duplicity.
October 29, 2021
Carbon emissions produced by fans in digital devices over a month is the equivalent to driving more than 746 million miles. So these terrorists communicating with one and other for a month does more damage than an uninsulated home and the individuals they block each day.
YouTube, were these terrorist get their science, is responsible for emitting enough carbon dioxide annually to far surpass the equivalent greenhouse gas output of the whole of Glasgow.
The above collated from MsM including the Gaurdian
So blocking terrorist from comunicating and viewing via the internet will go a long way to save the planet.
Just as with this evangelical PM and his followers these people are hypocrites. a case of ‘what I do is OK, the rest of you must bow down, accept the consequence and foot the bill’
October 29, 2021
I’m sorry to say that this idea beautifully exemplifies the disconnection between politicians and reality. The police are very evidently unable to prosecute knife crime, rape, domestic and gang violence, yet you believe that they would find the resources to identify and prosecute those without a valid driving licence. Dear oh dear.
October 29, 2021
A great idea but perhaps just a 6 or 12 months ban to start with.
Not sure what the aim of this type of protest is – just to make the protesters feel good about themselves ?
By all means allow protesting as long as it does not impact other people going about there lawful business.
Signs and protesters by the side of a road not blocking it. How much extra CO2 and other pollutants were generated by this action ?? Delays to emergency services vehicles and possible loss of life as a result. Deliveries of Covid vaccine.
October 29, 2021
It may be considered radical and controversial but how about returning the UK to the rule of law and return the police to the role of law enforcement rather than political enforcement?
October 29, 2021
+1
October 29, 2021
Police law enforcement — an oxymoron.
October 29, 2021
Because it does not suit those in power and those who pull their strings.
October 29, 2021
Your friend (presumably not a good one) makes a dangerous suggestion since it is arbitrary to select driving licences as the target for retribution and thus opens up all manner of seriously objectionable retaliations by the State against the rights and permissions enjoyed by citizens in full compliance with their associated obligations.
Reprehensible though the suggestion is, worse is your wish to see the law dis-applied only because providing the proscribed lawful punishment would make the protests more newsworthy (but in whose favour?) as the protesters wish, would exceed prison capacity, and would consume taxpayer-provided funding. Is that why Mr. Plod stands by idle (but alert to prevent any counter action by the public), while our Home Secretary proves she has as much grip on this issue as she has on the dingy invasion?
I never understand the hand-wringing and bewilderment when it comes to dealing with crime. If prospective perpetrators know they will get hammered in ways they seriously dislike, they will typically be deterred (unless hardened recidivists – who can be dealt with by longer sentences and perhaps counselling in some form). These XR people face no sanctions at present so they feel free, even encouraged, to carry on. The Government meanwhile looks weak and complacent.
What could be done and overcomes in good measure your objections whilst upholding the law and permitting resumption of unhindered passage on highways is to establish a holding camp (using canvas tents if no huts are available) somewhere isolated and let XR criminals serve their c. 28 days detention there.
October 29, 2021
Your first paragraph is a very good one, I’d say.
October 29, 2021
Sorry, off topic, but Iāve just received this email from Net Zero Watch. This confirms what many suspect about the coatingsā¦ itās off the chart!
ā London, 28 October – New data confirms that offshore windfarm costs remain at very high levels, having only fallen slightly in recent years.
Net Zero Watch has compiled the audited accounts of every commercial UK offshore windfarms, together with the associated generation data from Ofgem. This work updates a series of earlier studies of offshore wind in the UK, which reached similar conclusions.
The Prime Minister told MPs recently that the cost of offshore wind power has dropped by 70 per cent in the last decade. He used this to justify his claim that Net Zero can be achieved at modest cost.
The new findings show that he is wrong about the cost of wind energy and that Net Zero will cost hundreds of billions of pounds extra.
Ministers’ claims have been made on the basis of the low bids made to Contracts for Difference auctions by several offshore windfarms. However, the first of these – Moray East – has now published its 2020 accounts, which suggest that its construction cost will be similar to other recent windfarms.
Net Zero Watch’s Andrew Montford said:
“Except for the wind lobby, there is now widespread agreement that Contracts for Difference results do not reflect underlying costs. The hard data from audited accounts is now giving unequivocal backing to this reality. It is clear that offshore wind is extremely expensive, and will remain so for the foreseeable future”.
The chairman of the parliamentary Net Zero Scrutiny Group, Craig Mackinlay MP, said:
“Boris Johnson assured me that the cost of offshore wind has fallen by 70%. Sober analysis shows beyond all reasonable doubt that this is not the case. Not only does this show that the PM is being given flawed information by his advisers, the public is being led into a cost and energy security disaster.”
Details of the findings can be found at the Net Zero Watch website.
Contact
Andrew Montford
e: awmontford@gmail.com
October 29, 2021
Perhaps you should stop listening to lunatics?
October 29, 2021
Unfortunately some of us read you, not listen to you.
October 29, 2021
OK, Andy.
Consider yourself cancelled.
October 29, 2021
Very non PC young andy
October 29, 2021
Sharon :
Sharon : ā New data confirms that offshore windfarm costs remain at very high levels, having only fallen slightly in recent years.ā
Thanks for your interesting post.
It also needs to be noted that until we have a fully functional and costed grid āscale back-up for intermittent wind lasting several days at the very least we do not know the full costs of wind energy.
At the moment fossil fuel is providing the back-up and thus subsidising wind energy.
October 29, 2021
The government is warring against the people of this country. Its aim is to destroy western civilisation, bout time you woke up to this, JR.
October 29, 2021
Iago, +1,
October 29, 2021
I’m afraid I disagree with you Sir John.
How might one take away the driving licence from someone who doesn’t have one (as I’m sure applies to many of these idiots) ?
If any of us (or them….) were to be doing what they are doing BUT the subject of the protest was about anti Coronavirus legislation we’d be arrested on the spot, in Court the following day and either fined or locked-up by sunset.
These idiots are a danger to themselves but more importantly to the legitimate road-user. What will happen when someone is killed as a result of their actions – say by a driver having to make an evasive manouevre and hits either another protester, pedestrian, or other vehicle?
No. These people DO need to be locked-up.
And the sooner the better.
Regards,
GW.
October 29, 2021
I think this group has a higher than normal rate of car ownership. Diesel fuelled too. One of the complaints against them is that they park their cars to obstruct. Could these not be towed away and impounded as yours would be?
October 29, 2021
You need some street smarts, Sir John.
For example. Vaping on the NHS.
Geezers are gonn’a get their allowance, pass it on to their vaping mates and put it towards over-taxed fags. The Laughter Curve or summink like that.
There is a reason billionaires want cannabis legalised. So it can become a provision of the NHS. A similar thing to getting the Gov’t to pay for expensive railways. And a similar thing to why there is so much ADHD about – it quals for Hi Rate dependency and fast passes at theme parks. (No joke.)
October 29, 2021
I note that Andy and Newmania can insult us but when I reciprocate it’s slow in moderation.
Not that I complain about moderation much on a free site – just shows who has the real power in this country.
Dare I sit in the road for what I believe in ?
– media blackout
– straight to prison without publicity
This is what would follow.
October 29, 2021
Why are you in this Government ? Clearly you cannot influence from within.
October 29, 2021
Disrupting traffic by obstructing the highway should involve financial penalties. Whilst it is difficult to balance the human emotional and stress cost it is perfectly feasible to estimate the financial cost of holding up miles of traffic based on aerial and traffic apps. It must be enormous never mind the greater output of gases in slow moving traffic instead of engines designed for 50 mph + optimum output.
October 29, 2021
perhaps the Police will say we are not attending any more of these incidents.
Let the inconvenienced public sort it out?
October 29, 2021
Hi John,
” tax payers money”
I prefer your idea or something similar.
When you follow Our tax payments through the entire UK monetary system. Our tax is collected by the government banking service commercial partner Barclays bank.
From there the funds are transferred into HMRC account held at the BOE. Which are then moved to the consolidated fund by the end of the day. Depending on transactions within the monetary system in that day the consolidated fund will either show a deficit of surplus.
However, the consolidated fund is set to zero every night of the week. by the national loans fund. It is called The end of day exchequer sweep and is known as the net exchequer position.
The BOE will instruct The commercial banks that they all have to balance their reserves so that they add up to zero. So the BOE can hit its overnight interest rate.
The national loan fund In the overnight interbank market will either
1. If the commercial banks have too many reserves In the banking system. The national loans fund will drain the reserves by offering government bonds to the banks that will earn more interest to the banks than holding reserve balances.
2. If the commercial banks have not enough reserves. The national loans fund will add to the reserves by buying government bonds from the banks and exchanging them for a reserve balance.
Under the commercial banking licences they have to provide this service above.
In the old days that net exchequer position just showed up in the ways and means account. However, as we all know because of the Maastricht treaty.The Treasury select commitee submission From November 1999 describes the accounting and function changes that occurred as a result of Maastrict and with Bank of England independence. How that changed.
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmtreasy/154/cor15402.htm
( paragraph 37 onwards), the government simply spent according to direction from Parliament and this was expressed as money injected into the economy via the Bank of England. Then the Bank of England issued gilts (though always a liability of Treasury) solely with an eye on monetary conditions. In cases where not all of the government spending was drained – because the monetary objectives didn’t require it – then Ways and Means account simply acted as a balancing item. The Ways and Means account was therefore basically analogous to an overdraft , an IOU of the Treasury. So even in this case, we have Treasury IOUs backing central bank money creation, but as explicit, overt, unequivocal money creation by government spending. And the only concern in this system is the monetary target, i.e. inflation.
Post-1997 we have the system that we have now. The Treasury (DMO) is now responsible for cash management which means it has to clean up after itself by issuing gilts to neutralise its spending. This leaves the Bank to focus on regulating the economy only with respect to prevailing conditions rather than the additional complication of government cash flows. So now when the BoE needs to add more money to the economy it cannot use any of the government’s direct spending (i.e. only drain part of it off) as before because the DMO has already drained it all. So now it has to buy back some of the gilts that the DMO sold. Again, we have net money added to the economy backed by a Treasury IOU, though this time it is a gilt rather than an entry in the Ways and means account.
There are now two targets in the system: (1) the Treasury’s balanced cash flow target; (2) the Bank’s monetary target. In many cases the Bank will have to undo what the Treasury has done, instead of both simply acting together under one target as they did before the Maastricht Treaty.
What this shows me is that the changes in 1997 really did just obfuscate the reality. It is much easier to reconcile the pre-1997 system , as it is clear to see and much cleaner.
1. that the spending happens first following Parliamentary direction
2. that spending creates money via accounts being credited as the central bank
3. that the only concern ultimately is monetary conditions (inflation not budgets)
The consolidate fund starts with a zero balance every morning and government spending begins again. Which shows clearly, as clear as day the collection of taxes are not linked to government spending.
Our taxes are destroyed the second the national loans fund resets the consolidated fund to zero every night. Starts the over night interbank lending process.
Yes, if the Government over spends what skills and real resources we have as a country. Taxes may rise to control inflation. That is a very rare occurrence indeed. Last time that happened in the UK was world war 2.
However, regarding taxes funding government spending it is simply not true. Now that we have left the EU we should get rid of the changes implemented by the Maastricht treaty. Just start using the ways and means account again.
Our taxes will not rise by jailing these people. Unless we don’t have enough skills and real resources to jail them and guard them. Only if we Bid up prices far enough by competing with the private sector to get them.
Wether or not we think that is a productive use of our skills and real resources. I don’t think it is I prefer your idea or something similar.
This ” tax payers money ” club we use to get a political point across as if we use the Euro when we don’t. Is also a waste of our time and effort. It causes big problems whenever we want to cut taxes and get things done.
October 29, 2021
Good idea, and neat, but it would be quickly overturned by the subversive judiciary.
The Gandhi idea of non violent resistance is clear in its intention: to manipulate the situation in such a way as to get people hurt and then blame the Government. Eventually this will be happening all over the country, courtesy of the judiciary. Even if the judges don’t give them back their licences, the revolutionaries would ignore the fact they hadn’t got them and continue to drive anyway. Then what?
October 29, 2021
On reflection, I think the best idea is to get them to pick up and process rubbish.
October 29, 2021
Removing their driving licences is a good idea, but they should also be fined heavily commensurate with the disruption caused and made to do community service – doing insulation work.
But we also have a problem with selective enforcement of the law- they are allowed to go about disrupting roads day after day – it appears that the law doesn’t apply to disrupters blocking the highway. When they are finally rounded up, why are they released to repeat their activities the next day – why aren’t they locked up on remand until their court case and only released when they have paid a heavy fine.
And as this is an organised disruption surely IB (and XR) should be made proscribed organisations and the organisers and backers heavily fined too.
October 29, 2021
Corporal Punishment should be reinstated in general.
October 30, 2021
Are you volunteering to hit them, and what with?
October 29, 2021
The only way to win is to support scientists who are producing the great tech of the future that will both make our planet as green as possible whilst not damaging our economy. Where we have our cake and eat it.
Sadly, luddites on both the right and left don’t believe that technology can achieve both but it can. We just need more people to have more courage / perseverance.
Ultimately, this all stems to some kind of puritanical streak in people that tells them (/us) the lie that happiness (i.e. a successful economy) necessarily comes at a price (i.e. damage to the environment) in this life. Rubbish (yes, the economy CAN damage the environment but only if we let it – through being lazy / complacent / unimaginative – BORING etc).
We CAN have the best of both worlds but it requires being wise, brave and having a sense of adventure ..
October 29, 2021
These people should turn their attention to Rome where the Fraudster in Chief has just swept in with an 85 car cavalcade of huge black limos, all flown in from America. It looked like a really important mafia funeral.
October 30, 2021
It’s a good idea. An alternative is to read the Riot Act if there are 6 or more protesters, then follow up with water cannon, plastic bullets and rubber bullets.
October 30, 2021
Mrs May and Mr Khan sabotaged the water cannon Boris bought from Germany last time we had major city riots..
October 31, 2021
Sold for scrap!
October 31, 2021
Genius idea!
November 7, 2021
Yes, not prison, community service work. Make them clean up the mess they make for a start – then gardening on roundabouts etc