What estimate has the Health Secretary made of total NHS redundancy payments for the last year?

I suspect the true answer to my question is considerably higher than the answer they provided. I wonder why they left some categories out when I asked for the total?

The Department of Health and Social Care has provided the following answer to your written parliamentary question (146530):

To ask the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, what estimate he has made of total NHS redundancy payments for the last year. (146530)

Tabled on: 24 March 2022

Edward Argar:

The total value of the redundancy payments incurred by National Health Service in 2020/21 is £27.4 million.

The following table shows these costs by voluntary and compulsory redundancies in 2020/21 by the NHS England group and Consolidated Provider Account group. The NHS England group comprises of clinical commissioning groups and NHS England. The Consolidated Provider Accounts group includes NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts.

Entity Voluntary redundancies including early retirement contractual costs £ million Value of compulsory redundancies £ million
NHS England group 2.5 6.1
Consolidated Provider Account group 2.8 16.0


These values do not include mutually agreed resignations contractual costs, early retirements in the efficiency of the service contractual costs and contractual payments in lieu of notice. Exit payments following employment tribunals or court orders and non-contractual payments requiring HM Treasury approval.

The answer was submitted on 11 Apr 2022 at 10:40.


  1. Peter
    April 13, 2022

    I am not sure why redundancy costs are of particular interest.

    A root and branch reform/ reduction of NHS management is long overdue anyway. That does not mean spending any saving on expensive management consultants from the accountancy firms either.

    The missing amounts in the parliamentary reply could be accounted for by payments to a few big shots who seem to move between NHS trusts with impunity. Failure is no hindrance to them.

    1. Nottingham Lad Himself
      April 13, 2022

      I think perhaps that Sir John was expecting them to be far higher – they seem low to me – and then rightly questions would be asked about these redundancies happening when the NHS is so understaffed, as to what class of worker etc.

      Ultimate responsibility lies with the relevant government Minister whatever.

      1. a-tracy
        April 14, 2022

        NLH – does it really lie with the relevant government Minister or the top managers earning more than double what the minister earns responsible for each section of the NHS.

        If I were a minister and I were responsible, I would list every single Manager paid more than me to Manage the NHS. I would compare each of them, their productivity, their results, the claims of mismanagement against their section, I would micro-manage them and then people like you would be complaining.

    2. MFD
      April 13, 2022

      Your last sentence is the nub of the problem. However, I dont think its a few, I believe there is a policy of promote to get rid of incompetent people in a department.

      We need to return to “ keep it simple, stupid” then nobody can get a free ride in the crowd!

  2. Everhopeful
    April 13, 2022

    As in “Oh Gawd, he’s asking questions again! Quick, do something!”
    Much unusual activity and flurry of paperwork.
    And the dear souls were so busy “Saving the NHS” too.
    And such a novel way of so doing…staff shedding.
    Bang a few saucepans…and off you go.

    Is that huge £££s spent on redundancy or just average?

  3. Michelle
    April 13, 2022

    Another area of interest should be the millions paid out to patients because of negligence, incompetence etc.
    This may be a drop in the ocean when held up against all other costs, but it can’t be helpful in balancing the books surely.

    I suppose the answer will be to make it even harder for patients to bring to light negligence and incompetence, which isn’t helpful either.

    1. Lifelogic
      April 13, 2022

      indeed much of which goes not to patients but to lawyers working for patients or for the NHS. Patients should have to agree to a standard level of no fault compensation for each procedure, if they want more they pay for extra insurance or go privately. This gets payed directly on a no fault basis. Get rid of parasitic legal and similar jobs and replace with some productive doctors and medical staff.

      1. No Longer Anonymous
        April 13, 2022

        There should be NO compensation for NHS accidents. Patients should sign a waver or decline treatment.

        1. Nottingham Lad Himself
          April 14, 2022

          Negligence and incompetence are a particular class of accident.

          You are seriously suggesting that patients be exposed to that with no recourse nor sanction for those responsible.

        2. SM
          April 14, 2022

          NLA -you really should try out that suggestion on all the parents and their [surviving] children who suffered from the gross ineptitude in many of the NHS Maternity units.

  4. Lifelogic
    April 13, 2022

    Philip Johnson today in the Telegraph is surely right:- The NHS model has failed – until we accept that, nothing will change. The pandemic inquiry should examine how the health service’s structure 
is letting us all down.
    The NHS is irreparably broken. Everybody knows it. Indeed it is hard to go to any gathering without hearing tales of woe about cancelled operations, lengthening waiting lists, GP shortages and late ambulances.

    As is Charles Moore yesterday.

    “Non-doms: bad politics, but good policy. A simple point about “non-doms” is often missed. They exist because the Treasury, under Labour and Conservative governments alike, has calculated that they bring in more tax than if they did not exist.”

    The NonDom regime is of huge value to the country (despite Osborne’s vandalism) if anything we should extend it to so Domiciled people pay rather less tax too and do not find they have to leave the UK as so many often do (or cannot return without paying millions in tax).

    1. Nigl
      April 13, 2022

      I agree but as ever you are immune to the politics so you would never get elected leaving your views going nowhere.

      1. Lifelogic
        April 13, 2022

        Seems so alas.

        Mogg today on Talk Radio again saying Boris gets the big things right. What big things does he mean exactly? I cannot think of many beyond winning a majority and keeping Labour/SNP out.

        Some big things he has got very wrong indeed:-
        Not leaving the EU without a new treaty on WTO terms.
        Northern Ireland
        Dumping infected patients tested and untested into care home killing thousands and infection thousands in hospitals too.
        The pandemic planning was appalling.
        The absurdly extended lockdowns that did more harm than good.
        Shutting down schools that did more harm than good.
        The vaccinations of the young and children that seem to do far more harm than good.
        Not vaccination men slightly younger than women in the vaccine role out which cost lives and wasted money.
        The many and vast tax increases and tax complexity increases.
        HS2, Hinkley C, the soft loans for so many worthless degrees and lack of decent skills and on the job training.
        The net zero expensive and not on demand energy agenda.
        Falling for the climate alarmist lunacy.
        Encouraging eco vandalism & terrorism and falling for the climate alarmist religion.
        Allowing LEA to block roads and endlessly mug motorists.
        Burning wood (young less efficient coal) at Drax.
        Not cutting down the size of the state and firing the many state sector people who do nothing for value .
        Not sorting out the incompetence of places like the DVLA
        Not making the police concentrate on real crimes and act as a deterrent.
        Not putting a sensible structure in place for the dire NHS which fails millions and wastes £billions.
        Increase rend tape hugely rather than having a bonfire of it.
        Printing money and creating 7% and rising inflation.
        Not having a sane energy strategy.
        The attack on the self employed and very many attacks on landlords – pushing up rents for tenants and reducing supply.
        Taking notice of his lefty, green, woke wife
        Making tax digital.

        I could find even more.

        1. Mickey Taking
          April 14, 2022

          yes but apart from that, he’s doing OK isn’t he?

      2. Lifelogic
        April 13, 2022

        I am not trying to get elected – merely pointing out what would actually work and benefit people, the economy and overall living standards best.

    2. Mickey Taking
      April 13, 2022

      If you believe that you will believe anything. A historic decision to protect massive profits made in India, but avoiding taxation in ‘blighty’.
      As I’ve said before over 100 billionaires living in India – how many ‘living’ in UK I wonder?
      The whole Non-Doms is protecting wealth and friends/supporters.

      1. Mickey Taking
        April 13, 2022

        Sir John, I imagine the voters in Wokingham would value how you see the subject, its justification and what measures might be taken to curtail the most magnificent financial advantage afforded?
        Or will you keep well away from the sensitive issue?

  5. Sharon
    April 13, 2022

    Are these redundancies aimed at admin and management staff? Who are these redundancies? The information tells us nothing really.

    1. Michelle
      April 13, 2022

      I was wondering the same.
      While they recruit abroad, are we seriously making people redundant who are already working in NHS?

      I can’t imagine there has been a revelation that there are far too many pen pushers and clip board wielding managers that are totally unnecessary, in fact a hindrance, so their redundancy notice has been issued.
      Indeed I note the push for ‘diversity officers’ ( who I call ideological commissars) with a very nice salary is underway in some areas.
      We need more of that like a hole in the head and is a dangerous step towards patient lists being the next step on the road to ‘diversity’ checks.

  6. Narrow Shoulders
    April 13, 2022

    It’s only other people’s money.

    Is a fixed penalty notice the same law breaking status as a speeding fine?

    1. a-tracy
      April 13, 2022

      Narrow Shoulders, now the police have found them guilty of organising and attending ‘a party’ who is paying the £10,000 for organising it which would go some way to paying for the police investigation that no civilian would have been awarded, they’d have just got a fine, the end, pay up or else.

    2. Mickey Taking
      April 13, 2022

      a driving ban after too many points – will there be a ban after too many parties, I mean gatherings, I mean government working meetings.?

  7. Nigl
    April 13, 2022

    Indeed. I think it was Neutron Jack that started the view that there only needs to be three layers of Management, any more, diluting and slowing down the wishes of the executive plus a non value creating cost.

    This sounds like a metaphor for the NHS which I assume will be structured similarly across all its cost centres.

    Obviously if asked the vast swathes of middle managers would justify their existence and with budgets constantly increased, their seems to be no driver for top management to take action.

    If Javed wasn’t so weak he would get his highly paid civil servants to look at a typical organisational structure and the management job titles and responsibilities and blue pen a few layers telling NHS to strip them out by reorganisation.

    And on an NHS theme their service is going to be further reduced by language ability and experience to be watered down to recruit more nurses from over seas in itself a failure of recruitment planning.

    Sir JR I don’t want to be treated by someone who doesn’t speak fluently my language and what about the ethics of a developed country denuding third world countries of people they have trained and need more than we do? Am I alone in thinking this is shabby?

    And in other news migration related Pritti Patels spin that it was the travel industries failure to plan that has caused all delays has now unravelled, proven to be a lie because she was warned switching border staff to deal with migrants would abuse precisely the problems that have occurred.

    Is their any Secretary of State or their Ministers who can do a job efficiently?

  8. miami.mode
    April 13, 2022

    Why do you expect a comprehensive accurate answer? All we seem to get from this current government is a two fingered response to any awkward questions.

    1. Lifelogic
      April 13, 2022

      Indeed I assume they give this response so as to deter even more questions why bother if you get daft or none answers.

      Rather like the totally misdirected UK police “service” – why bother to report any crimes to them if you know the police with do nothing anyway beyond a victim of crime letter. Thus they reduce the reported crime figures and save themselves lots of work.

  9. Sharon
    April 13, 2022

    JR Do you know anything about a WHO treaty that is allegedly being put together, which would enable any future pandemics to be controlled directly by the WHO?

    1. Donna
      April 13, 2022

      The WHO announce their attempt to supersede the Governments of the world, democratic or otherwise, here:


      If you go to The Daily Sceptic website; the list of daily stories and the story titled “Urgent! Comment on the WHO Treaty now you will find the links to make your comment. You only have a couple of hours to do it. They really don’t want to give people much chance to object.

    2. Everhopeful
      April 13, 2022

      I think it is up for signing in May.
      But when have they ever listened to us?
      Imagine…tagged and recorded by WHO!

  10. Donna
    April 13, 2022

    Perhaps it’s because Edward Argar has the same relationship with integrity and the truth as Johnson and Sunak?

    1. Lifelogic
      April 13, 2022

      Certainly one hell of a lot of exclusions – why are they excluded? Just ask another question as to the value of all these exclusions and why they choose to exclude them. They they will doubtless give you another evasive and worthless answer.

    2. Mickey Taking
      April 13, 2022

      ‘a useful idiot’?

    3. SM
      April 13, 2022

      Mr Agar will only be able to respond with the information given to him by his Dept’s civil servants.

      It would, of course, be nice to think that this Minister had pressed his staff to give him the fullest possible answer, which might just have been an embarrassment…

  11. dixie
    April 13, 2022

    Having got them to calculate the costs the next obvious question is to ask for a breakdown of the compulsory redundancy group by segments and grades – medical, technical, administration, executives etc.

    1. a-tracy
      April 13, 2022

      Dixie, this is the problem when you have an endless pot of money to spend with no repercussions?
      Each English trust should be investigated, who is wasting money in this way?

      What are we going to do, all parties are now the parties of the public sector. We need more money – just give it to them – tax the plebs more to pay for it. I’ve had enough of this and there is no one else to vote for, they’re all a different shade of the same.

      1. dixie
        April 14, 2022

        A-tracy – What are we going to do? As a group I really don’t know since the inmates control the asylum and the broken process which is in their interest to continue.
        As an individual I try to do what is best for my family, friends and community while minimising the unnecessary tax, latitude and support I give to a wasteful, disloyal and arrogant government and public sector.

  12. alan jutson
    April 13, 2022

    Why would the NHS make a significant number of staff redundant given it is forever expanding, and always short of staff according to its own reports.
    Surely better to first offer them alternative positions “in house” if departments are closing, or moving a distance.
    Interesting that the reply outlines it does not include any pay off, or settlements for poor performing staff to leave, I wonder how much was spent on that.

    1. miami.mode
      April 13, 2022

      aj, cover-ups are the first port of call for any sort of misdemeanour or serious failings in the public sector.

  13. Bryan Harris
    April 13, 2022

    I wonder why they left some categories out when I asked for the total?

    We should know by now that HMG is not being completely honest with anything to do with Covid or the NHS —

    When they do supply data they confuse it as much as possible by leaving out vital components or as has happened so frequently, they change the way data is presented or grouped.

    1. Lifelogic
      April 13, 2022

      Indeed and not just with Covid and the NHS but the whole of this bloated and generally, inept, wasteful and often corrupt government.

      My daughter has a physics GCE past paper question to answer – “What is renewable and non renewable energy?” Good question as there is clearly no such thing in physics as “renewable” energy so it is a political question. It seems the answer they want is:-

      “Renewable energy is defined as energy that is collected from resources that will never run out or which are replaced by nature in less than a human lifetime. Non-renewable energy is defined as energy collected from resources that cannot be replaced when they are used up, such as oil, natural gas or coal.”

      So what energy will never run out then? The sun’s fusion certainly will run out and this drives wind, solar, bio… Have the question setters not heard of entropy? Even tidal energy slows the earths rotation slightly so will eventually run out.

      So they think oil, gas or coal cannot be replace when used up they claim – well of course we can grow and make oil, methane and young coal (wood). So the question is not physics at all it is pure political indoctrination and complete drivel!

      1. Lifelogic
        April 13, 2022

        So if I tell her to put the correct answer to the above she will doubtless get marked down so I have to tell her to put the one they want – the propaganda lie.

  14. Nigl
    April 13, 2022

    And in other news we see inflation hitting 7%and I guess with more to go, showing up the BOE. Will anybody be fired? Of course not.

  15. acorn
    April 13, 2022

    According to DHSC Annual Report and Accounts 2020/21, Table 31. Exit packages cost £48 million for the departmental group. It cost £100 million in 2019/20.

    “The government has decided to revoke The Restriction of Public Sector Exit Payments Regulations 2020 of the Small Business Enterprise and Employment Act 2015, which implemented a cap of £95,000 on the total sum of payments made in effect of termination of employment. This decision has been made due to the unintended consequences it may have had on some employees.” (NHS Employers)

  16. DOM
    April 13, 2022

    Labour’s NHS now controls Tory party policy on public health. Indeed I cannot think of one area of public policy that isn’t controlled by the enemies of the Tory party.

    Labour’s Education sector now controlled by Marxist teaching unions who poison kids minds with their racial and gender extremist ideology

    Labour’s BBC dictates broadcastng legislation while the forces of the left destroy free-speech using sneaky methods like offence culture, victim politics and the Hate Crime narrative

    The Tory party exists today to protect the interests of the Tory party from the Left’s eternal pressure and to hell with the us lot and you know what in their hearts they know that also..it stinks that they can get away with this deceit

    1. Nottingham Lad Himself
      April 14, 2022

      I think that you will find that most teachers – like qualified people in general – own their own homes as private property, would very much like to keep them, and would support one another very energetically in that aim.

      Since that would be contrary to the central principle of marxism your silly attempt at labelling teachers and such generally as marxists is laughably daft.

      1. Mickey Taking
        April 14, 2022

        Are you ignoring the newly qualified teachers over say last 5 years, complete with a large uni loan and often no income while studying for the degree? Probably paid between £24k and £30k and very unlikely to be able to find a deposit for a mortgage on a home? Some might have a considerably better paid spouse /partner and parents who drew on Bank of mum and dad for the deposit? They may well have marxist leanings – how would you know. Wild guess again Martin.

  17. Mary M.
    April 13, 2022

    Article in the Daily Telegraph yesterday: ‘UK watered down requirements for overseas nurses in ‘supercharged’ recruitment drive’.

    The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care would find most of the comments in response to it sensible and helpful.

    Why did so many NHS nurses, and workers in the care sector, leave? Anything to do with Sajid Javid’s vaccine mandates, implemented for those in the care sector, and threatened to be implemented in the NHS?

    Moreover, we lost thousands of dedicated EU citizens from both sectors, many of whom were doing a marvelous job looking after the sick or elderly.

  18. a-tracy
    April 13, 2022

    Why are people not redeployed?
    Is this just to cover up poor disciplinary management, pay people off rather than deal with the discipline measures?
    Why if the NHS is so undermanned as we are being told repeatedly by the opposition every week is anyone made redundant? Who are these people?
    The government complains about P&O but £16m is an awful lot of people covered up with big payoffs with OUR MONEY.

  19. Original Richard
    April 13, 2022

    A question on NHS redundancy payments reminds me that we are so badly governed by the Government and all our (its?) institutions, such as the NHS, that almost no-one in senior management is ever sacked no matter how poorly they perform. And, unbelievably, if a senior manager is finally acked for incompetence by one trust they are engaged by another 6 months later, even benefiting from getting both golden handshakes and hellos.

    Senior NHS managers are not sacked when serious tragedies occur. Worse still, the NHS has no system in place for lessons to be learnt from these tragedies, unlike the aviation business, for instance.

    I like the idea proposed by another poster on this site last month who suggested that the Government should select a wide set of metrics to enable them to compare the trusts and the senior management of the three worst performing trusts each year should be sacked.

  20. XY
    April 13, 2022

    So… submit another FOI requesting the data for the groups that were omitted last time.

    “The NHS England group comprises of clinical commissioning groups and NHS England.”

    They need to get some people who understand English as well. Something can “consist of” or “comprise” other things, but there is no such construct as “comprise of”.

    Simnply put, with comprise, the word “of” is already built-in, so it would be akin to saying “consists of of”.

  21. Barbara
    April 13, 2022

    I see the WHO Pandemic Treaty proposes WHO will take precedence over a country’s government, parliament and constitution in any future ‘pandemics’. What could possibly go wrong?

    1. Original Richard
      April 13, 2022

      Barbara :

      Signing any such Treaty guarantees there will be another pandemic.

  22. Iago
    April 13, 2022

    NHS staff were told that they had to be ‘vaccinated’ or lose their jobs. Then that changed, but it was not completely clear what the change was. Did some staff, before or after, lose their jobs and were they given payments? were such payments not included in this answer? With this government, all one has to to do is envisage the worst possible scenario and one is halfway there.
    An ongoing court case in Florida has just revealed that the US armed forces have meticulous data on the adverse effects of the vaccines and are attempting to ensure that it does not become public.

    1. Mickey Taking
      April 14, 2022

      evidence on court case? – -or just more social media lies?

  23. Iago
    April 13, 2022

    Female suspects can be strip-searched by police officers who were born male but identify as women – and could be accused of a hate crime if they object, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
    One’s contempt for this government can only be limitless.

  24. acorn
    April 13, 2022

    BTW. Have a look at this from the RAC. Pence per litre and % of total cost for unleaded E10 petrol.

    Wholesale petrol (90% of a litre of fuel) 52.58 32% (59 pence per litre wholesale)
    Bio content E10 (up to 10% Ethanol) 11.62 7% (116 pence per litre wholesale)
    Delivery & oil company 1.70 1%
    Retailer margin 16.56 10%
    Fuel duty 52.95 33%
    VAT @ 20% 27.07 17%
    Retail price 162.48
    Total tax 80.02
    Tax as % of average retail price 49%

    The Bio content, that is one tenth of a litre in this one litre of E10 fuel, is charged at 11.62 pence. Hence a litre of Ethanol is pro-rata 116 pence per litre. You can buy it on the commodity markets for 53 pence per litre. Add to that the Ethanol content of E10 fuel is yet to get anywhere near 10% of a litre of E10 fuel.

    Questions should be asked in the HoC.

  25. No Longer Anonymous
    April 14, 2022

    It’s far FAR worse than that, Acorn.

    Both the retailer and the delivery company are paying tax too, which is passed on to the driver.

    Taking the RAC figures at face value the tax is more than 100% of the pump price. Alas I make 82.02% VAT + fuel duty of £162.48 (assuming that’s what you really meant) around £1.33.

    It is even worse than that.

    1. No Longer Anonymous
      April 14, 2022

      Correction: £1.62 / litre retail.

  26. Original Richard
    April 14, 2022

    The question I would like to put to the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care is :

    How many people are they treating who possess an NHS number and how many who do not have an NHS number?

  27. G.Wheatley
    April 14, 2022

    Sir John,

    Perhaps ask the Minister to comment on what happened in regard to sacking 100,000 unjabbed NHS workers on 1st April, at a time when the service is critically under-staffed? I’m sure the Health Secretary must know (doesn’t he?).


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