The battle of the railways

The strikes that swirl around the railways are damaging a business in trouble. The railway main  problem is it lacks fare paying passengers. The mainstay of the passenger railway prior to 2020 was the five day a week commuter into  city centres. They were made to pay  large sums for season tickets as they had no real choice over how and when to get to work. Covid lockdowns and the move to hybrid working has demolished the railways main pool of passengers. People now may only go  in twice a week to the office . They may go in at other times of day that qualify as off peak.

The passenger market railway managers  say they  wish to expand is the leisure market. This has often been a discount market where people choose to visit places when they are offered cheap tickets. The railway often declines to run special trains to serve popular events which might  offer some better fare opportunities.

Going on strike puts more people off relying on trains as well as losing most revenue on strike days. It gets occasional commuters doing more from home or finding road based alternatives.

The employees say they want a pay rise close to inflation along with job guarantees. All the time the railways are so short of business they cannot afford large pay rises. The pay increases the industry would be willing to pay depend on reaching agreement on working smarter. All employees need to buy into boosting fares and curbing costs to give them the best chance of keeping their jobs.

The government needs to stress that paying more and more subsidy to run more and more near empty trains is not a good use of taxpayers money. It also needs to allow more competition over using the tracks to run services and over putting in  new links to get the railway to where the potential customers are. The Hull train services are a good example of how competitive challennge can create better service and new demand.

162 Comments

  1. Mark B
    August 20, 2022

    Good morning.

    With strikes and the inability to run at cost (forget at a profit) services, is this really a good time to be spending money on HS2 ? Would money spent on that White Elephant / Bottomless Pit be better spent elsewhere ? – eg Driverless Trains.

    Train tickets are too expensive. An empty train costs just about as much as a full one to run. Sir Freddie Laker (SkyTrain) and Stelios Haji-Ioannou (Easy Jet) had the right answer. People just want to get from A to B quickly, safely and for the lowest possible price. Harder on trains I know, but is can be done if strategy is right – Government buy and own rolling stock, track and stations, and the companies running the service own the employee contracts and license to run the service. All the company has to charge is for its running costs plus a fixed profit and a small levy for the use of the rolling stock and track maintenance.

    A railway service cannot be run at a profit since there are better and cheaper alternatives. It is time we accepted that and marketed it better – ie Use rail for longer journeys with lower fares to encourage use.

    1. cuibono
      August 20, 2022

      +many
      Oh yes! Ages ago I heard/read that these strikes were all about getting driverless trains.
      I often think that govts and unions might collude in these supposed industrial battles.
      Going way back to mines, steel and cars…the outcome was exactly what the EU demanded after all.

      1. Hope
        August 20, 2022

        If we can fly drones around the world from UK we should be able to have driverless trains around the country. Get rid of them. The staff have become too obstructionist for their own good.

        1. cuibono
          August 20, 2022

          Blame the Marxist union infiltrators, spouting their politics of envy.
          People need to work. They need jobs.

          1. Hope
            August 21, 2022

            They should vote them out then. The staff ought to realise public make pay days possible. Try considering the customer who keeps them in a job. When they consider themselves before the service they provide they are no longer viable as a service or business.

            Hence why local councils and NHS are useless. Both Need radical shake up not more of our money pissed down the drain for pay and pension for layers of unnecessary management diversity and bean counters to show false targets are met.

    2. Lifelogic
      August 20, 2022

      Indeed HS2 has always been an idiotic waste of money, must surely be driven by vested interests or perhaps even worse blatant corruption. I recently caught a train from Newbury to Paddington about 3PM with twelve large carriages and just five passengers got off at Paddington.

      It costs £369.40 open return (plus the end connections) for one passenger by car up to seven people for about £120 so 21 times cheaper. The trains also claim to create 60% less CO2, well perhaps with a full train, a car with one passenger and ignoring the end connections, staff, stations, track, ticketing… but in the real world this is total B/S like most of the CO2 devil gas religion. If it is so energy efficient why does it cost up to 21 times more?

      The car also goes door to door and at any time you choose, 4.30 in the morning if needed.

      1. Lifelogic
        August 20, 2022

        You can fly London to Thailand for less than a train fair to Manchester and yet they claim trains are so efficient?

        1. dixie
          August 20, 2022

          But if I want to go to Manchester the cost to fly to Thailand is totally irrelevant.
          It is cheaper to go by train (eg £98) rather than fly to Manchester (eg £271).
          What has efficiency to do with it.

          1. Lifelogic
            August 20, 2022

            On dear, it is merely an illustration of how much cheaper flying can be per person mile than some rip off trains – about 1/25th of the cost in this case.

      2. Lifelogic
        August 20, 2022

        That figure was an open return London to Manchester.

    3. Peter Wood
      August 20, 2022

      Q. Where did this mess come from?
      A. A dog’s dinner of a privatisation, concocted by a dogma driven Tory Party.

      We know, they KNEW, that if you mix public and private money in a single enterprise, the private side makes the money and the public side takes the losses. So Sir J is ignoring the reality of how we come to this mess, why it was pushed through and is contining. Untll the system is honestly addrssed, then the problems will never be resolved, and like so many of our problems, just kicked down the road.
      If you ‘privatise’ something, you better get out 100%.

      1. Narrow Shoulders
        August 20, 2022

        Public / private drivers have always been able to strike with impunity.

      2. graham1946
        August 20, 2022

        Yep. Sir J’s memory does seem to be failing him lately with this and the NHS mess, all created by his party. Unfortunately he is in the invidious position of not being able to disagree and so this sort of farce just goes on and on. We will never get better government whilst dogma from a few at the top must be upheld, even when everyone can see it is wrong.

        1. Mickey Taking
          August 20, 2022

          Its not a far cry from behaviour in a dictatorship. Most individuals tow the line – their personal stake put at risk in any public criticism. A few protesting will be savaged to set examples. Only after the head is severed will dozens speak out that they knew all along that the collective path was wrong.

      3. Dave Andrews
        August 20, 2022

        To my mind, it would be better to form rail franchises from the rail workers, led by their managers. They form a company where the employees are the shareholders, with the season ticket holders having a stake as well. Any subsidy from the government comes with a no strike agreement. That way the workers take responsibility for their livelihood.
        That will neither satisfy the quest for Labour’s union power, nor some Tory rich friends, so will never happen.

      4. Peter Wood
        August 20, 2022

        P.S.
        I see the £ is falling further against the $, and so far the BoE is just wringing it’s hands. The Fed has indicated much higher interest rates are on the way, so where are we going? Not a clue from the home team it seems.

        1. Lifelogic
          August 20, 2022

          Sunak and that BoE fool are to blame for the vast currency debasement.

      5. Mark B
        August 20, 2022

        Peter

        I am sorry but I disagree with you but only in part. If you or anyone else want to know why our rail service has failed go to YT and type in the search – “The UK’s Failed Experiment in Rail Privatization”

        You will find, as cuibono mentioned in his third paragraph, that the EU had more than a hand in it.

        😉

        1. Peter Wood
          August 20, 2022

          Remarkable, or possibly not, how other EU nations managed to sidestep that particular directive, but we didn’t.
          john Major was PM when it was pushed through, what a surprise…..

        2. hefner
          August 20, 2022

          I have just watched the post on YT mentioned by cuibono and Mark. The EU indeed originally wanted privatisation, but had no way of forcing it on the UK (or other) Government. The way the privatisation was implemented was purely UK-led. As the film shows there had been many privatisation, re-nationalisation, re-privatisation by various governments and operators.
          The real question is why rail services in the UK are so much worse and expensive than on the Continent? Why has the UK taken the EU directive 91/440 and essentially made a mess of it.

          Applying the same directive France has mainly kept the SNCF into government’s hands and kept developing very successful TGV lines and only put the infrastructure into one private company Réseau Ferré de France.
          In Germany Deutsche Bahn (a state-owned private company (!)) is still the main provider of long-distance train services, other state-subsidised private companies deal with regional passenger services.
          In Italy the state-run Trenitalia runs most long distance routes with high-speed trains in competition with the private company Italo. Most regional services are provided by private companies.
          In Spain Renfe (state-owned) runs most of the passenger and freight lines between big cities on the nationalised ADIF network. A number of private companies run regional services, some on a different gauge network.

          So the question might be: why under the same EU directives other countries have more or less come up with a reasonably efficient system, and not the UK. Could it be that the problem is not so much with the EU directives but with very British but incompetent Governments, MPs, civil servants, CEOs ?
          Could it be that with the excuse of the EU Directives proposing privatisation all the usual hot heads full of Friedman’s market fundamentalism jumped on that opportunity without much thinking about all the consequences?

          1. Peter2
            August 20, 2022

            Could it be that we followed the requirements of the directives and other EU members basically just ignored them ?

          2. hefner
            August 20, 2022

            Not quite, the modifications made in the different EU countries following the EU 91/440 were all approved by the EU authorities, so your ‘other EU members basically just ignored them’ is wrong. EU91/440 originally wanted a separation between the entity/ies responsible for the ‘infrastructure’ (rail track network, signals, stations, …) and the one(s) responsible for the ‘mobility’ (the rolling stock whether for passengers or freight). All EU countries applied that distinction one way or another after December 1992.
            As it wrote before the all-privatised solution was led by the UK Government.

            Thank you for your interest.

          3. Peter2
            August 21, 2022

            I’m not surprised you reject the idea heffy.
            But the fact they approved them as we in the UK did doesn’t stop them from failing to fully implement those directives.

          4. hefner
            August 21, 2022

            ‘Whereas the future development and efficient operation of the railway system MAY be made easier if a distinction is made between the provision of transport services and the operation of the infrastructure, whereas given this situation, it is necessary for these two activities to be separately managed and have separate accounts’.

            I could recommend you to read the full directive at eur-lex.europa.eu, document 31991L0440,
            but anyway as you are obviously dogmatic about privatisation being the nec plus ultra for solving everything there is not much point in trying to put arguments to you.

          5. Peter2
            August 21, 2022

            No I am not “dogmatic about privatisation being the nec plus ultra for solving everything” at all heffy
            That is your biased attitude towards me giving you this incorrect idea about what my opinions might be.
            I merely made the point originally that we in the UK tended to implement fully EU directives such as this one.
            Other EU members whilst they signed up to a directive and said they fully support it then tend to avoid full compliance.
            Therefore your response that EU members had signed up misses the point.

          6. hefner
            August 21, 2022

            1/ MAY
            2/ all EU countries separated their ‘transport services’ from their ‘infrastructure-related activities’.
            So they were compliant with the directive. The directive did not recommend privatisation. The UK originally made the choice of privatising everything, trains and infrastructure. Some other countries did not choose that solution as was their right.

            You love to play games, don’t you? I love that too.

        3. Jamie
          August 21, 2022

          Idiocy- still blaming the EU – since we have ‘taken back control’ – and that is what it was meant to be about taking control – so we can run the railways the way we want – of course subject to the shareholders – most of whom are European nationals anyway – what a joke

      6. Ed M
        August 20, 2022

        DOGMA is the word. I remember when the dogma was so strong that you were thought of as a Communist / Marxist for disagreeing with it.

        Dogma whether from the left or right is or should be an anathema to TRUE CONSERVATIVE CAPITALISM which should be objective about what to privatise and what not to. You don’t want to get caught up in messy privations when there are other ways one can drive the economy and productivity i.e. focus far more on helping people in the high tech industry including entrepreneurs so that the UK becomes the Silicon Valley of Europe (the geographical area of) creating the Apples of the future. We’d be far richer as a nation then!

        But much, much more importantly, Conservatism should be a movement covering Education, the Media, the Arts and churches as well – to try and bring back and restore the values of our Judaeo-Christian and best of our Greco-Roman heritage. Because a strong, vibrant economy relies on strong culture / a strong civilisation with values (otherwise it’s just a chaotic rat-race and that causes more problems than it solves).

      7. Nottingham Lad Himself
        August 20, 2022

        You’re coming round, finally…

      8. Mark
        August 20, 2022

        The mess is the result of rail being overtaken by modern technology. Broadband, flights (for longer journeys) and cars offer cheaper, faster and more convenient (allowing for timetables and connection times) or substitute options in most cases which us why rail travel is now probably no more than 5% of passenger miles.

    4. glen cullen
      August 20, 2022

      So what’s the justification for HS2……£150bn – that would cover the shortfall in budget of every council and fund the repair of every road pot hole in the UK

    5. a-tracy
      August 20, 2022

      Mark don‘t you think it is already a commitment made to the EU so EU rolling stock can run through the UK with freight to a couple of main stations and up to Scotland without any say or payment to the British people, it seems like a break up solution to me for the EU and that’s why it will push on ahead because it certainly isn‘t any benefit to your average person. We are being sold out again and they can‘t stop it.

    6. X-Tory
      August 20, 2022

      I have previously comented on the need for a complete BAN on strikes for those who work on public transport, but I am also 100% in favour of driverless trains (both mainline and London underground). These would be cheaper, safer and available 24 hours. I have no idea why the government has not implemented this already, as the technology exists NOW. We were told that Boris wanted this on the London underground and yet, despite Covid offering the perfect opportunity (with TfL needing government funding to survive), this has STILL not been done. Yes, the government has asked TfL to ‘look into it’, but that is the usual meaninglees b*ll*cks that we get from a government that is all talk and no action. If they meant it they would force TfL to have driverless trains NOW.

  2. Peter
    August 20, 2022

    This article is picking on newer, lesser issues as the main problems with the railways.

    The railways were in a terrible state long before covid with all sorts of issues – Failing Grayling, TOCs having to be taken over by the government, etc.

    A good rail service will be needed as people are forced off cars due to fuel costs and congestion. A joined up system with a simple and affordable fare system is required. Conservatives need to finally admit that rail privatisation has been a complete failure.

    1. Lifelogic
      August 20, 2022

      Forced off cars by congestion and net zero rip off fuel costs deliberately caused by government policies so why this agenda? This especially as trains are usually rather less efficient and rather more expensive!

      HS trains particularly so as they have to make few stops so increasing end journey distances.

      1. Peter
        August 20, 2022

        LL,

        Congestion will be an issue where individuals use a personal vehicle. Parking is another issue in city centres. Trains do not have these issues.

        1. Lifelogic
          August 20, 2022

          Well trains are just large vehicles that are restricted to fixed routes. Rail track use is often a less efficient land use than roads per person mile and you need large car parks at the stations. Trains still have to park when not in use too. Plus a train journey is often far less direct with often double journeys at each end (a taxi drop off or wife drop off). They can have their place but not at all so simple as trains are good cars bad.

        2. Lifelogic
          August 20, 2022

          Well trains do actually have rather similar congestion and parking issues.

        3. dixie
          August 20, 2022

          One outcome of self driving cars might be for shared vehicles to support personal journeys, so providing journey flexibility while potentially minimising congestion and avoiding the issue of parking.
          Shared cars at the beginning and end of a journey with trains used for longer intermediate stages could give a flexible door-door service for many though likely not all travellers.

          1. Lifelogic
            August 21, 2022

            Perhaps but you still usually get a wasted empty taxi or car journey – on the return after the drop off and on the outward for the pick up. This as most people are going one way in the morning and the other way in the evening. That or you pay to park your car (unused all day) at the expensive station car park!

          2. dixie
            August 22, 2022

            As usual you are wrong, mistaking your gut intuition and personal circumstance for actual reality.
            Clearly you neither understand how these schemes are proposed to operate nor are bothered to find out yet pontificate ad nausiem despite that lack of facts and rigor – is this really what they teach you at Cambridge!?
            Autonomous car sharing reduces the number of one-way journeys and you don’t pay to park since you do not own the vehicle. The car wouldn’t even be parked at the station but transfer elsewhere to support different users.
            Your pattern of usage and preferences is not the same as others and to claim that as the basis of “most” and “usual” usage is utterly misleading, a fiction.
            Different demographics have different needs and usage – city versus urban versus rural users, workers in the city, workers who commute, workers who must travel between clients, people who have children at school, retired folks who are more flexible in time and journey. The list is broad and you are not representative of many.

    2. acorn
      August 20, 2022

      The government panicked about the railways when Covid struck. Yet another privatisation model was about to implode. First Group plc (Hull Trains owner) for one, had the DfT by the short and curlies with National Rail Contracts (NRCs). Under the NRCs, the DfT retains substantially all revenue and cost risk (including for fuel and wage increases). Train companies get paid a contract fee just to manage and operate the hardware. First Group Accounts for 2022 show £1.9 billion from passengers and £1.7 billion subsidy (£2.9 billion subsidy in 2021).

      1. Peter
        August 20, 2022

        TOCs have no incentive to improve the service or rolling stock, to innovate or to increase passenger numbers.

        Government subsidy is all they are interested in.

        If things seem likely to get more difficult the TOC does not renew the contract. Arriva in Wales for example, as a result of potential hassle with the introduction of a new South Wales metro.

  3. Peter
    August 20, 2022

    Having used the railway to Hull recently I saw nothing special about that particular service.

  4. DOM
    August 20, 2022

    The Tory party have more in common with Mick Lynch than they do with Margaret Thatcher. That’s how low the Tory party has fallen. It’s a party swimming in the sewer of a destructive, vile and spiteful ideology that will destroy this nation and that of course it its intention

    1. No Longer Anonymous
      August 20, 2022

      The problem the Tories have with Mick Lynch and Eddie Dempsey – as far as I see it – is that interviewers and opponents always open up the debate away from the railways. It’s then that the Unionists are able to go beyond remit and talk about the wider workforce on which they are, of course, right.

  5. Wanderer
    August 20, 2022

    The last time I needed the railway was to get to an airport. There was an ASLEF strike, so I had to go by car. It was about the same cost, but much less convenient.

    Prior to that I always avoided the railway because it was vastly more expensive than using my petrol engine car, for which I had already paid the fixed costs of insurance, road tax etc. The marginal cost of using it was always low, though now that’s changing.

    Now government doesn’t want us to use non EV cars. So, it presumably likes high train fares (get the Prolls out of their dirty cars, and keep ’em at home if they can’t afford an EV). It also likes high oil costs (including petrol/diesel) due to its Net Zero craze.

    I don’t have any faith they want to bring down the cost of rail to the rail consumer. And meanwhile they don’t mind subsidising what is a service for the well-off, from everyone’s tax. Just another “green” subsidy we have to pay for.

    1. Lifelogic
      August 20, 2022

      “Now government doesn’t want us to use non EV cars” – why as keeping your old ICU car rather than causing a new EV car and battery to be mined and manufactured causes less CO2 not more? Not that CO2 is really an issue. A new EV has to do about 80,000+ miles charged on low carbon electricity before any net CO2 is saved. Plus we have no spare low carbon CO2 available anyway so they will be charged mainly from fossil fuels. After 80,000 miles it is likely to need another battery (or car) to be manufactured very soon anyway. Many EVs will never even do that mileage as often second city cars.

      Also your ICU car is far cheaper as the new EV can cost up to £1 per mile just in finance costs and depreciation. This despite the rigged market that taxes ICU and subsidised EVs. Another bonkers policy caused by the deluded CO2 devil gas religion.

      I see green crap pusher and VAT on school fees Michael Gove is backing Sunak surely this must help Truss significantly. Good to see the back of the dopy, lefty, English graduate from front line politics. The man who cost me my wager on Boris first time making us suffer the appalling net zero fool one Theresa May.

      1. Sir Joe Soap
        August 20, 2022

        Strikes me that Gove really to much a schemer by half just as Sunak is too clever by half. Probably these two together would ruin the country further and faster than any other duo combination. We can only imagine how Sunak would authorise some magical new tax scheme, 120% IHT or some such, to fund a Gove crackpot scheme to open Universities for boat people or some such. It just doesn’t bear thinking about.

        1. Lifelogic
          August 20, 2022

          Sunak may be “clever” but he is an out of touch dope. He caused the inflation, £10 fines for NHS no shows, a promise of tax cuts never, eat out to help out, a non dom tax avoiding wife, retain the net zero lunacy, manifesto breaking highest taxes for 70 years, eat out to help out…he thinks this is popular and will win elections?

          Denis Healey was “clever” double first in greats but daft enough to give the nation 98% income taxes.

          1. Lifelogic
            August 20, 2022

            “Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.”

            ― George Orwell

            Lord Sumption on Spectator TV this week is surely exactly right on the appalling “on line safety” government censorship bill – even “banning legal but harmful” in someone’s official’s opinion!

      2. Richard1
        August 20, 2022

        In fairness to Gove he did point out in 2016 that Boris Johnson did not have the character to be a competent PM. In that he has been proven correct, although Boris was the right choice in 2019 as he was the best bet to stop Corbyn-Sturgeon.

        1. Lifelogic
          August 20, 2022

          So we suffered the appalling idiot one Theresa May!

      3. dixie
        August 20, 2022

        It would be interesting to see your base data – please provide references particularly for the 80,000 miles claim.
        How many miles does a new ICE car have to travel before any net CO2 is saved?
        What are the depreciation and financing costs for a new ICE car? My new EV does not have any government subsidies by the way.
        Where has the fuel for your ICE car come from and what is it’s true cost?

      4. acorn
        August 20, 2022

        What about the “devil gas” CH4, a large part of natural gas? This is getting a bit serious. UK prices are rising twice as fast as the Euro area. Forward prices for next spring, would put the price cap at two and a half times its current level. Remember that the price cap has nothing to do with the wholesale price, it just regulates the retailers who are simply acting as spiv city commodity brokers; 31 of them have gone bust.

        The UK is over twice as dependant on gas as the rest of Europe, because the UK uses gas to generate 40% of its electricity, the EU uses nearer 17%. The UK’s lack of storage means It can’t hedge against spot prices and will have to take it at the price offered by dealers this coming winter. The GB remains no longer a member of the EU Internal Energy Market as far as I know, so don’t expect any favours from there.

        What will PM Lizzy and her new Chancellor JR 😉 do to save the nation from Armageddon? The only thing they can do is to give the magic money tree an earthquake sized shake; World War 2 style; and, do away with the “full funding rule” at the DMO.

        1. Mark
          August 20, 2022

          Electricity prices in Northern Norway are less than €10/MWh (in fact tomorrow the price is less than €1/MWh over the day). Of course they benefit from their extensive hydro network, but most of all, from not being connected to prices in Southern Norway, where prices recently have soared to over €500/MWh, despite their electricity also coming from hydro as Germany bids for supply while Southern Norway reservoir levels are depleted by the exports.

          The UK has been enjoying lower electricity and gas prices than the major European countries in recent weeks and months. That has been because we have been able to land surplus LNG that can’t be landed any faster into the Continent. We have filled our gas export capability by pipeline (thus isolating our market since no more can be exported), and effectively exported more by turning it into electricity. There are still LNG ships sailing up and down or at anchor off European coastlines waiting for ports able to discharge them. We could have done even better had we been able to switch to coal generation, but politicians like blowing them up.

          European supply problems include closed nuclear capacity, reduced shipments of coal up the Rhine due to low water levels, no wind as well as sharp cuts in gas pipeline supply. What happens to the EU internal market when several countries end up short of supply and others simply cannot cover the shortfall will make for interesting viewing. The shortfall itself will be evidence of market failure, but I expect that the cosy arrangements will simply break down.

          The winter will be different because of heating demand for gas. We will no longer be able to pass through LNG volumes on the same scale, or at all and so we will be in bidding wars for marginal supply. We will be bidding against the Continent for who gets blackouts and industry shutdowns because of dispatchable capacity shortages when winds are slight. German law gives priority to domestic heating over generation for gas use.

      5. David L
        August 20, 2022

        My trusty old petrol hatchback gives me 50+mpg and is now 17 years old. what will a Tesla be like after 17 years?

        1. dixie
          August 21, 2022

          I believe the Nissan Leaf launched in 2010 so there isn’t the real world data for 17 years yet. However there are EV taxis that have done over 100,000 miles, longevity depends on how you treat and maintain the vehicle, just like with ICE cars. Despite relatively gentle use and regular servicing my previous Mercedes had transmission parts failing after 4 years and 12k miles.

  6. cuibono
    August 20, 2022

    The railway has been targeted by the far left, which, for political reasons wants to go back to the Stone Age.
    There’s a huge difference between protecting members’ ( who don’t have the sense to see how they are being manipulated) interests and following an agenda designed to deliver communism.
    Look at what the miners went through believing that the likes of Scargill could offer them a better life. Where are the mines now? And the lovely, lovely coal?
    I really would have thought that by now, in a dying, destroyed country the old “Everybody out!” cry would have worn a bit thin!

    1. Lifelogic
      August 20, 2022

      When a union get a large pay rise they nearly always do so at the cost of fewer jobs for their members. This as the more they are paid and less flexible they are the fewer the company will choose to employ. Automation, fewer services making economic sense and other “work arounds” make more sense the more expensive and inflexible the staff are.

      1. cuibono
        August 20, 2022

        +Agree entirely.
        Absolute nightmare trying to buy a ticket here…dreadful machine.
        All ticket offices will soon close I believe.
        Certainly no one will travel then because it will be impossible to buy a “valid” ticket!!

    2. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      ‘Everybody out’ has happened, everybody out of a job. Live on benefits…

      1. cuibono
        August 20, 2022

        Ah..exactly what I think!
        The agenda is to get all onto Universal Basic Income.

  7. cuibono
    August 20, 2022

    And I would say that the battle of the railways should have been the struggle, the absolute insistence that the trains kept running, indeed EVERYTHING kept functioning when the Great Imprisonment scam was attempted with some shameful success.
    Locking us in our houses FFS, stopping us travelling…shutting the country down.. at exactly whose behest I wonder?
    It does appear however that the govt. is refusing to negotiate with the RMT which seems less weak kneed that usual..maybe…hopefully.

    1. graham1946
      August 20, 2022

      The government should not negotiate with the RMT. On the other hand they should not be interfering to make things worse. First job for the new PM is to fire Grant Shapps who is totally unsuited to high office and just stirs the pot with his stupid Victorian threats. This is the man who thinks ‘Smart’ motorways are safe, even as they kill people and now wants autonomous driving cars by 2025 even though the technology is still embryonic and will not, maybe never will be sufficiently developed to cope with every complexity of the roads.

      1. cuibono
        August 20, 2022

        Agree 100%

      2. Mickey Taking
        August 20, 2022

        He wants cyclists to have number plates and pay tax – so he can’t be all bad!

        1. Mark
          August 20, 2022

          I want cyclists to be responsible road users. It can be done, as my experience of regularly cycling to work in the Netherlands revealed.

    2. Hat man
      August 20, 2022

      I agree wth much of what you say, Cuibono. But the fact is that it was the government that told people to stay home during the Covid pan(dem)ic. It was the government that told people they should not travel except for work reasons and it was also the government who directly encouraged WFH by paying ‘non-essential workers’ furlough that was 20% less than usual salaries/wages. The decline in rail use and fare income is entirely down to HMG and now they have to deal with the consequences of their actions. After all, what did they think would happen?

      Or do ‘government’ and ‘think’ not belong in the sentence, perhaps?

  8. cuibono
    August 20, 2022

    Oh I wish I understood exactly what has happened.
    Battle between Left and Right ( is there a Right?)? Capitulation to hastily signed international treaties? Being bamboozled by bogus foreign unions/assemblies etc? Borrowing from the wrong people? Having naive lefties disguised as tories in power?
    To me the biggest mystery is why ( and I know people just say he is just untruthful by nature) Johnson, in 2011 supported professor Hal W. Lewis’s view of the climate change scam and then, when PM proceeded to pursue Net Zero with such fervour.
    (Hasn’t he redoubled his efforts recently? 10,000 days or some such total rubbish..

    1. Neil Sutherland
      August 20, 2022

      The Globalists showed Johnson their ‘blackmail’ file on him after he became PM. You don’t think they would allow leaders they couldn’t control?

      1. Pauline Baxter
        August 20, 2022

        Neil Sutherland.
        I don’t think it happened quite like you’ve said but you did make me chuckle !!
        If the Globalists really did have that much power already, I’m sure the blackmail file on B.J. would be very large indeed!

      2. Peter
        August 20, 2022

        Neil S,

        No blackmail required. Johnson has always courted wealthy individuals -globalists or not.

        His initial approach was probably :-

        “ These are my principles and if you don’t like them I have others.”

  9. Shirley M
    August 20, 2022

    Ah, the advantages of working in a job where you can bring the country to a halt in your demands for preferential treatment, high wages and superb benefits. No need to go out and try to find a better job, just forcibly change the job to give what you want to receive. That’s the union theory. Even better for those in the public sector, you have job security, ie. a job for life (if you want it).

    1. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      and slowly the world changes while the UK worker doesn’t and the employer fails to cope. What happened with the Print, Docks, Cars, Coal, Steel, Post and an even slower death Railways?
      Much is made of using rail for longer distance leisure travel, but who wants to risk uncertain timetable let-down when already paying far more than 2,3 or 4 passengers in a car?
      Union action relies on holding a gun playing Russian roulette to the head of the customer, but never seeing on every threat another bullet goes in the chamber thus ensuring the death of the customer. Will they never learn?

    2. Fedupsoutherner
      August 20, 2022

      Yes Shirley and many still ‘working’ from home. WHY?

  10. Sharon
    August 20, 2022

    We want to take our grandchildren up to the Natural History Museum the week after next, but have done nothing about booking yet; because of the risk of more train strikes or fewer trains. As we will also need to drive them home after the trip up to London we are hesitating.

    The train companies and the unions are their own worst enemies. If driving into central London was a viable option, we wouldn’t hesitate to book.

    1. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      Why not drive, find a parking space using the clever parking apps (homes, businesses offer spaces, so do hotels).
      You can reserve a time frame to suit likely use.

    2. Original Richard
      August 20, 2022

      Sharon :

      If you do make a rail booking please check the evening before after 22:00 hrs that your intended trains are running.

      The new version of the ‘Conditions of Travel’ published earlier this year no longer requires rail companies to adhere to their twice yearly published timetables.

      Instead they are allowed to change the timetable from day to day and produce what is termed the “The Published Timetable of the Day”. This daily timetable must be published by 22:00 hrs the day before on the National Rail website.

  11. SM
    August 20, 2022

    Not for publication and off-topic:

    Dear John, may I suggest a diary entry from you about the costs and benefits of providing an NHS Confederation organisation and a completely separate NHS Providers organisation might be interesting and relevant, at a time when there are claims and counter-claims about funding for the NHS?

    Thank you.

    Sonia MacDonald

    1. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      not for publication?

    2. cuibono
      August 20, 2022

      I guess you mean you are not EXPECTING your very good suggestion to be published because it isn’t a comment as such?
      Headline from Daily Mail today..
      “NHS blows £1million on ‘woke groups’ for staff including ‘tea and rainbow cake’ picnics and a Filipino martial arts performance in the midst of growing cash crisis”
      It all needs to be talked about..especially since the NHS is calling for masks and “Keep Away” edicts again!!

      1. Pauline Baxter
        August 20, 2022

        cuibono.
        The Keep Away message is the only sensible message I can remember ever coming out of the NHS.
        After all, it was only because of the Covid Scam that people started rushing to A+E when they caught a cold !!

  12. turboterrier
    August 20, 2022

    The future doesn’t bode well for the rail industry as they know it.
    With the advent of driverless, guard less trains within the next decade the industry employment numbers are on the track to nowhere.
    The staff never consider their free travel as a payment in kind and reduced rates for family members.
    They still haven’t learn that the only way to expand a business is through providing customer service excellence.
    The whole gambit of the travel experience from entry into and the leaving of the stations.
    This mess really does highlight whether
    HS2 is going to be viable or necessary.?
    The unions are fighting not for their members but for their very existance as the industry will require a dramatic loss in personnel as the new technology kicks in. The same could be said about the rail companies management structure.
    Freight has surely got to be the only long term lifeline for the industry.

    1. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      and providing more flexibility with ticketing, adding overtaking passing lines to reduce stops on the way to terminals etc. Reducing unused timetabled trains between rush-hours but with more certainty the fewer will run.
      Revise the clumsy Railcard system, and consolidate fare structures to enable simpler machine vending easing withdrawal of ticketing staff who could become travelling vendors.

      1. Neil Sutherland
        August 20, 2022

        Why should commuters subsidise the service? Charge identical fares for same service to encourage them.

        1. Mickey Taking
          August 20, 2022

          Well, Railcard users simply would not travel at commuter prices. Commuters paying the off peak attractive price would make the Government subsidy unaffordable – appalling as it is already. So – catch 22?

    2. Iain Moore
      August 20, 2022

      To have a rail strike after people and companies had established the ability to work from home during Covid does seem a pretty brainless strategy, nothing like making your job an irrelevance.

    3. Pauline Baxter
      August 20, 2022

      turboterrier.
      Yes. I’ve thought for a long time that moving freight was a far more sensible use for railway lines than moving people.

  13. Bryan Harris
    August 20, 2022

    We’ll never have efficient railways while we have unions that are only interested in getting their members ever more pay and parks as well as simply being able to exercise their muscle whenever they want to.
    Where is there national responsibility? They simply do not have any.

    Union bosses know very well the damage their strikes cause, and how much pressure huge pay increases put on inflation. Do they care? No.

    The way we manage industrial relations really does need to come out of the steam age.

    1. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      The steam age employment era was millions on labour based work but get fed and drunk. Work or starve – hardly what we see now?

    2. The Prangwizard
      August 20, 2022

      Maybe the ToC’s should learn how to do what P&O did. Or what former US President Reagan did with the air traffic controllers all those years ago.

      I’m sure passengers could cope. It wouldn’t be much worse than the present situation.

    3. beresford
      August 20, 2022

      I believe the current pay offer is 4% this year and a further 4% next year which is conditional on accepting changes to conditions. Inflation is currently over 10%, so if we say for the sake of argument that next year it is 8%, we have an effective 10% pay CUT. In what way is this a huge increase or inflationary? Who created this inflation with their covid lockdowns, quantitative easing, failure to protect the energy security of the country, uncontrolled immigration, and participation in foreign wars? Will THOSE people take a 10% pay cut?

  14. Denis Cooper
    August 20, 2022

    Off topic, here is a short letter that I have sent to the Belfast News Letter in the aftermath of the Tory leadership hustings which were held there. I am scratching my head over the question that I pose at the end of the letter, as it is so obviously stupid to continue down the track of checking goods entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain when any problem for the EU will arise with the goods leaving Northern Ireland for the Irish Republic – about half of which are actually produced in the province, not brought in from outside. Is there no way that some Tory MPs with brains can explain this to Liz Truss? The text of the letter:

    “If Liz Truss genuinely intends that businesses in Northern Ireland will be allowed to operate to either EU law or UK law then she needs to explain how she will prevent the carriage of non-compliant products across the open land border into the Irish Republic and thus the EU Single Market.

    Between them Theresa May and Boris Johnson created this crazy situation whereby EU mandated checks and controls would be applied to the wrong flow of goods, imports into the province, when the focus should always have been on the goods leaving the province for the Republic, exports.

    It is now over a year since the UK government declared in its Command Paper that it stood ready to pass laws to deter those who might be tempted to send non-compliant goods across the border, and there is nothing in the protocol to obstruct that, yet nothing has been done about it – why not?”

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      August 20, 2022

      Why not? Because somebody somewhere has the intention to either return us all to the EU single market and EU customs union, or to break off NI from GB entirely. That, somewhere in some Civil Servant’s back pocket, is the choice that will be placed in front of a Mr K Starmer in about 3 years time. Keeping things as they are now until then keeps either of those options readily open. Pretty well everything is in place.

    2. Dave Andrews
      August 20, 2022

      Placing the customs checks at the NI ports makes sense if the longer term objective is to hand NI over to the Irish Republic.
      EU good, UK bad. What’s not to like?

  15. Iain Moore
    August 20, 2022

    The rail strikes in a sense are good, it reminds people in this time of Year Zero policies, where we will own nothing and be happy , how important our car is to us, and how dangerous the politician’s policies are that seek to make car ownership a past time of the rich and political elite , and making us dependent on the services of the state and the Mick Lynch’s of this world.

  16. formula57
    August 20, 2022

    Changes could be made to simplify train operation surely to allow passengers to drive themselves. Many might enjoy the experience and we could even see competitive bidding take place at driver change-over times as passengers seek the experience of driving a train.

    1. Richard II
      August 20, 2022

      Passengers driving trains, Formula57? From what I’ve seen of his programmes, Michael Portillo might be up to the job, but I doubt you or I would be.

      Alas, I suspect one of the consequences would be a good deal more work for funeral directors! They’re already overworked with the excess mortality we’re suffering at the moment, unusually for the summer season.

  17. Sir Joe Soap
    August 20, 2022

    Rail has to think out of the box to compete. Why not integrate it with hire cars or taxis to and from final destinations? Why not get the technology to predict precisely when you’ll be at the final destination, which could beat Google or other road satnav predictions which are subject to accidents and queues when railways needn’t be? Why not offer multi person discounts to compete with 2, 3 or 4 in a car?

    Like the health service, if you sold the whole lot off to a decent Google type outfit it would be sorted by a mix of business sense and technology within 3 years.

    1. anon
      August 23, 2022

      Drive on trains for small electric vehicles. They can charge on the train. Stay in own vehicle and access buffet etc.
      Or maybe just driverless cars soon enough in 2025.

  18. miami.mode
    August 20, 2022

    It was reported (Grant Shapps HoC 20.6.22) that since the original lockdown the government subsidy to the railways has been around £600 per household, a figure at which most people will be appalled.

  19. Narrow Shoulders
    August 20, 2022

    One of the (many) pushbacks we are getting about return to the office is cost. The cost has not massively escalated from before the (unnecessary) lockdowns but people have got used to not paying it and they feel they don’t have to pay it because they are oh so productive at home.

    Railways now need to attract customers, whereas before they had a captive market. That, as you often write Sir John, will require pricing strategies and reliability. Travelling by train in the rush hour is now a much more pleasant experience than it was, but is no longer a cash cow. The TOCs need to maximise the revenue from passengers through volume not margin, therefore they need more of them at lower prices.

    I do not resent the train drivers getting paid what they do but I do resent them striking for more, the only ways to stop strikes are to have alternative routes where drivers do not strike (not going to happen) or driverless trains. The unions and their members see this (still essential) service as a cash cow to be milked via the subsidies it receives from the government. They expect still more subsidy.

    1. Shirley M
      August 20, 2022

      Yes, it seems to me that the rail union wants to rob Peter to pay Paul, but Paul already earns more than Peter! There are not many jobs paying that sort of money for just a few months training.

      Just for info, I worked for a large national company at the time that computers were making an entrance into the workforce. The very large in-house sales force was the most militant department and refused to use computers. The firm made every last one of them redundant saying those jobs no longer existed, changed the job description to include use of computers and invited them to apply for the new jobs. The most militant of the employees were not rehired. Not sure whether firms could get away with that today, but it worked.

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      August 20, 2022

      +1 last paragraph. Which is why I have a lot more sympathy with the RMT than Aslef.

  20. ChrisS
    August 20, 2022

    While we have the vast majority of politicians fully signed up to Net Zero, we can get nowhere in sorting out transport. From 2030 and 2035, we are going to see the sale of new cars plummet. People will be holding on to their IC-engined cars because range, cost issues, and the poor charging infrastructure will be nowhere near having been solved. Many wiill choose to buy a new IC-engined car in 2030 and will easily be able to make it last until 2050. A Hybrid car bought in 2035 will last even longer than that.

    HS2 was always a complete waste of money, and that was before the Pandemic slashed passenger numbers.
    The significant proportion of people now WFH will prevent railways usage returning to what it needs to be to even break even on day to day running costs, let alone pay for track maintenance.

    Unfortunately “Levelling Up” and the expenditure made already make it politically impossible to cancel HS2.

    The Unions have got to be taken on and beaten over long overdue changes in working practices. This applies to every facet of the railway system, especially London Transport where Khan won’t allow any modernisation at all.
    That is the only way for staff to secure larger wage increases.

  21. Mickey Taking
    August 20, 2022

    It baffles me that the relative ease and light stress involved in driving a train pays way more than the pain and stress of driving a bus in a big city.

    1. miami.mode
      August 20, 2022

      Not that easy, Mick. The Paddington (Ladbroke Grove) crash in 1999, no definitive cause but a myriad of signals on an overhead gantry on a bit of a curve, a rejection of a safer system on cost grounds, an inexperienced driver, and 31 killed with 417 injured.

      1. Mickey Taking
        August 20, 2022

        So one awful accident that people knew was waiting to happen, justifies the last 23 years of union ransom?
        If you want a stress situation to argue your case quote the sad people who jump onto lines or infront of buses.

      2. Original Richard
        August 20, 2022

        m.m :

        A perfect example of why a driverless train is safer. Another good example is the Croydon tram crash.

        A train/tram driver is not needed if all they are simply following signals.

        As MT said above, driving a bus is far more stressful and requires far more attention than driving a train and yet train drivers are paid the double, if not more.

    2. 37/6
      August 20, 2022

      To qualify as a train driver on basic routes with basic traction requires a year’s training – courses and training is added the more a driver progresses in career, it would take up to three years of courses to qualify as a top link driver at some depots. To qualify as a bus driver takes about a month.

      Hence the pay disparity.

      One has to visualise being in charge of an intercity train which brakes have seized crossing multiple lines over a junction approaching a busy London terminus. It is your job to deal with it and all the surrounding complications such as passenger evacuation if needed. Just one of limitless scenarios that could happen.

      1. Mickey Taking
        August 20, 2022

        Oh come on – what about road rage, joyriders, mopeds being driven like its a fighting Grand Prix event. Then there are things thrown at drivers, abuse, spitting, cars cutting across them forcing crash stop braking which throws your passengers about. Early morning shifts, late night drunks….

        1. 37/6
          August 21, 2022

          MT – That’s not to point. You are comparing two entirely different trades and aptitudes.

          I’ll give you a driver’s key tomorrow.

          You drive the intercity King’s Cross to Newcastle tomorrow.

          You wouldn’t even know which hole to put it in, much less which button to press or which button to call should the aircon shut down, or the signal revert to red or the wires flap around or the engines run hot, a passenger have a heart attack, a terrorist incident… and on and on….

          1. Mickey Taking
            August 21, 2022

            my heart bleeds.

          2. Mickey Taking
            August 21, 2022

            I think you should quit driving trains – your physiological described stress points that you are doing yourself harm. How’s the blood pressure?

      2. Mark
        August 20, 2022

        The question is whether such lengthy training is needed, other than as a union sop. I would guess a month would be perfectly sufficient including all the safety and emergency drills, and a week of being a co-driver on a new route to learn the signals to watch for and the points to brake ahead of stations, points and curves, and the operating characteristics of different trains.

        1. 37/6
          August 21, 2022

          Mark

          Obviously not and Richard Branson’s (no less) first response on privatisation was to double driver’s pay. He offered no sop to the Unions but recognised the Rule Book and the aptitude to learn it.

  22. Richard1
    August 20, 2022

    The rail workers are on strike because they perceive they are monopoly service providers and their ‘customers’ have no choice. They’re wrong of course, as as you say, people find work arounds so they don’t need to rely on rail. In this context it is simply incredible a Conservative govt is proceeding with the hugely wasteful and largely useless HS2 project, which will presumably also be staffed by militant unionised workers who will from time to time seek to hold the public to ransom by going on strike.

    A better use of money would to spend a small fraction automating trains such as the tube and de-unionising the rest so they are at least reliable.

  23. Bekshire Alan
    August 20, 2022

    Does any train service in the Developed World run a cost effective service which is not subsidised by the taxpayer in some way. ?
    Surely the idea of a train service should be one of hop on hop off demand, why should you have to book in advance for a journey to get the best fare, you do not do that for a bus.
    Fully appreciate that those who want to plan in advance or want a guaranteed seat should have the option of doing exactly that, but do you actually get what you pay for, colleague of our ours booked in advance an expensive reserved seat from London to Scotland, train broke down at Finchley Park, was taken out of service, next train was full so had to stand for the rest of the way, as did many others.
    HS2 now probably too far gone to cancel, has anyone done the sums ?

  24. Roy Grainger
    August 20, 2022

    For a Friday in September the cheapest London-Newcastle train ticket is £68. The cheapest National Express bus ticket for the same journey is £9.90. Why such a big difference ? The railways need to fill their trains by lowering their prices.

    1. Mark B
      August 20, 2022

      +1

    2. Original Richard
      August 20, 2022

      RG :

      The difference is technology.

      Railways are old technology and hence expensive to build and maintain.

      Even bgger differences exist between railways and flying.

  25. Donna
    August 20, 2022

    The Government blew up the rail operating companies’ business model with the Covid lockdowns, when they permanently destroyed the commuting income.

    They stoked inflation with QE.

    The RMT has now reacted in accordance with its nature and is demanding inflation-matching pay rises as well as job security, neither of which are currently affordable and probably never will be.
    Although the strikes are inconveniencing the public, they are perfectly manageable since the former commuting class can now just choose to work from home.

    The Government is still squandering £105 billion (and the rest) on the HS2 white elephant, which has NO business case. All the indications are that we are to be forced out of private cars onto public transport. So they DO want a functioning rail system.

    I therefore suggest that the Government has deliberately stoked a battle with the RMT and is preventing a settlement from being negotiated because they know the rail unions will act as a block for its longer-term plans ….. and they wanted the battle now, at the time of their choosing, when the vast majority of the public won’t be massively affected.

    It will be interesting to see how the Government deals with the other Public Sector wage demands. The Public Sector is the only heavily unionised sector left, and they are nearly all extremely left-wing.

    1. R.Grange
      August 20, 2022

      Spot on, Donna.

  26. glen cullen
    August 20, 2022

    Could someone please tell Grant Shapps MP Secretary for Transport that we the joe public don’t want autonomous self driving vehicles, electric vehicles, HS2 and smart motorways….how about just fixing the pot holes and prioritising main road repairs

    1. Enigma
      August 20, 2022

      Excellent comment Glen 👍

    2. Donna
      August 21, 2022

      They don’t care about what you or the rest of the travelling public want.
      They care about what the UN and WEF want. And they don’t want people to have control over their own lives, including methods of travel.

  27. The Prangwizard
    August 20, 2022

    The principle in this business must be simplicity. If those who run tbe trains want to attract leisure passengers they must prioritise the ability to decide on impulse. I want freedom back. I am tired of being told I must plan and if don’t I won’t get the best price.

    The same goes for the whole of society.

  28. XY
    August 20, 2022

    If the motor car had just been invented, the modern version of “government” would no doubt be subsidising businesses that produce horse-drawn carriages.

    When will we learn / remember that business involves risk? As society and technology change, businesses must adapt or die.

    Railways are no exception. The obvious adaptation is freight – they should be able to do it cheaper and more reliably than freight by road, due to congestion issues, driver problems, speed limits etc. And also special events for passengers as the JR says.

    There’s a big question over the railways’ need for track – who should pay to maintain it – should it be the same model as the road network (with the private train companies paying government services) or something else?

  29. 37/6
    August 20, 2022

    Sir John.

    I don’t believe that the rail workers should be on strike for exactly the reason you state in this post. The loss of passengers and revenue.

    Ticket prices have risen with RPI. This is despite the fact that railway wages have stagnated for three years. The TOCs are still in profit and were throughout the pandemic.

    I believe that there would be no dispute had it not been for this fact. Rail workers had accepted pay freezes uncomplainingly during and beyond the health emergency and worked throughout it.

    Laying on special trains in normal times has never been stopped by unions.

    1. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      Short memory – we had hundreds if not thousands of trains cancelled ‘due to reduced Covid staffing’.

      1. 37/6
        August 21, 2022

        Crap.

        They ran way and above demand even during times the the Government told passengers NOT to use the railways.

        Staff were using taxis beyond normal usage during a period that taxi drivers were deemed to be the worst vectors of Covid. They did this because they thought that it was best for the country during a time of crisis.

        1. Mickey Taking
          August 21, 2022

          you’ve got me laughing tears ……well I travel by train every week – and witnessed the reduction in running.

  30. Wanderer
    August 20, 2022

    Mickey Taking…I had a mate who joined London Transport as a trainee bus driver. Drove for about a year and it was an awful job (abusive, violent passengers, London’s traffic, awful shifts) so as soon as he could he applied as a Tube driver. Much better pay and conditions. And his next step (I’ve lost contact but don’t know if he made it) was to become an overground train driver.

    From being a £16k pa supermarket delivery driver, in about 2 years he was on well over £50k (with overtime) as a Tube driver. Good on him. And people waste 4 years at Uni for worthless degrees!

    1. Mickey Taking
      August 20, 2022

      Yep…. and if you can get through the closed shop of applicants for mainline – freight drivers make £60k, passenger trains £70k – + extra shifts – out of hours working ….

    2. No Longer Anonymous
      August 20, 2022

      Poor university graduates, I say but let’s go with £50k a year as a London based Tube driver (which you’d have to be.)

      4x +1 salary plus deposit (as most enjoyed here when they bought their first house) means that you might be able to afford a £300k house in, say, Watford.

      Unfortunately you can’t buy a house for £300k in Watford. You’re looking at a 1 or maybe 2 bed apartment.

      These people aren’t living it up. They are living the very humdrum lives you think they should be for their grade.

      1. 37/6
        August 21, 2022

        In fact most of the third and fourth decade retirees here would have enjoyed 3 x + 1 salary mortgages, gargantuan house price inflation… despite interest !!! (which is always terrifying and about to go up.)

  31. Original Richard
    August 20, 2022

    The railways will continue to decline, apart from a few “Zil Lane” lines such as HS2, even with the Net Zero Strategy designed to curb personal transport, unless it can develop new technology to reduce its enormous costs.

    Driverless trains is an obvious, necessary an achievable advance but costs need to be reduced still further with a new technology to replace the 18th century gravel/sleepers/steel railway lines and wheels which are very expensive to maintain.

    Perhaps pneumatic tyres running on a monorail ?

    1. Lifelogic
      August 20, 2022

      One innovation would be rather cleaver and may become, possible and practical would be for carriages to drop of and then later attach again to the next train at stations without stopping or holding up the main train. Trains stopping times can double journey times. But if they do not stop end journeys get very long defeating the point.

    2. 37/6
      August 20, 2022

      So that driverless train slams to a halt with its brakes seized up across three lines over a junction approaching Euston station. Or does the same in the middle of nowhere.

      Who deals with that problem on a driverless train ?

      Or a faulty compressor, or a malfunctioning alternator or an ADD activation, or a passcom pulled, or a diesel engine reverted to idle, or a fuel tank puncture or an interlock failure… who drives the rescue train and couples it up with the failure ? Who applies the rules for movement of trains under degraded conditions…

      And on and on…

      You do realise drivers, throughout service, undergo a three yearly Rules exam which lasts a whole day of quick fire questioning on how to deal with the limitless problems that can happen out there. Do you know just how many things can be discussed in that time ?

      1. Original Richard
        August 20, 2022

        37/6 :

        All the possible problems you list demonstrate we need new technology as I suggested.

        1. 37/6
          August 21, 2022

          Something that works perfectly, obviously.

          You don’t happen to be one of those lucky people in her FOURTH decade of retirement like my Mum, do you ???

          Who moans to me that “British people don’t know how to work !” ???

      2. Mickey Taking
        August 20, 2022

        and how often DO THESE THINGS HAPPEN?

        1. 37/6
          August 21, 2022

          Are you serious ? All the bloody time according to Lifelogic !!!

          1. Mickey Taking
            August 21, 2022

            In that case we seem to have been buying the most useless, fault ridden rolling stock and downright dangerous permanent way – my appeal to passengers ‘don’t risk rail travel, safer by car’.

      3. Mickey Taking
        August 21, 2022

        You are really Mick Lynch, and I claim a year’s free season ticket as a prize!

      4. anon
        August 23, 2022

        The tech is not getting less able.

        Trains?
        Basically a fixed route in a mostly controlled environment. Add radar, lidar, gps, fixed sensors add automated spacing requirements. Add dual capped drive master conductors,security. Add more trains, duplicate automated systems, better frequency, longer working hours.

        Meanwhile we have re-useable rockets going to and from space

        Bend with the wind or automated drones by road 2025 or air will obviate rail.

  32. formula57
    August 20, 2022

    Rail strikes will have but muted impact on those working from home – and I surmise no impact at all on those working from Greece.

    1. 37/6
      August 21, 2022

      I imagine a lot of impact if you are a squid or an octopus.

  33. ferd
    August 20, 2022

    Trains originated because they took people from where they lived or worked to where they wanted to go at a reasonable speed. Now they do not. The nearest station to anyone outside London is miles away yet a vehicle in the garage can take them directly to their destination cheaply and efficiently. The Railways can compete now only on price or by government diktat.

    1. 37/6
      August 21, 2022

      They originated because of freight.

    2. 37/6
      August 21, 2022

      The primary function of rail was freight. Perhaps they should return to it. Or maybe the transport of bottled water, seeing as we have no reservoirs or ducts.

      1. Mickey Taking
        August 21, 2022

        It was natural raw materials – what ones could we move now? Then it became finished goods – what now?
        Finally passenger travel time reduction, and slightly more comfortable by train (third class!) than horses, before the wealthy could travel in style. It even became the thing to move workers en masse for holidays.

  34. Sea_Warrior
    August 20, 2022

    Off to Crete, from Gatwick, in a month’s time so I’ve been doing my travel planning. I have to travel from Portsmouth for a mid-morning departure. Train? The first train in the morning, which still leaves things a bit tight, is showing a fare of ….. £120! Perhaps I should drive? The cheapest long-stay parking on the Gatwick website, for a week, is £110 – and it’s possible to splurge over £300! These are eye-watering prices. I’ll be travelling the night before and staying in a budget hotel.

  35. Mickey Taking
    August 20, 2022

    Hot topic…
    Last week’s Sunday Times:-
    Oxbridge turned away 40% of applications.
    Overseas students now pay an average of £24k per year.
    Russell group say overseas make up 25% of places.
    LSE say 70% are from overseas.
    Edinburgh, Kings College and Manchester are at 40%.
    There is no set quota on places to be offered to British students.
    Rising costs are blamed for the decision to take overseas students in preference. ??
    Within family at a London top location I am told lecturers are pretty rare, you are largely on your own…begs the question ‘what rising costs’?

    1. No Longer Anonymous
      August 21, 2022

      Get all that.

      Blatantly wrong and white English boys are being discriminated against. Either that or their basic education is shit. Any other group and there would be a campaign against it.

    2. Mark
      August 21, 2022

      In my memory Oxbridge used to turn down a much higher proportion of applications – more like 2 in 3, and maybe 8 in 10 for the most oversubscribed courses. Are they no longer as attractive to apply to?

      1. Mickey Taking
        August 21, 2022

        I think it meant rejecting 40% of British applicants. I presume they are inundated with ones from abroad.

    3. glen cullen
      August 21, 2022

      UK taxpayers money educating the world

  36. Mark
    August 20, 2022

    Total traction electricity consumption in 2020-21 fell to 3,733 million
    kilowatt hours (kWh), a decrease of 12% compared with 2019-20. Total
    traction diesel consumption fell to 507 million litres, a decrease of 22%.

    Due to the effects of the pandemic, passenger kilometres fell by 81% and
    trains planned fell by 22% compared with 2019-20. As a result, estimated
    normalised CO2e emissions increased by 316% from 35.2g to 146.5g
    CO2e per passenger kilometre.

    So it isn’t even green: the average new car was rated at 120g/km as long ago as 2015, and convert to per passenger it’s clearly the greener option.

    Meanwhile the fuel bill will have increased somewhat, perhaps adding £1.5bn to costs.

    1. Original Richard
      August 21, 2022

      Mark,

      Thanks for this interesting and useful information.

      Personal transport, which the Net Zero Strategy intends to replace with ‘shared mobility’ and ‘active travel’, is not only is far more convenient for the old and infirm and anyone who has a family or needs to carry tools or goods, but is also immune to strikes and pandemics.

  37. mancunius
    August 21, 2022

    The good news is in that banner one of the rail union pickets was holding up: ‘Fair Pay!’ He looked rather morose, and I can well see why. What he really wanted was ‘more pay’. But ‘Fair Pay’ would mean being paid much less.

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