It looks as if some at the heart of government thought a trade agreement over red and green lanes would be sufficient to fix Northern Ireland and EU issues. It seems that the meeting with Unionists pointed out to the Prime Minister that the application of EU law in Northern Ireland was the bigger matter where the EU had not made the changes required. Under the Protocol itself parties are meant to give priority to the Good Friday Agreement which needs the consent of both communities to any changes . The Unionist community does not agree to the EU approach to the Protocol and to lawmaking for NI. As a result the Prime Minister doubled down on his words that there was still no Agreement to publish. He required his negotiators to return to the EU to sort out the issue of law making and enforcement in NI.
The Protocol was meant to be a temporary or holding arrangement. The EU needs to reconsider it position on these matters to assist in restoring Stormont and the tradition of working through the agreement of both communities.
February 21, 2023
A parade of untruths. The Good Friday Agreement requires cross-community support only for constitutional changes (eg a united Ireland) and our Supreme Court decided two weeks ago the Protocol is not such a change. Also, the Protocol can be changed by agreement of both sides (see its Article 13(8)) but it was never intended to be temporary. Please stick to the truth in future, Northern Ireland deserves nothing less
Reply The Protocol under EU law had to be temporary as Article 50 used for the Withdrawal Agreement could not be used for future trading arrangements after withdrawal! The EU used that against us to delay a trade agreement. Cross community consent is needed for all important matters. The EU seeking to impose laws on NI is anyway a constitutional issue. You should withdraw your false allegation about my analysis.
February 21, 2023
Cross community support is NOT needed for all important matters, it wasnât needed for Brexit. NI voted heavily for Remain but you never spoke up for cross-community support then. Please read the Good Friday Agreement before you say more wrong things
February 21, 2023
The EU Referendum was an all UK vote, not an Ulster only vote. The majority of unionists voted to leave and are now being punished, as are all Brexiteers.
February 21, 2023
It didnât vote heavily Pauline, only 38% or so of the population voted to remain. There were a high % who didnât bother to vote one way or the other.
February 21, 2023
Sir J, there is a more worrying point. It sounds as if the PM believed the proposals were adequate even with the glaring issue of attempting to apply EU law in NI.
Doesn’t say much for his political acumen.
February 21, 2023
Spot on ….all our PMs are favourable towards the EU
February 21, 2023
PeteB
+1
Worrying indeed.
I just wonder how much wider his misunderstanding goes on many other topics.
Why we have the rubber dinghy invasion.
Tax rises and Fiscal Drag on so many allowances, and Inheritance tax etc etc.
February 21, 2023
So all these talks and we find HMG had got its understanding wrong. Didnât they ask?
Nothing to do with that of course, just HMG spin. Knowing they couldnât get movement on laws and the ECJ they thought that liberalisation of trade would be enough to sell to NI politicians plus no doubt promises of weasel words and âbribesâ
We know that the EU had already briefed its ambassadors that the shoddy deal would be signed.
Like under Theresa May, keep every thing secret, sell out and bounce Parliament.
Shameful..
Shows the contempt they have.
February 21, 2023
Ii fear your party’s leadership are desperate to find a way of betraying UK sovereignty.
They are afraid of the EU because it and its member countries have so much power over us. We have sold many of our assets and industries with our governments encouragement and still keep and operate EU laws and practices.
If the EU retains any control over Northern Ireland in this case they will of course be able to extend it over England in particular in future. This cowardly weak gocernment dare not protect our sovereignty, they only pretend it’s vital.
Traitors are in control. But I fear party loyalty is more important to others than anything too.
February 21, 2023
Mr Sunak is not capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. So this NI Protocol ânegotiationâ will drag on and on while the cross channel invasion continues and which he will in effect ignore. Good weather this week means several hundred more young guests to be housed and looked after at the taxpayerâs expense.
February 21, 2023
Tax rises in hours, boat people resolution years. Deportations never, just more taxes to pay for them. Tory’s must go.
February 21, 2023
The EU is not imposing any laws on NI. This is what the UK already agreed to – EU law applies to NI thanks to Borisâs oven ready deal!
February 21, 2023
No, the NIP was only ever intended to be temporary, until Boris got a majority which he did. Its temporary nature is written into it.
Boris and Frost were forced into it by the remainiac Parliament of 2017-19 passing the illegitmate Surrender Bill. This compelled them to make a bad deal rather than no deal.
February 21, 2023
+many rose, but this excuse is rolled out again and again by remainers and the causation of the bad deal (the Benn Act) is conveniently never mentioned.
February 21, 2023
It should have been a deal breaker in 2019 âŠBoris and our MPs should never have agreed to the NIP in the first place
February 21, 2023
But they did. And it is now a binding international Treaty
February 21, 2023
Its only binding if we remain signatories to it ….lets repeal it
February 21, 2023
Not binding: temporary. Read it.
February 21, 2023
Milo are you not reading the replies?
February 21, 2023
Here is my letter published in the Belfast News Letter today:
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/letters/letter-forget-seven-tests-over-reform-of-the-northern-ireland-protocol-even-three-here-is-just-one-4034771
“Forget seven tests over reform of the Northern Ireland Protocol even three, here is just one”
“Owen Polley reduces the DUP’s seven tests to three (Northern Ireland Protocol deal is likely to leave unionists disappointed, February 20, see link below), but I would go further and set just one test:
âWill the UK be expected to operate export controls on goods being despatched across the land border into the Irish Republic?â
Because about half of those goods will have been produced in Northern Ireland, and so will not have been subjected to EU import checks at a point of entry; it follows that without UK export controls to protect the EU single market from unsuitable items being carried across the border all goods production within the province will have to continue to be governed by EU single market laws.
Which in turn will require the EU Commission to impose, and over time amend, those EU single market laws, with the EU court as the ultimate arbiter.
So far there is no indication that Rishi Sunak is pressing for that â or indeed any other â change to the protocol, which would effectively return the customs and regulatory border to where it belongs, coincident with the international frontier.â”
There is also a very good letter here:
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/opinion/letters/letter-if-rishi-sunak-is-saying-that-rule-taker-status-is-a-positive-thing-for-northern-ireland-then-it-must-be-for-the-rest-of-the-uk-4034774
headed:
“If Rishi Sunak is saying that rule taker status is a positive thing for Northern Ireland then it must be for the rest of the UK”
February 21, 2023
I’m a little uncertain as to the extent by which EU laws affect NI. Could you elaborate?
February 21, 2023
Are we really supposed to believe that Sunak doesn’t understand the meaning of Sovereignty; who governs; who makes the laws; how they are chosen and how they are held to account?
Because that’s why we have Eire and Northern Ireland and it’s the whole point of the Good Friday Agreement.
He either isn’t terribly bright; or he’s being very badly advised; or he thought he could bully the toughest, most principled MPs in the UK.
Does he really think sorting out how quickly sausages can be delivered to NI is going to solve the problem. We should ditch Johnson’s “deal” and LEAVE the EU.
February 21, 2023
The EU would not agree with Northern Ireland making laws to control the EU, so the EU should keep its interfering nose out of Northern Ireland and try sorting out its own mess.
February 21, 2023
Nor would Southern Ireland agree with the UK making laws to control it.
February 21, 2023
Bloke, you do understand it was Boris Johnson who agreed that EU law would apply in NI, donât you? Theresa May refused that but Boris accepted it in his oven ready deal
February 21, 2023
Mrs May arranged for us all to be trapped in the Customs Union under EU law and without an exit clause. She had been so very stupid and idiotic in what she did that it was difficult to undo. But most of it was undone, with the last bit being left till there was a parliamentary majority.
February 21, 2023
She also arranged for us not to have a say.
February 21, 2023
Well said Rose
February 21, 2023
Pauline:
Yes, both Johnson was wrong as well as May before him in different ways.
February 21, 2023
As far as brexit goes “the Unionist community” are the minority and by some margin, the majority in NI having voted Remain.
It’s commendable to care about minorities, so why does John apparently not give two hoots about the vastly larger “productive, economically-active, educated, talented community” in England who voted Remain?
February 21, 2023
you are sooooo Brexit obsessed. Get over it. The majority, by some margin, voted to Leave.
February 21, 2023
+1
February 21, 2023
Whether they voted leave or remain is irrelevant. They are 100% British citizens and deserve the same rights as anyone else in the UK.
February 21, 2023
100% Dave.
February 22, 2023
No, 34.95% of the NI electorate voted to remain in the EU: there was a low turn out of 62.65%
February 21, 2023
No negotiation with the EU. We just tell them that NI is part of the UK and subject to UK laws. The EU can just butt out and mind its own business. Just because the UK government foolishly signed up to the NIP doesn’t alter the fact it’s folly to continue with it.
Errors and omissions excepted.
February 21, 2023
Please face up to reality. It is not about trade. Trade is merely the narative to hide the real purpose of the NIP from an EU perspective. It is control leading to the erosion of NI’s status as a fully functioning part of the UK. To most of us in the UK this it totally unacceptable. So to Mr Sunak I say stop pissing about, use legislation in process and Art16 to end the NIP for good. The EU and Biden can go sing to the moon.
February 21, 2023
Agree, I believe the EU want a United Ireland, because they want full control.
Given we have promised to put it to a vote if the majority appear to agree, why do we not just do that in due course with due process.
Let the Irish people of the North decide, if they do, then why not ask the South if they actually want the North.
February 21, 2023
Sounds like a plan to me AG
February 21, 2023
Iâm amazed Prime Minister Sunak did not understand EU oversight of Northern Ireland was always the biggest stumbling block?
February 21, 2023
It must be the dry rot in No10 that changes the mindset of successive PMs
We had Cameron who could not believe that he had lost the referendum. We then had May who tried to swindle us with Brexit in name only. Boris got us out of the EU and in fairness he thought a reasonable discussion with the EU would sort out the Protocol. After 18 months of a pandemic and a serious dose of Covid he found out that a ”reasonable discussion with the EU” is impossible.
We now have Rishi riding into battle with all the usual enthusiasm and coming back with a half baked idea of red and green lanes for trade, leaving NI subjected to EU law and trying to sell this to his fellow ministers.
Grow up Sunak, get the Bill through parliament, restore Stormont and establish our true sovereignty and start to reap the benefits of Brexit for the WHOLE of the UK>
February 21, 2023
Well put Sir, but as we both know the EU do not want concord, they thrive on obfuscation and deceit, that and the Remain rump still with us muddying the waters.
February 21, 2023
Maybe Sunak had a plan but decided to kick it into the long grass after assessing the possible fall out from an unsatisfactory agreement ?
February 21, 2023
Those “some at the heart of government” reveal a dangerous lack of understanding and a readiness to harm British interests. Why are they permitted to remain in place?
February 21, 2023
Absolute nonsense. HMG knew the DUPs red lines and decided they would bounce them with a fait accompli. And I see Brandon Lewisâ decidedly unhelpful contribution
February 21, 2023
To most of us, this is a test of the PM. How tough is he, how determined to work for the UK first & foremost? How determined not to allow a foreign power to rule in the UK? Is he a leader or just a manager? Does he believe in the UK & its people? Does he believe in Brexit?
The N.I. Protocol & illegal immigration are the key tests which will decide the fate of the PM & the Conservative Party at the next General Election.
February 21, 2023
Whatâs Starmer said, heâd just agree the EU deal?
February 21, 2023
Itâs a bit worrying that the heart of government has so little knowledge about the situation in Northern Ireland. Yet again they seem to think Brexit was about trade. It was never about trade and the fact they canât understand that itâs about democracy tells me they arenât up to the job of running our country.
February 22, 2023
Things like the economy and trade are what puts money in peoples’ pockets, and this government’s Brexit has made us worse off. Democracry doesn’t help pay the rent, pay utilitiy bills or pay higher food prices. Money in peoples’ pockets does that, which means fewer barriers to trade. Brexit is the only trade deal in history which has been about creating new barriers to trade that weren’t there before.
February 21, 2023
Dear Mr. Redwood,
The worrying thing is who are these people ‘at the heart of government’ who seem to have so little grasp of the sensitivities of Northern Ireland politics that they believe a simple red and green lanes trade fix would assuage the Unionist community’s genuine and serious concerns about the democratic deficit? Why would it need to be pointed out to the Prime Minister that the application of EU law in Northern Ireland was the bigger matter? Doesn’t he know already? If they do not understand this then why are they involved at all?
Perhaps, their specialty is in trying to hoodwink the Unionists.
February 21, 2023
Alan, it is eerily reminiscent of Mrs May’s interpretation of the vote to leave the EU. She thought all she had to secure was an end to free movement. She then arranged for us to be trapped inside the Customs Union, obeying EU law, paying them money, without a say, and without an exit clause.
February 21, 2023
It is about time everybody recognised the endless EU intransigence. There can be no compromise, no evidence of being reasonable or fair, we simply have to act in defiance – it is the only way to deal with them.
February 21, 2023
M T
Afraid when the the Mp’s in Parliament made the decision/vote, that any deal we were to be given by their friends in the EU would be better than us walking away, it sealed our fate for the future, with endless complications and arguments which will doubtless go on for decades. !
February 21, 2023
Is there some reason why we can’t just say the EU must leave Northern Ireland? No EU customs, no EU laws, no EU court, no EU oversight of anything, no data given to the EU, no EU presence?
Why seven tests?
February 21, 2023
rose,
Yes. Continuity Remain. They threw out any chance of âNo Dealâ exit and undermined the U.K. negotiators. Hence the dogsâ breakfast we have now.
February 21, 2023
Rose, we can do this. It would be a violation of Borisâs oven ready deal which explictly accepts EU law applies in Northern Ireland but we can do it. We will be telling the whole world that the UK cannot be trusted, that the UK makes agreements and then tears them up when it suits it. No one will take the UK seriously ever again. And the US most of all will impose very heavy penalties on the UK if it does what you suggest, because it means a hard border on the island of Ireland. Rose, the Brexiters never told you the truth about complicated Brexit is, and they are not telling you the truth now
February 21, 2023
Milo, it is you who are not telling the truth.
Brexit is not complicated. The Civil Service (who are permanent and numerous), the House of Lords (ditto), the media, the judiciary (also permanent), three quarters of the House of Commons, and above all the EU itself, including Southern Ireland, did not want us to leave. They have spent 7 years trying to thwart us. That is where your complexity comes from. Simple obstruction. There was nothing complicated about the Southern Irish border either. But it was weaponised by the obstructionists. And here we are.
The EU’s own Treaty of Lisbon makes clear exit is not difficult. It also says in article 8 that the EU must foster peace and prosperity on its borders. The EU has done the opposite. In vengeance.
February 21, 2023
Rose, +++++++. So right. Simplicity comes easy when there is a will, and the unapologetic ruining of so much of value by the mandates and over-riding of the rights and freedoms of the people of these islands is an example which we should not forget.
February 21, 2023
+1
February 21, 2023
Of course it shouldn’t be difficult.
Cameron said we’d leave in the event of a leave vote the day following the referendum, then bottled it.
May made it stupidly complicated just as the EU wanted.
Johnson got dragged down and couldn’t handle the detail.
Now we’re back to continuity May, making it stupidly complicated again.
NI for example is simple. UK wants no more borders than we had pre-2016, as we are tariff-free on goods with the EU. Free movement of people North and South continues. Let the EU build that wall if they want to, to stop our goods entering their so-called market, or place a border between Ireland and France. Why is this so tough to get across to the EU?
February 21, 2023
Meanwhile the rest of the world has its own politicians who can be trusted even less.
February 21, 2023
The member states of the EU have land borders with 20 other nations worldwide and 12 other countries have physical borders with the EU âŠ.why is it that only one country has a protocol
February 22, 2023
Other countries like the EFTA countries, Turkey, Mercosur, ACP countries ⊠have bilateral agreements, economic partnership agreements, free trade agreements, association agreements, and partnership and cooperation agreements, but all these countries had never been part of the EU before such agreements were signed.
In that respect UK is the odd one out as it had been the only country to get out of a previous (EU) agreement.
You might want to consider the protocol like the Non-Disclosure Agreement that people are often required to sign when leaving a company.
February 21, 2023
I’m surprised the Prime Minister would need to instruct his Secretary of State and Minister of State for Northern Ireland to return to the EU, if they’re the negotiators you mention, for both Heaton-Harris and Baker are well aware that sovereignty is the key issue and would have fed this to the Foreign Secretary, though he wouldn’t need telling either.
Who, with any grasp of the situation, thinks this is primarily a trade issue and is taking an active role in negotiations?
February 21, 2023
A good comment piece by ALEX STORY in the Express yesterday.
âThere can be no hard borders within the United Kingdom. To grant a foreign power the right to adjudicate over any part of our territory without the freely given consent of his Majesty subject via the ballot box is an impossibility, if not a detestable act of needless capitulation.
Standing on this solid piece of intellectual rock, this position makes any negotiation with the European Union simple, if not easy.â
February 21, 2023
But a hard border between GB and NI is EXACTLY what the British people voted for at the 2019 General Election. That was the whole point of the oven ready deal, it sold out Northern Ireland, which is why the DUP opposed it
February 21, 2023
It assuredly did not. We were told we could tear up any customs documentation by the future Prime Minister who then failed to enact the necessary legislation. In that sense, we were lied to. We voted for the UK to have a spine, not for it to be broken in two.
February 22, 2023
In that case, put the responsibility where it should be, Alexandre Boris de Pfeffel Johnson.
February 21, 2023
It has always been obvious, to me at least, that the democratic deficit was the key sticking point, and it is difficult to understand why the Prime Minister did not realise that there could be no involvement of the EU . Our Government needs to stand up to the EU. If Theresa May had done so to start with, and not given away all our bargaining strength at he beginning, the whole Brexit mightg have been completed more easily. Let’s not continue making the same mistake.
February 21, 2023
Goods to the Irish Republic should go direct to Dublin / Cork etc . The EU have no right to decide what goes on in UK territory full stop .
February 21, 2023
Agree …. and if we went the WTO route we wouldn’t be in this mess and they’d be no need for a NIP
February 21, 2023
What happened to those committees that could be set up to resolve disputes, or where one party breached the rules.
Why haven’t we called out the EU for crossing the line, by affecting the Good Friday agreement!
Why haven’t we demanded a committee be formed to work this out?
Negotiations are all very well when you are dealing with an honest party, but for some reason the UK always gets screwed when arbitration with the EU takes place.
If there had been no protests, just what crooked deal would we have ended up with this time?
February 21, 2023
The EU are trying to do to NI
The same as Russia is doing to the Ukraine
Without the violence, we need to stand up to the EU as we are to Russia
February 21, 2023
I want to congratulate the 100 Tories and especially the fabulous Spartans who have stated that they WILL rebel if the PM abandons NI and kowtows to the EU. A possible vote of Confidence.
You are in politics to achieve more than a living! Thank you all. NOTHING is more important than the sovereignty and cohesion of our country, the United Kingdom.
February 21, 2023
It is blindingly obvious that the consent of both Catholic and Protestants is necessary in order for any piece of legislation to comply with the GFA.
It is therefore hardly surprising that the DUP will not return to Stormont while the EU is determined to impose EU law in the province. This has been obvious since the EU tried to impose its hard-line interpretation of the NIP.
How the EU and Sunak could think that they could bully the DUP into accepting the role of the ECJ in NI is beyond me.
I do not blame Boris for this : In order to get any progress on Brexit, he had to agree to the Protocol because too many MPs and the Lords refused to go along with leaving under no deal which, with hindsight, would have been the better option. Many Brexiteers posting here thought that No Deal was the best option.
Had we done that, the EU would have accepted the situation and, when we refused to impose a border in NI, they could not do so either. They would then have accepted the bl**ding obvious point that the whole issue of needing to protect the single market was a fiction created for the sole purpose of making Brexit difficult. Brussels were never going to break the GFA by imposing a border on the island were they ?
February 21, 2023
Precisely, or May could have just said that the EU could do what they wished their side of the NI/EU border. We would do nothing on our side as this was de facto a free trade zone under the FTA.
Pretty simple really. Governed by idiots, of which May wasn’t even properly elected at the time. Neither Sunak.
February 21, 2023
Under our constitutional arrangement parliament reigns supreme and so it doesn’t matter too much about whether the rump party the DUP or Sinn Fein agrees or not – if the DUP are Democrats as they say they are then they will go along with the government and parliament on this and all matters pertaining.
I can remember a time not so long ago the DUP held the whip hand in Parliament but sorry to say it was a wasted opportunity for them because of playing silly games and by opposing May’s reasonable enough proposals and then backing Boris and Frost on their road to nowhere.
Instead they should have used their unique position to better advantage in getting it right for themselves – so no point in crying now about what is lost – the important thing now is that we think of the greater good – let government negotiate and parliament decide – that is democracy in action – otherwise chaos
February 21, 2023
The reality in NI is that the Protestant parties, like the Catholic ones, each have an effective veto over the GFA.
That was very clearly written into the agreement and accepted by all sides. It is therefore pointless Brussels and London trying to stitch up a deal behind the backs of the DUP.
We have been here before, when the Catholic representatives refused to sit at Stormont unless the Irish Language was accepted in NI. Why should it be any different in this case where the Protestants will not accept the jurisdiction of a foreign court ?
February 21, 2023
Starmer has gone one better than you, Fran. He has said he and his party will vote for a hypothetical foreign treaty without having seen it.
February 22, 2023
The MPs will see it on the day they will have to vote on it, like it happened on 30 December 2020 when in the evening the text only shown in the morning was passed by the HoC (recalled in an emergency session) by 521/73 after ⊠all of 14 hours of âscrutinyâ on a 1,246 page treaty.
Whoah, isnât it incredible how adept at speed reading all these MPs are.
And the TC&A was as much a âforeign treatyâ as what the PM might present in the coming days/weeks. For someone so keen on history you seem to have a very selective memory.