I would have thought the French would want to stop the dangerous criminal boat businesses from their beaches. They act as a magnet meaning too many people congregate near the beaches and live rough close to their ports and seaside settlements. Do the people of France want these unhappy camps? Do they not have a better legal answer for the residents there? Are they happy with such settlements in their neighbourhoods?
It also means they fail to tackle obvious criminality by the boat organisers.
The criminals who run the boat services are doubtless breaking some or all of the following laws
1 Offering sea passages for fares without a licence
2 Overloading boats , risking the passengers
3 Using unsuitable boats for Channel conditions
4. Failing to keep a manifest of the passengers
5. Failing to declare revenue and profits to the tax authorities
6 Using the proceeds of crime
7 Aiding people seeking to break migration laws
8 Accepting passengers without a valid passport or travel document
9 Launching passenger boats and embarking passengers without a proper jetty or pier
10 Encouraging or assisting people into illegal work on arrival at destination.
They may well be committing even more serious crimes if they do lose passengers overboard or lose the boat, or if their activities spread into other illegal businesses.
It should not take UK encouragement and money to get these laws enforced.
It should be possible for the French authorities to see these boats leaving with too many people on which they should intercept. Their intelligence services should be following the money and working out the big business gangs behind much of this. They could be mystery shoppers asking rates and times of crossings. They could be talking to people in the camps and woods by the sea about ways for them to get a better life legally.
March 11, 2023
Good Morning,
We have a naive and foolish PM. Doing the same thing over again and expecting a different outcome is….
To stop people coming we need to stop the ‘PULL’. This means if you arrive illegally, then you are a criminal and will treated as such. How to do this, if you arrive without any identification documents, you are illegal and therefore criminal. Why would a genuine asylum seeker dispose of the documents that prove they are at risk.
What do you do with illegal migrants?
1. Offer to transport them back to their home country.
2. If no to the above, then there’s a 5 year custody plan, secured, with food and lodging, where you are taught the skills to live in UK, and will work to make the nation better. Your skills will be assessed and tasked appropriately. Those without skills will do the work that needs doing, crop picking, pot-hole filling, street sweeping etc. At ANY time you can ask to return to your home country. At the end of 5 years you will be given leave to stay.
March 11, 2023
Is there no end to the largesse of that stupid man paying half a billion for a detention centre in France.
No doubt like the NI protocol he’ll be selling this as a massive breakthrough.
For the almighty sake get rid of him and his chicom sidekick
The world must be in stitches.
March 11, 2023
Open borders suit those who want to undermine the stability of nation states.
Politicians are discouraged from taking tough action.
If the boats were sunk in The Channel the problem would stop.
If illegals were held offshore in harsh conditions, until they agreed to leave the UK, the problems would stop.
If Viktor Orban were in charge the problems would stop.
However, our politicians are conditioned to just put up with the situation while pretending to address the situation, usually by throwing away large sums of our money.
They would also be too weak to handle the protests from the usual suspects if they did take effective action.
March 11, 2023
Peter
Orban doesn’t run a democracy and his judiciary is not independent
March 11, 2023
That sounds like a quote from Soros and his ‘Open Society’ crew.
Here’s what the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe said about the last Hungarian elections: ‘Hungaryâs parliamentary elections offered voters distinct alternatives and were well run, but while competitive, the process was marred by the pervasive overlapping of government and ruling coalitionâs messaging that blurred the line between state and party, as well as by media bias and opaque campaign funding, international observers said in a statement today.’
So it wasn’t like e.g. Cameron and government messaging in favour of Remain, they don’t have our wonderful unbiased media, nor did they have a judiciary like ours that showed absolutely no Remain bias as we know (!). Poor Hungarians. How they must envy us the blessings of democracy!
March 11, 2023
The EU seems to agree with everything you say bill.
March 11, 2023
I remember seeing a film about the Iraq âwarâ.
It showed the greedfest , the pre-invasion chops licking.
Covid and small boats maybe the same?
A huge company with many VERY generous government contracts..NO expense spared.
Very strange, startling even if one looks at the top dogs.
And no echoes whatsoever of âFighting them on the beachesâ!!
March 11, 2023
Right diagnosis. We can’t keep moaning to the French while refusing to reduce the pull factors.
Wrong answer. Five years training followed by citizenship with presumably the ‘right’ of family reunion would be attractive to many. Firstly we should change the law so that we can use all reasonable means to discover the real age and origin of the migrant. Then ideally they should be immediately deported after a cursory hearing, to their home country if possible, or to a bribeable Third World country, or to France. We should be prepared to pay the recipient country because it would be cheaper in the long run. Failing that they should be placed in single sex detention camps in inhospitable and remote areas of the country until they agree to go home. No phones, if they want to contact anyone they can send a message via the guards.
These measures seem harsh but after an initial period the business model will be broken and the flow will reduce to a trickle.
March 11, 2023
@Peter Wood +1
Observation; according to the MsM these criminals are paying criminal gangs upto 30K to facilitate their arrrival on UK shores. In some of the EU States they have realised that these guys have money and now charge them, charge them their own return trips, charge the any accomadation required. The UK Government? Is there one? they seem to take the stance lets pay and award criminality only when the criminal is not a UK Citizen – the UK Government is using UK taxpayer money to fund foriegn criminal gangs.
March 11, 2023
No, you must remove them immediately, we need to change the laws to enable us to do that. For starters the refuge convention. It is bit of virtue signalling from 70 years ago, it is unworkable , why there is no attempt to change it I really don’t know, it is not as if we wouldn’t get support from other European nations for we would find friends and allies in Italy, Sweden etc.
We also need to challenge the ‘truths’ the left have established, like the right to a family life. Don’t other countries have families? In fact they value families more than we do here where the family is under attack. Or the blanket claims that because there is strife in one area of a country we have to take their refugees, when few countries are in complete melt down. Take Somalia , Somaliland, the northern area of the country, ex British protectorate, is safe , the Islamic insurgency is taking place in the South.
What ever we do it must begin with returning the migrants and that is going to be unpleasant for a while as we will be deluged with emotional blackmail, but if we hold our nerve then the migrants will stop trying their luck, after all the biggest pull factor is our weak willed politicians, and migrants knowing they can blag their way into our country.
March 11, 2023
We need to put them in secure army barracks and keep them there until we can send them back âŠno money, no phones, no solicitors, no appeal âŠ..oh we canât because weâre signatories to the council of europe ECHR
March 11, 2023
Oh, butâŠ. Even though we put soldiers, airmen and women in them they are now too dangerous and could⊠could have asbestos! Iâve heard it all now. The same people who want no borders, as many people as want to come allowed to come are the same people wanting oodles more money, without taxes increasing to health, education, pensions, they live in Wonderland where the rich stay and pay over 65% of every ÂŁ1 they earn over ÂŁ50,000 to pay for their desires, even if theyâre not willing to work more than 16 hours per week themselves.
Iâve never thought anyone should be cancelled for their words, but if the left start this game it was only ever going to end one way when suddenly the cancelled are one of their own. I just think for the time being it will be very interesting to have just the football highlights without any commentary at all. Chris Moyles thought he was bigger than the BBC that allowed him to build his presence. Eventually theyâll find the right replacement show, just put fans on the show for the couple of matches that have been chosen as âthe matches of the dayâ.
March 11, 2023
Glen: But look at what we saw with Napier Barracks, south coast, it just wasn’t / isn’t good enough for those accommodated with all the usual suspects making all the usual accusations. Improvements were required & I believe were attended to. Luxury it wasn’t but sanctuary it was. Then there was Linton-on-Ouse, N. Yorkshire, the local MP rebelled as did the local residents, and rightly so and plans abandoned. Now there is MDP Wethersfield under consideration in the constituency of a Cabinet member. The problem is with the actual capacity of these places, not just a couple of hundred turning up which would be bad enough & a burden and worry for any community but many hundreds. Linton, e.g. would have been about 1500 capacity if I recall correctly, raising the possibility of 1500 unknown and largely undocumented individuals descending on a small rural community.
March 11, 2023
The pull factor to the UK is increasing and this can be directly measured by the doubling of illegal immigrant boat travelling from North Africa to Europe, this year alone (Al Jazeera News)âŠ.heading directly to the UK
March 11, 2023
So, just picture this scenario.
There are loads of migrants in the UK, who do not want to be here,. but who are desperate to reach France for whatever reason.
How hard would you expect your Tory government to work to keep them here?
How much money would you accept from France to do it?
Come on?
March 12, 2023
No, I didn’t think that there would be any answers.
March 12, 2023
Maybe because it is a stupid question
March 12, 2023
Nah.
You’d want them to be packed onto ferries and dumped on the French beaches, wouldn’t you?
In other words the diametric opposite of what you demand of the French.
March 11, 2023
Send the fit young men of fighting age to our friends in Ukraine where they might be of some use.
March 11, 2023
David Paine
What about contributing with something relevant
March 11, 2023
@ Peter Wood – so your scheme is akin to that of Sunak – let them all in anyway. The disadvantage you introduce is the morally questionable term of effective slavery (albeit with a deportation option) that apart from anything else would deprive of livelihood all those at present doing the “crop picking, pot-hole filling, street sweeping etc.”.
I do agree though what you propose is a less appealing prospect than the present free at the point of use sojourn in a four star hotel.
March 11, 2023
Good morning.
Sir John, as you may well know but cannot say, the French government are only too happy for this to continue as it pushes the problem elsewhere.
If you want to discourage this you have to do the following :
1. Cut all benefits that asylum seekers get to the level, or just below, that the French government offer. This will discourage many from making the attempt.
2. Request that the French government allow British officials to process all those who wish to claim asylum in the UK in France, on the understanding that any that are refused asylum for the UK automatically qualify for asylum in France, and therefore cannot go to the UK.
3. Stop ferrying them across. To do so is seen as an invite.
4. Allow them to travel and arrest them when they arrive.
5. Transport all convicted illegals to special holding centres on remote Scottish Islands.
6. Send the Royal Navy to the Mediterranean and especially North Africa and prevent them from crossing there into the EU.
Those very few that are genuine asylum seekers will go for Option 2 and settle for Option 1 as it would be no different.
Once in the EU they are free to travel anywhere they wish. They head for the UK because those in power are soft, stupid and don’t care about the consequences so long as they can virtue signal or look tough depending on public mood.
Australia led the way. It would not be a bad example to follow.
March 11, 2023
Spot on Mark.
It always puzzles me why it is claimed to be so hard to stop the boats. Google Earth lets anyone zoom in and find their own house. Our security services (& presumable those of the French) can use satillite images to identify a vehicle or individual in real time. A 30 foot long inflatable should be no problem.
It isn’t hard to find them, it’s hard to get the French to stop them.
March 11, 2023
Trouble isâŠ
They donât want us to be warm.
They donât want us to travel beyond a 15 minute walk.
They donât want us to eat our traditional food.
AND âŠthey donât want toâŠhave no intention whatsoever of stopping the boatsâŠ
Because the boats will make the imposition of global rule so much easier!
Cull and replaceâŠtotal control.
March 11, 2023
Mark B
Cut every benefit no variations at all.
When I moved to Spain all I could get was 2 years free NHS once I could prove I was entitled to it by what I had paid in stamps in the UK.
Nothing else sweet BA. Pay your own way or get a job, start a business and pay their taxes.
March 11, 2023
Did they pay for interpreters? This seems a massive cost on a lot of public services.
March 11, 2023
a-tracy.
Nothing was for free
You choose to live and work here?
Spanish is our language. Pay to be taught or pay for an interpreters.
March 11, 2023
https://nawc.org.uk/resolutions/review-the-cost-of-the-translation-services-being-paid-for-by-the-tax-payer/ Review of the costs
7 Jun 2022 â NHS spent ÂŁ66 million on translation and interpreting services in 2019/2020,
March 11, 2023
A-Tracy. NO. They don’t pay for interpreters. You have to provide your own or learn the language. They don’t have leaflets in 40 different languages either. They don’t like spending their taxpayers money unnecessarily.
March 11, 2023
” you may well know but cannot say, the French government are only too happy for this to continue as it pushes the problem elsewhere.”
But why are they happy? Not because the problem is being pushed elsewhere. On the contrary, it is compounding the problems for the French by attracting ever more illegal immigrants into France in the first place.
They are happy because we are being punished. As Poland was by Russia pushing illegal immigrants through Belarus. For some reason we went and helped the Poles repel those illegal immigrants, but we won’t do it for ourselves and no-one is going to help us, not even our nearest neighbour.
March 12, 2023
Very good point, rose
March 11, 2023
I lived and worked in France for quite a few years. Before arrival I naively thought they were “like us”, and I was also an EU enthusiast since it gave me the “right” to move there.
What a wake up call! . First off, my “right” to move there was a con trick…I had to prove I had financial means, or leave within 90 days (my enthusiasm for the EU evaporated).
I soon discovered that The Elysee and the powerful public services do whatever they want and the average citizen is powerless. The system decides which laws to apply to whom, and how to interpret them. Paris despises “provincial France”. The system is corrupt, utterly self-serving and vindictive. There are occasional street protests where people are allowed to let off steam.
So, they won’t do any of the reasonable things you suggest. The migrants provide leverage over the UK, which is to be punished for leaving the EU. Calais citizens will have to “lump it” and the migrants are just useful pawns in a power game.
Sadly in the past ten years our country’s institutions have become more like the French ones.
March 11, 2023
No surprise to many of us, let the truth be told.
March 11, 2023
Do not allow the boats at sea to cross into our waters. Do not provide a taxi service especially when in French waters. Do not give fantastic accommodation. Do not give benefits. Make use of the Scottish islands for processing but don’t offer asylum on the grounds that they’ve entered illegally. Do not allow their families to join them and if they are Albanian without papers send them straight back. Why does an Albanian need to enter our country illegally when they could get a Ryan Air flight at a cheaper price?
Failing this surely it can’t be difficult to find out who these dinghies are being produced by and who is on the receiving end. Macron won’t be the answer to our prayers. It’s just more of our money being thrown away.
March 11, 2023
Sunaks detention plan will fail, France will always ask for more money. We are still under the thumb of the EU. Macron said it’s because of Brexit, when we were in he had to do something at least to stop illegal immigration, now that we are out he just gets money from us. Time for us to rejoin. Once the nasty party is kicked out Brexit will be consigned to history.
March 11, 2023
Totally agree, all this deal has achieved is more to aid and abet the people trafficking gangs. Begs the question is the EU or big business involved in anyway? There is a lot of taxpayers money being thrown about for others to get rich on???
March 11, 2023
Sir JR
This is not a serious contribution to the debate on the boat people.
These people are desperate and ahve treid anthing their power to reach their destination.
The French are doing alot to stop them , but they have their own rules and laws to follow as well.
But when people are desperate enough they will alsways find a way to reach a land where they often speak the language.
Your questions are out of place with the desperation of the migrants
March 11, 2023
Why are we employing so many interpreters at tax payers’ expense in so many departments of the state? Why do GPs incur a huge cost to their surgeries in supplying this service? Incidentally, no other country would do this. Abroad, people are expected to bring their own interpreters with them.
March 11, 2023
We look forward to you opening your spare rooms to these unfortunate people bill.
March 12, 2023
EU fan
Why don’t you contribute with something relevant??
March 11, 2023
Put your money and home where your mouth is Bill. If they can afford to spend shed loads of money to get here and have no papers they are not genuine refugees. Why is there no sympathy for Brits who are in unsuitable housing and face years on the waiting list for a home? Where are the homes for over 40000 people going to appear from. Extra NHS places and school classrooms for the extra population? Our population is rising not not from the indigenous people.
March 12, 2023
Fedsouthener
As you have no idea what I am involved in I will not lower myself to your level of debate.
March 13, 2023
You normally do
March 11, 2023
Why should the French do anything at all when our government keeps shovelling money at them. They do nothing to stop the boats and yet more money is handed to them. The latest hand out by Rishi the Usurper is allegedly half a billion pounds! Why should the French abandon such a good business model?
All the crimes being committed, as you list above, Sir John, more than justifies instructing the navy to turn the boats around. Lives saved and crime stopped immediately. Untold millions saved in payments to lawyers.
March 12, 2023
EU fan
Why don’t you contribute with something relevant??
March 11, 2023
The french are happy to see the back of these migrants to the UK.
March 11, 2023
Itâs in the French interests to take our money and continue to export the problem to the UK. Without transporting all the migrants offshore for asylum processing immediately they arrive, this crisis is set to continue and worsen. Legislation on its own wonât stop it. England is not a safe country in which to live.
March 11, 2023
“England is not a safe country in which to live.”
Neither is France.
It should have been obvious to the French that Schengen would have this effect.
March 11, 2023
Iâm getting an inkling that Artificial Intelligence (AI) will find it very hard to suppress free speech and facts. I think John will find it very good to suddenly bring a strong level of honesty and truth back into politics and debate.
AIs credibility will depend on facts, so you can ask it a direct question. All it takes is one search engine to break ranks and the credibility of the others will be shot.
There will a market for the truth.
For example âis there a correlation between crime and such and suchâ. Then you can drill into the details and get the actual value of the correlation.
Imagine the questions you can ask and how the AI will help or try to steer you off.
What are the crime figures for ⊠when did the Government stop publishing the figures for those crimes ⊠do the police still collect those figures. Who was the minister responsible for stopping the publication of the crime figures that showed âŠ
The age of spin may be over and we are entering an age of honesty.
March 11, 2023
@ Javelin “…we are entering an age of honesty” – ! How will that work though, as we cannot handle the truth?
March 11, 2023
France doesn’t have control of its borders and doesn’t want it. But it also doesn’t want the criminal migrants which the EU’s failure to control the union’s borders has led to. So Macron is quite happy to get rid of a large number of them …. and using the pathetic, virtue-signalling, gullible and cowardly British Establishment to do it.
We have to pay to “encourage” Macron to apply the rule of law to the criminal migrants because Sunak and the Not-a-Conservative-Government haven’t got the cojones to do what is necessary to stop the invasion. So their only alternative is to pay “The Dane” to go away. And Rudyard Kipling told us how that turns out:
https://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poem/poems_danegeld.htm
Meanwhile, the vanity train-line known as HS2 is now costing us ÂŁ100 billion+ to NOT go to the north and to NOT go to central London ….. because the idiots in Government haven’t got the guts to cancel it.
March 11, 2023
France has an open border with Italy, where African migrants arrive in huge numbers following NATO’s trashing of Libya, which offered employment to many subsaharan Africans. It no longer does. Gaddafi said what the consequence of overthrowing him would be. France played a major role in bombing Libya in 2011, as we did, but it has been offloading the migrants that it gets as a result onto us. Once again, we’re the losers.
March 11, 2023
So I asked ChatGPT your question. I have cut and paste exactly what the reply was.
Which laws would a person break if they ran an illegal ferry service from France to England ?
Running an illegal ferry service from France to England would likely violate several laws, including:
Immigration laws: The operator of an illegal ferry service may be transporting individuals without proper documentation or visas, which would violate immigration laws.
Customs laws: The operator may also be transporting goods without proper documentation or clearance, which would violate customs laws.
Maritime laws: The operation of a ferry service requires adherence to a range of maritime regulations and safety standards, which the operator may not be following.
Business licensing laws: The operator may not have obtained the necessary permits and licenses required to operate a ferry service.
Environmental laws: The operation of a ferry service may also pose a risk to the environment, which could violate environmental laws.
Criminal laws: Depending on the circumstances, the operator may also face charges related to smuggling, human trafficking, or other criminal activities.
It is important to note that running an illegal ferry service is a serious offense that can result in significant fines and penalties, as well as criminal charges. It is strongly advised that anyone considering such an operation should consult with legal counsel and obtain the necessary permits and licenses before proceeding.
March 11, 2023
Just to add the formatting from ChatGPT was a lot better and was numbered but the formatting got lost.
You could also ask ChatGPT specific questions about each of these laws. It would tell you the specific laws that were broken.
I hope you can see how powerful this new technology is.
March 11, 2023
It seems the French dont even want to stop the Russians from stealing part of Ukraine
March 11, 2023
Frances
You have no proof of this statement and you do speak a lot of rubbish
March 11, 2023
Bill, itâs just the impression we are given eg.
13 May 2022 â French President Emmanuel Macron asked Ukraine to make concessions on its sovereignty to help Russian leader Vladimir Putin save face, Politico.eu
13 May 2022 â French President Emmanuel Macron asked Ukraine to give up some of its land to reach a peace deal with Russia, Anadolu
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/someone-wants-to-ukraine-slams-frances-macron-over-russia-remark-3577977
4 Jun 2022 â Ukraine’s foreign minister has hit out at French President Emmanuel Macron after he said it was vital that Russia was not humiliated. BBC
4 Dec 2022 â French President Emmanuel Macron’s suggestion the West should consider Russia’s need for security guarantees if Moscow agrees to talks CNBC
March 12, 2023
A-tracy, Macron was talking about the situation when the war ends, and said that Russia should not be humiliated, because it would then seek revenge for failing to achieve its goals in invading Ukraine. He reportedly spoke of ‘diplomatic concessions’, not necessarily territorial ones. It was Zelensky who publicly interpreted Macron’s statement as saying Ukraine should concede territory. But if you believe that man, you’ll believe anything.
March 12, 2023
Philip, I wish we werenât involved at all. Sorry I know thats not popular. What about Macron saying the Ukraine should make some concessions on land to end the war? Bill asked for proof Macron wanted that the top two articles provide that.
March 11, 2023
“Why pay the French……”
The short answer, Because politicians think the answer to everything is to spend more and more money.
Why should the French bother when they are getting rid of an immigrant problem they have, which they believe is caused by the pull factor of the UK.
Immigrants enter their Country to try and get to the UK, where all sorts of benefits and living conditions are better than many other Countries in the EU and elsewhere, again because we spend more money on those people compared to other Countries,
No 5 star hotels with pocket money, heat, comfortable beds, food, and healthcare thrown in by any others.
Then when inevitably they do eventually get accepted and approved because of the way the system works, or rather does not work) and after many expensive years to the taxpayer, they can then claim another lot of benefits, housing, education, healthcare, medicines, food banks, even if or when they do eventually get a job, indeed everything from an expensive and broken system, for absolutely no previous contribution at all.
The solution is simple, No paperwork no entry, and an immediate return (within 24 hours) to a genuine refugee camp (suggest Lebanon) which we help fund, where they then have the opportunity to join an orderly queue to fill in the correct paperwork.
March 11, 2023
“which they believe is caused by the pull factor of the UK.2
Which they know is caused by the pull factor of the UK.
March 11, 2023
Berkshire Alan
This is such load of absolute rubbish it is against all international treaties and not realizable so why propose it
March 12, 2023
Bill
Tell me which other Country in the World would let, or help people arrive and stay without any paperwork of any sort, or any advance knowledge of knowing who they are, let alone house and feed them for free for months, sometimes years.
Suggest you try it ,and see how you get on !
March 11, 2023
Spot on Alan.
March 12, 2023
Alan, there is no âcorrect paperworkâ. The reason why these poor people are crossing the Channel in boats is because the Conservative government has closed down all – ALL- safe and legal routes for Africans and Asians wanting to apply for refuge in the UK.
March 11, 2023
Sir John, would you kindly send a copy of that list to Gary Lineker.
March 11, 2023
Of course the naive Leftâs argument to everything JR so rightly says isâŠ
âOK provide safe routes/transport.
Let them all come.â
More likeâŠLet them come and find out what the plan is.
Plantations and chain gangs without a doubt.
It was always saidâŠ.the End GameâŠcompliant serfs.
March 11, 2023
Who has EVER actually cared what the people of Europe want?
What is happening however is exactly what they have consistently voted for.
They have always believed the lies.
March 11, 2023
It’s all becoming a bit of a joke. The UK is now officially a shithole
March 11, 2023
I have to agree with you Dom. It’s all out of control.
March 11, 2023
Treaty on European Union:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A02016M%2FTXT-20200301
From the Preamble:
“DRAWING INSPIRATION from the cultural, religious and humanist inheritance of Europe, from which
have developed the universal values of the inviolable and inalienable rights of the human person,
freedom, democracy, equality and the rule of law”
From Article 2:
“The Union is founded on the values of respect for … the rule of law … “
March 11, 2023
Sir John, it is fair to say the French have a problem too and are happy to see the refugees, asylum seekers, economic migrants, and criminals leave their country by any means available. The French and UK are in NATO and no reason why a joint Naval force could not operate to cover both sides of the Channel and enforce both French and UK action against criminal activity. Even INTERPOL could get involved. If there was a Political will. But thats the problem there is not as it does not suit the French and Perhaps in there eyes for good reason. Now if the the people arriving in small boats meet the same conditions as they had left in French that might to a bit of a deterrent.
But when a well know football commentator likens the UK Government to that of the Hitler Government in Nazi Germany you have your answer to why nothing is done, even when with give the French ÂŁ millions, and our PM and the French President pat each other on the back before starting talks.
March 11, 2023
Sir John, these are criminals, they donât fit your law abiding Home Counties mind.
With modern surveillance methods and the necessary boots on the ground, I do not understand why 100% of these people are not apprehended as they move towards the beach.
As for the French, itâs a large country and this is a localised problem in a Nord Pas de Calais area not fit for much else.
My big picture problem is Sunak once again showing how weak he is.
March 11, 2023
Off topic, JR, you and others may wish to glance at this in the Irish Times today:
https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2023/03/11/windsor-framework-is-old-wine-in-a-new-bottle/
“Windsor Framework is old wine in a new bottle”
“Contrary to British claims, there was no renegotiation of the Northern Ireland protocol”
Generally you are more likely to find the truth about any EU development in the Irish press; the Irish Times is usually a more reliable source than The Times in London. Why? Because they feel less need to hide the truth.
March 11, 2023
The traffickers are a pressure release valve for France and the rest of the EU. All EU members would otherwise be stuck with more unwanted dependants swelling and swirling within their collective single border.
The whole EU knows that the UK supports people generously, so are relieved by the services the traffickers provide.
Our payments to France to keep the business going are a consequence of being dumped on with a daft PM. A sensible person would take efficient action, but a bozo who thinks wasting our money to go through worthless motions as the only way damages our nation.
March 11, 2023
All basically started by Merkel without EU discussion / agreement.
March 11, 2023
The French can see that Sunak and his friends over here are weakling posturing fools and Macron is naturally taking advantage, just as he and the EU did over Northern Ireland. Sunak and his elite friends and government cannot recognise it, they live in an imaginary world imagining a moral strength. Other nations do the same as the French as do foreign individuals and we lose.
The decline of the UK will continue unless there is a total change. We need to start over again, forget our past and build anew. This does require a complete removal of the top layer of leadership.
And you Sir John are much the same, you stick to the party no matter how much it and its leaders embarrass and destroy us. You imagine they will listen to you and change completely, but they don’t. They may promise you but…….
March 11, 2023
A reality check says that the French don’t mind
1. An economic drain leaving France
2. UK giving them money for nothing
Yet again Sunak uses the wrong sledgehammer to crack a nut.
1. You don’t improve the economy by destroying the incentive to work with high taxes
2. You don’t improve the boat people situation by using those taxes to prop up their departure point
Use the money to man our own borders properly and send transgressors back. It’s quite simple.
March 11, 2023
You should tell Rishi that when you shake hands with a french politician you count your fingers afterwards.
If this detention camp is to house a UK vetting facility for UK assylum, failure at which, joint french/english escorted departure to Rwanda and other distant hosts will result, it might work. It is after all in both countries interests to put an end this human trafficking. I am sure the citizens of Calais are just as unhappy as the citizens of the UK.
One way to end it would be a joint MI5/MI6/DGS operation to erradicate the supply of rubber boats and engines. I would not have thought it too challenging. No boats/engines, no trips across the Channel/La Manche. Sell legitimate users boats and engines like you sell hand guns, end of problem.
March 11, 2023
Hello Sir John,
The French don’t give a damn about it. They will talk the talk to keep UK money flowing, but the last thing they want is to stop the boats. It gets rid of the people France does not want and saves France all the associated costs.
I do not understand why our PM & MPs don’t keep saying that the problem can only be solved if France takes illegal immigrants back. That would tell the truth, and may even embarrass Macron over time, so eventually, they may take at least some people back.
March 11, 2023
So ferry, ‘cross the channel
to the land that migrants love
and here they’ll stay.
Yes here they’ll stay.
March 11, 2023
+many
March 11, 2023
a tribute to Gerry & the Pacemakers?
March 11, 2023
More of a factual refrain Mickey.
March 11, 2023
Well kind of..
Itâs a very clever parody!
That film of G + Pacemakers on a Mersey ferry in a free, beautiful and (seemingly) prosperous country.
Our country!
March 11, 2023
The answer is biometric ID cards for everyone. And severe fines for anyone employing anyone who does not have one. Including for people casually employing someone to cut their grass or trim a tree. No ID, no work. ÂŁ10k fine for anyone who employs casual labour.
Iâve never understood what people have against being able to prove your identity. I wouldnât want anyone stealing mine. You have a National Insurance number, an NHS number, a HMRC number, a birth certificate, a driving licence, a passport – whatâs wrong with having a biometric, photographic ID?
Reply Not so. Some of these migrants get rid off ID to claim asylum and are allowed under international law to do so
March 11, 2023
MW, the problem is that the biometric ID card will be (or is the stepping-stone to) a card or app that links to your bank account/credit cards and shows your location.
As those who donated to the Truckers’ protest in Canada discovered, a democratic government was prepared to close their bank accounts without notice because it disapproved of their actions. A smart ID card would make this easy. Likewise it would help a government (as in China) to run a “social credit” system, where it decided who can travel around the country etc.
Digital ID is promoted as convenient, but it’s also a means of control.
March 11, 2023
Wanderer +1
March 11, 2023
FT, 08/03/2023 âBritain plans looser foreign worker rules to plug labour gapâ.
March 11, 2023
Oh, Britain does, does it, Hefner? But who is meant by ‘Britain’? Reading the FT article, it turns out to be the government’s ‘migration advisory committee’. And who are they? Professor Brian Bell (Chair), Professor Dina Kiwan, Professor Sergi Pardos-Prado, Madeleine Sumption, Professor Jo Swaffield, and Della McVay (ex-officio member, Home Office). Bell is at Kingâs College London and has previously worked at both the IMF and the Bank of England. Kiwan’s profile says she researches ‘sociological and politico-philosophical examinations of inclusive citizenship through the lens of education policy, naturalisation policy and migration policy, in particular in the context of pluralist / multicultural societies’, Pardos-Prado’s profile says he analyses ‘patterns of xenophobia and racism’. Madeleine Sumption is a member of the Migration Observatory (not to be confused with Migration Watch), and co-author of an article critical of immigration points systems. Swaffield publishes research papers on ‘climate’. How representative of ‘Britain’ is this group of people, I find myself wondering? Still, perhaps we can be thankful Gary Lineker isn’t a member.
March 11, 2023
It might be put to a vote, he’d walk straight in.
March 11, 2023
They need to cut benefits for people able to work. Benefits under 25 years of age should be cut.
March 11, 2023
âWhy pay the French to enforce their laws?â – Stupidity comes to mind.
This crowd that calls themselves a UK Conservative Government, have been indoctrinated with the Boris Johnson destroy the UK by spend, spend, spend ideology , because they can always tax the âplebsâ more. As disciples of this BJ religion they seem to believe that them managing the UK for the UK means by spending, they then get let of all other duties and responsibilities.
March 11, 2023
If the PM is stupid enough to offer half a billion pounds for nothing, why would the French refuse?
We really should stop PMs going abroad – it was the same with Boris, every time they go they come back with another big payout and what do we get in return? We know what Rishi got, a nice hug from Little Napoleon and declarations of undying love. A load of old cobblers. Funny they can’t afford to pay nurses what they are due but can find hundreds of millions for posing with foreign heads of governments. It’s a farce and the sooner this lot are booted out the better. I don’t really care much anymore who comes in to replace them – nothing could be much worse than the liabilities we have now as a government.
March 11, 2023
Well Sir John we all know what thought did.
Our expectations count for nothing with Macron. We were and still are his cash cow to enable him to look better than he really is in his own back yard.
March 11, 2023
Looks like somebody from the immigration or customs bent your ear ’cause I don’t think you could have thought up these frivolous points all by yourself – which makes a lot of what you say today mostly nonsense. UK border rules and EU border rules are not going to stop this problem – these migrants are coming from places where laws mean nothing.
What is needed us a ring fence right around Europe and a change in policy regarding human rights first thought up in a different era. There are 220 million people in Nigeria alone and even if the smallest percentage got it into their heads to move north for a better life? well you can see we would be swamped. That figure alone should serve to concentrate minds.
There is no stopping this migration problem now without drastic action on z European wide basis now that it’s all stirred up in the Mindle East and North Africa and largely by ourselves with our various military operations overthrowing dictatorships etc but now we have to deal with it.
March 11, 2023
Right but the U.K. social entitlement rules and the way in which deportation laws are currently (not) operated by the legal system makes the U.K. a magnet for illegal migrants. So thereâs a cost to France of the U.K. having the rules and entitlements we do, as illegal migrants flock to the north of France knowing thereâs a free lunch (+ much more) a short, but expensive hop away. It seems reasonable therefore – in the absence of the U.K. changing these rules and entitlements – for the attempted solution to be a joint one.
March 11, 2023
Letâs face reality, France wants rid of their migrants. They could stop the trade overnight by accepting returns from the UK. They choose not to and milk an abhorrent trade for financial gain. Sunak is a fool if he thinks giving the French our money will solve anything.
Intercepting them mid-channel and taking them back to France is the only answer. It worked for Australia and it would work for the UK. The maritime regulation is to take those in danger to a safe port not to ferry them to the UK for us to support. I have no faith in this government to stop the migrants.
March 11, 2023
Stop lifting them mid channel. To the invaders they are only at risk whilst in French waters. Once in ours the on line taxi service rank takes over.
Legally stop RNLI boats from aiding and abetting a criminal organisations.
Invaders might not like the odds if they know they are going to have to go the full distance.
Do a block return en masse of 20 thousand of last years invaders, it will have a far greater effect as the gangs are going to not be able to expound all the advantages for coming here. Spend your money for a one way trip straight back. Time to make push go to shove.
March 11, 2023
If we return the illegal immigrant boat people back to France the same day, the âtraffickersâ business model would collapse âŠ.itâs a cost effective, straightforward, simple strategy, that hasnât even been tried âŠ.WHY
And why did both leaders ignore the question of âreturnsâ when asked yesterday
March 11, 2023
The business model won’t collapse, they will just try another time. The illegal migrants need to be taken out of the equation. Return them to their home countries and bill the embassies for the cost.
March 11, 2023
Dave Andrew’s
+ many. Very good points Dave
March 11, 2023
Why would you buy passage on a small boat knowing that youâd be returned that same day, back to where you started
March 12, 2023
How do you return them to France? France will not take them. Do please be realistic
March 12, 2023
By aeroplane we return them to a French airport
By ferry we return them to a French port
By small boat we should tow them back to French territorial water or if in difficulty to a French harbour
March 11, 2023
Setting up an asylum claim bureau in France would be a good idea. It won’t stop the boats, because the bureau won’t be able to cope with the demand, even without the drag of civil service general incompetence. Plus, a large proportion of those attempting access to the UK wouldn’t have a valid claim. However, it would then give grounds to reject asylum claims from people who don’t warrant it.
Those coming in the boats can then be detained as criminals, preferably returned to their home country, or put in a Scottish Island refugee camp if there is nowhere for them to go back to and no one else will have them. Mind you, owing to our commitment to net zero we wouldn’t be able to provide heating. Still, the bairns of old coped with it.
Those who qualify for asylum can be linked to a charity to provide financial support and serve as their sponsor. There appears to be plenty of sympathy in the human rights organisations, so no need for taxpayer support.
March 11, 2023
Oh Danegeld always works – we see it with the French and the repeated agreements and payments to âstop the boatsâ.
Once they know a âbusinessâ pays, then it expands. Macron knows that the British, too timid to rely on international law and accept NO Asylum seekers from the EU, as they are deemed a safe country, will just keep paying.
He just keeps doing nothing and promising much.
Working beautifully.
The Government has no intention of âstoppingâ illegal immigration.
March 11, 2023
Why indeed! – I suppose the French regard Sunak as an easy, soft touch who will pay anything to claim he’s solved the problem (even if he has not) …
March 11, 2023
Agreed, so why is the UK going to give the French ÂŁ500,000,000? That is the equivalent of the annual tax on 200,000 British middle income taxpayers for one year who will be working essentially for the French. OK so it’s spread over three years, that’s alright then. I wonder what Jeremy Hunt will have to further cut from his budget to pay for it. Good job the French are our friends.
March 11, 2023
So in December 2022 we had 452 hotels in the UK filled with migrants but now, a couple of days back the Freedom of Information Request comes back just to to say – just get lost you voters and tax payers – we just will not tell you.
So much for Freedom of Information requests and any real democracy. Not likely to go down well.
March 11, 2023
Sunaks KPI â Iâll stop some of the small boats
Glens KPI â Iâll return every illegal immigrant that same day back to France, whether they travel by small boat, large boat, hidden in private car, hidden in lorries or by aeroplane âŠno visa no entrance
March 11, 2023
Another French law: against putting to sea in an unseaworthy vessel, regardless of whether it has passengers in it.
March 11, 2023
So why doesnât the UK take France to the European court for all their Health & Safety, breaches of International agreements on border control and the list Sir John highlighted. I bet the EU donât count all of this extra illegal GDP France receives from boat making to illegal traffickers and tax it and fine them as they would the UK, just think of the billions for drugs and prostitution they taxed the UK for.
This is all a game to them.
March 11, 2023
You ask “Do the people of France want these unhappy camps?” and the answer is presumably “no”, rather they want them emptied of bogus asylum seekers just as fast as the cross-channel dinghy service can cope with that.
Paying the French to enforce their own laws might be ridiculous but it might occasionally do a little more good than completing HS2 and is considerably less expensive.
Worse happened in the Sunak-Macron encounter. Apparently our QE 2 aircraft carrier will now sail around the Indo-Pacific in coordination with the French carrier, both providing good targets for anyone with malicious intent and a Rocket Propelled Grenade or worse but also establishing a European presence. How is that for pure folly?
March 11, 2023
The French are complicit in this scheme known as ‘Get to England and live in clover’.
Rather than giving the French even more money for not doing what they should be doing, we should be imposing sanctions on France to make them responsible.
March 11, 2023
++100
Apparently France was offered nearly 1000 ICU NHS beds during our âlockdownâ.
What was that all about?
March 12, 2023
”scheme known as âGet to England and live in cloverâ”
The land of the free, everything is free !
March 11, 2023
Still no answer to the Tim Loughton question.
March 11, 2023
Which question was this?
So I searched and found this one (which I assume was not the one). The Gov. reply does show that what unscientific idiots/morons or liars we have in parliament, the civil service and government. They talk about “Realising the Full Potential of Zero Emission Powered Light Vehiclesâ. They clearly think “zero emission” light vehicles actually exist! They are just some emissions but elsewhere vehicles sometimes even more emissions.
Motorcycles: Electric Vehicles
To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, what steps his Department is taking to encourage the take-up of electric motorbikes.
Their reply:-
Asked 23 February 2023
The Government offers financial support to consumers via the Plug-in Motorcycle Grant,which helps bridge the price gap between the cost of zero emission and internal combustion engine vehicles. The grant pays for 35% of the purchase price for selected models, up to a maximum of ÂŁ500 for motorcycles and ÂŁ150 for mopeds.
The Government continues to work with the UK industry to grow the motorcycle sector and ensure it has a prosperous future in the UK. In February 2022, the Motorcycle Industry Association and Zemo Partnership published a government-commissioned action plan, âRealising the Full Potential of Zero Emission Powered Light Vehiclesâ, to support the take-up of zero emission L-category vehicles. The Government has also made up to ÂŁ350,000 of funding available to grow the zero-emission motorcycle supply chain in the UK.
March 11, 2023
The one he asked relating to safe and legal routes of the Home Secretary at the Home Affairs Select Committee back in November.
March 11, 2023
My local police force have purchased a few electric motorcycles âŠtheyâre double the cost of an ICE motorcycle, canât go as fast or far as an ICE motorcycle and theyâve had to buy double the normal amount as one will always be on recharge âŠ.net-zero is going to cost, my council tax is increasing to fund this experiment
March 11, 2023
It was a stupid question which presupposes the whole world has a right to come here.
March 11, 2023
It wasn’t just a stupid question: it was malicious, designed to embarrass and undermine the Home Secretary, and asked by a member of her own party.
March 11, 2023
Utter rubbish.
March 11, 2023
The French did not co-operate with the UK because of Brexit. There was little to show that they had done anything of consequence to stop the boats despite the funds we supplied them with to do so . Photos of their coastguard / Police standing by while the boats were launched were evidence enough ; getting rid of their nuisance and passing the problem on to us was their agenda . I have grave doubts that the new deal that has been made will result in preventing illegal migration to our shores so we must be tough and have the necessary flights ready .
As a rugby fan I couldn’t care less about the Match of the Day !.
March 11, 2023
THEY ARE TAKING US FOR THE FOOLS OUR GOVERNMENT IS WE CAN PAY THE FRENCH HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF POUNDS WHEN WE CAN’T GIVE OUR HARDWORKING NURSES A DECENT PAY RISE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING JOHN
AND THE REST OF OUR MP’S DOIN TO STOP THE GOVERNMENT GIVING OUR MONEY AWAY I PRESUME WE WILL
NOT SEE ANY MORE BOATS LAND ON OUR SHORES IF ONE BOAT DOES LAND ON OUR SHORE WE WHICH THEY WILL ONCE WE WILL BE WASTING OUR MONEY
WE ARE THE JOKERS OF THE WORLD
March 11, 2023
O/T: 23/02/2022 âParliament renovation could take 76 years and cost ÂŁ22bnâ, says a report if the Palace is not emptied from its present occupants. If it were, it might only cost ÂŁ7bn to ÂŁ13bn and only take 12 to 20 years.
Where is the anger about this? Nowhere because this is not something that MPs would talk about.
March 11, 2023
surely cheaper to move out, knock it down, rebuild and move back a lot fewer than catering for 650 and +- 1000 Lords?
March 11, 2023
The nurses got a ÂŁ1400 boost in October backdated to April giving the lower grades a 10% increase?
March 11, 2023
Almost impossible to see an NHS dentist or a GP in many areas and many cannot even afford to keep warm. But if you arrive by RIB in Kent & then it is all free it seems. Paid for by vastly high tax levels.
March 11, 2023
It is part of the refusal by this government to adopt fully the expressed democratic wish of the British people to leave the European Union. BRINO is alive an well. I have my own views on why the majority of illegal immigrants
are predominantly young males. The sycophancy of Rishi Sunak towards Emmanuel Macron was barely watchable.
So the face of MOTD has been suspended. Impartiality has been described as “craven cowardice”. What a disgrace. The Director-General should hold his nerve and sack all those presumably contracted to provide a service. We can do without the commentators and so-called pundits for the time being until others are available.
March 11, 2023
Be reasonable, Sir John might have a few thousand readers of his daily prose, Lineker has 8.7 million Twitter readers. That puts the relative importance of each in perspective, doesnât it?
Reply I had 6 million readers for my most read tweet
March 11, 2023
Amazing isn’t it, Gary has 8.7 m readers(?) well I assume they can read, but I do wonder about what goes on in the brain. At least with Sir John’s ( I have never read any) I should assume a thought provoking point being made?
March 11, 2023
Berkshire Alan
This is such load of absolute rubbish it is against all international treaties and not realizable so why propose it
March 11, 2023
Sir J R
That comment to Hefner just tells us more about you than any of your acti
March 11, 2023
Matt le Tissier would make a fine presenter or pundit on MotD.
But since he has conservative views and opposed the Government’s economy-wrecking/life destroying Covid Restrictions, he doesn’t meet the BBC’s criteria.
March 11, 2023
It seems to me that the illegal boat migrants are useful on two counts.
They are an excuse for cooperation and âalignmentâ as a step towards the UK rejoining the EU.
They will also be used to justify the introduction of Digital ID across Europe including the UK.
March 11, 2023
RichardP, good point. I saw the UK did a deal with Urkraine, on getting their advice on how to implement digital ID. Apparently it has been up and running in Ukraine for some time, and has proven “useful” when needing to ID displaced people. Very useful, I’m sure.
I think the link was in today’s Daily Sceptic.
March 11, 2023
It is also true there is nothing to stop the UK enforcing those laws. It really isn’t difficult. These people are coming from a safe country so they are afforded no protection by the UN convention on Refugees.
The truth is the Government doesn’t have the backbone.
March 11, 2023
Peter: 100% !!!
March 11, 2023
“intelligence services”, they are!
Not just French/UK, because the gangs base themselves all over EU/UK, and they have networks over N Africa/RU/Pakistan…, and the UK does not employ enough people to purse them into places like Syria/Albanian/Africa/Pakistan, where ever! Our Intelligence Officers are treated the same way, they can’t investigate much overseas! Their organisation is Elitist (Structured or narrowly controlled) to be creative, and access to the relevant skills/support! UK operations in Syria were based on USA/Ca/F Intelligence, sharing agreements.
The French have been pushing for an EU based organisation!
So, you will need to support the development of a UK focus organisation, servicing just the UK needs, or be prepared to be bounced into a EU base system?
That’s the way I see it, but there has been having these problems for years. Lazy Politicians!
BR
RDM.
March 11, 2023
Thatâs a very fair point. However, the illegals are here and there is little we can do. To bring them into legitimate tax-paying employment why not offer an amnesty?
March 11, 2023
Why not an amnesty? Because we don’t want any more, Roger.
March 11, 2023
Roger, you say the illegals ‘are here and there is little we can do’. Fascinating to see you using Angela Merkel’s words from 2015 in pretty close English translation. This was when Merkel open the floodgates to migrants coming into Germany. The backlash this then caused split her own party, and now they’re out of power. A lesson for the future?
March 11, 2023
Rudyard Kipling understood the folly in his poem about Dane-geld.
His conclusion was…
“We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
No matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!”
March 11, 2023
+1
March 11, 2023
This blog is quite right. Anyhow what incentive has France to actually stop the boat problem if while it continues we are paying for (useless) employment to alleviate their unemployment problem in their economically poor area around Calais? Indeed there is no chance of France solving this problem for us as long as most illegals try again to get to Britain a few days later if they happen to be stopped by the French on any occasion until they eventually get here. So the French are ultimately preventing almost nobody from travelling to Britain for our money. The deterrence needs to be on our side of the English Channel rather than paying the French who won’t even accept those they themselves fail to prevent leaving France back into France!
March 11, 2023
Well done Gary – you have managed to shut down quIte a bit of BBC without trying, I’m a new fan. Keep up the good work!
March 11, 2023
I don’t watch football but I do watch tennis. The commentary is intrusive to the point of being infuriating. So I hope people enjoy the match tonight uninterrupted.
March 11, 2023
Why would the perfidious French do other?
Let the criminals shift the problem off their shores far enough out for the British Border Force and RNLI to ‘rescue’ them and bring them to the land of milk and honey with hotel accomodation and British tax payers funding for lawyers to fight their case to the top. Incidentally, why are my taxes going to fund lawyers to assist criminals into this country?
March 11, 2023
A priority should be to turn existing illegal migrants out of the nice hotels in which they have been placed and put them instead into army other-ranks accommodation, replacing them in hotels with our armed forces personnel.
Broadcast that anyone reaching the UK shores without ID documents will be returned to any country that they appear to originate from.
Broadcast that what they have been told about the generous benefits freely given to migrants is no longer applicable.
The ÂŁ500 million that Tiny Sunak has offered Mini Macron to do bugger all would have made a start towards bringing army accommodation up to the standards that most of us would deem acceptable.
The ÂŁ71 billion latest guesstimate of the price of an HS2 rail line for which there was never a credible business case could and should have been spent on almost anything else…..upgrade of the National Grid, upgrade of the east west rail system in the North, levelling up of the North, whatever. Instead, we have a project that is no more than a vanity nonsense about which the Transport Minister is talking rubbish.
March 11, 2023
It appears that France and indeed the U.K. government are happy for this to continue. They could have done something to stop it before now, yet they havenât. These camps should be broken up as illegal encampments, yet they seem to be openly encouraged. Why arenât the military in there finding and stopping the illegal traffickers?
March 11, 2023
They nead to fill the Ponzi Housing Scheme and keep prices up somehow.
March 11, 2023
The end of yet another depressing day knowing that tomorrow will get no better.
March 12, 2023
Under this labour government
March 12, 2023
John Redwood makes the case for much deeper and searching investigations into the gangs that operate the launching of migrant boats from French beaches. The stupidity of Shengen allows any immigrant that enters the EU illegally on the Mediterranean coastline to end up on Pas de Calais and Belgium shores. They cannot stay in France because they will need an identity card or passport to remain. they will have to pay for medical services.
Once in the UK, they can disappear from their taxpayer funded hotels. The NHS is an international health service free to all comers and the undercover work market will provide jobs paid in cash without the relevant income tax
The best we can hope based on the latest agreements with President Macron is that our National Crime Agency can play an investagative role with French police and find the storage areas for the boats and trace their routes and fabrication.
March 13, 2023
Tories have just discovered that borders have two sides and one side they have no control of.