There was a strong divide in the Commons yesterday, with much better attendance than usual for the debate on the small boats bill. Labour, the SNP and Lib Dems were angry about the idea that people arriving on illegal boats should be asked to leave and will lose their right to apply for asylum here in the UK. They thought this would be against Human Rights law and were on the side of the people paying large fares to gain illegal entry.
Many Conservatives were only concerned about whether this Bill will be strong enough to act as a clear deterrent to people not to spend their money on dangerous crossings, lining the pockets of people traffickers. More concern was expressed about the risk to lives and less about the legal issues. There were questions about whether this Bill would be proof against endless appeals and legal claims against any rejection of an asylum application. The Home Secretary pointed out that many of those coming by illegal means come from safe countries. She told us that many Albanians have now been required to return to their home.
There was argument over the adequacy of existing safe routes. The Opposition spoke as if there were few or no such routes, and as if the UK did not take enough people in need. The government pointed to the Afghan, Syrian, Ukrainian and Hong Kong schemes which are much used. It also reminded the House that there are schemes for people from any qualifying country around the world, with the family reunion route, the Community support route and the general UNHCR scheme. The UK has found homes for a large number of Ukrainians and Hong Kong citizens in recent months.
There was an unwillingness by the Opposition to accept the idea that the country should set a maximum for the numbers of asylum seekers we can take in any given year, given the need to provide good homes, schools, health care and the rest for new arrivals. Most did agree that migrants occupying more and more hotels at taxpayer expense was not a good model, though there was less agreement over how much such emergency accommodation was needed and to what standard. This is going to be a major divide in Parliament over the next few weeks, and will pose a challenge to the Lords.
March 14, 2023
There needs to be a change in the law to enable the Government to deem the person driving one of these boats to be the Captain of the Vessel and therefore responsible in national and maritime law for the safety of the passengers and seaworthiness of the craft. The the law needs to be enforced by arresting the persons at the helm (outboard motor) and charging them appropriately. They would also be liable under the Offences against The Person Act by endangering the lives of others.
This is so simple I cannot imagine why it has not been done. The boats would quickly stop coming if one or two ‘skippers’ were then imprisoned and fined large sums.
No drivers = no boats.
March 14, 2023
Peter
I think you will find the illegals crew themselves having been given very rudimentary instructions, there is no skipper.
March 14, 2023
Indeed & they all choose to get on the boat in perfectly safe France and nearly all fund the boat, fuel… It is not all evil vile traffickers and innocent victims – as many on the left like to pretend.
March 14, 2023
++many
Any legal measures like that would help no endâŠespecially if they were enforced.
Unfortunately there are other âbodiesâ totally infiltrated by woke that actually work off their own bat, ignoring the law. With the help of govt. they have just about taken over everything.
Try buying a non charity Christmas cardâŠor a Christian one for that matter.
March 14, 2023
Really? Do you know how to run a search on the internet? eden.co.uk has more Christian Christmas cards that you can shake a stick at.
March 14, 2023
@hefner; Fine for you to suggest but what of the many, for whatever reason, who are either computer illiterate or without ready access to online shopping, should people not have a reasonable expectation of finding *Christian* themed Christmas cards on the ‘High Street’ at -err- Christmas?!
March 14, 2023
There were some Christian ones in WHSmith (Broad St./Friar St.) in Reading last December.
March 14, 2023
Shouldnât have to ârun a searchâ. This is a Christian country!
And Christian Christmas cards should not be involved with charities.
If one looks into it âruns a searchâ most of them are!
March 14, 2023
+1
March 22, 2023
So are you against Christian charities? Do you prefer the profits on the sale of Christian Christmas cards to go to WHSmith, McCallâs, Martinâs or other newsagents?
March 14, 2023
We do not really lack laws the government lacks the will to act. Very clearly this government had no intention of action. The new law (followed by legal actions) is just another delaying tactic to try to show the Tories are more anti-migrant than Labour – but in reality they are not much more. A delaying tactic rather like the long grass Covid Inquiry that still has not started.
“Many Conservatives were only concerned about whether this bill will be strong enough to act as a clear deterrent to people not to spend their money on dangerous crossings, lining the pockets of people traffickers”
In this they are surely right we have to leave the ECHR and Rishi & Hunt have no intention of doing this. It seem they have given up on the next election already.
March 14, 2023
English law has the commendable tradition of not inventing evidence to support a prejudged outcome to a case to enable a given sanction against the accused.
You’d happily throw that away along with everything else that was ever any good about the country.
I suppose that you’d claim (can’t stifle a guffaw) to be a patriot too?
March 14, 2023
Observing who is driving the people-smugglers’ boat, and using that in court is not ‘inventing evidence’, NLH.
March 18, 2023
Well Raab has the unions and opposition attempting to do just as you accuse NLH.
March 14, 2023
More talk….
March 14, 2023
When they see a boat they will just put a child at the helm. That is unworkable. If you go down that route you just make everyone of the craft jointly liable and charge them all. But then they just go to prison at our expense.
March 14, 2023
But seeing this most would surely stop coming?
March 14, 2023
The law only works for people who have something to lose. That’s you and me, not illegal immigrants.
March 14, 2023
Peter Gardner
Exactly. Use the laws that are in place.
If one person is not deemed to be the helmsman then all the occupants are liable. As long as they are charged under existing laws and legislation with no right to legal aid the lawyers will have to think twice about fighting their cause.
March 14, 2023
Good morning.
Like all the many, many other laws over illegal immigration and the numerous schemes like Rwanda where, for every asylum seeker we give them, they give us one back, this will not work. And I will tell you why.
This is whole business is driven by the need. The need for a better life. Those arriving here have no future in their own countries. They have no education, no prospects and no future. So their only hope is to get to the UK where they know they will get everything. This is why they do not want to stay in France because the French will not give them as much as we do.
Until you reduce the pull factors this whole business will not stop. They will keep coming and, due to the provisions inside the bill all they have to do is claim they are minors and we cannot deport them. The whole thing is a farce.
Go back to my post of a few days ago on this subject. THIS IS WHAT YOU NEED TO DO !!. DO IT THEY WILL STOP COMING !!!!
March 14, 2023
They don’t just have to claim they are minors. In the unlikely event the Bill is passed the majority left-wing Commons and the unaccountable, Remainer and predominantly left-wing House of Frauds, it already gives the people traffickers the next scam to get around the law: ship over teenage boys (in their own countries they’re classed and treated as men).
They will be granted asylum and will act as “grappling hook kids” for their families who will be legally shipped over soon after. The Bill is encouraging the trafficking of minors.
March 14, 2023
Donna
What constantly amazes me is that us ordinary people out here in the real World can see all of the holes in all of these complicated schemes, but the so called band of intelligent lawyers with whom the Government consults at huge expense, seem to fail to understand, of are even aware of them.
Perhaps they should employ a poacher for gamekeeper type person/lawyer, from the band of tax paid legal aid lawyers, to look at all of these proposals and make comment when they are being drawn up, before it even gets to parliament for a vote.
March 14, 2023
And two other pull factors:
Everyone in Albanian villages is coming over. So do not be left out! It is flavour of the month!
You can work really hard and earn ÂŁ40,000 which will set you up, back home for life. Or you can settle, bring Grannie and your wives over too.
March 14, 2023
Look upon it as an opportunity. Albania has the same mediteranean climate as Corfu and the Ionian islands, real food, cheap property and a depleted population. Ideal for your summer retreat. There is a plus side to most situations.
March 14, 2023
I like that âZenâ attitude
March 14, 2023
‘They have no education, no prospects and no future’
Great! We stand to support them for their lifetime.
March 14, 2023
Mark B
Spot on as usual.
All invaders under 35 with no identity papers will be conscripted into the army for a period of five years. They will be paid and fed and housed and given training.
Is that not what they have come for?
If they perform and have a good conduct record and served this country well, then consideration will be given to family members. As the vast majority come here to escape conflict so they tell the immigration operatives they are hardly going to come here to be signed up.
March 14, 2023
Serve their time in Falklands, N.Scotland or maybe Germany – you never know they may go AWOL!
March 14, 2023
Sir John, I commented on this yesterday. You didn’t want to include a link to my substack blog explaining why this new Bill won’t work, but the fact is that it still keeps some of the Human Rights Act powers unchanged and so will be sabotaged by the courts.
As for offering new legal routes, the point that no Tory MP ever makes is that the UK is GROSSLY overcrowded. For France to reach our level of population density they would need to take in 80 MILLION refugees. That is how insane the demands for more refugees to be allowed into the UK are!
March 14, 2023
âgiven the need to provide good homes, schools, health care and the rest for new arrivalsâ
Wouldnât it be nice if the British people could have these things?
March 14, 2023
Very good point Christine.
+1
March 14, 2023
If you stop giving legal aid to those arriving the appeals will stop overnight.
The government has allowed this to become a million billion pound industry
March 14, 2023
Agreed. The Australians seem to be able to deport illegals without offering legal aid.
March 14, 2023
Watching Aussie Border Control TV show, they appear to be able to send anyone and everyone back that same day who doesn’t have a valid visa ….with no problem from the international community
March 14, 2023
Ian
Agreed, this is not about refugees at all, this is population movement by choice, a totally different scenario.
Whilst the pull factor exists who can blame them, it’s our stupid politicians, policies, laws and the benefits system which are the real problem, because the politicians make the taxpayer fund all of this nonsense, including so called ” legal aid for illegals”
Difficult to make it up, let alone understand why it is allowed to continue.
March 14, 2023
B’shire Alan, it’s perfectly easy to understand why it’s allowed to continue. Because it’s profitable.
Profitable for employers who want cheap labour. Not to mention for the hoteliers lacking customers during the winter.
The Tory government will continue to play pat-a-cake with the migrant smugglers, while the business community gets the cheap labour it want.
Why else do you think the head of the CBI, at their annual conference last November, called for a relaxation of immigration rules?
March 14, 2023
Correct. If the bleeding heart liberals support multiple legal challenges, let them pay for them. I’m sure Lineker will want to contribute ÂŁmillions.
March 14, 2023
Ian wragg
±±±++++++++++++++
Stop everything. No benefits for 18 months minimum. Only considered on proof of working, paying taxes and NI payments. Stopping the underground economy. Those found giving (untaxed Ed)employment opportunities minimum ÂŁ100k fine or seizure of assets.
March 14, 2023
Border Force can already impose large fines where businesses employ illegals. They choose not to use them. No doubt the government thinks that by stopping the illegals’ employment they will have to support them for years whilst their often bogus asylum claim is processed. The people currently in the asylum process are the tip of the iceberg, many more work in the (untaxed Ed)economy.
March 14, 2023
@turboterrier; “Only considered on proof of working, paying taxes and NI payments.”
Cough … I hope you mean those *eligible* to pay such taxes, upon reaching the personal allowance threshold?!
March 14, 2023
Your right Christine. My wife waiting now 10 months to see a specialist never mind having the operation needed . Perhaps I should put out to sea and navigate to a Dover harbour
March 14, 2023
A host countryâs duty is to provide protection for refugees. Establishing and taking them to a safe place achieves that. Many refugees and others seek permanent UK free citizenship, housing, schooling and other benefits for themselves and their extended family within their protected package. Many are paying traffickers to run a protection racket. Taxpayers bear the cost.
March 14, 2023
Maybe the government should start a scheme whereby indigenous British people can go and live in Rwanda. They can then reach their goal of population replacement. At least it will be warmer over there and no doubt top-notch infrastructure has been prepared for the freeloaders. Sign me up.
March 14, 2023
The ‘Good schools’ are already over subscribed.
March 14, 2023
We donât have to provide those things, outside of Europe no other countries provide those things âŠour politicians chooses to provide those things
In the real world you may get a tent, first aid treatment and a food parcel âŠ.no money, no schooling, no dental, no solicitors, no simcard, no hotel
March 14, 2023
After every music festival thousands of 1 or 2 person tents are left behind, send them to ex-military bases and the illegals can go there.
March 14, 2023
There is no challenge for the House of Lords. It is the lords that pose a challenge to the U.K. 600 peers on ÂŁ330 a day. Now that is a challenge for the taxpayers. How long do you think they will sit on this Bill. At what point will the government use the Parliament Act. We donât need another year of this. Not another day.
March 14, 2023
BW, psychologists in the sixties did some interesting research on groups which they found made more extreme decisions than individuals. The reasons are obvious. The House of Lords demonstrates this finding more or less whenever they sit. They pull each other along in their competitive attempts to appear enlightened.
As for “no safe legal routes”, how do they get away with this lie? Presumably because so many ignorant people take it up and peddle it too.
March 14, 2023
ÂŁ330 per day, tax free & just for popping in to use the subsidised bars and restaurants. New junior doctors take home pay more like ÂŁ80 a day (ÂŁ60 a day net if you take off the ÂŁ10k PA of interest on their student loans) buttheh cannot afford to pay Doctors enough to live on it seems.
Tom Tughenhan (theology at Bristol) on Talk Radio just now seems to think reducing inflation is a tax cut!
Well completely reversing inflation (full deflation) might help with costs of living but Sunak is aiming merely to reduce inflation to half the current huge rate ) a rate that he caused by his printing, waste, lockdown and currency debasement policies). So another tax grab but at a lower rate than last year.
Perhaps Tom thinks we should all just do loaves and fishes miracles. So is Tom a fool, or lying & thinking we are all idiots?
March 14, 2023
More migrants from poor countries equals more Labour voters and a ready made issue to be used by the filth on the Left to play the fascist, racist and Nazi card card against anyone who dares to challenge the prevailing open borders orthodoxy.
Is Labour working with Lineker and the BBC as Labour did with Gary Neville? Is Labour trying to politicise sport ie football while demonising the Tories?
If Labour form the next government I am convinced speech itself will become a criminal offence. This party are dangerous while the Tories are just pathetically carefree
March 14, 2023
How ridiculous can one be? A foreigner entering the UK legally or illegally does not get the right to vote. As obviously the distinguished contributor above does not know, voting at general elections require to be registered in a constituency and to be British, qualifying Commonwealth citizen or RoI citizen.
So very unlikely to vote Labour, Conservative or Monster Raving Loony Party.
March 14, 2023
I did a little search.
Migration Watch from âWas mass immigration a conspiracy?â by Sir Andrew Green
âResearch into voting patterns conducted for the Electoral Commission after the 2005 general election found that 80 per cent of Caribbean and African voters had voted Labour, while only about 3 per cent had voted Conservative and roughly 8 per cent for the Liberal Democrats.
The Asian vote was split about 50 per cent for Labour, 10 per cent Conservatives and 15 per cent Liberal Democrats.
Nor should we underestimate the power of âcommunity leadersâ who have strong influence in constituency Labour parties and who, of course, benefit from a growth in numbers.â
March 14, 2023
+many
Iâm certain you are correct on all counts.
March 14, 2023
I know this is a ridiculous question, but in all the baying and breast beating, clutching of pearls to chest that’s going to go on over the next few weeks, will we the heritage population be considered at all?
It is us that is being continually ordered, never asked or consulted, to move along the bus to make room.
It is us that is year on year having to watch as out towns and cities become alien to us, our own history/culture etc. mauled and moulded to suit.
We do not owe the world and his uncle ‘a better life’.
It’s one thing to offer sanctuary in time of war, and for people to then return home once safe to do so, but it’s a completely different matter for people to shop around and choose here just for ‘a better life’ in the numbers we are expected to take.
March 14, 2023
+many
March 14, 2023
I’d quite like to live in much of California, provided with the benefits we in the UK hand out.
I don’t think the US of A is quite as generous?
March 14, 2023
These people pay ÂŁ3000 for the trip then claim they have been forced into slavery in order to stay.
For each person that arrives several British families are taken out the tax system paying for them.
Utter disgrace we have got to this point.
March 14, 2023
Agree – but they donât pay ÂŁ3,000 they have to work off ÂŁ3,000 in the UK in prostitution, the drug trade, begging & pick-pocketing, car wash, shop-lifting etc
This government is encouraging slavery by being soft and woke on illegal immigrants
March 14, 2023
glen cullen
Never a truer word written Glen.
Well said.
March 14, 2023
Unfortunately wrong. People have to pay the fee before boarding the boats, as has been documented, eg, theguardian.com, 24/07/2021 âKingpins in Channel smuggling operation âliving and working freelyâ in the UKâ.
March 14, 2023
I see that nearly everyone on the opposite benches voted against all the government immigration bill , typical leftist attitudes to immigration all they want is open borders, I hope this is all brought up in the run up to the General Election so people can see what sort of country these leftist MPs want
March 14, 2023
Why the hell would anyone vote for any of them?
March 14, 2023
F U S
Very good question. For many the jury is out.
March 14, 2023
Mick … and a former Home Secretary / Labour Peer suggested that the Opposition should not vote against the bill, it representing an elephant trap and a stick with which Labour can be beaten at a later date by the UKG. We’ll see. The person does not think it’ll work anyway & is probably right because it will just get hacked about until it is just another gutless, meaningless, half baked and ineffective piece of nothing much. You just have to look at all those having come out of the woodwork no sooner it had been announced, all full of their own emotional outbursts, compassion & disdain but knowing very little or not wanting to acknowledge what the broader issues are beyond their own ideology or reality.
March 14, 2023
Your description of the debate shows that the government has left it too late, the proposals will be watered down, and Labour will weaken any law or replace/abolish it when they come into office. Just as Jack Straw did to Michael Howardâs asylum rules in 1997, deeming them racist and ignoring advice to the contrary in true Lineker fashion.
March 14, 2023
Maybe this is the government’s plan as they only seem to do something when the majority of the population gets restless without actually delivering any improvements. Unfortunately, due to the candidate selection process, the left infiltrated the Tory party years ago.
March 14, 2023
So much of this wokery is about subverting normal human behaviour.
Strangely, those on the left have used and perverted Christianity to force this.
It is just not normal for people to give away ( or be forced to give away rather) what is justly theirs..to their own absolute detriment.
And no doubt to the great advantage of those pulling the strings!
March 14, 2023
For those arriving illegaly, stop legal aid, stop all benefits and stop putting them up in hotels. Detain them instead in secure camps. Stop giving the French hundreds of ÂŁmillions!
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, send the RN and turn the boats back. Result, chaos for a few days and then they will stop. The business model will be broken as the traffickers will have no paying customers. Lives will be saved from day one. Call it a humanitarian emergency, which it is.
March 14, 2023
BOF. Agree. Push the boats back while just near to British waters and tell the French it’s their responsibility. This problem will only get worse as the weather gets better. The RNLI won’t have time for genuine rescues. They’ll be too busy providing a taxi service to the rest of the world. How do politicians think our infrastructure is going to cope with all these extra people? Not to mention the possibility of extra crime as we all know many are coming over to join criminal gangs. We won’t recognise this country in 10 years time. In fact parts of it are barely recognisable now. I can’t vote for any main party when I see what they are doing to our country.
March 14, 2023
+1 FUS.
March 14, 2023
F U S
The RNLI have allowed themselves to be manipulated into this whole sorry mess. They are not saving lives they are just another taxi on the Border Force rank. They are knowingly aiding and abetting a criminal act and trying to justify their actions claiming to save lives. If you or I tried it on we would be prosecuted no doubts about it.
March 14, 2023
How to get the woke Navy to do it? They’ve already refused to help Priti Patel. As the boats get faster and more robust, only the Navy will be able to deal with it.
March 14, 2023
rose.
Disobeying orders in the military results in a court martial, or is that no longer the case?
March 14, 2023
Agree
March 14, 2023
“Small boats” conveys a famous five type valour and a gentlemanly outlook. Please stop using it. These are illegal immigrants most of whom have no right to come here.
I spent a long time and a lot of money legally processing my wife’s application to first come to this country and then to become a citizen. Her first visa said “No recourse to public funds”. Why should anyone jump that queue and furthermore be provided money for breaking the law..
March 14, 2023
Exactly! Same with my daughter-in-law.
March 14, 2023
N S
Agreed! And in some cases being treated like VIP guests!
March 14, 2023
+1
March 14, 2023
The Opposition spoke as if there were few or no such routes, and as if the UK did not take enough people in need. The government pointed to the Afghan, Syrian, Ukrainian and Hong Kong schemes which are much used. It also reminded the House that there are schemes for people from any qualifying country around the world, with the family reunion route, the Community support route and the general UNHCR scheme.
Half a million (net) last year. Seems fairly easy to me.
March 14, 2023
”the family reunion route” just another loophole
March 14, 2023
though there was less agreement over how much such emergency accommodation was needed and to what standard.
Is there anything in this bill that makes it legal and unable to be challenged to house these criminals in camps and detention centres long term?
If they are truly fleeing poor conditions and oppression they should be grateful for a tent, let alone a roof and three squares a day.
March 14, 2023
Exactly NS.
March 14, 2023
Dear Sir John , thank you for a very detailed report of the proceedings in Parliament on the passage of the Bill. But as expected , really a waste of time.
The small boat crossings cannot be fixed by Politics as can be seen from yesterday.
The French and British Governments must invest in an all out war on the Criminal gangs involved. We can find the money to keep the war going between Ukraine and Russia. Can find the odd ÂŁmillions for this project surely. This would of course mean more people recruited into the police services of both countries and being a joint international force.
The migrant crisis is a problem for France too and difficult to say they have to keep all of them and not allow them out of France. At least some of them.
But the big question is why do they want to come to the UK and not stay in France? Is a life in the UK so much better than in France ? I don’t think so.
We all know why. Most in Parliament can’t see past the label asylum seeker and look at the actual people coming across in the small boats and their real motives.
March 14, 2023
Well knock me down with a feather, I never though I would be supporting this Bill (and by extension the current Home Sec.) but I do! My reasons are far many to mention in the short-form comment our host prefers. Does the Bill have faults and errors, of course, but hopefully they will get picked up an corrected during the Committee stages.
March 14, 2023
This Bill is the same as the 2002 Bill ….they currently have the law already to assign a refugee/asylum-seeker transiting a friendly 3rd country as inadmissible to claim
But due to the ECHR they either have the will or the fight to enforce the law
March 14, 2023
Donât vote for the proposed Immigration Bill 2023, vote to amended the current Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 and vote to leave the Council of Europe ECHR
March 15, 2023
@glen cullen; “leave the Council of Europe ECHR”
Be very careful of what you wish for, just to control a *relatively* few illegal migrants, whilst throwing out the legitimate rights and protections of 60+ million UK citizens, unless of course that’s the silent intention of a vocal (unelected) political minority be they the extreme right or extreme left. Remember, for example, the ECHR protects those who do NOT want to join a trade Union as much as it protect trade unions.
Even having left the ECHR the UK would still have to abide by UN asylum/refuge laws, or is that the next baby to be thrown out?…
March 15, 2023
or we can live with our own ‘bill of rights’
March 14, 2023
This is not rocket science. Westminster needs to make decisions based on the cost of allowing a migrant to stay in UK. Considering the debts our politicians have accrued over the years. The answer is very little money indeed. So selection of asylum seekers should be stringent & based on what they can bring to us. If not productive or difficult to ID. They are deported to Rwanda. Refugees remain forever welcome.
We need to stop being the bread basket to the world. We are a small overpopulated island, that struggles to support those who live here now!
Enough is enough! Westminster needs to start acting for British citizens not illegal migrants!
March 14, 2023
Sir John, I see from the DT that some of your Tory colleagues are trying to weaken the bill by claiming migrants are escaping from ‘modern-day slavery’. I wasn’t aware there was much of that in France. Or is Sunak giving half ÂŁbn to a country that practises modern day slavery?
March 14, 2023
There are tens, if not hundreds of thousands of workers on minimum wage with no alternative trying to find a better paid job, who would probably agree that they feel like modern day slave labour.
March 15, 2023
Hat Man: Perhaps they should also be more concerned and alert to the migrants escaping the clutches of our Border Force as they land and disappear. From beaches. From hotels. From beaches further down the coast from Dover. How about the east of England. Slapton Sands ( Devon ) anyone ? What happened to those 12 and their two taxis waiting to assist them to their unknown destination ( June 2022 ) One case of many. How about Ireland and its amnesty by any other name for a proposed 17.000. How might that affect the situation for the UK. UKG didn’t quite match that figure but had a good try with a proposed 12.000, to be given forms and waved through. France: reported several months back, French media revealed that 90% of deportation orders in France are not enforced.
March 14, 2023
I heard a question from the left wing bbc interviewer mishal hussein to Tom tugenhat this am – not very well answered. (Silly) Question was what safe and legal routes are open to a persecuted womenâs rights activist in Iran, she canât come to the U.K.? answers should have been: 1) the vast majority of illegal migrants arenât womenâs rights activists from Iran they are overwhelmingly (relatively) well-off young men from safe countries like Albania. 2) no-one who arrives on a boat from France is a ârefugeeâ. France is a safe country. There is no need to flee from France. You might prefer to live in the U.K. over France – mainly perhaps because the benefits system is easier to access. But thatâs being a migrant not a refugee, so you need to do it legally.
This is a good wedge issue. The posturing and virtue signalling left represented by the likes of Gary Lineker are lining up behind open borders. In reality they want no controls. Starmer and Yvette cooper have no answers and no sensible plans themselves, they are just against controls. I think thereâs a video circulating where Starmer says anyone wanting border controls is a far right racist. It must be widely circulated, We should have 75% of the Country with us on this – bring it on.
March 14, 2023
If they campaign as you say they should, this is the issue on which the Tories can win the next election. I’m afraid, on past showing, they’ll just drop the ball.
It’s Reform UK for me.
March 14, 2023
hear hear
March 14, 2023
Why do we focus on all the negatives relating to this worldwide problem.
The positive approach would be to set up controls on the western coast of Europe ( the problem is not only in France) and to then process applications there. Obvious questions are: where are you from, do you speak English, what skills can you offer. A satisfactory response and they get a visa to travel to the UK by a safe route. No visa- no entry regardless of who they are.
We limit the numbers and the successful migrants are those who can contribute regardless of where they are from. We just need to convince the EU of the benefits of such a system to them and us.
March 14, 2023
The cave in by the BBCâs management to the posturing leftist Gary Lineker under which Lineker has reportedly said he will use his poll-tax funded profile to argue for whatever politics he likes, shows that the bbc cannot any longer make any pretence of being impartial. Fine with me. But the license fee now needs to go. We would not say if you want to read any newspaper or magazine in the U.K. you need to pay a poll tax to finance the guardian so the same argument applies to the bbc.
March 14, 2023
No need to do anything with the Telly Tax – Just do not pay it and watch its content.
No dough, no (TV) show.
Simple.
March 14, 2023
Good point Richard1. Why are we expected to pay a licence fee, to be fed left wing, woke, and carbon neutral propaganda.
During the Covid19 so called pandemic there was all that propaganda also.
March 14, 2023
The common thread amongst all parties opposing the bill is that none have a remotely viable alternative solution. The most popular one is talk to the EU and the French, hardly surprising, when most are still ardent remainers!
The fatal flaw in their argument is that we already know that neither Macron nor the EU will take the unwanted illegal migrants back !
March 14, 2023
ââ Macron nor the EU will take the unwanted illegal migrants back !ââ
Then they should be considered âhostile neighboursâ and we should impose sanctions accordingly
March 14, 2023
If you cant control youre Borders and those who you wish to allow to remain what is the point of voting. Ben Habib said something of interest, Joining the ECHR was a condition of the Good Friday Agreement, surely as this was imposed on the Enlish By Foreighners like Blair, Mitchell et all this would have been against the English Bill of Rights 1688/89 that was on Statute at the time, The English are Excluded from the British Irish Council (BIC) set up in Strand 3 GFA, two weeks after the vote in 2016 the Welsh called a meeting of the BIC, This means the IRA were sat at a discussion that the Majority on these Isles were excluded from, Someone needs to obtain the Minutes from that meeting, it may show when this seven year stitch up was orchestrated.
March 14, 2023
The Belfast Agreement says âECHR or any Bill of Rightsâ
We can leave the ECHRs without it effecting the agreement
March 14, 2023
The reporter on the BBC this morning asking someone from the government the safe legal asylum route for a woman in hiding in Iran.
My response is to ask why should an Iranian woman have the right to decide which country she chooses to accept her asylum application? Surely asylum is in the gift of the country, who has the right to accept or refuse. I would also suggest that if Iran is such a bad country, the people there should stand up for themselves rather than run away.
As to the law for small boats, it needs to be backed up with a legitimate asylum office in France. That way anyone arriving illegally has no grounds for claiming asylum, because they passed by the official route. The office can assess their claim and link them with an appropriate charity who can sponsor their application. No legal aid, the charity can pay the legal costs or the lawyers can work pro bono if they are sympathetic.
March 14, 2023
Dave Andrew’s
Rather than run away
Good job we didn’t have that attitude in 1939. As Poland discovered over time there was a dearth of trades and professionals. Large numbers have gone back after building up their finances assets in some cases assisted by benefit claims made for their children living back home.
That is how soft this country has become.
March 15, 2023
I would have asked Mishal Husain about the Christian woman from her own Pakistan, Asia Bibi, who was refused refuge here in dire straits because we had been so profligate with our nationality that this was no longer a safe country for her.
March 14, 2023
Sophistry its all just sophistry unless we leave the ECHRs and the UN slavery pact âŠ.our politicians are more concerned about âsaving faceâ rather than complying with the wishes of voting public
March 14, 2023
Personally I’m fed up with politicians that can see no further than the Westmonster bubble. The ordinary hard working British person is having the urine extracted from them by people seeking an easy life courtesy of us taxpayers and to the detriment of us all. Parliament should be ashamed when they look at the overcrowded schools, the NHS waiting list, the shortage of affordable housing for our young and the soaring crime rates. Will they ever put us first?
March 14, 2023
Time will tell if this step is enough, I expect that it will not be.
However, it is definitely a great step forwards for the country and for our party, not one of us voted against!
March 14, 2023
“There was an unwillingness by the Opposition to accept ” I doubt it, just political pressure on a weak inept Government that has lost its way.
March 14, 2023
There was a time when the labour party was against any immigration and joining the EEC to protect UK jobs âŠ.how things have changed â anything just to grab a vote
March 14, 2023
The SBB highlights the divide in the HoC and will provide ammunition at the election because the electorate have had enough of illegals gamming the system. The only rebalance in the HoC would come from fjlling all Islington hotels and B&Bs with illegals.
The achilles heel of the traffickers is boats and engines, reported largely to come from China. Go for the illegal importation into the EU of same and leave the traffickers the only option of giving swimming lessons. If I can work this out then the combined talents of GCHQ, MI5, MI6, and the DGS should wrap it up in a week. There can only be a limited number of ports where shipments from China arrive. If the traffickers switch to home manufacturers go for the materials used.
NIP appart it does show what a sieve of international borders the EU has.
March 14, 2023
âagainst Human Rights lawâ. Whoâs Law, a Law created that cant be amended, and repealed by the democratic process? That is not a Law.
Oh, yeah I forgot, the Democratically elected MPâs in the UK cant make, amend or repeal Laws they have to bow down to the unelected, unaccountable. Why do we call this UK a Democracy, when those we embolden with powers refuse their job.
How about the Human Rights of UK Citizens, who will protect them?
March 14, 2023
Cough, cough, The Human Rights Act was voted by Parliament, received Royal Assent on 09/11/1998, and came into force on 02/10/2000 (legislation.gov.uk). It was amended (Order 1574) in 2004 via a Statutory Instrument.
It is really tough to deal with stoopeed people, I now understand why Sir John practically lets (almost) anybody write (almost) anything on his blog.
March 15, 2023
Every one is entitled to a view. All are interesting and raise other issues. If everything was provable, there would be no debate, no discussion. We don’t all have the time to muck about on the internet all day. Perhaps only you should be allowed to write, how would that be? You’d be the cleverest one here.
March 14, 2023
+1
March 14, 2023
“The Opposition spoke as if there were few or no such routes”
If there are or were such routes, the Home Secretary would be able to give an answer to Tim Loughton’s question, however, we are, as always, still waiting.
March 14, 2023
Will you be seeking an explanation as to why T. May was in the House for the vote but no vote was recorded for her?
There were a number of others not present too. Some in the “usual suspects” category (Nokes) and others such as Johnson, Gove, Davis.
March 14, 2023
XY, She is in the âno vote recordedâ with 40 other Conservative MPs (votes.parliament.uk âDivision 191, 13/03/2023, 22:15)
March 14, 2023
So it wasn’t a three line whip
March 14, 2023
“If they come here illegally, they would not be supported to escape their slavery,” Mrs May said in relation to victims.
They are coming from France a EU State that prides itself in freedoms and so they say does not engage in any form of slavery.
As Sir John offered ‘The government pointed to the Afghan, Syrian, Ukrainian and Hong Kong schemes which are much used. It also reminded the House that there are schemes for people from any qualifying country around the world, with the family reunion route,’
Just more adverse comments being piled on a failed inept Conservative Government
March 14, 2023
Ian B
The only family reunion route must be only if the members can financially support themselves or if they have a special professional skill the country needs. Doctors, Scientists, Engineers.
No benefits eligible until 2 years of full employment and taxes paid.
March 14, 2023
ââ family reunion routeââ is just a loophole
I once worked with a lady on a university project, she was from an Asian country, she was here accompanying her husband who was doing a Phd, 12 months in she had a child, 24 months in theyâd both achieved settled status, I lost contact with her but understand later theyâd both gained citizenship and some of her family followed âŠit was all planned
March 14, 2023
I find this whole subject very frustrating and stressful! I don’t understand how the opposition cannot see why we cannot open our borders to every person who wants to come here. We arent big enough or have the infrastructure to accept the worlds poor. We have a right to restrict the numbers, set standards and keep out criminals and the economic migrants who do not in any way benefit this or any other country. We need to stop pampering them and close our borders.
March 14, 2023
From the MsM, we get even more irony
The PM is celebrating the AUKUS submarine deal and there is much gloating over the French loosing out
Then sneaking in the backdoor the eyes and ears of all these submarines â will be French, as it is with all other RN Ships and Submarines. If the French Government objects to any action does the Navy stay in port. I suppose just as it is with those Countries with German supplies wanting to help the Ukraine
March 14, 2023
The people who government us don’t really want this to stop. Many overtly support illegal immigration, others claim they oppose it but will not risk taking effective action.
With only 2 years left, ConLab might as well try being tough on immigration as a last ditch attempt to fend off LabCon.
That would include an all out attack on the pull factors, as Mark B covered above.
March 14, 2023
Wanderer
+ many. #### or bust nothing to lose we have nearly lost already.
March 14, 2023
Home Sec ‘Many Albanians have been required to return to their home’.
That’s all right then, but no mention of how ‘many’ is, or what happens next. Are they being put on chartered flights out or merely being told they can find their own way whenever it suits them ( and of course they will all obey such a ‘requirement’ being all honest law abiding people). Looks like like another soundbite to cover up Home Office inaction, unless, Sir John, you can refute that and provide details of how many of the tens of thousands here have been removed, or a certain date when they will be. I won’t hold me breath.
March 14, 2023
1369, in the 12 months to September 2022, information available to any nincompoop able to do a web search. But I guess it might be quite demanding for some of you.
March 15, 2023
Thanks for that Hef. Thanks for the insult. Even if your figure is right (and I always doubt official figures, whereas figures given verbally in the House have to be accurate, which is probably why they don’t do it) it is a very low figure considering none are proper refugees. I’m not as clever as you obviously. What has happened in the last 6 months? A verbal from JR would be useful. Everything is so slow.
March 14, 2023
I watched the debate yesterday and was appalled . We have been ” soft soaps ” to illegals for years – offering conditions to them that they find attractive – conditions that are not available to our own people . The approach outlined by the Home Secretary I fully support ; we need to get tough and ignore international agreements such as the ECHR . We are an overcrowded country with little available space compared to others .
March 14, 2023
The opposition have a mindless attitude – they do not reason as normal individuals but as a group devoted to destroying what is still good about the UK, and that has always been the goal of UK socialists
March 14, 2023
Well, Sir J.,
The proof of the pudding will be in the (final) eating. That is, will what ends up on the Statute book after the Lords have had their say actually work?
March 14, 2023
No Atlas, obviously it will not work.
March 14, 2023
Genuine asylum seekers would be applying for asylum in France and be arriving with their passports to prove they had been fleeing from torture in their own countries.
The Channel boat arrivals, arriving without passports and hence without ID, should be returned to where they set out/where they have been living, namely France, just as we would for anyone else rescued from the sea, such as those in fishing or leisure boats who have got into difficulties.
There may be some fuss for a few days but it would quickly stop when those paying to be smuggled across illegally find themselves back in France having lost their money.
The French know this is the right approach to halt the smuggling and that it is also to their benefit because it will put a stop to the hundreds of thousands of illegal migrants hanging around Norther France waiting for a smugglerâs boat to take them across the Channel.
The taxpayer money used by the Cabinet Office and the Home Office to fund the organisations taking the government to court over proposals to deal with illegal immigration would be better spent giving to the French for them to pay for the return of these illegal migrants back to their home countries.
March 14, 2023
It beggars belief that our MPs would not want this country to have complete control over its borders.
Most probably it is pure naivety and gullibility of these persons that they do not wish us to have such a bill to control illegal immigration.
What logical reason can they have for blocking ALL persons who come here illegally and therefore break our existing laws as well as threaten our national SECURITY?
It is the duty of Parliament to protect us citizens. By allowing unfettered access to illegal entrants, especially those without any form of valid I.D, proving exactly who they are and where they have ‘escaped’ from, we are subjecting the Nation to potentially evil criminals and terrorists. Just how many British lives will be ruined or lost before these dissenters realise their folly? Too late of course.
The current Parliament worries me for there are too many sitting there that do not think of putting Britain and its citizens, FIRST. It is certainly now time for change for the better.
March 14, 2023
Biometric ID cards. No card – no job, no bank account, no renting, no medical care, no benefits and, most importantly, confiscation of business or property for anyone employing.someone without ID. Whatâs not to like?
March 14, 2023
Mike youâre describing the current situation in the Americas, Africa, the Middle East and Asia âŠ.weâre the mugs, try asking for a state benefit or free health care in Vietnam, DR Congo, Bolivia or Yemen âŠand forget Russia & China
March 14, 2023
The not thinking it through bit, all the time the Government facilitates criminal/illegal activity the more it will continue.
Government with their claws into the taxpayer have shown a total disdain of those that put them in a position to make decisions for all of us. All the Government has done to-date is line the pockets of people traffickers, once the first lot gets formally returned it will be turning off the tap of this horrendous trade in humans.
As you say Sir John it will not hamper those with legitimate reasons to seek refuge in the UK. In fact it will enhance their passage, as the places they should have had have been robbed by criminals.
March 15, 2023
Ian B : “All the Government has done to-date is line the pockets of people traffickers, once the first lot gets formally returned it will be turning off the tap of this horrendous trade in humans.”
You’re forgetting the more important lining of the pockets of the whole UK Human Rights industry – the “charities”, NGOs, human rights think tanks and lobby groups, the human rights lawyers and finally the judges who are making the law instead of our elected members of Parliament. Not forgetting the whole industry built upon looking after the illegal immigrants giving them free shelter, free meals and ÂŁ40/week pocket money. It all requires organisation and staff and no doubt counts as increasing our GDP. The more illegal immigrants that land on our shores the more money they make. So for our current Parliament, what’s not to like?
March 14, 2023
I am surprised, then again not surprised by the need for yet another bill we have bill after bill and each one appears as another tactic to delay doing what was always possible. That is if the UK had a democratic Government of its own.
There is much talk at the moment about another announcement for this another for that. A review on top of a defence review before the findings of the previous one gets announced let alone acted on.
There is also talk of the Government extending the cap on energy for another 3 months. Why you have to ask. I think Sir John has mentioned this before, if this Conservative Government removed the additional taxes and levies it has placed on the energy market, then in all probability they wouldnât have to collect these taxes/levies only to hand them back. Socialism in its highest form.
March 14, 2023
@Ian B Mind you getting rid of OFGEM would help, they gave up on protecting the consumer and replaced their duty with protecting the producer. But, then again another seemingly job-for-the-boys department so it will never happen – the taxpayer keeps paying.
March 14, 2023
It is very sad but the situation normal with the vast majority of inhabitants of the two houses just begs belief.
They never learn. He we go again watching them wee before their flies are open and just voting against what is trying to be proposed for the good of this country and its existing inhabitants because of political dogma.
Just apply the basic principles of power consumption of each invader and the demand that they bring on our electrical generation and distribution supply then the water and sewerage treatment demands and the problem just gets greater in relation to the number of new arrivals. Nearly all our politicians are totally committed to Net Zero!!?
Somewhere somebody is having a laugh or just extracting the urine and treating us as complete idiots.
Right-hand does not know what the left is doing. Incompetence and ignorance know no bounds.
March 14, 2023
declare a moratorium on asylum conventions for 20 years. Stop family reunion and stop refugees from offshoring money. Then is all stops instantly. Allowing mostly young males who may well have criminal pasts into the country puts all at risk but women most of all.
March 14, 2023
+1 it really is a state emergency, but parliament have their headsin the sand
March 14, 2023
Labour, the SNP and Lib Dems seem think that Human Rights laws apply only to immigrants and not to British citizens.
March 14, 2023
I don’t know how true the rumours in the media are that the Chancellor is going to do something for higher earners and their pensions. Whether true or false, I haven’t noticed the media disapproving in any way, no furious indignation at “borrowing to fund tax cuts for the rich”. No hedgies jumping in to short the pound on scenting political blood. No class hatred being whipped up to topple the government. Nor from politicians either.
March 14, 2023
Analysis skills a bitty deficient there, rose, arenât they? If the rumours are true, increasing the ceiling of pension contribution for higher earners practically costs almost nothing as the number of people benefitting from such a âlargesseâ will be limited, does not require borrowing, is unlikely to affect the exchange rate, is likely to make pension funds richer, will possibly (indirectly) lead to extra money to start-ups.
And LL might even shut up for a while, at least on this topic. Whatâs not to like?
March 15, 2023
The tax proposals in the Kwarteng growth statement were either cost neutral or beneficial. It was the energy package which wasn’t, and it will be the childcare package this time. Where is the consistency of criticism from the remainiac media?
March 14, 2023
The assorted Left (including supposedly ‘Conservative’ dissenters’) have never come up with a practical immigration-restricting measure to reduce immigration from the massive present levels. Some say make the rest of the world richer(and safer, stopping all wars) than us so nobody would wish to come here. With less than 1% of world population in the U.K. that silly idea is impossible. The other lefty idea is to create more legal safe routes to here for immigrants which would not decrease immigration but massively increase it (since at least at present some are deterred by having to go to France, wait there and pay a lot of money for a life risking journey). There is no known alternative to a strategy of great deterrence for stopping illegal immigration.
Gary Lineker has also provided no sensible alternative .As his main pay is from the BBC, he is in effect an employee. He is not only politically openly partisan but also so grotesquely wrong in equating this government with the Nazis that even some Labour spokesmen have distanced themselves from that. However all the main BBC football commentators weren’t put off by that but vigorously supported him which suggests one must be a lefty even to be a BBC sports commentator, so biased is the BBC. Its bias is less on overtly political programmes (where the occasional frontman interviewer is a Conservative) but in the soft propaganda broadcasts such as Thought For The Day, A Point Of View and The Moral Maze where there is no balance but an overwhelming majority of leftist commentators.
So it is time to end the license fee and end the nationalised BBC which is like other nationalised concerns hopelessly bad value for money (ask Silvio Berlusconi who managed to run many Italian television channels with no license fee).
March 14, 2023
“She told us that many Albanians have now been required to return to their home.”
And how many illegal Albanian migrants have demonstrably complied and actually returned to Albania?
As opposed to being merely ‘required’ to do so.
The figures for successful expulsion are ridiculously low.