Can we now cut VAT?

One of my reasons for campaigning over the Northern Ireland protocol is I want the UK government to be able to set or amend taxes they impose. One of the Brexit wins for me was going to be removing VAT from items that should not be taxed like female hygiene products, home insulation and other green items. I also wanted to raise the threshold limit before a small business has to comply. There are many cases now of small businesses that stop trading during the year in order to avoid exceeding the £85,000 turnover limit. Literally guests houses have some months when they refuse guests and many small trading businesses discourage orders when they are getting near the limit.

The arguments of the last few weeks have not for me been theoretical or constitutional or over diplomacy. They have been about these basic issues of who sets the taxes and who fixes the law that have a direct impact on the small businesses of my constituency and the rest of our country. In 2019 the UK lost a case in the European Court and was forced to impose VAT on  wind and water turbines. A complex services test was imposed before insulation could qualify for zero VAT. In 2022 the UK legislated to correct some of this bad judgement, but could not make changes for Northern Ireland under the Protocol.

I have long been worried that the Treasury’s reluctance to raise the VAT threshold relates to their belief that they cannot do so for Northern Ireland. I will table some more questions about what powers the EU will still have under the latest agreement, both over NI and the whole of the UK. It appears the UK has accepted it needs to keep much of the VAT law framework. VAT is a bureaucratic tax, expensive for business to administer. Instead of just being a tax on the final consumer, a simple purchase tax, it is a tax on all business activity. It needs a system of input and output taxation, with businesses trying to reclaim VAT on materials and intermediates, as every time a component, material or finished manufacture changes hands it attracts VAT.

154 Comments

  1. Mark B
    March 25, 2023

    Good morning.

    You are not reading from the script, Sir John. We cannot diverge from the EU as that would make rejoining difficult.

    Anyway. Since VAT is/was a EU tax, who now gets the money ? If it is the UK government then post so called BREXIT is has more cash, which begs the question – Why are we being taxed even more ?

    Where is all this money going ?

    1. Cuibono
      March 25, 2023

      +many
      80,000 ( and still counting) guesses?

    2. Ian wragg
      March 25, 2023

      Under the NI protocol VAT in Northern Ireland cannot go below the EU minimum of 5% without Brussels permission. That means it can’t be removed in the rest of the UK as it would highlight just what a lier Fishy and Chicom are.
      The short answe to your question is NO.

      1. Ian wragg
        March 25, 2023

        Under the NI protocol VAT in Northern Ireland cannot go below the EU minimum of 5% without Brussels permission. That means it can’t be removed in the rest of the UK as it would highlight just what a lier Fishy and Chicom are.
        The short answe to your question is NO. One of the reasons thenew support ships for the RN are being built between Belfast and Spain is because Harland and Wolf would have to build to EU spec
        So it’s easier to build in Spain and assemble in Belfast.

        1. glen cullen
          March 25, 2023

          The Barons & Dukes of Brussels …our Lords & Masters

      2. Bloke
        March 25, 2023

        Northern Ireland is a member of our UK family, and each of our family enjoyed doing things together in harmony.
        The EU Protocol treated Northern Ireland as if it were a vicious tiger.
        Then the Windsor Frame-up tranquilised it with a poisonous drug.
        That previously healthy member of our family is now in a remote EU Doesn’t Care Home at a loss we are paying them to keep.

      3. Berkshire Alan
        March 25, 2023

        Ian

        I am afraid Northern Ireland is now lost, unless further negotiations take place at some future stage.
        The Mainland UK Politicians now have to govern for ourselves and what is right for the rest of us, and forget Northern Irelands situation.
        If politicians continue to worry about what the EU and Northern Ireland will allow, then there is absolutely no point in us even trying to be a Sovereign UK and Govern ourselves, it really is simple as that.
        If the northern Ireland Politicians and people do not like the way we move forward under our own control and policies, then let them protest to the EU and if necessary dump this so called solution and leave the EU completely, something we should have done at the outset ourselves.
        We cannot and should not hold back the rest of the UK because of Northern Ireland.

        1. heavensent
          March 25, 2023

          The only group holding things up in NI at the moment is the leadership of the DUP can’t make it mind up? Some leadership

    3. BOF
      March 25, 2023

      Mark B
      Where is the money going? Up the wall and down the drain. HS2, green subsidies for NZ & CC, illegal migrants in hotels, legal aid for same, a vast useless cs, a failing NHS, exporting business and importing about everything.

      1. turboterrier
        March 25, 2023

        BOF
        What about all the money that is going through members of advisory committees by leaking lnformation to assist their connections and friendly investors.
        “But they are doing nothing wrong”???
        How many on this site alone quote regularly “follow the money”?
        Nobody seems to want to do it.

        1. BOF
          March 25, 2023

          +1 tt.

      2. Ashley
        March 25, 2023

        Billions spent making Covid worse with lockdowns, test and trace, dodgy vaccines, eat out to help out, net zero…

        1. glen cullen
          March 25, 2023

          £37bn on track n trace ….and the tory backbenches and the opposition said nothing

        2. graham1946
          March 26, 2023

          And an admission yesterday that they are not even trying to track down the Covid loan fraudsters.

    4. jerry
      March 25, 2023

      @Mark B; Nonsense, even a WTO exit would not have excluded the GBNI from rejoining the EU, it would have just extended our ‘candidate stage’ were accession countries have to adjust their polices to those of the EU before (re)joining.

    5. British Patriot
      March 25, 2023

      Sir John: “Can we now cut VAT?”
      Sunak and Hunt (in unison): “NO. Now go away. We don’t care what you want. But remember to keep supporting our government!”
      Sir John: “Yes, OK, I’ll vote for your budget … (even if I don’t agree with it)”.
      BUT, in an alternative universe:
      Sir John: “Well F you then. I’m joining Reform UK and going to be their parliamentary representative – and persuade my friends to join them too. See how you like that, Sunak and Hunt, you useless traitors!”

      Reply I voted against the original National Insurance increase and told the whips I would not vote for the Corporation tax rise. As all the Opposition parties backed the CT rise there was not vote.

    6. British Patriot
      March 25, 2023

      Sir John, I completely agree with your wish to see the VAT threshold raised on small firms. I keep reading of so many of these who are deliberately refusing to grow in order to remain within the VAT-exempt limit. But on VAT for consumers I think you are too unimaginative and unambitious. Here is my proposal, taken from my ‘alternative budget’ on my British Patriot substack blog:

      “Why do we have to pay VAT on a burger but not on a sandwich – unless it’s toasted, when you do pay VAT, but not if it’s a bagel, when you don’t, even if it’s toasted? Or on essentials like toothpaste and toilet paper but not on luxuries like caviar? Or on crisps but not on tortilla chips? The VAT rules are idiotic and unfair and need changing. We need to sweep away the current convoluted rules and exemptions which, believe it or not, even led to a huge court case to decide if Jaffa Cakes were cakes (VAT exempt) or biscuits (not exempt)! By the way, in case you’re curious, the final verdict was that they are cakes. Well, what a great use of our legal system that was. I therefore propose to scrap the current complicated system and move to a simple one which is purely based on the value of the item being sold. This is how it would work:

      i. No VAT on anything under £10, or on domestic electricity or gas
      ii. 10% VAT on goods between £10-20
      iii. 20% (the current VAT rate) on all items above £20

      This would be much fairer, benefit everyone buying their daily essentials, and dramatically reduce inflation.”

      What do you think, Sir John?

      1. MFD
        March 25, 2023

        Also Bri Pat lets call it a “ purchase tax” that would remove all connection with the eu scam!

      2. jerry
        March 25, 2023

        @British Patriot; Its not just VAT but UBR that deters small companies from expanding, should that have even taken the plunge to rent or buy proper premises, when even a much needed mezzanine floor is looked upon with caution. Everyone understands there needs to be business rates but many are being fleeced, or productive hours are wasted dealing with UBR appeals.

  2. Cuibono
    March 25, 2023

    The strict adherence to EU/International law is very puzzling in the light of govt.’s total disregard for many laws of the land ( those that don’t suit presumably).
    A Pick n Mix legal approach where citizens lives are made unbearable by a fanatical insistence on berserk constraints yet also by a complete disregard for the laws that would keep us safe and happy.
    Oh I forgot…of course, WE are enemy number one.
    Mistreat milch cows and eventually you get no milk!

    1. Ian B
      March 25, 2023

      @Cuibono – International law, treaties etc are between Countries/States the EU Commission is neither, in the same way it is not elected or held accountable directly to the EU electorate. They are the Law, the Ruler, the ‘They’ that must be obeyed. We waste our time and money in the UK with elections, in having a Parliament when all MP’s do is toe the line of not their electorate but their higher being in a foriegn land

      1. Cuibono
        March 25, 2023

        +1
        Yes..I am beginning to see that now.

  3. Sakara Gold
    March 25, 2023

    The government has just increased the level of taxation that the country has to pay to the highest since WW2 – 70 years ago. The national debt has reached the unprecedented heights of 104% of GDP, ~ £2.4 TRILLION. The recent budget did nothing to promote manufacturing or exports, neither was it actually anything to do with ‘growth’

    After 14 years in power, tinkering with the VAT rate will not solve our problems. Many people have had enough of high taxation and have left the workforce entirely. The government’s response? Force the single mothers (and women generaly) back into work.

    The only way out of this mess – that successive Conservative governments have got us into – is to rebuild exports and start paying down the national debt. Giving really huge subsidies to the fossil fuel industry to develop marginal N Sea gas and oil fields will just make things worse. We need to develop our nascent electricity export market with more renewable energy.

    1. Pud
      March 25, 2023

      Regarding “more renewable energy”, what are your suggestions for how to make the sun shine more and how to persuade the wind to blow constantly, but not too fast?

      1. Sakara Gold
        March 25, 2023

        @pud
        This morning our renewable energy assets were producing an outstanding 13.8GW of electricity at 09.00hrs, equivalent to 52% of demand. Renewable electricity this winter has displaced more than a third of the UK’s entire annual gas demand for power generation. Without it, the UK would have had to increase net gas imports by more than 22 per cent (including gas imported via pipeline)

        Generating the same amount of electricity using CCGT would have required around 95TWh of gas – equal to 110 tankers of LNG – or the amount more than 10 million UK homes would burn over the winter.

        If you don’t know what you are talking about, why do you bother posting crap you have read in the Telegraph or the Mail?

        1. Ian wragg
          March 25, 2023

          But you never explain where the power comes from on the 55 days when the wind doesn’t blow
          Would you invest in CCGT plants when they can only be run inefficiently at less than base load or completely shut down for weeks at a time.
          We have a very precarious national grid now wi d takes precedence and it will get worse the more you connect
          I spent t0 years in the power industry.

          1. Ian wragg
            March 25, 2023

            But you never explain where the power comes from on the 55 days when the wind doesn’t blow
            Would you invest in CCGT plants when they can only be run inefficiently at less than base load or completely shut down for weeks at a time.
            We have a very precarious national grid now wind takes precedence and it will get worse the more you connect
            I spent 50 years in the power industry.

          2. Ashley
            March 25, 2023

            Indeed alas parliament is stuffed with art graduate who do not have a clue. The DoT even state that cycling and walking produce no CO2 directly or indirectly so deluded are their experts.

          3. turboterrier
            March 25, 2023

            Ian Wragg
            With your obvious experience and knowledge of working in the power industry, I think you will enjoy reading this hard hitting article article (not from the Express, Telegraph or Mail)!!!:-

            Wind & Solar Power: Always & Everywhere Totally Unreliable & Insanely Expensive

            Rank Innumeracy On The Cost Of Electricity From Renewables
            Manhattan Contrarian
            Francis Menton
            A recurring theme here at Manhattan Contrarian is that the “smart” people who seek to run the world are not really very smart. They may have gotten high scores on the SATs, and they may have attended fancy universities, but when it comes to practical knowledge of how the world works they are often complete idiots……..

            http://stopthesethings.com/2023/03/25/wind-solar-power-always-everywhere-totally-unreliable-insanely-expensive/

          4. hefner
            March 26, 2023

            Ashley, can you please compare how much CO2 a person walking or cycling is producing by breathing with what a car would produce over the same distance, also taking into account that the driver would obviously not stop breathing during the trip? Thanks.
            You might stop embarrassing yourself after that.

        2. RichardP
          March 25, 2023

          @Sakara Gold
          You might have noticed that the wind was blowing quite energetically this morning, hence the high output from the wind generators.
          The problem is what to use for electricity when the wind doesn’t blow. As you acknowledge in your reply we have to return to CCGT or other fossil fuel forms of power generation. It means every wind turbine has to be backed up by expensive plant kept on standby.
          The other problem with wind power is the effect it has on birds, bats and insects on land and marine life offshore. I’m sure the environment is important to you.

        3. Pud
          March 25, 2023

          Let’s agree that today renewables produced 52% of the UK’s electricity needs. It’s rather windy where I live, if that’s typical for the country then renewables should be doing well, but we still need 48% from non-renewable sources. If we look at the past year https://grid.iamkate.com/ says renewables only produced 35%. Hence my querying how renewables are going to produce more given that they rely on sun and wind which aren’t always going to be cooperative. Where’s the renewable electricity going to come from on a windless night?

          1. Ashley
            March 25, 2023

            +1

        4. Berkshire Alan
          March 25, 2023

          Sakara
          You keep on banging on about renewables, and of course they can, and should be part of the mix, but what is it you do not understand about lack of wind and sun.
          You can fill every square mile of the country with millions of windmills and solar panels, but if they do not turn around or heat up because we have no wind or sun, then they do not produce anything.
          You must have a system that will produce power for a guaranteed base load otherwise you have black outs.
          I also thought all this renewable power was supposed to be cheaper, but in practice that has not been the case, perhaps you can advise why ?

          1. Ashley
            March 25, 2023

            +1 it was never going to be cheaper after the cost of subsidy and the back up needed is considered. Not even very low in C02 as loads of fossil fuel is needed to construct, connect and maintain them.

        5. turboterrier
          March 25, 2023

          Sakara Gold
          It’s not the 52% at 0900 it’s the 48% from other sources and the other power sources having to operate on tick over incase the wind drops or the sun gets clouded out that matter. This country needs totally reliable power generated to cary base load plus peaking 24/7.

    2. Nottingham Lad Himself
      March 25, 2023

      They’ve got their silly blue passports – which they could have had anyway – and are rid of a tiny ring of yellow stars on car number plates. They now need some other barely-noticeable thing over which to obsess, and here it is.

      1. Lynn Atkinson
        March 25, 2023

        Yes, silly little things we want now like affordable taxation and a cessation of the invasion.
        We want the Kings Oath to include, as it has done for 1,000 years, that we ‘will be governed by our own laws’. Interesting to see whether Charles more modern Oath includes that, or whether he pulls on the glove and promises ‘a light touch in taxation’.

        1. Ashley
          March 25, 2023

          +1

        2. Ashley
          March 25, 2023

          And a real democracy not pointless puppet politicians.

          1. Lynn Atkinson
            March 25, 2023

            We have to return proper, substantial people. The King should not be involved in politics – neither should the Prince of Wales. Ie no visits to foreign war zones and no campaigning for Net Zero.

      2. Bloke
        March 25, 2023

        The ‘silly’ passports you describe are printed in Poland, a member of the EU since 2004.

      3. IanT
        March 25, 2023

        Whatever the colour of your passport NLH – I wouldn’t suggest visiting Paris at the moment, the French are busy obsessing over their retirement age it seems.

        1. Sir Joe Soap
          March 25, 2023

          Yes we can have the pleasure of working until 70+ to pay for French retiring at 62 or 64 when we rejoin. What’s not to like?

        2. Ashley
          March 25, 2023

          I is not really the retirement age it is when you can claim you pension still working or not. In essence it is another tax increase if you cheat workers out of two years of pension. Also life expectancy has declined of late too. Due to Covid and duff vaccines it seems.

          1. hefner
            March 25, 2023

            According to INED (Institut National d’Etudes Demographiques), life expectancy at birth has plateau-ed in France in the last three years at 85.3 years for women and 79.4 for men. For the UK as a whole in 2020 (ons.gov.uk, 23/09/2021 ‘National life tables’) it was at 83.1 for women and 79.3 for men. It might have decreased a bit in 2021-2022 to 82.6 and 78.6 (kingsfund.org.uk 10/08/2022 ‘What is happening to life expectancy?’).

            SJS: I don’t think Brits ever paid for French pensioners as the pension system is national and has nothing to do with the EU. Proof of the pudding being that the retirement age was at 62 in France whereas it is at 65 in Belgium, 66 in Germany and Spain, 67 in Italy and Netherlands.
            Wikipedia ‘Pensions in France’.

        3. Mickey Taking
          March 26, 2023

          at least they are only burning historic buildings rather than live sheep in lorries.

      4. mancunius
        March 25, 2023

        If obligatory VAT tax rates that cannot ever be changed and are dictated by a foreign power are for you ‘barely noticeable’, then your perceptive powers are sadly lacking.

      5. MFD
        March 25, 2023

        I do not have a passport, I never have needed one. I was a merchant seaman and had ID. That did let me travel and see there was nowhere better than home, NLH.
        Certainly not any continental country, HOME SWEET HOME.
        They can keep their tarnished ring of gold stars.

    3. Lynn Atkinson
      March 25, 2023

      Let’s ‘build our renewable energy’ with no subsidy. I’m all for that. If it can compete on a level playing field nd provide energy consistently, I’m all for it.
      As the Government reduced subsidy for solar panels, the meridian that they were viable sank south. The installation companies themselves drew the line, and would not install north of it. We’re subsidies to be removed completely, the line would coincide with Capricorn.

      1. jerry
        March 25, 2023

        @Lynn A; “If [renewable energy] can compete on a level playing field nd provide energy consistently, I’m all for it.”

        Well that’s new nuclear off the table then, nuclear has never existed without massive subsidies or at least guarantees…

        1. Lynn Atkinson
          March 25, 2023

          Nuclear needs ‘subsidies’ because the market is rigged. Anyway, if it’s more efficient to get our oil and gas, I think nuclear should be shelved until the increased price makes it viable without subsidies.
          By keeping prices down artificially (through subsidies) they actual manipulate the quantity of oil and gas that is (financially viably) obtainable. Ie the height the energy price the more oil and gas we have (at a viable price).
          We will NOT run out of oil and gas.

          1. jerry
            March 25, 2023

            @Lynn A: “I think nuclear should be shelved until the increased price makes it viable without subsidies. [..//..] We will NOT run out of oil and gas.”

            Where do you live, fantasy island, or is it the middle east?!…

      2. Ashley
        March 25, 2023

        Indeed subsidies can sometimes be justified for R&D into better technology and when it works economically then fine roll it out. But roll out of premature technology that is not economic with subsidies gives you lots of uneconomic duff tech littering the country.

        No roll out subsidies and no market rigging please. Best to use our coal, gas & oil for now and with the vast sums this saved use some of them to do sig. R&D into better nuclear, fusion and other promising areas. There is clearly no imminent climate emergency.

    4. turboterrier
      March 25, 2023

      Sakara Gold
      If you go back into the mists of time and find the article written by Christopher Booker published on 25th August 2012 in the Telegraph highlighting the very senior ex politicians and some Lords to their involvement with gigantic renewable energy projects in one shape form or another all eligible to vast subsidies from the taxpayers. I would lay a few quid on betting nothing has changed much.

      1. Ashley
        March 25, 2023

        +1

    5. jerry
      March 25, 2023

      @SG; Indeed, we need a post Brexit consensus, like we had a post war consensus, but this time in the mould of how West Germany pulled its self up by their boot laces, from a basket-case to powerhouse…

      1. mickc
        March 25, 2023

        West Germany was ably assisted by debts written off, being defended by others until 1955, favorable trading relationships with the USA, favorable PR in the USA, no “Sterling Area” problems, no empire to defend (until the UK wisely got rid of it…40 years too late…)…
        Yes…bootstrap recovery but with considerable help..

      2. Lynn Atkinson
        March 25, 2023

        They did that because we gave them honest money. We gave them much else at the very same time we surrendered to socialism and therefore poverty ourselves.

        1. jerry
          March 25, 2023

          @Lynn A; But West Germany ‘surrendered’ to socialism far more than the UK ever did, and the reunified Germany still does, they just call it social democracy (hence the SPD, Social Democratic Party of Germany).

          I’m not convinced all the immediate post war problems blamed on the 1945-51 Attlee govt would not have also occurred had Churchill won, he would have had to deal with the same shortages, inefficiencies caused by worn out machinery, the same displaced people, the same weather etc.

          As for Marshal Plan money, the UK had the largest share of that pot (W.Germany the least), and let’s not forget that Germany had to provide for war reparations. For one thing the USA did not want the UK surrendering to (true) socialism anymore than they wanted W.Germany or indeed France to.

          1. hefner
            March 26, 2023

            Thanks for that, Jerry. Contrary to what Lynn wrote it was aid by the USA not the UK.
            With the Marshall Plan the UK originally got a 50-year £3.75 bn loan at 2% and another £3 bn ‘gift’ with conditions attached regarding a balanced budget, controlled tariffs and level of currency reserves.
            Overall, looked from 50 years later (1998), the ‘gift’ amounted to $3,297 bn for the UK. Under the same conditions France got $2,296 bn, W.Germany $1,448 bn, Italy $1,204 bn, NL $1,128 bn, …

    6. Fedupsouthener
      March 25, 2023

      Might have known you’d get on the renewables religious band wagon again. The money would be better spent on SMRs and fracking which would at least ensure the country can operate 24/7. Lord Deben is quoted as saying all those that oppose wind farms are immoral. I’m proud to be called immoral but sensible.

  4. Cuibono
    March 25, 2023

    The lament of a popular orange-flavoured, chocolate-covered, sponge confection.

    Am I a cake or biscuit?
    What VAT should I attract?
    They say that VAT’s efficient
    I think it should be scrapped!

    1. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      It also depends if you’ve manufactured /selling that cake or biscuit in either NI or GB …there is no Union; we just don’t know it yet

      1. Cuibono
        March 25, 2023

        +1
        You are right!
        All very underhand and sad.

  5. Michelle
    March 25, 2023

    It is all of course Manna from Heaven for the Remain camp.
    See what Brexit has done, see how poor we are?
    It seems beyond their capabilities to note that this isn’t the end result of Brexit but the result of those in positions of power and influence following their own agenda.

    1. Beecee
      March 25, 2023

      To paraphrase Ronald Reagan – when the Country is in difficulties or even a crisis, Government is not the solution, it is the problem!

      1. jerry
        March 25, 2023

        @Beecee; Haha, so did Ronald Reagan make such a profound comment before or during his time as either California Governor or POTUS, did he become the problem or was he already the problem, and were does that leave Mrs Thatcher?!… 😛 (there is no emoji for foot-in-mouth)…

    2. BOF
      March 25, 2023

      Michelle
      Or following the agenda of others!

  6. Hugh Cameron
    March 25, 2023

    Sir John – thank you for your perseverance and phenomenal output of common sense. I wish those who have power would stop “spinning” and just do it!

  7. DOM
    March 25, 2023

    The VAT issue is indicative of so many other concerns regarding this treacherous agreement but Labour and Tory drones walk through the lobbies together grinning and crowing because they’ve managed to nobble Brexit. The agreement has laid down the foundations for the UK to become a member of the EU once more when Labour crawl back into power. That is how low the Tories have fallen. They’re skin crawling lizards

  8. Peter Gardner
    March 25, 2023

    One despairs. As hard as you work at this sort of thing Sir John, there seems to be an absolute feebleness in government at both political and civil service levels and a fear of the EU. Appeasement is the order of the day. Does the Tory party understand the point of the sovereign nation state or not? I see little sign of it.

    1. Ian B
      March 25, 2023

      @Peter Gardner +1
      They dont even believe in Government, in Managing. You have to wonder why we pay them

  9. MPC
    March 25, 2023

    Some of us have urged the use of statutory instruments to reduce the burden of EU laws on a selective basis. It’s sadly ironic that this approach has been used to railroad through the Windsor Framework, further opening the way for future binding alignment with the EU. I wish there would be a change of name as the Conservative and Unionist Party is neither anymore.

  10. Glenn Vaughan
    March 25, 2023

    Welcome to the Wonderful World of Rishi Sunak
    From his home on Fantasy Island, Rishi has been contemplating his recent triumphs:
    a) resolving the N.I. protocol with his Windsor Framework
    b) legislation to end the small boats migrant crisis
    c) as First lord of the Treasury, overseeing a budget to boost UK growth
    But please don’t spoil his day
    He’s miles away
    And after all he’s only dreaming
    So please don’t shake him
    No don’t wake him
    Leave him where he is
    He’s only sleeping

    1. Mickey Taking
      March 25, 2023

      Beatles: I’m only sleeping.
      written for the Electorate?

      When I wake up early in the morning
      Lift my head, I’m still yawning
      When I’m in the middle of a dream
      Stay in bed, float up stream (float up stream)
      Please, don’t wake me
      No, don’t shake me
      Leave me where I am
      I’m only sleeping
      Everybody seems to think I’m lazy
      I don’t mind, I think they’re crazy
      Runnin’ everywhere at such a speed
      ‘Til they find there’s no need (there’s no need)
      Please, don’t spoil my day
      I’m miles away
      And after all
      I’m only sleeping
      Keepin’ an eye on the world going by my window
      Takin’ my time.

      1. Glenn Vaughan
        March 25, 2023

        Ha Ha. Rishi seems to “revolve” every day.
        I do enjoy mickey taking even if the point of the parody is sometimes missed.

        1. Mickey Taking
          March 26, 2023

          I thought of aiming at the MPs but decided the electorate produced them after all….

  11. Richard1
    March 25, 2023

    Switzerland is much closer bound into the EU than the U.K. now is, but has no VAT, just a simple purchase tax. I’d suggest seeing whether we could have a similar system.

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      March 25, 2023

      Once you impose a tax you cannot revoke it. And once you set a higher limit you cannot reduce it. That is EU law and why we cannot remove or lower VAT.

      1. jerry
        March 25, 2023

        @Lynn A; Except Switzerland is a member of the EFTA, I do understand what you say about EU law on VAT rates etc, but the UK is no longer a member. Was it really impossible for the EU-Johnson Withdrawal Agreement not to allow GB&NI to have similar tax policy as the Swiss? After all the same cross border taxation issues exist between the Swiss and their EU25 neighbors as now exit between NI and ROI. My money is HMRC, and thus HMT, simply wanting to retain the cash-cow that is VAT, with its multiple layers of taxation and company inspection.

        1. glen cullen
          March 25, 2023

          EU/UK Withdrawal Agreement and that ‘level playing field’ clause

          1. Lynn Atkinson
            March 25, 2023

            Exactly. Once we leave the EU we can do as we like. But Johnson is and has always been a Remainer.
            Perhaps his greatest crime was misleading the electorate!

          2. jerry
            March 25, 2023

            @glen cullen; That would be the same playing level playing field as the Swiss have?

            The fact is, even within EU rules, assuming there is some legal reason the UK has to mirror EU rules, under those rules (as @hefner pointed out) VAT could be cut to 15%, specific items could have the rate cut to 5%, but that would leave a massive shortfall in HMT coffers.

    2. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      Great suggestion Richard1

  12. Old Albion
    March 25, 2023

    At a time when domestic energy costs have gone through the roof. Leading to people being frightened to use their heating system and sitting at home freezing, or in some extreme cases dying. The Gov. continues to apply VAT to our bills. The higher the bill the greater the tax take. So handing out (much needed) subsidies on one hand, whilst raking in ever more VAT on the other.
    We now know for sure it’s the Gov’s. fault for not implementing Brexit. The EU is still pulling the strings. Shameful and pathetic ………..

  13. Blazes
    March 25, 2023

    No Sir John you can’t cut VAT – so just do as you’re told – the same as the rest of us

    What did you think taking back control meant? – that you could just do as you like?

    1. hefner
      March 25, 2023

      The minimum level of VAT imposed by the EU is 15%. There are exemptions for some defined ranges of products that can only have a 5% VAT.

      On 4/01/2011 the Coalition Government increased the previous rate of 17.5% to 20%.

      If the political will was there (and the hypocrisy less prevalent) the present Government could move to 15% without the EU complaining. But in 2021/22, VAT was a £143 bn receipt in a £915 bn input part of the budget. Moving from 20% down to 15% would have roughly created a £30-35 bn hole.
      So where do the politicians cut for compensating such a loss? Please, don’t be shy, let us know.

      commonslibrary.parliament.uk ‘Tax statistics: an overview’, 16/01/2023.

      The present budget is at
      assets.publishing.service.gov.uk, Spring Budget 2023, HC1183, March 2023, 124 p.
      with the Policy decisions (including the few VAT-related bits) starting in page 82.

  14. Bloke
    March 25, 2023

    The dictionary defines tax as: a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government.
    The EU does not govern the UK.

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      March 25, 2023

      Oh yes it does! The EU governs Downing Street, ergo ….

    2. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      Didn’t our Foreign Secretary James Cleverly sign the Windsor Framework yesterday transferring control of the UK to the EU

    3. Ian B
      March 25, 2023

      @Bloke sorry they do, because the Conservative Government refuses.

      1. jerry
        March 25, 2023

        @Ian B; “because the Conservative Government refuses”

        Not quite. The current Conservative govt like all others since 1st Jan 1973, bar one, can’t even if they want to govern, because the Conservative Johnson lead govt between 24 July 2019 – 9 January 2020 refused to take back control by getting Brexit done, all they did was get Britain done!

        GB&NI have been signed up to an international treaty that is the worst of all possible options, some suggest it was with intent (to force us to rejoin), I just think it was gross ineptitude.

  15. agricola
    March 25, 2023

    It should be illegal for a do nothing or do incompetently government to cream off 20% on almost every payment we make from already taxed income. Then if you use that taxed income wisely and make a small profit from money invested it can be further taxed. Finally whatever you leave to your relatives on demise is taxed yet again. Government in the UK is the biggest scam ponzi scheme anyone could envisage. Only the very wealthy can sidestep it. Even hurricanes fail to reach the Caymen Islands.

    1. rose
      March 25, 2023

      Stamp duty on homes is the most immoral tax of all and one people don’t like to complain about for fear of exciting envy. HMG takes very full advantage of that.

      1. hefner
        March 25, 2023

        Good luck with suppressing a tax whose original was introduced in 1694. The present SDLT brought £14.3 bn to the Treasury 2021/22. How are you going to replace it?

        1. Lynn Atkinson
          March 25, 2023

          It suppresses the housing market which is not as it was in 1694. It’s in the governments interest to increase volume and therefore to reduce the tax.
          BTW £14 billion is not what it was before Johnson moved into Downing Street either. It’s a meat drop in the ocean and not worth the collection costs. So much easier to just print the money as per the new normal.

        2. jerry
          March 25, 2023

          @hefner; “[£14.3 bn] How are you going to replace it?”

          But does it need to be replaced, how much is that white elephant called HS2 costing, estimated at £87bn in 2019, the money saved from cancelling even now would more than fund the scrapping of Stamp Duty!

    2. IanT
      March 25, 2023

      It seems Angela Raynor is suggesting Labour will increase Inheritiance and Capital Gains Taxes – but there’s still time for Jeremy Hunt to pinch her ideas and hike them both before the next Election. Should be popular with anybody who owns nothing and invests nothing – a growing number of people under this Government.

    3. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      The price of petrol at my local station went up a 1p yesterday

      1. Fedupsouthener
        March 25, 2023

        Diesel is still extortionate.

        1. turboterrier
          March 25, 2023

          F U S
          And how. Somebody somewhere is making a lotta money!!!

    4. hefner
      March 25, 2023

      Not ‘whatever your leave to your relatives on demise is taxed yet again’: £325 k are IHT-free. (www.gov.uk ‘How inheritance tax works: thresholds, rules and allowances’).
      If a house is passed to children the threshold moves from £325 k to £500 k.
      And there is a Business Relief of 50% or even 100% on an estate’s business assets.

      More often than not, people are not aware of how IHT could be decreased if planned properly (and often while the person is still alive to pass onto the next generation).

  16. Lynn Atkinson
    March 25, 2023

    I understand an ex-whip is afraid that threats of violence to MPs ‘might put people off political careers’. Do MPs not understand that they do violence to us when they make it impossible to earn a living?
    After all these years of demanding the right to sack our lawmakers, and winning, Sunak has once again made Britain subservient to a foreign, aggressive, bankrupt power which wishes to plunder our treasure.
    Do all those MPs who did not vote against this not understand that the most dangerous people on earth are those with nothing to lose? Not even hope?

    1. rose
      March 25, 2023

      The BBC’s triumphant announcements this morning on how the Major government betrayed Northern Ireland, which many of us suspected, gives the impression they, the BBC, consider Unionism to be finally defeated. So confident are they that it doesn’t seeem to occur to them that their inflammatory reports may once again ignite something. Or is that what they want?

  17. Timaction
    March 25, 2023

    ………It appears the UK has accepted it needs to keep much of the VAT law framework. ……….. No. Your Government has accepted this. Not some, other Government parachuted in. YOUR GOVERNMENT. They are entirely responsible for all the high taxes, EU negotiations that have dismally failed, immigration, legal and illegal, highest taxes ever, woke everywhere, lack of school places. Think of one policy area of success…………………..quite.

    1. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      +many

    2. Lynn Atkinson
      March 25, 2023

      Cross party – did you not notice?
      The only dissenters were Tory and DUP MPs.
      Write to Starmer and tell him how much you admire him.

  18. Javelin
    March 25, 2023

    The European banking system is based on European civil law that allows judges to prioritise citizens rights over contract law. Hence we saw investors shafted after the 2007 crash and more recently with a Swiss bank.

    I would like to see the UK campaigning to have all European bond and equity issuances made in UK law so that international investors are protected.

    We could ask the Government Nudge Unit, who did such a good job scaring the public during lockdown, to come up with a campaign that targets investors.

  19. Andre
    March 25, 2023

    Some are closer to the action than others and should know what’s going on instead of putting odd questions to the plebs about whether VAT can be cut or not.

  20. BW
    March 25, 2023

    Why the talk of VAT. There is no hope anymore. When you have a twice rejected usurper who backstabbed his way into power in a second WEF, BBC coup. Who has sold the British back to the EU, lecturing the Israeli PM on “the importance of upholding democracy “. The irony is blinding. There is no hope. So any talk on VAT is pointless. Indeed voting in the locals in May will be pointless. Voting for a new government will be a waste of time. They are all the same. Absolutely paralysed
    I have no idea why Sir John remains in the Tory party. They haven’t listened to a single word he has said. Hence voting being pointless. No problem though I am sure the Israeli PM has been educated about democracy by our unelected usurper.

  21. Donna
    March 25, 2023

    The Globalists / British Establishment has decided we are not going to be allowed to operate as an independent nation. We must remain aligned to the EU so that, when the time is right, we can be taken into the “outer tier” as an Associated Nation along with Turkey, Ukraine and the EFTA nations.

    That’s what Cameron proposed to Merkel, but she rejected it. Now Macron has proposed essentially the same structure but since he thinks he’s the new Napoleon, governing by diktat, he has an “uncertain future” as French President. So the plan may be a little delayed whilst they find another EU Leader to propose it.

    The Not-a-Conservative-Party hasn’t implemented Brexit. It’s implemented what is intended to be the basis of the new structure, with NI held hostage to ensure we comply.

  22. rose
    March 25, 2023

    I would like the EU Commission tax removed from everything. It is an insidious disincentive to efficiency and enterprise.

    1. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      +many

    2. hefner
      March 25, 2023

      ‘EU Commission tax’, you’re really funny. The UK Government could decrease it from 20% to 15% if it wanted without the EU Commission batting an eyelid, but that would make a £30-35 bn hole in the Budget (20-> 15 = 25% drop, on £143 bn, the amount that VAT brings to the Treasury).

      1. Lynn Atkinson
        March 25, 2023

        You cannot reduce VAT rates from their high point. The EU controls VST law and takes a mighty cut, in fact it calculates how much tax the Government should have collected and takes its percentage of that number even if nothing like their calculated figure was collected.
        Did you not know?
        Gosh no wonder you are sweet on the EU. You have no concept of the nature of the beast.

        1. hefner
          March 25, 2023

          Since 01/01/2021 the VAT rules between the UK and the EU are the same as between the UK and non-EU RoW states.
          Do you not know? Maybe you need an update of your preconceptions.

          1. glen cullen
            March 25, 2023

            ‘level playing field’

  23. turboterrier
    March 25, 2023

    If one believes that less means more why not copy Spain?
    Every businesses no matter what size are liable to IVA (VAT) and it is payable at the end of each month. That’s where the VAT paid out can be offset against VAT revenue paid in. If the rate was lower 7.5% and there was no threshold to stay under encouraging companies to work at the same pace throughout the year knowing they would not be hit by another tax.
    It must work because many of my clients who were under the threshold chose to be VAT registered as it was easier for invoicing and every year they seem to get a refund.
    It also impacts on the lump cash in hand industry. Which indirectly brings more people into the tax system.
    The state this country is in why not try something different?

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      March 25, 2023

      Why not copy Italy and establish a MAFIA to protect the people from the State? Then nobody will pay tax – just protection.

    2. Mickey Taking
      March 26, 2023

      Had a roofer come out following up why an area on my roof still drips into the loft, even after him rebuiding a sagging valley. Poor chap felt he had to go up even in drizzle to examine topside after we searched loft to understand how rain made its way down liner to eventually fall. Lately he can’t work unless jobs are completely covered with scaffold and sheeting. Found a tiny crack in previous lead.
      He was moaning about his bills – pointing out all single man roofers with material and hiring costs will exceed the VAT threshold, so not only does he have to charge more because the weather stops so many days work, but then VAT to be added – the poor customer pays for all this.
      It really is damaging the economy and frustrating tradesmen trying to be competitive. There are always the people more recently arrived here who will offer ‘no VAT – cash’ that undermines honest tradesmen.
      Sir John is correct to want to raise the VAT threshold, and remove VAT wherever it is sensible.
      Don’t our financial decision makers live in the real world?

  24. Rhoddas
    March 25, 2023

    On an important subject we’ve not discussed for many a week.

    My suggestion to end the war is Ukraine get back crimea but let some of Russian affiliated Donbas/ luhansk go.. instigate a 20mile dmz everywhere on the Russian and belarussuan border with ukraine.. policed by un peacekeeping forces ad infinitum.

    Comments and suggestions please..

    1. Richard II
      March 25, 2023

      I don’t know, Rhoddas, but I do know this country can’t afford to keep shovelling £billions into an endless stalemate war. Where is it heading? In my opinion the Russian military and the NATO military are now on the same page, quite happy for the war to go on, so they get continuing opportunities to test out their latest kit. The political leadership are not up to ending this by diplomacy, so this war will end only when the money runs out, I’m afraid. And how much more will have wasted by that time, I wonder?

  25. glen cullen
    March 25, 2023

    Soon we’ll see a different VAT rate in NI and GB ….and there’s nothing we can do about it

  26. Sharon
    March 25, 2023

    There are, as ever, some very insightful comments on here… I do wish there was an uptick facility. I find much to agree on so many of the comments.

    1. hefner
      March 25, 2023

      I also wish there was a downtick facility, there are too many people here talking out of their b*m and not even interested in checking the information readily available on the gov.uk website.

      1. R.Grange
        March 25, 2023

        Oh yes, Hefner, the gov.uk website, the Ministry of Truth.

        If SirJohn can’t get straight answers out of the blighters when he tries with his questions week in week out, what chance their website will tell us ordinary punters anything significant or reliable?

      2. Lynn Atkinson
        March 25, 2023

        😂🤣The Govt. Website! And you believe it!
        You are lost mate.

        1. hefner
          March 25, 2023

          I’ll let you get your information from your preferred websites … Good luck, after all, you deserve it.

          PS: I know it is of no use, but ‘Foolproof: Why we fall for misinformation and how to build immunity’, 2023, S vd Linden has an interested Ch.2: ‘The motivated brain: What you want to believe’ and Ch.6 ‘Rage against the machine: Echo chambers and filter bubbles’.
          You seem to fit perfectly …

  27. Ian B
    March 25, 2023

    This Government is refusing and refusing big time to do anything that will advance the UK, its energy resilience and its economy. In the same way they are refusing to lessen ties with the unelected unrepresented bureaucrats in the EU and their political courts.

    It is about remaining under the control of whims of the unelected, in that way this so-called Conservative Government can acquiesce to the demands of the ‘blob’ and remove democracy once and for all.

    13 years in power, 80 seat majority and what do they(the Conservative Government) do cede to the unelected unaccountable and extremely expensive ‘blob’

  28. Bert Young
    March 25, 2023

    I have said many times that the EU must keep its nose out of our affairs . What we decide and how we decide it is entirely our democratic right ; of course international affairs influence our position but how we respond is up to us . There is no evidence that the Sunak Government is acting on the conditions this country faces ; the right kind of determined and responsible leadership is needed badly .

  29. Mark Thomas
    March 25, 2023

    Sir John,
    In the fine art and antique market EU import VAT has been replaced by UK import VAT.
    So no change.

    1. hefner
      March 25, 2023

      Exactly. Thanks for that, Mark. As far as I understand, the CGT and VAT rates depend very much on what the collectibles are and their age. Given the potential pitfalls that quickly changing the rates would likely introduce, it is not surprising that the Government (?) has played it safe by simply copying what existed before.
      And it is also the reason why the ‘bonfire’ of EU regulations a la JR-M is likely to take (much) longer than what he had announced as a Business Minister (or Minister for BOGE).

  30. formula57
    March 25, 2023

    I concur that “It appears the UK has accepted it needs to keep much of the VAT law framework” but not in my name it has not! Still, retaining this tiresomely complex tax when we could devise something more suitable will please those yearning to rejoin the Evil Empire eventually.

  31. Denis Cooper
    March 25, 2023

    JR, I don’t know the answer to your question, for either GB or NI, and I look forward to you finding out.

    Meanwhile I have sent a letter to the Belfast News Letter as follows:

    “MPs voted through the wrong statutory instrument last week; it should have been an order to extend the UK’s export control system to goods being carried across the land border into the Irish Republic.

    Once that better targeted way of protecting the EU Single Market from unsuitable goods had been demonstrated the government would be in a stronger position to renegotiate the Windsor Framework.

    If the DUP could persuade the government to speedily pass the necessary order under Section 12 of the Export Control Act 2002 then that would seem to be a good trade off for a return to Stormont.”

    It will still be the wrong statutory instrument on Wednesday, when the Lords will be asked to nod it through.

  32. Denis Cooper
    March 25, 2023

    Somewhat off topic, Newton Emerson writes in the Irish News today:

    https://www.irishnews.com/opinion/columnists/2023/03/25/news/newton_emerson_donaldson_needs_to_stop_the_awkward_squad_setting_the_agenda-3158221/

    “While Brexit may never be over, it has received a timely punchline. The EU is about to announce a dramatic simplification of the single market, tearing up red tape and regulation. This has become an urgent priority in order to compete with China and avoid being crushed by the vast US investment and subsidy programme President Joe Biden has enacted to compete with China.

    Deregulation was, of course, the whole point of Brexit. Unless London can cut red tape faster than Brussels, which is hardly guaranteed, Britain will become the Argentina of Europe and Northern Ireland will become the UK’s Singapore.”

    I haven’t seen that reported anywhere else.

    1. Alison Macd
      March 25, 2023

      nor I, though I have been following it. A relevant factor here is also the EU’s awful CBAM. My guess is that the UK will match it (saying how wonderful the EU’s CBAM is and how wonderful we are in replicating it, and we are all buddies).

    2. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      Don’t all governments say that they’re going to deregulate and have a bonfire on red tape ….it never happens

    3. Lynn Atkinson
      March 25, 2023

      How is the EU going to compete with anybody when they have no cheap and plentiful energy? China and India now take the gas that once powered Europe. Red tape is irrelevant at this point unless it leads to the abolition of Green wokery and the production of gas, oil and coal.
      Oh – and the new Russia China agreement, joining the biggest commodities producer with the biggest manufacturing power, includes military co-operation.
      Nuff sed😕

      1. Fedupsouthener
        March 25, 2023

        Not just China and Russia to worry about. China and Iran is a worse scenario. Iran is getting financial help from China now and Biden has fallen asleep at the wheel.

    4. Dave Andrews
      March 25, 2023

      The government is determined to turn Britain into Venezuela, let alone Argentina.

  33. a-tracy
    March 25, 2023

    John, can you tell us how much extra money the government has to spend by not paying the EU portion of VAT (wasn’t that 80%) from rest of the world imports now? How much extra did your party get in 2022?

    What has your government done about recovering the illegal (according to the EU courts) unpaid vat from Chinese exports that we were fined for last year? How are you protecting the UK now from 2023 onwards from these Chinese VAT import frauds?

  34. Derek
    March 25, 2023

    And so it continues. We are still under the thumb of debilitating EU Rules, Regulations and Laws.
    How can anyone, especially those tasked to preserve our independence, still welcome the EU intrusions into UK business? I have to ask, “What’s in it for them”? For there is nothing there for us.
    These legal overhangs, left in place post Brexit, are still inhibiting our growth and will continue to do so until we have completely left the EU behind in Brussels and mainland Europe where it belongs.
    I had hoped a brand new NI Protocol would have completely severed any control that the EU had over OUR Country.
    However, our Government has failed us as have well over 200 so-called Tory MPs in the HoC.
    This country does not have a Conservative Government. It has become so naïve and so socialist minded and have learned absolutely nothing from neither the ERM calamity of the Major years nor in 2019 when the Red Wall turned Blue for good reason. They are seemingly asking to be punished next year. Their request will be granted.

  35. Alison Macd
    March 25, 2023

    Agree on every point.
    A burning question for me is whether the UK government can now (thanks to the wondrous WF) reduce VAT on household energy, without having to exclude NI. I’ve done some quick research, and I think the answer is still no.

    1. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      I believe you’re correct

    2. a-tracy
      March 26, 2023

      Where does it say we have to have the same VAT in every region of the UK, Scotland has different tax rates? Wales has much lower council tax, they could be offered compensating tax reductions in other areas like that. That is what this stitch up must be all about keeping us aligned even though we are out. Surely if we are independent we get to set whatever taxes suit each region, we should match Southern Irelands corporation tax in Northern Ireland.

  36. BOF
    March 25, 2023

    Is the Windsor Framework destined to become known coloquially as the Windsor Frameup?

    1. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      More like the ‘Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Settlement’

  37. turboterrier
    March 25, 2023

    Why cannot we have cheaper VAT and be able to really grow our economy and increase prosperity?
    The very foundation of a successful economy has to be cheaper energy for industry, commercial, and domestic use.
    Another hard-hitting argument trying to bring common sense to this real dilemma.

    London, 23 March – A prominent physicist has warned that the UK is facing the likelihood of a failure in the electricity supply and calls for a reset of national energy policy.
    Professor Wade Allison, of the University of Oxford, says that the government is ignoring overwhelming evidence of the inadequacy of wind power and resorting to bluster rather than reasoned analysis.
    Professor Allison says:
    “Whichever way you look at it, wind power is inadequate. It is intermittent and unreliable; it is exposed and vulnerable; it is weak with a short lifespan.”
    Professor Allison’s warning is set out in a short paper entitled The Inadequacy of Wind Power (pdf), published today by the Global Warming Policy Foundation.
    https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2023/03/23/prominent-physicist-warns-that-wind-power-fails-on-every-count/

    .

  38. glen cullen
    March 25, 2023

    Cronyism = PMs allowed to nominate friends to the Lords when leaving office

  39. groundsman
    March 25, 2023

    I think at this stage a public enquiry is called for to look at where we are and how we got here and
    also who is responsible.

  40. Fedupsouthener
    March 25, 2023

    I see it’s being reported that Ovo and Octopus are reducing the price of energy but are putting up the standing charge so there is no saving. How come we always get ripped off?

    1. glen cullen
      March 25, 2023

      ”standing charge” is a con and our government does nothing to stop it

  41. mancunius
    March 25, 2023

    Sir John, with regard to cutting VAT or changing any of our current fiscal regulations, H&S laws, trade regulations or HR legislation, my bet is that the Treasury and the Civil Service will constantly claim that the new ‘Treaty’ with the EU (whose parameters appear to be a closely-guarded secret) prevents the UK from making any divergence that might endanger Labour’s wholesale adoption of the single market apparatus at a stroke.
    A lot of hot air is wasted (mainly by Remainers) on the unfeasible notion of rejoining the EU. The EU naturally does not want us as a member. It wants us a helplessly hog-tied vassal, forced to accept all its ECJ-enacted laws, but unable even to protest. The Windsor Framework is the tool by which it will obtain our servitude.
    And your party, the Tories, pushed it through. We’ll not forget that.

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