Telling the truth assists democratic debate and good government. I myself always seek accuracy when making statements or writing blogs.  In the Commons a lie is called misleading the House. It can be inadvertent, the MP made a mistake or did not know his or her statement was false. The MP is asked to correct it urgently and all is forgiven if he or she does. It can be deliberate, in which case the House may proceed with investigation and punishment.
There are a whole series of lies regularly told by governments and other MPs which are accepted because they are untruths shared by many people and political parties, or because they are essential to sustain policies and government actions that are coming under pressure.
In some cases most can see why someone has to lie. A Labour Prime Minister who had to deny he was about to devalue the pound shortly before he did so had to tell relentless markets he had no intention of devaluing to try to stave off the market forces. A Conservative Prime Minister who took us out of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism had to keep denying he would do any such thing right up to the point of collapse of the policy of staying in.
Most of the lies are statements that MPs lazily accept without proper consideration of the facts. Let us take the statement “The Bank of England is independent”. The Bank of England is 100% owned by the state. Its huge portfolio of bonds is fully guaranteed by the Treasury. It needs Chancellor permission to buy and sell the bonds. The Governor is appointed on the say so of the government. Chancellors meet Governors for regular chats to ensure monetary and fiscal policy are in step. The Governor has to submit himself to questioning by the Treasury Committees of Parliament. Parliament and government can and do regularly change the Bank’s remit and rules.
I have heard a good few Ministers from three different political parties mislead the House from time to time. Belonging to the EU meant Ministers regularly recommended and defended laws the UK had opposed or tried to modify when they had first been drafted by the EU. They never said this was a bad law we did not want, when that was true. Tomorrow I will look at why Ministers may say things that are wrong, relying on civil service advice.
June 17, 2023
Attempting to stave off market forces by lying devalues the liar.
June 17, 2023
Attempting to manipulate democracy by lying, or ‘avoidance’ of the truth, is now so common that it is virtually expected by the electorate! Nothing that certain politicians say can be believed these days. The majority of people working in, or for, the government have zero respect for the truth, democracy, or the electorate. It is well past time that a few of them were prosecuted for failure to work in the interests of the country. Giving the EU, a foreign government, 100% of the negotiating power (Benn Act Sep 19) when negotiating Brexit was the ultimate betrayal. The biggest other betrayal was Heath committing us to a foreign government via deliberately misleading information (FCO30/1048) and deliberate avoidance of democracy by refusal to offer a referendum.
June 17, 2023
The Benn Act was brought and voted through by traitors unfit for public service!
June 18, 2023
Indeed and rather a lot of such traitors still in parliament, Pure treachery – at least Tony Benn was not alive to see his son’s appalling actions trying to usurp the clearly expressed will of the public in such an immoral way.
June 18, 2023
+1
June 17, 2023
There are Watchdogs and Regulators.
Watchdogs protect consumers. Regulators control producers. Watchdogs cause producers to do something good for consumers. Regulators stop producers from doing things bad for consumers.
In Government there needs to be an understanding of who the consumers and producers are in order for the system of watchdogs and regulators to function optimally.
For example in some cases voters are the consumers and voting needs watchdogs and regulators to ensure voters receive good information and processes and politicians bad behaviour is curbed.
Another example is that politicians are the also consumers of advice and services produced by the civil service. So who are the watchdogs and regulators of the civil service?
June 17, 2023
All very true.
June 17, 2023
Watchdogs and regulators are only there to give the appearance of control. They are usually staffed by incompetents who would not be employed elsewhere.
If there are massive bribes paid to Middle Eastern countries to buy our planes nobody is held to account. If there is mismanagement by banks or financial institutions nobody is held to account. If the Post Office falsely accuses its employees of theft and they end up with a criminal conviction nobody is held to account.
If a politician or civil servant who has insider information moves to a commercial organisation before the required time lapse nobody is held to account.
June 17, 2023
You’ve got to pay commission to get a sale in the Middle East, Peter.
June 17, 2023
Peter, ++++++++
June 17, 2023
Good morning.
I think it fair to say we do not expect to be told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. But I do expect that those who administer our affairs to be both competent and to act in our interests. None of this can be said at the moment.
We also forget, to me at least, the biggest and longest lie that has been told to the British people. And that is, the EEC / EU is just a trade organisation and not a Federal State in the making. For nearly half a century successive governments have peddled that lie.
So I find it odd that those who supported much of the above and have failed to do their jobs by scrutinizing the government, particularly over the SCAMDEMIC, are now having a touch of the vapours because a man, dismissed for lying, told a few porkies over the Dispatch Box.
Pots calling a kettle black.
June 17, 2023
I donât think that is fair to say at all. In fact I think that that presumption lies at the root of all our problems. Politicians lie all the time as a result. âHow will it look?â âHow can we spin this?â âWhatâs our line on this one?â
Politicians have teams of media advisers to constantly try to present things in the best light.
Two peoples have a dispute. War is threatened. A representative – an elected politician – from each side meet to talk. They come back from the talk to report what the other side are demanding and to say what they demanded on your behalf. You think itâs okay for them to lie to you because they are in charge and think they know better and have some sort of mandate. I donât.
I think it was the completely ineffective Cameron – after 13 years of New Labourâs professionalisation of spin – that said âsunshine is the best disinfectant! Politicians lie all day every day. And you think it is okay.
June 17, 2023
Truth and Competence go together.
It’s BS that you have to be a liar to do well in life.
And people who do ‘well in life’ by lying have only done well in a certain kind of warped way. It’s not really doing well at all. They’re still LOSERS and much further down the line than those who haven’t ‘achieved’ so much but what they have achieved, they’ve achieved through telling the truth and being competent!
This is important (for starters, our kids need to know this).
June 17, 2023
I take it that you have had not much dealing with solicitors ?
June 17, 2023
I agree Ed, I wonder how many of those civil servants buying drinks and butties and organising a little thank you boss on his birthday during a pandemic, when they were all working together in that space day in day out, probably testing every day thought it was a âpartyâ which was the question he was asked. I donât call that a âpartyâ if it is there were plenty of medical staff at the sharp end having regular parties whilst telling people they couldnât see their sick relatives and theyâre the biggest liars and hypocrites of all, yet no one can call out that big lie can they. I saw people & companies on the internet every week telling people they were supplying free pizzas, drinks and lamingtons and other cakes to hospital staff. Why were they different to Borisâ team they were in even more sanitised areas with people dying all around them.
June 17, 2023
Because all these people you refer to did not have to come to PMQs or in front of the Privileges Committee and did not continue to make false declarations about the events. The reason the ex-PM is being âunder duressâ is not so much about the events themselves but about how he has subsequently handled the answers to the questions that were asked by Starmer or by the members of the Committee.
Read the report at committees.parliament.uk âMatter referred on 21 April 2022 (Conduct of Rt Hon Boris Johnson): Final reportâ, 108 pp.
And if 108 pp are too many, you might want to try to read the annexes from p.84 onwards.
June 17, 2023
Hefner, you seem to have misread a-tracy’s question. It wasn’t about Boris, it was about ‘Boris’s team’ and how they viewed getting together in their workplace for some drinks. I’ve been involved in such events (not during the Covid crisis), and it felt like team building, rather than being in what I would’ve called a ‘party’. That may be why Boris was apparently told on two separate occasions by political advisors that such events would not count as a party.
June 17, 2023
Quite right Clough, what did the staff the managers that bought the drinks and food call it? Was it e-mailed as âcome to a partyâ? It disgusts me that these people had their faces blocked out. None of them truly thought it was a âpartyâ or breaking rules or they wouldnât have been on camera would they!
Iâd rather you tell me hefner, as youâre so well up on all the minutie and I really canât be bothered to waste a minute of my time reading a group of witch finder generals report notes, if Boris didnât consider it a âpartyâ (I donât consider it a âpartyâ), what the exact question was that he is supposed to have lied in response to, if the question was âdid you attended a partyâ if it didnât include the words âhad a meeting with staff that didnât maintain a 1m rule from the guidanceââ . Then perhaps they should have been clearer with their question in the first place.
June 17, 2023
@Mark B +1
June 17, 2023
+1 Mark B
June 17, 2023
@Mark B: “And that is, the EEC / EU is just a trade organisation”
Maybe that was more wishful thinking than lying. Just like “having all the cards” in post-referendum negotiations, or the conviction that German car manufacturers would tell their government to give the UK a special deal.
June 18, 2023
PvL
No, it was a LIE !! There is a Civil Service Document that tells the UK Government that, and I quote “The people must not know what is being done to them.” I do not have the link but others here who have also read it will testify as the TRUTH of my statement.
German car manufacturers have effectively told the EU that their policy on banning ICE vehicles outright is not feasible and have caused the EU to change its policy. Had the UK Government dug its heals in I would argue they would have done the same.
June 18, 2023
Exactly do. You only have to read the Treaty of Rome to KNOW that Heath was lying and indeed he boasted of lying when asked later in life – after he believed we were well and truly trussed.
June 18, 2023
@Mark B: âThe people must not know what is being done to them.â Taking you at your word that would be really shocking! This was an advice in the seventies?
June 18, 2023
@Mark B: âThe people must not know what is being done to them.â Taking you at your word that would be really shocking! This was an advice in the seventies?
But also see Hefner’s reaction below.
June 17, 2023
Mushrooms Mark. Kept in the dark and fed on horse shit.
June 17, 2023
Sorry, the point youâre repeating regularly âEEC/EU is just a trade organisationâ is ridiculous. As already pointed out multiple times on this blog the original Treaty of Rome (1957) was âaiming at fostering economic integration among its member statesâ. The original treaty (176 pp) is available on eur-lex.europa.eu in Dutch, French, German, Italian, not English as the UK was not interested.
Art.2 was clear: âThe community has for mission, through a common market and the gradual rapprochement of the economic policies of the Member States, to promote the harmonious development of the economic activities in the whole of the Community, a continuous and balanced expansion, an increased stability, an accelerated rise in the standard of living, and closer relationships between the Communityâs Member Statesâ.
And then Art.3 details 11 areas (a to k) where these principles should apply, in particular
f/ setting up a regime such that competition will not be biased;
g/ setting up procedures to coordinate the economic policies of the Member States;
j/ creating a European Investment Bank;
(sorry, my translation from German).
Obviously most British people could not care less about all that in 1957-1958. However it could have been hoped that when the UK joined the EEC in 1973 more people might have been interested. Unfortunately it was not the case apart from a minuscule fraction of politicians and economists.
It is only with the announcement of a referendum by PM Cameron in February 2016 that, I guess, most of the people here started to get interested.
To have Mark B going on with his usual vociferations about/against the EU is, I guess (again), simply showing that he is a rather new convert to the EU-bashing religion, but unlikely to have much more than 7 years of thinking/understanding about what the EEC/EU has been since 01/01/1958.
If he had been sooooo interested in all things European he might have realised two-three-four decades ago that the EEC/EU had always been a project aiming at closer integration as that has been present in all their documents since the beginning of the EEC.
Funnily, the less knowledgeable usually shout the loudest ⊠and by so doing show how vacuous they are.
Reply A rare point of agreement. I voted to leave the EEC in 1975 because the Treaty of Rome made it clear they wanted a wider Union. Unfortunately most of the Remain politicians lied to us by saying we were in a common market with no loss of sovereignty. So few people read the Treaty they endorsed.
June 17, 2023
It is high time then that this BoE Governor was removed by the government . He has a woeful track record and is costing us dear by his ineptitude
June 17, 2023
But the government appointed him! They canât remove him because they open themselves up to blame. So they all maintain the LIE that he is doing a good job and is independent anyway.
âMinister, we need to get rid of the governor. Heâs complete screwed things up,â
âWe canât do that! How would it look if we did that?!â
June 17, 2023
Greed David + one!
June 17, 2023
DP – He was installed by the Globalist UK Establishment. All part of THEIR plan.
June 17, 2023
Hi sir john
When the governments or governments in waiting tell the tax payers
what they are going to do, or even promise what they are going to do, But then do the opposite or don’t do what they have said the were going to do
Is that blanten lies or miss leading the public and parliament
So is the prime minister miss leading the country and parliament or telling LIES
Saying repeatedly he is going to stop the boats crossing the channel but He actually increasing and encouraging them by sending taxis (border force) out to pick them up assisting the people smugglers
Is that lies or miss leading?
Thank you for you articles
George
June 17, 2023
Best article to date.
June 17, 2023
I wonder when someone will own up about Net Zero, its true cost, and implications for the population.
I wonder when someone will own up about immigration, its true cost, and the implications for the population.
I wonder when someone will own up about the true long term cost and efficiency of government department staff working from home.
June 17, 2023
+1
June 17, 2023
A council has trialled a 4 day working week for three months for some staff and have decided to extend it to 12 months because productivity did not drop.
Sounds to me that they are employing 20% too many staff.
June 17, 2023
Wrong, if people only worked four days instead of five and produced the same quantity of âwhatever they were producing beforeâ, it is likely that productivity, contrary to what you say, not only did not drop but has increased.
I do not know where you got your information from, but the report from the South Cambridge Council (scambs.gov.uk, 15/05/2023 âFour-day week trial extension after independent analysis shows services maintained – and some improvedâ) says exactly that:
– the Council wage bill decreased by ÂŁ300,000 by limiting the need for agency staff,
– the existing staff was more likely to stay with the SCC under the 4-day week instead of moving to another employer (ie, improved retention of staff),
– 100% of the workload had been done over a 4-day week,
– nine out of 16 areas showed substantial improvement, seven remained the same or showed a slight decline (but not falling to any concerning level).
June 17, 2023
productivity ? – hilarious.
June 18, 2023
If working better got them a day off, why wouldn’t they ‘raise productivity’?
Possibly previous working not efficient enough?
June 18, 2023
I have read reports saying productivity DID suffer, and those facts were known before they extended the ‘trial’ period. It doesn’t look much like a ‘trial’ to me, assuming the reports are correct. It’s a perk. Councils work for themselves and their staff, not the people who pay them. Don’t they all bleat poverty, all of the time?
June 18, 2023
What report(s)? How is it possible that on this blog most people are unable to quote a source. Result: most contributors report âhear sayâ âI have readâ. Why are you so shy to tell where you get your info from?
June 17, 2023
Alan, I think some while ago the Treasury was asked to put a cost on the policy to achieve Net Zero, and I believe that the Treasury advised it couldn’t do so, too many variables and unknowns. But the Maidenhead assistant librarian went ahead with the bill anyway.
Bunter accepted it to keep the home boss happy.
Is it any surprise we’re in such a mess….
June 17, 2023
For what it is worth, Hammond costed it at ÂŁ3 trillion.
June 17, 2023
Berkshire Alan
+1
June 17, 2023
The Bank of England is âindependentâ may be true in speech, but the speech marks in the written words reveal where the deception lies.
June 17, 2023
Maybe the measure of a lie depends on its consequences and how people react to being lied to.
Nobody should be horribly upset or accusatory about a âlieâ readily acknowledged as a genuine mistake and put right to whatever extent possible.
Then there are so-called âwhite liesâ designed to protect but which involve a huge responsibility for the teller.
The worst sort of lie surely is one that has huge consequences for those lied to and which in some way directly benefits the teller?
And some people are just really, really skilled in the art of lying and turning it to their advantage!
(Home by Christmas)
( we could be annihilated in 45minutes)
(we just need to âflatten the curveâ)
June 17, 2023
Cuibono
The first and the third on your list are, I would argue, opportunistic arguments than outright lies as there is no evidence to the contrary. ie There is no way to know whether or not the war will be over by Christmas or if a curve (I think he used sombrero) can be flattened. The second is an outright lie in my opinion as it was a statement a) of fact, and b) over the Dispatch Box. The lie also referenced information that was not considered reliable plus, anyone who new the effectiveness of a SCUD Missile knew it was no more accurate than a German V2. ie Good at hitting cities, not so good at towns and villages let a lone an air base.
Doubt Lord Harriet of Harman will want to dig up those old bones though ?
June 17, 2023
WW1
Weapons of mass destruction
Covid
In all cases governments lied relentlessly via newspapers and then radio, TV etc. about the truth of the situations.
Lloyd George 1917 âIf people really knew [the truth], the war would be stopped tomorrow. But of course they donât know, and canât know.â
And things are not getting any better.
June 17, 2023
Just saw JRâs tweet re electricity.
I understand⊠and I may well be totally wrong that when our landlines are snatched from us our only telephones will rely on electricity.
Is that really a good idea?
June 18, 2023
Get Fibre, ditch the mobile.
June 18, 2023
Some of us still don’t get a mobile signal in this third world country. We rely on landlines. If we rely on the internet, what happens in a power cut, which happen even now and will become normal when we rely on renewables? The landline always works. Relying on the internet is as bad as relying on the wind for power – it will blow up one day, especially if Putin cuts the sea cables.
June 17, 2023
Truth is like love. It can hurt, cause endless pain, leave scars. With out it there is no trust and respect.
Human weakness degree’s that so often we resort to lies and half truths with no consideration on the consequences which can result in the worse case scenario all one’s credibility is damaged forever.
June 17, 2023
All politicians lie to us just to get our vote, but at the end of the day itâs been a collective joint effort by the civil service and remoaner MPs to discredit any serving MP especially Mr Johnson who voted Brexit to get them out, bring on the General Election so the 17million who vote Brexit can have there say on who they want in Parliament and not left to the back stabbing MPs or the labour loving civil service
June 17, 2023
But then, basically, we live in a culture of, an era of lies.
And most of us on here were probably brought up in a time when lying was very much frowned on.
We knew that 2+2=4, that we need CO2 to live and that GB abolished slavery.
We had instruments at school in the quad to show that weather constantly changes.
We were taught âThe Facts of Lifeâ.
These truths were reaffirmed and echoed in our daily lives.
Glaciers flow downwards and polar bears fish from icebergs.
We donât appreciate being lied to!
June 17, 2023
Every MP who fails or refuses to state that a woman is an adult human female is lying to us.
I estimate that’s around 630 of them.
June 17, 2023
+1
June 17, 2023
+1 Donna.
June 17, 2023
Cuibono
+1
June 17, 2023
I agreed with what you are saying re ‘White lies’ and the avoidance of truth telling to comfort people or give them hope( although I am not sure whether I would be a party to this) but I was also amazed about you curt remarks re an accusation of fantasy. The world order is changing , this is reality, not a fairy tale .All the western countries are now more cosmopolitan then they have ever been and lives generally are rapidly changing . Is not acknowledging this a lie to ones self?
June 17, 2023
i.e your
June 17, 2023
George Orwell had it right:
The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became the truth.
June 17, 2023
I agreed with what you are saying re ‘White lies’ and the avoidance of truth telling to comfort people or give them hope( although I am not sure whether I would be a party to this) but I was also amazed about you curt remarks re an accusation of fantasy. The world order is changing , this is reality, not a fairy tale .All the western countries are now more cosmopolitan then they have ever been and lives generally are rapidly changing . Is not acknowledging this a lie to ones self?
June 17, 2023
Re writing history and Orwell . What is written and has been written cannot be undone , but if what was written is a lie and instead of changing history we are now telling the truth. I am interested in a TV programme where people who have been executed in the past, usually for an accusation and charge of murder, have their cases reheard, with a council for prosecution , defence and a judge. Pointedly, the same evidence for conviction is reused and scrutinised and it is more likely that the same judgement will given . There have been a few instances where the defence has taken a historical stance and has looked at perceptions in this light. I have found that there are certain temporal related biases which may have swayed the judgement at that time and a mindset of repetition by the prosecution and judge has taken precedence.
June 17, 2023
That is just what I have been saying for quite some time
So you are finally admitting it, better late than never
June 17, 2023
But if we are talking about poor, utterly charming Boris then we know why the faux oh-so-morally-outraged knives are out for himâŠ
And it ainât about lying over âcovidâ.
Remainers etc. do not want him back I imagine.
AND PRESUMABLY THE TRUTH, ALL ALONG, WAS WRIT LARGE FOR ANYONE WHO CARED TO SIT UP AND TAKE NOTICE?
How dare they want to deny him his honours?
June 17, 2023
+1 Cuibono
They don’t want him back because he was always able to rally huge support for Brexit, even though his implementation of Brexit was flawed to non existant.
June 17, 2023
+++
Spot on!
June 17, 2023
Well this is a subject long awaiting discussion here.
I’d say that the level of understanding of modern complex issues amongst MPs is below that necessary for Parliament to function in an honest and straightforward way. Just looking at the bond issues you’ve discussed recently, how many understand the impact of this merry-go-round which is costing the taxpayer so much?
We have MPs who seem to be selected more on a quota basis than on life experience and qualifications, and any experience they have isn’t often in business or areas requiring numeracy (or often literacy).
So rather than understanding the issues it’s too easy for them to parrot the lines of better educated but lefty civil servants, academics, governors etc.
It’s the Tory Party I’m talking about here.
June 17, 2023
The self righteous liberal-leftie cohorts in Parliament really turn my stomach.
When I hear the vacuuous comments from Shadow ministers, including Starmer and the Shadow Home Secretary, I have to turn the sound down. They may not actually be lying but, take the subject of stopping illegal migration across the Channel, they know only too well that when they suggest a Labour government could solve the problem with even more negotiations with Macron or Brussels they know what they are saying is completely untrue. They might just as well be lying, and what they are saying most definitely amounts to misleading parliament and the people.
The strokes pulled by the Lib Dims in by-elections are well known and infamous, but nothing is ever done about any of it.
Boris may, or may not, have told half truths or even a lie or two, but the make up of the committee that condemned him and hounded him out of the Commons would not have stood up in a magistrates court, such was the degree of bias displayed by Harmon. The only person who comes out with any credit is Chris Bryant for having recused himself. Harmon and at least two others on the committee should have followed his example.
Now we are told Boris broke the ministerial code by not seeking approval for his contract with the Daily Mail. If I had been Boris, and after his recent treatment, I would have ignored the requirement as well.
A lucrative career in journalism and the media awaits him and, I have no doubt he will be warmly welcomed in the USA, across Eastern Europe, and not least in Ukraine. Remember, Boris also qualifies as a candidate for President of the USA. He would certainly be a better prospect than the two likely runners in 2024.
One can only imagine Starmer or Sunak having to greet him on the tarmac beside Air Force One or on the steps of No 10 !
What a thought !
June 17, 2023
Mr Johnson renounced his US citizenship on 08/02/2017 ⊠no potential career as PotUS for him.
June 17, 2023
If I were him, I would ask for it back !
June 18, 2023
Didnât want the worldwide US taxation.
June 17, 2023
Our entire system of government is a lie. The Establishment claims this country is a democracy. It isn’t.
The House of Frauds is unelected and unrepresentative of the people. Following Blair’s “reforms” it is increasingly being politicised and increasingly seeks to constrain the elected chamber.
The House of Commons, elected under a stitched-up FPTP system, only represents the votes of around a third of the electorate – those who still bother to vote which was only 67% in 2019. So it actually represents the votes of about a quarter of those eligible to vote.
The Manifesto they were elected to deliver can, and usually is, ditched the minute the crosses are registered.
The Quangocracy Sir John regularly complains about creates a great deal of our laws/regulations and are insulated from democratic control, as is the Civil Service.
Once, every five years, the people get to vote for this farce which the Establishment calls a Democracy when it has ensured it is no such thing.
June 17, 2023
@Donna. Spot on. Those of us who can see it are well and truly fed up.
June 17, 2023
At best, the stitched-up so-called democracy they’ve created gives those in power an indication of majority opinion. But as we’ve seen in the last decade or so, that majority opinion is completely ignored when it doesn’t suit the Globalist-Socialist “elite.”
And the reason they can ignore it is because they have made themselves electorally untouchable.
June 17, 2023
Donna +1
June 17, 2023
Donna, ++++++
There is a world of regulation and control which gives an illusion of integrity and order, like the regularity of the world of the ant, or the exquisite order of an atom and its particles. Such is the case even when the ants and atoms are functioning in a dung heap.
Having just read Kathy Gyngell on the topic of American inequality in face of the law itâs clear to see that the order and regulation is being used in a thoroughly biased way.
BBC Verify appears to enjoy an unchallenged role in what it wishes to be and do. This is intolerable.
Donna, DOM, LL, and many other contributors, I salute you and pray that your clarity of view will someday prevail over the obfuscation and fog which over regulation and our âdeep stateâ exercise against us.
June 17, 2023
+1 Donna
Our whole system needs to be dismantled and re built, but not in the style of Marxist K Schwab and the WEF.
June 17, 2023
Of course in modern political discourse the word âlieâ is often used to mean âsomething I disagree withâ. We saw many examples of this in the Brexit debate. Claims that Brexit would bring numerous and widespread economic benefits were described as âliesâ. Admittedly those benefits have been thin on the ground, but the people who made those claims believed them to be true, so they were not lies.
Mark Carney has said inflation is due to Brexit, just as he predicted. Is this a âlieâ? I donât think so, itâs what he thinks. I hope Sir John will find time in a blog to address Mr Carneyâs claims, and perhaps to review the forecasts mr carney did make (such as a collapse in house prices), and perhaps clarify the contribution made by mr Carneyâs governorship of the BoE to the current inflation.
June 17, 2023
National sovereignty trumps all things even economic prosperity. Ask any American and they’ll concur with this simple statement. It seems the Remainer snakes find national sovereignty utterly abhorrent but the Remain position has always been authoritarian and undemocratic
June 17, 2023
I do not think that is a tone likely to win majority support.
June 17, 2023
It is only a lie if you know it is untrue. If he is not lying, then he is ignorant and it is well known, as stated by our kind host, that the then Chancellor of the Exchequer signed off on the mass QE during the pandemic is responsible for the inflation.
If not, then all that our kind host has written is untrue and therefore a lie.
I shall leave you to decide who is telling us the truth over inflation.
June 17, 2023
What does it profit a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul? Someone should put that to Steve Baker regarding his explicit support for the Windsor Framework.
June 17, 2023
Luke 15:7 âThere will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentanceâ.
June 17, 2023
Well, Hefner, there seem to be some very (self-)righteous people on the Parliamentary Privileges Committee, and not much to rejoice about.
June 17, 2023
I can’t help wondering, Sir John : If telling the truth and not misleading Parliament are so important, why can Ministers not give a straight and honest answer to your Parliamentary questions?
June 17, 2023
I always have supposed it is because answers that were “straight and honest” risk revealing Ministerial cluelessness, incompetence or error. Obfuscatory waffle by contrast is not always easily shown to be untrue or misleading.
June 17, 2023
‘Hedge fund manager Crispin Odey â contributed ÂŁ14.9m out of the total ÂŁ24.1m in donations and loans given to the leave campaigns in the five months leading up to the referendum.’
Remainer forces are absolutely determined to smash any form of Brexit support from both its intellectual, political and financial backers including political assassination, Stalinist cancellation using unfounded allegations or financial targeting
Tory Remainer parasites are quite willing to destroy their own party’s fortunes by removing Johnson and allow Europhile Labour the next election if it takes the UK back into the EU
We are seeing nothing less than a coup using attacks on patriotism, national pride or nationalism as the left call it, lies, poison, allegation and evil directed at Brexit types
June 17, 2023
Quite right, Dom. The media never tell us which side the CBI and Oxfam were on.
June 17, 2023
Before the referendum it was clear that the CBI (not all its members) was on the remain side
(theguardian.com, 15/03/2016 âThe CBI: David Cameronâs unwavering ally in EU referendumâ).
and same address, same date âCBI member survey reveals huge support for remaining in EUâ.
As for Oxfam, I find the question rather strange. Why should O have been one side or the other? They are a charity, not a business pressure group.
June 17, 2023
Not for the first time you have missed the point. We are talking about improper behaviour being attached to Brexit but not Remain.
June 18, 2023
Some would argue, myself included, that they are more a business than a charity these days.
I have long argued both here and elsewhere that we need to raise the benchmark by which an organisation can receive charity status.
June 18, 2023
Hefner, Oxfam is a charity sporting the slogan ‘No human is illegal’, i.e. it opposes government policy and the will of the majority of the British people to bring illegal migration under control. That was a key factor in Brexit, if you recall.
June 17, 2023
Funny how they found someone to make allegations against him on events that were some time ago, giving investors and the like to withdraw their money and bring him down.
June 17, 2023
Iâd also like to know how often Civil Servants and those in charge of Quangos including the CCC lie or mislead Ministers?
June 17, 2023
The biggest lies are those of ommission, epitomised by some of the answers from ministers(scribes), you get to your questions. Then there are the lies of not answering questions at PMQs and others in Parliament. Possibly the most blatant of all are pre-election manifestoes, which compete with the best of fiction. Finally if one enters politics with a set of basic convictions, in a party that reflects those convictions, but finds over time that said party moves away from their base credo, you have choices. Stay and hope to realign the party or leave and stay true to what you believe. Staying can be the ultimate lie but told to yourself by yourself, better described as delusion.
Reply I do not lie to myself or anyone else. I promised to serve as a Conservative MP, and to speak for the policies and values I set out in my election address. That is exactly what I am doing. I did not promise my party would do all I want.
June 17, 2023
@ Reply “I did not promise my party would do all I want.” – but it would be a very good thing indeed if your party were to promise that.
June 17, 2023
Reply to reply,
You are undoutedly a real Conservative MP. However the Conservative party you joined in good faith and the credo you believed in has changed beyond recognition. I have in the recent past called it conservative but in reality I should have called it social democrat at best. You keep promoting very sensible ways to govern our country, we largely agree with you, but government ignores you. The only people who like our government are the opposition in Parliament. First their policies are largely in harmony and second they have so alienated the electorate that they will be the reason that Labour return to power. They have disenfranchised Conservatives in the country. The only Conservative party left is Reform. That is why I think you are kidding yourself by staying on the bus.
June 17, 2023
Canât you be deluding yourself, agricola? Have you seen any list of potential Reform UK candidates for the coming GE?
According to Richard Tice on 04/01/2023, the Reform UK party already had 600 candidates and was planning to have a full roster with 650 candidates for the GE.
I may be naive but if the party had so many good candidates, we could have expected a few to gain seats in the local elections. After all some experience as a local councillor cannot hurt a prospective MP candidate, can it?
And what did we get? Out of 8,063 possible such seats, six were taken by Reform UK, all in Derby, and increasing its total there by two.
I donât know what you think but to me such result doesnât augur particularly well for Reform UK at the General Election. One MP in Derby?
June 17, 2023
According to social media:
“In the Commons on December 7, 2021, Labour MP Karl Turner asked the then-Chancellor Rishi Sunak a very specific question:
âThe Chancellor was evasive when interviewed by the media last week, but we need a clear answer on this very important point because many people across the country made great personal sacrifices during the lockdown. So will he categorically deny in the House that he or any of his officials or Spads attended any of the Downing Street Christmas parties on 27 November or 18 December last year?â
Rishi gave a broad categorical answer:
âNo, I did not attend any parties.â
Four months later, in April 2022, Rishi paid a Fixed Penalty Notice fine for attending the famous Downing Street birthday party with cake for Boris. As far as Guido can see that answer Rishi gave to Karl Turner does not fit the fact of his fine for attending a party. Guido canât recall Rishi correcting the record. Or does it not matter when this PM misleads the house over the same party?”
June 17, 2023
His answer was a ‘Double-Negative’
đ
June 17, 2023
Well the truth is oldwulf the meeting in the room to say happy birthday wasnât âa partyâ in many peopleâs eyes. It just feels like a big set up to me. Did Boris buy the cakes, drinks and sandwiches and send out a âpartyâ invite? Did Sunak? And I canât stand the man but walking in a room to say happy blimin birthday isnât a PARTY âso if they felt it wasnât a âpartyâ why was anyone misled, that was their truth. If the question was âdid you have a birthday meeting and beach the 1m-2m ruleâ, if they asked âdid you eat together in no.10 and breach the 1m ruleâ and he said no we didnât that would be a lieâ. Otherwise every single tik toking group of nurses, every single hospital taking in free food need their boss sacking too. Iâve had enough of this âliar, liar, your pants are on fireâ behaviour to be honest.
Anyone that thought they were risking their lives working together in offices, shops and essential businesses like bakeries took what they thought were big risks to their personal health, whilst friends and family were often at home in the initial two months of this disease, we werenât getting tested at the time, I bet no.10 staff were! We didnât get any compensation for that nor did our staff so to call people out for toasting a birthday together is frankly just insulting. We were told NHS staff had to do it to keep up morale, what about everyoneâs elseâs morale.
If this is all the little minded politicians have to concentrate on at the moment then weâre all screwed!
Starmer and Rayner the biggest hypocrites of all, these big finger pointers, just take a real big look at yourself in the mirror especially you Mr Jenkins.
June 17, 2023
I don’t care about his FPN. Neither Boris nor he should have incurred an FPN, through the post, 2 years after an occasion which was not a party, but a short lunch break at work. I do care bout the Windsor Framework and the way it appeared, apparently out of the blue, piles of dense, French style EU legalese being passed off to the political and media world as a solution to the NIP, when it was actually the cementing of the EU’s annexation of N Ireland, in such a way that the Mainland went on paying – which was the only way the South were going to accept it.
June 17, 2023
Rose, the fact that the politicians think this is BIG deal is just so pathetic as to be unbelievable. The fact the public now seeks to blame Boris for them not seeing loved ones in hospital, whilst the tik-tok nurses, their unions, the Labour Party, uncle tom cobbly and all insisted no visitors in hospitals to protect the working healthcare staff. Point the finger at the right people on that one folks, Boris was signing off on what 100% of the NHS demanded.
Invading a country telling people there were weapons of mass destruction, now thatâs a whopper. But having a few butties laid out on a workplace table with drinks and a cake and people toasting happy birthday colleague, sorry youâre having to work on your birthday but have a good one mate. If thats a âPartyâ in the true sense of the word âpartyâ a gathering with music and entertainment and revelry then Jenkins and his gang havenât lived.
Most people in a workplace donât have their home connected in the building and their wife living above them. Carry was often sited as irresponsible during this period but her busy husband hardly should be called out for not babysitting her sheâs a grown woman.
June 17, 2023
John Major just paid Mrs Thatcher a great compliment. That she was only brutal with people who could fight back.
Essentially, when we really respect someone we’re not afraid to challenge them (and this also demonstrates that Mrs Thatcher was NOT a bully).
People who don’t challenge others are either flatterers (yuck) or else they don’t think the other person is strong enough to be challenged (fair enough).
So to challenge another person (whilst also showing them encouragement etc) is a great and genuine way of showing respect!
June 17, 2023
Not forgetting the lie that has become the 2019 Manifesto.
June 17, 2023
Lie, misnomer, ‘Terminological inexactitude’: we have them all in the list of examples you give, and clearly the latter two anyway, are part and parcel of the process of debate and persuasion that is the purpose of Parliamentary life. There is, however, a very grey boundary between the first, a straight lie with the intention of misleading, about something one has done or not done, and the second two. The question is, is it still a lie if, as seems to be the case with so many MPs, you do not know the difference between truth and falsehood?
June 17, 2023
Mrs Thatcher was only ‘brutal’ to those who could stand up to her.
There is something really endearing about people who are strong but NOT bullies (Mrs Thatcher was strong but not a bully).
The same goes for marriage. Women LOVE a man who stands up to her / challenges her in the right way (it actually, literally, s-xually turns her on .. as well as making her fall in love more with the man overall even more). But a woman obviously hates it when a man tries to control her / bully her or, goes the other way, puts her on a pedestal / is a wimp).
June 17, 2023
In the instant case, that of Boris Johnson the problem has arisen through radically different interpretations of possibly ambiguous regulations Parliament itself has passed. Whether those regulations were broken at 10, Downing Street (a matter of supposed fact) has fundamentally become a matter of which interpretation one adopts. The question is whether normal work events (e.g. leaving parties) were allowed within the scope of the work of essential workers. The Committee (whose members were not engaged with actually managing a workforce) said no. Boris Johnson said yes (In Metro yesterday he was quoted as stating-‘I believed correctly these events were reasonably necessary for work purposes. We were managing a pandemic. We had hundreds of staff engaged in what was sometimes a round-the-clock struggle against Covid. Their morale mattered for that fight. It was important for me to thank them’). I have always agreed (as I stated in previous Comments here) with Boris Johnson’s interpretation rather than the Committee’s interpretation (and I don’t agree with the emotive view of relatives of people who died that most workplaces were equivalent locations to hospitals or homes for the physically vulnerable).
The Committee also appeared not to realise that as it was considering serious penalties rather than a mere dispute between two parties the standard of proof should have been ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ rather than ‘a balance of probabilities’. It seems clear Committee members were also motivated by personal or political prejudice against Boris Johnson. Nor should it be within the scope of democracy to consider it a contempt of Parliament to disagree with a Parliamentary Committee and to point out its flawed thinking whether in logical analysis or in populist language (kangaroo court) which many think sums up the position.
June 17, 2023
So someone is invited to a room, door opened, drinking glass offered to visitor.
The scene is of numerous people holding drinks, amiably chatting happily, they turn to the visitor and raise glasses.
The visitor raises glass in appreciation.
Later the visitor says it was not a party, and didn’t believe it to be a party.
Lie, a matter of judgement, a true belief? What is it?
June 17, 2023
Depends on how you define “a party” and obviously different people have different definitions.
June 17, 2023
Well it was a gathering, a meeting would not have festive drinks, but they might have water, the visitor joined a gathering which was forbidden. Did the visitor unwittingly join a meeting, a gathering or party which were forbidden.
So, did the visitor turn and say ‘we should not be together like this’?
June 17, 2023
âWine time Fridayâ meetings were only cancelled after May 2022 after Sue Gray mentioned them. (itv.com, 26/05/2022 âWine Time Fridays banned in Downing Street as Boris Johnsonâs spokesman apologises for party denialsâ).
gov.uk, 25/05/2022 âFindings of the Second Permanent Secretaryâs investigation into alleged gatherings on government premises during Covid restrictions: Final reportâ, 60 pp.
June 17, 2023
A party is normally a fun occasion not at work and to which outsiders are invited.
June 17, 2023
âI have heard a good few Ministers from three different political parties mislead the House from time to time.â
This is occurring all the time as most Ministers have insufficient knowledge of their brief and are relying on Civil Servants.
This is as a result of our elected representatives in Parliament following the EU and allowing our unelected and un-removable bureaucrats, namely the Civil Service, the quangos, the regulators and institutions etc, to run our country who are now demonstrating the truth of Robert Conquestâs second and third laws of politics.
June 17, 2023
Really OR? the mess in Parliament is because of the EU?
Donât you think that even if this had been the case, seven years would not have been enough for successive governments to correct this state of affairs?
And beside Robert Conquest, what can you reference?
June 20, 2023
hefner, the first few years they were trying to deal with Brown’s 2008 bust remember. The bank rescue package cost ÂŁ1.9 billion to UK taxpayers. It led to the deepest UK recession since WWII. Ten years later investors were still learning lessons from this crisis. Brown rewarded one of the biggest failures of that Era Fred Goodwin and others who slunk away with their personal wealth. All happened whilst in the EU! In the States forbes said their domestic product declined by 4.3%.
You should be pleased that since Brexit in spite of Sunak and now Hunt “the UK economy is expected to avoid a recession and maintain positive growth in 2023.” It seems there is work at play to reverse that in order to fulfil people like your Brexit predictions.
June 20, 2023
Apologies I cut a sentence from wiki in edit.
At Oct 2021, the OBR said the cost of three bank interventions cost ÂŁ33 billion, comprising a loss of ÂŁ35.5 billion on the NatWest rescue, offset by some net gains elsewhere.
I have also discovered this from UK Parliament: “From September 2007 to December 2009, the then Labour Government made a number of interventions to support the banking sector generally and several banks specifically. It injected ÂŁ137 billion of public money in loans and capital to stabilise the financial system, most of which has been recouped over the years.8 Oct 2018”
June 17, 2023
Its actually terrifying that Russia and media want this country to be ungovernable. What happened at number 10 should never have been disclosed thats a massive security breach. The focus on whether someone ate cake with work colleagues or not is trivial and absurd. There are real issues to consider. Near me we already have a hosepipe ban yet they are adding massive new housing estates. A lack of joined up thinking on serious matters while media pushed egotists focus on cake and vendettas. Its all giving people a disgust of Parliament.
June 18, 2023
Quotes
âIs that democracy or what? What will critics of this process say if and when they spit on Brexit and hold more referendums until such time as somebody is not unhappy. What then would a referendum be for?â
âTrump won – this is an obvious fact and no one disputes this, but they donât want to recognize the victory. This is clearly disrespectful towards voters,â he said.
Then reflect on the danger within and outside which are maintaining this war and not resolutions.
June 17, 2023
Good morning Sir John
âThe Bank of England is 100% owned by the stateâ ⊠and so on
Our 2 Chancellors are 100% in charge of managing the BoE, when added to the rampant inflation they have caused through their punishment taxes. It is these 2 Guys that we empowered and pay for that are needlessly destroying the Country.
A strong resilient self-reliant âeconomyâ has been in the âgiftâ of the Conservative Government for the last 13years, they have chosen maliciously to refuse to manage.
June 17, 2023
I hope you are going to vote against this parliamentary witch hunt.
June 17, 2023
âMost of the lies are statements that MPs lazily accept without proper consideration of the facts.â
The biggest lie accepted by lazy MPs is that CAGW exists and that we need to implement Net Zero and destroy the countryâs economy in order to eliminate our 1% contribution to global anthropogenic CO2 emissions whilst the non-Western world just laughs at us.
The Marxists are using a false climate change narrative to keep us under control. Itâs nothing new. In the past our rulers kept us under control by commanding us to appease the gods in order to control the weather and ensure the sun shone and rains came on time.
Now we have to impoverish ourselves in order to appease the Marxists and their useful idiot MP followers to save the planet.
June 17, 2023
There are many different scenarios that cause different inexactitudes to be put into play. As you say Sir John, there are equally many instance while it is not honest or right, they can after the event have some justification.
Statements MPâs in Parliament that just parrot factional folk law can always be challenged. Some in parliament have got wound up about BJâs so called misleading them, as someone not involved in that den of inequity it means nothing to me. But when someone at the head of the UK legislator says in public they had no knowledge of the law they created, you have to question their ability to function in such a position.
The lies that should concern us all are those used âjustâ gain power and get elected as MP, when as soon as that position is gained they ditch completely. Vote for the Conservative Party âGet Brixit Doneâ still waiting and it is clear there was never any intention to carry through what they were empowered to do.
Some, me included, blame the collective âBlobâ for the ills that beset this nation. But step back a moment, the Conservative Government is the sole manager of every entity that we call the âBlobâ. Lets never forget the current âlieâ still in motion is the people of the UK Voted for the Conservative Party to select a Conservative Government. CCH has denied the voter that option. We have a Socialist Government because CCH decided to ignore the Conservative Party and manipulate the situation.
That begs the question how can the electorate be asked by the Conservative Party to vote their candidates on a Conservative ticket knowing full well they the Party has nothing to do with what the CCH chooses to do and by what polices the end result may be. Surely that is a big lie the people of the UK shouldnât countenance.
June 17, 2023
I am totally dismayed that you appear to be condoning the telling of lies when it comes to Governments âprotectingâ Policies. There is no place for ever telling lies, especially elected Politicians to the Public; disgraceful.
The current attack dog approach to Boris Johnson is a good example. This Privilege Committee is overloaded with hypocrites and lies and utilises the publics sorrow during Lockdown in order to castigate someone that they want rid of, a serious opponent to their own aspirations within the same Political Party or a Political opponent.
Currently we have the worst congregation of elected Politicians that I can recall as a 70+ yr old. They have consistently focussed their attention upon everything and everyone outside of this country to the detriment of the British People themselves. They have pushed the agendas of the minorities to the detriment of the vast majority, totally ignoring the general public along the way; Climate Change, Trans Rights to the detriment of Womenâs Rights etc. Come the next General Election ask yourself a few questions; who or which Party is worthy of your support, who has worked for you and who has been upfront and honest. The answers will surely bring about the lowest turnout ever in a GE!
Reply No. I opposed the mistakes and the lies they brought with them
June 17, 2023
Sir John, You are basically saying that it is OK for the Government / MP’s to lie to the electorate if it is politically justified (in their opinion).
It does explain why the UK in going down the drain fast- Broken Briton.
Covid, The War with Russia, Immigration (legal or otherwise), Bank of England, Civil Service, the list of events based on misleading the electorate is endless.
” The Truth will set you free” ???
Reply No, I am not saying it is OK. I opposed those policies and statements!
June 17, 2023
My apologies Sir John, I read part of your text as excusing some of the misleading as not intentional.
I would also like to state that I do not believe you mislead lead us in what you views are. But I do think you are too loyal to the Conservative Party when it now no longer reflects you views.
June 17, 2023
and Sir John insists he can influence events more by supporting this Government than fighting for what he believes in with say, Reform. he obviously really believes the Senior Civil Service, Judiciary and the Cabinet listen and are influenced to some degree by his protestations. Oh Dear.
Examples please.
18.46
Reply The latest is the Bank of England accepting it needs to change its models and how it tries to control inflation after its obvious failure.
June 17, 2023
There is a big difference between right and wrong and a ” lie ” is a ” wrong ” ; it causes misunderstanding , a waste of time , it loses trust and reliance . Leaders – particularly MPs must set an example for others to follow , as such their place in community is vital . If leaders do and say what suits them mayhem is the result .
June 17, 2023
I wouldn’t mind Boris Johnson’s shenanigans except that he’s not that talented. He’s a great newspaper columnist. But a pretty useless PM. And all he’s doing is setting a bad example about what real leadership is whilst undermining the institution of our great Parliament that’s taken centuries to develop – all for his own personal whims.
(My mother’s family went to Eton for nearly 5 centuries! Something like that. I want the school to survive and do well. But it is now just producing a lot of overly ambitious – without the talent to meet their ambition – entitled people who are doing more damage than good in public life. Time to support the grammar schools more!).
June 17, 2023
And we really need to make Eton unfashionable so that it pulls its socks up and deserves / earns the respect it once had. And get rid of the stupid (for this day and age) top hat and tails. A smart suit will do.
June 17, 2023
What should we call this very expensive, brainwashing group that get life-long meal tickets?
June 17, 2023
Picking up in part of other views around the Media it would appear the âConservative Partyâ has given up on wanting a Conservative Government. They will tell the lie of of Conservative values, the lie of Conservative efficient management of the economy, Conservative principles of freedoms. An endless stream of false hoods at election time. Yet what we have finish up with its is either the Conservative Party in total, or is controlling body the Conservative Campaign Headquarters(CCHq) that want the whole ideal of Conservativism to vanish from UK History.
Rather than have some short term upheaval, a great reset of the Party they prefer to wait things out so they get total collapse as their supports stays away, find alternative homes come the election. So you would have to suggest it is those that are paid up members of the Conservative Party that are living the âlieâ they are just left-wing WEF disciples that want a Socialist Government for the UK. They wont support what the tell the electorate they will get.
The Conservative Party and with respect to our kind host and just a few other MPâs with integrity the whole set up has become delusional, the lie the are telling is to themselves
June 17, 2023
Yes, some lies are almost acceptable – but that threshold has been totally overwhelmed by those that are supposed to serve our interests and continue to lie about anything that suits them or government policies.
Parliament has become the place where myths are perpetuated, where lies are common place and where honest debate has produced deceitful legislation that does more harm than good.
June 17, 2023
John, Boris and Truss BIGGEST mistake was not using your talents in the treasury team and Sunak, that is their big mistake choosing weaker ministers who donât have their backs and have no personal discipline. If I were Sunak Iâd put you on the monetary policy team in liaison and control of the BoE dept. and quick before he screws up any more of our loans and lives.
June 17, 2023
The manifesto your party was elected on was one BIG lie. Not only have none been delivered but the opposite has occurred. Here are some of the promises you made in 2019:
Take back control of our laws.
Fix our immigration system.
Ensure we are in full control of our fishing waters.
We will keep costs down for small businesses â rather than hiking their taxes and crushing Britainâs prosperity
We will not borrow to fund day-to-day spending.
Public sector net investment will not average more than 3 percent of GDP. This means that debt will be lower at the end of the Parliament â rather than spiralling out of control under Labour.
We will build and fund 40 new hospitals over the next 10 years. We will clamp down on health tourism.
Make our country safer. We will use our new freedoms after Brexit to prevent more foreign national offenders from entering our country. We will cut the number of foreign nationals in our prisons, and increase penalties to stop them returning.
June 17, 2023
@Christine +1
Say anything to get elected then forget it all. The wider Conservative party has a lot to answer for, they must have know those that they canvassed for were not Conservatives â they wasted their time and efforts while promoting the âbigâ lie.
June 17, 2023
I just don’t see the point of lying.It defiles trust. Mistakes can sometimes be forgiven but double think just does not do it for me.
In a position of public trust it’s simply a childish evasion demonstrating an inability to carry out a job.
June 17, 2023
How would you manage in international affairs?
June 17, 2023
Do you think lying is a condition sine qua non to conduct international affairs?
June 17, 2023
At the very least there sometimes has to be bluff. Not showing one’s hand is certainly important in diplomacy.
June 17, 2023
I would tell the truth Rose , probably slammed down and then years later (told you so)
June 17, 2023
well umpteen Governments have found they get away with it for decades.
The electorate either are simply very gullible, accept their forbears’ political ignorance or are no longer concerned at being told shocking lies with a straight face. But then they get used to it by attending UK schools, and universities.
June 17, 2023
âTelling the truth assists democratic debate and good government.â
Even more important is freedom of speech, because otherwise who can tell if anything is true or not?
Cancellation and censorship of any form is the enemy of democracy. The answer to misinformation, disinformation and malinformation is more speech not less.
Which is why the Marxist left are so keen on suppressing free speech.
June 17, 2023
Funny that one of the best books on mis-, dis- and mal-information has been written by a Cambridge (previously LSE, Princeton, then Yale U.) academic. Is Sander van den Linden (not von der Leyen) a Marxist?
âFoolproof: Why we fall for misinformation and how to build immunityâ, S.vd Linden, 2023, Harper Collins.
June 17, 2023
Thank you âŠSir John
June 17, 2023
Stolen from the Telegraph
The political class is fiddling with partygate while Britain burns
One has to wonder: have these self-indulgent, snowflake MPs completely lost their minds?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/06/17/political-class-fiddling-with-partygate-while-britain-burns/
The headline writers have said what the World thinks
âItâs the economy Stupidâ
Itâs about MPâs being paid to hold those running the Country to account, then failing, the challenging why when they (the Conservative Government) after 13 years, havenât honoured their manifesto pledges, why they have created an economy in decline.
Petty political snipping is just that, âimmature children lost in a playground that adults should have taken control ofâ
June 17, 2023
Sir John,
The Bank of England is independent, and the EU can do no wrong.
Whoever believes one will certainly believe the other.
June 17, 2023
The depressing thing about this topic is how difficult it is to discuss without people flaring up self righteously and getting the wrong end of the stick. I remember William Waldegrave trying to start it and being lambasted. There are times in public life when the whole truth cannot be told, and the so called “grown ups” should know that. Not that they are naturally truthful themselves anyway.
As for Boris, when one presses people for examples they can only come up with the bus and the Hastings/Howard old chestnuts of decades ago. Hastings is Brexit deranged and Howard has at least twice publicly disowned that story.The bus was just a suggestion, not a promise, and that suggestion was taken up in spades by Mrs May and then Boris, so that far, far more is now spent on the NHS.
When Boris was answering in the House, I did not hear him lie. I heard him choose his words carefully. He was obviously protecting civil servants as all Ministers do, and it later transpired they were Gove and Sue Gray’s civil servants, not his. This must be why she used the pronoun “we” with the phrase “a failure of leadership” but I don’t remember our untruthful media picking that up.
June 20, 2023
rose, perhaps Boris moved aside so he and his family don’t get ‘trumped’.
The hypocrisy of the NHS management and staff who demanded visitors stop being allowed inside hospitals and care facilities to limit transmission to them. I don’t blame them; people coming and going into hospitals sitting on beds, bringing in their bugs has always been an infection control problem. They allowed end-of-life visits masked up in the two hospitals near me. How anyone can blame a libertarian like Boris for that decision is beyond me. He was hounded into it, accused of blood on his own hands if he didn’t.
When people discuss the bus we need to ask them how much in membership fees, tax transfers on RoW imports to the UK, other taxes and fines we are saving now the divorce payments are finally starting to reduce, how much less is Erasmus costing the UK, which was balanced too far in the EU students favour (in other words there weren’t an equal number of UK students taking advantage of EU full-time university education and loans) EU students able to get loans from British taxpayers to pay for their maintenance and free education in Scotland when English kids couldn’t!
June 21, 2023
What you are alluding to is omission.In my profession omission is judged as severely as a mistake, however individually the consequences of each omission has varying degrees of impact.A standard ethical discussion asks whether omission can be considered to be a lie. To discuss semantics is not a personal attack but a means to understand others , their perceptions of language and correspondence to meaning. Even with dictionary definitions the meanings are altered by reference and deference.
June 17, 2023
In the case of Boris, he was being asked in parliament about a matter that was being investigated by the police. It seems strange that someone who is pleading not guilty to the police should be expected to plead guilty to parliament.
It also seems strange that the photos of the “parties” had been published by newspapers a year beforehand. If he believes it to be a work gathering and the police do not, that is a matter of interpretation, not of lying. If he believed himself to be guilty then why did he have an official photographer present so that the world could see what was happening?
It’s not a witch hunt, it’s a lynch mob. The pretext is so feeble as to be laughable. It is one reason why I will not vote for any of the political parties currently in Westminster.
June 17, 2023
The whole “partygate” psychodrama is a distraction from the real issue. It’s meant to stop us focusing on the really important fact: the government which was telling us to cower in fear of a deadly virus, and suspend our normal lives, itself had no fear of the virus. It knew that the restrictions on social and economic life were not necessary.
That is what we are not supposed to think about.
June 17, 2023
Sir John,
I suppose you have to comply with certain expectations, hence your lines. For the more discerning public a statement of attending or not attending social events is much less of an issue than living without any worry but knowingly (see Sky Twitter journalist account) presenting a contrary scenario to the public, abolishing well established freedoms, printing money, and misleading the public by leaning on social media and buying off the press. The direct and indirect consequences are with us und keep feeding through. I may be wrong, but the likely scenario really could be Lab and CON more or less swapping their number of MPs. Given grassroot influence, this might lead to a reformed CON party or it being supplanted by a CON in name and deed that will implement the manifesto from 2019 that was never implemented despite a comfortable majority.
June 17, 2023
JR: “Lies and Parliament”
Parliament is sovereign.
Britain is independent.
The CIA has not been active in the UK since the end of the second world war.
US NGOs ( color revolutions ) are not active in the UK.
We have thirteen US bases on UK soil because we are an independent country.
We have an independent nuclear deterrent, that just happens to have a third override key.
MPs put the interests of their constituents before their own.
That last was a joke.
June 18, 2023
It has always been known that MPs would not âput their constituents interests before their ownâ, the genius of our political system is that the interest of the MP (keeping his job) itâs tied to the interest of his constituents. The whole of Conservatism and Capitalism is like this, thatâs why we donât have to âtrustâ people.
June 19, 2023
Lynn Atkinson: “the genius of our political system is that the interest of the MP (keeping his job) itâs tied to the interest of his constituents.”
In the fifties, maybe. The fact is the constituents don’t select their MP any more. An MP is selected by CCO (Tory) or, I don’t care ( NEC ) Labour, and foisted on the local constituency party. When it ought to be the other way around.
The fortunes of an MP has been utterly disconnected from the wishes of the local constituency party, and an MP today is utterly at the beck and call of the Party central office.
June 17, 2023
The claims that Brexit has left the City of London with a net loss of 7,000 jobs is one of the Remainer myths revealed to be completely false in a new BBC series. Instead, Chris Hayward, policy chairman of the City of London Corporation, has revealed that there are now “thousands of extra jobs” in the City as a result of Brexit.
Mr Hayward was speaking to the BBC’s Adam Fleming for a new series, Brexit: A guide for the perplexed which is attempting to explain the impact of leaving the EU in “an accessible and clear way”.
Previously, the Corporation has been accused of anti-Brexit bias most notably putting more Remainers than Leavers on shows like Question Time. But the BBC has tried to balance things out recently including with an audience only made of Leave voters next week for Question Time.
June 18, 2023
What do you bet, Mickey, that those Leave voters will have been as carefully selected as a citizens assembly? Won’t they have gone out to find people who voted Leave but have now succumbed to the non stop anti Brexit propaganda?
June 19, 2023
Many people who accuse Boris Jo0hnson of lying to parliament assert that he is the first Prime Minister to do so. Have they never hear of David Lloyd George, Anthony Eden or Tony Blair?