As someone who embraced the coming of the first mobile phones, adopted the iPad and welcomed the scope the web offered as with this blog I am in principle happy with the idea of a self driving car that would leave me free to do other things on a journey.
As a legislator I will need some persuading we have reached the development point with self drive cars that is acceptable and will fit on our roads alongside cars with human drivers.
So far I have found the addition of extra computing power to my current car far from smart. It is often annoying, slows down using the vehicle and can conflict with your safe judgements as a driver.
In the morning the computer display says Good Morning. There is no point in saying Good Morning back, and it delays being able to tell the sat nav where I am going which needs to be done before driving off . I drive to a local shop, leave the car for 5 minutes and then it wishes me Good Morning all over again with no sense of irony!
You are driving along on a sunny day -remember those?- and go briefly into shade. You can see perfectly Ā well. The car puts the lights on. Why? I didnāt tell it to.
You are in heavy London traffic on one of those junctions where your turn gets a few seconds on green. You follow the car ahead closely but safely at a slow speed to get round before red and the car screams at you.
You choose to stay in third gear because you foresee the likely need to stop at lights a few hundred yards ahead. The car tells you to change to a higher gear in blissful ignorance that you will need to slow down.
The sat nav tells you you will arrive in Westminster at a stated time. You estimate it will take a quarter an hour longer because the last three miles are always impossible thanks to the anti motorist street layouts, lights and road blocks. The sat nav is nearly always wrong and never learns from the repeat errors.
The other day the car told me I needed to download additional software. I complied when the car was parked overnight. In the morning it needed more time to complete. It had for no good reason hidden icons I needed to access easily, so I had to waste more time before setting off trying to rescue items that would be useful.
It has a fuel use/ environment programme. However you drive the vehicle the accelerator rating plunges from 5.0 to 1.0 as soon as you get the car moving. The brake and speed ratings make more sense and help give you better consumption figures for restrained Ā driving.
Car producers need to keep in touch with what buyers want. Not all technology is good. Touch screens in cars are difficult to read when the sun shines on them and when they get finger marked. They do not always respond to touch. It is dangerous to look at them Ā when you need to be very alert watching everything going on on the road around you. It is very annoying when they do not respond to first touch. It is therefore important the touch screen Ā does not contain controls you need when moving. Switches and knobs on older cars always work first time Ā and do not require you to look away from the road ahead.
August 17, 2023
Good morning. – He says, at press of a button š
Yesterday I tried to workout a route into London on Google Maps. Talk about going around the houses ! So I took control, or so I thought. Bloody thing decided, once I almost got a better route sorted, to re-route me, throwing all my hard work out the window. Why ? Sat Nav is better, and safer, than looking at an A-Z but sometimes it would be nice if things came with an off-switch.
My neighbour has much the same problem with her car. It just will not stop pinging and ponging. It sounds like an old Atari games console on wheels, only a lot less entertaining.
In future I shall be eyeing up the classic car market. I here E-Type Jag prices are falling.
August 17, 2023
MB,
Good plan, pre 1982, no road tax, no MOT requirement and ULEZ doesn’t apply. And the bonus, you get to spend hours tuning triple SU’s! (Or at least talking about tuning 3 SU’s down the pub)
August 17, 2023
@Mark B I use Waze, Google Maps sibling it is human updated in real time (so flawed but not as much) . At time I cant believe the route it sends me on, but every time so far it has turned out to be the best option
August 17, 2023
Ian
I loaded Waze on my phone and PC yesterday. Have not got round to checking it out. But thanks anyway.
August 17, 2023
What a dream! Thatās a car that does not need to say good morning – it creates good mornings!
Most of us just need the satnav for the last part of an unknown journey. Use your phone for that. And donāt honk at some poor sod who is wrestling with a car that has its own, inferior, mind!
August 17, 2023
Lynn
Not not referring to Tesla (BBQ on wheels) drivers are you š I hear a certain person of this parish with a potty-mouth drives one.
August 17, 2023
š± No!
I was thinking of poor JR trying to make his car lay up so he could get across the junction before the robot changed. – sorry āTraffic lightā
August 17, 2023
The problem I have with our sat nav is that it will direct you down narrow country lanes. I suppose it’s because the computer calculates on the basis you can do 60mph. In reality if it’s narrow you can’t do much more than about 10mph, and someone has to reverse to the nearest passing place if you meet anyone.
August 17, 2023
You might have it set in āshortest routeā. You can change that to āfastest routeā. Should keep you out of the lanes.
Incidentally I set the sat nag to my destination then while I know the way I ignore itās instructions, when I get to the nit I donāt know it picks up from the point I am to the destination, and I obediently follow its instructions. During the period when I take control, it does reset and calculates the time for me to return to the point that I started ignoring it. So the distance and timing increase but I ignore that.
August 17, 2023
Lynn
No unfortunately, when it is set to fastest route it gives you the problem as it thinks you can do 60mph on a de-restricted single track lane, as outlined by Dave.
August 17, 2023
Dave
Yes a nightmare in Devon and Cornwall, had that experience for years, now use a map to get as close as possible on main roads to venue, map will also give you an idea of width of road by its colour, dark yellow, light yellow or to be avoided if possible white. Got fed up with grass touching both sides and all the sensors going off !.
August 17, 2023
Yes, Dave, this is particularly prevalent with the unrestricted 60 mph single track roads in parts of Devon & Cornwall.
August 17, 2023
Given that the use of smartphones and other mobile phones is banned whilst driving, I do not see how the extensive use of touchscreens for the control of basic car functions cannot be seen as equally distracting to the driver. Finding the right screen and icon to turn on air-conditioning is just as distracting as any use of a smartphone.
August 17, 2023
@Will Agreed
August 17, 2023
Will, I have said exactly that for years, and I certainly agree that you should not use the mobile phone when driving, but it seems ok if it is hands free which a touch screen is not.
August 17, 2023
You want a knob to turn, a button to press or a switch to flick for anything you need to operate whilst driving. Ask an airliner pilot.
August 17, 2023
I know a great many people, mainly my elderly relatives, that donāt have a smart phone (theyāre of the opinion that their phone works well to communication, so why upgrade), and theyāre finding it more difficult to use government and local government service ā¦.its becoming an effect ban on poor people if every year you have to upgrade your browser or smart phone version to be able to use services ā¦has our paperless society made any difference in the pursuit of global net-zero
August 17, 2023
I now have a second hand smart phone given to me by my sister who is always upgrading and I hate the thing. I much prefer my stone age flip phone with proper buttons instead of touch screen which invariably I do wrong and the flip phone it is about a quarter of the size of this new fangled thing in my pocket. That’s a backward step. Had to accept in the end because batteries are no longer available for the old one. Anyway, we don’t get a signal here in the country in this third world country we have so can’t use it unless I go 4 miles up the road. If I have to use a phone to pay, I won’t go there, same for parking.
August 17, 2023
Smart phones can be a nuisance. If you have to carry one for a digital purchase then itās another burden. You rely on it being charged and working properly. Often you will need to load it with various apps that only get used very infrequently.
I have used it to get into Tottenham Hotspur and it was tiresome. With cricket now you cannot get a paper ticket on the day at Lords. They donāt really want county cricket there anyway. They would rather you went to Radlett or some other outstation.
Waitrose want you to use an app instead of paper discount vouchers now. Itās just not worth the bother.
August 17, 2023
Give self driving cars a few years to develop and relatively soon they will be more competent than any human. When chess computers first came out even I could beat one – now even bottom of the range cheap chess computers can beat any human player.
August 17, 2023
G B
Until there is a cyber attack.
Until there is an inevitable power failure.
Until the complex electronics fail.
What better means of government control when you stray from an approved route!
August 17, 2023
Geoffrey.
The real test will come when the manufacturer is legally responsible for the insurance cost and any accidents, if they refuse to accept liability, then you know they think self driving is not as good or as safe as they suggest.
Perhaps John the politicians should make a new law, all self drive vehicles are the responsibility of the manufacturer if involved in an accident of any type, that should concentrate the minds!
August 17, 2023
You can’t compare driving with chess. Chess is a defined grid system with a finite number of moves.
Driving is a random experience with no precise moves. It will be impossible to replicate safely.
August 17, 2023
Some of the features such as 360 degree camera are good buy it’s annoying when on narrow roads it tried to force me over to the kerb.
One thing I noticed when it snowed earlier this year the lane guidance was blind. How would a fully self driving car behave in a blizzard.
August 17, 2023
Well perhaps but they will be programmed to do what the vendors, governments & regulators want and to sell you more produce & not what is best or convenience for consumers in the main.
Computer maps and internet searches are not about getting you the information you want but trying to divert you to buy something elsewhere or see some adverts or collect your personal data.
August 17, 2023
Well good luck with that. There will chaos and many dreadful accidents. Car technology is far too complicated, manufacturers should concentrate on improving efficiency and economy and stop increasing the size of their cars. I think thereās a compelling case for banning huge SUVās from busy towns frequently seen with one occupant! Years ago we had the mini and fiat 500! And we managed just fine.
August 17, 2023
Entirely different propositions. Driving a car demands real-time anticipation and judgement based on sight. No computer can do this or will ever be able to do this.
Chess is a matter of applying set rules to win a game. The computer programme has played thousands of millions of games and stores the winning moves. That is what it reproduces – based on the pieces on the board.
Computers are good at two things: endlessly monitoring and doing things fast, very fast.
THEY HAVE NO JUDGEMENT.
August 17, 2023
Interesting that those responding should think so highly of human intelligence (which is generally fallible, biological and common experience driven) rather than a different and developing type of intelligence which is more rational and calculation driven (and indeed makes what amounts to ‘judgements’ though they are judgements based on calculations rather than instincts and vaguely recognisable patterns).
Surely people here on a broadly right wing political website should realise that typically human intelligence is not that great nor indeed that practical in terms of running a society. Maybe computers will soon be able to do better than either Sunak or Starmer in finding sensible policies to run the country with.
August 17, 2023
In the US a self driving car thought that a large blue painted truck stopped at a junction was sky. The passenger was decapitated.
August 17, 2023
ai.stackexchange.com
(7 years ago)
āWhy did a Tesla car mistake a truck with a bright sky?ā
August 17, 2023
Heath Robinson would have designed a better vehicle.
August 17, 2023
Sir John, your car is a result of the economic system and free market you prefer. You do advocate more AI and the concept of continous developement.
The Government and big organisations will now tell the customer what it thinks the customer should have and be happy with it in order to continue in business and Government. Nothing is no longer done for the benefit of the customer or tax payer/voter.
If it was your car would have a button which would say press for old car mode or I am in charge not you button . I do hope it complies with WOKE regulations and allows you to choose the correct pronoun to correctly address the car so it won’t be offended and not start.
A slight joke but this is where it is all leading and not just in your car.
August 17, 2023
What a shame then that the customers have become so completely brain addled and infantile as to be mere consumer fodder and fashion fodder.
It seems the tech you use is rated along the same lines as the trainers you wear!!
The inability to think for one’s self, not follow the herd if it doesn’t feel right and to question in general what’s in it for those bombarding you with what you ‘must have’ to be successful etc. has all but disappeared.
That isn’t just down to a free market surely, but a policy of having a compliant easily fooled and placated with new toys and gadgets mass of humanity.
Your woke joke is solid gold humour, but let’s not forget many a true word spoken in jest. Things have reached an alarming state of madness where it is more likely to be seen as normal, rather than a humorous take on a subject.
August 17, 2023
@John McDonald – I disagree its not the free market it is Government manipulation of the market to enhance their Control over your daily life that is the problem.
You are monitored by the State not because you have done anything that would be a cause of concern, but they(Government) lives in fear of the People ā they forget their purpose.
Governments have created big Corporations as it suits their dream of control, in practice that means Governments ensures there is no real competition, they deter start ups that could challenge the established, they encourage consolidation and buyouts that remove competition. That means Governments āblockā free markets while pretending the opposite. Probably because free markets work, but work in away that is at odds with their(Governments) desires fior control
August 17, 2023
John McDonald
You are so right.
My old schoolmate runs a garage and he reckons that 80% of warranty work revolves around electronic involvement in one form or another.
He asked Range Rover at a trade fair if they took off all the electronics and went back to good old basic cars how much would they save in production and warranty costs and increase their reliability? The reply was along the lines that the industry has moved on and it is what customers demand. That says it all really. Nearly all the major manufacturers have high warranty costs basically due to all the electrical gizmos on their vehicles.
August 17, 2023
I don’t have any of these issues. But then I chose to buy a small, fuel-efficient, unsophisticated and fairly cheap car – which I would actually drive myself – and which had no distracting gadgets. It irritates me by lighting a symbol to tell me that tyre pressure has reduced, but not the helpful information …. which tyre needs more air!
The control panel on my son’s hybrid BMW (company car – tax efficient because it’s a hybrid, but he runs it on petrol because he can’t charge it at home) is completely distracting; something which greatly concerns me since he regularly drives on the M25 and other very busy roads in the SE.
Of course, most “technology” in modern cars is not a result of driver demand. It’s a consequence of EU demands:
https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/automotive-industry/legislation/motor-vehicles-trailers_en
August 17, 2023
Anything that has to say āSmartā always falls short. Sir John in your situation it would appear a WOKE programmer has been engaged, say what you want someone to hear not what they want to hear. The self-driving bit, come the accident who becomes liable, the owner, the car manufacturer, the programmer? It might work if all cars and people that get near the roads are programmed by the same programmer. I drive an Audi that in its first few months it spent more time back at the dealers than it did on the road, the programming either didnāt function or it had a mind of its own. After one 5 day stint with nothing being solved, and the dealer waiting for info from Audi out of frustration I suggested they just rebooted the cars computer. Hey Ho the problem solved. Would that be sensible to do mid way through a journey on the M25? I am left with one on going situation, the wing mirrors just fold in while driving along.
This misleading phraseology now also encompass AI, it is not artificial and it is not intelligent, its just glorified Internet Web scraping. The real term is Large Language Model(LLM). There lays the problem if the answer needed hasnāt been posted on the Net, there is no intelligence to create it. That then creates the next situation would you post things being developed or trialled to the internet knowing you are to be ripped off, in terms of intellectually property by the modern web spider/scraper. Of course not. So the phrase āAIā isnāt(artificial or intelligent) it cant properly provide answers just best guesstimates based on public knowledge. Its a bit like believing in what the Media headline has to say as being the gospel truth as the headline states.
Just because something gives the appearance of working at one moment in time doesnāt mean it will in all situations. But that is what the āsmartā creators want you to believe.
August 17, 2023
You have said it all this morning Sir John. New cars come with far too much electronic junk, mostly stuff you do not need, and as for those dangerous touch screens….š . Knobs and buttons were far safer and easier to use as you soon got to know the layout and could use them without having to look at them.
I will soon be looking for a new car. It will be an older car, from before manufacturers started adding all these electronic extras. Preferably even without a built in sat nav.
I wonder wonder how long before Blade Runners becomes a national movement?
August 17, 2023
VW is already moving back to physical controls.
August 17, 2023
Insightful article and highlights why the second-hand car market is booming.
GM’s Cadillac Supercruise does offer limited self-driving on highway only but the function is controlled to a degree by a DMS with eye-tracking that notes your attention status to make sure you’re watching the road ahead, at all times. The EU I believe have made DMS eye-tracking mandatory in all new cars from 2025. The implications for full tracking including OMS (occupant monitoring systems all in the name of safety, obviously) by the State of all new vehicles are pretty concerning.
It seems tech has become the favoured modus operandi for those who wish to assert totalitarian control over society unless people change their voting instincts and back parties (not ā¦ā¦ SNP, nor ā¦ā¦ Labour, nor LD, nor the now ‘progressive’ Tories) that promote freedom liberty and a smaller State.
August 17, 2023
Technology can be a blessing and a curse.
Could its research and development not be put to better use elsewhere rather than self-drive cars. Down to individual industries I know but it seems such a pointless exercise on the face of it.
The more tech in a car the more to go wrong and at far higher prices, or so it seems in comparison to my repair bills as opposed to those with top of the tech range cars.
Then there is the question of every human activity being handed over to a computer. At the press of a few buttons the physical and mental exertions of the human is rendered next to useless.
Is that a good element of progress? I’m not so sure it is given the state of some people’s mental and physical capacities now, because of their reliance on technology.
Although driving is not the pleasant experience I once found it to be given all the pot holes, road congestion, weird road layouts and nowhere to park without paying a Kings ransom, there is still that element of joy to shifting gear, turning the wheel etc that a self-driving car will never replace for me personally.
August 17, 2023
I have a 29 year old Peugeot that is better in just about every respect than modern cars I deal in. More reliable, cheaper to run, better mpg, more enjoyable, sounds better. The only electronic component in the whole car (dash light circuit board) failed about 15 years ago and it makes zero difference. Modern car electronics fail on a weekly basis at considerable cost. Cars, like civilization in general, peaked in the 1990’s and we’re on the download slope to collapse. Our best hope is that government collapses first so we mght be able to save some things that would otherwise be wrecked by it.
August 17, 2023
Totally agree. I’ve been in and around the motor trade for all of my (so far 53 year) working life and I run a 24 year old Citroen for exactly the reasons you describe.
August 17, 2023
Made me laugh, we have a friend who owned the biggest car sales group in the North East. He arrives in a Ā£300 VW van. Seems the more you know the less you spend on flash cars.
August 17, 2023
Modern electronics are based on the throwaway economy. Lead-free technology means manufacture takes place at a higher temperature than tin-lead, putting more thermal stress on components. Be glad they don’t use it on aircraft.
My tuner/amplifier is 40 years old and still works. Out living room TV I bought before the lead-free requirement came in, because I supposed after that date nothing would work for any length of time. It must be about 20 years old now – I expect the tube will go phut at some time.
August 17, 2023
Indeed excellent points. Volume, temperature and fan controls that do not have rotating knobs but buttons to push up or down are hugely inferior. Auto gear boxes that cannot see ahead and foolishly change down a gear when climbing say a small railway bridge. Endless nagging about seatbelt as I often put mine on just after I set off and flip it off as turn up my drive.
Perhaps the worst and most irritating tech. āimprovementā is the phone queueing computer āyour call is very important to usā, āyou have called at a very busy timeā, āyou can go to our (useless) web site ā¦..ā, āpress one for A, 2 for Bā¦.26 for Zāā¦ sorry our lines are very busy you are 99th in the queueā¦ then after 30 mins they ofter cut out, tell you have now gone home or they put you though to someone unable to understand or speak english. Also emails that do not accept replies and being forced to fill in long website forms with endless time wasting sections demanding answers and perhaps log ins in order to communicate. Plus then you have no record of the communication (often you are forced to give incorrect answers as you are given A B answers when neither apply and no box to explain the truth. Almost better to write letters again or claim a disability or religion to be able to refuse to use computers or phones.
August 17, 2023
Don’t start me on automated telephone systems. The voice command once are the worst. Tried to call up an insurance quote – I gave up in the end.
August 17, 2023
I have done that on the very rare occasion I jump in the car and set off forgetting to but the belt on. Itās stupid and dangerous to make a habit of it.
August 17, 2023
Approx 10 years ago I worked as a District Nurse . We really needed sat navs as trying to see a road map in the dark rainy or icy evenings is impossible even with the best of inside-car lights. There are also few places to park at the side of the road to roll out a map. The sat nav usually took me down blocked roads, one way roads and route which was miles around our mileage allowance . Nothing changes with technology, for technology has not got foresight. Humans can imagine different scenarios and have a capacity to avoid danger, technology either misreads or cannot function in that way.
August 17, 2023
…and miles around routes which were ..etc
Sorry used to typing too quickly due to completing patients notes whilst consulting them
August 17, 2023
If you think the annoying habits being built into the car computers is bad now? Consider it just the start of AI knowing what is best, but not necessarily for you. The day will come, when you walk up to your car and say ‘ open the door Hal, (the pet name you have given it). The computer realising your drive today is not helping the ‘planet protection’ algorithm it must obey, replies to your command with, ‘Sorry John I am unable to do that’……
August 17, 2023
Sir JR. Treat yourself to a well restored historic vehicle. Something from the 60’s or 70’s. It will let YOU drive it and it won’t cost you Ā£12.50 a day to take into London.
August 17, 2023
+1
Got my eye on an old Jag’ or a Porsche (956, 911 or 944). Harry Metcalfe of Harry’s Farm fame, drives around London in a Rolls Royce.
Oh how the other half live.
August 17, 2023
Enjoy the repair bills.
August 17, 2023
Some excellent reasons for not jumping on the EV smart car bandwagon…although those options make it sound like they are from an expensive top of range car – out of the price range for most of us?
Certainly there are a number of things like road closures to deliberately congest traffic that make nonsense of sat-navs, but even then sat-navs very often fail to find the best route, or take account of traffic halted at certain areas. I’ve been with several drivers who rely on their sat-navs until they realise they are sending them on a convoluted route for no good reason.
A sat-nav can never replace a drivers intimate knowledge of an area, or the possible shortcuts… As for smart cars, I’d be inclined to turn them off!
August 17, 2023
Indeed, having just purchased a pre registered new ICE car earlier this year, the complications of getting to grips with all of the new systems I found absolutely baffling.
Cars are now computers on wheels, some do not even have a dip stick to check the oil level, you have to go through a myriad of touch screen operations, which takes longer that just opening the bonnet.
I would certainly agree that many of the so called safety systems make driving far more complicated than using your own common sense and experience.
So many hidden programmes, you simply are unaware of the full capability of the system, unless you have one-one detailed instruction over very many hours.
Problem is all new cars are similar, would far sooner have a bank of switches and knobs than a touch screen.
I have however found an excellent series of on line tutorials by a particular car manufacturer fanatic, which I have found very useful, all produced in his own time, at his own expense, with the help from his local new car dealer from whom he purchases his cars, and who understood to benefit of such tutorials.
The manufacturer surely should be producing such programmes for their customers, but sadly not, their giant handbook supplied with the car is difficult to understand and is virtually useless, confirmed by the main dealer at the time of purchase.
August 17, 2023
Oh, JR
Your car would make me so irritated I’d end up answering it back in frustration!
I have sat nav but I check my route before I leave home in order to choose the best route offered by my sat nav. That’s all I need for a peaceful drive (road conditions permitting!)
August 17, 2023
On the subject of cars, who are the idiots that decided that blinding, high intensity headlights were a good idea. I read an article somewhere recently reporting in this – it said something like half of drivers avoid driving in the dark because they are regularly dazzled by the oncoming headlights and canāt see.
As for touchscreens! What an insane idea. You, quite rightly, are not allowed to use a phone, you cannot set the destination in a SatNav unless you are stationery, but itās apparently okay to keep taking your eyes off the road to use a touchscreen – which may require touch after touch to achieve what simply rotating a heater dial would do. Bonkers. Whoās responsible for saying what car makers can, and cannot, do?
August 17, 2023
Being dazzled by oncoming headlights might be due to your own eye condition, the onset of cataracts. I notice elderly drivers ahead of me have to slow down much more than I need to when a car comes along a country lane.
Dazzling headlights are much worse in wet conditions, as oncoming headlight glare is reflected in the road and you own headlights reflect away making them ineffective.
I sometimes wonder whether it would be better in wet conditions if everyone turned off their headlights and just used sidelights.
August 17, 2023
A variation on ‘head-up’ displays are needed in cars, to avoid much of the distraction needed to switch focus from straight ahead to low down gauges.
August 17, 2023
The electric car is an invention because and only because it can be done. Whether it suits the drivers is not taken into account – progress is supposed to benefit society not hamper it.
August 17, 2023
There were electric cars well over a century ago, however they lost out to the (limited by modern standards) internal combustion engine because everyone could see that, except in special circumstances (milk floats?) iCE was far superior.
August 17, 2023
EVs never became popular decades ago, due to charging times and distance, business didn’t like because you have to buy two ….today people are buying them only because its a net-zero fad, they get a subsidy, have a garage and can afford an EV as a second car
August 17, 2023
We have a slightly hybrid Ford Puma with lots of smart features. I particularly like the adaptive cruise control which keeps me a fixed distance from the car ahead and which is adjustable. It works very well in a traffic queues or on the motorway. The lane control just gives a little nudge if I get too near a white line, again adjustable. I agree about buttons vs soft keys but there is a limit as to how many buttons can be built in, and there are about 10 on the steering wheel alone. Well done Mr Ford!
August 17, 2023
The new boss at Ford has decided to cease making their best selling ordinary less expensive models and make electric Chelsea tractors with screen controls. They had a Cougar electric on display and I asked where the battery was. They are in the chassis where a side collision would damage them and could cause a lithium fire. Electric cars should be banned from ferries following a number of fires on ships which could not be extinguished.
I asked how much the Cougar was and was told that it was a cheaper model at only Ā£66,000. Buyers are still able to afford them apparently, because they can buy on zero interest credit. Goodbye Ford.
August 17, 2023
Stred
Wait until the Ferries and the Channel Tunnel ban them, (only wants one fire to start the action) Auto gas was banned at one point due to being stored at high pressure, not sure if it still is !
August 17, 2023
+1
August 17, 2023
Sir Redwood, donāt be annoyed, be amused at your carās sense of humor.
August 17, 2023
Iāve absolutely no problems with smart cars, electric vehicles, hybrid vehicles, hydrogen powered vehicles or any alternative to the petrol & diesel vehicles ā¦what I got an issue with, is our governments telling us what vehicle to drive, and when & where we can drive ā¦Iāve got a problem with, so called conservative governments and all its MPs not allowing freedom of choice, competition and a free & fair market
August 17, 2023
+1
August 17, 2023
Well said.
August 17, 2023
I have just bought a new Hybrid car, all the latest gadgets are on the car. However do I trust them 100% , no, I have had to override them quickly because of the speed limit being picked up on the motorway suddenly went from 70 to 50 for no reason. Also if a car cuts in front of you the brakes come on, so you have to be very alert in with all these so called safety features.
August 17, 2023
SJR, many of these smart additions are there for marketing purposes and are positively distracting. I often thought that with the last car I owned in Spain, much of the information given was such that you should not be driving if in need of it. I very often had need to remonstrate with the lady in my satnav who got quite stroppy when I knew a better way of going to my destination. There was no talking ballast in my air navigating device, just very good readable info, even in spanish sunlight.
The best advice I can give is to switch off all the distracting advice and continue making your own judgements. Its good for delaying the onset of dementia as are crosswords and other mental challenges.
August 17, 2023
I like the idea of cars with a sense of irony although they mightn’t have much appeal outside the UK.
August 17, 2023
I had an āadvancedā car many years ago, that counted the revolutions not the miles, to determine when a service was required. When the magic number was reached, it bleeped. One happy morning a mile into a thousand mile trip, it started bleeping. Only the manufacturers service stations could reset the dial, and they all required an appointment.
The car never made it home. Iām sure the engineering reasoning was spot on, but it did not take into account the robustness of the engine to soldier on. I believe the idea of counting revolutions was dropped.
Thatās the power of the Market.
August 17, 2023
My one year old car has lot’s of ‘smart’ software featurs that fortunately are mostly backed up by console switches for all the essential functions and most of it can be disabled. The one thing that is really annoying is the ‘Stop–start’ function which is always enabled (on every start up) and has to have a button pushed to disable it. I dislike this feature intensely as it always catches me at junctions just as I want to pull out – the engine cuts off and you are immobile for a few seconds. Not long, just enough to give you a small heart attack if you are trying to merge into traffic flows.
August 17, 2023
On a very important subject.
Sir John, members of Westminster must refrain from giving POWER to the WHO as it is not trustworthy and organising in the direction of dictatorship!
You all must stop the WHO gaining power to drive their policy in Britain. Throw out the move before November, PLEASE!
August 17, 2023
From what Iāve read the next plandemic is hereā¦probably to set the seal on 15 min prison zones.
Repair man to house today wearing a mask.
I reiterate your PLEASE!
But I daresay that as usual they will throw us to the lions.
August 17, 2023
Agree ….what was the point of brexit if we just let the UN tell us what to do
August 17, 2023
Be grateful Sir John that you do not have a really smart ev.
In the morning you could find the battery has been discharged to help the National Grid with emergency power for hospitals during a windless night, as promoted by the Net Zero Strategy, the National Grid itself and one poster on this site, despite the amount of energy in evs being a pittance compared to that needed by the grid.
You may find that it will not start because you have used up your 15 minute or total Net Zero Allowance Mileage or carbon credits or because of existing congestion or lack of parking at your intended destination.
August 17, 2023
or perhaps it may not start as your social/behaviour state score is too low ….a bit like China
August 17, 2023
May we enquire as to what make and model you are driving ?
I can say that my current-model Audi A7 does none of these annoying things.
The only problem with it is that it will not allow the satnav to be set via the good-sized LCD screen while the car is moving, even when there is a passenger able to do the task safely. The voice activation you are supposed to use instead, does not always understand the address, which is annoying.
Of course none of these problems are present in older, pre-electronic cars which, if more than 40 years old, attract no road tax nor require an MOT. Even better, comprehensive insurance will cost no more than Ā£150 a year.
Our 1968 MGC and 1955 Rolls Royce Silver Dawn are not expensive cars to buy, even compared with new IC-engined cars, let alone EVs, and they suffer no depreciation.
They are an excellent panacea for the problems of today and if an MP runs a classic car which is MOT and road tax free, it is also immune from the ULEZ charge !
August 17, 2023
Letās see you arriving at Westminster in E-Type JR. It would suit you!
reply I sold my E type some years ago.
August 17, 2023
Sir John
Noooooooo! Why would you do such a thing. It is not just a car, it is a work of art.
Lynn
+1
August 17, 2023
A Rolls Royce SIlver Dawn like mine would suit you just fine. I happen to know where a very good one is just coming up for sale in immaculate condition. 65 years old and only 25,000 miles, verified by the RAC.
August 17, 2023
Chris, if JR were a car, he would be an E-type.
August 17, 2023
Reply to reply.
I n my youth I owned an XK140 and before that a Mark V (neither were new to me!). Both a dream to drive and what would they be worth now!
August 17, 2023
Sold your E Type ?
A rare and expensive mistake by our host……………….
August 17, 2023
My car has front radar which makes the car keep the correct space between the car in front. This leads to cars behind assuming that I don’t want to overtake and am blocking the outside lane. They tailgate me and flash headlights. Sometimes they then undertake and swerve out into the space.
When I was coming off the Shuttle tunnel train it though I was going to crash into the end of the carriage and slammed on the brakes, nearly causing a pile up behind.
My satnav is often wrong and seems to be programmed to send me on toll roads in France. As my wife always sides with it and its bossy female voice, this leads to inevitable arguments and recriminations.
August 17, 2023
After all that, I am rather glad to have my 19 year old Vauxhall, which incidentally complies with Kahn’s mad ULEZ scheme. Electric windows and side mirrors and that’s about it for technology. A cheap plug in satnav does me for when I go somewhere I don’t know. Suits me fine and doesn’t cost me a fortune in finance, just a couple of hundred quid a year for MoT, sometimes it just sails through. New car, no thanks and especially no to an electric with all the worries of that. I just go to my village pump where an attendant serves me, a chat while it fills and I am good for hundreds of miles. Good luck with all that unnecessary nonsense you have in your car. It will still be an old banger one day and worth zilch, after paying thousands of pounds for the privilege.
August 17, 2023
“So far I have found the addition of extra computing power to my current car far from smart. It is often annoying, slows down using the vehicle and can conflict with your safe judgements as a driver.”
Trying to take away Human Judgement, as AI try’s to do, in all variations, will undermine, not just AI, but the human activity it’s trying to do! They will get bore, complacent, they will not have the variables at hand to make decisions, but there is something far more disingenuous at play! Watch how quickly Politicians will use it to impose themselves onto the Public! Taxes, new laws and restrictions, greater control, it’s all part of the Eco mania in fashion today!
As someone that has studied AI at degree level, and has tried to develop different aspects of it, commercially, I find myself remembering implementing a Chess Game, but I found it more interesting to play the game myself, and far more rewarding! I no longer study AI (boring!) as it will not, in my mind, achieve everything they say, or develop applications of it (Machine Learning needs far more R&D, and needs to become Open Source, and accessible to developers, not interested in buying it! It’s not what the claim)!
Sir John’s scenarios above describes the limits of AI quite well. The Producers will improve things, but we will need to see a step change in the AI’s cognitive ability, machine learning, and Processing power/architecture! With a lot more contextual and computational support! Some issues will be straight forward to resolve, just needs time and development, but that’s for commercial R&D.
If we don’t stop making claims for it, creating expectations that can’t be met, it could turn out to be a damp squid!
But, I’ll not be using it, as I enjoy driving, the freedom it represents, and it is a good skill People should learn, because of the decision making involved!
We could end up with Zombies tied to a PC going around playing bumper cars!
Be careful of the claims of Politicians, they would luv us to be strapped into something that they can control!
As far as I am concerned, they need to focus on the complete stack of that that constitutes High Valued Manufacturing, as in is the domain of the Poor, Working Poor, and many Blue Collar workers. The higher we lift them up, the richer we will all be!
Remember;
Self Determination is more important a Value then depending on Government for money!
They just got to be able too!
AI will look after it’s self!
BR
RDM.
August 17, 2023
The whole gambit about new cars is all about saving CO2 at any price
Greenpeace co-founder, Dr. Patrick Moore:
“There is no definitive scientific proofā¦ that carbon dioxide is responsible for any of the slight warming of the global climate that has occurred during the last 300 years.”
https://twitter.com/wideawake_media/status/1664940261099593728/video/1
“But there is certainty beyond a reasonable doubt that CO2 is the building block for all life on Earth, and that without its presence in the global atmosphereā¦ this would be a dead planet.”
What the hell is really going on with the current thinking? A heck of a lot of people are making a hell of a lot of money out of all this. All the while the poor of society suffer.
August 17, 2023
“The sat nav tells you you will arrive in Westminster at a stated time. You estimate it will take a quarter an hour longer because the last three miles are always impossible thanks to the anti motorist street layouts, lights and road blocks. The sat nav is nearly always wrong and never learns from the repeat errors.”
I can’t think why, but this reminded me of the Bank of England. Perhaps your car has been programmed with EDI/ESG principles and has recognized you as an educated Englishman who must be handicapped.
August 17, 2023
Will we even NEED cars?
ARE THEY BRINGING BACK MASKS AS MANDATORY?
One fridge repair man wearing a mask today.
Apparently WiFi menders tomorrow will similarly be ā protecting usā.
ANOTHER LOCK DOWN WILL FINISH US OFF.
Is that what MPs want??
August 17, 2023
I wouldn’t dream of using a – so called , “smart car “. Discretion and experience with neuro-muscular co-ordination is by far a better choice . Eye sight and physical condition are key ingredients to driving and no-one should get behind the wheel where these factors fall below a good standard . AI is certainly more on the cards than it used to be but personal discretion is more important .
August 17, 2023
All the tests I’ve seen of driverless cars have been in daylight, on wide American roads, on a good day for the weather. Tests on narrow UK lanes, in the dark, in Winter, with rain falling are just as relevant. I hope MPs will challenge the car manufacturers on this point.
August 17, 2023
Home Office data as at 16th August
Illegal Criminal Immigrants ā 444
Illegal boats – 8
August 17, 2023
++
Theyāve discovered perpetual motion.
An endless stream of cheap labour.
But have they forgotten that we all age?
Oh..never mind just bring in more.
Article in Telegraph advising any Brit under 50 to get outā¦just go.
Isnāt that just so sad?
August 17, 2023
Your car seems very well suited for a job in the Cabinet.
(A friend has a car of French manufacture that speaks in a female Australian accent. There is always another worse off…!)
August 17, 2023
“Ga’day!”
August 17, 2023
There are so many instances where traffic flow could be improved. I was sat at some traffic lights yesterday where there was no reason why the left lane couldnāt have moved. All it needed was a filter. Why not have a facility whereby motorists can report these improvements?
August 17, 2023
The Cones hotline? šš¤£ make them do the job they are paid to do. Or Else ā¦.
Iām fully stretched being an unpaid tax-collector for the blessed government.
August 18, 2023
They wouldn’t take any notice. Those ‘who know best’ don’t like taking advice or ideas from anyone outside their groupthink gang. ‘You will own nothing and be happy’ and be told exactly how to live your life. Thank God mine is coming to a conclusion – I’d hate to be a teenager now, apart from the aches and pains of course.
August 17, 2023
I have the same trouble with the mobile phone. It keeps trying to do things that it (presumably) thinks I want to do. Trouble is, I want to do something different so this wastes time.
I seems that programmers write code because it is possible, and not necessarily because it is useful. Sometimes it IS useful. Security on a PC is helpful but a computer that I purchased with my own money that tells me I have no authority to open a file is useless.
I want a button that turns off “auto-pilot” when I want to take control!
August 17, 2023
I wish there was a button to stop this Tory government from controlling my life
August 18, 2023
I wish it was a Tory government
August 17, 2023
The real reason we are being ānudgedā towards in-car touch screens is, of course, because they are a massive amount cheaper in terms of installation compared to knobs, switches and dials which have to be individually wired in etc. It is a benefit for the manufacturer, rather than the motorist.
August 17, 2023
Plus they can upload a lot of data about the car, and probably you too ?
August 17, 2023
….and via the wifi updates they can control your car ….and record where you’ve been
August 17, 2023
The same silicone problems are infiltrated into all systems now. Trades people are sending invoices by ‘e’ mail which go into junk or archives. Then the receiver gets the blame. The excuses are that they sent it electronically ,however hanging on to the ‘e’ mails are the scams who use others paper work and put their own bank details for bills . The excuse by those who are bleeding everyone dry is that ‘e’ mails don’t get put into Archive if you don’t physically do it .. what a laugh .. how stupid for people to believe that the computer gets it right.. I have benn using computers since they first appeared in Universities in 1984 BUT because I am getting older ” don’t really understand” pixcelled thoughts even !
August 17, 2023
Self driving, not so āSmartā cars could come into play were it is possible to identify an exclusive lane for them. In reality they could travel in convoy, keeping to a single lane ā a road train if you like on motorways. Mixing with the randomness of the rest of the world not so good.
There are concerns when it comes to the naming culture of āSmartā. There is an impending law being introduced(April 24), governing all IoT āSmartā devices. The Police have an initiative that identifies, door locks, connected home automation and alarm systems, Internet of Things base stations and hubs to which multiple devices connect, smart home assistants, smartphones, smoke detectors, connected cameras, connected fridges, washers, freezers, coffee machines that are all leaking by design your personal information to the wider World. For some reason TVās donāt appear to be on the list, but neither are āSmartā cars,(I keep meaning to ask them why) but both put others nefarious or otherwise in control of your life.
If one entity has external access that does mean all have external access. Elon Musk was famously able to over the web change the distance the Tesla cars could travel on a single charge for those trying to escape an impending hurricane in Florida. JLR recently updated how the lights on their vehicles worked over the air, most people didnāt know or see it happen.
August 17, 2023
@Ian B
The UK Government is so preoccupied in ensuring that they and those they describe as authorities have access to your every day life activities, they donāt appear to understand that their open door access is everyone elseās World wide access. Take the NI Police Situation it is simply the Governments refusal to ensure we are all secure by them ensuring we cant have security for all. Doing it right doesnāt reduce the authorities ability to obtain information but it does create a few more hoops for them when it comes to general snooping and fishing trips. Yet doing it right does enhance the security of the Country as a whole and the State ā surely that is their most important duty. Like most things the State and the Government are rubbish at it, they see an opportunity to defend themselves, stroke egos and self esteem, but not what is means to the wider community.
Even to day the Congestion & ULEZ cameras are not looking for those that havenāt paid or are polluting interlopers, but they are tracking and tracing everyoneās movements. These are actions of a Controlling Communist State not that of a free Democratic State that has freedoms and laws for all at its core. Why would any State or Government be so preoccupied, and it is a preoccupation, with Control if it wasnāt up-to no good?
Just as with NetZero they haven’t thought it through they charge all in without a care all guns blazing on some non-existent well meaning Woke sound-bite – then miss the point altogether
August 17, 2023
I have a 2013 VW Polo which I purchased new. It has knobs and switches and a very clean display of speed and revs and absolutely no buttons or switches on the steering wheel. Itās heaven. If I need a sat nav I use my own which I can place easily and minimal fuss. I shanāt be upgrading to anything until this car becomes uneconomic to repair. I have driven new vehicles and they are an unpleasant binging and bonging overly intrusive mess of a cabin experience. As for Ā£40k plus on a new electric, absolutely no chance!
August 17, 2023
Not very smart people?
Let’s take satnav – how often is it truly vital. How many drivers set off all the time to go somewhere they’ve never been before and could never find using a map and remembering which way to go? Is it needed on the trip to Tesco (other supermarkets are available)? Do people now stop remembering routes and they do need it for shopping?
It’s just gagetry which can help the lazy and can be bragged about, but does such massive investment need to go into getting it and keeping it up to date? Wastes a lot of time as stated, like many modern things which we acquire because can but could do without, and thus waste fewer of the worlds natural resources.
August 17, 2023
My petrol station has today put up its price by another 1p to Ā£1.49p per litre
August 17, 2023
I laughed when a lot of boiler engineers failed to fix my boiler, and they told me to call out the maker. The makers boiler engineer diagnosis… it needed a software update… something only the makers engineers could do as the new versions of software are not released to other gas engineers.
“Right to repair” needs mandating, including access to manuals and software updates for all, for cars, for gas boilers, for everything.
August 17, 2023
Driverless cars and ‘smart’ cars are not being introduced for your benefit but for the Woke State’s benefit so that that it can control you. There will be progressive and invasive emphasis on ‘safety’ and speed control. Even if you want full control over your car, laws will be passed so that you drive in a manner that will render other peoples’ driverless cars safe, and the incorporation of unwanted safety gadgets will become de rigour. Speed limits of 20 mph in urban areas and 40 mph on motorways will be introduced.
On issue after issue, you and other members of ‘the Right’ are failing to get your way on policy, on the law and practical actions. What you need to do quite urgently is to put together a draft Conservative manifesto supported by 50+ Conservative MPs and tell the Sunak/Hunt axis that unless they adopt some of it, those 50+ MPs will support a Labour ‘No Confidence’ motion. I’m not loyal to the Conservative Party as an institution, only to good (small State) government. As things stand, I intend to vote for the Reform Party, which is currently winning about 6% in the polls. The ‘broad church’ that Tory Wets are so fond of emphasising is not broad enough to accommodate me.
August 17, 2023
I have gained the impression that EVs are either bought as company cars as the employee pays next to no ābenefit in kindā charge or are bought by the elderly middle class who have good pensions and plenty of disposable income.
The rest is will be running our cars until they become uneconomic to repair. My main car has nearly 100k on the clock – Iāve never kept a car to this sort of mileage before – but now Iām thinking ācould it do 200k?ā If it could it would āsee me outā as I only do about 5k miles a year.
August 18, 2023
I used to have a SatNav but now I exclusively use Google Maps on my phone because it crowd sources information on traffic delays and traffic jams dynamically and adjusts arrival times accordingly. And it is free at the point of use. When Labour promote the benefits of nationalisation the private sector innovations in telecoms and software provide a good counter-example, imagine if the government were the only supplier of mobile phones.
August 18, 2023
Many problems with modern technology aren’t down to the technology, but with those using it. Automatic turning on/off of headlights can be disabled, as can many other features. Any decent modern sat nav will use a data source which can pick up current traffic conditions and adjust journey times and routes accordingly (although I find the best use of a sat nav is as a “last mile” tool, not as an end to end system).
Perhaps some time invested in the instruction manual would be worthwhile rather than just accepting default setups.