One of the worldâs largest car makers has been speculating on the future of the car.
They see the future as all electric. They do not tackle the issues of range, charger availability, charge  time, lack of renewable electricity to recharge , CO 2 generated in creating the metals, minerals needed and making the batteries or the issues with scrapping.
They do see an evolution to more automated vehicles. They wish to excite future customers with more digital  displays and capabilities. They anticipate moving away from the old ownership model to more varied patterns.They expect  there to be car pools and systems to summons a vehicle when you need one. They anticipate much more use of each vehicle as a result.
There is also a parallel vision of owners of EVs seeing them as mobile batteries, using them to supplement the grid and then finding some time when they can recharge them.
The two interesting features of the commentary were the absence of  any research into what we the potential customers might want, and the lack of any analysis of what might be possible in terms of access to renewable power and chargers. There was no carbon accounting, just an overall  assumption an  electric vehicle entails less CO 2 than a petrol one. That would depend on where the electrical  power came from, how many miles the vehicles were to do, and how much CO 2 it took to produce the battery of the EV.
These companies are becoming very  detached from customers and practicalities. They have also lost a lot of volume with petrol and diesel sales down by much more than electric sales are up.  What is your vision of the future car you want?
August 18, 2023
Good morning.
When bureaucrats are dictating what type and in what numbers can and cannot be sold you effectively inverting the market. That means the customer is no longer king. We are entering the age of the 21st Century Trabant.
One I own which provides me with the freedom to go anywhere and at anytime I so choose without let or hindrance. But this is becoming more and more unlikely.
It is clear that the powers at be do not want private ownership and would much prefer we stayed in our little boxes and not journey any further than 15 minutes from our homes.
You will own nothing but be happy. And neither will you be FREE. Which is the bit they don’t tell you about.
August 18, 2023
+1
Care sharing is also very expensive in practice. As with car hire you have the problem of checking the condition cleanliness and state or the car after each use and people all want the vehicles mainly at the same time for weekends, bank holidays, Christmas, Easter⊠plus users will not take care of the vehicles as much as if it were their car! Plus you have to get yourself, kids and luggage to pick up and drop of the vehicle. Perhaps a double taxi journey. Also needs booking so perhaps useless in an emergency need of a car.
August 19, 2023
I remember being in Alabama when tornadoes were coming and all the roads out of town were full of people evacuating and leaving. Somehow I don’t think such evacuations can work if everyone has electric cars.
August 18, 2023
But there is a hindrance to your supply of petrol/diesel – you rely on it being available at an accessible fuel station at a price you can afford, which relies on electricity to pump it, delivery from a refinery, supplied by sea tanker from a country that is willing to supply it.
As to true costs let’s conveniently ignore the lives and treasure lost, wars, “police actions”, bribery and political accommodations protecting access to the oil ..
August 18, 2023
We are sitting on trillions of ÂŁ worth of oil and gas. We pump it to the mainland direct. Needs minimal electricity to pump it and the electricity is generated using said oil and gas. There is no shortage, no problem, we have the infrastructure in place – it has worked faultlessly for centuries.
What exactly is your real problem?
August 18, 2023
Neither ICE vehicles nor the infrastructure has not been in place for centuries. Widespread use of ICE vehicles has been less than a century and we already have to import the fuels and have always been involved in wars over oil.
If there is cheap, limitless oil and gas under our feet, where is it? why do we have to import it?
August 18, 2023
There aren’t limitless supplies of the materials required for all-electric cars in the entire world. What happens when they run out? in the meantime wars will be fought over them. In fact the EU and Germany have already started. Ukraine has vast reserves of mineral resources of which lithium and rare earths alone are valued at up to US$12 trillion. To gain control of them the EU and Germany blackmailed Zelensky three days after the Russian invasion. He could have the weapons Germany had until then refused to supply plus finance if he signed away the future governance of Ukraine to the EU.
Under the cover of helping Ukraine Scholze has determined that Germany will become the most powerful armed force in Europe by 2030 and lead European defence. Unanimity in EU foreign, defence and securoty policies will be replaced by QMV which will favour Germany as it has the largest population. Von Der Leyen is to be the NATO secretary General and in that position will encourage and facilitate the EU replacing EU member states in NATO as it does in the WTO.
Germany wants control of these resources in Ukraine and is to become the dominant power in Europe, economically, militarily and politically. Mrs Thatcher will be turning in her grave and muttering, “I warned you.” It will lead an exploitative empire focused on capturing resources and other needs for itself.
August 18, 2023
Actually the internal combustion engine dates back to10th and 13th centuries, when the first rocket engines were invented in China.
We have to import fuel because you environmental extremists refuse to allow us to use our own.
The calculation of how much oil and gas there is is based on what is recoverable at the current rate, therefore the amount fluctuates with the price. But we will NEVER run out of oil or gas because we will continue to need it and therefor pay what it takes to recover it.
Have you thought where oil and gas come from? They are created by the earth – they are ârenewableâ. As we use it, more is created.
August 19, 2023
@Peter Gardner – “There arenât limitless supplies of the materials required for all-electric cars in the entire world. What happens when they run out?”
Metals and minerals can be recycled – burned petrol & diesel is gone for good.
Lithium is not the only battery chemistry.
August 19, 2023
@Lynn Atkinson – I am not an environmental extremist, not even an armchair activist.
“we will continue to need it and therefor pay what it takes to recover it.” – But you don’t pay the true cost, you ICE extremists are ignorant of the true costs much less cared about the true costs nor even where the oil & gas comes from just so long as you can get fuel when it is convenient for you.
Pretty sure rocket engines weren’t used for mass personal transport.
August 18, 2023
+++++
Oh yes!
Exactly!
And every MP MUST SURELY know the truth of all this.
Because the things that have happened ( as perceived by the sane) should have had them quite literally up in arms!!)
SoâŠas you ask.
What is the REAL problem? Or agenda even??
August 18, 2023
”every MP MUST SURELY know the truth”
They don’t care, they just do what the party & media say
August 18, 2023
Exactly. Dixieâs problem is the âCO2 is the devils gas and fiery hell on earth religionâ that seem to have infected about 90% of our un scientific MPs and is pumped out every day by deluded scientifically ignorant BBC types.
We can also, once we crack controlled fusion and have cheap electricity, manufacture hydrocarbon fuels using CO2, H2O and electricity and/or hydrogen . We could also use it to extract and store CO2 were this even needed. But it almost certainly will not be as the CO2 is a devil gas agenda is a gross exaggeration at best.
August 18, 2023
‘Cheap electricity’. Yeah, we heard all that cobblers in the 1950’s when nuclear was going to be ‘too cheap to meter.’ It won’t happen. It can’t happen. Too many big people would lose out making their billions and that would never be allowed.
August 18, 2023
@Ashley / LifeLogic / whatever your name is – If you read what I wrote just in that comment you will see I say nothing at all about CO2 …
August 18, 2023
@ Dixie, no I agree you did not, but without that CO2 devil gas religion why on earth go down this technology route at all. It makes no sense rational even if one accepts this religion and even less if you do not.
August 19, 2023
@Ashley – because you ICE extremists ignore the true costs and consequences and assume you will always be able to access oil easily and cheaply. That has never really been the case … why have we been spending lives in the Middle East even when we had our own oil & gas?
August 18, 2023
@ Lynn Atkinson
The real problem is ignorant pro-fossil fuel lobbyists who ignore the obvious facts about the climate crisis and who are too stupid to work it out for themselvers. The co-ordinated fossil fuel cartel got ÂŁbillions in direct subsidy from the government last winter – while thousands of UK pensioners froze to death. The future is wind and solar harvesting cheap FREE ENERGY at one fifth of the cost of fossil fuels
Reply And what happens on days of no wind and sun
August 18, 2023
The “facts” around climate are murky to say the least.
The real problems are the lack of strategic thinking and commitment in our governing classes compounded by the ignorance of the commentariate and greed and short sightedness of the consumer.
August 18, 2023
‘Too stupid’ – the insult of the zealot with no really deep understanding of what they are promoting and of course saying that are far more intelligent than anyone who disagrees. Finally, please tell us when we are going to get this ‘free energy’ at a fifth of the cost. No sign of it so far, even with all the windmills we have and what about the subsidy we pay on our bills for renewables?
August 18, 2023
Oddly enough you don’t mention that the Oil is free as well. In fact everything on this planet is Free – we don’t pay an external creator a thing for them. The costs come about by the actions needed to get and use these resources.
August 18, 2023
Reply -Reply
Store it in expensive batteries which have a limited shelf life, use rare metals from abroad to produce, and can be a big potential fire risk, and adds to the Cost of generation.
They call it progress JR !
Nothing wrong with some wind and solar as a mix, but will never be used as base load power.
August 18, 2023
There is no crisis, the stupid ones are those who believe there is! now go and live in your 15 min city and leave us all alone.
I can assure you, I certainly will not freeze as I have 20 years of timber staked at the back of the barn. and my little grey Fergie will haul more if needed.
Great, I can smell the pork chops, farm produce so no bug bread for me!
August 18, 2023
SG :
Nonsense.
The fossil fuel suppliers, who normally pay higher taxes, were subject to a windfall tax. Fossil fuels, just like wind and solar are free. Itâs the cost of extraction and turning into dispatchable electricity which costs and the energy from solar and wind cannot even be fully costed because it is not reliable and hence requires a parallel system of fossil fuel generation to be on hand for when the wind doesnât blow and the sun doesnât shine. There is no plan for storage as it is too expensive which means we will be subjected to extensive and random intermittency coupled with high prices.
As I write (17:41) we are exporting electricity at negative prices as this is cheaper than paying wind suppliers restraint payments.
The government is already in trouble with its new round of wind CfDs with major companies such as Vattenfall pulling out despite having spent hundreds of ÂŁ millions.
It may still take time but eventually âleading the wayâ with renewable energy coupled with forced electrification will prove to be the costliest mistake the UK has ever made.
All to save the planet by the unnecessary zeroing of our 1% contribution to global CO2 emissions.
August 18, 2023
And where is the pollution from the manufacture, distribution and disposal of solar panels etc accounted for?
August 18, 2023
dixie
Watch it play out. Russia and China have already taken control of many of the sources in Africa and S America of rare metals required for the electric revolution. Resources that will not fill the supply gap, in some cases for 100+ years. While there are fossil fuels available to us for hundreds of years and the tiny amount of CO2 released will be a net benefit.
August 19, 2023
@BOF – I don’t need to watch it play out to have an inkling of what will impact our children and grandchildren.
It has been clear for decades that we will be utterly dependent on energy and minerals and would need to identify critical materials, build some reserves and means to recycle.
Instead our governing classes have done bugger all but instead focus on diversity and climbing the greasy pole.
Meanwhile the consumers and commentators have adopted the locust lifestyle and attitude – strip resources bare – waste – move on. But there is increasing competition for dwindling access to those resources and our governing classes have been giving our way to means to trade effectively.
August 18, 2023
Indeed, Mark B. Didn’t the WEF recently announce that car ownership should be reduced by 70%, and then more recently that it’s time to end private car ownership completely?
August 18, 2023
”Starting in 2024 automakers selling in the UK will be required to sell increasing percentages of zero-emissions vehicles every year as the country moves to banning the sale of new, non-hybrid gasoline and diesel cars and vans in 2030”
They’re not just telling us what we can buy, but they’re telling manufacturers what they can make & sell ….very orwellian (whats next, bakeryâs can no longer bake & sell âwhiteâ bread)
August 18, 2023
glen
I think it is meat that’s next on the menu (pun intended). All this talk about bugs and cow flatulence. No mention of the fact that the biggest polluter of cow induced methane (I cannot believe I am writing this) is India. And as everyone knows, cows are sacred in the Hindu religion.
So we will have to eat bugs so India can keep its cows, and freeze in the dark so China can burn coal to manufacture tat to sell us.
It’s a mad world.
August 18, 2023
Mark B :
The Indians, the Dutch and the Irish should be pleased to learn this news I read on p 48 of the NGESO FES 2023 Report :
âThe Climate Change Committee has updated their methodology for calculating emissions
by removing climate feedback, aligning themselves with international agreements on
emissions reporting, and we have reflected this in our emissions modellingâŠâŠ.
The biggest impact is in the agricultural sector. Agricultural activity produces a mix of
methane, nitrous oxide, and carbon dioxide. Methane and nitrous oxide emissions are
more strongly influenced by climate feedback mechanisms. Removal of climate feedback
from the calculation leads to lower emissions than previously reported.â
This should also apply to CO2 emissionsâŠ.
https://www.nationalgrideso.com/document/283101/download
August 20, 2023
I usually agree with you.We have to worry about the balance of CO2 and O2 whilst other countries continue to fell trees without replanting or using alternatives.The dry lands war against each other and we prop them up by using those ethical feelings which certainly weren’t initiated by the war mongers.We are not a safety net for the whole world.
August 18, 2023
Nothing needs to change with our cars. Use technology to make them more efficient, same for coal and gas fired power stations, get fracking years of supply same for coal.
It is only the foolish stupid moronic politicians trying to virtue signal to a very small minority, same for idiotic trans issues etc. They need to wake up and smell the coffee of reality.
While at it start to represent the people who voted for them on the issues they promised to deliver. Stop lying and act with integrity- now who said thatâŠâŠ.. the. Sunak did the opposite (fracking, implement 2019 manifesto) and completely lost All trust. Funny that. Same old Same old.
August 18, 2023
Correct – No one in the far-east talks about net-zero, climate change or buying EVs …its not discussed because its not on their horizon, only in the UK
August 18, 2023
Indeed not alas âThe evolution of the carâ things should evolve to to suite, become more efficient and survive in their environments. This is a top down, government knows best, disaster.
August 18, 2023
Indeed. The 300 plus actions in the all legacy party Climate Change Committee under the Climate Change Act are all about control, regulation, taxation and boiling the frog little by little. It’s worrying that Government have legislated the % of electric cars that must be produced by private industry going forward. Plus the carbon credits etc. It’s definitely got the feel for the Communists 5 year plan that these eco nutters with their net zero religion think we’ll all comply. None of this is based on any science but the religious belief that CO2 is a bogey gas but NO EVIDENCE ANYWHERE to support it, just models that have proven to be incorrect and every weather event on the planet is assumed as evidence when its just the normal variations, as its always been.
August 18, 2023
Exactly.
Also one of the main problem with batteries is the very high cost, depreciation, recycling and rather short life of the EV batteries. Keeping your old petrol or diesel car, almost always, causes less CO2 than causing a new EV to be built. This even if they are charged on low carbon electricity and they will not be as we have almost none free.
You say âThere is also a parallel vision of owners of EVs seeing them as mobile batteries, using them to supplement the grid and then finding some time when they can recharge them.â
This make little sense as the extra depreciation of the battery usually costs you more than they would pay you to do it. EV batteries cost rather more than stationary battery systems as with the former they have to be light and safe under vibration and impacts. Why use mobile batteries or storage when stationary methods would be far cheaper. Also you want the car to be full most of the time incase you need to use it! In effect you are wasting part of the EV battery for grid storage then carrying the heavy think round all day in the car wasting more energy. Bonkers in engineering terms just another a sales con trick really.
EVs are emissions elsewhere cars usually more emmisions, also tyre wear is about 30% more as is car weight and so more dangerous for other road users hit by them and greater braking distances in some circumstances too.
August 18, 2023
One other issue with batteries, and EV cars more generally. They rely on a range of metals where the production process causes horrendous damage to the environment and where China has a largely monopoly supply. Not a great option for the future.
August 18, 2023
Indeed and huge amounts of fossil fuels are needed to extract these metals too. Recycling after their short life is not too easy either.
August 18, 2023
LL,
No need to explain or discuss. Moronic MPs do not have the intellect, or other characteristics, to act like normal rationale people based on national interest. Sunak allegedly, with banking background, has one of the worse economic or records in the history of our country. His dullard chancellor Hunt wants more taxes when at a 70 year high, but will not consider cutting back the state, cutting back welfare or stop illegal or legal migration against the publicâs wishes.
For 14 years JR has had no influence in the direction or creating policies of his socialist party. He has firmly side lined and ignored. We all support most of his conservative views but his party is no longer interested. He is kept to keep hope in voters that his party will change. 14 years of lies, spin and absolutely no delivery on key policy issues to get elected show this.
LL, you can repeat your mantra of tax, spend and piss down the drain as many times you like, we all agree, but JRs party has got worse in all these issues not a single improvement as a matter of fact and record.
Like JRs party you can make false claims Labour will be worse, but these lot have been worse than Ed Milibandâs Marxist energy policy who they ridiculed, and spent more than Corbyn wanted!!
August 18, 2023
It doesnât matter if âev batteriesâ are good or bad, its about freedom of choice.
The freedom of every citizen to choice their own type of transport and when & where to us it, free of government intervention
August 18, 2023
So Sunak is not going to stop ULEZ as he could and is not going to give us a referendum on net zero (he insanely thinks people are all behind it), is pushing up inflation, making the housing problems even worse, pushing up housing and rental cost with his open door illegal migrant agenda, is sticking to his vast tax increases through inflation and ULEZ⊠he seems determined to bury the Tory Party. So less than 100 Tory MP next year perhaps.
August 18, 2023
The only people Sunak knows ARE fully behind the Net Zero Lunacy. Remember, he admitted a few years ago, before he became a Minister, that he only knew very wealthy people and some middle class ….. but no working class people.
That social bubble will only have become smaller and more exclusive now.
He won’t stop ULEZ because he thinks it might help the Not-a-Conservative-Party’s non-entity candidate win the next Mayor election and may damage Labour in Constituencies on the outskirts and neighbouring Greater London in the General Election. Pure politics.
August 18, 2023
The new Mayoral candidate (I cannot even remember her name) seems to be even more of a nonentity than the, pleasant enough, but not too bright, last one!
Now he is another failed politician in the Lords!
August 18, 2023
Donna and LL,
The public voted against and rejected Mayors. EU wanted them. So JRs party ignored the public and installed them anyway! Same for police commissioners! Look at the state of policing and total lack of public trust. Brought to you by JRs party against All our wishes!!
August 18, 2023
+1
August 18, 2023
Lifelogic I suppose if Sunak is told enough times by (?) that the country is behind net zero and the demand for ‘cleaner air’ – he’ll believe it. Or he’s been told he’s got to do it ‘or else’. Who knows, but either way… it appears he’s not listening.
Driving around locally, the ULEZ posts with the required cameras are popping up ( with no permission from our council – Kahn over-ruled them) like huge weeds. We shall be like rats in a cage, once they go ‘online’!
August 18, 2023
I realise this doesnât accord with your world view but ⊠MOST people are behind it.
Go into your local town centre armed with a clipboard and ask 50 people at random âDo you think it is important for us to reach net zero to prevent irreversible climate change?â At least 49 of them will say âYesâ.
As so many people do – you believe you are right and that, therefore, most people share your views. You may well be right but the brainwashing has been effective and most people do not share your views on this subject.
August 18, 2023
That should have read âAt least 40 of them âŠ
August 18, 2023
Mike
Yes most of us would vote for saving the Planet, and are all for reducing pollution where we can and is sensible, but if the FULL COST of net Zero is put before them clearly, then I think there would not be as many as you suggest.
Many do not even have a clue as to what Net Zero actually means !
August 18, 2023
Berkshire Alan – but itâs more than people not understanding what net zero means – for them and to them. Itâs the mat people LifeLogic think that nearly everyone concurs with his views. That weâre all out here seething at the governmentâs actions. Iâd say that, if anything, a small majority of people think the government arenât taking it seriously or doing enough.
I realise itâs a small poll but, with the exception of me and my eldest brother, everyone I know is far more pro ânet zeroâ than the government.
It mildly annoys me when people like LifeLogic assume that everyone must share their view because they think they are so right about everything.
Personally Iâm sceptical but I much prefer the idea of clean energy.
August 18, 2023
ULEZ is part of Nut Zero. It does not seem popular with the people to me. But hey, maybe they all can afford ÂŁ12.50p / day on top of all the other costs.
August 18, 2023
That view isn’t shared by the drivers of the traffic that goes past our house.
August 18, 2023
Well they do this using BBC, charity, global bodies and government brain washing and conflating a “pleasant environment” with the idiotic “war on CO2”. Then they push endless weather porn blaming it on CO2 when it is not at all. Or they ask “do you believe in climate change?” (of course the climate changes always has always will mate).
It is a bit like asking would you like a free house but not telling them the house will actually cost them ÂŁ1million in extra taxes and energy costs.
Would you like to fight climate change and have a better environment? Yes of course many will reply.
Would you like to fight climate change and have a better environment and be forced to fit heat-pumps, new huge radiator, more insulation, buy an EV car costing about ÂŁ100K per house, live in 15 minute cities for zero climate benefit at all and in about 100 years time (the reality). 90% with surely replay “No thanks get lost”.
August 18, 2023
You asked a skewed question.
By linking “irreversible climate change” to net zero you baked in an assumption, which gets only one answer if the person answering is not savvy enough to see what you did and answer “I don’t believe there’s a connection”.
Ask “How certain are you that there is a connection between climate and man-made CO2” and you’d get a very different answer.
Same as if you ask: “Do you believe that we need to impoverish ourselves to reach net zero?”.
Or try: “Do you believe EVs and heat pumps are the only answer for our future?”.
You might get a lot of “Don’t know” if people are honest.
August 18, 2023
Disagree. Ask 100 people âwhy are the government pushing net zero?â and 99 will answer âbecause of climate changeâ. The link is inextricable.
Ask them âdo you think the government is right to pursue net zero?â and, again, 99 will agree.
My point stands. LifeLogic may be right but he is wrong to think most people agree with him. They donât.
August 18, 2023
ULEZ is government policy …don’t blame local councils nor the mayor of london
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1005301/transitioning-to-zero-emission-cars-vans-2035-delivery-plan.pdf
August 18, 2023
Indeed it is. The only way to stop the insane net zero is to try and get people educated as they have been brain washed by the Government and msm. GB News and a few others are starting the fightback. The costs, control, restrictions and misery they will impose will do there bit to ensure we all select a common sense Party and get rid of the legacies and their Climate Change Religion and mass immigration models.
August 18, 2023
I see the cameras are being âput out of actionâ all over London. You can push people so far, the people are saying âNOâ. Best to listen really.
August 18, 2023
“They do not tackle the issues of range, charger availability, charge time, lack of renewable electricity to recharge , CO 2 generated in creating the metals, minerals needed and making the batteries or the issues with scrapping.”
The ICE vehicle makers do not tackle the issues of fuel supply which depend on access to oil and I suspect there have been far more wars fought over oil than Lithium.
August 18, 2023
We have never been dependent on lithium, which is in very short supply. But you are right, give up oil and gas and there will be no wars. Nobody will be able to transport a soldier to the front. We will just become very very poor. Have you been to Africa? I advise you to visit Zimbabwe and view the Rhodesian Ruins. That is what you are proposing for all of the west.
August 18, 2023
Your laptops, watches, pacemakers, hearing aids, cameras, mobile phones etc are dependent on lithium.
You are wrong in your presumption … I have never advocated giving up oil and gas.
August 18, 2023
We have not had the modern necessities long.
So you were under the impression that âwe had no oil or gasâ? But now you know we have it under our feet in the U.K., you would support our call for it to be pumped and fast?
August 19, 2023
Computers, hearing aids, cameras, radio – 80+ years.
The oil and gas are not under our feet, it is under the sea bed, there is a significant difference.
When we had significantly more oil & gas it was pumped had and fast .. and sold overseas.
It appears we have exhausted the easy and cheap oil & gas.
If oil & gas are so critical why would we allow a commercial organisation to extract it and sell it off overseas?
Wouldn’t we look for alternatives, perhaps leave it under the sea bed until we cannot import it for economic or diplomatic reasons.
August 18, 2023
Perhaps they will organise battle fields with suitable recharging points for the tanks and a few hours of pause in the fighting so as to allow for the recharging! Aircraft might be a more of problem though.
August 18, 2023
Does anyone think China will rely on EV cars or this climate scam etc while still building coal fired power stations for their energy to sell goods and transport them around the world by diesel lorries, trains and ships!!! Same for India. Get real.
I wonder what country is behind creating all this nonsense in the West for their own good or world dominance? Perhaps Hunt could ask if wife why she contributes to Chinese TV with a country/regime behind such humanitarian atrocities? Why is our govt taking no action against China over Hong Kong, Covid, human rights etc but insisted on ESG, diversity, trans and all other minority rot here? Speak up JR, tell us.
August 18, 2023
đđ€Ł Faith, Hope and Charity – the Ukrainian war in a nutshell.
August 18, 2023
The people running the car companies must be right idiots if they are changing all their products to rely on something that is in âshort supplyâ.
Battery technology is evolving. I read recently someone is about to produce a battery that uses sodium in place of lithium. Iâm sure the people running BMW, the VAG group, Jaguar, Ford etc. are not complete fools.
August 18, 2023
Sodium-based batteries would have a lower power density than Lithium-based but the UK is small and the shorter range wouldn’t be as much a problem here as on the continents. Hopefully sodium batteries would be cheaper but an effective charging infrastructure would have to be in place though, regardless of chemistry.
August 18, 2023
Car manufacturing companies are just following the money, yesterday it was the private buyer margin making the profit, today its government subsidy making the profit
August 19, 2023
Car manufacturers are going bust.
August 19, 2023
Mark – Which one’s ?
August 18, 2023
Wars could not possibly erupt over Lithium though? All hail the sunny uplands of net zero where there will be no greed, no use of resources as a weapon/leverage or bargaining tool for more power to those who hold the majority stakes in Lithium.
August 18, 2023
Who said anything about net-zero? And there is more than one battery chemistry.
August 18, 2023
The rest of the world will still have the threat of war, as its only europe thatâs giving up oil âŠ.the rest of the world will continue using fossil fuels for the next millennium
August 18, 2023
A car fuel tank cost about ÂŁ100 can store about 1,000 KWHs of energy, can be refilled in about 3 mins, can last 50+ years and is very light and fairly small.
An EV battery costs circa ÂŁ15k, lasts only about 8 years before sig. decay, takes hours to refill, is heavy, hard to recycle, depreciates quickly, holds only circa 40kWhâŠthis in a nutshell is the problem with EV cars and even worse of EV trucks etc. Also for car heating you cannot use waste heat and have to further reduce the range!
August 18, 2023
Lifelogic
So a no brainer… the petrol /diesel car, is the car for the future. The second type you describe sounds totally outdated and inefficient.
Hmmm! Interesting that’s the one all governments want us to use.
August 18, 2023
They also advocated diesel cars not so long ago! Look how that went.
August 18, 2023
Batteries are even very heavy when empty too!
August 18, 2023
Liquid fuels are far better than batteries. We need to research technologies to economically synthesize them for when the oil runs out. That’s where the research should go, not in battery technology or hydrogen.
August 18, 2023
Indeed can be done just more expensive unless you have very cheap electricity to do it with. So use what we have left and R&D into fusion, better nuclear and fuel synthesis and better batteries/energy storage systems.
August 18, 2023
And the process of getting oil out of the ground and into your fuel tank is filthy and polluting. And if you stand in any city with traffic youâll choke on the fumes.
It took decades to go from the invention of the car to the mass production of good, reliable, efficient cars. EVs are in their infancy.
August 18, 2023
So too is lithium and other rare earth materials. Each has is pros and cons, neither is perfect and both are polluting.
August 18, 2023
Well we had electric cars and milk floats 70+ years back. We still need far better battery tech.
August 18, 2023
@Lifelogic A Tesla Model 3 battery will cost around $5k – 7K, not even half your invented ÂŁ15k.
A Tesla battery will last between 300,000 and 500,000 miles or around 1500 cycles so around 21 – 35 years, significantly longer than your 8 years. If you took their warranty period as your guide then I wouldn’t by an ICE which would only last 4 years by your measure. If and when a battery degrades it does so gradually, it doesn’t suddenly stop working.
Battery sizes vary, mid range EVs typically have ~60kWh batteries.
Lithium is not hard to recycle, it is currently not so economic because few EV batteries are failing.
My last EV depreciated less than my previous Mercedes.
It’s easy enough to find out this information so why do you concoct such rubbish, either you are too lazy to find things out or you are lying in the hope everyone else is ignorant and gullable.
August 18, 2023
Must be why nearly new second hand EV values are going through the floor – because their owners loved them so much and the rest know that they are not viable, economically or in any other aspect.
Funnily enough my father owned a battery factory. First National. Our batteries were super deep so that the plates were high – out of range all the dregs that collect at the bottom of the cells. People used to take our batteries out of the car when they scrapped it. Of course, these were not lithium batteries, the good old fashioned type that you topped up with water.
I had to work in the factory during school holidays to earn pocket money. Also learned to drive the Model T Ford van! It stood in the showroom and over the years all the paint on horizontal surfaces was eaten away by acid.
Batteries have always been pretty bad news, close up.
August 18, 2023
So why do most car companies only guarantee seven or eight years at circa 70% of capacity? Cleary the cost of the battery depends on the battery capacity/range. The larger ones do indeed cost ÂŁ15k to change.
August 18, 2023
This is not about cars, this is about control. As Friedrich Hayek once observed, “To be controlled in our economic pursuits means to be controlled in everything.”
I suspect our esteemed host knows the degree to which the State is taking control of our world and refuses to admit in public or he has simply accepted it out of weariness. Which is it, because we really need to know?
Dissent has become a de facto criminal act and I for one fear for the future though by the time barbarism arrives I shall be long gone, thank god
August 18, 2023
+++ Exactly. The car manufacturer dreaming of the coming ‘car pool’ (what a bloody awful thought) will no doubt be part of the unholy alliance sucking the life blood out of us, and at the very least promised a seat at the top table.
I don’t think the manufacturers detachment from consumers is all of their own doing, they’ve been following the masters who run our affairs, who are so detached now as to be in another orbit.
August 18, 2023
Spot on Dom. JRs party and govt are complicit it in allowing China to dominate the world by disgraceful means.
August 18, 2023
Michelle
I well remember a Company I used to work for many decades ago which had a so called pool car for use, nobody cleaned it, nobody filled it with fuel, no one took it to the garage for servicing, indeed no one knew when it even needed servicing, no one bothered to report minor dings or scratches, in short it looked like a scrap heap of a car when it was only 3 years old. The lesson was learnt, and it was never replaced !
Can you imagine the frustration of getting into an Electric car to find it with no charge when you had urgent business, you could not fill up in 10 mins !
August 18, 2023
Correct
August 18, 2023
Dom. I remember studying Spanish fascism of the “30’s. I found it very difficult to conceive of the fusion of big industry, state and an ultra wealthy elite, with the poor kept in their place by brute force, a lying media and a powerful church. I look around now and see the world they wanted (substitute climate change for catholicism).
August 18, 2023
Itâs called âcorporatismâ itâs the hallmark of fascism. Look at the EU and you will see it demonstrated.
August 18, 2023
It’s funny how train companies have been allowed to convert some diesel trains to run on waste vegetable oil, and call them “green”. Yet when car drivers try to run their diesel cars on vegetable oil the state hounds them like crazy, instead of making it easy to pay any extra fuel tax, they go all heavy handed.
Personally I want a new hyper efficient diesel or petrol car, far less polluting than the older tech diesel and petrol cars the electric car companies compare themselves with.
August 18, 2023
‘HS2 will not cut carbon emissions’
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/02/will-hs2-really-help-cut-the-uks-carbon-footprint
The most recent estimates (2020) from HS2 Ltd on emissions from construction of the full HS2 network are at between 8m and 14m tonnes of CO2e over the construction period, around 0.1% of current UK emissions on an annual basis
August 18, 2023
I don’t want a battery on wheels. I don’t want to buy a vehicle so I can provide energy to the grid because the Government’s lunatic policies have failed to supply the energy the country needs. I don’t want a pool car. I don’t want a self-driving car. I don’t want a car which is tracked everywhere I go for road pricing/surveillance. I don’t want a car which can be programmed to restrict my driving range or the number of miles I drive a year. I don’t want multiple gadgets and “technology” which is unnecessary and expensive to repair.
But what I want doesn’t matter to the Davos Authoritarians who are ruining this country.
What I DO want is a small, petrol-driven, unsophisticated, fuel and tax efficient, 5-door vehicle which will enable me to do all the things a householder, mother, relative and friend-of-many, wants and needs to do to run her life.
An EV won’t do that, and neither would a pool car. So I will be buying a replacement for my current car (see description above) before the Authoritarian Not-a-Conservative-Government bans them and since my annual mileage is low, it should see me out.
Oh and I don’t want another Authoritarian Not-a-Conservative-Government, so I won’t be voting for one.
August 18, 2023
I uptick
August 18, 2023
Indeed similar to my needs. I want a car that goes reliably for a good distance, sits in my drive, is ready to go at any time of the day or night, with decent tyres and brakes, a heater, windows, a radio and can be refilled with fuel for another 800 miles in 3 mins.
August 18, 2023
Totally agree with every word âŠ.remember saving up to buy your first car, remember just driving with the family not really going anywhere, remember the excitement of your first motorway drive, your first weekend away with friends âŠ.all fun, and this government has taken away the âfunâ, its taking away all those little things that make our lives enjoyable âŠits destroying those little moments that we remember and cherish âŠ.theyâre turning us into robots
August 18, 2023
I also want a car with a spare tyre, with no speaker to nag at me (I can always take the wife) and without those locking wheel nuts (you can never find the key for) and without a radio code needed whenever the battery is flat disconnected. Electric windows can be a pain too – when they fail as they often do. As do the self opening boots. Also I do not want the start stop when in traffic as it means you need a new second battery that costs circa ÂŁ340 or so after 5 years. But is saves you ÂŁ10 of fuel perhaps over that 5 years at best!
August 18, 2023
Even my left of centre friends, who believe thereâs a man made climate crisis, have chosen recently not to buy electric cars when the time came to replace their existing ones. Their âvision of the future car they wantâ is like mine – a fit for purpose attractive vehicle at least as convenient and economical as current modern petrol models. That is, not electric cars which are not fit for purpose and are old tech, having been around for some considerable years and shunned by the vast majority of buyers. The enthusiasts for them tend to be those that have bought them and try and rationalise their shortcomings. How many MPs who believe in a climate crisis own, or plan to soon buy, an electric car would you say Mr Redwood?
August 18, 2023
………………………….not fit for purpose and are old tech, having been around for some considerable years and shunned by the vast majority………………………..sounds just like unreliable windmills. Abandoned technology.
August 18, 2023
This is not evolution. These changes are to be imposed on car users and people in general. More examples of the removal of freedoms. Sir John is helping this along in using the word.
August 18, 2023
@The Prangwizard +1 its all about Control
August 18, 2023
Correct, evolution is organic growth and not forced by government intervention and market manipulation
August 18, 2023
There are some strange interconnections being spliced together to create a false paradigm in today’s world.
The whole discussion regarding cars is based on there being a Climate Crisis, partly caused by cars.
The flawed logic being, change the car’s engine and reduce the crisis.
The same flawed logic is used on populations. The message being pushed into the public is, too many people create too much demand for ‘stuff’. Stuff is bad for the planet, so we need to reduce the world population to reduce stuff.
These simple and misplaced concepts, have allowed malign government policies to be adopted and advanced by state agents.
The truth is somewhat different to the message being sent.
1. There is no Climate Crisis, we are enjoying one of the most benign periods of climate in recorded history. the average world temp is 14.14 deg. C. The temp is taken every minute using 60,000 weather stations, The world atmospheric temperature taken at two metres elevation, is very stable and has been for all the time the records have been kept.
Has the world temp increased in the past 175 years? Yes.
Is that increase unusual? Is it a problem? No.
The very gradual one Deg. C uptick is precisely in line with the change from a cold cycle to a warming one. post the little ice age. The contribution made by CO2 in that uptick is calculated to be about a tenth of a degree C.
2. World population is reaching a peak, it will be falling rapidly from 2050. The demographic are very clear. The greatest economic issue facing the world post 3050 will be depopulation. Only Africa will increase in population from a traditionally low population density.
With these facts in mind, do we really imagine the kind of car engine we choose will feature in discussions come 2050?
We are truly fiddling while civilisation declines.
August 18, 2023
That should read 2050 not 3050, sorry for the typo.
August 18, 2023
Uptick
August 18, 2023
+many
August 18, 2023
“too many people create too much demand for âstuffâ. Stuff is bad for the planet,” So why encourage people to scrap perfectly good cars to replace them with EV cars? Even using tax pay bribes with scrappage schemes!
August 18, 2023
Ashley, Never allow logic to enter into consideration when dealing with Green zealot thinking. đ
August 18, 2023
I want the selection of fabulous cars that were available in my youth, when we waited, bated breath for the next reveal. When the variety catered for all sorts of use and all sorts of people. When cars all looked different, felt different and were fun.
What I am not prepared to accept is this globalist political class which has a âdull grey uniformityâ mindset. It is they who are not fit for purpose and I fear the entire west in on the cusp of a HUGE revolution. People across the west no longer trust the democratic process, it is of no use to us as it does not provide competition amongst politicians to provide the best and least cost. All their captured institutions are also useless to us, a justice system that discriminates and does not provide justice, an Attack instead of a Defence Force – we donât want to Attack! And we certainly donât want to be defeated (watch out for the pictures of burned-out Challengers coming any hour now).
Our country is not only badly run but is aggressively attacked by the Government.
August 18, 2023
I am with you on the car release excitement in times past. Sadly we are now in the Trabants only car era.
I think it is something to do with the mindset of the Woke Climate Alarmist marchers that have taken over our institutions.
The days when a car like the E type Jaguar comes on the scene are long gone. We now live in a ‘woken’ Trabants only world. It is grey Trabants all the way down….
August 18, 2023
Itâs not just the cars. I remember driving down Empire Road in Johannesburg and blow me down a jumbo with a Concord strapped on its back sailed past me. They had brought Concord to the 6,000 ft high runway to see if it could take off and how much fuel it would use if it did in the rarefied air. Both airplanes were breathtaking.
The modern houses are dire as well – compare them to the cottages and Manor Houses produced before there were architects or Planning Departments.
All the joy and enthusiasm and fun seems to have been lost. We all dress in black – we are in mourning for all that we have lost. The United Kingdom and her 4 precious tribes.
August 18, 2023
Rishi has recently said that his plan his working. Before you ask ‘what plan’? it is the ‘do nothing and let the Economy sort itself out’ plan.
Never fails.
August 18, 2023
NA! Bingle, that is not what his orders are, he’s been told to destroy what used to be Great Britain.
We must fight SOON!
August 18, 2023
Personally Iâd like to go back to an ancient Moggy Minor bought for ÂŁ30 at an auction.
No seat belts , no heater no electric anything. Windscreen wipers that go more slowly up a hill.
Maybe one of those nice hand crank starters?
And it would be all mine. And it would do exactly as I told it. No bogus recalls. No ridiculous manufacturerâs alarums.
And the bloke at the garage could do any repairs standing on his head. No stupid computers needed.
I want to see oily gaskets and spark plugs again.
And an endless, empty, pre madness open road running through untainted countryside.
How could all this evil have been perpetrated and in in less than a lifetime?
August 18, 2023
Uptick
August 18, 2023
Sounds like you want to spend part of every weekend cleaning the plugs, setting the points, getting muck out of the float chamber, bleeding the brakes, putting Radweld in the radiator, bandaging the exhaust etc. I know thatâs what I spent the weekends if my youth doing – desperate to keep the car on the road so I could get to work.
Iâm happy to stick with my Toyotas which I only ever lift the bonnet on to fill the windscreen washer. Ooh, never have to clean these out anymore and donât have to pump a button either! Yeah, Iâll stick with a modern car.
August 18, 2023
Oh we have sacrificed so much for convenience.
And we will end up with nothing!
(I remember oil baths in kitchens. Not sure what was soaking in them. A whole engine? Cylinder block?)
August 18, 2023
Ah the good old MM sports – who would regularly collapse one of the front wheels due to kingpin failure. Hopefully not at speed – well, I say speed ⊠not something you associate with the old 0-60 in half an hour MInors.
August 18, 2023
Yes I had the Moggy king pin failure right outside my now wife’s house when I should have been in college. Funny now, not then!
August 18, 2023
That Moggy Minor probably has a lower carbon footprint than a new EV
August 18, 2023
++
And less likely to run out of âlectric or blow up?
August 18, 2023
It does and the new EV will only last 8 years or so not 60+
August 18, 2023
So both politicians AND manufacturers live in cloud cuckoo land.
Not only will most customers continue to shun ev’s for financial and practical reasons but there will remain the problem of sourcing sufficient materials for the batteries to replace all our existing cars.
What I and many will find objectionable is the level of control of our lives we will be handing to government and their agents, control they desire.
Then of course, the basis for this change, man made climate change and the war on CO2 is completely bogus with not a single scientific study to support it, just dodgy computer modelling.
August 18, 2023
Perhaps Sir John could tell us when this Agenda and the accompanying policies were put to the British people in a General Election Manifesto, and how we can vote against the WEF?
https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_The_Urban_Mobility_Scorecard_Tool_2023.pdf
“The World Economic Forum’s Global New Mobility Coalition (GNMC) seeks to accelerate a synchronized transition to shared, electric, connected and autonomous mobility (SEAM) solutions to provide for healthier cities, reduce carbon emissions and improve mobility efficiency, while creating new business opportunities, GNMC is a multistakeholder coalition that advances industry and policy collaboration for informing efficient, impactful and feasible actions that can advance the vision for people-centered, compact and electrified cities.”
(If you don’t live in a city, you don’t matter.)
August 18, 2023
Well Donna I definitely don’t live or want to live in a city. However, I know how to grow spuds, snare rabbits, and find other food to live a healthy life, so NO we don’t matter OR care!
August 18, 2023
In a free market EVs would not exist in any large numbers. Thy are extremely poluting, expensive, unreliable, dangerous and short ranged. They exist because of political agendas, subsidies and lack of knowledge on the part of buyers. If you want environmentally friendly cars low stressed, lightweight, simply built diesel cars are the answer. They are the exact opposite of the enormous, heavy, complicated EVs that we are told we must have.
August 18, 2023
When will we see electric private jets that many of those who preach to us about our destruction of the planet love to hop on and off of?
Perhaps there could be a pool of those too!!
Not forgetting the super yachts, huge guzzlers of fuel, another favourite toy and haunt of those who are concerned about the climate.
August 18, 2023
All I want is a car that’s functional and gets me from A to B. No bells and whistles, touch screens or other unnecessary distractions!
August 18, 2023
Sorry, slightly off topic but to do with energy generation. I have received a quote from a design company for a smallish building. It includes this paragraph.
â I do agree with your frustrations Lynn and currently given the cost of electricity is still so much higher than fossil fuel alternatives, even a very efficient heat pump can still cost more to run than fossil fuel alternatives so I really appreciate that this justification is difficult.â
I can supply the rest of the laughable letter Sir John, if it would be useful. They estimate that the cost of running the Heat Pump @ circa ÂŁ9,000.00 Pa. My current total energy bill in that building is ÂŁ2,490.00 pa. The Govt will contribute ÂŁ6,000 (of my own money) to the ÂŁ36,000 installation costs đ€Ż
August 18, 2023
“even a very efficient heat pump can still cost more to run than fossil fuel alternatives” invariably it does cost more to run, more to install, needs larger radiators and more to maintain. Also often the electricity supply cannot cope so an expensive upgrade. Run least efficiently when you need more heat during the cold periods too. Also you have to keep it on as otherwise it can take ages to reheat the house after a winter holiday for example. So more wasted energy.
August 18, 2023
Lynn Atkinson
Laughable it would be, if it did not demonstrate the complete stupidity, ignorance, incompetence or perhaps pig headedness of our law makers to pursue an agenda completely at odds with the financial interests of the country and with no scientific basis.
August 18, 2023
đđ» and you canât get an upgraded EPC without some sort of âheat pumpâ. Banks will fund nothing below E and in 5 years their bottom line is C. They are also factoring in ârecession proofingâ – so expect a lot of unremortgagable property to be in a fire sale soon.
However the State is cheating again so that its targets can be met. It has âcreatedâ an A+ EPC rating so that all the reports will have âinflatedâ results, thus a D this year will get a C in 5 years.
So the âeducationâ department is teaching something – how the state can cheat!
August 18, 2023
I would like a car which you refuel like now. Connect a hose, press the lever, wait 5 min at most, pay, and then drive around for another 300miles plus before having to refuel again. Refuelling points where petrol stations are now. The car made of mostly recycled and recyclable materials.
A small 12v battery to keep the minimum amount of computer power going. This looks like a hydrogen powered car to me. When driving you should focus on the road only, in theory that is, so the minimum of distractions and controls to operate the car safely should be the aim of modern car design. About the same as you find in a 15 year old car with stick on satnav and hands free mobile. You can take development too far once you find something that works well.
Especially if it is not really an improvement of the basic design. I think the classic example is modern car lights which are no longer circular or signal in the way they did just twenty years ago. Just for show and to be different rather than a signalling improvement and lighting the road ahead.
August 18, 2023
Rust used to be the scourge that car makers chose to keep blinkered about for decades. Now they’ve found much more to be naive about.
August 18, 2023
Indeed just galvanising sorted that one if you bought a decent car!
August 18, 2023
May we know which company? The dissident in this sector is Mr Toyoda the chairman of Toyota who appears to be the one considering what his customers might actually want and need. I think heâs the one to listen to.
I would like to own my own car, and do not want any arrangement under which it can be disabled remotely, or limited as to usage by some exterior power, whether thatâs the manufacturer, a left-wing govt in the U.K. or the CCP.
Reply I did not wish to personalise it to one maker. It is a large European manufacturer who does not make in the UK. Many car companies think the same.
August 18, 2023
OK. With a few exceptions there does seem to be a broad consensus.
August 18, 2023
Sir John: “What is your vision of the future car you want?”
The thousands of us ordinary plebs who look upon the car as a cornerstone symbol of freedom, as well as a means of getting from A to B: “One that unequivocally respects the principle ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t mend it’.”
August 18, 2023
It sounds like a 15 minute city future. God forbid.
August 18, 2023
“What is your vision of the future car you want?”
A medium sized petrol powered ICE car. Not unlike my current vehicle. And that is what I’ll have until I either become unable to drive or die.
(The ban on manufacture of ICE cars is seven years away. If I replace my car six years from now, that will outlast me)
August 18, 2023
Evolution used to be driven by customer demand, and research and development, now it is by Government decree, and increasing taxation.
The one thing Central and Local Government are responsible for, (good and safe roads on which to drive) they have failed.
August 18, 2023
When focus for energy rests in a very narrow band then it becomes certain that it will fail. There must be other technologies that were either forgotten, suppressed or not followed through with.
Steam has always been a powerful source of energy, but not exploited in this modern age.
As previously mentioned in this Diary, petrol cars have evolved greatly from what they were, and with a little bit of initiative and invention, they could go very much further, but not while we are stuck with the ‘Keep it in the ground’ mantra.
Even if electricity suddenly became cheap and plentiful, the powers that be would find some ways for it to be suppressed, because we all know that netzero was never about Co2, it was about creating a new order where the masses are kept in their place. Travel is only for the global elite.
August 18, 2023
BH
Plus many!
August 18, 2023
…..Even if electricity suddenly became cheap and plentiful, the powers that be would find some ways for it to be suppressed…..
They have already found a way, because by Law now, all new home charging points MUST be smart, hence remotely controlled capable (on/off) or, maybe worse, suck power out of the battery to help the failing supply side.
August 18, 2023
Reliable, comfortable, economical 70+mpg, range 700 miles, just like my existing diesel with 107gms/km or less and ÂŁ20 annual road tax.
August 18, 2023
The motor industry or parts of it will make a great mistake if they ignore the wishes of the market. They will do what politicians and the parallel unelected blob have done for the past ten years, dismiss the people, but as they are realising at their peril.
As to what I want from car makers in the future, at my age it is irrelevant. I had my fun competing at national and international events in the 60s. Sadly I have just lost two friends who were part of that endeavour. At the moment I have a building project to deal with, but in March I intend buying a second hand version of something suitable for touring the Continent in comfort. I have looked at F Types, Bentley Continentals, BMW840d,s, but it will be a toss up between a Lexus LC500 and a BMW i8. Both similar to cars I enjoyed before moving to Spain. I checked whether I could get into and out of the latter last week. All of the above could be bought for the same or less than a new version of the Qashqai I happily ran in Spain. I enjoy my driving and will leave the future to those entering it. They can always watch the real thing on TV.
August 18, 2023
The cynic in me also see what they are moving to is a subscription based service. Following the trend in the PC/Devices World you buy the hardware then pay on a subscription basis to rent and have updates to the software that enables and controls the car. It is already happening in incremental ways.
Is that modern day slavery or entrapment?
August 18, 2023
The evolution, concept and future design comes from the profit makers, and thatâs no longer the private customer its government subsidy (plant build, manufacturing, charger infrastructure, purchase & usage), its subsidised throughout its life-cycle.
Its governments that now provide the profit to vehicle manufacturers, therefore they, and they alone, decide the future concept on motor vehicles and not the private buyer.
The whole vehicle manufacturing market-place has become Orwellian âŠMarx himself would be proud of the government control
Remove all subsidies and allow market to find its own place, a place dictated by consumer buying need, want & behaviour
If people want âgreenâ theyâll buy âgreenâ âŠin a free society, we shouldnât have government interventions & social engineering to pushing âgreenâ on to us (if we wanted that; we wouldâve voted for a âgreenâ party)
August 18, 2023
“They expect there to be car pools and systems to summons a vehicle when you need one.”
What belongs to everyone is loved by nobody.
PS Today 1.5% of our electricity is generated by coal. Please open the new coal mine at Whitby and level up the North.
August 18, 2023
I think penalising owners/users of cars presents a dichotomy in the future. Government wants to send mesages about what is good for the population, it wants tax from their activities, it wants control of the action, and to increasing extent control of their views. Media control, transport movements, monitoring more and more of lives, including leisure time brings us ever nearer societal managing.
Cars could become state tools for movement, not person owned. Gradually the freedom and availabilty could be reduced to curtail certain car usage. It will be argued moving to green measures is good for the planet, the people, the safety, their health.
August 18, 2023
Does the car have a future?
Who knows . Plans for 15 min prisons and Net Zero would suggest not.
But what about us? Do we have a future?
After the plandemic when all we had suspected ( lies etc) was confirmed I thought that maybe the Wealthy Few might give up or at least soften their plans. Retreat a little.
But noâŠon they forge like some iron clad galleon intent on maximum destruction.
I now doubt if we have much of a future.
Or if we do it will be an uber miserable one.
August 18, 2023
Everhopeful
I have just one firm commitment. As far as possible, NEVER COMPLY. Never live in fear of authority or your fellow man because, once you do, you have forfeited your liberty.
August 18, 2023
100 % BOF, fight as our fathers did. I will!
August 18, 2023
The one factor that no one has so far mentioned
Does anyone imagine that the population will meekly submit to this treatment?
There will be rioting in the streets, will our paramilitary police be called upon to suppress this, Civil War upon the streets of our country again
August 18, 2023
The English population will submit. They are the most stupid race on earth.
August 18, 2023
I’d agree over the last 20 years. Media taken to heart, a bit like the Bible – must be true.
August 18, 2023
++
Or are they importing a new, young army for the quelling?
I doubt that there will be any trouble however. Propaganda and nudging always work here.
And it is all for our own good and protection after all!
August 18, 2023
They did to wearing masks. Putting themselves under house arrest. Submitting to behavioural control (banging pots and pans every Thursday at around 6pm). And worst of all, taking an unproven vaccine with unknown side effects. And on top of all that – Believing an man can be a woman and have period pains and babies. Believing a trace gas will end all life. And that the end of the world is nigh.
So on balance, I’d say YES, yes they would submit.
August 18, 2023
This is quite the point.
How will they keep control, our Police force struggle to maintain order and keep the streets open when only 0.001% percent protest and the rest support law &order.
Why do these ‘elites’ think they will be tolerated, or allowed to exist. Hiding in gated compounds?, who will be the caged? How will the minions be persuaded to give service; how will the grading be accorded, is there a working model?
August 18, 2023
Cant wait to hear all the excuses when the Tory party goes down at the next election. I suspect that most of the MPs losing their seats will then be expressing their disbelief in climate change, would never support EV cars, in favour of fracking, defunding of the BBC, turning the boats back and revoking ECHR, implementing all the post Brexit legislation promised in 2019 and before, giving our fishermen a fair deal and so it goes on…
August 18, 2023
But Sir John won’t be one of these. He will never attack his party. If it said we must all wear straw shoes, if he didn’t like it he would only say we were not allowed enough time to change.
Reply Give it a break. I have often opposed policies and views of my party.
August 18, 2023
Those rose tinted glasses will be coming off soon
August 18, 2023
No, they will just say; “We should have listened.”
August 18, 2023
I have read 75 MPs have already stated they are ‘standing down’. Possibly 50 are Tory.
Then we will have the swing to decimate a lot more. Perhaps the lemming newbies proposed will get trounced too?
August 18, 2023
Electric Cars based on known technology and knowledge are at best disposable commodities. The currently not capable of a serviceable life as we know it for transport.
Put a ICE vehicle in a Garage and donât use it for 12 months, and you have added 12 months to its life. Try similar with a BEV and you have lost 12 months of its life. A BEV is constantly and needs to always powered on, the batteryâs are affected by both heat and cold so need power just to maintain an existence.
Is this the Governments Policy to increase World CO2 by always re-manufacturing, or forgive me for saying this are our MPâs in the HoC just thick. Our Legislators keep coming up with plans that achieve the complete opposite to the seemingly well intentioned âwordsâ .
August 18, 2023
My Land Rover Defender (the current version) is very satisfactory and an extremely useful all rounder. It can carry four people and their luggage in comfort, with good economy at speed on motorways, can traverse many different types of terrain with ease, can wade streams and rivers up to nearly three feet deep, can carry nearly 1 ton payload, can tow up to 3.5 tons (not that I do), is both quiet and a pleasure to drive. What it is not is an extreme rock crawler or a sports car, but neither feature is needed by me. A full tank of diesel provides a range of c600 miles. The elevated driving position offers a great view of the road ahead. It is supplemented by good camera views around the vehicle. I am unable to think of other features I need or want.
I wouldn’t touch current EV battery tech with a barge pole. It is a fire risk and soon will become obsolete as safer, more efficient solid state batteries appear. Regulation will promote their use in cities or in confined circumstances where extended range is not needed such as factories, airports or farms.
August 18, 2023
But they cost ÂŁ60k plus. I have a nice VW Golf cab and Volvo V70 worth about ÂŁ2000 for both! Covers all I need. But they are trying to force them off the road with ULEZ etc.
August 18, 2023
“These companies are becoming very detached from customers and practicalities.”
That’s understandable enough since manufacturers are working to the anticipated constraints imposed by regulators rather than the free choices of motorists. All the additional electronic tinsel is on the periphery like the watercress garnishing on the edge of the plate.
That aside, there is a growing tendency for businesses to espouse and declare their “values” and then attempt to inculcate the happless consumer with a view to his betterment. Amusingly this doesn’t always produce the desired outcome.
August 18, 2023
The greatest risk to ownership of a car is government policy. We all understand performance, comfort, depreciation and reliability of cars powered by internal combustion engines. Changing to all-electric introduces fundamental variables controlled by the government whose actions are hard to predict and not intended to make cars more useful or faster, nor more comfortable, safer or reliable and will place the single fuel source entirely in the hands of the government. That is high risk. Furthermore the technolgies are immature so much of a car bought today will rapidly become obsolete. Depreciation will be rapid.
The buyer has no risk mitigation options open to him. Many would choose a hybrid as a risk mitigation measure but that option has been blocked.
The debate about energy recognises the dependence on China for the critical minerals need for Green Energy but few people seem to have followed it through to the down stream dependence on China for transportation. Without transportation the economy cannot function. The EU is hoping to reduce its dependency on China by gaining control of Ukraine’s vast mineral reserves, including US$12 trillion worth of rare earths and lithium. It was on that basis plus Ukraine agreeing to sign over its future government to the EU that gained it weapons from Germany, which had until then been refused. The UK has a critical minerals list but how will it reduce its dependency on China?
Back in 1901 the world land speed record was held by an electric vehicle. The invention of the internal combustion engine killed it off in a free market. Fully electric, hydrogen and other technologies for vehicles should be developed until they can compete fairly in a free market and should not be mandated. The government should also allow hybrids.
Australia may yet make a stupid mistake but at least it has not mandated all-electric vehicles by a fixed date regardless of the costs and risks.
August 18, 2023
âThere is also a parallel vision of owners of EVs seeing them as mobile batteries, using them to supplement the grid and then finding some time when they can recharge them.â
What happened to the promise on P19 of the Net Zero Strategy :
âOur power system will consist of abundant, cheap British renewables, cutting edge new nuclear power stations, and be underpinned by flexibility including storage, gas with CCS, hydrogen and ensure reliable power is always there at the flick of a switch.â?
August 18, 2023
I’d be interested the answer as well.
August 18, 2023
maybe a para misprint? A naughty secretary somewhere with a sense of humour?
August 18, 2023
What happened? It was and is a load of lies by people who want to make a lot of money out of nut zero, It was the same lies as in in the 1950’s. We will not get cheap abundant energy – it doesn’t fit with the narrative. Never believe what a politician tells you, it is either wrong or a lie. They are mostly short termists and I have never heard of a poor one.
August 18, 2023
I see that St.Swithins weather predictions have been spot on
August 18, 2023
They better not threaten hosepipe bans.
August 18, 2023
Home Office data 17th August
Illegal Economic Criminal Immigrants â 111
Illegal Boats â 2
August 18, 2023
To add: The total over the last 8 days 10/8 to 17/8 inclusive is 2275 in 42 boats. Where are they now?
August 18, 2023
Deportations and returns to France-Nil. English taxpayers footing the incompetent Government’s bill.
August 18, 2023
‘traitorous government’
August 18, 2023
…and will remain at ‘nil’ till we have a party of Reform in government
August 18, 2023
But the boats are stopping ….on the beach or slipway near Dover.
August 18, 2023
The number of migrants setting off for Britain from Belgium fell by 90 per cent to fewer than 1,000 after its government launched a crackdown, including stopping them at sea, it has emerged.
Belgian ministers have revealed that the stricter measures led to the number of âtransitingâ migrants intercepted by police falling from 12,800 in 2018 to 944 last year.
Unlike the French, the Belgians intercept at sea, while other measures include increased police checks and tougher penalties for people smugglers.
The Belgian government also changed the law to allow officials to seize migrantsâ phones and extract the data to help identify the people smugglers.
Q E D
August 18, 2023
excellent ….hope the French realise that the pull factor stops if you block the route
August 18, 2023
The use of evs will need to be severely restricted because of the risk of lithium battery fires.
These batteries do not have to undergo physical abuse to cause an explosive fire, it can just happen through exposure to high humidity and Common Mode Voltage (Noise) and the vapour cloud of a runaway fire can contain hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen chloride and hydrogen cyanide, all very nasty.
The lithium battery ‘fire’ is an exothermic chemical reaction and no amount of powder, water or inert gas is going to stop it, All that can be done is to contain or isolate it which is not possible on a ferry, on a channel tunnel train, motorway pile up, multistorey/underground car park , house garage, or service workshop
August 18, 2023
a ‘fire’ is always exothermic !
Presumably an ICE vehicle only emits unicorn farts when it burns, no toxic emissions there?
August 18, 2023
+1 should they be under or next to houses, on RORO ferries, the channel/Mont Blanc tunnel, trains, flights, charging bikes/scooters in the halls of 20 story blocks of flats…?
August 18, 2023
There probably never was a more error-strewn direction of travel. What should have happened is that in 2010 the motor industry should have been given 20-25 years to produce a zero CO2 emission internal combustion engine, which would have been achieved. The car I want does what I want it to do, without interference from its on-board systems or from do-gooder lefty politicians whose authoritarian instincts have been fuelled by the Covid “crisis”. I have had the freedom to travel where I want to by car for 60 years, and it is that freedom and so many others that in so many ways the “powers that be” are seeking to curtail.
August 18, 2023
Indeed but the Covid lockdowns and the coercing of Net Harm Vaccines, even into the young was surely even worse.
August 18, 2023
Hi john
We will need a car in the future as we do today,
Affordable to buy.
Reliable and affordable to maintain.
affordable to run.
comfortable to drive for long periods.
With understandable technology.
All the thing’s we need in a car to day
Thank you
August 18, 2023
The “electric car” ideas are fuelled(!) by the unelected sector and media and little to do with the environment imho.
Electric aside, I do indeed see a good market for automatic cars (however they are powered) that you summon on your phone or computer.
Travellers will have a choice of a cheap shared journey or a more expensive journey if they do not want to share. The size of car, in-car entertainment (movies etc), smoking/non-smoking etc, baby facilities etc will also vary the cost.
A system such as this would reduce traffic on the roads and make travelling safer.
I am surprised that a car manufacturer sees this vision as positive as it will result in less cars imho. However, I think it will be popular as it will be convenient and cost less than running your own car.
August 18, 2023
Like farmers subsidised/paid not to grow food, and wind-turbine energy generators subsidised/paid not to produce electricity âŠ.vehicle manufacturers will be subsidised /paid not to produce cars
August 18, 2023
We are at a cross road where the present is not as good as the past . Car manufacturers have their eyes only on electric battery driven cars . We -the ordinary person in the market place , have little or no choice in this matter . I will not buy one no matter what .
August 18, 2023
Gets my vote ….I’ll never buy one so long as our government enforces the 2030 ban
August 19, 2023
I’ll never buy one either. I can’t imagine being able to ‘waste’ ÂŁ25k+ on a problematic car.
Some of us have to be careful with our spending, once gone, it is GONE.
August 18, 2023
They also take no account of the human rights abuses, exploitation and environmental damage involved in their electric dream.
August 18, 2023
“There is also a parallel vision of owners of EVs seeing them as mobile batteries, using them to supplement the grid and then finding some time when they can recharge them.”
That is not a vision of most EV owners I have talked to. And those who have pondered that position changed their minds pretty quick when the 10 year lifetime of house batteries is pointed out.
August 18, 2023
âThey see the future as all electric. â
Of course they do because your party is banning all other types of fuel. If they didnât follow this course they will be out of business in 7 years.
You are lining up riots in the streets if your party continues with this policy. Most people canât afford an electric car and many, who can, including myself, donât want one.
Just leave us alone. Iâm sick of this faux climate emergency. Anybody who studies it knows itâs a load of nonsense. If this Government really believed in it they would cut immigration which would cut emissions, but they donât.
August 18, 2023
CHRITINE – Our globalist UK Establishment government are following the WEF NWO agenda and its starts at the VERY top. The people are irrelevant.
August 18, 2023
The Met Police had recorded 288 crimes relating to ULEZ cameras as of August 1.
Commander Owain Richards said: “These are clearly unacceptable acts of criminality and we have a team of officers investigating and identifying those responsible.
Donât we wish the Met would put a team of officers in place to investigate the increase in other crimes, like home intrusions? They have their priorities all wrong. People donât want ULEZ or to be forced to buy electric cars and heat pumps.
Just leave us alone. We used to be happy until you politicians interfered with our lives.
August 18, 2023
accidently having the camera sprayed, post bent, glass broken? Who would have thought it?
August 18, 2023
The police won’t turn up for burglary. Government/Local Authority/Big Corporate property is far more important than private property, always has been. When I had my shop broken into in the 90’s they were not interested, I had cc tv images of the culprits’ faces, but they ‘lost’ the tape, but when a major supermarket had someone pinch a bottle of whisky it was all blues and twos and officers piling out of a squad car wearing shades. So it is not a new phenomena.
August 18, 2023
CHRISTINE – Donald Trump when first in office signed an Executive Order combatting human sex trafficking and on line child exploitation. Child and human trafficking is a World Wide “business” so how about about the police invesrigating child trafficking and pedophelia within our society.
August 18, 2023
Was the ULEZ law meant to imprison us ? why wasn’t it in the 2019 manifesto ?, why aren’t they reversing the policy ?
August 18, 2023
It seems to me that a sensible compromise for the next few decades would be advanced plug-in Hybrid vehicles that can switch power sources as required (or as instructed).
They require smaller batteries (for a battery-only range of about 30 miles) and make more efficient use of the main power plant, be that petrol or perhaps eventually hydrogen. I would certainly consider such a vehicle, as it would cater for my shorter local journeys, as well as my longer trips. In terms of any ULEZ – my vehicle could switch automatically to battery power as I drive through it for example. If these smaller batteries were easily replaced, then so much the better…
Unfortunately, the Government has banned all Hybrids from 2035, which is probably about the same time they will start to become more fully developed and perhpas even affordable. This hybrid apprach would also ease any transition away from fossil fuels without the total hair shirt approach currently advocated. The 2035 ban is just another short sighted, frankly stupid Government policy that can only harm our economy and peoples freedoms.
August 18, 2023
My wife & I have the cars we want, she has a low cost runaround and I have a 30 year old workhorse, comfortable and perfect for long runs.
Seven miles from the nearest town, and subject to continual power cuts – usually fallen trees, no gas.
I’ve upgraded my fuel lines, rotted by unleaded, could upgrade my cat from Euro2 to Euro4 and be ULEZ compliant, but “they” won’t let me !
My Matra & I only do 2,000 miles a year, but when I need to carry the kitchen sink, tow something, or just must go – we have instant liftoff.
My wife could ‘go electric’, a Mini ?; I would prefer synthetic petrol, and HVO for the AGA, no point in insulation – the bedroom window is open 24/365.
The only way to hit a target of x% electric cars is to limit the availability of the alternatives, so we will have compulsory depression in our motor industry, open season for the Chinese and price escalation of ‘compliant’ cars with longevity inhibited design – sorry, Sir, it isn’t economically viable to repair your handbrake system the car needs to be scrapped.
August 18, 2023
The shambolic government approach to our car industry is merely a symptom of a wider malaise of governing without reference to the people. Couple it with:-
1. The war on cash.
2. Bank arbitary closure of accouunts.
3. Nett Zero.
4. Government change by coupe.
5. Open borders
6. Energy policy insanity.
7. ULEZ.
Properly presented, the votes in 2024 will go to the party prepared to tackle the above instances of utter nonesense.
August 18, 2023
I can understand the incompetence of governments handling of brexit, I understand the conspiracies surrounding the our international treaties and I have misgivings over the windsor accord âŠ.but for the hell of me I canât understand the communist view of controlling, banning and shaping the collective future of our vehicles without consent of the people âŠa step to far too the left
August 18, 2023
Agricola – You appear to be a someone who is awake (not woke) but surely you MUST be aware that at this point in time the LIBLABCONGRN parties all the same following the the Globalist WEF protocol.
The REFORM party is very new and our corrupt voting system will ensure they will not win until our whole system of government is changed.
Donald Trump talks regularly about draing the swamp and we need to drain our swamp.
Remember Nothing can stop what is coming, NOTHING.
August 18, 2023
Freedom of choice for the consumer to decide instead of governments and supranational agencies dictating everything should be of utmost importance. Vehicles and driving them are being made prohibitively expensive, a pursuit of the elite and their chauffeurs. If people do not want to drive and would rather take a bike then allow them to choose rather than forcing the car off the road. If a consumer wants a cheaper ICE car over a polluting battery vehicle, let them choose. If a consumer wants a basic car rather than one filled with expensive gadgets that will be expensive to repair, let them choose. If there is no freedom to choose there is no freedom and we have socialism.
August 18, 2023
I would like it to have the range my car has. If it has fewer components to go wrong, that would be an improvement (the only discernible advanatage to EVs).
If e-fuels or hydrogen can be uised with existing technology, including heating boilers and car fuels… that might be best of a poor set of choices, given that the scientifically-illiterate MPs who call themselves our “leaders” are worshipping thoughtlessly at the altar of climate change.
I see the German car industry has not gone down the EV route. They are looking at e-fuels – to maintain their engineering advantage of course. They have bet the house on it, in a sense.
August 18, 2023
JR – Can we please dispense the the continual mention of CO2. It is part of our evolution.
August 18, 2023
From the Media – âUnder plans for a so-called âZEV mandateâ, British car makers would from 2024 have to ensure that at least 22 per cent of all their new cars, and 10 per cent of their vans, are electric-powered.â
A couple of flaws there, there are no British car makers. We have Foreign assembly plants.
So is Rishi trying to get rid even more UK Manufacturing?
The next flaw is what passes as a UK electric-powered vehicle is primarily using foreign(mainly Chinese) components. More World pollution than any potential saving.
The real bone of contention, should the UK taxpayer be funding these foreign EVâs. In real terms we have the UK Taxpayer funding the tax regimes of foreign States, which is particularly galling when there is no reciprocal arrangements with them.
The Government needs to wake up, even the EU is saying that 65% of a vehicle should be home Country produced. The US goes further in that the Companies have to be US based, before they get tax handouts. This UK Conservative Government attitude â its only the taxpayers money lets throw it any where, it will make us look and help my personal ego.
Why-o-why cant UK Taxpayer money be used to support UK Industry instead of being exported to the Worlds Greatest polluters?
August 18, 2023
@Ian B
Forcing the UK Taxpayer to fund World pollution in this manner is a kick in the teeth for all those that work their socks of to keep this Country going
August 18, 2023
Agree ….and if you removed all the EV subsidy would people still buy them …NO
August 18, 2023
Sitting on a train… Lady next to me talking to her friend… Complaining that she has been told that her next company car MUST be an electric car. So, for many people they are not really being given a choice.
August 18, 2023
Copied from a msg…unknown origin.
An illegal immigrant is met at Dover by a Good Fairy. She grants him 3 wishes.
He says I want to eat. POW! A huge banquet appears.
He says I want a nice house. POW! A hotel with swimming pool appears.
He says I want to be British. In a flash the banquet is gone, the hotel disappears.
He asks where has everything gone?
The Fairy says ‘You are British now mate, you are entitled to sod all!’
August 19, 2023
“more automated vehicles” – a concept that begs the question, for every ‘automated’ feature is based on choices, restrictions, value judgements and parameters programmed into the automation. Programmed by whom? If you think the driver will have any control over the ‘automated programmes’ you can think again. Speed limits, driving hours limits, driving miles limits, rationed road/electricity use, detailed computerised records of every journey and whatever is said within the vehicle being fed to a centralized ‘Government Control Point’; precautionary’ features that refuse an order by the user, a computer voice that says ‘You must now phone the police and admit your parking/ red light//diversity intolerance infringement, or your engine will be immobilised.’ Doors that deliberately lock driver and passengers in at an order from an external AI trigger. Which could also trigger self-destruction of a vehicle. That is the future of ‘automation’.
As Hal 9000 memorably said in ‘2001’: ‘This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.’
August 19, 2023
I was in a riot once, I in my car took a turn and found myself surrounded. I spun the wheels, making a lot of noise and smoke, convincing them I was a mad man and they should get out of the way, while I actually had the car fully under control. It worked, the crowd parted and I was able to escape. I would not have been able to do that in a car with traction control. So sometimes driver aids are not good.
August 19, 2023
Why is everyone taking the pleasure out of life? I remember when I got my first MG (manufactured in Oxfordshire and a proper sports car) it making all the noises these beauties did. A noiseless car takes the biscuit but is useful on urban roads when people in houses want some peace.
August 19, 2023
We want “clean” internal combustion engines running on methanol and gasoline mixture and or hydrogen. We should applaud JCB in the UK for developing a NOX free hydrogen combustion engine in this country and support British industry.
August 20, 2023
If it is NOx free it relies on Adblue. They managed NOx free with diesel too the same way.
August 19, 2023
I have a larger estate car. It offers excellent air conditioned comfort, handles extremely well around country lanes (the Hardknott and Wrynose passes in the Lake District dealt with with aplomb by the high torque at low revs from the diesel engine) yet cruises effortlessly on motorways, cavernous space for any loads I might want to carry reducing the number of shopping trips needed, comfortable space for larger dogs with a tailgate height that doesn’t require an 8ft ramp to help them get in and out and allows you to sit alongside while towelling off after a wet/muddy walk. It offers a range of over 700 miles on a fill up, a good sound system and just about all the automation I would want (and importantly none of the automation I would not want, although perhaps if I became unable to drive in my dotage I might value an automated taxi).
It is becoming more expensive to maintain, being an older vehicle. However, few manufacturers are offering similar vehicles new any more. I am on the lookout for one of the last of the Mohicans which I would hope to keep going Cuban style if necessary. It is disappointing that I cannot look forward to future improvements e.g. in fuel economy and perhaps an automatic gearbox (the present car has an excellent manual transmission).
August 20, 2023
I usually agree with you.We have to worry about the balance of CO2 and O2 whilst other countries continue to fell trees without replanting or using alternatives.The dry lands war against each other and we prop them up by using those ethical feelings which certainly weren’t initiated by the war mongers.We are not a safety net for the whole world.
August 21, 2023
As always Sir John, ton the point.