The law lays down that the maintenance and safety of school buildings is the responsibility of the Council acting as the Local Education Authority or the Educational Trust in the case of Academy schools. The Governors and senior management team of each school should also take a close interest in the state of the fabric and the safety of pupils, and are best placed day by day to see faults, cracks and problems with the building structure. They report to the LEA or Trust and should be accountable to them.
It was apparently well known and much discussed over recent years that any building built more than 30 years ago with RAAC concrete contains beams and sections in this material that may have gone beyond the end of its useful life. For some years those in charge of buildings or responsible for maintenance should have been on watch to see if there were any signs of loss of strength, cracking or other signs of degeneration in RAAC concrete components. It was clear to all concerned that if there were there might be a temporary fix of providing extra support to beams or sections that could weaken or snap , preparatory to replacement.
It appears that the government was also monitoring this problem as it may well have direct responsibility for other public sector structures. It decided it needed to intervene with schools, sending them a questionnaire to see how many RAAC buildings at possible risk there were. It then circulated more guidance about the issues this concrete poses and put in Inspectors to review those buildings that did have RAAC. Now the government is being attacked for telling the schools to take tougher action with some of these given recent evidence that there can be RAAC failures in beams or sections that did not show signs of decay. The government has also promised central taxpayer money to fix the issues.
Surely we need to ask how come more of the expensive local bureaucracies that control our LEA schools did not take stronger action earlier, and why they had not reviewed and surveyed on their own initiative? We have many examples of power delegated to local government or to quangos in the UK, yet whenever anything goes wrong blame is usually transferred by the Opposition and media back to the government. If the government is to be to blame for everything maybe we should save the money on the delegated authorities that are not doing the job.
We need to ask what role did LEAs have in using RAAC concrete in the original buildings? Did they not keep a record of how the building was built? What actions had they taken in recent years when it came to light this concrete can deteriorate and has a limited useful and safe life in various cases? You would have thought LEAs and Governing bodies of schools would know the details of how the schools were built and the risks in the form of construction undertaken. They could have taken action to avert problems before the beginning of term.The idea of delegation is based on the simple fact that the school and LEA managers know these buildings and visit them daily or regularly. Ministers have visited very few of them.
September 2, 2023
Indeed but LEAs are mainly interested in mugging motorists with parking and cameras, pushing up council taxes and pay/pensions for staff, blocking the roads with constrictions and anti-car traffic light phasing (to aid motorist mugging), charging for things like licences, planning, building control… Things that actually cost them money like delivering any services to the public of real value go on the back burner when and wherever possible.
The real problem is that these materials can and do fail catastrophically without any (or very much) advance warning.
September 2, 2023
LL, you missed out all the LEAs do to celebrate PRIDE and promote minority interests. Vital work…
As to the issue on RAAC, based on Sir John’s words the Education Minister should be making very clear that this is and has been an LEA owned issue. Why does the media always spin these things to blame central Government? Why does the Tory government not push back harder on responsibilities?
September 2, 2023
+++
Yes of course.
You are absolutely and logically correct. ( Thank you for popping my usual uncomfortable conspiracy bubble)
And when authorities are concentrating on nonsense the day job is neglected.
Our council is concentrating on replicating a well known carnival complete with all the knife crime and disorder. What about the potholes?
September 2, 2023
Oh stop it. Tories have been in power for 14 years! What about the much heralded huge changes to planning legislation change in 2010 under Boles, why was public sector buildings not taken in the round? PFI building costs still costs us the taxpayer a fortune today, what has the Tory party done? SFA! Once more JR selective in passing the blame rather than asking searching questions of his own party and govt.âs failures over 14 years.
What happened to free independent schools? What about Cameronâs gimmick about being British nonsense. His gimmick should have linked to schools and wider education. How about Tories going to force immigrants to speak our language- after all it could save NHS about ÂŁ80 million in translation services! How about giving Free tuition to EU students while giving English students a life time of debt govt. answer it only costs about another ÂŁ80 million a year! Educating our competitors for free !
Oh, they increased the age to leave school! Who introduced the Sex and Relation Act to force Marxist ideology on children of tender years to think a man could be a woman or a cat! Left wing views brainwashing children from 4-21 years brought to you, Yes, by one Tory party! Who has encouraged S.172 statements into businesses at huge cost for cultural Marxism? Tories. Could they have put their energy into something more useful over 14 years?
The progressive Marxism and duff degrees allowed by the Tory party implementing Blaireâs policies! Make young people think they are too intelligent for trade jobs because they hold a duff degree to allow mass immigration to fill the roles behind them!
September 2, 2023
Hope
As always much common sense from you!
The problems are always swept under the carpet
And of course ++++++ hundreds
If the common sense replies where to be enacted then there wouldnât be a problem
September 2, 2023
â If the government is to be to blame for everything maybe we should save the money on the delegated authorities that are not doing the job.â
Blame seems to be the big story here. Architects and builders are not mentioned just different types of politicians.
Regardless, we do have too many quangos in this country. Local politics has often been suspect too.
September 2, 2023
yep some of the big oursourcing organisations which work for the public sector will be really responsible. a number of them will have gone bust since the building. but a lot of the architects and civil engineers, and contractors, will still be working and have public liability insurance. they should be dragged away from all the road thinning, cycle lane building, camera installations, etc that they are currently engaged in, to tackle these mistakes, and forced to own up.
September 2, 2023
Which party decided to build urban ghettos calling them Urban villages without putting infrastructure in place including schools! Yes, Tory party. When you cannot get a school place, when you cannot get a doctor appointment, when you are last on the social housing waiting list, remember Tories put mass immigration before its own people. Fact.
If in doubt, homelessness has not gone away for British people while ILLEGAL criminals given four star hotels at our expense gloating on social media!!
September 2, 2023
Local education authorities have, of course, nothing to do with mugging motorists, council taxes etc.yet another excuse to weave one of your obsessions into a thread.
September 2, 2023
Local councils do and they largely fund, influence and part control LEAs so what is the difference? It is all “government” after all.
September 2, 2023
LL,
Tory govt changed local authority funding under its heralded Planning legislation changes to force councils to approve planning. Since 2010 there is a presumption to grant permission. Why did the Tories not consider public sector buildings when it critiqued Labour for PFI funding of these types of buildings? JR, please explain to us.
September 2, 2023
LEAs are given a grant by the Dept of Education. That grant is generates using a formula which uses, the number of pupils, free school meals, English as a second language, deprivation statistics (often in step with English as a second language), special educational needs and attainment.
Academies take their allocation off the top. The LEA then needs to allocate per pupil amounts to their schools while keeping back some for upkeep like this problem.
Teachers’ pensions are so expensive that LEAs have not been able to build funds to tackle this problem and provide sufficient money for schools.
This is another problem exacerbated by public sector pension levels.
September 2, 2023
0.5gw from windmills. Another indication that nothing is working in the country.
You can fix the buildings when the kids are sent home with no light or heat.
September 2, 2023
And are we certain that this airbrick school carnage narrative is true?
After allâŠit dovetails SO WELL with the Agenda.
All kids to âlearnâ online.
And damage discovered SO late in the day that alternative arrangements were impossible??
Why not move the classes to the nearest 4**** star hotel?
The present grateful incumbents will move on happily.
There must be sound classrooms left standing for occupation surely?
And playing fields for tents.
Then our dedicated ( we hate furlough) teachers can teach in luxury!
September 2, 2023
I+W :
Yes, downloading the data from Gridwatch I see that for August the 28 GW of installed wind power provided an average of just 5 GW. The total energy supplied was 3.8 TWhrs or 18% of the installed capacity.
We are ruled by an idiocracy and just as we are now finding that buildings were built with an inferior concrete with a short and unknown lifespan so they have now decided we should get our energy from expensive, meagre, unreliable, short lifespan, intermittent, materials and land/sea resource profligate, insecure, weather dependent wind and solar renewables.
The problem is that insufficient numbers working on the public payroll get sacked for laziness, negligence, incompetence, malfeasance, corruption, misbehaviour, insubordination or treachery.
In fact, at the very top, incompetence is rewarded with golden goodbyes and another similar job with a golden hello.
September 2, 2023
Councils cannot do the basics like deal with dog poo and “travellers”.
Their planning depts implement the silliest fashions, their licensing depts turn blind eyes to large corporations, their admin costs are way too high.
Head teachers should be given far more power and responsibility, and school allocation should be a deal directly between parents and head teachers get the education authorities out of the decision.
Anyway I see that the government is just about to agree even more visas to India as part of the laughably named trade deal… Making the import of cheap workers from India official government policy even more. Not sure who Conservatives expect to vote for them, but I don’t know anyone given this kick in the teeth.
September 2, 2023
I’m guessing they’re pitching for the Indian-heritage vote.
They make it quite obvious that they don’t give a 4X for the native British peoples.
September 2, 2023
I think they (the whole political class, and senior layers of the public sector) dont like independent individuals, hence swamping the country with cheap (foreign Ed) nationals working in IT sector, and IR35 to discourage any flexible working. They only want big corporates who can grease their palms. Together with some contempt for the traditional white working class thrown in.
Together with no “joined up” vision of how the UK can actually pay its way in the world, hence lots of social engineering to discourage manufacturing here, encourage importing from China and India, no concept of how important our leading intellectual property is, over emphasis on financial services, and massive state overheads on everything (which deliver poor quality results).
September 2, 2023
If we had more head teachers like Katharine Birbalsingh who actually went out and sourced their own school buildings, and so much more, and had far less of the poor quality education authorities dictating everything, then there would be far fewer problems with school buildings and so much more.
September 2, 2023
I wonder how she sets a budget for building maintenance and whether she does her maintenance annually or stores up unspent maintenance budget or spends it on other things.
September 2, 2023
Councils have to funnel every pound they receive into the bottomless pit of elderly care, to pay for those who haven’t put anything by for their old age. People who voted for borrow and waste governments, which in their turn spent all the taxes they received in the year they were collected and still didn’t have enough money.
September 2, 2023
Ccouncils also fancy they can have their own foreign policies. A bit like that jumped up councillor, N Sturgeon.
September 2, 2023
âI fear for the future of Britain, a country in danger of just giving up
Schools are crumbling, the NHS is failing and taxes are excessive, but too many people no longer expect anything betterâ
David Frost in the Telegraph today.
Highest taxes for 70+ years. As usual in the UK too many lawyers, PPE, media type graduates and far to few decent and properly funded engineers, physicists, construction workers building decent long lasting buildings that fail safe if they do fail. Governments and LEAs want things on the cheap so they can spent the rest on higher wages, propaganda, short term political objective, even better state pensions, more motoring mugging cameras and similar.
With the dire prospect of a very large Labour majority in just over 12 months.
September 2, 2023
LL – did you read Sarah Vine in the Mail, a few days ago?
September 2, 2023
Do you mean âSARAH VINE: Basket case Britain is starting to feel like a Third World countryâ it certainly is in certain parts of the country.
Taxes go higher and higher and higher still public services appalling in general and they get worse and worse by the day. No street bins, no decent public loos, potholed roads, deliberately blocked and constricted roads everwhere, hospital strikes, rail strikes, ambulance delays⊠(Shapps largely to blame for the road blocking war on motorists!
September 2, 2023
This issue is a metaphor for the UK:
everything is crumbling; no-one in the public sector is properly carrying out the job we pay them exorbitant sums to do; the political class prefers to fantasise about ludicrous policies like Net Zero rather than ensuring that our infrastructure is adequate and energy supply is secure; the Government prioritises the “demands” of criminal migrants over the British people; we’re taxed to the hilt, which is killing the economy, yet ÂŁbillions are thrown away on useless vanity projects like HS2.
David Frost is right in his article in today’s DT, although the headline is wrong. The country isn’t in danger of giving up …… it’s in despair at the shambles the Not-a-Conservative-Party has presided over and that fact that the so-called “alternative,” Labour, will be even worse.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/01/i-fear-for-the-future-of-britain-a-country-danger-giving-up/
September 2, 2023
Exactly.
September 2, 2023
correct
but its worse than that
September 2, 2023
Wind: 2.2GW
Solar: 0.9GW
Gas: 11.3GW
And we’re paying to import 5GW ….. when we have 100 years+ supply of gas, oil and coal under our feet and in the North Sea.
We have National Grid for Power Rationing telling us that electricity will have to be rationed again this winter ….. whilst the Not-a-Conservative-Government tells us to buy EVs and heat pumps when there isn’t sufficient energy to power the existing demand.
Absolute madness.
September 2, 2023
Correct absolute insanity.
September 2, 2023
Its beyond madness, its …….up
September 2, 2023
Plug your car in cause outages and deny other people heat and light?
September 2, 2023
Aerated cement was discovered by a building worker happening carelessly to leave a compressed air hose running after which its end fell into a wet mixture. The dried hard result found was assessed as being much lighter and but strong enough to use for load bearing. If those who introduced it tested it more rigorously first their compounded carelessness would not have resulted in what has now occurred.
September 2, 2023
Well perhaps but rather unlikely as we have been airating aÄș sorts of liquids that set to make them larger and ligher for very many years.
September 2, 2023
Yeah, but we donât build buildings out of liquid with bubbles in that sets.
September 2, 2023
thank god for aero bars !!
September 2, 2023
We currently live under an anti-Governmeng who are actively making our lives worse by following the WEF globalist ideology.
The WEF ideology is a technocratic globalist vision that has replaced the capitalist-communist spectrum.
In the WEF ideology democratic decisions has been replaced by computer modelling. So we have locks downs, NetZero, Quantitive Easing and Mass Migration all none of which have any regard for the individuals psychology, culture or life. Faceless beauracrats in the civil service pull the strings and use lawfare to suppress the population whilst rotating into highly paid corporates who have profited from the WEF ideology. The population falls into debt, live in crumbling schools, use failing public health services whilst the WEF leadership live in an elite bubble of private jets, private schools and private health insurance.
This is what the LibLabCon parties have become. Anti-political, anti-democratic and anti-human.
September 2, 2023
Seems so Sunak will not give a referendum on net zero he claims it is overwhelmingly supported. In which case why not give a referendum.
in reality once the huge costs and inconveniemce are clear it would never be supported.
September 2, 2023
Possibly. But probably not. A referendum now would produce a massive âyesâ for the Net Zero proposition.
Explaining the costs would make some people change their minds – but not many. The indoctrination has been too effective for people to listen to reason.
Look at the fear mongering done by Remainers. Instant recession! Inflation! Hell freezing over. 52% took no notice.
September 2, 2023
Also trashing the Constitution. That is a consistent across the western world. That means an unfettered political class and the end of the Rule of Law. That means every man for himself.
I remember the Councils giving themselves exemptions from Building Regulations. They built a load of buildings, including their own ânewâ headquarters and many many schools under that exemption. I know that Monmouthshire County Council HQ was condemned about 20 years ago.
I wonder whether these schools were all built under the Building Regulations exemption for public buildings? In which case those who nodded through the exemption are to blame and should be sued for damages.
This of course is a classic application of the arbitrary application of the law – a thumbprint of the Bandeira political system that always ends in a pile of rubble.
September 2, 2023
When I worked on large commercial construction projects, the local councilâs building control department had no input. The client engaged an architect. The architect engaged consulting Structural Engineers. The architect would employ a Clerk of Works to monitor the work and the Structural Engineers would have a Resident Engineer who, as the name implies, would be resident on site. The Resident Engineer inspected, and signed off, all structural work before concrete was poured.
On any serious construction work you donât want some silly Wally of a âBuilding Inspectorâ from the local council coming on site and talking nonsense.
September 2, 2023
Did you work on Council building? Their own headquarters, schools etc?
I actually saw the chunks of concrete being pushed off the rusting metal on the Monmouthshire HQ. You know Lord Armstrong devised galvanisation and galvanised the âcrittalâ windows he installed into Bamburgh Castle. So the rusting and bursting of stone was well known. Armstrongâs first galvanised windows are beginning to fail now – they lasted nearly 130 years.
September 2, 2023
The biggest danger in any school today is what they are being indoctrinated with. No building can rectify that
September 2, 2023
Now, ain’t that the truth! Well said…
September 2, 2023
Sadly, that’s true. I’m glad my sons are adults and out of the State Indoctrination System.
September 2, 2023
correct.
September 2, 2023
Excellent point
September 2, 2023
At least the teachers will be happy. They adore nothing better than not teaching in schools. They’ll fight to the last man for their pay, pensions and early retirements but will they fight to protect children from left wing extremists and progressive poison? Erm, no. Though to be fair Tory Ministers don’t give a shit either so down the crapper WE all descend
September 2, 2023
Correct, and in this case unlike Covid there is lots of scope for moving lessons to the local gyms, libraries, council buildings, and so on. Its only their physical building that is the problem, there is no issue with getting the children together in another building and teaching them there. There should be a lot more moving into other public buildings, as an alternate emergency site, rather than just shutting the school down entirely and pretending to do online learning.
September 2, 2023
‘Elf n Safety will prevent that. Any building they proposed to use would need a myriad of safety checks carried out first.
September 2, 2023
I agree Iain, we are told so many companies are working from home and offices owned by the State are redundant, every single one needs listing, a building inspector sent in and temporary classrooms sited there. State workers seem to like âworkingâ from home and it is difficult to persuade them to return, lets not waste buildings on administrators when they could be used by our children it is important they socialise and mix.
September 2, 2023
When teachers see an opportunity for a months extra holiday, nothing can stop them âŠthey off âŠit will take them a month to draw up a risk assessment and any other H&S, woke, diversity excuse
September 2, 2023
Barges for immigrants not fit for purpose
Schools for pupils not fit for purpose
Ajax army vehicle for soldiers not fit for purpose
HS2 for passengers not fit for purpose
Parliament for politicians not fit for purpose
Thereâs a pattern developing âŠ
September 2, 2023
Political parties not fit for purpose.
September 2, 2023
Exactly, this issue was reported on years ago & the procedures to assess decay issued. This current situation does highlight the failings of devolution. Flowing responsibility & accountability down to many ever changing managements does not work. As it is open to negligence & incompetence. Let alone corruption where over inflated costs are quoted for remedial work. Far better to have control & management driven by the relevant ministries. Such as education, defence, health etc. To issue set processes, schedules of work & funding. To county council’s, Governing bodies & trusts etc…
Basically devolved responsibly & accountability is open to ” no one told me” or “not on my job description” !
September 2, 2023
education authorities are renowned for having short term, highly transient, often seasonal workforces. they also tend to shut up shop entirely during school summer holidays. that’s part of the reason the whole school allocation and appeals process is such a mess.
September 2, 2023
If you try to centralise everything, it does not work either. How can a civil servant be responsible for the safety of every school building in the country? They would struggle to list everything they would be liable for and organise the correct safety checks.
Large firms are good at this. If the Head of Sales fails to meet their targets or the finance director issues the accounts late, they risk getting fired.
The problem is in the public sector; this accountability does not exist. Why isn’t the government holding the councils running the LEA and Academy Heads to account? Rather than try to be helpful, they should be frogmarching the Tory-run councils, not fixing the problem on their patch to Westminster for a dressing down. Opposition parties should be doing the same for their own.
September 2, 2023
Afraid today it’s all about money, we do not have enough of it is always the claim, assuming that more of it would be the answer, so let us blame the Government used to be the last resort, only now it appears to be the first resort, and the excuse used by everyone for any failure of any kind.
Let us face facts John, Local Authorities are now just a legal money laundering system which collects and distributes huge sums of money, at vast expense, from through and to a myriad of organisations and people, who seem to have little responsibility for anything.
Gone are the days when the roads, pavements, ditches, drains, trees, parks, schools and Council houses had a sensible and planned maintenance programme, using directly employed labour which had enough slack and flexibility built in, so that snow clearance, road gritting and other emergency work could be completed as required.
The mindset is now of something completely different, Government has lost control completely by trying to take control of every aspect of our lives, which is an impossible task and was never requested or required by the population.
The result, we now have an excessively expensive Governmental system, which employees far too many inefficient people at vast expense, who accept no real responsibility for anything, and who are too willing to hide away and pass the buck to anyone else.
So we are where we are !!!!!
We need a massive reset, but that will not happen because turkey’s do not vote for Christmas, and Politicians do not vote for less control, less taxation, and regulation
September 2, 2023
RAAC isn’t the only legacy problem for 60s and 70s built buildings. For all the other problems there isn’t the money to close them down as a precaution and rectify or demolish and rebuild. No one can do anything unless a problem arises which needs immediate action.
Seems to me the government has called it right in taking the precautionary action they have. The majority of schools that have been closed are likely still safe, but they can’t be sure.
September 2, 2023
If they are internal supporting walls why canât steel supports be put up and then the old supports knocked down? Or are the outside walls and ceilings this inferior blown concrete?
It just suggests to me that our building standards departments arenât fit for purpose, who are they, how much have we been paying them for the last fifty years, from cladding to school concrete one wonders does anyone take responsibility for anything.
This concrete is not this governments fault! Jeremy Hunt taking the OBRs guesstimates as facts for two years now thatâs negligent, canât his department do their own sums with the actual figures, we know our business figures week by week, get rid of the cost of the OBR and use that money to invest in our school buildings because our local councils arenât up to it, then take school infrastructure away from the Councils all together. We need to cut our Councils down to size theyâre failing on so many fronts and just use excuses all the time. We are paying more and more for services that are rubbish, grass cutting, waste collections, local roads, now school buildings, the only things that seem to have improved are taxiâs to get kids to schools (that needs fixing) and their own pay and pensions.
September 2, 2023
Yes planning departments and building control are completely useless, often drinking in the pubs at the weekend with exactly the same builders they are supposedly monitoring and regulating. The whole system stinks. There should be a public record available online showing which named building inspector signed which building off, for all buildings, and proper professional standards of impartiality, and a proper complaints process about them.
September 2, 2023
Sir John your Diary to today seems more to say it is not the Conservative Government’s fault that the schools had to be shut down at short notice. In fact to say it was no Governments fault over the past 30 years, it was some other governing body lower down the food chain of responsibility.
You can’t expect the Head Teacher to be a structural Engineer. It was known from the start the limitations of this material. But it was cheap so OK to use in public buildings. It did have a life span of 30 years. 6 Government life spans. This Government has has won the pass the parcel of responsibility game.
I am sure there have been many Engineers over the years that have expressed concern over the use of this material but have been over ruled by “the non-engineering management”. It’s cheap but I won’t be there when it falls down.
Did the Government issue an inspection order 5 years ago? Did anyone? Even an inspection will cost money. Who will pay for it ? The usual issue.
The Government can find ÂŁ billions to fuel the War with Russia for very dubious reasons, Find luxury accommodation for those entering the country illegally, but happy to run the risk of concrete beams falling on the heads of our children due to cheap school building construction over the years especially if someone else can take the blame.
September 2, 2023
âIt did have a lifespan of 30 yearsâ well who ultimately took a decision to build so many temporary buildings that would need replacing John? Is this the same for libraries, other public buildings? Weâve had our civic hall removed as unsafe just such a big waste but Iâm sure 50 years ago they werenât saying theyâd only last 30 years.
My school was predominantly mobile classrooms about 20 double units and one building to house science blocks, a gym, canteen, and cookery classes. I canât believe that someone thought replacing these mobile, temporary classrooms with a building with a known lifespan of 30 years was discussed. I donât know how people are getting away with saying that.
Councils have planning department, we had a small garage extension and the building inspectors halted the project twice because of minor infractions, tiny stuff, the builder said our single story 3ft garage extension footings would support a 3 storey house! Yet they allowed schools that would house 100s of our children to be built with a product known to only last 30 years I donât believe that.
September 2, 2023
Interesting Sir John, the usual blame shifting of bureaucracy. Our sonsâ school had an indoor heated, swimming pool. Used not only by the school, the PTA and local primary schools. It needed repair as most facilities do but it was too expensive to be taken out of one years school budget. Unfortunately the way Govt. Funds school budgets the school was not allowed to keep money in reserve from the budget each year to fund this foreseeable maintenance work. The pool had to close. A loss to both school and community. So Govt. isnât responsible for this type of debacle? Sounds like the way they fund Civil Servants gold plated pensions from current income? Why not use sensible business practice and allow for a sinking fund to cover planned future maintenance? Too much for the policymakers in education?
September 2, 2023
It seems that the move is more towards outdoor pools. Totally open to all comers. Years ago some seaside places had them. Basically they just âfenced offâ a bit of the sea. They did similar in 2021 with the canal in Brussels. The pool was closed for a lot of this summer due to poor water quality (lol).
I daresay that our nice clean, safe indoor swimming pools which seem to be disappearing rapidly ( here at least) are regarded as a sign of âinequalityâ or some such madness.
Can you even imagine the danger and mayhem nowadays of a 24 hour open to all open air swimming pool?
Oh plusâŠthey combat âglobal boilingâapparently. Wonât they boil too when the earth boils with all us frogs swimming around in the bubbling water?
September 2, 2023
Outdoor pools were extremely cold even in Summer. Once I tried an indoor pool it was a revelation. Sadly lots of them are no longer in use or were poorly built in the first place. Swiss Cottage had marvellous indoor pools and a superb library.
September 2, 2023
+++
Yes. I always thought that the warm indoor pools were much prized by towns and cities.
However apparently The Agenda must come first!
Itâs cold, unsanitary puddles for us.
September 2, 2023
Reinforced Autoclaved Aerated Concrete (RAAC) is a lightweight form of concrete. The way that RAAC is manufactured makes it weaker than normal concrete. There is no coarse aggregate – for example gravel and crushed stones – in RAAC (this is what gives concrete it’s strength) Instead fine aggregate, such as sand and stone particles, is combined with chemicals to create gas bubbles and then heated to cure the material, which makes it relatively weak.
The QUANGO “Standing Committee on Structural Safety” has confirmed RAAC was used in building construction from the 1950s until the mid-1990s. This means it could be found in any school or college building, prison, hospital etc that was either built or modified during this time.
RAAC will have to be removed, as with building materials containing asbestos. We can leave it to the media to identify the companies who made it, the contractors who installed it, the architects who specified it and the government (or council) department that authorised it’s use in our primary schools etc
Doubtless, the firms concerned will have gone bust and will avoid financial consequences.
September 2, 2023
Sakara
Indeed, so why are you not so cautious and have the same concerns about Net Zero, where government desire and policy is running ahead of proper research and development of materials and products that are being promoted as the panacea, and the golden solution to our problems without them having been tested in the field, at least on a limited scale, and a sensible timeline to be proven as reliable, before they are released on mass to the unsuspecting public.
Condensing Boilers were all the rage 25 years ago, but the first to install them soon found out they were far from the perfect answer, and a vast number proved unreliable with further expensive replacements needed, obviously they are better now, but still vastly more complicated than the simple systems they set out to replace.
Sure we will get there in the end, as design and development moves forwards, but drive it too fast, and you end up with the RAAC problem you so describe. Remember the cladding at Grenfell Tower another rapid failure with unproven products.
I only hope the Nuclear power plants we are building now will prove reliable and efficient, but it should be a concern, given recent results elsewhere.
September 3, 2023
It is notable that those MP’s with the biggest buy-to-let portfolios winge on the loudest about net zero
September 2, 2023
Was it approved by the BRE?
September 3, 2023
BRE was privatised in 1997 following which it was funded with income from commissioned research, commercial programmes and currently by a number of digital tools for use in the construction sector. As far as I can establish RAAC was never approved by the BRE for use in public buildings
However, alarm bells about RAAC were first rung in the 1990s by the BRE, which advised the government to inspect buildings using the material
September 2, 2023
We first became aware of this in the seventies. Our Labour council had thrown up two hideous blocks of council flats which were completely out of scale and character with the neighbourhood, in order to increase the Labour vote in the ward. Years later they had to be evacuated and rebuilt because of what was then known as Poulson concrete. The whole misadventure was at the ratepayers’ expense.
It is indeed galling to hear so many insist the present government, albeit a usurping one, is responsible, just because the Education Minister is a conscientious man. How come it always seems to be Labour councils putting up substandard buildings and not monitoring them? And how come the Blair/Brown regime did not in all its years of maladministration manage to produce one conscientious Education Minister?
September 2, 2023
@ rose “We first became aware of this in the seventies” – that is my recollection too, being told in the context of school buildings with the prediction major rectifications would be needed by the 2000’s.
September 2, 2023
I concur rose, our civic hall had to be taken down, our shopping centre fell down, schools taken down, all ordered by a Labour Unitary authority, the council houses all had to be reroofed and fixed up before they sold them at a loss to a HA. It all stinks.
September 2, 2023
Oh, but they did. Estelle Morris, who resigned from the post of Education Minister under Blair because she recognised she wasn’t up to it.
It’s a shame half the current Cabinet, particularly the Walking Disaster now known as Sec of State for Defence, don’t recognise their own inadequacy and follow Estelle’s example.
September 2, 2023
Estelle Morris was the Secretary of State, as is Gillian Keegan. I was talking about Nick Gibb, the Minister of State.
September 2, 2023
Letâs be fair, here. Teachers, governors, council officials etc. cannot be expected to know what grade of concrete was used in the construction of a building many decades ago. Such concrete will almost certainly not be visible being either plastered or above a suspended ceiling.
I worked in the construction industry for the first 20 years of my âcareerâ. I worked in site engineering and site management. In total I worked on buildings with many, many thousands of cubic yards of concrete poured. Sometimes the concrete, as specified by the consulting structural engineers, was âaerated concreteâ. This meant the concrete had some âaerating agentâ added to the concrete by the âready mixed concreteâ supplier. This, invariably happened off site at the concrete suppliersâ batching plant. The idea, apparently, was that it made the concrete more workable – i.e. that it would fill the forms (formwork) more effectively meaning there would be no voids around the reinforcement etc. There is no visible difference between âaerated concreteâ and ordinary concrete. If there is now a problem with aerated concrete there is no point trying to put the responsibility for managing the situation with teachers or councils. Specialist firms of surveyors or structural engineers will need to be appointed to carry out inspections and monitoring.
Iâm fairly sure some of the high rise stuff I worked in in London were constructed using aerated concrete for the whole structure.
September 2, 2023
Ignore that lot – aerated concrete is not this RAAC stuff. Never saw it in my day – between 1970 and 1990.
Interesting that it shows no sign of deterioration. Normal reinforced concrete works on the basis that concrete is strong in compression and steel (the steel reinforcement) is strong in tension. In simple terms – a concrete slab spanning between columns is, for example, 300mm deep. The steel reinforcement is placed near the bottom of the slab. As the slab tries to bend (under its own weight + imposed loads), the top half of the slab goes into compression and the bottom half goes into tension. The steel is placed at the bottom as it is much stronger in tension than concrete. Bit worrying if the RAAC concrete is degrading and the steel is being asked to do all the work. Normally the concrete and steel are a double act. The concrete resists the compression and the steel resists the tension. If the concrete is failing, the steel will finally give up the cost and pull apart – causing catastrophic failure.
I imagine it will be a right laugh trying to survey these hidden components to see whether the concrete element is deteriorating.
September 2, 2023
Very interesting Mike, perhaps theyâre getting their information from all these 1960s shopping centres falling down and they realise that the same builders and materials were used in schools during that period.
Will the whole building need pulling down or will they be able to put in new supports? Are the ceilings made out of this stuff?
September 2, 2023
My understanding is that this RASC stuff was made into panels – to be used in walls – and as planks – to be used as floors spanning from beams (that sit on columns). I would imagine the frame of the buildings would have been made from either reinforced (normal) concrete or structural steel. If this is the case, the main structure would be safe but the floors would need to be replaced. That said, this RAAC stuff is a lightweight material. The structure would have been designed on that basis – so, it will be interesting to see what they can replace it with. There is a system of lightweight, corrugated steel that is topped with a lightweight concrete screed – perhaps this sort of thing will be suitable. The disruption will be immense.
September 2, 2023
Mike
The other possible problem is that the supporting beams/structure of many of the buildings in question may not be strong enough to take the additional weight of the typical more dense concrete, as they were designed to take the lighter loading of RAAC
Given the design life of most buildings is about 60 years then almost pointless to try and modify and correct, the simple and probably more rapid solution is to demolish and build new, then you an incorporate the more up to date ancillary bits and pieces. Heat light power floor ducting etc etc.
September 3, 2023
Alan, how long have the Oxford colleges been around or Glasgow University, we have a nursery nearby that was built in the 16th century. It is not beyond man to create square buildings that can last the test of time instead of just half a century. Are New York sky scrapers or flats in London or Canary Wharf built to last just 60 years? I just find it hard to believe. They sell these properties with leases for 999 years so surely that is miss-selling.
I donât understand why single story buildings in hospitals are just replaced with single story buildings, they would take up half the floor space with two and three floors and allow for parking and shorter corridors. The government of the day is very shortsighted. Putting on flat roofs when everyone knows they need replacing quickly instead of a low V roof with rain water run off.
September 2, 2023
Indeed but the structural safety inspectors will (as usual) take the easy option and say they cannot say they are safe and so and must be replaced. That way they protect their backsides and cannot easily be sued and you do not have to pay for all the work anyway so what do they care.
September 2, 2023
âTeamâ! âTeamâ!! Urrrgh!! đ€ź
âIâll get one of THE TEAM onto itâ Yes. When? Sometime, never!
Schools used to have caretakers who lived on the premises and knew every creak and squeak of the building.
Until the govt. frenzy to put as many people as possible onto the dole.
Couldnât this govt. learn a few lessons from 18th and 19th century builders instead of less savoury political lessons from unmentionable elsewheres?
September 2, 2023
Everhopeful all the schools I know have facilities managers (caretakers) still?
September 2, 2023
Not here they havenât.
September 2, 2023
Interesting example of how local bureaucracies are not always fit for purpose.
Those of us that dislike ever more central government also dislike the unaccountable authority of groups and quangos that fail to do their day job but also avoid responsibility for the full scope of what they should be doing.
Ultimately this comes down to how groups and quangos are brought into being, their mission statement, as well as a means to dispense with them when they fail. Being in the EU made parliament lazy, for it has to legislate as well as control, which it seems to have forgotten about, in many areas.
None of this should excuse effective functioning by groups and quangos – It is not hard to establish break points to demonstrate failure, which is where government should take command.
September 2, 2023
The MSM and others just loved to sensationalise this. But just how many schools have ‘fallen down’ because of RAAC? How many other buildings have fallen down because of the material? Have they criticised the local authorities? They told us about a broken beam in a school in Kent, I’ve heard nothing else from them, other than more political demands and the seeking of glory for themselves. I gather it has been in use for decades.
If someone is responsible for reporting on the state of their building it doesn’t require them to be structural engineers to notice if something might need further checking. If something has a crack in it that shouldn’t they should call someone in. If grass or a tree is beginning to grow in the rainwater gutters they should be reported as requiring cleaning promptly and a written record kept of their notifications and follow up.
My guess is those responsible have been neglectful, always wanting to blame someone else, and are probably politicised too and this is the hysteria we get from other sources. They should be blamed and punished for neglect, they are the ones who should act first to protect the users.
September 2, 2023
Why would anyone build something using materials that only last 30 years ? As I assume some were built when Labour were in power I think Starmer should be blamed too.
September 2, 2023
Well at least the schools are maintaining the policy of government neglect.
Roads are falling apart and no new ones are allowed to be constructed or old ones repaired.
The NHS is falling apart with too many staff members doing too little to to many would be patients.
The hotel industry is bursting at the seams with state funded migrant customers full hotels but no profit.
School buildings falling apart that were built in hast in the modern era while those that stand tall and are a permanent example of past century craftsmanship are being demolished because they are not modern enough???
Not modern enough meaning they are not falling down fast enough I guess?
September 2, 2023
All of these politicians planning laws rules regulations after coming through WW2 and that rebuilding experience and still we could not prevent RAAC in the concrete. We have too much local representation and that’s partly the problem – as always the more representation the more cover for the scoundrels to hide.
September 2, 2023
I am not a civil engineer and my knowledge of concrete is limited. Looking at RAAC concrete from the outside it looks as if it was created as a money saving exercise. There can be no other logical conclusion than someone was either forgetting or ignoring history for the purpose of keeping the price down.
History tells us that the Romans invented structural concrete BC, though I have heard rumour that they stole the idea from the Etruscans. It was called Opus Caementicium and used in the construction of Ancient Rome. According to Wikipedia it was a hydraulic setting cement added to aggregate. In some cases Pozzolanic Ash was added to reduce weight and prevent the spread of cracks.
There are many of these Roman concrete structures still with us today and still intact. Most notable is the Pantheum Dome in Rome, the Worlds largest , oldest, unreinforced concrete structure. Preceeding it was the Temple of Mercury bathhouse in Baiae built in the first century BC. Both have withstood all that geology and the ever changing climate could throw at them for over 2000 years.
A classic example of history being ignored at our peril. I do not know what the timeline of RAAC is in the UK , having heard it could have come on the scene 30 years ago, making it beyond this governments timeframe but possibly in the Blair/Brown era. I doubt if any politician was ever consulted. For me it epitomises the cheepskate solution to much that happens in the UK today. Mourn the departure of Hadrian.
September 2, 2023
It was apparently in use between the 1950s and 1980s, so yes, looks like it was a cheap form of construction post WW2 when so much had to be rebuilt.
September 2, 2023
The Romans obviously understood that an unsupported roof constructed of concrete needs to be totally under compression hence the dome shape which is also magnificent.
September 2, 2023
There is a reason we developed bricks and mortar here in a country 50+ deg. northern latitude. Those brick built lime mortar structures still stand proud and impressive even when they were built back in Elizabethan Tudor times.
The post 1950s concrete and glass structures built in 20th century Elizabethan ‘white heat of technology’ times are not doing so well.
September 2, 2023
Yet the most common surviving structures in this country are oak framed with a dung/straw infill and a thatched roof. Admittedly the thatch will have been maintained. Well, replaced de temps en temps.
September 3, 2023
And churches and many of them can be fixed up for housing now. One church was converted into nine lavish 2 bed apartments keeping the grade II listed exterior of the building during renovations it didnât need completely knocking down.
September 2, 2023
Apologies Sir John, of topic but goes to the problems and threats we are treated to by this Conservative Government
Sometimes most of us despair on the naivety of those that have found their way into this Conservative Government.
According to todayâs Media our new Defence Secretary supports the Chinese state and on balance it appears to support them ahead of the UK.
Apparently according to his âpeopleâ he needs to engage with the Chinese State so that he can communicate with his constituents?
The two known things he refuses to acknowledge, Chinese Companies as with all Chinese people are compelled by Law to spy on behalf of the State. The penalty for not doing so is extreme. All digital Apps collect data whether you interact with them or not(So having an App and not using it, means nothing). An Apps very existence gives the App owners and creators full access to the entire contents of your device, your history all those that you have contact with and so on. For this new Minister to then suggest he will restrict himself to his private phone, that doesnât wash either, this would only work if the contacts, the browsers and history on that device was not similar to his work phone. Thatâs the point of App data collection, it is used by collating things from one avenue to another to pull together a bigger picture, usually this is just to sell, but it is equally applicable to those with nefarious intentions.
Even if he were to use a third party to communicate with his Continuants via this sort of App, as they in turn would be in contact with him digitaly the same damage results.
Lets not forget our all seeing Conservative Government seeks to restrict encryption, so we have a Defence Minister working in league with the Chinese Authorities and against the UK.
September 2, 2023
Tents are even cheaper, and good ones have a longer expected lifespan…
September 2, 2023
There were thousands of tents left abandoned after Reading music festival. Couldn’t they be used on fields near Dover for illegal immigrants?
September 2, 2023
I don’t think the government would have done a better job than the LEAs. Both are sink holes for taxpayers’ money run by bureacrats and presided over by a succession of politicians with short term interests.
Would Outsourcing have been better? I’m not sure there either. Plenty of examples of outstanding failures there.
Probably just a typical British mess-up. All we can hope for is that we don’t now waste millions on a pointless whitewash of an Inquiry.
September 2, 2023
It really does beg the question why local authorities are given delegated powers such as education, only for them to neglect the important matters such as buildings maintenance whilst wasting time and effort on woke agendas; oh, and expecting central government to foot the bill for their negligence. In the meanwhile, waste collection services, as one of the foundations of public health, get watered down.
September 2, 2023
“If the government is to be to blame for everything maybe we should save the money on the delegated authorities that are not doing the job.” – yes, although when government ministers find it hard to deflect blame it is no wonder those who fail resort to laying it upon them.
Also, ministers typically do a poor job of managing quangoes and the like, q.v. your call for an annual meeting where Ministers discuss performance. Would they do any better if directly managing?
September 2, 2023
U.K. schools are falling down, falling down, falling down.
They were built with bricks of air
Blame the councils
Bricks of air have worn away, worn away, worn away.
Should have lasted 30 years (!)
Blame the councils.
Move the kids to good hotels, good hotels, good hotels.
Turf the people in them OUT!
(And ALWAYSâŠ. rightly)
Blame the councils.
September 2, 2023
Sensible, well informed and argued.
Contrast with the anti-lockdown brigade in whom Covid Derangement Syndrome is endemic. Government locking down again they cry hysterically. Lockdowns bad so let the concrete fail. once a few children – not too many – have been injured or killed then and only then need we take it seriously. Leave school alone to make their own judgment
And here Sir John shows clearly the schools and LEAs have failed to use their judgment or have exercised poor judgment.
Never mind, cries the anti-lockdown brigade, that is their freedom, don’t take it away. Except as Sir John says, they have a legal responsibility as well as a moral responsibility for the safety of others, just as those infected with Coronavirus had moral and legal responsibility to others.
September 2, 2023
It’s hard to follow what point you are trying to make, Peter. I can’t see how the two issues have anything in common. LAs simply followed Central government orders on COVID policy and lockdowns. The disastrous consequences of lockdowns for children’s education are not the fault of LAs. But they have legal responsibility for their schools, and can rightly be criticised if they don’t monitor the safety of school buildings.
September 2, 2023
This problem was known about thirty years ago. Central and local governments did nothing, according to reports. A school building with RAAC collapsed in 2018. Still no action by the authorities. So why has it suddenly become so urgent now? I tend to agree with the US president who said in politics nothing happens by accident, and I think that goes especially for the timing.
September 2, 2023
The capability of District and Local Councils is shameful . They receive huge amounts of money from householders but return very little . There is no system of control over the their spends and priorities leaving those of us who pay up in frustration and despair . Each month my contribution to this mess is almost ÂŁ400 . Surely some sort of administration should exist to regulate and control what happens .
September 2, 2023
OT but it seems the ONS are about as good telling us what has already happened as the OBR are at telling us what will happen in the future.
September 2, 2023
Educational trusts and academies spend their funds on high salaries without any consideration for their built infrastructure
Local Education Authorities are no longer responsible as everything is devolved
Local Councils are restricted by ever decreasing budgets as their focus is on cycle lanes and building net-zero projects
School Heads will close their schools on any pretence, they get paid anyway
The maintenance of schools is a hot potato, a potato that no one owns or wants âŠ.Its a mess or your own making, its also a smoke screen to divert the media away from the cabinet reshuffle, ULEZ and illegal immigration
Best have another judge led enquiry âŠthat will keep everyone quiet
September 2, 2023
“13 years of Tory rule = disaster” the country is literally falling apart and there just isn’t any way to argue against it in short enough points – so why bother ?
You face extinction. Even famous Tories are going to lose their seats, never to return. The victors will get to write history as above and the young will be indoctrinated to loathe the name Conservative and make it synonymous with disaster and incompetence.
(The best concrete is going in that black hole they call HS2.)
September 3, 2023
On the contrary George I think these rotten buildings are a good indication of what voting Labour gets you, all a load of film flam, build cheap, square boxes arenât we wonderful, oh theyâre all falling down and need replacing!
September 2, 2023
The Mayor of London is spending hundreds of millions on ULEZ âŠ.how about diverting that money on repairing schools ?
September 2, 2023
Are you seriously thinking of criminalising home owners who do not comply with ‘energy regulations’ ?
Has this ‘Government’ lost the plot?
(Sorry rhetorical question)
Also could I avoid prosecution if my house identified as energy efficient?
Reply I am not
September 2, 2023
Completely off topic, sorry
On the BBC website theyâre still pushing the Climate Change scam with the weâre all going to drown or burn up rubbish
Shouldnât there be a law to prevent them broadcasting untruths, they are after all the national broadcaster
They also provide misleading information about the war in Ukraine as do all the media
September 2, 2023
The reason our government is about to give subsidies to Tata Steel of between ÂŁ500m – ÂŁ1.2bn is due to the enforcement of net-zero âŠ.no other reason, we need to be told the true taxpayer costs of net-zero
September 2, 2023
If it wasnât for net-zero Tata wouldnât have to convert from coal/gas furnace to electric arc furnace at a subsidy cost of ÂŁ500+ million and 3,000 lost jobs
I say, lets keep coal/gas furnace and save 3,000 jobs and ÂŁ500+ million taxpayers money
September 2, 2023
Pre mass internet they were cosy.
To most (99%), It’s like stepping barefoot on a slug.
Do the 99% hate them ?
No. Just a natural revulsion.
Like stepping on a slug.
September 2, 2023
Property: Who do we look to exactly for the provocative o/line headline ( DTel – timed 01/9 8pm ) seen today and is it just another idiotic attempt to try to force us into submission – ‘ Property owners who don’t comply with new energy rules may face prison’
It suggests Ministers want to grant themselves power to create new criminal offences & increase civil penalties as part of efforts to hit net zero targets. It states there is a backlash from Tory MPs.
The Energy Bill I gather is coming up soon in the HOC.
A UKG spokesman is said to have stated that there are no plans to create new criminal offences. Rubbish basically. Apparently.
Head of Net Zero Scrutiny group ( MP ) reportedly says that the bill is festooned with new criminal offences ……
What the h… next !?
September 2, 2023
It is a pity (again) that not one individual(s) will take the blame for this, yet another, fiasco concerning the country.
No councillors will be in the dock, only ‘the council’. And when there is a penalty price to pay ‘the Council’ will have to pay BUT ultimately that really means the Council Tax and Business Rate payers, from whose taxed money, the majority already goes on the salaries and pensions paid to council employees and to contractors.
Until such time those individuals deemed responsible for the fiasco suffer directly, NOTHING will change.
This equally applies to Westminster and Whitehall among politicos and civil servants, who appear exempt from any charge, despite the fact they are completely responsible and are paid accordingly. Why are they excused?
What ever happened to President Truman’s, ” The Buck stops here”, principle?
Alas it is very clear, the numbers of truly honourable people left in key positions has diminished alarmingly since his day! And it is us dumb and silent tax payers who always suffer for it!
September 2, 2023
We used to have in the Navy a dismissive saying, “Not my part of the ship”.
That seems to have apllied here.
September 2, 2023
There are many mentions of LEAs in your article Sir John but not so much discussion about academy trusts. These private organisations have leadership which pays itself highly and was gifted buildings and equipment when becoming an academy.
How many of these profit centres have had to close buildings?
Reply There were no Academies when these buildings were put in, though as you say some Academies may now be responsible for inherited buildings.
September 2, 2023
Regrettably this blog is just fanning a spreading mood of irrational hysteria.
How many people have died in all these years through RAAC concrete collapses? How much would it cost both in money and in human labour time to replace all this non-collapsing collapsible concrete? How many millions upon millions of pounds would that be for each life saved? We need to accept that life is necessarily risky – any of us could die suddenly of a heart attack or stroke or whatever today.
Likewise one can consider the buildings clad in the same way as Grenfell Tower. No deaths since 2017 (and I think that is worldwide, not just in Britain). Yet in Britain billions of pounds to replace similar cladding which ‘remediation’ is not merely causing misery to the occupiers but pretty certainly also many more deaths than the original Grenfell fire from psychosomatic illnesses resulting from the devaluation and unsaleability of people’s flats due to remediation.
Meanwhile many thousands of people will probably die as a result of the forthcoming doctors’ strikes, both directly and even more from delayed treatments. If society and politicians are so very concerned about public safety why aren’t those doctors’ strikes illegal or being made illegal?
September 3, 2023
I can’t help wondering how it came about that the issue reached ‘something must be done pdq’ stage just a few days before schools began the new school year. Who forced the issue *at this juncture*? It feels like another insider attempt to embarrass the government. Is it?
September 3, 2023
Yes mancunius. This đŻ. But it will backfire on Labour.
September 4, 2023
I am still waiting for that bonfire of the quangos, getting impatient now?
September 5, 2023
[…] âThe law lays down that the maintenance and safety of school buildings is the responsibility of the Council acting as the Local Education Authority or the Educational Trust in the case of Academy schools.â (link) […]