My Interventions in the Energy Bill (2)

John Redwood (Wokingham, Conservative):
If this electrical revolution is to take off, many more people will need to buy electric cars and heat pumps. Does the hon. Gentleman have any advice for the Government on how those items can be made more popular and more affordable?

Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Labour):
The Government and I have been in considerable discussion about precisely that point. We need to make sure we change the model of ownership of those devices. We perhaps need to have a longer debate about that on another occasion.


  1. Ian B
    September 8, 2023

    And what is the Government to do with regards making the whole of the UK Housing Stock that hasn’t been built in the last few years capable of benefiting from a heat pump installation.

    The estimate is for in the region of £20,000- £40,000 per home needs to be spent before the cost of the heat pump is factored in. That is just to enable the device to provide basic heat comfort and facilities. In some cases(more than most will admit) it will be cheaper to knock older homes down and rebuild.

    How does the Government rationalise that with the need for more housing.

    1. Lifelogic
      September 8, 2023

      The panning system often demands that you demolish an existing house before you are allowed replace it with a new one on the plot. This when not demolishing it would cost much less and give you two houses for less money than one.

      So “How does the Government rationalise that with the need for more housing?”

    2. MFD
      September 8, 2023

      Ian B,

      These guys are nuts and have no technical knowledge. The small bungalow I own barely has room for a wall-mounted combiner’s boiler in the kitchen there is no way to increase the size of the heating pipes or radiator size to facilitate a heat pump, never mind the outside unit.
      The real way to get change is to gradually work toward an answer. Also, how are all those villages full of listed houses built with timber frames and cob or brick non-cavity walls going to be dealt with , the owners of them are not allowed to even change sash windows!

      We need to get rid of the morons who push the global heating lie and the demonising of the Plant food

    3. Everhopeful
      September 9, 2023

      I have read that the plan is to rate new buildings first. And they must be A rated or improved up to that dubious (who wants to live in a clammy, moth and virus ridden …no fresh air, box?) standard. Then will come the older houses and if you can’t afford the ( ever escalating and changing) requirements then you borrow or enter some ooky govt. scheme to obtain the cash.Or with really old buildings…they are ripped down.Which is exactly what has happened for a long time. Councils buy up lovely old buildings and tear them down to put up eyesore.
      Just to add…the supposed crumbling concrete scare could dovetails very well into this. Will they be tearing down schools and hospitals to build 15 minute/energy compliant monstrosities? I have seen an artists impression of the future of this place…even worse than now…if possible!

  2. PeteB
    September 8, 2023

    Sir John, you should have asked to see the plan to upgrade our 50 year old electrical national grid to handle three times the curent capacity. That is a multi-decade project and will need foreign materials and plant. The UK heavy electrical engineering capacity no longer exists.

    1. Lifelogic
      September 8, 2023

      At least three times. Far more work and costs connecting up a grid to countless wind-turbines in the see.

      1. Original Richard
        September 9, 2023

        LL :

        The plan is not to upgrade the National Grid (except to bring the intermittent and expensive offshore wind farm “energy” onshore) but to reduce demand through impoverishment and severe rationing restrictions on energy use, food and travel etc ( hence policies like change of ownership model) to enable demand to match supply.

  3. Ian B
    September 8, 2023

    How many MP’s without thinking it through voted for this energy bill. Then how many now ride around 100% of the time in electric cars they have paid for out of income? Also how many of these same MP’s have installed ‘heat-pumps’ in their own homes and also paying for them out of their own earned income?

    As this Conservative Government dictates and Parliament agrees there is no discussion, no exceptions just 100% compliance. If 100% of these MP’s have not already done what they order are they not just hypocrites?

    The other big ‘Elephant in the room’ how much World Pollution will this energy bill create? It according to the scare mongering hype it a World Problem and there is nothing the UK can do about it all the while their so-called problem solving is to produce double the amount of the problem elsewhere in the World. The hype is that it is a World Problem, the diktats to date just move and increase it

  4. Danny Hargreaves
    September 8, 2023

    The model of ownership? Does that mean make things affordable for the majority of the population?

    1. Donna
      September 8, 2023

      Don’t be silly. It’s about rationing resources ….. and helping themselves to wealth from the middle classes.

      1. Peter
        September 9, 2023

        ‘Model of ownership’ = weasel words.

        I wonder who thought this one up ? Maybe it is Dr. Whitehead’s own invention.

    2. Everhopeful
      September 8, 2023

      I doubt it.
      I reckon it means rental and/or shared ownership.
      As in “you will own nothing”.
      Next they will pull our houses down for non compliance.

      1. Mickey Taking
        September 8, 2023

        or take away our ICE vehicle if you haven’t got an EV by a given date.

    3. Christine
      September 8, 2023

      No, I think it means you will rent it like people used to rent their TVs.

    4. Mark
      September 9, 2023

      It means you will own nothing and be happy. Subscribe to your Volvo EV. Well, probably one shared with 3-4 other families. The government will make you a generous loan on terms similar to student debt to have a heat pump installed: too bad if your house isn’t suitable, because your mortgage will be foreclosed and title transferred to the government. If you object, you will be imprisoned (at least until they run out of prison space, but a migrant floating barge makes a suitable alternative while the migrant gets to live in your former home).

  5. agricola
    September 8, 2023

    So with EVs and Heat Pumps HMG are considering a different model of ownership.

    With Heat Pumps are HMG considering area, housing estate, or appartment block schemes to provide central heating and domestic hot water from a central single bore system. I think such systems exist in Iceland with its unique geology. Would they work in terms of UK geology if we drilled deep enough.

    With EVs we would need extensive leasing systems that were sufficiently financially attractive to first time users and supply a steady supply to second and third and fourth time users. Any scheme would be best inclusive of maintenance or replacement in cases of engineering failure. Having said this there would still be the shortcomings of EVs which many would choose not to accept. Fueling time, Range and ultimate cost when HMG finds itself falling short of income it enjoys from ICE vehicles. I still think that Hydrogen is a more practical option for HGV and personal transport for obvious reasons.
    It is a debate worth having, but not the stampeding approach we witnessed with the energy bill. A disgraceful affront to democracy, but par for the course from day one for this government.

  6. RichardP
    September 8, 2023

    Ah there we have it…‘The model of ownership’.
    Sounds very much like ‘you will own nothing and you will be happy’, doesn’t it?

  7. DOM
    September 8, 2023

    ‘model of ownership’. A fancy term for Communism. This is the Tory party in the C21st. A party utterly and totally servile to a most poisonous ideology

    We’ll be calling John Comrade Redwood rather soon

  8. Lifelogic
    September 8, 2023

    Oh dear by “change the model of ownership of those devices” I assume he means some duff lease arrangements or HP or tax payer loans. This as they now do with new cars to rip off consumers even more and tie them up in duff contracts. Also and encourage repeat business every few years! More deluded market rigging. Dr Alan Whitehead seems to be another politics graduate of some sort!

    Why would spending £70k on an EV and a heat pump ever be popular with people with current tech.? This as they are far more expensive, cost more to run and finance, depreciate more rapidly, are less efficient, often give tepid rads, slow to warm up and are less attractive in many other ways to a £1,000 gas boiler and a £1000 second hand petrol car. Also we have no spare low CO2 electricity anyway until we crack better nuclear or fusion. Not that CO2 is a problem anyway. Plus electricity is much more expensive than gas anyway.

    Also some may need two or more cars not one and most in cities do not have space to park & charge even one, let alone two or more. Another moronic policy driven by the net zero nutters and I assume perhaps vested interests or party donors. A conspiracy against the public surely what other explanation.

  9. Lifelogic
    September 8, 2023

    Change the model of ownership – so get people to buy the rip off duff tech on the never never is that the plan? More moronic market rigging, people do not want and cannot afford this duff tech too expensive and does not really work.

  10. Original Richard
    September 8, 2023

    Dr Alan Whitehead (Southampton, Labour):
    “We need to make sure we change the model of ownership of those devices.”

    Translation : We will make energy and these devices so expensive and the restrictions on use so difficult “you will own nothing” (to quote a well known phrase).

    “We perhaps need to have a longer debate about that on another occasion.”

    Translation : When the public cannot learn of what we are proposing.

    Governance without politics is tyranny and we’re going down that path with no allowed opposition to CAGW/Net Zero in either the MSM or in Parliament.

    1. Hope
      September 8, 2023

      He failed to truthfully answer the question and clearly does not want any discussion until it is too late! Sound familiar like currently rejoining EU by another model. If he does actually know after giving this answer then he has lied in parliament and must go.

    2. Original Richard
      September 9, 2023

      Dr Alan Whitehead studied politics and philosophy and has a PhD in political science.

      So ideally suited as shadow minister for energy security as we move to an energy system where DSR (Demand Side Response – aka rolling blackouts) and behaviour change ( aka impoverishment and authoritarian restrictions) will become necessary to survive with renewable energy which is expensive, meagre and unreliable (intermittent/weather dependent).

      Dr Alan Whitehead is against the use of nuclear energy so no chance then for any sensible energy policy.

      We are ruled by an idiocracy that will become ever more authoritarian (hence the change of model of ownership) to achieve their unilateral net zero CO2 emissions goal whatever the damage done to the people of the U.K.

      As for all tyrannies, the ends always justifies the means and we have several examples from the last century to show us how the net zero goal will end for us.

  11. Donna
    September 8, 2023

    Let me guess ….. the model of ownership they will promote for EVs will be “you won’t own one because they will be too expensive, but you will be permitted to hire one occasionally.”

    And what a surprise it will be when we find out that the people who own the EV rental companies are all Eco Loony members of the Establishment and/or Government. Won’t that be a coincidence.

    Remember – when they say you will own nothing, it’s because they will own everything.

    1. Hope
      September 8, 2023

      Model of ownership- Personal Contract Plans (PCP) are promoted by garages now rather than buy and own outright a car. I presume he means rental, aka-PCP, like air conditioning units in the US?

      Your party and govt are acting like tyrants/dictators without a mandate. No wonder China loving Hunt at forefront of your Govt.

      1. Diane
        September 9, 2023

        Hope: They appear to recognise only the mandate from elsewhere. Neil Oliver’s 02 Sept programme ( see GBN / YouTube) eloquently & succinctly reminded us of what is going on in plain sight ! Agenda 21 and C40 Cities anyone? ( the latter, 100 global mayors, chaired by Mr Khan. ) They all know what’s best for us. Of course they do.

  12. iain gill
    September 8, 2023

    Well worth reading Dominic Cummings blog, his new post lays out the problems of the current major political parties, the government, the civil service, the public sector etc very well.

    What he doesnt have is a good set of solutions, his ideas are way short of what is needed, and shaped by his own prejudices.

    Really he needs to sit down with someone like me. The same could be said for many in politics.

    1. Peter D Gardner
      September 9, 2023

      Someone like me? Who are you?

      1. Mickey Taking
        September 9, 2023

        Title song by The Who. 1978

        Who are you?
        Who, who, who, who?
        I woke up in a Soho doorway
        A policeman knew my name
        He said, “You can go sleep at home tonight
        If you can get up and walk away”
        I staggered back to the underground
        And the breeze blew back my hair
        I remember throwing punches around
        And preaching from my chair

        Well, who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
        I really want to know (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
        Tell me who are you? (Who are you? Who, who, who, who?)
        Because I really want to know (Who are you?

        1. iain gill
          September 10, 2023


  13. XY
    September 8, 2023

    Yet another non-answer then. And no right to follow up (rubbisg procedures in parliament – far too formalised, which means there is no real debate).

    And… this was just some Labour bloke – who cares what he says? Except, perhaps, that they will be in government soon – unless the British public wake up and start voting Reform UK.

  14. Mark
    September 9, 2023

    Interesting that Dr Whitehead already claims to be dictating policy.

  15. Peter D Gardner
    September 9, 2023

    State ownership perhaps?

  16. Elli
    September 9, 2023

    I think that most of the pool of rich and ultra green enthusiasts about EV’s and heat pumps is now exhausted, many are trying to sell their 2-3 year old EV’s, having realised their critical shortcomings.
    The green cult and their industrial interests are trying to push a bonkers policy, which will fail.

  17. Barbara
    September 9, 2023

    I am sorry to say it, but much of government policy now is indistinguishable from a campaign of harassment against the public.

  18. dixie
    September 9, 2023

    You should press Whitehead for more transparency and clarity – who exactly in government has he been talking so much with (does he mean civil service rather than the “party in charge”?)
    Also, I suspect the notion that change of ownership means rental/PCP may be off track, just as likely they are contemplating car pools/sharing considering most private vehicles spend 90%+ of their time parked up.

  19. Original Richard
    September 9, 2023

    There are two factions. One are the international communists and the other the international WEF corporates.

    The communists are using workery to cause societal divisions and chaos and the WEF corporates use workery to enforce their mafia style ESG compliance.

    Both are using net zero as a means to enforce impoverishment, the rationing of energy use, food and travel as a means of control and ultimately to own everything for themselves – either by the state directly (communism) or by a few large corporates in league with the state (fascism).

    Hence the “change of model of ownership” and the existence of a uniparty Parliament.

    Either way we’re on the path to an ending of enlightenment, freedom of thought, expression and deed and a totally controlled existence akin to slavery.

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