Treasury has provided the following answer to your written parliamentary question (198583):
Question:
To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer, whether he has plans to introduce new taxes on the (a) purchase and (b) running costs of electric vehicles. (198583)
Tabled on: 11 September 2023
Answer:
Gareth Davies:
In his 2022 Autumn Statement, the Chancellor announced that from April 2025 electric cars, vans and motorcycles will begin to pay Vehicle Excise Duty in the same way as petrol and diesel vehicles. Electric cars with a list price of Ā£40,000 or more will also be liable to pay the Expensive Car Supplement.
As with all taxes, VED is kept under review and any changes are considered and announced by the Chancellor.
The answer was submitted on 19 Sep 2023 at 13:42.
Comment The answer fails to address lost petrol and diesel duty which some say will mean some tax per mile on EVs or a tax on electricity through rechargers.
September 22, 2023
Good morning.
Ah, the good old ‘bait and switch’. Get people / suckers like SG to buy, literally, into something with the lure that its going to be cheaper, only to charge them even more further down the line.
September 22, 2023
It is far more expensive than your old car and less practical even with the current tax breaks.
September 22, 2023
He could have said no VED will no longer be required because we will cut state spending for it to no longer apply! He could have announced state spending at 46% of GDP is totally unacceptable and against Tory valuesā¦.
Charles, true to form, gives political views in his speech about climate rot. I cannot wait for his other expert advice on marriage and family as head of the Church of England!
Meanwhile Tory Caroline totalitarian CMS head acts as judge and jury of Brand before any investigation or examination of evidence. She demands every business deprives him of earning a living without any due process under well established principles of the Magna Carta! Is Sunak going to withdraw the whip from her for acting against British legal and Tory values?
Starmer lets the cat out the bag that the Uni Party do not intend to divert from EU rules and laws. This explains why Sunak has not axed 4,000 EU laws, tied GB to EU through his EU Windsor sell out while putting a border down the Irish Sea! This is unilaterally implemented this week without a Stormont! Another totalitarian implementation without any mandate or support from GB or N.Ireland!! So perhaps Caroline mirrors Sunakās values after all.
September 22, 2023
Of course the Uni-Party doesn’t. We’ve been lined up for Associate Membership of the EU when the tiered structure is created…. in company with Turkey, Ukraine, EFTA members and Switzerland.
September 22, 2023
Caroline whatever her name is and the civil servants, who composed her letters, are not fit to hold office. Our situation is now this as described by Christine Anderson in the EU parliament –
“Itās either freedom, democracy, and the rule of law ā or enslavement.
āThere is no such thing in between. There is no such thing as a little freedom, a little democracy, a little rule of law, just as there is no such thing as a little enslavement. So thatās the choice. It comes down to ā itās either the globalitarian misanthropists or the people”
September 22, 2023
+1
September 22, 2023
When you factor in the tax take from petrol/diesel, at Ā£00.70+ pence per litre, you’ve got to think ‘how on earth are thy going to find that revenue when we’re forced into electric’…… Is there any joined up thinking here?
P.S. From Starmer’s comments in Canada, it seems that quite a few PCP members, including a former PM, would feel more at home in the Labour Party now… Time for a Real Conservative & Unionist Party to emerge.
September 22, 2023
Well only 8 (?) Conservative MPs voted against the recent energy bill and not many more against the dire Windsor Accord so rather some way to go for a real small government āConservative & Unionist Partyā.
September 22, 2023
Electric charging points are charging 20% VAT
September 22, 2023
All business is chorded 20% VAT on electricity.
September 22, 2023
2/ I suspect as well as vat on electricity, they’ll take your monthly mileage by digital recording and charge you a mileage charge.
September 22, 2023
Indeed. They are hugely rigging the market to make people scrap old cars and buy expensive new EV ones. This despite the fact that they will still pay virtually no tax on fuel as opposed to 50-60% of the pump price for petrol/diesel. So why are they pushing them – they do not even save CO2 they cause more.
Running an old car can cost as little as 25p a mile all in. A new EV is likely to cost 56p just in depreciation and finance costs then more on insurance, tyres (which wear circa 30% more quickly) and possible a new battery quite soon too. Perhaps as much as Ā£1 a mile all in – and they save not CO2 anyway not that CO2 is a serious problem.
I see that the CEO of Ford UK (Home Economics Ulster University it seems) is complaining about the Sunakās far too tiny row back petrol cars to 2030. Well of course Ford want lots of new laws, subsidies, tax breaksā¦ to force you to buy their very expensive and inferior new EV cars. Why else would you buy them? Still under 3% of cars in the UK are full electric and the more people realise their limitation (other than perhaps as second city cars) the more they will be put off.
September 22, 2023
Second city cars only if you have room to park two cars that is. Very few in London do have.
September 22, 2023
LL,
As Sunak/Uni party acting in lock step with EU, against public mandate to leave EU, you need look at what EU is doing. Sunak only agreed to delay nut zero to be aligned with EU! He stated he will not compete against our neighbours!
September 22, 2023
There has really been no row back on EVs, manufacturers are still required to sell 80% EV cars by 2030.
September 22, 2023
Yet more mad market rigging, this yet another back door tax on top of the highest taxes for 70 years.
September 22, 2023
Plus surely the 80% requirement ( what is the penalty for failure?) will result in fewer cars in production? Manufacturers will either have to pay huge fines or reduce their prices to get sales.
Everything that is happening = No More Cars.
September 22, 2023
If manufacturers are fined for selling fewer than 80% of cars as EV, what happens? Maybe theyāll force the cost petrol and diesel vehicles up and reduce their desirability in other ways to avoid paying the fines. Maybe theyāll make EVās slightly better than worthless if they possibly could. Itās no wonder that Ford is irked.
September 22, 2023
me walking into a car showroom in a year or two.
‘I want to buy that petrol car over there.’
‘Sorry sir, you can have this EV over here, but we are not allowed to sell you the petrol one, Head Office instructions’.
I turn and walk out….
September 22, 2023
Indeed doing the same with energy and housing. Forcing buyers of ICE cars to subsidise EV buyers, users of gas boiler to subsidise electricity, buyers of houses to subsidise social housing for others (who might well be better off than them). Also rigging bank lending, investment markets, oil and gas exploration markets, transport (car users taxes, train and bus users subsidised.
September 22, 2023
Indeed. The Tory’s now resemble the Soviet 5 year tractor factory plans. You will buy useless electric cars or walk, cycle and use public transport even if it is infrequent and doesn’t go where you want it! Eat meat once a week and do not replace your clothes. The Climate Change Committee are now in charge. The legacy uni-party has to go.
September 22, 2023
+1
September 22, 2023
Yet more depressing idear & news from Hunt and Sunak.
Hunt – says that there is no possibility of any tax cuts in his Autumn statement. Well taxes are still increasing due to inflation mate can you reverse that. You could easily give huge tax cuts if you just cut out even just a small proportion of the vast government waste start with net zero, HS2, the soft loans for the largely worthless degrees… but foolishly are choosing not to.
Suanak wants to force people who are no good at maths or english to have to study it to 18 – even if they do not want to? A map policy, if they have not grasped them by 16 they would be far better off learning some manual jobs while working. They can learn a bit of maths working out how many bricks, roof tiles, pipes, sockets or planks they need and a bit of english in reading the specs, ordering materials or reading the installation instructions.
September 22, 2023
LL,
Technical colleges and polytechnics were a very good route to engineering and other types of skilled trades, businesses like aerospace used to send apprentices on day release. However, Uni party prefer mass immigration and keep the young off unemployment book with duff education and duff degrees. The Tories gold plated the Blaire scam to change our society. Idiots like Cameron admired him and wanted to emulate, just like invading Libya with the awful mass immigration route it has subsequently caused. Oh, and destruction of Libyan infrastructure ie the damn causing floods this week, not climate.
September 22, 2023
Apprenticeship starts
The 349,200 starts reported for the 2021/22 academic year are 8.6% higher than the 321,400 reported for 2020/21, 8.3% higher than the 322,500 reported for 2019/20, and are 11.2% lower than the 393,400 reported for 2018/19. gov.uk
Around 38% are going to University now. 1,288,160 students were in the first year of their course 2021/22 I don’t know what % of these were international students. The number of EU students choosing to study in the UK has dropped by half since Brexit, according to new official figures. Data from the Higher Education Statistics Agency (HESA) shows that enrollments by EU nationals dropped by 53%: from 64,120 students in 2020/21 to just 31,400 in 2021/22. EU students were eligible for UK tuition fee loans, fee education in Scotland and UK maintenance grants, I’m not sure how they get the graduate tax if they return to the EU after their studies come to an end.
September 22, 2023
An educator said this morning, it would make more sense to increase the maths standards at the beginning of pupils and students’ school life! Makes sense to me!
September 22, 2023
Rather like worrying about poor reading skills on going to secondary school.
Solution? Focus on basic reading, writing and grammar at Early Years, provide catch-up teaching where standard poor a year or two later.
September 22, 2023
No the Tory’s keep spending and encouraging permanent welfare in all its forms. No time limits. Another Ā£300 of my taxes to each welfare recipient on top of their benefits for their cost of living payment this winter. Its ok, we the 46% and reducing can afford it.
September 22, 2023
Lord Frost today:- āDismantle the power of the permanent bureaucracy.
Itās hard to deliver change when politiciansā hands are tied by the Civil Service and the quango state.ā
Indeed and the power of the lawyers to invent new laws, but this Con-Socialist Government is not really even trying to deliver anything positive are they?
September 22, 2023
There is no point on moving the date from 2030 to 2035. Vehicle manufacturers will have dialled in the closing down of ICE manufacture anyway, and we will still be able to get “second hand” cars imported.
This just makes him look weak and indecisive.
September 22, 2023
There should be no point in having a date at all. If EVs are superior people will buy them. Given that most of the world will not be transitioning to EVs – they have no hope of adequate electricity infrastructure to support them or the funds to afford them – in the interests of conserving resources we should continue to invest in making ICE vehicles more efficient. There is plenty of scope to do that according to the laws of thermodynamics.
September 22, 2023
I think you should get off this hobby horse. Batteries in EVs are much improved. Overheating is their enemy and modern EVs now have heat pumps and even radiators to keep the battery at optimum temperature. People who actually know about this stuff – who work with EVs for a living – say the batteries are good for 200,000 miles and will charge to 90% of original capacity after 10 years.
September 22, 2023
Well look at the guarantees manufacturers offer – nothing like 200,000 miles. So they clearly do not think so.
September 22, 2023
Newsnight last night (about 30 mins in) had a graph from the bonkers Committee for Climate Change showing expected expenditure to hit net zero and the benefits. They put the costs at about Ā£50 billion PA (a huge under estimate) and the graph suggested benefits would exceed this (but only after many years). They did not say what the benefits were (I assume because there are totally and laughably illusory). The BBC implied it would be āa break even pointā in 2044 the reported was mistaken, this was actually the point at which benefits only started to exceeded the on going costs. The break even point after capital costs, interest etc. would be more like 100+ years from now if ever. This based on this graph, but who on earth would even trust anything from the Committee for Climate Change Chaired by Lord Gummer. How can there be any net zero benefits at all if our reduction in CO2 is just taken up by China, India, Africaā¦ Anyway a bit more CO2 tree food is a net positive and greens the planet rather nicely. The plan is to make us all far poorer for the rest of our lives at least with zero benefit for even out childrenās children
September 22, 2023
The figures for the cost of Net Zero and the break even point will be even less reliable than the original estimated costs of the HS2 lunacy.
With the Vanity Train Line they were dealing with established technology; with the Net Zero lunacy they’re relying on technology which hasn’t been invented and maybe never will so they haven’t a scooby-doo what it will cost.
September 22, 2023
Even on their duff figures the āinvestmentā in net zero is totally moronic.
September 22, 2023
I listened to a bit more of the JR/ The Reunion Programme:-
Ken Clark āit is a mistake to believe that monetary union need be a huge step on a path to a federal Europeā Sure Ken – did he really actually believe this or was it just another lie?
John Redwood āIf the Conservative Party is not a party of low taxation it is nothingā. Indeed it is surely nothing. They are currently spending (& largely wasting) 46% of GDP and still delivering very little of any real value by way of decent public services. Much of what is does is hugely negative anyway – Net Zero, the road blocking, the wars on small business, landlords, the self employed, ULEZ, HS2, the vast net harm Covid vaccines, the largely worthless degree, the over regulation of everything, over restrictive planning, open door migration costs.
Current taxes are easily the highest for over 70 years and still rising due to Sunakās QE inflation & frozen allowances.
September 22, 2023
It’s all about the 5.6 million on welfare. Forget the bogus unemployment figure. That’s where the uni-party are throwing away our taxes at huge costs and no reform.
September 22, 2023
The truthful answer would have been “Yes of course we do, but we’re not going to tell you now and certainly not this side of a General Election.”
I’m on holiday at the mo and my televised news source is very limited but I did manage to catch the BBC hyperventilating about Sunak’s announcement that we’d align ourselves with the EU over the planned date to ban the sale of new petrol/diesel cars. Isn’t it strange how the BBC, which campaigns vigorously for all things EU, considers that aligning ourselves with it over this issue to be disastrous.
When is the Government going to enforce BBC impartiality?
September 22, 2023
This Con-socialist, woke, diversity obsessed, climate alarmist government rather like the BBC to push these bonkers policies, which the BBC do endlessly every day.
September 22, 2023
Allison Pearson said on GB News last night, that she and some of her Telegraph colleagues intend approaching Ofcom about the impartiality of the BBC.
I think they intend pointing out Ofcoms approach to stations such as GB News in comparison to BBC. It’s about time someone challenged them in this unfairness.
September 22, 2023
I see today Hunt has said “tax cuts are virtually impossible” so plainly there’s absolutely no way he’ll give up the petrol and diesel duty revenue without replacing it in another way. It is like renewable energy, its proponents say it is “cheaper” but they mean to produce, it is certain that it will never be cheaper for the end user.
Glad to see a graphic from Sunak yesterday saying that he is no longer going to introduce a tax on meat, but I’m a bit surprised that was one of his policies in the first place.
September 22, 2023
No such thing as ārenewableā energy of course – it come from radiated fusion on the sun (wind, wave, hydro, solar) the earths rotation (tidal), or nuclear in the core of the earth (geothermal) none are renewable just longish lasting. CO2 is vital plant food & not pollution, the climate has always changedā¦ best not to fall for their weasel words.
September 22, 2023
Could the Minister of State confirm the widely held suspicion that climate change is merely a political invention whose primary purpose is State control of our economic life? I believe some call this state of affairs Communism.
September 22, 2023
DOM
Yes, and that is the whole point of all related legislation. Control.
September 22, 2023
Well they moved from Global Warming to Climate Change, as it was not really warming much beyond the urban heat effect anyway. Plus slightly warmer is a jolly good thing on balance. Esp. in the cold UK save on heating costs and energy too.
September 22, 2023
DOM, ++++++, youāre quite right, so little chance of its being investigated and acted on.
September 22, 2023
6 EVs were tested to see what they cost per mile including capital costs, and the range actually achieved.
1. Mercedes – Ā£278.76 per mile; 81% of WLTP range
2. Ford – Ā£206.18 per mile; 77% of WLTP range
3. Polestar – Ā£175.64 per mile; 69% of WLTP range
4. Hyundai – Ā£163.90 per mile; 65% of WLTP range
5. VW – Ā£146.31 per mile; 84% of WLTP range
6. BYD – Ā£124.26 per mile; 91% of WLTP range
Who can afford these unreliable vehicles – insurance costs will escalate at the fires/write offs caused by bumps increase and there is nowhere to park because all multi-storied car parks are out of bounds. What is the write off of those capital costs?
And the Govt thinks it will increase taxes šš¤£
September 22, 2023
Indeed. To get away with Ā£1 a mile it needs to be a rather cheap EV with very limited range.
September 22, 2023
The BYD is cheap. The cheapest. You are still looking at a cost of one hundred and twenty four pounds and twenty six pence a mile!
September 22, 2023
I think you mean pence per mile.
September 22, 2023
No it POUNDS!I downloaded the final graph at 6.46 this morning. From the car news online. Entitled āHow far for how muchā I now cannot find the article. I have the picture but canāt post it here.
They started with fully charged batteries and drive on the A1 in a loop then tighter circle near Peterborough yo run the batteries flat.
JR is a car enthusiast and might be able to find the article.
September 22, 2023
Ah – Iām sorry, I found the article and itās āmiles per Ā£ā rather than āĀ£ās per mileā. So it is something between Ā£1.25 and Ā£1.80 per mile.
Funny way of expressing it and the figures are seemingly unrelated.
Anyway – EVs are still too expensive!
September 22, 2023
Net Zero, lockdowns and mass migration are policies by a small group of technocratic oligarchs personally deciding how they would like to run the country. The people donāt want it and the politicians CANāT want it. When Liz Truss tried to change things the BofE manipulated the bond markets to oust her. The technocrats decided after Brexit to have a coup.
In historical terms this is a coup by the barons for the barons.
September 22, 2023
+1
September 22, 2023
The question should have asked how many vehicles were expected to be on the road in 2030 and what replacement for the excise duty, VAT and taxes from the reduction had been planned Sir John
September 22, 2023
Also what electrical grid and generating (reliably) capacity was likely to be in place to cope with the EVs and heat-pumps. A huge increase will clearly be needed unless we are just expected to live in unheated houses with wearing thick jumpers and ski jackets and walk everywhere.
September 22, 2023
Rumours often surface of anti-Brexit forces going behind our backs to get us back into the EU, but the latest one has more substance.
Can we really trust our PM NOT to negotiate a new deal with the EU in secret, that makes the UK an associate member, while paying excessive amounts into the EU treasury but with no representation?
September 22, 2023
Yet another reason for giving EVs the cold shoulder.
When will government stop demanding and spending, spending, and spending our money. This insatiable leech needs the glowing end of a burning cigarette.
September 22, 2023
From his answer it’s obvious what the current thinking is. As many EVs cost in the region of Ā£40,000 or more they will be subject to the extra VED for 5 Years which is currently Ā£390 making the VED Ā£530. There will be an exorbitant cost just to keep a car on the road.
September 22, 2023
How can the government expect new car sales to be 80% EVs by 2030 when almost all private buyers are rejecting the very idea of running one ? Nobody I know is remotely interested in switching away from an IC-engined car. Most intend to buy a new car before they are banned and run it on indefinitely. Ditto their gas boilers. How can the government fine manufacturers in these circumstances ?
They cannot make EVs that much cheaper anytime soon, nor can they do anything about the pathetic range without increasing the size, weight and cost of the batteries ? The charging infrastructure is actually getting worse because new charging points are not keeping up with the number of EVs being put on the road. The likelyhood of finding one that is free and not broken is actually going to continue to get more difficult.
Then there are manufacturers like Jaguar whose foolish management has committed the brand to going all-electric by 2025 ! I can see their sales plummeting. They will then demand government support.
September 22, 2023
Rather than planning ahead like anyone sensible, Jeremy Hunt will probably react with shock to the unexpected fall in income from petrol and diesel duty. Preferably, well before it happens, a better government will be in place without him or any of the current wasters who lead mostly into expensive nuisances.
September 22, 2023
More expensive (Ā£40k) should read Ā£20k for the majority of the working population!
So, kept up the sleeve is another hike for ‘road tax licence’ and a mileage charge. Then we could have Council carparking to have a new levy per hour?
Any device (EVs) drawing more than a rated level will incur a Grid tax…..
City cars will be encouraged through less taxation.
September 22, 2023
All of the questions Sir John has put exposes the weakness of the Government’s planning and validatory position . Time has run out for Sunak to put together a team capable of basic sense in the running of the country ; the skills and intelligence are simply not there for an action programme to convince voters . Recently a group of 30 plus individuals met in Oxford and concluded the ” Country was in a right mess and there was no chance for this Government to sort things out “; the voices were all previous Conservative voters and individuals of substantial intellect .
September 22, 2023
Off topic
A government minister conspiring with social media platforms to have a popular presenter with 6.4 million subscribers demonetised
Is this what was meant by the Online Harms Bill
Anything which would harm the government?
Only Rumble told her where to go
September 22, 2023
Just to point out that the ‘Expensive Car Supplement’ (extra VED for all cars costing more than Ā£40,000) would apply to almost all EVs on the market – except for the tiddlers. Leaving the Ā£40K limit as it is would be a major fiscal drag, given current inflation.
The supplement, when instituted in April 2021 was called ‘Luxury Car Tax’ by the Treasury. This makes it clear that the mandatory purchase of an EV is forcing everyone to buy a ‘luxury’ – or be without transport.
We haven’t had Sumptuary Laws since the Middle Ages. Interesting to see them making a comeback today. Perhaps Treasury officials and ministers are so highly paid and so well-provided with expenses that for them Ā£40,000 is a detail, if they have to pay it at all.
September 22, 2023
The problem is a car on the second hand market worth say Ā£17,000 could have had a list price of Ā£42k when new so does it go off the purchase price second hand or the original or replacement value of the ev.
September 22, 2023
The Expensive Car Supplement applying at Ā£40k to EVs is nuts – last time I checked, just about the cheapest you can get is circa Ā£32k.
It seems the establishment is driving the proletariat off the road (excuse the pun). Public transport for the plebs, quiet, empty roads for the well off. Welcome back to village life. Westminster has a village idiot available and ready to be assigned to each hamlet, aka “your MP”.
September 22, 2023
Off Topic:
Re the TV tax/licence – one thing government should do as a priority is to remove from the BBC their abiloity to define who needs a TV licence.
When they moved to have the over 75s pay it, many people were surprised that they have the power to do that. Why is it not something determined by government?
Of course, getting rid of the darned thing is the best course of action, but as soon as the BBC reneged on the deal that over 75s should retain their exemption, that’s when government should have taken into their own hands the power to decide who pays the tax.
The BBC should never have been allowed to decide for themselves who pays a tax that is enforced by legislation and the justice system.
September 24, 2023
Iād rather this government paid over 75 year olds TV licence than inheritance tax changes right now at this moment.
Iād stop the horrible withdrawal of child benefit from one earner families earning Ā£50k.
Iād expect work from everyone on benefits according to their ability, instead of looking only at their disabilities, rather than saying what people canāt do, letās figure out what people can do. Letās have a can do revolution. Even if itās offering companionship to elderly neighbours on a phone list, litter picking, curb clearing now we donāt use pesticides, leaf picking up. Just look at the services the councils are no longer providing that they should, attach them to the parks volunteer teams, cleaning windows on locked up shops in our shopping centres.
Helping people to eat in our hospitals to free up nurses from delivering food and drink. Cleaning the toilets regularly so that cleaners can concentrate on deep cleaning. No one should get a free ride that claims off others. There is always something people can give to samartians, help in the community. If they canāt find themselves a purpose then divi up all these roles that people are crying about such as helping with disabled relatives, elderly people with dementia, loneliness, we need to redirect the benefits to minimum wage work for the community.
September 24, 2023
Oh all these male immigrants that are getting accommodation and funding for nothing, why arenāt they digging out HS2, put them on tags for monitoring, until they get their pass. Theyāre safe, they have a roof over their heads, food, clothing, phones. The days of them being able to do nothing for their money should end. All these lawyers need to shut their mouths too or they should do the lawyering free out of their own pockets pro bono. They need to earn their right to free legal aid, not many of us get it any longer.
September 22, 2023
All this nonsense stems from the Tories failing to repeal the Climate Change Act which should be renamed the Wreck the Economy Act. It affects almost all economic activity, apart from non essentials like banksterism, from farming and fishing to manufacturing and mineral extraction. Are the Tories good for anything apart from warmongering?
September 22, 2023
The answer on retail fuel prices shows tax of about 78ppl on motor fuel. That is 7.8p per mile for a car that gets 10 miles per litre. A typical EV manages about 3 miles per kWh, so EV charging should be taxed at 3×7.8 or 23.4p/kWh to equalise the taxes.
September 22, 2023
All of these questions have effectively been dodged.
NOTHING this Government does (and wrecks) is with confirmation of the viability and acceptance by ELECTED peer groups who should be DIRECTING proposed Government policy. The OBR was supposed to do some of this but has effectively become ‘surplus to requirements’. Until this democratic procedure is adopted, OUR country will never improve for us, the electorate.
There was a time, sadly, decades ago, when we could trust our Government to follow their election manifesto and do their best for US, the People. Certainly, for the past 30 years, we have been subjected to many numbers of pet vanity projects favoured by whoever is in power at the time and upon numerous occasions cost us tax payers serious money in failures. All because those scheme ‘scams’ were not thought through and costed properly before launch. My selection of headline pet projects were/are mass immigration, Globalisation, Prematurely scrapping VSTOL Harrier aircraft, Designing and building new Aircraft Carriers without any planes to fly from them, OTT Overseas Aid, AGW, OTT Green policies, Net-Zero, Heat pumps and EVs. How many Ā£Trillions are we in for or have lost at this precise time just on those, I wonder?
Any chance of extracting a straight answer from the Treasury, SJ?
September 22, 2023
If it’s true ( who knows ) that there are legions of nudgers, blog monitors, fact checkers etc, I imagine that many of them must be questioning stuff by now.