The Direct Grant  school I attended with a free place by exam did offer us extra maths and English education beyond GCSE (then O level ).
We did Maths and English O levels a year early, and then offered Additional Maths and Further English Studies at the end of the fifth form with  public exams.  This meant we did tackle calculus,trigonometry and more complex algebra and geometry. The average age of the class to take English and maths O level  was a bit over 15. I took them around the date of my 14 th birthday as I had jumped a year at primary school.
We took the French O level at the end of the first term in the fifth form and had a two term course encouraging us to read French literature with no public exam at the end.
I took 5 more O levels as well as Add Maths and Further English Studies at the end of the fifth form.
In the sixth form we had to take a Use Of English exam which we were told some universities required , and I sat 3 A levels in Economics, History and English.
My experience of the fourth and fifth forms was of hard work with a lot of rote learning, but some good grounding in basics that were needed later on. We  were taught from a text book or from a lesson plan designed by the teacher.  I found latin particularly testing, exacerbated by not enjoying what you could read when you managed to understand a bit more of it. I was not interested in Caesarâs Gallic wars or Vergilâs Trojan wanderings. I disliked the Roman invasion of Britain and their slave based system.
My experience of the sixth form was transformational. My History teacher taught us a crucial lesson at the start of the A level course. He told us we needed to read widely and find out about the subject. He could not do the work for us. He was not going to tell us how to answer questions. I realised it was up to me to spend time reading. I needed  to set myself high standards and form my own judgements about the questions and issues raised.I did not have to stay for the sixth form and teachers were not going to accept responsibility for my choice to stay and study their subject. I needed to be really interested in it myself.
The first two terms were very difficult. I was very self critical, aware of how little I knew and struggling to find a style of writing which did justice to my thoughts and knowledge as it grew. The English course provided part of the answer. The teacher told us to ignore the set texts of the A level syllabus for the first year and spend the time  reading widely to get a sense of the span and range  of English literary output. Best of all we were asked to write an essay about a different Shakespeare play each week. This enabled me to study  the best writing and phrase making. If you want to write well, read well was a phrase I subsequently came across.
My A level experience was further changed by winning on open scholarship to Oxford by examination in the fourth term of the sixth form. Suddenly all I needed was two grade E passes at A level to qualify for a student grant. Oxford did not require A levels as they had examined me in four 3 hour exams already. I chose to continue with my 3 subjects but was even freer to study them as I saw fit. The School kindly arranged a readers ticket for me at the local Universitylibrary to give me access to more material.
It meant when I arrived at Oxford I was well advanced in my studies . The College kindly procured a pass for me to attend seminars for research postgraduates to be closer to the cutting edge of the subject. I will draw some conclusions about what we can learn and how we can learn with help from a school from my experiences in a later blog.
I sketch this as it serves to remind us that schools can show flexibility if they wish, and more maths can be included before entry to the sixth form.
September 26, 2023
French literature was no practical value. The first few years of French were useful. Studying the Letters of Madame de Sevigne or a depressing existentialist novel by Camus was not.
However, the French teacher was a Welsh lady from the Valleys whose family were Italian. So we also learnt that for a year – no literature – and passed the O level. Useful for hitchhiking but I have mostly forgotten it now.
We also studied Latin. Catholic grammar schools in the old days had plenty of experience in that. âCaesarâs Gallic warsâ and twisted translations â the having been defeated soldiers of the Swissâ etc. It was less boring than Greek. Euripides âIphegeniaâ. I did not want to study this but the combinations offered meant I had to. Grammar schools offered classics because public schools did so. Pass rates were good because pupils were bright. Classics have virtually disappeared in state schools now.
The teachers at the time were of a high standard. I understand it is very difficult to find good maths teachers now.
Anthony Crosland was the Labour politician who killed the grammar schools. He studied Lifelogicâs hobby horse subject at Oxford and famously stated :-
â “If it’s the last thing I do, I’m going to destroy every ****ing grammar school in England. And Wales and Northern Ireland.â
September 26, 2023
Why would Crosland want to do that?
September 26, 2023
JH,
Misguided Fabian notions of equality of opportunity and concerns that pupils at secondary modern schools were regarded as failures.
Crosland ignored the fee-paying public schools. After grammar schools closed there was also less competition for them from good quality free schooling.
September 27, 2023
It seems Crossland got second class honours degree in Classical Moderations in Greek and Latin Literature at Oxford not PPE. He himself went to the private Highgate School as these lefties so often seem to – Corbyn, Starmer, Tony Benn, Balls, Gove, Sunak, Cameron, Boris, OsborneâŠ
September 27, 2023
Lifelogic,
According to Wikipedia :-
âAfter the war, Crosland returned to Oxford University and obtained first class honours in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, which he studied in 12 months; he also became President of the Oxford Union. He then became a university don at Oxford, tutoring in Economicsâ
Perhaps your encyclopaedic knowledge of the academic qualifications of people in the news has a gap ?
September 27, 2023
and how many would you and partner wish to spend an evening meal out with?
September 26, 2023
They were the days I also look back in with fondness but today Foucault, Mao and Marx dictate school content and school’s become a political experience not an academic or social experience. A direct result of the Left’s eternal determination to subjugate coupled with the Tories infinite desire to appease them.
Academia, sport, life and sexual awakening are filtered through the requisite prisms of feminism, gender, race to conjure a demon from thin air and grant victimhood and political privilege to his unfortunate ‘victims’. Justice must be sought and solutions imposed to achieve social progress. Equity and equality posing as fronts for the authoritarian barbarism of this extremist and hate fuelled ideology
It’s game over for reason, truth, logic and critical thought replaced by an ideology based on revenge, hate, poison and bile
September 26, 2023
JR,
In your era you did not have an army seeking to help children with special needs and all manner of newly invented syndromes (imagine all those children after the war without fathers, uncles grandfathers and true hardship, they managed to behave in school).
School policies are put in place to help children with special needs. However, special needs include top 5% of children as well as bottom percentile- to prevent these children becoming bored and disaffected. Boredom could be miss-interpreted for bad behaviour. You will find nothing is done for top the 5% anymore. The excuse there is no money and funds should go to the children with special needs at the bottom.
Scraping grammar schools was at least a way of helping these children from ordinary backgrounds with higher intellectual ability. All routes cancelled by your party and the the half of Uni party. Blaire had an idea of inflating grades and pretend everyone is bright to go to university, your party gold plated it and allowed children with lower grades to go to the best better universities than children with higher grades from private schools!! A race to the bottom by your Uni party. Labour now wants to further the dumb8ngmdown by taxing private schools!!
September 27, 2023
Any junior school teacher will tell you far too much effort goes into dealing with the disruption of the clever but bored and the dim and neglected at home.
September 26, 2023
And most importantly, all of this meddling is hurting children rather than helping them. Young people in the UK have higher mental health need than ever. 1 in 6 young people in England (aged 5 to 16) experienced a mental health problem in 2020, up from 1 in 9 in 2017. Nearly one-third of 16-24 year olds in the UK (31%) reported some evidence of depression or anxiety in 2017 to 2018. MIND
8 Feb 2022 â 60% more young people have a probable mental health condition in 2021 compared to 2017. The Health Foundation.
5 Dec 2022 â One in four teenagers aged 17-19 have a mental health difficulty, an increase from one in six in 2021. Centre for Mental Health
September 26, 2023
Sorry to say it but all this nonsense about â mental healthâ is making wimps out of British children. They must learn to think out problems they encounter, then work for the result required.
I could never have got on with the amount of book learning that Sir John worked with, I left primary school able to read write and count and started an apprenticeship in heavy engineering along with night school learning the technical side of my job and found that exciting.
Now at 78 and retired I look back at my career with satisfaction. I passed my second and chief engineer tickets and travelled the world until my own children arrived.
I left the MN to help the love of my life rear our children how we thought was right.
I ended my career with positive security vetting and as the estate manager of a Royal Marine Barracks of Commando Logistic Regiment to settle to a quiet home in Devon.
I have said all this to illustrate there are many roads in life if one is willing to use ones brain and tackle the problems when they crop up.
It seems to me too many want carried and that is not not good for all of us.
Fight and never give in
September 26, 2023
I absolutely agree with you MFD you are a similar age to my Dad, he worked 70 hours per week so my Mother could take care of their three children and just take on a bit of part-time work to help pay the bills until my brother left school, his hours dropped and her hours picked up. He is happy with his life. Happy that all three of his children got the social mobility up a ring or two of the ladder through effort, merit and a drive he gave us all to succeed. We all passed that on to our children. He fixed machinery in factories most of his life and felt valued and that he personally added value (so I don’t know why Starmer’s father as a toolmaker didn’t feel valued I suppose it’s a state of mind).
I’m frankly getting a bit sick of hearing Britain is rubbish, the North is totally rubbish, where we all are now is nothing like his childhood or ours; things have got a lot better, yes, even for his grandchildren and great-grandchildren. This relentless messaging about how bad everything is, from the NHS to schools to roads, it’s as though no advances have been made when I see them with my own eyes. We started breaking through some class ceilings, although I’m not going to lie, they’re still there, it may take the next generation of our family to really smash through the class and connection barriers, but I have confidence in them and isn’t that what social mobility is truly about, just improving your families lot bit by bit and that’s why people get so annoyed with inheritance taxes that the rich can protect themselves from with their trusts. If the State makes the mistake of stopping people from passing on to their own then many will just stop driving and pushing forward now.
September 26, 2023
Britain isn’t rubbish but a great many of its politicians are.
September 26, 2023
There’s the Bologna System-intended to harmonize higher education across Europe.
Following an indication from President Putin in a speech in February 2022,Russia has,this year,withdrawn from the system.
University News,19/5/23:”Russia pushes ahead with switch away from Bologna System”:-
“Russia is pressing ahead with plans to remove itself from the Bologna system and re-structure its higher education system to better meet the needs of its labour market…..testing of the new system is expected to commence this year.”
September 26, 2023
A very thoughtful and enjoyable recollection of your school years, SJR. But I fear your conclusion may be wrong. Yes, schools could show flexibility then, but now with the National Curriculum flexibility is not the idea at all. It’s all about meeting measurable annual targets instead. I suspect teachers today reading your ‘The teacher told us to ignore the set texts of the A level syllabus for the first year and spend the time reading widely’ would have eyes popping out of their head!
Still, I did enjoy reading about how it was ‘in the day’, when individuals and institutions could display initiative and intelligence. So different from the dull uniform managerialism of today. Where did it all go wrong?
September 26, 2023
The evolution of the national curriculum, perhaps. In a bid to level up, it resulted in mediocracy and averaging and a concentration on jumping over minimum benchmarks.
September 26, 2023
Once you have covered the national curriculum you can go on and many gifted children still do. One of my relations, at school in Birmingham during the war, was trusted with the teachers own books and a developed a love and appreciation for leather bound parchment which he would otherwise never have encountered.
September 26, 2023
Indeed interesting sound like a good school my State Grammar was reasonable too but with a few subjects lacking good teaching. The key surely is that the pupils actually needs to desire and be inspired to want to learn. Just forcing people (who do not want to study more Maths and English after 16) to do so is unlikely to achieve very much if they have not leaned much by 16. Pupils need to find what they are interest in. Be this fixing cars, getting a building job, making videos or academic studies. Freedom and choice and learning on the job perhaps best for many post 16.
Another bit of distraction politics âPrime Minister Rishi Sunak is reportedly set to announce proposals which would force convicted rapists to serve their full sentence as part of a âgear changeâ on crime.â
One as sumes that judges (when sentencing) know what proportion of the sentence is likely to be served and so will just adjust accordingly? Why just rapists and not other violent crimes like murders and stabbings or all crimes? Anyway we have no free prison places and prisons are run extremely badly. One of Britain’s longest-serving victims of a miscarriage of justice, Malkinson, 57, had his conviction overturned last month by the court of appeal after spending 17 years in prison for a rape he did not commit. Has he had his compensation yet. Why on earth did the system fail so miserably here and indeed in the case of the Post Master convictions?
Rishi alarmed by runaway costs of HS2 so why only now? Was he not the Chancellor who continued funding this sick joke of a transport âinvestmentâ for two and a half years.
September 26, 2023
@ Lifelogic “One assumes that judges (when sentencing) know what proportion of the sentence is likely to be served and so will just adjust accordingly?” – I don”t think so. Judges are given sentencing guidelines that they are required to follow (I suppose with the aim of achieving consistency across the justice system) and whilst those allow for variations, all such rest upon stated criteria (like for example, effect upon victims, remorse exhibited, extent of planning, severity of violence used) and do not give a judge much discretion.
September 26, 2023
Perhaps, why be a judge if you are not allowed to judge what sentence is appropriate given the facts of the case? Why have some sentences where one serves 100% of the sentence but others that you do not. Does not seems sensible and rape covers a huge range crime from people who believed they had consent but the court found otherwise perhaps due to alcohol intoxication or similar all the way through to random attacked that were almost murders or attempted murders. An incentive for good behaviour in jail is surely sensible.
September 26, 2023
LL,
Strict guidelines to be followed by judges and magistrates on sentencing. Failure to do so leads to appeal. Tories have failed the judiciary system. Moreover it is one the professions targeted by Blaire to become left wing woke. Unfortunately another failure by Tories to make changes to left wing selection processes of the judiciary.
September 26, 2023
Plus both man and woman might have been similarly intoxicated.
September 26, 2023
Of course Russell Group universities used also ensure students had 6 A grade GCSEâs including Maths and English.
JRâs party, as part of its social engineering, changed grades as the bench mark for those selected to university to be replaced with those with potential!! It does not pay to work hard under JRâs party. We see it in quota selection for jobs, to become a Tory MP. Same for immigration and all parts of society under JRâs party.
A piece of nostalgia by JR which has no relevance to his party or govt for the last 14 years.
September 26, 2023
Well that is me out then.
Plenty of Aâs but I did only get a B in English Language. Fortunately Cambridge did not mind for Maths – just needed C or above.
It is quite interesting, looking at old maths and physics O levels (easy to compare) the huge difference in standards of questions between now and 1960-1970âs. My daughter is doing Maths A level this year but would struggle with many old O-level questions even more so with Additional Maths O levels.
September 26, 2023
Radio 4 just now talking about the really quite large fall in life expectancy in 2020-2022 in Scotland (for both men and women). They said Covid âmayâ be a factor. Of course it is a factor you dopes though more covid deaths in men so easy to estimate the degree of the Covid factor. But so too is the net harm Covid vaccines, if you look at the stats then the later is perhaps even the larger factor, but the BBC and Gov. clearly do not want to do this. JUST sweep it under the carpet together with Andrew Bridgen. This will not work it is worldwide and the stats are all too clear.
They also talk about poverty and deprivation but surely ill health leads to deprivation far more obviously than deprivation leads to ill health. This especially when obesity, smoking, drugs and over drinking are rather a problem – not really âdeprivationâ but choices people make.
September 26, 2023
the latter!
September 26, 2023
My school reports are full of teachers urging more reading. Your lesson of to write well you need to read well is a truism and one that I do not think many of today’s pupils are encouraged in.
But and this is crucial reading comes in all forms and those texts that schools and curriculums force on their pupils are often demotivating and dull. Reading needs to be relevant to each pupil.
September 26, 2023
I agree with you NS.
September 26, 2023
GCSEs have become a pointless exam. It would be better to abolish them and not have public exams mid-school career. Iâm not sure any other countries have this? I agree with the PM the international bacc or an equivalent would be better than A-levels.
September 26, 2023
R,
No, a return to chalk and talk, less group table work where the bright are dragged down by the unruly, more discipline, teachers who have passed their exams and have intellectual rigour rather than ones who have A level grades D,E,E like my family member!
September 26, 2023
No, Richard, let’s not abolish one of the few measures employers have and children have to be taught the basics.
Small business doesn’t have a three-day in-house exam system to hire.
In the 1970s, idealistic young activists created a wave of experimental schools – no compulsory lessons, no timetables, no rules. So what happened to the kids who attended these free-for-alls? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29518319
In any other walk of life, jobs that are difficult to fill get a premium payment attached to them. If there is a struggle to get a good Maths teacher, what options are there? To hire maths experts who can jump straight into Management, Deputy Head, and Division leaders just to get the extra payment? How many secondary schools accommodate part-time maths teachers who only want to work 2-3 days?
“The lack of exams is a regret.”
September 26, 2023
I used to give all new employees some simple maths and english tests – some had reasonable GCSE but were appalling at writing a simple letter of complaint or working out the vat included in a bill of say ÂŁ500 inclusive. Even if using a calculator.
September 26, 2023
Would you hire someone who hadnât taken any qualifications?
September 26, 2023
Schooling was of higher quality before Shirley Williams and Tony Blair interfered.
September 26, 2023
Thatcher as Education Sec and then PM sadly closed the most of very good grammar schools it seems.
September 26, 2023
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/07/thatcher-grammars-poison-theresa-may-tories
Every grammar was creaming off the top 20%, this results in three secondary moderns with no top streams of high achievers.
September 26, 2023
Comprehensive education has resoundingly and singly failed the nation. It needs fundamental changes.
September 26, 2023
In what way has it failed the nation Hope? I know many successful comprehensively schooled adults with excellent qualifications from top Russell Group universities.
I feel our teaching standards are dropping, too many people without adequate qualifications being accepted onto teacher training.
I think the top 10% in comprehensives could be stretched much more than they are now instead of being expected to sit with the naughty, the strugglers and help them to keep up, they should be allowed to sit GCSEs early as John did then take early AS level modules, not all schools do that. There used to be Gifted and Talented, Blair ruined it.
September 26, 2023
Indeed so the teaching can be better adjusted to their skill levels and the pupils interests. One does not hold up the others. People can still still move to the grammar (and visa versa) at perhaps 13,14,16 if best suited.
September 26, 2023
No they couldnât though. I was in the top set, I was never asked if I wished to do a 13+ examination for entry to grammar school no-one was. Youâd never be able to catch up either the ethos in the two different schools wouldnât allow for it without considerable home work done with a tutor.
Do you know anyone that moved from Secondary Modern up to Grammar but still achieved 7 O levels?
September 26, 2023
It seems to have varied between counties from 15-20% to 30%.
Also equating ‘academic’ with ‘high achievers’ is as value-laden as sociologists labeling the various occupations as A, B, C1 & C2 all the way ‘down’ to D & E. Some of the professional classes, that’s A, may indeed be essential to an advanced society but you couldn’t possibly run it without people doing the cleaning, gardening, hard landscaping, tiling, window cleaning, car maintenance, fruit picking, bus driving, re-wiring the derelict 1900s Arts and Craft house you’ve just purchased, etc. 50 years of the ‘chattering classes’ running down such occupations – led by certain PMs – probably accounts for the perennial shortage of people who can do them.
Meanwhile, many ‘middle managers’ and the like, that’s group B I think, along with clerical, i..e. some of C1 I think, could be eliminated and things could be just fine. But in the NHS, civil service and large parts of the private sector the numbers employed in dead-end office jobs grow out of control. Read the brilliant book ‘Bullshit Jobs’.
September 26, 2023
Good morning Sir John
So what you are saying you were taught how to âlearnâ as opposed to being indoctrinated with the views of one sector of society.
You were encouraged to open your mind to the views of others and then form a position going forward. I would guess that is still how you see things even today
How things have changed
September 26, 2023
+1.
September 26, 2023
The above is also why the take up of Maths is poor, you have to know how to learn and think to produce a result. The left wing Socialist thinking in UK schools frowns upon pupils having their own brain.
September 26, 2023
Concentration is important for maths. It is best to understand things as you progress through a term or else ask questions at the time. Daydreaming and then swatting up before an exam is not as easy as in other subjects.
September 26, 2023
I was sent to a Convent Boarding School age 5-10. Rote learning, weekly Maths, English and spelling tests (passed 11+). A thorough basic grounding. Then to Technical High where I applied myself to 8 O- levels, 2 A’s and City & Guilds in Catering. Despite being a bit of a rebel, challenging anything I perceived as unfair during my childhood, and there was plenty, I nevertheless knuckled down to my studies with successful outcomes.
My daughters were messed around with phonetics in Primary school. I paid for tutoring to help them through their O- levels. One went on to do an Economics degree at Canterbury, one went to Art College. Both have pursued very successful careers even though their spelling is still shocking!
I think teachers today have a much bigger struggle to hold the attention of pupils. The teachers I know complain of poor behaviour and time wasted trying to maintain order in the classroom. Forcing teenagers to extend their school years is not a great idea. What has happened to sound careers advice? Many children will be much happier leaving school earlier and pursuing an apprenticeship or obtaining other qualifications eg an HGV licence. Too much value is still placed on university degrees and some teenagers are ill-advised to sign up for courses they seem ill-prepared to pursue.
September 26, 2023
Most UK university degrees (circa 75%) are virtually worthless. Certainly not worth the ÂŁ50k plus three years loss of earnings they cost the individuals or more often cost the other tax payers.
September 26, 2023
The University Industry is another piece of crony capitalism that benefits rather few & at vast taxpayer expense. Rather like HS2, net zero, renewablesâŠ
September 26, 2023
These experiments in reading called ita were so disadvantageous to children’s progress in English that my cousins were confused over spellings for years.
Theliteracyblog writes “at first sight, appear to be a great idea. At the same time, as the title of the post suggests, it was a disaster â because so many children were left floundering it its wake.”
September 26, 2023
Well loads of English spelling are indeed confusing and totally irrational you just have to learn them as it seems they cam never to be allowed to evolve to become more sensible.
Ghost, write, rite, right, sight, might, mite, their, there for examples. Why too do we always need a u after q if it is always needed then why bother? Why too do we have a soft c and a hard k but very often they are not used as such and we even have both âsickâ? Double letter often daft too.
September 26, 2023
Had not heard of ITA reading sustems, looks like a daft idea to me making it rather more complex not less. Doubtless it sold a lot of text books etc. Follow the money!
September 26, 2023
It was taught a lot in catholic primary schools. Experiments can be disastrous to the test group.
On the English spelling, dyslexics can also have problems with sentence structure, they like to write logically rather than fluidly and they will miss out words and conjunctions. When they read words back they see the word as though correct.
There are also problems with words like neck and knee, whole and hole, lines merge when reading but it is better to read from coloured paper rather than white or using a coloured plastic sheet over the page. You can sometimes spot dyslexia if a child likes to use a lot of stabilo markers, post it notes of different colours to mark texts and a concentration on fact based essays.
September 26, 2023
So one person, Sir John Redwood, benefited from this, and every commenter so far thinks the case for education of this type is solid. You all need education – first of all in staistically robust sample size
September 26, 2023
I didn’t say the case for this type of education only was solid.
Everyone needs a good education. Not only the education of those all-rounders or stem experts or technical experts. ALL have different needs.
A Levels
T levels (BTECS)
Foundation Courses
International Bacc with six subjects.
You jump in with your single-minded anti-whatever John R writes. What is your objection to one strand of education for the top 5% being like Johns delivered by the comprehensive system?
September 26, 2023
The Gifted Children are always a minority. But they need special educational strategy because, bluntly, they will feed more of us than any of the others.
September 26, 2023
This is true Lynn just think where we would be if we hot-housed more people like James Dyson BUT testing should be done without anyone knowing the content of exams in advance, no swatting up, testing on memory isnât the same as testing on core ability.
If we spent anything like the money we spend on the bottom 5% on the top 5% it would make an enormous difference to the success of the UK. Their parents also wouldnât be whinging about travelling 40 mins to their school or demand that individual taxis should only carry their child to specialist educational opportunities.
September 26, 2023
Briefly… when my eldest son went to grammar school, the National Curriculum was just being introduced.
The school’s policy was to teach it at the beginning of the year and go on to teach more of each subject as they had previously. My point is that the NC was not as comprehensive learning as had previously been taught, and so the teachers had to point this out for the exams… the students had gone beyond what was required and to rein in knowledge to fit the exam requirements.
Schools should be allowed flexibility to teach their subjects as they see fit according to their students.
Unfortunately, the NC has effectively done all the work for teachers to an extent and removed some innovation. But I suppose, for some schools, it means students get a better level of teaching than they might have done otherwise?
My son’s school always said to aim for A for effort and the attainment level would fall into place. He left, well read and at his Russell group university, because of some health issues in his final year, was able to self teach himself through his degree!
Sorry, not so brief.
September 26, 2023
On the topic of education, I hear the Labour Party intend to apply VAT to school fees.
Why? How much income will this generate for the Treasury?
Surely private education is something to be encouraged, so as to reduce the burden on state schools.
Is this policy inspired by the civil service, who see the children of the hoi-polloi going to public schools, only to exit and challenge for the jobs they thought belonged to them and their posh friends?
September 26, 2023
At 13 I joined a class given c. 2 extra hours a week of mathematics in a mostly forlorn effort to get us up to standard. I have no recollection of any classmates flourishing and because the approach was to use the time to do the same just much more slowly I found it added only boredom rather than proficiency. The unsatisfactory outcome was that at 16 I sat for CSE rather than O level.
My solution was to sit for 0 level at 17, for which there was a class, but having consulted the two brightest students in my year (both to become Oxford PhDs) about their techniques, I also obtained a series of past papers (with answers) and put much effort into mastering those. The result was a pass at a fair grade and the comment from the teacher âYou must have done more work than I thoughtâ. You got that right pal!
I subsequently learned a bit of mathematics useful for business and was pleased that I had done an undergraduate course that applied a lot of statistical techniques. I have worked alongside colleagues with mathematics degrees and a few times their superior insight has been a real help but typically business is beset by other problems and mathematics is not used very much. Having my youth messed up by plans like those of Mr. Sunak would have been a hindrance I am glad I avoided.
September 26, 2023
Your experiences show just how bad schools are now at encouraging real education.
I left school at 14 3/4 with a minimum of knowledge – barely enough to get me a low paid job.
I was not a bright student but did well in subjects I enjoyed, but even so I left school ignorant of life and with few aspirations There was little push at school to do better and explore life, there was just acceptance that you were your parents.
From what I have observed schooling now is made poorer still by the introduction of wokism and fairness.
Despite my own very basic education I did manage to persevere and get interesting jobs – I learned ‘on the job’ and gained some success in life — BUT that was only because of that brief period mid last century when technology was exploding enough to take in the ill-educated and give them a career.
Today we have the opposite situation where the world is imploding, with fewer real jobs even for the bright. Now it seems that kids are being trained to be less smart and less well read, for some global purpose.
September 26, 2023
âdid well in subjects I enjoyedâ that is surely the key – get people to have some enthusiasm and interest in what ever you can. Learning on the job works well for many people one they see a need to learn they often do.
September 26, 2023
The point of higher level maths was to produce mathematicians, physics scientists and engineers. The subject is exacting and there’s no hiding place in flim-flam and nor could it be distorted by political ideology. A failure to reach higher level maths was a brutal but necessary exclusion from engineering, physics and maths courses at university. A student could graduate unaffected by indoctrination and it offered a life pathway (for want of a better reason) to savants, autistics, pedants and introverts who could not be bothered with idealism.
Today we hear (in the interests of diversity) that students are going to be granted bursaries of around ÂŁ600k to elevate them in the sciences.
Enter the era when Western rockets blow up on launch pads and drugs don’t work. Where innovation never happens.
The Human Rights Blob has made this country ungovernable in any conservative way. The Conservatives have been banned for all intents and purposes. Voting for them is utterly futile, the people well know it and the next general election will see them in permanent exile in one gigantic sit-down non-vote.
The Gold Standard of the A level has been replaced with brass. Let’s switch to the IB for our own sake and NOT a British Baccalaureate. We just can’t be trusted any more.
September 26, 2023
How do I apply for this ÂŁ600k for students?
September 26, 2023
@Paula +1
Agreed. My Son finished up at such a school that still had a Maths and Science ethos. That got him into University doing Maths and Engineering at Warwick. As such an Engineering firm picked him in his first year and paid for his passage through University.
The same firm still does that each year now, as do many other Engineering and Science based firms. How many PPE graduates are sort after for their training, expertise and get the financial backing that pays them through Uni
September 26, 2023
The political war waged by the left against Grammar schools and Direct Grant schools was and remains the greatest blow against education and social mobility that has ever been inflicted. I came from a modest background of ex grammar school parents who believed in the value of education to the extent of moving from an idyillic rural situation to that of big city suberbia, from which they had previously escaped, to ensure their children had the best choice of opportunity in education.
Like you I went to a Direct Grant academic powerhouse of a school that offered every experience imaginable both educational, sport and extra curicula. We were taught to make use of all available information to come to our own conclusions. We too enjoyed accelerated exam taking and the joys of trigonometry and calculus. We had our own weather observatory and learnt a lot about it, which is possibly why I shun the fanaticism of climate change, knowing that change is and always has been a feature of climate.
Appart from excellence of education. A sixth form of 100 producing 40 plus entries to Oxbridge of which 24 gained scholarships, the remaining sixty enterred red brick universities and the military. The same boys excelled at sport , producing four county cricketers and an MCC captain. I was relatively small beer amongst my peers but enjoyed learning to shoot, fly, and rockclimb, talents I have enjoyed throughout my life. Ironically, not once using the trigonometry or calculus, even when navigating at sea or in the air unless it was subliminal, and that was well before sat nav.
It was politicians who cut off thousands of working class children from such excellence and opportunity. Qualities many had enjoyed themselves but resented others following. For that they should be for ever damned.
September 26, 2023
Wot, no PPE? It’s unsurprising you remain a backbencher with the current lot, lol.
September 26, 2023
Sir John Hicks (LSE Noble prize-winner in Economics) said that studying PPE at Oxford taught him very little about a number of subjects.
September 26, 2023
The values learned at home in the family are vital. Destroy the family and you destroy society.
September 26, 2023
Cynic,
Very true. Stability and a sound outlook on life are important. Good schools have support of the parents and often maintain a certain esprit de corps.
Now trendy politicians are setting out to destroy faith schools too. These often have better exam results than other state schools so they have to go in the interest of uniformity.
September 26, 2023
Sir John,
I find your description of your education very interesting. I too, went to a Direct Grant school, but from a private preparatory school, at the age of thirteen. In most of the basic subjects, I think it is true to say that I learnt very little that was new, before taking ‘O’ levels at 15. Exceptions were Physics and Chemistry which had not been taught at my prep school, but this did not prevent me from obtaining good grades at ‘O’ level in two years from a standing start.
There are two points that I think are relevant to this discussion. The first is that I am not a natural mathematician, but like you I took Additional Maths. My experience with this, which I found very difficult, convinces me that there is some sort of ‘Sound barrier’ with mathematics through which it is virtually impossible to pass unless you have particular aptitude, and if the course resulting from Mr Sunak’s proposals is to be in any way demanding, it will be totally wasted on a huge proportion of those on whom it is forced, and whose time would be much better used on other subjects for which they have natural ability.
I have had a successful carrier in the financial services industry, for which numeracy, as provided by the grounding given by ‘O’ levels in my day, and now one hopes, by GCSE, is essential, but mathematical genius is certainly not. I think it is at the GCSE level that Mr Sunak should be looking. If pupils have not shown the ability, or have not had the necessary good teaching, to deal with this, why should extending mathematics into the ‘A’ level years, make any difference?
My second point is that I found, I think from what I read, like yourself, that the intellectual gap between ‘O’ level and ‘A’ level was quite dramatic. The intention of ‘A’ level was, and I hope still is, to give you a specialist knowledge of the subjects that you were reading, with the scope for some original thought and interpretation. Success required very hard work. I think this is their real value, and to dilute any of them to make them ‘accessible’ to a wider audience would remove their point. I also think that starting a degree course at university, would be made much harder without the grounding, and training in working, provided by a tight group of relevant ‘A’ levels. These might, or might not, include mathematical subjects.
September 26, 2023
A while back I employed a guy over from Jamaica. He came to the UK to study to become an Accountant. A really bright and pleasant guy.
He had the full load of requisite GCE(O Level) and GCE â A levels, the real ones, all authorised by the Oxford Exam board in the UK. However, he couldnât get on a course or taken on in the UK because they werenât âGSCEâsâ.
While working for me he went to night school, got these alternate passes and is now an accountant.
September 26, 2023
Things I observe people doing for a living here in West Dorset:
Scaffolding
Roofing
Building
Caring
Personal Training
Cleaning
Hospitality
Yoga Teaching and similar
Physiotherapist
Chiropractor
Teaching art and similar
Dance and aerobics teachers
Delivery drivers
Farming
I could go on and on – but you donât need to be great at Maths or English for any of those jobs.
September 26, 2023
I missed out therapists. Lots of therapists down here helping people with their problems. Problems caused, no doubt, by their lack of Maths and English. Or, perhaps some caused by a government that is no use.
September 26, 2023
And gardeners. Lots of gardeners working here. And taxi drivers.
September 26, 2023
That’s probably why a lot of those jobs are done by foreign-origin workers, Mike. At least, they are here, in the Thames Valley.
September 26, 2023
You were very fortunate; who inculcated this desire for knowledge into you, your parents, grandparents or primary school teacher/s?
My mother thought my bookish way was a negative thing; thank goodness I could take myself off to a local library a walk away from my home and swap out books of my choice; it’s not like today, where you can download books on your photo or computer although I wouldn’t have had either as our house phone was locked.
I should be out socialising, not sat in my room reading, she would say. Teachers, rather than giving me a love of reading, gave me boring lessons of whole class reading held back by others and taking a term just to read Moonfleet.
As well as looking at what your education got right, you need to look at what those left behind had access to. My children all went to primary and secondary school predominantly in the Labour years 1995-2012. Starmer considers this ‘the best record on education’. There were many experimental changes and big class sizes, all at least 30. My children did well because of our interventions (not private tutors), allowing them to pursue their paths and subject choices, our looking back at what failed for us and what we had to spend a lot of money on extra training outside of education.
One of my children is a high-functioning dyslexic; forcing spellings into her on a daily basis and getting her to read plays and books she enjoyed got her through her exams, but the school didn’t even pick that up; a few simple assists would have made a massive difference to her, and I’m not talking about extra time in exams.
September 26, 2023
Looking back, I am immensely grateful for the vision, wisdom, and dedication of many of the teachers I encountered in my school years. The system was loosely founded on Christian principles, from which, sadly, it was already falling away. What we now see is the fruit of that ‘lostness’. It has become so bad that I know of good teachers who’ve had to resign, as they could no longer work within the hollow ‘progressive’ system that now prevails. I also know of families who have opted for home schooling. This same phenomenon has affected all our institutions, including, as we discussed here a few days ago, the Church of England. The only comfort is that the great treasure we have in the English language, namely the King James Bible, eloquently and accurately foretells that this great apostasy would eventually overtake the world, and what the outcome would be. And that is the greatest of all comforts, and the most vital of all life’s motivations.
September 26, 2023
As an ex Headmaster and someone involved with leadership in business I also look back at the influences that determine success in life . Schools achieve good results if the staff are well qualified and are good inspirational leaders ; the same is true in business . Learners react to inspiration of different sorts but when combined with a personality , the results show . Sir John was obviously exposed in his school / learning years to good teachers ; his present communication skills still reflect this . Magdalen College and its long established feeder school have set a fine academic standard and social record over many many years ; more institutions should follow their examples .
September 26, 2023
Schools did use to show flexibility in what was taught at what age and in which year a pupil was placed.âI haven’t heard of any contemporary examples of this for a long time.
My inner London primary school had an excellent individual headmistress.âWe weren’t held back with the class in maths and could proceed through the exercise books at our own, faster speed.âAbout half a dozen of us were moved up a year into the class above for all subjects without finding it taxing.âI think the headmistress was later forced out by the education authority.âThe school’s quality deteriorated afterwards.
My one year of middle school had a retired maths teacher voluntarily come in and give four of us extra lessons in place of other classes.âLogarithms, etc., age twelve.âThe two who had his lessons for two years took O-level maths at twelve; both grade As.âOne also had him for Latin and won a scholarship to Lancing College the same year.
After idling at a C of E secondary school for a year or so, a bit of nudging saw them put me into the mock Maths O-level with no tuition.âA B grade had me moved up a couple of years for maths lessons so I took O-level at 14.âThat class of fifth formers were taking OA-level maths at the same time as O-level; this was normal for the top maths students at the school.âTwo years later, GCSEs arrived and no maths was learnt beyond its sedentary level despite the school having years of seeing pupils could readily obtain top grades when examined.
We expect too little academically of our twelve-year-olds and this worsens as they get older.âThe system is self-reinforcing as the teachers today were the product of it yesterday.âToo few have come from an environment which encourages more and delights in seeing it.âBut there is hope: Katharine Birbilsingh is inspiring individual teachers who feel their pupils can do more but they must typically fight the system.âGiven the per-child cost of the education system, it would seem a much better result could be achieved by less state intervention, parents given spending power through (electronic) vouchers, and more free schools.
September 26, 2023
“I sketch this as it serves to remind us that schools can show flexibility if they wish, and more maths can be included before entry to the sixth form.”
I’m not sure that follows. It was more about the student’s wishes than the school’s.
You had already jumped a year at primary school, therefore a capable and committed student. That is not the norm. You could not have done additional maths if you didn’t have a good grasp of basic maths – and many don’t have much grasp of maths beyond basic arithmetic.
Yes, schools can add more maths if they like, but it doesn’t necessarily add anything to the education of the people who are forced to study it – and as I understand it, that is what Sunak is proposing: not voluntary additional study for highly capable students, but enforced additional study for all, many of whom are less capable. Certainly many are disinterested and in many cases actively discouraged by their parents and peers who often tell them to leave school asap and “get a job in a warehouse”.
September 26, 2023
I came from a less than rich family who could not afford a Private School education for me. However, I did manage to pass the 11+ and enter our local Grammar School.
It was hard going and particularly annoying that while I spent the evening completing set homework, my mates down the road were out playing football or enjoying the local fun fair.
I persevered (with help from my parents) and ended up with a few GCE ‘O’ levels and joined the RN as an Apprentice having passing their specific entrance exam.
Without the opportunities made available to me at them time I beleive my working life would not have been so sucessful so I am again annoyed, that these opportunities to enter a higher level based upon the ability to learn are no longer freely available to the youth of today. The socialists have deemed Grammar schools a priviledge, denying others the same quality of education but this is never true. Oddly, it’s ironic that these socialists never complain about the priviledge of going to University providing you have the right qualifications.
Neither I nor my fellow classmates came from wealthy families but we all slogged on to make the most of it. Having lived and worked through the first term it was clear to me why the 11+ exam was introduced. A Grammar school education is not for everyone because it entailed working hard at it in class and at home. So much so that we all had to “keep up” with the corriculum or drop out. In the RN, failure was not an option. Fail exams and you are dismissed and back in civvy street.
As I view education now, I do not see an abundance of Grammar schools but a total failing of the educational system to actually educate the pupils.
Let’s get back to the three “R’s” to start with and allow those with the ability, to press ahead and not be held back in class because of those who cannot or will not learn.
A normal class can only be as fast as its slowest pupil and time is of the essence to those who wish to improve their lives.
September 27, 2023
and of course certain Socialists famously sent their children to private schools….
September 26, 2023
I have a (now adult) child with late diagnosed autism. The local comprehensive, at which my other children had done very well, had become pre-occupied with accommodating a great increase in student numbers as a result of many new homes being built, and the staff were being stretched so much that my child’s needs couldn’t be satisfied. So a new school was sought and a private one a few miles away was selected, the fees paid from savings (for old age!) and they excelled with every support needed being provided. This glimpse of how good education can be makes me despair as politicians seem prepared to make access to such establishments as difficult as possible to curry favour with some voters. Private education should be providing the blueprint for how state schools operate.
September 26, 2023
The whole point of any education system is to help children find their place in the world. There is no problem being born to be an engineer or a plumber, but square pegs in round holes always are âout of placeâ. Sir John Redwood was talented and thank God his teachers were aware of that. Now look at what he has achieved after all these years of doggedly plugging away and explaining complex things in simple ways in every way possible as witnessed daily on this blog.
1. Action on HS2 reported yesterday.
2. Anger at BOE incurring ÂŁ24 billion of losses that have to be covered by the Taxpayer reported today.
3. The start of ditching the Green Scam – who wants China to produce all the cars and have control over us? I want petrol and diesel and British cars!
4. The anger at any suggestion of âreversing Brexitâ – loved the Lib Dem Conference and the look on Starmers face!
5. The push for tax cuts has begun and MUST continue.
If the Tories deliver these 5 things, all Sir John Redwoodâs agenda, they will win the forthcoming election.
Hurray for elections and FPTP – politicians KNOW we can and will sack them. It concentrates their minds!
Never give up people power.
My own agenda includes:
1. We need to withdraw from the UN and their outrageous migrants-policy-for-One-World-Government.
2. Ditch the Commonwealth.
3. Punish Canada for lauding Nazis as heros! Trudeau and Zelensky met the man privately and knew what he was!
4. End this criminal, evil war in Ukraine, the USA must never be allowed to use the manpower of other nations as cannon fodder. Etc ed
September 26, 2023
Scrapping A Levels wasnât in the Conservative manifesto at the last election. Sunak has no personal mandate as he wasnât leader at that election and assumed the position of PM with no national vote and having even lost a vote amongst party members. So, he has no mandate at all for his proposed changes. I suggest he sticks to implementing policies that actually were in the manifesto (rather than abandoning them as he has done so far).
September 26, 2023
My school was good. I took a couple of o-levels early. I was interested in geology but the school didnât offer it so I learnt the material myself the school managed the exam for me and I got a B grade. I also self taught commerce o level during my a level economics and got a B. If you also include a cheeky GCSE I sat in on and got a grade 1 this brought my total to 14 o levels.
September 26, 2023
Comprehensive schools are founded on the principle that if children are taught together they will learn at the same rate overcoming disadvantage however defined. The Tories purport to believe this which is why they have removed selection on the basis of ability from more schools than labour and banned the creation of new schools
from selecting on the the basis of general intelligence but not on the basis of other attributes which are unrelated to intelligence. However, Tory politicians prefer to send their children to private schools which do not admit hoi poloi except on a token basis; these schools are far more academic than the comprehensive schools so the universities tend to allow for this when selecting students on the basis of merit, something which used to present itself automatically in the old days through the level of attainment in exams when the grammar schools could achieve results equal to the best boarding schools.
It is time to ditch the mistaken belief in being able to achieve equality of outcome because this has done so much harm to the life chances of so many people who emerge from university barely capable of stringing a coherent sentence together as a result of a scholastic system designed to level down because levelling up is impossible as
unfortunately, the Bell Curve represents reality.
September 27, 2023
You don’t mention the subject ability ‘sets’ that organises the students into identified groups.
September 27, 2023
Yes, it makes you wonder why some concerned parents battle to get their offspring into one comp rather than another, doesn’t it? Perhaps some comps have difficulty filling academic streams and the teachers to front them?
The advantage of grammar schools is that they were located to achieve catchments that ensured full rolls.
September 26, 2023
I taught my first kid to read ( could read the Times fluently at age 3, without understanding though ).The Primary school wasnt pleased because I hadnt taught any Maths. I hate maths.
This mucked the schools curriculam (?) up because all subjects had to proceed together.
A lot of my parents generation who left school at 14 were at least taught to read fluently enabling those who wanted to keep reading and broadening their minds to do so.
September 26, 2023
The head Nun of my school was horrified when I said I didn’t care if I became a cleaner.
I never could reconcile this with her chosen path.
September 26, 2023
Here in Wokingham the first school my Son started at, on a parents evening the head got up and said âyou may as parents wonder why, reading, writing and arithmetic is not high on the schools agenda. That is your job as parents, our prority at this school is to teach children to get on with one and other…..â
September 27, 2023
Bizarre. How long did the Head survive in the job?
September 26, 2023
Dear Sir John,
My school experience was uncannily similar to yours, if somewhat less glittering. I can still recall disappointment that the first year teaching at Cambridge seemed so much less stimulating and exciting than my last at school. Sadly, my old school, like most other direct grants, was forced to choose between becoming state comprehensive or fully fee-paying. Wisely, it chose independence and after some difficult periods is now thriving . But it costs ÂŁ24,000 a year plus extras, though there are burseries available.
Do you know if it is still possible to enjoy the quality of education we enjoyed free if one’s parents do not have that kind of money? If VAT is added to fees and donations are taxed, academic merit will be stifled, even fewer will enjoy this privilege and our administrative/political elite will be drawn from a still narrower pool.
Incidentally, if these measures are taken, would they not apply equally to many universities that are currently selective fee-charging education bodies with charitable status? And if not, would fee-charging schools not somehow morph into junior universities?
September 26, 2023
Recalling my schooling, I was uninspiring, but knew how to add up and make maths work. One kid I grew up with though, I would suggest was exceptional, he got the A Levels, skipped the Uni bit, got his Articles as a qualified Charted Accountant before he was 21. Then went onto achieve among many things being a Vice President at one of the largest US Banks before he was 30.
It was the power of maths that did it. Some of the PPE crowd believe that not transitioning through academia is an indication of lack of intelligence. What is missed is being ‘Bright’ is different to being a indoctrinated clone. I would place being bright way beyond and academic qualification. As a great number of those in the Parliament have proven â ‘they just ain’t too bright’ and pulling people down to their level is holding the Country back.
Oh the Guy above, he eventually got his degree from Harvard just to test himself. It wasn’t needed for anything.
September 26, 2023
No migrants ‘detected’ crossing the channel ‘in small boats’ in the last seven days! How strange.
September 27, 2023
Sea conditions, wind in the channel – we deserve to be told !
September 26, 2023
From the Telegraph today
âLabour plans to add VAT to private school fees in first year in powerâ
Over crowding the State Sector is the way to pull everyone down to Socialist Group Think level.
It isn’t about the tax, the VAT, its about ensuring that pupils are denied the right to learn, free thinkers have to be banned from Society.
September 26, 2023
Sir John Redwood’s experience shows the importance of having good academic schools (such as his evidently was) for the most able. We should have kept direct grant schools, we should preserve independent schools (though their fees have become so ridiculously high even before Starmer gets going on outrageously taxing them- it is time for many to concentrate on good education and dispense with their expensive fripperies) and most of all grammar schools should be reinstated and be available to every academically able child. In our Comprehensive Schools system too many children with natural talent, particularly children living in poor neighbourhoods with poor schools, fail in the academic system and in life because their schools never impose the academic discipline to force them to study properly and at length and so improve at what they find difficult to persevere with.
At the other end we are wasting taxpayers’ money and young people’s time in coercing those of mediocre ability to study ‘A’ levels and go to University (and in the process dumbing down academic standards to enable them to supposedly get acceptable grades) instead of encouraging them to get into or train for work.
September 26, 2023
Sir Alok Sharma MP has announced he will not stand at the next general election
Fantastic news unless he’s been offered a peerage
September 26, 2023
Sir John’s account illustrates the meaning off the word education, which comes from the Latin educo, to lead out with all that implies.
September 26, 2023
The Direct Grant system was very good at enabling gifted children from poor households to get a good education. Shirley Williams killed it and she has never received the brickbats that she deserved.
September 27, 2023
Agreed. I remember the enthusiasm of the Science Masters at my school with gratitude.