The issues over the vote on Gaza

At the heart of the row in the Commons over the Gaza vote was a bitter feud between the SNP and Labour.

For many years the Standing Orders have been followed which state that on an Opposition Day the Opposition party that is given that day can table  a motion for debate and require a vote on it. This was done to prevent the government tabling an amendment, voting through the amendment and thereby preventing a vote on the Opposition party motion. It is an exception  to normal procedure on an amendment where we vote on it first then vote on the motion as amended or unamended depending on the outcome of the amendment vote.

Labour gets many more Opposition days than the SNP as allocation depends on number of MPs in the party. They chose not to use recent days to debate and vote a Labour motion on Gaza. The SNP motion went too far in criticising Israel  for the Labour leadership. They were worried about Labour MPs voting for the SNP motion, and concerned Front benchers would resign to do so.

Seeing the SNP Motion the government as it is entitled to do tabled its policy as an amendment to the SNP motion expecting Parliament to first vote on the SNP motion followed by a vote on the government amendment when the SNP motion was defeated. Labour also tabled an amendment.

The Speaker wanted all 3 positions to be heard but his decision to allow priority to voting the Labour amendment meant the SNP motion would not be voted if the Labour amendment passed. The government then said they would withdraw their amendment expecting the  Speaker  to restore Standing Orders by requiring  a prior vote on the SNP motion followed by a vote on the Labour amendment. Instead the Speaker determined to continue with priority for the Labour amendment. It also meant in the debate the Shadow Foreign Secretary took priority in responding to the SNP over the government.

Conservative backbenchers used up the remaining time so the Labour amendment had not been put to the vote by 7 pm when following the resolution of the House proceedings should have ended. Instead the chair put the Labour amendment after 7. There were howls  of protest against putting it and cries of No against the amendment. The chair declared the amendment passed  unanimously.

This was a bad day for Parliament. Meanwhile the Israeli Parliament voted against a two state solution for Gaza and Palestine. That was a vote that matters. It should  remind UK MPs that what matters  in Gaza is the views of Hamas and Israel.


  1. Lifelogic
    February 23, 2024

    Indeed both explanations for the speekers actions (giving way to antisemitic mobs or to Labour were unacceptable.

    The SNP complain about being treated with complete contempt. Then again most of the SNP’s actions and policies, since they gained power in Scotland, rather invite total contempt.

    1. Peter Wood
      February 23, 2024

      Sorry, off topic, but LL might like to comment.
      Treasury is going to sell gilts direct to the public next week, see
      So we have Treasury and BoE selling gilts to the market, AT THE SAME TIME.
      Hard to make this stuff up really. Interesting times…

      1. Lifelogic
        February 23, 2024

        Well we have a Government with anti-growth policies (high taxes, vast waste, over regulation, expensive intermittent energy, rigged markets in education, healthcare, housing, EV cars, heat pumps, net zero lunacy, road blocking…) with the prospect in a few months of even worse Starmer and Labour. Why would people want to buy bonds in sterling that pay rather little in interest?

    2. lifelogic
      February 23, 2024

      Another idiotic court decision on Shamima Begum. The Home Sec. should restore her citizenship now. She is British, was a child and is our problem. Can she not get on a boat to Dover?

      1. lifelogic
        February 23, 2024

        The blame mainly lies with the Home Sec. but also with the courts.

        I never thought much of current Speaker, but talk of Angela Eagle or Chris Bryant makes me warm slightly to Hoyle despite his huge error.

        1. Hope
          February 23, 2024

          No, she should never set foot in this country. We have too many extremists for our security services to monitor as it is. Treason, deportation and being exiled should be automatic for traitors to our country.

          You need to visit some areas in our country where people are brought up in cultures alien to our way of life and taught not even to speak English! JR and chums bury their heads. We need action to protect our nation, culture and way of life.

          JRs party closed detention centres for illegal criminals not knowing who they are and put them up in four star hotels! May allowed the Manchester bomber to come and go from France at Will. What sanction was imposed on May? Rochdale and the abuse of young white girls being abused, JRs party have done….. nothing, so it spread across the country. Why is there no Labour MP candidate for Rochdale?

          Why has JRs party recently embedded EU law on equality into domestic law instead of scrapping the equality act brought in by Blaire and Harman! It is nothing of the sort, it is legislation to silence people. MPs only think white people can commit racism offences!

          1. APL
            February 23, 2024

            “We have too many extremists for our security services to monitor as it is. ”

            Speaker Hoyle has just added ‘White fundamentalists’ to the list.

            As to Shamima Begum, there was a time when I was implacably against her returning to the UK. She went abroad to assist ISIS (IS) against the Syrian regime.

            But a few years later the British Home secretary was encouraging British citizens to travel abroad and fight and kill Russians in a dispute which the UK should have kept its nose out of.

            So to be honest, I’m torn.

            Then as Lifelogic says, Begum can’t be too bright, or she would have jumped aboard the channel ferry and been escorted into the UK by the RNLI or the Royal Navy.

            Maybe she’s counting on the compensation, that we’ll inevitably have to pay her.

      2. Mickey Taking
        February 23, 2024

        an unstable boat?

      3. Berkshire Alan
        February 23, 2024

        You really want someone like that back here ?
        Will cost us £ Millions to keep her under surveillance, no remorse whatsoever.

        1. rose
          February 25, 2024

          A thousand others would come in on her tail. Hers is the test case. Besides, I don’t buy the assertion she is a British subject. Not only did she steal her sister’s passport, but her uncle told us on TV that she had been brought here from Bangladesh as a little girl and should therefore be allowed to stay. He then disappeared from view and the sharp suits took over.

      4. Cheshire Girl
        February 24, 2024

        She was not a child. I was born in 1939. I left school at 15. It was the normal school leaving time then. I went into full time employment. No way was I considered to be a child, but a ‘young lady’.

        We should amend the definition of a ‘child’.

      5. Colin
        February 24, 2024

        Indeed, it just goes to show that western governments’ talk about “the rule of law” is nothing but cant.

        Shamima Begum has been convicted of no crime, and is – supposedly – entitled to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. When she travelled to Syria in 2015 she was a child. Her journey was facilitated by a trafficker operating with the knowledge of the Canadian intelligence service, part of Five Eyes along with the UK. Within 10 days of her arrival she was “married” to an ISIS fighter. So she is a victim of child sex trafficking, with the connivance of western governments.

        She is a British citizen by birth. The UK claims it is lawful to deprive her of her nationality because she is alleged to pose a threat to national security (despite not having been convicted of any crime) and because she is entitled to Bangladeshi nationality. The government of Bangladesh have publicly stated that she is not a Bangladeshi citizen, would not be admitted to Bangladesh and if she entered Bangladesh would be subject to the death penalty (one hopes that Bangladesh, unlike the UK, would at least give her a trial before condemning her).

        So she has been rendered stateless, in violation of both British and international law, and placed at risk of capital punishment, in breach of British law: we do not, for example, extradite people charged with murder if they would face the death penalty.

        All this because the great and mighty United Kingdom is apparently incapable of coping with the “threat” posed by one stupid girl. And to get a cheap headline.

        If she has committed a crime, let her be prosecuted. If not, leave her alone. That’s how “the rule of law” is supposed to work.

    3. Lifelogic
      February 23, 2024

      Andrew Bridgen question in the house:- “I express my condolences to the friends and family of Alexei Navalny.

      Can the Minister explain why we can have a statement on the untimely death of one foreign national but we cannot have a statement on the ongoing excess deaths of 100,000 of our own citizens, many of whom have died suddenly?”

      But answer came their none from the pathetic Minister.

      Pathetic the issue will not be buried it is world wide (but far worse in the highly vaccinated countries).

      1. APL
        February 23, 2024

        Lifelogic: ” a statement on the ongoing excess deaths of 100,000 of our own citizens”

        Good point.
        I take it you’ve heard that the ONS has now changed the methodology by which such deaths are calculated.

        I wonder why?

        1. Lifelogic
          February 24, 2024

          Indeed and totally artificial rigging it appears to be. But this is worldwide (though far less in low vaccinated countries) it will not be covered up.

          1. Hope
            February 24, 2024

            30,000 now counted as 11,000. Changed criterion to reduce the true facts, a bit like mass immigration and estimated count on who leaves!! No count in through N.Ireland. So the figures much higher and worse.

            Public sector pay rise reduced to CPI except…..MPs who get RPI!!

      2. APL
        February 24, 2024

        Then there is the other part of your post:-
        “Can the Minister explain why we can have a statement on the untimely death of one foreign national …”

        Why does the Minister have a ‘position’ on a foreign national found guilty by the courts of his own country of corruption, bailed, broke the terms of his bail, and then later died while serving his sentence.

        Why is it the business of the British government how Russia treats its own citizens, when Britain has held Julian Assange in nearly solitary confinement for nearly a decade without a trial and with so far, no charges ?

        1. Mitchel
          February 24, 2024

          Because the UK had a lot invested in Navalny.The Russians exposed his team’s financial dealings with MI6 shortly after his original arrest and such support as had-never very great despite western media hype-virtually disappeared.

  2. Mark B
    February 23, 2024

    Good morning.

    You last paragraph deals with the matter precisely. ie This has nothing to do with us.

    But one must ask the question of, why are the SNP tabling a motion about this matter ? And to that one must look at those persons who may seek to benefit from such 😉

    But it is good that MP’s can debate the borders of another country whilst ignoring those of its own. It is also good that they can happily give those persons who enter my country illegally all they could ever want, whilst ignoring those that elected them into the privileged positions. It is also good that they can allow illegals to remain in my country and commit crimes. It is also good that they can criticise a country for defending itself against a hostile terrorist group and yet are happy to fund borrowed billions to fund a war elsewhere. It is also good that they want to give asylum to people who are not fleeing war but ignore those who are. It is also good that we can expend time on an issue even those in the region do not want anything to do with the Palestinians.

    It is good because more and more people are waking up to the fact that despite the mealy mouthed words, those in Parliament really do not work for us !

    1. BOF
      February 23, 2024

      Mark B
      Thank you. You have said it for many of us.

      1. Berkshire Alan
        February 23, 2024


      2. Hope
        February 23, 2024

        I think you forgot that the politicians have brought the Middle East problems to the UK by mass immigration. Cameron destabilised Libya for regime change making it a failed state causing mass immigration here. The people do not accept our culture and way of life they come for economic reasons bringing their rigid culture with them not accepting the qualities of our way of life brought to us by Christianity- laws, culture and the way we behave. Uni party through Equality rot has ennobled fanatics to flourish without recourse ie racist slogans on Parliament.

        Hoyle should go. He has now given two versions for his partisan actions. Which one misled the house? For that he should be sacked. I think the latter excuse was to gain sympathy. He failed to think through that the excuse would demonstrate caving in to Islamic extremism. No one caved to IRA threats!

        Labour could have used any of their opposition days instead of hijacking SNP’s day. Labour did this with Brexit. It was not a mistake, it was deliberate acting against expert advice of his clerk. Hoyle must go.

      3. Mark B
        February 23, 2024

        Cheers, mate. But me saying things here or there is not enough. We need to take peaceful action.

    2. michelle
      February 23, 2024

      +++++ A million upticks.
      Well, now some of the MP’s themselves are getting a taster are they not.
      A crowd intimidating Tobias Ellwood at his home ( how many MP’s can honestly say they’ve been in fear of this from the ‘far right’) and I’ve just seen a clip where the MP Andrew Percy gives a speech to the House. He is clearly shaken by the level of hatred by the mob and the fact that they are getting away with it.
      I have taken the liberty of contacting Mr Percy to note his anger, but to also remind him he sits in a party that has helped bring this about for the sake of ‘diversity’.

    3. Everhopeful
      February 23, 2024

      You are clever.
      So well put.
      And you are right!

    4. Lifelogic
      February 23, 2024

      They clearly do not work for us. Happy housing illegal immigrants but not housing many people who have lived here and paid taxes here for many years. Happy depressing wages with 750k PA net largely low skilled immigration, net zero rip off energy lunacy and endless red tape too. Happy not delivering a real Brexit and happy with ever more taxation government wast, crony capitalism and corruption. Happy pulling down UK flags but no nothing about others displayed on public properties. Happy telling us the Covid vaccines are “unequivocally safe” and they are cutting taxes when they must know these are blatant lies. Happy fiddling the vaccine and excess death figures at the ONS too it seems. But still not publishing the honest death figures, by vaccines status, numbers and types.

    5. Original Richard
      February 23, 2024

      Mark B : “You last paragraph deals with the matter precisely. ie This has nothing to do with us.”

      Many of the Palestine protestors have no links with or even views on Gaza/the ME at all. They are simply fifth column communists who desire to cause trouble, confusion, chaos and damage to the UK as a western democracy in the hope to bring about civil strife leading to an authoritarian communist state and are using these Palestinian protests as a cover. This explains why you see silly signs at Palestine marches such as “Queers for Palestine”.

      The same is true for the XR/JSO protests over CAGW/Net Zero. You will find that many of the protestors have no knowledge at all about physics, engineering, weather or climate and are just wanting to cause disruptive action.

      1. rose
        February 25, 2024

        It started with Occupy when the police first said repeatedly: “No crime has been committed.” In our city there was trespass, rape, drug peddling, theft, mugging, and intimidation at the squatters’ camp in front of the Cathedral. Besides visible criminal damage. BLM was the next above-the-law organization, and as you say, XR and JSO. But the Revolutionary Islamists enjoy the highest status of all, ever since a police station (in our city) was surrounded in the seventies by a mob of 300 trying to get one of their number released from police custody. They succeeded. Then there is the horrifying footage from years ago of Hezbollah chasing the Met police through the streets of London and taunting them with cries of “pigs”. Eventually Hezbollah was outlawed but now we have Hamas International. And of course the rape gangs have benefited all along from immunity. People say the police are woke, but I think they are intimidated, pure and simple, and have developed a woke patter to justify themselves.

    6. Sharon
      February 23, 2024

      +1 Mark B

    7. Lynn Atkinson
      February 23, 2024

      We find that this has everything to do with us because Hamas leaders live in Berkshire and conduct the war from there, and they claim control over Britain.
      If you stop the Jews from defending themselves from yet another genocide then you MUsT accept that we will not fight either, when Hamas and its brothers-in-arms make us kneel.

      1. rose
        February 25, 2024

        Have you noticed, Lynn, that in concert with this tidal wave of propaganda and intimidation, the Obama/Cameron axis is saying “too many lives have been lost” in Gaza, just when the IDF is about to finish off the last four HAMAS battalions in Rafah and seal the exit to Egypt through which the weapons are coming; just when the Egyptians are co-operating. Yet when it comes to the Ukraine, they hector us that it is, in effect, too few lives, too few limbs, too few weapons, too little devastation, too little time (2 years) and we must all do better? The two pronouncements at exactly the same time! I conclude that in accordance with the usual Obama policy, on no account must Iran be upset by wiping out one of her 21 proxies, but it is alright to upset Russia. The response in the Red Sea against another Iranian proxy and Iran herself is so weak as to be counterproductive.

    8. Timaction
      February 23, 2024

      Exactly right. Virtue signalling about an issue that the Uni Party has absolutely no control just to score political points.
      In the mean time my Country is being invaded and new laws that could be passed or removed are left undone by our useless politicians. The non Equality Act needs to go. As do the DIE and ESG rules that are costing our Country and businesses billions whilst discriminating against white English men as they do not have protected characteristics. Who’d invest in our stock markets when the Government rips everyone off with their stealth and wealth taxes to pay for their welfare and immigration drives? Stamp duty on every purchase, capital gains liability on every sale. Corporation tax at 25% whilst our competitors laugh at our Uni Party’s rank stupidity with their net stupid policies, driving our industry to China to import the same goods back produced by Coal Power Stations. Meanwhile we leave our coal, gas, oil in the ground. By contrast Norway has a Sovereign wealth fund, whilst we have the largest taxes and State debt ever. We desperately need Reform or our Country is lost. They have and will continue to give it away to anyone who chips up here at our expense and legislate against us speaking out and refuse to take action to deport anyone. Reminds me of a states elsewhere that they constantly criticise but ape their actions.

    9. Ed M
      February 23, 2024

      I agree completely with what you say about immigration to the UK.
      However, you undermine your argument by then comparing that with Gaza (?).
      I support Zionism – but not at any price (and millions of Tories share the same view). There are mad dogs on both sides. And both need to be muzzled not just one of them – whilst focusing on the moderates regarding how a solution can be found such as in Northern Ireland (far from perfect but at least the mad dogs on both sides there have, to a certain degree, been muzzled / gone away).

      1. Ed M
        February 23, 2024

        Lastly, in case you think I’m being Utopian, I remember well my grandfather (ex British army – 30 years) who was under the radar of the Republicans in Ireland after he retired from the army – and the uncle of my first cousin who was murdered by Republicans in Northern Ireland. 99.99% of people in Ireland (north and south) back then said a solution in Ireland was impossible. How wrong they were.

  3. Wanderer
    February 23, 2024

    Your last para is the vital one, in terms of what happens in the Middle East. Though mucking around with Parliamentary procedures is important for us, since it leads to worse abuses of power.

    Just look at Poland, where the Tusk government is carrying out allegedly illegal measures against elected representatives, with the EU’s blessing. Or Germany, with the persecution of the AfD. Or the US, with a justice system used to attack political and deep-state opponents at home and abroad (on that note, what will our judiciary do with Julian Assange?).

    1. BOF
      February 23, 2024

      And also in Germany, the arrest and imprisonment of Dr Reiner Fuellmich last October, so far without charge or trial.

      1. Sharon
        February 23, 2024

        That’s because Dr Reiner Fuellmich had a dissenting opinion to lockdowns etc, I’ve no doubt!

        He put together The Grand Jury with various people from around the world speaking out critically, giving evidence!

      2. Lynn Atkinson
        February 23, 2024

        Thank God that trial not only found Fuellmich was innocent but revealed the lies presented as evidence against him. The legal tables have now turned and the accusers stand accused!

      3. Lynn Atkinson
        February 23, 2024

        There is a trail.

    2. Mitchel
      February 23, 2024

      Tusk has been a good boy!Ursula von der Leyen yesterday:

      “We are impressed by Poland’s efforts to restore the Rule of Law as the backbone of it’s society.

      Next week the EU Commission will table decisions on EU funding,freeing up to 137bn euros for Poland.”

  4. Roy Grainger
    February 23, 2024

    The key point is that Labour MPs and their families have been threatened with violence if they didn’t vote for a ceasefire and there was a mob protesting outside Parliament to ensure that – the same anti-Semitic mob that marches every weekend in London. The Conservatives are 100% responsible for allowing such threats and protests to take place and have essentially allowed mob rule to take over, so don’t pretend the issue is just between Labour and the SNP.

    1. Clough
      February 23, 2024

      If we import millions of people with links to foreign countries and their disputes, we can expect blowback. Israel vs. Gaza now, India vs. Pakistan being played out in Leicester recently, it’s fundamentally the same scenario. Norman Tebbitt’s cricket test comes to mind. The loyalties of a large number of people living in Britain are not to this country. We shouldn’t be surprised if they militate or work for one side or another in foreign conflicts, nor if they try to undermine British institutions such as Parliament. Once again, we reap what we’ve sown. Our leaders held the door open to migration, but didn’t think about the consequences – or perhaps they just didn’t want the public to.

    2. Michelle
      February 23, 2024

      I have always believed that not until the upper echelons get a taste of that, which they’ve said is good for us, would their minds be concentrated on the reality of their precious ‘diversity’ policies.

    3. Peter Wood
      February 23, 2024

      No. It’s the labour party fault for allowing them selves to become beholden to a group that does not respect democracy, nor our laws and civilisation.

    4. Berkshire Alan
      February 23, 2024

      I am afraid that this is what you tend to get when you allow too many people into our Country, who do not have the same values or ideals as the indigenous population.
      Some say change is for the good, others argue differently, one thing is certain, change too much too quickly, and you end up with eventual chaos.
      The DNA of our Country’s people has changed, should our Country ever come under real threat, many would now seek to flee, not fight to protect it !
      Indeed one could say the proof of such has now reached such a high level, that Politicians actually fought a political battle against the UK’s position, to support the EU side against our so called Brexit negotiations, even travelling to Europe to spill the beans, and passing bills in Parliament which hamstrung our own negotiating stance.
      I am afraid you eventually reap what you sow, and we are now starting to see the result of failed thinking, and failed polices for decades.

    5. Bloke
      February 23, 2024

      If the police dealt with the criminals instead of ignoring threatening and criminal acts in the UK, what Keir Starmer urged the Speaker to do would not have been needed to protect UK MPs and citizens.

      Martin Daubney on GB News in Parliament Square repeatedly urged the police to react to the lawbreakers who projected hostile images on the Elizabeth Tower, wore masks to evade recognition and threw liquid and eggs at and onto him, captured on camera. The police refused to act, walking away as if they were among 6-year olds flicking jelly for fun at a Jubilee street party.

      Police should ENFORCE the law. Without enforcement law is fantasy. Disregarding criminality to describe what happened was a ‘peaceful protest’ is fraudulent and endangers innocent lives.

      1. rose
        February 25, 2024

        Yes, the politicians keep passing new laws but the police have all the laws they need. They just won’t use them and then say “we haven’t got the powers.”

    6. Timaction
      February 23, 2024

      They imported these protestors and now reap the consequences of their rank stupidity, against the wishes of the English people and deserve severe punishment for their betrayals.

    7. Ed M
      February 23, 2024

      What about Islamists evangelising near Christmas?
      I’ve stopped and challenged these people 3 x times in London (not to evangelise or stoke up but to ask them to show some respect to the people of this country who want to celebrate and enjoy the Christmas season in peace and joy etc – although I did evangelise back when they tried to directly evangelise me).
      One of them gave me the coldest, threatening, fanatical stare you could imagine.
      But in fairness, to the others, they all said I had been fair-minded in my approach (I approached the situation with firmness but also with humour, warmth and kindness – I think). And they respected me for defending Christianity and Christian values and how Christianity has been central to why the UK is great (in the best sense of the word) for so many reasons. What these people really hate is lily-livered liberalism / WOKE (including people not willing to defend their Christian faith).
      I hope the security services are aware of these people.
      It’s dangerous for me to challenge these people (again, in the most respectful,, kind and fair-minded way possible) – but unless someone does then they will think they have a free run to do what they like and they will think that people are a pushover – which will only spur them on to turn the UK into an Islamic state.

      God protect and bless our great country

  5. DOM
    February 23, 2024

    Good morning

    There’s a cancer that’s been allowed to fester in our homeland. Aided and abetted by fearful politicians who act in direct contravention of freedom and liberty. This cancer is so powerful it warps the very nature of our Parliamentary democracy.

    With reference to the odious Labour party. Starmer threatened Hoyle, Hoyle put his career above our Parliamentary. Hoyle’s actions are nothing less than a hammer-blow to the integrity of our Parliament. Starmer, Hoyle, Gray and Labour are beyond the pale. These people could form our next government

    Labour are not being exposed for the threat they now represent to our nation, our freedoms and the integrity of the indigenous population who it seems have become the plaything of the new Marxist elite. That this has happened under a Tory government makes it even more alarming

    As an aside. The Home Office has been infiltrated and is now acting like the racially obsessed ideological wing of Labour. The Met Police is under the control of (an unsuitable person ed)The Met should be under the control of the Home Secretary

    The right to free speech and the right to offend must be enshrined in law to prevent our liberal culture from being destroyed

    Reply The Speaker denies Starmer threatened him. Your comments would be more effective if you used less extreme language.

    1. Michelle
      February 23, 2024

      Sir John could you point out where there is extreme language in DOM’ post.
      This is the problem that is enraging the little man in the street.
      Immediately some home truths are spoken to power, we are extreme.
      Meanwhile, real extremists are rampaging through our country, using whatever language and threatening behaviour they like.
      We have a Police force that dares not tackle them (we see it with Just Stop Oil too and other left wing mobs)
      and heaven help anyone who may use passionate language to vent their frustration, because it may upset those we so clearly must not upset.

      Reply I urge moderation and try not to post anything with extreme language

      1. Paula
        February 23, 2024

        Reply to reply.

        It is not extreme to say that the Conservatives will never form a government again.

        A) Labour will change the voting system so it never happens

        B) The traditional family voting habit is broken.

    2. Excalibur
      February 23, 2024

      Reply to Reply: “The Speaker denies Starmer threatened him”. In an interview, Starmer said he ‘urged’ the Speaker to allow priority to the Labour amendment. The question then arises where does threat end and urge begin ? The fact is Starmer feared a massive revolt in his party. By defying the conventions Sir Lindsay Hoyle averted that threat. It was unconscionable, his apologies notwithstanding. Penny Mordaunt’s scathing shredding of Labour was not without reason. As you rightly say, it was a bad day for parliament.

    3. Hope
      February 23, 2024

      Hoyle changed the rules of the house because of Labour representation to him. If not it would have occurred. Irrespective whether it was coercion, threat, bribe or partisanship it matters not. Hoyle broke the rules because he stated the rules were antiquated. He knew Labour had many days to raise whatever they wished but chose to hijack SNPs day to stop Labour being publicly shown to be divided over Gaza. The clerk advised Hoyle not to do so, Hoyle ignored the expert clerks advice and still changed the rules for Labour. After the back lash Hoyle sought to use a pathetic excuse about safety to gain sympathy of MPs not to be ousted.

      Hoyle must go. He is an affront to democracy and Starmer and his party needs to be questioned properly by the media to justify why Labour asked the speaker to break the rules for them.

      1. rose
        February 25, 2024

        He should resign because he ceded ground to his party and to the islamists which should not have been ceded and which cannot now be retrieved. He damaged Parliament and us in so doing and was then inconsistent in his explanations. But what would we get next? Two much worse people have been suggested.

    4. glen cullen
      February 23, 2024


  6. agricola
    February 23, 2024

    What is the point SJR in proffering an opinion if you cannot be bothered or are too fearful of publishing it, as yesterday.

    The opinion of the UK Parliament has little relevancs to problems in the UK, and is not heeded or sought by those running a war five hours away. It does not mean that the issues within the Gaza war are irrelevant to democracy. They are of the greatest importance to the only democratic country in the area. Its just that nobody will listen to a distant ragbag of talking ballast that cannot run its own country. We are also tired of it being played out on our streets. Streets that contain more than enough unattended hazard for our people without such self indulgent drama.

    The people of the UK are all too aware of parliamentary failure, they have to live with it and pay for it on a daily basis. When you fail to publish those concerns it merely emphasises that Parliament , via those gathered in it, is central to the problem.

  7. Javelin
    February 23, 2024

    John, you are deflecting from the problem of islamic jihad by focusing on Parliamentary procedure.

    This NOT about Parliament this is about a religion that is fundamentally anti democratic. I have no problem with other religions only this one. MPs have been warned again, and again and again about this. Now the problem is lapping around their ankles and the fear and appeasement has evolved into a first class constitutional problem.

    The dilemma was either Hoyle and Starmer let jihad split the Labour Party and will result in the formation of an Islamic Party which will result in Balkanisation of our towns or cities OR the trashing of Democratic procedure. Hoyle and Starmer chose the later. Hoyle apologising simply deferred the problem until tomorrow. Either way the country loses. We simply move on to a bigger problem.

    I hope MPs wake up and smell the stench as this problem will keep rising up until it drowns us all.

    1. BOF
      February 23, 2024

      Straight to the heart of the matter. Thank you.

    2. Clough
      February 23, 2024

      Well put, Javelin. Unfortunately the government is going to throw away the big majority it gained five years ago when it listened to the people of this country and what they wanted. So I fear your hope for the future will be disappointed. We will soon get a huge number of Labour MPs whose jobs will depend on them NOT understanding the vital point you make.

    3. Donna
      February 23, 2024

      Well said. THAT’s the real issue – and I expect the poor teacher from Batley who has been in hiding from a violent Muslim mob for three years now, would agree.

    4. Walt
      February 23, 2024

      Javelin, you note that which most concerned me about the Speaker’s actions yesterday : our Parliament was subverted to avoid upsetting extremists who are not of our culture but to whom our country’s leaders and regulators appear increasingly to give precedence over our own people.

    5. glen cullen
      February 23, 2024


    6. Paula
      February 23, 2024


      It’s yet another humiliation for a 14 year, 80 seat majority government outside of the EU.

      The country is falling apart before our eyes and Labour aren’t even in office yet.

      Of this subject: Publishers have been neutralised (Rushdie), satirists have been neutralised (Hebdo) and now Parliament is being neutralised.

  8. Stephen Reay
    February 23, 2024

    Parliaments polical shenanigans regarding Israel makes no difference to Israel whatsoever. They wouldn’t listen to our government just as our government wouldn’t listen to theirs, its all a political farce. This country has far greater needs , too many to list here . The time taken for this issue would have been better used on how you should serve the people of this country.

    1. Rod Evans
      February 23, 2024

      Plus 42 upticks. The old adage remove the beam from thine own eye before attempting to remove the spec from your friend’s applies here.

  9. Lynn Atkinson
    February 23, 2024

    Israel voted for life. Hamas is uncompromising in its demand that Jews, and then gentiles no longer walk the earth.
    It’s a pity the U.K. Parliament did not accept the Brexit Vote for Life and spend its time implementing it. The Brexit voters instructed the Government in that vote to stop Moslem, who state clearly on banners carried through our capital that they want us dead, from entering the country. Labour calls this ‘Islamophobia’s’ – an irrational fear of Islam and wants it made illegal.
    Now we find that Speaker Hoyle is afraid that Islamic forces will kill MPs who vote the wrong way.
    Who would have guessed!

    1. Hope
      February 23, 2024

      Although I suspect Hoyles second disingenuous excuse was to curry favour with MPs to prevent his sacking.

      How come Rochdale abuse of white girls never thoroughly debated or brought to satisfactory conclusion? This allowed further abuse of white girls around the country while MPs sit on their hands.

    2. Sharon
      February 23, 2024

      +1 Lynne

    3. glen cullen
      February 23, 2024


    4. Paula
      February 23, 2024

      Of three MPs attacked with blades 66% have been attacked by 6.5% of the population.

      Now they’re talking about MPs being given stab vests, panic alarms and bodyguards.

      What the hell is going on ?

  10. Philip P.
    February 23, 2024

    Sir John, I was delighted to see that on Wednesday Parliament debated an issue of the highest relevance and concern to all those who consider themselves friends of democracy and human values. I say this having read the proceedings on the Parliament web site. No doubt parliamentary procedural rules were infringed, but surely the main take-away is that some at least of your colleagues stood up for what matters: pleading for humanity over barbaric aggression. It must matter to us all that no state should be entitled to regard massacring thousands of civilians in order to get its way as “the new norm” internationally. The British Parliament condemned this behaviour in Srebrenica in the Bosnian war, and likewise in Kosovo. I see you have an International Development Committee which recently issued a report called “From Srebrenica to a safer tomorrow: Preventing future mass atrocities around the world”. Kudos to our Parliament, I say. The debate on Wednesday was a logical continuation of the moral stand many of your colleagues have rightly been taking.

    1. formula57
      February 23, 2024

      @ Philip P – Surely there is nil chance that any state would (as you write) … regard massacring thousands of civilians in order to get its way as “the new norm” for it is a very well-established old norm.

    2. Peter
      February 23, 2024

      ‘ It must matter to us all that no state should be entitled to regard massacring thousands of civilians in order to get its way as “the new norm” internationally.’


      However, the nation doing the massacring owns so many Western politicians that equivocation is the name of the game. Meanwhile, the rows can be used for point scoring and trying to undermine rival parties. Anything to shift the topic under the limelight.

      Regime change is never discussed in these circumstances.

    3. Reform_Now
      February 23, 2024

      Presumably you are referring to those MPs who stood up for Israel’s right to defend itself, which became necessary after the barbaric aggression displayed by Hamas on Oct 7?

      1. Philip P.
        February 23, 2024

        I condemn barbaric aggression inflicted on innocent civilians by both sides in this conflct. You are apparently more selective.

        1. mancunius
          February 24, 2024

          You seem to ignore cause and effect – it was an unprovoked, cross-border, military mass-attack of barbaric aggression against Israeli civilians that triggered a military response from the IDF.
          Moral blame attaches to whoever began the conflict with an invasion. We do not normally blame the Poles, French and Belgians for WW2. Nor do we regret occupying Germany in 1945 in order to change the regime.

    4. mancunius
      February 23, 2024

      There is a big difference between taking a stand and grandstanding. The only ‘stand’ Labour took was in trying to retain its (remarkably sizeable) ethnic vote in the forthcoming elections.
      Whatever the contentious result of a vote only of Labour MPs (which is what it was) on a foreign conflict, it is about as effective and as relevant as a vote by the Knesset on Scottish devolution.

    5. Paula
      February 23, 2024

      So. I suppose by force was justified then, Philip. That’s what Speaker Hoyle said it was.


  11. Sakara Gold
    February 23, 2024

    I note that Sir John has not added to the chorus of those demanding a vote of no confidence in the Speaker. A nice bit of realpolitic and thanks for the succinct explanation.

  12. Sea_Warrior
    February 23, 2024

    ‘Seeing the SNP Motion the government as it is entitled to do tabled its policy as an amendment to the SNP motion expecting Parliament to first vote on the SNP motion followed by a vote on the government amendment when the SNP motion was defeated. Labour also tabled an amendment.’ Very Sir Humphrey of you, Sir John. 🙂

  13. John Kirkham
    February 23, 2024

    That is the best clarification that I’ve seen of the voting farce.

    What we now need Sir John is you to suggest to the Met that they ask Starmer to get a list of the threats to his MPs so the source of those threats are spoken to, and told, not asked, to desist.

  14. Donna
    February 23, 2024

    The Speaker either:
    1. displayed political partisanship, by prioritising an amendment which the Labour Leader requested and which suited him and his Party, OR
    2. he “bowed” to Islamists and an extremist pro-Palestinian mob who are demonstrating their violent tendencies every week in London and are threatening and intimidating MPs …. as well as the Jewish community and anyone else who doesn’t subscribe to their faith/opinions

    Either way, the Speaker changed our Parliament and so-called democracy in order to appease Islamists and their supporters. He is supposed to uphold and protect Parliamentary procedures ….. not wreck them. His position is now completely untenable. He should stand down.

    After 25 years of unwanted mass immigration from countries where violence and intimidation is the modus operandi to achieve your political aims, we now have it operating in the Mother of Parliaments, apparently at the request of Keir Starmer.

    And STILL the Not-a-Conservative-Party pretends that multiculturalism is wonderful and will do nothing to stop importing hundreds of thousands of their co-religionists every year.

    THAT’s the real issue.

    1. glen cullen
      February 23, 2024


    2. Original Richard
      February 23, 2024

      Donna :


      There is no way I can vote for any of the existing Parliamentary parties who all support mass, uncontrolled and even illegal immigration and Net Zero.

    3. Berkshire Alan
      February 23, 2024

      “After 25 Years……………..”
      Exactly, many of those who supposedly came here to escape so called Oppression and Violence, are now trying to turn the UK into a place similar to what they left.!
      The General Public saw this possibility decades ago, as indeed did an MP called Enoch Powell, who was vilified for his thoughts at the time, the present politicians still do not really see it or believe it yet.

  15. David Chopping
    February 23, 2024

    John. Am I right in believing that Labour threatened the Speaker’s future? The media has inferred such but Labour are denying it.

    1. Hope
      February 23, 2024

      It matters not Labour persuaded Hoyle to break the rules to help Labour’s election ambitions. Hoyle must go he is an affront to democracy. He has also misled the HoC both his excuses cannot be true.

  16. Nigl
    February 23, 2024

    Spineless politicians allowing Jihad to insert its tentacles ever more into our society. Whatever the Speaker/Starmer may say he was bullied into protecting the latter.

    It is of course worse than that. Countries for decades have washed their hands of the situation and now it has blown up, literally, as inevitably it would when one side’s only goal is to eliminate the other, they suddenly want to get involved as if their virtue signalling is important.

    We can see where the Arabists in the FO and Cameron’s loyalties lie. Understandable to want to protect the civilians but not accusing the side using them for protection to further their terror is shameful.

    It makes me sick.

  17. Dave Andrews
    February 23, 2024

    A more useful motion would be to say that Parliament supports Israel in its actions, encourages them in their pursuit of terrorists and hopes they successfully destroy Hamas swiftly.
    I’d vote for that.

  18. Old Albion
    February 23, 2024

    The whole thing appears to have been some foot stamping and rattle throwing by people who have been given the task of running the country. It makes for a most unedifying spectacle.
    Is it any wonder this country is going to the dogs, when that is the standard of behaviour in the ‘mother of parliaments’ Political infighting is placed higher than the issues facing the country and the world. Pathetic!

  19. Elli
    February 23, 2024

    Every drop of blood, every life lost in Gaza is the direct fault of the Islamist Hamas, it deliberately started this war in the most barbaric way possible to force Israel’ severe response.
    Their leaders repeated Hamas’ promise to repeat the massacre anytime they could.
    Hamas must be destroyed and not allowed to dominate any area.
    Israel is trying to minimise civilian casualties, but will not stop until Hamas is destroyed, at whatever price.

  20. formula57
    February 23, 2024

    When you tell us Sir John that “This was a bad day for Parliament” the word “bad” is doing a great deal of work.

    1. Mickey Taking
      February 23, 2024

      Bloody Awful Democracy ? (Bad)

  21. Sea_Warrior
    February 23, 2024

    I’ll call again for responsibility for the Metropolitan Non-Policing Service to be removed from the mayor and put firmly under the Minister for London. Th capital has become a foreign city, with many non-citizens being able to vote in local and general elections. The result? Entirely predictable. Everytime I hear of another stabbing in London, I ask myself who the attacker will be voting for.

  22. Brian Tomkinson
    February 23, 2024

    The conduct of Speaker Hoyle and Deputy Speaker Winterton were unacceptable and both should resign. The role of Starmer in this gerrymandering needs further investigation and he should consider his position. If only MPs would show a fraction of their concern for matters affecting directly their own constituents instead of those over which they have no control or real influence. What it has brought into focus is the worrying degree of sectarianism that has been infiltrating our politics for too long and must be addressed.

  23. John Casey
    February 23, 2024

    I would like to thank you for your explanation of the event Mr Redwood.

  24. Rod Evans
    February 23, 2024

    Your last sentence (without the typo) is spot on Sir John.
    The arrogance or our political class whether procedurally flawed or otherwise is staggering.

  25. Linda Brown
    February 23, 2024

    Shouldn’t we be concerned with matters here and not in Gazza which is for the arabs and Israelis to sort out. Israel was attacked and that is a violation and they have the right to respond however many are killed if Hamas does not want to negotiate. The hostages must be released first before anything else happens and a two state solution is untenable. It was a total waste of time spent which should have been devoted to issues which affect the British people. It is about time the marches and gatherings were stopped as they are costing too much money especially when the police just stand by and do nothing.

  26. Mike Wilson
    February 23, 2024

    Anybody else understand any of that? Someone proposes a motion, someone suggests an amendment to the motion, there is a vote on the amendment but not on the motion?

  27. RDM
    February 23, 2024

    Yes, it is between Israel and Gaza!

    One point; Have you notice how big the Fence/Walls Egypt has built across the Border (including Rafah)?

    Surely, Northern Sinai is the best/safest option for the Gazan People?

    Returning to the 67 borders is a non-starter, as it gave/gives Hamas, Hezbollah, Fatah, Muslim Brotherhood, (and a number of other Islamists organisations) even the Iranians directly, were operating in those areas, that’s before the IDF closed them down! Far too many weapons and Missiles were found for Israel to allow it again!

    But, with the 1948 attack on Israel, by the Arabs States, the Palestine regions that were left, were lost in the fighting, and it is difficult to see how Palestine, today, exists! Within the Peace Agreement, the Second State (“Two State Solution”) highlighted Northern Sinai as the likely area, for the second State, for which the remaining Palestine’s could live!

    Isn’t the reality, on the ground today, that the Second State option would be in the Northern Sinai, and which is why Egypt is blocking the entrance, through Rafah Border, so why isn’t Egypt being talk too? They, surely must know many hundreds of Gazans will die, if they don’t get across the Border?

    Why isn’t the Foreign Office, and David Cameron, talking to Egypt, instead of preaching to Israel!

    Israel is not, cannot, stop until it has the 134 hostages back, safe!
    Until Hamas has been destroyed!
    Until it has total control of Gaza!
    Until all Gaza’s/Arabs around that area, accept the Existence of the State of Israel?

    Have I left anything out, that really is relevant?

    1. Hat man
      February 24, 2024

      So you want many thousands of residents to be expelled from their homes and live in a desert, RDM? How would you fancy having to do that, because an organisation your citizens voted for was firing rockets on another country and killing civilians? That’s what our government has been doing repeatedly to innocent people in places like Serbia, Libya and Yemen. Think about it. You wouldn’t care to have to live in a refugee tent, I’m sure, so why do you insist on imposing that on others?

      1. RDM
        February 24, 2024

        @Hat Man

        All very sentimental, but not a solution!

        Yes, I would have moved to Northern Sinai, already. 7th Oct, one days, many be two days, walk! Yes, I have been there! A “Desert”, Northern Sinai is not a desert, it’s a rich, lush green land, next to the Med, and the Delta is even better! The South (Sharm), and Middle Sinai is a Desert, a mountain range, and St Katherine chapel.

        I think this is why Egypt is blocking the Gazans, so much? Not sure!

        But anyway, I believe you will find that a lot of Gazans still support Hamas, granted, a lot don’t!

        And, even the Arabs States still don’t accept the Existence of the Israeli State, so No, the IDF are not going to stop, see vote in their Parliament!

        I my mind; Northern Sinai is the only real answer, a long term solution, where each side can’t effect each other!

        The IDF will control all of Gaza, from now on (what’s left)!

        That’s today’s reality!

        Egypt blocking the Border, the effect will be death!

        Someone has to ask, why?

        1. Hat man
          February 24, 2024

          Northern Sinai – ‘The population of the North Sinai Governorate as at 2015 was 434,781 people, comprising predominantly Bedouin tribesmen.’ (Wikipedia) I wonder what these Bedouin tribesmen do in the lush green land you refer to. Or are you referring only to the coastal strip? The fact is that ‘Northern Sinai’ is the whole northern half of the peninsula, including a lot of desert. What makes you think that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians would be housed along the coast in the desirable parts, rather than dumped in refugee camps further inland?

          1. RDM
            February 24, 2024

            More sentimental Nonsense!

            “What makes me think” ? Common Sense!

            Where else, safe, is there for them?

            The Bedouin are nomadic, and travel South, and East, through into Jordan, on their travels, I’m not saying they can be ignored, just that they have more room, to them selves, then whole of Israel!

            “Half of the Peninsula”, Rubbish! All!

            Northern Sinai extends down to the mountain Range, so that is Desert, but still has plenty of water, so is liveable!

            You can put the whole of Israel into the Northern Sinai, 3. 4 times, see Wiki! If not more!

            2.5 Million Gaza’s need somewhere to live free, safe, and is a long term solution!

            They would have no problems fitting into the Coastal Strip!

            They would be “Housed” where ever UN/Egyptian/Jordan governments would organise, but the land is open and free! So, would be open for them to build on, even if they started with just a tent! It’s for Egypt/Jordan/UN to allow!

            Although, I might not be that accurate, but you are making excuses!

            The Gazan People have to go some where, if they try to stay in Gaza, they will either die, or be living in a tent and waiting for UN supplies, every day. Whatever they build will be destroyed!

            Israel want them out of Missile range, out of Gaza! They are not prepare to accept it any more!

            PS: Palestine does not, has not, existed, not since 1948! The region of the 67 borders no longer exist, thanks to Iran/Hamas, and we know it involves Egypt/Jordan/Turkey support!

            The two States must be away from each other, or it will not work! Hence, Northern Sinai being the only real option!

          2. rose
            February 25, 2024

            We already have a Palestinian state with a Palestinian population and a Palestinian Queen, carved out of 3/4 of the original Palestine named by and mandated to the British after the Great War. The best bit too. What was left after partition was indeed mostly desert by comparison.

            I realize this Palestinian state doesn’t want the Palestinians any more than Egypt does, for very good historical reasons.

  28. Mark J
    February 23, 2024

    As per usual, This Government only seems to become somewhat concerned about something when it becomes an issue.

    Everyone with an ounce of common sense knew full well the direction of travel with the weekly protest marches in Central London.

    Yet this Government has chosen to ignore the increasing threats, intimidation, violence, and downright nastiness in the name of ‘free speech’.

    With ‘free speech’ comes responsibility, for which a increasing number seem to be forgetting. ‘Free Speech’ is also becoming increasingly one sided for some.

    Again, if this Government had one ounce of backbone, they would be standing up to the ‘Mob Rule’ we are currently seeing.

    The Conservative party then continue to scratch their heads and wonder why they have dire poll ratings….

    1. glen cullen
      February 23, 2024

      +1 its been coming for years

  29. glen cullen
    February 23, 2024

    Parliament is a decade behind the times, the political, economic & social takeover effects all our institutions and has only just been realised by MPs because it now effects them – its been in our backyard for decades throughout the country ….and the people have been ignored, even today MPs are afraid to stop immigration, its time to remove religion from parliament and make our democracy a secular state

  30. Yossarion
    February 23, 2024

    These People need a lesson in Democracy or We will all be on the streets.
    From the Severn to the Thames england needs to be free from them!.

  31. Fishknife
    February 23, 2024

    Dear Sir John,
    Thank you for your concise explanation of Parliamentary proceedure.

  32. Ian Jacobs
    February 23, 2024

    My MP representative.

    I urge you to read the comments above.

    Your post is ( maybe ) technically correct- but you are completely wrong and have been dishonest in your post by not even having mentioned that the Conservative MP’s left the chamber before the vote . So the Cons are just as
    guilty for this mess whereas you are placing the blame on Labour and the SNP.

    You also ignore the fact that the Speaker has very wide ranging power in the way the HoC is run – and he was well within his power and authority to conduct this business the way he did – and chose to do.

    Motions of no confidence are just huffing and puffing – and a complete waste of more Parliamentary time.

    The tragedy is that the UK Parliament failed to pass a motion ( constipated ! ) to give a very clear message as to what they agreed to think and state publicly about the Palestinian Tragedy.

    The rest is Parliamentary tittle tattle and nonsense- of which there has been far too much over the last few years.

    Most of the time the UK Government has had its eye(s) off the ball, has been bogged down by minutiae and avoided ( or failed to see ) the big picture. It is a disgrace and an embarrassment

    Reply I and many other Conservative MPs were in the chamber after 7 at the end of the vote on the motion to sit in private and we shouted No to the putting of the Labour amendment

    1. Hope
      February 23, 2024

      What does it say about sitting in private for an alleged open transparent democracy? Starmer needs to be grilled and dumped.

  33. Magelec
    February 23, 2024

    Why aren’t our MPs better protected? Our leaders are pretending that it’s not really necessary as we are generally a law abiding country. Unfortunately there are a growing number of factions in our great country who do not intend to be law abiding. What happened in the HoC was not about following the rules but appeasement. And it is happening every day in the UK in the name of keeping the peace. Our weak politicians are giving way to the Islamisation of our country. Eventually there will be a majority of Moslems and the indigenous population will consequently suffer. I hope our grandchildren can see this coming and get out before it’s too late.

    1. rose
      February 25, 2024

      There are a lot of other people who need protection in this context: councillors, teachers, doctors and nurses, transport workers, police themselves, schoolchildren, students, and of course Jews…at the moment. More may have to be added to the list, priests for example, as in France.

  34. Bert+Young
    February 23, 2024

    The question really is – did Hoyle give preference to Labour following the private meeting with Starmer ?. If this is true then Hoyle must be dismissed .

  35. Kenneth
    February 23, 2024

    Our politicians need to concentrate on what is happening in our own country

    1. Mickey Taking
      February 23, 2024

      and most of ‘what is happening’ is their own doing!

    2. glen cullen
      February 23, 2024

      Spot On

  36. Ian B
    February 23, 2024

    To most of us these semantics are only to be expected. Our recent Parliaments have trashed the structures to create what has now become a pretend Democracy.
    Our Parliament our legislators refuse even that basic job, instead prefer to defer what they deem higher powers elsewhere. We even have Rishi pushing through more of undemocratic laws that have no democratic oversite, on to our statute – a Foreign Court administering how the UK people get to act in the UK ‘EU Equality Rules’. If the UK parliament can’t create, amend or repeal all laws that affect those living in the UK they should not be there and such laws should be null and void.
    Then to protect themselves our parliament allows for a 5-year term instead of the 4-year term.
    Add to that the Undemocratic House of Lords.
    The holding back and denial of Brexit, to deny the UK being able to get back to some sort of Democracy.
    In the last generation starting with Blair/Brown, then retained on the same socialist path with 14 years of the Tory Party all the UK’s working political structures have been dismantled, trashed, ignored. The list is endless, but we have not seen anything that allows us to move forward.
    So are the actions taken by Hoyle so miss-placed, when reflecting on everything else that has been trashed – think the full-on labour supporting anti Brexit Bercow as speaker! He stood on a conservative ticket!

    1. Ian B
      February 23, 2024

      The other hypocritical noise coming from Westminster, MPs want personal protection from demonstrators. Yet the rest of us have to endure endless disruption watch malicious damage go rewarded from those same protestors. Which ever way you shake it out it is the ordinary person in the street those that MPs are paid to protect that take the brunt of these abuses.
      There is the need for free speech and the right to demonstrate – but should it always be at someone else’s expense?
      Do we have Laws for the few against the majority? Do we have a legislator that keeps demonstrating double standards, they want protection but refuse to protect the UK Citizen at home from Foreign Courts enforcing Laws and rules that do not pass the test of legitimacy in a democracy – no other ‘free’ democratic society has Governments that acts like that

  37. Sharon
    February 23, 2024

    As Liz Truss said yesterday in America to Nigel Farage. The west has had its institutions infiltrated by the socialist left and they are now running the show. She’s right.

    But what the socialist left love, is minority groups seen as victims. This has played neatly into the hands of the Islamists. First victim-hood , then a gradual progression to what we see today. Intimidation of parliament!

    This situation now needs to be declared a national emergency and action taken to reclaim our country back from the socialist left and the extremists. I’m not holding my breathe!

    1. Donna
      February 23, 2024


  38. acorn
    February 23, 2024

    Brazil has put the Bermuda triangle of international diplomacy – reform of the United Nations and other multilateral bodies – at the heart of its presidency of the G20, arguing that the war in Gaza and shifts in the economic power balance finally make change possible. Brazil’s top diplomat, Mauro Vieira, said the explosion of global conflicts showed that international institutions such as the UN suffered from paralysis. UN reform has been discussed for more than 30 years and although most states agree that the current structure – assembled in the wake of the second world war – is archaic, there is no consensus on a replacement, and reluctance among the five countries with permanent seats – China, France, the US, the UK and Russia – on the UN security council to see their power diluted. (Extracts from Patrick Wintour; Guardian.)

    IMO. Time to remove the five permanent members and their power of veto in the Security Council. (Chapter V of the UN Charter).

    1. Martin in Bristol
      February 23, 2024

      The UN should be abolished.

      1. rose
        February 25, 2024

        The UN is like a Neighbourhood Forum in which there are half a dozen law abiding, tax paying householders and two dozen gangsters, all with an equal vote and say.

    2. Original Richard
      February 23, 2024

      acorn : “IMO. Time to remove the five permanent members and their power of veto in the Security Council. (Chapter V of the UN Charter).”

      Forcing a nuclear power into a corner sounds to me like a good way to ensure the start of a nuclear war.

    3. formual57
      February 23, 2024

      @ acorn – recall the lack of great powers’ vetoes was material in the demise of the forerunner institution the League of Nations.

    4. glen cullen
      February 24, 2024

      The UN is no longer a collective voice of nations for peace, its now a world government with hundreds of massive departments ….agree it should be disbanded

  39. graham1946
    February 23, 2024

    It seems to me That the Speaker has generally been good and non biased. Now some MP’s want to get him out. To lose such a man because of some arcane rule seems ridiculous – he made a mistake and apologised, although what impact his ‘error’ made to the people of this country is obscure, to say the least. This smacks of someone behind the scenes (unelected) wanting to control parliament. If a new Speaker is elected it could easily be another Bercow, the worst Speaker in history, probably, and biased beyond measure. That parliament spent so much time and effort arguing about such a thing shows what low quality of MP’s we have and our parliament is a laughing stock worldwide because of such idiocy. Spend some time on getting this country right, not blabbering about things that no-one outside the Westminster bubble will take any notice of. Truly these low grade MP’s have such a high opinion of themselves and should reflect more on just how useless parliament is these days.

  40. Keith from Leerds
    February 23, 2024

    In my opinion, it made our Parliament look like an absolute shambles. The weakness of authority in the UK is a serious problem. It seems we have a weak speaker who can be bullied, both by Starmer and the Anti Israel protesters. We have a weak police force who lamely says there is no law against projecting an anti-semitic slogan onto Big Ben and chanting anti-Semitic slogans outside Parliament. We have a weak Judiciary that treats Stop Oil protestors as if they are heroes., and lets them off even when found guilty.
    We are reaping what we have sown over the last 50 years.

  41. ChrisS
    February 23, 2024

    What a mess! And what a bad image of the UK Parliament this portrays to the world at large. I dont think any MPs should hsve walked out.

  42. Derek
    February 23, 2024

    Perhaps if MPs concentrated on the failings in this country instead of vainly attempting to change the policies of a foreign Government, they’d actually get something done for us.
    It seems they’ve too much time on their hands for too much pay and therefore, are unfit for the purpose they were elected. But will we see any change after the next General Election? Absolutely! ……… No chance.

  43. ChrisS
    February 23, 2024

    I listened to the debate and the unruly scenes around 7pm. The Deputy Speaker was wrong in not calling for a division when there were clear calls of No! in the chamber.

    But the problem is much worse than this :
    We have reached a stage where a major Political Party is so scared of Muslim voters that it has been very careful in its opinions on Gaze recently and certainly not following its principles. Starmer had no right to bully the excellent Speaker into breaking with long established procedure and it is good to see that he has been referred to the Standards committee. However how far that will go is in doubt given the presence of Chris Bryant, who wants the Speakers job for himself, and Harriet Harman, both of whom are Labour members.

    1. Original Richard
      February 23, 2024

      ChrisS : “We have reached a stage where a major Political Party is so scared of Muslim voters that it has been very careful in its opinions on Gaze recently and certainly not following its principles.”

      It surely cannot be far away when the labour Party changes its name? It would certainly happen if there were to be a postal vote on the change.

  44. Lynn Atkinson
    February 23, 2024

    Did that list include Korea, Vietnam, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya or Syria?
    Just wondering….

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      February 23, 2024

      Just that 5,702,000 were left dead. We will not even think about the injured and displaced.

      And now of course, using a proxy and their own troops as ‘mercenaries’, the disaster and humiliation for the west in Ukraine. 500,000 Ukrainians killed, and Russia, fighting its own ethnic people with very heavy heart, busting a gut to minimise damage.
      To Putin this is a civil war against an area taken over by a foreign culture, Traditional German politics and men prepared to sell their own granny for cash. 😢

  45. Ukretired123
    February 23, 2024

    My comment yesterday disappeared instantly and when I tried again a message saying duplicate comment I gave up.
    I basically commented that the Conservatives used to have a USP encouraging voters to have a stake in various projects encouraging responsibility and accountability based on that days topic.
    I then said that only when faced with the direct wrath of voters do MPs respond after events like Brexit, Post Office scandal etc.
    This week has exposed the myth that we have MPs reflecting voters wishes and are weak of spine.
    Let’s see if my comment gets here.

  46. ChrisS
    February 23, 2024

    It is a sad fact that we now have a political party that is so in hock to its Muslim supporters and led by a man who is unable to decide on a single policy and follow it. This is very worrying, considering that there is a real chace he could be PM in less than a year.

    Those who warned us over allowing in so many people from an alien culture and religion have been proved right.
    The Home Secretary needs to call in the Commissioner of the Met and demand that the scenes we are seeing on the streets of London are stopped forthwith. Laws are clearly being broken and the Police are ignoring what is going on.

    The final ignominy was the projection we saw onto the Elizabeth Tower. If the Met do not regard that as illegal, the Home Secretary should introduce a short bill within days to make it so, unequivocally.

  47. ChrisS
    February 23, 2024

    I see that the Appeal Court has unanimously decided against allowing the Begum woman to come back into our country. This is just about the first legal judgement lately that seems to have been decided in the right way.
    If only other members of the Judiciary would uphold the interests of our society more often, there would not be so much cynicism about in the Country.

  48. Richard1
    February 23, 2024

    The extraordinary and very concerning thing about this story is the explanation for it seems to be that the speaker & presumably Starmer feared for the safety of Labour MPs if they voted against a motion sympathetic to the Hamas terrorists.

    This is incredible revelation. It means our Parliament is being intimidated into a course of action by the threat of extremist violence. Would not someone threatening an MP be guilty of contempt of Parliament? I suggest some very tough measures by the govt against any person or group attempting to subvert our democracy in this way.

    This could be another good wedge issue for the election in which 80% of the country will be in favour of action to protect democracy.

  49. glen cullen
    February 23, 2024

    Why is the HoCs debating the ‘’unauthorised entry to football matches bill’’ and why have we had the bill since 1991 ….whats it got to do with government, football clubs are private companies, how they secure their premises is up to them ….TOO MUCH GOVERNMENT
    I’d like the next election manifesto to clearly state what ‘government is for, and its role in our society’

  50. Original Richard
    February 23, 2024

    The “bad day for Parliament” is yet another example of how our politicians and elites are always far more interested in virtue signalling, grandstanding and getting involved wherever possible in world rather than in local, UK, affairs.

    We have a new Foreign Secretary desperate to get involved with everything, everywhere he can. It seems we have to be involved with every world conflict.

  51. The Prangwizard
    February 23, 2024

    Nice piece of the academic. No mention of the threat outside from islamists and muslims who delight in fooling those inside.

    There are too many in public life who dare not speak out strongly and with courage to defend and protect our culture and beliefs. Much easier to appease our enemies, who know there are only the weak and naive to deal with.

  52. APL
    February 23, 2024

    The Speaker, Lindsay Hoyle has brought the house into disrepute. But one would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.

    For forty years the political class has been inviting more and more foreigners to live in this country, in the process dramatically transforming the quality and conduct of ‘British’ life.

    Now the numpties in the numtorium, we call Parliament have noticed through their fogged up intellect, that if you change the population of a country, the things that population desires, changes too.

    Welcome to the new Britain you wanted, and this is the new ‘democracy’ you have all brought about. Congratulations!

    According to Speaker Hoyle, ” his mistake had been in pursuit of looking after MPs, after being told of “absolutely frightening” threats against them if the Labour position was not debated”.

    If the Labour position was not debated? So the threats were coming from Labour supporters ? ‘Cos, I didn’t give two figs about either the Labour or Tory motion. I thought there was an SNP motion too? Stitch up anyone ?

    Speaker Hoyle also mentioned ‘white fundamentalists’, does he mean the Labour front bench, where the absolutely frightening threats presumably originated?

    Speaker Hoyle is a stuffed shirt, and a coward. And the MPs that ran away during COVID, are still as equally cowardly, despite having a few years to grow a spine, and also working in the most heavily fortified building in London.

    1. Mickey Taking
      February 24, 2024

      ‘Hoyle has brought the house into disrepute’ – — ha ha – as if it wasn’t before?

      1. APL
        February 24, 2024

        Mickey Taking: “ha ha – as if it wasn’t before?”

        Judges award that comment 10/10

  53. ChrisS
    February 23, 2024

    We seem to have come a long way in just a few years, from being accused of being racist and of the far right for daring to criticise Islamic demonstrators and activists, to that being the mainstream view of white, Anglo-Saxon citizens today.

    Similarly, journalists at the BBC and elsewhere still try to pin a “Populist” or “Far Right” label on political parties openly being voted into office by the electorate across Europe. It is even looking likely that Marine LePenn could win the next presidential election in France, despite the two-stage electoral system being very much against that eventuality. This is all happening because elected politicians have buried their collective heads in the sand and ignored what their policies have done to significantly damage the society in which their electorate has to live.

    Despite what the Conservative Government has done here, our electorate has become so fed up with the party that was supposed to represent their views, that in desperation they are prepared to turn to Labour to “give the other lot a chance.” This will, of course, only make things even worse.

    If Labour wins the election, the Conservative party will have to turn to a leader and shadow cabinet that right-of-centre voters will feel they can rely on. That will be difficult. It would have been far easier to have made that change at least a year ago and I suspect that Starmer would now be in big trouble and heading for an electoral defeat.
    From here I fear that the Reform Party is going to be a real threat and could keep Labour in power for a decade.

  54. John Kirkham
    February 24, 2024

    My comment is awaiting moderation, for a day. It’s hardly contentious, so why the delay?

    1. APL
      February 24, 2024

      John Kirkham: “It’s hardly contentious, …”

      No comment, no matter how anodyne, cannot, today be construed in a pejorative light.

  55. Jude
    February 24, 2024

    Thank you for explaining so succinctly the process & how the speaker changed this to favour Labour.

Comments are closed.