The Department for Transport has provided the following answer to your written parliamentary question (15523):
Question:
To ask the Secretary of State for Transport, what recent estimate he has made of the level of funding his Department will provide to the rail industry in the 2023-24 financial year. (15523)
Tabled on: 26 February 2024
Answer:
Huw Merriman:
The Central Government Supply Estimates 2023-24, presented to the House of Commons and published on 27 February 2024 (see link below), details the funding provided to the Department for Transport across a large number of different areas. The value associated with all rail and rail related lines is £33.029 billion, across both Departmental Expenditure Limit and Annually Managed Expenditure. More than half of the total value is associated with Network Rail, with other areas including but not limited to High Speed 2, Crossrail and support for passenger rail services. The numbers in the Central Government Supply Estimates take account of technical accounting adjustments and are not necessarily reflective of cash that will be required.
April 22, 2024
In a landmark 9-0 ruling last Wednesday (MULDROW v. CITY OF ST. LOUIS, MISSOURI, ET AL.) that you will never hear about in the Main Stream Media. St. Louis police sergeant can sue over a job transfer she claims was discriminatory for being a woman. However the ruling applied to white men.
The Supreme Court asserted that everyone is equal in the eyes of the law. The court has established a relatively ‘low standard’ for bringing discrimination cases. The victim need not suffer ‘actual harm’. An employee only must show “some harm” under the terms of their employment, AND that harm need not be “material,” “substantial” or “serious.”
So “diversity-preferred” job postings, the practice of passing over whites for promotions, discriminatory job transfers, pushing unfair diversity trainings, etc…all of these are now legally actionable.
Thousands of lawyers are now going to target HR personnel in the US who have been pushing these racist and sexist practices against stale pale men.
April 22, 2024
Although the American Civil Liberties Union (that itself filed an amicus brief supporting the plaintiff) stated that advocacy groups are wrong in trying to cast this ruling as a danger to workplace DEI trainings and initiatives, noting such a view “has no basis in law and fundamentally misunderstands how most DEI programs work”.
April 22, 2024
£ 33 billion! – because users would not or could not afford to pay the unsubsidized cost?
The ORR reports some 1.6 billion passenger journeys per annum: so if all the subsidy is attributed to passenger traffic that is c.£20 per trip. Why does the user not meet the cost, rather than the taxpayer?
April 22, 2024
No wonder our taxes are the highest ever …..because government spend is the highest ever
April 22, 2024
rail journeys are no longer inexpensive either; why on earth did they take the West Coastline off the very successful Virgin and give it to a company that has absolutely ruined rail travel? They re-awarded it recently, too; unbelievable.
Cancelled train services with no notice so you miss connections, food and drink not available in first class when it should be, air conditioning not working so your reserved seat with a table is worthless and you get crammed into one carriage packed full. Dirty toilets on board, inattentive staff.
April 22, 2024
Well if they did that passenger numbers fall hugely and they would have to compete on a fair basis with cars and coaches. But it is not just the subsidy cars are hugely over taxes trains hugely subsidised. Why?
April 22, 2024
As a bonus Mr. Merriman has supplied details of funding for all departments. So you can see how much funding they receive and whether or not it was voted or non voted.
‘Technical accounting adjustments’ are intriguing and merit further explanation though.
I note that the Tube was rammed again on Saturday. I could not get a seat on the Victoria line. Thameslink was also busy at St Pancras in the morning. Not so much on the return journey.
Doubtless posters will be along to say rail is a waste of money and should be abandoned or paved over for motor transport.
The omniscient, God-like figure of Lifelogic will state that public transport is a waste of money. He may add that buses are rarely busy. I was chatting to a neighbour on the top deck of a 71 at 11am on a weekday. It was full of passengers. I can also see how full the vehicles are as they pass me by on different days and at various times. However, Lifelogic knows the state of my local transport better than I do – even though he lives abroad.
April 22, 2024
My point is simply one of basic maths sampling theory. Passengers get the very wrong impression of bus occupancy as the full bus is observed by 60 people the empty one by none ask the driver to record it you get the right answer. This as passengers clearly by definition tend to catch the busier buses.
Four buses one has 60 on it and three are empty ask the four drivers for occupancy you get an average of 15 ask the 60 passengers to count you get an average of 60.
On average depot to depot even large double deck bus occupancy can often be as low 6 or 7. Often they take very indirect routes too, stop every few hundred yards, are large cumbersome and road blocking and need professional staff. Cars often far more efficient, more direct, quicker and far more convenient, cheaper and more flexible this often far more popular.
April 22, 2024
Lifelogic,
The obvious flaw in your argument is that it is not just the passengers who observe buses and note their occupancy.
Locals have a far better idea of occupancy rates than theorists with set ideas not based on reality.
April 23, 2024
There is no flaw in my argument. If you want to know real average occupancy over the day you need to get the drivers or someone else to sample it. Not people’s impressions.
April 22, 2024
This is nearly £1 per paasenger mile of subsidy with virtually zero tax on trains. Yet cars are taxed at about 20p per mile and far more in London with ULEZ, congestion charge plus they have rip off parking charges and other motorist muggings methods.
Note too that train journeys are often very indirect. I recently went Birmingham airport to just outside Cambridge via London as quickest (by Car 100 miles direct) by train 180 miles plus 18 for the taxis two way trip half of this empty. Yet this is thought to be efficient?
Why subsidise trains and tax cars to such a huge degree. Patently unfair competition in transport. What is the logic for this? What would the real demand be if train users paid the true price with car levels of tax on top. So London to Manchester might be £300 single or so per person.
April 22, 2024
Rigged markets in transport, state v private schools, the NHS, energy, universities, social housing, banking, the legal system… all of these make the UK hugely less efficient and far less competitive.
April 22, 2024
Bridget Phillipson (Shadow Secretary of State for Education) asked about the VAT on private school fees pushing people on to state schools and so not raising any money net at all.
Her answer essentially was – school fees have risen by more than inflation for many years with demand still strong so 20% more will not make any difference. How strong would demand be if the fees were lower and how much would that have saved the state sector Bridget?
Is she lying or just a deluded idiot? The policies is evil, anti-competitive, will do huge harm, kill many good schools and raise a negative sum net. Why on earth should people have to pay four times over to go to the school of their choice how is that fair competition?
April 22, 2024
Modern History at Oxford it seems. The poor lass grew up in a (other tax payers subsidised) council flat with only central heating down stairs. Selected as a candidate on an all women list. So clearly in favour in favour of blatant anti-male discrimination too.
I grew up in an unsubsidised private house with no central heating at all until I helped my dad fit it (downstairs only) when about age 12. Never bothered me it was just the norm at the time.
April 22, 2024
Sunak actually sounds like he is serious just now on his Rwanda agenda. Well we shall see if he really does have the guts to actually do something rather than just say things.
But alas we are so used to lies from him on the “safe” vaccines, his claims to have cut taxes, the lunacy of his green jobs and net zero agenda, his four so far failed pledges…
“The only way to stop the boats is to eliminate the incentives to come”, correct Sunak but this has been obvious for very many years, indeed from the very outset. So why was nothing done for 13 years indeed you fund endless incentives with our taxes? What about the generally low skilled legal migrants Rishi too 1 Million Plus PA who on average lowers the UK living standards.
April 22, 2024
Little rail industry funding seems to be allocated to provision or maintenance of toilets or waiting rooms. These used to be commonplace, open and reasonably-maintained. Now many have been closed for decades.
Waterloo had reopened the large toilets at one end of the concourse. This saved having to visit the burger shops or bars on the concourse only to find they were routinely closed, or required a PIN number that was only supplied after buying a drink. Now those toilets are closed again. Smaller ones are sited in the newer part of the station far from all the platforms.
This is all symptomatic of penny-pinching attitudes. Towns and public places once thought certain facilities were essential. Now they close toilets, libraries, post offices, banks etc.
The Telegraph has an article on a ‘loo leash’ where the public are afraid to venture out because of a lack of toilets. All the old ones have closed. Only those strange kiosk size contraptions remain. Thank God for Wetherspoons. Their toilets are generally exemplary.
April 22, 2024
Indeed Mac Donald’s usually OK too. Coffee, internet, often free parking and a loo all for about £1.50 is a bargain.
I was dropped of at Whitchurch Station Hants recently, train was late, no loo other than for the staff member, nothing close to the station either so had to find a suitable tree up the road away from the houses. Not good to get on trains desperate as the train loos are so often out of action or in use.
April 22, 2024
About the only investments I have seen at stations is new lifts for the disabled. Often they are out of action too.
April 22, 2024
This is an extraordinary sum of money. According to the Office for Road and Rail, rail income for the year to March 2023 was c21/22billion of which the government contributed c11 billion versus total expenditure of c23/24 billion. Yet the reply to your question says the government will “support” the industry to the tune of 33 billion! (I assume this “support covers both capex and operating costs). This is against annual revenues earned from customers of c9 billion in the year to March 2024. Meanwhile they are doing their utmost to drive car owners off the roads. Such is the madness of government policies.
April 22, 2024
£3bn in subsidy, that makes my contribution about £500, and I don’t get any free tickets.
Perhaps less than that when you factor in government borrowing, so some of the cost is being passed on to the next generation. How kind.
April 22, 2024
There’s nothing much one can do with the railways – a bit maybe, but not worth the hassle worrying over.
What we should be worrying over more his how to make Cambridge and Oxford a proper train DESTINATION for high-tech entrepreneurs, turning Cambridge and Oxford into the Silicon Valley of the Rest of the World.
With Cambridge focusing more on industrial, hardware tech and Oxford more on creative, software tech. So, starting off with a super fast train to Cambridge from London (and considering underground to a degree, with boring technology becoming cheaper and cheaper – look at the Chinese) – a state of the art, iconic, double-decker train, with platform in London and station in Cambridge to match the stylishness of the train and to turn Cambridge into a real DESTINATION.
And if this works well, to replicate with Oxford.
And if this works, to connect Cambridge and Oxford accordingly.
This is a creative way to greatly boost the high tech industry, bringing billions more to our economy, with high skills, high value brands and exports.
April 22, 2024
And create a beautiful, stylish, iconic train (red, double-decker) – like we created the iconic red-double London bus, the London black cab, the mini, and so on – people just love stylish tech like this (and ties in well with the high tech industry which should be both high tech and stylish – the essence of the success of Apple phones and computers.
This is where government needs to get really creative instead of over-focusing on the day-to-day challenges of the trains overall.
Reply A double decker trains would mean needing to lift and replace most of the bridges over the railway!
April 22, 2024
I’m not suggesting that for rest of UK, just London to Cambridge (and then Oxford) and also considering going underground for long stretches as boring tech getting more efficient and cheap. Got to think creatively and big to help boost our high tech industry.
Reply Tunnels crippled HS2 costs
April 23, 2024
Having dropped someone off at Cambridge Station last year I can see little point in trying to make it a destination. The one way system now rivals Oxford for forcing you to take unnecessarily long routes, and is subject to extreme traffic lights that don’t change for several minutes, making the 20mph speed limits just the final straw. All ignored by electrically propelled bikes, but you wouldn’t be allowed one on a train. Buses seemed very thin on the ground too.
April 22, 2024
Sir John, If you get a chance to respond to the Dept. of Transport, you could mention that it has not gone unnoticed that they repeatedly describe the taxpayer’s annual rail subsidy as a ‘value’, whereas most speakers of the English language would more accurately call it a ‘cost’.