No to another EU power grab

So now we read confirmation the the EU wants us to accept freedom of movement for under 30 s.
They want to grab more of our fish for longer, demanding an extended and generous access for their trawlers and super trawlers to our waters.

They want to impose more of their  laws on us. They are offering no new and improved access to their market.

None of this makes any sense for the U.K.Still the U.K. government fails to ask for anything that we might need to make our lives better.

Although the U.K. establishment did its best to wreck Brexit and avoid taking advantage of the freedoms, we are saving £12 bn a year and putting that into the NHS, We have avoided a large Share of Euro 800 bn of extra EU borrowing they agreed as soon as we left, and do not have to impose hundreds of costly and unhelpful laws they have imposed since we left.

 

142 Comments

  1. Lynn Atkinson
    December 14, 2024

    And we have established that we are an independent nation state. We can do as we please once we change the professional political class and find people with a backbone attached to a brain.
    This is a suicide note from the Labour Party – Rachel Reeves, confused by the result of her actions ‘believes’ that the EU will bail her out.

    1. David Andrews
      December 14, 2024

      Agreed. The EU needs bailing out as much as, if even not more than, the UK. All the EU wants from the UK is cash, directly or indirectly. Starmer, Reeves and co seem determined to surrender it with nothing of substance in return.

      The best thing the UK has done in recent years is Brexit. The worst thing is not make the most of the opportunities afforded by Brexit because of the actions of the Starmers of this world.

      1. Lifelogic
        December 14, 2024

        “not make the most of the opportunities afforded by Brexit because of the actions of the Starmers of this world”. More the Cameron, May, Boris and Sunak’s of this World. Starmer has not even got going yet. Labour now less popular than both Reform and the Tories (even after their 14 years of appalling serial betrayals)

        1. Lifelogic
          December 14, 2024

          Sam Bidwell in the Telegraph today is spot on.

          Rule by lawyers is holding Britain back from prosperity
          London has become the centre not of economic dynamism, but of regulatory and judicial overreach.

          Suella Braverman on this is clearly wrong she was a child and is clearly a problem – but she is clearly British should never have been stripped of this and is our problem. She will doubtless end up back in the UK eventually.

          For the sake of British values, Shamima Begum must never be allowed back
          Her story is a cautionary tale and a stark reminder of the perils of radicalisation. But it is also a line in the sand.

          What sort of “radicalisation” might that be Suella you do not say – why not?

          1. Lifelogic
            December 14, 2024

            Suella is usually fairly sound, Ben Habib is nearly always sound. Alas not on Shamima Begum. British values and the law say she is British and this should never have been withdrawn by Home Secretary Javid (and all subsequent ones) nor upheld by our rather dire two tier courts.

            How is the (clearly unsafe) judgement against Lucy Letby going? Has she even been allowed to make a first appeal yet or are they too worried about this? Or is she to be kept in jail so as to keep relatives of the alleged victims happy as the not so Hon Wes Streeting suggests. He also says people should shup up on this with is surely miscarriage of justice.

            Wes is one of the brighter Ministers too, he even says the odd thing that is quite sensible occasionally.

          2. a-tracy
            December 16, 2024

            Begum will be back before the end of 2025.

      2. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        Brexit was done by the British Sovereigns (The People), everything else is enacted by our incompetent functionaries. They are unworthy of us and need to be sacked.
        There is a Political Black Hole in Britain. Starmer himself is evidence thereof.

    2. Mark B
      December 14, 2024

      I think we need to change more that just the political class. According to, Dominic Cummings the Senior CS runs the show, ‘completely’ and politicians are just actors in a very badly ‘scripted’ show. And he really means ‘scripted’.

      1. Sharon
        December 14, 2024

        Mark B i’ve heard some of his talk, and it makes so much, make sense!

        I had heard elsewhere about cabinet meetings being scripted.

      2. Lifelogic
        December 14, 2024

        Indeed seems so.

      3. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        We need politicians with their own script. See Thatcher, Redwood, Powell, Shore, Castle, etc etc etc.

    3. Lemming
      December 14, 2024

      Well, you have had almost five years of “freedom” from the EU, under four different Prime Ministers from two different parties. I would love to hear stories of how happy it has made you, but every post I read from a Brexiter howls with anger about terrible it is. Might you one day consider that Brexit itself was a terrible idea? A majority of British voters now think so

      Reply Brexit is a good idea. Let’s get on with it.

      1. Christine
        December 14, 2024

        “A majority of British voters now think so”

        Where have you read that, The Guardian?

        I’ve never met a Brexiter who thought it was a bad idea but I’ve met many that think our political class betrayed us.

        I have spoken to many people from other European countries and all bar none think their countries are going to the dogs with high levels of immigration and declining services.

        1. hefner
          December 14, 2024

          statista.com 11/12/2024 ‘In hindsight, do you think that Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?’

          1. Narrow Shoulders
            December 14, 2024

            will that be one of those accurate polls like the ones preceding the referendum or the ones that said Labour would get 40% in the general election or the ones that showed Theresa May 15% ahead of Corbyn?

          2. Martin in Bristol
            December 14, 2024

            Remainers have deliberately sabotaged the democratic result of the referendum.
            The uni party will never be forgiven for their arrogant we know best attitude.
            Assisted by the worst Speaker of the House of Commons in all history.

          3. Lynn Atkinson
            December 14, 2024

            Who did they ask? Not the majority Hefner. Suck it up, we voted to Leave 5 times!
            You should know that the MSM is a critical arm of the ‘nudge unit’. Ignore it, they have everything wrong.

          4. hefner
            December 15, 2024

            It becomes pleasanter and pleasanter when people are so deep in the rabbit hole that they are left to question the polling organisation.
            Well, statista.com is only collating polls from various polling companies.

            The original poll was conducted by YouGov/DataPraxis with 2,125 Brits part of the study (YouGov in the UK, DataPraxis for other countries in the EU, see comment lower down for Germany, … France.)
            Overall 68% of these 2,125 would accept full free movement. 54% of those who voted for Leave in 2016 would now accept full free movement of people to travel, live and work across EU borders in return for access to the EU’s single market.
            Among those 59% of ‘red wall’ voters would back this trade-off as well as 81% of people who voted Labour in 2024.
            Only Reform voters in the 2024 elections narrowly oppose this trade-off by 45% to 44% (and those represented only 14.3% of the voters at the GE.)

            Reply Polling based on the General election is very different to opinions now.

      2. Donna
        December 14, 2024

        No we haven’t had freedom. Significant policy areas are still controlled by the EU.

        1. hefner
          December 14, 2024

          ‘Significant’ is a worthless qualificative as your comment is written.
          What are the UK policy areas still controlled by the EU, please?

          1. Narrow Shoulders
            December 14, 2024

            VAT in Northern Ireland and therefore the rest of the UK

            “UK-EU Divergence Tracker Q4 2023
            This edition of UK in a Changing Europe’s UK-EU Regulatory Divergence Tracker, covers developments from October 2023 to January 2024.

            The Regulatory Divergence Trackers provide an overview of where and how the UK has used its regulatory freedoms to diverge from EU regulation. It identifies and analyses the most significant cases of divergence between the UK and EU which have taken place since Brexit. It explains what the changes are, what impact they are having, and likely further consequences.

            In the Q4 2023 edition, the tracker finds nine cases of active divergence (where the UK, or some part of it, changes its rules); ten of passive divergence (where the EU changes its rules and the UK, or some part of it, does not follow); two of procedural divergence (where policy does not diverge but the processes for managing it do); and four of active alignment (where the UK takes steps to align more closely with EU rules, systems or programmes).”
            https://ukandeu.ac.uk/reports/uk-eu-divergence-tracker-q4-2023/

          2. Lynn Atkinson
            December 14, 2024

            Because the Remainers still dominate the loathed political class. They are specifically selected for that purpose. Substandard in every respect.
            We need to sack the party machines and SELECT our own candidates.

        2. hefner
          December 15, 2024

          Reply to reply: Indeed, asking how people had voted in the GE was just for getting an indication, as is usually done in this type of polls when a more general election has recently taken place.
          Lord Ashcroft in his own polls does the same.

      3. Ed M
        December 14, 2024

        It’s really bad energy to keep complaining about Brexit.
        I voted against it as I didn’t think we were ready (like trying to plan DDay for 1942 and without the Americans instead of DDay in 1944 with the Americans). I still stand to that view.
        However, Brexit won. Remainers have to accept that (in fact, they should have from Day 1 of the win). And get on with making Brexit work – and work well. Which it CAN (even though its beginnings were fairly shambolic / daft but we CAN move on from that – and make it a real success).
        So please stop complaining about Brexit – and get behind it.
        And at end of day, patriotism is a great thing – and that includes being a completely sovereign nation (but with healthy ties with Europe in terms of trade, culture and security without being tied down to each other by legally-binding agreements – but rather in good will – a bit like the relationship between the UK and Ireland over the last 70 years and between the Scandinavian countries – something like that).

        1. Gordon
          December 14, 2024

          I would have got behind Brexit the day after the vote – if I knew what it meant. But never once did the Brexiters explain how they’d prevent Northern Ireland being split from GB, how we held all the cards, how we’d pay for all the new barriers to free trade, how we’d staff our care homes, hospitals and farms etc etc. who’s to blame for Brexit’s failure? The no-plan Brexiters

          1. Lynn Atkinson
            December 14, 2024

            We did all that for 800 years. Why do you need more proof?
            Understand that we were defeated without a war. We were obliterated for nearly 50 years. There were no British citizens and even the Queen became a Suzereign.
            The cowardly and limited political class are afraid that they can’t govern. They are correct. They are hardly fit for the Complaints Department.
            They agreed our ‘Treaty of Versailles’ – the price we pay for recovering the core of our country. We are stripped of all else.
            ITS WORTH IT! The Ulster-men must come home to England. They are mostly Anglo-Irish anyway. We need them. I had to come home from the Dominions.

          2. Ed M
            December 14, 2024

            Brexit (the planning of or lack of – NOT the concept of sovereignty) was a shambles / daft.
            But Brexit won.
            And sovereignty is way more important than the EU.
            And far more challenging things have been accomplished than making something such as Brexit work.
            Just need to get on with it!

        2. Lynn Atkinson
          December 14, 2024

          Each day that elapsed we were weakened. We became less and less ‘ready’. That was the plan.

          1. hefner
            December 14, 2024

            Not suzereign, vassal.

      4. MFD
        December 14, 2024

        Lemming
        Brexit ( I do detest that stupid name , typically dream’t up by some EU lowlife) was the best move but we have been punished by the globalists as it hindered their first step to world governance

        1. hefner
          December 14, 2024

          Brexit, word said to have been invented in 2012 by Peter Wilding, the chairman of ‘British Influence’.

          1. Ed M
            December 15, 2024

            A lot of hot-air Tory think-tank nonsense.
            Keep things simple. Yes to low taxers etc. But first we have to TRY and sort out the cultural problem in this country (which is 90% the real problem – not politics or economic policy)

            – Lots of people with children by different ‘partners’
            – But native population still not procreating enough
            – Collapse of the family
            – People turning for help from the state instead of family
            – Decline in work ethic and productivity
            – Low grade depression (as opposed to clinical depression) amongst millions of people because of their lifestyles
            – The stress of family life or lack of and other stresses leading millions of people to hospital and NHS costing tax payer zillions

            And that’s just the start of it. The arguments politicians have aren’t going to make a huge difference. The real battle is to be find sympathy for traditional Conservative values in the Arts, Media, Education, Churches etc – so that we can reverse the crazy cultural mindset that is destroying our country and the Western World.

        2. Lemming
          December 15, 2024

          I see. So Brexit gave us back our independence. But it turned out we don’t have independence because of “globalists”. It would have been nice if you’d realised that before you voted to weaken our country by voting for Brexit. You were warned we were stronger inside the EU

          Reply We were a rule taker having to pay large sums to them

          1. hefner
            December 15, 2024

            Over the years the maximum UK contribution to the EU was £15bn, usually a net contribution of £9bn. Out of a total GDP of roughly £2.5tn that’s 0.6%.

            £15bn that’s also
            – the same amount as the debt of Thames Water (likely to be largely paid in last resort by the consumers),
            – less than half the amount (£37bn) of the support package that the B.Johnson’s government had for the most vulnerable in 2020-21, with £15bn to support the energy bills,
            – the cost of the Vodafone-Three merger,
            – the amount of the ´red-flagged’ COVID contracts now being investigated,
            – about the fourth of the annual cost of obesity in the UK (£58n),
            – the cost to the public over 5 years of the poor-performing IT in government departments,
            – smaller than the £22bn hole left by the previous Cons- to the new government,
            – a 20th of the £311bn Brexit hole in the economy by 2035.

          2. a-tracy
            December 16, 2024

            Hefner, you seem to forget inflation and the amounts we would be paying now. I want to thank Gully Foyle on X for putting a list of 75 benefits together; here are just a few:
            1. The UK paid 12.5% of the core EU budget, gross contribution 2024 approx 24bn euros, net 15bn.
            2. Customs revenue £2.5bn
            3. Plastic pollution deterrent £1bn
            4. Emission Trading Scheme we keep 100% of it now £6bn
            5. EU Migration pact, UK share 13% 2.5bn in addition to what we’re taking in irregular migration or would have taken place with legal EU migration.
            6. Swiss equity trade now EU ban lifted £2bn pa
            7. 45 trade barrier removals £1bn extra revenue for UK businesses
            8. No longer on the hook for all the EU fines for undeclared customs taxes, it’s not the public’s fault that some rogue companies didn’t declare we get the fine, not them.
            9 No longer on the hook for fines for taxes we don’t collect on (illegal ) vices – prostitution, drugs.
            10. No longer providing Erasmus loans at our expense for tuition and maintenance, the majority of which weren’t getting regular 9% grad tax payments in.

      5. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        I’m MUCH happier than I was when we were European Citizens. Does not mean I don’t despise our current political elitists – but WE are the SOVEREIGNS and can SACK THEM.

        What bit don’t you like?

      6. a-tracy
        December 16, 2024

        We were only free to negotiate after that period expired from 1/1/21 – four years.
        We only stopped paying in the ‘divorce’ payment this September, that’s why they want our money back and Starmer is just going to gift it, like all the gifts he’s handing out like toffees right now, whilst telling pensioners he can’t afford to give them a small winter fuel payment.

      7. Francescaa Skinner
        December 16, 2024

        Polls show people don’t regret their decision, at least we have our freedom to make what ever trade deals this country wants and needs, the E.U.s latest Trade Deal has taken 26 years and then has to be voted on by another 27 members and guess what it doesn’t even meet E.U. standards. This country has saved Billions since we left even during Covid we made our on decisions on Vaccines what price do you put on Freedom and Sovereignty. Judging by the present mess the E.U. is in it highlights what a failed experiment it is and the British people made the right decision unlike most of the Politicians who like to ride the Gravy Train. One more thing the E.U. has not had its Accounts signed off for years because of Corruption.

        1. hefner
          December 21, 2024

          facts4eu.org ‘For the first time ever, the Auditor General refuses to sign off the UK’s public accounts’.
          That’s a hole of £55bn for 2020/21, £64bn for 2021/22, and £75bn for 2022/23.

          And BTW the EU accounts have been signed off since 2007. Up to that date they were not considered as ‘fair and accurate’ (fullfact.org ‘Is the EU’s budget ‘signed off’ by auditors’.)

    4. IanT
      December 14, 2024

      “Backbone attached to a Brain” – very succinct Lynn 🙂

  2. Geoffrey Berg
    December 14, 2024

    I very much agree with this blog

    1. Lemming
      December 14, 2024

      Do you? Even though it is untrue to claim the EU wants us to accept freedom of movement for under 30 s (the proposal is not about freedom of movement at all, only about far more limited short-term access)? Even though the EU has not the slightest interest in imposing more of their laws on us (they can’t, that is entirerly a decision for the UK, didn’t you notice Brexit happened already)? Even though the U.K. establishment did nothing to wreck Brexit (the Brexiters did that all by themsleves by having no plan, most of all no plan to stop Northern Ireland being taken out of the UK – as has happened thanks to Brexit)? Even though we have not avoided a large Share of Euro 800 bn of extra EU borrowing (because we had an opt out that protected us from that)?

      1. Dave Andrews
        December 14, 2024

        I think you have a point. It’s not so much the EU wants to impose on the UK, but the europhiles in our government want to force the EU onto us.

      2. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        There is and always was free access for the young. My husband, 76, went to Germany and lectured in Mainz University after graduating. It is a lie to claim that only the EU allowed free access for scholars and young people.

  3. Ian wragg
    December 14, 2024

    2TK is a rabid europhile. He’s not interested in what’s good for the UK as long as he can strut about on the world stage.
    Government including the tories have put us in a position 100% reliant on imported electricity to which france will use to blackmail us. Already the EU are talking of restricting access to the energy market, the biggest exportter being EDF belonging to the French government.
    The clowns in Westminster are discussing another 32 undersea cables for power even after what happened to the 2 Internet cables in the Baltic.
    It’s not been particularly cold and we have been running the electricity grid on a wing and a prayer. Power cuts can’t come soon enough.

    1. Donna
      December 14, 2024

      The original version of what has become the EU was the Coal and Steel Pact – later extended to include agriculture. ie to ensure that the essential materials necessary to wage war were controlled by the EEC/EU.

      Think of the electricity connectors in that context: they’re intended to ensure that the power supply is interdependent and effectively controlled by the EU. We are no longer IN the EU (just semi-attached) but they still need to maintain their control of the UK via the energy supply in order to control a great deal else.

      1. hefner
        December 14, 2024

        energy-uk.org.uk 24/10/2024 ‘Energy UK explains: The cost of the UK-EU relationship for energy’.
        Please download the .pdf (4 pages) for more details.

        Also reports.electricinsights.co.uk ‘Q2 2024: Britain imports one fifth of its electricity’.
        There is also a .pdf to explore.

        And just for the like of Donna, it is not the EU as such that sells or buys electricity via the interconnectors, but the individual countries depending on their needs.

        But it is clear that trying to make some people understand what is going on now is like the French say ‘pi** in a violin’ and expect Mozart’s concerto n.1 in B flat K.207.

        1. Ian wragg
          December 14, 2024

          But the biggest supplier is EDF which is wholly owned by the French government and us being used to blackmail us.

        2. Donna
          December 14, 2024

          The EU controls energy supply policy for the member states and effectively the UK since we are not allowed to compete with “our friends” in the EU.
          https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/68/energy-policy-general-principles

          1. Lynn Atkinson
            December 14, 2024

            And they are buying HUGE quantities from Russia – they admit it. 😂

          2. hefner
            December 14, 2024

            ‘The EU controls energy supply policy for the member states’, wrong, each member is still able to build whatever energy supply they want. That’s why France has been trying (for ten years) to start the Flamanville EPR and otherwise depends for a large part on nuclear-produced electricity, Germany still depends on fossil fuels (a large part Russian gas and their own coal) but has a sizeable renewable electricity sector, the Netherlands on their gas, Italy from imports from France and Switzerland, Denmark on North Sea oil and gas, Sweden on nuclear and gas, etc …
            If the ‘EU’ controls the energy supply policy it is doing a very bad job.

            As for your ‘effectively the UK is not able to compete’, the UK has to import and export its energy at market prices as since Brexit (01/01/2021) the UK has left the SDAC (Single Day-Ahead Coupling) mechanism.

            statista.com 06/08/2024 ‘energy imports into the UK – Statistics and facts’.
            entsoe.eu 20/11/2024 ‘Single day-ahead coupling (SDAC)’.

        3. Original Richard
          December 14, 2024

          hefner:

          The NESO report “Clean Power 2030” shows a bar chart in “Annex 4 : Cost and Benefit Analysis” P23 Figure 9 that we will be importing electricity at positive prices and exporting at negative prices.

          On P22 NESO write:

          “As Great Britain transitions to a clean power system, it is anticipated to become a net exporter of electricity (Figure 9). However, exports will be highest during periods of high renewable energy output, which typically coincide with relatively lower prices under current arrangements (Figure 8). While exporting can help recover some costs compared to curtailing excess generation, significant net exports at low prices still incur some overall costs to the British system.”

          In fact even with 35 GW of unabated gas generators on hand the grid will need additional power of up to 7 GW to prevent grid collapse. This will be either through DSR, aka rolling blackouts, and/or through imports at very high prices. It will be interesting to see which option the government selects as it will be a political decision.

          1. anon
            December 15, 2024

            The strategic aim should be for a net zero balanced supply in both directions in terms of GWH and £ . Maybe an export surplus, to ensure a surge capacity , if there is a demand need so we can safely supply friendly countries.

        4. Donna
          December 15, 2024

          We are an island of coal sitting in a sea with oil and gas so why are we importing energy? Because the Establishment REFUSES to permit it. The Trade and Cooperation Agreement (which is the basis for Associate Membership in due course) means that legally, whilst we are outside the EU, the pro-EU Establishment can, and has, ensured that we are still largely controlled by Brussels. The Windsor Treaty strengthened that position.

          1. glen cullen
            December 15, 2024

            Agree, our energy costs could be a quarter of there current cost

  4. agricola
    December 14, 2024

    I want to see what labour remainers are proposing debated line by line in the Commons, so that it can be shreaded.

    I want it made clear to the EU that an incoming Reform government will reverse this and all the other unexploded devices left behind, such as the Windsor Framework.

    Another item that we can add to Starmers Sins, when the time comes. A truely traiterous PM representing only 20% of those who voted last July.

    1. Mick
      December 14, 2024

      A truely traiterous PM representing only 20% of those who voted last July
      How very true and the only people to blame is ourselves for letting this bunch of clowns in, and to think we have another over 4 years for these idiots to totally destroy this country

  5. David Peddy
    December 14, 2024

    EU demands are totally unacceptable

    1. Lifelogic
      December 14, 2024

      Not unacceptable to two tier Kier I suspect.

  6. Cliff.. Wokingham.
    December 14, 2024

    Sir John,
    I am sure you mean their laws in para 2.
    What worries me, is that if we accept freedom of movement for the under thirties, will that include the majority of their asylum seekers, given that most appear to be young males? Is this another sneaky move by a dishonest, shabby government?

    1. Christine
      December 14, 2024

      That’s my worry too.

    2. Lifelogic
      December 14, 2024

      +1

    3. Diane
      December 14, 2024

      C W – I would say you are spot on. Just why have the EU heads been so very pushy on this for quite a while now. They really have & there’s a reason for that. For it to work it needs a good mechanism for effective control and limitations and the UK is rather bad at that. I also read some while back that the EU’s proposal for those coming to study here was for students not to have to pay our international rate but our domestic study fee. Whether that’s still the case, not sure.
      Just noted that on 12 Dec & 13 Dec, just 2 days, we have received from the EU via the Channel, 907 individuals in 14 boats.

    4. Mickey Taking
      December 14, 2024

      to answer your last question ..yes it does!

    5. MFD
      December 14, 2024

      +1

    6. anon
      December 15, 2024

      Yep so obvious. Will they have to post bonds ,and be fully funded by the EU until they are repatriated.

  7. Bloke
    December 14, 2024

    A nation loses its qualities when anyone is free to enter its citizens’ territory without control.
    Places like that become nowhere lands. Under 30s would be a thin end of a sharp edge.

  8. Mark B
    December 14, 2024

    Good morning.

    . . . we are saving £12 bn a year and putting that into the NHS, We have avoided a large Share of Euro 800 bn of extra EU borrowing they agreed as soon as we left . . .

    Two things here. A saving of £12bn for the NHS equals just 24 days of spending for said NHS. And I am of the opinion reading, ian wraggs contributions regarding charges for energy that we are paying the EU via ‘other means’. The other thing is regarding the borrowing. Yes, we may not be liable for new borrowing, but I believe that we are still liable for old borrowing.

    I thought Leave meant Leave ?

    1. Lifelogic
      December 14, 2024

      Well you surely did not trust “leave means leave” Theresa Net Zero May did you? Now off to the Lords for her services to gross serial incompetence and blatant dishonesty against the people.

    2. Lynn Atkinson
      December 14, 2024

      No, it was ‘Brexit means Brexit’ which to T May meant ‘pretend to leave but stay’.
      She is a Narcissist. Lying is the natural default to that personality type.

  9. Peter Wood
    December 14, 2024

    Dear Agricola, fabulous wishes!
    If we’ve learned anything since 2TK took over, it’s that he tries to hide all his sins, obfuscates, refuses to answer questions and has no interest really in the accountability required by Parliament, preferring the unaccountable style of the ‘Davos elite’ and the WEF. We have allowed into power a true, undemocratic socialist; and that’s why he fits in so well in Berlaymont, where, if we went back into the EU, he thinks he could govern without question. Starmer wants back in and will do ANYTHING he can to achieve it, good or bad for us doesn’t come into the calculation, the UK is just a bargaining chip.
    Who gave us such a poor Brexit deal. Yes the ‘establishment’ (AKA the Whitehall Civil Service) but also May, Johnson and Sunak. The lot of them didn’t want the responsibility of running a nation; too hard and stops you getting invited to glamourous EU parties. We have to ‘hope’ (sorry Germany) that Germany runs into real economic problems and stops funding the EU. We know the rest of them can’t and that we be th end of that experiment.

    1. Wanderer
      December 14, 2024

      +1 Peter Wood.

      Germany is in turmoil, with the attempts by the establishment to destroy opposition by means of attacking freedom of speech in general and the AfD in particular.

      Part of the establishment (Greens) is ideologically committed to de-industrialisation, but another part is now having second thoughts as voters are slowly waking up. It remains to be seen how much damage the Greens will be allowed to do in the establishment’s absolute determination to deny the AfD power.

      After the collapse of the current coalition, Federal elections are set for 23rd February. It will be some time after that when we’ll see what coalition emerges and have more clarity on whether Germany is going to put a brake on its self-inflicted decline. I hope they remain foolish long enough to bankrupt the EU, but I think self-interest may prevail. Who knows?

    2. Donna
      December 14, 2024

      I have a number of friends in Germany, one in particular. She reports that it’s getting pretty grim there. Redundancies; regular ethnic minority violence; the AfD surging, particularly in the former East Germany which scares her in view of the country’s history. She is a Civil Servant and this week said she is glad she has a secure job because 3 friends in the private sector have been made redundant in the past couple of weeks ….(suffering from the delusion that public sector jobs are safe when the private sector which pays for them is collapsing).

    3. Know-Dice
      December 14, 2024

      Peter,
      Don’t forget the Benn Bill which tied the hands of the negotiators to NOT leave without a “deal”, not surprising that the EU got the better deal.

      1. Peter Wood
        December 15, 2024

        Yes, if there was ever any need for confirmation of a majority of MPs desire to frustrate Brexit, this was it. I couldn’t believe the stupidity of removing the single most important negotiating lever, being able to walk away.
        Passed third reading in Commons with a majority of 28 (327 votes to 299).

  10. Peter Parsons
    December 14, 2024

    So it’s ok for the UK to have a youth mobility visa scheme with Japan, South Korea, Australia and Canada (as already exists), but not France or Germany?

    Interesting attitude.

    1. Sir Joe Soap
      December 14, 2024

      They don’t want to steal our fish.
      Do you understand the meaning of quid pro quo?

      1. Wanderer
        December 14, 2024

        Sir Joe S. That’s “squid Pro quo”.

      2. Mark
        December 14, 2024

        Perhaps it’s squid pro quo?

      3. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        They don’t want to steal our country and destroy our nation.

    2. Donna
      December 14, 2024

      We’re not allowed to agree one for France or Germany. That might be worth having (debatable).

      We would have to have one for the whole of the EU, which potentially means millions of unemployed EU under 30s moving here – including the under 30 criminal element from certain eastern European countries.

    3. Peter Gardner
      December 14, 2024

      It’s never that simple with the EU.

    4. IanT
      December 14, 2024

      We have agreements with thirteen other countries, all of which are a considerable (e.g. costly air travel) distance away and all of which have reasonable control of their own borders & citizens. I don’t see folk from Japan, Australia or Canada trying to flee here….

      In theory the EU looks to be the same deal but I’m afraid that travel from the EU is very much easier (and cheaper) by boat, car and train from an area that has clearly lost control of it’s borders and citizenship. How does the UK Government control the volume of “under 30’s” (and does it even want to)?

      It’s a potential Trojan Horse. A way of allowing further mass immigration, just under a different name. Quite possibly I’m being paranoid but we already have a serious problem with too many newcomers needing housing, healthcare and public services – so why add to it?

    5. Ian wragg
      December 14, 2024

      It’s not france and Germany It’s the whole EU. They want to export their youth unemployment to the UK.

      1. Diane
        December 14, 2024

        IW : And how is that EU Enlargement project coming along. Who’s next. They’ll probably be making more ‘progress’ over the next few years …..

    6. Qubus Merrie
      December 14, 2024

      Due to the universality of the English language, there will be at least ten times as many EU young people coming to the UK than the other direction. And just think of the size of the EU population compared with the UK.

  11. Donna
    December 14, 2024

    The Establishment and the puppeticians in Westminster refused to implement the result of the Referendum, including most of the MPs who were then in the Not-a-Conservative-Party.

    The “Deal” and the Windsor Treachery were not intended to give us back the ability to govern our own country (which is what LEAVE meant), they were intended to ensure that we couldn’t do that and could, over time, be dragged back into the EU as an official Associate Member when a two-tier structure is constructed (Eurozone and non-Eurozone).

    The EU is falling apart and appears to be getting closer to collapse. I suspect the Establishment’s priority is to try and prevent that from happening.

    This Government is going to drag us back as much and as quickly as it can and in the process will wreck any chance of having a decent trade deal with Trump’s USA.

    We will need a Reform Government in order to really LEAVE the EU and benefit from Trump (and in due course JD Vance’s) America.

  12. Sir Joe Soap
    December 14, 2024

    Again we have to ask “where are our good negotiators?”. It’s not as though, as a nation, we have some stupid gene running through us. Yet we first put up Cameron to lose to Merkel then back the wrong side-through misjudgement rather than just stupidity. Then May, truly hopeless, Johnson, misguided by some marital machinations, Sunak, guided against our best interests by malevolent forces. Now Starmer, who seems ideologically to want to diss the country in any way possible and is a kind of May-lite negotiator to boot.

    1. Peter Gardner
      December 14, 2024

      The British have a long standing tradition of losing every battle except the last, or, as some bright spark put it, the only way to make the British stand up is first to bring them to their knees. This is UK’s fate under the Starmer Gang.

      1. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        The last battle is when the people are involved. It’s the People who win. But we now face massive problems in our cities and towns. The situation is very serious, we start as an occupied nation. The politicians are right to be terrified of the results of their own works.

    2. Denis Cooper
      December 14, 2024

      https://www.briefingsforbritain.co.uk/newsletter-24-11-24/

      “The government is reportedly scrapping the role of Chief Trade Negotiator in the Department of Business and Trade and will lose Crawford Falconer, who has overseen the UK’s hugely successful post-Brexit trade negotiations. Meanwhile, the government is now advertising for a full time EU negotiator at Permanent Secretary level — presumably part of its ongoing ‘reset’ of UK-EU relations. Keir Starmer seems to have decided that the UK must focus on the stagnating economies of the past and turn its back on the flourishing global economies of the future.”

  13. Blazes
    December 14, 2024

    Makes sense from the EU point so what are you going to do about it except more whinge.
    Labour was voted in and Labour is going to do as Labour does – for at least ten years more.

    1. Peter Gardner
      December 14, 2024

      Glad you recognise that the five year convention is unlikely to be respected by Labour. I thought I was the only person who realised this. There really is nothing to force Starmer’s Gang to submit to the electorate after five, seven, ten or more years. It can stay in power as long as it chooses. UK is heading to towards becoming either a one-party state or a caliphate.

      1. Mickey Taking
        December 14, 2024

        Mark my words – Starmer’s storm troopers choosing more than 5 years will start rebellion in the streets.

      2. MFD
        December 14, 2024

        +1

    2. Wanderer
      December 14, 2024

      Blazes. I hope you’re not correct about 10 years or more. I’m convinced the economy will be such a mess come the next election, they won’t pick up 20% of those voting.

      The big issue is where the “anything but Labour” vote goes: will the Tories still be damaged goods, and will Reform look like a government-in-waiting?

    3. Lynn Atkinson
      December 14, 2024

      Oh our Parliament sits for 10 years! I missed that change….

  14. Brian Tomkinson
    December 14, 2024

    The answers to the EU’s three demands – No! No! No!

  15. Christine
    December 14, 2024

    “A majority of British voters now think so”

    Where have you read that, The Guardian?

    I’ve never met a Brexiter who thought it was a bad idea but I’ve met many that think our political class betrayed us.

    I have spoken to many people from other European countries and all bar none think their countries are going to the dogs with high levels of immigration and declining services.

    1. hefner
      December 14, 2024

      A European survey of the UK, Germany, Poland, Spain, Italy and France with the following categories:
      a. The UK-EU relationship should become closer,
      b. The current UK-EU relationship should continue,
      c. The UK-EU relationship should become more distant,
      d. Don’t know.
      UK 55, 22, 10, 13%
      Germany 45, 28, 9, 19%
      Poland 44, 24, 5, 28%
      Spain 41, 32, 11, 16 %
      Italy 40, 26, 11, 24%
      France 34, 28, 11, 27%.
      YouGov/Datapraxis 11-24/11/2024

      See also TheLocal.com 12/12/2024 ‘Brexit reset: why majority of EU citizens want closer ties with the UK’.

      1. Sam
        December 14, 2024

        Is “closer” a real significant benefit for the UK hefner ?
        Please itemise the actual benefits that will result.
        Looking forward to your expert response.

      2. Mickey Taking
        December 14, 2024

        Did you expect anything different? I imagine they all thought closer might mean UK paying a large share like before of the 800bn Budget! Plus I doubt they want to pay 2% of GDP on Defence when the Brits will cover them either!

      3. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        Stop swallowing garbage. You know the rule – garbage in … garbage out.

      4. Donna
        December 15, 2024

        What’s it got to do with EU citizens? We are a Sovereign nation, legally outside the EU. What EU citizens want is irrelevant. Polls signify little, since the answer depends on the question asked and who is asking the question. Prior to the Referendum the polls showed that Remain would win: they were wrong then and I expect they are wrong now.

  16. Denis Cooper
    December 14, 2024

    Even EU supporter John Springford recognises that the kind of ‘reset’ being mooted would be worth very little:

    https://www.itv.com/news/2024-12-09/new-economic-partnership-with-eu-will-do-little-to-offset-the-costs-of-brexit

    However where he goes wrong is in greatly overestimating the economic value of rejoining the EU single market.

  17. Peter Gardner
    December 14, 2024

    We really need a Make Britain Great Again movement in UK. Hardly anyone in Westminster and Whitehall is on the side of UK. The great attraction of the EU is that it is supra-national and is therefore a mechanism for bypassing democracy, the model for one-world government. Hence it appeals to all the wrong sort of people.

    1. Mickey Taking
      December 14, 2024

      The UK economy shrinks 2 months in a row.
      We’ll stop the boats.
      Businesses are closing, unable to afford Ms Reeves taxation.
      Farmers might choose to stop and sell up in the next year, why struggle on to get mugged by Labour.?
      The UK does not have enough construction workers to build the 1.5 million homes the government has promised, industry leaders have warned. Tens of thousands of new recruits are needed for bricklaying, groundworks and carpentry to get anywhere near the target, they told the BBC.
      The Home Builders Federation (HBF), along with the UK’s largest housebuilder Barratt Redrow said skills shortages, ageing workers and Brexit were some of the factors behind the shrinking workforce.
      The government confirmed there was a “dire shortage” of construction workers but said it was “taking steps to rectify” the problem. Last week, Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer repeated the pledge he made soon after taking power to deliver 1.5 million new homes in England by 2029.
      Glad tidings to you all.

      1. Lynn Atkinson
        December 14, 2024

        Yes, ‘cheer up, things are getting worse’. Norris McWhirter always said this because things have to be bad before they crash and burn. It’s the salami slicing and addition of pain a bit at a time that kills you.

  18. Old Albion
    December 14, 2024

    Perhaps His majesty’s official opposition could do some work (for once) and highlight Two-Tiers impending betrayal.
    Or continue arguing about sandwiches …………………….

    1. Donna
      December 14, 2024

      Rupert Lowe (Reform) does more by way of Opposition on his own than the entirety of the Not-a-Conservative-Official-Opposition.

      1. MFD
        December 14, 2024

        +1

  19. Original Richard
    December 14, 2024

    PP :

    Are Germany and France the only EU countries? Do some EU countries sell their passports for less than an illegal Channel crossing? Are the 4 countries mentioned awash with illegal migrants?

    The U.K. could have remained in the EU and there would have been no Ukraine war if the EU were not so greedy and/or destructive to want to expand all the way to the Urals as promoted by PM Cameron in his 2013 Kazakhstan speech.

    1. Mitchel
      December 14, 2024

      The Ukraine war is about NATO expansion,not EU enlargement.

      The Romanian presidential elections have been cancelled because the leading candidate is anti-NATO.In a short interview with Sky’s Adam Parsons last weekend he openly accused NATO of being an offensive,not defensive,organization.NATO is building a large base in Romania (why?) and he does not want his country dragged into war with Russia.

      1. Original Richard
        December 14, 2024

        Mitchel :

        It’s about both.

  20. Paul Freedman
    December 14, 2024

    Like Blair, Labour will manipulate and con the country into re-joining the EU (and be ‘at the heart of the Europe’). The only way to stop this legerdemain is for the Conservative Party to readopt its Thatcherite positioning which will win the next election, propel Brexit and boost British exports all over the world.
    Let’s not forget we are overwhelmingly a service-based economy and the transportation of services is electronic and instant so our proximity to our export destinations is mostly irrelevant. There are therefore hardly any advantages to being in the EU so Labour’s drift towards it is pure Socialist sentiment.

    1. Denis Cooper
      December 14, 2024

      On page 8 here:

      https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7851/CBP-7851.pdf

      “The UK exported £185 billion of goods and £171 billion of services to the EU in 2023. The UK imported £319 billion of goods from the EU and £147 billion of services. Overall, the UK had a trade deficit of £110 billion with the EU. A surplus of £24 billion on trade in services was outweighed by a deficit of £134 billion on trade in goods.”

      But in the public debate the focus is almost entirely on just one of those four numbers – the “£185 billion of goods”, which allegedly could be greatly increased by aligning our entire economy with EU rules.

      Well, suppose that it was increased, by 10%, which would be £18.5 billion. UK GDP was £2.54 trillion in 2023, so divide the one by the other and the increase in goods exported to the EU would be equivalent to 0.7% of GDP.

      That is only the start of it, but we can immediately see that with goods exports to the EU comprising about 7% of our national output the effect of any change to trading arrangements will be greatly diluted, by a factor of 14.

      And we haven’t yet considered the effect of any reduction in imports and the potential for import substitution.

      1. Denis Cooper
        December 15, 2024

        But according to this:

        https://www.politico.eu/article/poll-brexit-voter-accept-free-movement-eu-single-market-access/

        we have no access to the EU single market, and most people would accept free movement in order to get it.

        This is the result of the rubbish that has been fed to the people by their politicians over decades.

        It has even got to the point where they agreed to risk a break up of our country to get a trade deal with the EU.

  21. Bryan Harris
    December 14, 2024

    This is exactly what we foresaw that Starmer would do – creep us into and under the control of the EU, little by little, until we were totally shafted.

    They couldn’t do it honestly or legitimately – they haven’t even asked for our support, knowing that they have no case to get us back into the EU.
    Truly, this defines the morals of this labour government – their deceit and abuse of democracy will become legendary, for none of their actions are to the benefit of the UK.

    Time to start recalling MPs who support these anti-Britain measures.

    1. hefner
      December 14, 2024

      Do you know how the ‘Recall of MPs Act 2015´ is triggered? No I guess not.

      1. anon
        December 15, 2024

        Probably not a breach of the Nolan principles. But we can hope.

  22. majorfrustration
    December 14, 2024

    Nigel needs to keep reminding us what he is going to change come the next election.

  23. DOM
    December 14, 2024

    This should make Powell, Blair, Starmer, Cameron and Osborne very happy. Not sure why John doesn’t aim both barrels at Labour and his own party rather than the EU? The enemy is within. Name names or don’t bother

  24. Kenneth
    December 14, 2024

    If the Labour Party continues down this road of self destruction (for the country and its own party) then I see plenty of MPs walking accross the floor within the next couple of years.

    The question is, where will they go?

  25. formula57
    December 14, 2024

    Reprehensible though it has been that “… the U.K. establishment did its best to wreck Brexit and avoid taking advantage of the freedoms…” at least we are given to know who is our enemy.

    1. Mickey Taking
      December 14, 2024

      But we don’t – name names please?

  26. glen cullen
    December 14, 2024

    I fear that under the leadership of Kemi, the tories are in no position to oppose any labour venture into the EU

  27. mancunius
    December 14, 2024

    ‘we are saving £12 bn a year and putting that into the NHS’ – the world’s most depressingly dysfunctional money-pit. Can we really not find something better to do with it than sacrifice it on the altar of the national secular religion?

    1. Mickey Taking
      December 14, 2024

      How about moving hundreds/thousands of CS into Immigration Controls / Border Force / Army camp hospitality enforcement?

    2. MFD
      December 14, 2024

      and now I have a letter from the NHS doctor, that they are going totally digital and as I am not digitally educated I will have no GP!

  28. Christopher H Sheldrake
    December 14, 2024

    Starmer should take a leaf straight out of the current Brussels playbook :

    “if any agreement is to be reached between London and Brussels, it must include parallel negotiations on a binding agreement on services. There can be no agreement on fishing and the trade in goods, without one on services.
    Negotiations will only be credible if they are based on an early understanding on this between the parties”

    It must also be made clear that the UK will not accept any oversight by the ECJ.

  29. JayCee
    December 14, 2024

    I would like to know what we might get in return.
    Think positive.

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      December 14, 2024

      😂
      We all know judging the results of all the other ‘negotiations’ – you know, when Mrs May said alone in a room eating sandwiches while the EU drafted the ‘agreement’!

  30. glen cullen
    December 14, 2024

    298 criminals arrived in the UK yesterday from the safe country of France …just a few more for a free christmas dinner

    1. Mickey Taking
      December 14, 2024

      I assume our homeless and evicted have all been found a hotel room, health checked, given pocket money and fed and watered?

      1. glen cullen
        December 14, 2024

        Apparently over 1,000 in just 3 days …All Border Force on Christmas leave

  31. Mickey Taking
    December 14, 2024

    Hot of the press – Wokingham Conservatives dropped an appeal in our door for opinions on 3,900 new houses planned for Hall Farm. It would basically join Winnersh, Earley, Shinfield and Arborfield together.
    The LibDems delayed a Local Plan to help them get elected, now they support this monster building proposal.
    Removing countryside and farming, chopping down thousands of trees, risking even more flooding problems, increasing lack of support infrastructure, pressure on schools again, road congestion….
    The call is for opinions to campaign against the plans.

    1. Lynn Atkinson
      December 14, 2024

      But Starmer is buying 1,000 new homes for asylum seekers. Must be in Wokingham.

      1. Chris S
        December 15, 2024

        While we have indigenous British people who are homeless, if the government is to buy any homes, they should be bought only to house our own people first. Only then should homes be acquired to house asylum seekers.

    2. Robert Pay
      December 16, 2024

      Plus, possibly, a huge influx of low skill migrants to help flip the constituency.

  32. Linda Brown
    December 15, 2024

    How does one stop this grab when you have a government, only a third of the population wanted, with a massive majority which none of us who did not want them or the EU in our lives cannot get rid of for another 5 years? I despair in my retirement of what will become of me when they have pinched all my money I have saved out of hard work for looking after myself and others. I think I will take the jab now and not further this horror story.

  33. Robert Pay
    December 16, 2024

    I am increasingly unsure whether ‘national good’, as would be understood by most here, is a focus for this government. The globalist mindset is glad when nations give up authority.

  34. Francesca Skinner
    December 16, 2024

    This country should never surrender its Sovereignty again, leaving us as a vassal state where we obey Policies and Directives which are not always beneficial for our Economy. The latest Trade deal the E.U. has signed up to has taken 26 years and doesn’t even meet E.U. standards, which has me thinking, why do they insist on a Border in the Irish Sea if they’re willing to accept trade deals without meeting E.U. Standards.

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