The M 25 saved our economy. This hugely important road investment is crucial not just to the economy of London and South east but to the whole country, as traffic pours round London from and to the channel ports and other destinations from many places. My plans over the last week to speak twice in the Tonbridge area relied heavily on the M 25 working.
My journey to the Wednesday dinner started badly and got worse. Slow traffic on the M 25 meant I was behind schedule when I hit junction 9 and a warning that it would take at least 30 minutes to get from junction 9 to junction 8. I had allowed myself an extra hour for congestion. I turned off the motorway and began a complex journey on back roads which absorbed all the extra time I had allowed that had survived the first part of the M 25 slow torture.
My journey the next night to east of Tonbridge also started badly and got worse. I persevered through slow traffic to junction 6 needing to get to junction 5 to turn off onto a good trunk road. I saw then a complete standstill with delays advertised, and again made my way by back routes to get there on time. I had this time allowed 3 hours and ended up using 2 hours 40 minutes, one hour longer than the estimated time for a free flowing M 25.
All this made the car journey almost as worrying as the train journey had been. The car was , however, the better option as on both occasions despite big delays it was still quicker than the train option and it did not have the added hassle of trying to track down the taxis .It was cheaper.
None of this is acceptable or necessary. In those same queues as me wishing to keep a promise to appear and speak on time would be doctors trying to get to hospitals and patients, urgent deliveries for people and business, people going to important meetings for the government or their companies, families wanting an enjoyable day not spent in a traffic jam. Government failure to build enough good roads damages our economy and makes our lives more difficult.
It also means burning a lot more fuel and generating a lot more carbon dioxide. My outbound journey was at 48 miles per gallon and my return journey freed of delays was at 66 miles per gallon, a 37% improvement. If you are running a logistics company fuel cost is a crucial part of your business costs. Time is also important, so spending twice as long on the M 25 thanks to congestion makes goods dearer and damages efficiency. The over used M 25 capacity is crucial to our transport system. In comparison our great railway routes straight into the heart of our cities are little used with huge gaps between trains.
July 14, 2025
Good morning.
And why do you, Sir John think that there are so many more cars on the roads then say 30 or 40 years ago ? Because if you knew, or admitted to the answer, then you have to concede that the only solution is to do the opposite. We cannot just keep concreting / tarmacing over the entire country.
Reply Part of the reason is excessive migration which I have always opposed.
July 14, 2025
We cannot just keep concreting / tarmacing over the entire country.‘
That seems to be the way things are going. Huge high rise apartment blocks everywhere too. Folk in one block took developers to court & won, because developers built even bigger blocks next to them and their natural light was badly affected.
It looks horrendous to be living in some of those expensive new blocks. Gimmicks like sky pools do little to make it any better.
July 14, 2025
and don’t forget the miles upon miles of cycle-lanes to save the planet ….and concrete slabs to block roads to welcome the 20 minute cities
Its all about restricting peoples movement and not allowing freedom of movement
July 14, 2025
Much of the existing road capacity is under used outside peak hours. Self driving vehicles will make use of the under used overnight road capacity. How much longer can the UK Government delay the introduction of self driving vehicles and postpone the associated productivity gains?
July 14, 2025
The old argument of the green loons if you build more roads people with use them we have to force them to use trains, buses… which cost far more, take far longer, do not go door to door, cannot carry much luggage… some business trips I did would take two days rather than one on public transport so a hotel bill and much of it would still be by taxi which is a car but worse as double journeys for one useful one and a prof. driver needed.
This is total rubbish blocking the roads, bus lanes, bike lanes, anti-car traffic lights causes more congestion and more fuel use. Deterring driving by deliberately creating traffic congestions is moronic.
People want to get from A to B quickly and reliably not to sit in endless traffic jams created by lack of free flowing roads space and parking spaces. You can have underpasses, over passes and double decker roads. No one want to sit in their cars 24 hours a day. If the roads flow freely and the journey then takes 2 hours rather than 4 you use less road space (2 hours of it not 4 hours of it).
July 14, 2025
Reply – Reply
Indeed another estimated 10 million people in the last 20 years, no wonder roads and housing are suffering along with all of the other usual services.
I remember Nigel Farage getting hammered by many politicians and some of the press when he gave the same reasoning about 10 years or more ago.
Simple maths gives anyone the answer, no increase in land, so the density of people per square mile is higher.
July 14, 2025
@Mark B – taking major Arterial Roads out of service by inhibiting flows detract from the point of introducing the additional facility, the Motorway. If they were run as intended it wouldn’t be a case of concreting/tarmacing over the country, the motorway would be in addition too… As it stands additional facilities are seen by local councils and highway depts. as the excuse for them to ignore their jobs
July 14, 2025
Let’s apply the same logic to other things too many people shopping lets close half the shops, too many people wanting to watch live football lets halve seating capacity of all the stadium, too many people wanting to work let’s close half the factories and offices, too many wanting to see a GP or have a hip op so lets halve the numbers of GPs and surgeons, too many people wanting water, electricity and gas halve the supply of those and triple the price… a great plan for the economy & growth!
July 14, 2025
@Ll +1
July 14, 2025
Lifelogic
A great example of Political thinking, taken to extreme ?
Given the theme, you would think supporting/encouraging end of life polices may help the situation.
July 16, 2025
Or more net harm Covid “vaccines”.
July 14, 2025
Greece will suspend asylum applications for arrivals from Africa for three months, the country’s Prime Minister has said. Kyriakos Mitsotakis announced in parliament that his government would introduce the regulation from tomorrow (Thursday, July 10)…..despite being in the EU, ECHRs & the UN Global Compact for Migration
July 14, 2025
We’ve all experience that or similar.
The answer was provided by Tarmac of Wolverhampton some 25 years ago.
Build a second motorway (Toll if necessary) at Tarmacs expense above the existing motorway, it may only be able to be two lane but no more countryside destroyed, provide relief at busy times relieving stress, and an alternative during serious incidents or accidents.
It could also be restricted to cars, leaving heavy goods on the existing network, this suggestion was declined previously, I’d love to know why?
July 16, 2025
It wouldn’t need to be the entire M25 either. The most congested pinch points in West London are between the M40 junction with the M25, exits 16 north to 17 and south to Egham, and M25 exit 13. Then Brentwood to Dartford on the East side (the new Thames crossing will help that). London still relies on deliveries to function, from food to furniture, and from work vehicles to taxis. Consecutive governments favour London, though other Cities were left by all parties to wither, public transport-wise, or big events, why no Wembley of the North?
July 14, 2025
Never mind john, in a few short years traffic will be significantly reduced as the government prices us off the road. As in Wales there is no significant road building, the idea now us to make ownership of cars enviable.
Soon petrol and diesel will be rationed as there will be no domestic supply and no foreign exchange to import it
Electricity will only be available at certain times when the wind is blowing or the sun shining.
Just hang in there and all will be well.
July 14, 2025
@Ian wragg – remove private ownership to clear the highways for the Politburo, is the only way to free up the economy in this now 2 Tier Marxist Society
July 14, 2025
IW :
Correct. The long-term plan of the communist CAGW hoax and its “solution”, Net Zero, is to control the population using impoverishment and the electrification of travel and heating with smart meters. Personal transport will be severely curtailed with the forced transition to expensive and impractical evs. Not only will there be insufficient and expensive electricity generated by chaotically intermittent renewables but since 80% or more of our local grids can only supply 1-2KW/household continuously it means that only 1 house in 7 can currently charge an ev [1]. There will need to be a massive, expensive and disruptive upgrade to the local grid for evs, and even more so for heat pumps to be feasible. DESNZ and the CCC know all of this of course and it is their intention to drastically reduce the amount of traffic is why they do not intend to expand the M25.
[1] https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/82722/pdf/
July 14, 2025
But we’re saving the planet ….well giving aid money to that rich Singapore for net-zero
‘Foreign Secretary David Lammy has pledged £70 million of UK taxpayers’ money to support Singapore’s clean energy transition during an official visit today. -GBNews’
July 14, 2025
Glen
I think he gave away another £94 million to another Country only last week, anyone would think we are rolling in money given how much they simply give away.
July 15, 2025
O.R
I suspect the high rise buildings that seem to be popping up are to keep a larger number of people in a smaller area, contained and unable to travel. (Where would cars be stored in high rise blocks of flats?) 15 mins cities?
July 14, 2025
20 minute cities baby 20 minute cities
July 14, 2025
I know junction 9, the Leatherhead turn off, very well.
I often prefer to avoid the M25 as much as possible and use non motorway roads if I wish to get to, say, the M1 or Gatwick, or Heathrow.
You say :-
‘ All this made the car journey almost as worrying as the train journey had been. The car was , however, the better option as on both occasions despite big delays it was still quicker than the train option and it did not have the added hassle of trying to track down the taxis .It was cheaper.’
However, I find the driving itself very stressful and tiring. It is often preferable to let someone else bear the strain of handling the journey, while I just look out the window or read.
July 14, 2025
I know junction 9 well too. When we go to Epsom we time are departure so that we are in the junction 9 area in the early hours.
Departures from Epsom are governed by the same criteria.
I have no idea how people who live in the area manage ordinary, everyday appointments.
July 14, 2025
I used to live in that area. One of the reasons I left for Dorset was the plans for “development” in my former area. J10 of the M25 (A3) is currently being upgraded to increase capacity and improve traffic flow. It was one of the conditions for the proposed new town to be built on the old Wisley Airfield. So in due course traffic levels on the M25 will be increased and more vehicles will be crawling along and making the stretch to the J15 (M4) and J9 even worse.
July 14, 2025
Donna
Much income, and many journeys to Wisley Gardens lost in the last 3 years due to work on this junction, think something like £6 million a year as a figure has been put on it.
Huge delays all round, seems to be taking years to complete the proposals.
July 15, 2025
LA,
There are 406 & 418 buses every quarter of an hour to and from Epsom to Kingston from early til late. There are also buses from Morden and Chessington. Or, if you want you can use the train (although Londoners will have to pay from Zone 6 -so a free bus is better).
July 14, 2025
I agree that the M25 is now not big enough. Expanding it would however pull in more traffic from the neighbourhood. It might therefore be better to expand parallel roads, for example add a 6 lane road from High Wycombe to Guildford, which would reduce the pressure on the most used parts.
July 14, 2025
The M25 was not really large enough even when they built it. Make much of it double decker with an upper deck for lighter vehicles like cars. Huge lack of road tunnel and bridge capacity over the Thames East of London too and has been for many years.
July 14, 2025
David in Kent – then again how many driver are just junction hoping, get on at H/Wycombe get of at get off at Loudwater, Beaconsfield or Gerrards Cross because the local councils have in reduced and hindered the flows on the major arterial road the A40. The A40 which used to cope with traffic going from London to Oxford, Cheltenham and on to the docks at Milford Haven, the route is still there but the councils have blocked even for local traffic going from one side of their town to another
July 14, 2025
I’ve parked on the M25 many times. Unfortunately it’s the only car park in UK where you have to remain in your car because all the cars occasionally have to move and you can never quite work out why.
July 14, 2025
I have to use the M25 four times a week from Sussex to Essex as the train takes 3 1/2 hours and costs 3x as much as by car. When not congested the journey door to door takes 1 hour 15 minutes but when there is any accident or the Thames Crossing has been overloaded it can take an hour or more longer. The queue can be 10 miles long to the tunnel. Although the tunnel and bridge were paid for by tolls years ago, the toll is going to be increased from £2.50 to £3.50. Three are no plans to build another bridge. Also, on any motorway, any major accident results in the police closing the road for many hours while they do an investigation. Last time this happened on the M23 I was driving around in circles tryto find a way around and noticed that theyvhad a large van parked on the empty motorway which was called their Bronze unit. I expect they have vans for a Silver and Gold unit too in case the incident is even worse. And of course uther smart parts of the motorway usually have signs saying that there has been an incident and a lane is closed, only to find that the incident is someone broken down and waiting for help in one of the refuge laybyes. Then the queue can be miles long.
July 14, 2025
Sir John, as you said the other day, the government kept allowing more people into the country without providing enough infrastructure. Roads are yet another example.
On top of that is the fact the government – especially recent governments – is terrrible at running things. It’s a disgrace that money is taken from us and the promised services are not delivered (roads, health, education etc).
If the government were a shop or business, it would have gone bust a long time ago.
There is no point in the government keep saying “let us do it” and then letting us down all the time.
July 14, 2025
“governments terrible at running things” well it is not their money not they who get the benefits so what do they care? They are running thinks for their wages, perks, nice offices, gold plated pensions and their personal convenience not to benefit you irritating and demanding taxpayers after all.
July 14, 2025
Our government is about to subsidies chinese imported EVs by another £68million …..they could’ve spent that money fixing pot-holes
July 14, 2025
The fuel cost argument is correct but unfortunate. It would not apply to electric cars so could be used to support Miliband’s insane Net Zero. I have never understood why UK’s Net Zero banned hybrid cars. They produce very good consumption figures compared with petrol only cars of similar size. Most traffic in UK is urban or an equivalent, like a blocked motorway. Both fuel consumption per mile, and emissions per gallon consumed are higher in urban conditions with an all petrol car and tyhe hybrid advantage is relatively even greater in these conditions. And the voluntary uptake of hybrids would have been much faster than the uptake of all electric cars, giving a faster drop in overall vehicle emissions. Hybrids make a lot of sense. It is not too late for UK to change to allow hybrids as they are manufactured in quantity for other counrtries with more sensible policies.
July 14, 2025
@ Peter Gardener
‘I have never understood why UK’s Net Zero banned hybrid cars’
There is no “Net Zero” ban on hybrid cars and there never has been. Do try and do some research before you post crap on this prestigious blog
July 14, 2025
‘The UK government has confirmed a ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, but has relaxed the rules to allow the sale of hybrid vehicles until 2035’
So the hybrid is still scheduled, but for 2035
July 14, 2025
Ver harsh comment SG because there has been a recent stay of execution for hybrid vehicles which were to be banned in 2030 but now will be bbanned in 2035.
How kind of all you green fanatics.
July 15, 2025
There’s no ban YET. It kicks in in 2035.
July 14, 2025
Peter
The problem is hybrids are more expensive that ICE cars because you are paying for two engines, which rather negates any fuel savings.
The big factor no one has mentioned far is the affect all of these delays on Commercial Drivers Hours, which sometimes means they legally have to stop driving before they get to their destination, or risk being fined/banned.
July 14, 2025
The issue is not car fuel consumption but trucks. You think electric trucks will be the answer?
July 14, 2025
No
July 14, 2025
Well you might think a plug in hybrid a good compromise short journeys up to circa 25miles on the much smaller and cheaper battery but no range issue if further distance is needed occasionally.
But the battery gets more charge discharge cycles and does not last as long. You have to plug it in each time and if you do that maths each time you plug it in and do the few miles on battery might only save you only circa 50p of similar. Is it worth the effort of plugging it in or installing the charge point? Plus that is not really a saving just less tax on electricity than petrol so this is cost to government in loss of tax.
Then we have the extra capital costs, extra weight, extra finance costs and depreciation hen are more complex so more to fail and maintain. The depreciation of the battery (over £1 a day) and the cost of the charge points will more than outweigh any 50p per plug in savings.
July 14, 2025
Read the hybrid battery warranty details and the small print! The manufacturers know the battery limitations full well. And it can easily cost up to £6,000 to replace them and with a new battery warranty. Extra fire risks too for a hybrid over a pure petrol or diesel vehicle and higher insurance and tyre wear due to slight extra weight of the battery and motors!
July 14, 2025
Hybrids don’t really make much sense especially in congested traffic. There are two drive modes adding extra weight and complexity for very little gain in fuel consumption. A modern ICE is very clean and efficient and much cheaper.
July 14, 2025
+1
July 14, 2025
Hybrid consumption can be slightly better over all in start stop town driving but often slightly worse on A roads and motorways. Little gain over all and that gain is main a tax loss for the government as more tax on petrol than electricity. Certainly does not save enough to justify the additional cost, maintenance, insurance, fire risk and depreciation.
July 14, 2025
Regenerative braking if a car is driven sensibly recovers rather little power in reality by the time the electricity is generated, charges the battery and then is used again about 50% is lost and also this process depreciated the expensive battery more quickly and the mechanism adds extra weight and complexity.
July 14, 2025
Only generate much in start stop traffic but if driven sensibly you do not brake much very often anyway so the energy is not used in the first place so cannot be recovered!
July 14, 2025
The M25 is not too small. The population is far too large.
Anyway, Motorways should be built as SEPARATE roads with speeds for each lane being 30mph, then 40mph, then 60mph outwards. These roads should become Motorways only when their two paths are opposite and parallel. The main difference is that the roads should join at their SLOW sides, with the 60mph lanes furthest apart, because:
• 33% extra road space is gained.
• The presently wasted metal barrier lane could be used for emergency stopping in both directions.
No change would be needed to the present right hand drive motors, driving on the left, overtaking on the right, entering and leaving the motorway on the left, as now.
July 14, 2025
Those of us who grew up in Britain from the 1950s through to the 2000s experienced public sector activities that worked. They were not always perfect, but they could be relied upon. Teachers taught useful subjects needed for life. Students went to university to study and experience a wider understanding of their preferred subjects which again, had a positive impact on their life and future successes. Roads were generally in good order, drains were regularly cleared and rivers dredged to avoid flash floods from local weather impacts. Hedges along roadsides were cut back, so road signs could be read and road works were conducted with an urgency and minimum disruption to road users. Police concentrated on reducing crimes and knew who the criminals were in their area. That helped control the lawbreakers. Councils did civic work not moral crusades, they also used their limited budgets carefully always having contingency funds in reserve. Energy provision was seen as a fundamental need with oil and gas exploration in he north sea,. Every village hosted a fuel garage and every small town hosting several. Coal fired power stations kept industry going and growing aided by the newly developed nuclear power plants . The reliability of those energy choices was seen as key to industrial productivity and wealth creation.
Then in 1997 it all changed, the following quarter century unpicked and destroyed all the stability of the past post war period purposely done by government policy design.
Now our towns and cities are unsafe unrecognisable foreign lands. with alien activities conducted in a fug of strange scented airs.
Car wash stations proliferate though no one quite knows why? Barber shops are multiplying at such a rate hair never seems to be cut, yet still more barber shops open with flash gold fittings everywhere. Beggars on the street are common, roads are left to decay past the point of use, rail services are unaffordable for all but the expensed traveller. The banks have all closed and postal services unreliable and expensive. Councils are all bankrupt and do everything in their portfolio of secrecy to avoid mentioning it. Their freedom to borrow has left the rate payers and ultimately the tax payers on the hook to pay for closed services yet pensions and costs soar out of step with the economy of the nation.
What could possibly have brought us from the swinging sixties to the dystopian 21st century? What level of stupidity could have resulted in this disaster? How much lower can it go before socialism is seen for the failure it is?
We have to get back to wealth creation because wealth distribution has failed. It has consumed all the nation’s reserves.
Now wealth holders are leaving the UK before their hard earned reserves are taken away by socialists too.
Welcome to twenty first century Britain.
July 14, 2025
M25 capacity could be increased immediately perhaps by closing some of the access and exit roads, thereby denying it to local traffic that makes use of the road more, so I understand, than was expected by its designers.
July 14, 2025
The M25 is too small because of a lack of foresight and investment from the outset and misunderstanding of the extent of future car ownership among families.
All motorways should be built with future capacity in mind and land should be purchased alongside the road for future proofing.The M25 should have been viewed as a 6 lane carriageway throughout its length from the start.It’s now too late and we have a massive congestion build up during parts of the morning afternoon and evenings and pinch points where traffic delays happen at all times.
There is little we can do about it now and building more roads to have them congested again in 7/10 years time doesn’t seem the answer;
We should consider encouraging drivers to travel at night so the full use of the M25 is spread over a 24 hour time period which would mean road pricing at peak travel times or restricting the use of commercial vehicles between the hours of 9pm and 5am only
July 14, 2025
We’ve had two decades of Uni-Party Governments flooding the country with immigrants, with the vast majority settling in the south east. Most of those immigrants were young and, if they didn’t have a car when they arrived, they would have acquired one as soon as they could afford it.
No wonder the motorways, particularly the M25 are overloaded. All of our motorways and other major trunk roads have been operating considerably over design capacity for years, but thanks to EU regulations, Government policy and the Eco Nutters (I’m thinking of the likes of Swampy and pals trying to prevent construction of the Newbury Bypass) it’s an incredibly difficult, slow and expensive process to build new roads, or even expand existing ones.
Congestion on the M25 is largely a consequence of mass immigration, but when Farage pointed out well over a decade ago that the M4 corridor was being overloaded thanks to immigration he was howled down by the Uni-Party goons who were overseeing the policy of mass immigration. But he was right …. at that time traffic on the M4 was growing at the rate of about 3% a year.
The proposed Lower Thames Crossing from Kent to Essex has finally got the go-ahead with construction possibly starting in 2026 and completion in the early 2030s (IF they get the necessary private investment and nicely vague so there’s plenty of opportunity for slippage). “Six years … not bad” you might think. But actually, it’s already been in the planning for at least 10 years. By the time it is open, unless there is a drastic change in policy, another 8 million immigrants will have been shoe-horned into England. Most of them will settle in the south east and any potential benefit the LTC may have had on traffic levels on the existing M25 will have been wiped out.
https://nationalhighways.co.uk/our-roads/lower-thames-crossing/
July 15, 2025
And, Donna, with their free driving lessons, these illegals will also be using the roads!
Will they be given a free car on completion of their driving test?
July 14, 2025
Sir JR, As a resident of Kent and reguIar user of the M25, I could type a two hour read on why this road is not as efficient as it should be.
However, count yourself lucky you didn’t try to use it a month or more ago. The numpties that monitor this motorway decided to impose a 50 MPH limit camera controlled for “system test” ??
They managed to increase congestion, increase journey times, increase driver frustration, decrease fuel efficiency. All for no discernable reason.
Thanfully it’s now returned to 70MPH.
July 14, 2025
With modern cars and safety systems, our motorway speed should be increased to 85mph ……given the opportunity; everyone already drives at 80mph
July 14, 2025
Sir John
The M25 no longer serves what most of us thought was its purpose, to divert/speed traffic around and away from London, traffic that was essentially going from one county to another, one end of the country to the other.
Instead, the M25 is used for local traffic to jump from one junction to the next because the local authorities encourage it by not updating their local infrastructure to meet their rising population, so they see it as their own cost saving bypass for their own use. It is a cost ‘free’ way of them moving their own inhabitants from one side of the town to the other, so much so they inhibit their own local traffic.
Sir John, think locally, how free flowing is the A4, or even the A30, the capacity, the flow has been reduced and inhibited by local authorities yet they serve bigger conurbation than ever. A4 reading Calcott to Woodley once a free-flowing major arterial road, now blocked by the Council forcing drivers onto the M4. The queue to get off at junction 11 in the morning goes back to junction 10 the very junction they got on. Essential the bulk of the A30 has now been removed from maps. Look at the original route of the A2 – Old Kent Road, Watling Street, perfectly straight and true, from the top of shooters hill looking east you can see the lights on each hill lining up the road for at least 20miles, now on the ground the route has bee blocked to the flow of even local traffic
Ideally for the M25 to get back to what I thought was its purpose they should remove junctions that don’t connect it to other motorways, or at least the major arteries A1, A2, A3. On reflection that should be the case for all Motorways, make them fit for purpose as to what they should be major connecting routes not local authority lazy cost savings facilities. They are all going to have to face the consequence some time, unless that is the real reason to drive road traffic into oblivion.
If you think the M25 is bad, take a drive around the other great roundabout that is permanently clogged M6-M62-M1 all clogged by junction hoppers. As council block their own through routes
July 14, 2025
One wonders if an authoritarian government would do better. Is our democratic structure the problem?
July 14, 2025
The M25 is not the only Motorway that is no longer fit for its purpose; try going around Birmingham at almost any time, driving up the M6 to Carlisle, or the M1 to Leeds.
Rail should be the preferred option for any city centre to city centre journey, but it cannot be, because as you have illustrated, you just cannot rely on it.
July 14, 2025
Perhaps your dinner visits are prescient Sir John. Ponder the upcoming Lower Thames Crossing. Extend south and pass a little north of Tonbridge before turning westwards passing south of Reigate before joining an extension to Guildford and the west.
A long job, we have no money nor any prospect of any money. The legal battles over newts, frogs and toads and barristers will be expensively fought for decades and parliaments will come and go. Then of course all the filling stations will have to have massive amounts of electricity and pylons and cables at huge cost for leccy cars.
So probably not, perhaps a few dribs and drabs but little else. So some might get built by say 2100 by which time the world may be a bit short of fossil fuels anyway and cars and lorries a thing of the past. Ho hum.
July 14, 2025
The fuel cost argument is correct but also applies to electric cars. It takes a bust of energy, whether from petrol, diesel or electricity, to start any vehicle from stationary. In slow moving traffic it is more fuel efficient to keep going at 5 mph if possible than to stop, accelerate to 10mph or more, then stop again. Agreed that is not always possible and leaving a gap almost certainly means a car from the next lane will pull into your space. Keeping going slowly without stopping when approaching traffic lights, a roundabout, pedestrian crossing etc, and hoping the blockage clears for you in time is the secret of fuel efficiency.
My hybrid/petrol car shows me the mpg, I don’t know if the same, ie mpkWh, is shown on an electric car.
July 14, 2025
When we lived in Maidenhead, we went to the city regularly for social and business events.
Now we live in Dorset and are a lot older, we never go into London for all the reasons one can imagine.
We do, however, drive into Europe regulary so we do use the M25. We rarely have a problem because we choose to drive at times when there is less traffic about. Mid afternoon is quite OK, or better, we drive in the evening to catch a cheaper overnight ferry. Getting through Dover customs and passport control in the evenings is far quicker as well. A late night ferry also avoides the terrible traffic problems around Antwerpen or Brussels if we are driving into Germany. If we are going South, we use the Portsmouth ferry to Le Havre.
Generally speaking, the traffic problems in Northern Europe are worse than in the UK at this time of year. Only last week we drove South West from Poland to Germany and that 3 hour journey took seven hours ! The average speed was 46km/h.
PS : what car do you have that does 66mpg ?
July 14, 2025
The M25 isn’t too small …its just got to many entry/exit junctions
July 14, 2025
@Glen cullen – it (the motorway) is not being permitted to do the intended job, the extra junctions are solely there so local traffic can hop between them. The local councils use the motorways as the reason for not developing thier own infrastructure to meet thier own population growth. Motorways are no longer for countrywide communication just a local hop.
July 14, 2025
I, too, have experienced unexplained delays on the rare occasions I use the M25. But it is equally bad up north. The M62 is increasingly congested around the Leeds and Manchester exits, getting to Manchester airport on time is so risky that my sons now stay overnight close to the airport before their holiday flights. Most of the time, it is sheer volume of traffic that slows journeys down, but an accident can bring the motorway to a complete stop.
While it is not the only problem, the massive increase in population because of immigration must contribute to it.
I think we have imported approximately 5,000,000 people in the last 25 years, most of whom will want a car to get around. So, no wonder we have congestion on major routes!
July 14, 2025
….and the highway agency just loves imposing the ‘temp’ speed restrictions
July 14, 2025
I had an interesting experience recently on the A46 between the M40 and the Coventry bypass. It goes through an area of works for HS2, labelled as being for its electricity supply. A lane was coned off in each direction for probably a couple of miles, leaving two lanes each way. But there was no reduced speed limit or cameras checking for average speeds. The traffic simply carried on at speeds between 60 and 70mph without any problem, and with no road rage responses on emerging from the coned section.
Reaching the bypass I encountered a fixed 50mph limit that the majority of drivers were ignoring. With low traffic in the middle of the day it could perfectly well have sustained 70mph that some were taking it at. Maybe in rush hour it would be different (or would have been when Ryton boasted a major car plant).
July 14, 2025
132 criminals were smuggled, in plain sight, into the UK yesterday on the 13th July from France…
July 14, 2025
They’re not “smuggled”. They’re invited into the country with collection in the Channel (often in French waters) by our own Border Force, given free 4 star hotel (or a house) accomodation, free healthcare, £40/week pocket money, free entertainment, training (eg driving lessons) and travel, free translation and legal services plus the freedom to roam our streets (even outside schools) and take black market jobs. The PM is obviously quite happy for this to continue. They don’t get this 5 star treatment in France despite France also being a signatory to the ECHR. So why aren’t they just given tents and food and kept in secure camps at least until they can be identified?
July 14, 2025
+1
July 15, 2025
OR
Indeed our Border force and Navy are complicit with helping illegal activity.
July 15, 2025
According to local residents, there are also boats that wonder in, the occupants disembark, wander up the beach and climb into waiting vans.
These are not included in the escorted boat occupants’ numbers!
July 14, 2025
What we are dealing with is a perverted mindset. The mess regarding travel is just one of the symptoms. There are many others, for instance the old, working copper cable landline phones are to be abolished. They work without electrical current.
I have the replacement. FTTP and a WiFi phone system. The phones don’t work. They don’t work in businesses and they don’t work in old houses with thick walls. They don’t work, in my case, period. Mine have been down 4 times each failure taking between a week and a fortnight to recover. They are down atm. There is a dialling tone (although it’s two keys strokes before you can dial a number (1. Get a line 2. Dial) and the phone rings when somebody calls, but there is no sound and an error message ‘media error’ is displayed. It’s a central error and they seem unable to fix it.
So all this massive spending and innovation by half educated beginners will lead to a total collapse of communication.
Welcome to the post-modern world. Thank goodness we still know how to make candles – although once we are all vegans … no candles.
July 14, 2025
The old phones did not work without electricity, the electrical supply comes from the exchange which have batteries to sustain use in emergencies. This doesn’t work over optical fibre where each end must be independently powered.
July 14, 2025
Observation the M25 was widened between 15 & 21 many years back with 4 lanes in each direction and still maintaining an emergency lane/hard shoulder. Did it make a difference? Of course, not.
The over-taking lane, that’s all the lanes on the right have in modern culture been termed the fast lanes(even by the Police) people either use the outside lane because they are ‘fast’ or in-case they need to overtake someone a few miles along the road. So for each additional lane you seen no reduction in hold-ups
Reply Not true. Extra lanes take 3xtra traffic. Just look at delays when you take a lane or 2 out of use.
July 14, 2025
@Reply – my observations are similar to @mickc below. People don’t use the motorways and their lanes as intended. You yourself will have noted there is more traffic in the ‘with it phrase’ the ‘fast’ lane on the M4 even though the hard-shoulder has been absorbed as part of the ‘smart-motorway’ system – it is empty most of the time. There isn’t 4 lanes of flowing traffic. extra lanes are just used for space to park when it all grinds to a halt.
I am sure there are many with more experience than me, but I don’t consider myself the average road user when I regularly cover 60-70,000 miles a year around England
July 14, 2025
The question I have asked myself is, how can you increase the capacity of the M25 , or any other motorway, without increasing the footprint or cost of its real estate.
An overhead six lane motorway supported on central pillars or on flying buttresses, anchored in the central reservation or on the motorway edges. Something similar already exists on the M5 in its south west traverse of Birmingham.
It would need to be restricted in use to cars and motorcycles. It would need to be modular factory constructed and shipped to the site for erection. There is no shortage of construction engineers who can think outside the box to overcome all the obvious challenges. Choice of home produced steel would be critical. Beauty of design is also most important.
Looking at HS2 as an example, I would tender among the large Japanese civil engineering companies at the design stage to ensure maximum bang for our buck. It is sad but no U.K. company stands out for such a project.
I cannot see such a project getting off the ground in the current U.K. political climate.
Reply Key issue is disruption of existing motorway to create holes and underpinnings for the large weight bearing supports.
July 15, 2025
R to R
Very true. Whatever is done to improve one’s experience of the M25 is going to cause disruption. The dreaded cone has a half life to rival uranium and is more prevelent than the illegal immigrant. I am only really saying that whatever we do must be carefully thought out, value analysed, as must the way we do it. For instance, consider a system of only working from 23.00hrs to 05.00hrs and anything other than cones. Whatever is done there will be shared pain. Recall how swiftly the japanese recovered from their last earthquake and understand why I advocate them for such a project.
July 14, 2025
From Guido
Angela Rayner presented the ‘English Devolution and Community Empowerment Bill’, currently at its second reading. Nestled within the bill is Schedule 27, a provision giving local authorities the power to create a list of so-called ‘Community Assets’. Once a property is on this list, it can only be sold to a “preferred community buyer”…
July 14, 2025
@ Ian B – recall the Localism Act 2011 introduced the “community right to bid” by way of the ”assets of community value” process. It was of limited effect as asset owners could still sell to whomsoever they chose, just after a delay.
Per MHCLG’s guidance on the Bill, an independent valuer may now determine the sale price if not agreed between the parties and a community group buyer has more time, twelve months, to raise the funds but an owner can demand a progress check after six months. The asset definition is extended to include ” those that support the economy of a community and those that were historically of importance to the community” and some sports grounds are to be included automatically.
The Bill would not seem to be the end of civilization as we know it that Guido suggests.
July 14, 2025
Part of the congestion problem is caused by permanent “middle laners”, who just stay there even though the inside lane is almost empty. “Keep left unless overtaking” is the rule…seldom observed.
July 14, 2025
And seldom punished, if ever.
July 14, 2025
mickc :
I somehow think you do not use the M25 where almost all 3 lanes are full almost all the time (normal hours of travel). There is also the case of Junction 5 (Sevenoaks clockwise) on the M25 where there are signs instructing those vehicles who want the A21 to move into the middle to outer lanes whilst the M25 turns off to go towards Gatwick. This instruction is 2 miles or more before the M25/A21 split which is why Sevenoaks drivers have been described as the worst for driving in the middle lane. The same occurs at junction 5 going anti-clockwise where again the M25 again turns off left leaving straight ahead for the M26. So again, slower drivers who want the M26 find themselves in the middle and outer lanes. I would also say that since lane changing is a dangerous manoevre… particularly when other drivers in a hurry like to weave in and out of traffic to gain the odd place in the queue…the less lane changing the safer for all……
July 15, 2025
The signs are 2 miles in advance because of design requirements – to give drivers plenty of time to safely make the necessary manoeuvre to get themselves in the right lane for their onward journey. The drivers who move into the correct lane and therefore appear to be “lane blocking” have made a safe manoeuvre and are probably travelling at a safe speed. It’s those who leave it to the last minute to get themselves into the correct lane, and probably make the manoeuvre at speed, who cause the problems (and accidents).
July 15, 2025
Donna
👍🏻 I’ve noticed that too!
July 14, 2025
@mickc – there is a sign somewhere on the network that reminds drivers to do that and they do. Then you get those including the police that talk of fast and slow lanes. We end up with less than half the road is used
July 15, 2025
The only times the M25 has so little traffic that it can be accommodated in one lane are the small hours at major holidays like Christmas. The rules for driving it need to be different. Except when junction layouts demand it, trucks should not be beyond the second lane. Bear in mind that the Western section is now 5 lanes each way. Otherwise traffic needs to spread out across the lanes so that reasonable distances between vehicles are achieved. Through traffic with 2 or more junctions before exit should avoid the left hand lane, and in the 5 lane section should probably be in lanes 3-5, and maintaining a chosen lane. The idea is to try to create space for joining traffic, and for traffic preparing to take an exit. Mostly, traffic does actually do this. The other rule should be to keep up with lane speed, and here there are frequent failures, ranging from trucks with speed limiters trying to overtake and lane blocking through poor drivers and limp home EVs travelling well below posted speed limits, causing extra lane changing to overtake (or undertake). Limp home EVs should join trucks in the left hand lane.
When the traffic is flowing freely driver frustration levels drop, and so do accident rates and traffic jams caused by tailgating and reactions braking. Minimising lane changing and creating larger gaps by spreading across lanes also leads to a more relaxed driving experience without the need to be consrantly monitoring all directions at once for traffic that might cut in front of you dangerously.
It’s also worth pointing out that lanes heavily used by trucks are subject to rapid road wear which can result in dangerous potholes. These are easier to spot and avoid if the inter vehicle distance is greater.
Of course there are frequent times when the M25 becomes a car park. Often the result of playing with the trainset of overhead gantry signs and speed limits unnecessarily. The M42 can be worse, with speed limits dropping to 40mph through junctions leading to drivers watching their speed and not the road with consequent accidents, of which i have seen several. Much better to set s sensible overall speed – studies have shown that when the traffic is extremely dense 50mph provides maximum traffic throughput, but at lesser density higher speeds are better – and leave drivers to watch the traffic around them and react accordingly.
Even on a low traffic volume route I consider it common courtesy to move into the second lane if I can do so easily to make it easier for joining traffic at a junction.
July 14, 2025
And seldom punished, if ever.
July 14, 2025
SirJ, good to see you on GBNews tonight ….a voice of reason
July 15, 2025
Yes, how on earth has the number of cars increased to such a vast extent?
That really is an insoluble conundrum.
Particularly as the state and local government has performed such prodigious feats in improving the quantity, quality and advanced networking of public transport systems.