The Lib Dems tell us Trump tariffs will damage the world economy and harm our trade. They then tell us to join the EU Customs Union to put a whole load of tariffs on trade coming from outside the EU. They say this would supercharge our growth. This stupid contradiction skewers their argument and reminds us how absurd the idea is that joining the Customs Union would make us richer.
We did try all this over a period of 48 years.During the first 20 years in the EEC our average annual growth rate slowed compared to the 20 years prior to entry. For the two decades after 1992 when we were in the “ completed” single market as well as the Custom Union, our annual growth rate slowed even further. There is no sign in any of the numbers of any boost to growth or living standards from joining.Indeed, in the run up to 1992 the EU policy of belonging to their Exchange Rate Mechanism gave us first a rapid inflation to be followed by a deep recession.
The UK is benefitting from Brexit by the removal of all tariffs on imports of things we cannot make or grow for ourselves, and from materials and components needed to add value through our manufacture. Why re impose all these tariffs driving up prices for UK consumers and making manufacturing even more uncompetitive.?
This government has completed the negotiations on the India Free Trade Agreement and inherited the Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement. We would have to tear these up if we joined the EU Custom Union. Why antagonise so many countries in the fastest growing part of the world?
The UK has negotiated a less penal tariff settlement with the USA than the EU. Why throw that away?
The Lib Dems rely on the National Bureau of Economic Research study which says the UK has lost 6-8% of potential GDP. If they had read it they would see the last thing to do to speed our growth rate would be to join the EU. The loss of potential comes from comparing us to the US and other faster growing economies. The study leaves out slower growing Germany, France and other EU countries as they are embarrassingly worse than sluggish UK. We needed to leave the EU to try to narrow the gap with the US growth rate. EU taxes and regulations have put the EU into a dreadful slow lane compared to the US.
Imposing a whole load of tariffs and paying the EU a shed load of money did not boost our growth when in the EU. It would be an unaffordable folly to try to do it again.
December 2, 2025
Perhaps it’s time for the EU and AU to join into a Super-Union?
They already have ‘open borders’.
If blocs of countries are good, as the Lib Dem’s say, and the EU agrees that the bigger the bloc the better (that’s why they want Ukraine obviously), then the Super- Union is the fastest way to improve everything overnight.
Britain could soon reach the staggering statistics being achieved by Zimbabwe, where everyone is a billionaire and lives in a ‘mansion-taxable’ property, even if it is made of mud and straw.
As a bonus the obesity crisis will be cured too.
Bless the LibDems and Greens, I think they should be sent on a fact finding mission, time unlimited.
December 2, 2025
Indeed.. one only has to look at the failure to reach agreement over the UK’s participatiom in the EU arms fund as mercifully we rejected their outrageous fee demands of 6 to 7 billion to be involved..
We are seen as a cash cow by Brussels in every way of course.. on top of giving away valuable concessions for nothing in recent “resets”.
Fortunately, enough people refuse to take the Lib Dems seriously. They are at a political high water mark currently after benefitting from the split right wing vote – the only way is down.
December 2, 2025
Joining the CU would no doubt cine with a hefty joining fee mandated by France. We would also have to habs over a large portion of the tariffs collected and pay the oenal tariffs to the USA.
No doubt free movement would be a condition and maybe even joining the euro.
Reform only have to declare that any agreement by these cowboys will be immediately cancelled and that will kick that into touch.
Yes, the limp dumbs and greens are inherently stupid but there are stupid people who continue to vote for them. We get what we voted for.
December 2, 2025
@Andrew Jones – the EU has an open border to the UK as far as its involvement in UK defence projects go. The EU provide the bulk of the steel required for our defence projects, the Tories cancelled the UK’s ability to produce quality steel. The UK submarine fleet is French steel, and control electronics, the Spanish and the Polish supply a big part of our warships. What some think of UK Missiles the so-called ‘Storm Shadow’ are French made, so on and so on.
Yet the UK is NOT demanding the EU or its Nations to contribute to a UK arms fund, we give them open access
December 2, 2025
Ian B
Can you imagine Trump (or even Macron) allowing such one sided trade ?
Our Politicians are just so bloody clueless in our Country it beggars belief.
December 2, 2025
@Berkshire Alan – they are stupid at one level, but they serve those that empowered them. Then there is stupid and stupid.
World Trade should just simply be reciprocal, those like the EU that weaponise Trade for self gain are the ones taking thier war to all nations.
Then again are our end stupid, nieve, or is it part of the political ideology plan to reset the UK and it’s people to be compliant to thier control
December 2, 2025
Storm Shadow is built from components from UK, France and Italy. Final assembly is at Stevenage. Please research before you post.
December 2, 2025
There were enough Lib Dems in Sir John’s former constituency to elect an MP who was not a Conservative.
December 2, 2025
We all know it’s nothing to do with economics but a political drive towards the Fabian dream of world government run by lawyers.
December 2, 2025
My thoughts too. Nothing to do with economic growth or stability and everything to do with ensuring we are no longer a distinct nation, but a region to be managed from Brussels.
That’s likely where such as the Lib Dems leader sees their future.
Roaming the halls of Brussels with nothing much to do except rubber stamp some new directive they know nothing of, and care even less about its effects back home.
Good pay and perks, and the EU mafia to cover your incompetence.
December 2, 2025
+1
December 2, 2025
Seems so, but the Libdims have been consistently wrong on every issue all my life. Even relative to Labour and the Con-socialists. But then Heath took us in without even having a referendum, Thatcher and ERM dope John Major buried us into the EU even further, the dire Net Zero Theresa May even tried to get round the leave vote with her (and most of the Tory Parties) leave means remain in all but name betrayal. Needless to say she was elevated to the Lords for this attempted betrayal.
December 2, 2025
Dave M
Michelle
✔️ Agreed!
December 2, 2025
99.99% of people won’t know about the incorrect conclusion from the NBER study. It is probably a deliberate misrepresentation by the Libdems, to support their program and solidify their target audience’s europhile sentiment. Such is politics these days.
December 2, 2025
Good morning
There is only one country that I know of that is part of Customs Union but not part of the EU itself. And that is Turkey. And it hates it.
Being part of this EU Customs Union restricts your ability to negotiate with non-EU countries. Turkey are only part of it because a lot of their trade is with the EU and, they are hopeful of becoming a member of the EU. So Turkey is looking in the opposite direction to the UK.
I do not blame them for trying. But I do blame them for not letting BREXIT time to work.
December 2, 2025
Totally agree and why blame the Conservatives we all voted for it. Yes the deal is not the best but you have to have a cut off point. No mention of when they tried to screw us on Covid vaccine
December 2, 2025
Just like the Labour party the Lib Dems are clueless, useless and hopeless. Both parties, aided and abetted by a faction of the Conservative party, have sought to frustrate and thereby squander the potential offered by the Brexit vote. Like Labour they offer no credible solutions to the acute problems facing the UK.
December 2, 2025
The LibDems are wrong on most important things. SJR’s 48-year-span example and other evidence shown reveal their crass contradiction for all to see. Their numbers in parliament resulted not from attraction of some positive quality of their likely performance, but from voters being negative and unwilling to support other parties in the last election. So many of the LibDems are anti-democratic, opposing the will of the the people who enabled our freedom by Brexit.
December 2, 2025
the prime minister himself is saying that we should rejoin the EU
December 2, 2025
Hopefully not Prime Minister much longer.
December 2, 2025
Hardly a recommendation Iain, but then I think you know that !
December 2, 2025
With or with 10 nebulous tests so he doesn’t actually have to take a decision?
December 2, 2025
@iain gill – that is why he is contriving wreaking-ball policies and taxes to bring us to our knees. He doesn’t like having a democratic parliament he is looking for a free-loading ego trip with other outside of the Country doing the heavy lifting
December 2, 2025
It would not be unreasonable to say the LibDems have an ideological attachment to the EU. It is pat of their one world belief. They do not seek to re-join because of the economic potential or gain that would or would not bring. The just want to remove national identity to enable unified world citizenship as championed by the UN. They have a complete belief that world governance via the UN would be a positive situation. They do not recognise the danger of allowing unelected bureaucrats unlimited power to orchestrate society. They do not consider the EU Commission a threat to freedom or democracy because they do not value those things at the national level.
The mindset of the LibDems is best seen by the behaviour of their leader. He believes Net Zero is the eleventh commandment and his level of statesmanship is best witnessed by observing him falling into the sea or lake or wherever they have arranged the camera crew to record his mighty deeds of leadership.
The kindest thing to say about the LibDems is they are suffering Stockholm syndrome and are desperate to return to the loving care of their EU captors. They liked being kidnapped by the EU bureaucrats because it removed all responsibility from them, while maintaining access to tax payer funding for their personal life style choices.
They are not a serious political Party.
December 2, 2025
As you note it is odd to pick out the Customs Union as the part of the EU to rejoin – all other trade deals like those with India and TPP ripped up overnight, higher USA tariffs immediately imposed, no ability to carry out trade talks with any other country, and no doubt a multi-billion annual membership fee. One good thing would be they’d have to remove VAT from private school fees.
December 2, 2025
@Roy Grainger – 100% agreed. But it would appear the bulk of Parliament agree with them, they are all re-moaners still fighting Brexit and the People. The hate the idea of being part of the World, the wider World. Free-loading and having unelected unaccountable bureaucrats telling them what the can and cannot do appeals to their ego and personal self-gratification
December 2, 2025
ripping up the deal with india would be very much in our interests. closer ties with Europe would not. stop french and Spanish boats fishing our waters asap.
December 2, 2025
I wonder why the libdems aren’t saying we should re-join the single market also, using the same arguments? Indeed they ought really to have the courage of their convictions and make it their policy just to rejoin the EU. It would be a good electoral strategy as they’d be the only party saying this and there will be at least a sizeable minority of the electorate who will agree. I’d have more respect for this than Labour’s weasely plan surreptitiously to rejoin by stealth. Let’s have a proper debate, out in the open.
December 2, 2025
As the UK imposes more and more costs on its industry and producers through worthy but unnecessary gas and electricity levies and workers’ rights we need the protections of tariffs to be competitive in our own market.
Things cost more here because of regulations not because we don’t have access to a customs union.
December 2, 2025
@Narrow Shoulders – agreed, but for that you need a parliament with its government working with not fighting the people and the nation
December 2, 2025
The Establishment’s intention is that we become an Associate Member of the EU, first proposed by Cameron but rejected by Merkel. Macron subsequently came up with the same proposal after BRINO and Sunak laid the ground-work with the Windsor Treachery.
The two-tier structure will be Eurozone = EU; non-Eurozone = Associate Members and will be created when the Ukraine war is over.
The LibDems are simply “getting ahead of the game” so they can claim it was all their idea when Two-Tier betrays the British people who voted to LEAVE the EU.
December 2, 2025
“It would be an unaffordable folly to try to do it again.”
I can expect the PM to announce it any day then.
I heard Ed Davey yesterday parrot out the NBER study like it was holy writ. Credit to Evan Davis who pushed back, unlike the normal BBC response to never dispute pro EU nonsense. His view was that the Brexit view had all but vanished. Perhaps he’s speaking from the LibDem echo chamber.
Any loss of GDP is 1% Brexit, 99% bad government.
December 2, 2025
@Dave Andrews – yup. It is also the same Ed Davey that was Post Office Minister, being aware of the failings and then has what you could say is his ‘cock-up’ placed on the taxpayer to the tune of £1billion in compensation for the lives he ruined. The UK Parliament rewarded this failure with a Knighthood
December 2, 2025
We have a parliament of lazy free-loaders the last think they like is having to manage and make decisions on behalf of the electorate. They prefer unelected unaccountable bureaucrats dictating what they should think.
I don’t think the Liberal Democrats are alone in Parliament with these bizarre thoughts, at a rough guess there is around 600 of the 650 MP’s in Parliament that is fighting the Nation to get back under the yoke of the unelected EU rule.
We have and still receive these negative tirades form the re-moaners, they just don’t like Democracy, the Rule of Law(English Law) the concept that they work for the people.
December 2, 2025
The media has just recently pointed out to us that 2TK’s Nuclear Power grandstanding is just that grandstanding, He signed the way the rights of the UK Parliament to make decisions on behalf of the Nation and its People, the EU has over-site and the final say on the direction chosen. The UK is not permitted by the EU to do anything that gives it an advantage under 2TK’s reset of relationships, the have the say in all projects. The new Nuclear Energy supply in the UK is already needing approval from the EU and they have been given the right to stipulate how the UK gets to implement it.
Brexit, what Brexit?
December 2, 2025
BOTH, clearly because there is no benefit in us re-joining the EU – it would be political and economic suicide.
Like all socialists the libdems are in love with the idea of big is better, no matter that so many problems, ignored by them, are created in the process, never mind the vast expense.
Nobody voted for us to become a non-voting member of the EU but subject to all of their petty rules. It would be too expensive in too many ways.
Starmer is actively completing the ideology that Blair didn’t. From digital IDs to EU compliance. Does this mean Blair was ahead of his time? Far from it, he was just convinced that everything defined in the dystopian novel ‘Dark Days of the 22nd century’ should come true earlier.
December 2, 2025
Let’s go with stupid and self delusional: anything to get other people to make your decisions for you. But I am pretty sure that the only political party to have no regrets at all about our absence from the EU is Reform UK.
December 2, 2025
The Lib Dems are socialists, some of them Socialist Ultras, who depend upon making and keeping people poor. Re-joining the EU’s Customs Union has nothing to do with the economy for economics, just as for climate, can easily be modelled to produce the political result required. It is simply about curbing our sovereignty. And why would we want to (pay to) be locked again into a union with which we had a £100bn/year trading deficit other than to make us poorer?
December 2, 2025
How do we get such low-calibre people in parliament? The Lib-Dems are saying it out loud, but it is equally Labour’s policy to rejoin by stealth. Then we have a PM and a Chancellor who have both lied about the UK’s financial position. But they are brazenly refusing to resign! Even worse, they are denying that they lied !!!!
When a politician lies and loses the people’s trust, it can never be repaired. What a shambles it is.
How the EU leaders must be laughing with contempt at our weak PM and the pathetic bunch of MPs he is leading.
Do any of them believe in the UK and its people?
December 2, 2025
It seems not. They do not seem to believe in anything much beyond looking after themselves.
December 2, 2025
the candidate selection process is broken, general lack of meritocracy in uk society, unbalanced with too many arts grads, public sector workers, union and research workers.
December 2, 2025
In your Telegraph analysis you need to explain please how you come to the conclusion that rolling over gilts amounts to new borrowing. Surely she has taken this into account in her figures, or is she saying fine we offload that debt and pay it back but hasn’t taken account of the replacement debt? Compare her figures to your please. Not crystal clear I’m afraid.
December 3, 2025
Because gilts have a maturity date on which the Government must pay the gilt holder. So Reeves borrows anew to pay off the existing debt. Suppose UK debt is £60 bn due to be repayed on 1 Jan 2026. Uk hasn’t got £60 bn so she borrows another £60 bn on 31 Dec 2025 to pay off that debt. She also borrows another £20 bn to finance expenditure commitments over the net few months. Ergo total borrowing on 1 Jan 2026 £60bn +£20bn = £80bn.
December 2, 2025
Thank you
In a report co-authored by Brexit Facts4EU, Sir John warns: “Rachel Reeves is building a debt mountain whilst claiming to bring the debt down. She wants to add a staggering £628bn to the state debt over the next five years, as if the £3tn the Government has already borrowed was not enough.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/12/02/the-hidden-13tn-debt-bomb-in-the-budget/
December 2, 2025
An officially approved government release goes to the channels intended around one hour earlier, and we get a full blown enquiry, and the leader of the team falls on thier sword and resigns.
Pronouncing inexactitudes to Parliament to justify steeling money from the wider population and those in the house of commons appear to be saying ‘so what’. The integrity of Parliament, the State is being ripped up daily and those we empower and pay don’t see it a situation that needs addressing.
December 3, 2025
You ask, ‘Are the Lib Dems stupid or dishonest”
The short answer is both. Most stupid people have enough self awareness not to be dogmatic. The Lib Dems don’t. They lie to reinforce dogma that no imtelligent person would accept.