My Lords, I welcome these probing amendments and look forward to the Minister’s response to some very important general issues. It is right that the staff in all the operating companies that will be affected by this should have an early idea from the Government about what is planned for their future employment.
I am one of those who welcome the idea that we want a well-paid profession serving on the railways. For the sake of taxpayers, who are putting in substantial grant in aid and capital money, and of fare-paying passengers, who often have to pay very high fares, we need a system for negotiation between staff and Great British Railways which is more likely to achieve the increase in productivity that could justify the higher pay for staff without imposing an ever-higher charge on the taxpayer and fare-paying passengers. This is more than a detail that can be left open; we need to know who the employer will be, what the status of the current contracts is and how they will be put into transition to new contracts for the staff when their employment changes.
Is there anything the Government can tell us about how they might—they hope—have better relations with the unions in future? Can we look forward to a better experience in getting that balance of better pay for better delivery, smarter working, adopting work practices and being willing to operate new capital investment in a way that delivers higher productivity and higher quality of service?
I also welcome my noble friend Lord Moylan’s draft of what the purposes should and could be, which may not entirely match all the Government’s aims. It would be interesting to hear from the Government which of his suggestions are intended or implied in the current legislation, so that we can have some early indication of what the mission statement of the new railway might be.
I think taxpayers and railway users are expecting more services, not fewer. That has not been the early experience of the last two years. They are expecting better punctuality and timeliness, which would also be welcome. What the new railway will definitely require is more feel for where more passenger movements are required or possible. As in the early days of privatisation, surely the early days of full nationalisation they might want to achieve a trend of rising passenger numbers. Privatisation achieved that very well, with the ability of companies to develop timetables and services more suited to modern travel needs and therefore fuel the continuing progress of providing more growth in passengers and revenue.
If a new railway management—the controlling mind of GBR—knows how to do that, it will make everything a lot easier if the background of the completion of these arrangements is rising passenger use, rising revenues, greater flexibility over timetables and thinking about growth rather than cost cutting and the elimination of less profitable routes. That can easily get you into a spiral of downturn, as with the nationalised railway experience for most of its time post war, until privatisation reversed those difficult trends.
I hope that the Minister will not rule out one of the modest successes of recent years, which is the ability to have a competitive challenge to the monopolist. There are times when people outside will see ways of harnessing people, talent and capital to provide additional and better service using the existing track, and for that they will clearly need fair terms for access, and that will provide an innovative stimulus to the nationalised monopoly. However, I fear that the Government will not want to do that, and so I think they will find it that much more difficult to innovate and improve the timetables without that stimulus or spur from others generating such ideas and providing such a challenge and opportunity for the growth of the railway.
September 11, 2026
grand central trains provides a good service to Sunderland, that the luvvies running a nationalised train service never would. there must be a way of harnessing the voters of Sunderland to put pressure on the national ruling elite.
September 11, 2026
It’s a long old haul to Sunderland from London. A fast train to Newcastle and hop on The Metro would be my preference.
South Shields to Sunderland by bus is not too bad either. Previously I had not been impressed by Sunderland when getting off at the station.
September 11, 2026
on the contrary, I far prefer getting Grand Central to Sunderland then the metro to Newcastle
the prices on Grand Central are far more sensible (and they are still making money, unlike LNER), far more room, nicer staff, etc. far better terms if you buy at the last minute too.
the idea that getting the train to Newcastle then metro to Sunderland is better than Grand Central to Sunderland is laughable, and clearly comes from someone who has not done it hundreds of times like I have
Sunderland town centre is a dump, but plenty of nice places nearby if you know where you are going. Newcastle centre is also a dump, and getting like Manchester, ie not safe unless you are the prime minister with body guards.
although Grand Central versus LNER is not really competition in the true sense, since Grand Central is owned by the German nationalised railway, and LNER is UK state owned, so its 2 nationalised industries not true competition.
September 11, 2026
Good morning.
How long will it take for people to realise that nationalization of a unionised monopoly does not work ? And let us not forget that, it was the EU that first forced the UK Government to privatise our railways. So this could only be done thanks to BREXIT, not that it would ever be acknowledged.
September 11, 2026
The railways are one of the last bastions of union power including the London Underground. I think another government is going to have to face them down much as Thatcher did with the Miners. There are so many Spanish practices and objections to innovation that they are rooted in the early 20th century.
This government will not address these problems so we’ll just have to wait.
September 11, 2026
Major’s government privatised British Rail in 1993. Since then, the industry has been fragmented into over 100 separate companies. Which are frequently criticised as both unpopular (lower passenger numbers) and dysfunctional.
The key structural flaw was separating track infrastructure from train operations – which made co-ordination harder. And much more expensive because of the duplication in management
Just as with re-nationalising the failed sewage dumping industry, solving the railway’s failures is going to be extremely expensive
Reply The early years of privatisation showed good growth in passengers. Labour renationalised track, signals and stations and directed timetables arresting that progress.
September 11, 2026
To reply – indeed
JR says “However, I fear that the Government will not want to do that (allow fair competition) indeed after all they do not allow fair competition in healthcare and schools (you are forced to pay four times over) or in housing, public transport (you are forced to subsidise trains you may never use), or with the BBC, in banking… When governments run thing they almost invariably rig the marked in their favour with taxes, subsidies and red tape.
Train tickets are over 50% subsidised cars over 50% taxes so a 4 times relative price rigging. What would be the real demand for trains without this vast rigging? Trains will become even less competitive with driverless cars and taxis soon too.
September 11, 2026
Good to hear Jacob RM, Truss, Mark Littlejohn and several others on the Mike Graham Show just now about 10.10. As this does not count as TV he explained he was able to be more outspoken about the appalling evil in my view decision by Ed Miliband on Israel surely just to try to win votes in Holborn. THIS DUE to by election Law on TV coverage.
September 11, 2026
SG: “The key structural flaw was separating track infrastructure from train operations – which made co-ordination harder. And much more expensive because of the duplication in management.”
I read that the core EU rules established by Directive 91/440/EEC required the separation of infrastructure and operations. The directive required that the management of rail infrastructure (tracks, signaling, stations) be kept separate from the operation of transport services (running the actual trains).
September 11, 2026
Separating track from trains was demanded by the EU.
September 11, 2026
Maybe just put someone like Mussolini in charge of the railways
Failing that, Mr. Burnham could call an election with a promise to pay voters £5000 if he wins. That would give him closer to 10 years, which he says will be long enough to turn things around.
September 11, 2026
If the employees of privatised railway companies are facing a situation whereby their contracts are taken inhouse through nationalisation it is NOT a bargaining position from the acquisitor !
It is, or certainly should be, simply a TUPE transaction which guarantees transferral of terms and conditions. Anything else and I am sure the unions will quite rightly make themselves heard.
We used to have a great rail industry but it has been ruined by many things – not least political back and forth..
September 11, 2026
There is only one track and only so many slots on which the trains can operate. I have found myself on a different operators train going to my destination and have been reprimanded.
Train privatisation is a mash up, done incorrectly. The track has to be private as well.
Let us not mention HS2
September 11, 2026
With Respect John, and that’s not a start of an insult. We have to face facts and can’t pretend any-more the UK Parliament has turned full on Marxist, manoeuvring toward the WEF dream of the ‘Great Reset’. There is nothing you me or anyone else can say the UK Parliament isn’t hearing and is definitely not listening, it is not working for the nation and its people. All the logic, the common-sense will not detract from the project.
In essence the UK Parliament has gone rogue, their religion doesn’t permit them to work with the people or the nation – its rule in their own personal image.
September 11, 2026
The nationalisation of the railways should make it even easier to implement driverless trains.
September 11, 2026
Railway nationalisation is not just a backwards step.
Fat chance.
While fares might become capped giving users a little financial relief – another ideologist so loved by socialists, from past experience everything else related to trains will become worse. It’s inevitable. We can all but guarantee that the fine print of the bill to nationalise will be badly written and open to interpretation, while the eventual day to day running of the system will become mired in unprofessional bureaucracy and poor operating standards. That will not be down to employees, it will be down to the management team that labour will dream up.
The only good thing that will come out of this is when we get a new decent right of centre government that understands real innovation, they will be able to fill the Treasury coffers when the railways get privatised again.
September 11, 2026
kind host:how many were in the chamber during your detailed presentation and(alas)
was any noble attendee actually listening.It is to be regretted that unless it is a Government
referral to the upper chamber Downing St doesn’t give a fig.I question the raison d’etre for
the upper house as it is presently constituted and contempt for it’s begowned and begwigged
pomp and ceremonial.Doubtless Charles loves it.Doubtless the PoW will move the whole
caravanserie to Aston when he’s is in the ascendant
Reply About 25 with the Minister listening and answering
September 11, 2026
So 270 of the UK Parliament voted to kill the population off, rather than find real solutions.
They of course will argue that they are saving money by encouraging murder. I wonder how many would vote for a return of the death penalty?
September 11, 2026
Still taxed to death, immigrations still high, net-zero still on, energy & fuel costs sky high, still never see a policeman, still more & more mini-marts on the high street …..its like nothing has changed since in last government(s) ….nothing appears to ever change
September 11, 2026
lets not forget the punctuality of SWT trains has nose dived since Labour nationalised them
September 11, 2026
The fourth plinth in trafalgar square is a cartoon …have politicians no shame
September 12, 2026
@glen cullen – your money and a wayward Political Class