One of the big wins from leaving will be regaining control of our fishing grounds and seas around us. The Common Fishing Policy has dragged us from net exporter to net importer of fish. It has seen considerable damage done to our fishery by overfishing, with much of the wealth of our seas taken from us to sell elsewhere. The damage has been intensified by the long period when the CFP forced fishermen to throw dead fish back into the sea, increasing the damage done without producing revenue for the industry and food for the consumer.
A domestic fishing policy must abandon the discards policy and insist on all fish caught being landed and sold. There will need to be controls on how much fish can be taken, with species analysis. There are various systems for allowing rewards for effort and regulating days at sea to ensure some sensible control over the fishery, to allow husbanding of fish stocks. The aim of the policy is to catch fewer fish, and land more fish in the UK from UK vessels.
Regaining control of our fishery will also allow us to invest in a range of fish processing industries close to the ports, to add value and create more jobs. It will be one of the big wins from Brexit to give a fishing policy kinder to our fish and our fishermen and women. We can restore our fisheries whilst enjoying more economic benefit from them. Their sacrifice to get us into the EEC was a disgrace, and their exploitation by the EU gas been environmentally and economically damaging.
August 1, 2019
Our fish will be gutted if Boris fails to deliver a proper Brexit.
August 1, 2019
By the grace of Cod it will come to pass.
August 1, 2019
I hope Boris doesn’t get knocked off his perch.
August 1, 2019
There’s a plaice in heaven for him if it does!But somewhere way below if he flounders.
August 1, 2019
Now let’s not Skate around the real issues!
August 1, 2019
Grayling could deliver this – he’s been a fish out of water at transport. But eel be back.
August 1, 2019
But Sturgeon could yet mess it all up.
August 1, 2019
Borris has capitulated and bent over already, I honestly believed he was going to take us out, no Deal freedom. So come on General election, Brexit party, Nigel for PM, I do not believe he wil do a Treason
August 1, 2019
EU27 trawlers currently take around 750,000 tonnes of fish (worth £3.5Bn p.a. wholesale) from UK waters each year. http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/02/leaving-the-eu-next-march-would-provide-a-big-boost-to-our-fishing-industry/#comment-970594
But as Owen Patterson, Fishing for Leave & others have pointed out, a Transition Period after 31 October would enable the EU to eradicate much of Britain’s fishing industry: http://johnredwoodsdiary.com/2018/11/02/leaving-the-eu-next-march-would-provide-a-big-boost-to-our-fishing-industry/#comment-970769
August 1, 2019
Dangerous rubbish. The large majority of fish caught by British boats are sold to the EU-27: they are a much bigger market than the UK, and they eat a lot of species (like pollock, and lots of obscure shellfish) that British consumers do not and will not eat. Right now, sale of fish to the EU-27 is tariff-free and needs no health checks. A no deal Brexit means tariffs and it means routine and slow health checks on all UK fish heading for the EU-27, which will kill the Uk fishing industry stone dead, as its products will no longer be competitive. Trade is good – Brexit is about making trade harder. As ever, Brexit = the economics of the madhouse.
August 1, 2019
Rubbish the EU is the economics of the mad house. Why would they want to restrict imports from the UK in this way when they export more to us than we do to them?
As Henry George put it:-
Free trade consists simply in letting people buy and sell as they want to buy and sell. It is protection that requires force, for it consists in preventing people from doing what they want to do. Protective tariffs are as much applications of force as are blockading squadrons, and their object is the same—to prevent trade. The difference between the two is that blockading squadrons are a means whereby nations seek to prevent their enemies from trading; protective tariffs are a means whereby nations attempt to prevent their own people from trading. What protection teaches us, is to do to ourselves in time of peace what enemies seek to do to us in time of war.
August 1, 2019
Even if the EU choose to be uncooperative and shoot themselves in the foot we can always switch production more to the home market, or to further processing or to other export markets. Businesses are quite good at working round the idiotic obstacles that governments endlessly put it their way. They have had lots of practice given that the EU and UK government are an endless source of these obstacles and inconveniences – almost every single day some new lunacy arrives. At least one out we will only have the UK government to blame and they will then be empowered to act and could undo some of this damaging lunacy. Start with employment laws and abolishing the gender pay reporting lunacy from the appalling Mother Theresa. Let markets decide pay rates and allow women and men choose whatever jobs that suit their work live balance and their interests and skills best.
August 1, 2019
Free trade needs far less government not new treaties and even more of it!
The BBC reports that plastic bag sales are 90% down since the government forced businesses to charge for them. I just weighed the new plastic long life bags I bought recently and they are about 13 times heavier than the old flimsy free ones. So are we not using more plastic due to this government regulation not less? I do however prefer the heavier bags but unless you use them more than 13 times it is not really helping reduce plastic! Plus I often used the old ones more than once.
August 1, 2019
Even better – the Co-op uses bioplastic compostable bags.
[Bioplastics are plastics made from organic materials such as corn starch, and often made up of polylactic acid (PLA). … Biodegradable plastics, on the other hand, refer to petroleum-based plastics that are combined with an additive that makes them break down quickly.]
August 1, 2019
Yes James Tesco are doing this, but why can’t you simply take a shopping bag of any material and use again and again. Is that simple reasoning lost to those born after 1955.
Management have a lot to answer for in bringing our country down. They just cannot manage . They think if they can set up a computer website or programme then they are fit to manage!
How many at work have got more than 400 ‘e’ mails in their in box without any time allotted to reading those ‘e’ mails, To top it a smart manager , to cover her own back rather than make the system work says ( upon not getting action as she didn’t follow up an idea or request or change) says ” well I sent you an ‘e’ mail , then furthermore a higher tier of manager backs her up. Come on these people are parasites and NOT managers
August 1, 2019
I just cleared our store out to let a washing machine man in. She had bought thirty long life bags to save the flippin Erf.
August 1, 2019
I read that the Google Camp in Sicily (with climate change as it theme) seems to have loads private jets arriving (one report suggests 114). Surely not? Have Google learned nothing from the endless Prince Charles/Emma Thompson / Greta Thunberg/Prince Harry types of gross hypocrisy yet? How do these people expect anyone to take them seriously?
Could this be the same Google that etc ed
August 1, 2019
I would be interested to see the evidence that Brits do not eat pollock and ‘obscure shellfish’? I eat both and those of my acquaintance also do.
You give the overwhelming impression you are rather annoyed by the fact the UK want to leave your EU and object to us saying the mainland european factory fishing will not be allowed to continue decimating our fish stocks.
August 1, 2019
What they mean is that it just fetches a bit more money if exported.
August 1, 2019
A bizarre view, with little comprehension of the downside of the CFP or the way fish is handled or marketed in Europe. Certainly no sympathy for UK fishermen or the politics that destroyed them, but then your politics dissallow such. I am sure that 120 million Japanese would be happy to buy quality fish if the EU told it’s people they could no longer buy UK fish and shellfish.
August 1, 2019
That would only happen if the EU played silly games – We already comply with EU regulations so why should there be extra checks – That’s nonsense.
As ever, Anti-Brexit lies = the fake news of the madhouse.
August 1, 2019
So Bryan, you want to leave the EU but then you are amazed to find out the EU will no longer treat the UK as a member
August 1, 2019
Ken Smith, Rubbish, it’s not about being a member, it’s about trade, which happens between the rest of the world and the EU every day, and perfectly normally.
August 1, 2019
@Ken Smith
WHAT…!
Read it again – you’ve misduplicated what I said…
August 1, 2019
Ken
The arrogance/ignorance of Brexiteer posters here is appalling. If facts don’t bear out their prejudices they shout ‘fake news’.
August 2, 2019
Have you ever provided a verifiable fact? Has Andy? Mostly just bile, made up nonsense and hatred of our country. How pathetic.
August 1, 2019
Clearly the EU can play ‘silly games’ if they want to but it would not be in their members interests to do so. The parasitic Brussels bureaucrats however might think it is in their personal interests though.
August 1, 2019
No – am afraid Helena speaks the truth – we are still being horribly lied to. Whether we comply with EU regulations after we leave matters not to the EU, we will still be subject to checks as a third country by officials, checks for quality, quantity, freshness and health grounds, quotas etc etc and with RoRo through Calais choked off to us the future looks bleak- getting this kind of fresh produce through to European markets is going to be difficult. The French and others officials are going to be relentless in their checks- I saw it all before in the 1960’s and I can see it again
August 1, 2019
Sameold, Your anti-Brexit threats are the same old Remain lies. The fact is the EEC (EU) stole our fish. It is absurd and outrageous that an island surrounded by the sea should import more fish than it exports.
If the EU does not want to buy our fish then there is always the domestic market. And since the UK does not produce anywhere near enough of the food we consume there will always be more demand here than our fishing and farming industries can satisfy.
You are trying to steal my future as a free man in a free country, all for the pretence that Brits don’t eat pollock.
August 1, 2019
The French have already said they wouldn’t do this but hey, who can trust anybody in the EU – We certainly cannot…
But the irony is that this would work against the EU if they added extra checks, because we could do the same and delay all those expensive BMW’s getting here
August 1, 2019
As is every country that trades .. each must meet the standards the other requires to sell there. I can still buy New Zealand and indeed Chile Apples in Tescos and Kia cars any where.
August 1, 2019
Usually the French do this as a “protectionist” measure to protect their home producers.
That is not the case this time around, so the question is will the French kowtow to their EU masters?
August 1, 2019
Well Sameold what do you see in the opposit direction? Pray Tell.
They send massive more amounts to us. We can apply the same checks as them and meanwhile continue to import what we want from countries outside the EU.
When was the last time you checked the source of the fruit and veggies you bought from your local supermarket?
Those from the local Farmers Market are , well, local.
August 1, 2019
Well said. Brexit will decimate the British fishing industry. I, for one, will laugh.
August 1, 2019
Andy – you will laugh at anything that suggests our country may suffer in any way you can imagine. It won’t, of course – but the fact that you’d even wish it shows that you actually don’t give a toss about your ”children’s future”. Is that because you don’t have any?
(Suggest you research a character called ‘Walter Mitty’?)
August 1, 2019
Why will there be a 10% decline in UK fishing due to Brexit? All the evidence is there could be 3-4x gains for the reasons given above. I guess you won’t be laughing then?
August 1, 2019
@Andy; “Brexit will decimate the British fishing industry.”
The British fishing industry is already decimated, leaving the EU can not make things any worse but just might make things better, assuming politicos do offer the correct help and not just posturing, unfortunately unless we have a govt that is prepared to -as one Thatcher era ‘Wet’ might say- intervene before breakfast, lunch and dinner I doubt the fishing industry can be saved (from its self).
August 1, 2019
“Leaving the EU can not make things worse….”
Wanna bet?
August 2, 2019
Andy, Yes.
August 1, 2019
Got your baggage sent abroad? 90 days left. There may be long queues to get your baggage out. Book early for exodus
August 1, 2019
So first the EU dessimates the UK fishing industry, fact. Then Brexit dessimates it yet again, speculation. You must have been in an uncontrolable state of manic laughter since you were born, better than the tears of disappointment I suppose.
August 1, 2019
Andy, pathetic attention seeking again. Just what you would expect from a child.
August 1, 2019
Dear Mr. Redwood,
Poor old @Andy,
Still sat at home all alone. Frustrated by all and everything around him. The only highlight of his sad and miserable day; putting ‘pen to paper’ to vent his feelings on this weblog.
You should get out a bit more Andy. What about getting a girlfriend, one who might ease your furrowed brow and deal with your pent-up frustrations?
August 1, 2019
there is no UK fishing indusrty, it has been destroyed already by EU, but we might be able to rise again if we get free from EU
August 1, 2019
That is up to the EU. If they decide to impose tariffs and unnecessary checks that will be their choice, of course the UK proposal will be not to do so pending a comprehensive FTA.
August 1, 2019
And the EU is all about making us one nation.
We had a national vote on that. The most recent one showed us that at least 86% of the votership were happy to leave Art 50 in play.
August 1, 2019
The only dangerous rubbish was what you subsequently typed. Your BDS is quite alarming! If the EU decide to apply tariffs to our meagre catches, we can choose to sell them elsewhere. That is one of the freedoms that leaving the EU will bring. No CFP to obey. We can decide if tariffs are applied to imported fish, not the seller. Taking back our territorial waters and fishery control will mean that fewer fish will be imported. At least from the EU 27.
August 1, 2019
Which is why British fishermen are so pro-remain I suppose?
August 1, 2019
Fish from the shop frozen cabinet which says ‘white fish’ will be Pollock.
It is therefore sold and eaten in large quantities in the UK
August 1, 2019
Helena,
There is no reason why we cannot eat more of our own fish, rather than importing fish. We currently import twice as much fish as we export.
In fact the reduction in the transport of fish between us and the EU will bring environmental benefits.
August 1, 2019
So the EU people will need to find something else to eat.
August 1, 2019
There are waters off Belgium, Denmark, France, Spain, Italy …..need I go on?
August 1, 2019
Helena, Birds Eye changed the fish in their fish fingers from Cod to Pollock they were cheaper. I looked it up ten years ago the press release said “We eat approximately 530million fish fingers each year and they have been a favourite with generations of children since the 1950s. Birds Eye sold £80.5million worth of fish fingers in the UK in the year to July 14, which equates to some 80 per cent of the market.”
Brits will change their diets and when tv cooking programs show new ideas people follow them. Shepherds Pie with lamb mince, one show even got people cooking goat and Venison got popular after the Paleo diet recommended it was less fatty. The Guardian “The British have finally embraced venison. Sales of the meat have risen by 50% in Sainsbury’s compared with last year, while Marks & Spencer sold three times as much in 2011 as it did in 2010. Total UK sales have more than doubled in the past five years, as British consumers have shown a preference for more unusual meats and more game.” With the growing trend in healthier, alternative foods and the use of it on many restaurant menus, venison is becoming more and more popular as an everyday food for the general consumer. But can the market keep up with the demand? At the moment the UK imports around a third of the venison it consumes, yet exports a third of the venison it produces to Europe (mostly roe deer). If demand continues to increase as it is, UK imports will need to double.
HFV.co.uk “Most consumers in the UK want UK produced venison which means the number of deer farms will need to increase to support this. This is happening slowly since the Scottish Government has been supporting deer farming initiatives but it needs to increase more.” So how did this go, have the Scottish diversified, is this something the Welsh can do?
August 1, 2019
Quoting from “Brexit and fishing: Why we’re all wrong” by Jonathan Lis.
“The Brexit dream is to be an ‘independent coastal state’ where we can determine who fishes where. But in all instances we are governed by the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea. Article 62 compels states to “give other states access to the surplus of the allowable catch.”
“As for the allocation granted within the UK, this is a matter for the government. The EU did not force large companies to dominate the British quota for fish stocks at the expense of small-scale enterprises[and allow them to be traded instead of unused quota being returned to the quota issuer]. And if the government did now want to confiscate existing allocations, they would fall foul of international property law – thus necessitating lengthy litigation and compensation.”
August 1, 2019
“give other states access to the surplus of the allowable catch.”
Given the amount of overfishing, how much surplus is there in truth, especially if the fishing grounds require resting?
August 1, 2019
Who is Jonathan Lis?
August 1, 2019
Acorn, That is completely misleading. UNCLoS specifies that the coastal state has the right to determine the allowable catch and impose other laws and conditions within its 200nm EEZ
If, and only if, the coastal state is unable to harvest the entire allowable catch (UNCLoS Art62/2) the coastal state shall give other states access to the surplus. But – these are the main parts you have omitted – the coastal state retains control of its EEZ, retains control of the allowable catch and the species, makes the rules, provides licences and charges fees. So other states are very much paying and obeying subordinates, and only for the surplus, if any.
By contrast the EU “owns” all our fishing rights directly; and we get a only a small proportion as the EU sees fit, we have effectively no control, and derive little economic benefit.
August 2, 2019
When it comes to quota, it is conveniently forgotten that it is UK Government, not the EU, that decides how much each UK vessel can catch. If the inshore fishing fleet is receiving less than its share of quota it is Westminster that is failing, not Brussels. And if much of UK quota is owned by a few large, and often foreign, corporations then it is UK Government that has failed to act and, indeed, UK fishers who sold their quotas to allow it to happen. (Wildlife Trusts)
August 2, 2019
Quotas are set by the UK in line with EU fishing policy acorn.
And when Heath gave away our fishing grounds the remaining quotas left for UK companies meant the smaller companies soon realised they were unable to remain profitable.
They sold up and got out of the industry.
You are being disengenuous.
August 2, 2019
Acorn, You are pretending there is no elephant in the room: it is the EU which decides how much the UK can fish in its own waters.
August 1, 2019
UN LoS Article 61 – Conservation of the living resources
1. The coastal State shall determine the allowable catch of the living resources in its exclusive economic zone.
That would be the UK, not the EU, and we should set the allowable catch at the capacity of the home fishing fleet compatible with balancing demand and the needs of proper management and conservation.
August 1, 2019
Helena,
You miss the point.
Brexit is not about trade.
It is about our people retaining a strong and direct influence over our laws, taxes, foreign, environmental, energy, military and immigration policies by retaining the ability to directly elect and remove those who make these decisions and policies.
In the case of fishing it is about regaining our rightful assets.
August 1, 2019
FREEDOM!
August 1, 2019
Original Richard
” the ability to directly elect and remove those who make these decisions and policies”
We can’t even elect our own prime minister. We have just had a 100 000 or so strong establishment junta impose Boris on us with no chance of any vote until the next general election.
Your faith in our so-called freedom (or loss of it) would be touching if it weren’t so ridiculously misguided
August 1, 2019
Margaret Howard,
As you say you will have a vote at the next GE for the next PM.
But we NEVER have a vote for the EU bureaucrats and presidents and at least 100K had a vote for the leader of the Consevative Party, far more than were involved in the selection of the EU presidents.
If you wanted to have a vote for the new Conservative Party leader and hence PM you could have joined the Conservative Party 3 months ago.
There is no way any of us can vote for any of the EU presidents. And there is no way we can remove them. There is no vote of confidence procedure allowed.
August 2, 2019
Original Richard
As I point out over and over again, the EU is a trading bloc consisting of 28 independent countries with their own parliaments.
The choice of Boris was foisted on us by a small establishment junta that still runs this country behind the scenes.
It has been a travesty of democracy and made us the world’s laughing stock.
August 2, 2019
Bit like a Common Market then Margaret.
Except it isn’t.
Flag, anthem Presidents , Commissioners, a foreign service with ambassadors, plans for an armed force.
With supremacy of law making over member states, growing into new important areas with the features of the Lisbon Treaty kicking in next year and additional qualified majority voting kicking in too.
“A trading bloc” you reckon.
Hilarious.
August 1, 2019
Helena,
Yes we export what we catch and import what we eat – this maximised choice is what some see as the advantages of trade, others see it as an unnecessary environmental cost. Either this will carry on or, as you suggest, be prevented by the EU’s behaviour. If the latter occurs UK will either adjust its taste (some may argue more refined or healthier – the oilier fish) or shift along the value chain and process more.
August 1, 2019
Helena
“A no deal Brexit means tariffs”
Is that a threat ?
Here’s how it works – we offer zero, or near to zero tariffs, if any country chooses to harm our business then we hit back with tariffs on their exports.
“…..which will kill the Uk fishing industry stone dead, as its products will no longer be competitive”
Competitive with what ?
Britain’s fishing waters are a fantastic resource, OURS, no one else’s. They will eventually be utilised solely for the British home market.
Same with all our natural resources – Not to be shared with the ungrateful EU.
The more we become self sufficient in key areas the better. The prospect of a self sufficient UK terrifies the EU, particularly the French.
August 1, 2019
You do talk a lot of drivel. The fact is the way Quota is allocated is vastly to the detriment of the UK and her fishermen. A single Dutch trawler has 23% of the entire UK fishing quota. The inshore UK fishery has just 4% of the quota. It is EU fisherman who catch the vast majority of fish in UK waters 173 times more herring, 45 times more whiting, 16 times more mackerel and 14 times more haddock and cod. It is hardly surprising that mackerel stocks have now fallen to below sustainable levels and this is a direct consequence of European greed and incompetence. I want to close UK waters to EU boats to allow fish stocks to begin to recover and I would not reopen them for at the very least a generation. The rape of the sea is yet another evil of your EU.
August 1, 2019
Sir Joh,
The sacrifice of our fishing industry and the communities which relied upon it was one of the very worst acts by Edward Heath in tying the UK in to the EEC. His treachery then, with his disgracefully hidden agenda was as bad as that we have seen from certain MPs and their cohorts during the past few years. It is absolutely essential that full control is regained so that sane protocols can be introduced which actually initially safeguard and then increase fish stocks.
Boris’s comment a couple of days ago raised, once more, the concerns of many that a quick, clean Brexit may not be delivered. You and other stalwarts must ensure that he does not waver and sell us, and the fishing industry, out. If he does, he and the Conservative Party will have had their chips.
August 1, 2019
Indeed. It was Heath who started digging this massive EU hole for the UK, but every government from Heath to May (including Thatcher) has kept digging us in further. Let us hope Boris can finally deliver freedom and restore democracy. He has a very difficult task indeed given all the traitors in Parliament, the Lords, the BBC, Channel 4 ….. trying to undermine him.
Idiotic interview on Channel 4 news with green crap pushing Carney last night. Do these PPE dopes not have some decent engineers and scientists on hand to explain reality to them?
August 1, 2019
The Prime Minister in his reply to Owen Paterson on 25th July 2019.
Hansard Volume 663.
Unequivocal, wouldn’t you say? I hope that Mr Johnson’s memory is as long and unfailing as Hansard’s. Mr Paterson will, I hope, remind Mr Johnson of his pledge in this answer, should any attempt at backsliding ensue.
August 1, 2019
Would that be the Owen Paterson that when the tide came in on the Somerset Levels, pulled a sicky and disappeared into a hospital?
August 2, 2019
He was one of the only politicians who turned up.
The EA which neglected the drainage, dredging, ditch maintenance and pump maintenance in their desire to re wild the area were the ones missing after the predicable floods happened.
August 3, 2019
I believe he was undergoing eye surgery for a detached retina. Hardly a sicky.
August 1, 2019
Alas I seem to remember his predecessor telling the HoC over 100 times that the UK will be Leaving the EU.
Let us see shall we
August 1, 2019
RAF ….excellent .
Sir John, please remind friends and the new PM what he is on record saying.
August 1, 2019
Pominoz. If you are actually a Pommy resident in Australia, I would like to know what gives you the right to comment about Brexit at all? Are you a UK passport holder working in Australia; or, have you emigrated and obtained an Australian passport and citizenship? Or, are you hedging your bets by holding dual citizenship? I think we should be told.
August 2, 2019
Acorn, So you have to be a Pommy living in the UK to comment? Tell that to your mates like PvL, or even Obama, Tusk and Juncker.
August 3, 2019
Acorn,
Everyone has rights to comment. My situation has already been outlined on this site.
With your permission, of course, I may comment again in the future.
August 1, 2019
The sooner the better, perhaps some one should let the good people of Scotland know that if the snp had there way they would stay in the dreaded Eu and give up there fishing rights back to Europe, with fishing gone and the dwindling use of oil there won’t be a lot left for Scotland to trade with apart from whiskey
August 1, 2019
Mick, Whisky A lot of the good people of Scotland do know now for sure that the SNP will barter away our fishing and waters to the EU. The Holyrood finance minister just the other day let that slip. A lovely furore!
August 1, 2019
And there would be no subsidy from England for tuition fees or care homes.
The tolerance of the ordinary English on this has not been acknowledged, let alone respected.
August 1, 2019
I was disappointed that Mr. Johnson’s transport in Scotland was not a huge red bus with “£200 million per week subsidy” written on its sides to remind those of a Caledonian persuasion of the largesse of the U.K. Exchequer.
August 1, 2019
The best managed sea fishery in the world is around the shores of Iceland, while the EU’s CFP is a joke motivated by national self-interest.
While the Spanish fishermen are generally thought to be the worst plunderers of our seas, the ones that have done the most damage in UK waters are the Danes. Their obsession in annually hoovering up hundreds of thousands of tonnes of sand eels (the basic food of most North sea fish species), along with similar amounts of juvenile fish (dead) of most edible species, has caused incredible damage.
Why the EU allows/encourages this practice makes no sense whatsoever.
August 1, 2019
Peter, well said. The dreadful plundering of sand eels is decimating the puffin population, to the extent that it is now officially designated in danger of extinction. The UK is home to 10% of the global puffin population.
As you say, what is the EU doing about it ….
August 1, 2019
Peter / Alison
Well see the EU is French led, and historically they’ve specialised in plundering other’s resources. Macron declared recently that French access to UK fishing grounds was “paramount”.
They caused great damage to Germany with the treaty of Versailles, and in 1923 France and Belgium illegally invaded the Ruhr and stole what they wanted, because the Weimar government said it could no longer pay the French war reparations that were crippling the country.
So I expect trouble from the French concerning our fishing areas. It might be necessary to attack their vessels, just as they did ours. Payback time.
Personally, if it was down to me I’d classify our fishing vessels as armed Merchantmen and make sure they were armed.
Fishing – one of many reasons to get out of the EU.
August 3, 2019
One must also remember how they treated their former colonies -Appallingly !
Even today the French use currency to control them. Google French Franc and colonialism.
August 1, 2019
We like the Danes.
August 1, 2019
Agree Peter. Its not climate change that is putting different species at risk. Its mans intervention. Sea birds are starving because of action like this and yet climate change is to blame according to the idiots and cohorts of 16 year old schoolgirls.
August 1, 2019
Boris will cede fishing for a free trade agreement. I don’t trust him
August 1, 2019
We do not have sufficient boats and men at this time to fish. There will have to be an agreement. If not, many French and German skippers face ruin with almost immediate effect.
August 1, 2019
Just like our fishermen were thrown on scrap heap when we joined.
August 1, 2019
Err, so what? That’s their problem.
August 1, 2019
Prigger, Provided we re-instate our legal rights to to the UK 200nm EEZ, and if we do not catch all the fish that can be sustainably caught, we can licence foreign fishermen and collect the fees. We do not need an agreement with the EU to do that, UNCLoS is sufficient. Our not having enough boats at this moment is therefore not a problem.
August 1, 2019
Too few boats for now means a welcome respite to over-fishing, surely.
Of course, we must not do anything to inconvenience French and German skippers, Oh no! The Evil Empire would not like that.
August 1, 2019
We take back control of our fishing grounds and sell them licenses.
August 1, 2019
Good, let them be ruined. What is more important to you: a few French and German skippers, and neither France nor Germany has shown themselves to be friends of the UK over the last 3 years, or fish stocks ? Mackerel stocks are now below stainable levels and are about to collapse. I don’t want the seas around our shores to be as barren as a brick as the Mediterranean is.
August 1, 2019
Prigger…oh dear.
August 1, 2019
HE HAS ALREADY CAPITULATED
August 1, 2019
Ian Wragg
“Boris will cede fishing for a free trade agreement. I don’t trust him”
He’d better not cede a damn thing, not if he and his party know what’s good for them.
Fishing is the acid test for many……cede that to the EU and it’s game over for the conservatives.
August 1, 2019
Good morning
At last ! To me this is the litmus test. We need to hear what the government’s view is on this. The EU will know that, should the UK take back FULL control of our waters we will most certainly be Leaving. Theresa May MP failed in this regard. She only stated that the UK would get its fair share. Hardly convincing. I want the government to have a hard line on this.
I said it here before. They were the first to suffer and it it is only right that they should be the first to benefit after we Leave. Anything less would for me be the final and ultimate betrayal.
August 1, 2019
Mark B, You are absolutely correct. Regaining control of many areas is critical, but regaining sole control of our 200nm EEZ is symbolically vital too. The damage that the EU’s CFP did was immeasurable, and the EU’s plundering of our fish demands restitution: £39bn sounds about right to me.
August 1, 2019
Exactly right, the CFP just like almost every other, top down, one size fits all lunacy from the EU bureaucrats (who understand little of the industries they then destroy) has been a disaster.
Not quite as bad as the Euro, ERM, the renewable agenda or CAP but not far behind them.
August 1, 2019
Yes. Wouldn’t it be nice. However I think it will continue to be a bargaining chip. The Spanish and French will be desperate to keep access to our waters and make that a condition in any future negotiations about the bigger picture and I have little/no confidence in our people to stay strong.
In the event that we do take back control, we know their fishermen will push the limits and how do you propose to protect our fisheries with a navy that cannot fulfil its current commitments let alone stop the umpteen incursions into our territorial waters in the future?
August 1, 2019
Don’t worry petal, you can stay strong for all of us.
We will provide you with a rowing boat, a broom stick and some Union Jack underpants to wear and you can protect our waters from those ghastly foreigners.
Just wave the broom at any approaching foreign vessel and shout unceasingly loudly and slowly in English – interspersed with verses of Rule Britannia – and they will eventually get the message.
August 1, 2019
If Andy ever has children, then they’ll grow up to have very odd and warped ideas about the UK’s place in the world. He/she will have brainwashed them into thinking that their country deserves to be subservient, unsuccessful, broken, ineffectual – because it DARED to escape the EU masters’ shackles.
But then – Andy may grow up and ”a sudden gleam… make plain in one great moment” what he/she has not seen. Then again…..
August 1, 2019
Andy – the usual codswallop.
August 1, 2019
Take some canned fish with you when you leave England. Japanese tuna will keep you bright and fill you with energy
August 1, 2019
I conclude that the advice given emanates from a gold plated idiot. The only advantage of such is to know that they still exist. Anyone who has had a friendly interception from a blacked out black boat on the approach to a blacked out UK port in the middle of the night knows that you speak from where the sun does not shine.
August 1, 2019
Andy:
When did you start to despise Britain so much? Is there any particular cause for your hatred of our nation?
August 1, 2019
I hate Brexit – not Britain. You confuse the two.
Britain is welcoming, open, tolerant, forward-thinking, sensible.
Brexit is the opposite.
August 1, 2019
Andy
“I hate Brexit – not Britain. You confuse the two.”
You regularly insult us, and our country.
You suggest our pensioners should be put to labour in the fields.
Great isn’t it when you can get away such vile bigotry from the anonymity of the internet. You wouldn’t dare express your kind of mentality in public
One of these days Son you’ll come unstuck, trust me on that.
August 2, 2019
So when we joined the EU, it was our open minded love of the world that caused us to raise tariffs on trade with Canada, New Zealand etc?
August 1, 2019
Andy, why aren’t you on the stage? Put on a clowns outfit and your character would be complete
August 1, 2019
Nig 1
“The Spanish and French will be desperate to keep access to our waters and make that a condition in any future negotiations”
That’s called blackmail, and any government yielding to it will be toasted overnight.
August 1, 2019
I agree that Heath should NEVER have handed control of our fishing grounds to the EU. It destroyed fishing communities around the UK and the EU has decimated our massive natural resource.
EU ‘incentives and rules’ are never well thought out as the butter mountains and milk lakes proved. It’s one thing for a country to make a misjudgement as the effects are limited, but when bad ‘rules’ are applied to a whole continent the ‘mistakes’ result in massive problems.
If the UK allows foreign boats to fish in UK waters, they should be landed in the UK. How else can we monitor the catches? Pulse fishing and ‘super’ trawlers should be banned outright from UK waters. Trawling should be strictly limited due to the long term damage it causes.
Put the UK, and its’ people first, just for a change!
August 1, 2019
Shirley, Well said all round.
August 1, 2019
Too true! We are all dying to see our own fishermen husband our own seas again – they did so successfully since the dawn of time. We want navy patrol vessels capable or defending our waters and our fishing vessels.
What is Boris talking about a ‘transition period’ for? I’m very confused and upset!
August 1, 2019
We have been waiting for three years. We don’t need any more time to ‘transition’.
August 1, 2019
The way it’s going you’re not going to get’transition’ you’re going to get’crash’
August 1, 2019
Franz, What “crash” is that? You do realise that all our exports to the EU amount to just over 12% of UK GDP? Important, yes, but nothing like as important as the other 88%. You Remains made all sorts of doom predictions about a crash simply from voting Leave. It didn’t happen. I am willing to bet that a couple of years after we actually leave people will wonder what the fuss was all about.
August 1, 2019
FranzB
Hopefully !
August 1, 2019
whose crash? I forsee some pretty dire consequences ‘over there’ when the EU officials put on a brave face at Oct 30th and clap each other saying ‘we stuck to our principles, no discussions’. And lots and lots of their businesses meltdown, people go hungry, flowers, veg, meat rot at the docks. Car plants go on short-time working. Fruit is not picked, grapes rot on the vines…..never mind.
August 1, 2019
Lynn Atkinson
Me too….MOST confused and upset. I really can’t face another three years of MSM and political play acting. But then…remember that photo taken on the steps of that exclusive student dining club? It oozed a kind of breath-taking arrogance from the pre appointed rulers that did not bode well for this country.
So maybe Boris has no more intention of getting us out than May did?
Let’s hope that the BP isn’t fake opposition!
It would be lovely to have proper fishmongers again!!
Unfortunately I think that our future is going to be a bit more poverty stricken than that…a few battered tins of sardines in a boarded-up supermarket maybe?
August 1, 2019
What is confusing and upsetting – besides the implication that he intends us to remain shackled – is that BJ, for all his attempts at Churchillian rhetoric, is uncaring enough of the little people’s attentiveness and vigilance, that he will make a seemingly casual statement like this.
We know, and he knows, that every public word needs to be weighed, so I don’t believe it was just a slip on his part. And he has since said nothing to contradict it – yet he MUST be aware of the consternation it has caused, and that it has negated all his ”leaving on 31st October” statements thus far.
It’ll be ”The Lost Leader” all over again.
August 1, 2019
he has already capitulated
August 1, 2019
Although at face value Boris’ proposal of 2 years as an EU Colony is an outrage…
I believe that Farage is right that no clean Brexit will mean Conservative Party annihilation. And Boris is a bright chap. Thus a sortie to gain the moral high ground springs to mind – but 60 Spartans stand at Thermopylae just in case.
August 1, 2019
Lynn Atkinson
Given the fact that British fishing vessels have been attacked by the French on many occasions, perhaps the answer is to arm ours, or at least give authority to British crews to defend themselves by any means.
August 1, 2019
steve
I hope they will be more successful than we were against the Icelanders in the 1950/60/70s. We fought and lost 3 ‘cod wars’ against them.
The Third Cod War concluded in 1976, with a highly favourable agreement for Iceland; the United Kingdom conceded to a 200-nautical-mile Icelandic exclusive fishery zone after threats that Iceland would withdraw from NATO
As a result, British fishing communities lost access to rich areas and were devastated, with thousands of jobs lost.
And nothing to do with the wicked EU.
August 2, 2019
And nothing to do with the wicked EU.
Exactly. Weak Government at the time. We have numerous examples of the same since then.
Not going through with leaving EU would be possibly the worst.
August 2, 2019
Margaret Howard
“As a result, British fishing communities lost access to rich areas and were devastated, with thousands of jobs lost….And nothing to do with the wicked EU.”
Might I suggest it was everything to do with the then EEC. Perhaps if British waters were not being plundered by Europeans we wouldn’t have been pushed out of what is rightfully ours, and, very shamefully moving north to plunder someone else’s instead.
August 1, 2019
All pretty pointless considering this new PM is considering a two year delay to our exit which in effect equals not leaving at all. A delay can be translated as remain
I suspect Tory Eurosceptics are as exhausted with these silly games as everyone else
August 1, 2019
Sir John’s posts of the past few days could be interpreted as complacency. Of course, it is vital that in the event that Brexit is delivered that it is then made a success of. If not, the possibility (probability?) that the UK would elect to rejoin the EU is live. But delivering Brexit is far from inevitable, and still there appears to be no coherent plan to achieve it.
In my view, given that I have no faith in the Conservative party, there are just two ways that Brexit can be delivered; either the EU loses patience and refuses to negotiate any further with the UK – against the wishes of this government – or the Brexit party is elected to government and delivers Brexit. There are other conceivable ways, that are within the realms of possibility, by which Brexit can happen, but they don’t seem at all likely.
August 1, 2019
Simeon – not complacency.
The Brexit Party are currently looking for policies. I expect the Tories and other main parties are too, as a General Election nears.
This seems a good opportunity to get your ideas, and what concerns you most, out there for public debate.
I, for one, welcome this opportunity.
August 1, 2019
I think you missed the point of my post. But anyway, I don’t doubt that parties are looking for policies. I would very much doubt that the government was looking for policies in a place like this. The Brexit party might well benefit from our kind host’s energy. It would be better in my opinion if they did so directly – in other words if he was a member. Not being an expert on fishing policy, I have nothing to add beyond advocating that we make policy in the national interest.
Meanwhile, as a Conservative MP, our host is associated with the government and their disturbing rhetoric. I would be interested to hear our host’s thoughts on, for example, the Treasury minister’s expressed HOPE that we leave at the end of October. A slip of the tongue, it seems to me, borne out of discussions in government around getting a deal with the EU. He then corrected himself, saying the government WANTED to leave by the end of October. Perhaps realising (after an angry call from a spin doctor?) that this wasn’t right either, he finally said that “the government is crystal clear, we ate leaving at the end of October, no ifs, no buts”.
Perhaps the Conservative party’s biggest problem is that people have great difficulty believing what the government says. If, as seems inevitable, all the people have to go on is promises of delivering Brexit, because the government is unable to deliver Brexit through the current Parliament, then you can see the difficulty.
August 1, 2019
Funny how the EU seem reluctant to let us go. Could it be anything to do with the money they grab from us?
August 1, 2019
We are the only thing keeping the EU afloat
August 1, 2019
There are many reasons why the EU would be keen to keep us in, but there are also reasons why they might want to move on without us. Different countries have different views on this.
August 1, 2019
and the massive trade. What happens when they ‘stop’ us buying?
They probably didn’t explain to the people what that means. ‘The Brits will come pleading to us’ Remember that?
August 1, 2019
“Yes”, although we are more than disliked :
– We are very large contributors to the EU budget.
– We provide a market for which they have a trade surplus of £100bn/YEAR.
– We are being lined up to save Eurozone banks and pay for the decarbonisation of the EU in addition to our own 1tn bill.
August 1, 2019
Simeon
Fret not !
Brexit WILL happen, maybe with this government, maybe not.
But what you can be sure of is that should Boris be stupid enough to cede a damn thing to the EU…….him and his party are done. TBP will see to it.
So either Boris delivers what we demand, or Nigel surely will.
Win – win.
August 1, 2019
Indeed but parliament and the Lords is stuffed with dire fake Conservatives like the Baroness Altmann a BBC favourite needless to say last night on The Papers.
Good, but rather depressing, article by Rod Liddle in the Spectator today, on that other dire BBC favourite Alastair Campbell with his open letter to Corbyn. Are we really going to have to suffer a Corbyn Government thanks to the Grieves, Clarke x 2, Hammond, Gauke, Hunt, Rudd, Morgan and the Altman types? Why do these people want the UK to be ruled by the anti-democratic and failing EU? Paying a fortune for this too?
August 1, 2019
How do you work that out? After the 1975 referendum it took EIGHT years to align with the EEC.
Did anyone accuse you of refusing to honour the result – or are Europhobes just a little fragile?
August 1, 2019
The 1975 referendum was honoured for over 40 years. Perhaps you should show the same commitment to the UK for once instead of trying to sell us out all the time. Your kids will get a nice EU army uniform when they are old enough if we fail now.
August 1, 2019
Well if we succeed we shall have to ingratiate ourselves even more to the US and follow them into yet more illegal wars like Iraq etc.
August 2, 2019
Margaret Howard, Total rubbish – neither Wilson nor Heath followed the USA into the war in Vietnam despite the UK not being in the EU (EEC) at the time.
August 1, 2019
At least the Tories got to see what *hard* talk did to their poll ratings. (They shot up.)
August 1, 2019
I wrote this previously, which seems of relevance:
Posted July 26, 2019 at 9:51 am
Dave, we should not have arrangements that allow foreign vessels to fish in our waters – full stop.
All foreign fishing in our waters must stop.
Too, we need to restore our fishing grounds by having a 30% ‘No-take’ area + a further 10% buffer zone with some protection (Note: the recent ‘special protection’ for 30% of our waters is a start to fulfil the 2004 Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution report – but the protection offered is often just a paper tiger. Strict ‘No-take’ is what is needed.).
We also need to ban fishing methods that damage the sea-bed – scallop-dredging being one of these, and again, where most of the product goes to the EU.
(recommended read: Feral by George Monbiot. Chapter 13 -Rewilding the Sea. He notes Sarah Lester 2009 ‘ Biological effects within no-take marine reserves: a global synthesis’: On average, in 124 marine reserves studied around the world, some of which have only been in existence for only a few years, the total weight of animals and plants has quadrupled since they were established. The size of the animals inhabiting them has also increased, and so has their diversity. In most cases the shift is visible within two to five years.’ He also notes that UK fish stocks have reduced dramatically over the centuries, and that just from 1889-2010 our fish stocks have reduced by 94% – Ruth Thomas ‘The effects of 118 years of industrial fishing on UK bottom trawl fisheries).
August 1, 2019
James Bertram, Of course the EU’s CFP was an ecological disaster as well as an economic disaster. But the answer is not “re-wilding”, as supported by wealthy middle-class socialists with nothing better to do, but sane conservation. Given the absurd stuff written by George Monbiot that I have seen, I wouldn’t touch his meanderings with a fishing rod.
August 1, 2019
Appoint a minister specific to the fishing industry. Bring together area consultation groups involving marine biologists, the on shore industry, and the fishermen themselves. There are many different types of fishing industry so there will be many different groups. Evolve a ten year plan for each and keep it flexible.
Boost fisheries protection considerably, those who can no longer fish our waters are not going to all sit back and let it happen. There must be some reciprocal rights, especially around the Channel Islands so respect them.
Make cheap money available to fishermen who need to invest in capital equipment. Work on the basis that it is a UK project, not a devolved one. Devolving it will only create further problems because devolution has become a source of division rather than solution.
As you say, lets turn an import industry in many aspects of fishing into an export industry. There is no point in expanding an industry for a nation that by and large does not eat fish or only in a very limited way. If the EU decides to shut their market door then I would point out that Japan is a voracious consumer of all things marine and they are only ten hours flying time away.
August 1, 2019
Why am I hearing that the PM is equivocating over the leaving date?
Helena, it’s not dangerous rubbish at all! We simply delay access by foreign boats to our waters and help our fishing communities expand. Coupled with a ban on pulse fishing and a heavy restriction on trawling, this will allow rapid recovery of our fish stocks.
Please stop your alarmist statements and try to take the long view.
Have a nice day.
August 1, 2019
The problems faced by our fishing industry started before we even joined the EEC, put simply we over fished our own waters even then, hence why our deep sea fleets when looking further out into the Atlantic for example, with the first ‘Cod War’ back in the late 1950s,
Funny how so many on the right believe our fishing industry needs protecting come-what-may but other -supposedly- uneconomic industries should be allowed to wither and die – but then many coastal communities tend to vote Conservative but most coal mining, steel or heavy manufacturing areas tended to vote Labour.
It also makes me laugh when people talk about “our fish”, as if the fish know not to swim beyond our 12 mile limit! Yes I know we can claim 200 miles but in most of our waters we can not claim anything like that.
Pardon the pun, but post Brexit there will be bigger fish to fry if Brexit is going to be a success. Almost a week in to this series of articles on post Brexit opportunities yet nothing on rebuilding our heavy manufacturing base, nothing about using British made steel, securing enough domestic energy etc.
This series is not about what is best for the UK economy but what will secure Tory votes against the threat of further UKIP/TBP insurgence into traditional Tory voting areas!
August 1, 2019
Jerry, I am not “on the right” – because I think a left-right division has lost all meaning. And I have previously said that if industries fall on hard times, provided there is a genuine and time limited way out, then government subsidies are fine by me. Certainly our fishing industry qualifies in that respect.
You are also wrong to suspect JR’s sincerity. One aspect of re-gaining control over what are currently EU competences, is to rethink our aims and policies. This has not been done because both Remains and Leaves have concentrated on re-running the EU Referendum debate for 3 years.
I welcome the opportunity to discuss policies we have not had control over for nearly half a century. It just goes to show how total EU control is in many areas.
August 2, 2019
@NickC; “I am not “on the right””
If it quacks, loves water etc etc… How you self-identify is irrelevant to how others see you, if you want others to believe you are not of the (hard) right politically then you need to stop sounding like you are!
I’m no ‘red flag’ Socialist but if I come over as one at times then so be, guilty and proud, if that’s what defending my politics takes…
“You are also wrong to suspect JR’s sincerity. One aspect of re-gaining control over what are currently EU competences, is to rethink our aims and policies.”
The EEC in the 1980s did not make the UK close, withdraw support for or sell-off our iron and steel industry, it did not make us close coal mines or withdraw support from our ship building industry or close RN ship building yards for example, polices that now leave us at the mercy of our competitors. Nor did the EU force the failed privatisation of the railways upon us in the 1990s -even if it did force competition- after all the DB, the SNCF, the SNCB and Renfe -to name just four European railway companies- are all still owned by their respective States and are still the prime passenger and fright operators whilst competitors have track running rights to operate their own services.
“I welcome the opportunity to discuss policies we have not had control over for nearly half a century.”
I too want such debate, but whilst there are many things the EU is responsible for, the disastrous Euro being the most obvious, in the last 47 or so years there are many other important issues & problems within UK that are due to wholly domestic political policy decisions, yet our host is far less keen to debate such issues, or so it appears, especially if the decisions were made on a Tory watch.
Reply. The one sided trade liberalisation allowed fierce Continental competition to undermine UK steel, cars etc
August 4, 2019
@JR reply; The imbalance comes from UK manufacturing etc not being owned by UK based companies – what a surprise that PSA are actively, using Brexit as the excuse, considering using spare capacity in their own French (?) factories to make the new Astra model rather than use the Ellesmere Port plant! Lay-offs and redundancies being easier to manage here in the UK than elsewhere in the EU28 too.
August 1, 2019
Most seafood we eat is imported, and most of what is landed in the UK is exported.
What we need then is a public information exercise so people can be informed how they can switch from imported to local produce.
As to tariffs, the value of UK seafood exports is less than our import of Irish beef on its own, and Ireland is a small country. Best if both sides agree no tariffs after we leave regardless of further deals.
August 1, 2019
Whatever one wishes to believe, we are not a fish and shellfish eating nation. It is partly down to ignorance, partly down to the fact that we do not cook from raw, despite Rick Stein’s best efforts. Comparison of a Tesco fish counter with one of Carrefour’s in Spain says it all in size, variety, and price. The day I see a whole swordfish on a Tesco counter I will know there has been a seed change in the UK. In fairness to Tesco, they would sell what people buy. As it is in the UK it is mostly pre prepared meals in plastic trays. Something I see very little of in Spain where I assume people still cook.
The future for any reborn UK fishing industry is in export and I wish them well.
August 1, 2019
We just came back from Northern Spain where razor clams were on the menu. They were so small that my son thought they were worms. They must be scooping up everything.
August 1, 2019
Agricola, It’s not just a matter of the fish we eat and the way it’s sold. Cooking used to be taught in the family, and was then taught at school too. But it seems no more; and some young people seem to delight in their own ignorance.
There were always families who could not cope, but I observe an increase in the number of infantilised adults with limited life skills. The EU has infantilised our ruling class, and the fish – they say – rots from the head.
August 1, 2019
We don’t cook much as home it is true, but it is still probably the favourite takeaway in the UK. Seems like many people are too bone idle to cook from scratch and hence the obesity epidemic and the for the first time people are living shorter lives than their forebears. We are becoming a nation of waddlers, like the USA. Food abroad is regarded as important and a social event, whereas here it seems it is just fuel to get through to the next ready meal.
August 1, 2019
Another useful article:
http://ffl.org.uk/post-brexit-tac-boom-the-robbery-of-uk-resources/
Of interest is that the value added to the catch landed value is increased about four times to achieve retail (net-to-plate) value.
If restoring our fishing grounds also increases our fish stocks by fourfold (see earlier comment of mine), then retail value is increased sixteen times, making our fisheries worth about £25 billion annually to the UK economy.
August 1, 2019
Nigel Lawson today in the Spectator:- although the main purpose of Brexit is political — i.e. self-government — the economic consequences will be hugely positive, not least through regaining our regulatory autonomy. It should be clear to the meanest intelligence that if there were any economic case for EU membership, the EU (an overtly political project) would not be the world’s economic basket-case, which it is.
Lawson is sound on Climate Alarmism too and all this despite doing PPE at Oxford though I think he was initially admitted for a more sound subject.
August 1, 2019
Even growing up during WWII, as a family we eked out our rations with fish and chips.
Nowadays the cod and haddock I buy is flown into East Midlands Airport from Iceland every day.
Our European neighbours are landing the fish from our waters – theft.
August 1, 2019
I think I’m right in saying that fish was the only food source that wasn’t rationed during and after WWII.
Incidentally, no-one has yet provided scientific evidence to show that pulse fishing is worse than trawling.
August 1, 2019
Vegetables were not rationed. Here, anyway where we had them growing.I guess the fish swam to where wished. No need petrol, they were organically fueled by fish-oil. But we caught fish from the Ouse . Oozing with them.
August 1, 2019
You had fish?
August 1, 2019
Don’t know how that is going to work in the future as we’ll be outside the EU trading with Iceland on WTO rules, i presume
August 1, 2019
Phil, Why should it work any differently? Iceland is in the EU’s EEA, not wholly in the EU. The WTO framework of treaties covers 98% of global trade, including our trade with the EU itself.
August 1, 2019
Shieldsman
Not theft but our fishermen sold them their allocated quotas.
August 1, 2019
You still claim this is correct but it has been repeatedly explained that you are wrong Margaret.
The quotas allocated to our fishermen were so meagre as to be totally uneconomic to be able to continue.
The only response most fishing companies had was to sell these poor quotas and leave the industry.
August 2, 2019
It was the boats that were too small. They couldn’t handle larger quotas. There UK had to subcontract to much larger modern continental vessels.
August 2, 2019
Wrong
The quotas meant the bigger boats undercut the smaller boats.
The EU quotas were set to do that.
Effectively favouring the big factory fishing vessels of non UK boats.
August 1, 2019
Margaret Howard, The EU (then the EEC) stole our fishing rights for itself, waylaying the dopey Heath government, by inventing the EU right over our fishing part way through the negotiations. At the moment the EU acts as the UNCLoS coastal state not us. Out of the EU, our entire 200nm EEZ will be restored to UK control. We will accrue huge benefits both economically and socially from the restoration.
August 1, 2019
Uk doesn’t have a 200nm EEZ zone, you’re talking about EU waters. When we leave we’ll get back the waters we had before we joined in 1973 ie. Twelve miles from a baseline around the UK coast for fishing. Territorial waters at at time ra out to about six miles from the coast. After we leave we can’t hope to confiscate EU waters- don’t think that will work
August 2, 2019
The UK ceded control of it’s EEZ under the CFP. When we leave the EU treaties including the CFP then the EU will no longer have authority and we will take back control
The UK is still an independent signatory of UNCLOS and the Exclusive Economic Zone Order 2013 came into force 31st March 2014 (SI 2013 no. 3161). The SI includes a handy dandy list of coordinates defining the EEZ.
August 1, 2019
So why do modern fishermen have the hump then ?
August 1, 2019
‘Allocated quotas’
And by what right did they take over our fishing grounds and divvy up quotas? – ah yes, their own rules. That was the theft. It was not negotiated as part of any deal, it was simply taken over. Even non coastal states have access to our waters. Totally ridiculous and disadvantageous to the UK. No wonder you support it hating your own country as you do.
August 1, 2019
It would also concentrate Government minds on the need to increase our naval shipbuilding and in the UK.
August 1, 2019
Yes, we should indeed be manufacturing our own armaments.
”… What would have been the fate of Britain in 1940 if production of the Hurricane and the Spitfire had been dependent upon the output of factories in France?”
August 1, 2019
Oh dear, Corporal Jones ready to spring into action again.
August 1, 2019
I would like to see Owen Paterson as Minister for Fisheries:
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/economy/house/82432/owen-paterson-how-we-can-reset-our-fisheries-policy-–-and-empower-local
August 1, 2019
Yes that is a good article by Owen Patterson. Helena, above, should read it.
August 1, 2019
He is a farmer so he would fit rather well as Agricultural AND Fisheries Minister.
August 1, 2019
Indeed and Lord Peter Lilley at Energy as one of the few sound Climate Realists.
August 1, 2019
Absolutely!!
August 1, 2019
I want to repeat what I said in comments to a previous post: why don’t we leave now? We’ll never be ready to the satisfaction of everyone, so why not leave?
If not leave, why not have a dry-run? Perhaps in August, certainly in September.
August 1, 2019
Gyges, Since most (all?) systems are computerised, I expect all Agencies do have “dry-runs” to test their procedures. I know some do already. Moreover many systems and laws are already updated (changed) from time to time, so it is not as revolutionary as Remains seem to think. However, even after testing some things will still go wrong on exit day, and we should expect problems initially.
August 1, 2019
We will be able to stop the illegal and environmentally damaging pulse fishing in our waters carried out by Dutch fishermen.
August 1, 2019
There are a number of Marine Conservation Zones which is a small step towards protection of some fish and some areas of sea bed. It is all very tentative and if they are to be effective they must be far fewer concessions to other interests and more of them more quickly. However the main point I’d make is to create more and bigger No Catch Zones. At some future date when it is deemed that stocks are numerous again only UK owned boats should be granted permission to fish.
On the other means of regaining control of our waters and fish, nothing will be gained if it is not backed up with a strong fishery protection force.
August 1, 2019
That the EU’s surrender (non-) Withdrawal Treaty, where there was no lawful exit without the consent of the EU, is clearly seen as the trap it was by the comments made by Mr. Macron concerning fishing.
Such as :
“The UK will be trapped in a customs union after Brexit unless Downing Street offers European fishermen full access to British waters during the coming trade negotiations.”
“The EU’s demands on fisheries needed swift resolution after 29 March 2019 or the talks on a wider trade deal would fail leaving the UK in the “backstop” customs union envisioned in the withdrawal agreement.”
“It [the backstop] is a lever”
“We will concentrate our efforts in order to obtain access to the British waters before the end of the transition period. And of course all of our fishermen will be protected.”
Fishing is another reason why the Withdrawal Treaty was totally unacceptable.
August 1, 2019
Original Richard, Informative quotes from an erstwhile ally. It’s a pity Remains won’t face the facts of such self-serving vindictiveness.
August 1, 2019
I would rather the fish remained free to increase their numbers than continue with the EU rules that are decimating our seas.
It will take a very long time to re-grow UK based fishing.
Has the Government commissioned any reports about the future of this industry?
Where are the trawlers, the fishermen, the docks and the processing plants coming from?
Our local fishing port used to be the third largest in the country, now it has no trawlers. Houses and shops occupy the quayside. The river, once thriving, silted up, unusable by big boats. Unemployment is high but would these workers want to return to the fishing industry?
Getting the fish back is only the first step. The infrastructure needed to support this industry needs to be put back in place.
Often regaining our fishing is emotive but we need to have a holistic view.
August 1, 2019
Won’t the unfished water for a period be a good thing Christine to replenish stocks. According to lots of bloggers on here we don’t eat the fish in our waters so a re-education program for our school and hospital kitchens and our home cooks will need to begin, plus new export markets secured.
Then I keep reading Margaret saying that the British fishing ground owners have sold their tickets to fish to European fishing trawlers so I wonder how this works and who sold on the chitties to fish in the first place, how did we split them up?
Two opposing views and no-one is clarifying what took place and why it is a problem if the French have licences and pay British fish firms to fish those grounds with the GDP from those catches being grounded where?
Were the UKs waters carved up into franchises and sold on, were they forever sales like a UK freehold home or leased and what length were the leases?
August 1, 2019
Christine, I would suspect the silting to be the result of EU inspired rules, including regarding dredged silt as toxic waste. It will take time to rebuild the trawlers, the docks, the processing plants and train fishermen. The destruction wrought by the EU cannot be rectified overnight.
August 1, 2019
We should treat our fishing waters as the French treat their farmland.
Of interest, I did read from Enoch’s speeches that the matter of our fisheries was never negotiated when we joined the EEC, instead they stalled in discussing it until we joined with predictable results.
Here we can return return the complement, on 1st Nov we take control of all our fishing grounds. Here I would like to see msny areas rested with just our small fishing fleet allowed to recover. In years to come we can then charge large fees if neccessary for foreign boats to enter our waters.
August 1, 2019
One Billion for the DUP and another 2 Billion reported on today added to the 2 Billion already promised equals 5 Billion. Five Billion subtract from 39 Billion equals 34 Billion. Looks like you’re shelling it out already- happy days
August 1, 2019
FranzB,
I would rather £39bn spent in and on the UK rather than simply given to the EU.
Similarly the £20bn gross, £15bn loss of control and £10bn net we give to the EU each and every year to subsidise corporates to move their factories out of the UK, subsidise inefficient French farmers and subsidise the building of infrastructure in other EU countries I would rather be spent on the UK and its citizens.
In return we get such an asymmetric trade deal that we import £100bn/YEAR more than we export to the EU and have to give away our fishing grounds.
If we stay in the EU we can be certain that the EU will ensure that we will be paying not only the £1tn for our decarbonisation but trillions more for the decarbonisation of many other EU countries such as Poland.
August 1, 2019
FranzB, Yes, it will take time and money to repair the immense damage done by the EU. We have no reason to pay the £39bn bribe though.
August 1, 2019
Re-capture our Fishing, Farming and Coal-mining from the EU and we shall be near self sufficiency again. Utilising clean coal for new Power Stations while exploiting our oil and gas fields will provide the accelerant for a prosperous and rewarding future.
What’s not to like for being Free again?
August 1, 2019
In the three months to June, borrowing was 33% higher than the same period in 2018 at 17.9 billion pounds National debt is a terrifying 85% of GDP . Spending promises fall like rain and of the £2 billion additional waste wasted in Brexit nearly half a Billion is going on stock piling drugs. Not a myth after all then.
Fishing about 0.5 % GDP ( that’s not just the catch, the whole industry ) 75% of the 1.4 billion catch is sold to the EU and the English fleet catches its fish in Irish, French and Norwegian, as well as UK, waters. It relies on EU labour . Fishing processing about 2/3 the size cannot survive WTO tariffs
August 1, 2019
You should chat with acorn he reckons no nation with it’s own currency can ever go bust.
All we do is print more money.
So there us no need to get worried NM
August 1, 2019
Newmania, Well, we won’t be wasting c£20bn on the EU every year, so look on the bright side! There are no WTO tariffs – the WTO is a framework of global trading rules, not a dirigiste government setting tariffs like the EU. Tariffs are set by the WTO signatories.
August 1, 2019
you like stats – have some more…..
National debt to GDP
Greece 182%
Italy 134%
Portugal 123%
Belgium 105%
Cyprus 105%
France 100%
UK 85%
unemployment rates
Greece 18%
Spain 13.6%
Italy 9.9%
France 8.6%
Croatia 7%
Finland 6.8%
Portugal 6.6%
Cyprus 6.5%
Latvia 6.4%
Sweden 6.3%
Lithuania 5.8%
Belgium 5.5%
Slovakia 5.4%
Denmark 5.1%
Estonia 5%
Austria 4.7%
Bulgaria 4.5%
Slovenia 4.4%
Ireland 4.4%
Rumania 3.9%
Poland 3.8%
UK 3.7%
Germany 3.1%
Great success story joining the EU?
August 2, 2019
Fred H
Can you give us the debt and unemployment figures you mention before these countries joined the EU?
August 1, 2019
Macron has threatened that they will fish our waters anyway. We may need more gunboats to police the Channel, bit the Straits of Hormuz!
August 1, 2019
The head of the Iranian navy,Admiral Hossein Khanzadi, was in St Petersburg on Sunday for Navy Day.Whilst there he signed an “unprecedented” memorandum of understanding with the Russians about future naval co-operation.They will be starting joint exercises together shortly in the Indian Ocean.”When we talk about the Indian Ocean,perhaps the most significant part of the area is the North Indian Ocean,which flows into the Gulf of Oman,the Strait of Hormuz and also the Persian Gulf.”
Russia has also placed with the UN a collective security proposal document for discussion which places responsibilty in the Gulf on the regional powers-imperialists not allowed.Interesting times!
August 1, 2019
I also see ,from the Asia Times today,that the EU is just about to sign a defence agreement with Vietnam,including strategic co-operation in the South China Seas.
August 1, 2019
They will be hungry after Brexit. Would you deny French food? Why hungry? Their roads may be full from port to city awaiting more regulations. Macron is such silly billy daftydill pickle
August 1, 2019
You’ve go to laugh, now!
August 1, 2019
there used to be so many oily fish in the north sea that bluefin tuna would follow them down from scotland and into the north sea high area off Yorkshire. ‘tunny boats’
August 1, 2019
John, if you were running the Conservative Party sensible decisions like you outline with fish would be taken but instead we appear to have a government food department that says “Turkey twizzlers could be back on school dinner menu because of food shortages after a no deal exit from the European Union, following a new Government warning. New advice from the Government to schools warned that the cooks would have “to adapt menus to allow for product substitution” if Britain leaves without a deal on Oct 31. The guidance – “Advice for schools on how to prepare for Brexit” – noted that “schools have significant flexibilities within the school food standards.”
What on earth is this about, why can’t pollock fish fingers be substituted if we will have an excess of pollock then children get used to the more unusual fish we have around our coast, or other products we’re told we’ll produce in excess such as Shepherds Pie made with sheep mince. If there is problems with Beef why can’t Scotland and Wales diversify with Venison has this already been taking place in the last three years of planning your government has had?
Wouldn’t it be a good opportunity for the children to have cooked for them the seasonal produce we grow, especially the stuff such as the cheese I mentioned the other day our exporters are currently being terrified about by the Canadians not willing to give us a trade deal. Surely your government should be linking up scare stories on exports with shortages and planning with food processors now.
August 1, 2019
It was EU policy that saved the cod. And many of our fishermen chose to sell their fishing quota in a short sighted quick profit gamble. Countries like Spain had the foresight to buy them up and are now reaping the benefit.
As usual according to Brexiteers Europe is to blame. Nothing new here. Meanwhile growth forecast has been down graded and the pound is dropping like a stone and still everybody else is to blame, even the governor of the Bank of England.
August 1, 2019
Your first sentence/claim is very odd when you look at the size of Cod for sale in the EU. Methods of EU fishing hoovers up too many small fish and the really small ones get killed in the process. The way to end this is line fishing for cod, which allows the return of the babies while still alive.
The selling of UK quotas may have been due to the lack of viability of said quotas unless combined with other quotas. There could be a 101 other reasons.
Brexiteers or anyone else who takes a good hard look at what the CFP permits in terms of size, methods of fishing, dead discards wasted, and very partial attitudes to conservation, has every reason to be sceptical of the EU’s performance on sustainable fishing.
I suspect that the Pound is being prepared by the banks to make a profit. Exchange businesses/casinos are there to make a profit which means it has to move up or down. In the short term a low value Pound benefits our exports, await a big squeal from the CBI if the Pound soars in value. The BOE has always been ultra pessemistic where Brexit is concerned, as has the Treasury and the last Chancellor. None of them have Brexit in their DNA. Such history tends to undermine your argument, but it keeps us entertained and on our toes.
August 1, 2019
Growth forecasts are being downgraded everywhere-there’s a global downturn coming.
August 1, 2019
The UK was to blame in that we gave away our fishing industry in order to join the EU decades ago.
August 1, 2019
What an odd hyperbolic phrase that is: ”dropping like a stone”. Have you watched the figures, Ms Howard? Or did you just refer to Facebook as usual? Or whatever Social Media site you use.
August 1, 2019
Margaret Howard, We are subject to the EU’s Common Fisheries Policy, and the EU acquired the rights over our fishing in 1972, so of course the EU is to blame. Meanwhile growth in the EU is dropping like a stone, and still Brexit gets blamed.
August 1, 2019
If Europe is so wonderful please tell us all why Mackerel stocks are now below sustainable levels and are about to collapse ????
August 1, 2019
doom, doom – we’re all doomed!
August 1, 2019
Don’t be bitter about Brexit!
It’s a great opportunity for Britain but is scary for those who only see the beer glass or any other glass half empty. It’s not for the faint-hearted but calls for imagination and resolve to be free of the corrupt and secretive EU.
Remember EU accounts have never been signed off by Independent Auditors ever!
The first EU Accountant appointed was a woman who raised serious wrongdoings to her boss EU Commissioner Neil Kinnock who fired her instead of dealing with the corruption!
Why anyone would defend the undefendable Remaining is sheer lunacy.
August 2, 2019
ukretired
“Remember EU accounts have never been signed off by Independent Auditors ever!”
Not that old chestnut AGAIN!
The Court of Auditors has signed the EU accounts every year since 2007
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36276175
August 1, 2019
I have read that free UK fish is worth some £2bn p.a. to the EU. It really should have been added to our cost of membership. Turning a good chunk of that into exports would be good for our balance of payments. Being able to negotiate with Norway and Iceland for a mutually sustainable basis of harvesting the Northern seas is also a possibility.
I note that not only has the Dail approved an advisory vote recommending the veto of the Mercosur-EU trade deal, but also Macron had said that parts of it are unacceptable to France, and he too is considering a veto. So much for EU trade deals. I suspect that the UK could tweak the deal post Brexit to mutual advantage and have it ratified while the EU are still busy arguing about it. We await the opinion of the Waloon with interest.
August 1, 2019
As I said here a couple of weeks back,when certain parties were waxing lyrical about the Mercosur announcement,it is not a done deal.
August 1, 2019
Meat from South America. Wine from Australia, South Africa and the USA. Cheaper goods from China, Taiwan, Japan and S.Korea.
We could source so much from elsewhere. And cheaper too !
August 1, 2019
Yes Mark except we have not got enough suitable merchant ships under the UK flag to carry this stuff, we have some ships alright but we don’t have near enough in numbers to sustain this type of trade. Also we don’t have the trained seafarers- shame really but that’s the way successive governments have allowed things to run down
August 2, 2019
According to my merchant navy captain friend, freight shipping companies (British or not) are currently under-used and are urgently seeking business.
August 2, 2019
London remains the largest centre for shipping in the world. Chartering, both for bulk or whole vessel use and space on container ships, insurance and legal support all earn considerable invisible incomes. Vessel ownership and flag matter less when you are the market hub.
August 2, 2019
Yeah all very well until hostilities break out like in 1914 and 1939 and Britain with a population of sixty million and no national shipping companies, largely dependent on trade with countries coming from the other side of the world? Don’t tkink we can’t just depend on foreign flags.
August 1, 2019
Of course ‘I wandered lonely as a cloud’ ,or, I wondered lowly as a Lord. It depends on how you say it.The new way or the old way. But let’s listen to “BBC Booking Hour”.
August 1, 2019
People hear what they wish to hear don’t they. Mark Carney today and for years has had to repeat in so many diverse forms that, the BoE has since 23rd June 2016 made preparations for “Worst Scenario”.
Years since we hear ongoing second-hand deaf-daft-dumb Remainer food for their ears only.
Even now it is not too late for Remainers to accept British democracy. There are other forms of democracy but they don’t accept those either. They are married to Dictatorship and wish us to join them in bed. How perverse.
August 1, 2019
As a government official in the 1980’s re Animal Health & Welfare and Meat Hygiene (I was at the sharp end, not the policy end) I know how the Single Market works. The Commission sent out its inspectors to uphold standards of compliance, and we had no choice but to comply if we wanted to trade in the EEC/EU – just as we expected other Member States to comply, if the much vaunted ‘level playing field’ was to be achieved and maintained. It became a megalithic structure of prescriptive Regulation, covering virtually everything, as we all know. Although not always to our liking, much (but not all) of the regulatory structure was sensible and logical.
What I do wonder is how Boris can possibly be expected to deliver any sort of compromise deal with the EU Monolith, short of going it totally alone, as if on a (Trade) War footing. I wonder if the concerns over compromise are an over-reaction, given the realities. Does compliance with a trading partner’s requirements (in this case Single Market rules) necessarily entail legal or political subjugation? I ask this question for others better informed than I to answer, as I think we have to be fair to Boris, in what he’s (hopefully) trying to achieve.
As to Fishing Rights, clearly, such a dramatic change has to be phased in over a reasonable period. That is not compromise – simply the right thing to do by our European neighbours.
Please don’t shoot the messenger – (either me or Boris! 🙂
August 3, 2019
A very good and interesting post.
I am not against selling goods and services to the EU and meeting their requirements no more or less with any other country or block we trade with. Further, I expect the EU to reciprocate when selling into our market.
I believe that we should honour our contracts and if there are EU fishermen that have rights to fish then so be it. If not, then licenses should be offered at a reasonable price. I do not believe that there should be unrestricted access to our waters and control over our market. I do not believe the EU and the rEU27 will act kindly to us, they have never before. India, Canada and many other colonies never had their independence ‘phased in’ and I see no reason why we should.
August 2, 2019
The reason the UK became a net importer of fish is the 200 mile limit imposed by Iceland (not an EU state). This annihilated the deep water fleet in Hull and Grimsby. The smaller (money wise) inshore fleet was always considered more expendable than the deep water fleet but Mr Heath’s government made mess of reading all the tea leaves.